RFK Jr. The Defender - Government Hysteria with Alex Berenson

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 It's my honor to have as my guest, Alex Berenson, who just wrote this book, Pandemia.

00:00:07.000 And Alex Berenson covered the drug industry and financial fraud.

00:00:11.000 He's a reporter for the New York Times.

00:00:13.000 He's the author of Tell Your Children, The Truth About Marijuana, Mental Illness and Violence.

00:00:19.000 An Edgar Award-winning writing, best-selling thrillers, and a freelance journalist.

00:00:24.000 He's a graduate of Yale University.

00:00:26.000 He lives in New Jersey, and he has a Substack account, which I urge you to go to, alexberenson.substack.com.

00:00:36.000 Alex has been one of the leaders of The resistance throughout the pandemic very, very courageously began reporting he was not looking to be a revolutionary hero.

00:00:49.000 He was a science writer who was trying to report truths when the whole world was reporting lies.

00:00:57.000 And he became a hero to many of us during that period.

00:01:01.000 He's a prickly character and something of a young curmudgeon, but we're all grateful for his service to the truth to our country of public health.

00:01:11.000 Welcome to the show, Alex.

00:01:13.000 Well, thank you for having me.

00:01:15.000 And, you know, I don't know if I'm a curmudgeon, but as I say at one point in Pandemia, I, you know, I don't like to get pushed around.

00:01:22.000 And I have to say, having now lived through what they say about me, I, you know, I guess I understand you a little bit better because the stuff that gets said has nothing to do with reality.

00:01:35.000 And I guess at some point you just have to accept that and decide you're going to continue to report out.

00:01:41.000 Yeah, you have to find peace inside.

00:01:44.000 If you're among all the tumult and the darts, you have to be able to have.

00:01:50.000 I think you need a spiritual place to go.

00:01:52.000 Otherwise, it's hard to take.

00:01:55.000 That's an interesting way.

00:01:56.000 I mean, I just feel like I just am chasing the truth.

00:01:59.000 Like, that's my spiritual place.

00:02:00.000 Just trying to find out what the data is.

00:02:03.000 And maybe that's not good enough in the long run, but that's what I have now.

00:02:07.000 Anyway, it's great to be on with you.

00:02:09.000 You too.

00:02:10.000 In your book, you mentioned Stephen King's book, The Stand, which I don't know how many people read that.

00:02:17.000 I mean, it was a bestseller and it was Stephen King.

00:02:20.000 Oh, I think a lot of people read it.

00:02:21.000 It was a very long book.

00:02:23.000 Yes.

00:02:24.000 And so that may have defied a lot of the readers, but it was, I love that book.

00:02:30.000 And it was about a plague.

00:02:31.000 And one of the interesting things about it, and the plague was called Captain Tripp's.

00:02:37.000 And it killed outright probably 99% of people.

00:02:41.000 But what you have is kind of similar to what's happening now.

00:02:45.000 You had a very, very militarized response by the government.

00:02:50.000 And you, although not, maybe not as militarized as what we're seeing now, you had an extreme polarization in society where all of the liberals Are drawn to one community in Boulder, Colorado.

00:03:07.000 All of the conservatives are drawn to Las Vegas, Nevada.

00:03:10.000 And they're very organized and disciplined.

00:03:13.000 And then the two communities essentially have a battle against each other.

00:03:19.000 And I have not seen any references to it since this began.

00:03:24.000 And yours is the first one I saw.

00:03:26.000 And it struck me as that is really apropos.

00:03:30.000 Well, let's hope that's not where we're at.

00:03:34.000 I thought you were going to make a reference to the McNamara, you know, to the idea that this is the worst mistake we've made since Vietnam, which is, I think it's worse than Vietnam, but it's unquestionably worse.

00:03:45.000 You know, I mean, the handling of this pandemic, as you say, $27 trillion has caused us.

00:03:52.000 The worst thing is this tremendous shift of wealth.

00:03:56.000 $3.8 trillion from working people around the globe to these super rich titans.

00:04:03.000 We've created 500 new billionaires since it started.

00:04:07.000 And one of the things that I'd love you to talk about, because you do a great job in this book, of talking about how from the beginning, the internet titans smelled blood in the water.

00:04:20.000 They knew that this was going to help them.

00:04:22.000 And they were, you know, they essentially were...

00:04:26.000 Helped engineer a coup d'etat against American democracy, against the economy and everything else.

00:04:32.000 And they saw that all of these businesses that they were closing down and forcing people to stay in their home and use their computers and their website was going to give them Unheralded power over all of humanity and enrich them beyond, you know, anything imagined even by Midas.

00:04:52.000 And it was like you really outlined that in a way that I thought was really convincing.

00:04:59.000 My view of this is generally less...

00:05:03.000 I don't want to say conspiratorial, but I see less of a plan here than you do in many ways.

00:05:09.000 And what I see is people sort of seizing the moment in some ways.

00:05:15.000 And Upton Sinclair, this is the epigraph of my very first book, The Number, which is about sort of financial accounting and And how the stock market and Wall Street went bad in the 1990s, which, you know, it periodically does go bad.

00:05:28.000 The line is, it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

00:05:36.000 And that is one of the great lines in human history.

00:05:38.000 It's always been true.

00:05:39.000 It's true today.

00:05:41.000 And so these companies, you know, the big internet companies, look, I don't know what they knew or didn't know in March of 2020.

00:05:50.000 And And the panic, I think, certainly in places like New York, was real.

00:05:55.000 But it is also true that very clearly early on, they saw that having people at home would benefit them.

00:06:03.000 And so did Wall Street.

00:06:04.000 And you can see it in the movements of the stocks.

00:06:08.000 These companies, within a few months of the beginning of the pandemic, were trading at all-time highs.

00:06:14.000 They recovered more quickly.

00:06:16.000 They rose more quickly than anybody else.

00:06:18.000 And that was true.

00:06:19.000 Both of the real titans, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Netflix, but it was also true of these smaller companies like Peloton and Zoom and Pinterest.

00:06:31.000 These other companies recovered very, very quickly and soon set new highs.

00:06:36.000 And so the companies understood, certainly people, senior people in the companies must have understood that forcing people to be at home Yeah.

00:06:47.000 and into virtual school, forcing office workers to not see each other was going to be very good for them.

00:06:53.000 It was going to increase reliance on the internet.

00:06:55.000 And I mean, I talk about my wife a little bit in the book.

00:06:59.000 And one of the things that's happened to her is, you know, she now works as a psychiatrist for a company, doesn't matter what company, but they do outpatient psychiatry.

00:07:09.000 And, you know, she sees people every day who, you know, have problems because of too much screen time.

00:07:15.000 Well, how does she see them?

00:07:16.000 She sees them virtually because it's become clear to big companies, big service companies, big providers, that it's more efficient to do it that way.

00:07:28.000 Nobody has to drive anywhere.

00:07:29.000 Nobody has to meet in person.

00:07:30.000 If you're running five minutes late, you just open the call five minutes later.

00:07:35.000 It's much easier for everybody.

00:07:38.000 Unfortunately, the psychic costs are enormous, but the companies make money.

00:07:42.000 And I do think that's true.

00:07:44.000 And the other thing that happened, so that's the internet side of the billionaires.

00:07:48.000 The other side is that there was this titanic effort to save the economy from crashing completely in March 2020.

00:07:56.000 And that consisted of two, you know, sort of prime, there were two major ways that the government did that.

00:08:02.000 One was fiscal stimulus, meaning we're just going to pay people to stay home.

00:08:06.000 And okay, that was somewhat justifiable, I think, because, you know, you don't want somebody who lost their job because of a lockdown.

00:08:13.000 Not to be able to pay the rent or not to be able to pay for food.

00:08:16.000 That's clearly wrong.

00:08:17.000 But there was also tremendous what's called monetary stimulus.

00:08:20.000 And that just means essentially that the Federal Reserve suddenly is printing money.

00:08:24.000 There's lots of fancy ways to describe what they're doing, but basically they're just making money out of nothing.

00:08:31.000 And who benefited from that?

00:08:33.000 People in the financial system benefited from that.

00:08:36.000 Whether that was banks, whether that was hedge fund managers, whether that was private equity managers, those people have made, and people investing in Bitcoin, investing is sort of a loose word for that, but everybody who speculated made out tremendously well last year.

00:08:52.000 And so that is pretty indefensible.

00:08:54.000 And the other thing you've seen is now, after 30 years, when we really had inflation under control, inflation has gotten out of control.

00:09:01.000 And the people on the left, they want to blame supply chain problems, and maybe that's part of it.

00:09:06.000 But most of this probably has to do with the incredible amount of money that's been injected into the system in the last 18 months.

00:09:13.000 And to be honest, the Fed does not know how to get out of this right now.

00:09:16.000 They're very afraid that if they go back to something close to normal, the markets will crash.

00:09:21.000 And the economy will crash, and they don't know what to do about it.

00:09:24.000 And as a result, we have this inflation that was much worse than expected this year.

00:09:28.000 So yeah, Wall Street made a ton.

00:09:31.000 The internet companies made a ton.

00:09:32.000 And of course, healthcare, and most especially, the vaccine companies made a ton.

00:09:38.000 So this was very, very good for some very, very powerful and rich people.

00:09:42.000 And it's not a conspiracy to say that, you know, it is just the truth.

00:09:47.000 You found a Terrific quote from Dr.

00:09:50.000 Donald Henderson, who many people are familiar with.

00:09:53.000 And Dr.

00:09:54.000 Henderson was one of the people who, he won the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his role in obliterating smallpox.

00:10:05.000 And he's regarded as one of the gurus and charums of epidemic management.

00:10:11.000 He wrote in December 2006, he and three other scientists authored an 11-page paper about the best ways for managing This is in 2006.

00:10:24.000 And this kind of states the global orthodoxy at that time, that this was not unique, but the fact that he's writing it because he's such an important authority, let's say.

00:10:37.000 And what he says is, disease mitigation measures in the control of pandemic influenza.

00:10:44.000 After outlining lockdown measures, they pose the question, we must ask whether any of these proposed measures are epidemiologically sound and consider the possible secondary social and economic impacts.

00:10:59.000 That is a momentous and obvious piece of wisdom.

00:11:05.000 Before you lock down a society, you better make sure that the lockdown is not going to kill more people I'm not even looking about whether lockdowns are effective against mitigating the spread.

00:11:21.000 Will the lockdown itself kill the disease?

00:11:24.000 And one other thing that you do in your book is you do a very good job inventorying some of these catastrophic impacts of the lockdown.

00:11:33.000 Let's talk about that for a second.

00:11:35.000 Here's where I want to say something about your book, which is, you know, that last chapter about the games.

00:11:41.000 I mean, it's fairly clear that over the last 20 years, so these lockdowns, on the one hand, they came out of nowhere, right?

00:11:48.000 They were completely unforeseen by most people, including some people in public health.

00:11:54.000 They couldn't have happened without what happened in China in January 2020 and then Italy in late February, early March 2020.

00:12:00.000 On the other hand, and this is where your book, to me, the most interesting stuff, you know, there's lots of interesting stuff in it.

00:12:08.000 But the most interesting stuff, it was seeing how this small but determined group of pandemic fearmongers and pro-lockdowners laid the groundwork for this over a 20-year period.

00:12:23.000 And how, over and over again, they tried to move this to the mainstream.

00:12:29.000 And so when this happened, there was a playbook.

00:12:33.000 And I don't think most people, aside from this real small handful of people, some inside the U.S. government, then the guy, Richard Hatchett at the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness, And a handful of other people had sort of been planning a response to this and were just dying to put it into gear.

00:12:52.000 And the other thing is they had been sort of promising, I hate to use that word, but let's say they had been predicting a pandemic on this scale for years, and they'd been wrong over and over again, right?

00:13:07.000 So they're wrong in 2003.

00:13:09.000 They're wrong in 2005.

00:13:11.000 They're wrong in 2009.

00:13:12.000 They're wrong in 2013.

00:13:14.000 They're wrong about Ebola.

00:13:16.000 They're wrong about Zika.

00:13:17.000 They're wrong about West Nile.

00:13:18.000 None of it really does anything, okay?

00:13:21.000 For 20 years, they've been telling people, you got to be aware that this is a real terrible risk.

00:13:26.000 You know, the Soviet Union's gone.

00:13:28.000 It's not going to be smallpox.

00:13:29.000 It's going to be some emerging epidemic that we don't know about.

00:13:32.000 And when that happens, we're going to lock down the world.

00:13:35.000 Well, you know what?

00:13:36.000 Their funding actually, in some cases, is actually starting to dry up.

00:13:39.000 You know, you saw this with Daszak's group.

00:13:42.000 The USAID contract had run out, and they were looking at not having another contract to move.

00:13:47.000 Well, just in time, at the beginning of 2020, there's a pandemic that, you know, is finally disease X. They finally get what they've been predicting all along.

00:13:57.000 And we can talk about where disease X came from and...

00:14:01.000 You know, that's another part of this.

00:14:04.000 But I think what your book does so brilliantly, which I didn't, you know, and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about this.

00:14:10.000 I was not knowledgeable about the number of sort of war games and epidemic exercises that had happened over the two decades.

00:14:19.000 So yes, nobody thought that lockdowns were possible except this tiny group of people who thought, you know, who were planning them.

00:14:27.000 Yeah, we're going to come back to lockdowns, but let's talk about the way they triggered the lockdowns, which was essentially using models from two different institutions, which some of them developed by people who are clearly,

00:14:44.000 a history is almost kind of grifters, you know, pandemic predictors, consistently predicting them, but Who exaggerated, and this actually is where Alex Berenson made his bones and captured all of our public attention because you were so meticulous at that time during the early pandemic at saying,

00:15:09.000 wait a minute, here's the models that they're using and here's the actual daily death rates and infection rates.

00:15:17.000 And they're nowhere close.

00:15:19.000 And the models, IMHE, which is funded by Gates, and Ferguson's also funded largely by Gates in England, and the models for those two groups were so out of control.

00:15:33.000 So talk about that a little.

00:15:35.000 Sure.

00:15:35.000 I think you sort of outlined, and it is in Pandemia, you know, I was a comparative nobody in March 2020.

00:15:42.000 I mean, I had been a reporter for the Times many years before, but I, you know, I'd written some spy novels in the interim, and then I wrote a book about cannabis, which, you know, got some attention, but it wasn't a huge, you know, it was a, I would say it was a Medium important piece of nonfiction.

00:15:57.000 It was not a life-changing book.

00:15:59.000 And so, you know, I saw what Ferguson was doing and how he had made this, you know, incredibly terrifying prediction back in March, you know, back in mid-March.

00:16:12.000 So Neil Ferguson is a physicist, actually, by trade.

00:16:16.000 And he then became an epidemiologist.

00:16:19.000 And this was sort of in the late 90s, he became an epidemiologist.

00:16:23.000 And over the next, you know, really 20 years, he made a series of completely wrong predictions.

00:16:28.000 I mean, laughably wrong predictions.

00:16:30.000 One was off by a factor of a million.

00:16:32.000 And I'm not exaggerating.

00:16:34.000 He was wrong by a factor of a million.

00:16:35.000 He said the swine flu in 2005 might kill, you know, 200 million people, and it killed 200.

00:16:41.000 So he was a fool, but he has a great accent, and he has a great degree, and that'll take you a long way. 0.75

00:16:50.000 And he's one of these people who was wrong over and over and over again.

00:16:53.000 So in February of 2020, as the pandemic started, When he accelerates in China, he gets very concerned.

00:17:01.000 So he works for Imperial College London, which is a well-known university in London, and they have a deal with the WHO. And he's also part of something called SAGE, which is not a secret group, but not highly publicized group, called the Scientific Advisory...

00:17:16.000 I'm sorry, I should have this off the top of my head.

00:17:19.000 I want to say Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies.

00:17:22.000 That may be wrong, and if it is, I apologize.

00:17:25.000 It does meet secretly and it has very, very powerful people like Jeremy Farrar from Welcome Trust is on and off of it and a lot of other people.

00:17:36.000 Yes.

00:17:37.000 I mean, it's basically sort of a kitchen cabinet for the top people in the British government.

00:17:43.000 So, yeah, I would say there's been more transparency around SAGE in the last year, but there's still, early on, there was very, very little.

00:17:51.000 So Ferguson has these platforms.

00:17:53.000 He has the WHO, Imperial College platform, Where he can sort of communicate at first privately to governments all over the world, and then publicly he can put out a report.

00:18:04.000 And then he has a direct line to the British, you know, the top levels of the British government.

00:18:08.000 And Ferguson panics.

00:18:10.000 And he releases a model in mid-March 2020 that says at least 2 million people are going to die in the U.S. if we don't do anything.

00:18:17.000 500,000 people are going to die in the U.K. And by the way, even if we really lock down society until a The numbers are going to be half that.

00:18:27.000 We're going to have to go even further than a normal standard.

00:18:31.000 It's hard to know what a standard lockdown was then, but we're going to have to go to something called suppression, which was really everybody stays in your homes and, you know, something close to what the Chinese were doing, where basically you couldn't go outside without approval. 0.98

00:18:46.000 So that's sort of, Ferguson says, we need this or the hospitals are going to be overrun.

00:18:51.000 And, you know, I think this is a really important point that we need to remember The initial point of lockdowns was to save the medical system, right?

00:19:00.000 It was not to prevent anyone from dying from COVID. There were these predictions that there were going to be 10 times as many people needing hospitalization as all the beds in New York State.

00:19:12.000 So I think, I'm exaggerating slightly, I think the actual numbers, we're going to need 65,000 hospital beds and New York State has, you know, 18,000 beds.

00:19:23.000 It was going to be a complete collapse of the hospital system within weeks, where people were going to be, I mean, no exaggeration, had this stuff come true or been close to coming true, there would have been people dying outside the hospitals, intense, untreated.

00:19:41.000 That was essentially what they were predicting.

00:19:44.000 They didn't quite come out and say that, but look at what the numbers were.

00:19:47.000 They were far, far, far beyond the ability of the system to cope.

00:19:54.000 You quote Levine, Mark Levin from the city council.

00:19:59.000 They were going to be graves dug in Central Park.

00:20:05.000 Central Park was going to be a cemetery.

00:20:07.000 That's right.

00:20:08.000 Central Park would be turned into a cemetery.

00:20:11.000 That's right.

00:20:12.000 And here's the thing.

00:20:13.000 The reason...

00:20:14.000 So, okay, so, you know, not that many people knew who I was.

00:20:16.000 So, okay, so Ferguson puts this out.

00:20:18.000 And then literally 10 days later, he says, Oh, you know what?

00:20:23.000 You know how I said 500,000 people would die if we didn't do anything?

00:20:26.000 It's actually 25,000 in the UK. By the way, he was wrong both ways.

00:20:30.000 Now one number is too high, one number is too low.

00:20:32.000 And so nobody noticed that.

00:20:35.000 You've got a few stories in the UK. Nobody in the US noticed that.

00:20:38.000 And I thought to myself, this is crazy.

00:20:40.000 We did this because of what this guy said.

00:20:43.000 We locked down because he said the hospitals were going to get crushed.

00:20:46.000 And now he's saying, oh, you know, I take it back.

00:20:49.000 They're not going to get crushed.

00:20:50.000 Okay, so that was like the 26th or 27th of March.

00:20:54.000 Then, so the thing about exponential growth, I mean, this truly was supposed to be something where it was not going to be months away, much less years away.

00:21:03.000 It was going to be days away.

00:21:04.000 That these numbers were going to double and double and double.

00:21:08.000 And all of a sudden, by the end of March, by March 31st, April 1st, 2020, 10,000 New Yorkers a day were going to need hospitalization.

00:21:17.000 10,000 new beds needed every day.

00:21:21.000 And the problem was that was completely wrong.

00:21:25.000 It was within days you could see it was wrong.

00:21:29.000 There was no acceleration in the number of people showing up.

00:21:33.000 Just to interrupt you for a minute, Alec, what you were doing, which nobody else was doing, was there was actually a daily predictor in Ferguson's model.

00:21:47.000 No, in the IHMG model.

00:21:49.000 In the IMHG model.

00:21:50.000 Yes.

00:21:51.000 Where you could check it against the hospital beds that were, if the prediction was right, you could check the two numbers, the predictive number and the actual number, and they were.

00:22:01.000 Completely wrong.

00:22:02.000 Light years apart.

00:22:03.000 That's right.

00:22:04.000 Nobody was noticing.

00:22:05.000 And Cuomo was getting up there every day and using the predictive numbers, even though he had the other numbers.

00:22:13.000 Well, I mean, it's weirder than that.

00:22:15.000 You know, I sort of have to walk through in the book.

00:22:16.000 It's almost hard to explain to people.

00:22:18.000 It wasn't that the prediction for a week out was wrong.

00:22:21.000 It was that the number that day was wrong.

00:22:23.000 So IHME would say on April 3rd, there are 12,000 people in New York's hospital beds with COVID or whatever the number was.

00:22:31.000 And tomorrow it's going to be 17,000.

00:22:33.000 And guess what?

00:22:34.000 On April 3rd, it was actually 3,000 people in the hospitals.

00:22:38.000 Not 12,000.

00:22:39.000 And the next day it was 3,500, not 17,000.

00:22:42.000 And again, I'd have to go back and look at what the numbers actually are, but that's approximately correct.

00:22:47.000 The IHME model, it wasn't that it was getting things wrong in the future, although it did get things wrong in the future.

00:22:55.000 It was getting things wrong the day of.

00:22:57.000 It way wrong.

00:22:59.000 And so in this model world, Which the Times was reporting on and Cuomo was talking about.

00:23:06.000 In the modeled world, all the hospitals were overrun.

00:23:10.000 In the real world, yeah, they were getting full in New York, but they were not overrun.

00:23:15.000 And everywhere else in the country, they were empty.

00:23:17.000 And nobody seemed to notice.

00:23:20.000 I think I remember at that time.

00:23:23.000 The hospitals use a system where they have a diversion alert where a hospital that is overrun diverts patients away, ambulances away, to nearby hospitals.

00:23:36.000 And I think there was only one hospital in New York, Queen Elmhurst Hospital, that ever had a diversion alert, and all the other ones had empty beds all the time.

00:23:46.000 I'm not sure that's true in New York City, but I can tell you.

00:23:49.000 So this was something else I was able to do.

00:23:51.000 New Jersey, it was online in real time.

00:23:53.000 So you could see which hospital, because these hospitals would want to notify each other.

00:23:58.000 And, you know, New Jersey, I think, has 80 hospitals.

00:24:01.000 And usually there was like one diversion, you know, and it wasn't, oftentimes it was like psych ER or something.

00:24:07.000 So, yeah, it was not happening.

00:24:09.000 I mean, you know, I have to tell you, as I'm recounting this to you, It's so shocking to me.

00:24:14.000 Like, why was I the only journalist in the United States doing this?

00:24:19.000 But, you know, it's been repeated with the vaccines.

00:24:21.000 Like, the data is not that hard to find.

00:24:24.000 Now, I have people helping me, just like you have people helping you now get some of this data.

00:24:29.000 But a lot of it is public.

00:24:31.000 It's insane, the failure of the media here.

00:24:35.000 Yeah.

00:24:36.000 How do you explain that?

00:24:39.000 How do you explain how they all got subsumed in the orthodoxy?

00:24:43.000 Because it really is a catastrophic phenomenon for our country, for democracy, for public health and everything.

00:24:51.000 I mean, CNN is probably the worst example.

00:24:56.000 And you can see the direct connection between the pharmaceutical advertisements and brought to you by Pfizer, but there's a lot of other media outlets that are not getting that much money from pharma, and they're still all subsumed in that orthodoxy, and they're all practicing that censorship.

00:25:14.000 That's a great question, and I'm glad you pointed out that, you know, the Times, for example, doesn't get that much money from Pfizer.

00:25:19.000 You know, I say in Pandemia that I think, look, it was very clear early on that this was going to hurt Trump.

00:25:26.000 And a lot of the media hated Trump, hates Trump to this day.

00:25:31.000 And they were willing to do almost anything to get him out of office.

00:25:35.000 And so that was a dangerous phenomenon.

00:25:37.000 There was real fear in New York in March.

00:25:41.000 There was a surge of deaths.

00:25:43.000 That's a fact.

00:25:44.000 And I don't think people quite understood how much of that had to do with problems with the ventilators and how much of it had to do with Cuomo sending sick people back to nursing homes.

00:25:54.000 But look, there were real deaths, okay?

00:25:56.000 And I don't live in the city, but I was in the city a lot because I was visiting my father, who was quite sick at the time.

00:26:03.000 He wound up dying in May 2020, not of COVID, as I talk about a little bit in Pandemia.

00:26:09.000 There was real fear.

00:26:10.000 So there was this hatred of Trump.

00:26:12.000 There was real fear.

00:26:13.000 And frankly, a lot of reporters are afraid to challenge, quote unquote, capital S science.

00:26:19.000 They're not very good at math.

00:26:20.000 They're not very good at science.

00:26:23.000 That's why they became reporters.

00:26:25.000 And there's a handful who are.

00:26:27.000 But when you put those three things together, the train got going very quickly and And it became very hard, I think, to acknowledge that the reality was not as bad as it had been made out to be.

00:26:40.000 Let me go to the next step with you, okay?

00:26:43.000 So they exaggerate the predictions, and it triggers us into this cascading effect of where we all accept a two-week lockdown.

00:26:53.000 But then...

00:26:54.000 There's all these weird steps that are taken by the government to exaggerate the deaths and exaggerate the cases.

00:27:05.000 And among those are the, which you talk about in the book, and I think one of the best ways, there's parts of this book that in the future I will cut out those pages and send it to people about specific issues because you summarized them so efficiently.

00:27:24.000 One of the areas where you do this is talking about all of these devices that the federal public health agencies used that all had the result of exaggerating the impacts of the pandemic.

00:27:40.000 One was the coding of death certificates.

00:27:42.000 Another was the PCR test.

00:27:45.000 Yes.

00:27:46.000 It all pointed the same way.

00:27:48.000 And again, and this is where maybe I'm, you know, for all my cynicism, maybe I'm naive.

00:27:54.000 When all the errors point the same way, I know there's this desire to say it must be a conspiracy.

00:28:01.000 But, you know, I just don't know.

00:28:02.000 I mean, I think there was a great fear at the beginning that, you know, that this was going to get out of control.

00:28:09.000 And here's where I will get a little bit conspiratorial, okay?

00:28:12.000 Yeah.

00:28:13.000 Why was there such a fear at the Maybe you're believing the worst because

00:28:44.000 of your inside knowledge of the work that was being done and the risk that they were taking.

00:28:50.000 And again, that's not to say that they did it intentionally.

00:28:53.000 It's like, oh man, you can imagine the conversation where it's like, the Chinese really screwed up. 1.00

00:28:59.000 And they created this thing that is bad.

00:29:03.000 And it's going to kill 3% of the people in the world.

00:29:06.000 And that's, you know, I know that we haven't quite seen that yet, but that's where it's going.

00:29:11.000 And we need to respond to that in this way.

00:29:14.000 And so to me, that is a plausible explanation, although we don't know if it's true, why they overreacted so fiercely when they should have pulled back.

00:29:24.000 The question, let's assume that that's true.

00:29:26.000 And I'm going to continue to say we don't know if that's true.

00:29:29.000 Why couldn't they pull back a month or two later?

00:29:32.000 I don't understand that part either.

00:29:34.000 Yeah.

00:29:35.000 Now, let's talk about how many people died from the pandemic, from COVID, and what that means.

00:29:46.000 And one of the things that you do that I think is really valuable to people that is To impose a reality, a realistic risk assessment on COVID is to basically, and you don't say this directly, but that we need to be looking at life years lost rather than lives lost because the deaths were overwhelmingly among people who would have died that year in

00:30:16.000 any case.

00:30:17.000 Let's talk about that.

00:30:19.000 Sure.

00:30:20.000 So, I mean, I don't know if I would say that overwhelmingly among people would have died that year, depending on, you know, how you...

00:30:27.000 I think you...

00:30:28.000 Who you believe, I would say...

00:30:29.000 I think you'd say at one point, 40% would have died that year and 60% by the second year.

00:30:36.000 I think at least half, you know, the best estimates, and this was going on funeral home operators who obviously have insight into the, you know, into the cases, and actually Ferguson said it too.

00:30:46.000 He actually said two-thirds of people, I think, Within 18 months and at least a third the year of, meaning this was in early 2020.

00:30:55.000 When you look at who died, okay, so COVID picks on three kinds of people.

00:31:01.000 And it does.

00:31:01.000 It picks on people, okay?

00:31:03.000 It picks on the extremely elderly in a country like Canada. 0.73

00:31:07.000 Half the people who died from COVID, the median age of death, was 85.

00:31:11.000 I mean, half the people who died were over 85.

00:31:13.000 In Italy, 82 or 83.

00:31:16.000 Now, in the U.S., it's slightly younger.

00:31:18.000 It's in the high 70s.

00:31:19.000 Now, why is it younger in the U.S.? Because there's other two groups of people.

00:31:23.000 What?

00:31:24.000 Because we get a chronic disease here.

00:31:26.000 Well, we have tons of severe obesity.

00:31:29.000 Yeah.

00:31:29.000 And when you see people who are under 50 dying of COVID, they are overwhelmingly obese with cardiac conditions or severely obese.

00:31:39.000 I'm not going to say there aren't exceptions, but those are the people who die.

00:31:42.000 And then the third group is just sort of unfortunate people who might have downs or people who have genetic abnormalities who have been sick from birth.

00:31:52.000 And so those are the people who die from COVID. So it's sort of hard to say that so openly without sounding harsh, but I don't mean to sound harsh.

00:32:01.000 This does not mean that those people shouldn't be protected and we shouldn't do everything possible to help them.

00:32:08.000 It means that we need to be realistic about who's not at risk.

00:32:12.000 And that when we shut down society to protect the vast majority of younger people who are not at risk, we're harming them.

00:32:20.000 It is unfair to them.

00:32:21.000 It is bad public policy, and it's wrong.

00:32:24.000 And the younger you go, the wronger it is.

00:32:28.000 Here's the thing.

00:32:29.000 When you say this, people on the left say, you're denying the reality of COVID and you're one of those people who says that only 5% of the deaths were actually COVID. No, I'm not saying that at all.

00:32:39.000 COVID caused substantial excess mortality in the United States in 2020 and in early 2021.

00:32:45.000 I will say right now, it's a lot harder to separate out COVID from the vaccine deaths, which is a whole different issue.

00:32:52.000 But clearly, in the pre-vaccine days, COVID was causing substantial excess mortality.

00:32:58.000 No question about it.

00:32:59.000 But those folks were going to die for the most part within a year or two.

00:33:06.000 And there was just nothing we could do about it.

00:33:08.000 And I'll give you the one number that says this more powerfully than any other.

00:33:12.000 35%, and depending on some states it's even more, some countries it's even more, 35% of all the deaths in the U.S. from COVID last year were in nursing home patients.

00:33:23.000 The average life expectancy, and I hate to say this, because one day we're all going to be entering a nursing home, the average life expectancy once you enter a nursing home is six months.

00:33:32.000 Those are places we send people, even though we're not honest about it, we send them there to die. 0.60

00:33:37.000 And COVID killed those people Preferentially.

00:33:41.000 It kills the sickest of the sick.

00:33:43.000 But you also do a good job of this showing why it was that I think 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds believed that if they got COVID, they had like a 30 or 40% chance of dying because the media coverage did not stratify that data in a way that And Americans could really understand a risk profile.

00:34:09.000 It was deliberately blurred and conflated by a lot of different people to make it look like we all face it.

00:34:19.000 And here's where I will go with the conspiracy.

00:34:21.000 That was intentional.

00:34:22.000 And you can see it in a SAGE document.

00:34:25.000 You can see it in German government documents.

00:34:27.000 I'm sure there are U.S. documents, too, although they have not come out yet.

00:34:31.000 And the news media happily participated in it.

00:34:34.000 And I'll never forget, last year there was a story in the Times of this guy named Tyler Ambergray, and he was 29, he was in Texas, and the story is how he was this fit hockey player who died of COVID. And I read this and I thought to myself, there's no way, okay?

00:34:51.000 It's just not possible.

00:34:52.000 And there was something in the story about how he'd gotten COVID and he'd taken a sleeping pill and he hadn't woken up.

00:34:59.000 But it was a COVID death.

00:35:01.000 And so I got the autopsy.

00:35:03.000 In Texas, you can get the autopsies.

00:35:05.000 In my opinion, autopsies should be public information in every state.

00:35:10.000 The dead, it doesn't matter to them, and the rest of us should know what's happened when somebody has died in a way that requires an autopsy, in my opinion.

00:35:19.000 As a reporter.

00:35:20.000 But so in Texas, you can get the autopsy.

00:35:22.000 And what the autopsy showed was, yes, Tyler Ambergway had had COVID. No, he had never, as far as I can recall, he had never gone to the hospital.

00:35:31.000 And he died, according to this, primarily of a drug overdose.

00:35:35.000 Okay.

00:35:35.000 And so that was the truth.

00:35:38.000 And that's You know, and maybe, and COVID was on the death certificate because he had had COVID at the time, and so technically you could report it as a COVID death, but he died primarily, again, according to the report, of a drug overdose.

00:35:52.000 And so that is a case where, you know, the media just lied.

00:35:57.000 They just didn't tell the truth because they were trying to scare people.

00:36:00.000 And there was a case, and this is only a few weeks ago now, it's not a pandemic, Of a 14-year-old in Alberta, Canada, who was announced as, you know, this young person died of COVID and the family was furious.

00:36:13.000 And they actually came out that these two sisters said, our brother had terminal brain cancer.

00:36:18.000 He'd been in the hospital since August of 2021.

00:36:21.000 I think he died in October.

00:36:22.000 And he got COVID two days before he died in the hospital.

00:36:26.000 He died of a brain tumor.

00:36:28.000 Don't lie about him.

00:36:29.000 And the chief medical officer for Alberta, Canada, had to acknowledge what she had done.

00:36:35.000 Those are the deaths of people really under 40 and certainly absolutely under 20.

00:36:43.000 And I will say this with certainty because I've reviewed the statistics in Germany.

00:36:47.000 I put this on my stub stack a few days ago since I can no longer tweet things.

00:36:51.000 Germany reported, and Germany's 80 million people and had substantial COVID, not as substantial as the U.S., but substantial COVID. Zero.

00:36:59.000 Zero deaths of healthy people aged 5 to 17 in the first 18 months of the pandemic from COVID. Zero.

00:37:09.000 There are approximately 10 million Germans in that category.

00:37:12.000 Maybe, you know, maybe 20% of them have...

00:37:14.000 Oh, of the 20% who had health problems, there were three deaths in that 5 to 17 age range.

00:37:21.000 Three.

00:37:22.000 So when you hear that COVID is a risk to young people, and certainly to healthy young people, you are being lied to.

00:37:29.000 And again, I don't know why.

00:37:31.000 The two things that are the most sort of conspiracy-making and mystery-making to me in the last few months are why the desperation to vaccinate healthy young people and why the unwillingness to acknowledge natural immunity.

00:37:44.000 Which has also, by the way, been going on since the beginning.

00:37:48.000 You may or may not remember, I think it was in March 2020, maybe it was April, the WHO said, we don't know if antibodies provide protection against COVID going forward.

00:37:59.000 And actually, they were forced to To change that, and who forced them to change it?

00:38:03.000 Bill Gates and the pharma companies, because they knew that, you know, that was essentially saying that vaccines wouldn't work.

00:38:10.000 So the WHO went so far to try to scare people that pharma stepped in.

00:38:16.000 But this idea that natural immunity is not a thing, when all the evidence suggests natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity, is just beyond me.

00:38:25.000 Well, here's another document that I love that you dug up, which is from SAGE. And this is where they say it's entitled Perceived Threat.

00:38:37.000 And it worries that a substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened.

00:38:45.000 It could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic groups.

00:38:50.000 This is a public health crisis.

00:38:52.000 People aren't scared enough because not enough people are dying in their group.

00:38:56.000 And then it says, it gives a solution for this terrible problem.

00:38:59.000 The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent using heart-hitting emotional messaging.

00:39:08.000 Emphasis in the original.

00:39:10.000 And then it says, the authors then go on to say why you needed both positive and negative reinforcement.

00:39:17.000 Communication strategies should provide social approval for desired behaviors.

00:39:22.000 Social disapproval from one's community can play an important role in preventing antisocial behavior.

00:39:29.000 Consideration should be given to use of social disapproval, but with a strong caveat against unwanted negative consequences.

00:39:37.000 I think they just have ignored that caveat pretty much altogether.

00:39:42.000 Yeah, no, they sure have.

00:39:43.000 And look...

00:39:46.000 I don't remember who said it, but somebody said it in just, oh, maybe it was Scott Atlas.

00:39:51.000 The idea that you're intentionally trying to panic people, as Fauci, I think Atlas in his book writes that Fauci said we need to panic people more.

00:39:59.000 It's so wrong and so contrary to what public health has always been, or certainly what it's been in the last couple of decades.

00:40:09.000 Well, I have memos that I can give you from CDC for years on the, you know, they do a flu strategy meeting every couple of years, and they have for years and years, we have the transcripts of those saying we have to drum up fear, you have to exaggerate deaths, you have to I do human interest stories.

00:40:30.000 Anytime you can find somebody who died, you have to get to the local press and inflate that.

00:40:35.000 Let me say something to you.

00:40:40.000 And I still, I will admit, I still have not investigated other vaccines in any meaningful way since we last spoke.

00:40:48.000 So I'm still ignorant.

00:40:49.000 But here's what's clear to me.

00:40:51.000 I'm telling you don't do it because your career will be even more.

00:40:55.000 No, no.

00:40:56.000 At this point, it doesn't matter.

00:40:58.000 Here's what I have sort of realized.

00:41:02.000 Vaccines became, most of pharma sort of ignored vaccines.

00:41:06.000 It was sort of seen as a low-profit business.

00:41:08.000 One shot, you know, what they were into was either a cancer drug that you could charge $100,000 for, or, you know, an antidepressant that you could give, you know, over and over to a huge population for years on end.

00:41:20.000 And at some point in the last 10 to 15 years, that calculation changed.

00:41:24.000 It became clear that, A, you could charge more for vaccine.

00:41:28.000 I can tell you when it changed, 1986, when they took immunity, when they gave them immunity from liability, there was a cold rush at that point, and when we went from At that time, there were three vaccines when I was a kid.

00:41:43.000 There was 11 by then, and we went to 72 doses of 16 vaccines.

00:41:48.000 But I would say it took a little bit longer than that because I'm talking more about the adult vaccines, whether it's a meningitis vaccine or a shingles vaccine or Gardasil, these vaccines that you can charge $100 for, that you don't have liability for, that the government actually is going to Help you advertise.

00:42:06.000 And at some point, the economics of vaccines became quietly much more favorable than they had been.

00:42:14.000 And as you say, yes, there was a gold rush.

00:42:17.000 And then pharma starts to lobby for this.

00:42:23.000 There's also, you know, the big money is actually in the chronic disease epidemic, you know, which you'll find out if you research this.

00:42:32.000 It's directly linked to the vaccines, and that's a $500 billion.

00:42:37.000 What I'm saying is vaccines sort of became this...

00:42:41.000 And there was this group of vaccine fanatics, okay?

00:42:45.000 Nobody outside pharma is a pharmaceutical fanatic.

00:42:49.000 In other words, the doctors all know the companies are problematic.

00:42:53.000 There's no Dorit Rice or Peter Hotez pushing...

00:42:58.000 Drugs as a solution to every problem.

00:43:01.000 The companies will do it, sure, but we're all suspicious.

00:43:04.000 But vaccines have this nonprofit constituency that doesn't exist for drugs, and they have worked with the companies.

00:43:16.000 In this way that no one has sort of realized, or I won't say no one, I didn't realize until COVID that this was happening.

00:43:24.000 As somebody who covered the drug industry in the aughts, my impression was that vaccines were really kind of God's work because there was no money in them.

00:43:33.000 And that clearly stopped being true at some point.

00:43:38.000 Yeah.

00:43:38.000 Let me go back to what you were talking about before and just put a bug in your ear about this.

00:43:45.000 It's something that you can look into.

00:43:47.000 But I believe that the reason that there's this tremendous, or one of the reasons there's this tremendous drive to vaccinate children is because of the liability implications to And if you have an EUA vaccine, You have immunity under the PREP Act and the CARES Act.

00:44:08.000 Oh, nobody can sue you no matter how negligent, no matter how grievous the injury, you can't get sued.

00:44:14.000 But if once you get approved, You no longer have that immunity from liability.

00:44:22.000 Aren't they then going through the vaccine compensation injury program?

00:44:26.000 That is only available to childhood vaccines.

00:44:31.000 It's not available to adult vaccines.

00:44:33.000 You can sue somebody.

00:44:34.000 If you get your shingles vaccine as an adult, you can sue.

00:44:39.000 And I'm involved in litigation on the shingles vaccine.

00:44:42.000 You have to get it approved for children.

00:44:45.000 But once it is approved, A recommended, I guess, a CDC recommendation.

00:44:49.000 It then has liability protection, not just for children, but for adults.

00:44:54.000 So if they can get a recommendation for this vaccine to children, even though there's no reason to give it to children, that's the way for them to get immunity for adults.

00:45:06.000 And this, they may have some other claim that they can get immunity elsewhere, but...

00:45:11.000 I think all the other claims for immunity are going to fall apart, but this immunity is solid if they can get that childhood vaccine.

00:45:18.000 That's interesting.

00:45:19.000 You know, to me, it seems clear that these should not be treated as vaccines, certainly from the point of view of liability, right?

00:45:27.000 I mean, they're not...

00:45:29.000 I mean, they're not offering six months of protection.

00:45:31.000 So these are therapeutics, and we can argue about how good they are, but they are drugs, and they should be treated as such.

00:45:38.000 I suspect if that happened, the companies would stop selling them tomorrow.

00:45:41.000 Yeah, of course.

00:45:43.000 They couldn't sell them for one day if they had to deal with a liability issue.

00:45:49.000 Let's talk about the vaccine for a second, about one aspect of the vaccine, which again, I recommend people to get this book.

00:45:58.000 You can see how dog-eared it is.

00:46:01.000 Hold on, let me make it more presentable.

00:46:05.000 But I really love this book.

00:46:07.000 It is.

00:46:09.000 So, anyway.

00:46:11.000 The cover, by the way, is my favorite part of the whole book.

00:46:14.000 The cover is, that is a picture taken just west of Times Square in April 2020.

00:46:19.000 And that is the middle of the day in Times Square, and it is empty.

00:46:23.000 That's what we did to ourselves.

00:46:24.000 We destroyed our cities for months.

00:46:27.000 We destroyed our city.

00:46:28.000 So another part of this book that I want to clip out the pages and send it to people who are my friends who believe that the vaccines are effective and that they ended the pandemic.

00:46:43.000 You know, when they came here to read that there was a drop off and all this.

00:46:47.000 You do a very, very good takedown of all that, and you look at the data from the most vaccinated countries in the world, which were the earliest vaccinated.

00:46:57.000 You look specifically at Denmark, the UK, and Israel.

00:47:01.000 So tell us what we can learn from the experience of those nations who were early adopters Who are very aggressive, who vaccinated the vast majority of their populations.

00:47:15.000 What happened?

00:47:16.000 So what happens is, it's sort of a story in three acts, and the media only discusses the second act, although they've sort of been forced into talking about the third act.

00:47:25.000 The first act is, there's a spike in cases when you give the first dose.

00:47:30.000 That's clear basically from all the international data.

00:47:33.000 And as I say in the book, it's not entirely clear why, okay?

00:47:36.000 There may be an actual sort of effect of suppressing the immune system.

00:47:40.000 So I got accused of saying, oh, you're saying the vaccine contains the virus.

00:47:45.000 No, I'm not saying that at all.

00:47:46.000 I'm saying that for whatever reason, When you offer people the first dose, you get a spike in cases.

00:47:54.000 And it probably has to do, again, with the temporary suppression of the immune system.

00:47:58.000 It may have to do with the fact that, in some cases, you're opening a nursing home that's been closed for a whole year to people.

00:48:06.000 You know, they are being vaccinated for the, you know, they're being exposed for the first time.

00:48:11.000 But for whatever reason, you get a spike in cases.

00:48:14.000 Okay.

00:48:14.000 So what you see with vaccine efficacy is a story in three acts.

00:48:18.000 And the first act is immediately when you give the first dose, there's a spike in cases.

00:48:23.000 And it appears a spike in, you know, hospitalizations and deaths, too.

00:48:27.000 You saw that in Israel.

00:48:28.000 You saw it in the U.K., And you saw it actually in other countries too.

00:48:32.000 And Gibraltar, which is the most fascinating.

00:48:35.000 Gibraltar in January, yes.

00:48:36.000 There have been places, Vietnam actually, countries that had had no cases once they started their immunization campaign had a spike.

00:48:44.000 And by the way, the companies, when they designed the trials with the sort of approval of the FDA, essentially ignored cases for almost six weeks, and especially in the first two weeks.

00:48:54.000 They just essentially said, we're not going to count those cases.

00:48:58.000 And in the real world, you have to count the cases because people are getting sick and dying.

00:49:01.000 And by the way, people would say, oh, well, he's saying the vaccine actually contains the virus and people are getting sick because they're being injected with it.

00:49:11.000 I was saying nothing of the sort.

00:49:13.000 What I said was, you see this phenomenon, it's probably because there's a temporary immune suppression that's happening, possibly because just the physical act of vaccinating is exposing people.

00:49:23.000 We don't know, but we know it's happening.

00:49:26.000 Okay.

00:49:26.000 Then for a few weeks, so you get this spike, then actually you start to develop some antibodies, cases come down, you get the second dose, and suddenly you have a lot of antibodies, okay?

00:49:39.000 And for a few months, somewhere between two to four months, the vaccines actually work as promised, it seems like.

00:49:47.000 In other words, people have real protection from COVID-19.

00:49:50.000 They have tons of antibodies in their blood, they're not getting infected very frequently, and there's not a lot of transmission.

00:49:57.000 And look, there's people out there who will argue that even that is a statistical artifact, but I don't really believe that.

00:50:02.000 I believe that that is a real phenomenon.

00:50:04.000 That's what I call or came to call the happy vaccine ballot.

00:50:08.000 So there's a period in the Happy Valley, yes.

00:50:12.000 A period in Israel in the spring, in the UK in the spring, later in Europe in sort of the late summer and fall because the Europeans got, you know, started later, even in the US in the mid-summer where cases and infections went down.

00:50:27.000 So the vaccines are actually working.

00:50:29.000 And this led to this incredible overconfidence in the spring about the vaccine.

00:50:34.000 And I talk about this in Pandemia.

00:50:35.000 I mean, the comments people made, including Fauci, people talked about this eradication or certainly elimination of the disease and complete herd immunity, meaning there might be a case here and there.

00:50:48.000 It was still going to exist, but it was not going to be a problem at all.

00:50:53.000 And if you could just get to 70%, 80% vaccination, That would happen.

00:50:58.000 Okay, let me just read Fauci's quote.

00:51:02.000 Certainly it's not going to be a pandemic for a lot longer because I believe the vaccines are going to turn it around.

00:51:08.000 Yes.

00:51:09.000 He said that, but he said even stronger things than that.

00:51:13.000 That was, I think, in November or December of 2020.

00:51:16.000 By April and May of 2021, they were really talking about...

00:51:20.000 This being completely over.

00:51:22.000 And unfortunately, they got overconfident at precisely the wrong time.

00:51:26.000 Because here's what happens.

00:51:28.000 The vaccines cause you to produce this tremendous burst in antibodies, much more than natural infection, which is one reason why there were these people out there saying the vaccines are actually more protective than natural infection.

00:51:40.000 But, unfortunately, your body actually doesn't want the level of antibodies that the vaccines causes it to produce.

00:51:48.000 And very rapidly, you start to clear these antibodies.

00:51:51.000 And meanwhile, there's a whole set of processes that will happen when you're naturally infected that don't seem to recover, and those don't seem to happen with the vaccines.

00:52:02.000 You do not get the same level of memory B cell You do not get the same level of T cell immunity, and you don't get these improvements that happen over time to your B cells and your T cells, where they become better able to recognize this if you're reinfected.

00:52:18.000 You don't get any of these benefits, or you get them in a much more limited way.

00:52:23.000 You also don't even get the same width of antibodies that you do with With natural infection, you don't get any antinucleic capsid antibodies, which is part of the virus that because you're only producing the spike protein when you're vaccinated, you're never going to get those antibodies.

00:52:38.000 So you get this very narrow bump in spike protein antibodies that goes away.

00:52:44.000 And within four to six months of the second dose, so that's six, you know, five to seven months after you've started this cycle, you are losing protection.

00:52:52.000 And you don't lose it slowly, you lose it very rapidly.

00:52:57.000 And so in Israel, over the summer, in the UK, over the summer, in continental Europe right now, and in the US now too, you're seeing massive spikes in cases and in deaths and in hospitalizations.

00:53:12.000 And the only response that the vaccinators had is, we're going to boost you.

00:53:17.000 And all that means is that you're getting a boost in antibodies again, because it is not clear.

00:53:23.000 And if they say otherwise, they are exaggerating their knowledge.

00:53:28.000 It is not clear that you're getting any improvement again in B and T cells.

00:53:32.000 You're getting this improvement in the number of anti-spike protein antibodies.

00:53:38.000 And by the way, that doesn't even seem to work right now against Omicron.

00:53:42.000 Okay, so this is why the vaccine seemed to be almost completely useless against Omicron.

00:53:47.000 But even against Delta, yes, you're gonna get a reduction in cases when you give people the spike, give people that third dose, but it isn't clear how long it's going to last.

00:53:59.000 And Israel just now has announced a fourth dose.

00:54:02.000 So once you understand this, You really are being put on a treadmill with the vaccines.

00:54:10.000 And the only way off, basically, is to accept that you're going to have to let yourself get infected and see if natural immunity is going to be the answer for you, unless you want to be taking these boosters indefinitely.

00:54:25.000 And just one more point, in most of the developed world, and in the U.S. especially, almost all the vaccines are mRNA vaccines.

00:54:34.000 So this is the Pfizer-Moderna technology.

00:54:37.000 In Europe, they use some AstraZeneca, which is a somewhat different technology.

00:54:41.000 But the mRNA vaccines were never designed to be dosed repeatedly.

00:54:48.000 Okay?

00:54:49.000 Moderna initially was going to be a therapeutics company, and it realized that dosing people too often with mRNA led to all kinds of negative side effects.

00:55:01.000 And so that's why Moderna became a vaccine company, because the idea was we're only going to have to give people a couple of doses, and then we're done.

00:55:08.000 But now that's been thrown out the window.

00:55:12.000 So whenever somebody, if these companies tell you they know what the effect of a fourth dose, a fifth dose, a sixth dose, much less, you know, biannual doses for the rest of your life, they don't have a clue what that's going to mean.

00:55:23.000 They couldn't possibly have a clue what that's going to mean, because none of us have done the research.

00:55:29.000 We haven't had time to.

00:55:31.000 And I want to say one more thing.

00:55:33.000 Of all the things people should understand about the vaccines is the clinical trials for the vaccines were blown up.

00:55:41.000 What I mean by that is shortly after the companies got their emergency authorization, they offered the vaccines to essentially everyone who had received a placebo in the clinical trials.

00:55:54.000 And what that means- They obliterated the placebo group.

00:55:57.000 That's right.

00:55:57.000 They obliterated the placebo group.

00:55:59.000 Which is criminal scientific fraud.

00:56:02.000 You know, it is terrible scientifically.

00:56:05.000 Because right now, let's say the vaccines do have real long-term side effects.

00:56:11.000 The only way we would know that cleanly and quickly is by comparing deaths in the placebo or serious events in these big clinical trials in the people who received the vaccine to the people who didn't.

00:56:26.000 That's the whole point of a clinical trial.

00:56:28.000 You match the two sides, and then whatever outcomes differ, you can assume is the result of the treatment.

00:56:35.000 They destroyed our ability to do that.

00:56:38.000 They did it with the FDA's okay.

00:56:40.000 It should never, ever have happened.

00:56:43.000 Thank you for this amazing book.

00:56:47.000 I urge everybody to get it.

00:56:49.000 Give it to your friends.

00:56:50.000 Get this book.

00:56:51.000 After you get my book, get this book.

00:56:53.000 There you go.

00:56:54.000 Everyone's already bought your book.

00:56:59.000 Thank you, Alex.

00:57:00.000 This is great.

00:57:01.000 And, you know, if you ever, I'm sure you come to New York, you know, I'll probably be your last friend in New York State.

00:57:07.000 Let me know.

00:57:08.000 I would love to do it.

00:57:10.000 I'll call you when I come in.

00:57:11.000 All right.

00:57:12.000 Thank you, sir.

00:57:13.000 Thank you so much.

RFK Jr. The Defender - January 10, 2022

Government Hysteria with Alex Berenson

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