Stay Free - Russel Brand - BIDEN just got DESTROYED in the debate & Exclusive Jonathan Roumie Interview

00:00:00.000 so so

00:01:36.000 so I'm going to see the future. I'm going to see the future.

00:01:57.000 I'm going to see the future.

00:02:04.000 Brought to you by Pfizer.

00:02:11.000 In this video, you're going to see the future.

00:02:19.000 Oh, shit.

00:02:24.000 We've got a live shot there.

00:02:29.000 Hello there, you Awakening Wanderers.

00:02:31.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:02:34.000 Like you, maybe, I watched the debate.

00:02:36.000 Unlike you, I watched it in the UK.

00:02:39.000 So I'm pretty delirious right now, but a degree of delirium is perhaps helpful when trying to interpret and appreciate what we witnessed last night.

00:02:47.000 If that wasn't the end of the Joe Biden presidency, I don't know what people are waiting for.

00:02:54.000 A physical death, effluvia to emerge from his body.

00:02:58.000 What do people require?

00:03:00.000 The problem is, of course, that his senescence, dementia and obvious decay is the perfect

00:03:07.000 metaphor for the decay of the system that he is nominally the head of.

00:03:13.000 And now we are seeing the mainstream establishment being confronted with what you have long known.

00:03:19.000 This person cannot be the leader of the free world.

00:03:22.000 This man who is led away from the stage either by previous presidents or his own, fortunately,

00:03:27.000 doctor wife is not the president of the United States, cannot continue to be the president

00:03:32.000 of the United States.

00:03:33.000 And however much you may detest Trump, you certainly can't claim that he would be a worse

00:03:38.000 bet than Joe Biden.

00:03:40.000 Some time ago, I said, look, if you were forced to choose one of those people, and I know how a lot of you feel about Donald Trump, you love Donald Trump, his brazenness, his manner, etc.

00:03:47.000 I would say that America is in safer hands in Donald Trump's hands.

00:03:52.000 Ludicrously, RFK was excluded from that debate.

00:03:55.000 Now, I want you to tell me in the comments and the chat, what do you think this precipitates?

00:03:59.000 The emergence of Michelle Obama?

00:04:02.000 Careful now!

00:04:03.000 The emergence of Gavin Newsom?

00:04:05.000 Does it mean that Vivek Ramaswamy is a soothsayer and a fortune teller who foretold that this...

00:04:12.000 The whole debate was three months earlier than usual to give the Democrat establishment the opportunity to see and demonstrate what we all plainly knew.

00:04:21.000 This was a man who is not capable of running the United States of America.

00:04:26.000 And for a moment, let's step back from the circus and the showbiz and the glitz and the glamour.

00:04:31.000 Let's, for a moment, put aside our awareness that No longer does the constitutional document adorn CNN's backdrop, reminding us what America's meant to be, just the bland, banalising logos of CNN itself.

00:04:46.000 What is America now?

00:04:48.000 What are we supposed to hope for?

00:04:49.000 What are we meant to look forwards to?

00:04:51.000 Remember, of course, that we are potentially on the edge of nuclear war, conflagrations across the Middle East, incendiary language across Europe, populism understandably on the rise because this is the moment that the Tower of Babel fell.

00:05:08.000 This is the moment where we are confronted with the fact that the establishment is out of ideas.

00:05:13.000 The old idea is dead.

00:05:15.000 The new thing is yet to emerge.

00:05:17.000 People, of course, are understandably enthusiastic about nationalism, isolationism, because the world is in so much chaos.

00:05:24.000 Let's have a look As some of the most galling and upsetting moments of last night, let us remember that we are trying, aren't we, to be spiritual beings, not to be condemnatory or cruel, but we cannot deny the evidence of our own eyes any longer.

00:05:40.000 We're not Rachel Maddow.

00:05:42.000 Let's have a look at some of the worst moments from last night.

00:05:45.000 Until we get the total ban, the total initiative relative to what we're going to do with more border patrol and more asylum officers.

00:05:55.000 President Trump?

00:05:56.000 I really don't know what he said at the end of this.

00:05:58.000 I don't think he knows what he said either.

00:06:00.000 Look... I think what we're being introduced to here is a new side of Donald Trump.

00:06:06.000 I know people of course that know Donald Trump well who tell you that he's a sweet...

00:06:10.000 Affable, lovely man.

00:06:12.000 When it comes to his relationship with Joe Biden, he's been pretty acerbic and cruel.

00:06:16.000 But I get the sense that on a human level, Donald Trump actually felt quite compassionate and wounded.

00:06:21.000 Because you know elderly people.

00:06:23.000 You probably have witnessed people descend into senility that you love.

00:06:28.000 If you look at Joe Biden from four years ago, the 2020 debate, he's like Timothee Chalamet or Douglas Murray watching Oscar Wilde.

00:06:38.000 He's not the firebrand of the 80s.

00:06:41.000 Ranting and raving and roaring his way through some beige and brown nostalgic sepia whirlwind of testosterone.

00:06:50.000 But by God, compared to what we're watching now.

00:06:53.000 And remember, what's important is to observe the symbol.

00:06:56.000 Observe the fact that we've been told that this is the bet to vote against Joe Biden, you'll vote against democracy.

00:07:02.000 What we now know is that it cannot be democracy.

00:07:06.000 That cannot be the president of the United States.

00:07:09.000 You cannot realistically vote for Joe Biden as the president of the United States

00:07:14.000 when we're on the precipice of so many dangerous things.

00:07:17.000 Think of the things that didn't come up in any real detail, the handling of the pandemic, the real possibility of war,

00:07:23.000 any actual substantial discussion of policy or politics or geopolitics or a vision of how to improve America

00:07:32.000 other than of course, the recognizable and familiar tropes that Donald Trump has made his name on for many years.

00:07:38.000 And presumably, unless there's some sort of great sway towards RFK will become the foundation of his next term.

00:07:46.000 Here's the moment that you will have seen at our post on X, I'm sure of it.

00:07:50.000 It's one of the moments that many people have noticed is a kind of, we might call it the kill shot.

00:07:56.000 All those things we need to do, child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to... Joe Biden cannot talk about elder care as if it's an abstract policy.

00:08:06.000 He has to talk about it as an immediate priority for himself.

00:08:10.000 Strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with dealing with everything we have to do with, look, if we finally beat Medicare.

00:08:32.000 Thank you, President Biden.

00:08:33.000 President Trump?

00:08:35.000 Well he's right, he did beat medicare.

00:08:37.000 He beat it to death and he's destroying medicare because all of these people are coming.

00:08:41.000 That's the chief trump moment.

00:08:43.000 That's the moment that they didn't want to happen.

00:08:45.000 That's why you had muted microphones.

00:08:47.000 That's why you've got an absented RFK.

00:08:50.000 That's why you've got no studio audience to prevent moments like that taking place.

00:08:55.000 It was almost a relief when they seemed to be on the precipice of announcing that they were going to resolve this debate by having a round of golf.

00:09:03.000 I was watching it live.

00:09:04.000 I'm in the UK.

00:09:05.000 I'm exhausted.

00:09:07.000 We're having troubles with our stream.

00:09:08.000 We're wondering if we're under some sort of BDOS attack style cyber warfare.

00:09:14.000 And I was watching them talk about golf handicaps and golf swings and whether or not this should be settled on the green.

00:09:20.000 This, to me, is when the circus descends into absurdity.

00:09:25.000 When the inutility of the entire modality is exposed.

00:09:30.000 Not only is the Emperor naked, he's got an incredible skin disease.

00:09:34.000 Look at what he is.

00:09:36.000 Look, I'd be happy to have a driving contest with him.

00:09:38.000 For him, I got my handicap, which when I was vice president, down to a six.

00:09:46.000 This terrifies me because it makes me wonder where their actual egos and their identities lie.

00:09:51.000 You know, these aren't just synecdoches of power, they're actual human beings with egos.

00:09:56.000 And Donald Trump is, you know, plainly and popularly and understood to be a fanatical golfer.

00:10:03.000 But then you, in that moment, sort of get a glimpse of a deeper reality, like when they're sort of Two old crotchety dudes bickering about golf.

00:10:11.000 Aren't you sort of beginning to understand the problem with the entire system?

00:10:15.000 That, hang on a minute, we shouldn't be trusting anybody with that amount of power.

00:10:19.000 They're just human beings like us that are worrying about their golf score.

00:10:22.000 Which is literally an example that Joseph Campbell, the great mythologist and analyst, Gives, as a way of understanding whether or not you're at the right point in your life.

00:10:33.000 If you're still worried about your golf score in your 80s, then you need to understand mythology.

00:10:39.000 This is a time to become elders, advisors, guardians and guides to the next generation.

00:10:44.000 Both these men have experienced extraordinary things.

00:10:46.000 Joe Biden has experienced the death of children and things that are tragic.

00:10:51.000 And Donald Trump plainly has loads to offer.

00:10:53.000 But really, if you're watching this and thinking that The solution is available to you on screen.

00:10:59.000 And I think we need to have a deep, deep inward look.

00:11:03.000 And maybe have a look at some of the stuff Bobby Kennedy was saying as well.

00:11:05.000 But man, I believe that we need deep systemic change.

00:11:09.000 Even CNN are willing to start confronting some pretty difficult truths.

00:11:14.000 Let's have a look at that.

00:11:17.000 Who won the debate, we asked debate watchers in our instant poll, and the answer is a resounding Donald Trump did.

00:11:25.000 67% of debate watchers in our poll say Donald Trump won the debate tonight.

00:11:29.000 Joe Biden, 33% say he won the debate tonight.

00:11:33.000 Oh dear.

00:11:34.000 And that's on CNN, who have done everything they can to create an environment for Joe Biden to succeed in.

00:11:41.000 But the only environment that Joe Biden can succeed in is possibly a stairlift or a coma.

00:11:47.000 I'm not gonna do any more jokes like that.

00:11:47.000 Sorry, that's it.

00:11:49.000 President Trump walking off the stage.

00:11:51.000 The first debate of the 2024 campaign and the earliest presidential debate ever now in the books and in front of the voters.

00:11:58.000 Tonight, along with Aaron Burnett, the first... I'm still debating them!

00:12:01.000 I'll debate you harder!

00:12:02.000 I'll debate you to within an inch of your life!

00:12:04.000 The debate's finished.

00:12:05.000 What, what debate?

00:12:07.000 Word on what those voters might make of it from our political professionals, from our CNN flash poll, and swing state focus group.

00:12:13.000 We'll be talking to surrogates, including Vice President Harris, getting fact checks from our Daniel Dale, and new reporting from inside both campaigns.

00:12:19.000 With me here, CNN political commentator Scott Jennings.

00:12:22.000 Tell me what you like about Donald Trump, but he did leave the stage independently.

00:12:26.000 Here's Jill Biden congratulating Joe Biden in a manner which makes it difficult to cling on to the notion that what we have here is the leader of the free world.

00:12:37.000 That what we have here is the epitome and symbol of the kind of political solutions that the world requires right now.

00:12:44.000 Joe, you did such a great job.

00:12:46.000 You answered every question.

00:12:47.000 every question you knew all the facts.

00:12:50.000 Once I attended a graduation for a learning centre for adults with learning difficulties

00:13:00.000 and I would say that the general tone was less patronising and many of the achievements far superior.

00:13:05.000 Let me ask the crowd, what did Trump do?

00:13:10.000 Why?

00:13:11.000 Yes.

00:13:12.000 Jill Biden is to be applauded, I suppose, for trying to hold together.

00:13:19.000 She lives in the reality of that, I suppose, domestically.

00:13:21.000 And so perhaps now we're all encroaching on actual cruelty.

00:13:25.000 I know that many of you have said in the chat many times that we're on the precipice of elder abuse.

00:13:30.000 Let's see how CNN, having brought together this Barnum-like event that perhaps more than anything else tells us that we need a radical, deep inventory of the way that we run the world, As the BRICS currency grows, as nuclear war approaches, as de-dollarization takes place, as the world gets excessively and increasingly militarized as a response to America's economic decline, as American infrastructure collapses, as the reckoning required as a result of the pandemic period is still not correctly undertaken, this is CNN awakening to the fact

00:14:10.000 There is no two ways about it.

00:14:12.000 That was not a good debate for Joe Biden.

00:14:17.000 That was painful.

00:14:18.000 I love Joe Biden.

00:14:19.000 I work for Joe Biden.

00:14:20.000 He didn't do well at all.

00:14:22.000 He did not do well at all.

00:14:23.000 That was not a good debate for Joe Biden.

00:14:25.000 That was painful.

00:14:28.000 I love Joe Biden.

00:14:29.000 I work for Joe Biden.

00:14:32.000 He didn't do well at all.

00:14:35.000 He did not do well at all.

00:14:37.000 And he looked, you know, I'll give you the analysis, you know, kind of have the old man

00:14:42.000 versus the con man.

00:14:43.000 Yeah, okay.

00:14:45.000 Let's cling on to those ideas for a while if we can.

00:14:48.000 But it's sort of extraordinary, actually, that there's this much analysis required and

00:14:53.000 applied to something that's been evident for so long.

00:14:57.000 Actually, I'll be honest with you, when I was watching it live and clinging on to a cigar and clinging on to Wi-Fi in the dead of night while Rumble was clearly experiencing some sort of external threat.

00:15:08.000 I almost thought, well, what did you expect from Joe Biden?

00:15:12.000 We watch Joe Biden all the time.

00:15:14.000 There's a point where, just as a comedian, I don't want to talk about it anymore because it seems cruel, unnecessary and downright repetitive.

00:15:22.000 And the sight of pundits and experts, well, no, that wasn't a good debate.

00:15:26.000 Well, what do you expect?

00:15:28.000 You You elected, essentially elected, or at least through some kind of heritage mentality, pushed to the forefront a politician who was never suitable for the job in the first place, in the same way that you pushed Hillary Clinton, in the same way they missed the Bernie Sanders opportunity.

00:15:46.000 That is an institutionalised party that created everything that it detests.

00:15:51.000 in the rise of popularism. What they could have done is looked at candidates like Marianne

00:15:56.000 Williamson or RFK, what they'll do now, presumably in this apocalypse that they've created, is

00:16:02.000 start looking at Michelle Obama. Stop it! I said stop it!

00:16:06.000 Or Gavin Newsom or whoever they can usher up. But if they can generate any enthusiasm,

00:16:12.000 if they can generate any goodwill, if their ongoing demonization and hysteria around Donald

00:16:18.000 Trump, whose entire rise is based on his ability to brazenly confront systemic

00:16:24.000 corruption, be candid about his own position, well, they use the same systems.

00:16:30.000 The game is up for them.

00:16:31.000 I don't know what they're gonna do next, although my deep fear is that there won't be an election.

00:16:37.000 That there will be some kind of crisis, that there will be some kind of delay, and increasingly, the people that are on the periphery of the spaces that we now live in are the voices that seem more reliable.

00:16:48.000 Because remember, if you watch this kind of media, you knew that this was coming.

00:16:53.000 You are not surprised by those events because it's precisely what you anticipated.

00:16:58.000 But for Erin Burnett, this still constitutes a surprise.

00:17:02.000 He goes through six days of preparation at Camp David.

00:17:05.000 And they know the rules.

00:17:05.000 More than that.

00:17:06.000 It was more than a week.

00:17:07.000 Okay, so more than a week.

00:17:08.000 They know the rules.

00:17:09.000 He practices with the mics.

00:17:11.000 He knows every one of these questions is coming.

00:17:14.000 And yet he couldn't fill the time.

00:17:15.000 Now, I just want to, let's see what the White House is saying.

00:17:18.000 Sources close to the White House are saying he had a cold, wasn't feeling well.

00:17:21.000 I mean, as you would expect, that came out early on in the debate.

00:17:24.000 But what accounts for someone with so much experience doing so much preparation and this being the outcome?

00:17:28.000 Honestly, I think the question answers itself.

00:17:31.000 He wasn't capable of Right, okay, well that's a concern.

00:17:37.000 Now, many people will make much of Donald Trump's familiar ability to, let's say, narrativise on the spot, but CNN have been forced to fact-check Biden, and the fact is that they've checked out.

00:17:52.000 Some of them.

00:17:52.000 He said he's the only president in a while who didn't have any troops dying anywhere in the world.

00:17:56.000 Troops have, of course, died on his watch.

00:17:58.000 He said he's put in a $15 per shot cap on insulin in Medicare.

00:18:02.000 It's a $35 a month cap.

00:18:04.000 He said it's a $200 cap on overall drug spending in Medicare.

00:18:07.000 It's a $2,000 cap.

00:18:08.000 They can't even say that Donald Trump is a liar anymore.

00:18:11.000 They can't even say that that's the distinction.

00:18:13.000 All that is left now is propaganda and faith.

00:18:16.000 You might as well fall entirely into a faith-based mentality.

00:18:22.000 You might as well reject this system, absolutely.

00:18:24.000 The idea now that you can say, look, the grown-ups are back in charge.

00:18:28.000 Or the idea that you can say, listen, we just need a safe pair of hands.

00:18:31.000 The idea that you can say, in order to stop Putin, we've got to... All you can do now is aghast.

00:18:38.000 Sit back and marvel at the revelation that your systems are falling and failing.

00:18:44.000 This is the end!

00:18:45.000 This is the end!

00:18:46.000 Maybe the end was some time ago.

00:18:49.000 Maybe the reason that this is such a cataclysm and such a tectonic moment is because now the truth is unavoidable.

00:18:57.000 They can't conjure up new narratives the way they have around the pandemic.

00:19:00.000 They can't pretend in the way that they have with Russia-Ukraine that, oh, well, Putin's just an aggressor.

00:19:07.000 That war began there.

00:19:08.000 All of the numerous lies, deceptions that have been practiced for decades.

00:19:12.000 Those of you that have been watching carefully know the tropes, know the history, know the moments with all of the subjects that I've brought up.

00:19:19.000 Now it's come to a kind of singularity of senility is what we've just witnessed.

00:19:24.000 And the truth is, I'm afraid at this point, Unavoidable.

00:19:28.000 There's no way out of it.

00:19:29.000 Well, you might find a way out of it if you're Rachel Maddow.

00:19:33.000 Here's Rachel Maddow, God love her, trying to see if from this viper's nest of senescence and senility and entropy, some new story can be conjured up.

00:19:47.000 Like a broken molecule, repurposed somehow.

00:19:51.000 Some shivering new element might be discovered down there in the quantum dregs of last night.

00:19:58.000 And I think with probably strange results.

00:20:01.000 Um, I mean, we'll see the response from both sides, but if you're the Biden campaign, I think you wish that this right, this night will be remembered in reverse as the president became sort of stronger, including his literally his voice, the strength of his voice over the course of the night, probably.

00:20:20.000 It's not a concert.

00:20:21.000 You can't say, well, over the course of the evening, once he warmed up, he really got past those nodules.

00:20:26.000 Because this is not a matter of vocal ability and vocal range.

00:20:30.000 This is a matter of politics, geopolitics.

00:20:33.000 This is a moment where many of us suspect that there is deep corruption, that the world is in fact one Run, excuse me, by cartels and cadres and cabals around the world, by corporate and globalist interests, by bureaucratic bodies that the media lies and amplifies.

00:20:49.000 It's not enough to say, but by the end of the evening, by God, it sounded beautiful, didn't it?

00:20:54.000 It was like Pavarotti out there!

00:20:56.000 ...peaking towards the very, very end of the debate for the Trump campaign.

00:21:00.000 I think it's fair to say it was the inverse President Trump, just in terms of his coherence and finishing a sentence and seeming to be in control of his own emotions.

00:21:11.000 Have you watched the recent Mehdi Hussein-Douglas Murray debate?

00:21:14.000 I mention this because it is obviously one of the most contentious issues of our time, the ongoing Middle Eastern conflagrations that define not only contemporary politics but actual biblical history, the history of the Abrahamic faiths.

00:21:29.000 You can watch that debate and you can decide for yourself.

00:21:31.000 The audience certainly decided that Douglas Murray won that debate.

00:21:35.000 But there are many people online that say, oh, Mehdi Hussain, they took Douglas Murray at school.

00:21:39.000 And there are many people saying, oh, Douglas Murray is a brilliant orator.

00:21:42.000 In fact, both of those people are about to have an argument.

00:21:44.000 Believe me, I've had conversations with them both, actually.

00:21:47.000 Or maybe I haven't with Douglas Murray, actually, but I've certainly watched a lot of him.

00:21:50.000 And there's no doubt that these are very lucid, brilliant communicators.

00:21:54.000 You can't now create a new silo where you say anything other than, Joe Biden's presidency is over.

00:22:01.000 It was over before it began.

00:22:02.000 We put a stooge in the White House in the first place.

00:22:05.000 We tried to put an apparatchik in there to get a third term out of Obama.

00:22:09.000 Obama himself let everybody down in 2008 and in fact created the Donald Trump phenomena because of his inability to address the financial crisis that took place during his presidency.

00:22:20.000 There was a possibility that there would be a kind of Leftist, if you want to call it that, populism in the figure of Bernie Sanders, but now that dude's been totally co-opted.

00:22:29.000 All of the enthusiasm around figures like AOC has been blended and bled back into a system of total corruption.

00:22:35.000 You've got no one to blame but yourselves.

00:22:37.000 You can't create a new narrative out of this.

00:22:39.000 You deserve to lose the election to Donald Trump.

00:22:42.000 Still had the opportunity of RFK and what did you say about him?

00:22:45.000 This guy's a lunatic as well.

00:22:46.000 He's a lunatic because of vaccines.

00:22:48.000 Now I know there'll be enough of you out there saying none of these people are appropriate.

00:22:53.000 We deserve better.

00:22:54.000 We deserve an awakening.

00:22:55.000 We deserve new systems.

00:22:56.000 We deserve a decentralized system.

00:22:58.000 We deserve real democracy, radical change, some respect and reverence from one another for the world.

00:23:04.000 Man, my heart is wide open to you!

00:23:06.000 But the fact is this, no one, no amount of propaganda can ever reframe this, anything other than the end of the era of this type of politics.

00:23:17.000 ...started off as strong as he was, the strongest point for him was at the very beginning of the debate, and then over the course of the night he became less coherent and more visibly flustered.

00:23:28.000 I don't think either of these campaigns, either of these candidates is going to feel like this was a shining moment for them.

00:23:34.000 But I think that first initial impression... Okay, Rachel, what should we do about the vaccine?

00:23:39.000 Should we take him or not?

00:23:40.000 Does the vaccine stop?

00:23:42.000 When will the bullshit stop?

00:23:44.000 Here's Gavin Newsom, a man with a fine head of hair and who had some pretty good parties during the pandemic era, grinning as he recognises the opportunity may be about to come his way.

00:23:55.000 Will it be Gavin Newsom, or will it be Michelle Obama?

00:23:59.000 You know how the Democrat Party but also the Republican Party, they love a dynasty, they love another surname, don't they?

00:24:05.000 They like to hear Bush, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush.

00:24:09.000 Is it going to be the Pets?

00:24:12.000 Has Joe Biden got a cat somewhere?

00:24:14.000 Has Michelle Obama got anything?

00:24:18.000 To offer us that we don't know about, let's have a look at Gavin Newsom grinning from ear to ear.

00:24:24.000 Are you going to be the next Democratic nominee?

00:24:26.000 No, our nominee is Joe Biden.

00:24:28.000 I'm looking forward to voting for him in November.

00:24:30.000 He's going to be our nominee.

00:24:32.000 Because you know that everyone are talking about you as a possible nominee now.

00:24:36.000 Are you enjoying it?

00:24:37.000 We're going up here?

00:24:41.000 It might as well be Bradley Cooper at this point, because remember, getting a younger, better-looking person to fulfil the role will not change the system, and the system will never appoint anybody that won't uphold its message, that won't fulfil its agenda, and its agenda, you know already, corporatism, globalism, War, deception, tyranny, citizen management, the incremental creep of government authoritarianism into your life, that's what created this mess.

00:25:09.000 Anything other than a deep mea culpa should lead to a devastating loss for the Democrats in November.

00:25:16.000 And given that they are participants in a two-party system, and given that they were happy to exclude RFK, that's exactly the result that they deserve.

00:25:24.000 Why don't we give a few moments over to Bobby Kennedy, who was simultaneously streaming In spite of being excluded from that debate, simply because it probably suited both parties and both candidates.

00:25:35.000 Let me know in the chat why you think he was excluded.

00:25:37.000 There was a poll taken that asked young people under 35 in this country, are you proud of the United States?

00:25:43.000 85% said yes.

00:25:45.000 The same poll taken five months ago, 18% said yes.

00:25:48.000 So somehow during the administration of these two presidents, An entire generation of Americans has lost pride in our country and a hope in their own futures.

00:26:04.000 And they feel that way because they see what's happening.

00:26:07.000 They can't get into a home.

00:26:08.000 The first generation in history in America that is going to live worse lives than their parents.

00:26:14.000 They see the vitriol that you saw here, the division, the polarization that makes them disgusted with politics.

00:26:21.000 They're seeing the corrupt merger of state and corporate power that has transformed our agencies from the CIA, the health agencies, the environmental agencies, into sock puppets.

00:26:34.000 The industries they're supposed to regulate.

00:26:37.000 They're seeing the destruction of our soils, the destruction of our air and water.

00:26:42.000 They're watching this happen and the politicians do nothing about it except for hate on each other.

00:26:48.000 If you want More of the same.

00:26:52.000 You should vote for President Biden, President Trump.

00:26:55.000 You know what's going to happen.

00:26:56.000 You know that.

00:26:57.000 They're going to give you four more years of the same stuff.

00:27:03.000 If you want things to completely change, you're going to support me.

00:27:09.000 Because I'm going to change everything.

00:27:12.000 I don't know.

00:27:13.000 Maybe this is the moment for you to consider something as radical as an independent candidate.

00:27:18.000 Maybe this is the moment where you've decided that it has to be Donald Trump.

00:27:22.000 Why don't you let us know?

00:27:24.000 Myself, I'm praying.

00:27:26.000 I'm praying for an intervention.

00:27:27.000 That's why I'm very excited that straight after this we are going to be speaking to Jonathan Rumi, JC, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, in the hit show The Chosen.

00:27:37.000 Please stay with us for that.

00:27:40.000 It should be a fantastic conversation.

00:27:41.000 I know it is, in fact, because it was available on Locals for the last week.

00:27:45.000 Consider becoming a member there where you can join us for lots of additional abundant contact as we explore new solutions together.

00:27:55.000 Before we get into our conversation with Jonathan Rumi, aka Jesus Christ, here's a quick message from one of our partners.

00:28:02.000 Debt can bring sleepless nights.

00:28:04.000 Insanely high interest credit card loans and repayments are very difficult to make.

00:28:10.000 Almost impossible.

00:28:11.000 There is a way out though.

00:28:12.000 There is a way to be free from the debt trap.

00:28:14.000 You've heard me talk about this trap.

00:28:16.000 Now here's a solution.

00:28:17.000 The organization that used to be known as Pivotal Debt Solutions are now known as Zero Debt USA and they have an aggressive Whoa, new strategy to end debt faster.

00:28:26.000 Zero Debt USA cut or eliminate interest.

00:28:29.000 They help you owe less and get rid of all of the letters, threatening phone calls, all that stuff.

00:28:34.000 They find solutions to end your debt permanently.

00:28:36.000 Talk to Zero Debt USA for free to find out how fast they can help you get out of debt and into some sensible financial management.

00:28:45.000 Visit zapmydebt.com, that's zapmydebt.com, zapmydebt.com.

00:28:51.000 Thank you.

00:28:52.000 Takes hours to groom the chest hair.

00:28:54.000 This is where all the time goes, Jonathan.

00:28:59.000 Various apotropaic medallions to keep the Lord close, but then substantial time combing body hair.

00:29:10.000 Making sure it doesn't get tangled up.

00:29:12.000 See, I don't have as much to worry about, so I'm not as fortunate in my masculinity's development as you are, I guess.

00:29:22.000 Look at the two of us, Jonathan, why we could be body doubles.

00:29:29.000 Maybe it's time for me to be your body double now.

00:29:32.000 How about let's flip it around rather.

00:29:35.000 I'm coming there.

00:29:36.000 The minute I get to that set on Chosen, I'm standing in because that was like how we met.

00:29:41.000 People may not know this because you will know Jonathan as our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

00:29:47.000 He portrays Jesus He doesn't play Jesus!

00:29:50.000 It's not a game!

00:29:51.000 He portrays Jesus in The Chosen.

00:29:54.000 But we met on Ballers where Jonathan would be like a stand-in.

00:29:59.000 Jonathan's been an actor for a long time, I figure, but would stand in.

00:30:02.000 But we would always chat, wouldn't we?

00:30:03.000 I'd often not take advantage of the fact that there was a stand-in because I'd be chatting with Jonathan and in the end it turns out that you probably could have played the part in Ballers.

00:30:15.000 You know, I don't know if you know this, but when the first season that I came on to stand in for you, it was season four, and the DP for that season, Director of Photography, the cameraman, the head of the camera department, for those who don't know what DP is, Apparently his requirements were that all the stand-ins are off book with the actors' lines whom they're standing in for, or as best as they can be off book.

00:30:43.000 So we show up on the day, they're like, here, learn this.

00:30:46.000 I'm like, I'm sorry, what?

00:30:48.000 They're like, yeah, yeah, this is what, you know, The guy's name, whatever it is, I can't remember.

00:30:54.000 This is what he expects and just so you can literally just give as much of the performance before the actual performance as possible.

00:31:02.000 And I thought to myself, wow, okay, that's a lot.

00:31:06.000 And then to do that for you, When you're talking a mile a minute, and there's like paragraphs, I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:31:16.000 So at the end, I ended up, I think one of the things that got me the job for season five, not just the fact that you were coming back, was that I started doing the scenes as you.

00:31:30.000 Because I do impressions and stuff like this.

00:31:32.000 So I started talking like this, you know, pitched up my accent a little bit more and, you know, started moving around a bit and talking quite fast and going this way and moving that and just trying stuff on the fly, all that.

00:31:46.000 I remember thinking that that impression was a hate crime.

00:31:50.000 That's what I remember thinking.

00:31:52.000 That's a hate crime happening right there.

00:31:54.000 And then when you eventually became Jesus, I was extremely confused.

00:32:04.000 Yeah, those are the good old days.

00:32:07.000 That was, what, seven years ago.

00:32:09.000 Seven years ago.

00:32:11.000 Pretty incredible, Jonathan.

00:32:12.000 And what's so amazing for me and gratifying was when we obviously stayed in touch, we were friends, we were hanging out and stuff, and you said, I'm doing this thing, it's this crowdfunded show, it's called The Chosen, it's about the disciples, it's Angel Studios.

00:32:28.000 Oh, who are you playing?

00:32:31.000 I'm going to be actual God come to earth in human form.

00:32:35.000 Well, good luck playing that because I've seen how you play me and it was very cruel.

00:32:40.000 If you do to Jesus what you did to me, you're going to be in a lot of trouble.

00:32:48.000 Yeah, well luckily I got away with it.

00:32:51.000 But then it became like a massive global phenomenon, like, you know, like The Chosen has galvanized the Christian community like no other rendering of the Gospels.

00:32:51.000 They bought it.

00:33:04.000 You know, I think back in my lifetime there's Robert Powell as Jesus, there's Willem Dafoe as Jesus, there's of course our man from The Temptation of Christ, I'm blanking on his name.

00:33:17.000 Yeah, Jim Caviezel.

00:33:18.000 The passion, yeah.

00:33:19.000 Jim Caviezel, he's an amazing Jesus.

00:33:21.000 He bears that burden a lot.

00:33:24.000 Like when you hear Jim Caviezel talking about times on set, on Temptation, it sounds a lot like he's coming quite close to saying, making that film was as hard as being Jesus.

00:33:34.000 It sounds like he's getting perilously close to making that claim.

00:33:38.000 When you get struck by lightning, it's kind of hard to refute.

00:33:43.000 And, you know, open heart surgery and dislocating your shoulder and accidentally actually getting scourged.

00:33:50.000 He did get a scourging!

00:33:52.000 Yeah, that's some good method acting.

00:33:55.000 And also the cross dropped on Jim Caviezel.

00:33:57.000 I've watched it, I've watched it.

00:33:58.000 But yeah, listen, I think you're my favourite Jesus.

00:34:01.000 Of course we're going to talk about The Chosen, we're going to talk about the app HALO, and we're going to be talking about your documentary, Jonathan and Jesus, because there is a sort of a complexity to playing our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, that many actors won't have.

00:34:14.000 I was thinking, and when we chatted the other day, I said it's like, you know, Christian Bale is not like a member of a Religion called Batmanism, but you are a Christian, so you can't ever put down the role.

00:34:29.000 And I feel like it must come with some, because the, in fact, even from a theological perspective, the idea that Christ is fully human and fully God is a very sort of complicated, hard idea.

00:34:41.000 I remember when someone recently said to me, That in the agony in the garden, Jesus isn't sort of pretending, like, oh no, this is bad, but I know I'm God, so I'm basically going to be fine.

00:34:54.000 He is sweating blood, he is terrified, fully the full human experience of dread and terror.

00:35:01.000 It's almost an impossible Acting job, I would have thought.

00:35:08.000 Almost impossible to get the humanity, to get the warmth, to get the divinity, the full masculinity and maleness.

00:35:16.000 And then also, this is God.

00:35:19.000 But you actually, like, you know, because I saw some of Jonathan and Jesus, when you're like, you know, people saying that when they pray, they see your face, because I'm friends with you.

00:35:27.000 I'm like, I'm not doing that.

00:35:29.000 I'm I'm not praying to Jonathan!

00:35:31.000 But I do have to, because you've done such a good... For a moment!

00:35:35.000 No!

00:35:36.000 He's getting in there!

00:35:38.000 Because you have done such a good job of playing Jesus, portraying Jesus, I have got, like, you know, I do sometimes when I'm going, Jesus, I need you, Lord, I'm like, oh no, there's Jonathan sneaking in there with a sarcastic English accent!

00:35:52.000 I'd love to know how you, as a Christian, Draw those lines and what kind of challenges and experiences you're having in this extraordinary place.

00:36:06.000 Well, you know, one of the things I think as humans that we need, especially if we have a relationship with our Creator, if we desire a relationship with our Creator, it's only human for us to want to put a face to who that is.

00:36:22.000 And so, what do we have?

00:36:24.000 We have the relegations of culture and, you know, Paintings and imagery and since man could create and since Jesus, you know, lived, people have been trying to depict our Lord and Savior because that gives us an opportunity to kind of, you know,

00:36:46.000 reference what it is and who it is that we're putting our belief system into.

00:36:51.000 So I think we need to have a face, and in the age of film and television and social media and popular culture, when you have, and for you and I, I think it was the same generation, Robert Powell was that for the two of us, where even now you still see images of Robert Powell's face as Jesus Christ in modern culture, in churches.

00:37:14.000 I was in We were promoting season four in Mexico earlier this year and I was in a church in rural Mexico and I went in and there's a depiction of this scene with a particular religious person like a priest or something from the region or it was a saint and he's in this painting with Jesus.

00:37:39.000 And the image they used for Jesus's face is Robert Powell, you know?

00:37:43.000 And so I think it's the more saturated we are with certain kinds of images, whether it be my face, whether it be Jim Caviezel's face, whether it be Robert Powell's face, inevitably your mind just, I think, naturally wants to go there because you're like, oh no, no, he was a person and I know this person portraying this divinity and his humanity all at once.

00:38:05.000 And so it just kind of pops in there.

00:38:07.000 It's actually happened to my sister.

00:38:09.000 My sister said she was praying once and, you know, in church and all of a sudden my face popped into her prayers.

00:38:17.000 She's like, no, no, get out of there!

00:38:18.000 Get out of there!

00:38:19.000 And I kind of freaked out for a second.

00:38:22.000 So, and for me, it's obviously, I'm not thinking of myself, but, you know, if it's not Robert Powell, I get images of Renaissance paintings that come into my head, you know, or something by Karl Bloch will just pop into my head.

00:38:34.000 He's one of my favorite artists who depicted Christ.

00:38:37.000 And so, I want to have somebody to kind of think of, to imagine, because he's a real person.

00:38:43.000 Jesus is a real person.

00:38:44.000 He continues to be a real person.

00:38:47.000 But when you don't have the face of that person, you want to put the face on him, if that makes sense.

00:38:54.000 Yeah, the idea that there is a definitive image of Christ that is not a rendering or an approximation or a portrayal, but the same way as you are you and I am me, is actual Jesus.

00:39:07.000 That's the kind of reality that I sometimes stumble over.

00:39:14.000 When it talks about the apostles encountering Christ During the Easter, during the first Easter, and not recognising him.

00:39:27.000 I think, I wonder about that, you know?

00:39:29.000 I wonder, like, what is the Jesus that they're meeting that they don't recognise the person they were with, like, a few days, or a week, or whatever it is, before?

00:39:40.000 You know, like, what is that?

00:39:42.000 You know, what is that telling us?

00:39:44.000 I also wonder, lately, and this perhaps says more about my narcissism than anything else, and it was perhaps a technique to try and avoid having you in my head, I was thinking, in a way, I wonder if seeing the perfect version of myself, if I'm inviting Christ to be in, I'm inviting Christ to be in myself, seeing an External yet internal Christ, that is me.

00:40:08.000 Me perfect.

00:40:10.000 If it's like in Galatians, I die on the cross that he can be reborn in me.

00:40:16.000 Imagining myself being overtaken and not being Russell with all of his flaws and hypocrisies and contradictions, frailties and longings.

00:40:25.000 And instead, like, oh my God, there is a perfect version of yourself.

00:40:29.000 And that is the Christ.

00:40:30.000 I'm talking in sort of slightly abstract terms there.

00:40:34.000 So you never allow yourself to be Jesus in your own mind, first of all, and also, except I suppose when you're playing him, which must be weird, which must be weird, and then, but like, I wonder if you could talk a bit about what you think that is when the apostles don't recognise him, and also about how, when you're actually being Jesus, like in a scene, when you're live in a scene, like, what you're actually doing, how you're tackling that idea.

00:41:04.000 Yeah, well I know you recently had Jeff Havens on, who's a brilliant theologian, and so he could probably answer the detailed theological aspects of the heavenly reality of Jesus' body post-resurrection ever so more than I could.

00:41:22.000 But for me, because eventually we're going to get to the resurrection in the series, there's been no secret about that.

00:41:30.000 I think we'll even get up to the ascension and even beyond.

00:41:34.000 Maybe the beginning of the Acts, I'm not quite sure.

00:41:37.000 But for me, I think, as I contemplate the idea of what might that look like, would they, I mean, does that mean somebody else is going to play Jesus?

00:41:47.000 And then when the veil is lifted from their eyes, then it's me or no?

00:41:51.000 Or is it just, I think, narratively, what makes sense to me is that I think it could be two things.

00:42:00.000 One thing it could be is that Because now he is not nearly fully human in this earth post-resurrection.

00:42:08.000 He has access to the heavenly dimension.

00:42:11.000 He can go through walls.

00:42:13.000 He can appear and disappear.

00:42:15.000 What does that do to a person?

00:42:17.000 How does that alter their reality?

00:42:21.000 And is it for the sake of of having this episode play out on the road to Emmaus where these disciples don't recognize him and you know he comes up to him and he says, what are you guys talking about?

00:42:33.000 And they're like, are you the only guy in Jerusalem that didn't know what happened these last several days?

00:42:39.000 Jesus of Nazareth, the guy we thought was going to be the Messiah was nailed to a cross and he's dead and like now it's over and we're it's the movement's done and he's like he lets them talk for a bit and and then Basically, when they get to sitting down and having a meal, it says their eyes are opened in the sharing of the meal, in the breaking of the bread, which kind of then

00:43:06.000 As a Catholic, connects to the whole mystery and the miracle of the Eucharist, and the Eucharist as a new manna, which was the fulfillment of the Old Testament, Exodus, which led to the Passover.

00:43:21.000 So there's so much at play, I think, in that story, and in the breaking of the bread is when their eyes are opened, and then he disappears.

00:43:32.000 And it's like, wait, hold on a second.

00:43:34.000 Like, what does that mean?

00:43:35.000 What, you know?

00:43:36.000 So, to simply answer the question, I think the details of that are inherent to the mystery of this heavenly reality that he is now on Earth and simultaneously able to leave reality at will, you know, prior to his ascension.

00:44:00.000 That's the first question.

00:44:01.000 That's cool, that's cool though, and there's quite a lot I want to say.

00:44:04.000 Like that it is, that meeting on the road to, I guess you're saying Emmaus, not Damascus.

00:44:14.000 So Saul, I believe it was Saul, was on the road to Damascus and Emmaus was them leaving Jerusalem.

00:44:24.000 Cheers Jonathan, thanks for clarifying.

00:44:26.000 So when they're having that, when he breaks bread, they see that as, oh my god, the Last Supper, the Eucharist, this is it!

00:44:34.000 It kind of glitches together those two realities, the spiritual and material world combined for them in that moment.

00:44:42.000 And that's interesting because it is so sort of supernaturally beautiful and it makes me wonder about further encounters with Christ where it's more, you know, like in Thomas, where it's more about digging around in the wounds and like looking at it from a kind of a very gory, anatomical, bodily perspective.

00:45:02.000 Now it's interesting, it's interesting that during that 40 day, or whatever it was, period, where there are the encounters with up to 500 witnesses of the risen Christ, That they are sort of varying.

00:45:16.000 That first one being really supernatural and mysterious and it gave me a weird feeling actually when you were describing it and that he disappears at the breaking of the bread and that that is a reiteration of the last supper.

00:45:24.000 I loved that description, you did that so well.

00:45:27.000 But like some of the subsequent encounters right up to what?

00:45:31.000 Right up to like Pentecost, right up to Saul's conversion or whatever.

00:45:35.000 They vary don't they?

00:45:37.000 They're varying these encounters with the risen Christ.

00:45:42.000 Yeah, I mean, going back to this heavenly dimension where he's just walking through walls and appearing in a room at will and then disappearing, it's like, why?

00:45:51.000 how, what is, like, why, like, how does that happen? And, and,

00:45:56.000 you know, I, I think all of it led to the building of this movement, the building of their individual faiths, and

00:46:06.000 ultimately, the building of the group's faith, so that he became

00:46:11.000 undeniable. So that to the point where, you know, When you get up to as far as Constantine, before Constantine legalized Christianity for the Roman Empire, you know, Christians were being used as Roman candles, like human torches in games and being set on fire because it was, there were just, it was such, it was such

00:46:35.000 This abstract concept to the rest of the modern world at the time that this little movement from this backwater town of Nazareth that kind of generated this monstrous shift in the perception of reality and what it means to be human and what is important and how we are to treat each other just exploded because it had to.

00:47:02.000 The spirit was within it from the very beginning, and I think all of the moments throughout Jesus's life, post-resurrection, through after his ascension, through the development of the early church in Acts with Paul, all of it was meant to strengthen and solidify This new reality for these people that were going to be the champions of the faith, that would give their lives for this thing that they believed, that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and everything he did met and fulfilled the requirements of the messianic prophecies of the Old Testament.

00:47:43.000 You're practicing Catholic, you pray a lot, you have a tabernacle, you love the Lord, you're in continual discourse with the living Jesus Christ and suddenly you get the opportunity to be Jesus and you actually are having to in this sort of incredible cultural artifact that perhaps more than anything since certainly the passion of the Christ has created cultural and media interest in Christianity in

00:48:07.000 a new way. It's reaching more people than would have been imaginable. It's the first, you

00:48:12.000 know, almost internet age media item or artifact around Christianity. And you're in the middle

00:48:18.000 of this as a person that prays, who has a dialogue with Jesus. How do you conflate and

00:48:23.000 conduct a relationship with Christ while you're, you know, like, you know, presumably after work,

00:48:29.000 you're praying?

00:48:30.000 At work, you're in a trailer and you're like, oh, how do I do this scene?

00:48:33.000 How much variety?

00:48:34.000 Like, you know, how many different takes?

00:48:36.000 If you're doing a, you know, say something, let's say from seasons you've already shot and that have already been aired, like if you're doing like a sermon on the mount or whatever, are you trying it in a variety of ways?

00:48:46.000 And in your mind, are you in a kind of continual state of prayer?

00:48:50.000 I've heard you say before that it's increased your intimacy with Jesus, but I want to know what that is like.

00:48:57.000 Because again, on one level, I'm just talking to an actor.

00:49:01.000 Like when we've had Matthew McConaughey on, I'm not like, oh in Estella, do you think you're actually that bloke?

00:49:08.000 I'm not doing that because it's not a religion even though it seems like an attempt to try

00:49:13.000 and create one in the Stella sometimes Christopher Nolan's plainly on that tip.

00:49:16.000 But like, yeah so I wonder man what it's like to, does it blur lines?

00:49:24.000 Well I would have to say that a lot of the increased methods of my own personal practice

00:49:35.000 and prayer life have been a direct result of spending more time with Jesus as a character

00:49:41.000 in a TV show whom I'm playing, whom I'm portraying.

00:49:46.000 I think a lot of those things might not have arrived in my life had I not been forced to kind of, you know, spend, well right now it's been six years of my life on this show so far.

00:50:03.000 I think this has kind of been something that God's been preparing me for.

00:50:10.000 For a very, very long time.

00:50:12.000 I remember seeing Jesus of Nazareth with Robert Powell as a kid, as like an 11-year-old kid, and being so impacted by the way of the cross, by the path he took to his crucifixion, that after The show was over.

00:50:31.000 I went outside in my own backyard, built the life-size cross, and reenacted the Passion of the Christ myself as an 11-year-old kid.

00:50:41.000 Who does that?

00:50:42.000 And I literally hammered the nails, and I painted the blood, and I made a crown of thorns, and I plopped it up against my garage, and I just reenacted the crucifixion.

00:50:53.000 And so I think it's something that has been in the back of my mind clearly for a very long time.

00:50:59.000 So it's hard not to kind of look at this as some sort of manifest destiny that God has a plan in which I can now bring, for this very specific time and age, The precepts and the concepts of the faith and the necessity and the importance of having a relationship with Christ and having the spirituality to an audience that I think, on a global scale, desperately needs something to anchor themselves into.

00:51:33.000 And for me, like, you know, playing him, My preparation begins with prayer.

00:51:43.000 It begins with mass and confession and Eucharist and kind of spiritually cleaning myself out so that I can be a greater, a cleaner sort of a mirror, if you will.

00:51:56.000 It's like wiping a dirty mirror and just say, okay, God, you reflect Off of me the things that you want the world to see, the qualities that you want people to feel from Jesus as portrayed in the show.

00:52:08.000 And just let me be kind of like a mirror to what you want for people to experience.

00:52:16.000 And the things that people have been experiencing are profound.

00:52:19.000 And I can take no credit for them.

00:52:21.000 I just kind of show up as a vessel.

00:52:24.000 And I say the lines, and I do enough of my own meditation and prayer prior to it.

00:52:30.000 I think really hard about these particular scenes, and I wonder what Jesus went through, and if I'm kind of suffering in my personal life, will I try to bring that suffering and offer up that suffering through the art to Christ in union with His suffering?

00:52:48.000 Because when we offer our own sufferings up, That's when God can take them and sanctify them for our good and the good of everyone in heaven and on earth.

00:52:59.000 In a way, what you're doing as an actor is essentially the Christian journey anyway.

00:53:08.000 Like that's what we're all supposed to be doing, except we don't then go on camera and sort of render our experience.

00:53:16.000 But in our lives, We're menna, as you say, offer up our suffering.

00:53:21.000 We're menna, cleanse that, be available for God, be available for Him, rather than allowing my desires and my self-centred.

00:53:32.000 When I self-deify, when I become, once again, the centre Of my own life, I'm in trouble.

00:53:38.000 I had an amazing kind of, like, when you were talking about, like, you know, your own suffering, I was like, ah, Jonathan's a person that's now, like, if you ever lose it at a service station or in an airport, you can never again go, I told you, I ain't sitting in that seat!

00:53:51.000 What the hell?

00:53:55.000 Like, you gotta be clean now, man.

00:53:58.000 Yeah, it's a really convenient accountability partner playing Jesus on the screen.

00:54:04.000 But, you know, I gave a commencement speech at Catholic University of America a few weeks ago.

00:54:09.000 Yeah, I watched it.

00:54:10.000 It was good.

00:54:11.000 Thank you.

00:54:12.000 And one of the things that I said, and I meant it, was that you don't have to play Jesus on TV to be Jesus to the world.

00:54:19.000 And what I was trying to communicate to the kids, it's like, just because I'm playing Jesus doesn't mean you can't do what I do in your own life, in your own way.

00:54:27.000 Whatever it is, you know, even as a student, you know, even as a graduating student who might not have a job, but you're still interacting with the world.

00:54:34.000 You're still important in the world.

00:54:37.000 Your soul still has purpose and meaning, and as they find their way to the path that God wants for them, ultimately, hopefully, to glorify Him in the gifts that He'd given them, we all have to be Christ to everyone we meet.

00:54:57.000 And I think when we are using our gifts, I mean, just like you're using your gifts now as a proponent of speech and, you know, conscious thought and awareness and awakenedness.

00:55:14.000 All of that, as you are on your journey, can be used to glorify God in some way.

00:55:21.000 And as you do that, what He does with your life becomes incomprehensible.

00:55:27.000 Seven years ago, when I was working with you, I was dead broke, man.

00:55:32.000 That job, for me, as a stand-in, was one of the lifelines that kept me from completely just drowning in financial misery.

00:55:45.000 It was prior to my deeper conversion, which was about a year later.

00:55:52.000 Where I surrendered everything that I had and didn't have.

00:55:56.000 I was in a really bad state, and you've seen my documentary, so you kind of know what that's about.

00:56:03.000 But I essentially had to let go of the reins of the control of my life, of trying to think that I was responsible for everything, that I could do it all, that I knew better than God knew about what my life should look like, about what my career should look like.

00:56:17.000 And the minute I released it, And truly and honestly and totally and wholly gave it away to him, everything changed.

00:56:27.000 Everything changed that very day.

00:56:29.000 Now, that doesn't happen maybe with everybody on that day.

00:56:32.000 It was a very dramatic thing that happened for me.

00:56:36.000 And, you know, it took a little bit of time.

00:56:40.000 It was about three months after that, before I got cast in The Chosen.

00:56:44.000 But I knew in that moment that this answered prayer was the beginning of the next chapter, the next phase of my life.

00:56:53.000 And my life has never been the same since.

00:56:56.000 And it's their opportunity for everybody in their lives.

00:57:00.000 If they're stuck or they're suffering or they feel like they just don't know what more they can do.

00:57:06.000 You got to give it away.

00:57:07.000 You got to give it up and surrender it all.

00:57:10.000 I was struck.

00:57:11.000 By the proclamation, Jonathan, I was doing my rosary, listening to a voice that I've heard before render sarcastic impressions of myself, saying... Let me hear what that voice sounded like.

00:57:27.000 What did that voice sound like?

00:57:32.000 You want to talk about hate crimes, okay?

00:57:35.000 In progress.

00:57:36.000 That's blasphemy!

00:57:37.000 I mean, that's a whole bundle right there!

00:57:39.000 Blasphemy!

00:57:40.000 Hate crime!

00:57:41.000 International crime!

00:57:44.000 When you say, like today in the proclamation, I was struck by, you know, cause thinners.

00:57:50.000 A community, this is what Christianity is for.

00:57:54.000 It's for the fallen.

00:57:55.000 And like I was thinking, the fallen and for the broken, and I was thinking about what you just said then about your own, like the letting go of the reins and the surrender that you just described, and how that, how does that relate to the fundamental Christian promise of surrender.

00:58:11.000 And was it really, are you describing despair?

00:58:14.000 You know, when you made that prayer, was it despair?

00:58:18.000 Was it rage?

00:58:20.000 What was it that you were feeling, Jonathan?

00:58:23.000 There was despair about my circumstances, but the prayer itself essentially was that God, I've been doing this thing for somebody who professed to be a man of faith.

00:58:39.000 I needed to now get on my knees and pray and have a real heart to heart conversation and say, God, you brought me to Los Angeles for the last eight years.

00:58:50.000 I've gotten little bits and pieces.

00:58:52.000 I've barely been able to stay afloat to keep myself fed.

00:58:56.000 And in fact, that day I was out of food.

00:58:59.000 Like I had enough food for that day.

00:59:02.000 I was negative in my bank account.

00:59:06.000 I was thousands of dollars in debt and I hadn't worked.

00:59:10.000 I was doing ride share.

00:59:11.000 I was delivering groceries.

00:59:13.000 I was painting houses.

00:59:14.000 All of a sudden, all of the side gigs, they stopped for like two weeks.

00:59:19.000 Like I couldn't get arrested for like just a side job.

00:59:24.000 And I started to panic.

00:59:27.000 And I said, my last resort was literally getting on my knees and praying.

00:59:32.000 I'm like, God, you brought me here.

00:59:35.000 You brought me here with these gifts you've given me, but I've tried to do this.

00:59:39.000 Like, I thought I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing.

00:59:41.000 I thought the Lord helps those who help themselves.

00:59:44.000 Well, it turns out Ben Franklin said that.

00:59:45.000 That's not in the gospels.

00:59:46.000 That's not biblical.

00:59:50.000 So what I realize is, like, the Lord helps those who rely on him.

00:59:53.000 And so I said, Matthew 28, come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

01:00:00.000 Take my yoke upon you.

01:00:02.000 My burden is easy and my yoke is light.

01:00:04.000 I'm paraphrasing.

01:00:06.000 And so I said, here, take mine because I don't know what you want from me anymore.

01:00:12.000 So I'm going to take all this stress and all of this burden and all this fear and anxiety, and I'm going to give to you.

01:00:17.000 It's not my problem because you're true to your word.

01:00:20.000 I trust you.

01:00:21.000 I believe everything you say.

01:00:22.000 I believe everything you say is true.

01:00:24.000 I believe you are who you say you are.

01:00:26.000 And you've never lied.

01:00:28.000 And so you say, come to me.

01:00:31.000 I'm coming to you.

01:00:32.000 Take my burdens.

01:00:33.000 They're yours now, not mine.

01:00:35.000 And I literally felt this weight just lift off of me.

01:00:39.000 And I'm like, wow.

01:00:41.000 All right.

01:00:42.000 It's not my problem.

01:00:43.000 I had 20 bucks left.

01:00:44.000 I spent it on food, like I went out for a brunch or something.

01:00:47.000 And I'm like, oh, this should be interesting.

01:00:49.000 I wonder what's going to happen now.

01:00:52.000 And I came home.

01:00:55.000 And there were four checks in the mail waiting for me from these disparate sources.

01:01:02.000 Like, it didn't make sense.

01:01:03.000 Like, one of them was from a company that hadn't paid me residuals for an animation job I did in, like, four years or something.

01:01:09.000 Like, oh, we forgot to pay you!

01:01:11.000 Here's $800!

01:01:11.000 And at the end of this I took these checks, I went up to my apartment, I turned on my phone, I pressed record on my video function, and I recorded myself opening them.

01:01:25.000 I recorded myself opening them because I was like, this isn't real.

01:01:29.000 For posterity, so that I know I'm not hallucinating, I gotta have a document of this somehow.

01:01:35.000 And I opened the checks, and each check was bigger than the one before.

01:01:38.000 And at the end of that, I had $1,100 when in the morning I was negative $80 and so that $1,100 may as well have been a million dollars but more than that it was an answered prayer and it was proof when I cried at my most desperate time and truly just surrendered everything wholly and completely and I can't stress that enough that

01:02:04.000 You have to do it and you say it and you mean it because then you feel different once you've done that.

01:02:09.000 Once you've completely surrendered and you walk away with like, it's not on me, man.

01:02:15.000 It's not my responsibility.

01:02:17.000 You feel the weight shift.

01:02:19.000 And that's when I knew, okay, it's going to be different.

01:02:22.000 I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but it doesn't matter because he's got me because he said he would.

01:02:27.000 And he did that very day.

01:02:29.000 And so when that happened, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be okay.

01:02:35.000 I'm going to be fine.

01:02:36.000 A guy that I had worked with over the previous four years, shooting these little short films for his church's Easter service, said, hey, we're doing four episodes of this crowdfunded TV show.

01:02:51.000 It's probably not going to go anywhere, but you'll get a few episodes of work.

01:02:55.000 I'm like, yeah, I'm in for whatever, man.

01:02:58.000 Like, whatever.

01:03:00.000 And here we are in the middle of filming season five, 200 million eyeballs later.

01:03:05.000 And it's just, I mean, it's just every step of this journey from that moment in my life has just been utterly mind-blowing.

01:03:14.000 It's been mind-blowing, man.

01:03:16.000 Yeah, that's a beautiful story of surrender.

01:03:21.000 And transformation.

01:03:24.000 And it's difficult, isn't it, Jonathan, not to make the evaluation based on outcomes, you know?

01:03:31.000 Not like, not to... because that's...

01:03:35.000 The bifurcation that I wrestle with is that if I am living along spiritual lines and surrendered, that I'm not looking for, well you've done this because even your encounter, it's beautiful to hear the removal of the burden, the bondage of self, the removal of that burden is what I pray for, more than all of the various accumulated horrors It's the horror of being an individual, it's the horror of being trapped in self, the imprisonment and incarceration of being your own God and what that does to the spirit.

01:04:12.000 Even if you're open-minded and you're intelligent and you're metaphysically curious, this bondage of like knowing, like I read a Timothy Keller thing yesterday saying, deep down I've been relying on myself.

01:04:26.000 Lord, deep down, even though I believe in you, I've been relying, I've been like, I'm going to do this.

01:04:32.000 And what it sounds like you're describing to me is I'm over that.

01:04:36.000 I'm over it.

01:04:37.000 I'm letting go of that.

01:04:39.000 But I want that.

01:04:41.000 And I felt it.

01:04:42.000 I felt it when I was baptized.

01:04:44.000 I feel it sometimes, but I feel like I'm so continually engaged in various, like the gridlock of materialism and the sort of the combat of material life that when I, it's like I keep being magnetized back into it.

01:05:03.000 Like I don't, I want to be saved and stay saved, you know?

01:05:08.000 I want to be saved and stay saved.

01:05:10.000 Salvation.

01:05:11.000 It's a daily journey, man.

01:05:13.000 You know?

01:05:15.000 That's the thing.

01:05:16.000 It's not that we believe, well, you got to earn your salvation.

01:05:20.000 Salvation is a gift.

01:05:22.000 It's something that's given to you freely.

01:05:22.000 It's grace.

01:05:25.000 But you have to continue to work on any good relationship.

01:05:32.000 Just because, let's say, you and I are friends.

01:05:35.000 If 10 years goes by, we never talk to each other again.

01:05:38.000 We're still friends?

01:05:39.000 I don't know.

01:05:41.000 It takes work.

01:05:46.000 Relationships are work.

01:05:47.000 Relationship with Christ is work.

01:05:49.000 Relationship and dying to yourself is heavy work.

01:05:53.000 Relationship to Jesus and destroying of the, you know, the ego.

01:05:58.000 Destruction of pride.

01:06:00.000 Like, that's probably, I mean, pride is the father of all sins.

01:06:05.000 Because when you possess pride, everything else is born out of that.

01:06:09.000 Everything else is born out of the need to serve the self, right?

01:06:13.000 And so, when you can destroy pride, That's what I mean.

01:06:17.000 You're familiar with that prayer that I think I sent over to you once.

01:06:19.000 It's called the Litany of Humility.

01:06:22.000 It's a meditation on humility.

01:06:24.000 And if you go through that, it's everything that is the antithesis of what society is telling us we should need.

01:06:31.000 Society says, focus on yourself.

01:06:33.000 You are in charge.

01:06:34.000 You are you.

01:06:36.000 You are independent.

01:06:37.000 You are the thing that drives you and your life.

01:06:41.000 Only you matter.

01:06:42.000 And it's like, And Jesus is like, look at that guy.

01:06:46.000 No, focus on that guy.

01:06:47.000 And then you'll get it.

01:06:49.000 The parable that he tells to the young rich man that comes to Jesus.

01:06:56.000 Lord, I've done all these things.

01:06:58.000 I've followed the rules.

01:06:59.000 I've done everything right to follow God.

01:07:03.000 And what must I do to attain the kingdom of heaven?

01:07:06.000 And Jesus says, And he knew he was rich and he knew he... This wasn't a commentary on that having wealth is bad.

01:07:14.000 It was that this particular young man came to him who was wealthy, said, what must I do to attain eternal life?

01:07:21.000 And he says, go and sell everything you have and give the money to the poor and then follow me.

01:07:28.000 And this guy was so attached to his wealth.

01:07:33.000 He was so married To wealth, to his money, to his possessions, to his things, to his materialism.

01:07:42.000 He couldn't.

01:07:43.000 He said, sell everything.

01:07:44.000 Sell it all.

01:07:46.000 Give the money to the poor.

01:07:48.000 And he went away sad because he knows he knew he couldn't do it.

01:07:52.000 He didn't have that strength.

01:07:55.000 And so that's what we're asked to do, whatever it is.

01:07:56.000 If it's not money, if it's lust, if it's position, if it's authority, if it's, you know, whatever it is that is anchoring us, that is keeping us from aspiring to The priority, which is Him, which is God, which is that relationship, and by serving God and serving each other, we serve God.

01:08:19.000 By being of service to each other, to the poor, to the most marginalized, to those who are misunderstood, by being of service to them, that's how we serve Him.

01:08:33.000 Your life changes, but that all starts with the destruction of the ego.

01:08:40.000 It sounds extreme and it shows you how extreme our culture must be.

01:08:46.000 That the principles with which you would abide with him appear extreme in the context of the culture.

01:08:55.000 It shows how far we've gone.

01:08:57.000 Because that is simply, that's the way to live.

01:09:01.000 And it's like, I'm not doing that!

01:09:03.000 It sounds crazy!

01:09:04.000 So it's, you know, in a sense, all this brings me to A challenging idea that it is a fundamentally political act to live a spiritual life, because you are rejecting the world.

01:09:18.000 You are rejecting it.

01:09:19.000 And to reject the world, you know, my problem, my challenge with a lot of ideologies, say, is that sometimes I detect in them That really what you're trying to do is use this ideology to make yourself in alignment with materialistic principles and to make yourself more effective in a material environment.

01:09:44.000 When in fact what we are supposed to, whether that's the 12 steps of various addiction fellowships or Christianity or presumably any faith, if the ultimate goal isn't that like, you know, partly what the elder son in the prodigal son is telling us, That even if what you're living is on the, or even Job, even if on the outside what you're doing appears pretty righteous, if the reason you're doing it is in service of your own ideals, ideals likely derived from the culture, you're independent, da da da da da, isn't sin, isn't abuse, really the traffic and momentum derived

01:10:23.000 from being your own God, your own Jesus, rather than the rejection of that.

01:10:31.000 And I think the reason that probably, like a lot of newly converted people, I'm fascinated by acts, is because Christ is God, and the Gospels is God, and acts is human beings touched by God.

01:10:44.000 And part of the reason that the relief, the release, the surrender to Jesus is so beautiful for me, is because I have been so devoutly my own Christ.

01:10:57.000 And the reason that was so crazy... What was the tipping point for you?

01:11:00.000 Suffering.

01:11:00.000 Breaking.

01:11:01.000 Being broken.

01:11:02.000 Like, ah, this was God.

01:11:04.000 Now you are being shown that your God was, I like being powerful.

01:11:08.000 I like being revered.

01:11:10.000 I liked my little position in the culture of, hey, look at this guy.

01:11:13.000 He's a super hedonistic wild man who's intellectual and promiscuous and sleeping around.

01:11:21.000 Fame and sex Well the things that were my gods, and those things, BOOM!

01:11:28.000 They're the things that turned into hell!

01:11:30.000 Fame!

01:11:31.000 And sex!

01:11:33.000 Where's your god now?

01:11:35.000 Where's your god now?

01:11:39.000 I thought I was pretty clever.

01:11:39.000 Okay, okay!

01:11:41.000 I thought I was so smart.

01:11:42.000 I thought I had it.

01:11:43.000 But, like, I didn't have it.

01:11:45.000 And that's why, sort of, esotericism derived from impersonal universal spirits.

01:11:51.000 I can't get that.

01:11:53.000 I need, like, you, Lord Jesus, you, Help me.

01:11:57.000 I don't know what to do.

01:11:59.000 I'm broken.

01:11:59.000 I'm broken in both senses.

01:12:01.000 I'm broken as in I'm finished, I'm kaput, and I'm broken as in I'm obedient and I'm willing to wear the yoke that my burden may be shared.

01:12:11.000 That's what happened.

01:12:13.000 One of the things that popped into my head to say to you as you were telling me about The struggle, some of the struggle for you is feeling like, feeling this complete surrender.

01:12:26.000 And I would say the thing that came to me was that just be patient with yourself.

01:12:33.000 Because this is something that takes a lot of time.

01:12:38.000 And if you've lived a certain way and you're used to having a certain mindset for decades, Or your reality was one way for years and years and years.

01:12:50.000 And you've seen something that says, no, wait, there's, you pull back the veil and you're like, wait a second there.

01:12:55.000 This is life?

01:12:56.000 This is real life?

01:12:58.000 How do I get more of that?

01:13:01.000 You've taken the steps to get there.

01:13:06.000 And I think it's going to take some time and continued devout prayer And meditation and just offering yourself up every day you wake up and just asking for that surrender, asking for that burden to be lifted, asking for, you know, there's a prayer like, I believe Lord, help my unbelief.

01:13:33.000 So it's like even as believers, we still register doubt.

01:13:36.000 We still suffer doubt.

01:13:37.000 We still deal with trials.

01:13:38.000 We still deal with tribulations.

01:13:40.000 We're not exempt.

01:13:41.000 Jesus himself was not spared from death and tribulations and the misery of humanity.

01:13:46.000 He experienced that along with us so that we now know we have an ally in our own sufferings and somebody that can do more with our sufferings than we can.

01:14:00.000 Ask, keep asking, keep asking him to show you how to continue to put that with which you are struggling on the altar.

01:14:12.000 to help lift it, to help take it off your shoulders.

01:14:15.000 You're so tender and you're so beautiful.

01:14:17.000 And part of what I like about your Jesus versus some of the other culture Jesus is, in a kind of Jesus Royal Rumble showdown, is like, like if Robert Powell has that kind of like mystical, ooh, Caviezel, brooding, sexy.

01:14:36.000 You have tender, warm Jesus.

01:14:39.000 You know, like for all of the aspects of the Christ, even how Christ plays out in culture, you know, do you need the healing Christ?

01:14:46.000 Do you need the teacher Christ?

01:14:47.000 Of course, we all need the Redeemer.

01:14:49.000 Mate, we have to do, I have to go, but I wish we could do this every week, if not every day.

01:14:55.000 Can I ask some, like, chosen, some chosen questions, quick-fire chosen questions?

01:15:00.000 Sure.

01:15:01.000 One, what is your favorite season that you've made so far?

01:15:07.000 This season so far.

01:15:09.000 You talk about the things that we've seen in the tender heart of Jesus and the loving Jesus and we see a few different colors from Jesus in season five and you may change your mind.

01:15:21.000 What is your favorite scene that you're in from The Chosen?

01:15:28.000 Oh, you know, every moment, every scene has, there's a few scenes.

01:15:33.000 I couldn't pick one, but some of the stuff that we've done in season five has been my favorite.

01:15:39.000 I think it's going to be on another level.

01:15:42.000 Because everything's intensifying, so you like the intensity.

01:15:45.000 Yeah, we're in holy week for season five.

01:15:48.000 Yeah, yeah, I'm waiting, baby.

01:15:49.000 You're waiting for summer season four.

01:15:52.000 What about, who's your favorite apostle?

01:15:59.000 I'll tell you who is not my favorite apostle and it's Little James.

01:16:03.000 I want to go on record that Little James is not my favorite apostle.

01:16:08.000 Good.

01:16:10.000 Have you got a favorite moment with Dallas?

01:16:14.000 Played by Jordan Ross.

01:16:17.000 Favorite moment with Dallas.

01:16:17.000 You know, I think the end of season, the first episode in season one, where Jesus meets Mary Magdalene in a bar.

01:16:29.000 Sounds like the beginnings of a great joke, but it's probably the moment that hooks everybody into the series.

01:16:36.000 Yeah.

01:16:37.000 And when we prepared for that scene, myself and Liz Tabish, who plays Mary Magdalene in Dallas, who directs us and created the show, when we were prepping for that scene, We talked about it at length and there was this bond that was created in that moment because we knew there was something really special about this scene and this episode.

01:17:01.000 And I think ultimately we knew this show had something that we'd never seen before.

01:17:06.000 And, uh, and I'd say that that's probably the moment that sticks out with me the most because it was the beginning and we didn't know where we were going and where it was going to go and we had no money.

01:17:18.000 And, uh, yeah.

01:17:20.000 And to look back now after nearly five seasons later, it's just been extraordinary.

01:17:26.000 What about your favorite on-set visit from a donor or financier or community member of The Chosen?

01:17:35.000 Can there's one come to mind?

01:17:37.000 That's an interesting question.

01:17:43.000 You know, when people approach us, like whether they're fans or donors, The thing that they all have in common is that they just, from the deepest depths of their heart, want to thank us for bringing this show to life.

01:18:01.000 I've had people that haven't been to church in 30 years come up to us and say, this show helped me go back to church and helped me reestablish a connection to God.

01:18:16.000 And I can never repay you, but I am helping to fund your show.

01:18:20.000 So this is like how we can help kind of give back.

01:18:24.000 But yeah, I mean, that kind of stuff.

01:18:27.000 I mean, all jokes aside, you can't put a price on what this show has done and what these characters will do.

01:18:35.000 Probably no other character I ever play for the rest of my life will ever touch.

01:18:41.000 There's nothing that will ever come close to this experience.

01:18:44.000 And so I'm trying to stay as focused and as present as I can now as we start riding off into the near sunset of the series.

01:18:57.000 Oh, man, that's so exciting.

01:18:58.000 Jonathan, thank you very much.

01:19:00.000 You know what?

01:19:00.000 I really want to come and visit you on set.

01:19:02.000 I'd love to spend some time with you.

01:19:05.000 Oh, good.

01:19:05.000 Yeah, thanks, man.

01:19:06.000 Thanks for all of your help that you've given me on this journey.

01:19:10.000 Thanks for bringing me here.

01:19:12.000 Yeah, no, it's been my honor to call you friend and to get to be on your show.

01:19:18.000 And I love you and I'm praying for you.

01:19:21.000 And anytime you want to come on, you just let me know.

01:19:24.000 Thank you.

01:19:24.000 I love you, mate.

01:19:25.000 Thanks very much.

01:19:27.000 I'm still not letting you in my head for prayers, though!

01:19:29.000 Russell... Russell... He's in there!

01:19:33.000 No!

01:19:33.000 Ah!

01:19:34.000 Ah!

01:19:35.000 Oi!

01:19:35.000 What if I talk like this?

01:19:36.000 If I say something like this?

01:19:38.000 Lord!

01:19:39.000 Tell me what to do, Lord!

01:19:44.000 That interview with Jonathan Rumi was available one week earlier on Locals.

01:19:49.000 You can of course watch Colonel Douglas McGregor right now by becoming a subscriber.

01:19:55.000 Me and Douglas McGregor talk about Assange, we talk about Ukraine, we talk about the rise of populism and the rise of patriotism.

01:20:02.000 It's a fantastic conversation.

01:20:04.000 We will be back next week, not with more of the same, oh no, but with more of the different.

01:20:08.000 Until then, if you can, stay free.

01:20:10.000 Switch on, switch on, switch off.

01:20:13.000 Man, switch on, switch on, switch off.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - July 01, 2024

BIDEN just got DESTROYED in the debate & Exclusive Jonathan Roumie Interview - Stay Free 396

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript