Dr. Eileen Natuzzi is a retired trauma surgeon with a Master s in Public Health and for the past year, she s worked for the San Diego County Department of Public Health on case identification and outbreak investigation, and she s involved in global health work as well in the South Pacific, particularly in the Solomon Islands. She s been a physician for over 20 years and has worked for government health agencies for the last year, including the past six years in San Diego, California. She is also the wife of former San Diego mayor and former mayor of San Diego Councilman Joe Pesci, who served as the mayor of El Coronel and was a long-time friend of President John F. Kennedy. She has been an advocate for the Solomon Islanders and their fight for human rights and human dignity, and has been involved in the fight against human trafficking, human trafficking and human trafficking. She s also been a member of the National Guard, and served in the U.S. Air Force, the Navy, the Marines, and the Navy SEAL Team Six. She is a mother and grandmother, and a wife of a pediatric neurologist and pediatric infectious disease physician, who has been a long time friend of the people of the Solomon Islanders. In this episode, she shares the story of how her family s relationship with the people on the islands changed the course of her life, and how she was introduced to them, and her experience with them, through her family's service in World War II and her own family s connection to the country's first president, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who was a hero in the war hero, John Kennedy, Jr., and a hero to them. and a man who fought for human dignity and human rights in the face of the fight for their own country. It s a powerful and moving story of resilience and resilience, and it s a must listen for anyone who has ever been affected by trauma, illness, or disease, or is a victim of any kind of trauma, especially in a place that needs it. or is in need of a good dose of good news. Thanks for listening to this episode! Thank you for tuning in! and Happy Listening! Dr. Emily and I hope you enjoy the episode, Dr. Natuzzie! -Eileen and I appreciate you listening to the show. Thank you so much for your support, and I ll see you again next week, next week for the next episode.
00:00:00.000I'm very excited to have on here today a physician who I've relied on a lot over the past year for advice.
00:00:09.000She's somebody who has worked for government health agencies, Dr.
00:00:13.000Eileen Natuzzi, who is a retired acute care trauma surgeon with a Master's in Public Health.
00:00:20.000And for the past year, she's worked for the San Diego County Department of Public Health on COVID contact tracing.
00:00:29.000On case infection and outbreak investigation, and she's involved in global health work as well, particularly in the South Pacific and specifically in the Solomon Islands.
00:01:14.000And so I actually kind of just made a trip there when I was teaching in Fiji, because basically nobody from the family had ever been there.
00:01:23.000And that was sort of my introduction to the people of the Solomon Islands, the healthcare issues with the Solomon Islands.
00:01:29.000And I've had a 16-year relationship with them and traveled there two to three times a year to work.
00:01:39.000My uncle served in the Solomon Islands during World War II. And he was, this is President Kennedy, who was a skipper of a PT vote.
00:01:49.000And his T-boat went down in the Blackett Strait, was cut into by a Japanese destroyer, and then he swam.
00:02:01.000And he swam, he had been on the Harvard swim team, and he swam with all of them six miles to a nearby island.
00:02:09.000And he pulled one of those, the soldier who was, the sailor who was killed, he pulled him with a strap between his teeth, the lanyard, And brought them to the island and saved them.
00:02:22.000And then they actually, they were there for several days.
00:02:26.000He was declared missing in action and then killed in action.
00:02:33.000And then he, the Japanese were looking for them.
00:02:38.000They were watching, hiding in the palm trees, watching the Japanese patrols all day.
00:02:44.000And one day two Solomon Islanders came by in the dugout canoe And we're collecting coconuts from the island.
00:02:51.000And they were resentful of the Japanese presence on their islands.
00:02:59.000And my uncle carved his coordinates on a coconut, which they hid in their canoe.
00:03:08.000And they paddled 21 miles to the British base, naval base, and they gave that to the British commander.
00:03:17.000And it ended up, my uncle gave But then he invited those two Solomon Islanders to his inauguration when he became president.
00:03:27.000He also invited the commander of the Japanese boat that had cut his ship until I got to meet that commander on inauguration day.
00:03:38.000But he invited the two Solomon Islanders, but the British governor of the Solomon Islands, Was embarrassed because none of them, he didn't consider them presentable because they were really fishermen.
00:03:51.000He chose two other Solomon Islanders to stand in for them.
00:03:56.000And my uncle is really furious about that.
00:04:00.000But it's one of the things I think that it really gave my uncle this strong commitment that America should be on the side of colonial people around the world.
00:04:11.000And put him at odds with his own CIA and his own military.
00:04:16.000Years later, and I don't mean to be doing all the talking on this, I won't be talking, but I'll just tell you the end of this story.
00:04:22.000My brother, Max, went to the Solomon Islanders with Captain Ballard, who was the captain who found the Titanic.
00:04:30.000He was on an expedition to actually find PT-109, and they found little parts of it very, very deep in the blackest race.
00:04:39.000While my uncle, Brother was there, and this was probably in the late 80s.
00:04:45.000He ran into one of the Islanders who had rescued my uncle, and he was wearing an orange shirt.
00:04:54.000My brother has a picture of himself with him.
00:04:57.000He was wearing an orange shirt that said, I saved JFK. And when he realized, when he was introduced to my brother, He hugged them.
00:05:08.000I guess they're very, very demonstrative people.
00:05:11.000And he hugged them and just cried and cried and cried, just trembling and crying.
00:05:36.000But they used to, you know, every year, the 7th of August, there's a memorial that's held at the American Monument in Haniara, and they would bring those guys out.
00:05:49.000So they would bring them in from the western province where they lived, and they were sort of the, I don't want to say modern day, but the U.S. equivalent of the Coast Watchers because of what they did for your uncle.
00:06:13.000I think they have an even deeper love for us than they do for the crown, than for the queen.
00:06:18.000When John Kerry visited in 2014, he drew a bigger crowd than the queen did.
00:06:26.000He didn't beat out the, you know, the Duke and Duchess, but...
00:06:30.000So Americans are really well respected in the Solomon Islands, and I think World War II really helped them move towards getting independence from Britain.
00:06:42.000I mean, I just, you know, I've been out to the Western Province.
00:06:46.000I've been to Kennedy Island to, you know, the former Plum Pudding Island.
00:06:50.000It's a great place to go scuba diving and snorkeling.
00:06:54.000It's probably some of the best scuba diving.
00:06:57.000Not only beautiful wreaths, but also great wrecks that you can dive.
00:07:01.000So, you know, for me, it got started going there because of my uncle, who I'd never met, and then it just kind of built into working with the physicians there and the nurses there on building their healthcare capacity, because they're so resource-limited.
00:08:41.000And part of that was a team of contact tracers who literally all they did was talk to people who were exposed to somebody who had COVID. And then there was the case investigation team and I kind of worked on the case investigation team where we would speak with people who tested positive.
00:08:58.000And then there was an outbreak team which I eventually moved into doing and that was more sort of Putting together the pieces of the puzzle and identifying who's got a problem, you know, what businesses need counseling, who needs an on-site inspection, and who doesn't.
00:09:17.000So I kind of moved through the whole gamut.
00:09:22.000I have to honestly say the people I worked with within the county, my co-workers, all wanted to do a really good job.
00:09:30.000The problem with any, I think, any of these government bureaucracies is they're kind of like trying to turn a Panamanian tanker with a paddle.
00:09:48.000And so although we had good protocols, there was another physician and I who would recommend, let's take a different approach here.
00:09:57.000We might get more valuable information if we do this.
00:10:01.000And there was a lot of resistance to that.
00:10:03.000It's as though we took our marching orders from the CDC and nothing else.
00:10:09.000So there was a lot of filtering down that came from CDC into California Department of Public Health and then down into the county departments of public health.
00:10:36.000And there was a lot of concern about people coming across the border from Mexico with COVID and how to handle that.
00:10:44.000And two of our hospitals along the border, close to the border, were pretty heavily inundated with people that probably came across the border to get care.
00:10:55.000And the hospital systems kind of manipulated what happened with, you know, lockdown and opening up because they would say, oh, you know, our census is still too high.
00:11:07.000We can't, if you open up, you're going to overwhelm our census, our ability to take people in.
00:11:12.000And part of that was that certain hospitals were inundated and certain hospitals they didn't want to transfer people to.
00:11:21.000You know, we could have transferred people so that we didn't have what was referred to as the COVID hospitals down south.
00:11:28.000So the county kind of played into that.
00:11:31.000Public health had to interface with our county representatives on sort of the political side of things.
00:11:38.000Like I said, it was a slow to move and slow to change bureaucracy, despite our trying to make good arguments in favor of changes.
00:11:51.000One of the things that we proposed was, instead of reporting cases Our case investigators ask people what symptoms they have, and we could classify people as asymptomatic, mild, moderate, severe disease if we looked at the symptoms and broke them into those categories.
00:12:11.000And that was the thing we lobbied for, was let's start reporting classified symptoms.
00:12:18.000Degrees of cases, as opposed to total number of cases, which sounds scary.
00:12:23.000Let's say 15% were asymptomatic, 25% were mild.
00:12:29.00020% were moderate, and 5% were severe, or whatever the percentage breakdown is.
00:12:36.000That gives you an idea of what your disease is doing, as opposed to just that big huge gap between, you know, we had 2000 cases today, and we had 15 deaths, but what happened in between?
00:12:51.000And that they just didn't want to do that.
00:12:54.000You know, we proposed that and there didn't seem to be any interest in doing it.
00:13:01.000It was really different than any other disease in history because people were not being classified or counted on based on symptomology.
00:13:14.000They were Being counted based on positive PCR tests or antibody tests, and there was a lot of uncertainty in those tests that critics said were being dialed up to these high amplifications that would find a lot more cases.
00:13:30.000And what was your experience with that?
00:13:33.000Yeah, I mean, the reporting that we got came in from numerous labs.
00:14:14.000So these were the rapid non-PCR tests.
00:14:17.000And there was an issue with that, in that if you were symptomatic, if you were sick and you got a positive antigen test, these SOFIA antigen tests, Then we would say that's a positive test because the person has symptoms and they test positive with this particular test that isn't very sensitive, nor is it very specific.
00:14:39.000The real dilemma was when somebody tested positive with that, but they have no symptoms, what do we do with them?
00:14:45.000And they became classified as presumptive.
00:14:50.000So there were all of these, we started getting these layers later on as people chose to, we ignored, by the way, we ignored antibody tests.
00:15:00.000They didn't even come into the data at all.
00:15:03.000It was either PCR or these antigen tests.
00:15:06.000Why is the antibody test, is that unreliable to them?
00:15:12.000There are varying degrees of antibody tests.
00:15:15.000You can get some that will actually quantify what your antibodies are because people now want to know what their response to the vaccine is.
00:15:23.000So I believe it's LabCorp has a quantification antibody test.
00:15:29.000The most reliable ones are probably to get the IgG and the IgM as opposed to an IgG antibody test alone.
00:15:37.000Those tend to be a bit more reliable, but you sort of want to look at your lab and see what your lab's reputation is.
00:15:45.000And I've actually been tested a number of times at LabCorp because I've been participating in a study that requires me to go and get antibody tested periodically.
00:15:55.000And I think that their lab is a good lab, but I don't get it.
00:16:18.000And, you know, it's kind of floated around.
00:16:21.000And I actually looked at the document, this Pfizer, the Pfizer protocol document.
00:16:27.000I can't put anything together scientifically about it.
00:16:31.000So I can't, I can't tell you whether it's true or not.
00:16:36.000Except I actually, I just read a study this morning about There's endotheliitis and spike proteins shedding from the virus, and that is probably what has contributed to these, and passing through the blood-brain barrier, by the way, and that's probably what's contributed to some of the neurologic things that we're seeing with COVID-19.
00:16:59.000The strokes, maybe some of the central venous thrombosis, you know, all of the thrombotic things that we saw when people actually had COVID. By the way, I wrote to the author of that paper.
00:17:41.000And the answer is always, no, we haven't looked at that.
00:17:45.000It's almost as though nobody wants to look and find out, but it's very easy to do.
00:17:51.000Just radio label a bunch of spike proteins, inject them, and see where they go.
00:17:57.000And if they're going all over the place, And they're not being destroyed, then it could, you know, it could be an argument that we have endothelitis happening in people who are post-vaccine.
00:18:11.000So I can't, I don't know about the shedding.
00:18:13.000But, you know, and it is something that I was thinking about this morning.
00:18:17.000I'm like, I don't know how to find that answer.
00:18:24.000If you knew somebody who says, you know, I... Was around people, somebody who, I think my wife got vaccinated and had splitting headaches for two days or my husband got vaccinated and suddenly I got a period where I got a strange period, strange bleeding, spotting, something like that.
00:18:48.000If you, and that person wanted to know, was it from shedding from the vaccine?
00:18:53.000Is there a test that would indicate, for example, if you took an antibody test, Would they suddenly have antibodies?
00:19:01.000Would they develop antibodies from the shed proteins?
00:19:20.000The question would be, which population of antibodies would you have?
00:19:23.000Because if you're around somebody who's shedding, And you've just been exposed to something and you breathe it in, let's say.
00:19:31.000The antibody that's going to be the first one to respond is probably going to be IgA, which is the one that tends to be in our airways.
00:19:37.000But you could do a panel of antibodies and determine whether that person, if that person's positive, then they have been exposed.
00:19:46.000The key is that you want to know what their antibody status is before that.
00:19:51.000And if these are random events, it's difficult to be able to say, well, this person before her husband was vaccinated was negative, but she turned positive after her husband was vaccinated.
00:20:03.000She had no other contact with anyone else.
00:20:32.000IgM is sort of more like an acute phase antibody.
00:20:36.000IgA and IgE are quite specific to a location where you have a response to But an IgM and an IgG panel will tell you whether your body reacted recently to the COVID virus.
00:20:59.000But I would also say IgM and IgG are the ones I know that you can get from LabCorp.
00:21:07.000Okay, let me ask you this, because, you know, there's a big argument in our community that, you know, I really don't know what to make of it, but the issue of asymptomatic transmission.
00:21:49.000Yeah, I think the real issue with asymptomatic transmission was more an issue of how we were diagnosing cases PCR is exquisitely sensitive and it doesn't know the difference between live versus dead virus.
00:22:05.000So you swab the back of somebody's nasopharynx and you find dead virus and they're declared positive.
00:22:11.000So it was partially testing and partially people's recall of symptoms that I think contributed to what we quickly defined as asymptomatic transmission.
00:22:23.000I think that needs to be revisited at some point in the future.
00:22:54.000Let's say I then would reach out to that person and And I would, you know, number one, start the conversation by saying, how are you doing?
00:23:02.000Because I think the most important thing is, make sure the person's okay.
00:23:05.000And then we would go through a series, I would go through a series of questions, well, you know, do you mind sharing what your symptoms are?
00:23:12.000And that person would potentially offer what their symptoms were.
00:23:15.000And then I would Kind of ask additional symptomatology to sort of complete what the symptoms were for that infection.
00:23:29.000Is there anyone high risk in the house with you?
00:23:31.000And I have to honestly say, I sort of tailored how I talk to people because I wanted more a message of education as opposed to interrogation.
00:23:42.000And by the end of the conversation then, we could chat about, you know, did you go shopping?
00:23:49.000And I would ask, do you have any idea where you got this?
00:24:18.000Would kind of call together people who were at a common sight.
00:24:24.000So, you know, let's say people who went to a particular restaurant or store or an event or prison for that matter.
00:24:32.000And that would be declared an outbreak then if it met this mathematical criteria.
00:24:39.000And the outbreak then would be looked at.
00:24:41.000One of the things that I heard again and something that was floating around Our community, that a lot of the super-spreader events initially, you know, that you heard about during the first four or five months or even into the summer, that they were not happening at events that were of rallies or riots,
00:25:03.000you know, whether it was drama or BLM, that they were happening at places where there was food and beverage served.
00:25:18.000And I had a big debate with one of my supervisors about that.
00:25:22.000I said, how can you say that this is because we started reopening when we had thousands of people yelling in the street, protesting and whatnot?
00:25:41.000The arrow that showed where our cases were going up in June and July was where they said the reopening occurred and not protests on the street or not rallies or anything like that.
00:25:56.000So it really was sort of laid on, you know, it was almost as though we kept this argument to stay shut down.
00:26:04.000Well, but the question I was asking was a little different, which is, Some people were suggesting that it was not transmissible by air or particulates, but it was transmissible through the gut.
00:26:19.000In other words, that it was coming from a place where there was beverage or food served.
00:27:36.000We have not been able to find any mass study that shows that, you know, a placebo-controlled study, and most of them are flu, but there's a lot of them, even in medical settings, like hospitals where there's a 1991 study,
00:27:54.000a very big study from England, and there's a Royal Hospital of Surgeon Study in 1982, where the surgeons literally, in half the surgeries, they took off the mask, and the infection rate went down when the mask came off, ironic, paradoxically.
00:28:13.000So we have not been able to find any study, any placebo-controlled study that indicated masks work.
00:28:21.000But I want to tell you that I have a friend who is a very good friend of mine, Who was in a party with, and this is anecdotal, so it doesn't really mean anything, but there were eight people in the party, two of them were not wearing masks, and the two that were not wearing masks both got COVID. And the six that were wearing masks didn't.
00:28:47.000So he was, he came out of that experience saying, I think the masks do work.
00:28:51.000But what's your, what is your observation?
00:28:55.000So my observation, actually David and I have talked about this a lot, is I think it depends upon the mass.
00:29:03.000Quite honestly, if we're going to have a mandate that everybody needs to wear a mask, give people the right mask to wear.
00:29:09.000The ones that the studies have clearly showed filter out viral particles.
00:29:14.000The problem is those masks and 95 masks are pretty miserable to wear.
00:29:20.000So I think, you know, and then this concept of, well, you need to wear two masks.
00:29:26.000I think that's sort of crazy, but the more layers you add, the more potential filtration.
00:29:34.000I don't think that the science is definitive on whether masks work or not.
00:29:41.000And, you know, there's some people that say, oh, well, when you wear a mask, you're not touching your eyes, you're not touching your face.
00:29:46.000So you're potentially not spreading virus, you know, by touching your mucosal areas and whatnot.
00:29:54.000The best studies that I saw were done in healthcare systems using specific types of masks as opposed to the cloth ones that people wear, the homemade ones that people wear on the street.
00:30:26.000Even after I had my bout with COVID, I would go out for my walks and I never wore a mask.
00:30:34.000I'd wear a gaiter in case somebody got really nervous around me or something and I could pull my gaiter up.
00:30:39.000But other than that, it seems my own personal feeling, and I'm not going to fault somebody for wearing their mask outside, is we don't need them outside.
00:30:48.000There's enough air movement outside that you just don't need them.
00:30:56.000There's for people who don't know, I think most of the people who follow me do, is the Vaccine Adversive Reporting System.
00:31:03.000It is the surveillance system that is operated by CDC that is a voluntary system in which doctors are required, supposedly, to support, to report vaccine injuries.
00:31:20.000As you know, there was a 2010 study called Lazarus.
00:31:27.000It was financed by the Agency for Healthcare Research, which is a HHS agency, where they actually went to a HMO, Harvard Pilgrim HMO. It was one of the medium-sized HMOs.
00:31:41.000And they did machine counting analysis, what they call a cluster analysis.
00:31:51.000It's a system where you take the HMO data.
00:31:55.000The HMO has all the vaccine data down to batch and lot number, or every vaccine.
00:32:01.000And then you can look at the insurance claims, which are also in that same database.
00:32:09.000Different people may, so they make claims for food allergies or EpiPens or diabetes medication or rheumatoid arthritis or seizure medication.
00:32:19.000You can then do a cluster analysis and look and see whether these injuries are commonly associated with certain vaccines.
00:32:28.000And really, that's a very, very efficient AI system.
00:32:32.000And so the Agency for Healthcare Research looked at The actual vaccine injuries using that machine counting system, they compared them with the injuries that VAERS was reporting and found that fewer, fewer than 1% of injuries got reported.
00:32:51.000At that time, CDC was saying that one in a million vaccines resulted in an injury, but the Lazarus study found, which was done by Harvard scientists, found that It was actually 2.6%, so it's about 1 in 40 individual vaccinations resulted in an injury.
00:33:15.000So that's just an introduction, but I know that you have a lot of thoughts on that issue.
00:33:21.000Yeah, I think, first of all, that Pilgrim Health that did the study, they're actually one of the vaccine safety data link sites.
00:34:30.000Open it up to independent scientists and we can really answer these questions about vaccine.
00:34:35.000And CDC actually transferred it after.
00:34:38.000In 1999, they did their own study that found an 1135% Increased risk for autism among kids who got mercury vaccines in their first 30 days of life.
00:34:52.000And when they saw that signal, they said, we can't let anybody else see this.
00:34:56.000And they took the whole database, transferred it away from the federal government to a private company called AHIP, A-H-I-P, and it's American Health Insurance Plan to So that it now is privately controlled so that you can't foil it.
00:35:14.000You can't, you know, do a freedom of information.
00:35:16.000They made it insusceptible to the freedom of information.
00:35:46.000It's not even an HMO. And then in the South, in what we call the Stroke Belt, there is no site.
00:35:54.000It's the CDC. So there's no HMO. There's no one...
00:36:00.000In our area of the country, the stroke belt in the southeast, where strokes and cardiovascular disease is the highest, diabetes is the highest, obesity is high, there's no one Collecting data on active surveillance on vaccine injuries in that part of the country.
00:36:21.000So I look at our vaccine safety data link as being geographically, economically, and racially biased.
00:36:30.000It is a failure at doing what we want it to do, and that is to give us a good spectrum of who's hurt and how they're hurt.
00:36:43.000The additional thing that I find so interesting is in 2010, when President Obama was rolling out the Affordable Care Act, everybody had to get an electronic health record.
00:36:56.000Everyone, even doctors' offices had to get electronic health records.
00:37:00.000Everybody had to be collecting information electronically.
00:37:04.000So why is it we can't get real-time information from every hospital In this country, if we have all been told to use electronic health records that would report vaccine injuries.
00:37:20.000There's no reason why we can't do it, except for the interconnectivity.
00:37:26.000One electronic health record doesn't talk to the other one.
00:37:32.000You create information nodes, like the beacon program, which is kind of obsolete now, where health systems allow their information to come in.
00:37:41.000You can't download it, but it can come in and it can be collated, and you can say, Huh, interesting.
00:37:49.000We're seeing more myocarditis now than we've ever seen before.
00:37:53.000I mean, we really are missing the boat in improving our vaccine safety during this massive, massive vaccination during an active pandemic.
00:38:08.000We should be collecting every bit of information we can, and we have all the right ingredients to do it.
00:38:15.000We have all the right ingredients to do it.
00:38:16.000The electronic health record system that Obama put in place should have been utilized for it.
00:38:24.000Well, let me make this suggestion that the reason we're not doing that is deliberate, that they want a system that is designed to fail.
00:38:33.000And this isn't speculative because the Agency for Healthcare Research, when they did that Lazarus study in 2010, they had a pilot system The CDC at that time had planned.
00:38:47.000They said, if it works, we're going to roll it out to all the HMOs.
00:38:50.000And it does exactly what you're saying, which is do real-time machine counting, cluster analysis, artificial intelligence counting.
00:39:00.000And when CDC saw the numbers that came out of that study, at 2.6%, 1 in 40 people were being seriously injured by vaccines.
00:39:13.000CDC shut down the whole program and decided we're going to keep this system that we know doesn't work.
00:39:20.000Everybody is criticized because otherwise we're going to have to make a terrible, terrible admission about the safety profiles and the risk profiles of these vaccines.
00:39:31.000And in fact, the Agency for Healthcare Research, when they did the report on the project, Last lines of it, and anybody can look this up, it's in the Lazarus study, Lazarus 2010, says the CDC officers who were in charge of rolling out the program and were supervising our program were no longer available by phone call.
00:39:57.000We tried to call them, they would not return our call.
00:40:00.000So as soon as they got that data, holy cow, it's not one in a million, it's one in 40.
00:40:09.000So I don't think, you know, listen, Tony Fauci has been planning.
00:40:13.000He says he and Bill Gates have been planning for a pandemic for 20 years and they've done all of this intricate planning.
00:40:21.000They've done the war games and the simulation.
00:40:23.000What is the first thing that you would do if you knew you were going to roll out a quick vaccine?
00:40:29.000You would put in place a surveillance system.
00:40:35.000That actually functions, and that's the one thing they didn't do, because they do not want to know the risk profile of these vaccines, and it's very, very disturbing.
00:40:46.000Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think it's not a nefarious thing that it's a, you know, trying to turn a Panamanian tanker with a paddle.
00:40:57.000But at the same time, it is quite incredulous to me that all the components are there.
00:41:03.000I find it even more shocking that we have spent so much time talking about the groups that have been adversely impacted by COVID infections.
00:41:14.000And they aren't being surveilled at all unless they voluntarily report.
00:41:48.000Knowing that number is so critical for assessing the safety of the individual vaccines and so critical for assessing the vaccine safety, you know, and comparing the risk in different age groups and in different, you know, comorbidity cohorts.
00:42:10.000People who are obese, people who are obese.
00:42:12.000And you need to be able to do that for individuals to make informed choices and saying, look, my chances of dying from this vaccine are one in a thousand, and my chances of dying from COVID are two in a thousand, and therefore I'm going to take the vaccine.
00:42:27.000Those are the kind of assessments people need to be able to make.
00:45:12.000So the central venous sinus thrombosis cases that J&J got smacked with, there are three of them, by the way, from Moderna, and there were some with Pfizer.
00:45:36.000That VITS is just part of what I think is a spectrum.
00:45:40.000I think there's also anti-endothelial cell antibodies.
00:45:45.000And all of these things then add up to a generalized inflammation, possibly of the inner lining of the vascular system, so that people clot.
00:45:57.000And you may not have thrombocytosis, limited lower platelet count initially, because it could be that the antibodies are just damaging your endothelium and you're forming clot.
00:46:08.000So myocarditis is another endothelitis.
00:46:15.000It's another form of inflammation of the lining of our vessels.
00:46:20.000It just happens to be the biggest one in our body.
00:46:22.000And so I think we're looking at a constellation of things that are sort of kind of like a post-vaccine virus.
00:46:34.000You know, we talk about this miss in children.
00:46:37.000I think that there's a post-vaccine kind of a miss that's happening within the vasculature.
00:46:43.000Is it that the spike proteins are going and attaching to the endothelial cells and then the immune responses against those endothelial cells?
00:46:54.000Clonal expansion of certain antibody populations or certain plasma cell populations so that we're going to be potentially heading towards what's called the monoclonal gammopathy of uncertain diagnosis.
00:47:11.000Those things can head into multiple myeloma.
00:47:14.000There's more questions than there are answers.
00:47:18.000We currently have people at the CDC who don't want to answer those questions.
00:47:24.000There are a few people out there doing science that are trying to answer them.
00:47:28.000But I think we need to commit to funding those studies.
00:47:33.000I mean, I just heard, what's his name, Offit, talking about how excited he is that kids 10 through 15 are going to be able to get vaccinated.
00:47:45.000You know, Pfizer does this study with 2,400 kids.
00:47:50.000Well, that's not even enough power to be able to diagnose whether a vaccine is going to cause MIS in kids, multi-system inflammatory syndrome in children, because it's far more rare in Then what the study volume is going to give you.
00:48:10.000So, you know, I think it's insane that we don't know what the safety is in adults, and we're now going to start moving into vaccinating kids.
00:48:39.000And if you're going to say that you're concerned about this multisystem inflammatory syndrome, it occurs in 2.4 out of 100,000 kids.
00:48:50.000Should we really be vaccinating them without knowing whether it's going to have an increase and what the longevity is going to be over time for those kids?
00:49:01.000So I'm very concerned about expanding the vaccination program out to children.
00:49:06.000We don't even know what the impact on the- I saw Biden on TV this week and he kind of acknowledged that kids don't really get sick from COVID. But he said that they need to take it anyway, and parents need to be giving it to them anyway to prevent the spread to adults.
00:50:01.000I mean, I think I could count on one hand how many children I had who tested positive that I had to interview their parents.
00:50:09.000You know, young kids, obviously, that you wouldn't be interviewing them.
00:50:14.000You know, I think that the concept of I'm not defending them, but I think what they're saying is that kids are fomites.
00:50:21.000We've known that kids could bring a cold home and stuff like that from school, but I'm not sure that we can justify vaccinating children for a disease that they don't disproportionately suffer from in order to protect ourselves.
00:50:39.000I think we have to begin to draw a line, and I hope the parents begin to say, Hold on a second here.
00:50:47.000I want the ability to make the decision whether my child is going to get vaccinated or not.
00:50:52.000I mean, you know, the train has left the station on the vaccination program in the United States, and we're sending it out into other countries as well, too.
00:51:01.000And I think that the criteria for vaccinating a full population is different depending upon where you live and what your health system has to offer.
00:51:12.000Ethically, I would have a very hard time talking to a family member of mine and convincing them to have their child vaccinated with an experimental vaccine, a vaccine that's emergency use authorization only, and that has only been tested on 2,400 kids.
00:51:29.000That's not enough power to that study to determine safety.
00:51:33.000Yeah, you know, one of the things that Peter Doshi found, and who's an associate editor of the British Medical Journal, When he did the analysis of the Pfizer Phase 2 trials was that the people who are disproportionately injured are the people who are younger and most robust.
00:51:56.000I have not done that kind of analysis of the numbers, but that's very alarming if we're now going to give it to children and if they may be more vulnerable to a vaccine injury than Because they have no vulnerability to COVID, essentially zero.
00:52:16.000Why would you give somebody an intervention that has a higher risk profile than the disease that you're trying to prevent?
00:52:25.000Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of the fundamental problem I have.
00:52:30.000Look, those of us that are older, our immune systems are slightly weakened, and we're not going to have that same robust response to a vaccine that a younger person would be.
00:52:39.000I can tell you, of the myocarditis cases that I have found, the majority of which are in Moderna and Pfizer, there are some J&J ones.
00:53:20.000Those sort of immune-mediated endothelitis problems, those are happening in young people because they have a robust immune response.
00:53:31.000And when you look at the serious adverse events, because I do a screenshot of them over time.
00:53:37.000I've been tracking them since January.
00:53:40.000There's been a shift towards more serious events in younger people.
00:53:44.000You're absolutely correct in saying that.
00:53:46.000As we vaccinate more young people, initially it was the older population because that was the target, the high-risk group that was being vaccinated.
00:53:56.000Now that we move into the younger groups, we're seeing more and more complications, and we're seeing a filtering of deaths down into the younger group as well, too.
00:54:06.000And I badger the heck out of them periodically if there's, you know, they put up data on pregnancy and said that the vaccine was safe and that the spontaneous abortion rate was not a signal.
00:54:55.000That there were 200-some-odd pregnancies with spontaneous abortions.
00:55:00.000I think there were 64, if I'm remembering correctly off the top of my head, in VAERS. But those numbers were not in the calculations that looked at what the observed spontaneous abortion rate was.
00:55:14.000How many do you recall there being 200?
00:55:46.000In the vaccine population, 96% occurred in the first trimester, which suggests an increase in number of first trimester abortions, potentially.
00:55:58.000I actually wrote a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine Correcting that.
00:56:04.000And they still haven't made a decision whether they're going to publish it or not, probably because they send my letter off to Tom Shimabukura at the CDC, who was the lead author of the paper, and he'll argue about it.
00:56:17.000And probably, you know, whether it'll get published, I don't know.
00:56:21.000I mean, I believe in putting them on notice and saying we need accurate data.
00:56:28.000What about the issue of pathogenic priming?
00:56:32.000You know, of antibody immune enhancement.
00:56:37.000The idea that if you, you know, they didn't have the animal studies, which they did originally in the coronavirus, when the animals produced a very robust antibody response, they thought they hit the jackpot.
00:56:50.000And then when the animals were actually challenged, were exposed to the live virus, they had this systemic inflammation and a lot of them died.
00:57:01.000And the problem is, do you think that's happening or do you think that's something that we may see a year or two from now?
00:57:53.000We need like a biomarker to be able to say, boom, this is the vaccine that did this.
00:58:00.000So I don't see evidence when I look at cases, but I have to honestly say, Bobby, the numbers have gotten so high that it's almost impossible for me to review the VAERS narratives for, you know, the meat of what's going on.
00:58:17.000To be able to get a sense of what the situation is.
00:58:21.000And not all of these various reports obviously include whether the person, one, tested positive for COVID or had previous COVID infections.
01:00:46.000One other little point I want to make is the media has sort of been towing the line on this antagonism between people who vaccinate and people who don't vaccinate.
01:00:58.000People who choose not to vaccinate for whatever reason.
01:01:01.000Waiting to see better data, never going to vaccinate, or just not ready to vaccinate.
01:01:08.000The New York Times had a headline in one of their articles that said, it's going to come to hand-to-hand combat.
01:01:15.000What kind of a dynamic does that set up?
01:01:20.000There was some stupid clothing store was selling a t-shirt that said, vaccinated, and underneath it it says, because I'm not stupid.
01:01:30.000There is a dynamic being set up that is, I think, dangerous.
01:01:35.000On top of everything else that we've gone through, on top of our political chisms and everything else, this dynamic of vaccinate versus not vaccinate.
01:02:04.000I mean, I'm eventually expecting to see a news story about somebody who is...
01:02:09.000Oh, you know, they're already criminalizing it in there.
01:02:12.000You know, you had 12 attorney generals yesterday who were threatening the internet platforms that they've got to stop allowing people to report vaccine injuries.
01:02:54.000And I, you know, basically, sometimes I just throw stupid stuff up there, pretty pictures, whatever, things going on in my garden.
01:03:01.000A lot of times, though, what I would do is I'll really sort of do a deep dive into the data and correct something or clarify something.
01:03:08.000You know, I'm not going to tell people what to do.
01:03:10.000People need to make their own decisions.
01:03:12.000That's what it's all about, is learning about something, demanding safety, looking into whether there's durability and making that decision yourself as to what you want to do.
01:03:24.000Eileen Natuzzi, thank you very, very much for joining us today, and thank you for all you do.