Tamara Leach of the Freedom Convoy joins me to talk about the ongoing case against her and her husband, Chris Leach, and how they are coping with the stress and anxiety of the trial. We also talk about what it's like to be a symbol of freedom in Canada.
00:00:00.900Well, welcome back to another episode of Stand on Guard.
00:00:03.620I'm your host, David Creighton, and it's my great pleasure to have Tamara Leach of the Freedom Convoy with me again.
00:00:10.460And we're going to be talking about a number of things, and we'll be back in just a minute.
00:00:15.260So we are in a very precarious position in this country.
00:00:19.500We need political change, but we also need to resolve to resist.
00:00:30.000Ah, no, Tamara, I've taken in my writing, I've taken to referring to you as a Freedom Convoy personality, because I don't want anyone thinking you were an organizer, because that's what this whole trial is about.
00:00:46.540So I don't know if you've noticed that, but I've been painstakingly trying to avoid any kind of linkage that would in any way help the prosecution in their charges here.
00:00:59.120So I've been referring to you and Chris as personalities of the Freedom Convoy, because I think that really is something that you've become.
00:01:07.240You've become a symbol, I think, of freedom in this country, not just a symbol of the Freedom Convoy, but a symbol of freedom.
00:01:15.700I mean, how do you look back on the last couple of years, and we're heading into a two-year anniversary in February, and the trial will not be over, but we'll get to that in a minute.
00:01:26.780But how do you feel right now? How does Tamara feel as a person, having gone through all of this up till now?
00:01:32.640Well, I honestly don't think the magnitude of this has hit me yet, and I think I'm kind of waiting until the end of this trial, you know, so that everything's done and settled, so I can kind of sit down and process, you know, everything that's happened.
00:01:54.520And it was the way I see it, I'm just a normal person, I'm just a regular person that, you know, got together with some other regular people, and we just had enough.
00:02:04.640And so I don't feel any different, you know, like, I don't know how to explain it, I can only be me.
00:02:15.440I think I understand exactly how you feel, you're not the sort of person who sees themselves as a star, and that's, and you really have become a symbol of freedom, though.
00:02:26.040But you were telling me when we emailed the other day that the trial is on hold again, and you don't expect to get back until March? How is it possible?
00:02:39.260I have no idea. They will have a couple more dates, but not full days. And then I think we've got about 10 days left for our defense. So hopefully mid-March, I guess. I don't know why it's taking so long.
00:02:53.660But it's true what they say in the Canadian legal system, it's that the punishment is the process.
00:02:59.660Oh, that's, that is so true. Even having to sit there day, day after day after day. Now you're going back and forth, obviously, from Ottawa, and you're,
00:03:09.260when the trial is in session. I mean, you're going back from your home to Ottawa. Is it, is the travel taking a toll on you?
00:03:17.200It's quite a drive, but my husband and I have got it down to an art now. We can make it in a half. As long as we team drive, we're good to go. But it, I mean, it's an incredible journey, but it's definitely one that we've come to love. Canada is a beautiful country. And if you haven't driven across it, everybody should. It's, it's gorgeous.
00:03:39.260Yeah, I've, I've made the trip from my hometown in Comox, Vancouver Island, to Ottawa, both five times by car. So I agree with you completely. You don't really appreciate the, the length and breadth of this country until you travel by car. You just don't get it and buy, buy aircraft. And it is a huge and beautiful country. And I've had a chance to see some of the other parts out east as well, since I've been in Ottawa.
00:04:06.720But it is a, it is a beautiful country. Now you were speaking before you started singing at your concert in Niagara on the lakes.
00:04:15.200And you said you're basically have not been put into any kind of depression or anxiety over the, over the trial, over the charges that you're still fairly upbeat and optimistic about yourself and Canada.
00:04:30.580Now, how do you really, how do you feel about the state of the country today?
00:04:34.100Well, I'm concerned, obviously. And, but I, I feel like things are turning around. And I think I talked about that in that speech too. Like, I really feel,
00:04:45.160A, that we're being bombarded by a lot of nonsense legislation and policies right now. And I don't think that that's by accident since the convoy. I think the convoy was the beginning of the end. It was like a great wake up.
00:04:59.220So everything that they had kind of planned on implementing, they had to, they had to speed up and get it through faster. But the great thing about the convoy was it opened up so many people's eyes.
00:05:09.460And I'll tell you, you know, people still come up to me all the time and they tell me their stories and I can't tell you how many people have said, you know, during the convoy, I didn't like you and I called you a lot of nasty names and I didn't know what you were doing there.
00:05:22.700But throughout the course of what's happened since then, they've also had their eyes open. And so they can kind of, you know, they, they see the concerns that are happening in our country too.
00:05:32.960So people are getting involved and taking action. And I think it's very positive. I mean, we are getting bombarded with a lot of negativity right now, but I mean, we're Canadians and we're some of the most positive people on the planet as far as I'm concerned. And I'm, I'm the same.
00:05:49.420Well, I, I talked to a lot of Americans because my primary media, the post-millennial is cross border. So I do largely Canadian stories. I do a lot of Canadian columns are in American columns.
00:06:01.700And when I'm speaking to people in the United States, they point to you in the freedom convoy as examples of what Canada is really all about. It's not about Justin Trudeau. It's not, it's not about craziness in the schools. It's not about censorship. It's about people like you in the freedom convoy.
00:06:21.700And they really point to that experience in February, January, February, as being a turning point, not only for Canada, but for the world. And how does, I mean, is that, would you agree with that?
00:06:37.940I would agree with that actually. You know, when we started organizing this, we had no idea how it was going to take off and no idea that it would go so global. You know, that was a shock to us, but it really did. It resonated all around the globe.
00:06:51.700Yeah. And it's, it's amazing to me how everybody around the world is going through the same kind of crises and not just, not just with the mandates, but there's a war on farmers.
00:07:05.940You know, I was recently at an event with Christine Anderson and one of the speakers was talking about the crisis in the Netherlands and how the farmers there have had such incredible trouble.
00:07:19.780They have been, they have been, had rules and regulations imposed on them to limit the size of their farms, limit the size of their livestock, limit the size of the fertilizer they use or the amount of fertilizer they use.
00:07:30.640And Canadian farmers are going through the same kind of thing. It's like there's a globalist trend here.
00:07:35.580And I, and I think though, that what the Freedom Convoy achieved is that we can fight back. We can fight back. Canadians don't have to just sit here and take it.
00:07:47.460And I want to thank you personally because you inspired me and the Freedom Convoy inspired me not to get another vaccine.
00:07:55.160I got two vaccines because I thought it was the right thing to do.
00:07:59.320I had a, I have a mother who's in a nursing home and I thought it's the right thing to do for, for the elderly.
00:08:04.840It's, it's the responsible thing to do. And I trusted my government and I trusted the pharmaceutical companies to make a product that was safe.
00:08:13.180And I have completely moved from that position. And I think, but because you stood up against it and Chris Barber stood up against it and so many thousands of others stood up against it.
00:08:24.740You, you encouraged us all to say, we don't have to take this.
00:08:28.260And I lost a sister last month who was a pro vaccine advocate and she couldn't get enough of it.
00:08:33.820And I seriously believe her death from pneumonia was probably caused by the vaccine.
00:08:40.700I know I'm not asking you to comment. I believe that, but I think my stake in this whole issue has become that much more personal because of that.
00:08:49.300And I, I salute the work you did. And I think one of the reasons we're not walking around with masks on right now.
00:08:57.080And, and we don't have a minister of health saying you better get another booster shot next month.
00:09:02.540It's because of the work you did. So I, you know, I thank you for, for the courage that you showed and determination you've, you've showed going through this horrible legal process.
00:09:51.000I'm constantly telling Freedom Convoy participants to peacefully protest, not to interfere with the local residents and to obey the police.
00:10:01.860If I heard it once, I heard it a hundred times and I scratched my head and I wrote about this extensively.
00:10:07.880I said, what are they trying to prove with this? I mean, did you sit there and wonder what, what is the point here?
00:10:12.400Well, I, I kind of sat there and thought, thank you. You're making your, this is my defense. So you're, you're presenting my whole defense. You know what I mean?
00:10:21.600Yeah. Well, it was, it was extremely awkward. And at times, of course, prosecution played videotape or clips that they obviously hadn't even pre, pre heard or, or, or played for themselves because there was just background noise, phones going on.
00:10:42.040And I, at times it was like, it was a three ring circus. And I was wondering what, what, what are they trying to do here? And I mentioned that, I mentioned that you're a lawyer.
00:10:52.500And I think you're, you've, you've, you've been very well represented by Lawrence Greenspawn, who I've talked to most of the time. I know you've got three other folks on the, on the trial, but Lawrence, I think is doing a fabulous job.
00:11:05.960And I spoke to him several times about the defense and he just, you know, he publicly doesn't want to see what he really wants to, what he's really feeling. But he agreed that the prosecution, it was tending to show a lot of clips that showed you and Chris Barber in a very favorable light.
00:11:21.480And I think that's been the impression. I've talked to some of the reporters who are there and not always from friendly sources. And there's a general consensus is that this, that the prosecution was not always playing material that benefited their side of the case.
00:11:37.180So I think overall, I mean, large, everybody knows my opinion on this case. I, I'm a columnist. I'm an op-ed writer as well as a reporter. I've made it clear that I'm on your side and, and I, I don't think there's a case here, but there's a lot of other media there who are, if they're not in the court every day, they're reporting on it. I think they've been fairly fair.
00:12:00.060Have you, have you found the reporting thus far to be fairly objective and fair?
00:12:04.460The tone shift in the reporting that's happened with probably within the last six months, as more and more evidence comes out that shows that we were peaceful and we were following the law and we did our very, very best to keep people safe and, you know, public safety and all that kind of stuff.
00:12:27.280Um, I've noticed a shift in the tone of some of the mainstream media reporting, because I think they know they've lost the narrative. Like they lost the plot, read the room. And, um, so I think, uh, it's softening a little bit, you know, I mean, they still grab the, the headline catching quotes, like the downtown residents were terrorized or, you know what I mean?
00:12:52.220But I think for the most part, uh, they're doing much better. I will tell you, uh, David Fraser is doing an amazing job with, and he's with the CBC. So, you know, when I talked to him a few days ago, before we left Ottawa to thank him, because I know that he's doing his very best to keep everything neutral and unbiased. And I think he's doing a good job. And so for me to shout out anybody from the CBC is quite a thing. Let me tell you, cause I'm not a fan.
00:13:22.220I, I, I was going to mention, uh, David Fraser by name, because I've, uh, spoken to him on a number of occasions. And if I miss a day, that's, that's the story I go to, because I know I'm going to get the whole story. Unlike what I usually experience.
00:13:39.600I've, I've, I've actually written for CBC in the past as sort of a token conservative columnist. And I know CBC has an intrinsic bias. I know they're tendentious. I know that they did everything possible to undermine the, your, this protest during the time it was occurring while they sat in their, their heated offices and never left.
00:14:03.620And I, on the other hand, I was, I was reporting at the time for, uh, human events, uh, American publication. And I, I, I was out in the street freezing and I didn't see any other reporters in the mainstream media there.
00:14:17.620Um, not often, you were going to say, yeah, it was, it was a travesty. Honestly, I think the mainstream media missed out on a golden opportunity.
00:14:31.720I, you know, like we saw the unity that happened throughout the convoy. And I think the mainstream media had a golden opportunity to really bring the whole country together. If they would have only told the truth and instead they chose to call us, uh, names, uh, make wild accusations.
00:14:52.940Like we were infiltrated by the Russians or tried to burn down an apartment building. I mean, there was no fact checking. And then as you saw throughout the inquiry, what happened was during the convoy, the police and the city were responding to media reports, but the media reports weren't accurate. And then you saw the cycle of BS basically that just perpetuated itself throughout the whole thing.
00:15:18.520But if there was a lot of misinformation, I don't always like to use that word, but there was a lot of news stories that were totally based on social media reports from people like the, the, I, the one that comes to mind is that ridiculous story about the arson that supposedly occurred in an apartment complex. That was entirely based on one person's imaginary tweet. It was all from Twitter as it was known at the time.
00:15:47.420And it was any investigation was based on some idiot writing about this arson that never happened. And if it had, what did it have to do with the freedom convoy? Like so many things we found out afterwards.
00:16:00.540They were so desperate violent insurrectionists. They were so desperate. And that's why we had to take great pains to try and, you know, constantly remind people to be peaceful because they were just, it was provocation.
00:16:14.540It was provocation. It was provocation at every corner, every turn. And I'll tell you the Canadians, they didn't bite. And, and it is something to be really proud of. You know, we, we held our ground. We remain.
00:16:28.300We weren't, you know, radicals and, you know, destroying property. And so Canadians should be very proud of themselves for that. I think they, they really kept it together.
00:16:41.420Yeah, I, I certainly think there was incredible restraint, Sean. And I was there, of course, when the emergencies act was invoked and the police came down very hard. It was brutal.
00:16:54.740And reporters were even hurt in, in the rush and the suppression that, that occurred. And I, I was there to watch it, unlike a lot of other reporters who watched it from their windows.
00:17:08.880And it was very brutal response. But I think at that point, a lot of Canadians said, this has gone way too far. This is not Canada. And peaceful protesters should not be under the boot, literal boot of the police. This looks more like a totalitarian state. And I think that affected public opinion, don't you?
00:17:29.120Oh, totally. I do. Yeah. I think that was his, the beginning of his downfall, finally. But it sure has taken a long time. They could speed that up a little bit. That would be good.
00:17:40.280Yeah. Of course, Justin Trudeau is not in any way involved in this trial. People keep suggesting to me that this is Trudeau against. And I say, yes, Trudeau's policy is there every day.
00:17:57.680But this is technically not the federal government that has issued these charges. It strikes me, though, is very ironic. And I couldn't help but laugh at the irony and the hypocrisy. Trudeau, of course, and so many liberals described the Freedom Convoy participants as not just racist and misogynistic, but in Trudeau's famous words, which he lied about at the inquiry, said he'd never said that about Freedom Convoy participants being
00:18:28.100racist and racist and misogynistic. He also tried to smear the Convoy with Nazi symbolism, claiming he saw a Nazi flag. And I'm not even going to get into that because it's such sheer nonsense. But so many liberals describe the Convoy as a bunch of Nazis, which I think is the ultimate smear these days. As calling someone a Nazi or a racist, it doesn't get much lower than that.
00:18:53.120But it struck me as almost poetic justice when Trudeau and the Speaker and the government house leader all get implicated for inviting a former Nazi, Waffen-SS soldier to the House of Commons. He sits in the gallery and gets two standing ovations. Now, that was a real Nazi. Did you find that ironic that Justin Trudeau would be at the center of that?
00:19:17.800Well, it's not surprising. I mean, these people aren't smart. Well, I shouldn't say that. They're smart people. They're just not wise.
00:19:26.660And I said this in my speech in Niagara last weekend. You know, it feels like a bit of karma is coming back to bite these guys in the butt because the things that they accused us of doing is all coming back on them.
00:19:38.640Like the taking money from foreign entities. Well, we found out what about four or five months ago that, excuse me, the Trudeau Foundation was taking money from Beijing.
00:19:48.960They accused us of being infiltrated by the Russians and having foreign interference. Well, hello, China.
00:19:55.140You know, that's come back on them also. And, you know, stuff like that.
00:20:00.060Karma is the thing. And I believe all this, the things that they've accused us of doing is all coming back to roost now, you know, and it looks really bad for them.
00:20:12.540I couldn't believe that Nazi in the house. I mean, oh, my gosh, do some research.
00:20:19.920Yeah, I was actually the first Canadian publication, post-millennial was the first Canadian publication to release that story.
00:20:30.060And actually, I have to confess, I found out about the story by reading Ezra LeVant's tweets the night before.
00:20:38.500He was mulling over this and considering going with it.
00:20:42.160And I and I and I and I said, holy hell, I know enough about the history myself.
00:20:46.740And all I all I looked for was one credible source to say that this this was true, that this guy had been a member of this of this regiment.
00:20:56.600And I found a Jewish publication in the States, very credible, had run with the story first.
00:21:02.740And this was early Saturday morning. They had come up with the story.
00:21:06.560And I said, yes, let's go with this. This is true.
00:21:09.500And then, of course, a lot of other people followed.
00:21:12.180But it wasn't until it became so well known in social media that the legacy media really acknowledged the story, that this was a massive embarrassment.
00:21:23.960They've never acknowledged that Trudeau knew about it, that the House leader knew about it.
00:21:29.060They met with this man before the event.
00:22:01.040And in the October update, there was more money allocated to legacy media to pay for reporters.
00:22:10.400Trudeau continues to subsidize most of the media in Canada.
00:22:13.820And I just did a story last night about the CBC.
00:22:17.940Finally, the president of the CBC, Catherine Tate, is going to be hauled in front of the Heritage Committee to explain how it's possible to cut 600 positions
00:22:28.380and still have bonuses for the executives.
00:22:31.880I mean, I think this is finally, there's some responsibility.
00:28:27.280Somebody said that, made that comment to me the other day that they thought it was funny that the, one of the main organizers, me, that they were, you know, so misogynistic.
00:28:38.760Yeah, and he, he seems to want it both ways, claiming that you're the primary organizer, but somehow you're not, you're not a man.
00:28:48.980And that's, that didn't ever seem to jive with, with Trudeau's narrative or the narrative of much of the mainstream media at the time.
00:28:56.700So, so I think, you know, we're, we're, we're at least halfway through the trial.
00:29:02.700And as I've said several times, this is the sort of thing that should have been over in a couple of days.
00:29:09.260It shouldn't have happened at all, but it should have been over in a couple of days.
00:29:13.620Most mischief trials don't even come to a trial or mischief charges don't even come to a trial.
00:29:19.520Well, and yet here we are, we started the Tuesday after Labor Day, I remember it quite vividly, it was a beautiful summer day.
00:29:28.200And here we are approaching winter, and we're not even halfway, we're about halfway through, I guess.
00:29:36.660And we probably won't have a verdict, though, what, till maybe summer?
00:29:50.200If we can find all those dates in March, then who knows how long it's going to take for her to make her decision, too.
00:29:55.560So, I mean, yeah, we could be looking at the summer or fall, which is absolutely, I mean, the taxpayer money that they are spending on this is phenomenal.
00:30:06.460And when you think about it, I mean, with the, even with the lack of evidence that you've seen and I've seen, I mean, I don't even know how this made it past the JPT.
00:30:14.440No, I don't either, in all honesty, except we both know it's political.
00:30:22.500We both know this would never have happened to anybody else if there wasn't a political basis for this.
00:30:30.640And I think, as I watch this, and I have written quite extensively on how humorous it can be at times, but also, in the back of my mind, I'm saying this is all about intimidation.
00:30:45.320This is all about trying to ensure this doesn't happen again.
00:30:50.000This is all about convincing Canadians that if you protest Justin Trudeau's policies or the provincial government's policies or even the municipal government's policies, you're going to be hauled in front of a courtroom, embarrassed, humiliated, and they'll attempt to bankrupt you in the process.
00:31:09.460And I know you're getting, you're getting fundraising for this, thank God for that, because you couldn't do it otherwise, who could?
00:31:16.900But do you think that's at the, is that foundational to this?
00:31:33.600Unfortunately for them, they picked on the wrong woman, because I am not going to back down.
00:31:38.760They do not scare me, and they do not intimidate me, and so they have no power over me.
00:31:45.060But what they're trying to do is scare everybody else, right?
00:31:48.600Well, don't do this, like you said, or we're going to drag you through the court system.
00:31:52.260I'm very lucky that I have the democracy fund helping me with my legal fees, but all the cost of us traveling back and forth, staying there, eating there, all comes out of our pocket.
00:32:04.960So, you know, it is, it is, it's lawfare.
00:32:09.340They want to deplete your resources and demoralize you and intimidate you, and unfortunately for them, in my case, it's not going to work.
00:32:45.020I'm not, I'm not exactly sure what the numbers that we've sold, but you know, it's, it's, in Canada, it's really hard to have a book take off.
00:33:02.960And a lot of, there's a lot of details in it that people didn't know about it.
00:33:07.360And it's funny, when we started talking about writing the book, you know, we discussed how long it should be.
00:33:12.540And I remember Ezra saying about 200, 250 pages, and I just thought, that's impossible.
00:33:20.940Like, this is a saga, you know, there's like so much, there's even so much that's not even in the book.
00:33:26.960Like, there was just so much happening at the time, and so much even that's come out through the inquiry, and even some of the evidence that we've heard here through our trial.
00:34:18.400My focus, well, my focus right now is to make sure that everybody else that needs help fundraising for legal fees,
00:34:25.560because there's a lot of people that have trials coming up or hearings coming up or fines to pay that don't, don't have, you know, an organization like TDF or the JCCF helping them.
00:34:36.480So I think it's really important that all of these people get some attention and, and some funding so that if there's one thing I've learned out of this whole experience is that, you know, you get the lawyer that you pay for, unfortunately.
00:34:50.080And at the end of the day, that's really what it comes down to.
00:34:53.680And so I really want to try and help as many people as we possibly can.
00:35:00.740And then I don't know what's going to happen.
00:35:02.580What, I mean, I really, I would like to continue advocating for Canadians' rights and freedoms.
00:35:07.700I mean, that's something I believe that we always have to be vigilant about.
00:35:13.100This is, this is why we're at where we're at.
00:35:14.700You know, we kind of dropped our guard on that a little bit.
00:35:17.500And I think that we need people that are going to, that are going to stand up for those rights and be vocal about it.
00:35:25.300Well, I think in you, Canadian freedom has not only an eloquent spokeswoman, but a courageous one who's actually lived it.
00:35:34.560It's easy, much easier to talk about these things, to say, to espouse freedom, to espouse liberty.
00:35:42.060But when you've had to live it the way you have, and you've had to defend it the way you have, I think that gives you a credibility that a lot of commentators and pundits will never have.
00:35:52.140And I think that makes you rather unique.
00:35:54.500And I hope you can continue to fight for freedom, no matter where your life goes, Tamara.