SNEAKO - August 03, 2022Why There’s Only 2 Genders.
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
182.75375
Summary
In this episode of Change My Mind, we have a conversation with someone who claims to be intersex and wants to know if there are only two genders. We talk about intersex people, gender identity, and intersex babies.
Transcript
00:00:01.500
I talk about trans people, intersex people that used to be referred to as hermaphrodites,
00:00:05.800
which is a phrase that we don't prefer anymore.
00:00:08.380
We find it to be very triggering and offensive.
00:00:12.020
Because of the word that has been used historically.
00:00:30.800
Unedited conversations with people on the street.
00:00:33.220
Usually we do this on campus, but during summer break, that's kind of hard to do.
00:00:36.100
So, before we start, because this is a long one,
00:00:38.300
I wanted to show you how this conversation ends up with our second person,
00:00:42.960
who claimed to be intersex, and got a little hostile.
00:00:46.660
And the reason for this is because of the length of these conversations,
00:00:50.680
if you ever feel like we're talking around in circles or getting off in the details,
00:00:54.900
you'll see that they come back later on, and they matter.
00:00:58.320
That's key when having a conversation and finding common ground.
00:01:04.740
The biological makeup of a brain is not societal.
00:01:11.760
Right, so what I'm saying, the brain that you call the male brain,
00:01:14.040
or the female brain, with what you're saying...
00:01:18.060
I'm saying is closer to that brain that you were referring to as a male brain.
00:01:25.280
So, I want to make sure I'm correct that you believe there is a male brain, generally,
00:01:30.060
I'm not going to say yes to you when I'm explaining my answer, when I'm giving you my answer.
00:01:33.180
My answer is, what you are referring to as a male brain is more...
00:01:45.080
So, that context matters because we are going to rewind all the way to the beginning,
00:01:49.460
where you can see that intersex girl works for this person who approached me.
00:01:54.640
Transgender male to female, Danielle Skidmore, actually running for Austin City Council in District 9.
00:02:10.760
I was going to the list office and saw your table, and I've heard about your show, so I thought...
00:02:21.460
So, Stephen, and if you're familiar at all with the show, this is just where we engage in civil discussion,
00:02:27.720
dialogue, and issues that are usually pretty controversial.
00:02:30.220
They result in talking points with a lot of people, and you don't like to see full-length conversations.
00:02:41.500
I think that human biology is really complicated.
00:02:46.340
I think that gender identity is real and intrinsic, and I think that...
00:03:07.280
Literally, I was walking down the street, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is a sign, right,
00:03:11.660
So, what do you believe is wrong, I guess, about my state?
00:03:18.240
I think I've come to realize, I'm trans, right?
00:03:26.600
Why we are the way we are, like what makes our core humanity, right, is beautifully complicated.
00:03:35.140
So, like, my son, my son's got a genetic disorder, right?
00:03:38.540
He's missing an enzyme that lets him metabolize two amino acids, right?
00:03:55.260
Now, like, why I'm trans, to be honest with you, I don't know, right?
00:04:11.700
Fighting what I knew to be true from the earliest age of my childhood to work my way through the
00:04:19.160
social stigma of my reality, which was that I know I'm different and I don't understand
00:04:26.960
I don't know why I would, you know, go and hide it.
00:04:32.700
In the bathroom, where my sister's clothes, right?
00:04:38.420
Like, yeah, it all got wrapped into the expectations of society.
00:04:45.260
So, I want to make sure I'm just kind of unwrapping this carefully.
00:05:03.300
You're a heterosexual, I presume, heterosexual cisgender man.
00:05:15.120
So, Chad, you're saying this is just a dude with some plastic titties and a kid?
00:05:18.500
I think I'm part of the LGBTQAI community that preferences, sexuality preferences, as far
00:05:30.540
And biologically, I was born a male because I have a penis and a hormonal profile and chromosomes
00:05:36.140
So, that's how I know that it's true to state that I'm a male.
00:05:42.720
...as a male, because you're a male, because, like, you're XY.
00:05:47.420
I didn't simplify it to XY to a multitude of factors.
00:05:51.860
Everything from bone density to my hormonal profile to, yes, my penis.
00:05:56.320
All of these things, pretty clearly, would file me in the cabinet under male, biologically.
00:06:02.740
Like, in the spectrum of biological variation, you're in that big collection of people that
00:06:14.660
Like, two-thirds of one percent is the best number now, right?
00:06:18.540
That are transgender, based on, you know, what we know.
00:06:23.660
Which, in Texas, is like 130,000 adults, right?
00:06:27.700
Who, for reasons that are still unknown, are...
00:06:34.600
Don't have all of those biological components that you described, don't align as cleanly as
00:06:48.140
Um, again, this goes back to, you said, your truth that you are a female.
00:06:56.940
I hope that I've answered it as clearly as I can.
00:06:59.800
So I would return that same question to you, because I think we need to start with the
00:07:03.480
There needs to be the same amount of validity to our arguments, as far as us rationalizing
00:07:24.120
Like, in what biological context is it, like...
00:07:35.740
How do you know that you're not simply a man who believes he's a woman?
00:07:42.020
If you're heterosexual, why are you attracted to women?
00:07:47.640
There's a lot of biological mechanisms in there, namely to procreate since the beginning
00:08:16.060
And I think that's very important because a sexual preference is different from biology,
00:08:20.840
And this is what I find also pretty interesting to me is right now they're teaching that,
00:08:24.640
you know, obviously you're born gay, but gender is a choice.
00:08:36.140
But I would assume on your birth certificate it said male.
00:08:38.840
So at some point you made the decision to live the way that you live right now, correct?
00:08:49.000
It was almost a decade ago to unpack all of the guilt and shame I felt for being different,
00:08:58.660
And at some point I made the decision to unpeel guilt and shame, right?
00:09:06.800
About my truth and to start trying to reconcile it with the rest of my...
00:09:14.440
But can your truth just be that you're confused?
00:09:16.720
A life and to reconcile it with a society that is still pretty hostile.
00:09:22.580
So one in the chat, not me, said this kid's got unspoken riz, bro.
00:09:34.800
So and then even after I did that, I spent another...
00:09:37.720
Is this thing, is she saying anything really or is it just saying, I'm empathy and my truth
00:09:45.240
and I really started to unpack and unpeel and that's just the way it is.
00:09:51.780
And because of my past, like, are you really saying anything or are you just like...
00:09:55.720
Another six years desperately trying to not accept that.
00:10:06.620
I accepted the truth and I'm like, how do I reconcile with that?
00:10:11.460
I'm a parent who especially needs child, right?
00:10:13.940
like how can i how can i be who i knew i am and still function in society so it took me years
00:10:22.900
and eventually i realized that i don't have a choice like you know we look at the news this
00:10:28.840
morning chat you really need to find god you need to find god i'm trying to listen to her truth
00:10:35.080
right and uh with tony born day and you know taking his life right right so 40 percent of
00:10:43.800
transgender people attempt suicide right i feel like a lot of people who are just lost end up like
00:10:50.560
taking these gender hormones so that they think they decide that the problem in their life is i'm
00:10:55.380
trans and i've never found myself like maybe you just need to go there's a lot of other things you
00:10:59.940
need to work on the misconception is that uh transgender people are depressed because of
00:11:05.840
like society's pressure but no these people are just a lot of them are just confused and they find
00:11:11.400
out seven years after taking conversion therapy and conversion medication that they're even more
00:11:16.620
depressed before but they get seven years of delusion of like yeah i was nick now i'm nicole
00:11:24.980
and they get seven years of that and then like oh shit i missed my dick can i pause you right there
00:11:29.080
really quickly just first off i hope that i haven't been hostile i know you talked about
00:11:31.960
i've been hostile at all no this is a great okay good um because i know we disagree but i i certainly
00:11:37.360
don't want to be disrespectful to you personally even if i disagree with you so yeah i don't know
00:11:40.960
that i don't find that we disagree actually okay okay well i i'm glad that uh i'm glad that one
00:11:45.600
because the last thing i want is for you to feel as though you've been sat down and it's uh it's been a
00:11:49.100
you know a sandbagging um and and you've brought up you know anthony what a white word i just don't want
00:11:55.000
you to feel like i just want you to sit down and just get sandbagged or anything like that i wasn't
00:11:58.940
trying to put that on you i don't want to you know cements you or anything like that but i was
00:12:03.000
just trying to just speak to you just shut up bourdain you brought up the suicide right i think
00:12:06.320
that's very uh important you know it's about 41 it doesn't get better after uh hormone replacement
00:12:11.740
therapy or even actually doing the the full sex reassignment surgery so here we are right i will
00:12:17.320
disagree with you okay i uh i think the data shows that when people are able to live their lives
00:12:24.060
as themselves and i yo this chat someone said the kid is throwing upsets you are you're so bro bro
00:12:30.700
accepted in their community in their social networks that's their friends and their family
00:12:35.680
professionally in their city when they're not stigmatized when they don't lose their job when
00:12:40.020
they don't lose their housing when they aren't ostracized or demonized right like our state
00:12:45.120
legislature spent the vast last spring and then called a special session yeah yeah she's civil and
00:12:51.060
she's speaking like a politician but you know you could probably get confused with the empathy
00:12:57.580
and like believe in this shit now but still like at the end of the day yo look at you essentially
00:13:03.500
to demonize my existence based on somebody's you know i i don't honestly sincerely held religious
00:13:11.420
belief i'm not sure why but to basically challenge my very validity as a human being right then yeah
00:13:18.740
people can be frustrated and scared and terrified and hopeless and then kill themselves but in my
00:13:24.340
community when people are able to live their lives and are accepted and able to you know aren't
00:13:30.140
discriminated right then their suicide rate yo he she looks like a skyrim npc god damn man
00:13:38.540
yo you are really wrong for that bro rates fall dramatically the single best thing you can do
00:13:44.960
for somebody who's lbgtq of any sort but especially trans is recognize their truth and accept their
00:13:50.900
humanity well i would disagree with you there um and first off i think you made a couple yeah let
00:13:56.600
me explain why you made a couple the kid is not gdk bro you fucked up for that presumptions maybe
00:14:01.360
they're not uh uh trying to demonize your very existence maybe they just disagree with you and maybe
00:14:05.920
doesn't come from a christian perspective maybe it comes from a scientific one maybe it comes from a
00:14:09.920
perspective of a medical perspective for example at uh at john's office i think we're okay having a
00:14:15.940
conversation you and i right now right yeah we're good we're good thank you though um the white knight
00:14:21.020
came in to save the the skyrim broad bro like come on in the suicide rate statistically anecdotally i'm
00:14:26.180
glad to hear that that that your your group of friends do better because one thing i definitely
00:14:29.940
don't want people attempting suicide on a 41 it's not just my friends i mean the data from the national
00:14:35.540
center for trans equality the equality texas hrc it's not it's not like my anecdotal sort of
00:14:42.360
group of friends the scientific i'm saving you with my instagram live are you safe are you feeling
00:14:49.420
safe skyrim guy data shows that when people are not discriminated against and transgender individuals
00:14:57.620
who are able to live their life whether they you know just transition socially or hormone replacement
00:15:02.460
therapy or surgery whatever when people are able to live this is what karen's do they just start
00:15:07.260
recording stuff aggressively and pass it like it's just aggressively record you to try to fight back
00:15:13.320
their lives their mental health is better well statistically it's it's an accurate statistically
00:15:20.720
the suicide rate doesn't really improve after i you know i'm going to keep pushing back on that
00:15:25.200
so maybe that's something we can follow okay let's assume it's comparable let's assume it's
00:15:28.720
slightly lower let's let's go with that i've seen the studies that you're talking about and it might be
00:15:32.200
slightly lower it's not dramatically lower but i think this is predicated on the idea and i don't
00:15:37.060
think it's an ill-founded idea that because of discrimination because of societal pressure because
00:15:41.240
of feeling like an outsider uh people have more mental health issues people are more prone to
00:15:46.200
depression people are more likely to attempt suicide if they feel ostracized and isolated right
00:15:49.980
yeah if they're treated as less than human i would don't you just hate these karens bro like just
00:15:56.640
like yeah i'm standing here this is my right i'm gonna call the manager i would agree
00:16:01.940
um but the fact is minorities generally commit suicide or attempt at far fewer numbers for
00:16:07.760
example white males are two times more likely than black men the transgender attempted suicide rate
00:16:12.620
is higher than american slaves or jews in concentration camps are we to believe that um
00:16:18.380
they have they've been treated more poorly in modern america than american slaves or jews and
00:16:24.140
you're asking me to compare trans uh transgender individuals to uh no the statistical reality that
00:16:34.520
nowhere else do you find that suicide rate outside of some serious psychiatric disorders including
00:16:38.900
those who have been enslaved which might suggest again that this is a this is a not a truth as you
00:16:45.900
said um people may perceive it as a reality but it may not be um it may not be ideal to treat it just
00:16:51.380
telling people that that's the truth that's the reality when it's in conflict with biology and
00:16:55.860
their hormones and their brain and their biological makeup because it can have catastrophic results
00:17:00.640
and how many genders are there because now we're talking about non-binary right i know your genders are
00:17:09.200
this who gets to fucking make laws genders a continuum what does that even mean i think part
00:17:19.340
of our so like this is my take on it right and this is my own personal opinion and how i've come
00:17:23.960
how do you identify just so i make sure bro there's three people watching your instagram live karen stop
00:17:28.900
just standing like that you decide if as a woman i'm a transgender woman so you say transgender woman i
00:17:33.600
i like you know i'm comfortable owning the fact that i'm trans i don't know that any of us has a
00:17:39.740
responsibility to own anything about our own individuality like i don't think you anybody needs
00:17:46.080
to walk down the street and say hi i am chat stop it chat stop a heterosexual man or i am a homosexual
00:17:51.900
woman right like i but for me i'm comfortable being visible right i'm lucky that i get to live in
00:17:59.820
austin and i get to be visible and not suffer too many consequences now the reality is i am a very
00:18:07.840
small sliver of the trans population right i weren't white this is why he she's a politician it's just
00:18:14.560
magic tricks going on she's speaking really empathetically and you start to believe it right
00:18:18.660
professional right my murder rate if i were an african-american transgender woman i'd be 30 times
00:18:24.520
more likely to be murdered than i am so african-american men are much more likely to be murdered than white
00:18:29.520
men too so a big part of that is right not necessarily race is real right and that's that's
00:18:36.040
race is a component of every all of our interactions in society i think it's important
00:18:43.800
my truth right so like back to my truth i'm actually tired of hearing that can't there just
00:18:51.540
be an objective truth when did it change where people could just have my truth our gender identity
00:18:58.760
who we are in our brain from birth before before we're talking about any kind of hormonal replacement
00:19:05.640
okay yeah is uh varies across all of us i i'm that i like i'm at peace with i honestly think the
00:19:14.940
science will prove that fact there there was a study that was presented this summer in uh i forget
00:19:21.860
the researchers i think were belgian or dutch and it was presented in spain barcelona like a month ago
00:19:27.660
that doing imagery studying right so functional mris on brains of transgender children
00:19:34.120
before hrc okay so this is there have been some studies that have done in the most famous study
00:19:39.580
was the remedi study was the uh was done with folks who might have been in transition or post
00:19:44.160
transition yeah rip yo set yeah and this okay sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry i can't i can't do
00:19:50.180
it all right shouts move on this this is enough it's just going to be 50 minutes of the same