Hunter Lundy, a well-known attorney from one of the leading plaintiff s attorneys in this country, from Lake Charles, Louisiana, is joining us to talk about a case that he and his client, Reverend Frank A. Walker, are bringing against the cell phone industry and the advocacy group, the Cellphone Lobby Group, in the D.C. Superior Court. They argue that cell phone radiation from cell phones should be linked to cancerous brain tumors, and that the industry should pay damages for the damage caused by the radiation they emit. In this episode, we talk about how the case came to be and the challenges facing the defendants in this case, and how they are fighting to get their case heard in court. We also talk about the challenges they are facing, and what they are doing to speed up the process of the case and get the case heard. We also hear from Dr. Chris Fortier, a world-renowned radiation and geneticist, who has been called in to testify in the case. Thanks to Dr. Fortier for his expert testimony, and for being willing to travel to the United States to join us on the case, we have a firm date for the case to be heard in the Court of Appeal. Thank you Dr.Fortier for coming on the show and for his courage in standing up for our client, Frank and his courage and perseverance in fighting for justice for his family and for standing up to the fight for his son, Reverend A.A. Walker. Thank you, Mr. Walker! and thank you, Reverend Aaron Walker, for your courageously fighting for his life and dignity and dignity, and fighting for the right to have a fair and fair hearing in court to have his voice heard in this important case. We appreciate you, and we are so much respect and respect, and respect for your dignity and respect and dignity. You are so brave, and your courage and respect. and we appreciate you for your time and your commitment to fight for justice and your time, and so much more. - Thank you for being a voice for our cause. His words and your support, you are so beautiful, and you are a wonderful human being, thank you for listening to our work, and supporting us in this podcast, and support us in the process, we are grateful for your words, we appreciate it, we will see you, we love you back, we'll see you back next week, we hear you.
00:00:01.000My uncle, Senator Edward Kennedy, died of a glioblastoma tumor.
00:00:05.000Johnny Cochran, who I also knew well, also died of a so-called cell phone tumor, the same kind.
00:00:12.000Today, there is an explosion of these kind of tumors in people all over the country, and plaintiffs have sued the cell phone industry and the Cell Phone Lobbying Association.
00:00:25.000We're hiding the associations between cell phone radiation and the growth of these tumors.
00:00:32.000The industry has adopted the tactics of the tobacco industry and delayed, delayed, delayed.
00:00:40.000Many of these cases have been sitting in court for 20 years.
00:00:43.000My guest today, Hunter Lundy, who is a well-known attorney from one of the leading plaintiff's attorneys in this country, From Lake Charles, Louisiana, is joining us to talk about a case that he and I are bringing on cell phone tumors.
00:01:02.000We are representing specifically Reverend Frank Aaron Walker, who died of a cell phone tumor at age 49 in December of 2020.
00:01:16.000Hunter for not getting bogged down in the court, which is what has happened to every one of these other cell phone cases.
00:01:24.000Well, the suits were filed in the D.C. Superior Court years ago, and many other cases were joined.
00:01:32.000In 2013, we had a Fry hearing with a number of experts.
00:01:37.000Fry means Which was the standard at the time to challenge the testimony of an expert and the court wanted to determine whether or not there was an association at that hearing between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
00:01:52.000So we went forward in 2013 with our proof with a number of experts and the cell phone manufacturers and the carriers all defended it with their experts.
00:02:07.000And after weeks of hearing, we had what we called a favorable ruling from the judge at that time in D.C., allowing five of our experts to testify, which means that had he let the case go forward at that time, and an individual's case been chosen to be proved for the damages caused by the cell phone radiation, those witnesses would be permitted to testify in that individual case.
00:02:37.000Well, the judge certified the case for appeal to the D.C. Court of Appeals.
00:02:43.000And the Court of Appeals, we argued that case sometime later in the end of 2014-2015.
00:02:52.000And the Court of Appeals ruled that they wanted to change the standard.
00:02:57.000And so the standard went from Fry to what's called Daubert.
00:03:02.000The French in Louisiana like to say Daubert.
00:03:05.000But D-A-U-B-E-R-T, that was a national case.
00:03:09.000It was a pharmaceutical case where the Supreme Court, Court of Appeals first in the Supreme Court, created a standard to test the reliability of an expert's opinion.
00:03:19.000It was a little different than the Fry.
00:03:21.000So D.C. courts decided we're going to switch to Daubert after 100-something years following Fry.
00:03:32.000And by the time we went back to the trial court level, there was a new judge.
00:03:36.000And so the court said, well, we're going to allow you to rewrite the opinions, have your experts present their opinions at Daubert, and the defendants can challenge them one more time.
00:03:48.000And then since that time, we've been through three district court judges, superior district court judges, and arguments have been made in what evidence can be put on and what cannot be put on.
00:04:07.000Finally, now we have a firm date that we will believe that we will go forward on September the 12th of this year to prove our experts passed the Daubert standard.
00:04:20.000In the interim, another scientist came out with an opinion that is extremely compelling That says there clearly is a relationship between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
00:04:34.000And it's more than just what the IARC panel said in 2011.
00:05:24.000We've got one who is, his first language is Russian, his second language is Swedish, his third language is English.
00:05:32.000But he is a world-renowned geneticist, radiation physicist, and he will testify.
00:05:38.000It's easier for people to understand than Hunter Lundy, the lawyer in this case.
00:05:44.000So we have difficulty, we have language barriers, and we can't do these hearings by Zoom.
00:05:52.000You know and I know that the right to confront a witness or put a witness on, the credibility of that witness is as important as you and I looking at each other right now, really better in the same room as opposed to doing it over television or Zoom or closed circuit.
00:07:59.000The lawsuit alleges we're representing Frank Aaron Walker, who was a pastor, a teacher, a musician from Louisiana.
00:08:09.000He used his cell phone for 25 years, and he was diagnosed with a glioblastoma brain cancer in January 2019.
00:08:18.000Reverend Walker died on December 31, 2020, at the age of 49, after a two-year battle with this cancer.
00:08:26.000Very, very similar story to my uncle, Ted Kennedy.
00:08:30.000Our lawsuit, the defendants in the lawsuit are Motorola, AT&T Mobility, ZDE, E Corporation, Cricket Communications, and the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association, which is one of the worst villains in this lawsuit.
00:08:52.000That is the telecommunications industry's lobbying arm.
00:08:56.000The lawsuit alleges that the telecom industry downplayed, understated, and did not state the health hazards and risks associated with cell phones, which they knew about.
00:09:08.000It also accuses the defendants of fraud, unfair trade practices, design defects, inadequate warning, and misrepresentation, among other things.
00:09:21.000Now, I started having an interest in this issue back, I think, around 2015, and I was doing the TV show on Air America with Mike Papantonio.
00:09:34.000And I had a guest repeatedly named George Carlow, Dr.
00:09:40.000George Carlow was hired by an official, was the CEO of the lobbying association, Tom Wheeler.
00:09:50.000And George Carlow was kind of a, I would describe him as Kind of a professional, almost an expert witness for industry.
00:09:59.000We used to call people like that biostitutes.
00:10:02.000They're people who the industry knows, they're reliable, and they're going to produce a report that exonerates the industry from any association with injuries.
00:10:14.000They hired George Carlos to do this, and he was so horrified.
00:10:19.000The scientific literature, the injuries that were being caused by cell phones that were undeniable, that he double-crossed the industry and he gave back the $25 million and he gave a press conference saying this is causing cancer.
00:10:39.000And he destroyed his career in the process.
00:10:41.000He ended up writing a very, very good book about it.
00:10:45.000And I had him two or three times on to talk about it, but it was shocking what he found out.
00:10:50.000The overwhelming mountain of literature that shows, that proves beyond any doubt that cell phones are causing these tumors in people's brains, along with DNA damage, mutations, all kinds of other problems.
00:11:06.000Penetration of the blood-brain barrier.
00:11:08.000Tell us who Tom Wheeler is, because he is a major figure in this saga, and he is one of the major villains.
00:11:18.000Well, Tom, it's like you said, Tom Wheeler at the time, in the early years, was the CEO or Executive Director of the lobbying group that was lobbying for the wireless community, and he Wanted to disprove any theory that cell phone radiation could cause these brain tumors.
00:11:40.000And just to interrupt you for a second, Hunter, he later, he was rewarded for his duplicity, his venal craven actions against Carlos and others by being appointed the head of the Federal Communications Commission.
00:11:57.000President Obama appointed Wheeler head of the FCC. So he left the wireless lobbying firm where he, and I'm going to follow up what you said about George Carlow, because they hired an entity called WTR, the Wireless Technology Research Group, and they wanted to disprove that there was any connection.
00:12:20.000And so the wireless technology group took about $3 million or so of that $25 million grant, and they did studies And those studies came back showing just the opposite of what Tom Wheeler wanted to prove.
00:12:35.000And so, as you know, through history of battling with pharma and tobacco and everybody else, when they don't like the message, they try to kill the messenger.
00:12:45.000And so that's what they tried to do to Dr.
00:13:00.000Henry Lye, one of the most well-respected scientists in the world, out of the state of Washington, who was doing studies and they came back and they showed that there was a break in the DNA. They showed that this radiation at these levels, and they call them non-radiation levels, I'm trying to think of the term that's used.
00:13:20.000For non-heating, non-thermal is the word, non-thermal levels.
00:13:25.000Of course, in reality, all radiation produces some heat, but at these levels, they called them non-thermal, and they tried to make the argument non-thermal radiation will never break the DNA bond, but it's simply not true.
00:14:13.000They hired a PR firm and they said, how do we take this scientist who is so respected, so revered, and destroy not just his study, but destroy his entire reputation?
00:14:27.000And they try to do it with everybody, the whole industry that reports.
00:14:33.000There is causation between cell phone radiation and brain tumors.
00:14:36.000We know there's causation between cell phone radiation and other problems, too.
00:14:41.000We know there's neurological effects that are affecting people now.
00:14:45.000We know that the radiation that's occurring in our environment today, and you know as well as anybody, Bobby, that this 5G technology and their way to get around zoning and Counties and cities and parishes in Louisiana and sticking these towers anywhere.
00:15:07.000So to accomplish a financial goal, and it's ridiculous.
00:15:12.000I know we're getting off a little bit, but I'm just concerned about the whole industry.
00:15:16.000But I'm really concerned about these people that hold that cell phone next to their brain.
00:15:21.000And you know, and you described your Uncle Ted as having that tumor right here.
00:15:27.000Which was probably on the temporal lobe.
00:15:30.000And the temporal lobe is the lobe surrounding the side of the brain of the ear, which gets the most exposure.
00:15:37.000You'll see some frontal lobe and you'll see some parateal lobes, but most of them are temporal lobe tumors.
00:15:44.000And it's their ipsilateral on the side of the brain in which the cell phone is home.
00:15:49.000So when those phones are tested on mannequins early and trying to get them put on the shelves for buyers to buy, They never test them in a manner in which people use them.
00:16:01.000I mean, people don't hold them like this.
00:16:07.000So we've had all these tumors happen because of it.
00:16:12.000And yeah, I know today we have our young people are smart and that they're texting and that they're hopefully wearing their accessories, not Bluetooth, but accessory earpieces.
00:16:27.000I mean, I know you and I and anybody else that we know today, we speak or we try to create, because distance is everything.
00:16:34.000The closer you hold it to your head, the more dangerous, the more higher the exposure, the greater the energy is that's entering your brain.
00:16:44.000It's not the same frequency as a microwave, but it's a little microwave and it's shooting right into your brain.
00:16:51.000It's breaking the brain barrier, as you said, and so it's upsetting the DNA. And of course, years ago when they were trying to damage Dr.
00:16:59.000Lai and others, They wanted to say, well, it doesn't break the DNA. Well, there are studies today that show it does break the DNA. There are studies that show that it affects the RNA, which is the repair mechanism.
00:17:13.000And so your brain is always producing little cancer cells, but we clean them up.
00:17:20.000The brain is created, and the cell structure is such that it's self-cleansing, and the RNA helps for the self-cleansing.
00:17:28.000But if you damage the RNA, you're not self-cleansing.
00:17:31.000So those tumors, those cancer cells can start forming and they can start growing.
00:17:36.000And we know that the radiation has, you know, from the many cases you're involved in, has a genotoxic effect on people.
00:17:44.000And that's the first beginning of the problem.
00:17:48.000So we call them free radicals that are created from the overexposure of this radiation.
00:17:58.000So the science has shown the longer the use, the larger the propensity to get to cancer.
00:18:07.000So back in 2011, they said, you know, if you had 10 years of use, 30 minutes a day, IARC said there's a probability of a twofold increase in getting a glioblastoma.
00:18:20.000There's also a tumor called an acoustic neuroma.
00:18:23.000Now, that's not malignant like the glio, but what it does, it forms on the nerve between the brain and the ear, and it grows, and people don't even know it's in there.
00:18:35.000When people start getting symptoms of losing their hearing or getting headaches, they go and they get checked.
00:18:42.000A CAT scan or brain scan shows they got a tumor.
00:20:37.000We always have that saying, follow the money.
00:20:40.000And going back to this Tom Wheeler thing, that's unconscionable where I come from to see somebody leave the lobby and industry and then become the FCC Chairman.
00:20:51.000That's this world we live in, and you know, it's just not good, and I just pray that we get our day in court, and I pray that the courts find the causation.
00:21:02.000I pray that we get our day in court on the Walker case, because you and I know that is a good case, and that is, if we get our chance to put on our evidence, we'll prevail.
00:21:12.000I just want to mention one of the other scientific heroes in this, another person who has been defamed, marginalized, vilified, whose career was destroyed, Dr.
00:21:34.000And Motorola, which funded this study, pressured him not to publish and threatened to withdraw his funding.
00:21:40.000When Phillips refused to allow Motorola to spin his research, Motorola cut Phillips' funding and threatened to destroy him in the scientific community.
00:21:50.000And as you say, they knew what they were doing.
00:21:54.000They have a whole series of patents going back to the early 1990s.
00:21:59.000In which they were patenting technology for protecting human tissue From the radiation that they knew was emanating from their cell phones and destroying human cells, mutating them and causing tumors.
00:22:15.000The industry, Nokia and these other companies, developed dozens of patents or devices that would protect you from their cell phone radiation.
00:22:25.000And many of these patents were cheap devices that were easy to use, but they would have cost money and they would have had to admit What they were doing, and so they just put the patents on the shelf.
00:22:37.000That's part of the evidence in our case, is we have these little patents that show they knew exactly what was happening.
00:23:20.000They were trying to reposition the antenna because they know when you press send, that's when the radiation is going and that person passes received.
00:23:29.000They're getting the highest exposure at that time.
00:23:32.000And so they wanted to move the antenna.
00:23:34.000And in my memory is that one of the applications said because of the report of glioblastomas.
00:23:41.000And so they knew they had knowledge of what was being reported.
00:23:45.000They were wanting to remove their antennas to make them safer.
00:23:49.000And today, you know, we went through the last five to eight or ten years of cell phones.
00:23:55.000They were selling the accessories with the phones.
00:23:58.000They were encouraging people to use the accessories.
00:24:36.000And I'm not challenging that standard because we know the phones don't meet the standard.
00:24:40.000Assuming the standard was a valid standard, cell phones don't even meet them.
00:24:45.000But they did that and they put that information in the phone packages themselves.
00:24:52.000You know, we used to pick up an Apple phone and then we would dial, follow the instructions until we found the SAR. And it would tell you, hold it an inch away from your body.
00:25:23.000And like I said, the problem is people hold it flush up their head.
00:25:28.000So their attempt to give some kind of instruction, you know, was flawed.
00:25:33.000And they want to give that instruction on the basis of the SAR standard.
00:25:38.000But yet they were telling people, we know there's studies that show men that put the cell phones in their pocket have a reduction of sperm count.
00:25:48.000I mean, there's peer-reviewed published studies that shows it affects them.
00:25:53.000We know today that there's a study that's been done on women Nowadays, they make jogging brassieres, jogging bras with pockets in them.
00:26:04.000So women that were putting their cell phones in their bra every day when they were exercising, jogging, they started showing up with tumors on the pattern of the cell phone.
00:26:15.000So yes, our cases are brain tumors because Pastor Walker died from a brain tumor.
00:26:22.000And these other people that we filed suits for in DC died of brain tumors.
00:27:24.000I've seen the studies you're talking about, and this isn't part of our suit, but one of the things that we know is that the phone is transmitting this dangerous cancer carcinogenic radiation, even when you're not using it to make calls.
00:27:40.000When you use your app, the more apps you have on your phone, the more radiation is being emitted.
00:27:45.000Those apps are communicating with the tower all the time, and when they...
00:27:50.000Looking for that tower, they are emitting that radiation.
00:27:53.000If you put it in your front pocket, if you're a woman and it's near your ovaries or your breasts, you are really, really playing with fire.
00:28:03.000My uncle, when he went in, he discovered he had a seizure and was unconscious for a while.
00:28:10.000Then they diagnosed and they did the CAT scan, the MRI, and found out that he had this glioblastoma.
00:28:16.000And as you know, it kind of looks like a spider web in your brain.
00:29:12.000And if Teddy could do the problem while he was holding that pressure against his brain, the doctor would then cut out that little piece of his cancer-ridden brain.
00:29:24.000And if Teddy couldn't do it or if he couldn't use the speech correctly, then he would leave it alone.
00:29:29.000And by doing that kind of, you know, really, he was completely conscious during the surgery while they were cutting pieces of his brain out.
00:29:37.000And by doing that kind of really torturous experiment he gave, he bought him another two years of life.
00:29:43.000But if he hadn't done that, Teddy would not have survived too much.
00:29:46.000That's how deadly these tumor, these cell phone tumors are.
00:29:51.000There's been a lot of people, especially like your uncle in public office, that, you know, they walked around with these big old box Motorola's for years when they first came out.
00:30:02.000Not only was the cell phone emitting radiation, they were three watt phones.
00:30:07.000Today, the phones are about a quarter of a watt.
00:30:19.000And if you remember the old Motorola phones, box phones, you rode around in your car back in the 80s.
00:30:24.000So I think people were getting high dose.
00:30:27.000I mean, I know that I had to run back and forth from New Orleans for years.
00:30:32.000Fortunately, I had my antenna and my trunk, and so the signet wasn't next to my head, and people, we were speaking, or we were using speakers on the car way back then.
00:30:43.000These small phones that you're holding next to your head daily, and while we're talking, Bobby, I want to make sure any mom who's listening Do not let your child keep their phone next to their pillow or next to their bed.
00:30:58.000Do not let them use it as a wake-up alarm underneath their bed.
00:31:03.000Do not let them keep their iPads because they emit radiation too.
00:31:08.000All these devices emit radiation and they're not healthy.
00:31:13.000Pregnant moms do not keep iPads on your lap or computers or cell phones or whatever.
00:31:24.000The Russians, as you know, there are literally tens of thousands of articles that show that it causes cancer, that it has all these other neurological effects, that it has tissue effects, etc.
00:31:39.000Most of those of the best studies, the early ones, came from Russia, from the Soviet Union, because they were early innovators with microwave radiation.
00:31:50.000We're looking at it as a weapon, communication, and for a lot of other reasons, but they did a lot of really good science on it.
00:31:58.000And today, the standards in Russia Radiation exposure from cell phones are one one-thousandth of what we have in this country.
00:32:08.000And in schools, in elementary schools, many of them ban the use of cell phones by kids because they know how dangerous it is for children.
00:32:17.000And we just allow our kids and encourage them to play these games all day on their cell phone.
00:32:24.000And, you know, they're just radiating themselves.
00:32:27.000And the Israelis and the Europeans are way ahead of us.
00:34:35.000We have a couple of lawyers in our office that are available.
00:34:38.000Watching and observing, and we look at the literature to determine whether or not, first of all, if they have a case that has probability of success, then we'll take it.
00:34:48.000We will not take a case that we think does not have probability of success.
00:34:53.000And again, it has to do with exposure, the timing of it, the type of tumor, the location of the tumor, all of those play in to the decision-making.
00:35:03.000And then there's a three-year statute, I think, in D.C. And the reason why D.C. is a catch-all location is because the lobbying firms were located there.
00:35:23.000Again, we're waiting on that opportunity because if God wills, you know, we get to do our discovery.
00:35:30.000We will get a trial date within a year in the Western District of Louisiana.
00:35:34.000You mentioned the company, the Chinese company, a while ago when you were looking at the defendants, that we're waiting on service and we're getting close when we get that service.
00:35:44.000Then the court has had to grant extensions I mean, the court's ready to act on our case.
00:35:49.000We're just waiting on that service because we don't want to leave one piece of the puzzle out.
00:35:57.000The manufacturer of the phone for Reverend Walker's last three years of use needs to be a party.
00:36:03.000Okay, so I'm one of the attorneys on this case.
00:36:06.000Hunter Lundy, who we're talking to right now, is the lead attorney on this case.
00:36:12.000His firm, Lake Charles, Louisiana, is called Lundy Lundy Soilu and South.
00:36:18.000Soilu is spelled S-O-I-L-E-A-U. But all you have to remember is Lundy Lundy, L-U-N-D-Y. Go to his website and...
00:36:28.000If you think you have an issue, if you think you have a statute of limitations problem, once we win this lawsuit, we will then be inviting everybody in.
00:36:38.000But until then, we need to see what happens in the D.C. court.