00:00:21.000We have got Jamie Winship on the show.
00:00:24.000Jamie Winship is a brilliant teacher, writer, former cop, and fascinating figure who's going to help you to understand your true identity and maybe why your life is so hard, so challenging, and so difficult.
00:00:37.000Before we get into that, remember if you have not got Rumble Premium yet, get Rumble Premium right now.
00:00:43.000In fact, For those of you watching this on Rumble Premium, there will be an extra 30 minutes of content, and it's some of the best stuff you've got to get Rumble Premium.
00:00:55.000Click the link in the description to get that.
00:00:57.000And I have the great honor of telling you that, as well as Jamie's book being available, there's a link in the description.
00:01:02.000Yes, Russell Brand, How to Become a Christian in Seven Days May Take 50 Years of Sin and Serious Fuck Ups to Get Started, is available for pre order.
00:01:30.000I knew that the Jesus of our culture and of our church was not the real truth of Jesus, that there was something deeper, more profound available to you right now.
00:01:40.000If you've got to choose to buy just one book, maybe that one, two, Try that one.
00:01:45.000If you've got time for free, very proud of this book.
00:01:49.000Okay, so as well as me telling you about Jamie Winship, here's an excellent package prepared.
00:02:09.000The way out is to believe about yourself, what God says about you.
00:02:15.000Jamie Winship is a former law enforcement officer who has spent years working in conflict zones, particularly in the Middle East, training and advising local police and communities.
00:02:24.000Today, through his work with Identity Exchange, he helps leaders and individuals identify the fears that drive their decisions and replace them with a clear understanding of who they are, teaching that when identity changes, behavior follows.
00:02:35.000Whatever I'm doing, are the people around me being transformed?
00:02:40.000If they are, I feel like I'm walking in the spirit with God.
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00:04:43.000Lord, thank you for your love for us, your blessings, your forgiveness, your mercy for all humanity.
00:04:50.000And I pray right now for every person listening, watching, Father, that you would work in them transformation that causes them to walk out of the false things they've learned to believe about themselves from the world, from the enemy, even from their own critical voice.
00:05:08.000Walk them out of that through the power of your spirit, through the blood of Christ, into the truth of what you say about them, and that they would walk upright in that true identity with all freedom and authority and power.
00:05:25.000Jamie, like, just so you lot watching know, what happened was someone told me to give my wife, uh, Leaving Fearless, okay, which is one of Jamie's books.
00:05:35.000Um, and I read it while I was finishing my book.
00:05:38.000This is Just to get things in correct order, this is not the book Living Fearless.
00:05:41.000This is Jamie's new book that we'll be talking about today, The War of World Views by Jamie Winship.
00:05:48.000There's a link in the description for those of you that want to order it right now.
00:05:53.000And while I was finishing my book, this is my book, first time I've shown it on the show, I was like reading Jamie's book Living Fearless, and I was like, oh no, this is better than my book while I was reading it.
00:06:48.000And it's been like, we're still sort of, Jamie, you having left day before yesterday, whenever it was, still sort of like, I saw Kyle this morning, our friend Kyle, the shark hunting seminar, seminary attending beekeeping warrior.
00:07:02.000And like, he was like very moved by the time we spent together.
00:07:05.000A lot of people have been really affected by you.
00:07:08.000I love you just actually as a writer, even if you were just writing fictitious stories for entertainment and amusement.
00:08:07.000Well, so like, and we can get into it, but really, basically, whether you're reading the Bible, the Torah, or studying anthropology or just history, there's really only ever been two worldviews put forth by humanity.
00:08:23.000And they have different names, but, you know, Augustine might say city of God and city of man or something like that.
00:08:30.000But really, when you're reading Moses explaining worldview to the Israelites, which is what he's doing in the book of Genesis, he's really saying there's only two worldviews, and they are the separation worldview.
00:08:42.000One is absolutely false and one is absolutely true.
00:08:45.000And so, most of us, most of humans, whatever your background, are raised in the view that the world is separated based on scarcity and that kind of thing.
00:08:56.000And so, we live very separated, isolated lives.
00:08:59.000Even though we have lots of people around us, our worldview is still about separation.
00:09:05.000And then we've got to separate ourselves from all the people we don't like.
00:09:08.000And we've got to get rid of everything that we don't like, we're going to separate ourselves from in some way.
00:09:18.000The other is for humans to live in isolation and separation is death to them, death to humans, because the reality is the whole system that we're in is built on connection.
00:09:31.000It can't be fragmented, it can't be separated and live.
00:09:35.000And so if I'm living my life like the point of my life is self protection and self promotion, I'm living a separated, isolated life.
00:09:44.000And then it's me first, then it's my family next.
00:09:47.000And then, you know, maybe a few friends, but mostly I've got to self protect and self promote myself against a world where there's not enough of anything for everybody.
00:09:58.000In the connection worldview, I'm paying attention to how vital it is that I stay connected at every level with nature, with God, with myself, with others.
00:10:08.000And in that, because in the connection worldview, like in nature, everything depends on everything else, right?
00:10:14.000And no tree is trying to go off and live by itself in a gated community because it can't.
00:10:21.000And so, if you're paying attention to connection, then when you're having, when you're meeting with a person or talking with a person, even a stranger, your question is, in what way is there an invitation here from God to connect at even a deeper level than just, how are you?
00:10:40.000And so, you know, when I come and I've, when I have these sort of distant connections to someone like you through my, someone talking about your podcast or whatever, there's these, I realize that these are all connections.
00:10:55.000And then the connections deepen, not because I'm making them deepen, but because nature, the universe, God is moving them closer together in connection.
00:11:05.000And the closer they come, the more I pay attention to them.
00:11:08.000And so, you know, someone I know sent you a direct message recommending, hey, Russell, when you're referring to identity, this is someone you might want to talk to.
00:11:18.000And then another one of my friends, Picked you up hitchhiking in, you know, one day in Florida.
00:11:27.000And they're like, we're talking to me one day.
00:11:29.000Hey, yeah, we picked up Russell and he was, he's this great guy, really loved him.
00:11:34.000And so, and then, you know, when Jake contacted my assistant, it was all like, okay, wow, this has been building for some time, like just because I'm paying attention to it.
00:11:46.000And so then when you and I finally got to talk, I was already asking God, are you inviting me?
00:11:53.000Into a deeper connection with Russell, not because of celebrity or anything like that, but just because there's some kind of mutual, reciprocal blessing involved if you and I connected a deeper level.
00:12:09.000So immediately I'm willing to come meet with you, as I would be anyone where I felt like God's saying to me, This is an important connection for him, for you, for your family, for his family, for his neighborhood, your neighborhood.
00:12:24.000Because of this morphic resonance that happens.
00:12:27.000And so, why would I want to miss that invitation?
00:12:31.000I like your commitment to God, that your commitment to God is a spiritual program of action.
00:12:38.000A lot of people that I feel I can connect with intimately and quickly may understand addiction in the most literal sense addiction to alcohol and drugs.
00:12:48.000If you are addicted to alcohol and drugs, as I was, you don't have to remind yourself to think about heroin or alcohol.
00:12:56.000In an ongoing discourse with drugs, alcohol, and even if you take that down a level, if you've got an eat in disorder or an obsession with pornography or an obsession with wealth or an obsession with self hatred and negative self talk, it doesn't require prompting.
00:13:11.000You're continually caught up in these negative voices.
00:13:14.000You tell a wonderful story at the beginning of this book about a time you were addressing Harvard University where you explain that, and I won't for a second time mess up the retelling as I did when I told it to my beloved friend Joe, who's also on the podcast with us on occasion.
00:13:30.000What I was Say, is that through our encounter, an idea that I'd felt because I think, you know, as you say, with the sublime and holy truth of God's Son, there are myriad routes via which He will communicate, whether that's culturally, temporally, in the faith of Islam or in the Vedic traditions.
00:13:52.000I'm a Christian explicitly and devoutly, I'm a follower of Christ Jesus, but I know that He has millions and billions, infinite ways of communicating.
00:14:00.000So there are cultural ways of communicating, then there's a personal way, it's like we discussed when my beloved dog. Died, I realized he is a shepherd.
00:14:07.000And I looked at it as I was burying him, or my friends were doing their spade work, Kyle among them, actually, and Nikki's husband.
00:14:13.000Like, I wasn't doing the actual digging, I should clarify that.
00:14:16.000But like, I noticed that I was wearing a Lord, the Lord is my shepherd, like, sort of top.
00:14:22.000And I thought, oh my God, he's a shepherd.
00:14:24.000He does make me walk by, lay down in green pastures and sit by still waters.
00:14:36.000So there are so many ways and infinite ways that God might communicate.
00:14:39.000Most important, I think, is to recognize that there is the opportunity for continual unending communication with God within the most intimate temple of your own being.
00:14:48.000And you really helped me under understand that Jamie on that visit.
00:14:52.000What do you say about these voices and this sort of quality of inner voices, negative and positive?
00:14:58.000Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely right.
00:15:00.000And so, one thing that I talk about, and you and I talked about, and I think it's what the scriptures are saying, is that we know that what sets people free, what sets humans free, is knowing and experiencing truth, right?
00:15:17.000So, when we read that in the scriptures, it doesn't say knowing and experiencing Christian truth or knowing and experiencing Quranic truth.
00:15:24.000There's not an ownership of the truth, it's the truth, right?
00:15:28.000And so, when you're talking about all the ways that God can communicate with us, what God's always Communicating to us is what is true.
00:15:35.000And so, when I'm with a group of people, like the Harvard example or wherever, whatever, even if the, and I did this yesterday with a group, is whether that group believes, I also am a Christ follower very devoutly and clearly.
00:15:50.000Whether that group believes in Christ or the Bible doesn't matter.
00:15:54.000My question to them is, we're going to talk about what's true.
00:15:56.000And so I'm going to ask you a question right now.
00:15:58.000And all I want you to do is tell me the truth.
00:16:03.000If you can hear a voice inside of your head or heart somewhere that's telling you you're a disaster, you're a terrible parent, you know, you suck, you're a fraud, and everyone raises their hand.
00:16:19.000So we all agree right at the beginning, whatever our tradition is, is that we can hear voices inside of us, inside of our head that are external from us.
00:16:49.000So we're all agreeing that we can all hear voices, and the voices that we're hearing, or listening to, or paying attention to are telling us that we're failures and we're unworthy.
00:17:01.000But the voice, a voice that would tell us, You're amazing, you're connected, you're never alone, you're never powerless.
00:17:15.000And so, because of just knowing that, then my challenge to the person is okay, well, what if we turn down the voice that's negative and turn up the voice that is there that is telling you the truth of who you are?
00:17:29.000How liberating that would be and how empowering and how much fear that would take away if you could hear that voice.
00:17:36.000And I give the example of when I was a rookie police officer and I'm in the car with my training officer, the troll, the beloved troll.
00:17:44.000And he says to me, you've got to be able to hear your number when they call you, your unit number on the radio.
00:18:28.000But that's the point is not the point is they were, they have called you.
00:18:32.000But you haven't trained your ear to listen to that voice, but you can hear every other voice.
00:18:38.000So, the discipline is how do I train or how do I be mentored?
00:18:43.000Because it takes mentoring to turn down all the voices I've heard my whole life you're a loser and something's wrong with you.
00:18:50.000Turn those voices down and listen to the other voice that's been talking the whole time.
00:18:56.000But you say it wasn't speaking, not because it wasn't speaking, because you didn't hear it.
00:19:03.000So, we're going to turn down the negative voices and turn up and focus in on the voice of the one who loved you, who's always loved you, who's never left you or forsaken you.
00:19:14.000And we're going to learn how to listen to that voice.
00:19:17.000So, the dispute is not can we hear voices?
00:19:21.000The dispute is whether or not there's a voice that's loved you the whole time and created you and wants to guide you.
00:19:27.000Jamie, I want to confess something to you.
00:19:29.000Obviously, we're saying this to an audience, and hopefully, this will be seen at various points by my prayer, is millions of people.
00:19:35.000I want to confess that sometimes I. Feel like I'm doing the voice of negativity to other people.
00:19:42.000Like I'm doing the negative voice to maybe Jake, who I love, or my wife, who I love, or people I work with, or maybe even my children, who I completely, you know, would die for in a heartbeat.
00:19:53.000And I think I'm doing the work of that negative voice.
00:19:59.000We're talking to an audience now of people that I don't want them to experience no more of that negativity from me.
00:20:05.000I want to be a conduit And amplifier of the voice within them that is telling them that they are beautiful, that they are enough, that they are loved.
00:20:25.000And so, I mean, I was with some guys yesterday, you know, pretty serious people and not very open to emotional, Christian y kind of stuff.
00:20:35.000And I was asking them, when you were growing up, you heard certain voices that made you fearful and doubtful in your life.
00:20:43.000What were the tell me, tell me what those voices said?
00:20:46.000And one of the men said, He's a successful guy.
00:20:49.000He said, I've never really thought about it, but I, but I guess the main voice I heard was the times my dad, my dad, who loved me, would call me a dumbass, jokingly, you know.
00:21:00.000And he said, But now that you're asking me that question, that's what I feel like.
00:21:05.000That's what I feel like, even though I'm successful, but deep down, I still feel like that because that's what was spoken into me.
00:21:12.000And in my own life, you know, you're a disappointment.
00:21:14.000So that's spoken into us and a person can't give away what they don't have, but they, but they will give away what they do have.
00:21:24.000And so, no matter what, what's going to come out of that guy.
00:21:27.000And the reason I was talking to him was because of the conflict he's involved in, is because every time someone says to him, Hey, like we could do this better, all he hears is you're a dumbass.
00:22:51.000You can't serve Him unless He serves you first.
00:22:55.000Man, I think about those geniuses in AA, just sorry to interrupt you, but like in the 12 steps, Like the first 10 steps are really about, well, the first six steps, evaluating yourselves.
00:23:05.000Then there's some steps about making amends to people you've harmed to set things straight.
00:23:10.000Then step 11, increase and improve through prayer and meditation, our conscious contact with God.
00:23:15.000Step 12, carry the message, practice these principles in all your affairs, help others, go become a servant.
00:23:21.000So the highest calling you can get is to become a servant of God, to receive what he's given you.
00:23:27.000And it's not going to go back into, unless you're particularly called into sort of meditation, prayer worship, monasticism, mendicantism, you're mostly going to be going, Output transcript Outward in service and like our Lord, putting Himself among those who needed Him most the broken, the wounded, the hurt, the people that were most, I guess, in the material world, whether that's anchored, pulled down by their sexuality or by materialism and systems, bureaucratic, empire oriented systems.
00:24:06.000Like, I started to realize prior to reading.
00:24:08.000Your book, I'm like, I'm programmed that there's certain things, certain stimulants that they would switch off my awareness.
00:24:17.000In fact, yesterday after you'd gone, I was like, I was feeling very in the presence of the Lord, and I was like, I could moment to moment, stimulant by stimulant, identify, no, don't go down there, don't do that, you know, like just with interactions, no, don't stare, don't be silly, don't be.
00:24:34.000And then the thought occurred, I wonder what it will be that will take me out of this.
00:24:39.000And back into the kind of unconscious false identity.
00:26:02.000Deal with the lie and the fear goes away.
00:26:05.000It's almost like the opposite of what people say if the finger is pointing to the moon and we asphyxiate on the finger.
00:26:12.000People say that in a positive way, don't they?
00:26:14.000Instead of focusing on God, we infatuate on the false idolatry, maybe of the carrier of the message, for example, or the nature of the church, or the doctrine, or the dogma.
00:26:25.000But you're saying there's an inversion too, that fear is a gift.
00:26:31.000My friend Gavin DeBecker, in fact, wrote a book called The Gift of Fear.
00:26:34.000And the gift of fear would be pay attention, pay attention.
00:27:08.000Yeah, so, so, I mean, Hebrews chapter five, one of my favorite passages where, where it's talking about Jesus praying in the garden, Hebrews chapter five, especially in the amplified translation.
00:27:19.000It says, with loud crying and groanings and loud tears, Jesus called out to the one who was able to save him up and out of death because he was horrified by the, by the idea of being separated from the glory of Christ, Hebrews chapter five.
00:27:35.000So if you ask in that passage in the Garden of Gethsemane, if you ask Jesus, Why is he sweating blood?
00:29:06.000He says, Don't be afraid because what they're afraid of is that what's going to happen to them is what happened to Jesus and they're going to get killed and they're going to lose and the whole thing's a failure.
00:29:16.000And he's saying, Don't be afraid of that.
00:29:19.000Be afraid of locking yourselves in a room away from God.
00:29:24.000Be afraid of isolating yourselves into separation and isolation.
00:29:30.000And so you and I talked about this too, you know, because I went through recovery myself.
00:29:35.000And I was telling you that I would pray, as you rightfully said, I didn't have to wake up and say, Wow, how shall I think about alcohol today?
00:29:42.000It was like, I've got to get to it as fast as I can.
00:30:30.000I think there's something that seems very familiar to me, Jamie, in my own life, in this kind of sense of real irony that the thing that they fear, they are implementing.
00:30:41.000Implementing through their fearful actions because the true fear is separation from God, and the actions that fear has led them to take is to separate them from God.
00:30:49.000Now, I've got a lot of experience of that in my own life where I feel fear, and then the thing I do is manifest it.
00:30:59.000Now, does this do you sense the presence of the enemy in this, the enemy and the evil one?
00:31:05.000Because even though I recognize, Jamie, that you know, we have to be men of our generation and use the language that's appropriate for our generation, that there is some kind of supernatural.
00:31:16.000Component at work here if we, through the very fear that God gives us to lead us to Him, instantiate parts of the empire, counterfeit empire of the fallen one.
00:31:36.000And the lie is always right here, it's always here.
00:31:40.000And so, even when Jesus is going through the temptation successfully, you know, it says that Satan, the liar, went away and waited for a more opportune time, not gone forever.
00:31:50.000It's like, oh no, oh no, the lie will always be there to be embraced, always.
00:31:58.000And so, that's no matter how tightly we abide.
00:32:43.000So we call this moving the enemy from behind you to in front of you.
00:32:46.000So the idea is like when a person is triggered by something, they believe something that was taught to them or said about them from their past that's living in them as true in the present, it's coming from behind them.
00:33:00.000When you experience transformation in Christ and Christ in you, the hope of glory, and the old has passed away and the new has come, it's taking away the lie from the past.
00:33:12.000So, as you mature and you develop, you'll be able to go back into memories with Christ, who will redeem the moments in your past that cursed you.
00:34:04.000There is now no condemnation in the past.
00:34:06.000So that means when I go back there and I did all of these things because I believed all these lies about myself, when I go back there with Jesus, then I can walk through this same incident with him talking to me the whole time instead of my dad or the abuser.
00:34:22.000It's him talking to me, and he takes the fracture and the fragmentation that happened in that horrible moment and he remembers it.
00:34:32.000He puts it all back together in a way that's true.
00:34:35.000And this allows me to forgive the people in the past.
00:34:39.000It allows me to forgive myself, right?
00:34:42.000And then it allows, so the enemy, this is how we tactically talk about it, can no longer attack me from the past.
00:34:50.000He still will, but now he has to come from the front, right?
00:35:19.000And so if I'm in a, you know, Donna says something to me that triggers me, I'm like, there it is.
00:35:25.000What she said, you know, is there another way you could have disciplined our son there?
00:35:31.000Instead of hearing, oh, I'm a disappointment as a parent, and then reacting against all of that with anger and defensiveness and fear, I can go, wow.
00:35:40.000Boy, the enemy, right when she said that, the enemy is right there going, You know what that means, your disappointment.
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00:39:24.000The point that outside of their tradition, there is a high priest that appears in their history outside of Levitical tradition, i.e., even from outside, I guess, because Hebrews is one might imagine addressed to Hebrew people, letting them know that there is something beyond the limitations of their tradition and that Christ is of that tradition.
00:39:45.000Now, C.S. Lewis, he in his book Great Divorce seems to be espousing two key ideas, as far as I can say, and I'm not suggesting this is the final now in the coughing of analyzing any of C.S. Lewis's great works, but I would say.
00:39:58.000One thing he plainly says, literally, is like when you look back at your life, if you accept the Lord, you will see that it was all heaven, that it was all coaching you into this state.
00:40:08.000If you reject the Lord, then you will look back and see it all as purgatorial in all of its greyness and drabness, as excellently depicted in that book by C.S. Lewis.
00:40:16.000Notable, too, given the nature of your work, my friend and teacher, is that the problems those people have, the individual case studies in this visit to heaven, as explained in The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis, Is each one of them unwilling to let go of their identity?
00:40:32.000The ones that are unwilling to let go of their worldly identity cannot receive heaven.
00:40:39.000I'd like to offer you this too from the Maharabhata, specifically, I think, in the Bhagavad Gita.
00:40:43.000The warrior Arjuna, who does rightly choose Krishna, Christ, to be at his side in the battle, and is told, you know, this battle's already done.
00:41:10.000He puts it all back together in that moment.
00:41:11.000And finally, one time while making a movie, this dude on the movie had worked for Rupert Murdoch.
00:41:19.000Rupert Murdoch is the Australian media magnate, owner of much of News International at different times Fox News, Sun newspaper, Times in the UK, lots.
00:41:28.000He's a big, big, powerful dude and he's going strong at 93 years and four marriages in.
00:41:33.000I said to this guy way back 20 years ago, whatever, when I was making this movie, can you tell me something about Rupert Murdoch?
00:41:39.000You know, I was kind of fascinated by him because, as a British Person, I've seen the impact of his media empire on British culture, and it's not a good one, I would say, largely.
00:41:48.000And he goes, Yeah, Reuben Murdoch lives like he's never gonna die, like as if death doesn't apply to him.
00:41:55.000So if something doesn't go his way, he's like, He waits for a more opportune moment.
00:42:01.000And I note that there is something Luciferian often in these oligarchical figures.
00:42:07.000These magnates, a while ago, were strewn in the world of mass print media.
00:42:13.000Now, We have a new oligarchical class.0.80
00:42:17.000They're sort of carrying that false arc of false counterfeit knowledge together.
00:42:22.000And I note that they have an extraordinary fascination with not dying.
00:42:26.000With like, don't worry, you'll be able to download your consciousness into a thing and we'll all live forever and we'll take this supplement and that supplement.
00:42:36.000But like what I would say is that this fixation with God's domain and entering into his domain, creating great knowledge bases, false omniscience, false omnipresence, false omnipotence is a, The hallmark of the evil one, the hallmark of the empire.
00:42:53.000I wonder, Jamie, how do each of us demark our particular assignments in the kingdom?
00:43:05.000I mean, you have a very extraordinary backstory, and of course, it's a matter of public record that you were a police officer and a police officer that excelled in unusual ways.
00:43:15.000But I was very curious about why you found yourself spending so much time in Middle Eastern countries working.
00:43:43.000The whole thing that they're doing is this denial of mortality and fallibility and all the stuff that's real in a connected worldview.
00:43:51.000And so, to me, it all comes down to identity.
00:43:54.000I think this is what the scriptures are about from the very beginning when God names Adam and Eve and then he gives them the power to name.
00:44:03.000That's what he gives them the authority to do to name, to give identity to nature, to creation.
00:44:35.000And so when I'm a You know, rookie police officer, and you're out there, and we're like, if we could just put people in this kind of housing, or if we none of that transforms the person, what transforms the person is identity.
00:44:47.000Once the person understands the truth of who God says that they are, it's like the Apostle Paul says in Philippians, he says, People say I'm imprisoned, and they're ashamed because I'm in prison.
00:44:59.000I'm not in prison, I'm encased in Christ.
00:45:02.000That's what he says I'm encased in Christ.
00:45:04.000And so, his identity doesn't come from the circumstances around him.
00:45:08.000Or his vocation, it comes, he brings his identity into the circumstances and into his vocation.
00:45:14.000So then, identity for me is, you know, I wanted to be a police officer.
00:45:40.000So, when I got into the police department, I knew that I was bringing my identity into the vocation, which allowed me the freedom to make decisions even if I lost my job.
00:45:52.000So, a person who gets their identity from what they do, what they have, and what people think about them are absolutely imprisoned their whole life.
00:46:02.000And so, identity to me was like, this gives me the freedom to, if God invites me to do something and it's counter to my vocation or, you know, the general orders or something like that, I can weigh it and say, What's more important, this person that I'm talking to or my job, which is one of the stories I tell in that book there.
00:46:23.000And so once I understood identity, then started to understand my identity, and my identity happens to be identity is interesting.
00:46:34.000God speaks at identity generally, and then he becomes more and more specific.
00:46:39.000So he might say to a person, Your identity is you are beloved.
00:46:44.000Unless a person really understands and accepts that they're loved by God, they won't go any further to receive anything from God that he offers them.
00:46:52.000Well, so I'm calling you a mighty man of valor.
00:46:55.000Yeah, but I don't think you'd love me.
00:46:56.000So why would I believe that I'm a mighty man of valor?
00:48:02.000Then when you start to understand that my identity in the kingdom, this is from Mark chapter four, is God refers to me as an untire of knots.
00:48:21.000But each Child has a distinct identity, just like in our family.
00:48:25.000So once I get, once I understand that, and this is what we're always walking people into this process of understanding their own unique identity, it says the identity is so, as Isaiah says, that you will know that you are mine.
00:48:39.000I'm giving you this name so that not so you can do stuff for me, but so that you will know that you are mine.
00:48:45.000Like your little kids, you know, when you say their names, and I love the way you talk to them, what you're telling them is you belong to me.
00:49:23.000And so what happens to them, and I've watched this in the short time I was with your kids, I watch vocationally what they do because of their identity, these attractions towards certain actions and nature and drawing, it's because that's their identity expressing itself.
00:49:43.000And so as a parent, You're trying to help them, along with you, identify that the identity God has given them.
00:49:52.000You're helping them identify it and walk in it and learn not to be afraid of it or to reject it or to believe other identities that the world's going to call them and give them.
00:50:03.000That's what good parenting is teaching a kid how to hear from God and know their identity.
00:50:08.000If they can hear from God well and they understand their identity, you can put them in any situation in the future and they'll be fine.0.94
00:50:17.000But Christian parents can't do it because those kids can't hear from God and they don't know their identity.1.00
00:50:23.000So, we've got to take them away, put them over here, keep them over here, keep them away from everybody else.1.00
00:50:30.000We can't throw them into the dark real world because they won't be able to stand.
00:50:35.000All they'll be able to do is to try and make the whole rest of the world just like themselves, which means they'll become its dominant theology.
00:50:43.000If I can just dominate everything, then everyone will have to be like me.
00:51:22.000But when we're together, I'm untying their knots and she's giving their, it's like a double infusion.
00:51:27.000And when you have five identities together with a people group, you have five different identities pouring their identities into this people, and it allows them the freedom to become who they are.
00:52:15.000So you can give them the gift of your identity.
00:52:18.000And from that, they can discover their own identity.
00:52:21.000That's what makes it transformational.
00:52:23.000Otherwise, it's just a podcast or whatever.
00:52:26.000So when I go in there and I would say, you know, we break up the fight, you know, all that.
00:52:31.000But when I'm with the person and I start to say to them, look, I'm a police officer, but really what I'm here for is to give you the give my, here's my, tell me what you're afraid of.
00:52:40.000Like, what are you afraid of in the situation that you're in?
00:52:42.000And help them untie knots that they don't even know they have.
00:52:46.000The beauty of that is when a police officer does something like that, you don't just stop the domestic dispute for tonight.
00:52:54.000You can end it forever for that person.
00:53:10.000You know, because untie of knots, that's a very good.
00:53:12.000Position like a good vocation to approach from because the person's in a kind of crisis mode, and like so, they're very good position to receive that wisdom.
00:53:22.000I was just thinking about this Our Lord, I knit you together in your mother's womb.
00:53:28.000The fallen one ties the knots, makes you into a new pattern, conforms you to the pattern of the world.
00:53:35.000The fallen one, because the reason it's hard to untie people's knots is they think they are the knot that you think they think you're undoing the truth of who they are, they're living in a counter.
00:53:45.000Fit identity, a sort of a facsimile identity that's been woven into him.
00:53:48.000In the sense you were here, you know, because I chatted to Joe, who's on one of our podcasts with us.
00:53:55.000You know, while I wanted to do it with Joe, my best version of what I've seen you do with people with Joe, so that you could see me do it.
00:54:03.000Then I like, and you said it was good.
00:54:05.000So, like, I felt empowered to carry on.
00:54:07.000Then, when I was with like a friend of the family, like, there was this lady, and like, funny enough, she did do it exactly how you just described.
00:54:15.000Firstly, she said a generic identity, daughter of God.
00:56:05.000Like, uh, when I was, you know, obviously it's different when you're talking to a child, and because a child won't know how to communicate to you, they won't know how to, but I was feeling.
00:56:16.000Like, she was angry about not being able to find an item of clothing, but item of clothing is identity.
00:56:25.000That technicolor dream coat's got some work to do.
00:56:28.000Like, you know, and I felt like I was able, just by being with her and by allowing the Lord, like, before she was making her way up, I was like, you handle this, Lord.
00:56:54.000And I said, You don't need me, by the way, to get that.
00:56:56.000You have your own access, your own access, not via me to God.
00:57:02.000And then we just played and we were just talking about dumb stuff.
00:57:05.000And she just wanted to stay there, carrying on doing it.
00:57:07.000You know, like all of our parents, they make those errors.
00:57:10.000They give us those synecdoche identities that they casually flick on you because, you know, the great poet, the British poet Philip Larkin wrote, They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
00:57:24.000They give you all the faults they had and some extra just for you, but they in turn were fucked up to by fools in old style hats and coats.
00:57:59.000And you're really doing an amazing job of bringing clarity.
00:58:03.000And one of the other things I'm learning is how to manage this space because, you know, I do have the zeal of the newly converted as a person that came to Christ early, you know.
00:58:14.000And I wonder how to manage that language, Jamie.
00:58:17.000I wonder how to, you know, I'm from a country that, you know, I know I'm going to be spending more time in soon where there is a lot of dispute around identity, the identity of the United Kingdom, the role of the Muslim population, the tension.0.84
00:58:32.000As people stop believing in God and stop, it seems, believing in anything.
00:58:37.000Even the whole country has an identity crisis because Great Britain is no longer the imprature of empire.
00:58:45.000Whoever that was has migrated to US power, whoever's carrying out those counterfeit empire versions of power.
00:58:53.000And I wonder how you propose we conduct this conversation with a variety of communities that seem to be positioned to, for example, I take the working class British.0.82
00:59:05.000And Muslims, there's this idea that they should be in continual conflict, and that's really getting a lot of pace at the moment.
00:59:36.000So in those situations, that's really where we kind of learned what we've learned.
00:59:41.000It was in the Middle East, in those Islamic, Christian, Jewish conflicts.
00:59:48.000And the only way that we could figure out how to do it was like what I learned as a police officer is when you go into that, into a room with, it was interesting when they put Arab Muslim little kids with Israeli kids in a kindergarten, they made friends immediately and they could begin, they started to develop their own way of communicating back and forth with a mixture of Arabic and Hebrew.
01:00:13.000They just could figure it out because they connect.
01:00:16.000That's what they'll do as children, they'll connect.
01:00:19.000Because they haven't learned yet that you're not allowed to connect with that person.
01:00:24.000So at first they just connect and they're very, and there's all these, it's like amazing how they get along together until about third or fourth grade and then they'll start separating.
01:00:34.000And when you figure out, like, why were they such good mates, you know, playing on the playground and everything up until third grade, it's because the parents hadn't taught them the fear of the other one yet.