Stay Free - Russel Brand - November 01, 2022


Eckhart Tolle (Humanity Needs Wisdom)


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour

Words per Minute

137.96031

Word Count

8,342

Sentence Count

504

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary

Eckhart Tolle is a spiritual teacher, author of Power of Now, and for me, the person that most easily embodies the principles that they espouse. In this episode, we talk about the importance of living in the moment, and how we can live in a state of consciousness that allows us to live in the present moment, even in times of crisis. We talk about how important it is to align individual spiritual awakening with collective awakening, and why it s so important to live each and every day as if we were living in a time of crisis, where we move from a financial crisis to a pandemic crisis, into a war crisis, and what it means to live a life that is grounded in the now. And, of course, we have a Q&A at the end of the episode, where you can ask any question you have about life, love, or self-improvement. Stay Free AF is a charity that helps mentally ill people and drug addicts, and every penny we get we give to junkies, is going to help them get the help they need. If you want to help the Stay Free Foundation, that s the charity we get, you can get new merch including hoodies and t-shirts and journals! There s a link there in the description, and all of the merch we get is a link to the Strive Foundation, which we get to help junkies. Get ready, get ready to live the moment right now! by becoming a supporter of the StayFree Foundation, and get your own hoodie and journals here. You can get a discount code: STrive.fm/subcutaneous to receive 20% off the price of your first purchase, plus a discount of $50 or more when you become a patron. This offer valid through Paypal. Subscribe to StayFreeAF.org.ee/subscriber_tweet and receive a 20% discount when you sign up to the Stayfree AF membership starting on 1/27/19th, and you get 10% off your first month, and a discount on the second month only starts starting at $50/month, and 5% discount starts after that gets you get VIP access to $99/ VIP + VIP gets a discount, and they get 7 days of $99, VIP access, and I mean VIP access starts next week, they get $25, and 4GBR, and VIP gets VIP access.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Subcutaneous, where I have conversations unbridled by cliche and unimpeded even by time herself.
00:00:09.000 I've had fantastic conversations already with Jocko Willink, Gabor Maté, and coming up soon we have Brené Brown, Joe Dispenza, and today...
00:00:18.000 Oh, today it's Eckhart Tolle.
00:00:20.000 Next week it's Jordan Peterson.
00:00:22.000 What incredible terrain we're crossing together.
00:00:25.000 Remember, you can watch this show live on Rumble every single day.
00:00:30.000 And all of the episodes we've recorded, they're over there on Rumble.
00:00:32.000 You can see people's faces as they handle these questions.
00:00:36.000 But today, it's time to talk to Eckhart Tolle, spiritual teacher, author of Power of Now, and for me, the person that most easily embodies the principles that they espouse.
00:00:46.000 If you want to take part in these conversations when they happen, sign up to Stay Free AF, then you can join us while I interview Eckhart, and from next season, A hundred people will be able to join us live in the room where we will do these shows live with an audience as we did with Gabor Maté.
00:01:04.000 You can have a look at the Gabor Maté episode on Stay Free AF right now, just one click and a few quid away.
00:01:11.000 Sign up to Stay Free AF for exclusive access to watch weekly interviews being recorded, weekly meditations, lessons in breathwork from the likes of Beate Simpkin, or you can learn tapping also with Nick Ortner, and every single day we do a Q&A straight after our show on Rumble every weekday 10am PT, 1pm ET and 5pm GMT.
00:01:31.000 Also, if you want to help the Stay Free Foundation, that's the charity we funded to help mentally ill people and drug addicts, You can get new merch including hoodies and t-shirts and journals.
00:01:40.000 There's a link there in the description and every penny we get we give to junkies.
00:01:45.000 But now it's time to talk to Eckhart Tolle.
00:01:47.000 Get ready, get ready to live in the moment right now!
00:01:54.000 What I'd love to frame our conversation around today, if I might, Eckhart, is the sense that we are living in a time of crisis, where we are lurching from one crisis to another, where we move from a financial crisis into a pandemic crisis, into a war crisis.
00:02:10.000 How do we align individual spiritual awakening with collective awakening?
00:02:16.000 And do you think that spiritual awakening, when attained, as it can only be in the present moment, means that we are somehow divorced or separate from
00:02:25.000 community activity in the same way that we would be separate from sort of personal goals of the
00:02:30.000 fulfillment of personal passions, say, do you have trouble squaring that circle?
00:02:36.000 Well, we are certainly moving into turbulent times and perhaps it's helpful to become more aware of one's own
00:02:56.000 state of consciousness.
00:03:00.000 That's the main thing, is to become aware that everything is experienced through your state of consciousness.
00:03:08.000 And your state of consciousness determines the way in which you experience so-called reality.
00:03:16.000 So you could divide, for example, your experience of reality into three parts.
00:03:24.000 One is you experience reality through your past, which is of course all the things that have happened to you and all the things that make up your personality.
00:03:41.000 They are accumulations, mental, emotional accumulations from the past.
00:03:46.000 And that's who you consider yourself to be.
00:03:50.000 That's part of your reality is your past or whatever happens even in the more recent past.
00:03:57.000 Another part of your reality is the future.
00:04:00.000 Many people are very much focused on the future.
00:04:04.000 What's going to happen to me?
00:04:05.000 What's going to happen an hour from now, tomorrow, next year?
00:04:10.000 What's going to happen to the world?
00:04:13.000 Are we going to survive?
00:04:14.000 Am I going to make it?
00:04:16.000 Et cetera, et cetera.
00:04:17.000 So we have the past as part of your reality, which makes up your identity in the sense of personal identity.
00:04:26.000 You have the future, which you look to for fulfillment or liberation from a state of Insufficiency or lack, you look to the future for liberation, which is normal, you look to the future to become a more complete human being, to achieve or acquire this or that, that's all fine, and then you have the present moment, the immediate experience of the present moment, and that's often overlooked, because future and past have
00:05:02.000 Obscure in the cases of, in most people's lives, future, past and future, past in the sense of carrying the weight of a personality that's based on the conditioning of your mind, and then the future in the sense of desperately needing to get somewhere, there's the hope of fulfillment, and at the same time there's the fear of non-fulfillment or loss, so the future is a two-edged sword, On the one hand, it promises fulfillment and it might give it to you.
00:05:37.000 Or it's experienced as a threat of loss or something bad happening or death or whatever.
00:05:49.000 So they tend to obscure the present moment.
00:05:51.000 And then there's, I would add, a fourth thing that's only come into people's lives in the past decade.
00:05:59.000 In the experience of reality, there's a virtual world of the reality.
00:06:06.000 So there are many people these days who spend several hours a day focusing on the virtual reality of social media, whatever it is that they're engaged in, when they look at their screen.
00:06:19.000 So we could say perhaps there's your screen reality, which for many people, unfortunately, especially young people, has actually become The main way in which they experience reality, and that's quite amazing.
00:06:36.000 It's something totally new.
00:06:39.000 Until recently, it's only been past, future, and present moment.
00:06:43.000 Now it's past, future, present moment, and then the virtual reality.
00:06:51.000 So that's something that we need to be aware of.
00:06:56.000 The spiritual dimension can only come into your life through awareness of the present moment reality, your immediate reality in the present moment here and now.
00:07:12.000 That's the entry point into the spirituality.
00:07:14.000 And that is often overlooked in people's lives.
00:07:18.000 They overlook the most important thing there ever is, which is actually their immediate experience of this moment, which after all is all there is ever.
00:07:30.000 So, past and future are actually experienced as mental formations.
00:07:39.000 One could say that past and future don't really exist except as thoughts in your mind.
00:07:50.000 Without the thoughts in your mind, There's no past and future.
00:07:54.000 One could go into that.
00:07:58.000 Philosophical questions may arise out of that, but we don't need to go there.
00:08:04.000 May I interrupt for a second?
00:08:06.000 I'd like to see you, Russell, but I can't see you right now.
00:08:09.000 I can only see myself.
00:08:10.000 Oh, there you are.
00:08:13.000 I don't like looking at myself.
00:08:18.000 Do you know the story of Narcissus?
00:08:21.000 I was in it.
00:08:23.000 [Laughter]
00:08:25.000 The, uh, the, the, the, the Greek, the, it's a mythological tale.
00:08:31.000 I call it, it's a story of how the first selfie happened.
00:08:39.000 So the story goes back into a mythological past.
00:08:44.000 It's not, I don't think it ever really happened, but it's deep wisdom embedded in that story.
00:08:51.000 There was Narcissus.
00:08:53.000 The man, a very beautiful young man, he was very, very happy.
00:08:57.000 He didn't know he was beautiful.
00:09:00.000 There were no mirrors, but he was just happy.
00:09:03.000 One day he saw a very still pool of water and he looked into this pool of water and he saw his reflection.
00:09:13.000 For the first time, he saw himself in the reflection of this water.
00:09:20.000 And as the mythological tale goes, it says he fell in love with himself.
00:09:27.000 When he saw himself, he saw that he was beautiful and he fell in love with himself.
00:09:34.000 And after that he was never happy again.
00:09:38.000 And this, there's enormous wisdom in that story because to me it tells the story, I sometimes Jokingly say it's the story of the first selfie, but really it tells of the beginning of the human ego.
00:09:53.000 The human ego is the formulation of an image in your mind that you have of yourself.
00:10:00.000 It consists of visual image and to a large extent A narrative that's connected, a story that you tell yourself, that you believe in, that you say, this is me, this is who I am.
00:10:15.000 So you begin, as the ego developed, humans began to live with dividing themselves up into two.
00:10:24.000 There's me and the image of the That I have of myself, and I live then through a mental image of myself.
00:10:32.000 And so that is the split that happens.
00:10:35.000 Perhaps this is what sometimes is described as the fall, the fall of humans into the egoic consciousness.
00:10:43.000 And this is what we are still living with.
00:10:46.000 And over the millennia, the ego has become stronger and stronger.
00:10:51.000 So our Entire identity is then based on that mental image that we have of ourselves, which in most cases has now become a narrative.
00:11:07.000 This narrative you call me, me and my life, you call it, people call it my life.
00:11:12.000 And they don't realize when they call, when they say my life, they're talking about a story that they're telling themselves in their minds.
00:11:21.000 People carry this burden of, because every life is so problematic, every life has is a problem.
00:11:31.000 Many people's identity is experienced as a big problem and they're looking for a solution to this problem of me.
00:11:39.000 Then you look to the future and occasionally it helps you a bit.
00:11:43.000 The future enables you to do things, et cetera, et cetera.
00:11:48.000 But eventually, as you grow older, as I'm growing older, and I begin to realize the future is also very lethal.
00:11:56.000 It's going to eventually kill you.
00:12:00.000 First, the future gives you everything.
00:12:03.000 All the possibilities are there.
00:12:05.000 It's a wonderful thing to have time.
00:12:07.000 It's really time.
00:12:10.000 The universe gives you time to do things, to acquire things, to get better at this or that, and then this beautiful thing, time, that you need for everything, and you have it, and then it turns around and it starts killing you.
00:12:27.000 It gives you everything and then it takes everything away.
00:12:30.000 That is time and that is the world that we live in.
00:12:34.000 I call it the horizontal dimension where things are.
00:12:38.000 There's past and there's future.
00:12:40.000 We live through memory and anticipation.
00:12:40.000 That's time.
00:12:44.000 Humans live mainly through memory and anticipation.
00:12:50.000 And what they don't realize is the primary importance of the present moment.
00:12:56.000 That ultimate sanity, you have to seek that in the present moment rather than looking for it at some future point or in the virtual world.
00:13:13.000 The virtual world is an amplification and an externalization of the egoic mind in many cases.
00:13:20.000 The human mind gets amplified there and then you have it there on the screen.
00:13:26.000 So I don't know what your initial question was, let's see if we can get back to that, but it's all connected.
00:13:34.000 You once told me that in one of the conversations where I was troubling you having gotten your phone number by illicit means, that you said you can never be happy in the conceptual mind.
00:13:48.000 You are trying to find happy in the conceptual mind and of course the future is ultimately conceptual, the past is conceptual, my identity as an individual, as a Male, the narcissus identity.
00:14:01.000 I was very taken with your explanation of that myth in the pure pool of unbounded potentiality, the super state of all unconscious possibility, connected perhaps that a limitlessness, a choice is made to identify with form, whether that form is physical or thought form.
00:14:20.000 I like that at this point of distinction and separation, this point of distinction, separation occurs.
00:14:28.000 It reminded me too, as you alluded to, of the fall of humankind, of course regarded as expulsion from the garden, the garden being a cultivated space where everything is immediately available without requirement or recourse for the external.
00:14:46.000 Some people, I suppose they're not of a spiritual persuasion, would seek to say that this mythic memory of the garden is born of our shared individual memory of a uteral life, where all of us live initially formless, then single-cellular, bi-cellular, where we live suspended and all of our needs are met by the Great Eternal Mother.
00:15:08.000 And while we're on this sort of somewhat mythic pathway, Eckhart, I wondered if I My ask, as I felt you were on the brink of saying it when you talked about horizontal dimensionality of the function of the mythic symbol of the crucifix when it comes to enlightenment beyond Christ's ascension, is there a personal and relevant message for us in this image system?
00:15:38.000 It's a very profound image And to appreciate it and understand it.
00:15:42.000 You don't need to be a Christian to appreciate this deep wisdom embedded in that image.
00:15:53.000 So, first of all, you have... If you came here as an extraterrestrial, well, they're probably here already, but... And if you saw for the first time... Don't think I haven't noticed your initials?
00:16:08.000 Yes, well, that's true.
00:16:10.000 I won't say any more about that.
00:16:12.000 So an extraterrestrial, they would be very surprised to see humans worshipping a man.
00:16:23.000 It's not just the cross, because there's an image of the man crucified on the cross, and people are worshipping that image.
00:16:32.000 So they would say, how does that make sense?
00:16:35.000 What is that?
00:16:37.000 So the central image of Christianity is the crucifixion, the man on the cross, which really is an image of suffering.
00:16:47.000 The central image of Christianity is an image of suffering.
00:16:50.000 In the same way that the central teaching of the Buddha is a teaching of the fact of human suffering, called dukkha, the primordial fact of human existence.
00:17:02.000 The Buddha taught the primordial fact of human existence is the fact of dukkha.
00:17:10.000 Buddha said wherever you go, whatever you do, sooner or later, sooner rather than later, you will encounter some form of suffering.
00:17:20.000 Dukkha is a Pali term.
00:17:23.000 Pali is a language related to Sanskrit.
00:17:26.000 Many Buddhist scriptures are in Pali, as you probably know.
00:17:30.000 So Dukkha can also be translated as unsatisfactoriness, unhappiness, misery, whatever.
00:17:38.000 You could call it unhappiness in whatever form.
00:17:41.000 So Dukkha is suffering.
00:17:42.000 The central image of Christianity is also an image of suffering, but it is also an image of The transcendence of suffering, because the crucifixion is the image of suffering, but it also points to the resurrection.
00:17:59.000 The cross then is ambivalent.
00:18:06.000 It has a twofold meaning.
00:18:08.000 One, it's a torture instrument.
00:18:10.000 It's the cause of human suffering, of this archetypal human, as I call Christ.
00:18:16.000 It's the image of, it's a torture instrument.
00:18:20.000 But the cross also is a symbol of the divine.
00:18:24.000 It's both.
00:18:26.000 It's a torture instrument.
00:18:28.000 And it's a symbol of the divine.
00:18:30.000 In other words, it points to something that perhaps no human would have understood conceptually at the time, that the path of human evolution is the evolution through suffering.
00:18:47.000 Eventually, we awaken and we transcend through the experience of suffering.
00:18:53.000 Suffering eventually awakens us.
00:18:56.000 And the Buddha, when he talked about Dukkha, he also added, he said literally, I teach suffering and the end of suffering, which means, he was saying, I show you how suffering arises, ultimately how the human mind creates it, I show you how suffering arises and I show you how it can be transcended.
00:19:28.000 So the crucifixion is suffering and the transcendence of suffering.
00:19:33.000 But there would be no awakening, spiritual awakening, if it weren't for the suffering that precedes it.
00:19:42.000 That is the path on all levels.
00:19:46.000 Evolution of every life form, the existence of every life form is precarious.
00:19:54.000 Every life form, as soon as it manifests into this existence, It encounters limitations.
00:20:01.000 It encounters danger.
00:20:04.000 Life is always precarious.
00:20:07.000 And so even a blade of grass has a struggle.
00:20:10.000 It has to come up through the soil.
00:20:13.000 I heard some gardeners, when they plant seeds or something, they sometimes, when the first The plant first sprouts, they put more soil on top of it.
00:20:26.000 They say that, I talked to a gardener who did this and said, why are you putting more soil on top of this thing that's already sprouting?
00:20:33.000 He said, then they have to struggle and then they become stronger.
00:20:39.000 When they finally emerge, they are a stronger plant through the struggle.
00:20:44.000 The struggle attracts more energy, more life energy.
00:20:50.000 And so this is why humans never evolve in their comfort zone.
00:20:56.000 No human has ever achieved deep insights or in evolutionary terms, no human has ever Experienced a deeper awakening in their comfort zone.
00:21:14.000 Sitting on the sofa, they're drinking their beer, watching NetBinge, watching Netflix.
00:21:18.000 It's so great.
00:21:20.000 Whatever their comfort zone is.
00:21:22.000 Lying on the beach.
00:21:23.000 It's great.
00:21:24.000 People think, one day I will achieve this.
00:21:27.000 I'm going to move to Hawaii or to Bali and then I'll have made it.
00:21:30.000 I'll lie on the beach.
00:21:32.000 Or they might think, when I have enough money I can go to a beautiful spa and out there.
00:21:39.000 I will be pampered, I will get the purest food, I will get massages every day, and then I can actually dedicate my life to spiritual awakening.
00:21:50.000 Those will be the ideal conditions for spiritual awakening.
00:21:53.000 I wish I had the money to do that, they say, but of course the opposite is true.
00:21:58.000 In their comfort zone, they would not awaken at all.
00:22:01.000 They would gradually go to sleep, so to speak.
00:22:04.000 And the ideal situation for your awakening is the very limitations you experience in your life at this moment in your life.
00:22:17.000 That is your ideal situation.
00:22:19.000 Some imagined comfort zone!
00:22:21.000 Amazing!
00:22:22.000 All right, I've got some questions.
00:22:23.000 Firstly, to your point there about the precondition of suffering as the natural environment for enlightenment, it came to me the idea of Marcus Aurelius in this reified position as an emperor and indeed a philosopher king, presumably able to achieve a degree of comfort due to his authority and power and yet living in that place of stoic wisdom.
00:22:45.000 I'd like to also add to this because I know that I have to ask all my questions at once because I know I might not be speaking for a while after this, like there's the Marcus Aurelius in a reified position argument, then I want to add to that the idea of Epicureanism, the idea that Pleasure and hedonism can lead to some unbounded state and is this not a sort of an ascetic model that is about the denial of pleasure and the denial of the body?
00:23:12.000 Where do you place of sex and sexuality on that spectra?
00:23:17.000 But firstly, and I'd like you to cover all of this if you would, and you've still got a bit of question about the war left over from about half hour ago that's just warming on the stove for you in a Tupperware box to answer in a moment.
00:23:30.000 And I'd also like to add that I want to talk to you about undifferentiated states because you used when talking about the sapling seedling metaphor that struggle attract you said, attracts more energy and I wonder where this
00:23:45.000 attraction is from and where this attraction is going to. I also would like to recount a
00:23:50.000 personal story if I may, Eckhart, that recently after doing a show late at night, which
00:23:56.000 required of me that I be absolutely present in the moment in order for me to deliver what I was
00:24:01.000 required to deliver. I had to function at a high state. After this, I was in this state afterwards.
00:24:08.000 Another time when I was troubling you on the phone, you said to me, the minute you're not on the... you said the minute you leave the stage, you said you are no longer that person and that experience is over and you have lost that concept.
00:24:19.000 Well, not so for me.
00:24:20.000 I live in the velocity and momentum of that moment and still the next day after not sleeping well because my body wants to stay awake, it wants action, it wants...
00:24:29.000 Essentially, if I may say, coitus and procreation.
00:24:32.000 And the next morning, when I wake up, I still feel I'm still in it.
00:24:37.000 I'm still in it, but it's sort of glorious.
00:24:40.000 And as I drove to work the next day, when I see the bins, the garbage left out, you know, the garbage cans, which are like wheelie bins in this country, when I see them, I see them in a sort of a joyful state, like saintly, like it's Disney versions of trash cans, like they make me laugh.
00:24:56.000 I see them as funny, as if they're talking to one another.
00:24:59.000 And when I see the pigeons on a wire, it amuses me, and I notice how close it is, this sense of the vibrant, constant vivacity and non-separateness of things, how close it is to glory, how close it is to comedy, how close it is to beauty, to see momentarily behind the veil, how approximate it is also to insanity, To people that go, my television is talking to me, it's telling me that I've got to do this, I'm getting information from the news.
00:25:26.000 And it reminded me of my experiences, although they were a long time ago now, of psychedelics, in my case just simple LSD, that whilst it was fearful and unstructured, and I was probably too young and not ready for those kind of experiences, that what I felt I now remember on LSD is non-separateness and that non-separateness was
00:25:45.000 scary to know, oh my god this is all a concept, I'm not really me,
00:25:50.000 that's not really a table
00:25:52.000 this is the application of concepts to temporal circumstances
00:25:56.000 what was that table before it was a table? What will it be in five years?
00:26:00.000 What is five years? So I suppose I'm asking to you about these routes to
00:26:05.000 First that Marcus Aurelius tag, reified position, how did he experience the struggle to come up with this sort of Stoic philosophy that he's a significant part of.
00:26:14.000 What do you say about Epicureanism and the role of pleasure and is it not like because you know what about in Tantra in the Vedas where they say just go crazy man and live it all out.
00:26:24.000 And what do you think also about These transcendent states that are achieved through psychedelics, whether or not they can be accessed, I'm guessing you say they do, whether or not you've ever taken any psychedelics, and if you understand what I'm saying about how close this is to a type of insanity, we talk about awakening, but isn't there a kind of danger in there, because obviously I'm very familiar with your personal awakening, but so that's just some questions, Eckhart Tolle.
00:26:50.000 Yes, well, there are many questions and ultimately Probably boils down to one question.
00:27:00.000 Every human is longing unconsciously, mostly unconsciously longing for self-transcendence.
00:27:09.000 They somehow feel that they are not comfortable with themselves.
00:27:14.000 They're not comfortable in their own skin.
00:27:16.000 There's always in the background and sometimes in the foreground, there's a sense of something missing, something not quite right.
00:27:26.000 Or I haven't arrived yet.
00:27:28.000 I haven't really started to live yet.
00:27:31.000 I'm waiting to start out living.
00:27:33.000 Some people reach the age of 60, and they're still waiting to start living.
00:27:37.000 And then finally they say, oh, when I retire, then I'll start living.
00:27:40.000 No, you won't.
00:27:41.000 So there's a longing for self-transcendence.
00:27:47.000 And then they may seek self-transcendence in certain experiences, and certain experiences can give them a taste or a glimpse of temporary self-transcendence.
00:28:02.000 For example, you could say alcohol.
00:28:08.000 You drink, you take a few, a whiskey, whatever you drink, and what does it do?
00:28:16.000 You have the first one and you begin to feel, let's say this, you're a normal anxious person, Stressed, anxious, you've had a rough day, and your mind says, come on, you deserve a treat, get the bottle, and the mind, even if you have a problem with alcohol, the mind will convince you, okay, just one more, what else do I have in my life?
00:28:39.000 Let's go, come on, do it!
00:28:43.000 And so, what is that?
00:28:46.000 Just water, Eckhart.
00:28:48.000 Nearly 20 years, one day at a time, just water.
00:28:51.000 But it definitely was triggered by your description of that whisky.
00:28:57.000 Oh, that's great.
00:28:57.000 So then what that does is, because all the anxiety was your mind continuously creating Anxious states, thinking anxious thoughts and creating anxious emotions.
00:29:13.000 So that's a burden of the self, living with myself, this problematic self.
00:29:19.000 After the first drink, mind activity slows down a little bit.
00:29:23.000 And you go, oh, it feels a little better.
00:29:25.000 You begin to feel it.
00:29:26.000 Then the second one makes you feel even better.
00:29:29.000 And then you suddenly, maybe you haven't smiled all day, and then suddenly you go, oh, Life isn't so bad, is it?
00:29:38.000 It's actually quite nice.
00:29:40.000 Why is it suddenly a little better?
00:29:42.000 Because the mind is slowing down even more.
00:29:46.000 And so this does not happen in every case.
00:29:49.000 There are some people, but that's another story I don't want to go into right now, some people actually become angry and aggressive when they drink.
00:29:58.000 That's another story.
00:30:00.000 But many, many people Experience and ease.
00:30:07.000 Life suddenly feels easier, more pleasant.
00:30:12.000 And then they start, some people start moving or dancing or singing, then suddenly it's, they're becoming, it's a moment where they're becoming free of this problematic self.
00:30:23.000 And then they think, oh, if I heard, I've had two or three, then another If I had another two or three, I would feel even better.
00:30:32.000 But unfortunately that does not happen, because if they drink even more, gradually they are moving towards complete unconsciousness.
00:30:41.000 And so there is self-transcendence.
00:30:43.000 That's only one example.
00:30:45.000 Self-transcendence is also other drugs, like the stuff that people smoke.
00:30:51.000 It's legal here now.
00:30:53.000 So you have this dried plant that for a long time was illegal.
00:31:00.000 I mean, it's a bit absurd.
00:31:02.000 People carrying in their pockets leaves of a dried plant and then they get arrested for carrying leaves of a dried plant.
00:31:08.000 Anyway, so you smoke.
00:31:12.000 I tried it.
00:31:13.000 I don't know if I told you, I tried it once because people asking me, what's it like?
00:31:17.000 Is it the same as meditation?
00:31:19.000 I said, I have to try it.
00:31:21.000 So we were in Amsterdam in a hotel and of course that's the ideal place to try it.
00:31:25.000 Well, it was at the time, nowadays it's available elsewhere too.
00:31:29.000 So I tried it.
00:31:30.000 And I could see it did something to my mind.
00:31:33.000 I could feel a dulling, a kind of dulling of my mind.
00:31:37.000 I would not want to repeat it because my normal state is so much more pleasant.
00:31:45.000 Then I can see why for people who are burdened by this anxious mind or the problem-making mind, the egoic mind, they experience a moment of release.
00:31:58.000 It gives them a glimpse of becoming a bit freer of the me, this always anxious or always regretting this or looking, fearing this, all the fear and anxiety.
00:32:13.000 Subsides for a while.
00:32:15.000 So it's another, it's a glimpse of self-transcendence.
00:32:18.000 But again, if you go further that route, you again move towards unconsciousness.
00:32:24.000 Yes, it can be.
00:32:26.000 I also experimented.
00:32:28.000 No, I didn't experiment.
00:32:29.000 I took it once.
00:32:31.000 Acid, LSD, because people asked me, isn't this the same as meditation?
00:32:36.000 I couldn't answer the questions.
00:32:38.000 I had to try it.
00:32:39.000 So I took some, and that was years ago.
00:32:46.000 People experience in different ways, but what I experienced was an enormous intensification of sensory experience, like everything was, every sense was amplified.
00:32:59.000 Like the sense of smell, the sense of touch, the visual sense, looking at an object.
00:33:05.000 I could see walls in the room pulsating with energy and I can see how what it does It completely, it removes the thinking mind.
00:33:22.000 And what's left is a pure experiencing of it.
00:33:26.000 The pure sensory experience.
00:33:28.000 It removes the thinking.
00:33:29.000 In that sense, it has certain similarities with the state of presence or the conscious, very conscious state of spiritual presence.
00:33:41.000 Because in spiritual presence also the mind is still, But consciousness remains.
00:33:48.000 The difference between all these things where people seek self-transcendence through drugs or alcohol or even sexual, the intense sexual pleasure will also stop your mind temporarily, not for too long.
00:34:04.000 Well, it depends.
00:34:06.000 Eckhart, I expect better from you!
00:34:13.000 I hope it's not like when you're answering questions, like, oh god, when's the orgasm?
00:34:19.000 Goes on for hours!
00:34:23.000 The difference is, when you indulge in those things that give you temporary relief from yourself, You're moving below thought.
00:34:36.000 The thinking dimension is where most people live.
00:34:40.000 The voice in the head talks, talks, talks, interprets, judges, criticizes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:34:47.000 That's the thinking dimension.
00:34:48.000 You can become free of that mind-created self, which is the ego, by moving below thinking.
00:34:57.000 So through certain drugs, help you move below thinking.
00:35:03.000 Also you can experience it when you are just about to go to sleep.
00:35:08.000 There's a moment when you're half awake still and half asleep.
00:35:13.000 And in that moment, you can sense the nature of sleep as a sweetness that pulls you, that it pulls you.
00:35:22.000 And there's nothing left of your problems because you've fallen below thinking.
00:35:28.000 And you suddenly feel so good as you're moving towards sleep.
00:35:32.000 It feels so good.
00:35:34.000 Ah!
00:35:35.000 And then you disappear into sleep.
00:35:38.000 You have moved below thinking.
00:35:41.000 But that's, spiritually speaking, there are certain similarities with that, with these things that give you a glimpse of self-transcendence.
00:35:50.000 And spiritually, spiritual awakening, you rise above thinking.
00:35:57.000 But there are certain similarities between the two states.
00:36:01.000 And the drug-induced temporary glimpses that people have can be helpful if you don't get addicted.
00:36:11.000 Some people have started their spiritual life by taking acid once or twice or three times and then they started doing meditation and then they didn't need that anymore.
00:36:23.000 There's no, there's no, the ultimate solution is not for us in falling below thinking.
00:36:30.000 We cannot, we don't, we cannot regress.
00:36:34.000 To that.
00:36:36.000 The animals also live in a pre-thinking stage, in a pre-egoic stage.
00:36:42.000 The dog has no self-image.
00:36:45.000 It hasn't arrived at that stage yet.
00:36:47.000 That's why the dog is happy.
00:36:49.000 I've never met a dog that has a problem with body image or problem with self-esteem.
00:36:56.000 Even the ugliest dog is fine here.
00:36:58.000 He has no secondary image through which it lives.
00:37:04.000 That's why the dogs are quite happy, they don't have a self.
00:37:09.000 But we can't go back there.
00:37:11.000 Our destiny is, the next stage in human evolution, is not to let go of thinking completely, no, thought is the most wonderful tool that there is, but not to seek an identity through the movement of thought, to find a deeper identity that is not That is not separate from thought, but is far deeper than thought.
00:37:37.000 You could say, for example, the image I sometimes use is the movement of thought is like ripples on the surface of the ocean.
00:37:46.000 The ripple is not different from the ocean.
00:37:49.000 And humans have an identity.
00:37:51.000 Let's use this analogy.
00:37:56.000 Let's say we are all rebels on the surface of the ocean as human beings.
00:38:01.000 We are rebels on the surface of the ocean and most of these rebels on the surface of the ocean only know themselves as rebels.
00:38:10.000 The form that they are as a rebel, the physical form and the mental form.
00:38:15.000 And so they live on the horizontal plane, the surface of the ocean, and are surrounded by other ripples.
00:38:23.000 And they feel threatened by other ripples, or they want to attract other ripples in order to become, to join it, become a bigger ripple.
00:38:32.000 And that is the existence of the purely horizontal plane where most humans still live.
00:38:39.000 And that I'd like to mention in connection with that the cross that you mentioned that there's another dimension to the image of the cross and because the cross is actually also a pre-christian or was already a pre-christian symbol the cross has the two dimensions the horizontal the intersection of the vertical dimension and the horizontal dimension so you could say this the vertical dimension is where we live here in In the dimension of time and physical reality, and even our psychological reality, is the vertical dimension of life, past and future.
00:39:20.000 You cannot escape time on the horizontal dimension.
00:39:25.000 Then there's the possibility of realizing that there is a deeper dimension to life, Then the phenomenal existence that you experience here in the world of a manifest of physical and psychological manifestation, there is the vertical dimension.
00:39:45.000 And the vertical dimension, going back to the ripple, what happens if the ripple suddenly realizes that it is not just a ripple?
00:39:53.000 Yes, it is a ripple, but it's also an extension of the ocean.
00:39:59.000 It's just a way in which the ocean manifests temporarily on the surface.
00:40:05.000 And then if that ripple suddenly realizes, wow, I'm not just a ripple, suddenly the ripple can sense the vastness out of which it has come and the vastness to which it is still connected, always connected, ultimately always one with.
00:40:26.000 And suddenly, The identity of the ripple, which is, in this analogy, it's a human being, of course, the identity of the ripple suddenly shifts from being exclusively identified with the physical and psychological form of me on the horizontal plane, it begins to identify with the ocean itself.
00:40:53.000 Now, in human terms, let's put aside the analogy now, In human terms, that means the human being suddenly realizes that he or she, or they, or whatever, suddenly realizes they are not just the human, this is how I use the terminology that I now use, and they're not just human, they're also the being.
00:41:19.000 The human is the personality lives on the horizontal dimension, the physical body, And the psychological entity that is the person or the personality.
00:41:30.000 Fine.
00:41:31.000 Nothing wrong with that.
00:41:32.000 It's fine.
00:41:34.000 It needs to be honored and recognized and treated well.
00:41:38.000 That's a horizontal existence.
00:41:42.000 And then, that's the human.
00:41:45.000 But the question is always, are you just a human?
00:41:51.000 Or have you realized that you are a human being?
00:41:53.000 The being is the transcendent dimension.
00:41:57.000 That in the analogy that I just used, the being is the ocean.
00:42:02.000 So they're not separate.
00:42:03.000 They go together.
00:42:05.000 You have the two dimensions.
00:42:07.000 You are a person, but you are infinitely more than just this person.
00:42:13.000 On the horizontal plane of existence.
00:42:17.000 So, in that sense, we could summarize all spiritual experience or spiritual realization by saying that no matter what tradition, you begin to sense It's actually not that complicated.
00:42:32.000 There's not much to understand here.
00:42:34.000 Intellectually, it's not a conceptual thing.
00:42:36.000 It's not a conceptual realization.
00:42:38.000 Awakening is not a conceptual thing at all.
00:42:41.000 It doesn't mean you suddenly understand everything or you suddenly understand more.
00:42:45.000 It doesn't mean that at all.
00:42:47.000 It's a sudden sensing, even if it's just come just a glimpse at first, that there is an animating presence within you that far transcends the person, but is not separate from the person.
00:43:01.000 And not only is that animating presence in you, you can begin to... I hope it's not too mystical.
00:43:10.000 It's actually quite practical.
00:43:12.000 You begin to sense that the entire universe It's permeated by an animating present that manifests as millions and billions of life forms.
00:43:25.000 It takes on disguises in different vibrational frequencies of the one animating presence that pervades the universe.
00:43:33.000 That is the organizing principle, the vast intelligence behind the manifestation of life in this form.
00:43:41.000 There is vast intelligence expressing itself, gradually growing in this dimension where there's time.
00:43:49.000 It gradually evolves in this dimension.
00:43:52.000 You can see how life has evolved on this planet alone, from just minerals, to plant life, to animal life, to human life.
00:44:01.000 And it's still evolving.
00:44:03.000 So the creation of the universe is not complete.
00:44:07.000 God is still working on it.
00:44:09.000 It's a work in progress.
00:44:12.000 And humans... Now, what is... I mentioned God.
00:44:15.000 I don't usually mention God because there's so many misconceptions about God.
00:44:19.000 Is this animating presence God, you could ask?
00:44:25.000 By the way, to sense the animating presence, all that's required is for your mind for a moment to come to a cessation without loss of consciousness, so you're not falling below thought.
00:44:39.000 The thinking mind stops for a moment.
00:44:44.000 And what's left, what is left, when the thinking mind stops for a moment, you're still aware.
00:44:50.000 There's an awareness, you're still, you can sense perceptions, you're aware of everything, but you're not interpreting it.
00:44:57.000 In other words, there's a stillness behind the sense perceptions, and that stillness behind sense perceptions is the awareness, or the consciousness, is another word for it.
00:45:08.000 So you suddenly sense The consciousness that is the essence of your being, not that you have consciousness, you are consciousness.
00:45:21.000 If you have it, then you are too, who are you?
00:45:24.000 You are consciousness.
00:45:25.000 So it's incredible.
00:45:31.000 Your destiny is to realize that in this lifetime, And then live in connectedness with it, so that you're no longer confined only to the personal identity.
00:45:50.000 There is a deeper identity in addition to that.
00:45:53.000 Yes, you still have a personal identity, the narrative in your mind, Opinions, you can see in the contemporary world how people are identified with their opinions.
00:46:08.000 The opinions, they become part of their identity and that's very dangerous.
00:46:14.000 When opinion becomes identity, then you're lost in your mental positions and they become part of your ego.
00:46:22.000 There was a Zen master who said, don't seek for the truth, just stop cherishing opinions.
00:46:30.000 That was the Zen master's main teaching.
00:46:33.000 Stop cherishing opinions.
00:46:35.000 He didn't say stop having opinions, he said stop cherishing.
00:46:39.000 Now what does cherishing mean?
00:46:40.000 What he was talking about, identifying it, to seek a self, In your opinion, then you are lost.
00:46:48.000 And so millions of humans are lost on that level of existence, unfortunately.
00:46:54.000 And then they create a world of problems.
00:46:57.000 Imagine it's not just the individual human being that's lost.
00:47:01.000 The entire collectives are lost in that dimension of identification with mental positions and so on.
00:47:09.000 And so that is the The essence of unconscious living.
00:47:16.000 We need to become free of that.
00:47:17.000 Sir, it's difficult not to imagine that this process of concretising the present awareness with the opinion is not somehow, if not a deliberate project, then a fully immersive one in our culture at this time, that we are hemmed in to dominions of opinion, that we're We are held there, we are held in a space of external identification that we're encouraged almost to do it.
00:47:45.000 When you invite us to, for a moment, not identify with our ever assessing and categorizing mind and to simply be present, I've once either read or experienced you suggesting Bring your awareness to the hands.
00:48:01.000 You can feel that there is energy in your hands.
00:48:03.000 Your hands are not thinking.
00:48:05.000 And I found that a useful tool.
00:48:08.000 And I note that when I'm able to access this sense of presence, it feels to me correlative of charisma.
00:48:16.000 And another word for which, of course, is presence.
00:48:19.000 You sense when someone is very, this person is present.
00:48:23.000 They're not just in a lot of thought.
00:48:25.000 They're actually there in the moment.
00:48:28.000 And it's, whoa, this person is here.
00:48:31.000 You feel it.
00:48:32.000 It's sort of an energizing phenomenon.
00:48:35.000 I have some challenges around the sort of quantification of metaphysical information, i.e.
00:48:40.000 below thought, above thought.
00:48:43.000 These kind of concepts can be difficult.
00:48:45.000 And I feel that perhaps the greatest, do you agree, Eckhart, the greatest ideological argument, ongoing one, is one of material rationalism, post-enlightenment thinking, that continually tethers us to the measurable.
00:49:00.000 I can see how the great scientific and technological revolutions that led to the unbelievable instruments that we are currently utilizing also leads us to identify with that that can be measured.
00:49:13.000 And there is something that is Unquantifiable about this prima materia to which you refer, this oceanic oneness, this beingness that it seems that we are all an expression of.
00:49:26.000 In this time where we are obsessed narcissistically with our identity, not to challenge the individual identities that certain cultural groups may have had in adversity with other more oppressive cultural identity formats, but when we are wedded and welded to our individual identity, whether that's as me, Russell, or me, a man, or me as a white man.
00:49:49.000 I think it becomes increasingly difficult for us to experience and live in accordance with what appears to be a principle of unity.
00:49:59.000 And you said, interestingly, that we do not think it, we sense it.
00:50:04.000 I've often wondered if the feeling of love was an awareness beyond the individual consciousness, as it were, the persona consciousness, of unity.
00:50:14.000 A feeling of unity.
00:50:16.000 A feeling of non-separateness.
00:50:18.000 That when I am in love, I am not separate from the beloved.
00:50:22.000 And the challenge becomes to make the beloved all things, without distinction, to love as I would my children.
00:50:29.000 You know, all beings.
00:50:33.000 Yes.
00:50:34.000 Now, words are always limited, so when we use feeling, I use sensing rather than feeling to differentiate it from, you feel emotions too.
00:50:45.000 Emotions come and go, and you can have conflicting emotions, you can laugh.
00:50:50.000 On the emotional level, you can, what is called love, that's another word that has many meanings in many levels, Everybody has experienced, they love one person one day, and the next day they hate the same person.
00:51:07.000 This is not uncommon in relationships.
00:51:12.000 There's always, there's a wedding, which means you have found a person that makes you happy.
00:51:19.000 And a few years later, there's a divorce, which means the very person that made you happy is now the person that makes you unhappy.
00:51:27.000 So feelings are not that reliable.
00:51:30.000 They're fine to be acknowledged as they arise, but it's actually deeper than a feeling.
00:51:36.000 This is why language is so limited.
00:51:39.000 So I didn't want to use feelings to describe this realization, the realization of that Dimension within you that one could call the unconditioned consciousness or pure consciousness.
00:51:55.000 So I call it the sensing.
00:51:56.000 You can sense it.
00:51:57.000 It's actually deeper than any emotion.
00:52:00.000 And so you sense that depth.
00:52:02.000 And when you sense it, then you look at another person or you interact with another person.
00:52:09.000 You see them, you listen to them.
00:52:10.000 And as you look at them and as you listen to their words or whatever it is, At the same time, you can sense that presence that is in you.
00:52:23.000 That is the attention, the conscious attention.
00:52:27.000 Listening is a wonderful art.
00:52:29.000 If you're able to listen to another person in that state of openness where you're not already formulating the next question, already mentally arguing with what the person is saying.
00:52:40.000 Yeah.
00:52:42.000 So there are many people who are not really listening.
00:52:44.000 So when you talk to them, to really listen, there needs to be an alert, open attention.
00:52:54.000 And not an interference of the thinking mind that immediately evaluates, interprets, criticizes, whatever it does.
00:53:06.000 That's not the real listening.
00:53:09.000 There was a beautiful, there's this beautiful school of psychology, Carl Rogers, He created an American psychotherapist.
00:53:19.000 His main teaching was for the therapist to be in that state of pure listening, which really implies that while you listened, you give your attention, yes, to the words, but you're not thinking while you listen.
00:53:38.000 You're simply aware.
00:53:40.000 So thinking is replaced With awareness.
00:53:44.000 I like that.
00:53:45.000 That is the important shift.
00:53:47.000 Yeah, feeling with sensing and thinking with awareness.
00:53:52.000 Actually, Dan, who's operating the camera also, I do training with Dan and we once did a meditation where he said, move from mental activity to mental awareness, just awareness.
00:54:02.000 It was a nice meditation we did.
00:54:05.000 So, Eckhart, I'm just going to invite now Subhi, who runs our social media here, who's going to, with your permission sir, pass on some of the questions from the people in our community.
00:54:15.000 And to cover this moment, I'll say that one time, I know that I go there and I get there.
00:54:21.000 That story I was describing about seeing the bins and the pigeons and seeing the great sort of playful beauty which I've I experience it intermittently.
00:54:30.000 I experience it.
00:54:32.000 One time I in fact, using you of course as an example, I said to one of my meditation teachers who I love very much, Bobby Roth, who runs the David Lynch Foundation, I said, I get there.
00:54:42.000 I get there sometimes.
00:54:42.000 But I said, sometimes I'm not there in meditation.
00:54:45.000 Sometimes in meditation I'm not there at all.
00:54:46.000 I feel like I am witnessing thoughts.
00:54:49.000 And I said, I feel it sometimes in relationship.
00:54:52.000 And I said, I know Eckhart Tolle.
00:54:55.000 I said, I know he's there all the time.
00:54:57.000 I can tell when I'm talking to him.
00:55:00.000 I want to be there all the time.
00:55:01.000 And he said, for you, Russell, we are not all on the same exact wave.
00:55:07.000 You are going to be a person that you have dharma with people.
00:55:11.000 You have dharma with people.
00:55:12.000 You're going to find it in relationship.
00:55:13.000 You are not going to be in the cave.
00:55:16.000 What does that sound like to you, that bit of information, Eckhart?
00:55:19.000 Yes, it manifests differently to different people because it's like you're the lampshade.
00:55:30.000 The lampshades filter the light in different ways.
00:55:34.000 The light is the same, but then the light shines through the lampshade and gets filtered in different ways.
00:55:39.000 So there's a multiplicity of humans through which the being that's behind the human manifests through the human.
00:55:53.000 For example, spiritual teachings and teachers Zen, I love Zen teachings, the Japanese form of, well, originally Chinese and Japanese form of Buddhist teachings.
00:56:06.000 The Zen teachings are very simple.
00:56:08.000 Again, it's about when I was, many years ago, I was trying to figure out what Zen is all about and through reading books.
00:56:17.000 And then I talked to a Zen monk and he said, oh, it's all quite simple.
00:56:24.000 It's just about stopping thinking.
00:56:28.000 I'm already doing that.
00:56:34.000 I've been, I've actually, a lot of the time I've already, I had this spiritual awakening and my life changed.
00:56:41.000 I became very, very peaceful.
00:56:43.000 And two years after having been so peaceful every day, living in London at the time, I was peaceful even on the Northern Line, which at the time was called the Misery Line.
00:56:56.000 It was so terrible, the subway.
00:56:59.000 But even there I was peaceful.
00:57:02.000 And then when I talked to that Zen monk, he said it's about cessation of thinking.
00:57:09.000 Then I realized that's why I'm so peaceful.
00:57:11.000 I didn't realize that actually my mind was much less active than before.
00:57:16.000 All the superfluous thinking that created so much misery in my life, that had fallen away.
00:57:24.000 So there was already, the amount of thinking I was doing had been reduced by, I don't know, difficultly expressing percentages, 70% or something, less thinking.
00:57:36.000 That's why I felt so peaceful.
00:57:38.000 I could still think, I could do, more than enough left to deal with things, I could still think.
00:57:45.000 In fact, thinking eventually became more focused and more empowered than before.
00:57:52.000 I was able to finally write a book and then another book because my thinking process became more empowered and more focused rather than this random thinking that creates so many absurd problems in one's life, many of which have no actual existence like all thoughts of anxiety for what might happen and all that
00:58:13.000 thing. So the, that's the, it manifests differently.
00:58:21.000 The Zen teachers, many of them, they have a lot of yang energy.
00:58:30.000 They look quite fierce, traditionally, the Zen teachers in Japan.
00:58:35.000 If you look at drawings, of famous Zen teachers they all they look at you like they don't look like some Christian saints so they look or the or even the Buddha itself has this lovely hint of a smile that you see in the some of the Buddha images the Buddha statues that you have the Buddha has a slight hint of a smile just oh the denty just they look at you like
00:59:05.000 Like that, bulging eyes.
00:59:08.000 And they even, as you know, they hit you if you meditate.
00:59:11.000 They have a stick, they go around and they hit you if you see you're nodding off.
00:59:17.000 Some will even slap you.
00:59:19.000 So they have a very young form of teaching.
00:59:24.000 It's not suitable for everybody.
00:59:27.000 Some people hate it.
00:59:30.000 But again, it can manifest in different ways through different people.
00:59:36.000 So it's better not to want to imitate any one human being, even if you think they have a lot to offer.
00:59:45.000 The way in which it manifests through you will be different from the way it manifests through me or another person.
00:59:52.000 Well, you can listen to and watch that full conversation by joining Stay Free AF.
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