RFK Jr. The Defender - July 15, 2024


EMR, Cell Phones, and Cancer with Dr Paul Heroux


Episode Stats

Length

55 minutes

Words per Minute

131.60535

Word Count

7,337

Sentence Count

431

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Paul Polaro is a scientist with experience in physics and engineering. He has a PhD in Physics and Engineering and the Health Sciences. He started his research career at the Institut des Reunions de Hydro-Quebec in Veronese, Quebec, an internationally reputed electrotechnical laboratory. After rounding out his formation with courses in Biology and Medicine, he became interested in Public Health and was appointed Associate Professor at McGill University s Faculty of Medicine, where he is the current Occupational Health Program Director. He is an expert in Toxicology and Electromagnetic Radiation. He won a lawsuit about cell phone radiation, suing the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission, in 2021. In this episode, he talks about how he won the case, why Wi-Fi radiation is dangerous, and why we should all be worried about it. He also talks about the dangers of radiation from Wi-fi and other wireless devices, and how we can prevent them from getting into our bodies. This is a must listen episode for anyone who is concerned about the impact of electromagnetic radiation on our bodies and our health, or who wants to know if they are safe to use them or if they should be allowed to do so. Listen to this episode to learn more about the science behind the case and why you should be concerned about them. Thank you for listening and share it with your friends, family, colleagues, and the ones you care about them! and don t forget to subscribe to the podcast! and spread the word to your friends about it! . You can get a copy of this podcast wherever you get your favourite podcast on the internet. You won't want to miss it. It's free and it'll help spread it around the world! ...and it'll make us spread it to the word about it everywhere else! It's better than that we can spread it everywhere. - Tom's words are better than it's possible to do that. Thank you, Tom's saying it, right? thank you, and we're listening to it, too, and it's more than that, right here, right there in the rest of it, in the whole world, right across the internet, everywhere, everywhere else, right everywhere, right at the world, everywhere...we'll get it, no matter where we listen to it? -- Tom's podcasting it's everywhere, no more so than that's right, right in the world?


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Everybody's on their cell phone.
00:00:02.000 These are addictive that have to be controlled.
00:00:05.000 Only about 20% of their radiation goes for communication.
00:00:09.000 The rest is diffused into your body, which explains a lot of things.
00:00:14.000 Children, of course, are very vulnerable to these things because their brains are developing.
00:00:20.000 Are there some cell phones that are better than others?
00:00:22.000 The Apple phones are the worst.
00:00:24.000 We need somebody like yourself to put a bit of order in the house, in my opinion.
00:00:30.000 Hey everybody, my guest today, Dr.
00:00:32.000 Paul Herro is probably the top expert in the field of bioelectric physics and radio frequency radiation and the impacts of radio frequency radiation on nature and human beings.
00:00:50.000 Dr.
00:00:51.000 Polaro is a scientist with experience in physics.
00:00:55.000 He has a PhD in physics and engineering and the health sciences.
00:01:01.000 He started his research career at the Institut des Récherches of Hydro-Quebec in Veronese, Quebec, an internationally reputed electrotechnical laboratory, the biggest electric company in Canada.
00:01:18.000 After rounding out his formation with courses in biology and medicine, he became interested in public health and was appointed associate professor at McGill University's Faculty of Medicine, where he is the current occupational health program director.
00:01:34.000 He is, as I said, an expert in toxicology and electromagnetic radiation.
00:01:44.000 And I won a lawsuit About cell phone radiation, suing FCC, the Federal Communications Commission in 2021.
00:01:58.000 And we sued FCC because of the science that they were using to defend their lack of regulation of cell phone, Wi-Fi radiation.
00:02:11.000 The science had overwhelmed it.
00:02:14.000 There was no science behind it.
00:02:16.000 Their assumption was That until that radiation began to raise the temperature of your body or your organs, in other words, you wanted microwaving you and cooking you, that there were no subternal effects.
00:02:33.000 And this is wrong, and there are literally, I was shocked, And Polaro can tell us whether this is hyperbole, but there were over 10,000 studies out there over the years raising concerns about Wi-Fi radiation and showing that indeed there are some thermal impacts that the cells in your body Act as little antennas that are regulating electric
00:03:04.000 currents and energy currents and flow between all the functions of your body.
00:03:10.000 And the way that you think, the way that you feel, the way that your immune system works, the way that you move, it's all regulated by electrical impulses that your cells regulate and that the cell tower near you It disrupts that and does a lot of other bad stuff,
00:03:33.000 but in all the So we won that lawsuit and FCC has, this was during the Trump administration, the head of the FCC at that time was a Verizon lobbyist and they have ever since then blocked anything from happening.
00:03:56.000 So they're required, essentially required, they're implied in this What lawsuit was in the decision by the Federal Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., was that they need to start a new rulemaking.
00:04:11.000 They need to do a real assessment of what Wi-Fi radiation.
00:04:14.000 There are solutions to it, and we're going to talk about those, but that's where we are in the federal case.
00:04:21.000 I wanted to bring Paul, I'm here because he, better than anybody else that I know, can explain what happens to radiofrequency radiation inside the human body.
00:04:36.000 So, Paul, welcome to my podcast.
00:04:39.000 It's a delight to finally meet you in person.
00:04:42.000 Thank you.
00:04:44.000 Tell us, what does...
00:04:47.000 What does Wi-Fi radiation, radio frequency radiation, do when it gets into the human body?
00:04:54.000 Why should we be concerned about this?
00:04:56.000 Well, the 10,000 studies that you mentioned are not there by luck.
00:05:02.000 They are there because there are actually health effects of electromagnetic radiation.
00:05:08.000 The reason why so many governments would believe that there are no effects It can seem to be a mystery, but it's not a mystery to me, because I'm a fairly old man, as you can see, and I was there when all of these, I would say, these strategies were being developed.
00:05:30.000 In other words, industry desperately wanted to have very high standards.
00:05:37.000 And this was done in the days of the microwave ovens, when this was the new wonder application.
00:05:43.000 But industry realized that electromagnetic radiation had tremendous potential for commercial applications.
00:05:52.000 So, you'll have to consult the law to determine whether this was done, I would say, in a In an underhanded way or not.
00:06:05.000 But what they came up with is that this radiation is not dangerous.
00:06:10.000 And they had three great arguments that they could present to the public and to politicians, who, as you know, don't have too much time to deal with things like that.
00:06:20.000 They said, well, you know, this radiation is non-ionizing.
00:06:24.000 Secondly, they said the radiation levels that we emit are too weak.
00:06:29.000 And thirdly, they said there are no mechanisms to explain the action of these fields on the body.
00:06:36.000 Unfortunately, all three of these arguments are completely false from the scientific point of view.
00:06:44.000 And the thing that I came up with relatively recently is that they should have known better, and they did not.
00:06:54.000 And if you look at the science, basically the problem is, can this radiation trigger certain reactions in human bodies that could interfere or make them sick?
00:07:09.000 And so we call this essentially the concept of energy of activation.
00:07:13.000 What does it take to make changes in the human body from radiation?
00:07:19.000 And what they use, in fact, are concepts that date to 1889.
00:07:26.000 It's called the Arrhenius equation.
00:07:28.000 And what this says is that you have to break a certain amount of energy in order to trigger a chemical reaction.
00:07:36.000 The thinking is simple.
00:07:37.000 You have to break something before it can come back together in a different way.
00:07:43.000 So they use this concept to say that it's non-ionizing because indeed the radiation is non-ionizing.
00:07:51.000 So they thought this is a really good thing to present to the public.
00:07:56.000 And then they said the radiation is too weak.
00:07:58.000 In other words, it cannot ionize, so consequently it can't do anything.
00:08:02.000 And then, show us the mechanisms that allow these reactions to occur.
00:08:08.000 Well, there's something very interesting about the human body.
00:08:11.000 The human body has as its first characteristic that it organizes things.
00:08:18.000 And this is a bit hard to digest from the second law of thermodynamics, which is universally accepted in physics.
00:08:28.000 If you organize things, you have in a corresponding way to generate disorganization.
00:08:36.000 This disorganization occurs in all living systems and it's called reactive oxygen species or unstable molecules.
00:08:45.000 Now, once you understand this, that living systems have to generate free radicals, then they become vulnerable to fields that are extremely weak.
00:08:58.000 And so what this means is that the argument of radiation is too weak no longer holds.
00:09:04.000 And then there are no mechanisms.
00:09:06.000 I can describe in detail at least two mechanisms that are able to alter your rate of cancer and that are able to enter your rate of diabetes.
00:09:20.000 So, in other words, industry had no science to stand on, but they fed these stories to politicians and to the public.
00:09:32.000 You know, many years ago, I had a radio show called Ring on Fire.
00:09:38.000 This was back in the, I think, mid-2000s, or early 2000s, but I had a guy on that time I met, and I've met many times since, named Dr.
00:09:50.000 George Carlo.
00:09:51.000 And Dr.
00:09:52.000 George Carlo was what we would call an industry biostitute.
00:09:57.000 He was a guy...
00:09:59.000 Who had good credentials, but he was a mercenary scientist, and he would be hired by industry to reach certain preordained results that the industry wanted to have a scientific study that validated some profit-taking enterprise that they had already determined they wanted to do.
00:10:27.000 And they hired George Carlow to look at cell phone radiation because, as you know, back around 2013, Congress and the GAO were putting tremendous pressure on FCC to start doing real science and regulating cell phone radiation, which they were doing in Russia and other countries.
00:10:48.000 Russia had this tremendous...
00:10:51.000 I'm out of science, early science, in this area.
00:10:54.000 And they are very, very strict in their regulations over there.
00:10:59.000 And Congress was getting worried about it.
00:11:01.000 There were people coming in sick.
00:11:04.000 Americans were complaining about it.
00:11:07.000 And they started pressuring the industry.
00:11:10.000 So the industry, in order to defend itself, hired George Carlow.
00:11:14.000 George Carlin and they wanted him to do a report, clearing it all and saying that it was all as safe as can be.
00:11:21.000 And he was a guy who was capable of doing that stuff, but he started, but he had a conscience.
00:11:29.000 And he started reading the science.
00:11:31.000 And the science was so overwhelming.
00:11:34.000 He was finding studies, rat studies from Europe, that they put a cell phone next to a rat for even a couple of minutes.
00:11:46.000 And the EEGs of that rat would not turn back to normal for days.
00:11:53.000 The same thing with children.
00:11:55.000 And that there was evidence then that it was opening up the permeability of the blood-brain barrier in people's brains.
00:12:02.000 And, you know, he started finding this.
00:12:07.000 They'd given him $26 million to do this study, and he gave the money back, and he said, I can't do it, and then he went public.
00:12:14.000 And he shocked the industry.
00:12:16.000 And, you know, he turned out to be a very brave man, and he's been working, I think, ever since to expose it.
00:12:23.000 But that was my first exposure to how bad this is and how overwhelming the science was on it.
00:12:32.000 Yes, I think your description is very, very accurate.
00:12:39.000 The fact is that when industry was confronted with this problem, you're dealing essentially with the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers.
00:12:48.000 They didn't really have any indigenous expertise.
00:12:52.000 And the people that they acquired naturally seemed pressure to tell the industry what it wanted to hear.
00:13:01.000 So, essentially, what happened is that in this process, in the end, industry avoided the problem and Tried to find arguments so that the public and even their own constituency, I mean, you're talking about 400,000 engineers, that they would all believe that this radiation is an offensive.
00:13:26.000 And if you start to broadcast these ideas, you know, amongst engineers, with 400,000 people, it's very powerful.
00:13:35.000 And they are the ones who hold the expertise on electromagnetism.
00:13:40.000 But of course, their assessment of science was extremely superficial.
00:13:45.000 They didn't want to get into it.
00:13:47.000 They felt it was not their venue.
00:13:50.000 And what Carlo dealt with is all this health evidence coming from epidemiologists and so on.
00:13:57.000 But one thing that I know is that when epidemiologists talk to engineers, it's very difficult to find a common ground.
00:14:05.000 They don't understand each other.
00:14:06.000 And so consequently, even today, we are in a situation in which industry is resting on very, very non-existent science, really.
00:14:17.000 And you want to know how the tests were conducted to determine that this radiation was safe.
00:14:27.000 Well, they were very short-term tests.
00:14:30.000 Essentially, the military wanted to know if we have a pilot in an F-16, and this pilot is obviously subjected to the radiation of his radar, does the radiation impair his function, his ability to understand situations, his ability to follow his ability to understand situations, his ability to follow orders?
00:14:49.000 And so they ran very short-term tests on a series of rats and monkeys.
00:14:56.000 That's 40 to 60 minutes on monkeys like five monkeys, 10 rats, things like that.
00:15:03.000 And the criterion that they used to determine the safety level was, are these animals reducing their ability to feed themselves?
00:15:15.000 Because they would have a pellet that they could press, and that would deliver a morsel of food to them.
00:15:23.000 So they increased the radiation until these animals reduced their intake of food.
00:15:31.000 And so on the basis of these very simplistic tests, the industry ran away and said, this is what we're going to use.
00:15:40.000 You have to ask yourself, can a test that lasts 40 to 60 minutes represent, you know, the span of human life of 70 years or the effect on humans over many generations?
00:15:54.000 So it's rather humiliating to think how all of this was done and was arranged.
00:16:03.000 And so now we also have...
00:16:10.000 Test showing that this is hurting people, that, you know, animals, that wildlife, that even trees are affected by it.
00:16:18.000 Tell us, you know, what is the bad news?
00:16:21.000 I mean, how bad is this?
00:16:25.000 There's people getting, you know, I'm representing a lot of people who have what they call cell phone tumors, who are Of glioblastomas in their brains.
00:16:37.000 And my uncle, Ted Kennedy, died of one of those tumors.
00:16:42.000 And the people who were getting these tumors, my colleague, Johnny Cochran, another attorney, had what he thought he understood to be a cell phone tumor that he died from.
00:16:54.000 And you're seeing people get these tumors right behind the ears that they favor with their cell phones.
00:17:02.000 But so far, we're not seeing the science come out to support it.
00:17:07.000 We're seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence and some science on the cancer issues.
00:17:13.000 But on the other issues, the science is pretty overwhelming, isn't it?
00:17:17.000 Yes.
00:17:18.000 For example, in the case of cancer, Imagine that you have one cell that is mutated in your body.
00:17:27.000 It's very well known that in a normal human body, you have full of mutations that do not develop into cancer.
00:17:37.000 You know, for years and years and years.
00:17:39.000 But imagine that you have an agent like electromagnetic radiation that is applied to this cell.
00:17:44.000 What does the radiation do?
00:17:47.000 It changes the level of metabolism in cells.
00:17:51.000 In other words, when you apply it, the metabolism goes down.
00:17:55.000 And when you release the radiation, the metabolism goes back up.
00:17:59.000 Now, if you culture cells and you You expose them to various levels of radiation, you will find that from one cancer cell of one type, this kind of electromagnetic treatment will increase the diversity of cells that you have.
00:18:18.000 Some will have more chromosomes than the first original cell, some will have fewer, and so on and so forth.
00:18:25.000 By increasing the diversity of cancer cells within the body, you increase the malignancy Of the tumor itself.
00:18:35.000 And you can trigger its appearance.
00:18:38.000 And so there's plenty of evidence that an agent like electromagnetic radiation, which is a modulator of metabolism, can have these effects on cancer specifically.
00:18:50.000 And this evidence has been around for a long, long time, but as you know, industry has fought the evidence and claimed that the science isn't good.
00:18:59.000 Science is always complicated at the best of times, but when you survey the whole thing, some conclusions can be reached, just in the case, the legal case that you mentioned.
00:19:13.000 Another impact was to increase the permeability of the blood-brain barrier.
00:19:19.000 Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:19:21.000 Absolutely.
00:19:23.000 The brain is a special organ in the body.
00:19:26.000 It's responsible for so many things.
00:19:28.000 And by and large...
00:19:30.000 The perfusion of blood into the brain is highly controlled.
00:19:34.000 In certain regions, like the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland, it's rather permeable because you want the brain to get proper messaging from what happens in the body.
00:19:46.000 But overall in the brain, it's hard to get from the blood into neural tissue.
00:19:54.000 Well, plenty of evidence showed that when you are subjected to even non-thermal levels of electromagnetic radiation that are perfectly fine with the FCC, you increase the permeability of the blood-brain barrier.
00:20:11.000 This was documented usually by penetration of albumin, which is a protein that you have in large amounts in your blood.
00:20:20.000 But the problem with albumin is that albumin is a buffer against all the toxicants in your body.
00:20:27.000 Basically, when you have an acute exposure to high concentrations of a toxicant, albumin gobbles up most of it.
00:20:36.000 In order to release it to your tissues progressively, thereby lowering the shock.
00:20:43.000 When you allow albumin to penetrate into your nervous tissue, all of these toxins that are accumulated by albumin have access to your brain as well.
00:20:54.000 So, it's obvious physiologically that this type of permeation of the blood-brain barrier is a fundamental risk to the brain itself.
00:21:06.000 And what happens to the brain when you allow toxics into the brain?
00:21:12.000 Well, I think any toxicology specialist can tell you, you know, the brain is supposed to be relatively immune to these chemicals, and all of a sudden you allow entry into a delicate tissue.
00:21:26.000 This tissue, the brain is very dependent on supplies of ATP. You know that if you stop breathing right now, you will lose consciousness very, very rapidly because your nervous system depends on the high amount of ATP being generated continuously by the supply of oxygen into your brain.
00:21:47.000 So this is a highly delicate tissue.
00:21:50.000 And if you start allowing all sorts of toxicants, and these toxicants can be almost anything, because whatever you were exposed to, that the brain did not allow into neural tissue, whatever your exposure, now can get around neurons that actually are the functioning part of your brain.
00:22:14.000 And will that interfere with...
00:22:17.000 that will cause inflammation or interfere with brain function at some point?
00:22:22.000 These toxicants that are allowed into the brain can do that by themselves.
00:22:27.000 But we also know that the radiation itself is well known to increase reactive oxygen species.
00:22:36.000 You know, in tissues.
00:22:38.000 And these reactive oxygen species are essentially molecules that have been activated to be, I would say, hostile to tissue that is healthy.
00:22:50.000 So, when you suppress metabolism in any cell, it's a little bit like you have a garden hose and you are...
00:22:59.000 You're watering your lawn, and then you take the hose and you bend it so that the water can't come out anymore.
00:23:06.000 Well, behind you, if there are any leaks on your hose, they will quickly spurt some water.
00:23:12.000 You know, the spurt that weren't there before.
00:23:15.000 And so those are the losses.
00:23:17.000 of metabolism and we know exactly where they occur in complex 1 and complex 3 of oxidative phosphorylation so you suppress metabolism you are going to increase reactive oxygen species in tissues this has been repeatedly demonstrated in relation to radiofrequency radiation exposure so these reactive oxygen species by their very nature are hostile when they are in excessive quantities And when
00:23:47.000 they're present in the brain, of course, they can do damage.
00:23:50.000 Now, all of these chronic diseases can be linked to excesses ROS. We're talking about what things like diabetes, things like Alzheimer's, things like Parkinson's, amyotropic lateral cirrhosis, all of these chronic neurological diseases are connected with ROS. And Microwave radiation can produce an increased concentration of these things.
00:24:20.000 You know, the woman...
00:24:26.000 Who originally brought this lawsuit to me, the federal lawsuit, was a woman named Dafna Takover.
00:24:33.000 And you may have met her.
00:24:35.000 She was an officer in the Israeli Defense Force for a long time.
00:24:41.000 And it was a cyber warfare expert.
00:24:44.000 So she was basically in a compartment.
00:24:49.000 That was filled with electronics and getting radiated all the time, and at some point— She developed literally overnight a sensitivity to it.
00:25:02.000 And after that, she had to move to the Catskills.
00:25:06.000 She couldn't be around.
00:25:07.000 It's very, very hard to get away from a radiofrequency radiation nowadays because they're saturating the globe with it.
00:25:17.000 There are cell towers everywhere.
00:25:20.000 It's coming from satellites now.
00:25:23.000 And so she had to move to a remote area of the Catskills.
00:25:28.000 But she can come into rooms in my house and say, this room is heavily radiated.
00:25:34.000 And I had to meet her, and every time that she said that, she was absolutely accurate.
00:25:43.000 I've since then met many, many people who have this kind of sensitivity, including a lot of children, who get very, very sick.
00:25:51.000 Even small exposures to cell phones or to radiation, and it's very much complicated their lives.
00:25:59.000 Can you explain that and talk about that, your own experience with people who are sensitive, how many people are like that?
00:26:10.000 People believe that it's between 2 and 3% of people who are aware of it and take defensive measures in order to combat these environmental exposures.
00:26:23.000 Now, the mechanisms are probably exactly the same as the one that we discussed.
00:26:29.000 Essentially, when you generate reactive oxygen species, your nervous system and your immunity can become sensitized to it, and the nervous system will react.
00:26:42.000 Now, I know of cases where children who are electrosensitive would find in a classroom the one spot.
00:26:51.000 Where the radiation was lowest.
00:26:53.000 And I would go in with my instrument and I would realize, oh, this is where he sits, right?
00:26:58.000 And these people know spontaneously how to defend themselves against the radiation.
00:27:04.000 But indeed, they become ostracized from society.
00:27:08.000 And some people are very sensitive, not only to Radio frequency radiation, but also to radiation from power systems and even from static electricity.
00:27:21.000 So, it can become a very, very disturbing syndrome that changes your life completely.
00:27:29.000 And the fear that us, you know, public health people have, is that as we increase the level of radiation, are we going to magnify and increase correspondingly the number of people who are afflicted by this?
00:27:44.000 And nobody wants that to happen.
00:27:47.000 Now, the mechanisms of increases in reactive oxygen species is a mechanism that can, I would say, solicit many physiological processes.
00:28:00.000 And that explains why all people who are electromagnetically sensitive don't have exactly the same symptoms.
00:28:08.000 I know a woman whose left eye closes each time there is radiation, and very reliably, for other people, they will get a headache.
00:28:17.000 That depends on individual physiology and sometimes on the variables of the exposure, because as you know, our electric environment is extremely complicated.
00:28:28.000 It's a mixture of all sorts of ingredients.
00:28:31.000 And for this reason, it has been very difficult to unravel.
00:28:37.000 Another aspect is that when people try to do experiments, they are rarely in a position in which they can provide a completely radiation-free environment as a baseline in their research.
00:28:52.000 This has made the whole field of bioelectromagnetics very complicated.
00:28:58.000 I would say the reactive oxygen species is a dominant mechanism, also changes in metabolism, and that is essentially happening.
00:29:07.000 There's also a third mechanism that I know of.
00:29:10.000 This is less known.
00:29:11.000 It's called the Rathus mechanism.
00:29:13.000 This is a mechanism by which radiation changes the pH in the fluid, even in water.
00:29:19.000 And so all of these things together can create extremely complicated effects and syndromes.
00:29:25.000 And these EHS people, Come with all sorts of symptoms regularly and phone me and ask for help.
00:29:35.000 Now, you've said, and this is very, very well established in the science, that the principal exposure to most people from radiation is, one, cell towers that are near your home or near your place of business, and then also, probably the worst, putting a cell phone next to your head.
00:29:53.000 Can you talk about that?
00:29:55.000 And can you talk about particularly children, you know, that are now, we've got a generation of kids.
00:30:01.000 That he had to wake up, sleeping inches from their cell phones, and their cell phones in bed with them at night.
00:30:08.000 I tell my kids this, you know, because I'm involved in those issues.
00:30:14.000 I read the science and I'm alarmed.
00:30:17.000 But I can't convey my alarm to my kids.
00:30:20.000 They just don't believe it.
00:30:22.000 And, you know, I have to go in their rooms at night from when they were little and take the cell phone out of the beds if they sleep with them next to their pillows.
00:30:35.000 What is this doing and what a year, you know, what a year of feelings about that.
00:30:40.000 Well, what you're fighting is something very powerful.
00:30:43.000 People instinctively believe that if government allows something on the market, it must be fine.
00:30:51.000 And they don't realize that there's intimate connections between government and industry.
00:30:56.000 And so if industry is given too much leeway, you're looking for catastrophes.
00:31:05.000 Remember this guy Adam Smith, right?
00:31:09.000 1776, he is the father of capitalism.
00:31:15.000 Capitalism, yes.
00:31:16.000 But in The Wealth of Nations, he warns us, he says, do not let the merchants take the control of the laws.
00:31:27.000 These people have in the past harmed populations.
00:31:31.000 But in the United States, apparently, the FCC has been labeled a captured agency, and it is not the only one.
00:31:40.000 So we need somebody like yourself to put a bit of order in the house, in my opinion.
00:31:46.000 And so, in view of your experience with corporate corporations generally, I think you would be a great man to do that.
00:31:56.000 I wish you the best of luck.
00:31:59.000 I want to point out that that lug for me was not rearranged.
00:32:05.000 It's very spontaneous.
00:32:06.000 I admire a lot some of the statements that you make about government.
00:32:11.000 We need government, but government should not be a substitute for the people.
00:32:17.000 And in some ways, this is exactly what it is trying to do.
00:32:21.000 In most industrial nations, governments now control the majority.
00:32:26.000 of the money flow in a country.
00:32:29.000 That means that government changes its own ideas about itself.
00:32:34.000 But going back to the exposure, depending on whether you consider that high-intensity exposures or chronic exposures, which over a long period of time, are the most important, some people would say that the cell phone is the dominant exposure because it radiates into your head at very high intensities.
00:32:57.000 In fact, when you put a cell phone against your head, only about 20% of the radiation goes for communication.
00:33:04.000 The rest is diffused into your body, which explains a lot of things.
00:33:09.000 So, intense exposures from cell phones, but cell phone towers are active all the time.
00:33:17.000 So, they contribute smaller levels, but if you multiply them by the time of exposure for most people, unless you use a cell phone professionally, they would be the strongest source of exposure.
00:33:31.000 So all of these things together will get worse over time as engineers who have no limits in their imagination think up things like the Internet of Things, the Internet of Bodies.
00:33:44.000 They would like everything to communicate with everything else.
00:33:48.000 But this is, in my opinion, a philosophy that is wrong-headed.
00:33:54.000 We don't need every grain of sand to communicate with every other grain of sand.
00:34:01.000 And we need privacy.
00:34:03.000 We need a decent environment to live in that is protected from the invasions of the engineers who feel that whatever they can do is appropriate.
00:34:18.000 What would you tell a parent about, you know, who's got kids sleeping with their cell phones and putting them next to their heads?
00:34:27.000 What advice would you give them?
00:34:29.000 You know, what's the best way to minimize that?
00:34:31.000 And what would you do to scare, to frighten them about, you know, appropriately?
00:34:36.000 Well, I would tell them, please protect their sleeping environment.
00:34:41.000 Because you may not have control over what happens in schools and elsewhere.
00:34:47.000 but you can at least control their bedrooms.
00:34:50.000 You have to make sure that in their bedrooms, both Low-frequency magnetic fields from baseboard heaters are low, as well as the radio frequencies from the routers or something like that.
00:35:02.000 These should be extinguished at night.
00:35:04.000 And how do I scare them?
00:35:07.000 Well, you know, dying from cancer or from any chronic disease at a very, very low age is a very dramatic thing.
00:35:18.000 And being impaired in your learning.
00:35:21.000 Because after all, this radiation is known to have impacts on the brain.
00:35:28.000 It alters memory in some ways.
00:35:31.000 Ways that are subtle, but that are nonetheless there.
00:35:34.000 Experiments on animals confirm this extensively.
00:35:38.000 So, if you want to protect the future of your child and remember that they will be exposed to this radiation a lot longer than us adults were, because for us, it's certainly recent invention.
00:35:51.000 For them, it will be lifelong exposure.
00:35:55.000 And the danger is that we will get used to new rates of cancer, new rates of diabetes, new rates of Alzheimer's, new rates of Parkinson's that will become entirely normal because practically the whole population is being exposed.
00:36:13.000 In other words, there are no controls left.
00:36:16.000 So wire your house for internet wiring and reduce your use of wireless.
00:36:26.000 I don't think we'll get use of wireless completely.
00:36:29.000 It will still be around, but it simply has to be managed in such a way that we reduced risk in particular to chronic diseases.
00:36:41.000 I want to get to that solution because you actually have a pretty elegant and workable solution, which is a future in fiber optic.
00:36:54.000 Cable, which is better for our privacy.
00:36:58.000 It's better for ending the surveillance state.
00:37:01.000 It will protect nature, protect our bodies, protect our children's health.
00:37:04.000 It will protect us against chronic disease, all of that.
00:37:08.000 I want to get into that in a minute, but tell me first, tell us, What are other countries doing?
00:37:16.000 You know, how do you see U.S. compared to European countries?
00:37:21.000 I know in some of the European countries, they're restricting cell phones for kids and schools.
00:37:29.000 And what Russia is doing, Russia knows a lot about this because they tried to develop it as a weapon originally.
00:37:37.000 And I use radiofrequency radiation, and it appears that people are using it as a weapon.
00:37:45.000 You know, we're seeing the Havana Syndrome, and there's a lot of Speculation about whether that's radiofrequency weaponry.
00:37:54.000 But talk about that, about what's happening in other countries, and also, if you can, about the use of it as a weapon.
00:38:04.000 As far as other countries in France, They discourage the use of wireless in kindergarten.
00:38:13.000 And in schools, they ask the children to leave their cell phones at the door.
00:38:20.000 And it's that simple.
00:38:21.000 And I think they're doing this because they apprehend the risk of the radiation, but also because they believe that it's not conducive to proper learning.
00:38:33.000 I mean, I've always wondered.
00:38:35.000 I'm a professor in a university, and I am in front of class, and all of these students in front of me have their laptops open with Wi-Fi provided by the university.
00:38:49.000 Are they doing some homework, you know, from the previous class?
00:38:54.000 What are they doing exactly?
00:38:55.000 I do want them to look up information that would be relevant to the discussion in class.
00:39:01.000 But what it means is that essentially you are curtailing, diminishing, you know, attenuating any discussion that could happen in class normally because essentially everybody can go their own way and Socially, this is a catastrophe.
00:39:19.000 You see it even in very simple countries where people used to meet in the public place on Sundays and talk.
00:39:30.000 And after the advent of cell phones, everybody's on their cell phone.
00:39:35.000 These are addictive devices that have to be controlled because you have a science that's being developed to capture attention.
00:39:46.000 And this attention is subtracted from family life and from intellectual life.
00:39:53.000 So I never understood, personally, why in a class you don't want all the students to be attentive to what's happening.
00:40:01.000 And we encourage people, on the basis of what?
00:40:04.000 I have no idea.
00:40:06.000 On the basis of laissez faire, that a salesman told you that this will be a boon to our education.
00:40:13.000 And children, of course, are very vulnerable to these things because their brains are developing.
00:40:20.000 And so any signs, and there are many, that the brain does not all develop in the same way when it's subjected to this radiation are quite alarming.
00:40:32.000 All right, let's talk about solutions.
00:40:35.000 What is the solution?
00:40:37.000 You know, one of the things that you've talked a lot about is fiber optic cables.
00:40:41.000 And what is, you know, how would that solve the problem?
00:40:45.000 Clinton promised the US population that they would get fiber to the home, didn't he?
00:40:53.000 And what happened instead is that the industry took in the money and developed wireless.
00:41:00.000 So the promise that President Clinton had made perfect technical sense.
00:41:06.000 You want to provide people with speed and with access to the world through the Internet.
00:41:12.000 And essentially, when industry took that contract up, They perverted it to a wireless, I would say, deployment simply because they thought that they could make more money that way.
00:41:30.000 And so, I believe myself that businesses and private households should have wired optical fiber, which has a potential for speed that is enormously higher than what wireless has.
00:41:47.000 And secondly, it is energy- Very, very efficient.
00:41:51.000 We have to think in terms of the energy that we need to spend per bit or a byte of data that we're transmitting, because apparently the appetite of people for data is very, very large.
00:42:06.000 So we have to be thoughtful of how we transmit information, lest You know, a large proportion of U.S. electrical power is completely absorbed by, you know, telecommunications devices.
00:42:21.000 So this is very, very important.
00:42:23.000 So fiber to businesses and to the home is one thing.
00:42:26.000 A second thing that is coming up that may become very important is Li-Fi.
00:42:32.000 We believe that the frequencies of radiation that are visible or very near to the infrared might be less physiologically hazardous because living systems have had a very long time to adapt to this radiation.
00:42:49.000 Whereas the microwave and radio frequency radiations are entirely new, To the environment.
00:42:57.000 In other words, there was none of this before the development of radio frequency techniques.
00:43:04.000 So, by using infrared and Li-Fi, we could potentially restore our ability to have wireless wireless At much, much, much reduced risks.
00:43:16.000 So I'm not saying that Li-Fi will not be found one day to have some risks, but we have been using Li-Fi for some applications for some time.
00:43:27.000 We've used headsets that are using infrared, for example.
00:43:34.000 And I don't believe that there are reports that this has been found to be deleterious.
00:43:39.000 We have had remote controls for television for a long time that were also infrared.
00:43:44.000 So there is this belief that infrared radiation will be much less dangerous than radio frequencies, simply because we have had about 3 billion years to get used to this type of radiation.
00:43:58.000 In terms of personal use, you know, my practice is that I never put the cell phone next to my head.
00:44:07.000 I keep it on the speaker all the time.
00:44:10.000 And I hold it away from my body.
00:44:14.000 Do headsets work?
00:44:17.000 Or earphones?
00:44:18.000 Well, if you're using an air tube, it is a very good installation, of course.
00:44:24.000 Now, if you're using a normal ear set, well, this has a wire that's leading into your ear, so it's not quite as good insulation as an air tube, which is entirely non-electrical.
00:44:43.000 But there's many alterations that could be made.
00:44:46.000 You could have a cell phone that emits infrared radiation, and you could have something on your head that receives this infrared radiation, and that would be a big gain.
00:44:59.000 Because in a cell phone, you indeed have a lot of radio frequency radiation that is funneled right into your head.
00:45:09.000 How about earpods?
00:45:10.000 Well, the problem with those is that they're not very, very powerful, but you stick them right into your ear.
00:45:16.000 So the dose that you get from such devices is very hard to measure for a couple of reasons.
00:45:24.000 Since they are low power, they get an exemption when they're approved.
00:45:29.000 So you're not obligated to investigate how they irradiate your tissues.
00:45:36.000 And Making measurements inside your ear while you're using an AirPod is even more difficult than assessing the radiation from a cell phone.
00:45:46.000 For a cell phone, you know how they do it generally.
00:45:49.000 They use a mixture of water, salt, and sugar.
00:45:54.000 That they sort of stir together and they put the cell phone above this solution and they determine how much it heats up the solution.
00:46:02.000 This is very, very crude and simple.
00:46:05.000 At least it's something.
00:46:06.000 In the case of an earpod, it's very hard to know.
00:46:09.000 There is no requirement to specify it.
00:46:12.000 So we're being more and more Inundated with these devices that are assumed on the basis of a bunch of monkeys and rats for 40 to 60 minutes to have no effect on you for your lifetime.
00:46:27.000 How nice is that?
00:46:30.000 Okay, apps.
00:46:33.000 I remember just reading what I was preparing for the case, for the argument, and the Court of Appeals case, reading some studies that show that the more apps you have on the phone, the more radiation that's coming out.
00:46:49.000 And in the same question, are there some cell phones that are better than others?
00:46:54.000 Yeah, the Apple phones are the worst.
00:46:57.000 That's very, very clear.
00:46:58.000 Yeah, the Apple phones are the worst.
00:47:00.000 Yes.
00:47:00.000 And you notice that all these electrical devices have something in common.
00:47:05.000 The computer initially, you know, they used an operating system called DOS. DOS answered the commands of the user.
00:47:14.000 And then some more sophisticated operating systems came into being, like Windows, for example.
00:47:21.000 And what you notice of them is that the operating system took a lot of initiatives.
00:47:28.000 On its own, it did things.
00:47:30.000 And over time, progressively, we have lost control of computers.
00:47:36.000 In other words, you feel that they're owned by the people who sold them to you.
00:47:41.000 They have these updates and these inevitable, I would say, Appendages to the software that provide you with publicity and exactly the same thing is happening to cell phones.
00:47:55.000 You place them on airplane mode yet they will still emit radiation because the owner is actually the company who programs them and who updates the software in it automatically.
00:48:12.000 So it is an invasion because With electronics and programming, it is possible to do that.
00:48:21.000 And the more apps that you have on your cell phone, the more radiation you're getting.
00:48:26.000 They're all little individuals that have their own desires to communicate with the outside.
00:48:33.000 So, if it's a weather service, how often do you want the weather?
00:48:37.000 I think, in my opinion, cell phones should...
00:48:42.000 Let they'll be yours.
00:48:43.000 They should respond to your desires and your commands and not push information to you and not suggest things to you about your behavior or wake you up at one moment or another unless you want to.
00:48:58.000 So you're being relieved of control by artificial intelligence devices that are under the control and the interests of others.
00:49:12.000 Okay, weaponization.
00:49:15.000 The Afghanistan syndrome, is that coming from Wi-Fi weapons?
00:49:20.000 Well, you all know about this application that is very, very open about using, say, 100 gigahertz radiation to heat up the skin of protesters so that they flee away from a location.
00:49:36.000 This is a very, very simple application based on heat only.
00:49:40.000 But for this kind of application, you need essentially, I would say, large emitters.
00:49:48.000 You need antennas that are fairly cumbersome to carry around.
00:49:53.000 So when you see these things appearing at the site of your manifestation, you will not miss them.
00:50:01.000 Now, the more subtle effects Of mind control with the radiation.
00:50:08.000 In my opinion, mind control, as it very happens in science, this is a bit of an exaggeration.
00:50:15.000 I think they can probably disrupt your mind with it.
00:50:21.000 The view that the government takes control of your mind in this way, I think, is a little bit fantasy.
00:50:29.000 But if you're really willing to do it, you can probably make people sicker by simply exposing them to radiation in excessive levels.
00:50:41.000 I mean, that's totally in the realm of possibilities.
00:50:43.000 I don't think we have...
00:50:45.000 Could that be targeted to, like, a single apartment where a single person...
00:50:50.000 So that you could remotely, you know, have a weapon that would direct like a ray towards one apartment or any individual if you wanted to harm that person rather than, you know, the general public.
00:51:07.000 There are probably some frequencies that are more appropriate for this.
00:51:11.000 You've all probably heard that with 5G, for example, you have what we call beamforming.
00:51:17.000 What this means is that instead of having an antenna that broadcasts in a very, very general way, say, in a third of the space around it, it forms a beam that is really focused.
00:51:31.000 And this beam, of course, can also be very intense because it's a result of an antenna that has many, many small elements that are coordinated in order to achieve such an effect.
00:51:44.000 Once you try to beam it into an apartment, you have to consider, does this radiation go through the apartment, the walls of the apartment, the windows of the apartment?
00:51:54.000 Once it gets in there, is the target in direct line of sight or is it Going to have to bounce around.
00:52:03.000 And if it does bounce around, does it represent a little bit of a microwave oven-like, you know, situation?
00:52:11.000 Or is it going to be quickly attenuated?
00:52:13.000 So it requires a certain level of skill to be able to, I would say, pinpoint and target somebody.
00:52:21.000 But just to cause damage, the requirements are much, much, much lower in terms of knowledge.
00:52:29.000 Okay, driverless cars.
00:52:32.000 Do we need 5G for driverless cars?
00:52:34.000 You can't do that with fiber optics.
00:52:38.000 I never thought for the life of me that there was need in any way for driverless cars to have wireless.
00:52:48.000 I think driverless cars can be built with cameras that are very fast and look around them the same way that the driver does.
00:52:58.000 I think it's simply a habit or a mannerism of the industry to want to implant radiation and networking in everything.
00:53:09.000 Basically, the dealer wants to know ahead of the car driving into the garage who he is and what his scheduled maintenance is.
00:53:19.000 Very, very nice.
00:53:20.000 But I think that to drive on a highway, you need to see the highway.
00:53:26.000 And I think that the image analysis that is necessary for this is not quite within our reach.
00:53:32.000 You would have to have roads that are specially designed.
00:53:35.000 And if you have a big system of out route, probably it's possible to do this.
00:53:39.000 But...
00:53:41.000 It could be entirely done with vision as opposed to being done with wireless and creating a huge network which makes your car a spy wherever you need to leave it on the street.
00:53:54.000 Because after all, once it's wired and in communication, you have a fleet of vehicles that can probably hear things and probably see things.
00:54:09.000 What's your hope for the future?
00:54:15.000 You're not a pessimistic man.
00:54:19.000 You're a happy man and very idealistic.
00:54:22.000 And what do you see as the good future for us?
00:54:28.000 May I be honest?
00:54:30.000 Yeah.
00:54:32.000 I think you are the hope for the future because you are one of these few politicians that doesn't seem tied to all sorts of interests.
00:54:43.000 And I think you see the government process and the processes of society more clearly than certainly all the other candidates in the United States and possibly Better than all the politicians of the world.
00:54:59.000 I really respect the work that you are doing, and I have high hopes for your future.
00:55:06.000 All right.
00:55:07.000 Well, I want to tell everybody I was not fishing for that, but thank you very much.
00:55:11.000 And then tell us where people can reach you.
00:55:15.000 Dr.
00:55:16.000 Paul O'Roe, where do they reach you?
00:55:19.000 Oh, by the way, it's H-E-R-O-U-X. That's right.
00:55:23.000 And they can reach me by email at paul.heroux at mcgill.ca.
00:55:31.000 McGill is the university where I teach in Montreal.
00:55:35.000 Well, we all know McGill University.
00:55:38.000 Thank you very much, Dr.
00:55:39.000 Rowe.
00:55:40.000 It's been a pleasure talking to you.
00:55:42.000 Thank you, Robert.
00:55:43.000 The best of luck to you.
00:55:45.000 Thank you.