SNEAKO - SNEAKO Hosts 5v1 Quran VS Bible DEBATE

00:00:00.000 Oh, okay. So was that your pitch for practicing Islam is that it gives you the instructions to how to navigate life in a wise way?

00:00:14.320 That's more so religion, my brother, because it's like, again, if you self-reflect, if you put religion aside, if you self-reflect, you meditate and you disconnect from everything, you start to see, like, okay, the reality of life.

00:00:28.480 And, you know, just everything in general, you become a better person just from this alone.

00:00:34.140 But the religion in and of itself, it was meant to be a guide.

00:00:38.200 Now, there's many religions in this world, and that's when you got to start looking into it as like, okay, well, which one is the one that's actually going to keep me on this proper path?

00:00:46.340 If it's all trying to do the same thing, the right ones, like the ones who are actually, you know, proper, if you actually look into it.

00:00:53.940 Do you believe that there is more than one valid religion?

00:00:56.400 Nah, see, I think that in the end and in the beginning, there will always be just one religion.

00:01:04.460 It all started off this way because it's like the telephone game.

00:01:07.500 You remember as we were kids, we all sat in like a circle, and then we said something to like someone, and they like said it into the other person's ear.

00:01:15.340 And like it got around, and by the time it got to you, like you said bananas, and then by the time it got to you, it was like, I don't know, apples or something like that.

00:01:23.880 Yeah, no, I played that game growing up.

00:01:27.820 Yeah, Chinese whispers, Chinese whispers, right?

00:01:30.020 So that's all God's been trying to do since the beginning of time.

00:01:32.960 It's a telephone game.

00:01:34.060 God's been trying to send down this message since the beginning, and once the message is altered, that's it, it's game over.

00:01:41.880 God moves on to the next person or the next group of people, and that's why you have different religions. 0.96

00:01:45.620 And that's why when you look at different religions, you have some of them that have, or not some of them, but most of them have all pieces of the puzzle.

00:01:53.500 Some of them have more pieces than others, and if you keep looking more into it, you will find that there is one that is still intact that is not altered.

00:02:03.240 It was never altered at any point in time, and that's a slander.

00:02:08.900 That takes me into a good problem that I remember from time.

00:02:11.600 Christianity has never been altered at any point in time.

00:02:14.120 On the different versions of the Bible, Don.

00:02:17.060 I remember reading a tweet.

00:02:19.340 There's only one version of the Bible.

00:02:21.560 You see, if you wrote a book, right, and you go by Musa?

00:02:28.240 Musa.

00:02:28.920 My name's Musa.

00:02:30.020 Musa.

00:02:30.840 Musa, okay.

00:02:32.020 So Musa, right? 0.78

00:02:33.340 Yeah.

00:02:33.980 All right, Musa, if you wrote a book, right, and you wrote it, it's all 100% your language, your thoughts.

00:02:42.240 It's exactly how you want it.

00:02:44.120 And then I go ahead and take that book, and then I attempt to translate it in a different language.

00:02:51.800 And in doing so, I project my own opinions onto it, or maybe I make alterations to better fit my culture, or I do all those things.

00:03:00.480 Just because that happened, it doesn't mean the original text that you wrote has changed in any way.

00:03:06.480 And so the argument that we oftentimes hear is that, oh, the Christian text has been altered.

00:03:11.680 I mean, anybody can start an LLC, go by, you know, the King James Version, or rather go and get the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek that the original text was written in, come up with their own translation.

00:03:25.320 It doesn't mean that their Bible is now the Bible.

00:03:29.680 It doesn't mean that the text has been corrupted.

00:03:32.660 It's just another form of false doctrine.

00:03:35.580 It's just another false Bible or false, if it has errors, has been introduced into the public.

00:03:41.260 And then, you know, there are various levels of that.

00:03:43.720 You know, you can go take it as far as, like, you know, there may be books like the NIV that has some small deviations here and there, but the overall message is the same.

00:03:54.220 And then you can go all the way to the, like, the Catholic Bible or the Book of Mormon Bible, which is, you know, far, you know, major deviations from the original text.

00:04:03.960 But, you know, you can't now say the original text has been changed.

00:04:08.400 It hasn't.

00:04:09.500 I agree 100% with that.

00:04:12.900 Sorry, Musa, not to cut you off, Habib, but I want you to hold on.

00:04:15.500 I completely agree with that.

00:04:17.060 The only, I think the point that Muslims would like to make is that you can have 10 misconstrued books, right? 1.00

00:04:25.480 I'm not saying there are or aren't 10, but let's say you have 10 misconstrued books.

00:04:28.740 None of them are the original.

00:04:30.160 You don't have the original, so you don't know what the original says.

00:04:32.200 So following any one of those books or even all of them together, you're still following a basically misconstrued version of the original.

00:04:40.140 Because when you look at it, so it's true that in Christianity, we do not have the original text.

00:04:45.820 But, you know, in my brief research into the religion of Islam, it was known that when Muhammad was dictating the word of God from Allah, scribes were writing on all kinds of articles.

00:04:58.320 You know, everything from bark to parchment to bones, there were inscriptions made on all kinds of things eventually, right?

00:05:06.000 And many of those didn't survive today for you to be able to check the text you have with those original writings.

00:05:13.040 So in both situations, we can see that we've lost some of the original documentation.

00:05:20.640 However, in Christianity, there is almost a beauty in that, because when we look at the original, how do you say, copies that were made by scribes, when you come, when you come, even though none of them are the original, the first handwritten version of it,

00:05:37.480 when you look at the copies that have traveled over, you know, hundreds of miles, once they've been retrieved by modern day, you know, historians, and then aligned, they are all exactly the same.

00:05:51.840 And then, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of the name of the Dead Sea, the term Dead Sea Scrolls, right?

00:05:56.640 That was something that was found fairly recently, and it proves the authenticity and the accuracy of, you know, documents that we've had from hundreds of years prior.

00:06:08.440 So there is that, in regards to the legitimacy of scripture, but rather, I have a question based on something that was asked to me earlier about salvation in the faith of Islam.

00:06:24.560 So something about a savior in the religion of Islam was, do you guys have one?

00:06:31.640 Because as far as I'm aware, there is no savior in the religion of Islam. 0.88

00:06:35.000 Before you jump into that, Don, just for a second, in Islam, we would have people called Quran Hafiz, right?

00:06:41.620 And what these people would do is that they would memorize, this is ever since the beginning of the Quran, they would have people memorize the Quran off by heart, right?

00:06:53.280 They would have the original scripture memorized, and all through time, as people would try and alter it or create new differences,

00:07:00.080 they would take them to verified Quran Hafiz and verify with them, make sure it's legit, because these people memorize the original scripture off by heart.

00:07:09.740 Okay.

00:07:10.400 So all through time, that's how it was legitimized.

00:07:12.960 And that's how even now we have Quran Hafiz, people that know the whole thing off by heart. 0.65

00:07:17.020 So if there's ever an illegitimate copy, I mean, I don't, I don't, my argument, see, my argument for, you know, whether or not Islam is valid or not, 0.95

00:07:26.300 is not based on whether or not people are able to memorize a text.

00:07:30.300 I mean, you know, just because a text has been, you know, just because, like, the book of Harry Potter has, you know,

00:07:40.380 Sorcerer's Stone hasn't been changed since printing.

00:07:42.560 Like, if you go and buy a copy of the Sorcerer's Stone today and compare it to the original book here.

00:07:46.760 No, it's called the Philosopher's Stone.

00:07:49.100 Yeah, or whatever, whatever you call it.

00:07:51.820 Different versions.

00:07:53.020 It doesn't make it a holy book just because, you know, supposedly, apparently, it's been perfectly preserved.

00:08:00.280 Yeah.

00:08:02.100 Yo, Don, I got a question for both you and Sneagle, right?

00:08:05.680 So I have a teacher who's an expert in the Bible and in the Quran.

00:08:09.380 You guys mind if I add him on the stream?

00:08:10.600 Um, sure.

00:08:13.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:13.760 God, yeah.

00:08:14.900 I'll add him right now.

00:08:16.940 He's ready.

00:08:17.520 And I have a question for the both of you.

00:08:18.880 Who would win in a boxing match?

00:08:20.760 Muhammad or Jesus? 0.89

00:08:23.340 What?

00:08:24.260 They're brothers.

00:08:25.040 They would not fight each other, bro.

00:08:26.200 Yeah, they wouldn't fight each other.

00:08:26.980 Say they have to to fight it out.

00:08:29.040 I've got prophets, bro. 1.00

00:08:30.260 Fuck the law. 1.00

00:08:30.920 They'll be in front of them. 1.00

00:08:31.940 Nah, they...

00:08:32.460 We can hear.

00:08:33.260 Jesus got to ask, though.

00:08:34.360 Jesus will.

00:08:34.860 All right, I do have a question for, um, I do have a question for my Muslim brothers

00:08:40.740 on the panel.

00:08:41.700 So how do you go to, how do you go to heaven?

00:08:46.820 Hold up, bro.

00:08:48.940 Hold up.

00:08:49.400 Before you even say that, I just want to say that what you were saying is exactly linking

00:08:55.540 to what I was saying, where it's like, it's all pieces of the puzzle.

00:08:59.500 It's all been just God trying to send the message from the beginning.

00:09:03.440 And if you look in the Quran, like, it's affirming the scriptures that came before it.

00:09:09.280 But it's just saying that there were alterations made to it.

00:09:11.940 Now, if one wanted to look at it and say, like, oh, I don't want to cut you off.

00:09:16.520 Keep going.

00:09:17.620 Yeah.

00:09:18.100 And I'm saying, like, if someone wanted to look at it and be like, okay, well, um, the

00:09:22.360 Quran or Islam as well as the way that you're saying it, it was written on these things.

00:09:27.520 So how do we know this, this and that?

00:09:28.920 It's like, okay, would you look at what the Quran is actually just trying to say?

00:09:33.200 It's just trying to be a reminder.

00:09:35.200 And it goes back to what I said.

00:09:36.380 It's like, it's, it's a guidebook.

00:09:38.660 It's a guidebook because at the end of the day, hey, as a Christian,

00:09:41.940 you understand as well that this life is temporary.

00:09:44.320 We all, even not Muslims or even non-Christians, not, bro, non-religious people, 0.96

00:09:49.040 non-spiritual people understand that this life is temporary.

00:09:52.040 We're going to, we're all going to die at some point.

00:09:54.540 Right. 0.83

00:09:54.680 And that's all, that's all religion is trying to do, bro.

00:09:57.820 Religion is trying to create a guideline.

00:10:00.880 I would argue that, I would argue that, no, um, they're like, heaven is real.

00:10:09.900 Hell is real.

00:10:10.780 Judgment is real.

00:10:11.580 The creator is real.

00:10:12.660 He has a very, you know, strict and simple set of guidelines to not go to hell because 0.75

00:10:21.460 everybody deserves to go to hell.

00:10:25.040 Why is that? 0.96

00:10:25.800 Because everyone has broken the laws of God.

00:10:28.520 And whenever you break a law, there is punishment for that.

00:10:31.540 And so, like in our court, right, of law, if you were to break the laws of God, right, God gave us 10 commandments, right?

00:10:40.840 Within the 10 commandments, there are nine moral commandments that I think everybody, you know, have more or less heard about, right?

00:10:47.380 Um, I'll just run through them real quick.

00:10:49.460 First commandment, you will have no other God before me.

00:10:53.280 You will not worship any other God, right?

00:10:55.100 There's only one true God.

00:10:56.400 Second commandment, you won't make a graven image, right?

00:10:58.620 You won't make a God to suit your liking.

00:11:00.580 You won't worship an idol or make a God in your heart, like a version of God that appeases you.

00:11:05.980 Um, third commandment, you know, don't take the Lord's name in vain.

00:11:11.080 Um, fifth commandment, honor your mother and father.

00:11:14.580 Sixth commandment, thou shall not kill.

00:11:16.580 Seventh commandment, thou shall not commit adultery.

00:11:19.600 Eighth commandment, um, thou shall not lie.

00:11:23.860 Ninth, thou shall not steal.

00:11:25.720 And tenth, uh, you should not covet your neighbor's goods, right?

00:11:29.840 Or your neighbor's property, right?

00:11:32.040 All of us have broken at least one of those.

00:11:34.160 And so we've broken the law.

00:11:35.960 And as a result of breaking the law, we must do the time, do the crime, do the time.

00:11:40.780 That's how it works in our world, right?

00:11:42.240 It doesn't matter how good of a person you are.

00:11:44.400 It doesn't matter what you've done in this life.

00:11:46.140 If you go and you, I don't know, you accidentally kill somebody drunk driving or you shot someone

00:11:52.080 because you're angry or whatever.

00:11:54.200 It doesn't matter how many times you fed the poor or, you know, helped out your moms or whatever.

00:11:59.760 You have to go to life in prison or go to prison for life for doing that crime.

00:12:05.180 But with God, it is no different.

00:12:07.280 You know, the Bible says that we were made in the image of God.

00:12:09.860 The reason why we've made our courts like that is because we're modeling it after the

00:12:15.480 creator and how he operates.

00:12:17.540 And so, boom, as a result of that, the punishment for breaking his law is eternal separation from

00:12:22.540 God, otherwise known as hell, eternal damnation, suffering unlike anything we could ever imagine.

00:12:29.000 And that's it.

00:12:29.740 The end of story.

00:12:30.740 That really would be fair for every single one of us to suffer.

00:12:35.360 That would be called justice.

00:12:37.520 However, because the God of the Bible is so kind and merciful and graceful, he has given

00:12:43.420 us all a pathway to redemption so that we may avoid the punishment that we so rightly deserve.

00:12:50.420 And the only way to do that is to have faith in the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who came

00:12:57.180 to earth, a manifestation of God in a human form, 100% God, 100% human, the essence of pure

00:13:06.240 righteousness.

00:13:07.160 Because in the Bible, it says the wages of sin are death.

00:13:11.480 Sin is the transgression of the law, right?

00:13:14.040 And so, how could there ever, the only way there could be one sacrifice that could pay

00:13:21.140 everybody's sin debt is for it to be a perfect sacrifice, a perfectly righteous being, but

00:13:29.100 also a being with enough value to cover everybody.

00:13:33.320 And that is why Jesus had to be God in order to pay everyone's debt.

00:13:38.460 Because the potter is always valued more than the pot.

00:13:42.780 The creator is always valued more than the creation.

00:13:45.860 The value of Jesus Christ is more than the entire universe because he created the entire

00:13:51.060 universe.

00:13:52.320 And so, as a result, we now have a pathway to redemption.

00:13:58.360 And that's why the Bible says that you can step before the throne of God boldly because you

00:14:04.240 can know whether or not you're saved, all by having faith in Jesus Christ.

00:14:09.620 And so, that's what I believe.

00:14:11.800 So, how do you go to heaven?

00:14:15.960 Okay, so...

00:14:16.920 Bro, Rami, one sec.

00:14:18.160 I'm just trying to add, Chef, man.

00:14:20.640 How do you add someone on this chat, bro?

00:14:23.920 I just got this quote today, bro.

00:14:25.340 I'm a boomer.

00:14:27.160 I think there's a button with like a little person and a plus.

00:14:30.940 I think you might be able to add them like that.

00:14:32.360 I'm not sure.

00:14:33.680 But just while you do that, to answer your question.

00:14:35.860 So, I want to...

00:14:37.080 First, I want to say something about what you just mentioned.

00:14:39.660 And then I do want to answer your question because I know you asked it a few times.

00:14:42.420 So, firstly, Don, I appreciate you coming on.

00:14:45.680 I know there's like four and about to be five Muslims and one Christian.

00:14:48.160 So, I do want to be respectful of your time to speak and to be as fair as possible.

00:14:53.460 And I hope, inshallah, you know the brothers will kind of have that same mindset.

00:14:57.360 And I know they do because they're great brothers.

00:14:58.480 So, that kind of postulation about forgiveness and condemnation to hell and all that only exists within Christianity.

00:15:04.800 And it's not something that you can or it's not something that you must presuppose.

00:15:09.480 It's only something that is found in Christianity.

00:15:11.760 So, if you go off the Bible, of course, you're going to believe that because that's what the Bible says.

00:15:14.940 And that's what Christianity preaches. 0.92

00:15:16.220 But that's not necessarily true.

00:15:18.620 And this is Shaykh Uthman.

00:15:20.280 So, I'll pause and wait until he gets to say, I guess, I'm going to say salam.

00:15:23.380 And then, inshallah, I'll finish my point.

00:15:26.960 Salamu alaikum.

00:15:27.800 Salamu alaikum.

00:15:28.560 What's your name?

00:15:29.720 Uthman.

00:15:30.520 His name is Uthman.

00:15:32.140 As-salamu alaikum.

00:15:33.800 Wa alaikum.

00:15:34.400 Salamu alaikum.

00:15:35.520 Do you have a camera?

00:15:37.420 I do.

00:15:37.960 I'm just turning it on.

00:15:39.140 He's at a park right now with this kid.

00:15:41.580 Wow.

00:15:43.840 Shaykh.

00:15:44.280 There he is.

00:15:45.120 How you doing?

00:15:45.640 He's from San Diego, California.

00:15:48.220 What's good?

00:15:48.860 As-salamu alaikum.

00:15:49.480 Yo, I've seen you, bro.

00:15:50.440 How's it going?

00:15:51.080 How's it going?

00:15:51.900 Are you angry at me?

00:15:54.980 Hey, man.

00:15:56.420 I'm not angry, but, you know what I'm saying?

00:15:59.100 What?

00:16:00.500 He made, like, a little video. 1.00

00:16:02.340 He was damn. 0.99

00:16:04.840 That's in a crowd. 0.99

00:16:07.160 How you guys doing, brother?

00:16:08.660 Good, good.

00:16:09.200 Can you guys hear us?

00:16:10.800 Yeah, I can hear you guys.

00:16:11.960 So, you're an expert on the Quran and the Bible.

00:16:14.380 Which is, which one is more accurate to God's teachings?

00:16:20.100 Definitely the Quran.

00:16:22.400 Why do you say that?

00:16:23.680 We have Young Don here.

00:16:24.600 Young Don at the bottom.

00:16:26.180 Young Don will think the Bible was preserved.

00:16:29.540 I got you.

00:16:30.240 So, if you look at the Bible, are you talking about the Old Testament or the New Testament?

00:16:35.500 New Testament.

00:16:37.500 Okay.

00:16:38.400 So, what's the earliest manuscript you have for the New Testament that is complete?

00:16:42.740 Or somewhat complete?

00:16:44.680 Sorry?

00:16:45.460 Don, you know?

00:16:46.780 I don't need to defend the Bible.

00:16:48.360 I don't need to defend the Bible.

00:16:50.400 I didn't come here to see it.

00:16:52.080 This is something that is unique to Islam, I believe.

00:16:57.100 I do not try to enlighten people about the nature of God, His laws, and the pathway to salvation by talking about Islam, for instance.

00:17:07.880 Or talking about the Quran.

00:17:09.260 Because the Bible tells us that His Word is perfect.

00:17:12.220 And it is a perfect tool for breaking the hard heart and bringing them forward to salvation.

00:17:18.240 So, I didn't come here.

00:17:20.160 I don't know anything about the Quran in terms of the oldest manuscript to compare it to, oh, our manuscript, older, or nothing like that.

00:17:27.620 Okay.

00:17:28.280 You just said His Word is perfect, right?

00:17:31.200 His Word is perfect, yes.

00:17:32.660 Okay.

00:17:33.280 So, in the Bible, how did Judas die?

00:17:36.440 You know, I haven't studied that enough yet to tell you.

00:17:39.500 I know he hung himself.

00:17:41.600 Okay.

00:17:42.120 I know where you're going with it.

00:17:43.960 You know where I'm going with it?

00:17:44.920 Yeah.

00:17:45.440 I know where you're going.

00:17:46.140 You're going with it because in one book, you know, it says that his innards were spilt out.

00:17:50.800 And in the other book, it says that he hung himself.

00:17:53.300 But, you know, I've done some brief research into that.

00:17:56.340 And there are theologians who could better explain that it is not a contradiction.

00:18:01.000 Simply put, in my layman's explanation is Judas hung himself.

00:18:05.860 And then afterwards, he fell from whatever he was hanging from.

00:18:10.360 And then his bowels spilled open.

00:18:12.260 You know, once a human body dies, he starts to be finished.

00:18:15.580 Once a human body starts to die and starts to decompose, you will know that there is a swelling that happens within the abdominal muscles.

00:18:24.300 You know, you can ask any more attention about that.

00:18:27.820 And so, yeah, you know, there are...

00:18:30.280 All right, go ahead.

00:18:31.620 Okay, look.

00:18:32.160 The problem with that explanation is that it mentions headlong.

00:18:35.400 Do you know what headlong means?

00:18:36.280 Look, I'm not here to debate.

00:18:41.440 I am here to speak towards what I know.

00:18:45.040 This is the issue.

00:18:48.540 Like, all right, look at this.

00:18:49.860 The only way we can do this with any degree of validity or any degree of, like, there being genuine discourse happening,

00:18:58.040 you ask me a question, I do not know the answer to.

00:19:02.660 Just because I don't know the answer doesn't mean there isn't an answer.

00:19:07.120 And so, you don't prove anything because someone who is a novice, right?

00:19:13.040 I became a Christian about two months ago.

00:19:15.700 Someone who's a novice who hasn't had the opportunity to study the Bible inside out.

00:19:20.060 But I argue this.

00:19:21.300 Is everyone on the panel okay with brother asking me a question and then I pulling up an hour-long video

00:19:27.180 and then all of us sitting down here quietly and watching this hour-long video as someone explains the answer to his question?

00:19:33.260 I think not.

00:19:34.940 So, I'm saying this is...

00:19:36.400 What's your name from?

00:19:37.000 What's your name?

00:19:37.940 My name is Don.

00:19:39.080 Don.

00:19:39.580 All right.

00:19:39.840 So, let me explain something.

00:19:42.140 And then, I mean, this is going to be civil.

00:19:44.320 Like, I'm not here to attack you.

00:19:45.560 I'm not here to attack the Bible.

00:19:46.960 A question was just raised when I got on the stream.

00:19:49.080 What's more accurately the Word of God?

00:19:52.520 And I was just explaining why I believe the Quran is the accurate Word of God.

00:19:56.140 You can go home and research for not an hour.

00:19:58.320 You can research it for months.

00:19:59.680 We've been at this.

00:20:00.920 Go to the One Message Foundation channel.

00:20:03.060 Watch Christian preachers, pastors from different countries that are experts in the Bible.

00:20:07.940 We have three Bible study professors that came out.

00:20:11.340 We had three Islamophobes, Mr. Wood.

00:20:14.480 All of them came out.

00:20:15.360 None of them could answer these questions.

00:20:16.620 Except for any very lame workarounds.

00:20:19.800 But you can watch those videos and you can see the answers aren't there.

00:20:23.580 You can make up an answer.

00:20:24.960 No, that's not true.

00:20:26.040 That's not true.

00:20:26.820 That's not true.

00:20:27.720 Don, I'll let you finish, right?

00:20:29.880 No.

00:20:30.120 I'll let you finish.

00:20:30.800 We're going to have respect.

00:20:32.260 Don, I'll let you finish.

00:20:33.480 Don, you're more defensive.

00:20:34.860 Don, you're on the defensive right now.

00:20:36.260 He's not trying to attack you.

00:20:37.440 Respectful conversation.

00:20:37.940 Because I am.

00:20:38.900 Respectful conversation.

00:20:40.480 When one person speaks, the other listens.

00:20:42.940 Don, that's true.

00:20:43.620 I stayed quiet.

00:20:45.080 And if you don't mind, let me finish and I'll let you speak as long as you like.

00:20:48.800 Respectful conversation.

00:20:50.200 Okay, but I am not quite sure.

00:20:52.040 Let me finish.

00:20:52.880 Let me finish what I'm saying.

00:20:54.680 You're not going to interrupt me, Don.

00:20:56.040 Let me finish what I'm saying and then I won't interrupt you.

00:20:58.780 That's how it works.

00:21:00.020 Okay, go ahead.

00:21:01.040 When we talk about Judas, this is a very important issue because a creedal issue has to do with

00:21:05.820 the one that betrayed Jesus, supposedly according to Christianity, then he got crucified.

00:21:10.240 Yeah, but here's the...

00:21:11.480 Hold on.

00:21:11.840 Don, Don, Don.

00:21:13.960 No, no, no.

00:21:14.700 Don, no, no.

00:21:16.200 Don, no, no.

00:21:17.200 Sneak on.

00:21:17.920 No, no, no.

00:21:18.500 Not going to be interrupted.

00:21:19.940 I want to hear what he has to say.

00:21:22.140 Okay, I want to hear him.

00:21:24.140 Let me finish and then you can speak as much as you like and I'll stay quiet.

00:21:28.760 No, but this is ingenious.

00:21:30.280 This is how civil society functions.

00:21:35.360 This is how intellectual conversation happens.

00:21:38.340 One listens.

00:21:39.860 When you spoke, I stayed quiet.

00:21:41.780 When I speak, if you don't mind, out of respect, please let me finish.

00:21:45.500 When I'm finished, you can speak as long as you like.

00:21:48.040 Okay?

00:21:48.480 Don, that's fair.

00:21:48.980 So when we look at Judas' death, the first issue we find is what did you do with the money?

00:21:54.560 In one verse, he threw it away in the temple and walked out.

00:21:58.100 In the other verse, he bought a piece of land with it.

00:22:00.660 In one verse, he hung himself.

00:22:02.280 In the other verse, he fell headlong.

00:22:04.680 Headlong means your head moves first.

00:22:07.160 That means you're in motion.

00:22:08.520 If you're hanging and you fall, you don't fall headlong.

00:22:11.520 Ask any forensics expert if you like.

00:22:16.000 Here, you have two clear contradictory reports.

00:22:20.340 Now, I'm not going to put you on the spot.

00:22:21.920 Go home.

00:22:22.660 Look it up.

00:22:23.260 We can get back on a call.

00:22:24.440 You can come to San Diego.

00:22:25.360 I can come out to where you're at.

00:22:26.380 We can have a conversation.

00:22:27.980 But this is just one example.

00:22:29.260 I have, and you can watch our videos, we have tons of these clear numeric contradictions,

00:22:34.820 the Old Testament, New Testament, ages that don't match, because the earliest manuscripts

00:22:39.500 you have are from 7th century.

00:22:41.420 The earliest complete, semi-complete manuscript is Codex Sinaiticus, which is from the 4th century.

00:22:47.480 That means you have 300 plus years where you don't even have a full manuscript.

00:22:51.520 And all these are written in Koneic Greek.

00:22:53.580 That's why they're written by different authors.

00:22:55.600 Even the authors, for example, Hebrews, we don't know who wrote it.

00:22:58.900 Even the Gospels are named after people, like the Gospel according to Matthew, not by Matthew.

00:23:05.080 So here's the problem.

00:23:06.260 This is all not preserved.

00:23:08.640 This is why.

00:23:09.480 Okay.

00:23:09.960 Go ahead.

00:23:10.180 I'm saying I cannot fact-might a single thing you said, right?

00:23:14.800 And this is the problem.

00:23:16.220 This is what I was going-

00:23:17.100 I don't have a problem with someone with debate or anything like that, but I didn't

00:23:22.860 come on here to debate the history of the Bible.

00:23:26.700 I am not a biblical historian.

00:23:29.260 And so I, nothing you say to me right now in regards to these things carry any weight

00:23:35.000 because how do I know where the truth starts, where the truth ends?

00:23:40.280 You know what I mean?

00:23:40.900 So you're, you're, you're, you want to debate.

00:23:42.880 I'm not here to debate the age of this or the age of that, but I am here.

00:23:48.600 I would rather want to speak about what it is that our religions say, because I find it

00:23:53.960 interesting that you, you, you, the direction that you want to take in order in disqualifying

00:24:01.360 my religion or suggesting that my religion is not the right religion is not by looking

00:24:08.620 at the contents within it, but rather trying to, you know, bring, oh, well, well, about

00:24:14.620 the seventh century and the, and the this and the that it's like, hold on, wait a minute.

00:24:19.760 Why can it, why let's have a conversation about something that I am actually more versed

00:24:25.400 on, which is the merit of the word, which is what is actually said in the Bible.

00:24:30.040 And so I don't know if anything you just said is true at all or accurate.

00:24:34.000 And to be fair, I don't think Sneeko could be, would be able to verify that neither would

00:24:38.800 many of the dudes on this panel, which is why they brought you in instead of saying it

00:24:42.500 have to be a debate on, I just want to hear what he has to say.

00:24:44.720 Apparently he's an expert on the Quran of the Bible.

00:24:46.460 I think you're going on the defensive, but he's not really on the offensive right now.

00:24:49.560 Yeah, no, I have to be, I have to be, I, I, I, I, I'm going to finish.

00:24:55.940 I, okay.

00:24:56.520 Yeah.

00:24:56.760 So it's like, no, I'm just saying it's like, um, you know, that's all like, well, what,

00:25:03.380 what was I supposed to, to, to gain from anything you just said?

00:25:08.060 Me, if I, if I can't respond to anything you just said, because these are not things

00:25:14.320 that I've researched, you know what I'm saying?

00:25:16.240 So don't respond.

00:25:18.200 Okay.

00:25:18.680 Don, um, again, I just want to be respectful and listen to you.

00:25:22.220 So if you're asking me a question, do you want me to respond to it?

00:25:27.740 Don?

00:25:29.020 My question is, how do you get salvation, salvation in Islam?

00:25:33.580 Great question.

00:25:34.580 Let me just, let me just clarify one thing.

00:25:36.800 I didn't come on here to attack the Bible or catch you off guard.

00:25:39.860 I was asked a question when I came on and I was responding to that question.

00:25:43.680 I think it's an excellent question.

00:25:45.100 Now, the reason we look at text is because you base your salvation on a message that's

00:25:52.620 in the Bible.

00:25:53.200 If you didn't have the Bible, how would you know Jesus died or was risen or God or not

00:25:58.860 God?

00:25:59.180 You're basing all of that on the Bible.

00:26:01.600 And the facts that I brought to you, you can go home and research.

00:26:05.080 I'm not putting you on the spot, Don.

00:26:06.680 I'm not here to debate.

00:26:08.100 I'm here to present a message.

00:26:09.480 I was asked a question and I responded to it.

00:26:12.180 Now, take your time.

00:26:12.660 Hold on.

00:26:13.380 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:26:14.060 One second.

00:26:14.720 Let me add.

00:26:15.320 And I do have a contact that is more verse on the Bible.

00:26:19.660 Someone just suggested a great idea that I add.

00:26:22.340 Let me, let me go ahead and see if you see.

00:26:25.760 While you're out of my way, he already has to say.

00:26:29.380 Yeah, go for it.

00:26:30.980 Well, the first thing is when you talk about what is Islam's idea of salvation, it's the

00:26:35.580 same salvation that has always been the message of all the prophets, which is you believe in

00:26:40.240 your creator.

00:26:41.020 You don't worship idols.

00:26:42.100 If you look at the 10 commandments, that's what you find.

00:26:43.920 Hear, O Israel, your Lord is one, not three, one.

00:26:48.100 And it says in the next commandment, do not worship graven idols.

00:26:52.060 That's exactly what Islam believes. 0.99

00:26:53.820 Don't worship idols.

00:26:55.080 Worship the one creator.

00:26:56.440 Do righteous deeds.

00:26:57.820 Live by the law as best you can and you will be saved.

00:27:01.040 We don't believe that somebody came and died for our sins and we're scot-free just believing.

00:27:06.500 And I don't think you actually believe that either.

00:27:08.820 But we'll talk about that.

00:27:10.180 If you ask about what is the Islamic viewpoint on salvation, here it is.

00:27:14.900 Now, I will say one more thing.

00:27:18.220 If you claim that you believe in Christianity and you believe in the message of Jesus and

00:27:24.240 salvation, where did you get that message from?

00:27:27.940 Where did you learn what that message is?

00:27:30.800 From the Bible.

00:27:31.680 Okay, so this is the problem.

00:27:33.600 If the Bible you're reading is not accurate, if it was not written by actual disciples,

00:27:39.300 if it was written by anonymous authors with clear contradictory reports, then your source

00:27:44.880 is wrong.

00:27:46.200 There's the problem.

00:27:47.260 However, far more experienced theologians than me have proved that the Bible has no contradictions.

00:27:54.420 Can you name one?

00:27:55.260 The Bible is accurate.

00:27:57.440 John MacArthur.

00:27:58.640 John MacArthur.

00:27:59.440 I have the McCarthy Study Bible.

00:28:01.980 And if you look it up, it clearly mentions, and I've mentioned this in our videos, if

00:28:05.880 you want to see the references, watch our videos, that there are clear contradictions based on

00:28:10.800 copyist errors.

00:28:12.120 This is John MacArthur's own words in his Study Bible.

00:28:15.480 There are clear contradictions based on different viewpoints.

00:28:19.260 John MacArthur says in the introduction of the book of Hebrews that the author is unknown.

00:28:25.320 That's John MacArthur.

00:28:26.120 Well, no, we are aware that the book of Hebrews said there are no contradictions.

00:28:33.560 When I just showed you that the one you mentioned, there's copyist error contradictions.

00:28:39.540 Now you're jumping from it.

00:28:40.820 No, you didn't show me anything.

00:28:42.620 One, you didn't show me anything.

00:28:44.440 You just said something.

00:28:45.400 Look up, look up the McCarthy Study Bible, look up the introduction to Hebrews, and see

00:28:50.400 what he says.

00:28:51.180 You have it?

00:28:51.720 Look it up right now.

00:28:53.140 Okay.

00:28:53.980 My point, and he may have said that, I don't know.

00:28:57.680 Earlier, earlier, he said there's no contradictions.

00:29:00.020 Hold on.

00:29:00.560 Okay.

00:29:00.960 Okay.

00:29:01.540 Okay.

00:29:01.840 All right.

00:29:02.260 I'll care.

00:29:03.360 Let me tell you this.

00:29:04.280 Let me tell you this.

00:29:05.420 You may be smarter than me.

00:29:09.580 I don't think so.

00:29:10.400 I didn't claim that.

00:29:11.240 Can I finish, can I finish, can I say what I'm saying?

00:29:13.540 Please.

00:29:13.800 You may be smarter than me.

00:29:15.500 You may be putting so much time and effort into, you know, researching things in regards

00:29:22.480 to ways to try and make the Bible look illegitimate and all of that.

00:29:27.400 But here's what I know for a fact, is that Christianity is the one true religion.

00:29:32.520 You don't know that for a fact.

00:29:33.900 You don't know that for a fact.

00:29:35.000 No, I do.

00:29:35.960 You can believe it as a fact.

00:29:37.520 All right.

00:29:37.760 So can I...

00:29:38.300 Let him finish.

00:29:39.100 Let the man finish, please.

00:29:41.240 Here's what I know for a fact.

00:29:42.860 Christianity is the one true religion.

00:29:44.860 Jesus Christ is God.

00:29:46.980 And in the end, we will be judged.

00:29:49.680 And ultimately, I have complete security in my salvation.

00:29:57.860 And so it is not my goal.

00:30:02.040 It is not my job to convince people.

00:30:05.360 Because the Bible says that no man is capable of convincing someone or saving someone.

00:30:11.240 Only God can do that.

00:30:12.320 Only Jesus can do that.

00:30:13.500 Okay.

00:30:13.780 But Don, it's not just about you.

00:30:15.300 I want to hear what he has to say.

00:30:16.480 And there's people watching the stream.

00:30:17.500 I'm curious to what he has to say.

00:30:18.840 Hold on.

00:30:19.980 Let me ask Don a question.

00:30:21.980 Don, hold on.

00:30:22.980 I'll let you speak.

00:30:24.540 Don, can I speak now?

00:30:25.880 If you don't mind?

00:30:26.200 No, I'll just...

00:30:27.080 I was almost finished saying what I was saying.

00:30:29.880 But...

00:30:30.200 No, go ahead.

00:30:33.320 Go ahead.

00:30:33.800 All right.

00:30:34.060 Go ahead, man.

00:30:35.280 No, because Sneak will like cut me off.

00:30:37.140 And like...

00:30:37.640 Don, do you have someone that's a bit more educated on the topic that you could bring into the call as well?

00:30:43.680 Okay.

00:30:44.020 Let me ask you something, Don.

00:30:46.040 Can you pull up on your Bible?

00:30:48.400 Or let me ask you something first.

00:30:49.380 You said Jesus is God.

00:30:50.580 That's a fact you said, right?

00:30:52.260 Yes.

00:30:52.660 Yes.

00:30:53.360 Okay.

00:30:53.780 Do you also agree, as the Old Testament mentions, that God knows everything?

00:30:57.980 Yes.

00:30:58.840 Okay.

00:30:59.200 Can you bring up Mark 13, 32, please?

00:31:02.640 Mark 13, 32?

00:31:04.040 Sure.

00:31:04.460 Yes, please.

00:31:06.740 While he's doing that, I'm going to go pray Maghrib. 1.00

00:31:08.940 InshaAllah, I'll be back in a few minutes.

00:31:10.940 Nico, my son's a fan, man.

00:31:12.280 He wants to say what's up.

00:31:12.940 Hey, man.

00:31:13.780 I haven't seen your videos.

00:31:15.180 I ain't gonna lie, though.

00:31:16.240 That was kind of disrespectful, bro.

00:31:17.880 Hey, we're cleaning it up today.

00:31:19.440 I didn't realize what I was doing.

00:31:20.820 I was trying to make fun of Haram. 1.00

00:31:22.240 I did not mean to mock the religion.

00:31:24.980 I'm sorry.

00:31:25.240 It's all good, bro.

00:31:26.240 All right.

00:31:26.980 So what is...

00:31:28.840 You said Mark what?

00:31:31.920 13, 32.

00:31:32.940 Mark 13, 32.

00:31:34.800 I'm going to bring it up, too.

00:31:36.640 Thank you.

00:31:38.220 Y'all going to post this?

00:31:40.420 This video?

00:31:41.320 It's live on YouTube.

00:31:42.760 All right.

00:31:43.200 Okay, so Mark 13, 32 says,

00:31:46.260 But of that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, nor the Father alone.

00:31:52.500 Okay, so how could Jesus be God?

00:31:55.420 And you said God knows everything, and he not knows power.

00:31:58.620 Well, it's because God is a trinity.

00:32:02.260 And so Jesus was fully human and fully God.

00:32:08.140 And so in assuming this human state, there were certain limitations that were accepted upon him so that he may come and be the ultimate sacrifice.

00:32:25.540 You know, God also doesn't get hungry, right?

00:32:28.820 God also doesn't get tired.

00:32:30.160 But yes.

00:32:31.020 I agree.

00:32:31.720 God, the Father.

00:32:32.720 So at that time, he was no longer God then.

00:32:35.760 No, no, no.

00:32:36.580 It's not that he was no longer God.

00:32:38.280 He was fully God and fully human.

00:32:40.480 The limitations that he opposed on himself were his choice because he is God and he was able to do that.

00:32:45.940 He came to the earth so that he may suffer and so that he may experience life exactly as we experience it.

00:32:56.400 The Bible talks about him being tempted, him needing to rest, so that we would be able to look towards him as an example of how we may strive to live our lives.

00:33:09.040 Now, it's a standard we will never reach, but he was a display of what it would look like to live a perfect life.

00:33:17.000 And so in order for him to be able to be that example, he would have to experience all of the limitations that we experience as people.

00:33:25.680 Okay, so Don, let me just clarify this for everybody listening and for you.

00:33:29.340 If you're saying that he was fully God while on earth, that means he has to know everything because you agreed God knows everything.

00:33:38.000 The Father knows everything.

00:33:39.620 Hold on.

00:33:40.200 See, this is where you're jumping now.

00:33:42.500 Earlier you said God knows everything and then you said Jesus is God.

00:33:46.680 Now you're changing to saying the Father knows everything, not Jesus.

00:33:49.920 No.

00:33:50.080 God is three persons in one, right?

00:33:55.420 God is three persons in one.

00:33:57.020 He is the Father, he is the Son, and he is the Holy Spirit.

00:34:00.640 Each person, yes.

00:34:04.340 Okay, so now Don.

00:34:05.900 Each person has a specific...

00:34:09.020 Okay, all right.

00:34:09.860 All right, brother.

00:34:11.200 I mean, you made a good point earlier about not cutting each other off, right?

00:34:14.720 Let me...

00:34:15.200 Can I reply to what you were saying?

00:34:17.460 All right, yes.

00:34:18.080 Each person has, of the Godhead, has a specific role and purpose in that.

00:34:24.480 And so Jesus came to die for our sins and also to be the mediator to the Father.

00:34:30.240 No one may come to the Father except through me, the Holy Spirit.

00:34:33.900 The Holy Spirit came to dwell within us, to change our character and to be our guide, to be our helper, to give us spiritual discernment.

00:34:42.980 And so the Father, for instance, doesn't reside in all of us.

00:34:47.440 You know, the Father lives within a realm that cannot contain...

00:34:51.240 He lives within a realm or he lives in a state.

00:34:53.940 He exists in a state that is far too large for our, you know, meager universe.

00:35:01.260 You know, he's unbound by time and space.

00:35:03.540 He's eternal.

00:35:04.200 He cannot manifest himself in this realm but in a diminished form.

00:35:09.140 And so that is why he came as a burning bush.

00:35:12.080 That's why he descended on a mountain as a cloud.

00:35:14.600 Because in his eternal fatherly state, it would, for lack of a better word, break the game.

00:35:21.740 And so every...

00:35:23.940 And that speaks to the genius of God.

00:35:28.420 Everything has a very...

00:35:30.860 It's not a trivial thing that he exists in a trinity.

00:35:34.320 Okay, so Don, let me...

00:35:37.120 I listened to you respectfully, right?

00:35:38.780 I didn't interrupt you now.

00:35:40.360 The question here gets to be that you're saying things that are contradictory.

00:35:44.860 If you say they're all equal, that means Jesus, while on earth, if he being fully God, would have full knowledge.

00:35:52.060 If Jesus didn't know the hour and the Father did know the hour, they're no longer equal.

00:35:56.340 That doesn't make sense, right?

00:35:58.040 Okay, all right.

00:35:59.260 Let me know when you're finished.

00:36:00.520 Let me know when you're finished.

00:36:01.260 I'm finished.

00:36:01.860 Okay, all right.

00:36:03.460 So, to your point, that is...

00:36:07.020 Why is that?

00:36:08.220 Why would that...

00:36:09.020 Why would God...

00:36:09.860 That's a question?

00:36:10.380 Yeah, no, I'm saying...

00:36:11.580 You're telling me the limitations or the boundaries or the parameters under which God has to exist.

00:36:20.560 Tell me why an all-powerful...

00:36:22.580 Tell me why an all-powerful, all-knowing being be incapable of manifesting himself in our realm exactly how he sees fit.

00:36:33.380 I got you, Don.

00:36:34.080 No problem.

00:36:34.800 I got you.

00:36:35.340 Listen.

00:36:36.000 Can you have a square circle?

00:36:38.380 Can you have a square circle?

00:36:40.180 No.

00:36:41.400 Okay.

00:36:41.920 Why not?

00:36:42.380 Because if something is square, it is not a circle.

00:36:47.480 Thank you.

00:36:48.280 So, if God is fully knowledgeable and all capable and equal in all three forms, then he cannot be ignorant of anything.

00:36:55.980 He is not.

00:36:56.500 That just can't be.

00:36:56.980 Because, now, when Jesus didn't know the hour, he obviously had knowledge that he didn't have, the Father did have.

00:37:03.940 So, that means it cannot be a square circle.

00:37:06.580 God cannot be all-knowing and not know.

00:37:09.280 But you are acting as if...

00:37:11.080 Hold on, hold on, Don.

00:37:12.100 Hold on, Don.

00:37:12.660 Hold on, Don.

00:37:12.760 Hold on, Don.

00:37:12.980 Hold on, Don.

00:37:13.660 Oh, no.

00:37:14.620 Appreciate it.

00:37:15.300 You let me know.

00:37:16.120 Because you paused.

00:37:16.900 You paused.

00:37:17.740 So, you let me know when you're finished.

00:37:19.300 So, I may respond.

00:37:20.340 You let me know when you're finished.

00:37:21.540 So, I may respond.

00:37:22.480 Perfect, Don.

00:37:23.060 So, the problem here gets to be, is when you say that on earth, Jesus was fully God.

00:37:30.040 And you say, according to the Bible, that God knows everything.

00:37:33.860 So, when God doesn't know something, that means like a square circle, he cannot be God.

00:37:39.820 Because, by definition, according to the Bible, God knows everything.

00:37:44.860 And when he doesn't know the hour, he doesn't know everything.

00:37:48.240 So, then you would have to say, Jesus on earth was not fully God.

00:37:51.920 And you don't say that.

00:37:53.560 So, you have a contradiction in your core creedal belief.

00:37:58.640 Are you finished?

00:38:00.180 Yes, sir.

00:38:00.840 So, I do not have a contradiction because God, Jesus, is not separate from the Father.

00:38:06.860 And they're not separate from the Holy Spirit.

00:38:09.480 They all exist at once.

00:38:11.980 And so, they are all God.

00:38:14.240 And in the sense of, how can I put this?

00:38:18.740 The Father exists eternally, along with Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

00:38:24.100 So, if God manifests himself as a human in the form of Jesus, and he manifests himself in a way where he doesn't know when the rapture will occur, this does not automatically mean that Jesus is not God.

00:38:42.320 This is the human, this is just a variant of the human limitations that he imposed upon himself, that he took upon himself for his own reason.

00:38:54.600 We are, we are, it is not upon the creation to try and understand why.

00:38:59.060 See, here's the mistake that you're making.

00:39:01.380 You're making the mistake of assuming that God could not manifest himself in our world as a human unless he had all of the characteristics that you, a mere human and a part of his creation, seems worthy or seems fit.

00:39:19.760 That is no different than the logic of the atheist or the modern-day spiritual person who says, oh, God, if God was real, he would be like this.

00:39:30.440 Or if God was real, he would feel like this. 0.88

00:39:33.240 Or if God was real, he would not like gay people. 0.97

00:39:35.820 Because how could a God not? 0.97

00:39:37.620 You're putting, you're creating your own, and this is breaking the second commandment.

00:39:42.280 Thou shall not make a God in your image. 0.94

00:39:43.740 You're making a God that can only exist under the rules that you're feeble, and by feeble, I mean like human. 0.91

00:39:51.460 We all have feeble brains in comparison to the mind of the Father.

00:39:56.140 You're trying to put God in a box.

00:39:59.660 God is, he works in mysterious ways.

00:40:02.440 So if he chooses to manifest himself in that capacity, then it is not up to us to question.

00:40:08.460 The problem is, Don, your own Bible is the one that makes that box, and you're blaming it on me.

00:40:13.180 Read Matthew 10, 30.

00:40:22.520 And someone in my comment said, God could make a square circle.

00:40:26.160 That is true.

00:40:27.180 That is not true.

00:40:28.280 Because by definition, if you make it into a circle, it's no longer a square.

00:40:32.940 And if you make it into a square, it's no longer a circle.

00:40:35.180 No, but by your definition, that would mean that there is something that God is incapable of doing.

00:40:40.800 No, no.

00:40:41.360 Again.

00:40:41.580 Which is contradictory to what it is to mean to be God.

00:40:45.260 It can do anything.

00:40:46.480 No, don't try to jump here.

00:40:48.380 It's not.

00:40:49.080 That's legit.

00:40:50.280 How could he be God if there was something he was incapable of doing?

00:40:53.400 Don, Don, could God make a stone heavier than he could lift?

00:40:57.540 Could God make a stone heavier than he could lift?

00:41:00.840 Yeah.

00:41:01.200 Do you see what's wrong with that question?

00:41:02.880 No, that's a different question.

00:41:04.320 That's a different question.

00:41:06.120 Don, Matthew 10, 30.

00:41:07.720 That's a different question.

00:41:08.760 And it depends on how you want to look at it.

00:41:11.860 Because in an essence, in a way, if he had chosen to do that, then yeah, he could do that.

00:41:21.100 But he wouldn't necessarily do it in the way that you're imagining.

00:41:25.060 If you look at Matthew 10, 30.

00:41:30.020 But the very hearers of your head are all numbered.

00:41:34.400 Keep going.

00:41:35.200 Okay, but the very hearers of your head are all numbered.

00:41:39.280 Where do you want me to read you?

00:41:40.780 Amazing.

00:41:41.640 God is all knowing.

00:41:43.340 He is aware of everything about us.

00:41:45.700 Everything we do and everything we think.

00:41:48.120 And he knows what goes on in private as well in public, right?

00:41:53.040 Wait, wait.

00:41:53.740 All right.

00:41:53.980 But the very hearers of your head are all numbered.

00:41:56.660 So do not fear.

00:41:57.820 You are more valuable than many sparrows.

00:42:00.660 Therefore, everyone who confesses me before men, I will also confess him before my father who is in heaven.

00:42:08.180 But whoever, this is what I'm saying, like, all right.

00:42:11.040 But whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before my father who is in heaven.

00:42:16.680 Do not think that I came to bring priests on earth.

00:42:19.520 I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

00:42:21.820 For I came to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

00:42:29.080 And a man's enemies will be the members of his household. 0.84

00:42:33.840 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.

00:42:37.860 And he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

00:42:41.960 And he who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

00:42:46.200 He who has found his life will lose it.

00:42:48.260 And he who has lost his life for my sake will find it.

00:42:52.340 You said Matthew.

00:42:53.460 You said Matthew.

00:42:55.520 1030.

00:42:57.180 30, right?

00:42:57.900 All right.

00:42:58.220 Okay.

00:42:58.540 All right.

00:42:59.080 You want me to keep going?

00:43:01.460 You're good.

00:43:02.160 You're good.

00:43:02.420 Now, understand that according to the Bible, God knows everything.

00:43:07.940 Even all the hairs on your head.

00:43:09.500 If you look at the MacArthur Bible study guide right now under that verse, he tells you that God is all-knowing.

00:43:15.560 Everything that is to be known, God knows.

00:43:17.600 Right?

00:43:18.340 Right.

00:43:18.520 So now the problem gets to be is when you say Jesus didn't know the hour and you say that God knows everything, then that is a contradiction.

00:43:27.600 That doesn't make sense because either you say that while Jesus was on earth, he was no longer God and God the father was superior to him.

00:43:36.560 If you say that, okay, let's discuss that.

00:43:39.160 But if you don't, then the problem gets to be that if you say they're equal and they have the same, then Jesus not knowing the hour and the father knowing the other hour no longer makes them equal.

00:43:51.860 That is not true that again, you're breaking the second commandment by making a God to fit your own parameters by that logic.

00:44:00.020 Just because Jesus got hungry, he can't be God.

00:44:04.460 You're ignoring the very fact that they exist in unity, in unison at the same time.

00:44:09.660 There is not as if when Jesus came to earth, God, the father took a break or was on pause.

00:44:15.220 They all three have existed eternally in perpetuity.

00:44:19.540 They are not the same.

00:44:21.500 They are not the same.

00:44:22.680 Let me be clear about that.

00:44:24.080 The son is not the father.

00:44:26.020 The father is not the Holy spirit.

00:44:28.160 The Holy spirit is not the son, but that is how it is set up.

00:44:33.240 It's three persons, one God, and each person has a different purpose in the same way that the father didn't die upon the cross.

00:44:42.500 The son did.

00:44:43.800 There are things that there are things that the son.

00:44:47.620 One of them, the only true God or no, they're all part of the true God.

00:44:51.540 They're all, they all are God.

00:44:54.220 They are.

00:44:54.620 It's one God, three persons.

00:44:56.680 God, the father, not the son. 0.99

00:44:57.960 Would you, would you disagree with me?

00:44:59.460 Say that one more time.

00:45:00.340 If I told you, no, the only true God is the father.

00:45:04.100 Would I disagree with you?

00:45:05.340 Yes.

00:45:06.200 Okay.

00:45:06.420 Can you open up John 17, three?

00:45:09.380 Okay.

00:45:09.980 John 17, three.

00:45:14.600 Wait.

00:45:21.880 Okay.

00:45:24.380 Read it, please.

00:45:25.200 This is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

00:45:33.940 You see that?

00:45:35.120 Now the father's being called the only true God.

00:45:37.900 No, no, no.

00:45:38.620 It said, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

00:45:41.700 Yeah.

00:45:42.140 They may get to know you, the father, and, not, not the father, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

00:45:48.860 The father sent.

00:45:49.580 Yes, and we know the father sent Jesus.

00:45:52.160 The true God in the Bible, which I just asked you, would you disagree with me?

00:45:56.060 And you did.

00:45:56.880 No, this is not.

00:45:58.300 This is.

00:45:58.660 No, no, no.

00:45:59.140 Let's.

00:45:59.760 All right.

00:46:00.000 Wait.

00:46:00.280 I want you to finish.

00:46:01.060 I want you to finish.

00:46:02.060 Get it done.

00:46:02.620 We're having a good conversation.

00:46:04.720 A second ago, I asked you, if I said the father is the only true God, would you disagree with me?

00:46:09.720 You said yes.

00:46:10.880 Now the Bible in front of you saying that Jesus is not a part of the only true God.

00:46:16.340 It says you get to know you, the only true God.

00:46:19.520 You're assuming that, though.

00:46:21.020 You sent.

00:46:22.660 Let me finish, Don.

00:46:23.600 Okay, go ahead.

00:46:24.760 So the verse is saying that the father is the only true God, and Jesus was sent by the only true God, by you, referring to the only true God.

00:46:33.420 Then Jesus is now excluded from that, and that goes against your belief.

00:46:38.180 Okay.

00:46:38.840 So, hold on.

00:46:39.920 Wait, wait, wait.

00:46:40.700 One, you're assuming.

00:46:42.400 You're assuming.

00:46:42.880 Wait, and let me just read, because everyone's telling me that you're taking it on my chat, telling me you're taking it out of context.

00:46:48.400 So give me a second to let me read.

00:46:51.460 Oh, okay.

00:46:52.540 All right.

00:46:53.000 So the highly priestly player, Jesus spoke these things and lifting up his eyes to heaven.

00:46:57.100 He said, Father, your hour has come.

00:46:59.120 Glorify your son, that the son may glorify you, even as you gave him authority over all flesh to do all whom you have given him.

00:47:07.120 He may give eternal life.

00:47:08.800 If this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

00:47:14.640 I have glorified you on earth, having the accomplished.

00:47:19.300 Yeah, see.

00:47:20.900 Hold on.

00:47:21.480 Wait, wait, wait.

00:47:21.860 No, no.

00:47:22.040 I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to decide, because I'm trying to decipher the context here.

00:47:26.200 So, for right now.

00:47:27.600 Yeah, so, wait.

00:47:28.660 Let me, let me, let me read.

00:47:30.100 Because, and again, this is, see, I'm, I'm just looking at this as an opportunity to.

00:47:36.080 To get out of the contradiction that you just said.

00:47:39.220 No, no, no, not to get out of the contradiction, but this is giving me an opportunity so that I can better evangelize some Muslims in the future.

00:47:45.420 When you, you ask me questions like this.

00:47:47.300 So I'm very, paying very close attention to the things you're, you're focusing on.

00:47:51.660 Because, and, and something you have to also understand, something you have to also understand is that these are entire books being written.

00:48:02.200 Like, you asked me to jump to the middle of a book.

00:48:05.920 There's an entire context of a book.

00:48:07.500 Because, all right, let's, let me watch this.

00:48:09.000 You go to John chapter one, verse one.

00:48:11.480 Go to John chapter one.

00:48:12.580 And this is the point I'm trying to make.

00:48:14.080 You see, like, you want to jump to the middle of the book.

00:48:17.160 You're not, you know, you're not taking into context the whole, the whole, the whole line.

00:48:22.060 So go to John chapter one, verse one, then.

00:48:24.680 Go to John chapter one, verse one.

00:48:26.540 I will.

00:48:27.340 Relax, John.

00:48:28.060 I got you.

00:48:28.660 And then after, okay, go ahead.

00:48:30.820 To relax.

00:48:32.460 I'm very relaxed.

00:48:33.460 I'm very relaxed.

00:48:34.360 Go ahead.

00:48:35.940 You're a little on edge.

00:48:37.480 No, I'm passionate.

00:48:38.560 I'm very passionate.

00:48:39.560 You feel me?

00:48:40.120 But go ahead.

00:48:40.740 I'm relaxed.

00:48:42.180 We'll go to John one, one.

00:48:43.500 No problem.

00:48:44.080 But the issue here is the reason you're not responding to my clear verse that contradicts

00:48:49.660 your, let me finish.

00:48:50.780 I did respond.

00:48:52.180 I did respond.

00:48:53.060 No.

00:48:54.420 Since you said I didn't, let me, let me say, let me, let me say what I said.

00:48:58.340 You are projecting, you are projecting meaning onto the verse that is not said.

00:49:04.580 You are saying just because for whatever reason, I don't know where in this verse you feel like

00:49:11.520 you have the liberty to say that this means that Jesus is not a part of the Godhead.

00:49:16.180 Just be, you, you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, you, whom you have said.

00:49:21.120 Thank you.

00:49:21.540 You read that and I said, you read that and I infer that Jesus Christ is included in that

00:49:26.380 Godhead.

00:49:27.020 You read it and choose to infer that he is not included in that Godhead.

00:49:30.600 Okay.

00:49:31.560 Let me, let me say that again, Don.

00:49:33.660 If I told you earlier that if I was to say that the father is the only true God, would

00:49:39.320 you agree?

00:49:39.920 And you said you would not agree with that.

00:49:41.680 Here, Jesus in context is saying the father is the only true God, right?

00:49:47.620 So you are caught here because right before you read the verse, you said that if I was

00:49:53.500 to say that father is the only true God, you would disagree.

00:49:56.600 And when Jesus says the father is the only true God, now you have no response.

00:50:01.240 So you want me to read John 1, 1?

00:50:02.660 No, I just gave you my response in case you miss, if you didn't.

00:50:06.840 I didn't understand how Jesus can say to the father, you're the only true God.

00:50:12.320 And earlier when I said, if I said that you would disagree, and now when Jesus says that,

00:50:17.260 why do you not disagree?

00:50:18.420 Because you are implying, one, this entire book is littered with verses where Jesus is

00:50:24.360 affirming his deity, one.

00:50:26.540 Two, this does not say that I am not God.

00:50:30.440 This says that you sent, he says, you are the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have

00:50:38.120 sent.

00:50:38.420 So since, so since when does that mean that, how does that mean that Jesus is saying that

00:50:45.440 he's not God?

00:50:46.640 Don, you are choosing to, you are choosing to read the scripture in that manner.

00:50:51.720 Don, listen, I asked you earlier, if I was to say the father is the only true God, would

00:50:58.960 you agree?

00:50:59.680 And you said you would disagree.

00:51:01.020 The verse here, Jesus clearly tells the father.

00:51:04.680 Just because you keep repeating it doesn't mean it's true.

00:51:08.420 You see, why do I keep repeating it?

00:51:10.640 Because you are clearly caught.

00:51:12.940 No, I'm not.

00:51:14.500 You just, because you keep repeating that I've, I've responded to you the exact same time every

00:51:20.060 time.

00:51:20.360 And you have not in any logical or meaningful way discredited what I've said.

00:51:25.540 There is nothing in this verse that says that Jesus Christ is not God.

00:51:31.220 You are choosing to, you're choosing to infer that from this verse because of you wanted

00:51:39.360 to say that.

00:51:40.260 Third person, Sineko.

00:51:41.720 How you doing, bro?

00:51:42.600 I'm good.

00:51:42.920 How you doing?

00:51:43.800 Good.

00:51:44.000 So if I were to say that the father is the only true God, and Don disagrees with that,

00:51:50.960 he says, I don't, I don't agree with that.

00:51:52.820 And then the Bible, Jesus clearly says to the father, you are the only true God.

00:51:58.220 Do you see where his early contradiction contradicts the Bible?

00:52:01.960 I see the contradiction.

00:52:02.960 It's either that there's a Trinity or there's not a Trinity.

00:52:06.020 Thank you.

00:52:06.780 So Don, even if you're going to choose to close your eyes to the fact that you just

00:52:11.140 contradicted your own Bible, doesn't mean that others watching will as well.

00:52:15.080 The issue is I'm not insinuating anything.

00:52:17.100 I made the exact same statement that Jesus makes in the Bible earlier, and you disagreed

00:52:21.480 with me.

00:52:22.160 And when it's in the Bible, now you're trying to jump from it.

00:52:25.140 That's the problem.

00:52:26.420 You heard me make the exact, I use the exact same words.

00:52:29.640 Look, man, I don't need to, if you want to interpret the Bible as such, go right ahead.

00:52:35.060 I am telling you that you are misinterpreting the verse as it is read.

00:52:38.520 It is not my duty.

00:52:39.620 I don't need to defend the Bible.

00:52:41.300 The Bible says vengeance is mine.

00:52:43.620 And one day when you die and you are in front of the creator, you will have to account for,

00:52:49.160 you know, taking his word out of context.

00:52:51.520 Now, I've said this multiple times.

00:52:53.700 You cannot explain to me how this, you are assuming, you are assuming that because Jesus

00:53:01.340 said, you are the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent, you are choosing

00:53:06.560 to take the word and, and use it as some kind of separator.

00:53:10.460 In my experience with the English language, and in my experience, whenever I use the word

00:53:14.800 and, it is for the sake of unification, not for the sake of separation.

00:53:19.300 But you want to take it like that?

00:53:21.300 Go right ahead, brother.

00:53:22.320 I'm not going to argue with it anymore.

00:53:23.800 If you want to move on to John, chapter one, first one, go right ahead, man.

00:53:28.120 Before you say that, people in the chat are saying that I'm setting you up and it's a

00:53:31.540 61.

00:53:32.120 I did not bring him in.

00:53:34.260 Faye had brought him in.

00:53:35.240 I have never, I've never heard of your teaching before, but I'm enjoying listening to you talk.

00:53:40.240 This was not meant to be a setup.

00:53:41.360 I thought this would be a good conversation, but this was not.

00:53:44.300 And Don, you're willing to, I'm willing to let you bring in a Christian historian right

00:53:48.960 now.

00:53:49.320 I'm not trying to make this like a setup.

00:53:52.100 This was not the intention at all.

00:53:53.200 But yeah, can I jump in really quickly here, Shaykh?

00:53:55.840 So firstly, I think Don and Shaykh Uthman are the only two talking.

00:53:59.540 The other, you know, five of us have been relatively silent.

00:54:02.780 I do want to say one thing though.

00:54:04.040 So Don, just for your kind of context, Jesus didn't speak English.

00:54:08.080 So there's no point talking about English, but what is used is Greek.

00:54:11.560 He didn't speak Greek, but that's what's used in the manuscripts.

00:54:14.240 So the word that he uses is, is theon.

00:54:16.840 I think that's how it's pronounced, theon.

00:54:18.340 And that's different from theos.

00:54:19.700 Theon is actually the possessive, meaning that it only belongs to this person.

00:54:24.260 So that's the difference between saying that, you know, I'm an owner versus I'm the owner,

00:54:30.960 right?

00:54:31.420 An owner suggests that there's others.

00:54:33.800 Wait, which word in, which word in?

00:54:35.800 Because I actually have the Greek, a Greek translator right here.

00:54:39.060 So which word in particular were you, which word, which English word were you translating?

00:54:44.440 Oh God, the only true God.

00:54:46.040 Theon is basically the only true God.

00:54:48.220 Okay.

00:54:49.840 Meaning that when he says the father is theon and the only true God, theon is possessive,

00:54:55.160 meaning that title only belongs to the father.

00:54:58.380 And even if you want it to, for some reason, even though it goes against the grammar, you

00:55:02.320 want it to include Jesus in that because he says, and there's no Holy Spirit in that.

00:55:06.000 So at the very best, even if you kind of go against the grammar there, and I'm not a Greek

00:55:11.260 expert, you know, may I offer this then may I offer this?

00:55:16.820 Cause there's a perspective that, um, I don't think you guys are taking into account and,

00:55:22.560 and I'm actually, and it's inspired by the fact that you brought up that the Holy Spirit

00:55:25.780 was not mentioned.

00:55:26.900 So if you understand this is under the premise that you understand that Jesus is a part of

00:55:34.800 the Godhead, right?

00:55:36.720 Understand that the context in which that these verses were being preached, what Jesus

00:55:40.620 was talking to, they were surrounded.

00:55:42.320 They were in a place filled with pagan religions, filled with people worshiping other gods.

00:55:47.860 And so when Jesus is points to the father, when he's talking to the father, he is not

00:55:53.440 separating himself from that.

00:55:54.740 He's not separating the Holy Spirit from that.

00:55:56.560 He is saying that this God, which I am a part of.

00:56:00.400 And again, if you want to go back to this very, if you want to, no, if you want to say

00:56:06.040 that again, you added into the verse, there is no, I'm a part of, you just added that into

00:56:10.540 the verse.

00:56:10.820 No, but I'm, no, what I am saying is that we're taking the context.

00:56:14.640 No, no, no.

00:56:15.400 Look, if, so look at this.

00:56:17.080 If it's already been established by Jesus multiple times in the book leading up to now

00:56:21.980 that I am, I am in the father, the father is in me.

00:56:25.860 If you've seen the father, you have seen the, if you've seen me, you've seen the father.

00:56:29.240 If he's multiple times up on this point, hammered home that I am God and God and I are, there's

00:56:34.980 a unity between us.

00:56:36.120 We are one in the same.

00:56:38.080 There's a degree of separation.

00:56:39.380 It is the fact that he's the father.

00:56:41.100 I am the son.

00:56:42.180 And then there's the Holy spirit, which he goes on to speak about in, I believe chapter

00:56:46.700 19.

00:56:47.940 The point is when he's doing that, he's saying the God of those people over there, that is

00:56:53.380 not a true God.

00:56:54.120 When he's pointing to other gods, that is not the true God.

00:56:56.500 When he points to the father, he's saying this is the true God.

00:56:59.160 And so he is not separating.

00:57:01.180 There's a problem.

00:57:02.420 There's a problem.

00:57:03.320 You're adding into the verse.

00:57:04.540 When he says, you are the only true God, he's not saying about other people or other

00:57:09.340 gods.

00:57:10.280 And then he says, and Jesus crime, who you sent.

00:57:13.500 No, no, wait, hold on.

00:57:15.800 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, bro.

00:57:17.860 You can't add your own words into the Bible.

00:57:21.020 Okay.

00:57:21.680 Well, you are doing that.

00:57:22.760 You're doing that.

00:57:23.680 He's not.

00:57:25.260 Wait, wait, wait.

00:57:26.600 No, you are, because you're saying that and means that he is separating himself.

00:57:32.000 Did I say that?

00:57:32.700 Did I say that?

00:57:33.400 He didn't say that.

00:57:33.680 Did anybody say and separate?

00:57:35.320 He didn't say that.

00:57:36.120 How do you get to the conclusion?

00:57:37.020 How do you get to the conclusion by that sentence that they are separate?

00:57:44.140 Let me tell you.

00:57:45.200 Hey, Don, I didn't even say that.

00:57:47.560 All I said was, I asked you, and it's recorded, you can rewind it if you like.

00:57:54.080 If I was to say the Father is the only true God, would you agree?

00:57:58.580 I didn't say anything about Jesus being a part of him, not being a part of him, but nothing.

00:58:02.500 But that is what you were implying.

00:58:05.000 That's how I understood your question.

00:58:06.660 I understood your question that you were saying that if you could show me a verse, if you could show me a verse.

00:58:13.740 Let me finish.

00:58:14.820 When I said those exact same words, you disagreed.

00:58:18.080 You said, Father is not the only true God.

00:58:20.800 When Jesus spoke this exact same word, according to you, I don't even believe in the Bible.

00:58:24.760 I'm saying according to you.

00:58:26.560 Jesus said.

00:58:27.220 We were just having a conversation.

00:58:31.100 I want to hear what he's saying for real.

00:58:33.380 Can I finish, Don?

00:58:34.300 Bro, you've never done that once when any of them cut me off.

00:58:37.100 You only do that when I talk, bro.

00:58:39.020 All right.

00:58:39.320 Go ahead, man.

00:58:40.180 Go ahead.

00:58:40.860 Come on, bro.

00:58:41.480 This is not a fight.

00:58:42.320 No, go ahead. 0.92

00:58:43.500 Sneakle only pull up for the Muslims, bro. 1.00

00:58:46.600 But like.

00:58:47.220 I literally just want to hear what he has to say.

00:58:49.980 I'm not pulling up.

00:58:50.680 I'm just listening right now.

00:58:52.100 I'm not even religious.

00:58:55.040 I just want to listen.

00:58:56.100 I want to hear him finish a sentence, Don.

00:58:58.340 Thank you.

00:59:00.000 Okay.

00:59:00.260 So the issue that gets to be is when I made a statement, the exact same statement that's in the Bible, exact same words.

00:59:09.460 Then you got caught.

00:59:10.360 And now you're jumping.

00:59:10.980 No, I didn't get caught.

00:59:13.060 One, you're being manipulative.

00:59:15.980 Because we were just having a conversation.

00:59:18.760 We were just having a conversation.

00:59:21.220 You guys, I'm easy to interrupt.

00:59:22.480 We were just having a conversation about the Trinity, right?

00:59:26.720 The only point I was making.

00:59:29.020 The only point I was making was that all three are part of the Trinity.

00:59:34.700 That unity is God, right?

00:59:37.040 One God, three persons.

00:59:39.720 You then asked me.

00:59:41.640 You asked me.

00:59:42.580 Oh, if there is a verse that says.

00:59:45.280 I did not say that.

00:59:46.140 I said, if I was to say, please remember my words.

00:59:49.560 If I was to say that the Father is the only true God, would you agree?

00:59:54.640 You said I would disagree.

00:59:56.180 Now, Jesus says the same thing in the Bible.

00:59:59.020 I'm good, bro.

01:00:00.140 Go watch the recording again.

01:00:02.040 It's been great talking to you guys.

01:00:03.840 Check out the One Message Foundation channel.

01:00:05.540 You can see a lot more of the videos there.

01:00:07.380 It's Nico.

01:00:07.720 When you're ready to become Muslim, give me a challah. 1.00

01:00:10.140 And Don, when you go through researching the Bible and the studies and the contradictions,

01:00:14.320 and you're ready to become Muslim, give me a call.

01:00:16.720 Great talking to you guys.

01:00:18.000 As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

01:00:19.420 It's nice to meet you.

01:00:20.480 As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

01:00:22.060 Don, you were cutting him off a lot, man.

01:00:24.660 Yeah, bro, because he takes things.

01:00:26.800 One, he's very manipulative the way he's out.

01:00:29.180 I don't think so.

01:00:29.740 I think you feel like you're being manipulated because he's...

01:00:32.320 No, because we're talking about the Trinity.

01:00:35.240 The point we're making about the Trinity is that it's three gods in one.

01:00:39.360 He then asked me a question.

01:00:41.200 He didn't even get to finish his points.

01:00:42.820 Like, I wanted to hear what he had to say, and you weren't giving him a fair chance to speak.

01:00:46.080 You're interrupting me now just like how you were interrupting him.

01:00:48.800 Yeah, bro, because he said the same three times.

01:00:51.080 You want him to hear him say the same thing seven times, bro?

01:00:54.640 He asked me a question.

01:00:56.000 I respond to him.

01:00:56.860 He doesn't address my answer.

01:00:59.340 And then he just keeps repeating it over and over again.

01:01:01.920 And then he's trying to move on and say, see, I caught you in a contradiction without addressing the fact that that verse does not say that Jesus Christ is not God.

01:01:13.860 And so then when I try to press him further to get clarity, right, all of a sudden he's like, oh, no, I wasn't saying that, you know, there was a verse where he was saying Jesus wasn't God.

01:01:23.280 And so what he's trying to do is get me into a parlor trick in regards to semantics when, well, the essence of-

01:01:32.540 Well, then let that happen.

01:01:33.540 Let him finish the sentence, and then you can respond with that.

01:01:36.100 But I didn't even get to fully hear what he had to say, and I was interested because he seems like a religious expert.

01:01:40.280 I'm having him on.

01:01:41.000 There's a lot of people listening.

01:01:42.100 I understand that you have a lot of conviction in what you believe in, but you have to give a fair place to hear both sides.

01:01:46.700 I know that you believe that the Bible is everything, but this is my stream, too.

01:01:50.880 Like, I want to hear both sides of the discussion, and I know, like, this is not like a Bible stream.

01:01:55.760 I want to hear both sides.

01:01:56.840 It's a place to have fair debate, and what you were doing right now was not fair debate.

01:02:00.500 Interrupting him like that is not the proper way to have a conversation.

01:02:03.580 He can't twist my words and twist me.

01:02:06.580 He wasn't twisting your words.

01:02:08.140 He was going off of your own logic.

01:02:10.680 He was going off the things that you were saying about the Trinity and about how-

01:02:14.520 Don, I think maybe for another stream, right,

01:02:19.140 it might be better if you find a scholar that you like, maybe someone, or if you know any,

01:02:23.480 get in contact with them.

01:02:24.520 We'll try and set up a date, and maybe you can get someone that you trust that can perceive.

01:02:29.420 I think that's fair.

01:02:30.500 Let's say how you want to see.

01:02:31.880 Because I'll be honest, right, having five of us.

01:02:34.560 Yeah, I didn't have a problem.

01:02:36.280 I didn't have a problem with someone who knew more than me in terms of like, oh,

01:02:42.280 jump to this one.

01:02:43.200 This is clearly not his first time doing this.

01:02:45.960 And so he caught me in a trap, not a contradiction.

01:02:49.600 He caught me in a semantic trap where he was, we were speaking, right?

01:02:55.260 And this is the problem.

01:02:56.580 He was disingenuous.

01:02:57.520 We were speaking about the Trinity, right?

01:03:00.040 And so he brings up this verse, right, to try and what?

01:03:05.300 Refute the Trinity.

01:03:07.180 But as he words his question in a very specific way, as if to say that this verse, right,

01:03:13.700 if I can find you a verse that proves that Jesus is not God, that the Holy Spirit is not God,

01:03:19.480 that there is only one true God, then you would have to admit that there is a problem with the Bible.

01:03:24.800 I'm like, cool, bet.

01:03:26.060 He brings us to this verse.

01:03:27.300 This verse does not in any essence, any way, say that Jesus is not God.

01:03:31.660 And then what he's trying to figure out, fixate on, he's fixating on the three words,

01:03:38.520 Jesus saying only true God.

01:03:41.180 But this verse in no way takes away from Jesus is God, who in no way proves that Jesus is not God.

01:03:49.240 Why not?

01:03:49.800 Show me how he does that.

01:03:51.480 Can I, I think, I think I'll make one point on this.

01:03:54.680 If no one has anything else to say, and then we can move on from it, I think he's just going back and forth.

01:03:58.700 Oh, it's fun, it's fun.

01:03:59.880 Before, before you go on, I just, I want to let y'all know, man.

01:04:03.700 You got to go to sleep.

01:04:04.480 I understand, bro.

01:04:05.200 Yeah, have a good night, bro.

01:04:06.760 Sleep tight, sleep tight.

01:04:08.500 You don't need to say it, though.

01:04:09.560 Don't worry about it.

01:04:10.120 It's okay.

01:04:10.380 It's 3 a.m., yo.

01:04:12.720 Like, y'all, I love y'all for the sake of God, but I got to go.

01:04:16.240 I got to hit the night prayer and get some sleep, so.

01:04:20.160 All right, bro.

01:04:21.060 Peace out.

01:04:21.520 As-salamu alaykum.

01:04:23.080 Bro.

01:04:23.640 As-salamu alaykum.

01:04:24.080 Bro, bro, bro, bro.

01:04:25.660 By the way, man, I just want you to know that even though it started to get, like, real heated,

01:04:32.640 I still think it's all cool, man.

01:04:37.900 Yeah, bro, I have no ill feelings towards anybody here on this panel, but this dude,

01:04:42.960 I really do feel like he was implementing some snake tactics.

01:04:47.320 You say this a lot of the time.

01:04:48.620 You know this.

01:04:49.380 Don, you said, hold on, hold on, Musa.

01:04:50.660 You say this a lot even when I had Luke Belmar on, you go back and forth, and when you feel

01:04:53.860 like they're doing snake tactics, you feel like it's justified to interrupt them and not

01:04:57.700 let them finish their point because you see the cut, but that's not a fair way to have

01:05:00.960 a conversation.

01:05:01.540 It doesn't even have to be a debate.

01:05:02.700 That's not the right word, but it's not pleasing to listen to going back and forth like that.

01:05:07.540 You've done that before when you think that somebody's a grifter, but I think he was coming

01:05:11.320 from a genuine place, and I want to have him on the stream again, Faye, if I could have

01:05:14.880 him on again, like in the future.

01:05:16.900 Yeah, like we'll do it with the setup and everything.

01:05:19.140 And Don, hold on, hold on.

01:05:20.140 Don, I think that you should have like a Christian scholar on.

01:05:23.360 I don't want people to think this is a setup.

01:05:25.160 A lot of people in my chat are saying L friend, L friend.

01:05:27.400 Once again, I didn't even know who this guy was.

01:05:29.540 His name is Uthman.

01:05:30.420 I didn't know who he was.

01:05:31.540 I initially started the stream just to talk with the Three Muslims channel to talk about

01:05:35.280 like the hit piece that went out about me disrespecting Islam.

01:05:38.860 This turned into a Christian-Islam comparison, but this is not what the initial point of the

01:05:44.260 conversation was.

01:05:45.140 That was not my intention.

01:05:46.280 Don, do you think I'm an L man?

01:05:47.240 I do feel like you low-key, this is low-key what you wanted, bro.

01:05:56.060 What?

01:05:56.920 Yo, Faye, did I know that he was coming on?

01:05:59.340 You heard him say that he was bringing him on.

01:06:01.060 Listen, listen, listen.

01:06:02.380 On our channel, on our YouTube channel.

01:06:04.800 It's not, it's not, it's not, it's, it's like, yeah, bro, it's good, bro.

01:06:11.400 Yeah, on our YouTube channel, the Three Muslims, all we want to do is bring on educated people,

01:06:15.880 not people that are wafflers, not people that deal with contradictions.

01:06:19.260 And we like learned people, not in just one religion, but in multiple religions.

01:06:23.280 And all I wanted to do was bring on Sheikh Huthman and just hear him out.

01:06:27.500 That's it.

01:06:28.080 And I didn't get to hear him out.

01:06:29.320 Don, what do you think that I did was wrong?

01:06:30.940 We weren't even, you're saying it's a setup, but we were not even talking.

01:06:33.240 We were listening.

01:06:33.840 We weren't like interjecting.

01:06:34.920 I was just listening to you go back and forth.

01:06:36.520 We barely, we didn't even say a word.

01:06:41.460 Bro, that dude did not come on here having a genuine conversation, bro.

01:06:45.840 He came on here, he was employing, like, he was, he was not having a genuine conversation.

01:06:55.260 He did not want, and it looks like how I asked you, since, since, because every time, oh, no,

01:06:59.660 you got you, oh, you got you, that's you the whole time.

01:07:01.640 Please explain.

01:07:02.360 I didn't say that.

01:07:03.160 I never said that once.

01:07:04.320 Bro, the whole, every time, oh, no, now you got you, you got contradictions.

01:07:07.440 So tell me.

01:07:08.080 He asked me, no, he, I didn't say, I never said he got you.

01:07:10.360 He asked me a genuine question.

01:07:11.500 Does that.

01:07:13.060 Since you, can you please explain to me how John.

01:07:16.300 Verse 17, chapter 17, verse 3, explains that Jesus Christ is not God.

01:07:22.740 Could you explain that to me?

01:07:23.720 That's not the point I was making.

01:07:25.160 I, that's, that's never, that's the point he was making.

01:07:27.380 I never said that, I never said that.

01:07:28.300 The important thing is here, right?

01:07:29.680 I think that that, um, Sheikh Uthman, I think he's definitely more educated on his religion

01:07:36.200 than you currently are on yours.

01:07:37.780 So that's why I'm saying, don't you think it would be better if he was to bring on a more

01:07:41.380 educated Christian that can argue with it? 1.00

01:07:43.880 I don't think it was manipulative.

01:07:45.420 I just think he knows his religion better than, you know, yours. 0.98

01:07:48.260 But I also think he knows Christianity better too.

01:07:50.300 That's not the issue.

01:07:51.260 The issue is, can we understand this one verse and what it means?

01:07:55.660 That was the whole problem.

01:07:57.240 And that's why I kept cutting him off because he kept, he kept trying to act as if I conceded

01:08:04.980 that this verse says that Jesus is not God.

01:08:08.420 And my argument kept being, no, you have not in any way shown me how chapter 17, verse 3

01:08:14.920 of the book of John is proof that Jesus Christ is not a part of the Godhead.

01:08:19.640 So Don, what is, how was that my fault?

01:08:23.180 Because when I tried to push back on that, cause he wanted to move on, trying to act as

01:08:28.160 if I conceded that you kept, you kept defending him.

01:08:32.020 I never defended him.

01:08:33.080 He asked me a question.

01:08:34.020 Does it sound like he contradicted himself with the Trinity?

01:08:36.240 I said, yes.

01:08:36.840 I never said, gotcha.

01:08:38.020 I never did that once.

01:08:39.040 That's how you felt.

01:08:40.040 So how did it contradict the Trinity?

01:08:43.440 Explain that.

01:08:44.540 Because you were saying that the God, God is all one person at the same time.

01:08:48.000 God is all knowing.

01:08:48.760 But at the same time, Jesus said, father is all knowing.

01:08:51.200 And that sounds like a contradicted to me because if Jesus, if Jesus was a person, then he's

01:08:55.320 also all knowing.

01:08:56.340 That's what I said.

01:08:57.060 Sounds like a contradiction.

01:08:58.360 I wasn't trying to get you.

01:08:59.600 He was asking about, we were talking about John 17, verse 3.

01:09:05.680 He asked you if that was a contradiction.

01:09:08.100 You were quick to say, yes, I'm asking you.

01:09:09.920 How is it a contradiction?

01:09:11.360 For what I just said, because you started up the conversation.

01:09:14.300 Hold up.

01:09:14.880 You said you started up the conversation by the Trinity means that God is all these people.

01:09:18.500 God is all knowing.

01:09:19.900 And God is three things in one.

01:09:21.760 And then you also said that Jesus is not Jesus as a person and Jesus looked up to father

01:09:26.940 God.

01:09:27.300 And that sounds like a contradiction to me.

01:09:30.260 One, that is not what I said.

01:09:32.280 Two, that's what he said.

01:09:33.340 That was the question he asked me.

01:09:34.980 That was, and, and see, that's the thing.

01:09:37.200 And, and this is what I mean by he was.

01:09:39.000 Other people, am I, am I being disingenuine right now?

01:09:41.740 I'm saying, no, I'm not.

01:09:42.960 I'm saying that that does not address at all the verse that we were talking about.

01:09:47.680 The verse that he tried to build his argument on.

01:09:50.480 The fact that you're not even addressing that verse is my point.

01:09:53.560 And that's why I was getting frustrated.

01:09:55.780 And that's what I was.

01:09:56.380 Okay.

01:09:56.720 Because.

01:09:57.040 What's the verse?

01:09:57.920 Then, then now he's, he left the call.

01:10:00.360 He felt like you were interrupting him.

01:10:01.800 Now you have the time.

01:10:02.840 Can you, let's, let's dissect it.

01:10:04.320 Okay.

01:10:06.640 All right.

01:10:07.000 So.

01:10:07.440 Oh no, bro.

01:10:07.900 Feel free to, just sleep tight, bro.

01:10:10.040 I did for real.

01:10:11.500 But before I did, I got a question for y'all.

01:10:13.520 Y'all like bread?

01:10:15.380 Yeah.

01:10:16.520 Yo, listen, y'all ever had some French brochet?

01:10:19.860 The brochet bread?

01:10:21.160 That's sweet.

01:10:21.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:22.660 Listen, y'all want that real stuff, bro.

01:10:24.700 You got to come on to France.

01:10:25.900 I never had bread like this before.

01:10:27.580 That's all I got to say.

01:10:32.260 But anyways.

01:10:35.380 Okay.

01:10:36.020 I can't sound it.

01:10:37.400 I'm going to be kidding.

01:10:39.180 All right.

01:10:39.680 Don't worry.

01:10:40.800 Good night.

01:10:41.420 Good night.

01:10:42.020 All right.

01:10:42.380 Okay, Don.

01:10:43.320 If you guys don't feel like saying, but I want to break this down now.

01:10:46.620 I want to, I want to read this.

01:10:47.720 Yeah, no, I'm in.

01:10:48.580 I'm in.

01:10:48.920 I'm in.

01:10:49.100 I'm in.

01:10:49.820 Okay, Don.

01:10:50.320 Can you read the verse?

01:10:51.960 Okay.

01:10:52.280 This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

01:11:00.900 What about that verse?

01:11:02.700 How does that verse separate Jesus Christ from the Godhead?

01:11:09.320 I didn't realize that's what he brought up.

01:11:10.900 I thought he was talking about the fact that Jesus said God is all-knowing.

01:11:13.620 Is that not what that says in the Bible?

01:11:16.680 Did Jesus not say that God is all-knowing?

01:11:19.760 No.

01:11:20.460 He didn't say that?

01:11:21.060 Okay.

01:11:21.520 Then he's wrong.

01:11:22.600 But that's what I thought he was saying.

01:11:25.040 God is all-knowing.

01:11:26.360 Did Jesus say that God is all-knowing?

01:11:28.540 I mean, there may be a verse where he has said that the Father knows all things.

01:11:32.820 Okay.

01:11:33.340 That's what I think is a contradiction in the Bible.

01:11:36.060 If there's three of them, and then Jesus also says Father is all-knowing, then he's all-knowing, and he's a person.

01:11:40.980 That sounds like a contradiction to me.

01:11:42.480 I think it's separate from that specific Bible verse that you're bringing up right now.

01:11:46.360 And that specific one, all right, so we can address that.

01:11:49.200 Those are two separate things.

01:11:50.240 One, so you see my issue with this verse, how this verse in no way separates Jesus from the Godhead.

01:11:58.200 Okay.

01:11:58.440 Maybe that verse, but you're also saying that there's other verses that say that.

01:12:02.200 Maybe that.

01:12:02.580 No, no, no.

01:12:03.860 What I, you asked me if God is all-knowing, right?

01:12:07.000 I said, yes, the Father is all-knowing.

01:12:08.660 You asked me, is there a verse where Jesus specifically says the Father is all-knowing?

01:12:13.060 I said, I'm not sure.

01:12:13.960 I don't know.

01:12:14.620 Okay.

01:12:14.840 He may, he may not, but either way, we know he is.

01:12:17.780 The Bible definitely says that for sure, that the Father is all-knowing.

01:12:22.160 And to my, what I was trying to explain to you, and what I was trying to explain earlier, how the Trinity is, Jesus is not the Father.

01:12:29.640 Only the Father is all-knowing.

01:12:31.860 And so.

01:12:32.480 But don't you see the contradiction if you're saying that they're all the same, but also Jesus is not the Father?

01:12:37.520 They are, they are not the same.

01:12:39.580 I, that's how, I remember earlier in the call, you said that they all, they're three in one.

01:12:43.780 No, I'm saying they're all the same God.

01:12:45.900 They're all a part.

01:12:47.040 There's three persons, one God.

01:12:48.880 Each person has-

01:12:50.180 So God is a person?

01:12:52.160 He's three persons in one.

01:12:55.400 If God requires parts, then God would be incomplete without parts, correct?

01:13:00.660 No, and so here, again, is an example of breaking the second commandment.

01:13:04.520 You're deciding the jurisdictions that, and the characteristics that God has to have.

01:13:10.540 You're saying that, oh, God could only exist in this capacity, in this form.

01:13:15.100 He's God.

01:13:15.700 He chooses to exist how he wants to exist.

01:13:18.220 And he, he knows exactly why he does that.

01:13:21.040 He's chosen to manifest himself in the form of a human as Jesus Christ here.

01:13:26.720 But we also know that from the Bible, right?

01:13:29.220 And this is the verse I was trying to get him to go to, because this is the thing that

01:13:34.240 his only argument against the Bible is trying to misinterpret verses to try and say that

01:13:41.500 there are contradictions.

01:13:42.780 But I'm sure he's read the Bible and he knows exactly what John chapter one, verse one says,

01:13:47.940 which is where I was trying to go, where it says in the beginning was the word and the

01:13:53.360 word was with God and the word was God.

01:13:56.160 And then when you go down a little bit further, it says, and then the word became flesh and

01:14:01.220 dwelt among us.

01:14:02.380 And so that's how we know that Jesus in this instance was the word.

01:14:08.080 Okay.

01:14:08.420 Don, would you be down to set up another?

01:14:10.420 I want it to be fair.

01:14:12.080 Let's set up another debate in the future.

01:14:13.800 How about in two days or three days we could do that?

01:14:16.400 And that doesn't even have to be a debate.

01:14:17.940 It could be a healthy conversation about the differences between the Bible and the Quran.

01:14:22.500 I have no interest in that.

01:14:24.320 Okay.

01:14:24.800 Then we won't do it.

01:14:25.780 Then we won't do it.

01:14:26.520 You don't have to do it.

01:14:27.640 Yeah.

01:14:28.100 I, I saw that you had on this Muslim panel.

01:14:31.940 I came on here to ask questions about Islam.

01:14:34.500 I did not come on here to have a debate between Christianity.

01:14:39.380 All now I still think you turn it.

01:14:41.260 I think you turn it into a debate.

01:14:43.200 I, I didn't bring bro on here to try and question me about, um, Oh, what about this?

01:14:49.560 Bro, there you go.

01:14:50.780 You, you came on to question them.

01:14:52.620 He came on to question you.

01:14:54.040 What's the difference?

01:14:55.240 He came on to try and prove that the Bible is flawed.

01:14:58.720 I, I, what?

01:15:00.220 All now I don't have the one answer.

01:15:01.760 We've been on stream for what?

01:15:03.060 Almost.

01:15:03.780 He was going to do that regardless of whether he was here or not.

01:15:06.560 Don.

01:15:06.820 That's one question.

01:15:07.720 And he even got that question.

01:15:09.180 I asked, how do you get salvation?

01:15:11.040 How do you go to heaven in Islam? 0.98

01:15:12.820 All now I ain't got that answer.

01:15:14.020 Don, I came on here to genuinely learn and get the, because that's a criticism.

01:15:21.520 I've gotten a lot from my Muslim viewers.

01:15:23.700 You have not asked a Muslim about Islam.

01:15:26.900 Notice how bro came on.

01:15:28.760 We did not talk a lick about Islam.

01:15:31.400 All he tried to do was to take stuff out of context, out of the Bible.

01:15:36.340 All he tried to do was spin the Bible and try to say, oh, there are contradictions there and here.

01:15:41.060 Have I ever sneaker in talking about God?

01:15:44.020 Try to, to undermine Islam saying, oh, look, what about this verse in the Quran and this 0.70

01:15:49.120 verse in the Quran and this, all I, I mean, I don't know if you want me, but like, I brought

01:15:53.680 this before in the last stream that we talked about religion and you got angry at me for

01:15:57.100 saying it on stream, but I already said it, but you, you, you did tell me, and I don't

01:16:01.540 want you to get mad at me or call me a snake, but you did say that Islam is a false religion. 0.90

01:16:05.400 Yes. 0.98

01:16:05.760 And you did.

01:16:06.360 Yeah.

01:16:06.520 That's what I'm talking about.

01:16:07.480 I stand by that, but that, why, why, what he brought that up.

01:16:11.740 If I got mad at you in the context of, we were talking to a Muslim and I, my goal is

01:16:18.620 not to debate or prove Muslims wrong.

01:16:21.020 My only goal in doing any of this is spreading the gospel.

01:16:24.480 And it is not wise to try and spread the gospel to someone after you've insulted them about

01:16:30.440 something that they care deeply about.

01:16:32.360 Okay.

01:16:32.640 You should question your beliefs.

01:16:33.940 No, you should question your religion.

01:16:35.060 That's an important part of it.

01:16:36.300 Okay.

01:16:36.540 But Don, so you came on here to question Islam.

01:16:38.680 You have three Muslims above you right now. 0.98

01:16:40.480 Why don't you ask some questions?

01:16:42.120 Well, and also one more thing.

01:16:43.360 You said that you, you, you claimed Islam to be false.

01:16:46.560 That's a bold claim.

01:16:48.040 So I'll ask you questions for that.

01:16:49.880 And then number two, you were saying that, uh, what I was doing was talking about the Bible

01:16:54.140 and, and how in, in the Bible, there are bold face contradictions that we talked about,

01:16:58.920 but you're saying they're not contradictions.

01:17:00.160 You said that guy was twisting things out of context and you're saying that I'm breaking

01:17:03.460 the second commandment or something like that.

01:17:05.060 Right.

01:17:05.260 I don't know the commandments, but you're saying I was going against something.

01:17:08.200 If God wanted the clear cut message to be in the Bible, why would there be logical

01:17:13.340 fallacies that I have to accept with blind faith?

01:17:16.560 To then get salvation and accept the Bible.

01:17:19.200 So, all right, let's just look at the situation that just happened, right?

01:17:23.920 With this dude that just came on here.

01:17:27.220 I do not accept that that was a contradiction.

01:17:30.720 He's choosing to interpret that verse one way.

01:17:33.640 And it's a way that takes that verse out of the context of the greater book of John, right?

01:17:40.280 He chooses to interpret the word and to somehow mean a separation, which is not how, well,

01:17:46.220 how the word and is ever used in language, period, one.

01:17:50.400 So he chooses to do that.

01:17:52.300 And so these are, this is an example of, if that is supposed to be an example of a contradiction,

01:17:58.180 I do not accept that that is a contradiction.

01:18:00.420 Don, I wasn't talking about that though.

01:18:01.920 I asked you a question that if God has three parts, this makes him contingent or dependent

01:18:10.700 upon on these three parts, how does that make him unlimited, all-powerful, all-knowing?

01:18:17.360 And when I asked you this, you said you're breaking a commandment.

01:18:20.660 And when I asked you that, I was like, okay, so if something logically doesn't make sense,

01:18:24.800 why would I have to accept that for me to get the message from God though?

01:18:30.160 All right.

01:18:30.620 So you're saying just because you don't understand why God chose to do something.

01:18:37.300 I don't know.

01:18:37.620 I'm saying that's a clear cut logical fallacy.

01:18:39.460 And you're saying if you, if you use that way of thinking, which transcends God's way,

01:18:45.440 right?

01:18:45.780 You said God works in mysterious ways.

01:18:47.680 Then I'm the one that is flawed for that.

01:18:50.940 But I'm saying if God chose a simple message, why would he choose something that is illogical?

01:18:56.500 And my argument is that it is not illogical.

01:18:59.260 It is not illogical.

01:19:00.300 You can't nail the father to the cross.

01:19:02.260 It is illogical.

01:19:03.180 That's a logical fallacy.

01:19:04.220 If God is all-powerful, it shouldn't depend on three parts.

01:19:08.100 Because by definition, without one part, it's no longer complete.

01:19:12.420 Wait, so it's not that it's dependent on three parts.

01:19:16.260 It's that it's a fact that he exists in three parts.

01:19:19.780 And so it's not like you're saying it as if that is somehow God having a weakness.

01:19:26.340 That is how God exists.

01:19:27.880 He exists in three parts.

01:19:30.120 And so I don't get how that is.

01:19:32.900 Like, and this is why I say it's breaking the second commandment to say that that's not okay.

01:19:37.680 It's like, that is what it is.

01:19:39.740 And just because it's not how you would do it if you designed a God,

01:19:44.680 it doesn't mean that that's not how God is.

01:19:47.660 That is just how he is.

01:19:49.780 Okay, Rami, feel free if you want to jump in.

01:19:51.960 But so God died for our sins.

01:19:55.140 Is that correct?

01:19:58.900 All right.

01:19:59.600 You're saying, yeah, Jesus Christ, the son, died on the cross for our sins.

01:20:03.920 Yes.

01:20:04.400 Okay.

01:20:04.680 And if I ask you, why do you believe that?

01:20:06.940 And in a very pious, respectful way.

01:20:08.620 Because the Bible says so.

01:20:12.380 The same Bible that says that the God and Jesus are separate.

01:20:17.280 No.

01:20:17.800 So the Bible does not in any point say that Jesus is not God.

01:20:21.880 There is not a single verse in the Bible that says Jesus is not God.

01:20:24.860 Jesus is a part of the Trinity.

01:20:28.740 I mean, it's just that God exists in the capacity that he exists in precisely because that's how he does.

01:20:39.760 Because, you know, it's like, I don't, I'm not.

01:20:43.380 All right.

01:20:43.680 So your problem is that God manifested himself as a human.

01:20:47.660 That is your problem.

01:20:49.720 That's unbefitting of God.

01:20:51.940 Why?

01:20:52.460 Because if God is perfect, why would he have to manifest himself as something imperfect?

01:20:59.960 Something that eats, something that defecates, something that gets hungry, something that dies.

01:21:04.500 If Jesus Christ, which we believe is a prophet, by the way, so peace be upon him.

01:21:08.340 If he came into existence, meaning he was born, well documented, that cannot be all eternal.

01:21:15.640 And so I'm still not getting.

01:21:17.980 All right.

01:21:18.440 So the problem is, is that he did something that you don't think he would do.

01:21:25.420 No, that it's a logical contradiction.

01:21:27.640 Like all we as Muslims believe, TLDR for anyone watching is just, here's God and here is everyone else.

01:21:35.740 Like there is no, there's nothing even close to that.

01:21:37.980 There's no man.

01:21:39.080 There's no Jesus Christ.

01:21:40.020 Jesus Christ is a prophet in our religion, but it's not God.

01:21:43.780 That's the thing.

01:21:44.320 Hey, Chad, you're asking me to add Cassidy Campbell.

01:21:48.280 I don't know who Cassidy Campbell is. 0.99

01:21:49.880 I'm calling Ruslan.

01:21:50.800 He was trying to call me earlier, but I was in a conversation with Sneeko.

01:21:54.360 Don, we should do this again.

01:21:55.580 I understand.

01:21:57.340 I understand what you're coming up with.

01:21:58.880 No, so all right.

01:22:00.440 And to answer your question, and what's your name, brother?

01:22:04.280 What should I address you?

01:22:05.720 Fyad.

01:22:07.000 Say that one more time.

01:22:07.840 Fyad.

01:22:08.160 Fyad.

01:22:11.040 Fyad.

01:22:12.620 Fyad.

01:22:13.020 A-I-Y-A-D, yeah.

01:22:15.720 Okay, all right.

01:22:16.260 Fyad.

01:22:16.860 All right.

01:22:17.500 So, who are we to say, to tell God that he can't manifest himself as a human being?

01:22:30.060 No one.

01:22:31.400 So, if he does it, what's the problem?

01:22:35.520 But I'm asking, what's the proof for that, though?

01:22:37.540 I mean, the Bible, and the acts that he did, and the 500, and the 500, God is perfect.

01:22:44.840 God is all, all powerful, eternal.

01:22:48.100 But then saying otherwise, via the sun, goes against that.

01:22:53.280 All right.

01:22:53.600 And so, all right.

01:22:54.380 And can I, can I add someone who I think would probably offer a lot to this conversation then?

01:23:02.460 I think at another time.

01:23:03.640 I don't want to do it at another time.

01:23:05.560 Me and Rami, me and Rami, we got to go pray.

01:23:08.580 And, uh...

01:23:09.020 Are you ready?

01:23:10.260 I prayed nothing.

01:23:11.460 I'm here.

01:23:12.140 We're going to, they want to say...

01:23:13.720 We'd love to, we'd love to plan this.

01:23:15.300 We'd love to schedule.

01:23:16.300 We'll have you on next time.

01:23:18.800 Okay.

01:23:19.680 All right.

01:23:20.000 Yeah, brother.

01:23:20.460 And, yeah, just to answer your question, again, you're...

01:23:24.540 The way I'm understanding it is your problem is that you think it's beneath God for him to manifest himself as a human.

01:23:33.300 Repeat that one more time.

01:23:34.080 You cut off.

01:23:35.040 I'm saying, how I'm understanding this is you believe that it is beneath God to manifest himself as a human being.

01:23:41.700 According to the traits that God has described himself with in the said book that you're mentioning.

01:23:47.340 And what are those traits that says that God...

01:23:51.700 Complete, powerful, all-knowing, all of this.

01:23:54.960 Right.

01:23:55.460 It's a contradiction when you're saying a part of that can lose these qualities because then it's no longer God.

01:24:01.800 That's my biggest problem.

01:24:03.440 So he doesn't lose these qualities.

01:24:06.680 He chooses to come to earth in a form in which he is not in his entire fatherhood, fatherly state.

01:24:15.560 He chose to come here.

01:24:16.660 You cannot question...

01:24:18.520 One, the very essence of God means you cannot question his decision.

01:24:24.740 Anything he does is right.

01:24:26.580 Anything he chooses to do is right.

01:24:28.840 And so...

01:24:29.660 And also, it is incorrect to think of it as Jesus is not God, is not the father become human.

01:24:39.640 You understand?

01:24:41.360 In the sense of like, they all three exist eternally from the beginning of time till the end of time.

01:24:48.280 It's not as if...

01:24:49.560 So, and that...

01:24:51.560 I think you're missing the point a bit, John.

01:24:54.420 Bro, bro, what if that's not...

01:24:55.420 Let's say, right?

01:24:56.660 Hold on, let me...

01:24:57.420 Do you feel to our rational faculties as mankind?

01:25:00.240 Like, shouldn't it be something that doesn't contradict itself, though?

01:25:02.800 Like, if it's easily palatable for like, let's say, today's skeptic or today's atheist or today's person that chooses blind science over religion, right?

01:25:10.520 Which I'm not, by the way, because I'm not an atheist.

01:25:12.640 I'm a skeptic, but I'm still a believer in Islam, right? 1.00

01:25:15.200 But I choose to like, question everything before I make that informed decision, right?

01:25:18.800 That's what I'm saying.

01:25:19.440 Isn't it something like...

01:25:21.040 Doesn't it seem logical that if God wanted you to accept the message, that it's something that makes sense?

01:25:27.220 And so it does.

01:25:28.280 It makes perfect sense to me.

01:25:29.900 It makes perfect sense to me.

01:25:31.420 It makes perfect sense that a being that is unbound by time, space, energy, matter...

01:25:38.840 I agree, I agree.

01:25:39.540 ...is capable of moving through our...

01:25:44.200 Let me try to word this differently for you, Don.

01:25:47.160 Let's say, for example, one of the qualities that makes God is that he is, what, omnipresent, right?

01:25:54.100 So he's eternal.

01:25:55.260 Omni, where is it?

01:25:56.820 It's one of the omnis, right?

01:25:57.920 Anyway, he's eternal, right?

01:25:59.340 Now, let's say there's all these things that make up God, right?

01:26:03.500 All the four omnis or whatever, right?

01:26:05.600 Now, one of which being he is eternal.

01:26:08.180 When he turns himself into something that is no longer eternal, he no longer fits the...

01:26:14.200 The threshold for what...

01:26:16.620 Oh, I no longer fits, like, the categories as to what makes God.

01:26:20.640 So he is no...

01:26:21.820 Now he is out of that bound.

01:26:23.500 He is no longer warranted as God.

01:26:25.000 He doesn't fit the requirements because the requirements is the four omnis, and now he's

01:26:28.040 lost one of them.

01:26:29.040 Now, just because of that alone, he is no longer in a position where he can even call himself

01:26:33.820 God because he's lost one of the...

01:26:36.240 He's lost one of the qualities that makes up God.

01:26:39.860 And bro, just slight correction, we as Muslims don't believe God to be omnipresent.

01:26:44.600 All right, so let me offer a perspective from that.

01:26:47.240 One, the Father never steps off of his throne at any point in time when Jesus is on earth

01:26:54.720 doing his earthly ministry.

01:26:55.800 So, them all being one, them all being connected, there's never a point where the Father dies.

01:27:02.800 Also, Jesus' earthly body dies, but the, you know...

01:27:09.800 Wait, you think Jesus died?

01:27:12.260 I know, yes, Jesus died.

01:27:14.740 Okay, so we as Muslims also don't believe in that.

01:27:17.480 Okay, but...

01:27:18.820 All right, and so that's an interesting path to go down maybe in a future conversation

01:27:22.600 where I could...

01:27:23.420 Yes, let's just say another time.

01:27:24.640 I want to continue on my stream, but I think we should do this another time with an expert

01:27:27.840 that you bring on.

01:27:28.900 Don, I didn't want you to feel like you were being attacked.

01:27:33.000 I didn't want you to feel like you were...

01:27:34.440 Like this was an unfair conversation.

01:27:35.660 That was not my intention.

01:27:36.500 I did not know he was coming on.

01:27:37.720 You know that, right?

01:27:39.760 I mean, yeah, bro.

01:27:41.280 Yeah, no, I...

01:27:42.920 Are you mad at me?

01:27:44.580 No, I'm not mad at you, bro.

01:27:45.880 It just...

01:27:47.000 I can hear, like, what's the disappointment?

01:27:48.940 What did I do?

01:27:51.500 It's just the perspective that I see it from.

01:27:54.660 It's, it's, um...

01:27:56.880 You know, maybe we can talk about it off stream, but...

01:28:00.060 No, just tell me, tell me.

01:28:02.000 Can I say one thing before we end this?

01:28:04.640 Don, bro, there were times in my life, bro, I were depressed.

01:28:07.240 I was watching your videos, and I put a smile on my face.

01:28:10.200 And I have too much love for you and too much respect for you

01:28:13.060 that when I see you making claims that Islam is false,

01:28:16.900 something that literally makes no sense, 0.99

01:28:19.340 that I at least want to give it a shot to pick at your brain

01:28:21.680 and see where you're coming from.

01:28:23.560 And that's my whole intention.

01:28:24.660 I'm not trying to spark some beef or anything like that.

01:28:26.900 No, yeah, I don't have a problem with anybody on this panel.

01:28:29.180 I don't have a problem with...

01:28:30.180 It's all love, bro.

01:28:31.740 That's why if we want to do this again,

01:28:32.980 we can definitely do this at another time.

01:28:34.880 I'd love that.

01:28:35.760 But, Don, can you tell me quickly,

01:28:37.200 what do you think I did wrong?

01:28:38.420 We can talk off-stream, bro.

01:28:41.500 We can talk off-stream.

01:28:42.360 It's better you do that off-stream, bro.

01:28:49.300 That's it.

01:28:49.740 This is your job?

SNEAKO - August 23, 2022

SNEAKO Hosts 5v1 Quran VS Bible DEBATE

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