SNEAKO - SNEAKO & Muslim Lantern Analyze The XQC & Destiny Debate!

00:00:00.000 Here we go. I need to catch up with him, man.

00:00:27.000 Um, there he is.

00:00:28.320 As-salamu alaykum. How are you?

00:00:30.920 Wa alaykum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu. How are you, man?

00:00:33.940 I'm doing good. I'm back in the land of shaytan, back in Miami. I haven't spoken to you since Ramadan. How are you?

00:00:39.460 Alhamdulillah, I'm great. What is the recent controversy that you're in, you know?

00:00:45.340 I'm used to being in controversy, isn't it?

00:00:47.960 Uh, see, when you say what controversy I'm in, I don't know which one you're talking about. I'm always in something. There's always something going on. So there's like three or four things you can speak about right now.

00:00:56.700 Yeah, subhanAllah, this is the thing. Sometimes I'm just scrolling at Twitter and I see some people attacking you randomly or something like that. People always talking about you for some reason.

00:01:04.860 I think it's the fact that your name is viral, maybe. That's why they're using you as a means, you know?

00:01:09.480 I think a lot of these people are envious. And it is really sad sometimes where you have a streamer at least is doing something or trying to do something good in a way.

00:01:17.420 You know, you spend the whole month of Ramadan. It doesn't matter what kind of view they have against you.

00:01:21.840 Like no one can come and say, you know, someone spending a whole month collecting money for charity for Palestine is not doing good, you know?

00:01:29.080 And these streamers who are, or these people who generally criticize you, like what kind of good have we seen them doing?

00:01:34.480 What kind of charity, kind of collections that they have been doing in the last, how many years, you know?

00:01:39.380 These people have millions, like thousands, tens of thousands of dollars.

00:01:42.480 So it's really surprising sometimes when I see people attacking you for, oh, you're doing this, you're doing that.

00:01:48.520 Yeah. I mean, I don't really see it too important to compare.

00:01:52.080 I'm trying to think about the audience.

00:01:53.460 So I see people get really upset when I talk about my refusal to take a gambling deal because they see it as a reflection of their own actions.

00:02:00.100 But I'm not, when I talk about that, it's not trying to be a personal attack on these people.

00:02:04.880 I'm just trying to, I want the audience to know that you don't need to go sell out your morals.

00:02:09.000 And, you know, what's better for the world is that you make the right decision.

00:02:12.500 And maybe I could do that in a more gracious way.

00:02:15.120 I'm trying to approach this content thing more stoically, with more stoicism.

00:02:20.540 But what's your perception burden?

00:02:21.760 We'll do the debate review.

00:02:24.200 But what's your overall perception on how I've been handling things?

00:02:28.320 And how do you think I could do better and make it more Islamic?

00:02:32.860 But, you know, we kind of had like a brief kind of talk about that last time, you know, in a way, right?

00:02:37.240 It's like it's impossible to live in the world you're living in and make it Islamic, right?

00:02:41.480 It's like the best you could do is to do as best as you can, which is what I can see you trying to do, essentially, right?

00:02:47.360 Like, as much as possible, you're trying to avoid to bring like these women that is, you know, doing all of this, you know, prostitute kind of activities online or this or that.

00:02:57.480 You're trying to avoid doing that, for example.

00:02:59.220 You're trying to bring people who are more educating the people on an intellectual level.

00:03:03.040 Because, you know, something which is really funny is like you do not need to be, number one, a clown, number two, using women's bodies in order for you to get views.

00:03:13.140 And I think the fact that the whole Western world, in a way, the whole streaming world, I think you have to either do one of these two things in order for you to get views is pathetic.

00:03:24.080 It's honestly the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.

00:03:26.520 It is an admit of defeat in every level, you know?

00:03:30.000 It's an admit that these people have got nothing intellectual to offer, have got no real benefit to the world that they can put forward.

00:03:36.100 That's why they have to rely on using women or have to rely on acting in the most ridiculous, crazy type of, you know, childish manner, because this is what gets the clicks.

00:03:45.920 Like, and, you know, I don't like using myself as an example, but it's not even just me or anyone in general.

00:03:52.120 You see people, brothers, doing dawah, and you'll see them on live streaming, and you'll see them with an average of 7, 8K people watching.

00:04:00.320 And there's no women in the screen.

00:04:02.500 There is no, you know, jumping like a clown, making monkey noises, acting like you're homosexual, and, you know, like getting all of these, you know, physical objects out of the screen to show someone's butt.

00:04:15.740 Yeah, all of this is like crazy stuff that you're about to do right now.

00:04:18.320 Yeah.

00:04:18.820 So there is no need for any of that in order for you to get people interested because you're offering value.

00:04:26.000 The difference is you're actually offering value to the world.

00:04:28.120 You're offering information.

00:04:29.940 You're helping people who are looking for answers for certain questions.

00:04:33.600 You're educating people.

00:04:34.900 You're educating the world.

00:04:35.860 You're giving them information.

00:04:36.920 You're giving them benefit.

00:04:38.120 And they are curious about these things.

00:04:39.760 That's why these people are watching.

00:04:41.260 So I honestly think it's pathetic when people think that I need a woman, not just a woman.

00:04:46.260 I need a woman's body to be very specific there because it's not about the woman.

00:04:50.100 Let's see if they're going to bring a woman in a hijab, in a burqa or something.

00:04:53.280 You're going to put her in the stream for views.

00:04:55.540 They're not going to do that because that defeats the purpose, right?

00:04:57.920 It's not about the woman, it's about using the woman's body in that way.

00:05:01.340 For the viewers who are sadly pathetic most of the time and got nothing going on in their life,

00:05:07.540 so they need to see a woman in the screen because they have no real interaction with women in real life.

00:05:11.940 So they end up watching this stuff and then getting, you know, excited by watching, you know,

00:05:16.520 whatever kind of things that appear on the screen.

00:05:18.980 And I think this is pathetic first because they are using their viewers because, you know,

00:05:23.580 this woman that comes on the screen, they're using her as an object to get content.

00:05:28.000 And then they're using their viewers, the weak mentality of their viewers and the fact that they're not able to get anything.

00:05:33.980 So that's why they keep screaming, bring us a woman in the screen.

00:05:36.480 Where is the girls?

00:05:37.220 Where is the girls?

00:05:37.720 Where is the girls?

00:05:38.500 24 hours.

00:05:39.120 I think it's just pathetic, honestly.

00:05:40.580 This whole scene, this whole kind of streaming world in the West is pathetic.

00:05:45.840 This is the least I could say.

00:05:47.500 I mean, that's the game of entertainment.

00:05:50.260 And, you know, I did a month straight and they never speak about that.

00:05:53.120 A month straight of just doing dawah, completely halal content, like even refraining from things like music.

00:05:58.820 We're just a month speaking to sheikhs, speaking to students of knowledge like yourself,

00:06:02.460 having Islamic conversations.

00:06:04.300 And then they don't talk about it for a month straight.

00:06:05.840 And then for people to still insinuate, like I'm in Mecca, I'm literally streaming in Medina, like in a hacham, all the way over there with half the viewers that I have in America.

00:06:15.240 Because it's, you know, it's my religion and people still call me a fake Muslim.

00:06:20.100 But I don't really, it doesn't really affect me anymore.

00:06:22.720 I'm at the point where I'm just trying to add something good to this conversation because I know how the entertainment is, people want to see that.

00:06:31.880 You know, you're going to have to, ultimately, you do have to compromise halal completely to be able to garner a good audience, right?

00:06:38.480 Like, for example, think about like the ads that show up.

00:06:41.940 Some of them are haram, right?

00:06:43.200 If you're going to be scrolling and looking at Twitter, there's going to be music playing.

00:06:46.180 You're going to be cursing sometimes.

00:06:47.540 It just happens.

00:06:48.260 If you do debates and stuff like that, you're going to speak at the kafir, or there's going to be women, like there's some semblance of free mixing.

00:06:55.420 In order to be a good entertainer, you do have to compromise to some extent.

00:06:59.720 Don't you agree?

00:07:01.300 Yeah, so I kind of disagree and agree in the same time.

00:07:04.320 Like, I'll explain why.

00:07:05.220 Like, for example, you say you have to speak to someone who's not a Muslim.

00:07:07.400 That's not haram from a snap point of view.

00:07:09.240 That's encouraged.

00:07:09.780 That's what that is, right?

00:07:10.540 If I need to speak to someone who's not a Muslim.

00:07:13.140 You say, for example, you have to speak to women.

00:07:14.840 Okay, there's a difference between, I speak to women on my live streams, but they have their cameras off.

00:07:19.220 And I have a discussion with them about what they actually believe and what they actually think and not how their body looks.

00:07:23.660 And you know what they're wearing today.

00:07:25.640 It's not what this stream is about, right?

00:07:27.360 So it's not about also not talking to women.

00:07:28.940 You can also talk to women.

00:07:30.040 But it's about the idea of why are you talking to women?

00:07:32.920 What is the reason you're using them?

00:07:34.900 You talk about, for example, scrolling, right?

00:07:36.860 Whatever you follow is most of the time what the algorithm is about to show you.

00:07:40.000 What you click on is what the algorithm is going to recommend to you most of the time.

00:07:43.800 So if you click on my YouTube, if you open my YouTube, for example, all that is going to appear is the Islamic content.

00:07:48.480 This person, this sheikh, this person.

00:07:50.560 This is what is going to appear, right?

00:07:51.840 This person doing dawah.

00:07:53.020 This is what is going to appear.

00:07:53.960 If this is what you watch, this is what YouTube will recommend to you, for example, right?

00:07:57.860 And certain apps, I don't use it all.

00:07:59.560 Like, for example, TikTok.

00:08:00.440 Because it's like, whatever, it doesn't matter what you follow.

00:08:03.000 They're trying to show you something.

00:08:04.000 They're trying to funnel you into some kind of, you know, prostitution online for women or this.

00:08:08.580 They're trying to do it either way, whatever you're trying to do.

00:08:10.500 That's why I don't even have it on my phone.

00:08:11.640 Exactly.

00:08:12.460 That's why I don't even have it on my phone because it's all a plan to do that.

00:08:15.780 So there is a level of, in Islam, we don't have this idea of compromise.

00:08:20.700 We don't need compromise because Islam allows you all the room that you need.

00:08:25.320 The only time you need compromise is Islam is not perfect enough that it allows you the room that you need.

00:08:30.940 Right?

00:08:31.420 So the point is Islam has the room, all the room that you need.

00:08:34.380 You don't need to compromise.

00:08:35.320 You don't need to change.

00:08:36.080 You don't need to do anything in that way.

00:08:37.860 But this is what I was telling you.

00:08:38.960 Look, I'm speaking again from an Islamic point of view, and I told you before last time that you're kind of coming from a completely different world.

00:08:44.560 You are within a completely different world.

00:08:45.820 You live in a completely different state.

00:08:47.740 So you will have to kind of, you're in the end.

00:08:51.120 If you want to continue what you're doing, there has to be a mixture.

00:08:53.680 But you're decreasing it as much as you can, which is a very respectful and an honorable thing.

00:08:57.940 And I hope in the end, you're able to kind of make it the best way possible, you know, when you're able to.

00:09:04.100 I am trying my best.

00:09:06.840 And I was wondering, did you get the chance to watch the debate with the 2v1 debate with XQC and Destiny?

00:09:14.020 Well, I honestly did not, I, you know, I'll tell you something funny, right?

00:09:19.340 I had someone, like, DM me, like, not long ago.

00:09:23.220 Like, today, I was just scrolling, and I found it, and someone said,

00:09:26.380 I think we had a debate with this person about that, and please tell him not to do this, not do that.

00:09:30.240 And I was thinking, like, okay.

00:09:32.300 You know, like, it's funny at the same time, they're thinking that I'm going to call you.

00:09:35.840 Okay, brother, what are you doing?

00:09:36.960 I understand, this is the thing, I understand you've got this passion to speak about Islam, which is good.

00:09:42.040 Like, to tell people about Islam, and to also educate your viewers to speak to these kind of lost YouTubers

00:09:47.140 about, like, what Islam is, and a purpose of life, and you shouldn't live, you know,

00:09:51.740 and your wife is cheating on you, and you're leaving you, and you're asking for girls' feet, and stuff.

00:09:55.860 You shouldn't be doing this stuff, you know?

00:09:57.080 Stop for a lot.

00:09:57.680 You should be actually, yeah, you should actually be living a good life, and getting married, and having children,

00:10:02.880 and living like an actual human being, right?

00:10:05.240 So, I appreciate you doing that, and I understand, but sometimes you have to, as I said,

00:10:10.940 you have to educate yourself a little bit on the topics, and the points that you make.

00:10:15.160 So, we can watch it, inshallah.

00:10:16.360 I didn't watch the full thing, but we can watch it, and I didn't get a chance, because-

00:10:20.000 Okay, I thought you were going to be able to watch.

00:10:21.760 Honestly, there's not really, we could show some highlights, but it's 30 minutes, it's a waste of time.

00:10:26.720 Instead of, like, I could ask you, like, what's the most effective way to answer?

00:10:32.440 You know, no, no, I think we can watch it, and I'll tell you why we can watch it, because

00:10:37.960 I think you can benefit from it.

00:10:39.880 Okay, I want to see how you respond, and then also, I want to show you the tactics that they

00:10:43.840 use.

00:10:44.280 It's up to you, of course, in the end, but I want to show you the tactics that they would

00:10:47.180 use with you and your speaking.

00:10:48.180 I think it can be highly beneficial, not just for you, but for the people watching as well.

00:10:52.420 Okay.

00:10:53.240 I'll bring it up right now.

00:10:54.140 It's on Twitter.

00:10:55.400 It's around 30 minutes, though, and I'm supposed to call somebody at 8 o'clock.

00:11:03.180 Yeah, no problem.

00:11:04.460 What you can do is you can put it, if you like, on X2 or something, and then we can, you know-

00:11:08.540 Okay, perfect.

00:11:09.240 Listen to it quickly.

00:11:10.480 Hopefully, you can catch what these people are saying.

00:11:12.340 Great.

00:11:13.160 I appreciate it.

00:11:14.580 No problem.

00:11:16.540 Okay, I think it's right.

00:11:18.000 Okay.

00:11:21.680 Or, you know, we could watch some, you want to watch some clips from it?

00:11:26.260 It's up to you, but trust me, it's going to be a lot more beneficial if you watch the

00:11:29.540 thing.

00:11:29.740 I think it's on the top.

00:11:30.460 You missed it.

00:11:30.960 It's 31 minutes, isn't it?

00:11:33.400 Oh, we're...

00:11:35.560 Down?

00:11:36.000 Is it down?

00:11:36.800 Down, down.

00:11:38.280 You missed it.

00:11:38.820 Is that...

00:11:39.200 Yeah, is this one?

00:11:39.680 Oh, here it is, yeah.

00:11:40.320 I can't be homophobic against you if you're not gay.

00:11:42.600 Like, so...

00:11:43.000 No, it's intention-based.

00:11:44.380 That's how I see that.

00:11:45.100 It's intention-based.

00:11:45.740 It's not just intention.

00:11:46.320 It's a difference in application.

00:11:47.600 Because he'll say that even if the intention...

00:11:49.160 He'll say that the intention is determined by knowing whether or not you're actually gay.

00:11:50.440 Because he's saying that if he knew you were gay, he wouldn't say the word.

00:11:51.980 Right?

00:11:52.160 So he's saying that you wouldn't say the word.

00:11:53.000 I think intention is drawn.

00:11:53.700 When you put the prefix behind it, that's what I was saying.

00:11:55.720 With the preface of like, oh, dude.

00:11:57.720 I see the clip.

00:11:58.540 I personally can understand on X2, by the way.

00:12:00.300 I don't know about your viewers, but most of the stuff I watch on X2, this is how I

00:12:04.140 operate usually.

00:12:04.880 I know, but these guys, like, they already speak in X2.

00:12:07.600 Like, they do that without even the speeding up thing.

00:12:11.120 I get what you're saying.

00:12:13.660 You're kissing dudes.

00:12:14.940 I think that intent is drawn there.

00:12:16.900 Like, am I delusional here?

00:12:17.840 Or like...

00:12:18.140 What are you talking about?

00:12:19.000 So is it intention of the word?

00:12:20.160 Because clearly...

00:12:20.460 Who the fuck is joined?

00:12:21.640 Clearly, Kofum does not hate gay people.

00:12:23.220 So is it the word or the intention?

00:12:24.820 Why do we say clear?

00:12:25.580 There's nothing clear about that.

00:12:26.500 How do we know that?

00:12:27.620 He just said he doesn't hate gay people.

00:12:28.980 That's what I'm saying.

00:12:29.480 I have a gay brother.

00:12:29.980 Wait, if somebody says they don't hate gay people, that means they don't hate gay people?

00:12:32.720 Since when has that ever been the standard by which we determine somebody's, like, feelings?

00:12:35.600 This is the fucking grand finale, 2024, cock-off.

00:12:39.060 Well, I'm asking you, SQC.

00:12:40.600 So is it the intention or is it the word?

00:12:42.240 Where do you draw the line?

00:12:43.880 I think...

00:12:44.600 I think I try to be reasonable about the intention based on what I have in front of me.

00:12:51.500 If I do feel like the...

00:12:53.120 Because intention is impossible to fucking prove, right?

00:12:55.320 And that was not a court of law.

00:12:56.540 But it's like, if you have a general feel, it's what the target was, I don't want my community

00:12:59.900 to hear it.

00:13:00.780 I will be there for it.

00:13:01.280 Why do you draw the line for the word faggot with your community?

00:13:03.920 Well, you can call your fans broke.

00:13:05.600 You could say you want to kill Cheezer.

00:13:07.080 You could say thug.

00:13:07.960 So why is faggot?

00:13:08.940 Why did you draw the line there?

00:13:09.620 That is true.

00:13:10.000 So...

00:13:10.360 Okay, okay.

00:13:11.220 So...

00:13:11.500 First question I want to ask you, Muhammad Ali, is it haram to use words like faggot?

00:13:15.880 Well, if you're just using it generally, I don't think...

00:13:21.100 I wouldn't say that it's necessarily haram, you know?

00:13:23.120 It's...

00:13:23.400 Oh, look.

00:13:24.140 Using a term generally is very different as well from specifically using it against someone,

00:13:28.500 right?

00:13:28.660 These are two separate things.

00:13:30.420 So, you know, demeaning and degrading people.

00:13:32.840 Well, of course, I think, you know, this is not necessarily a halal behavior to take with

00:13:36.840 anyone, you know?

00:13:37.400 Right.

00:13:37.740 Specific individual trying to demean them.

00:13:39.560 And because in the end, even if your goal is you actually care about people that you

00:13:43.460 want good for them.

00:13:44.440 You don't want them to start having a defense shield against you because you're insulting

00:13:49.140 them rather than actually listening to you and open up and changing their perspective.

00:13:52.380 So I would say it's more of a ripple effect if you use these terms with these individuals.

00:13:56.860 Okay.

00:13:57.180 What about the idea of homophobia?

00:13:59.960 I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to defend that.

00:14:03.420 Isn't homophobia part...

00:14:05.500 Isn't that ingrained in not just Islam, but all religions?

00:14:07.700 The idea...

00:14:08.100 Because if you look up the definition, it's having negative attitudes or a negative attitude

00:14:12.280 towards gay people.

00:14:14.600 Yeah.

00:14:14.800 They changed the definition, actually.

00:14:16.320 They did.

00:14:16.780 But are these still going to talk about homosexuality?

00:14:19.500 If they are, then let them finish everything and then I'll make some comments on it.

00:14:24.120 I don't agree with the teaser thing.

00:14:25.300 I think that was kind of out of pocket.

00:14:26.500 But the other thing, I think one is because is it something that...

00:14:31.220 All right.

00:14:31.740 This is more of a worldview thing, right?

00:14:33.520 Isn't it that you can change, right?

00:14:35.700 Isn't it that people agree that you shouldn't hit somebody on it?

00:14:38.920 Isn't it like a protected class?

00:14:40.600 Are broke people or let's say as an insult even, even if you don't know the business

00:14:44.300 right?

00:14:45.320 Is that like a marginalized group in that way?

00:14:48.260 Like, okay, so you can change being a faggot.

00:14:50.940 Like, you can stop doing that.

00:14:52.060 Or you can't...

00:14:52.480 When you call Puffman a thug, he can't change his skin color.

00:14:54.980 He's always going to be black.

00:14:56.140 Wait, hold on.

00:14:56.700 Wait, nothing about thug has...

00:14:57.840 So many assumptions are being made of...

00:14:59.340 What?

00:15:00.460 It's not...

00:15:01.300 So we're using protected class, but usually it's a proxy for like, these things probably

00:15:04.280 shouldn't be bad things.

00:15:05.500 So if you make fun of somebody for being broke, right?

00:15:07.380 Usually it's because being broke is a bad thing.

00:15:08.940 Nobody wants to be broke.

00:15:09.580 Broke people don't want to be broke.

00:15:10.660 If you make fun of somebody for being fat, well, nobody wants to be fat.

00:15:12.940 Like, even fat people don't want to be fat.

00:15:14.100 If you make somebody for being gay, well, the implication is that like, being gay must

00:15:17.500 be bad.

00:15:18.240 And that's why he got offended.

00:15:19.480 The reason that faggots get offended when you say that word is because they don't actually

00:15:22.780 want to be faggots.

00:15:23.860 No, the reason they get offended is because they think that other people are loading that

00:15:26.600 word in a really negative way and they're being hateful with it.

00:15:28.620 No, it comes from a deep-rooted shame that they're never going to be accepted for who

00:15:31.140 they are.

00:15:31.600 That's not the reason.

00:15:32.640 Wait, is that why Muslims are the most...

00:15:34.060 Wait, is that why Muslims are the most fragile people on the internet then?

00:15:35.720 Is that when you make fun of their religion, they get so ass-mad about it that they come

00:15:37.860 out and they attack literally every fucking person they see?

00:15:39.500 You mean to beheading people in a comic book?

00:15:40.860 That's not true because you're still walking around and you've made fun of Islam.

00:15:44.000 If that were true, then you would.

00:15:44.480 That's because I live in the United States of America, thank God.

00:15:46.240 But no, so I'm asking, so then would you say every time a Muslim lashes out at somebody

00:15:48.540 because you make fun of their religion, is that because they have a deep-seated shame

00:15:50.400 about it?

00:15:51.120 No, I'm saying that the reason that XQC draws a line there, it's not because of this

00:15:53.900 morality thing, because nobody wants to be fat, nobody wants to be broke, nobody wants

00:15:57.360 to be a Muslim?

00:15:58.060 Why do they get so offended when you make fun of them?

00:16:00.160 What did you say?

00:16:01.520 Yeah, I was just saying, you stop there just to address this kind of ridiculous, nonsensical claim

00:16:05.540 this blue-haired guy is making, right?

00:16:07.660 So he's trying to say, he's trying to equate a personal shame to a defense of an idea of

00:16:14.460 ideology.

00:16:15.420 An ideology is not something that is you, you're saying, this is now the false equivalence

00:16:19.000 that he's making in this analogy, right?

00:16:20.460 Right.

00:16:20.740 So when we say, for example, when a Muslim get angry, he gets angry because he has a

00:16:24.220 belief in a specific ideology and he believes this ideology is true.

00:16:28.100 And then he believes that you are misrepresenting or showing this ideology in a way which it

00:16:32.520 shouldn't be.

00:16:32.900 So they're passionate about that ideology that they believe in.

00:16:35.620 But in the example that you made, there's a sense of shame because it's a personal thing.

00:16:39.740 Now, someone can come and say, OK, but religion is a personal thing.

00:16:42.520 Yes, but this is not.

00:16:43.840 The difference is it's an ideology that he believes in.

00:16:46.820 It is not an action that he's engaging with as a human being.

00:16:50.840 So if I'm ashamed, for example, if I do gambling or I steal or I do any of these things, this

00:16:56.980 is a personal action that I personally do.

00:16:59.100 Not just that ideology that I believe in.

00:17:01.100 These are two separate things.

00:17:02.080 So there is a false equivalence that he's making there.

00:17:04.420 But in the end, no one is saying Islam is not teaching you to get angry if just anyone

00:17:07.920 is talking about Islam as well.

00:17:09.280 This is another straw man that he's making in this analogy.

00:17:11.500 So Islam doesn't teach if someone speaks about Islam, then you just go around and do

00:17:16.140 whatever this stuff is saying.

00:17:17.480 So that's not Islam.

00:17:18.280 But maybe it doesn't work.

00:17:19.520 Does that false equivalency happen?

00:17:20.900 I notice it a lot.

00:17:21.720 Not just with these blue hair people, with all of them.

00:17:23.780 Isn't their religion?

00:17:24.580 Because humans are always inclined to follow something.

00:17:27.020 They need faith in something.

00:17:28.380 Don't you think that LGBT and this whole, you know, that craziness, that's become their faith

00:17:33.700 and their religion.

00:17:34.280 That's why they compare it to Islam.

00:17:37.120 Yeah, you can say that.

00:17:38.340 You can say it has become an ideology for certain people to adopt.

00:17:42.200 But if you're talking about the sense of shame, it's not to do with the ideology.

00:17:45.980 Like if you call them that, they don't feel ashamed because of their ideology of LGBTQs

00:17:50.960 being attacked.

00:17:51.620 But it's of their personal behavior, personal actions and interaction in that specific act

00:17:56.040 that they're ashamed of doing.

00:17:57.060 Okay.

00:17:59.720 It has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

00:18:01.200 People don't get offended.

00:18:01.700 Exactly.

00:18:01.800 You said that people get offended for being gay because they're-

00:18:03.640 Consecret it up!

00:18:04.660 That's not the same.

00:18:04.980 You said that people get offended by being called Muslim because they're-

00:18:07.700 The way he debates the culture is he's going to equate being Muslim to being gay.

00:18:11.780 Nobody gets offended.

00:18:12.760 If a blue hair destiny calls me a Muslim, nobody's offended.

00:18:15.260 Right?

00:18:15.420 If I say, if I call somebody gay and you're not gay, they'll get offended because nobody wants

00:18:19.020 to be gay.

00:18:19.500 They're not offended.

00:18:20.400 They don't want to be around people that are hateful.

00:18:21.700 They're upset because you're being hateful towards them.

00:18:23.160 The same way that Muslims get offended when you talk about their religion in a negative way.

00:18:25.640 Also, I think that they have kind of the right to be upset, right?

00:18:29.220 To be kind of shit on for something that they can't change, right?

00:18:32.080 No, no, no.

00:18:32.420 It doesn't have to do can't change or can change.

00:18:35.500 You can change your nationality.

00:18:36.840 It doesn't necessarily mean you should attack somebody over their nationality.

00:18:38.500 You can change the country you're living in or whatever.

00:18:40.840 Well, that's kind of how-

00:18:43.540 That's like my view on it.

00:18:44.860 It's like-

00:18:45.580 I don't think it's a good thing to go around just being who you are and getting clapped on

00:18:49.240 all the time for it.

00:18:49.900 I think it's just-

00:18:50.840 It can feel bad, but I mean, like, insults are supposed to feel bad.

00:18:53.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

00:18:53.840 The question is, like, what do you want to make somebody feel bad for, right?

00:18:56.420 If it's a bad characteristic, so if you think somebody's generally bad because they're like

00:18:59.160 a Nazi or a tanky or a brokey or they're fat or whatever, those are all, like, bad characteristics.

00:19:03.700 Then you can say, like, oh, well, fuck it.

00:19:04.540 Yeah, you can make fun of people for these things.

00:19:05.500 If you're making fun of somebody for being gay, the implication is you think that being

00:19:07.700 gay is, like, a negative bad characteristic, and that's why you're being bad for it.

00:19:10.800 That's why the person-

00:19:11.380 Here's an-

00:19:11.840 But that's the question I want to ask you.

00:19:14.180 Is it Islamic to believe that being gay is bad?

00:19:18.420 Yeah.

00:19:19.300 Correct, right?

00:19:19.680 Before we talk about bad and good, there is an argument that this guy, the other guy is

00:19:25.380 making.

00:19:25.900 I don't know who's, like, his speech is not really clear.

00:19:28.580 This guy, the argument he's trying to make is that it's a natural thing to be.

00:19:33.700 It's not choice.

00:19:34.720 You're born that way.

00:19:36.020 Yeah.

00:19:36.660 And being gay is a choice.

00:19:38.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:39.500 This is the thing.

00:19:40.360 This is what you were saying.

00:19:41.920 He's rebutting that by saying it's a problem to shame someone for being themselves, right?

00:19:46.920 But where is the argument?

00:19:47.840 Where is the evidence that he provided that being homosexual is a natural thing?

00:19:51.380 It's a natural state of the human being.

00:19:52.580 Where is the evidence scientific or otherwise that shows that?

00:19:56.220 And by the way, me as a Muslim or you or anyone doesn't need to give evidence for anything

00:20:00.280 because they're making the claim that this is an innate position.

00:20:02.240 You are making the claim it's an innate position to be homosexual, then provide your evidence.

00:20:07.860 Where is the evidence that this is the innate state?

00:20:10.180 Like, no one is going to argue is that being heterosexual is innate or not because it's

00:20:14.420 a biological thing.

00:20:15.800 And a man and woman engage, they have birth, there's a specific, you know, body parts that

00:20:20.000 are created and they're supposed to be in harm in a specific way that God created them to

00:20:23.700 be.

00:20:24.260 That is the biological thing that takes place.

00:20:26.400 But if you want to claim now that something other than that is natural, then where is

00:20:31.420 your evidence for that?

00:20:32.660 The funny thing is that there is evidence opposite to that.

00:20:35.460 So right now, if you try to Google, for example, open another page and try to Google 2019,

00:20:39.960 no gay gene, Nature magazine.

00:20:44.760 No gay gene.

00:20:45.620 There's no gay gene, but genetics are like the same sex behavior.

00:20:48.940 No, no.

00:20:49.380 Put Nature magazine.

00:20:50.740 There's specific research that was published in Nature.

00:20:52.620 I hope it's still there and they didn't remove it or something.

00:20:54.600 Yes.

00:20:58.060 So this is Nature magazine.

00:20:59.640 No one, anyone who understands anything about science knows what nature is.

00:21:02.820 So there was a massive study, billions of dollars paid or millions or however that they

00:21:06.500 did in the West trying to find the gay gene.

00:21:08.180 Why didn't they try to find the gay gene?

00:21:09.860 Because they tried to justify the fact that being gay is actually genetic.

00:21:13.380 It's actually something you don't have a control over and you're forced to be that way.

00:21:17.500 And they spend these millions of dollars on these studies and they end up, they end up

00:21:21.040 themselves admitting that there is no such thing.

00:21:22.880 There is no gay gene, it doesn't exist.

00:21:25.300 And now, so this is the first thing.

00:21:27.260 The studies themselves they're making is showing that there's no such thing.

00:21:31.180 But not only that, there are studies opposite to that.

00:21:34.440 Like for example, there's a book written by two scientists called My Genes Made Me Do It.

00:21:39.820 My Genes Made Me Do It.

00:21:41.000 You can Google it also if you like.

00:21:42.200 That book has a lot of different studies and they display why this is not an innate thing.

00:21:50.220 Same thing like depression.

00:21:52.420 Like that whole idea that it's a chemical imbalance was debunked, thinking that it's

00:21:55.500 something, depression is not something that you just catch, it's something that you choose

00:21:59.080 to do.

00:21:59.420 And some of what they do, for example, some of the evidences they use, they bring identical

00:22:04.500 twins.

00:22:05.660 You know what identical twins are?

00:22:06.840 Yes.

00:22:07.100 Identical twins are almost similar 100% in their genetic makeup.

00:22:11.020 And then they bring one twin who is homosexual and the other isn't.

00:22:15.080 So how is it a genetic thing when they basically have almost the same genetic makeup, but one

00:22:20.440 of them is homosexual and the other is not, the other is straight.

00:22:23.860 And they have the same environment of growing up in.

00:22:26.940 So these are some of the evidences they display that this is not a natural thing, right?

00:22:31.100 So this is a book.

00:22:31.960 There's even a study, a massive study that was done, but it was too against being a political

00:22:37.340 thing, you know?

00:22:38.200 It was against the liberalism.

00:22:40.220 That's why they had to take it down.

00:22:41.360 It was the study of Dr. Robert Spitzer, which is the father of modern psychology in America.

00:22:46.580 And what he did is he conducted a study.

00:22:49.240 He spoke to 200 homosexuals on the phone.

00:22:53.560 And both of them changed to heterosexual tendencies.

00:22:58.040 All of them, sorry, changed to heterosexual tendencies.

00:23:00.380 200 people.

00:23:01.360 How?

00:23:01.940 And he spoke to them.

00:23:03.540 That's it.

00:23:04.460 What did he tell them?

00:23:05.240 Did he give them a dollar?

00:23:05.860 Was he Muslim?

00:23:07.020 No, no.

00:23:07.400 He is a psychologist.

00:23:09.460 He's the father of modern psychology in America, actually.

00:23:11.760 It's not just a random guy.

00:23:13.040 His name is Robert Spitzer.

00:23:14.740 And he conducted this study.

00:23:16.380 He called it a reparative treatment, i.e. repairing something, which is used to be repaired.

00:23:21.460 That's why he was attacked by the media.

00:23:22.760 And he had to change the name from reparative treatment.

00:23:25.320 And later on, he had to come on and retract the whole study and say, you know what?

00:23:29.060 The study was deficient.

00:23:29.980 Why did he say it was deficient?

00:23:30.940 He said, because you cannot know just through the phone if they actually have become heterosexual

00:23:35.880 or not, and you cannot know when someone is truly homosexual or not.

00:23:39.200 Some nonsense to try to avoid the fact that the findings of this study that he spent years

00:23:43.440 on, of speaking to 200 people and all of them, have changed into heterosexual tendencies.

00:23:48.680 And, you know, before the 1960s, by the way, homosexuality was a psychological disorder.

00:23:54.620 Now, this is not my opinion.

00:23:55.440 This is in every medical textbook.

00:23:57.280 Before the 1960s, before the liberalism and the sexual quote-unquote revolution and all

00:24:01.820 the stuff that happened, this was a psychological disorder.

00:24:05.140 And they always tied it, the psychologists at that time, they tied it to abuse when you're

00:24:12.160 young.

00:24:13.460 So, for example, lack of father figure when you're growing up abused when you're a child.

00:24:16.420 Or maybe they were molested or something, or they had sex young, or they were exposed

00:24:19.700 to porn.

00:24:20.820 Or they were abused by their own parents, or they don't have a father figure in their family.

00:24:25.640 For example, growing with just a mother.

00:24:27.620 All of these things have been the common factor that has been used in all of these studies

00:24:33.980 before the 1960s.

00:24:35.000 When the 1960s came, and it became being gay, criticizing it has become politically a sin,

00:24:41.960 incorrect to do in the Western world.

00:24:45.060 Then no one was allowed to label it as such.

00:24:48.760 And gender, and then you had people like Joe Money, and you have people like, you know,

00:24:53.100 these people are coming.

00:24:53.840 And Alfred Kenzie, who came and said, you know what, this gender is a social construct.

00:24:58.460 Also, I think he was Jewish, correct?

00:25:00.740 Alfred Kenzie?

00:25:01.200 Yeah.

00:25:01.760 Yeah.

00:25:02.720 Yeah.

00:25:03.080 So these people, look, it's funny when you trace sometimes, you know, when these people

00:25:06.920 come from lineage, you know, it's a different story for a different day.

00:25:09.660 But the thing is this, right?

00:25:10.820 Yeah.

00:25:11.140 They propose this nonsense about that the gender is not really, you know, we don't know what

00:25:14.880 a man, these are all made up concepts.

00:25:17.180 You know, you had Joe Money, and these people conducting studies, who are actually trying to get

00:25:21.080 pleasure in babies, like in children, who are like, so it was crazy, crazy stuff, you

00:25:26.500 know.

00:25:26.620 But the thing is, look, right now I've provided you like different types of articles and evidences

00:25:30.980 that demonstrates that there's no such thing.

00:25:33.400 Right.

00:25:33.760 I don't even need to finish.

00:25:35.040 You've debunked like pretty much the rest of the debate.

00:25:38.980 I just, before interrupting you, I'm sorry.

00:25:40.700 But he goes on to say like, their position is their morality, because I go, I was trying

00:25:46.240 to give them Dawah.

00:25:47.140 My argument was that all my morality, all my beliefs, they go back to the Quran, Sunnah,

00:25:51.140 Halas.

00:25:51.420 That's it.

00:25:51.800 Just Quran, Sunnah.

00:25:52.580 That's how, you need to have something that hasn't changed in order to figure out right

00:25:56.020 from wrong.

00:25:56.500 Can you skip then the part where they're talking about the age of consent?

00:26:01.540 The marriage of the prophet, yeah, the age of consent and this and that.

00:26:03.900 Right.

00:26:04.120 But so, like their position is that the morality is always adapting.

00:26:08.680 It's always changing.

00:26:09.500 It always changes with the times.

00:26:11.200 And that's how it can be consistent, because if one year and one decade, being gay is a

00:26:16.220 mental illness and then the other decade is not, then you're always going to shift and

00:26:19.280 it could easily be corrupted because mankind is, or we're inherently flawed.

00:26:23.220 Let's go, I think the age of consent is right.

00:26:25.160 The reason I'm trying to listen to them is, none of them can claim that we're misrepresenting

00:26:28.960 their position, but they can, the words of the horse's mouth, you know, take it from

00:26:32.620 their own mouth and then debunk what they're saying.

00:26:36.100 I want to play this last one.

00:26:37.580 Um, and then can I add, um, I want to add, uh, this, this guy, Steve will do it to the

00:26:42.120 call.

00:26:42.320 Is that okay with you?

00:26:43.400 Yeah, that's fine.

00:26:44.020 Okay, perfect.

00:26:44.880 He's, um, not, he's a disbeliever and he wants to learn a little bit more.

00:26:47.900 You can add the, you know, when you want to like, it's up to you.

00:26:50.040 Okay, great.

00:26:50.420 I'm here.

00:26:55.720 Oh, it's like, poor people internet.

00:26:59.560 Yo, what the?

00:27:01.520 I thought it was Haram to make insults.

00:27:03.740 Yeah, just Jeff.

00:27:04.620 Here, you.

00:27:06.320 Bro, you just said I'm broke, bro.

00:27:07.900 You made an XQC joke.

00:27:09.340 You have more money than me, man.

00:27:10.680 Oh, no, no.

00:27:11.780 My internet's still poorer than yours.

00:27:13.740 Okay, it's, um.

00:27:15.360 It's up, I think, up, up.

00:27:16.520 You always go down, it's up, up.

00:27:18.420 Well, it's not really.

00:27:19.500 Overall, mankind strives to be better.

00:27:22.500 Once we know more, we can change things.

00:27:24.460 Sometimes textbooks are wrong, like science, and they have to fix it.

00:27:27.900 They know more, they improve.

00:27:29.820 I should adapt and add new parts of the machine that are stronger machine.

00:27:33.560 It's what I do.

00:27:34.460 It's what I think people should try to do.

00:27:35.640 So your morality could be different tomorrow than it is today?

00:27:38.960 Absolutely, 100%.

00:27:39.640 Because there are things that we don't know yet about human cognition, psychology, just social viewers.

00:27:48.320 We just don't know some things, and we have to adapt to new information in order to cause this harm in the mess.

00:27:54.300 Also, even religions literally do this, okay?

00:27:57.100 Like, even religions update their standards for how they exist and how they are spread amongst their people

00:28:01.700 and how their nations are around over time.

00:28:03.200 Like, Islam's done this, Christianity's done this.

00:28:05.060 No, Islam has not done that.

00:28:06.220 That's not true.

00:28:06.860 And Christianity's been adapted, but that's besides the point.

00:28:08.940 What do you mean Islam hasn't done this?

00:28:10.740 You don't think that Islam or Islamic states haven't changed the way, for instance, that they approach, like, Dimi?

00:28:14.680 Like, the way that they have, like, other religious groups that live in their countries?

00:28:18.500 You're changing morality to politics, and that's not what I'm talking about.

00:28:21.060 Hold on.

00:28:21.640 I'm sorry.

00:28:22.020 Wait, wait, wait.

00:28:22.520 Shut the fuck up.

00:28:23.060 That's not politics at all.

00:28:24.420 What do you mean?

00:28:25.220 Of course that's morality.

00:28:26.360 You said Muslim states.

00:28:27.200 You said Muslim countries.

00:28:28.120 I'm talking about the book and theology.

00:28:29.140 I'm sorry.

00:28:29.700 What do you think Muslim state means that's not involved in religion?

00:28:33.220 What do you think a caliphate is?

00:28:34.560 Who do you think Muhammad was?

00:28:35.900 What the fuck are you talking about?

00:28:37.100 Okay, you're shifting the goalposts.

00:28:40.460 This is not, like, being loud.

00:28:41.200 Hold on.

00:28:41.480 I'm sorry.

00:28:41.760 Wait, wait.

00:28:41.960 I just need to hear you say this.

00:28:42.900 Do you think that politics and Islam are completely dissociated from one another?

00:28:46.540 They don't have anything to do with each other?

00:28:48.040 Right.

00:28:48.340 You saying that it's changing, that's sort of an example of politics changing the religion.

00:28:52.420 That's not to the core.

00:28:53.820 And that's besides the point.

00:28:55.020 How is that besides the point?

00:28:56.380 I'm sorry.

00:28:56.680 Hold on.

00:28:56.920 I need to hear you say this.

00:28:57.580 I want you to stop the video for a second.

00:29:00.000 Look, now here you need to know what is the debate tactics.

00:29:02.280 I see you falling for easy tricks there, which is a big problem, right?

00:29:05.780 So this guy, what he's done there is a very easy debate tactic that they use with people,

00:29:10.000 which is moving the goalposts.

00:29:11.540 This is what he done.

00:29:12.260 I called it out.

00:29:12.860 I said it, but what should I have done there?

00:29:15.920 Yeah, I'll tell you.

00:29:16.600 The problem is you went with the flow, with whatever he said next, you went with it.

00:29:20.260 You responded to it.

00:29:21.460 So first, he went from Islam to Islamic State, right?

00:29:23.900 And then he went from Islamic State to politics.

00:29:25.740 And then he claimed that politics and Islam has nothing to do with each other.

00:29:28.300 Who made that claim?

00:29:29.720 You've never made that claim in the discussion.

00:29:31.700 So he jumped from one to three to four.

00:29:33.320 And he keeps jumping in different hoops and changing his position.

00:29:35.940 Why?

00:29:36.160 Because he's a very sneaky guy.

00:29:37.440 And these sneaky people, they use terms, right?

00:29:39.900 And they try to combine different terms with each other.

00:29:42.120 So they play a game.

00:29:43.280 He knows that Islam and Islamic State are completely two different things.

00:29:46.980 That doesn't mean that in Islam, we don't have a political system.

00:29:50.620 But what we mean is that the actions that the state does is not representatives of the religion.

00:29:54.400 Of the Quran.

00:29:55.020 This is the point.

00:29:55.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:56.300 Which is the point that you were making.

00:29:57.680 So he was playing a game.

00:29:58.440 Oh, no, no.

00:29:58.860 But some states are doing this.

00:30:00.240 So what?

00:30:00.500 If some states is doing something, it doesn't mean that Islam has approved it.

00:30:03.460 And that's why these states are disagreeing with one another, which is approved by itself.

00:30:06.760 They're not taking one source in how they behave, right?

00:30:09.540 They're not taking the Quran and the Sunnah.

00:30:10.700 So how should I have done better right there?

00:30:12.620 Because what I said was correct, right?

00:30:14.720 Yeah.

00:30:15.000 What you should have done is you should tell him you should stop jumping from...

00:30:18.360 This is the...

00:30:18.760 You highlight what he done.

00:30:19.640 You say you jumped from this, which is what I've done with you.

00:30:22.480 You say to him, look, you jumped from first saying Islam into the political state and

00:30:26.920 then jumping from the political states to politics and then claiming that politics is

00:30:29.800 not part of Islam, which is a claim I never made.

00:30:31.840 And you say to him, let's stick to the first claim that we were talking about.

00:30:34.740 What is Islam?

00:30:35.480 Ask him this question.

00:30:36.360 That's it.

00:30:36.740 Why is Islam?

00:30:37.240 What defines...

00:30:37.660 When you say Islam changes, you made the claim that the religion changes.

00:30:40.520 What is Islam?

00:30:41.100 What defines Islam and the Islamic teachings?

00:30:43.160 And don't tell me the state because this is not the definition of the religion.

00:30:45.960 The revelation is taken by every Muslim's belief from the sources, which is the Quran and

00:30:50.320 the Hadith.

00:30:51.000 And these don't change.

00:30:52.240 These are written and 1,400 years ago and we have them today.

00:30:56.240 Okay.

00:30:57.480 Do you mind if I need to call Steve?

00:31:00.020 I'm going to call him first and then can I add you to the call in about 15, 20 minutes?

00:31:03.940 Yeah, that's fine.

00:31:04.600 That's fine.

00:31:05.020 Thank you for saying around.

00:31:06.140 I appreciate your time.

00:31:07.300 No problem.

00:31:07.880 Don't be using the chat for Muslim Lantern.

00:31:09.800 Well, we got another day.

00:31:11.320 I'll call you earlier so that we can do more of this review because I respect your intellect

00:31:17.280 quite a bit.

00:31:18.140 And I want to...

00:31:19.500 Yesterday, we had a Twitter space and they were suggesting that I have more of these conversations

00:31:23.160 frequently to be able to get the reps and stuff like that.

00:31:26.480 Because I just want to make sure that I represent Islam as well as I can because I'm a very

00:31:30.820 new Muslim, but I'm going to be doing these debates more.

00:31:33.800 Yeah, that's fine.

00:31:34.340 That's totally fine, inshallah.

00:31:35.100 And we can maybe next time talk about the Aisha's age thing because we didn't address

00:31:39.580 that.

00:31:39.840 And I think it's a very ridiculous thing.

00:31:41.300 So we can talk about it, but more in time because we are short of time.

00:31:44.400 I'll be waiting around if you need me, inshallah, when you talk to Steve.

00:31:46.980 Okay, yeah, because I want to give him some dawah, but I think it's going to be too

00:31:50.340 much, I don't want to bombard him with two, you know, I'll...

00:31:53.260 No, no, no, you're right.

00:31:54.220 Okay, great.

00:31:54.700 I'll call you right back, okay?

00:31:55.840 No problem.

00:31:56.300 They're spamming Ws, by the way.

00:31:57.380 They like you.

00:31:58.200 Okay, alhamdulillah.

00:31:59.060 All right, alhamdulillah.

00:31:59.780 They're good guys, that's why.

00:32:01.020 Nice, bro.

00:32:01.640 All right.

00:32:02.140 I know, I know, but that does go back to what we were saying about like the...

00:32:06.020 Oh, here it is.

00:32:06.340 Oh, look, he's back.

00:32:10.200 This guy's...

00:32:11.280 He never had enough, you know?

00:32:13.060 Listen to the tone of coke.

00:32:17.620 What?

00:32:17.940 No, no, it's...

00:32:20.700 I think, look, I think when you feel like...

00:32:22.700 He's so funny, bro.

00:32:23.580 What?

00:32:23.840 No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:24.640 No, no, no, I mean when you feel like you're defeated, it was very hard to let go.

00:32:27.800 He's going to come back maybe in two minutes again.

00:32:32.800 It's okay.

00:32:36.440 Yeah.

00:32:38.000 So, basically, what I heard is the elephant in the room, and why Christians are talking

00:32:43.280 about, like, kind of feel defensive about, you know, the fact that Islam is the fastest

00:32:46.860 growing religion is the fact that that OnlyFans girl went on Daily Wire with Michael Knowles

00:32:51.720 recently.

00:32:52.120 I don't know if you saw that.

00:32:53.340 The former prostitute, her name is Nala or whatever, and now she's saved, and she gets

00:32:58.260 to be saved by Christianity.

00:32:59.440 So, I think some Christians feel defensive about the fact that, you know, after doing all

00:33:03.440 these degenerate things, that they can use the safety net of Christianity and, you know,

00:33:06.900 not take accountability and be saved and forgiven completely.

00:33:10.160 But also, before you talk about that, I don't know if you heard about that.

00:33:13.140 Yeah, and you see, but this is the thing.

00:33:15.040 You understood what I actually said, but he was, like, making a complete different statement

00:33:18.280 about Christians are degenerate.

00:33:19.820 It has nothing to do with it.

00:33:20.880 And I was saying, even in Islam, even any, like, faith, people can turn back always to

00:33:24.820 God when they hit rock bottom.

00:33:26.000 And it's a very simple, well-known fact, you know.

00:33:28.400 You live a very sinful life, a very bad life.

00:33:30.360 If you start, guilt start seeking, you know, and creeping up to you, then you start, you

00:33:34.920 want to turn back to God.

00:33:36.520 Sorry to interrupt you.

00:33:37.240 I just wanted to say.

00:33:37.640 No, it's fine.

00:33:38.420 But I don't want to, within the love speech community, I don't want to focus on the division

00:33:42.100 between Christianity and Islam, because it's better.

00:33:44.800 Even it says in the Quran, it's better that people are believers and disbelievers.

00:33:48.300 So, well, I didn't want the debate to start.

00:33:50.320 I thought we could have had a discussion.

00:33:51.780 But that's how he is, you know.

00:33:53.380 I got to appreciate that.

00:33:54.380 It's entertaining.

00:33:55.220 Maybe, I don't want to interrupt you.

00:33:57.360 How much time do you have?

00:33:58.520 We can maybe do debate review.

00:34:00.360 The same debate review, I can give you, okay, let's do it quickly, inshallah.

00:34:06.340 Okay.

00:34:06.800 We'll finish the quick debate review.

00:34:08.960 Okay, great.

00:34:10.540 What time do you have to leave for Fajr?

00:34:12.260 I don't want to keep you longer than.

00:34:14.180 Let me see one second.

00:34:15.180 Okay, we can do, like, 30 minutes or something, inshallah.

00:34:24.880 Oh, perfect, perfect.

00:34:26.080 Before Shuruv time, yeah.

00:34:27.280 Yeah.

00:34:27.700 I should have added you to the call with Steve earlier.

00:34:29.760 That was, like, I've never, like, felt so bad about something on a stream.

00:34:32.860 I messed up.

00:34:33.720 But that is what I did.

00:34:35.160 Yeah, I was honestly going to, like, explain to him the same thing that I was going to explain to you right now.

00:34:39.380 That he's not now in the right state of mode.

00:34:41.160 I don't think, I think you should tell him because I think he asked you this question.

00:34:43.920 Do you think I'm crazy?

00:34:45.460 And I think the reason he asked you this question is he's feeling himself that he's not being 100% able in the current state that he's in.

00:34:53.700 So I think he needs a bit of direction to know that, to take things easy now and, you know, relax a little bit and to feel that he's, like, there's a lot of emotions, like, hectic.

00:35:01.980 Yeah, I know.

00:35:02.760 That's why I messed up.

00:35:04.040 And I should have.

00:35:04.900 But what do you think, what is the Islamic belief around, like, I mean, he did literally yesterday, he was publicly slandering me.

00:35:12.060 Like, he was trying to get people to, he was calling me a liar, scumbag.

00:35:15.840 Like, he was insulting me publicly on Twitter quite a bit.

00:35:18.060 But that makes perfect sense.

00:35:19.400 It makes perfect sense because you see his state right now.

00:35:21.700 I think a lot of it, I think a lot of it is projection.

00:35:24.780 It's, like, he's living this life of gambling and perhaps you talk against gambling.

00:35:29.820 You talk about, essentially, you're not talking about him, but you talk about everything that he does.

00:35:33.820 Exactly, yeah.

00:35:34.720 So a lot of it is going to be problematic because of that.

00:35:37.400 And, yeah, it will creep in when you know it's right, when you know gambling is not good.

00:35:41.360 You know that these things are not good.

00:35:42.380 And you know someone is speaking about it.

00:35:44.260 It will creep in and then he will have a reaction.

00:35:46.460 But he's not in a stable state.

00:35:48.260 So it makes sense that he will go online and say different things, which probably he doesn't mean.

00:35:51.900 Right.

00:35:52.260 That's why I didn't get, like, really upset.

00:35:54.480 But how much forgiveness is allowed?

00:35:56.160 Like, what's the Islamic ruling on forgiveness and about defending yourself and extending this?

00:36:01.980 Because the reason why people like him feel comfortable attacking me publicly is because I think,

00:36:08.620 I genuinely think I'm held to a different standard than other influencers.

00:36:11.960 Right?

00:36:12.240 Like, I, like, he goes online and attacks and then people assume that I should be good-hearted and not, you know,

00:36:18.680 defend myself and just immediately forgive.

00:36:21.480 Should I?

00:36:21.860 I think you're the pinata of the streaming world, essentially.

00:36:26.160 You know the pinata, you know?

00:36:27.540 Yeah, I get it.

00:36:28.840 Yeah.

00:36:29.700 Essentially, this is how they look at you in a way.

00:36:31.900 And it's easy because everyone is criticizing you.

00:36:33.880 Then I can also criticize you, essentially.

00:36:36.540 And I'm tired of that happening.

00:36:37.900 So at what point should I, like, defend myself?

00:36:40.200 When can I defend myself and not just do Dawa?

00:36:42.200 That's like the crossroads of hitting.

00:36:44.520 No, no, you should.

00:36:44.940 You should.

00:36:45.400 Even when you talk to him, you could defend yourself.

00:36:47.100 You could say that it doesn't make sense to do this online and it doesn't make sense to say what you said.

00:36:52.000 You could even get him to say he's sorry because he did something which is wrong.

00:36:55.440 And he didn't apologize publicly, at least.

00:36:57.660 I mean, he did, but it is what it is.

00:37:00.320 Whatever.

00:37:00.880 Let's do this debate review.

00:37:02.100 But inshallah, I'll do better.

00:37:03.760 Inshallah, I'll do better.

00:37:04.680 Fine.

00:37:06.380 Okay.

00:37:07.080 Let's go to the age of consent part because that's probably the best.

00:37:13.440 That's the best part of the debate.

00:37:15.080 I'll make sure I don't scroll past it again, inshallah.

00:37:17.000 I think you already did it or no?

00:37:20.020 Or up?

00:37:22.880 No.

00:37:23.500 Maybe you go down.

00:37:24.460 I'm not sure.

00:37:25.840 No, no, it's down yet.

00:37:27.680 Here.

00:37:28.120 Uh-oh.

00:37:28.380 Really?

00:37:28.800 I don't.

00:37:30.620 Okay, but why do you think that you stopped there at this word?

00:37:33.740 It's because being on Twitter, I'm not saying that you have a contract for it, but being on this website so long with people that run it that also don't believe in God, they always...

00:37:41.000 My apologies for the music.

00:37:43.160 That was...

00:37:43.920 That's him.

00:37:44.340 Your morality system.

00:37:45.420 It's always updating and it's always changing.

00:37:47.860 It has to.

00:37:48.720 It has to.

00:37:50.320 No, then we start tolerating crazy things, right?

00:37:52.960 If it always updates and changes, we don't know where we draw the line.

00:37:55.420 If we never update our morality, like Disney said, people would be fucking kids now and it would be accepted.

00:38:02.100 Okay, let me...

00:38:03.180 You have to understand...

00:38:04.180 If you can stop it for a second.

00:38:06.260 Look, there's something very important there.

00:38:07.780 What he's proposing there is something...

00:38:11.080 He's proposing that morality is changing.

00:38:14.040 It's not...

00:38:14.320 It's not tactic.

00:38:15.580 It's not absolute.

00:38:16.220 It's not objective.

00:38:17.200 Which means there is no morality.

00:38:20.200 This is...

00:38:20.740 It's a very important point that you should bring up.

00:38:22.840 Because if I say yesterday I believed that stealing was wrong and today I believe stealing is right, that means that stealing in itself is not right or wrong.

00:38:31.620 It just depends on the society and community.

00:38:33.800 His community just told him today that you could have completely annihilated him with the statement that he made.

00:38:37.880 I know.

00:38:38.100 It's a complete...

00:38:38.680 I'm mad that I didn't say that.

00:38:39.920 You're right.

00:38:40.440 There's an objective morality that exists outside of people's actions.

00:38:44.260 So the fact that it can change means that there is no morality.

00:38:47.920 Exactly.

00:38:49.160 And when he makes the statement and says that this is the case, for example, you could say to him that you go back before the 1960s, what was the position towards homosexuals?

00:38:58.080 They were stoning them and actually killing them publicly.

00:39:01.120 And then later on it changes because of the society.

00:39:03.040 So essentially he's saying if the society says something is right, it's right.

00:39:06.320 And if it says something is wrong, it's wrong.

00:39:08.060 So if society says it's okay to get married at the age of 10, it becomes okay.

00:39:11.640 If society says it's okay to do whatever it is, incest, then it becomes okay.

00:39:15.200 And you've got in the U.S. now in certain courts, people pushing cases of them wanting to do incest or to get married to their cousins.

00:39:22.820 Not cousins because cousins we don't consider incest, but let's say to their sisters or to their mothers or whatever it is.

00:39:28.920 There are actual court cases on this.

00:39:32.220 Yeah.

00:39:32.560 And what's the answer when...

00:39:34.720 I'm sure that's happened to you before when the age of consent thing comes up.

00:39:37.580 So I think it was a little bit earlier, right, Chad?

00:39:39.400 It was like, someone give me the timestamp.

00:39:40.960 I think it's around here.

00:39:42.540 Is that a real question or is that a control one?

00:39:44.580 That's a real question.

00:39:45.580 How do you...

00:39:45.940 So when you decide what's right...

00:39:46.960 One second, stop, stop.

00:39:48.880 There's something important here.

00:39:50.460 Something called psychological issue here.

00:39:53.480 I don't know why you just asked him now, but I'm sure you asked him a very good question.

00:39:57.180 Because what he did is he wanted you to repeat the question.

00:39:59.440 And this happened psychologically is where you want to think about something.

00:40:03.040 Like, for example, you asked me a question.

00:40:04.740 I don't have the answer straight away.

00:40:06.500 So you asked to give yourself more time to think.

00:40:08.840 Exactly.

00:40:09.420 So go back.

00:40:09.900 What did you ask him?

00:40:10.560 That's very important.

00:40:14.100 I got the brookie internet.

00:40:16.520 Hold on.

00:40:18.420 Hold on.

00:40:19.000 My bad.

00:40:20.760 My bad.

00:40:21.520 That's fine.

00:40:21.940 It was 11.3.

00:40:23.180 Yeah, it was like, I'll go to 10.53.

00:40:24.740 I just got to...

00:40:25.200 I know what I'm saying.

00:40:25.920 I got to find the full debate.

00:40:26.940 It was right.

00:40:28.020 Sorry, Chad.

00:40:28.500 Sorry, Chad.

00:40:28.960 I'm going to open up in a new tab.

00:40:31.580 Right here.

00:40:32.300 I'm going to open up here.

00:40:33.120 Is that a real question or is that a control?

00:40:38.880 What do you mean?

00:40:39.860 Life as a sin or not.

00:40:41.760 I make profit on my life off my lifestyle.

00:40:44.640 Not off the sin, off my lifestyle.

00:40:46.600 I just do my thing.

00:40:47.740 It is not guided by some book or some scroll or some fucking writing in the sky.

00:40:52.900 It's what I want to be fucking doing.

00:40:54.360 So how do you...

00:40:54.840 What's the response to that right there?

00:40:57.560 He...

00:40:58.120 This is the same thing.

00:40:59.700 He's saying morality is subjective.

00:41:00.980 If morality is subjective, depending on your own opinions, there's no right and wrong.

00:41:05.460 If he says that X is wrong, like whatever term he's saying using the word F-A-G-E is wrong,

00:41:12.780 that's not objectively true.

00:41:14.400 That's just his opinion.

00:41:15.400 And your opinion can be the opposite to it.

00:41:17.400 And both of you can be right in a subjective morality worldview.

00:41:20.600 There's no right or wrong.

00:41:21.400 You cannot say this statement is objectively wrong to be said.

00:41:24.000 So essentially, if he says to you, it's what I like.

00:41:26.800 There is no scripture.

00:41:27.520 There's nothing that holds my objective morality.

00:41:29.480 Then he cannot make any moral arguments against you.

00:41:34.040 There is no moral arguments you can make unless there is an objective standard.

00:41:37.840 How do you know what's right and wrong if you don't get it from God?

00:41:40.900 Ah, you see, you asked him the question about morality, which is the most important thing.

00:41:43.940 Where do you get morality from?

00:41:45.300 Which would be a very difficult question for the atheists because the atheists in the end has to think...

00:41:49.520 They don't think about this question.

00:41:50.980 And when they do, they realize it's just from their society, from their community, from their upbringing,

00:41:54.480 and from their own desires.

00:41:55.540 And that's why it's subjective.

00:41:56.380 And therefore, he cannot tell you this is right or wrong anyways.

00:41:59.760 So I did make the right points.

00:42:02.300 You asked the question, but you didn't make the point.

00:42:04.800 Okay.

00:42:05.060 About the fact that when he said to you that morality can be relative and this and that,

00:42:08.520 then there is no morality.

00:42:09.820 Then what's the point why you keep saying this is right or wrong anyways?

00:42:12.680 He cannot say right or wrong, essentially.

00:42:15.940 Is that a real question or is that a controller?

00:42:17.700 It's a real question.

00:42:18.640 How do you decide what's right or wrong?

00:42:20.480 How do you know what's going to work?

00:42:21.500 Just overall, just morality, values, just overall worldviews, just generally what I know about society and history.

00:42:29.380 And I try to have a good understanding.

00:42:30.840 Society?

00:42:31.360 So where does it come from?

00:42:32.600 Because there's been a lot of people...

00:42:33.360 History.

00:42:34.280 I just told you.

00:42:34.880 What did you say?

00:42:35.860 I said, did you see?

00:42:37.000 He just said just a bunch of nothing.

00:42:38.520 Morality, history.

00:42:39.360 The way this is...

00:42:40.000 It's just words, yeah.

00:42:41.540 Because he had to think about it.

00:42:42.960 And then he ended up bringing...

00:42:44.480 There's no answer.

00:42:45.460 I should have hammered it home harder here.

00:42:47.180 Let's see.

00:42:47.740 Maybe I did.

00:42:48.400 I don't remember what I said.

00:42:49.140 History, yeah.

00:42:50.380 History?

00:42:50.940 So which historians are good, which ones are bad?

00:42:53.680 What do you mean?

00:42:53.940 Which ones are bad?

00:42:54.620 There's...

00:42:54.920 Not the way to ask.

00:42:55.780 Wait, which ones?

00:42:57.500 I'm asking you.

00:42:58.640 You brought...

00:42:59.100 You're saying that that's where you get it from.

00:43:00.440 How do you know who's good and who's bad in history?

00:43:02.940 Dude, I try to navigate the world with what I know overall.

00:43:06.860 And I get to them as much as I can with what was taught to me, what the schools tell me, what society.

00:43:11.940 And I try to go above and beyond to fucking learn more about the world.

00:43:14.040 So you get your morality from school?

00:43:16.460 For all the elements that I can.

00:43:18.080 I mean, if you take only your morality from some book that was written a long time ago, I mean, you're bound to be maybe outdated on some of it, no?

00:43:28.520 Where do you respond to that?

00:43:30.700 Yeah, this is the point that we're making, right?

00:43:32.940 He said, you essentially said to him that you're taking your morality from school.

00:43:37.680 Yes, he's taking his morality from society.

00:43:39.480 It's subjective.

00:43:39.940 Now he's saying, he's asking you a question.

00:43:42.380 Actually, it's a question of defeat.

00:43:43.900 Then, okay, if you're bound to take your morality from a book, then you're bound to be wrong.

00:43:48.860 Yes, if that book was not God's word, but this book is God's word.

00:43:51.680 And therefore, it cannot be wrong in any way, shape, or form.

00:43:54.840 And whatever it is, it's objective morality.

00:43:56.580 God knows more you than you and me.

00:43:58.120 And by definition, whatever he determines and says will always be true and always be right.

00:44:02.240 But in his worldview, killing 2,000 years ago can be right, but today is wrong.

00:44:08.600 Slavery can be 2,000 years ago right, but today is wrong.

00:44:11.040 Because society at that time decided that slavery is right.

00:44:13.380 I should have brought up the changing moralities of human moralities throughout history.

00:44:17.700 Yeah, and how incest is allowed.

00:44:19.320 Wait, let's see what I said.

00:44:20.880 How am I doing?

00:44:21.700 What do you think?

00:44:23.220 You're doing okay.

00:44:24.260 But when you say historians, for example, this is not what you should.

00:44:28.260 Basically, you should hammer the correct point.

00:44:30.620 That is to people.

00:44:31.320 People cannot create morality.

00:44:32.980 Yeah, instead of historians.

00:44:33.660 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:35.720 No, absolutely not.

00:44:37.000 I mean, God is not outdated.

00:44:39.460 That is your worldview, and I respect it.

00:44:42.080 I respect it.

00:44:42.460 No, no, and then we update it, and let's be real.

00:44:44.940 What version is that?

00:44:46.980 I said you update it.

00:44:48.440 I said you update it.

00:44:49.400 Did it patch already?

00:44:50.760 What patch are we on now?

00:44:52.300 I said you updated it, and that's the reason why you're drawing the line.

00:44:55.700 No, I did not update anything.

00:44:56.840 I don't abide by it.

00:44:59.640 Okay, so you didn't give me an answer to where you get your morality from.

00:45:03.000 I told you, from the information I haven't given, navigating the world.

00:45:06.840 That's it.

00:45:07.900 As much as I can from a lot of places.

00:45:09.480 Navigating the world.

00:45:10.020 Correct.

00:45:10.360 So it's always updating.

00:45:11.240 So it's always updating, and it's always changing.

00:45:13.440 Yeah, 100%.

00:45:14.280 Yes, it's always updating.

00:45:15.100 Yes.

00:45:16.380 Okay.

00:45:16.960 Because it's...

00:45:17.500 See, here he didn't hammer the point.

00:45:18.620 He conceded.

00:45:20.000 But he didn't hammer the point.

00:45:21.400 So he conceded, but I didn't hammer it home.

00:45:23.680 Yeah, no.

00:45:24.120 No, he just conceded that his morality is always updating.

00:45:26.280 But he didn't say the problem with the morality was updating.

00:45:29.040 So there's no argument made then.

00:45:31.080 Okay.

00:45:31.340 Because the man, if you...

00:45:34.760 I like some of you guys who like the word man and male.

00:45:37.820 Because I think overall, mankind strives to be better.

00:45:41.340 Once we know more, we can change things.

00:45:43.320 Sometimes textbooks are wrong, like science, and they have to fix it.

00:45:46.760 They know more.

00:45:47.920 They improve.

00:45:48.680 I try to adapt and add new parts of the machine.

00:45:51.060 That is a stronger machine.

00:45:52.440 It's what I do.

00:45:53.320 It's what I think people should try to do.

00:45:54.500 So your morality could be different tomorrow than it is today?

00:45:57.860 Absolutely.

00:45:58.380 100%.

00:45:58.940 Because there are things that we don't know yet about human cognition, psychology, just social

00:46:06.720 viewers.

00:46:07.200 We just don't know some things, and we have to adapt to new information.

00:46:11.660 Also, literally, even religions literally do this.

00:46:15.760 Okay?

00:46:16.000 Like, even religions...

00:46:16.800 Okay, so I'm trying to get to the...

00:46:19.720 What's the time stamp for age?

00:46:21.940 Go ahead.

00:46:23.080 Yeah, but the thing is, you see, he said science, and he made a big, huge, a huge blunder

00:46:29.220 there, which is confusing science, which is basically a tool that we use to study the

00:46:34.860 world.

00:46:35.100 And the reason it changes is because not having enough information, enough input regarding

00:46:39.740 the specific thing.

00:46:41.040 For example, you increase, you know, you have a number of data, and then you need to increase

00:46:45.080 it.

00:46:45.260 When you get more data, you realize that your previous conclusion was incorrect.

00:46:48.400 Morality is not the same.

00:46:49.340 Like, killing innocent people from the probably first human being until today, is it different?

00:46:54.980 It's not about, like, gaining more information.

00:46:57.460 Morality is not relative in that sense, that it changes based on the amount of data that

00:47:01.720 you, you know, acquire.

00:47:04.240 And this is a huge blunder that is making confusing morality with the scientific method.

00:47:08.480 It's completely, completely ignorant, I would say.

00:47:12.140 Okay, um, well, they give me the timestamp, give me the timestamp, uh, ways Bronson for

00:47:18.760 the, oh, 7.30, okay.

00:47:21.260 That's right.

00:47:22.480 7.30, really?

00:47:23.740 Yeah, 7.30.

00:47:24.840 Thank you, Halal, Ko, appreciate you, bro.

00:47:26.160 Yeah, come on, wait, wait, wait, wait, make a answer, yeah, don't bail him out.

00:47:28.920 Make a answer.

00:47:29.380 Why is pedophilia wrong, Sneeko?

00:47:31.120 Because it's not how a relationship, because God says it's wrong.

00:47:34.680 No.

00:47:34.940 That's really, that's the reason why, hold on.

00:47:36.620 So, Sneeko, no, no, no, wait, this is so easy.

00:47:38.200 So, if God tells you that you can fuck kids, like he did with, uh, Muhammad or whatever,

00:47:42.240 you think that's okay then?

00:47:43.260 Yeah.

00:47:43.620 That's not what happened.

00:47:45.520 No, no, no, I'm asking you, if God tells you, Sneeko, I think that fucking kids is okay,

00:47:49.280 then you would change your mind on it tomorrow.

00:47:50.620 There has to be a justification for everything.

00:47:53.000 Oh, hold on.

00:47:53.720 God didn't say it, though.

00:47:54.840 God has to justify himself?

00:47:55.340 God has to justify it?

00:47:56.600 If you're talking about the need for a justification, then that means something's not good because

00:48:00.440 God says it.

00:48:01.340 It's only good because he's giving you whatever the justification is.

00:48:03.900 So, God saying things doesn't mean anything, then.

00:48:05.840 Yeah, I see, he says a lot of words, like, in an emotional, so what are you saying right

00:48:10.380 here?

00:48:10.500 What's the response to this?

00:48:12.140 He's not wrong in what he's saying, in a way.

00:48:14.760 It's not, he's wrong and he's not wrong in the same time.

00:48:16.700 Meaning, he caught you saying something wrong.

00:48:18.740 What did I say that was wrong?

00:48:20.040 Which is, the idea of the justification is needed.

00:48:21.980 Justification needs to be given.

00:48:23.500 Now, the thing is, what he's saying.

00:48:24.700 So, we don't, we don't, we just follow God blindly?

00:48:28.020 Yeah, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna comment this, so I'm gonna, about to explain that.

00:48:30.660 Okay.

00:48:31.360 Morality, objectively, which is what you said in the beginning, which is perfect, is

00:48:34.040 that morality is based on the Quran and the Hadith, it's based on God.

00:48:37.620 Morality is based on what God tells us to do.

00:48:39.560 Now, he asked you a question, what if God says, do this hideous act, whatever hideous

00:48:43.440 act it is?

00:48:44.880 Now, we say that this question itself is nonsensical.

00:48:48.340 It's a non-sequitur.

00:48:49.140 It's not a correct question, logically.

00:48:51.740 Why?

00:48:52.200 Because the attributes of God, by definition, mean that he will never, he will never command

00:48:57.140 such a thing.

00:48:58.040 Therefore, this is a ridiculous argument, just like, can he create a rock that he cannot

00:49:01.160 lift?

00:49:01.640 If he's all-powerful, then this question is nonsensical.

00:49:03.980 So, the same, he's making the same nonsensical question.

00:49:06.120 He trapped you with it there.

00:49:07.260 And then you change your position, which is an issue.

00:49:09.040 You should double down and say, yes, it will give, whatever God commands is right, but

00:49:13.140 God will never command something wrong because of his nature, of good nature, just nature.

00:49:16.980 This is how...

00:49:17.560 I fell for the trap.

00:49:18.460 I didn't see it.

00:49:19.040 Yeah, and the thing is, Allah says,

00:49:22.620 إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَيَأْمُرُ بِالْفَحْشَةِ

00:49:23.820 Allah does not order indecency.

00:49:26.400 أَتَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ مَا لَتَعْلَمُونَ

00:49:27.720 Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?

00:49:29.260 So, Allah is telling us in the Quran, Allah does not order that immorality or indecency

00:49:33.140 because, by definition, his nature would, by necessity, that he does not command these

00:49:40.060 type of things.

00:49:40.900 So, that question is irrational by itself.

00:49:43.600 And that's what I would say.

00:49:44.620 I would say, yes, still, morality is objective, yes.

00:49:46.640 Yeah, I know, and I know I've debated him so many times over the years that I know that's

00:49:50.600 what he does, just shift the goalposts and ask questions that kind of derail you from

00:49:53.160 the topic.

00:49:53.860 But he does it so often, so fast, and I'm debating two people at the same time.

00:49:57.440 I'm trying to go and speak to him about this word and his morality.

00:50:00.300 And then here, it's like, it's, um, it's a little...

00:50:03.600 Yeah, okay, let's just keep on.

00:50:04.380 Yeah, and he screams, and then there's a justification then for why pedophiles is

00:50:08.140 bad.

00:50:09.320 No, I said that, and then he screams and laughs, and this is the same thing that was happening

00:50:13.000 with our friend a few minutes ago.

00:50:14.540 This is not how discussions happen, you know?

00:50:16.280 There has to be a level of moderation where you allow the other person to respond and

00:50:19.040 speak, you know?

00:50:19.740 But this happens usually when people are afraid.

00:50:21.800 They want to trip you over it, essentially.

00:50:24.020 They don't want to allow you to have your time to speak.

00:50:25.880 They don't want to allow...

00:50:26.440 Yeah, they're talking over and interrupting me and, like, insulting and stuff, yeah.

00:50:29.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

00:50:33.020 Because it's not...

00:50:34.060 Kids cannot consent.

00:50:35.280 Kids are not able to make the decision.

00:50:37.080 You got there.

00:50:37.860 You fell for the trap.

00:50:38.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:39.380 You fell for the trap.

00:50:40.400 And the thing is that...

00:50:41.680 Sorry, sorry.

00:50:42.200 Stop the listen.

00:50:43.140 No, no, no.

00:50:43.800 Well, I would have said that, okay?

00:50:45.460 If he says...

00:50:46.180 If he agrees to this idea that it's based on consent...

00:50:49.680 Okay, I'll ask him, what is the definition of consent?

00:50:51.580 Google right now, according to the U.S. law, for example, what is the definition

00:50:54.560 of consent?

00:50:55.080 I'll show you how vague the definition is.

00:50:56.640 Because, you know, all of these problems happen in cases, like...

00:51:00.780 This is a crazy thing to delete.

00:51:02.580 I mean, this is a crazy thing to search.

00:51:04.580 Consent, permission for something to happen, or agreement to do something?

00:51:08.660 Okay, but it's not as simple as that.

00:51:10.140 Continue.

00:51:10.460 There's more to the definition.

00:51:13.020 The verb says give permission for something to happen.

00:51:17.160 Okay, so...

00:51:18.280 No, but they're not going to accept this definition, because some definitions...

00:51:21.660 No, you should say according to U.S. law, not just the definition of consent.

00:51:24.440 Oh, U.S. law definition?

00:51:25.700 Yes, yes, U.S. law.

00:51:26.820 Consent is agreement or permission expressed through affirmative, voluntary words or actions

00:51:30.680 that are mutually understandable to all parties involved to engage in a specific sexual act at a time.

00:51:35.780 Consent can be withdrawn at any time as long as it is clearly communicated.

00:51:39.640 Yeah, so even that definition is different than the one I saw.

00:51:42.740 And this is the whole point.

00:51:43.920 When you Google, when he says consent, this is a very big term when he uses.

00:51:47.480 According to the law, what is consent according to the U.S. law is not even agreed upon.

00:51:50.860 And some of the definitions they will say to you, for example, consent is something to do with, you know,

00:51:56.680 being able to make a decision or something like that.

00:51:58.960 And then they don't define how do we determine who is able to make a decision, who is not able to make a decision.

00:52:04.280 We're not talking about the rest.

00:52:05.640 We're not talking about...

00:52:06.380 This is agreed upon.

00:52:07.380 We're saying in general, when do you determine that someone is able to make his decisions?

00:52:10.840 And if you just say that consent is agreeing to something, then this can happen for anyone at any age when they're able to communicate, essentially.

00:52:18.800 So this definition itself is problematic.

00:52:20.660 You see?

00:52:21.220 So when he ever uses the term consent, this is an issue.

00:52:23.900 You have to define to us why it's consent.

00:52:25.420 I know.

00:52:25.580 I was the one who brought it up, though, because I fell into the trap.

00:52:28.120 And I'm just like...

00:52:28.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:29.300 So I wouldn't even go into that debate, to be honest.

00:52:31.080 I know.

00:52:31.400 It's a pointless debate.

00:52:32.180 I should have stuck to...

00:52:33.140 Yeah.

00:52:33.800 So the defense here is God is all perfect.

00:52:36.920 So the question is nonsensical.

00:52:38.060 He wouldn't ever ask us to do something that is disgusting.

00:52:41.780 Because God is all perfect.

00:52:42.700 That situation would never come about.

00:52:44.460 God is all perfect.

00:52:44.740 Yeah, his attributes.

00:52:45.680 His attributes.

00:52:46.420 Basically, whatever God does is based on what God is.

00:52:49.960 God's attributes is perfect.

00:52:51.700 Maximally perfect attributes.

00:52:52.740 Attributes, loving, just, etc.

00:52:54.060 So if this is the case, then you don't do anything opposite to these attributes, by definition.

00:52:59.720 Good job.

00:53:00.240 So...

00:53:00.640 Don't good job me.

00:53:02.580 It goes down to what we see from God.

00:53:04.740 If God created it.

00:53:05.740 No, because you don't see God.

00:53:07.120 There's no purpose.

00:53:09.740 There's no purpose for a man to kiss another man.

00:53:11.780 Listen, if you need a book to tell you not to fuck kids, I don't know what to tell you.

00:53:15.400 Okay?

00:53:15.580 But most people can figure out why it's wrong on their own.

00:53:17.420 And you got to the answer in the end, which is good.

00:53:19.100 Maybe you need that book.

00:53:19.820 Which is good.

00:53:21.100 Which is good.

00:53:21.680 Why it's wrong on their own.

00:53:22.740 You got to the answer in the end, which is good.

00:53:24.420 Maybe you need that book.

00:53:25.100 Which is good.

00:53:25.580 Which is good.

00:53:26.480 Which is good.

00:53:26.980 Okay?

00:53:27.920 And now we're just talking over each other.

00:53:29.360 Because, uh...

00:53:30.080 But you can't...

00:53:30.600 You got to stay stoic completely.

00:53:32.120 Um...

00:53:32.600 Overall, like most of the time I did.

00:53:34.280 But, yeah.

00:53:34.560 You need that book.

00:53:35.180 No, because you compared...

00:53:36.840 You compared homosexuality...

00:53:37.560 No, no, no.

00:53:39.100 Sneak out.

00:53:39.520 Sneak out.

00:53:39.760 Wait, wait, wait.

00:53:40.340 Wait, wait.

00:53:40.840 No, make an answer to this question.

00:53:42.040 No, no.

00:53:42.440 Hold on.

00:53:43.020 Why is it, then, that homosexuality, which can be practiced between two consenting adults,

00:53:48.340 why should that be a bad thing?

00:53:50.920 The answer is because Allah says it's wrong.

00:53:53.840 Exactly.

00:53:54.540 And where did we say morality is coming from?

00:53:56.920 It's always where it's phrased.

00:53:57.960 Always go back to Allah.

00:53:58.700 But I fell into the trap last time of saying consent, so now I have to give, like, the

00:54:03.260 societal answer instead of the...

00:54:05.300 That it all goes back to Allah.

00:54:06.720 Even if you put this stupid US definition about consent that can be withdrawn at any time,

00:54:11.020 there's a woman, she was drunk, and then she says, no, I actually consent, no, I didn't

00:54:14.240 consent, and then you have problems happening in law, and it's a whole big problem, actually.

00:54:18.760 If you want to search that, even consent in medical operations.

00:54:21.840 When is a patient in a, you know, psychological state where is he able to consent to being

00:54:26.920 okay to continue the operation or not?

00:54:29.180 People think these are just words, yeah, I just consent, everyone understand what it

00:54:32.160 means.

00:54:32.700 No, no, there is legalities behind it, because there is laws behind it as well.

00:54:35.520 Yeah, I know people in the chat are like, oh, we all know what consent is.

00:54:38.080 What is it exactly?

00:54:39.100 Because of the fact that they can withdraw...

00:54:40.160 Give us a definition.

00:54:41.140 Exactly.

00:54:41.620 Give us a definition.

00:54:42.520 And also, if women can't consent when they're drunk, but, like, men who are drunk and have

00:54:46.220 sex, like, they never are able to withdraw consent.

00:54:48.320 That doesn't happen.

00:54:49.160 The definition, it does make a lot of sense.

00:54:50.740 What if she's deaf?

00:54:51.980 What if, like, she's mute and she can nod her head?

00:54:53.980 Does that count?

00:54:54.880 What if at the time...

00:54:56.020 There's...

00:54:56.700 It's not a consistent answer.

00:54:57.940 So, yeah, you do bring up a good point.

00:55:00.140 Always...

00:55:00.820 So, the answer for these disbelieving questions, that always goes back to Allah.

00:55:04.040 Like, God created...

00:55:05.200 To the moral questions, yes.

00:55:06.460 The moral question is always back to Allah.

00:55:08.340 And the fact is, any atheists you can ask, this is their destruction of their worldview,

00:55:13.860 because none of them can give you an objective standard for morality.

00:55:16.780 In the end, all of them will say morality is subjective in any way, depending on society.

00:55:20.420 Their own opinions, whatever answer they give.

00:55:22.860 And that would mean there is no morality.

00:55:24.720 Because it's just your opinion and my opinion can be different to your opinion.

00:55:27.200 The same thing can be right or wrong, depending on who says it and which society you live in.

00:55:31.280 And if this is the case, then you cannot make moral judgments about other people.

00:55:35.400 You can only say, I think this.

00:55:37.000 You cannot go to Sneeko and say, Sneeko, this is wrong what you're doing.

00:55:39.520 Or what you Muslims are doing.

00:55:40.660 You don't have a moral authority to make objective claims about morality about other people.

00:55:45.660 It's not a bad thing.

00:55:49.060 It's just not right.

00:55:50.080 There's no purpose that it's serving.

00:55:51.620 What are you doing that for?

00:55:52.600 The purpose it's serving is two people that love each other might want to be in a relationship

00:55:55.740 and build a relationship and build a household and do that together.

00:55:58.100 That might be something they want to do.

00:55:59.920 It doesn't serve a greater purpose.

00:56:01.100 Do you know what I would have brought up in there?

00:56:03.040 I'll say, fantastic.

00:56:03.880 Okay, a brother and a brother love each other.

00:56:07.140 Incest argument.

00:56:07.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:08.620 But you know it's wrong.

00:56:09.900 This is his argument now.

00:56:10.980 I'll use the same kind of justifications he used.

00:56:13.880 And by the way, he can never give you a reason why incest is wrong.

00:56:16.260 And if he says birth, that's why I said a brother and a brother.

00:56:18.540 They're not going to have kids.

00:56:19.360 So you bring all of this stupid argument.

00:56:21.000 Oh, child isn't going to be deformed and this and that.

00:56:22.740 You can even use contraceptions.

00:56:23.880 But I'll tell you a brother and a brother.

00:56:25.340 I'll be very generous with you.

00:56:26.500 Okay, what if a brother and a brother want to engage in that behavior?

00:56:29.020 And he will end up saying it's okay, by the way.

00:56:31.060 And I can assume individuals like this, they don't care.

00:56:33.520 They will say, yeah, it's fine.

00:56:35.060 So then don't come and tell us why it's wrong.

00:56:36.880 I should have brought that up.

00:56:37.580 This is your view.

00:56:38.500 Yeah.

00:56:40.140 I'm so annoyed now.

00:56:41.700 Every single thing in your life has to serve a greater purpose?

00:56:44.460 Exactly.

00:56:45.280 No.

00:56:46.540 What's the answer to that?

00:56:48.700 Did I answer correctly?

00:56:51.040 Well, you are, but you are given it from a Muslim point of view, right?

00:56:54.560 So it's a correct answer.

00:56:56.020 But obviously for them to accept the answer,

00:56:57.800 first you have to establish Islam as the truth.

00:56:59.780 And then this idea, the worldview of Islam becomes true as well.

00:57:03.860 You get what I'm saying?

00:57:04.440 So it's not going to work as an argument against them, essentially.

00:57:06.260 Because I haven't established that yet.

00:57:07.800 Yes.

00:57:08.260 Yes.

00:57:09.100 It was a question.

00:57:10.520 It was a question.

00:57:10.920 You didn't answer it.

00:57:11.500 It was a question.

00:57:12.060 He asked you a question.

00:57:14.480 He's just mumbling around.

00:57:15.680 He's freaking knows.

00:57:16.260 I said everything has to fulfill a greater purpose.

00:57:20.600 Why would you do anything for no reason?

00:57:23.480 Sneko, Sneko, you bring the book a lot and whatever you read a lot.

00:57:26.520 You reference that a lot into what's good and wrong.

00:57:29.060 But I don't think that the fucking book told you to fucking sit to Red Rock and fucking gamble.

00:57:33.260 I think that's usually called a haram order.

00:57:35.040 I don't think people...

00:57:36.120 Yeah, ad hominem attack.

00:57:37.140 You saw me at the casino last year.

00:57:38.760 I think you should do that in that book, does it?

00:57:44.420 So why'd you do it then?

00:57:45.700 Gambling is a sin.

00:57:46.700 So why'd you do it then?

00:57:48.100 Because I'm not...

00:57:48.920 No muscle is perfect.

00:57:50.000 Like, that's a weird...

00:57:50.740 Okay, so you pick and choose.

00:57:52.600 And then you choose how wrong we were going to be.

00:57:55.180 And then you dictate what people should be doing based on that same book then.

00:57:59.840 No, we should strive to be perfect, right?

00:58:02.460 So that was an example of me sinning.

00:58:04.380 And I don't publicize those sins because I know that we have an audience.

00:58:07.120 And it's important that we do the right thing.

00:58:09.300 So you only publicize, but you don't hold those values yourself.

00:58:13.840 That's kind of...

00:58:14.620 That's grifting.

00:58:16.060 That's where you're just a grifter.

00:58:16.940 It's not grifting.

00:58:17.560 It's taking responsibility to promote the right thing.

00:58:19.680 No, that's grifting.

00:58:20.720 That's grifting.

00:58:21.500 I don't think you know what that word means, XQC.

00:58:23.520 The difference between me and you is that I'll sin.

00:58:25.840 Like, there's a lot of things that I don't publicize.

00:58:27.680 But you profit off of it.

00:58:29.320 Like, you make a lot of money.

00:58:30.400 You make millions of dollars selling sin and I don't.

00:58:32.740 And we should take the responsibility to not do these things.

00:58:34.960 Do I sin every day?

00:58:35.880 Of course.

00:58:36.040 See, because I don't see life as a sin or not.

00:58:38.920 I make profit on my life off my lifestyle.

00:58:41.780 Not off the sin, off my lifestyle.

00:58:43.740 I just do my thing.

00:58:45.040 It is not guided by some book or some scroll or some fucking writing in the sky.

00:58:50.020 It's what I want to be.

00:58:51.700 Yeah, you see the thing there.

00:58:52.900 And this is the whole point, right?

00:58:54.140 He makes up his own morality.

00:58:55.620 He's the god of his own self, essentially.

00:58:57.360 He's saying, I determine what...

00:58:58.960 That's what the Quran says.

00:58:59.740 Have you seen the person who took his desire as his own god?

00:59:01.840 His desire is what determines for him what is right and wrong.

00:59:04.480 But the thing is, he says, it's just me.

00:59:06.400 No, it's not just you anymore.

00:59:07.540 When you're making content for hundreds of millions of people that listen to you, you are influencing them.

00:59:13.120 They take you as a role model.

00:59:14.220 They like you.

00:59:14.900 They take the political views from you.

00:59:16.760 Take the world views from you.

00:59:17.960 So when you tell them about doing these wrong things or you do it in front of them, it's just normal.

00:59:22.660 Number one, it normalizes them in the society.

00:59:25.500 Number two, it encourages them to do it.

00:59:27.780 While if I do it on secret, it's still wrong.

00:59:30.320 But this is between me and God in the sense that I'm not going to influence other people with the behavior of the sin that I'm doing.

00:59:35.760 I'm trying to work on myself, trying to get better.

00:59:37.880 And that's why Islam teaches that you should not publicize the sins.

00:59:40.760 And the prophet said that people will be forgiven except those who make their sins public.

00:59:45.000 Because they influence the society.

00:59:46.140 They normalize the sin and they encourage others to do it.

00:59:52.960 So what should I have said there?

00:59:57.000 Exactly what I was just telling you.

00:59:58.520 Okay, that the prophet said that.

01:00:00.640 No, no.

01:00:01.260 When he says, this is just me, I live my life, you tell him, no, it's not just you.

01:00:04.460 It's not just you.

01:00:05.700 You're influencing millions of people who watch you that you are a role model for.

01:00:09.600 That you encourage them to do this thing and you normalize it for them.

01:00:13.120 And you profit off of it.

01:00:14.060 Yeah, but then he will say this is not right or wrong.

01:00:16.640 And then we'll come back to the idea.

01:00:17.740 Then how do you determine right or wrong?

01:00:18.840 If it's just your opinion of what is right or wrong, then you just tell me, what's the problem in telling people to go do things against the law?

01:00:25.760 Obviously, we're not encouraging anything against the law.

01:00:27.860 But we're saying, what is the wrong then in telling people the most extreme things?

01:00:31.000 If there's no right or wrong.

01:00:31.980 If it's just your opinion and my opinion, then I can say whatever I want to my viewers and anyone can say whatever they want.

01:00:39.340 But this whole discussion is just pretending that you're using that word is a whole big problem.

01:00:43.100 But it's okay to, you know, encourage people to gamble and do all of these different things.

01:00:46.720 But to say a word for a specific group of people now has become the end of the planet.

01:00:50.920 And that's why, you know, if you remember, I was mentioning this in our setting, that in the West, the smallest thing becomes the biggest things and the biggest things become like it's okay.

01:00:58.000 Oh, I wish I said that argument.

01:00:59.660 Wallahi, that would have been.

01:01:00.720 Oh, I just fell out of my chair.

01:01:02.320 That's perfect.

01:01:02.980 How are you not going to, like, how are you going to draw morality out of word but not influencing millions to gamble?

01:01:08.800 Yes, yes.

01:01:09.660 That's the perfect evidence of your ever-changing morality and how it adapts and why you need something that's right from wrong.

01:01:16.100 Because the fact that you draw the line at just saying a mean word but not influencing your audience to go and lose their money gambling.

01:01:25.460 Oh, you're, oh, okay, okay.

01:01:28.020 So let's go to the marriage question.

01:01:29.300 This is at 19 minutes.

01:01:31.920 You're good.

01:01:32.440 You're good.

01:01:32.780 You're good.

01:01:33.100 You're good.

01:01:33.400 You're good.

01:01:34.180 Next time, we need an earpiece.

01:01:37.000 No, I don't.

01:01:37.380 You know what?

01:01:37.940 We'll just, we'll have these conversations more often.

01:01:41.080 This is good.

01:01:41.800 This is retarded.

01:01:44.440 This is retarded.

01:01:45.020 I don't know what the fuck you're doing in here.

01:01:46.380 Okay, so you can leave the call.

01:01:47.700 I wanted to go talk about this word.

01:01:49.200 I don't want to leave the call.

01:01:49.680 I like hanging out here.

01:01:50.520 I've talked to a lot of pedophiles in the class.

01:01:51.680 If you can stop there.

01:01:52.640 Okay.

01:01:52.900 What'd you say?

01:01:53.540 Like, I just said that if you, I wanted to make a comment.

01:01:55.920 This, this blue-haired individual is one of the biggest leeches I've seen in my life.

01:01:59.300 I think this individual, he's got no motion by himself.

01:02:03.040 He has to go and insert himself in any type of discussion or talk about anything.

01:02:06.880 The reason he attacked Islam is this.

01:02:08.440 He's trying to gain some relevancy.

01:02:09.620 He was dying.

01:02:10.400 His wife left him.

01:02:11.280 No one cares about him.

01:02:12.480 So then he's got, he's got to insert himself in any type of conversation.

01:02:15.700 It seems like you're trying to talk to the other guy.

01:02:18.060 Yeah, no, he does this a lot.

01:02:19.600 It's a, it's repetitive behavior.

01:02:20.860 It happened when we were speaking about Zionism last year.

01:02:23.760 Nick Fuentes, my friend, he was getting a lot of popularity on Fresh and Fit.

01:02:27.200 And then Destiny weasels his way in like, oh, well, he's like the hall monitor of debates.

01:02:30.940 And so I knew he was going to do this because I called, I wanted to debate XQC specifically

01:02:34.640 about morality and the word and his idea of morality.

01:02:37.560 And I knew as soon as I challenged him publicly to that debate, Destiny got his way in.

01:02:41.400 So now I have to do this.

01:02:42.780 And so I'm debating two people at once.

01:02:44.120 I'm having this debate about Islam and then also about morality and this disbelief or the

01:02:48.000 XQC.

01:02:48.460 So it's like, I'm battling two at once and I'm just waiting for him to go away.

01:02:51.740 And I'm like, you can leave.

01:02:52.960 And he's like, well, no, I want to stay here anyway.

01:02:54.500 He's just like, no, no, no.

01:02:55.580 He's like his boyfriend, like backing him up.

01:02:57.800 So for everyone who said like, I didn't do well in this debate, the fact that it's two

01:03:01.200 of you, you know, I have to like get one off.

01:03:03.440 I have to just shake off this leech in order to get to the, the, the kill point, you know,

01:03:07.940 and just wait.

01:03:08.420 Cause all he's, all he's trying to do, his whole objective is just obfuscation, move the goalposts,

01:03:13.720 try to like set up traps.

01:03:15.400 The truth is both of them got nothing, no, no actual intellectual, intellectual reasoning

01:03:20.280 or actual evidences.

01:03:21.780 But the thing is what happens is one of them knows how to do debate tactics.

01:03:26.340 What we were saying, scream, shout, change the goalpost, you know, put pressure on things,

01:03:31.160 try not to let you speak.

01:03:32.540 This is what the blue haired guy does.

01:03:34.000 But the other one doesn't do this, the yellow guy.

01:03:36.760 So, so if you, if you were talking with him, I think it would have been a lot more, yeah,

01:03:40.820 a lot more different than reasonable.

01:03:42.000 Well, I'll say, yeah, next time, inshallah, I want to figure it out.

01:03:45.520 XQC, someone could have said it to it.

01:03:47.580 XQC, let's debate without your boyfriend, destiny.

01:03:50.140 Let's do a one-on-one.

01:03:51.060 Let's have an actual discussion about morality.

01:03:53.480 This 2v1 is not fair.

01:03:54.760 And I would like to have a good discussion about it.

01:03:56.620 We didn't really get the chance to speak one-on-one.

01:03:58.460 It's not about clout.

01:03:59.440 Like that's the defense mechanism.

01:04:00.660 Oh, Sneeko needs clout.

01:04:01.800 Both of our communities are talking about a nonstop, regardless.

01:04:04.200 People want to see it.

01:04:05.140 We could have a well-moderated and let's, let's speak about this because, and we don't need

01:04:08.380 to go insults, ad hominems, XQC, I genuinely want to see what you think about this because

01:04:12.160 we should be really aware of how we're promoting our audience to do different things and the

01:04:17.640 influence that we have.

01:04:18.520 It's very important.

01:04:19.840 I'll look at that.

01:04:20.620 Okay.

01:04:21.120 Let's finish the marriage question.

01:04:23.300 Okay.

01:04:23.580 I'm actually curious now.

01:04:25.160 What do you think the age of development is?

01:04:26.900 I just told you, it depends on where you are, it depends on the world, it depends on

01:04:31.840 development.

01:04:32.020 At what stage do you think somebody has developed in it?

01:04:34.440 Can you stop there?

01:04:36.700 Why is he asking you about the age of development?

01:04:38.420 What did you say?

01:04:40.380 I think Destiny set up a trap earlier to get me there.

01:04:42.700 Let's start from here.

01:04:43.320 I told you at a developed age.

01:04:44.540 Sneeko thinks you should be able to fuck nine-year-olds.

01:04:46.620 That's what Sneeko thinks and he won't answer that question honestly.

01:04:49.060 Or he's going to have to give a different answer in which case he's updated his morality.

01:04:52.560 He's updated his views and that's really uncomfortable for him.

01:04:54.420 You don't have an answer to any of this shit, bro.

01:04:55.700 Go back to fucking that fucking corner in London where you're getting roasted by year

01:04:59.460 one debaters on fucking Christianity.

01:05:01.180 This is retarded.

01:05:01.580 You're talking about that.

01:05:02.780 I said go back a little bit more.

01:05:04.000 I think you're talking about the age of consent, right?

01:05:06.500 Yeah.

01:05:07.760 Fucking psychology, cognition, logic.

01:05:11.920 No, answer the question, you fucking pussy.

01:05:14.660 Holy shit.

01:05:15.240 You're such a cowardly fuck.

01:05:16.780 Stand up for what you believe in.

01:05:17.860 If you actually are fucking Muslim, you're actually Islamic or whatever, then stand up for

01:05:20.600 your fucking beliefs.

01:05:21.940 Every other Muslim scholar online will do this.

01:05:24.360 Do it.

01:05:24.600 He is kind of like a gay Zerka.

01:05:26.460 Like, it's the same tactics and stuff like that.

01:05:29.140 Like, you fucking lie.

01:05:30.220 You know, it's the same stuff.

01:05:32.360 It's not, but yeah, it's entertainment.

01:05:35.700 Stand tall on it.

01:05:36.500 Don't act like a little pussy in here trying to grill fucking XQC on fucking, on modern

01:05:40.840 meta ethics or whatever.

01:05:41.860 If you want to answer basic questions about your worldview, what should the age of consent

01:05:44.560 be?

01:05:44.780 Do you see how, you see how you want to answer the question?

01:05:48.360 You see how he's going to yap and not answer the question?

01:05:49.880 I'm going to ask the same thing when you're done.

01:05:51.120 Go ahead.

01:05:51.400 I just answered the question.

01:05:52.520 I just told you.

01:05:53.160 What was the age?

01:05:54.280 I just told you at a developed age.

01:05:56.160 Sneakko thinks you should be able to fuck nine-year-olds.

01:05:58.140 That's what Sneakko thinks.

01:05:58.940 And he won't answer that question honestly.

01:06:00.580 Or he's going to have to give a different answer, in which case he's updated his morality.

01:06:04.060 He's updated his views.

01:06:05.020 And that's really uncomfortable for him.

01:06:05.940 You don't have an answer to any of this shit, bro.

01:06:07.420 Go back to fucking, uh, that fucking corner in London where you're getting roasted by

01:06:10.540 year one debaters on fucking Christianity.

01:06:12.640 This is retarded.

01:06:13.200 I don't know what the fuck you're doing in here.

01:06:14.560 Okay.

01:06:14.820 So you can leave the call.

01:06:15.860 I wanted to go talk about this.

01:06:17.280 I don't want to leave the call.

01:06:17.820 I like hanging out here.

01:06:18.660 I've talked to a lot of pedophiles in the past, so.

01:06:20.740 Okay.

01:06:21.640 Okay.

01:06:22.180 I'm actually curious now.

01:06:23.360 What, what do you think the age of development is?

01:06:26.760 I just told you.

01:06:27.620 It depends on where you are.

01:06:28.940 It depends on what stage do you think somebody is developed in?

01:06:32.700 What stage of, of, of, of development?

01:06:34.920 Because there's a lot of stage in development.

01:06:36.300 It varies.

01:06:36.880 It varies.

01:06:37.580 It varies on what?

01:06:38.240 I think it varies on the age.

01:06:40.200 It varies on the age?

01:06:42.640 It depends on where you are.

01:06:44.060 You need to have set ages for that.

01:06:46.340 There are stages of development.

01:06:47.620 As, as a child and adult.

01:06:49.200 Let me ask you.

01:06:49.700 In that situation, would you?

01:06:52.300 Let's, let's, let's listen to it.

01:06:54.400 Yeah.

01:06:54.840 I want to see their, their, their age of consent as well.

01:06:57.160 It wasn't an adult and then fully developed.

01:06:59.960 Like, is it, is it the brain?

01:07:01.380 Is it the body?

01:07:02.380 Is it, is it cognition?

01:07:03.240 What parts of them it is?

01:07:05.200 Can you, can you target that?

01:07:07.040 I don't spend too much time thinking about that.

01:07:10.300 So that's what the next time they say.

01:07:11.000 Okay, so if a man, so if a man fucked a 12 year old and he was like, well, this person was like really developed.

01:07:15.300 Would that be okay then?

01:07:16.000 You wouldn't call that person a pedophile?

01:07:17.780 No, that's, that's wrong.

01:07:18.940 Absolutely.

01:07:19.360 Why is that wrong?

01:07:20.740 I just said that you're not supposed to do relationships with people.

01:07:23.520 But look.

01:07:24.160 Oh, you can't do relationships?

01:07:25.560 You can't do relationships with children.

01:07:27.100 I said that like.

01:07:27.940 Wait, what is a child though?

01:07:28.660 But what if they say they were developed?

01:07:31.300 Developed is 18 plus, bro.

01:07:32.980 Like, come on now.

01:07:33.980 But that's not true.

01:07:34.880 Do you co-sign that, Snego?

01:07:35.660 Is that what developed means?

01:07:36.520 18 plus?

01:07:37.320 Well, people believe that.

01:07:38.340 But throughout a lot of states, a lot of it's like 17.

01:07:40.440 A lot of it is 16.

01:07:41.420 Oh, so you think 16, 17, that's the ethical age to start fucking married?

01:07:44.740 I don't follow, but see, I don't follow the legal morality that you guys are following.

01:07:49.240 So you follow yours?

01:07:50.080 I'm asking for the Sharia.

01:07:51.000 I'm asking for the Sharia morality.

01:07:52.500 What's the religious one?

01:07:53.380 What do you think is the morality there?

01:07:54.400 It says developed.

01:07:55.280 It's not a specific age.

01:07:56.680 So, so if the pedophile, or if a guy wants to fuck a 12-year-old, he feels like they're

01:07:59.600 developed, then you're saying it should be okay in terms of religion, right?

01:08:01.980 In terms of.

01:08:02.560 What do you answer right there?

01:08:04.660 Yeah, I still want to hear what you want to say in the end.

01:08:07.200 At least I think it's morality, right?

01:08:08.840 No, and the Quran does not specify, it doesn't have an age.

01:08:12.320 Like, you're going to go in circles about this forever?

01:08:14.800 I'm just curious why it's so hard to get you to give an age for when you think it's

01:08:17.660 an acceptable time to fuck somebody.

01:08:19.040 Okay, I answered the same question four times.

01:08:20.920 You haven't given it, developed isn't an age, it's not a number.

01:08:23.600 I think he's trying to make an understanding of how you apply it in the real world.

01:08:28.020 How do you apply that knowledge or that piece of that phrase you're using, develop age,

01:08:32.640 into the real world?

01:08:33.640 How does somebody navigate that?

01:08:34.780 Somebody who read the same book that you did, had your information.

01:08:37.600 How do they navigate the world?

01:08:39.360 How do they do it?

01:08:41.580 It's hard to understand you.

01:08:42.640 How does someone navigate the world without a book?

01:08:45.280 No, no, no, no.

01:08:46.180 You're missing the point.

01:08:47.820 If you or you use that phrase, developed, right?

01:08:50.920 As a concept, somebody knows this and they intake that.

01:08:53.720 How do they apply that to the real world?

01:08:56.480 How is this supposed to know?

01:08:57.620 There's some sort of specifics behind it, right?

01:09:02.000 How do you apply the Quran to the real world?

01:09:04.420 Yes, if the book says that phrase.

01:09:07.380 Chad, this is the second time I'm hearing this and I still don't know what his question was.

01:09:10.420 I'm not even lying.

01:09:11.360 I get his point.

01:09:13.600 I get his point.

01:09:14.480 But continue to listen to what he's saying.

01:09:17.000 Developed, right?

01:09:18.460 Somebody, when they go into the real world, how do they apply that?

01:09:21.360 How do they use that to know what to do?

01:09:24.160 It's a simple question.

01:09:24.720 Please answer it.

01:09:25.920 It's pretty easy to tell if somebody is a developed human or not.

01:09:28.920 So that you trust every human that has read the book to know what's developed and know how to use that.

01:09:34.000 And you trust that people will do that responsibly.

01:09:36.600 Yes?

01:09:37.220 Well, this is also the value of having a community.

01:09:39.880 Of having a community of people around you who are on the same sort of values.

01:09:42.280 Also, if you do it.

01:09:43.020 So if you say, oh, oh, my bad.

01:09:44.960 I thought it was developed.

01:09:45.860 There were only 13, let's say.

01:09:48.200 You said that the community should now.

01:09:50.400 Oh, you should have done that.

01:09:51.980 And that's good course correction.

01:09:53.400 Right.

01:09:54.760 There's people around that are educated.

01:09:56.580 You have sheikhs and you have other people within the community.

01:09:58.180 So after the mistake of religion.

01:09:59.520 So after you've done wrong, they go, hey, yo, you probably shouldn't have done that, bro.

01:10:02.600 No.

01:10:02.940 If they're following the faith, they're going to have the right attentions and they're going

01:10:07.440 to ask people and it's going to be pretty obvious.

01:10:09.360 So they have to wait for the faith to come down on earth.

01:10:12.180 No, I'm saying it's the value of having a community that's on the same page about things.

01:10:16.320 The same.

01:10:16.800 And you know that.

01:10:17.500 That's why you establish rules within your community.

01:10:19.140 The community is supposed to come in and tell you what to do and when not to do it.

01:10:24.000 Or if that's if that's how you use it.

01:10:26.300 If that's the number you use to navigate the world.

01:10:28.220 OK.

01:10:28.780 They should.

01:10:29.140 You guys keep trying to make it seem.

01:10:30.560 What?

01:10:30.800 This is hilarious.

01:10:33.220 And the reason it's hilarious is he's making he's now accusing you of what he's doing.

01:10:38.140 He's saying to you in your in your worldview that the community decides who decides the

01:10:42.660 new worldview.

01:10:43.980 So even though that's not the case, but he's just telling you that in your worldview, Nico,

01:10:48.440 the community is deciding and he follows his own community's determination of what is

01:10:53.600 the age of consent.

01:10:54.440 He doesn't have like a rational view.

01:10:56.400 That's why I wanted to hear what numbers are they going to give us for the age of consent?

01:10:59.920 I should have I should have spun it back and asked them.

01:11:02.440 Yeah.

01:11:02.640 Yeah.

01:11:02.880 So but the thing is, that's why they're just attacking you.

01:11:05.300 But they're not giving they're not providing their own worldview.

01:11:07.660 Right.

01:11:08.500 And the thing is this.

01:11:09.600 What you said is not completely accurate, but it's close to what Islam teaches.

01:11:13.900 Right.

01:11:14.240 So the first thing is Islam does not have a set age.

01:11:16.280 Why Islam does not have a set age?

01:11:18.180 Because women are different and society is different and growth is different.

01:11:21.760 And the idea of becoming mature intellectually and physically differs and depending on the

01:11:26.980 society and the community that the person lives in.

01:11:29.400 And there are studies, for example, when it comes to the biological growth of people,

01:11:35.280 you know, in the hot countries, they grow quicker than they do in cold countries.

01:11:38.380 And they did studies on fish, for example, the fish grew much quicker in the heat, but

01:11:44.000 it grew more, but slower in the cold.

01:11:47.820 So in a long period of time, more, but slower, but in the heat, they grow much quicker.

01:11:51.860 So it depends on the country.

01:11:53.860 For example, when we talk about the biology, when it comes to the intellect as well, what

01:11:56.540 experiences did this woman have?

01:11:59.020 Intellectual maturity is mostly based on experiences.

01:12:01.040 The people that you deal with, the people that you treat, it's not based on ages people

01:12:04.080 try to pretend it is.

01:12:05.640 It is mostly based on the experience that you go through is what builds you and builds

01:12:09.420 your character and level of maturity.

01:12:10.760 You can get a kid who is living in his mom's basement and he's 35 and he's as kid as you

01:12:16.120 could find any other kid in the world.

01:12:17.640 He's 35, but he's been living his whole life outside of any experience that challenges him,

01:12:22.140 that grows him, that develops him, right?

01:12:24.500 So in Islam, there's no such thing as a set age, but there is a rule.

01:12:28.320 There is rules.

01:12:29.360 That rule is called, it is a principle of harm that the Prophet ﷺ have set.

01:12:33.240 That principle is that you cannot harm anyone else or yourself.

01:12:35.660 So first, when it comes to the idea now of engaging in intercourse, that has to be bounded

01:12:42.700 by that kind of principle, the idea of harm.

01:12:45.940 So if there is physical harm or psychological harm to that individual that you are about

01:12:49.940 to engage in intercourse only in marriage, there's something I want to say, which is very

01:12:53.960 important here.

01:12:54.500 Pedophilia is a problem in the West only because in the West, they have intercourse with people

01:13:00.180 before marriage.

01:13:01.240 They have these predators that target children.

01:13:04.300 There's no such thing in Islam.

01:13:05.660 If Islam allows marriage before it's marriage, it's not intercourse of targeting children.

01:13:10.920 It is agreement of both parents that the girl cannot get married without the permission

01:13:14.780 of the parents anyways.

01:13:16.040 It's marriage and that person is going to spend the life with the individual the rest

01:13:18.800 of his life.

01:13:19.460 He's going to take care of them.

01:13:20.360 He's going to provide for them.

01:13:21.240 That's what Islam allows.

01:13:22.340 Now they conflate that with the disease they have in their own communities, which is the

01:13:26.660 people who are trying to target little children and use them as sexual objects and then abuse

01:13:31.560 them and move to the next person.

01:13:32.740 That's your own community's problem.

01:13:34.040 That does not exist under the Islamic worldview because in Islam, the person has to get married

01:13:38.500 and the permission of the parents needs to be given.

01:13:40.400 So first, when we talk about biological development, that's a very natural thing that is known.

01:13:44.160 When the woman reaches the age of puberty, she's able to bear children biologically.

01:13:47.740 If they're atheists and they take the biological worldview, then the woman, when she reaches the

01:13:51.680 age of puberty, she's able to bear children.

01:13:54.280 So you come and tell me her body is able to bear children, but she's not able to bear children

01:13:59.240 according to our society.

01:14:00.620 When it comes to the psychological point of view, who determines?

01:14:03.260 It is the people who are specialized in the field, the psychologists in the field, the

01:14:06.800 psychiatrists, the psychologists, et cetera.

01:14:08.360 They fit a specific kind of parameter based on the girl, you know, her condition.

01:14:13.620 And then the state, the Islamic state, the Sharia state will set a number based on their

01:14:18.900 kind of recommendation, right?

01:14:20.740 The recommendation of the psychologists, et cetera.

01:14:22.740 It can either set a number or it can be a case-by-case scenario.

01:14:25.900 But in the end, even if the doctors say it's okay, for example, the marriage will never

01:14:30.600 take place without the parents' permission first.

01:14:33.620 The marriage does not go through without the parents' permission.

01:14:36.220 Even if a woman reaches 21, 23, 24, it doesn't matter.

01:14:40.280 The permission of the father is needed, the Walei, his permission is needed in the marriage

01:14:43.660 anyways.

01:14:44.960 And his advice is needed in the marriage.

01:14:46.620 And that's why you don't see Muslims.

01:14:48.360 If you go to Muslim countries, you don't see, look at Muslim countries and look at the

01:14:51.360 records of ages of marriage.

01:14:52.500 Most of them are getting married in their 30s, actually 20s, because of bad economic state

01:14:57.680 that even getting married in the 30s.

01:15:00.640 Both men and women, you see them getting married very late.

01:15:02.900 So this idea that trying to paint as Muslims are like following this or doing that is

01:15:07.220 completely ridiculous.

01:15:08.280 The thing is this.

01:15:09.480 When we look at the West, we look at the West.

01:15:11.960 What is the age of marriage in the USA?

01:15:13.940 Where is the age of consent?

01:15:14.700 I think it's like starting to be the age of marriage.

01:15:17.360 The age of consent.

01:15:18.300 You see, but this is a very important point.

01:15:20.760 Another point.

01:15:21.260 Why is the age of marriage and consent different?

01:15:22.680 So when a woman is able to have intercourse with someone, but she's not able to get married,

01:15:26.860 which is completely ridiculous.

01:15:28.220 But this is the state in the West.

01:15:30.660 The age of marriage is more than the age of consent.

01:15:32.380 They say she's okay to have intercourse with someone and possibly get pregnant, but she

01:15:36.400 cannot get married.

01:15:37.660 So the marriage age is universally 18, correct?

01:15:42.280 No, that's not the case.

01:15:43.500 In fact, in some...

01:15:44.560 But this is the...

01:15:45.200 No, I'm saying the consent age is 16 in a lot of places, but is the marriage age 16 too?

01:15:50.380 But you're making the point there.

01:15:52.620 Is when I would have asked him, why is the age?

01:15:54.360 You cannot give an age because every state has a different age.

01:15:56.740 If one country, your country that you're living in, that you're pretending you get a morality

01:16:01.180 from, cannot agree by itself on the age.

01:16:03.320 Go, go.

01:16:03.660 If you Google it, what is the age of marriage depending on state?

01:16:07.320 Every state will have a different number.

01:16:08.880 And some will allow parents.

01:16:10.820 Some will not allow parents.

01:16:11.900 Some will say with parents for 15.

01:16:13.640 Some will say without parents, 19, 18.

01:16:15.820 You will find completely different contradictory numbers depending on the state.

01:16:20.740 So even the USA itself as a country does not agree in its own states with the age of marriage

01:16:26.260 or the age of consent.

01:16:27.900 And then what you can't ask and sneak or give me an age, give me an age, give me an age.

01:16:30.480 You could even have an age in your own country.

01:16:32.520 One country, you don't have an age.

01:16:34.360 And you come to give me a specific age.

01:16:36.820 And this is ridiculous.

01:16:38.740 There are hundreds of thousands of cases of what they call child marriages happening in

01:16:42.920 the USA, by the way, in states like California, et cetera.

01:16:45.360 Really?

01:16:46.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:46.960 We just Google it right now with the judge permission.

01:16:49.820 So basically the parent comes and then they're younger than 18 or that specific age.

01:16:55.900 And then with the permission of the judge, they get married.

01:16:58.180 Because according to them, child is anyone under 18.

01:17:00.840 So anyone who gets married in 14, 15, this and that with the permission of the parent

01:17:04.740 is a child marriage in the USA.

01:17:08.100 So what's child marriage California?

01:17:11.040 A child marriage USA in 2023.

01:17:13.380 You're making my Google search look crazy right now.

01:17:15.400 I'm looking up the age of consent and child marriage.

01:17:17.580 Like I'm already.

01:17:20.280 Okay.

01:17:21.240 Is child marriage still legal?

01:17:23.380 So only 12 states have banned underage marriages.

01:17:26.020 This is 20, it is 2024.

01:17:29.500 So it keeps now getting banned.

01:17:30.980 But before I look, every time they're trying to update a change now, you know, but even

01:17:35.320 now it's only 12 states.

01:17:41.660 So what do I answer?

01:17:43.260 So the thing is this, the thing is this, like, they would say to you, a woman becomes an adult

01:17:49.600 when she's 17 years old, 300, sorry, she's not an adult when she's 17 years old, 364 days

01:17:57.600 and 23 hours and 59 minutes.

01:18:00.520 But when the minute passes, she becomes an adult magically.

01:18:03.280 There's a spell.

01:18:04.300 You become an adult now.

01:18:05.600 There you go.

01:18:06.000 What is the most ridiculous kind of state that you can see in the West?

01:18:11.060 It's completely ridiculous.

01:18:12.180 A woman can drive at the age of 16, which causes someone's life and death and it's a

01:18:16.700 life and death situation, but she cannot get married, according to them, right?

01:18:21.600 The West is completely in a mess when it comes to the idea of morality, when it comes to the

01:18:26.300 idea of determination of the age of this, the age of that, right?

01:18:29.020 So they have no premise to tell you this or that.

01:18:32.760 And now they talk about the Prophet, peace be upon you, all the time.

01:18:35.680 But the thing is this, the situation, and there's a fallacy called presentism, which

01:18:40.500 is to apply the values of morality of today on the past.

01:18:43.640 People in the past were different.

01:18:44.860 They grew up in different societies.

01:18:46.140 They had different experiences.

01:18:47.220 They grew differently.

01:18:48.220 So, for example, I told you in hotter countries, women would grow quicker.

01:18:51.780 Another example is the psychological aspect.

01:18:54.420 They would mature much easier.

01:18:55.740 Why?

01:18:55.900 Because the job of a woman in every household was...

01:18:59.020 Your job is you become a wife.

01:19:02.260 That's it.

01:19:02.580 There was no school, going to school, elementary school, secondary school, career woman.

01:19:06.000 There's no such thing.

01:19:07.140 It didn't exist.

01:19:08.600 The only thing that existed was that the woman is born and then she gets married.

01:19:12.980 That was it.

01:19:13.740 So her always, when she reaches the age of puberty, then from my young age, she's already dealing

01:19:18.280 with her community and society.

01:19:19.320 She gets married.

01:19:20.240 And that's why Aisha, the wife of the Prophet, she was already betrothed to someone before

01:19:24.360 him.

01:19:25.340 Before he even was in the picture, there was someone else that she was betrothed.

01:19:29.020 Because that was the societal norm.

01:19:30.880 You'll not find someone in the deserts of Arab.

01:19:33.800 You'll not find...

01:19:34.480 In fact, I'll make a claim now.

01:19:36.140 And go back 300 years and find me one person from 1,400 years ago to 300 years ago that

01:19:42.240 criticized the Prophet for his marriage.

01:19:44.000 You're not going to find a single person.

01:19:45.440 Do you know why?

01:19:46.400 Even his detractors, even the enemies of Islam?

01:19:48.540 No one, no one, no one.

01:19:49.820 Not in his community and not after him.

01:19:51.300 Do you know why?

01:19:51.720 Because the age of marriage in the USA, in the 1800s, was 10 years old.

01:19:55.940 Was seven years old in Delaware.

01:19:57.640 In the 1800s, it was seven years old in the UK.

01:20:01.780 Where is my evidence for that?

01:20:02.780 Sir William Blackstone, who is a jurist, who teaches book in Oxford, if you want to go and

01:20:06.840 study it.

01:20:07.700 Just Google Sir William Blackstone.

01:20:09.260 He has a book called Commentaries on the British Law of England.

01:20:12.260 In the page 110, he says a woman can be given a marriage at the age of seven.

01:20:16.600 And entitled to dowry at the age of nine.

01:20:18.720 So he's talking about women in the 1800s, the law in England.

01:20:22.600 We're not talking about one person.

01:20:24.000 Then someone comes and say, oh, but you know, they were wrong and we're right now.

01:20:28.280 But you just told me that morality is relative according to your worldview.

01:20:31.340 So it was okay then and it's not okay now.

01:20:32.920 So if it was okay, then you cannot criticize the Prophet of something he did at the time.

01:20:35.840 And if today, this is it, you cannot jump and play in hoops, you know, you gotta make

01:20:40.980 your decision.

01:20:41.780 And if you determine that, okay, it was not wrong that time, then you cannot criticize

01:20:46.820 the Prophet, peace be upon him.

01:20:47.600 If you say it is wrong, then you have to give us a reason why it was wrong.

01:20:50.760 What is your worldview where you bring that objective morality to determine when it is

01:20:53.720 right, when it was wrong, when it was wrong?

01:20:56.380 And these people have nothing, really.

01:20:57.740 They have no argument when we look at this.

01:21:00.580 This was the legal age of marriage.

01:21:02.180 This is how people lived life.

01:21:03.060 There was no life expectancy.

01:21:04.960 They didn't live as much.

01:21:06.500 Right?

01:21:06.940 So they needed to multiply.

01:21:08.180 There was wars, women dying.

01:21:10.400 You find life expectancy of 30, 40 years old.

01:21:13.160 Like, you have to multiply quickly and then you have to have children.

01:21:16.940 You have to increase.

01:21:18.120 And marriage was well known to be something that happens at an early age.

01:21:21.120 In fact, if people go to the great-grandmother, they will find that she got married very young.

01:21:25.560 Almost everyone probably watching this video, they're able to find the age that their great-grandmother

01:21:29.900 got married.

01:21:30.780 Because that was the societal norm.

01:21:32.460 There was no this career kind of thing.

01:21:34.420 When did this change?

01:21:35.540 When the Industrial Revolution and the idea of introducing women to the workforce and now

01:21:39.120 know we need the woman now to go to the university and this and that and not get married.

01:21:42.680 And we need her in the workforce.

01:21:44.120 We need to make these laws now with this specific age, that specific age.

01:21:47.620 And then when she's ready to go to the workforce, she works first.

01:21:50.440 And then she's maybe later on engaged in the idea of marriage.

01:21:53.740 So, yeah.

01:21:55.240 And the Prophet, if you want to look at his life, for example, he married all of his wives,

01:22:01.720 except Aisha, whom they talk about, were widows and divorces.

01:22:05.620 His first wife was 15 years older than him, Khadija.

01:22:07.860 And she was divorced or she was a widow, correct?

01:22:11.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:11.840 And he lived with her until she died.

01:22:14.820 He was 50-something when she died.

01:22:16.460 And then he got married to a woman older than him, who was another widow, Sauda.

01:22:20.500 And the rest of his wives were all widows and divorces.

01:22:23.740 None of them were that young as they're trying to put, you know.

01:22:27.560 So this was not something the Prophet, peace be upon him, was engaged in.

01:22:30.940 And Abu Bakr chose Aisha because of the character of the Prophet, peace be upon him.

01:22:35.840 He wanted to make sure, you know, that he makes a marriage contract.

01:22:38.660 Because, you know, the consummation did not happen until three years later.

01:22:41.080 He wanted to make sure, to do the marriage contract,

01:22:42.900 to make sure that they secure the Prophet, peace be upon him, as a spouse for Aisha.

01:22:47.040 And then when the age, when she herself said, when a woman hits that age, she becomes a woman.

01:22:52.500 In her community, she's talking, in her society.

01:22:55.720 And that's why Aisha, radiallahu anha, she lived 50 years after the Prophet, peace be upon him.

01:22:58.760 She taught the people.

01:23:00.360 She had no issues at all.

01:23:01.720 She lived her life.

01:23:02.380 She was happy.

01:23:03.580 No one, even the detractors of Islam in the community, criticized this.

01:23:07.260 Because this was the normal, the social norm.

01:23:09.360 I'm telling you not the social norm 1,400 years ago.

01:23:11.560 I'm telling you the social norm 200 years ago.

01:23:13.540 You go to the 1800s.

01:23:14.940 But these people are too hypocritical and completely illiterate when it comes to history.

01:23:18.600 That they, first, want to jump hoops when it comes to morality,

01:23:21.400 moralism when it suits them.

01:23:23.140 Then jump another hoop that, okay, this is bad, this is good.

01:23:25.580 Then jump another hoop and then apply presentism of the morality of today on the past.

01:23:30.120 So, yeah, essentially they got no argument there.

01:23:32.820 Like, to tell you what is right and what is wrong, what should be done, what should not be done.

01:23:36.800 It doesn't seem like it's as concrete.

01:23:41.720 It is.

01:23:42.300 It has to be concrete.

01:23:43.760 That's how the world works.

01:23:45.300 Legally and morally.

01:23:47.120 You have to.

01:23:48.020 Yes, you have to know.

01:23:49.500 Yeah, he is contradicting itself.

01:23:50.660 Now it has to be concrete.

01:23:51.880 When earlier, it's always updating and changing.

01:23:54.280 And you know what's funny?

01:23:55.160 Destiny probably caught that.

01:23:56.660 But he's not going to attack him for that.

01:23:58.520 Because he says he don't notice it.

01:24:00.360 If he don't notice it, he's going to remain silent.

01:24:02.520 Because he's on his side.

01:24:04.100 It's not genuine.

01:24:04.800 Not the truth.

01:24:05.660 Yeah, not the truth.

01:24:06.480 Yeah.

01:24:07.900 That's actually, you just contradicted yourself.

01:24:09.800 Oh, look how smart I am.

01:24:11.100 I caught it even in the moment.

01:24:12.300 No, I didn't.

01:24:13.180 You said your morality always changes and updates.

01:24:16.140 Exactly.

01:24:17.400 Because if you don't know something, then you'll know more later.

01:24:20.080 Exactly.

01:24:20.360 You cannot say, oh, dude, I didn't know.

01:24:23.140 Right here, Destiny knows him, right?

01:24:25.200 But he's not going to be a...

01:24:26.580 And he even said exactly.

01:24:27.840 Like, as if he's like making a point on his behalf or something.

01:24:30.340 He's like...

01:24:31.980 No, because my community didn't tell me.

01:24:33.860 Like, it's such a stupid way to navigate the world.

01:24:37.000 Like, what?

01:24:38.280 You don't have to...

01:24:38.820 You don't have to fucking make the jump to see if the hole will kill you.

01:24:44.280 Other people might have seen it, will tell you ahead of time.

01:24:47.360 Do you have to jump?

01:24:48.560 No, you don't.

01:24:49.640 I know this might be your first time hearing him, but yeah.

01:24:52.460 Can you believe that this is one of the most successful streamers?

01:24:54.840 Like, the way he talks and everything, it's incredible.

01:24:57.520 But yeah, go ahead.

01:24:58.200 Sorry.

01:24:58.320 No, you know, you remember I told you in the beginning of the talk about, like, how low

01:25:02.240 the bar for intellectualism when it comes to the streaming world, anyways, you know?

01:25:05.560 So I'm not surprised, honestly.

01:25:07.120 But when it comes to the...

01:25:08.100 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:08.560 I just...

01:25:08.980 What did I want to say?

01:25:09.720 I even, subhanAllah, I lost it.

01:25:11.000 I wanted to say something about this.

01:25:12.460 I'll run it back a little bit so if you can remember.

01:25:14.940 Inshallah.

01:25:16.880 We didn't navigate the world.

01:25:18.700 Like, what?

01:25:19.960 You don't have to...

01:25:20.480 You don't have to fucking make the jump

01:25:23.140 to see if there's...

01:25:24.400 If the hole will kill you...

01:25:26.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:25:28.840 So, so, yeah, the thing, the thing is this when...

01:25:31.080 Yeah, the thing is this when it comes to the...

01:25:34.480 Sorry, sorry.

01:25:35.080 No, no, no, that's not good.

01:25:36.060 Yeah.

01:25:36.340 The thing is this, when it comes to the age, the termination of the age,

01:25:38.760 you understood now the principle, right?

01:25:40.400 The idea.

01:25:41.700 The principle and the idea.

01:25:42.800 There's something called the harm principle.

01:25:44.440 And that harm principle is...

01:25:46.080 We're not talking about John Stuart Mill harm principle that came in liberalism.

01:25:49.480 We're talking about Islam way before that, 1,400 years ago.

01:25:52.000 But the Prophet said you cannot harm anyone or yourself.

01:25:54.260 So there's no set age that when someone asks you for a set age,

01:25:57.340 you should ask them back,

01:25:58.240 what is the set age that you will go on to determine if it's right or wrong?

01:26:00.540 And then if they're in the US, they cannot speak.

01:26:02.540 Even if they're in another country, all Europe is different ages.

01:26:06.020 And they keep changing it all the time from left to right.

01:26:08.460 And then if he says to you it's changed,

01:26:10.320 then he cannot come to you and make any arguments about what is morally right

01:26:14.500 and morally wrong because it can change depending on the time.

01:26:20.220 We'll tell you ahead of time.

01:26:21.280 Do you have to jump?

01:26:22.760 No, you don't.

01:26:24.360 But you're saying...

01:26:25.280 What I'm saying...

01:26:26.260 Yes, yes.

01:26:27.060 Sorry, yes.

01:26:27.800 It's not the society that tells you.

01:26:29.320 The Quran says,

01:26:30.500 ask the people of expertise if you do not know.

01:26:32.700 You ask the people of knowledge in each field.

01:26:34.860 So the people of the psychology,

01:26:36.440 they are the ones who psychologists, psychiatrists,

01:26:38.540 they will determine,

01:26:39.160 okay, this is the age is okay psychologically for this person.

01:26:42.120 But even ignoring psychologists,

01:26:44.640 it has to be first the permission of the parents

01:26:46.240 and there has to be a physical capacity

01:26:48.380 for the intercourse to be had to begin with.

01:26:51.420 So unless all of these things are there,

01:26:54.380 it's not...

01:26:54.860 If you're going to cause harm,

01:26:55.840 even if the woman was 90 years old,

01:26:57.400 not eight,

01:26:58.660 which will be perfectly legal in the U.S.,

01:27:01.460 there's going to be a physical harm on her

01:27:03.140 and the intercourse in Islam is haram.

01:27:05.580 In the West is okay,

01:27:06.440 but in Islam is haram

01:27:07.140 because there is a harm that will take place.

01:27:10.660 Yes, but it's a community...

01:27:11.900 Brother, what are you talking about?

01:27:14.820 I'm not...

01:27:15.540 It's hard to understand.

01:27:16.860 How...

01:27:16.940 How...

01:27:17.520 I asked you a simple question.

01:27:19.840 You failed the answer like 10 times.

01:27:22.340 If the only thing that somebody knows...

01:27:24.060 Yeah, sorry, sorry.

01:27:24.660 No, I want to say something very, very important here.

01:27:26.640 Very, very, very important.

01:27:28.060 Yeah.

01:27:28.240 The people do not have any real arguments against Islam.

01:27:33.960 And that's why this is practically the only argument

01:27:36.420 that you see them using.

01:27:37.500 Age of consent?

01:27:38.160 There is...

01:27:38.880 The idea of Prophet marrying specific...

01:27:42.080 Aisha specific.

01:27:43.220 They have...

01:27:43.600 Yeah, or the age of consent.

01:27:44.420 They have nothing else to criticize...

01:27:46.420 Nothing else of concrete

01:27:47.440 that they can criticize Islam for.

01:27:49.180 And you know, the funny thing is...

01:27:50.180 Believing Aisha's age,

01:27:52.940 what is she was exactly

01:27:54.140 when she got married to the Prophet,

01:27:55.140 A.S. is not an article of faith in Islam.

01:27:58.240 So if someone wanted to believe a different age,

01:28:00.320 he's still a Muslim.

01:28:02.220 I want you to understand this point.

01:28:03.320 But isn't it Hadith?

01:28:05.060 No, no, but the Hadith,

01:28:05.920 there's a difference between

01:28:06.580 when you say Hadith from the Prophet,

01:28:07.760 A.S., something he said about religion

01:28:09.300 and an age of someone in the community,

01:28:11.620 the culture, which...

01:28:12.720 Right, so people were texting me

01:28:13.800 after the stream and they're like,

01:28:14.740 oh, I had Muslims text me like,

01:28:16.340 oh, actually she was 22.

01:28:17.840 Actually, she was 19.

01:28:19.400 No, no, they're wrong.

01:28:19.880 But this is the thing.

01:28:20.460 I'm saying...

01:28:21.660 We're not talking now about right and wrong.

01:28:23.220 I completely believe her age was

01:28:25.220 six on the consummation.

01:28:26.780 Sorry, six with the contract.

01:28:27.820 Barrage, nine with the consummation.

01:28:29.460 Yes, yes.

01:28:30.180 So I completely believe that, 100%,

01:28:31.440 because I see the evidences for it.

01:28:33.180 But I'm saying,

01:28:34.320 if someone wanted to still say,

01:28:36.220 no, I don't want to believe this,

01:28:38.180 we're talking now from a purely

01:28:40.780 a theoretical standpoint,

01:28:42.100 from an Islamic standpoint.

01:28:43.880 When you become Muslim,

01:28:44.680 no one says these are the articles of faith.

01:28:46.180 Age of Aisha is number seven.

01:28:47.880 No one tells you that, right?

01:28:49.420 So if someone...

01:28:50.720 The point I'm trying to make is this,

01:28:52.020 is that the point they're attacking so much

01:28:53.760 is not really refuting Islam

01:28:55.460 in any way, shape, or form.

01:28:56.320 It's so much of a side point

01:28:58.900 that if someone wanted to believe

01:29:01.300 something other than that specific age,

01:29:03.300 you would still be a Muslim.

01:29:05.280 But they will still attack that

01:29:06.620 as if they are disproving Islam somehow,

01:29:08.700 or as if they now,

01:29:09.720 okay, Islam is completely wrong

01:29:10.900 by making the argument,

01:29:12.040 which is a very important thing

01:29:13.700 to understand, right?

01:29:14.880 So it's very ridiculous argumentation,

01:29:17.100 level of argumentation against Islam.

01:29:18.400 Yeah, but it's a good way to distract

01:29:21.760 and keep the disbelievers disbelieving.

01:29:24.380 It's probably one of the most distracting things

01:29:25.960 that they can say.

01:29:26.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:27.200 Because there's a shock factor

01:29:28.160 in the community, you know?

01:29:29.060 They socialize to believe

01:29:30.260 this is a big no-no and this and that.

01:29:33.040 So it's completely a big shock

01:29:35.260 when they use these kind of terminologies.

01:29:38.140 Okay.

01:29:38.320 What the book says,

01:29:40.020 that one phrase,

01:29:41.200 when they're developed,

01:29:42.720 how can they use this knowledge

01:29:44.460 and then operate in the real world

01:29:46.920 and use information?

01:29:47.420 I think, yeah, we've seen that.

01:29:48.320 I don't think really anything else

01:29:49.380 is left to see, isn't it?

01:29:50.740 I want to see, like,

01:29:51.660 so you left the call,

01:29:52.540 I want to brought up Zionism,

01:29:53.580 and then there's more towards the end.

01:29:56.180 And a lot of, see,

01:29:57.800 a lot of these,

01:29:58.400 the leftist debaters and YouTubers,

01:30:00.740 they want to debate me.

01:30:02.680 They always bring that up.

01:30:03.820 And I think the most important debate

01:30:05.900 to have right now is about Zionism.

01:30:08.700 Where do you think is the,

01:30:10.000 and I want to go into a completely prepared,

01:30:12.020 right?

01:30:12.160 I don't want to go in there.

01:30:14.020 I want to,

01:30:14.580 what do you think I should do

01:30:15.480 to prepare for that debate?

01:30:17.220 With this guy, H3H3,

01:30:18.840 Ethan Klein, for example.

01:30:19.780 I want to start with that one.

01:30:20.820 I'll send you,

01:30:21.260 I'll send you some resources.

01:30:22.220 I'll send you some resources,

01:30:23.280 inshallah, in private.

01:30:25.060 Maybe some videos,

01:30:25.860 if you'd like to watch,

01:30:26.800 you see the argumentation,

01:30:27.800 stuff like that.

01:30:28.780 And then if you'd like to engage with them,

01:30:30.800 you can,

01:30:31.080 because they already have a losing battle

01:30:32.680 in that case.

01:30:34.060 Completely have a losing battle.

01:30:35.320 What do you think?

01:30:37.080 If you made your argument,

01:30:38.320 sorry to interrupt you.

01:30:39.900 No, go ahead.

01:30:40.980 If the major argument against Islam

01:30:42.300 is always going to be age of consent,

01:30:43.900 right?

01:30:44.060 That's the major attack point.

01:30:46.600 What's the major attack point

01:30:47.660 against Zionism?

01:30:50.320 Or against,

01:30:51.040 against the,

01:30:51.740 the American politics,

01:30:53.260 American,

01:30:54.160 or just about the spread of Zionism.

01:30:55.740 What's the major argument for Zionism?

01:30:58.940 Yeah, it's,

01:30:59.700 it's very simple.

01:31:00.740 It's the fact,

01:31:01.180 what Zionism means.

01:31:02.140 Zionism means establishing a state

01:31:03.960 in,

01:31:04.160 in Israel.

01:31:05.400 Yeah,

01:31:05.720 in,

01:31:05.960 in Palestine,

01:31:06.860 in that land.

01:31:07.420 And,

01:31:07.580 and the fact is,

01:31:08.180 if this is the whole ideology,

01:31:09.320 it is effectively stealing someone else's land.

01:31:12.060 And we've got receipts.

01:31:13.800 So,

01:31:14.280 it's as simple as that.

01:31:15.000 It's that your whole ideology

01:31:16.000 is based on stealing someone else's land.

01:31:17.640 This is it.

01:31:18.060 So it's,

01:31:18.380 it's a self-refuting ideology.

01:31:20.100 It's based on stealing someone else's land.

01:31:22.240 I've got receipts from your own loved UN

01:31:24.500 saying that you are stealing someone else's land

01:31:26.920 and you have illegal settlements

01:31:27.980 and,

01:31:28.380 and how this land was taken

01:31:29.700 and how Herzl arranged this movement

01:31:31.580 of moving people from Europe

01:31:33.260 into,

01:31:33.780 into Palestine

01:31:34.440 and,

01:31:35.080 and how you are breaking international law

01:31:37.080 by killing journalists

01:31:37.900 and bombing hospitals

01:31:38.820 and killing children.

01:31:40.180 Look,

01:31:40.560 we got all the receipts essentially.

01:31:43.280 Okay.

01:31:43.820 But what,

01:31:44.180 what is the major attack point?

01:31:45.920 What,

01:31:46.100 what are the,

01:31:47.340 you know,

01:31:47.620 the,

01:31:47.800 the,

01:31:47.980 the supporters of Zionism?

01:31:49.520 This thing,

01:31:50.000 this is the whole point I'm telling you.

01:31:52.020 But what are,

01:31:52.520 what are they getting,

01:31:53.120 what's their major argument?

01:31:54.440 Like,

01:31:54.620 what are they going to try to attack the most?

01:31:56.140 What's the point that they hit?

01:31:58.000 Their argument is just,

01:31:58.880 you're going to say Hamas,

01:31:59.680 bad,

01:31:59.940 bad,

01:32:00.320 October the 7th.

01:32:01.460 Do you condemn October the 7th?

01:32:02.940 Right.

01:32:03.120 And then you can say 40 beheaded babies debunked.

01:32:05.020 Yeah.

01:32:05.460 And they're going to say like,

01:32:07.000 this is our land,

01:32:09.480 which is historically inaccurate.

01:32:10.540 I can send you resources on that

01:32:11.940 if you'd like more resources on that.

01:32:13.760 The original people who were living

01:32:15.040 were actually Canaanites,

01:32:17.020 which were,

01:32:17.400 original Arabs.

01:32:19.140 They're not Arab Musta'riba,

01:32:20.440 but original Arabs.

01:32:21.900 And then Joshua entered

01:32:23.100 and he slaughtered everyone.

01:32:24.360 And then later on,

01:32:25.400 you had the,

01:32:25.940 many of the people accepting Islam,

01:32:27.700 the Canaanites,

01:32:28.240 and you have the Arabs,

01:32:29.160 the Arab Musta'riba mixing with the Canaanites.

01:32:31.720 And then you have the people

01:32:32.400 who are living today.

01:32:33.560 Like,

01:32:33.780 there's a whole long kind of story.

01:32:35.180 But if you want to go back to the history,

01:32:37.020 they're also losing in that debate.

01:32:38.820 So they have no religious justification

01:32:40.700 or historical,

01:32:42.160 just no type of justification,

01:32:43.420 essentially.

01:32:43.700 I don't know if you can see

01:32:47.540 the shared screen right now,

01:32:48.540 but these are tweets from Destiny.

01:32:51.060 Like,

01:32:51.520 do you see this?

01:32:53.240 He's asking about the age you could send.

01:32:55.500 What age did men start ogling you?

01:32:58.220 And then Courtney says 10.

01:32:59.920 Destiny says,

01:33:00.520 you were hot at 10.

01:33:01.460 Any pics?

01:33:01.980 She says,

01:33:04.360 check DMs.

01:33:06.080 Jesus,

01:33:06.620 I've never wanted to,

01:33:07.640 oh,

01:33:07.880 suffer a lot.

01:33:08.960 Yeah,

01:33:09.180 but this is the thing.

01:33:11.000 There is a huge,

01:33:11.820 there's always a level of projection

01:33:13.160 with these people.

01:33:14.820 You know what?

01:33:15.260 Look,

01:33:15.440 if you are doing something wrong,

01:33:17.620 you project it on other people

01:33:18.840 so no one looks at you,

01:33:19.660 no one points a finger at you.

01:33:21.840 Look,

01:33:22.040 look,

01:33:22.220 he does it,

01:33:22.540 he does it,

01:33:23.180 he does it.

01:33:23.560 Don't look at me.

01:33:24.720 So essentially,

01:33:25.300 I'd say that it's very natural

01:33:26.620 to kind of,

01:33:28.820 for me to see something like this

01:33:30.120 because I know the level of projection

01:33:31.880 that happens.

01:33:32.480 Yeah,

01:33:32.640 I know you are,

01:33:33.440 but what am I?

01:33:34.060 I know you are,

01:33:34.540 but what am I?

01:33:35.740 Yeah,

01:33:36.000 exactly.

01:33:36.760 Right.

01:33:37.120 But yeah,

01:33:37.440 I need to go now

01:33:38.240 so I can catch Fajr inshallah

01:33:39.580 before the shiruq comes up,

01:33:42.620 you know.

01:33:43.040 I hope,

01:33:43.760 may Allah accept the duwaz.

01:33:44.900 Thank you so much for coming on

01:33:46.400 and there's good,

01:33:47.880 you hope you get rewards through this.

01:33:49.740 I hope that from this conversation,

01:33:50.920 my doubt will be more effective

01:33:52.500 and then you get some of the rewards.

01:33:53.680 I hope to speak to you soon.

01:33:54.480 Salaam alaikum.

01:33:55.460 Inshallah.

01:33:55.880 And you know,

01:33:56.140 by the way,

01:33:56.420 look,

01:33:56.560 this is like special for you,

01:33:57.840 you know,

01:34:00.120 I never streamed this late,

01:34:02.080 but you know,

01:34:03.000 Alhamdulillah,

01:34:03.600 I can see you're doing good.

01:34:04.560 You're bringing people,

01:34:05.280 trying to spread the message

01:34:06.380 and in certain areas

01:34:08.900 that I don't think many people can.

01:34:10.600 So you don't have Muslims

01:34:12.060 in the da'wah scene

01:34:12.800 who are involved in the scene

01:34:13.900 that you're in

01:34:14.300 that have the connections

01:34:14.920 that you have, right?

01:34:15.800 So you cannot reach

01:34:16.620 the reach that you reach,

01:34:18.400 these specific individuals

01:34:19.480 having discussions

01:34:20.400 and talking with them

01:34:21.340 the way you do.

01:34:21.860 So you have a very big avenue there.

01:34:23.600 I think you should continue using,

01:34:24.920 inshallah,

01:34:25.240 to try to connect,

01:34:26.160 you know,

01:34:26.320 these people

01:34:26.860 with the Muslims

01:34:27.820 having these discussions

01:34:28.820 which I think can open

01:34:30.120 the minds of many people,

01:34:31.200 inshallah,

01:34:31.460 all right?

01:34:32.080 Anyways,

01:34:32.420 you're doing fantastic work,

01:34:33.340 inshallah,

01:34:33.740 and keep me in your du'a

01:34:34.820 and may Allah accept from you

01:34:36.140 and you know,

01:34:37.480 I hope people watching,

01:34:38.540 you know,

01:34:38.780 they don't hate me too much.

01:34:40.240 No,

01:34:40.580 they love you

01:34:41.280 and everybody's gonna subscribe.

01:34:43.500 Everybody's gonna subscribe

01:34:44.420 to the Muslim Lantern

01:34:45.260 on YouTube,

01:34:46.260 inshallah.

01:34:46.840 All right,

01:34:47.640 I'll see you,

01:34:48.660 inshallah.

01:34:50.880 Great guy,

01:34:51.540 W Muslim Lantern.

01:34:53.480 W Muslim Lantern.

01:34:54.560 Uh,

01:34:57.980 chat,

01:34:58.280 so W Row,

01:34:58.900 like,

01:34:59.140 what do I do,

01:34:59.880 chat?

01:35:00.160 Like,

01:35:00.380 um,

01:35:01.700 be honest,

01:35:02.280 chat.

01:35:02.680 Like,

01:35:02.860 W Row,

01:35:03.280 like,

01:35:03.840 that was good.

01:35:06.660 That was good.

01:35:07.080 W Muslim Lantern.

01:35:08.020 Wow,

01:35:08.260 look at the W's pouring in.

01:35:09.320 all right.

01:35:09.880 Hh!

01:35:10.620 Hh!

01:35:29.120 Hh!

01:35:30.340 Hh!

01:35:30.760 Hh!

01:35:31.040 Hh!

01:35:31.360 Hh!

01:35:33.820 Hh!

01:35:33.860 Hh!

01:35:34.460 Hh!

01:35:35.280 Hh!

01:35:35.600 Hh!

01:35:36.020 Hh!

01:35:37.080 Hh!

01:35:37.440 Hh!

01:35:38.200 Hh!

01:35:39.020 Hh!

SNEAKO - April 29, 2024

SNEAKO & Muslim Lantern Analyze The XQC & Destiny Debate!

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