Stay Free - Russel Brand - From Curb Your Enthusiasm to Courage — Cheryl Hines on Hollywood, RFK Jr. & Speaking Out - SF646

00:00:09.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Brand and Russell Russell Brand trying to bring real journalism to the American people.

00:00:19.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:00:20.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:00:22.000 What a fantastic show it is.

00:00:24.000 It's an interview with Cheryl Hines, a person I've known for a little while as a result of being friends with Secretary Kennedy.

00:00:30.000 And I've been a fan of her for a long, long, long time, actually, because I love Kirby's enthusiasm.

00:00:38.000 One of the things about being a person that's operating in the entertainment industry is it's really weird to sort of reorganize your opinions and perspectives on people that you've liked for a long while.

00:00:46.000 For example, say Larry David.

00:00:47.000 I love Larry David.

00:00:48.000 I think he's really funny.

00:00:49.000 And I also actually thought it was funny when he wrote that My Dinner with Hitler about Bill Maher going to visit Trump.

00:00:55.000 I thought that was funny.

00:00:56.000 One of the things I'm trying to understand is how is it that we operate now in a space where you either hate everyone on this side of the aisle or love everyone on that side of the aisle and on the right there's endless fracturing candidates don't like this person, Jordan Peterson don't like that.

00:01:10.000 But I mean it's like that's why I feel like Christianity has got to be at the forefront. 0.60

00:01:15.000 Now think about the pivotal recent event, the murder of Charlie Kirk and how that seems to have further fractured the space.

00:01:22.000 Do you think, let me know in the comments and chat that over time Charlie Kirk was moving more and more into his faith in Christianity as the guiding ideal above his Republicanism.

00:01:30.000 When I took place, took part in a turning point event over in Oklahoma, what I thought was really interesting is one American Indian, I don't mean in a Pocahontas way, I mean India as in curries and that way, he said, I'm an American Indian, you know, look, you know what I mean, don't you?

00:01:47.000 Anyway, he said that his Hinduism for closed his full participation in Sangalak turning point.

00:01:54.000 And I said, well, look, the Christianity is really what I believe in.

00:01:57.000 I know like most of you are probably right-wing and most of you are probably Republican.

00:02:01.000 And I'm certainly not a Democrat person.

00:02:02.000 In fact, I'm English.

00:02:03.000 I'm not involved in any of this stuff.

00:02:05.000 What I believe in is the power of the Lord and the power of the Lord to change things.

00:02:09.000 And that's what we're advocating for in this show.

00:02:11.000 Whether or not that's where you are right now, what I'm interested in is how, as I've learned more and more about Christ, it aligns completely with, and supersedes, obviously, what I'd learned previously from a new age perspective, a Vedic perspective, a drug addict perspective.

00:02:27.000 In fact, just today, I was reading Ezekiel, the opening chapters of Ezekiel.

00:02:32.000 And he's describing what sounds to me like a UFO encounter, right, pretty vividly.

00:02:38.000 And I remember hearing about that when I was much more into doing acid and, you know, and extraterrestrials and counterculture from a new perspective.

00:02:47.000 A perspective now that seems somewhat jaded, although it's been further illustrated by the likes of David Icke, who was someone I was into when I was a kid, and Alex Jones and other folk.

00:02:57.000 You know, what I'm saying is, is that Christianity is a belief system that can encompass whatever it is you're trying to understand and appreciate, and that Christianity probably, I reckon, like everything, is going to go through some interesting revisions, although God is the Alpha and the Omega, the same in the beginning of time and before time as he is now and ever shall be, to quote from the Catholic Glory B prayer.

00:03:17.000 So what I'm trying to bring to the work that we're doing now is my own raw, honest, authentic, in-the-moment experience of getting to know Christ.

00:03:28.000 I'm writing about it.

00:03:29.000 I'm going to be performing in Austin.

00:03:31.000 In fact, there's a link here.

00:03:32.000 Come see me at the Vulcan gas station.

00:03:35.000 Gas bar, gas powerhouse, company.

00:03:38.000 Gas company in Austin, where I will be talking about Coming to the Lord in my show.

00:03:43.000 A funny thing happened on the way on my way to church.

00:03:48.000 I'll be doing that.

00:03:49.000 I've not written it yet, but like, my God, I've lived it.

00:03:52.000 And you can come and see me.

00:03:54.000 Let me know which of the snow songs you're most looking forward to seeing me sing at that show.

00:04:01.000 I'll see you there.

00:04:02.000 Click the link in the description.

00:04:03.000 If you don't have Rumble Premium yet, get Rumble Premium right now.

00:04:06.000 It means you get more content from me, Dave Rubin.

00:04:09.000 You get the Mud Club off Crowder. 0.98

00:04:10.000 You get stuff from Glenn Greenwald, who's, you know, in terms of journalistic integrity, I don't think there's anyone better than him on Rumble or anywhere, as a matter of fact.

00:04:18.000 You'll learn more and you, you know, Rumble's crazy.

00:04:20.000 The world's crazy now, isn't it?

00:04:22.000 Like, look at the internet.

00:04:22.000 The whole thing's about war.

00:04:24.000 But here, you do have access to some brilliant content creators.

00:04:28.000 And I hope that you will support us if you can.

00:04:32.000 Now, this is the thing I really want to tell you.

00:04:34.000 Cheryl is interesting, Cheryl Hines, because she's like a, I think she's like a working-class woman, you know, grown, grow, grew up in Florida, got into acting and stuff, and then got with Bobby Kennedy.

00:04:46.000 And imagine she's just like with this Kennedy, I mean, kind of exciting.

00:04:49.000 He's a lawyer, an environmental lawyer, and all that.

00:04:51.000 Then he runs for independent president, well, president as an independent candidate.

00:04:55.000 And suddenly she's in a world of chaos and pain.

00:04:57.000 The best story she told me was this one.

00:05:00.000 It's in the book later in the book.

00:05:02.000 And if I'd done my research properly, I would have read the book, but you know, it's just, I don't know, look at me.

00:05:08.000 So, anyway, in the book, if you get it, her book, Cheryl, Cheryl Hines' book that she's written on this subject, which is called Unscripted, in her book, she talks about how when she first met Trump, she broke out in hives prior to the event.

00:05:23.000 She told me this story, not in the podcast, because I forgot to ask, but she told me in real life, and I loved it.

00:05:29.000 What she said was that before she met Trump, she's like, oh my God, it was at the RNC in Milwaukee, where Trump and Kennedy are meeting to talk about the alliance that subsequently happened.

00:05:38.000 Is he going to be vice president?

00:05:39.000 What's it going to happen?

00:05:40.000 How's this all going to work out?

00:05:41.000 Well, we know how it's all going to work out now.

00:05:43.000 But she's a person from Hollywood, knowing she's going to meet Trump for the first time.

00:05:46.000 She goes to some hotel room in Milwaukee.

00:05:48.000 I don't know what hotel.

00:05:49.000 I didn't see Trump other than from the stage or whatever the whole time I was in Milwaukee at the RNC.

00:05:54.000 Anyway, she meets him in some hotel room.

00:05:56.000 They sat around a coffee table.

00:05:57.000 And Bobby Kennedy, if you know him or have watched him, that dude can talk.

00:06:00.000 I know he has like vocal difficulty, but really he can talk.

00:06:03.000 Like he chats and chats and chats.

00:06:05.000 He's a racon tour.

00:06:06.000 Apparently, Trump sits down next to her and she's like feeling like, oh my god, this is Trump.

00:06:09.000 I'm meeting Trump and I've like come from this background, Larry David in Hollywood and all this stuff.

00:06:13.000 What's he going to be like?

00:06:14.000 And like he sat next to her and like Bobby Kennedy's talking maybe about, I don't know, who knows what he's talking about.

00:06:18.000 Let me know in the comments and chat.

00:06:19.000 He's talking about vaccines.

00:06:20.000 He's talking about health.

00:06:21.000 He's talking about doing pull-ups.

00:06:22.000 Who knows what he's talking about?

00:06:23.000 But just while Kennedy is like riffing and proselytizing and racing touring, Trump, apropos of nothing, just sort of nudges her and goes, I don't mind his voice.

00:06:37.000 I don't mind his voice.

00:06:41.000 When I hear those kind of things about Trump, I think, who is this man?

00:06:45.000 What level does he operate on?

00:06:47.000 A bit like when he was at the UN and he talked for ages and ages about grout and marble tiles and building techniques from the perspective of someone that had tried to win that contract when he was in the construction game in New York City to make the UN building in New York there opposite the Wardorf Astoria.

00:07:02.000 Many years ago, a very successful real estate developer in New York, known as Donald J. Trump, I bid on the renovation and rebuilding of this very United Nations complex.

00:07:16.000 I remember it so well.

00:07:18.000 I said at the time that I would do it for $500 million, rebuilding everything.

00:07:23.000 It would be beautiful.

00:07:24.000 I used to talk about I'm going to give you Marlborough floors.

00:07:28.000 They're going to give you Terraza.

00:07:30.000 And I was like, yeah, man, there's war between Israel and Palestine.

00:07:33.000 There's war, Russia, Ukraine.

00:07:36.000 The world's complicated.

00:07:37.000 He's talked about it for so long.

00:07:40.000 It fascinates me.

00:07:41.000 The world fascinates me.

00:07:43.000 People fascinate me.

00:07:46.000 As far as I'm concerned, frankly, looking at the building and getting stuck in the escalator, they still haven't finished the job.

00:07:55.000 Obviously, Cheryl Hines has been in the public eye for a long time, mostly as a comedian and actor.

00:08:00.000 And she's got stories about Larry Davies, she's got stories about Robin Williams.

00:08:03.000 But I really liked her recent appearance on The View, where she was able to competently defend her husband's position.

00:08:11.000 In our conversation, in a minute, that you'll see, she talks about like she didn't say to any of the women on The View, let's talk about your husband.

00:08:17.000 And isn't it funny that a show like The View, which positions itself as kind of de facto progressive and feminist, when it comes to it, will just talk to a woman about their husband. 0.52

00:08:26.000 You know, there's like a screenplay writing law, which I bet Massey knows about.

00:08:30.000 That's like, if you write a film and you don't have at least a moment where two female characters talk about something other than a man they're involved with, it doesn't pass a particular test.

00:08:41.000 I think I've seen jokes about it on Rick and Morty, otherwise I wouldn't know about it.

00:08:44.000 Morty, do you know what the Bechdell test is?

00:08:46.000 For God's sake, Morty, the formula for measuring female agency in a story proposed by lesbian cartoonist Allison. 1.00

00:08:51.000 What the hell are they teaching you in that school? 0.99

00:08:52.000 Mother stuff! 1.00

00:08:53.000 Then you've killed us both. 1.00

00:08:54.000 Why is lesbian part of her job title? 1.00

00:08:56.000 Now you're progressive.

00:08:58.000 It's called the Bechdell test, where in order to qualify, say, as feminist or even just not sexist literature, you have to have two female characters talking at some point about saying other than a man.

00:09:08.000 And they would fail it.

00:09:10.000 And they'd be the kind of people that would say that they support it.

00:09:13.000 That's one of the things about progressivism that's irksome, it doesn't believe in its own tokens and emblems.

00:09:20.000 In fact, the word token is better than the word emblem because token is a gesture and emblem is a symbol.

00:09:26.000 So let's have a look at this moment where Cheryl spoke to the members of the View cast and see how it went down. 0.97

00:09:32.000 And let me know in the comments and chat before we get to the interview itself how you felt Cheryl handled it. 1.00

00:09:37.000 When you say that they are pro a vaccine, it seems as though Bobby and Trump are casting doubt on the efficacy of the vaccine, which makes Americans very nervous.

00:09:47.000 So that's the problem that we'll have.

00:09:48.000 Yeah, I understand that.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, I understand that.

00:09:51.000 And it's interesting because I don't know if you saw 60 Minutes just did a piece about the vaccine injury compensation program.

00:10:03.000 Yeah.

00:10:03.000 So people that have had vaccine injuries can be compensated if they can prove it.

00:10:10.000 And they have paid out $5.4 billion for vaccine injuries.

00:10:15.000 So my question is, can we do better?

00:10:18.000 Do we?

00:10:19.000 Is that all vaccines or just the COVID vaccine?

00:10:22.000 It's all vaccines.

00:10:23.000 It's all vaccines.

00:10:24.000 Look at Whoopi Goldberg going to bat for Big Farmer.

00:10:27.000 Yeah, but that's all vaccines.

00:10:29.000 Honey, that's no problem.

00:10:30.000 There's vaccines since time began.

00:10:32.000 There's people that were getting vaccines in the Civil War from George Washington that should be remunerated on that basis.

00:10:39.000 So it's fascinating that the default position is to defend the establishment.

00:10:45.000 As surely as their production model includes a QR code which demonstrates how they've evolved to be expert and functional at selling commodities.

00:10:54.000 Don't use that QR code, by the way, when you buy Cheryl's book, because otherwise the View will go, we are able to say that our guests sell this many books.

00:11:02.000 What we want is you to use this QR code that sells the book and then people will realize independent media is more effective at selling commodities even than their filthy propagandist stinking model and they will experience the decay and decline that is surely their legacy lord.

00:11:19.000 So buy it from us, not from her.

00:11:22.000 So what I'm saying is that what that is, the view, is a show that sells products.

00:11:28.000 In a way, our show is a show that sells products.

00:11:30.000 But hopefully you can tell and feel that we have got nothing to hide, that we are viscerally raw and open and candid and totally real.

00:11:40.000 And what I want to say mostly about that view and her being on it, Cheryl, I mean by her, is it's a unique situation because the view tends to churn people that are safe.

00:11:49.000 Once in a while, you'll see someone like Norm MacDonald on there and it'll be like, well, Norm MacDonald's breaking the set because of his brain.

00:11:56.000 Well, I can't remember what it was like when I went on those shows.

00:11:58.000 I do remember this.

00:11:59.000 I admire and like Whoopi Goldberg a great deal as a comic and as an actor.

00:12:02.000 I think she's cool, actually.

00:12:04.000 And one of the things, again, like I was saying about Cheryl David, and to Cheryl David, is it's weird if you've been an occupant of Hollywood to sort of then sort of find yourself, like, drifting further and further from that mentality and recognising how much of it is crap, but then sort of trying to stay aware of, well, what about this new cartel or coterie that you belong to?

00:12:25.000 And the only way actually that you can stand steadfast is principle.

00:12:29.000 What is the principle?

00:12:30.000 What is the principle that I'm standing by?

00:12:33.000 The principle is tell the truth.

00:12:34.000 Is that the principle?

00:12:35.000 Tell the truth?

00:12:36.000 The principle is serve God.

00:12:37.000 Is that the principle?

00:12:38.000 If you can't point to a principle, you're probably just doing what's expedient for you in that moment.

00:12:43.000 That's why one day you believe in free speech, the next day you don't believe in free speech anymore.

00:12:47.000 And that's why Cheryl being on there is interesting because Cheryl wouldn't normally be on there. 1.00

00:12:51.000 Her acting is so good that I've called her Cheryl David a number of times.

00:12:54.000 That's how easily duped I am.

00:12:56.000 She's of course called Cheryl Hines. 0.90

00:12:59.000 And as for the view, they don't have a principle.

00:13:01.000 They have a side.

00:13:02.000 And then they just bat for their side.

00:13:04.000 They just bat for their side without thinking, wait a minute, are we the goodies' hands?

00:13:08.000 Is the perfect clip.

00:13:09.000 Have you looked at our caps recently?

00:13:13.000 Our caps.

00:13:14.000 The badges on our caps.

00:13:17.000 Have you looked at them?

00:13:18.000 What? No?

00:13:20.000 A bit.

00:13:22.000 They've got skulls on them.

00:13:26.000 Have you noticed that our caps have actually got little pictures of skulls on them?

00:13:32.000 I don't.

00:13:33.000 Hans.

00:13:36.000 Are we the baddies?

00:13:38.000 Are we the baddies' hands?

00:13:39.000 Oh no, are we the baddies' hands?

00:13:40.000 Is the clip that everyone knows illustrates this perfectly.

00:13:44.000 Okay, well, let's watch the end of this, Cheryl, and then we'll go to the woman herself last time. 1.00

00:13:48.000 But so the question is, yes to vaccines.

00:13:53.000 Yes, they are important and they are an important part of our healthcare.

00:13:57.000 What I mean is war for independence, the revolutionary war, where George Washington at camp.

00:14:02.000 I can't remember.

00:14:03.000 Let me know in the comments in the chat.

00:14:04.000 The one where everyone's got hypothermia, they're all dying.

00:14:06.000 E-vaccinate people. 0.97

00:14:07.000 I know this.

00:14:08.000 Valley Forge?

00:14:09.000 Yes, Valley Forge.

00:14:10.000 At Valley Forge, George Washington, like, he bought over that mad baron dude, a mad German baron, and he was like, don't put the lavatories next to the kitchen.

00:14:21.000 Train these people to do this.

00:14:23.000 Move them into units.

00:14:25.000 He shaped them right up.

00:14:27.000 And I can't remember what the country was that they were fighting against, but that country lost their revolutionary war.

00:14:33.000 I think it was the French.

00:14:34.000 I can't remember the details.

00:14:35.000 Details are sketchy.

00:14:37.000 Anyway, George Washington came up or used a form of vaccination even then.

00:14:41.000 We'll be talking about vaccines, of course, in our show on Friday.

00:14:44.000 So make sure you tune in for that.

00:14:45.000 We'll be talking about Gavin DeBecker's book, which is up there.

00:14:49.000 And it's brilliant on the subject of vaccines and the observable and demonstrable corruption within the medical industry.

00:14:56.000 You'll love that book if you ain't seen it yet.

00:14:57.000 And also the interview of Gavin is fantastic.

00:14:59.000 Let's watch the end of this with Cheryl Hines. 1.00

00:15:23.000 We can't make this content without the support of our incredible partners.

00:15:26.000 Here's a message from one now.

00:15:27.000 Cryptocurrency is here to stay.

00:15:29.000 We're going to have to educate ourselves and fast, particularly with this new and extraordinary deal that's going to impact everything and therefore everyone in the cryptocurrency world.

00:15:39.000 I couldn't believe it when I first saw it.

00:15:41.000 Listen to this.

00:15:42.000 Trump Media just inked a massive $6.4 billion deal with Yorkville Acquisition Corp. and crypto.com, the crypto platform trusted by millions of users worldwide.

00:15:53.000 They have conglomerated in order to scoop up 6.4 billion in CRO, the powerhouse token that fuels fast, low-fee DeFi staking rewards and real-world perks like cashbacks on your spend to establish America's first CRO Treasury Trump Media Group CRO strategy.

00:16:16.000 When it's done, this new company will be the biggest publicly traded CRO holder out there.

00:16:22.000 Do you want to get in on the action?

00:16:24.000 Head to crypto.com today and let's make crypto great again.

00:16:28.000 For more information on the proposed business combination, check out Yorkville Acquisition Corps public filings.

00:16:34.000 Go to the link in the description and look up crypto.com to learn more.

00:16:40.000 Can we listen to people when they say that instead of saying that's amazing because she's actually gone into the territory which we'll be experiencing a lot more of saying is there a link between vaccines and Asperger's and autism and attention deficit disorder and a whole deliberately loosely defined coterie of conditions and

00:17:08.000 the fact that they're difficult to diagnose is actually part of the issue and that is by design too.

00:17:12.000 Autism deliberately occupies a broad spectrum so it's really hard to track it and trace it to use a phrase from the COVID period.

00:17:18.000 That's all described beautifully in Gavin's book, Forbidden Facts also.

00:17:22.000 So please get that if you don't have it yet.

00:17:25.000 Okay, well let's get into our interview with Cheryl Hines who plays Cheryl David, who's written the book unscripted.

00:17:31.000 If you buy that book, it's going to make us look good and mean we'll get better guests.

00:17:34.000 The better the guests, the better the show will be.

00:17:36.000 You can participate in this ecology however you want to.

00:17:40.000 Get Rumble Premium if you don't have it yet and please enjoy this interview.

00:17:45.000 Cheryl, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:17:47.000 It's lovely to see you.

00:17:49.000 It's always good to see you, Russell.

00:17:52.000 We're here to talk mostly about your book Unscripted.

00:17:54.000 I've read a little bit of it.

00:17:56.000 You know what it's like reading books.

00:17:58.000 It's difficult, isn't it?

00:17:59.000 Sometimes I can write a whole book without reading it, let alone other people's entire books.

00:18:05.000 So, but it's I've had a bit of a heads up though, because like a couple of times I've been in, I've hung out with your husband and he told me the story actually, not as well as you've told it, but a pretty good job of, for example, how you got to be on curb and that you were known as Urine Girl as a result of your position and performance in a sketch, one of the sketches that led to your casting, in fact, or significant at least in your progression.

00:18:33.000 And it was really clear to me then, if it's not overindulgent and mawkish for me to say so, what high regard, obviously, your husband holds you in, but also that he's really paying attention to you and really cares about you and really enjoyed telling that story.

00:18:48.000 And like before I sort of knew you both, I thought like, and I hope this isn't a sexist thing to say, that Cheryl will be defined to some degree by her relationship with these two extraordinary and idiosyncratic curmudgeons, Larry David and Robert Kennedy, strong, peculiar, unusual, extraordinary and brilliant men.

00:19:12.000 And it's interesting to watch that play out on a cultural level.

00:19:15.000 Thanks for joining us today.

00:19:17.000 I've so much to talk to you about and listen to you.

00:19:20.000 Hopefully I'll shut up in a second, Cheryl. 1.00

00:19:22.000 I recognize this hasn't been a question yet.

00:19:24.000 But I just wanted to touch upon how your publicity tour began with your appearance on The View and how that has set the stage for you both promoting your brilliant book Unscripted, but also this new and unique position you're in as someone that's from somewhat mainstream culture and now occupies this liminal space that I find myself in.

00:19:45.000 And I know that you didn't ever intend to be here.

00:19:47.000 And it must be weird that because of love and marriage, you found yourself in this strange space.

00:19:52.000 How does View's appearance on The View typify that?

00:19:56.000 And was that the first time you've been, in a sense, confronted by your new position in the culture?

00:20:05.000 Yes.

00:20:06.000 You know, my husband, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is now the secretary of HHS.

00:20:15.000 And really, the view was, I had done a few interviews before that, but the view was a good indicator, you know, that a lot of people only associate me with my husband and his position.

00:20:35.000 So I spent that really that entire interview just defending my husband, but just, you know, laying out some facts about what they had been getting wrong.

00:20:55.000 So it was a good, it was good that I had the chance to do that, you know.

00:21:01.000 And I had, I, I, I haven't been on other interviews for a while, you know.

00:21:08.000 So it was a uh it was a jumpstart on this publicity tour.

00:21:14.000 Because it kind of cements the new position you're in in the same way, in, I suppose, that your husband's position in the culture reveals a lot to us.

00:21:25.000 Because in a sane, somewhat objective or at least good faith culture, the collusion and collaboration between Donald Trump and Robert Kennedy would have signified that the world, in particular, the American political and cultural world, was changing.

00:21:41.000 That it couldn't be as simple as Trump is evil and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and them are good, liberal, progressive people.

00:21:49.000 Otherwise, a candidate and figure that's much more progressive, open, willing to take on corporate interests, understands issues as diverse as big pharma, the environment, is now working with Trump.

00:22:01.000 It was too hard of a proposition to deal with.

00:22:04.000 But our culture these days, Cheryl, you know, as you're obviously aware, more aware than I am, is so partitioned that you never have an objective conversation about that.

00:22:12.000 So I think the reason, as well as the excellent way that you handled the interview, that it's become significant and got, you know, watched a bunch, is well, normally you don't see someone who's a natural in that environment because you're a successful actor representing that side of the conversation.

00:22:31.000 So it was pretty fascinating.

00:22:33.000 How did that interview help you to understand that you ain't in Kansas no more, that you're not like appearing on our HBO specials and beloved series with Larry David?

00:22:44.000 You're in this weird, this weird new terrain.

00:22:48.000 Yes, it did.

00:22:50.000 And I, I, I knew it probably would be that way, right?

00:22:56.000 Because it's just because of my experience and everything I've been seeing for the last, I don't know, year, two, two years, three years.

00:23:07.000 So it was, it was, yeah, it was, I don't want to say eye-opening.

00:23:14.000 My eyes were already open.

00:23:15.000 That's why I was ready for their questions.

00:23:20.000 But I thought it was interesting that, you know, in that interview in particular, they really only wanted to define me by my husband.

00:23:32.000 And I didn't ask them anything about their husbands.

00:23:39.000 Wouldn't that have been interesting if I like went down one by one, like, oh, your husband's in a lawsuit right now, isn't he?

00:23:47.000 But I didn't.

00:23:49.000 I didn't make it about their husbands, but that's what, you know, a lot of people want to talk to them.

00:23:56.000 Yeah.

00:23:56.000 Do you know what's what's also interesting about that is that the view would see themselves almost by definition as a kind of vessel for female power and female empowerment.

00:24:10.000 But when actually dealing with a woman, if it's not convenient to them, they will just talk about that person's husband endlessly, endlessly. 0.96

00:24:17.000 Because none of the values of the culture are that permanent.

00:24:21.000 Is that something like it seems like a long time ago that I was a person that was in Hollywood and married to Katy Perry and being in movies and having billboards of me myself up on Sunset Boulevard and working with comfortably in the environment where it's easy to believe you're fantastic.

00:24:38.000 And like, I, I, well, actually, I find it hard to believe I'm fantastic and even did then.

00:24:42.000 But like, was it like, what's it like for you, Cheryl, to depart from that world?

00:24:49.000 Has it been a wrench?

00:24:51.000 How do you feel about it?

00:24:54.000 Well, it's a good question.

00:24:56.000 I feel, I feel very fortunate that I've had the career I've had.

00:25:03.000 I've accomplished a lot of things I set out to accomplish as an actress.

00:25:09.000 So I have, you know, I've been in a lot of TV shows.

00:25:15.000 I've been in a lot of movies.

00:25:17.000 And at the end of the day, and I talk about it, this in my book, Unscripted, but at the end of the day, you know, you have to ask yourself what really matters, what really, really matters and what really brings you happiness.

00:25:34.000 And, you know, working does bring me happiness, but it doesn't compare at all to the happiness I get from my family, you know, and my relationships.

00:25:48.000 So all of those things are great.

00:25:50.000 Like you said, you know, it's great to drive down Sunset Boulevard and see a billboard, but it doesn't change your life.

00:26:00.000 But your family, you know, your love that you have for other people changes your life.

00:26:04.000 Well, I'll stop the interview there.

00:26:06.000 If you're watching this anywhere other than on Rumble, click the link in the description.

00:26:08.000 Get over to Rumble and join us there.

00:26:12.000 I'm changing my perspective on work.

00:26:15.000 I feel like a lot of my life, I was working to redress feelings of inferiority.

00:26:23.000 And because it's normalized in the culture to appease, acquiesce that feeling through success.

00:26:32.000 Did you have a similar drive yourself?

00:26:38.000 Yes. I mean, I am a very driven person.

00:26:42.000 I'm a very passionate person.

00:26:46.000 So I'm, I'm, you know, oh, that really got you.

00:26:50.000 So I'm passionate about acting and writing and producing.

00:26:58.000 So, so yeah, it, it does, it is a big part of who I am.

00:27:04.000 It makes me, um, it makes me feel more complete as a person to accomplish, you know, even writing a book.

00:27:20.000 it feels like an accomplishment it feels like an uh you know an an accomplishment in the world in which i've set up in entertainment in um this this you know little subculture so yes it it's it's been important you know but uh and and

00:27:44.000 russell there was a time when i really feel like it probably defined me more as a person especially in the early years when i was um curb was starting out i wasn't married i didn't have kids and that was what that was the one thing i was doing and it it felt like oh this is who i am and then uh and then

00:28:13.000 as your life goes on and you and you start to have uh bigger things in your life more important things um it's still you know these these little accomplishments or big accomplish accomplishments are still important but

00:28:32.000 they are not um they don't really matter you know what i mean you must know what i mean because you do know you've been through this yourself every so often i get this kind of anguished pang cheryl of like the the pang of the amputation is how i've come to refer to it because i've obviously been cancelled out of that culture had allegations of sexual misconduct and

00:29:01.000 even rape and i'm standing trial next year for that and what's difficult is one of the ways that i'm um not surviving it because my life is sort of pretty incredible now actually but the one of the ways i've dealt with it is to kind of just cut it off and i feel like i'm inclined towards that

00:29:20.000 anyway like if something don't work i just cut it off amputate it and every so often though people maybe will ask me about like films that i was in or comedy that i did or something that i wrote and i remember thinking my god

00:29:36.000 i worked really hard i worked really hard i feel like as a stand-up comedy comedian doing it for nothing for ages and like for example when i think about the way that i got cast in sarah marshall and like it was like my first ever trip to la like the i interviewed adam sandler on a show that i did in the uk on mtv and he'd like me and him and his agent said come over and i met jad appetow actually i didn't meet jad a met

00:30:03.000 uh jason segal and uh the director of the film and they like you know after one meeting cast me and like and and you'll get this it was the audition was an an improvisation where i had to like uh kristen bell she went there like you know like they played um the girlfriend of the character i ended up playing like it was like i had to persuade her to do a bunch of activities on holiday so like as a person that does improvisation and loves that type of gear that was

00:30:32.000 A really enjoyable setup for me.

00:30:34.000 Like, and like, I think it's on YouTube somewhere.

00:30:37.000 People, like, you can hear them laughing in the background.

00:30:39.000 Yeah, I mean, I just sort of wonder, like, when someone was sort of stretching, I think, well, what are you trying to achieve?

00:30:44.000 You know, where are you trying to go?

00:30:46.000 You're not rest till you're nine foot tall that feeling of, oh my God, I'm good at something.

00:30:54.000 Oh, my God, it's actually going well.

00:30:55.000 You know, I notice you start your book with the phone call of like HBO are going to make a series out of curb, not just a one-off special.

00:31:01.000 And then it is validating and it feels exciting.

00:31:04.000 Well, I've had to kill all of that in myself. 0.99

00:31:06.000 I've had to kill it. 0.94

00:31:08.000 But actually, I've remained like a fan of that.

00:31:11.000 One of the, you know, I love comedy so much.

00:31:13.000 I love Curb Your Enthusiasm.

00:31:15.000 I'm a, you know, I'm devoted.

00:31:16.000 I've watched them all.

00:31:17.000 I watch it all the time.

00:31:18.000 I love Larry David.

00:31:20.000 I love Seinfeld.

00:31:21.000 I love it.

00:31:22.000 And it's a, you know, sometimes I feel like I don't want nothing to do with a culture anymore.

00:31:27.000 But one of the things that I, you know, where I won't make the same mistakes as the view is that I'm really interested in your career and I'm really interested in what it will be like to be on set because I know, at least I think I know, that, you know, that you work without a script.

00:31:42.000 I'll ask someone like Mike Lee, a British filmmaker, but you have an understanding of what the scenes are.

00:31:47.000 And in a minute, we'll get to how you feel about Curb Your Enthusiasm now and how you feel about Larry David now.

00:31:52.000 But for a minute, while we have you, can you tell me a little bit about the process of making them curbs, how it evolved, what it's like to do that?

00:32:00.000 Because Bobby told me the story of how you got it, what they gave you to do in the audition.

00:32:05.000 Would you tell us that story and see if you do it as well as your husband?

00:32:10.000 I'll do it much better.

00:32:12.000 Yeah, so you're right.

00:32:14.000 So Curb Your Enthusiasm is all improvised.

00:32:17.000 So there was no script.

00:32:19.000 Larry would write about a three to five page story outline for the show.

00:32:26.000 So he was, I mean, he's such a great writer and he would write very funny situations.

00:32:32.000 And then, and then we would just show up and shoot the scene.

00:32:37.000 And no two takes were ever the same, right?

00:32:40.000 Because they were always improvised. 0.99

00:32:42.000 So when I went into audition, they just said, you know, you just imagine you've been married to Larry for a while and you don't put up with his bullshit. 0.99

00:32:55.000 And that's all you need to know. 1.00

00:32:59.000 I said, okay.

00:33:01.000 And then I met Larry and he said, let's imagine we have kids and I don't eat chicken anymore.

00:33:12.000 And I said, okay.

00:33:13.000 And then we started talking in our improv and he, you know, said, what are we doing for dinner?

00:33:18.000 And I said, well, we're having potatoes and green beans and chicken cachatory.

00:33:25.000 And he said, I just told you I don't eat chicken.

00:33:28.000 I said, no, you don't have to eat the chicken.

00:33:30.000 And he said, why are we having chicken if I'm not eating chicken?

00:33:34.000 And I said, well, the rest of us still eat chicken.

00:33:36.000 So you'll just have to just eat more of the beans and the potatoes.

00:33:40.000 And, you know, and this went back and forth for a while.

00:33:43.000 And then, and then that was pretty much the end of the audition.

00:33:47.000 And then I left and I started walking down the hall to the elevator.

00:33:52.000 And the casting director came out and said, Can you go in and do one more scenario?

00:33:57.000 And I could, Russell.

00:33:59.000 I had that kind of time.

00:34:00.000 So I went back in there and he said, Look, I want to talk to you about something.

00:34:06.000 I don't think you put enough milk in the cereal bowl for the kids.

00:34:10.000 And I said, well, I cover the flakes.

00:34:13.000 And he said, well, he said, can you just fill it up to the top?

00:34:19.000 I said, what's the, there's no point in that.

00:34:21.000 Just cover the flakes.

00:34:23.000 And then they can drink milk if they want.

00:34:25.000 And he said, well, we can afford it.

00:34:26.000 Just let's fill it up.

00:34:28.000 And we went back and forth for a while.

00:34:30.000 And then that was it.

00:34:31.000 That was the whole, that was the whole audition.

00:34:34.000 They called me later and told me I got it.

00:34:38.000 What made you make the decision to, by the way, it seems perfectly reasonable to me to just cover the flakes.

00:34:44.000 That seems like a good, good metric for cereal milk ratios.

00:34:49.000 But what made you make the decision to serve the chicken instead of not serving chicken?

00:34:58.000 Did you logically and rationally understand that the scene would be better if there was conflict or was it instinctive?

00:35:06.000 Well, you know, I had been studying improv and sketch comedy at the Groundlings Theater here in LA.

00:35:14.000 I'm in LA right now.

00:35:16.000 So you learn, you know, because you never know what a scene is going to be about.

00:35:21.000 People give you suggestions, right?

00:35:23.000 So it's important information.

00:35:26.000 That's the only information you have.

00:35:28.000 So the scene has to be about the information you just received.

00:35:33.000 So I knew, I thought, well, it's important.

00:35:37.000 You know, the chicken is going to be important.

00:35:39.000 I have to talk about it.

00:35:40.000 Otherwise, if we had steak, there would be no scene, right?

00:35:45.000 So I knew, and I knew just from his, you know, telling me that prompt, I knew that I knew his point of view.

00:35:59.000 And I knew that my point of view needed to be different than his.

00:36:03.000 So if he told me before the scene starts that he doesn't eat chicken anymore, then I know I probably still eat chicken and that's going to be the problem.

00:36:16.000 Do you think that the money that I'm given directly from Rumble is enough to keep me in animal print robes?

00:36:23.000 There are people out of shot now who have dress sense that I can't even begin to describe to you, except as to say that they will need revenue in order to finance it.

00:36:23.000 It isn't.

00:36:33.000 So please stay with us for this message that I've tried to make entertaining.

00:36:37.000 Whoever you are, you might consider yourself a businessman or woman or person, or I don't know, maybe you don't have a gender or don't want one.

00:36:45.000 That's not the key issue here, though.

00:36:46.000 The key issue is 1775, a delicious coffee. 0.89

00:36:49.000 Let's be honest, most coffee, all it does is it helps you to organize a stool in that inward back pocket you call the butt.

00:36:58.000 What does it also do?

00:36:59.000 It leaves you feeling all down, jittery, foggy, and needing another cup of coffee.

00:37:03.000 You can only trust 1775, the one true coffee of revolution.

00:37:08.000 Rejuvenate coffee is science-backed coffee.

00:37:11.000 Coffee backed by science.

00:37:12.000 And not Anthony Fauci sad.

00:37:14.000 I made up some sad stuff.

00:37:19.000 I was giving people AIDS.

00:37:20.000 Oh, I've got a beagle in a cage. 1.00

00:37:21.000 I put my fingers up their butt. 1.00

00:37:23.000 That is something Anthony Fauci has admitted to. 0.98

00:37:25.000 Have you read the real Anthony Fauci by Bobby Kennedy?

00:37:28.000 Yeah, it's understood that Anthony Fauci. 0.96

00:37:31.000 He keeps beagles in his yard and he puts stuff up there, but they shit all over the cage. 0.98

00:37:36.000 Fauci doesn't care. 0.99

00:37:37.000 He makes them wallow in it.

00:37:38.000 Anthony Fauci cannot be trusted, but rejuvenate, science-backed coffee can.

00:37:43.000 It's real Arabica beads.

00:37:45.000 Arabic cadabra, I say, because it makes me feel absolutely magic.

00:37:49.000 It's infused with C-A-A-K-G, which is kind of like a rifle, you know, like an assault rifle, but it's assault in your central nervous system with delicious beans, Bebe.

00:37:57.000 A compound shown to support cellular energy, metabolism, and even healthy aging.

00:38:02.000 You don't want to sit deteriorating in a chair, shitting yourself, drinking Starbucks.

00:38:07.000 You need rejuvenation.

00:38:08.000 It's built for people who take their health seriously, who want to show up with focus and strength every single day, like me.

00:38:15.000 If you care about how you feel now and how you'll feel 10 years from now, this is your coffee.

00:38:19.000 Go to sevencedafa coffee.com forward slash me probably and order rejuvenate coffee today. 0.98

00:38:26.000 Fuel your body, protect your future, rejuvenate you sick perverts.

00:38:33.000 It's interesting in a because in an audition dynamic, like which anyone who's gonna succeed as an actor better get used to, you feel a little bit like weak in that environment.

00:38:47.000 Like you see, you're kind of desperate, and you feel like the people on the other side of that table have got power over you and that you're very vulnerable.

00:38:55.000 Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:38:57.000 And so it's very, it's interesting to what I'm interested to note is that they, in that setup, didn't say, I'm not eating chicken no more, but in the scene, serve chicken.

00:39:13.000 So, like, he must have known what the method of working was going to be as well.

00:39:18.000 That the method of working would require sympathico and understanding, and there wasn't room for a bunch of handholding and kid gloving.

00:39:29.000 Yeah, I think you're right.

00:39:31.000 And I think that they, you know, when you're doing improv, I think people either click, you know, and they know they, you know, I'm sure they did that in that way so they could see what decisions you were going to make quickly.

00:39:52.000 And yeah, you're right.

00:39:53.000 If he would have said, I'm still eating chicken, you're not eating chicken, you know, then as a performer, I'm not, I'm not really wouldn't be adding that much, you know, because I wouldn't be adding the way, you know, my sensibility to the scene.

00:40:15.000 I don't know if that makes sense.

00:40:16.000 Is that how like what the required dynamic is?

00:40:19.000 Because in a way, what you were doing in curb was being, it seemed as a viewer, was being a foil, but any good foil brings something other than just continually teeing up the comic.

00:40:36.000 And that's, and also you have the job of kind of having to be sympathetic and having to be like long-suffering and all them sort of tropes that we know from sitcom.

00:40:46.000 Yeah, it's in an entirely new.

00:40:48.000 I remember the first time I ever watched it, the first one I ever saw was that one where it's like, I think it's to do for like the birds singing and stuff.

00:40:53.000 And it's you and Larry in the kitchen and like him saying that you wouldn't miss it if he couldn't hear better.

00:41:00.000 And I remember like not even understanding why I was watching, like because just because of like the, you know, I don't know, I don't think it was earlier than the office.

00:41:08.000 So I guess, you know, with sin stylistically, and of course, the office is after Spinal Tap, and there's been things like it.

00:41:15.000 But I just thought, are they making this up?

00:41:17.000 You know, like it was so exciting to watch as a comic and as a comic actor to see that type of dynamic on screen because it seemed so real.

00:41:28.000 And I wasn't familiar with you before then.

00:41:31.000 And I suppose not even Larry, actually, because all it really we knew Larry David from was, you know, little turns in Seinfeld or if you knew his stand-up or whatever.

00:41:40.000 I thought it was like so cool and so brilliant and it really endured.

00:41:44.000 And I'll say this to you: I don't think it was ever as good when you left it.

00:41:47.000 And I'm glad they brought you back.

00:41:50.000 Thank you.

00:41:51.000 Thank you.

00:41:52.000 Well, you know, it's fun because, you know, the thing that you're talking about, Curb, that's definitely, you know, what was unique about it because it was improvised and you never knew what was going to happen.

00:42:10.000 I remember we were doing a scene with an actress named Julie Payne, who played my mom and Larry.

00:42:19.000 And Larry and she were talking and she said, she asked Larry if he had a mint.

00:42:29.000 You know, this isn't, there's no script, of course.

00:42:32.000 And he digs in his pocket and he did have a mint.

00:42:35.000 And he said, I actually do have one.

00:42:37.000 And she said, this is a loose mint.

00:42:41.000 And he said, well, you just asked for a mint.

00:42:44.000 It's, you know, it's pretty great that I even have one.

00:42:47.000 She said, nobody wants to eat a loose mint from your pocket.

00:42:51.000 You know, after those little moments like you're talking about, where you're watching it going, what am I watching?

00:42:59.000 But if you had a room full of writers, you know, and they're writing a sitcom, they're probably not going to write about a loose mint.

00:43:08.000 Because it doesn't move the scene forward.

00:43:08.000 You know what I mean?

00:43:11.000 It doesn't give out any information about the, you know, story A, story B.

00:43:16.000 Yeah.

00:43:17.000 And then it's always debilitating, I think, when you're working on some creating something and it goes through that process of removing all of that stuff.

00:43:17.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.000 And it's the level of ingenuity required to ensure the survival, as they call it in the Seinfeld documentary, running with the egg about the process of Jerry and Larry and the team of writers there, ensuring that an idea makes it through all of those processes of getting into the screen.

00:43:44.000 And in the end, I've like I'm caught right now between sort of wanting to brutally cut off my own reminiscence and reflections on what it's like to be in films.

00:43:58.000 Because whenever people ask me about films or whatever, I'm like, oh, it's boring.

00:44:00.000 You're just waiting around all the time.

00:44:01.000 I don't want to do it no more.

00:44:03.000 Also, it's facile.

00:44:04.000 There's too many important things happening in the world for me to just spend my time dicking around pretending to be another rock star in another hat.

00:44:11.000 I want to be doing things that are connected to power and the world.

00:44:14.000 But then other times I saw, you know, listening to you and that mint story.

00:44:18.000 I, you know, it's play, innit?

00:44:20.000 I like play.

00:44:21.000 And like, like, losing that is hard, I think.

00:44:25.000 Well, I, you know, I mean, I think the difference between you and me, Russell, I think you are, uh, tell me if I'm right or wrong.

00:44:35.000 I could be wrong, but I think you, you're more of a all or nothing person, you know, like you, that's your survival.

00:44:45.000 That's uh, and but and by the way, your um your situation is so much more extreme.

00:44:54.000 You know, it is it it has been probably more dramatic for you, of course.

00:45:04.000 Um, but for me, I, I mean, I'm producing a film right now with my ex-husband and it's uh funny and fun.

00:45:14.000 So I'm able to, even though, uh, you know, I'm not, I'm not doing a sitcom right now.

00:45:21.000 I'm not, you know, um, driving on to Warner Brothers every day.

00:45:28.000 Um, but I'm doing something else that I love doing.

00:45:31.000 That's that's I see it's still capturing those moments and you know, you still have it.

00:45:37.000 And I hope that for you because I love you as a performer and so many people love you as a performer.

00:45:44.000 And you have that thing that 99.99% people do not have.

00:45:53.000 You're so fast, you're so funny, you're so quick, and you get comedy in a very unique way.

00:46:00.000 And you have you, you still have that and people want to see it, you know?

00:46:05.000 So that's pretty lovely of you to say.

00:46:09.000 Before I met you the first time, I felt like it's going to be interesting to talk to Cheryl because I now am in this new world that I didn't anticipate being in.

00:46:19.000 But in a sense, it's more native to me than the one I was in before, i.e., why did I ever find myself in Hollywood?

00:46:27.000 Why was I even doing that stuff?

00:46:29.000 What was it in me?

00:46:30.000 And in a way, it is kind of appetite, creativity, all them kind of raw ingredients, they could go in a whole bunch of different directions.

00:46:40.000 But our culture defaults to it's your job to monetize it.

00:46:44.000 I always felt that I had both a kind of.

00:46:47.000 a starving artist's love of what I do, inso much as I did do it for years without getting paid, doing stand-up comedy in the UK above pubs, not getting paid, open mic spots, traveling long distance to do 15 minutes here, 20 minutes there, Edinburgh Festival, all those things you have to do to make your bones.

00:47:06.000 But also I had that kind of ferocious, vapid, almost reality TV style, like, duna, like, look at me.

00:47:14.000 You know, I had both of those things.

00:47:16.000 And like, it could have gone anywhere.

00:47:18.000 And now like that the world is changing so fast and I'm changing so fast.

00:47:22.000 It's what's interesting is, as you observe, the culture is so split that you don't need to be going on to the lot at Sony or Warner Brothers or wherever.

00:47:33.000 There's an audience and therefore a market for you to make films and continue to make creative content outside of the old modality.

00:47:42.000 There's even sort of burgeoning media empires now outside of the mainstream, whether it's Daily Wire or other sort of what you'd suppose call right wing.

00:47:52.000 But in it weird though, for you to sort of, because like we were saying at the beginning, normally someone who has your views wouldn't be on the view.

00:48:03.000 They don't do that anymore.

00:48:05.000 Like they only have people on that ultimately, you know, they wouldn't have your husband on.

00:48:09.000 They wouldn't have me on.

00:48:10.000 They wouldn't have like, you know, all of those people sort of get sort of like sifted out.

00:48:15.000 So even though you're sort of seem to be saying that you're not in the way that you say that I am, and I reckon you're probably right, an extremist in a bunch of ways and you're happy to continue doing different versions of making films or making content or writing books or whatever, you know, you're still in it.

00:48:30.000 You're in it because everyone's in it because the culture demands it.

00:48:33.000 You know, like I think 20 years ago, Cheryl, they would have just gone, oh, you're married to Bobby Kennedy.

00:48:37.000 All right.

00:48:37.000 Cool.

00:48:38.000 Well, we're doing another series.

00:48:39.000 How about if we did a show about Cheryl? 0.87

00:48:41.000 Like they would, you know, that's not going to happen anymore.

00:48:43.000 You know, so we're all in it, aren't we?

00:48:45.000 We're all in it.

00:48:46.000 So because the culture's extreme.

00:48:48.000 And I just, I wonder how you're coping with that.

00:48:50.000 And I wonder how you're coping with, not coping with, if, you know, I just want to say, I just want to get your perspective on you've lived in it in one of the sort of, what I would say is sort of like one of the crowning artifacts of the culture, an HBO, prestigious, brilliant, an innovative and well-executed show.

00:49:11.000 And because of who you're married to and in love with, you're not allowed to do that no more.

00:49:17.000 And like, what's weird about it too is that Larry David is someone I fucking adore, like, you know, never met, but adore.

00:49:23.000 Like when he wrote that thing about Bill Maher and my dinner with Hitler, did you see that?

00:49:26.000 It's funny.

00:49:27.000 Yeah.

00:49:28.000 It's funny.

00:49:31.000 Yeah, it's so extreme.

00:49:33.000 Once again, very extreme.

00:49:35.000 And it's just like, you're right.

00:49:39.000 People can't separate anymore.

00:49:42.000 They can't.

00:49:43.000 I mean, and not everybody.

00:49:45.000 By the way, but a lot of people, I was actually just talking to Bill yesterday and we were talking about this because, you know, just sharing the same air with someone like President Trump, that alone is enough for someone to, you know, for Larry to write a scathing, you know, op-ed or whatever,

00:50:15.000 whatever category it was under.

00:50:18.000 Just like, how dare you sit with the president?

00:50:23.000 So it's, it's just a strange, um, but but you know what's interesting, Russell, what's uh what I'm what I'm seeing like on the inside is there is a bit of a counter culture going on with entertainment.

00:50:45.000 I've met several, several people now who huge producers, actors that have moved out of LA and they are starting their own, their own studios.

00:51:02.000 They are doing, I just talked to somebody who, you know, is starting his own studio because he he doesn't want politics to be involved.

00:51:17.000 And he doesn't want someone saying, you know, you have to mention this cultural thing in this episode or this series.

00:51:30.000 And, you know, he was talking to me and he said, he just wants, he just wants to make funny family films.

00:51:37.000 I was like, oh, that would be nice.

00:51:39.000 He goes, but, but not like having to teach people a lesson about whatever people have been wanting to teach people lessons about.

00:51:50.000 You know, but just like, just let's be, let's just have fun with the families can be funny.

00:51:56.000 Kids can be funny.

00:51:57.000 It's like, yeah, I'm on, that would be fun.

00:51:57.000 Parents can be funny.

00:52:01.000 So there is, there are people that are branching off and most likely not going to stay in LA.

00:52:07.000 The people that I have talked to are, yeah, they're not in LA anymore.

00:52:11.000 A lot of people are moving out and wanting to start something different.

00:52:18.000 The kind of analysis that would be applied to the putative or projects that a Hollywood dude or, you know, creative person was talking about.

00:52:31.000 Like, I just want to make things that are funny.

00:52:33.000 Right.

00:52:34.000 They would say, that's not possible.

00:52:35.000 That's never been possible.

00:52:37.000 You know, that's the hegemonics of that are that it was normalizing certain dynamics about a family and saying that if you're not included in a family, then you are a marginal figure in your jacket.

00:52:49.000 And I feel like that that got out of control.

00:52:52.000 That, you know, that you wouldn't just get notes from a studio that were like, oh, wouldn't it be good if this character did more of that?

00:52:59.000 Or don't you think that character is too similar to that one?

00:53:01.000 It's like being, you need a character that represents these ideals.

00:53:04.000 And also, but what was behind all that was not any kind of integrity.

00:53:10.000 It's all just marketing, really.

00:53:12.000 It's marketing and ECG scores.

00:53:16.000 There's nothing sort of credible about it.

00:53:19.000 And it's deleterious to creativity.

00:53:23.000 I saw Seinfeld once say, and forget this, don't you think, you know, I know this is sort of tangential, although you would have worked with Jerry in the season 10, I think it was, where it was the Seinfeld reunion shows.

00:53:34.000 Like, like Jerry Seinfeld was almost defined by the fact that he was a comedian talking about minutiae and normal life.

00:53:41.000 Now, like Jerry Seinfeld, because of his position on Israel as a New York Jew, is like, gets people turning up at his shows and sharing stuff.

00:53:50.000 So when did everything become so hostile?

00:53:54.000 And the idea that people might just be making comedy that's only about itself and not everything can be about everything.

00:54:01.000 And just because you're making a sitcom that's about family, that doesn't mean you're making a explicit comment about other lifestyles or races or religions or cultures.

00:54:10.000 Right.

00:54:11.000 The whole thing, like the fact that Jerry Seinfeld can be a divisive person, I think tells you the world's gone mental because he was a genius, but a commentator on normality, the normalcy.

00:54:23.000 That's what he was.

00:54:25.000 You're right, because people are so judgmental and they are, you know, so right in the case of Jerry Seinfeld, you know, they want to know his views as a person politically before they decide if they want to listen to his comedy.

00:54:50.000 So that's, yeah, it wasn't like this 20 years ago, was it?

00:54:55.000 No.

00:54:55.000 And it's changed.

00:54:57.000 I've never really talked about politics with other actors.

00:55:02.000 I couldn't tell you who I've worked with that was a Democrat or Republican.

00:55:09.000 I mean, I could tell you a few just because they would bring it up to me.

00:55:14.000 But otherwise, it was never part of the conversation.

00:55:19.000 But now it is.

00:55:20.000 It really is, right?

00:55:22.000 Yeah.

00:55:22.000 And I don't know how that happened.

00:55:23.000 And I don't know why that happened.

00:55:26.000 And I don't know who benefits from that happening.

00:55:31.000 What about when you had to start to enter into the world of your husband?

00:55:39.000 Did that require conversations with people?

00:55:41.000 Did people directly tell you what you're doing? 0.97

00:55:44.000 He's a kook. 0.99

00:55:45.000 He's a crackpot. 0.98

00:55:46.000 Did people tell you, did it affect you?

00:55:49.000 Did you feel doors being closed in your face?

00:55:51.000 And what was it like when you went into that world and started to encounter some of the people that define your new landscape?

00:56:00.000 You know, it depended on the day, right?

00:56:02.000 Because some days I felt like, some days I felt strong.

00:56:08.000 If Bobby was running for president and someone came up to me and said, you got to tell him to drop out. 0.96

00:56:13.000 This is ridiculous. 0.93

00:56:15.000 You know, some days I felt strong and I would be able to have that conversation and say, well, Biden is a weak candidate. 0.98

00:56:25.000 You know, this is where we are right now.

00:56:28.000 And this is why he's running.

00:56:29.000 And so some days I felt okay, you know, okay about it.

00:56:35.000 And other days I felt like, oh, wow, I didn't know I would need to be talking about this all day.

00:56:45.000 And, you know, I thought we were just here to do comedy.

00:56:53.000 But okay, you know, I can, I see, I hear that you're angry or that you're upset.

00:56:58.000 So, so let's talk about it.

00:57:02.000 But, you know, it wasn't the path that I had been bushwhacking as an actor, you know, you're like going through the jungle making your own path.

00:57:15.000 And then all of a sudden somebody else takes the, what is that thing called?

00:57:23.000 You're thinking about a machete.

00:57:25.000 A machete.

00:57:27.000 Yes.

00:57:27.000 Somebody else takes the machete and is like, I'm going, we're going to go this way.

00:57:31.000 And he's like, oh, okay.

00:57:33.000 Well, let's see where that leads us.

00:57:37.000 Yeah.

00:57:38.000 Well, I want to mention now that when I've been hanging around you a lot and I've met, for example, Jackson.

00:57:45.000 Jackson is your nephew.

00:57:46.000 Is that right?

00:57:49.000 I love that guy.

00:57:50.000 And he, no, he loves you.

00:57:50.000 Yes.

00:57:53.000 Yeah. He's cool.

00:57:54.000 He loves you.

00:57:55.000 He's going to be so happy that you just said his name.

00:57:57.000 Yeah.

00:57:57.000 I'm very fond of him.

00:57:58.000 He sends me some unusual photographs just to clarify mostly things he's been shooting.

00:58:02.000 Like, you know, I'm not talking about erotica.

00:58:07.000 He, like he, I know that, you know, like that you've dedicated the book to your nephew, God rest his soul, Michael.

00:58:15.000 And I remember when Michael passed, and I remember how impactful that was on your family.

00:58:25.000 We have a child who has had medical complications, and it seems somehow to have a divine component that being in the company of someone, it's particularly a child, I suppose, in both these instances, there's something about it that brings you closer to God or at least truth, I suppose, if you don't believe in God.

00:58:25.000 It's interesting.

00:58:50.000 Can you talk to us a little bit about Michael, why you dedicated the book to him and what your relationship with him was like?

00:59:00.000 Yeah, you make a very good point because before Michael was born, you know, he was born with cerebral palsy, so he was very limited with his physicality.

00:59:15.000 He was always in a wheelchair.

00:59:19.000 He didn't have great verbal skills, a little bit, but not a lot.

00:59:26.000 And when he was born and started growing up, you realize, oh, this person is a complete person.

00:59:43.000 But you know that other people might have looked at him and thought, oh, he's in a wheelchair.

00:59:51.000 He can't speak very well.

00:59:54.000 It's probably hard for him to have relationships or hard for him to have feelings or understanding what's going on around him.

01:00:01.000 But that's not the case.

01:00:04.000 And like you're saying, it's almost like God is connecting to you, saying sometimes you have to look at somebody differently.

01:00:19.000 So with the case of Michael, he didn't speak the way most kids speak.

01:00:27.000 So you had to learn Michael's language.

01:00:31.000 And it was just as, you know, you knew what he was thinking and what he was communicating because you were with him his whole life.

01:00:44.000 But if somebody had met him one day and, you know, heard him try to speak, they probably would not have understood him.

01:00:55.000 So God gives you this being in your life that sometimes only you can understand that person or your family can understand that person.

01:01:07.000 And it's so, it's such a special bond because they, he felt that from us too.

01:01:15.000 He always just wanted to be with my family.

01:01:20.000 That made him the happiest.

01:01:22.000 He was the most joyful guy.

01:01:25.000 And he, that's all he wanted was to be with us, which of course made us feel great because, and all we wanted was to be with him.

01:01:33.000 But you know what I'm talking about to have someone who is not typical, not a typical person that you don't communicate in a typical way.

01:01:46.000 But you understand it.

01:01:47.000 Yeah.

01:01:48.000 Because I think that what happens is that we all adopt without understanding it a set of criteria about what a person is supposed to be, what a relationship is supposed to be, what our assumed objectives are.

01:02:01.000 And those things are generally dictated and determined by the culture, unless you have a very deliberately spiritual life, unless you've located these other principles by which I will be guided.

01:02:12.000 And I reckon, additionally, to my perhaps whatever feelings of being spurned or wounded by what happened with me, to me, for me, in the culture, being cancelled, etc.

01:02:24.000 In addition to that, is my sort of subsequent sense that that culture is geared towards goals that I don't agree with.

01:02:30.000 And the reason that you and your husband in particular are interesting to me, other than the fact that I love you both, is that it helps me to understand that that culture is inauthentic and not reliable.

01:02:43.000 In storytelling, as you will be aware, it's a process of revelation.

01:02:47.000 Good storytelling is when do you get the information?

01:02:50.000 Character is revealed through the events.

01:02:53.000 These events happen to the character.

01:02:55.000 Now I know what that character means.

01:02:57.000 When you know someone who's never going to be a participant in the culture because they can't work or make money or be sexy or do whatever it is you're supposed to do in that particular part of the culture, you're kind of confronted by what are they anyway?

01:03:13.000 What are they really?

01:03:14.000 And one time someone said to me, a Swami he happened to be, that a little girl had said that she was real excited before her younger sibling was born.

01:03:24.000 And when the sibling was born paraplegic and with cerebral palsy, she says she was disappointed and angry that she wasn't going to get the sibling that she'd imagined.

01:03:36.000 But as her relationship with the sibling grew, she said, My sister doesn't understand if you get angry.

01:03:42.000 She doesn't understand if you're frustrated.

01:03:45.000 But if you smile and if you're loving, she will understand and she will smile.

01:03:50.000 And in that is the revelation that we are trying to find love and express love in a variety of unique ways.

01:03:57.000 And probably I think that all of the people that I admire, I can tell in my interactions with them that they are in the service of love.

01:04:06.000 Not all of the time, because if that would be Christ, but you can see that generally they are so motivated by love that they will let it destroy them if it has to, if it has to destroy them.

01:04:18.000 And sometimes it takes people that just don't have the option of participating in, say, for example, if you have a disability, what's regarded, obviously, understandably as a disability, then you get it.

01:04:31.000 You get it concentrated in your interaction with them.

01:04:34.000 You sort of say, oh my God, the beauty, the God is in this person and God is in me and that God is love.

01:04:41.000 I can feel it in my interactions with them.

01:04:44.000 So it's strange, isn't it?

01:04:46.000 Because sometimes it's, as you said, Cheryl, it's regarded as not a complete life or not a complete person.

01:04:53.000 But sometimes actually what it is is a more radiant and more complete person according to different criteria.

01:05:01.000 And it's the criteria itself that probably needs scrutinizing rather than the person.

01:05:07.000 No, you're absolutely right.

01:05:10.000 You're absolutely right.

01:05:11.000 So sometimes somebody like Michael has much more than a typical person.

01:05:21.000 And it's, and if you don't have, you're right.

01:05:25.000 If you don't have that love in your heart, you won't see it in somebody else.

01:05:32.000 You won't be able to.

01:05:34.000 Yeah.

01:05:35.000 Yeah. All right.

01:05:36.000 Well, listen, look, thanks for coming on here and talking to us about Unscripted.

01:05:41.000 Thank you.

01:05:43.000 I'm writing a book for Tony Lyons and Skyhorse.

01:05:47.000 What's it been?

01:05:48.000 What's it been like working with him?

01:05:49.000 Has it been all right?

01:05:50.000 I love Tony.

01:05:53.000 He's been pretty, You know, I always hear writers and talk about their publishers and their publishers mad because they didn't turn in the pages.

01:06:04.000 I did not have that experience with Tony.

01:06:06.000 Tony's just been, yes, write what you want to write.

01:06:11.000 Get it to me when you want.

01:06:14.000 If you want to hit this publishing date, you've got to turn it in by this date.

01:06:18.000 And if you don't, then we'll publish it next year.

01:06:24.000 So that's been my experience.

01:06:25.000 I really love him.

01:06:26.000 And he's been a great creative partner.

01:06:30.000 Yeah.

01:06:31.000 Yeah, good.

01:06:32.000 All right.

01:06:33.000 Well, I'm looking forward to working with him on that.

01:06:36.000 How come you're working with your ex-husband?

01:06:37.000 I didn't even think about it.

01:06:38.000 I didn't even know you had an ex-husband.

01:06:41.000 And what are you doing making a film with him? 0.80

01:06:43.000 And how can you be so disloyal and cruel?

01:06:48.000 He loves Paul.

01:06:49.000 They're good friends.

01:06:52.000 You know, I've worked with Paul, you know, said for years and years.

01:06:57.000 And we just have a good, we have a good relationship.

01:07:00.000 We work well together.

01:07:02.000 He's got a good sense of humor and he's smart.

01:07:04.000 So it works.

01:07:06.000 What are you doing?

01:07:07.000 I can't tell you yet.

01:07:09.000 I can tell you when we're off.

01:07:11.000 We haven't announced it yet.

01:07:12.000 We haven't announced it.

01:07:12.000 Oh, I see.

01:07:13.000 Oh, fair enough.

01:07:14.000 All right.

01:07:14.000 Fair enough.

01:07:15.000 Hey, Cheryl, thanks very much for coming on here. 0.99

01:07:17.000 And there's bits of the conversation actually where I really was forced to sort of think about my own relationship with, you know, creativity and, you know, my own sort of injuries around that kind of stuff.

01:07:27.000 So it's really informative and instructive.

01:07:31.000 I wish you all the best with this book.

01:07:33.000 Thank you very much for making time for us today.

01:07:37.000 Thank you for having me.

01:07:38.000 You know, I'm sending you so much love.

01:07:42.000 Thank you.

01:07:43.000 Thanks, Cheryl. God bless you.

01:07:45.000 Thank you.

01:07:48.000 Well, that's the end of the show.

01:07:50.000 I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Cheryl Hines.

01:07:52.000 I hope you think I've done a good job.

01:07:55.000 I myself am working on a book at the moment.

01:07:58.000 Please support Skyhorse, the publishers.

01:08:01.000 Yeah, Skyhorse, that have published Cheryl's book.

01:08:04.000 There's a link in the description so that you can buy Cheryl's book.

01:08:07.000 There it is.

01:08:08.000 Buy that book.

01:08:09.000 It's fantastic.

01:08:10.000 It really helps us when you do that.

01:08:12.000 And it helps her and it helps us to get good guests.

01:08:13.000 So please support Cheryl if you can.

01:08:15.000 I read some of the books since the interview.

01:08:17.000 I always do it the wrong way around.

01:08:18.000 I read it like since then.

01:08:19.000 She's good conversationally.

01:08:19.000 It's good.

01:08:21.000 She's funny.

01:08:21.000 You'll enjoy it.

01:08:22.000 Get the book.

01:08:23.000 And please do that for us.

01:08:25.000 If you ain't got Rumble Premium yet, get Rumble Premium now.

01:08:28.000 This Friday, we will be doing another show with deep dives into a variety of subjects.

01:08:33.000 And let me tell you what some of those subjects are going to be.

01:08:35.000 With having a look at flu and vaccines and how Senator Kennedy is impacting and affecting that world.

01:08:40.000 We're talking about the Obama legacy and the vite of him in the light of him building that great big monument to himself, some mad Kubla Khan monument and asking, what does he mean really?

01:08:49.000 Was Obama the moment when America really lost hope in politics?

01:08:53.000 You know, because what the left will say is Trump is a moment, but I remember how they were about Bush, man.

01:08:57.000 We're talking about Bill Gates on climate change.

01:09:00.000 We're talking about Bill Gates as one of the master architects of the global imperialist order.

01:09:05.000 And we're talking about a total loss of faith in corrupt pharmacology.

01:09:10.000 It's going to be a fantastic show.

01:09:12.000 Please join us there, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - November 05, 2025

From Curb Your Enthusiasm to Courage — Cheryl Hines on Hollywood, RFK Jr. & Speaking Out - SF646

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript