SNEAKO - August 23, 2022SNEAKO Hosts 5v1 Quran VS Bible DEBATE
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 28 minutes
Words per Minute
185.88683
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with my brother to talk about religion and his views on it. We talk about the differences between Islam and Christianity, the difference between the Bible and the Quran, and why there is only one correct version of the Bible.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Oh, okay. So was that your pitch for practicing Islam is that it gives you the instructions to how to navigate life in a wise way?
00:00:14.320
That's more so religion, my brother, because it's like, again, if you self-reflect, if you put religion aside, if you self-reflect, you meditate and you disconnect from everything, you start to see, like, okay, the reality of life.
00:00:28.480
And, you know, just everything in general, you become a better person just from this alone.
00:00:34.140
But the religion in and of itself, it was meant to be a guide.
00:00:38.200
Now, there's many religions in this world, and that's when you got to start looking into it as like, okay, well, which one is the one that's actually going to keep me on this proper path?
00:00:46.340
If it's all trying to do the same thing, the right ones, like the ones who are actually, you know, proper, if you actually look into it.
00:00:53.940
Do you believe that there is more than one valid religion?
00:00:56.400
Nah, see, I think that in the end and in the beginning, there will always be just one religion.
00:01:04.460
It all started off this way because it's like the telephone game.
00:01:07.500
You remember as we were kids, we all sat in like a circle, and then we said something to like someone, and they like said it into the other person's ear.
00:01:15.340
And like it got around, and by the time it got to you, like you said bananas, and then by the time it got to you, it was like, I don't know, apples or something like that.
00:01:27.820
Yeah, Chinese whispers, Chinese whispers, right?
00:01:30.020
So that's all God's been trying to do since the beginning of time.
00:01:34.060
God's been trying to send down this message since the beginning, and once the message is altered, that's it, it's game over.
00:01:41.880
God moves on to the next person or the next group of people, and that's why you have different religions.
00:01:45.620
And that's why when you look at different religions, you have some of them that have, or not some of them, but most of them have all pieces of the puzzle.
00:01:53.500
Some of them have more pieces than others, and if you keep looking more into it, you will find that there is one that is still intact that is not altered.
00:02:03.240
It was never altered at any point in time, and that's a slander.
00:02:08.900
That takes me into a good problem that I remember from time.
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Christianity has never been altered at any point in time.
00:02:21.560
You see, if you wrote a book, right, and you go by Musa?
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All right, Musa, if you wrote a book, right, and you wrote it, it's all 100% your language, your thoughts.
00:02:44.120
And then I go ahead and take that book, and then I attempt to translate it in a different language.
00:02:51.800
And in doing so, I project my own opinions onto it, or maybe I make alterations to better fit my culture, or I do all those things.
00:03:00.480
Just because that happened, it doesn't mean the original text that you wrote has changed in any way.
00:03:06.480
And so the argument that we oftentimes hear is that, oh, the Christian text has been altered.
00:03:11.680
I mean, anybody can start an LLC, go by, you know, the King James Version, or rather go and get the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek that the original text was written in, come up with their own translation.
00:03:25.320
It doesn't mean that their Bible is now the Bible.
00:03:29.680
It doesn't mean that the text has been corrupted.
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It's just another false Bible or false, if it has errors, has been introduced into the public.
00:03:41.260
And then, you know, there are various levels of that.
00:03:43.720
You know, you can go take it as far as, like, you know, there may be books like the NIV that has some small deviations here and there, but the overall message is the same.
00:03:54.220
And then you can go all the way to the, like, the Catholic Bible or the Book of Mormon Bible, which is, you know, far, you know, major deviations from the original text.
00:04:03.960
But, you know, you can't now say the original text has been changed.
00:04:12.900
Sorry, Musa, not to cut you off, Habib, but I want you to hold on.
00:04:17.060
The only, I think the point that Muslims would like to make is that you can have 10 misconstrued books, right?
00:04:25.480
I'm not saying there are or aren't 10, but let's say you have 10 misconstrued books.
00:04:30.160
You don't have the original, so you don't know what the original says.
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So following any one of those books or even all of them together, you're still following a basically misconstrued version of the original.
00:04:40.140
Because when you look at it, so it's true that in Christianity, we do not have the original text.
00:04:45.820
But, you know, in my brief research into the religion of Islam, it was known that when Muhammad was dictating the word of God from Allah, scribes were writing on all kinds of articles.
00:04:58.320
You know, everything from bark to parchment to bones, there were inscriptions made on all kinds of things eventually, right?
00:05:06.000
And many of those didn't survive today for you to be able to check the text you have with those original writings.
00:05:13.040
So in both situations, we can see that we've lost some of the original documentation.
00:05:20.640
However, in Christianity, there is almost a beauty in that, because when we look at the original, how do you say, copies that were made by scribes, when you come, when you come, even though none of them are the original, the first handwritten version of it,
00:05:37.480
when you look at the copies that have traveled over, you know, hundreds of miles, once they've been retrieved by modern day, you know, historians, and then aligned, they are all exactly the same.
00:05:51.840
And then, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the name of the Dead Sea, the term Dead Sea Scrolls, right?
00:05:56.640
That was something that was found fairly recently, and it proves the authenticity and the accuracy of, you know, documents that we've had from hundreds of years prior.
00:06:08.440
So there is that, in regards to the legitimacy of scripture, but rather, I have a question based on something that was asked to me earlier about salvation in the faith of Islam.
00:06:24.560
So something about a savior in the religion of Islam was, do you guys have one?
00:06:31.640
Because as far as I'm aware, there is no savior in the religion of Islam.
00:06:35.000
Before you jump into that, Don, just for a second, in Islam, we would have people called Quran Hafiz, right?
00:06:41.620
And what these people would do is that they would memorize, this is ever since the beginning of the Quran, they would have people memorize the Quran off by heart, right?
00:06:53.280
They would have the original scripture memorized, and all through time, as people would try and alter it or create new differences,
00:07:00.080
they would take them to verified Quran Hafiz and verify with them, make sure it's legit, because these people memorize the original scripture off by heart.
00:07:10.400
So all through time, that's how it was legitimized.
00:07:12.960
And that's how even now we have Quran Hafiz, people that know the whole thing off by heart.
00:07:17.020
So if there's ever an illegitimate copy, I mean, I don't, I don't, my argument, see, my argument for, you know, whether or not Islam is valid or not,
00:07:26.300
is not based on whether or not people are able to memorize a text.
00:07:30.300
I mean, you know, just because a text has been, you know, just because, like, the book of Harry Potter has, you know,
00:07:40.380
Sorcerer's Stone hasn't been changed since printing.
00:07:42.560
Like, if you go and buy a copy of the Sorcerer's Stone today and compare it to the original book here.
00:07:53.020
It doesn't make it a holy book just because, you know, supposedly, apparently, it's been perfectly preserved.
00:08:02.100
Yo, Don, I got a question for both you and Sneagle, right?
00:08:05.680
So I have a teacher who's an expert in the Bible and in the Quran.
00:08:34.860
All right, I do have a question for, um, I do have a question for my Muslim brothers
00:08:49.400
Before you even say that, I just want to say that what you were saying is exactly linking
00:08:55.540
to what I was saying, where it's like, it's all pieces of the puzzle.
00:08:59.500
It's all been just God trying to send the message from the beginning.
00:09:03.440
And if you look in the Quran, like, it's affirming the scriptures that came before it.
00:09:09.280
But it's just saying that there were alterations made to it.
00:09:11.940
Now, if one wanted to look at it and say, like, oh, I don't want to cut you off.
00:09:18.100
And I'm saying, like, if someone wanted to look at it and be like, okay, well, um, the
00:09:22.360
Quran or Islam as well as the way that you're saying it, it was written on these things.
00:09:28.920
It's like, okay, would you look at what the Quran is actually just trying to say?
00:09:38.660
It's a guidebook because at the end of the day, hey, as a Christian,
00:09:41.940
you understand as well that this life is temporary.
00:09:44.320
We all, even not Muslims or even non-Christians, not, bro, non-religious people,
00:09:49.040
non-spiritual people understand that this life is temporary.
00:09:52.040
We're going to, we're all going to die at some point.
00:09:54.680
And that's all, that's all religion is trying to do, bro.
00:10:00.880
I would argue that, I would argue that, no, um, they're like, heaven is real.
00:10:12.660
He has a very, you know, strict and simple set of guidelines to not go to hell because
00:10:28.520
And whenever you break a law, there is punishment for that.
00:10:31.540
And so, like in our court, right, of law, if you were to break the laws of God, right, God gave us 10 commandments, right?
00:10:40.840
Within the 10 commandments, there are nine moral commandments that I think everybody, you know, have more or less heard about, right?
00:10:49.460
First commandment, you will have no other God before me.
00:10:56.400
Second commandment, you won't make a graven image, right?
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You won't worship an idol or make a God in your heart, like a version of God that appeases you.
00:11:05.980
Um, third commandment, you know, don't take the Lord's name in vain.
00:11:11.080
Um, fifth commandment, honor your mother and father.
00:11:16.580
Seventh commandment, thou shall not commit adultery.
00:11:25.720
And tenth, uh, you should not covet your neighbor's goods, right?
00:11:35.960
And as a result of breaking the law, we must do the time, do the crime, do the time.
00:11:42.240
It doesn't matter how good of a person you are.
00:11:44.400
It doesn't matter what you've done in this life.
00:11:46.140
If you go and you, I don't know, you accidentally kill somebody drunk driving or you shot someone
00:11:54.200
It doesn't matter how many times you fed the poor or, you know, helped out your moms or whatever.
00:11:59.760
You have to go to life in prison or go to prison for life for doing that crime.
00:12:07.280
You know, the Bible says that we were made in the image of God.
00:12:09.860
The reason why we've made our courts like that is because we're modeling it after the
00:12:17.540
And so, boom, as a result of that, the punishment for breaking his law is eternal separation from
00:12:22.540
God, otherwise known as hell, eternal damnation, suffering unlike anything we could ever imagine.
00:12:30.740
That really would be fair for every single one of us to suffer.
00:12:37.520
However, because the God of the Bible is so kind and merciful and graceful, he has given
00:12:43.420
us all a pathway to redemption so that we may avoid the punishment that we so rightly deserve.
00:12:50.420
And the only way to do that is to have faith in the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who came
00:12:57.180
to earth, a manifestation of God in a human form, 100% God, 100% human, the essence of pure
00:13:07.160
Because in the Bible, it says the wages of sin are death.
00:13:14.040
And so, how could there ever, the only way there could be one sacrifice that could pay
00:13:21.140
everybody's sin debt is for it to be a perfect sacrifice, a perfectly righteous being, but
00:13:29.100
also a being with enough value to cover everybody.
00:13:33.320
And that is why Jesus had to be God in order to pay everyone's debt.
00:13:38.460
Because the potter is always valued more than the pot.
00:13:42.780
The creator is always valued more than the creation.
00:13:45.860
The value of Jesus Christ is more than the entire universe because he created the entire
00:13:52.320
And so, as a result, we now have a pathway to redemption.
00:13:58.360
And that's why the Bible says that you can step before the throne of God boldly because you
00:14:04.240
can know whether or not you're saved, all by having faith in Jesus Christ.
00:14:27.160
I think there's a button with like a little person and a plus.
00:14:30.940
I think you might be able to add them like that.
00:14:33.680
But just while you do that, to answer your question.
00:14:37.080
First, I want to say something about what you just mentioned.
00:14:39.660
And then I do want to answer your question because I know you asked it a few times.
00:14:45.680
I know there's like four and about to be five Muslims and one Christian.
00:14:48.160
So, I do want to be respectful of your time to speak and to be as fair as possible.
00:14:53.460
And I hope, inshallah, you know the brothers will kind of have that same mindset.
00:14:57.360
And I know they do because they're great brothers.
00:14:58.480
So, that kind of postulation about forgiveness and condemnation to hell and all that only exists within Christianity.
00:15:04.800
And it's not something that you can or it's not something that you must presuppose.
00:15:09.480
It's only something that is found in Christianity.
00:15:11.760
So, if you go off the Bible, of course, you're going to believe that because that's what the Bible says.
00:15:20.280
So, I'll pause and wait until he gets to say, I guess, I'm going to say salam.
00:16:11.960
So, you're an expert on the Quran and the Bible.
00:16:14.380
Which is, which one is more accurate to God's teachings?
00:16:30.240
So, if you look at the Bible, are you talking about the Old Testament or the New Testament?
00:16:38.400
So, what's the earliest manuscript you have for the New Testament that is complete?
00:16:52.080
This is something that is unique to Islam, I believe.
00:16:57.100
I do not try to enlighten people about the nature of God, His laws, and the pathway to salvation by talking about Islam, for instance.
00:17:09.260
Because the Bible tells us that His Word is perfect.
00:17:12.220
And it is a perfect tool for breaking the hard heart and bringing them forward to salvation.
00:17:20.160
I don't know anything about the Quran in terms of the oldest manuscript to compare it to, oh, our manuscript, older, or nothing like that.
00:17:36.440
You know, I haven't studied that enough yet to tell you.
00:17:46.140
You're going with it because in one book, you know, it says that his innards were spilt out.
00:17:50.800
And in the other book, it says that he hung himself.
00:17:53.300
But, you know, I've done some brief research into that.
00:17:56.340
And there are theologians who could better explain that it is not a contradiction.
00:18:01.000
Simply put, in my layman's explanation is Judas hung himself.
00:18:05.860
And then afterwards, he fell from whatever he was hanging from.
00:18:12.260
You know, once a human body dies, he starts to be finished.
00:18:15.580
Once a human body starts to die and starts to decompose, you will know that there is a swelling that happens within the abdominal muscles.
00:18:24.300
You know, you can ask any more attention about that.
00:18:32.160
The problem with that explanation is that it mentions headlong.
00:18:49.860
The only way we can do this with any degree of validity or any degree of, like, there being genuine discourse happening,
00:18:58.040
you ask me a question, I do not know the answer to.
00:19:02.660
Just because I don't know the answer doesn't mean there isn't an answer.
00:19:07.120
And so, you don't prove anything because someone who is a novice, right?
00:19:15.700
Someone who's a novice who hasn't had the opportunity to study the Bible inside out.
00:19:21.300
Is everyone on the panel okay with brother asking me a question and then I pulling up an hour-long video
00:19:27.180
and then all of us sitting down here quietly and watching this hour-long video as someone explains the answer to his question?
00:19:46.960
A question was just raised when I got on the stream.
00:19:52.520
And I was just explaining why I believe the Quran is the accurate Word of God.
00:20:03.060
Watch Christian preachers, pastors from different countries that are experts in the Bible.
00:20:07.940
We have three Bible study professors that came out.
00:20:19.800
But you can watch those videos and you can see the answers aren't there.
00:20:45.080
And if you don't mind, let me finish and I'll let you speak as long as you like.
00:20:56.040
Let me finish what I'm saying and then I won't interrupt you.
00:21:01.040
When we talk about Judas, this is a very important issue because a creedal issue has to do with
00:21:05.820
the one that betrayed Jesus, supposedly according to Christianity, then he got crucified.
00:21:24.140
Let me finish and then you can speak as much as you like and I'll stay quiet.
00:21:41.780
When I speak, if you don't mind, out of respect, please let me finish.
00:21:45.500
When I'm finished, you can speak as long as you like.
00:21:48.980
So when we look at Judas' death, the first issue we find is what did you do with the money?
00:21:54.560
In one verse, he threw it away in the temple and walked out.
00:21:58.100
In the other verse, he bought a piece of land with it.
00:22:08.520
If you're hanging and you fall, you don't fall headlong.
00:22:16.000
Here, you have two clear contradictory reports.
00:22:29.260
I have, and you can watch our videos, we have tons of these clear numeric contradictions,
00:22:34.820
the Old Testament, New Testament, ages that don't match, because the earliest manuscripts
00:22:41.420
The earliest complete, semi-complete manuscript is Codex Sinaiticus, which is from the 4th century.
00:22:47.480
That means you have 300 plus years where you don't even have a full manuscript.
00:22:53.580
That's why they're written by different authors.
00:22:55.600
Even the authors, for example, Hebrews, we don't know who wrote it.
00:22:58.900
Even the Gospels are named after people, like the Gospel according to Matthew, not by Matthew.
00:23:10.180
I'm saying I cannot fact-might a single thing you said, right?
00:23:17.100
I don't have a problem with someone with debate or anything like that, but I didn't
00:23:22.860
come on here to debate the history of the Bible.
00:23:29.260
And so I, nothing you say to me right now in regards to these things carry any weight
00:23:35.000
because how do I know where the truth starts, where the truth ends?
00:23:42.880
I'm not here to debate the age of this or the age of that, but I am here.
00:23:48.600
I would rather want to speak about what it is that our religions say, because I find it
00:23:53.960
interesting that you, you, you, the direction that you want to take in order in disqualifying
00:24:01.360
my religion or suggesting that my religion is not the right religion is not by looking
00:24:08.620
at the contents within it, but rather trying to, you know, bring, oh, well, well, about
00:24:14.620
the seventh century and the, and the this and the that it's like, hold on, wait a minute.
00:24:19.760
Why can it, why let's have a conversation about something that I am actually more versed
00:24:25.400
on, which is the merit of the word, which is what is actually said in the Bible.
00:24:30.040
And so I don't know if anything you just said is true at all or accurate.
00:24:34.000
And to be fair, I don't think Sneeko could be, would be able to verify that neither would
00:24:38.800
many of the dudes on this panel, which is why they brought you in instead of saying it
00:24:42.500
have to be a debate on, I just want to hear what he has to say.
00:24:44.720
Apparently he's an expert on the Quran of the Bible.
00:24:46.460
I think you're going on the defensive, but he's not really on the offensive right now.
00:24:49.560
Yeah, no, I have to be, I have to be, I, I, I, I, I'm going to finish.
00:24:56.760
So it's like, no, I'm just saying it's like, um, you know, that's all like, well, what,
00:25:03.380
what was I supposed to, to, to gain from anything you just said?
00:25:08.060
Me, if I, if I can't respond to anything you just said, because these are not things
00:25:14.320
that I've researched, you know what I'm saying?
00:25:18.680
Don, um, again, I just want to be respectful and listen to you.
00:25:22.220
So if you're asking me a question, do you want me to respond to it?
00:25:29.020
My question is, how do you get salvation, salvation in Islam?
00:25:36.800
I didn't come on here to attack the Bible or catch you off guard.
00:25:39.860
I was asked a question when I came on and I was responding to that question.
00:25:45.100
Now, the reason we look at text is because you base your salvation on a message that's
00:25:53.200
If you didn't have the Bible, how would you know Jesus died or was risen or God or not
00:26:01.600
And the facts that I brought to you, you can go home and research.
00:26:15.320
And I do have a contact that is more verse on the Bible.
00:26:19.660
Someone just suggested a great idea that I add.
00:26:25.760
While you're out of my way, he already has to say.
00:26:30.980
Well, the first thing is when you talk about what is Islam's idea of salvation, it's the
00:26:35.580
same salvation that has always been the message of all the prophets, which is you believe in
00:26:42.100
If you look at the 10 commandments, that's what you find.
00:26:43.920
Hear, O Israel, your Lord is one, not three, one.
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And it says in the next commandment, do not worship graven idols.
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Live by the law as best you can and you will be saved.
00:27:01.040
We don't believe that somebody came and died for our sins and we're scot-free just believing.
00:27:06.500
And I don't think you actually believe that either.
00:27:10.180
If you ask about what is the Islamic viewpoint on salvation, here it is.
00:27:18.220
If you claim that you believe in Christianity and you believe in the message of Jesus and
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salvation, where did you get that message from?
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If the Bible you're reading is not accurate, if it was not written by actual disciples,
00:27:39.300
if it was written by anonymous authors with clear contradictory reports, then your source
00:27:47.260
However, far more experienced theologians than me have proved that the Bible has no contradictions.
00:28:01.980
And if you look it up, it clearly mentions, and I've mentioned this in our videos, if
00:28:05.880
you want to see the references, watch our videos, that there are clear contradictions based on
00:28:12.120
This is John MacArthur's own words in his Study Bible.
00:28:15.480
There are clear contradictions based on different viewpoints.
00:28:19.260
John MacArthur says in the introduction of the book of Hebrews that the author is unknown.
00:28:26.120
Well, no, we are aware that the book of Hebrews said there are no contradictions.
00:28:33.560
When I just showed you that the one you mentioned, there's copyist error contradictions.
00:28:45.400
Look up, look up the McCarthy Study Bible, look up the introduction to Hebrews, and see
00:28:53.980
My point, and he may have said that, I don't know.
00:28:57.680
Earlier, earlier, he said there's no contradictions.
00:29:11.240
Can I finish, can I finish, can I say what I'm saying?
00:29:15.500
You may be putting so much time and effort into, you know, researching things in regards
00:29:22.480
to ways to try and make the Bible look illegitimate and all of that.
00:29:27.400
But here's what I know for a fact, is that Christianity is the one true religion.
00:29:49.680
And ultimately, I have complete security in my salvation.
00:30:05.360
Because the Bible says that no man is capable of convincing someone or saving someone.
00:30:27.080
I was almost finished saying what I was saying.
00:30:37.640
Don, do you have someone that's a bit more educated on the topic that you could bring into the call as well?
00:30:53.780
Do you also agree, as the Old Testament mentions, that God knows everything?
00:31:06.740
While he's doing that, I'm going to go pray Maghrib.
00:31:46.260
But of that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, nor the Father alone.
00:31:55.420
And you said God knows everything, and he not knows power.
00:32:08.140
And so in assuming this human state, there were certain limitations that were accepted upon him so that he may come and be the ultimate sacrifice.
00:32:40.480
The limitations that he opposed on himself were his choice because he is God and he was able to do that.
00:32:45.940
He came to the earth so that he may suffer and so that he may experience life exactly as we experience it.
00:32:56.400
The Bible talks about him being tempted, him needing to rest, so that we would be able to look towards him as an example of how we may strive to live our lives.
00:33:09.040
Now, it's a standard we will never reach, but he was a display of what it would look like to live a perfect life.
00:33:17.000
And so in order for him to be able to be that example, he would have to experience all of the limitations that we experience as people.
00:33:25.680
Okay, so Don, let me just clarify this for everybody listening and for you.
00:33:29.340
If you're saying that he was fully God while on earth, that means he has to know everything because you agreed God knows everything.
00:33:42.500
Earlier you said God knows everything and then you said Jesus is God.
00:33:46.680
Now you're changing to saying the Father knows everything, not Jesus.
00:33:57.020
He is the Father, he is the Son, and he is the Holy Spirit.
00:34:11.200
I mean, you made a good point earlier about not cutting each other off, right?
00:34:18.080
Each person has, of the Godhead, has a specific role and purpose in that.
00:34:24.480
And so Jesus came to die for our sins and also to be the mediator to the Father.
00:34:30.240
No one may come to the Father except through me, the Holy Spirit.
00:34:33.900
The Holy Spirit came to dwell within us, to change our character and to be our guide, to be our helper, to give us spiritual discernment.
00:34:42.980
And so the Father, for instance, doesn't reside in all of us.
00:34:47.440
You know, the Father lives within a realm that cannot contain...
00:34:51.240
He lives within a realm or he lives in a state.
00:34:53.940
He exists in a state that is far too large for our, you know, meager universe.
00:35:04.200
He cannot manifest himself in this realm but in a diminished form.
00:35:12.080
That's why he descended on a mountain as a cloud.
00:35:14.600
Because in his eternal fatherly state, it would, for lack of a better word, break the game.
00:35:30.860
It's not a trivial thing that he exists in a trinity.
00:35:40.360
The question here gets to be that you're saying things that are contradictory.
00:35:44.860
If you say they're all equal, that means Jesus, while on earth, if he being fully God, would have full knowledge.
00:35:52.060
If Jesus didn't know the hour and the Father did know the hour, they're no longer equal.
00:36:11.580
You're telling me the limitations or the boundaries or the parameters under which God has to exist.
00:36:22.580
Tell me why an all-powerful, all-knowing being be incapable of manifesting himself in our realm exactly how he sees fit.
00:36:42.380
Because if something is square, it is not a circle.
00:36:48.280
So, if God is fully knowledgeable and all capable and equal in all three forms, then he cannot be ignorant of anything.
00:36:56.980
Because, now, when Jesus didn't know the hour, he obviously had knowledge that he didn't have, the Father did have.
00:37:23.060
So, the problem here gets to be, is when you say that on earth, Jesus was fully God.
00:37:30.040
And you say, according to the Bible, that God knows everything.
00:37:33.860
So, when God doesn't know something, that means like a square circle, he cannot be God.
00:37:39.820
Because, by definition, according to the Bible, God knows everything.
00:37:44.860
And when he doesn't know the hour, he doesn't know everything.
00:37:48.240
So, then you would have to say, Jesus on earth was not fully God.
00:37:53.560
So, you have a contradiction in your core creedal belief.
00:38:00.840
So, I do not have a contradiction because God, Jesus, is not separate from the Father.
00:38:18.740
The Father exists eternally, along with Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
00:38:24.100
So, if God manifests himself as a human in the form of Jesus, and he manifests himself in a way where he doesn't know when the rapture will occur, this does not automatically mean that Jesus is not God.
00:38:42.320
This is the human, this is just a variant of the human limitations that he imposed upon himself, that he took upon himself for his own reason.
00:38:54.600
We are, we are, it is not upon the creation to try and understand why.
00:39:01.380
You're making the mistake of assuming that God could not manifest himself in our world as a human unless he had all of the characteristics that you, a mere human and a part of his creation, seems worthy or seems fit.
00:39:19.760
That is no different than the logic of the atheist or the modern-day spiritual person who says, oh, God, if God was real, he would be like this.
00:39:33.240
Or if God was real, he would not like gay people.
00:39:37.620
You're putting, you're creating your own, and this is breaking the second commandment.
00:39:43.740
You're making a God that can only exist under the rules that you're feeble, and by feeble, I mean like human.
00:39:51.460
We all have feeble brains in comparison to the mind of the Father.
00:40:02.440
So if he chooses to manifest himself in that capacity, then it is not up to us to question.
00:40:08.460
The problem is, Don, your own Bible is the one that makes that box, and you're blaming it on me.
00:40:22.520
And someone in my comment said, God could make a square circle.
00:40:28.280
Because by definition, if you make it into a circle, it's no longer a square.
00:40:32.940
And if you make it into a square, it's no longer a circle.
00:40:35.180
No, but by your definition, that would mean that there is something that God is incapable of doing.
00:40:41.580
Which is contradictory to what it is to mean to be God.
00:40:50.280
How could he be God if there was something he was incapable of doing?
00:40:53.400
Don, Don, could God make a stone heavier than he could lift?
00:40:57.540
Could God make a stone heavier than he could lift?
00:41:11.860
Because in an essence, in a way, if he had chosen to do that, then yeah, he could do that.
00:41:21.100
But he wouldn't necessarily do it in the way that you're imagining.
00:41:30.020
But the very hearers of your head are all numbered.
00:41:35.200
Okay, but the very hearers of your head are all numbered.
00:41:48.120
And he knows what goes on in private as well in public, right?
00:41:53.980
But the very hearers of your head are all numbered.
00:42:00.660
Therefore, everyone who confesses me before men, I will also confess him before my father who is in heaven.
00:42:08.180
But whoever, this is what I'm saying, like, all right.
00:42:11.040
But whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before my father who is in heaven.
00:42:16.680
Do not think that I came to bring priests on earth.
00:42:21.820
For I came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
00:42:29.080
And a man's enemies will be the members of his household.
00:42:33.840
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.
00:42:37.860
And he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
00:42:41.960
And he who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.
00:42:48.260
And he who has lost his life for my sake will find it.
00:43:02.420
Now, understand that according to the Bible, God knows everything.
00:43:09.500
If you look at the MacArthur Bible study guide right now under that verse, he tells you that God is all-knowing.
00:43:18.520
So now the problem gets to be is when you say Jesus didn't know the hour and you say that God knows everything, then that is a contradiction.
00:43:27.600
That doesn't make sense because either you say that while Jesus was on earth, he was no longer God and God the father was superior to him.
00:43:39.160
But if you don't, then the problem gets to be that if you say they're equal and they have the same, then Jesus not knowing the hour and the father knowing the other hour no longer makes them equal.
00:43:51.860
That is not true that again, you're breaking the second commandment by making a God to fit your own parameters by that logic.
00:44:00.020
Just because Jesus got hungry, he can't be God.
00:44:04.460
You're ignoring the very fact that they exist in unity, in unison at the same time.
00:44:09.660
There is not as if when Jesus came to earth, God, the father took a break or was on pause.
00:44:15.220
They all three have existed eternally in perpetuity.
00:44:28.160
The Holy spirit is not the son, but that is how it is set up.
00:44:33.240
It's three persons, one God, and each person has a different purpose in the same way that the father didn't die upon the cross.
00:44:43.800
There are things that there are things that the son.
00:44:47.620
One of them, the only true God or no, they're all part of the true God.
00:45:00.340
If I told you, no, the only true God is the father.
00:45:25.200
This is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
00:45:35.120
Now the father's being called the only true God.
00:45:42.140
They may get to know you, the father, and, not, not the father, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
00:45:52.160
The true God in the Bible, which I just asked you, would you disagree with me?
00:46:04.720
A second ago, I asked you, if I said the father is the only true God, would you disagree with me?
00:46:10.880
Now the Bible in front of you saying that Jesus is not a part of the only true God.
00:46:16.340
It says you get to know you, the only true God.
00:46:24.760
So the verse is saying that the father is the only true God, and Jesus was sent by the only true God, by you, referring to the only true God.
00:46:33.420
Then Jesus is now excluded from that, and that goes against your belief.
00:46:42.880
Wait, and let me just read, because everyone's telling me that you're taking it on my chat, telling me you're taking it out of context.
00:46:53.000
So the highly priestly player, Jesus spoke these things and lifting up his eyes to heaven.
00:46:59.120
Glorify your son, that the son may glorify you, even as you gave him authority over all flesh to do all whom you have given him.
00:47:08.800
If this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
00:47:14.640
I have glorified you on earth, having the accomplished.
00:47:22.040
I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to decide, because I'm trying to decipher the context here.
00:47:30.100
Because, and again, this is, see, I'm, I'm just looking at this as an opportunity to.
00:47:36.080
To get out of the contradiction that you just said.
00:47:39.220
No, no, no, not to get out of the contradiction, but this is giving me an opportunity so that I can better evangelize some Muslims in the future.
00:47:47.300
So I'm very, paying very close attention to the things you're, you're focusing on.
00:47:51.660
Because, and, and something you have to also understand, something you have to also understand is that these are entire books being written.
00:48:02.200
Like, you asked me to jump to the middle of a book.
00:48:14.080
You see, like, you want to jump to the middle of the book.
00:48:17.160
You're not, you know, you're not taking into context the whole, the whole, the whole line.
00:48:44.080
But the issue here is the reason you're not responding to my clear verse that contradicts
00:48:54.420
Since you said I didn't, let me, let me say, let me, let me say what I said.
00:48:58.340
You are projecting, you are projecting meaning onto the verse that is not said.
00:49:04.580
You are saying just because for whatever reason, I don't know where in this verse you feel like
00:49:11.520
you have the liberty to say that this means that Jesus is not a part of the Godhead.
00:49:16.180
Just be, you, you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, you, whom you have said.
00:49:21.540
You read that and I said, you read that and I infer that Jesus Christ is included in that
00:49:27.020
You read it and choose to infer that he is not included in that Godhead.
00:49:33.660
If I told you earlier that if I was to say that the father is the only true God, would
00:49:41.680
Here, Jesus in context is saying the father is the only true God, right?
00:49:47.620
So you are caught here because right before you read the verse, you said that if I was
00:49:53.500
to say that father is the only true God, you would disagree.
00:49:56.600
And when Jesus says the father is the only true God, now you have no response.
00:50:02.660
No, I just gave you my response in case you miss, if you didn't.
00:50:06.840
I didn't understand how Jesus can say to the father, you're the only true God.
00:50:12.320
And earlier when I said, if I said that you would disagree, and now when Jesus says that,
00:50:18.420
Because you are implying, one, this entire book is littered with verses where Jesus is
00:50:30.440
This says that you sent, he says, you are the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have
00:50:38.420
So since, so since when does that mean that, how does that mean that Jesus is saying that
00:50:46.640
Don, you are choosing to, you are choosing to read the scripture in that manner.
00:50:51.720
Don, listen, I asked you earlier, if I was to say the father is the only true God, would
00:51:01.020
The verse here, Jesus clearly tells the father.
00:51:04.680
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't mean it's true.
00:51:14.500
You just, because you keep repeating that I've, I've responded to you the exact same time every
00:51:20.360
And you have not in any logical or meaningful way discredited what I've said.
00:51:25.540
There is nothing in this verse that says that Jesus Christ is not God.
00:51:31.220
You are choosing to, you're choosing to infer that from this verse because of you wanted
00:51:44.000
So if I were to say that the father is the only true God, and Don disagrees with that,
00:51:52.820
And then the Bible, Jesus clearly says to the father, you are the only true God.
00:51:58.220
Do you see where his early contradiction contradicts the Bible?
00:52:02.960
It's either that there's a Trinity or there's not a Trinity.
00:52:06.780
So Don, even if you're going to choose to close your eyes to the fact that you just
00:52:11.140
contradicted your own Bible, doesn't mean that others watching will as well.
00:52:17.100
I made the exact same statement that Jesus makes in the Bible earlier, and you disagreed
00:52:22.160
And when it's in the Bible, now you're trying to jump from it.
00:52:26.420
You heard me make the exact, I use the exact same words.
00:52:29.640
Look, man, I don't need to, if you want to interpret the Bible as such, go right ahead.
00:52:35.060
I am telling you that you are misinterpreting the verse as it is read.
00:52:43.620
And one day when you die and you are in front of the creator, you will have to account for,
00:52:53.700
You cannot explain to me how this, you are assuming, you are assuming that because Jesus
00:53:01.340
said, you are the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent, you are choosing
00:53:06.560
to take the word and, and use it as some kind of separator.
00:53:10.460
In my experience with the English language, and in my experience, whenever I use the word
00:53:14.800
and, it is for the sake of unification, not for the sake of separation.
00:53:23.800
If you want to move on to John, chapter one, first one, go right ahead, man.
00:53:28.120
Before you say that, people in the chat are saying that I'm setting you up and it's a
00:53:35.240
I have never, I've never heard of your teaching before, but I'm enjoying listening to you talk.
00:53:41.360
I thought this would be a good conversation, but this was not.
00:53:44.300
And Don, you're willing to, I'm willing to let you bring in a Christian historian right
00:53:53.200
But yeah, can I jump in really quickly here, Shaykh?
00:53:55.840
So firstly, I think Don and Shaykh Uthman are the only two talking.
00:53:59.540
The other, you know, five of us have been relatively silent.
00:54:04.040
So Don, just for your kind of context, Jesus didn't speak English.
00:54:08.080
So there's no point talking about English, but what is used is Greek.
00:54:11.560
He didn't speak Greek, but that's what's used in the manuscripts.
00:54:19.700
Theon is actually the possessive, meaning that it only belongs to this person.
00:54:24.260
So that's the difference between saying that, you know, I'm an owner versus I'm the owner,
00:54:35.800
Because I actually have the Greek, a Greek translator right here.
00:54:39.060
So which word in particular were you, which word, which English word were you translating?
00:54:49.840
Meaning that when he says the father is theon and the only true God, theon is possessive,
00:54:58.380
And even if you want it to, for some reason, even though it goes against the grammar, you
00:55:02.320
want it to include Jesus in that because he says, and there's no Holy Spirit in that.
00:55:06.000
So at the very best, even if you kind of go against the grammar there, and I'm not a Greek
00:55:11.260
expert, you know, may I offer this then may I offer this?
00:55:16.820
Cause there's a perspective that, um, I don't think you guys are taking into account and,
00:55:22.560
and I'm actually, and it's inspired by the fact that you brought up that the Holy Spirit
00:55:26.900
So if you understand this is under the premise that you understand that Jesus is a part of
00:55:36.720
Understand that the context in which that these verses were being preached, what Jesus
00:55:42.320
They were in a place filled with pagan religions, filled with people worshiping other gods.
00:55:47.860
And so when Jesus is points to the father, when he's talking to the father, he is not
00:55:56.560
He is saying that this God, which I am a part of.
00:56:00.400
And again, if you want to go back to this very, if you want to, no, if you want to say
00:56:06.040
that again, you added into the verse, there is no, I'm a part of, you just added that into
00:56:10.820
No, but I'm, no, what I am saying is that we're taking the context.
00:56:17.080
If it's already been established by Jesus multiple times in the book leading up to now
00:56:21.980
that I am, I am in the father, the father is in me.
00:56:25.860
If you've seen the father, you have seen the, if you've seen me, you've seen the father.
00:56:29.240
If he's multiple times up on this point, hammered home that I am God and God and I are, there's
00:56:42.180
And then there's the Holy spirit, which he goes on to speak about in, I believe chapter
00:56:47.940
The point is when he's doing that, he's saying the God of those people over there, that is
00:56:54.120
When he's pointing to other gods, that is not the true God.
00:56:56.500
When he points to the father, he's saying this is the true God.
00:57:04.540
When he says, you are the only true God, he's not saying about other people or other
00:57:10.280
And then he says, and Jesus crime, who you sent.
00:57:26.600
No, you are, because you're saying that and means that he is separating himself.
00:57:37.020
How do you get to the conclusion by that sentence that they are separate?
00:57:47.560
All I said was, I asked you, and it's recorded, you can rewind it if you like.
00:57:54.080
If I was to say the Father is the only true God, would you agree?
00:57:58.580
I didn't say anything about Jesus being a part of him, not being a part of him, but nothing.
00:58:06.660
I understood your question that you were saying that if you could show me a verse, if you could show me a verse.
00:58:14.820
When I said those exact same words, you disagreed.
00:58:20.800
When Jesus spoke this exact same word, according to you, I don't even believe in the Bible.
00:58:34.300
Bro, you've never done that once when any of them cut me off.
00:58:47.220
I literally just want to hear what he has to say.
00:59:00.260
So the issue that gets to be is when I made a statement, the exact same statement that's in the Bible, exact same words.
00:59:22.480
We were just having a conversation about the Trinity, right?
00:59:29.020
The only point I was making was that all three are part of the Trinity.
00:59:46.140
I said, if I was to say, please remember my words.
00:59:49.560
If I was to say that the Father is the only true God, would you agree?
01:00:07.720
When you're ready to become Muslim, give me a challah.
01:00:10.140
And Don, when you go through researching the Bible and the studies and the contradictions,
01:00:14.320
and you're ready to become Muslim, give me a call.
01:00:18.000
As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
01:00:20.480
As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
01:00:29.740
I think you feel like you're being manipulated because he's...
01:00:35.240
The point we're making about the Trinity is that it's three gods in one.
01:00:42.820
Like, I wanted to hear what he had to say, and you weren't giving him a fair chance to speak.
01:00:46.080
You're interrupting me now just like how you were interrupting him.
01:00:48.800
Yeah, bro, because he said the same three times.
01:00:51.080
You want him to hear him say the same thing seven times, bro?
01:00:59.340
And then he just keeps repeating it over and over again.
01:01:01.920
And then he's trying to move on and say, see, I caught you in a contradiction without addressing the fact that that verse does not say that Jesus Christ is not God.
01:01:13.860
And so then when I try to press him further to get clarity, right, all of a sudden he's like, oh, no, I wasn't saying that, you know, there was a verse where he was saying Jesus wasn't God.
01:01:23.280
And so what he's trying to do is get me into a parlor trick in regards to semantics when, well, the essence of-
01:01:33.540
Let him finish the sentence, and then you can respond with that.
01:01:36.100
But I didn't even get to fully hear what he had to say, and I was interested because he seems like a religious expert.
01:01:42.100
I understand that you have a lot of conviction in what you believe in, but you have to give a fair place to hear both sides.
01:01:46.700
I know that you believe that the Bible is everything, but this is my stream, too.
01:01:50.880
Like, I want to hear both sides of the discussion, and I know, like, this is not like a Bible stream.
01:01:56.840
It's a place to have fair debate, and what you were doing right now was not fair debate.
01:02:00.500
Interrupting him like that is not the proper way to have a conversation.
01:02:10.680
He was going off the things that you were saying about the Trinity and about how-
01:02:19.140
it might be better if you find a scholar that you like, maybe someone, or if you know any,
01:02:24.520
We'll try and set up a date, and maybe you can get someone that you trust that can perceive.
01:02:31.880
Because I'll be honest, right, having five of us.
01:02:36.280
I didn't have a problem with someone who knew more than me in terms of like, oh,
01:02:45.960
And so he caught me in a trap, not a contradiction.
01:02:49.600
He caught me in a semantic trap where he was, we were speaking, right?
01:03:00.040
And so he brings up this verse, right, to try and what?
01:03:07.180
But as he words his question in a very specific way, as if to say that this verse, right,
01:03:13.700
if I can find you a verse that proves that Jesus is not God, that the Holy Spirit is not God,
01:03:19.480
that there is only one true God, then you would have to admit that there is a problem with the Bible.
01:03:27.300
This verse does not in any essence, any way, say that Jesus is not God.
01:03:31.660
And then what he's trying to figure out, fixate on, he's fixating on the three words,
01:03:41.180
But this verse in no way takes away from Jesus is God, who in no way proves that Jesus is not God.
01:03:51.480
Can I, I think, I think I'll make one point on this.
01:03:54.680
If no one has anything else to say, and then we can move on from it, I think he's just going back and forth.
01:03:59.880
Before, before you go on, I just, I want to let y'all know, man.
01:04:12.720
Like, y'all, I love y'all for the sake of God, but I got to go.
01:04:16.240
I got to hit the night prayer and get some sleep, so.
01:04:25.660
By the way, man, I just want you to know that even though it started to get, like, real heated,
01:04:37.900
Yeah, bro, I have no ill feelings towards anybody here on this panel, but this dude,
01:04:42.960
I really do feel like he was implementing some snake tactics.
01:04:50.660
You say this a lot even when I had Luke Belmar on, you go back and forth, and when you feel
01:04:53.860
like they're doing snake tactics, you feel like it's justified to interrupt them and not
01:04:57.700
let them finish their point because you see the cut, but that's not a fair way to have
01:05:02.700
That's not the right word, but it's not pleasing to listen to going back and forth like that.
01:05:07.540
You've done that before when you think that somebody's a grifter, but I think he was coming
01:05:11.320
from a genuine place, and I want to have him on the stream again, Faye, if I could have
01:05:16.900
Yeah, like we'll do it with the setup and everything.
01:05:20.140
Don, I think that you should have like a Christian scholar on.
01:05:25.160
A lot of people in my chat are saying L friend, L friend.
01:05:27.400
Once again, I didn't even know who this guy was.
01:05:31.540
I initially started the stream just to talk with the Three Muslims channel to talk about
01:05:35.280
like the hit piece that went out about me disrespecting Islam.
01:05:38.860
This turned into a Christian-Islam comparison, but this is not what the initial point of the
01:05:47.240
I do feel like you low-key, this is low-key what you wanted, bro.
01:06:04.800
It's not, it's not, it's not, it's, it's like, yeah, bro, it's good, bro.
01:06:11.400
Yeah, on our YouTube channel, the Three Muslims, all we want to do is bring on educated people,
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not people that are wafflers, not people that deal with contradictions.
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And we like learned people, not in just one religion, but in multiple religions.
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And all I wanted to do was bring on Sheikh Huthman and just hear him out.
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We weren't even, you're saying it's a setup, but we were not even talking.
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Bro, that dude did not come on here having a genuine conversation, bro.
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He came on here, he was employing, like, he was, he was not having a genuine conversation.
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He did not want, and it looks like how I asked you, since, since, because every time, oh, no,
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you got you, oh, you got you, that's you the whole time.
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Bro, the whole, every time, oh, no, now you got you, you got contradictions.
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He asked me, no, he, I didn't say, I never said he got you.
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Since you, can you please explain to me how John.
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Verse 17, chapter 17, verse 3, explains that Jesus Christ is not God.
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I, that's, that's never, that's the point he was making.
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I think that that, um, Sheikh Uthman, I think he's definitely more educated on his religion
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So that's why I'm saying, don't you think it would be better if he was to bring on a more
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I just think he knows his religion better than, you know, yours.
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But I also think he knows Christianity better too.
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The issue is, can we understand this one verse and what it means?
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And that's why I kept cutting him off because he kept, he kept trying to act as if I conceded
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And my argument kept being, no, you have not in any way shown me how chapter 17, verse 3
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of the book of John is proof that Jesus Christ is not a part of the Godhead.
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Because when I tried to push back on that, cause he wanted to move on, trying to act as
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if I conceded that you kept, you kept defending him.
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Does it sound like he contradicted himself with the Trinity?
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Because you were saying that the God, God is all one person at the same time.
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But at the same time, Jesus said, father is all knowing.
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And that sounds like a contradicted to me because if Jesus, if Jesus was a person, then he's
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He was asking about, we were talking about John 17, verse 3.
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For what I just said, because you started up the conversation.
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You said you started up the conversation by the Trinity means that God is all these people.
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And then you also said that Jesus is not Jesus as a person and Jesus looked up to father
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Other people, am I, am I being disingenuine right now?
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I'm saying that that does not address at all the verse that we were talking about.
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The verse that he tried to build his argument on.
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The fact that you're not even addressing that verse is my point.
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Yo, listen, y'all ever had some French brochet?
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If you guys don't feel like saying, but I want to break this down now.
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This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
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How does that verse separate Jesus Christ from the Godhead?
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I thought he was talking about the fact that Jesus said God is all-knowing.
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I mean, there may be a verse where he has said that the Father knows all things.
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That's what I think is a contradiction in the Bible.
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If there's three of them, and then Jesus also says Father is all-knowing, then he's all-knowing, and he's a person.
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I think it's separate from that specific Bible verse that you're bringing up right now.
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And that specific one, all right, so we can address that.
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One, so you see my issue with this verse, how this verse in no way separates Jesus from the Godhead.
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Maybe that verse, but you're also saying that there's other verses that say that.
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What I, you asked me if God is all-knowing, right?
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You asked me, is there a verse where Jesus specifically says the Father is all-knowing?
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He may, he may not, but either way, we know he is.
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The Bible definitely says that for sure, that the Father is all-knowing.
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And to my, what I was trying to explain to you, and what I was trying to explain earlier, how the Trinity is, Jesus is not the Father.
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But don't you see the contradiction if you're saying that they're all the same, but also Jesus is not the Father?
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I, that's how, I remember earlier in the call, you said that they all, they're three in one.
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If God requires parts, then God would be incomplete without parts, correct?
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No, and so here, again, is an example of breaking the second commandment.
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You're deciding the jurisdictions that, and the characteristics that God has to have.
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You're saying that, oh, God could only exist in this capacity, in this form.
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He's chosen to manifest himself in the form of a human as Jesus Christ here.
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And this is the verse I was trying to get him to go to, because this is the thing that
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his only argument against the Bible is trying to misinterpret verses to try and say that
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But I'm sure he's read the Bible and he knows exactly what John chapter one, verse one says,
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which is where I was trying to go, where it says in the beginning was the word and the
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And then when you go down a little bit further, it says, and then the word became flesh and
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And so that's how we know that Jesus in this instance was the word.
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How about in two days or three days we could do that?
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It could be a healthy conversation about the differences between the Bible and the Quran.
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I did not come on here to have a debate between Christianity.
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I, I didn't bring bro on here to try and question me about, um, Oh, what about this?
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He came on to try and prove that the Bible is flawed.
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He was going to do that regardless of whether he was here or not.
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Don, I came on here to genuinely learn and get the, because that's a criticism.
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All he tried to do was to take stuff out of context, out of the Bible.
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All he tried to do was spin the Bible and try to say, oh, there are contradictions there and here.
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Try to, to undermine Islam saying, oh, look, what about this verse in the Quran and this
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verse in the Quran and this, all I, I mean, I don't know if you want me, but like, I brought
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this before in the last stream that we talked about religion and you got angry at me for
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saying it on stream, but I already said it, but you, you, you did tell me, and I don't
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want you to get mad at me or call me a snake, but you did say that Islam is a false religion.
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I stand by that, but that, why, why, what he brought that up.
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If I got mad at you in the context of, we were talking to a Muslim and I, my goal is
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My only goal in doing any of this is spreading the gospel.
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And it is not wise to try and spread the gospel to someone after you've insulted them about
01:16:36.540
But Don, so you came on here to question Islam.
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You said that you, you, you claimed Islam to be false.
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And then number two, you were saying that, uh, what I was doing was talking about the Bible
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and, and how in, in the Bible, there are bold face contradictions that we talked about,
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You said that guy was twisting things out of context and you're saying that I'm breaking
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I don't know the commandments, but you're saying I was going against something.
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If God wanted the clear cut message to be in the Bible, why would there be logical
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fallacies that I have to accept with blind faith?
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So, all right, let's just look at the situation that just happened, right?
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And it's a way that takes that verse out of the context of the greater book of John, right?
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He chooses to interpret the word and to somehow mean a separation, which is not how, well,
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how the word and is ever used in language, period, one.
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And so these are, this is an example of, if that is supposed to be an example of a contradiction,
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I asked you a question that if God has three parts, this makes him contingent or dependent
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upon on these three parts, how does that make him unlimited, all-powerful, all-knowing?
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And when I asked you this, you said you're breaking a commandment.
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And when I asked you that, I was like, okay, so if something logically doesn't make sense,
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why would I have to accept that for me to get the message from God though?
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So you're saying just because you don't understand why God chose to do something.
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And you're saying if you, if you use that way of thinking, which transcends God's way,
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But I'm saying if God chose a simple message, why would he choose something that is illogical?
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If God is all-powerful, it shouldn't depend on three parts.
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Because by definition, without one part, it's no longer complete.
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Wait, so it's not that it's dependent on three parts.
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It's that it's a fact that he exists in three parts.
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And so it's not like you're saying it as if that is somehow God having a weakness.
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Like, and this is why I say it's breaking the second commandment to say that that's not okay.
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And just because it's not how you would do it if you designed a God,
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You're saying, yeah, Jesus Christ, the son, died on the cross for our sins.
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The same Bible that says that the God and Jesus are separate.
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So the Bible does not in any point say that Jesus is not God.
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There is not a single verse in the Bible that says Jesus is not God.
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I mean, it's just that God exists in the capacity that he exists in precisely because that's how he does.
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Because, you know, it's like, I don't, I'm not.
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So your problem is that God manifested himself as a human.
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Because if God is perfect, why would he have to manifest himself as something imperfect?
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Something that eats, something that defecates, something that gets hungry, something that dies.
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If Jesus Christ, which we believe is a prophet, by the way, so peace be upon him.
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If he came into existence, meaning he was born, well documented, that cannot be all eternal.
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So the problem is, is that he did something that you don't think he would do.
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Like all we as Muslims believe, TLDR for anyone watching is just, here's God and here is everyone else.
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Like there is no, there's nothing even close to that.
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Jesus Christ is a prophet in our religion, but it's not God.
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Hey, Chad, you're asking me to add Cassidy Campbell.
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He was trying to call me earlier, but I was in a conversation with Sneeko.
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And to answer your question, and what's your name, brother?
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So, who are we to say, to tell God that he can't manifest himself as a human being?
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But I'm asking, what's the proof for that, though?
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I mean, the Bible, and the acts that he did, and the 500, and the 500, God is perfect.
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But then saying otherwise, via the sun, goes against that.
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And can I, can I add someone who I think would probably offer a lot to this conversation then?
01:23:20.460
And, yeah, just to answer your question, again, you're...
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The way I'm understanding it is your problem is that you think it's beneath God for him to manifest himself as a human.
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I'm saying, how I'm understanding this is you believe that it is beneath God to manifest himself as a human being.
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According to the traits that God has described himself with in the said book that you're mentioning.
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And what are those traits that says that God...
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It's a contradiction when you're saying a part of that can lose these qualities because then it's no longer God.
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He chooses to come to earth in a form in which he is not in his entire fatherhood, fatherly state.
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One, the very essence of God means you cannot question his decision.
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And also, it is incorrect to think of it as Jesus is not God, is not the father become human.
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In the sense of like, they all three exist eternally from the beginning of time till the end of time.
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Do you feel to our rational faculties as mankind?
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Like, shouldn't it be something that doesn't contradict itself, though?
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Like, if it's easily palatable for like, let's say, today's skeptic or today's atheist or today's person that chooses blind science over religion, right?
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Which I'm not, by the way, because I'm not an atheist.
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I'm a skeptic, but I'm still a believer in Islam, right?
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But I choose to like, question everything before I make that informed decision, right?
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Doesn't it seem logical that if God wanted you to accept the message, that it's something that makes sense?
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It makes perfect sense that a being that is unbound by time, space, energy, matter...
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Let me try to word this differently for you, Don.
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Let's say, for example, one of the qualities that makes God is that he is, what, omnipresent, right?
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Now, let's say there's all these things that make up God, right?
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When he turns himself into something that is no longer eternal, he no longer fits the...
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Oh, I no longer fits, like, the categories as to what makes God.
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He doesn't fit the requirements because the requirements is the four omnis, and now he's
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Now, just because of that alone, he is no longer in a position where he can even call himself
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He's lost one of the qualities that makes up God.
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And bro, just slight correction, we as Muslims don't believe God to be omnipresent.
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All right, so let me offer a perspective from that.
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One, the Father never steps off of his throne at any point in time when Jesus is on earth
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So, them all being one, them all being connected, there's never a point where the Father dies.
01:27:02.800
Also, Jesus' earthly body dies, but the, you know...
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Okay, so we as Muslims also don't believe in that.
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All right, and so that's an interesting path to go down maybe in a future conversation
01:27:24.640
I want to continue on my stream, but I think we should do this another time with an expert
01:27:28.900
Don, I didn't want you to feel like you were being attacked.
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You know, maybe we can talk about it off stream, but...
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Don, bro, there were times in my life, bro, I were depressed.
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I was watching your videos, and I put a smile on my face.
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And I have too much love for you and too much respect for you
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that when I see you making claims that Islam is false,
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that I at least want to give it a shot to pick at your brain
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I'm not trying to spark some beef or anything like that.
01:28:26.900
No, yeah, I don't have a problem with anybody on this panel.