Russell Brand talks with Cheryl Hines about why Christianity should be at the front of your mind when it comes to understanding the world around you, and how it relates to the world at large. He also talks about the recent murder of Charlie Kirk, and why he believes that Christianity is at the heart of it all.
00:00:24.000It's an interview with Cheryl Hines, a person I've known for a little while as a result of being friends with Secretary Kennedy.
00:00:30.000And I've been a fan of her for a long, long, long time, actually, because I love Kirby's enthusiasm.
00:00:38.000One of the things about being a person that's operating in the entertainment industry is it's really weird to sort of reorganize your opinions and perspectives on people that you've liked for a long while.
00:00:56.000One of the things I'm trying to understand is how is it that we operate now in a space where you either hate everyone on this side of the aisle or love everyone on that side of the aisle and on the right there's endless fracturing candidates don't like this person, Jordan Peterson don't like that.
00:01:10.000But I mean it's like that's why I feel like Christianity has got to be at the forefront.
00:01:15.000Now think about the pivotal recent event, the murder of Charlie Kirk and how that seems to have further fractured the space.
00:01:22.000Do you think, let me know in the comments and chat that over time Charlie Kirk was moving more and more into his faith in Christianity as the guiding ideal above his Republicanism.
00:01:30.000When I took place, took part in a turning point event over in Oklahoma, what I thought was really interesting is one American Indian, I don't mean in a Pocahontas way, I mean India as in curries and that way, he said, I'm an American Indian, you know, look, you know what I mean, don't you?
00:01:47.000Anyway, he said that his Hinduism for closed his full participation in Sangalak turning point.
00:01:54.000And I said, well, look, the Christianity is really what I believe in.
00:01:57.000I know like most of you are probably right-wing and most of you are probably Republican.
00:02:01.000And I'm certainly not a Democrat person.
00:02:03.000I'm not involved in any of this stuff.
00:02:05.000What I believe in is the power of the Lord and the power of the Lord to change things.
00:02:09.000And that's what we're advocating for in this show.
00:02:11.000Whether or not that's where you are right now, what I'm interested in is how, as I've learned more and more about Christ, it aligns completely with, and supersedes, obviously, what I'd learned previously from a new age perspective, a Vedic perspective, a drug addict perspective.
00:02:27.000In fact, just today, I was reading Ezekiel, the opening chapters of Ezekiel.
00:02:32.000And he's describing what sounds to me like a UFO encounter, right, pretty vividly.
00:02:38.000And I remember hearing about that when I was much more into doing acid and, you know, and extraterrestrials and counterculture from a new perspective.
00:02:47.000A perspective now that seems somewhat jaded, although it's been further illustrated by the likes of David Icke, who was someone I was into when I was a kid, and Alex Jones and other folk.
00:02:57.000You know, what I'm saying is, is that Christianity is a belief system that can encompass whatever it is you're trying to understand and appreciate, and that Christianity probably, I reckon, like everything, is going to go through some interesting revisions, although God is the Alpha and the Omega, the same in the beginning of time and before time as he is now and ever shall be, to quote from the Catholic Glory B prayer.
00:03:17.000So what I'm trying to bring to the work that we're doing now is my own raw, honest, authentic, in-the-moment experience of getting to know Christ.
00:04:10.000You get stuff from Glenn Greenwald, who's, you know, in terms of journalistic integrity, I don't think there's anyone better than him on Rumble or anywhere, as a matter of fact.
00:04:18.000You'll learn more and you, you know, Rumble's crazy.
00:04:24.000But here, you do have access to some brilliant content creators.
00:04:28.000And I hope that you will support us if you can.
00:04:32.000Now, this is the thing I really want to tell you.
00:04:34.000Cheryl is interesting, Cheryl Hines, because she's like a, I think she's like a working-class woman, you know, grown, grow, grew up in Florida, got into acting and stuff, and then got with Bobby Kennedy.
00:04:46.000And imagine she's just like with this Kennedy, I mean, kind of exciting.
00:04:49.000He's a lawyer, an environmental lawyer, and all that.
00:04:51.000Then he runs for independent president, well, president as an independent candidate.
00:04:55.000And suddenly she's in a world of chaos and pain.
00:04:57.000The best story she told me was this one.
00:05:02.000And if I'd done my research properly, I would have read the book, but you know, it's just, I don't know, look at me.
00:05:08.000So, anyway, in the book, if you get it, her book, Cheryl, Cheryl Hines' book that she's written on this subject, which is called Unscripted, in her book, she talks about how when she first met Trump, she broke out in hives prior to the event.
00:05:23.000She told me this story, not in the podcast, because I forgot to ask, but she told me in real life, and I loved it.
00:05:29.000What she said was that before she met Trump, she's like, oh my God, it was at the RNC in Milwaukee, where Trump and Kennedy are meeting to talk about the alliance that subsequently happened.
00:06:23.000But just while Kennedy is like riffing and proselytizing and racing touring, Trump, apropos of nothing, just sort of nudges her and goes, I don't mind his voice.
00:06:47.000A bit like when he was at the UN and he talked for ages and ages about grout and marble tiles and building techniques from the perspective of someone that had tried to win that contract when he was in the construction game in New York City to make the UN building in New York there opposite the Wardorf Astoria.
00:07:02.000Many years ago, a very successful real estate developer in New York, known as Donald J. Trump, I bid on the renovation and rebuilding of this very United Nations complex.
00:07:46.000As far as I'm concerned, frankly, looking at the building and getting stuck in the escalator, they still haven't finished the job.
00:07:55.000Obviously, Cheryl Hines has been in the public eye for a long time, mostly as a comedian and actor.
00:08:00.000And she's got stories about Larry Davies, she's got stories about Robin Williams.
00:08:03.000But I really liked her recent appearance on The View, where she was able to competently defend her husband's position.
00:08:11.000In our conversation, in a minute, that you'll see, she talks about like she didn't say to any of the women on The View, let's talk about your husband.
00:08:17.000And isn't it funny that a show like The View, which positions itself as kind of de facto progressive and feminist, when it comes to it, will just talk to a woman about their husband.
00:08:26.000You know, there's like a screenplay writing law, which I bet Massey knows about.
00:08:30.000That's like, if you write a film and you don't have at least a moment where two female characters talk about something other than a man they're involved with, it doesn't pass a particular test.
00:08:41.000I think I've seen jokes about it on Rick and Morty, otherwise I wouldn't know about it.
00:08:44.000Morty, do you know what the Bechdell test is?
00:08:46.000For God's sake, Morty, the formula for measuring female agency in a story proposed by lesbian cartoonist Allison.
00:08:51.000What the hell are they teaching you in that school?
00:08:58.000It's called the Bechdell test, where in order to qualify, say, as feminist or even just not sexist literature, you have to have two female characters talking at some point about saying other than a man.
00:09:10.000And they'd be the kind of people that would say that they support it.
00:09:13.000That's one of the things about progressivism that's irksome, it doesn't believe in its own tokens and emblems.
00:09:20.000In fact, the word token is better than the word emblem because token is a gesture and emblem is a symbol.
00:09:26.000So let's have a look at this moment where Cheryl spoke to the members of the View cast and see how it went down.
00:09:32.000And let me know in the comments and chat before we get to the interview itself how you felt Cheryl handled it.
00:09:37.000When you say that they are pro a vaccine, it seems as though Bobby and Trump are casting doubt on the efficacy of the vaccine, which makes Americans very nervous.
00:09:47.000So that's the problem that we'll have.
00:10:32.000There's people that were getting vaccines in the Civil War from George Washington that should be remunerated on that basis.
00:10:39.000So it's fascinating that the default position is to defend the establishment.
00:10:45.000As surely as their production model includes a QR code which demonstrates how they've evolved to be expert and functional at selling commodities.
00:10:54.000Don't use that QR code, by the way, when you buy Cheryl's book, because otherwise the View will go, we are able to say that our guests sell this many books.
00:11:02.000What we want is you to use this QR code that sells the book and then people will realize independent media is more effective at selling commodities even than their filthy propagandist stinking model and they will experience the decay and decline that is surely their legacy lord.
00:11:22.000So what I'm saying is that what that is, the view, is a show that sells products.
00:11:28.000In a way, our show is a show that sells products.
00:11:30.000But hopefully you can tell and feel that we have got nothing to hide, that we are viscerally raw and open and candid and totally real.
00:11:40.000And what I want to say mostly about that view and her being on it, Cheryl, I mean by her, is it's a unique situation because the view tends to churn people that are safe.
00:11:49.000Once in a while, you'll see someone like Norm MacDonald on there and it'll be like, well, Norm MacDonald's breaking the set because of his brain.
00:11:56.000Well, I can't remember what it was like when I went on those shows.
00:12:04.000And one of the things, again, like I was saying about Cheryl David, and to Cheryl David, is it's weird if you've been an occupant of Hollywood to sort of then sort of find yourself, like, drifting further and further from that mentality and recognising how much of it is crap, but then sort of trying to stay aware of, well, what about this new cartel or coterie that you belong to?
00:12:25.000And the only way actually that you can stand steadfast is principle.
00:14:10.000At Valley Forge, George Washington, like, he bought over that mad baron dude, a mad German baron, and he was like, don't put the lavatories next to the kitchen.
00:15:29.000We're going to have to educate ourselves and fast, particularly with this new and extraordinary deal that's going to impact everything and therefore everyone in the cryptocurrency world.
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00:16:40.000Can we listen to people when they say that instead of saying that's amazing because she's actually gone into the territory which we'll be experiencing a lot more of saying is there a link between vaccines and Asperger's and autism and attention deficit disorder and a whole deliberately loosely defined coterie of conditions and
00:17:08.000the fact that they're difficult to diagnose is actually part of the issue and that is by design too.
00:17:12.000Autism deliberately occupies a broad spectrum so it's really hard to track it and trace it to use a phrase from the COVID period.
00:17:18.000That's all described beautifully in Gavin's book, Forbidden Facts also.
00:17:22.000So please get that if you don't have it yet.
00:17:25.000Okay, well let's get into our interview with Cheryl Hines who plays Cheryl David, who's written the book unscripted.
00:17:31.000If you buy that book, it's going to make us look good and mean we'll get better guests.
00:17:34.000The better the guests, the better the show will be.
00:17:36.000You can participate in this ecology however you want to.
00:17:40.000Get Rumble Premium if you don't have it yet and please enjoy this interview.
00:17:45.000Cheryl, thanks so much for joining us today.
00:17:59.000Sometimes I can write a whole book without reading it, let alone other people's entire books.
00:18:05.000So, but it's I've had a bit of a heads up though, because like a couple of times I've been in, I've hung out with your husband and he told me the story actually, not as well as you've told it, but a pretty good job of, for example, how you got to be on curb and that you were known as Urine Girl as a result of your position and performance in a sketch, one of the sketches that led to your casting, in fact, or significant at least in your progression.
00:18:33.000And it was really clear to me then, if it's not overindulgent and mawkish for me to say so, what high regard, obviously, your husband holds you in, but also that he's really paying attention to you and really cares about you and really enjoyed telling that story.
00:18:48.000And like before I sort of knew you both, I thought like, and I hope this isn't a sexist thing to say, that Cheryl will be defined to some degree by her relationship with these two extraordinary and idiosyncratic curmudgeons, Larry David and Robert Kennedy, strong, peculiar, unusual, extraordinary and brilliant men.
00:19:12.000And it's interesting to watch that play out on a cultural level.
00:19:17.000I've so much to talk to you about and listen to you.
00:19:20.000Hopefully I'll shut up in a second, Cheryl.
00:19:22.000I recognize this hasn't been a question yet.
00:19:24.000But I just wanted to touch upon how your publicity tour began with your appearance on The View and how that has set the stage for you both promoting your brilliant book Unscripted, but also this new and unique position you're in as someone that's from somewhat mainstream culture and now occupies this liminal space that I find myself in.
00:19:45.000And I know that you didn't ever intend to be here.
00:19:47.000And it must be weird that because of love and marriage, you found yourself in this strange space.
00:19:52.000How does View's appearance on The View typify that?
00:19:56.000And was that the first time you've been, in a sense, confronted by your new position in the culture?
00:20:06.000You know, my husband, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is now the secretary of HHS.
00:20:15.000And really, the view was, I had done a few interviews before that, but the view was a good indicator, you know, that a lot of people only associate me with my husband and his position.
00:20:35.000So I spent that really that entire interview just defending my husband, but just, you know, laying out some facts about what they had been getting wrong.
00:20:55.000So it was a good, it was good that I had the chance to do that, you know.
00:21:01.000And I had, I, I, I haven't been on other interviews for a while, you know.
00:21:08.000So it was a uh it was a jumpstart on this publicity tour.
00:21:14.000Because it kind of cements the new position you're in in the same way, in, I suppose, that your husband's position in the culture reveals a lot to us.
00:21:25.000Because in a sane, somewhat objective or at least good faith culture, the collusion and collaboration between Donald Trump and Robert Kennedy would have signified that the world, in particular, the American political and cultural world, was changing.
00:21:41.000That it couldn't be as simple as Trump is evil and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and them are good, liberal, progressive people.
00:21:49.000Otherwise, a candidate and figure that's much more progressive, open, willing to take on corporate interests, understands issues as diverse as big pharma, the environment, is now working with Trump.
00:22:01.000It was too hard of a proposition to deal with.
00:22:04.000But our culture these days, Cheryl, you know, as you're obviously aware, more aware than I am, is so partitioned that you never have an objective conversation about that.
00:22:12.000So I think the reason, as well as the excellent way that you handled the interview, that it's become significant and got, you know, watched a bunch, is well, normally you don't see someone who's a natural in that environment because you're a successful actor representing that side of the conversation.
00:22:33.000How did that interview help you to understand that you ain't in Kansas no more, that you're not like appearing on our HBO specials and beloved series with Larry David?
00:22:44.000You're in this weird, this weird new terrain.
00:23:56.000Do you know what's what's also interesting about that is that the view would see themselves almost by definition as a kind of vessel for female power and female empowerment.
00:24:10.000But when actually dealing with a woman, if it's not convenient to them, they will just talk about that person's husband endlessly, endlessly.
00:24:17.000Because none of the values of the culture are that permanent.
00:24:21.000Is that something like it seems like a long time ago that I was a person that was in Hollywood and married to Katy Perry and being in movies and having billboards of me myself up on Sunset Boulevard and working with comfortably in the environment where it's easy to believe you're fantastic.
00:24:38.000And like, I, I, well, actually, I find it hard to believe I'm fantastic and even did then.
00:24:42.000But like, was it like, what's it like for you, Cheryl, to depart from that world?
00:25:17.000And at the end of the day, and I talk about it, this in my book, Unscripted, but at the end of the day, you know, you have to ask yourself what really matters, what really, really matters and what really brings you happiness.
00:25:34.000And, you know, working does bring me happiness, but it doesn't compare at all to the happiness I get from my family, you know, and my relationships.
00:26:46.000So I'm, I'm, you know, oh, that really got you.
00:26:50.000So I'm passionate about acting and writing and producing.
00:26:58.000So, so yeah, it, it does, it is a big part of who I am.
00:27:04.000It makes me, um, it makes me feel more complete as a person to accomplish, you know, even writing a book.
00:27:20.000it feels like an accomplishment it feels like an uh you know an an accomplishment in the world in which i've set up in entertainment in um this this you know little subculture so yes it it's it's been important you know but uh and and
00:27:44.000russell there was a time when i really feel like it probably defined me more as a person especially in the early years when i was um curb was starting out i wasn't married i didn't have kids and that was what that was the one thing i was doing and it it felt like oh this is who i am and then uh and then
00:28:13.000as your life goes on and you and you start to have uh bigger things in your life more important things um it's still you know these these little accomplishments or big accomplish accomplishments are still important but
00:28:32.000they are not um they don't really matter you know what i mean you must know what i mean because you do know you've been through this yourself every so often i get this kind of anguished pang cheryl of like the the pang of the amputation is how i've come to refer to it because i've obviously been cancelled out of that culture had allegations of sexual misconduct and
00:29:01.000even rape and i'm standing trial next year for that and what's difficult is one of the ways that i'm um not surviving it because my life is sort of pretty incredible now actually but the one of the ways i've dealt with it is to kind of just cut it off and i feel like i'm inclined towards that
00:29:20.000anyway like if something don't work i just cut it off amputate it and every so often though people maybe will ask me about like films that i was in or comedy that i did or something that i wrote and i remember thinking my god
00:29:36.000i worked really hard i worked really hard i feel like as a stand-up comedy comedian doing it for nothing for ages and like for example when i think about the way that i got cast in sarah marshall and like it was like my first ever trip to la like the i interviewed adam sandler on a show that i did in the uk on mtv and he'd like me and him and his agent said come over and i met jad appetow actually i didn't meet jad a met
00:30:03.000uh jason segal and uh the director of the film and they like you know after one meeting cast me and like and and you'll get this it was the audition was an an improvisation where i had to like uh kristen bell she went there like you know like they played um the girlfriend of the character i ended up playing like it was like i had to persuade her to do a bunch of activities on holiday so like as a person that does improvisation and loves that type of gear that was
00:31:22.000And it's a, you know, sometimes I feel like I don't want nothing to do with a culture anymore.
00:31:27.000But one of the things that I, you know, where I won't make the same mistakes as the view is that I'm really interested in your career and I'm really interested in what it will be like to be on set because I know, at least I think I know, that, you know, that you work without a script.
00:31:42.000I'll ask someone like Mike Lee, a British filmmaker, but you have an understanding of what the scenes are.
00:31:47.000And in a minute, we'll get to how you feel about Curb Your Enthusiasm now and how you feel about Larry David now.
00:31:52.000But for a minute, while we have you, can you tell me a little bit about the process of making them curbs, how it evolved, what it's like to do that?
00:32:00.000Because Bobby told me the story of how you got it, what they gave you to do in the audition.
00:32:05.000Would you tell us that story and see if you do it as well as your husband?
00:32:42.000So when I went into audition, they just said, you know, you just imagine you've been married to Larry for a while and you don't put up with his bullshit.
00:35:40.000Otherwise, if we had steak, there would be no scene, right?
00:35:45.000So I knew, and I knew just from his, you know, telling me that prompt, I knew that I knew his point of view.
00:35:59.000And I knew that my point of view needed to be different than his.
00:36:03.000So if he told me before the scene starts that he doesn't eat chicken anymore, then I know I probably still eat chicken and that's going to be the problem.
00:36:16.000Do you think that the money that I'm given directly from Rumble is enough to keep me in animal print robes?
00:36:23.000There are people out of shot now who have dress sense that I can't even begin to describe to you, except as to say that they will need revenue in order to finance it.
00:36:33.000So please stay with us for this message that I've tried to make entertaining.
00:36:37.000Whoever you are, you might consider yourself a businessman or woman or person, or I don't know, maybe you don't have a gender or don't want one.
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00:38:33.000It's interesting in a because in an audition dynamic, like which anyone who's gonna succeed as an actor better get used to, you feel a little bit like weak in that environment.
00:38:47.000Like you see, you're kind of desperate, and you feel like the people on the other side of that table have got power over you and that you're very vulnerable.
00:38:57.000And so it's very, it's interesting to what I'm interested to note is that they, in that setup, didn't say, I'm not eating chicken no more, but in the scene, serve chicken.
00:39:13.000So, like, he must have known what the method of working was going to be as well.
00:39:18.000That the method of working would require sympathico and understanding, and there wasn't room for a bunch of handholding and kid gloving.
00:39:31.000And I think that they, you know, when you're doing improv, I think people either click, you know, and they know they, you know, I'm sure they did that in that way so they could see what decisions you were going to make quickly.
00:39:53.000If he would have said, I'm still eating chicken, you're not eating chicken, you know, then as a performer, I'm not, I'm not really wouldn't be adding that much, you know, because I wouldn't be adding the way, you know, my sensibility to the scene.
00:40:16.000Is that how like what the required dynamic is?
00:40:19.000Because in a way, what you were doing in curb was being, it seemed as a viewer, was being a foil, but any good foil brings something other than just continually teeing up the comic.
00:40:36.000And that's, and also you have the job of kind of having to be sympathetic and having to be like long-suffering and all them sort of tropes that we know from sitcom.
00:40:48.000I remember the first time I ever watched it, the first one I ever saw was that one where it's like, I think it's to do for like the birds singing and stuff.
00:40:53.000And it's you and Larry in the kitchen and like him saying that you wouldn't miss it if he couldn't hear better.
00:41:00.000And I remember like not even understanding why I was watching, like because just because of like the, you know, I don't know, I don't think it was earlier than the office.
00:41:08.000So I guess, you know, with sin stylistically, and of course, the office is after Spinal Tap, and there's been things like it.
00:41:15.000But I just thought, are they making this up?
00:41:17.000You know, like it was so exciting to watch as a comic and as a comic actor to see that type of dynamic on screen because it seemed so real.
00:41:28.000And I wasn't familiar with you before then.
00:41:31.000And I suppose not even Larry, actually, because all it really we knew Larry David from was, you know, little turns in Seinfeld or if you knew his stand-up or whatever.
00:41:40.000I thought it was like so cool and so brilliant and it really endured.
00:41:44.000And I'll say this to you: I don't think it was ever as good when you left it.
00:41:52.000Well, you know, it's fun because, you know, the thing that you're talking about, Curb, that's definitely, you know, what was unique about it because it was improvised and you never knew what was going to happen.
00:42:10.000I remember we were doing a scene with an actress named Julie Payne, who played my mom and Larry.
00:42:19.000And Larry and she were talking and she said, she asked Larry if he had a mint.
00:42:29.000You know, this isn't, there's no script, of course.
00:42:32.000And he digs in his pocket and he did have a mint.
00:43:17.000And then it's always debilitating, I think, when you're working on some creating something and it goes through that process of removing all of that stuff.
00:43:26.000And it's the level of ingenuity required to ensure the survival, as they call it in the Seinfeld documentary, running with the egg about the process of Jerry and Larry and the team of writers there, ensuring that an idea makes it through all of those processes of getting into the screen.
00:43:44.000And in the end, I've like I'm caught right now between sort of wanting to brutally cut off my own reminiscence and reflections on what it's like to be in films.
00:43:58.000Because whenever people ask me about films or whatever, I'm like, oh, it's boring.
00:44:00.000You're just waiting around all the time.
00:44:04.000There's too many important things happening in the world for me to just spend my time dicking around pretending to be another rock star in another hat.
00:44:11.000I want to be doing things that are connected to power and the world.
00:44:14.000But then other times I saw, you know, listening to you and that mint story.
00:44:21.000And like, like, losing that is hard, I think.
00:44:25.000Well, I, you know, I mean, I think the difference between you and me, Russell, I think you are, uh, tell me if I'm right or wrong.
00:44:35.000I could be wrong, but I think you, you're more of a all or nothing person, you know, like you, that's your survival.
00:44:45.000That's uh, and but and by the way, your um your situation is so much more extreme.
00:44:54.000You know, it is it it has been probably more dramatic for you, of course.
00:45:04.000Um, but for me, I, I mean, I'm producing a film right now with my ex-husband and it's uh funny and fun.
00:45:14.000So I'm able to, even though, uh, you know, I'm not, I'm not doing a sitcom right now.
00:45:21.000I'm not, you know, um, driving on to Warner Brothers every day.
00:45:28.000Um, but I'm doing something else that I love doing.
00:45:31.000That's that's I see it's still capturing those moments and you know, you still have it.
00:45:37.000And I hope that for you because I love you as a performer and so many people love you as a performer.
00:45:44.000And you have that thing that 99.99% people do not have.
00:45:53.000You're so fast, you're so funny, you're so quick, and you get comedy in a very unique way.
00:46:00.000And you have you, you still have that and people want to see it, you know?
00:46:05.000So that's pretty lovely of you to say.
00:46:09.000Before I met you the first time, I felt like it's going to be interesting to talk to Cheryl because I now am in this new world that I didn't anticipate being in.
00:46:19.000But in a sense, it's more native to me than the one I was in before, i.e., why did I ever find myself in Hollywood?
00:46:30.000And in a way, it is kind of appetite, creativity, all them kind of raw ingredients, they could go in a whole bunch of different directions.
00:46:40.000But our culture defaults to it's your job to monetize it.
00:46:44.000I always felt that I had both a kind of.
00:46:47.000a starving artist's love of what I do, inso much as I did do it for years without getting paid, doing stand-up comedy in the UK above pubs, not getting paid, open mic spots, traveling long distance to do 15 minutes here, 20 minutes there, Edinburgh Festival, all those things you have to do to make your bones.
00:47:06.000But also I had that kind of ferocious, vapid, almost reality TV style, like, duna, like, look at me.
00:47:16.000And like, it could have gone anywhere.
00:47:18.000And now like that the world is changing so fast and I'm changing so fast.
00:47:22.000It's what's interesting is, as you observe, the culture is so split that you don't need to be going on to the lot at Sony or Warner Brothers or wherever.
00:47:33.000There's an audience and therefore a market for you to make films and continue to make creative content outside of the old modality.
00:47:42.000There's even sort of burgeoning media empires now outside of the mainstream, whether it's Daily Wire or other sort of what you'd suppose call right wing.
00:47:52.000But in it weird though, for you to sort of, because like we were saying at the beginning, normally someone who has your views wouldn't be on the view.
00:48:10.000They wouldn't have like, you know, all of those people sort of get sort of like sifted out.
00:48:15.000So even though you're sort of seem to be saying that you're not in the way that you say that I am, and I reckon you're probably right, an extremist in a bunch of ways and you're happy to continue doing different versions of making films or making content or writing books or whatever, you know, you're still in it.
00:48:30.000You're in it because everyone's in it because the culture demands it.
00:48:33.000You know, like I think 20 years ago, Cheryl, they would have just gone, oh, you're married to Bobby Kennedy.
00:48:48.000And I just, I wonder how you're coping with that.
00:48:50.000And I wonder how you're coping with, not coping with, if, you know, I just want to say, I just want to get your perspective on you've lived in it in one of the sort of, what I would say is sort of like one of the crowning artifacts of the culture, an HBO, prestigious, brilliant, an innovative and well-executed show.
00:49:11.000And because of who you're married to and in love with, you're not allowed to do that no more.
00:49:17.000And like, what's weird about it too is that Larry David is someone I fucking adore, like, you know, never met, but adore.
00:49:23.000Like when he wrote that thing about Bill Maher and my dinner with Hitler, did you see that?
00:49:45.000By the way, but a lot of people, I was actually just talking to Bill yesterday and we were talking about this because, you know, just sharing the same air with someone like President Trump, that alone is enough for someone to, you know, for Larry to write a scathing, you know, op-ed or whatever,
00:50:18.000Just like, how dare you sit with the president?
00:50:23.000So it's, it's just a strange, um, but but you know what's interesting, Russell, what's uh what I'm what I'm seeing like on the inside is there is a bit of a counter culture going on with entertainment.
00:50:45.000I've met several, several people now who huge producers, actors that have moved out of LA and they are starting their own, their own studios.
00:51:02.000They are doing, I just talked to somebody who, you know, is starting his own studio because he he doesn't want politics to be involved.
00:51:17.000And he doesn't want someone saying, you know, you have to mention this cultural thing in this episode or this series.
00:51:30.000And, you know, he was talking to me and he said, he just wants, he just wants to make funny family films.
00:52:01.000So there is, there are people that are branching off and most likely not going to stay in LA.
00:52:07.000The people that I have talked to are, yeah, they're not in LA anymore.
00:52:11.000A lot of people are moving out and wanting to start something different.
00:52:18.000The kind of analysis that would be applied to the putative or projects that a Hollywood dude or, you know, creative person was talking about.
00:52:31.000Like, I just want to make things that are funny.
00:52:37.000You know, that's the hegemonics of that are that it was normalizing certain dynamics about a family and saying that if you're not included in a family, then you are a marginal figure in your jacket.
00:52:49.000And I feel like that that got out of control.
00:52:52.000That, you know, that you wouldn't just get notes from a studio that were like, oh, wouldn't it be good if this character did more of that?
00:52:59.000Or don't you think that character is too similar to that one?
00:53:01.000It's like being, you need a character that represents these ideals.
00:53:04.000And also, but what was behind all that was not any kind of integrity.
00:53:23.000I saw Seinfeld once say, and forget this, don't you think, you know, I know this is sort of tangential, although you would have worked with Jerry in the season 10, I think it was, where it was the Seinfeld reunion shows.
00:53:34.000Like, like Jerry Seinfeld was almost defined by the fact that he was a comedian talking about minutiae and normal life.
00:53:41.000Now, like Jerry Seinfeld, because of his position on Israel as a New York Jew, is like, gets people turning up at his shows and sharing stuff.
00:53:50.000So when did everything become so hostile?
00:53:54.000And the idea that people might just be making comedy that's only about itself and not everything can be about everything.
00:54:01.000And just because you're making a sitcom that's about family, that doesn't mean you're making a explicit comment about other lifestyles or races or religions or cultures.
00:54:11.000The whole thing, like the fact that Jerry Seinfeld can be a divisive person, I think tells you the world's gone mental because he was a genius, but a commentator on normality, the normalcy.
00:54:25.000You're right, because people are so judgmental and they are, you know, so right in the case of Jerry Seinfeld, you know, they want to know his views as a person politically before they decide if they want to listen to his comedy.
00:54:50.000So that's, yeah, it wasn't like this 20 years ago, was it?
00:57:02.000But, you know, it wasn't the path that I had been bushwhacking as an actor, you know, you're like going through the jungle making your own path.
00:57:15.000And then all of a sudden somebody else takes the, what is that thing called?
00:57:58.000He sends me some unusual photographs just to clarify mostly things he's been shooting.
00:58:02.000Like, you know, I'm not talking about erotica.
00:58:07.000He, like he, I know that, you know, like that you've dedicated the book to your nephew, God rest his soul, Michael.
00:58:15.000And I remember when Michael passed, and I remember how impactful that was on your family.
00:58:25.000We have a child who has had medical complications, and it seems somehow to have a divine component that being in the company of someone, it's particularly a child, I suppose, in both these instances, there's something about it that brings you closer to God or at least truth, I suppose, if you don't believe in God.
00:58:50.000Can you talk to us a little bit about Michael, why you dedicated the book to him and what your relationship with him was like?
00:59:00.000Yeah, you make a very good point because before Michael was born, you know, he was born with cerebral palsy, so he was very limited with his physicality.
01:01:48.000Because I think that what happens is that we all adopt without understanding it a set of criteria about what a person is supposed to be, what a relationship is supposed to be, what our assumed objectives are.
01:02:01.000And those things are generally dictated and determined by the culture, unless you have a very deliberately spiritual life, unless you've located these other principles by which I will be guided.
01:02:12.000And I reckon, additionally, to my perhaps whatever feelings of being spurned or wounded by what happened with me, to me, for me, in the culture, being cancelled, etc.
01:02:24.000In addition to that, is my sort of subsequent sense that that culture is geared towards goals that I don't agree with.
01:02:30.000And the reason that you and your husband in particular are interesting to me, other than the fact that I love you both, is that it helps me to understand that that culture is inauthentic and not reliable.
01:02:43.000In storytelling, as you will be aware, it's a process of revelation.
01:02:47.000Good storytelling is when do you get the information?
01:02:50.000Character is revealed through the events.
01:02:57.000When you know someone who's never going to be a participant in the culture because they can't work or make money or be sexy or do whatever it is you're supposed to do in that particular part of the culture, you're kind of confronted by what are they anyway?
01:03:14.000And one time someone said to me, a Swami he happened to be, that a little girl had said that she was real excited before her younger sibling was born.
01:03:24.000And when the sibling was born paraplegic and with cerebral palsy, she says she was disappointed and angry that she wasn't going to get the sibling that she'd imagined.
01:03:36.000But as her relationship with the sibling grew, she said, My sister doesn't understand if you get angry.
01:03:42.000She doesn't understand if you're frustrated.
01:03:45.000But if you smile and if you're loving, she will understand and she will smile.
01:03:50.000And in that is the revelation that we are trying to find love and express love in a variety of unique ways.
01:03:57.000And probably I think that all of the people that I admire, I can tell in my interactions with them that they are in the service of love.
01:04:06.000Not all of the time, because if that would be Christ, but you can see that generally they are so motivated by love that they will let it destroy them if it has to, if it has to destroy them.
01:04:18.000And sometimes it takes people that just don't have the option of participating in, say, for example, if you have a disability, what's regarded, obviously, understandably as a disability, then you get it.
01:04:31.000You get it concentrated in your interaction with them.
01:04:34.000You sort of say, oh my God, the beauty, the God is in this person and God is in me and that God is love.
01:04:41.000I can feel it in my interactions with them.
01:05:53.000He's been pretty, You know, I always hear writers and talk about their publishers and their publishers mad because they didn't turn in the pages.
01:06:04.000I did not have that experience with Tony.
01:06:06.000Tony's just been, yes, write what you want to write.
01:07:15.000Hey, Cheryl, thanks very much for coming on here.
01:07:17.000And there's bits of the conversation actually where I really was forced to sort of think about my own relationship with, you know, creativity and, you know, my own sort of injuries around that kind of stuff.
01:07:27.000So it's really informative and instructive.
01:07:31.000I wish you all the best with this book.
01:07:33.000Thank you very much for making time for us today.
01:08:25.000If you ain't got Rumble Premium yet, get Rumble Premium now.
01:08:28.000This Friday, we will be doing another show with deep dives into a variety of subjects.
01:08:33.000And let me tell you what some of those subjects are going to be.
01:08:35.000With having a look at flu and vaccines and how Senator Kennedy is impacting and affecting that world.
01:08:40.000We're talking about the Obama legacy and the vite of him in the light of him building that great big monument to himself, some mad Kubla Khan monument and asking, what does he mean really?
01:08:49.000Was Obama the moment when America really lost hope in politics?
01:08:53.000You know, because what the left will say is Trump is a moment, but I remember how they were about Bush, man.
01:08:57.000We're talking about Bill Gates on climate change.
01:09:00.000We're talking about Bill Gates as one of the master architects of the global imperialist order.
01:09:05.000And we're talking about a total loss of faith in corrupt pharmacology.