Stay Free - Russel Brand - Gavin de Becker | Fear, Freedom & Resisting Control - SF642

00:00:07.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Blackford Brandon.

00:00:09.000 Russell Russell conspiracy theory.

00:00:12.000 Trying to bring real journalism to the American people.

00:00:16.000 Hello there, you're awakening wonders.

00:00:18.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brown.

00:00:20.000 I'm talking to Gavin DeBecker, who wrote that book there, Forbidden Facts, which is a study not only of the pandemic period, that uses information available from some of the regulatory bodies that we empowered during that period to debunk the very ideas that they put forward,

00:00:38.000 like the efficacy of vaccines, the importance of social distancing, but also the precedent to that period that was established through institutions like the Institute of Medicine that appear to me to be little more than a rubber stamping organization that says what the government needed to say for people to take the medications that they need him to take or not have the lawsuits that they might otherwise undertake were it not for the Institute of Medicine.

00:01:03.000 There's this is an incredible conversation.

00:01:05.000 Gavin De Becker is a free-time presidential appointee.

00:01:07.000 He's worked for governments, he's a criminologist, and he approaches the subject of the pandemic and vaccines.

00:01:12.000 It seems to me at least, not from the perspective of a doctor, but from the perspective of a criminologist.

00:01:19.000 And if you look at the period of the pandemic, that perhaps might be a better approach.

00:01:25.000 Because it seems when you read that book, sorry, that book.

00:01:30.000 What took place during the pandemic period was an unprecedented crime.

00:01:34.000 Let me know what you think.

00:01:35.000 It's an extraordinary conversation.

00:01:38.000 You're going to learn a great deal from it.

00:01:40.000 I know I did.

00:01:41.000 Wherever you're watching it, join us on Rumble.

00:01:43.000 And if you want to get Gavin DeBecker's book, click the link in the description.

00:01:46.000 We'll be giving away some as well.

00:01:47.000 No, we won't, we've not sorted out that competition.

00:01:49.000 You're going to just simply have to buy it.

00:01:51.000 Here's my conversation with Gavin DeBecker.

00:01:55.000 Thanks for joining us today, Gavin DeBecker, to talk about your book, Forbidden Facts, subtitle to be discussed and potentially altered.

00:02:05.000 What I and thanks for joining me.

00:02:07.000 It's lovely.

00:02:08.000 Thank you, too.

00:02:09.000 What I was um surprised by is not just, of course, what you say about vaccines, which is a subject that we all understand that's been somewhat divisive, but uh the arguments that you build using examples like the somewhat famous Johnson ⁇ Johnson baby powder asbestos argument,

00:02:26.000 the acknowledgement of mercury and the toxicity of ethylmercury in vaccines, but also the story about Agent Orange and the way that the Institute of Medicine l seemed to be used as an organization to legitimize or sort of somehow morally backdate arguments for interested clients.

00:02:47.000 Would that be a good place to start the relationship between vaccine manufacturers and the Institute of Medicine and how how they were used with Agent Orange during the Vietnam on Vietnam War and the post-Vietnam era?

00:03:00.000 It is a good place to start, and I think it shows that there's a process.

00:03:04.000 The Institute of Medicine is revered, of course, you know, very major experts and people who are esteemed, and it's part of the National Academies of Science.

00:03:14.000 And so when they say something, that's always been taken very seriously.

00:03:18.000 What people are unaware of, that I'm glad to disclose in this book, is that the Institute of Medicine and the National Academies of Science both are not government agencies.

00:03:28.000 They are private organizations.

00:03:30.000 The guy who runs the National Academies of Science, which the Institute of Medicine is underneath of, is a guy who has a $1.1 million salary.

00:03:39.000 It is an organization that is funded by government agencies at times, by pharma companies at times, by other corporations at times.

00:03:47.000 And really its function is to give a kind of scientific legitimacy to arguments that the government has wanted to make anyway, For example, Agent Orange was a compound that for ten years was sprayed on uh uh plants and jungles in Vietnam and human beings.

00:04:07.000 And uh it had in it one of the most toxic substances there is called dioxin.

00:04:12.000 And dioxin caused all variety of health problems for people and for their offspring, uh, who would often be born deformed.

00:04:19.000 And so when soldiers complained about this coming back from Vietnam, they uh they were met by a federal government that said, no, no, no, that's not from Agent Orange.

00:04:29.000 Surely Agent Orange is only to uh is only to defoliate the jungle.

00:04:34.000 It's not a chemical weapon for God's sake.

00:04:36.000 Well, of course it is a chemical weapon when it lands on you, and uh and many people had these health problems.

00:04:41.000 So the government turns to the Institute of Medicine and says, You esteemed scientists, you you look into this and you dig into this and you let us know your answer.

00:04:50.000 And their answer always, always, always is no connection.

00:04:56.000 What possible connection could we see between dioxin on people and and these uh these medical problems?

00:05:01.000 And so they did a study and they end up being uh rather than science, it's uh crisis management for the federal government.

00:05:10.000 They end up coming out with report after report.

00:05:12.000 In the case of Agent Orange, they came out and they said no no connection whatsoever.

00:05:16.000 Why in the world would you compensate soldiers for the injuries they had or their offspring had, because in reality there's no uh there's no connection.

00:05:24.000 We don't find a connection.

00:05:26.000 We can't find it, which is sort of in the category of uh we're not looking.

00:05:30.000 Uh we can't find it.

00:05:31.000 And so they come out with a report, and then two years later they do another report.

00:05:36.000 And uh the first report says uh additional studies needed.

00:05:40.000 That was the conclusion, studies needed.

00:05:42.000 Second report, uh studies needed.

00:05:45.000 Third report, studies needed.

00:05:47.000 Uh about eight of these studies needed.

00:05:49.000 Uh and they they basically uh you know never land a punch on anything uh serious.

00:05:55.000 They never come to any serious conclusion that there might be culpability about something used by the U.S. government.

00:06:01.000 So what's Agent Orange got to do with vaccination?

00:06:04.000 Well, the two top scientists who ran the Agent Orange study for the Institute of Medicine, they were uh uh graduated or promoted to childhood vaccines afterwards, having just done this really shami and scammy report on uh uh on Agent Orange. 0.94

00:06:21.000 And so this, you know, idea that this is an authoritative independent body, the Institute of Medicine, uh, is really, really bullshit. 0.83

00:06:31.000 Really not true. 0.82

00:06:32.000 And I want to give a quick digression and a long answer.

00:06:35.000 You, who are famous for long questions, uh deserve to get a long answer from somebody.

00:06:40.000 Um there was a there's a book called Hitler's Professors, and it is a book about uh about scientists who were funded by the Hitler regime.

00:06:49.000 Remember, Hitler is originally elected democratically. 0.81

00:06:52.000 He's uh in office for twelve years before they begin any of their methodical killing. 0.64

00:06:58.000 And years before that methodical killing began, they funded scientists to do studies saying, look, the Jews spread disease. 0.89

00:07:06.000 They are genetically inclined to spread disease, they hurt the economy in the following way. 0.95

00:07:10.000 Hitler's professors. 0.77

00:07:12.000 Professors are often used, research is often used to support the direction that government wants to go in anyway.

00:07:19.000 And not only can you always find a study that says what you want, but you can always fund a study that says what you want.

00:07:27.000 And the Institute of Medicine is at the center of that.

00:07:30.000 And uh uh so i it you know, should we question, well, they're the science.

00:07:35.000 I'll tell you a really interesting thing.

00:07:37.000 W okay to go with a long answer?

00:07:39.000 Okay.

00:07:40.000 Uh when they were then later asked to do a study on uh whether vaccines cause uh uh brain damage, for example, including autism, uh they convened, and it's this very special scientists and all esteemed and and well regarded and all those adjectives,

00:07:57.000 and uh they did a report and they issued a report to put to rest finally once and for all whether or not these vaccine products, including those with mercury could possibly do brain damage, which is exactly what mercury does when it harms the human body is brain damage.

00:08:13.000 So they come out with their report, and everybody hears it and everybody publishes, et cetera.

00:08:18.000 What uh they people don't know is that that uh study did not involve anybody in white lab coats, no microscopes, no mic microscopy, I mean no v l uh autopsy reports, no uh scientists in in uh you know operating with beakers under under a fire, none of that stuff.

00:08:37.000 What it actually was was just a closed door series of meetings, right?

00:08:42.000 And in those meetings, they were told on day one, they were given two pronouncements on day one.

00:08:47.000 Number one, nothing you say in here will ever be heard outside.

00:08:51.000 Uh that turned out to be wrong because some lovely person leaked the transcripts. 0.99

00:08:55.000 And this book has the transcripts in it and and has the discussions that they had.

00:08:59.000 And the second thing They were told is the line we will not cross.

00:09:04.000 Is to change the childhood vaccine schedule.

00:09:06.000 That's the line we will not cross.

00:09:08.000 So you mean you're asked to look at whether vaccines might cause brain damage, but the line you will not cross is finding that they might c cause uh brain damage.

00:09:16.000 And so somebody leaked these transcripts, and you you get to see how this thing actually works.

00:09:23.000 And all they talk about in that room.

00:09:26.000 Uh those rooms, because they convened us over several years, three years.

00:09:29.000 All they talk about is how to say it.

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00:10:58.000 That's a lot too for us to uh analyze.

00:11:03.000 What my first impression is that the Institute of Medicine is presented as a legitimate organization that conducts legitimate science and whose information you can rely on.

00:11:13.000 But they're in a sense, as was you said towards the end of your extraordinary encyclopedic answer, was that in a way the conclusion had been established prior to the inquiry.

00:11:24.000 Of course.

00:11:25.000 And the and that was we will not cross that line.

00:11:27.000 So any endeavour undertaken on that premise is in its in a way it's it's revealed that what's taking place is the legitimization of a predetermined outcome rather than genuine inquiry.

00:11:39.000 And w what I enjoyed about your book is that I felt that I was being armed with facts that backed up what to me was pr an intuitive understanding that only science that is profitable is being conducted.

00:11:54.000 No one's funding clinical trials that conclude that Pfizer can't make profits in this way, or Merck or Moderna can't make profits in this way because why would anybody fund those studies?

00:12:05.000 Why would anyone fund unprofitable studies?

00:12:09.000 Elsewhere in our conversations, we we've had it explained to us, disclose to us, that a kind of warping uh of e even within the realm of pharma and medicine has taken place because of the unique, unique stu uh unique legal status granted to vaccines, it means there's an undue bias because there's indemnity from prosecution if there's any injury from any of their products.

00:12:28.000 It just makes more sense to make a product from which there can be no legal consequences.

00:12:34.000 I also enjoyed uh when you were talking about the uh institute of medicine, how we're sort of uh invited to regard them as an authoritative and reliable institution, but in a sense they're just a financial entity.

00:12:49.000 And it reminded me a bit of how in the the financial crisis of 2008, various categories and awards have been grinded.

00:12:57.000 This is a triple A set of mortgages, these things are reliable.

00:13:00.000 But under scrutiny, these are all interwoven institutions that are reliant on the same outcome.

00:13:07.000 So they aren't gonna uh oppose the the trajectory that they're all participants in and the requirements that they all have.

00:13:15.000 So whether it's financial crime, which is sort of somewhat by its nature diffuse, or what appears to be a kind of medical crime, in fact, when reading the book, there are points where, you know, because you range between describing very beautifully the manner in which language can be altered in order to make a definition or diagnosis even impossible to render,

00:13:38.000 in particular with autism, sort of enjoyable stuff about words where like we're in the territory of literal absurdism, in fact.

00:13:46.000 Um But then of course there are personal anecdotes where someone just describes how their daughter had a bunch of MMR jabs or simultaneous inoculations and then was never the same.

00:13:56.000 So you're kind of dragged around a little bit emotionally when reading this book into dealing with the personal impact of these decisions, the kind of risable ideology that it demonstrates.

00:14:06.000 The fact that, like you said, that what there's uh has emerged is a kind of peculiar new technocracy, no different than if you'd get a if you asked a lot of theologians uh, you know, in a pre-secular society, can you find something in the Bible that's gonna justify us doing this?

00:14:20.000 Because we're doing it and we need to justify it using the Bible, and some poor sod in a monastery somewhere might go, I suppose you could use this passage to justify that.

00:14:30.000 I mean, it would be terrible and unethical, but come back they're already out the door using it to legitimize it.

00:14:37.000 So, like in a way, uh I talked to uh to the the publisher of this book from uh Skyhawks Publishing, Tony Lyons.

00:14:43.000 So there's points where it seems evil, evil, like he's a that the word sort of looms large, you're dealing with a kind of demonic force.

00:14:51.000 Who would continue to use these compounds in these products except unless they were evil?

00:14:58.000 So now that we've established that one of the ways they do it is through false verification of information that's financially beneficial to you to them.

00:15:05.000 I wonder when compiling this, if you were at times struck with something that seemed unnerving and frightening and difficult to understand, because if they if they why are so many institutions willing to participate in this s sort of murderous endeavor.

00:15:22.000 Well, it's a good question, and uh the the easy one for me is was I ever disturbed uh you know, very, very much so.

00:15:28.000 This book is downright funny.

00:15:32.000 It's absolutely funny at times, and at the same in the same sense it's absolutely enraging.

00:15:37.000 What's funny is seeing the dialogue of these chuckleheads, the way they're talking to each other and and and the things they're talking about, believing that they will never be heard, uh, where they are uh you know acknowledging the the absolute silliness of their endeavor.

00:15:52.000 They're saying it point blank.

00:15:53.000 One of them says, if we were a company, if we were a group working for Philip Morris, we'd be saying uh tobacco doesn't cause cancer.

00:16:02.000 Literally says that in one of the things.

00:16:03.000 So there it's almost like a Broadway play when you get the dialogue going back and forth.

00:16:07.000 And then every single time I look at one of the passages in this book, it pisses me off.

00:16:13.000 Because then you're wondering how can it be that the Institute of Medicine does a report to Congress saying don't pay anybody for agent orange injuries.

00:16:21.000 That's what this is always about, is compensation to people who are injured.

00:16:25.000 And then Admiral Zumwalt does an independent study of the same thing, same issue, and he concludes I'm reading it here, the government and industry officials credited with examining this intentionality, intentionally manipulated or withheld compelling information of the adverse health effects associated with exposure to the toxic contaminants contained in Agent Orange.

00:16:47.000 Now, his review and his testimony before Congress that I just read a piece of is triply dramatic because his own he ordered Agent Orange to be sprayed in Vietnam and his own son died from it.

00:17:00.000 And so he has particular credibility in coming in and saying uh you know that this thing is uh that this study by the IOM is absolutely you know ridiculous.

00:17:11.000 And then we we get to see that and this is a key point.

00:17:15.000 If you can embrace that the Institute of Medicine paid for by the federal government, uh lied and deceived and suppressed information that Americans ought to know about because they're giving their kids vaccines or they're using Johnson and Johnson baby powder, which has asbestos in it and causes cancer, or any of these things that they did.

00:17:36.000 If you can embrace that, uh then you can embrace that the same thing might have happened with mRNA vaccines in our time.

00:17:45.000 And so when you look at the uh what I try to do in this book is identify all these cases.

00:17:50.000 I I mentioned baby powder a minute ago.

00:17:52.000 So you have Johnson and Johnson baby powder, when fifty years ago, Johnson and Johnson itself asked for a special meeting and said a delegation to the FDA in Washington.

00:18:04.000 And they said, look, we have to tell you something.

00:18:06.000 There's a tiny bit of asbestos in our product.

00:18:09.000 It's not a lot, it's not it's not a bad thing, but it uh we want to let you know.

00:18:13.000 And the FDA says, well, we're gonna study how much asbestos should be allowed in baby powder while allowing it, by the way.

00:18:22.000 And then they allow it for maybe uh one decade, no sorry, it's two, no sorry it's three, no sorry it's four.

00:18:29.000 They actually said that it was uh unhealthy to babies in 2024, which by my count is just a year ago.

00:18:38.000 So it took them more than fifty years to to acknowledge what they already knew and to say, yes, Johnson's baby powder and other baby powders, nah, it's not good for your baby, that's not good for you.

00:18:49.000 This is after lots of people got cancer, by the way, and so now uh it no longer has asbestos in it.

00:18:54.000 So you're talking about something literally sprinkled on babies.

00:18:58.000 What's the difference between that and something injected into babies, uh, for example, that had you know mercury in it.

00:19:04.000 Now mercury is interesting.

00:19:05.000 If any audience member wants to, go to ChatGPT or Grok or whoever you use and ask if mercury is uh is dangerous if you touch it.

00:19:15.000 And it will say mercury in any amount is uh is lethal in any amount.

00:19:20.000 What about if you breathe it?

00:19:21.000 Uh yep, any amount, you can't breathe it.

00:19:23.000 What about if you eat it? 0.85

00:19:24.000 Are you crazy, says ChatGPT, in any quantity, it's no good. 0.97

00:19:28.000 What about if you inject it? 0.99

00:19:30.000 Pause, pause, pause.

00:19:32.000 Well, it's been determined that small amounts, trace amounts in vaccines uh is okay.

00:19:38.000 And so if I want to inject it myself, ChatGPT will say no way, or if you got the Chat GPT discussion.

00:19:44.000 Yeah, uh it's good, it's funny.

00:19:46.000 Uh if I want to inject it into myself, Chat B Chat GPT will say no, no, please don't.

00:19:51.000 Uh but if I want to let this company that has no liability, Merck, for example, they cannot be sued because of the 1986 law that prohibits uh uh any lawsuits against vaccine companies.

00:20:03.000 If they want to inject it into my baby, that's okay.

00:20:06.000 That's all right.

00:20:07.000 So here's this product that under all circumstances.

00:20:10.000 I mean, if a if a uh uh fluorescent bulb falls in a school and breaks, they call a hazmat team to clean it up because it has mercury inside, old-style fluorescent bulbs.

00:20:21.000 It's it's just outrageously toxic.

00:20:23.000 It's right under radioactivity in terms of toxicity to human beings.

00:20:27.000 And yet it appeared in vaccines and and then the Institute of Medicine and others lied and said it was removed from vaccines in 2001.

00:20:36.000 It wasn't.

00:20:37.000 It A, it took till 2005 to remove any of it.

00:20:40.000 But there until right now, until right now under Bobby Kennedy, it was still in six vaccine products given to children.

00:20:47.000 And that's in America.

00:20:48.000 Around the world, hundreds of millions of doses given to people uh and children in other countries with mercury in it. 0.99

00:20:56.000 Are you fucking kidding? 0.99

00:20:57.000 It's fucking okay. 0.99

00:20:58.000 Uh sorry, I won't do it all the time. 0.96

00:21:00.000 Depends who's doing it, Gavin.

00:21:01.000 Uh, I meant is the word okay.

00:21:02.000 I knew the stuff was okay, because that that's uh that I I I accept completely.

00:21:06.000 But i th the the idea that that there are companies, so you said you brought up evil.

00:21:12.000 Uh it's it's a whole system, meaning you have the government involved, you have the the incentives all broken because National Institutes of Health, for example, and uh NIAD, the shop that was run by Tony Fauci, um, they actually get uh uh royalties for the products that are developed by NIH.

00:21:32.000 So the individual scientists, sixteen hundred of them, one thousand six hundred, get royalties from these products.

00:21:38.000 The first check to come from Moderna was four hundred and thirty million dollars to the NIH.

00:21:43.000 That's distributed up to a hundred thousand dollars a year for life for NIH scientists.

00:21:48.000 So do you think they're likely to want to approve something or say, no, no, no, that's too dangerous?

00:21:53.000 I reckon that those biases could impact them personally.

00:21:57.000 Uh i uh sometimes the question that's on the very edge of my mind is why do you want asbestos in baby powder?

00:22:04.000 Why do you want mercury in in vaccines?

00:22:07.000 W in one of the parts of the book you took about early vaccine medicine and experimentation and how it has a kind of almost Shakespearean c kind of uh tincture component to it.

00:22:17.000 I have new and sort of scum scraped off oils and like this again, I feel like we're on the edge of occultism, and uh but I recognize that with a and uh with an undertaking of this nature, it's difficult uh you one has to remain within what is corroboratable because of the conditions that are laying before us.

00:22:38.000 And uh I feel like from my own uh relationship with this book, the the silver bullet that may emerge is the way that you describe the debunking of a connection between autism and vaccines, around which the conversation globally is visibly and perceptibly shifting,

00:22:58.000 and it's become clear that something that uh i uh it gives me vertigo to think that we might be on the edge of p of an announcement along the lines of vaccines are connected to autism.

00:23:12.000 You near the book, after laying out the agent orange to report your own book back to you, uh it's the you move on to describing the process of how the debunking of the connection between vaccines and autism was undertaken.

00:23:26.000 Uh I'd love to talk about that for a bit.

00:23:27.000 And what I was really struck by, and what seemed like r diabolical, diabolical to me, in the most literal sense actually, when I think of division and splitting and creating confusion, is that the what the changing of the definition of the word vaccine and the changing of the de the sort of deliberate amorphous nature of a diagnosis uh like autism.

00:23:48.000 Because important though the subjects in this book are in and of themselves, they point to something even greater, which seems to be the ability to control reality, to control language, to control institutes that verify and authenticate ideas, you know that the the right hand comes up with an idea and the left hand rubber stamps it,

00:24:07.000 and we're supposed to see that as a system of integrity, even beyond something as significant as big pharma, which is obviously a subject m people are becoming a lot more cynical, skeptical, and outraged about, even though people have an astonishing level of amnesia, I sometimes think,

00:24:23.000 and uh maybe we're all participants in this, that we're not on the edge of continual visceral rage about this, but more likely to be provoked by secondary cultural issues, in fact, like I don't know, what does cracker barrel look like these days when you walk past it if you've got any sense?

00:24:38.000 Um so I wonder if um I wonder if you'd tell me a little bit about that process of debunking and something about the what you take from the manipulation of language that comes up a lot in this book.

00:24:50.000 Yeah, I'd say though that this book, if I were going to identify two things that it's really meant to do is one is to focus people on language and to not be vulnerable to the shifting definitions, and uh and then secondarily, uh as all my books are are about uh personal responsibility, meaning you don't leave this up to the government or the police department or the manager of the apartment building or the corporate executives or boardroom, you have to make these decisions on your own.

00:25:16.000 So if if you'll promise to bring me back to the vaccine ingredients, then I'll uh answer your question under those limited circumstances.

00:25:24.000 Okay, I'm signing here, and I've got the Institute of Medicine to verify that this is my signature.

00:25:31.000 Uh so uh uh on the question of debunking.

00:25:34.000 So what happens is that everybody knows that uh you know uh gravity is the force that pulls people toward the center of the earth.

00:25:41.000 Everybody knows the uh the earth uh rotates around the sun, and these things are just taken for granted.

00:25:47.000 And just as strong as that, I would say just about everybody knows that the idea of a link between vaccines and autism has been debunked.

00:25:56.000 And all kinds of intelligent people will say to you, but that's been debunked, that's been debunked.

00:26:00.000 You know that's been debunked, don't you?

00:26:02.000 But ah, that's been debunked.

00:26:03.000 It's a very common hand-waving argument.

00:26:05.000 And yet just about nobody can answer these two simple questions.

00:26:10.000 Who debunked it?

00:26:11.000 And how was it debunked?

00:26:12.000 There's even a third question.

00:26:13.000 Why was it debunked?

00:26:14.000 Suddenly the conversation's over.

00:26:16.000 They can't tell you, oh well uh well here's who debunked it.

00:26:19.000 The Institute of Medicine debunked it.

00:26:21.000 And uh and and you know, how did they debunk it?

00:26:24.000 By the method I described to you earlier, they get a group of experts together, they sometimes have public hearings, they assess the uh the the issue in in terms of how it needs to be concluded, and they use the same process they use for agent orange, not only the same process, Russell, the same people and the same language.

00:26:45.000 I uh in the book I I list the five categories that they had to choose from for Agent Orange. 0.82

00:26:51.000 Things like no association, meaning no association between Agent Orange and birth defects, um a limited association, uh no evidence of an association, A possible association, none of the options, by the way, being holy shit, yes, that's one of them.

00:27:07.000 But they list them and and I list them in the book, and I say which one of these are the categories for vaccines, childhood vaccines, and which one of these are the categories for uh Agent Orange, the chemical weapon.

00:27:19.000 And both.

00:27:20.000 The answer is both.

00:27:22.000 They are the same categories in each circumstance.

00:27:24.000 So that while parents wouldn't love the idea that their childhood vaccines are assessed in the same way that a chemical weapon is assessed, uh, that is actually the reality.

00:27:32.000 And so once you say debunked, you basically anybody who will ask a question after that is either crazy or a conspiracy theorist or insane or sinister in some way, or or all four, right?

00:27:48.000 You're you're basically as crazy as Bobby Kennedy if you continue to question something that's been debunked because it's been debunked.

00:27:55.000 Now, what happens in in this book humorously is that I I talk about how they debunked the connection between uh baby powder and cancer, for example. 0.96

00:28:05.000 That one got rebunked, my own word, meaning it kept coming back.

00:28:10.000 They debunked it, but it kept coming back and it kept coming back until finally even the FDA had to say, okay, okay, asbestos is bad for babies.

00:28:17.000 You know asbestos, that stuff we remove from the wall, that stuff we condemn buildings over.

00:28:22.000 Um, yeah, we agree now you shouldn't sprinkle it on babies. 0.75

00:28:25.000 That's the the rebunking, basically. 1.00

00:28:27.000 But the debunking piece, it it says if you question this, you're stupid, you're anti-science, and uh you're an idiot because it's been debunked. 0.97

00:28:37.000 And the reality is that uh uh the when you see the method by which these things are supposedly debunked, you recognize uh how how flawed it is, how all the incentives are broken, what clearly the US government cannot do its own homework, which is what, you know, great its own homework, which is what's happening when it says, who let's see, where can we send a check to somebody where they'll agree that uh burn pits don't cause cancer, burn pits don't make you sick. 0.98

00:29:02.000 Why it may even be good to be breathing the smoke from burn pits.

00:29:05.000 Or uh Gulf War Syndrome.

00:29:07.000 What?

00:29:08.000 Huh?

00:29:08.000 What's Gulf War Syndrome?

00:29:09.000 Let's uh give it to the Institute of Medicine and they'll figure this out for us.

00:29:12.000 And and surely they did.

00:29:13.000 Guess what?

00:29:14.000 No problem, no Gulf War Syndrome. 0.60

00:29:16.000 Never mind that the Veterans Administration and university after university found that Gulf War Syndrome was a very real thing.

00:29:23.000 Uh the Institute of Medicine didn't agree.

00:29:25.000 And uh and and they are, after all, the Institute of Medicine.

00:29:29.000 And so that's debunking and how it works and why we should never be persuaded that that word uh uh ought to govern because I'm laughing because there's a there's a uh section in this book where the uh spokesperson for Johnson and Johnson, they lose all these criminal, I mean, all these uh trials, right?

00:29:49.000 And trials are a real test of information, right?

00:29:51.000 A trial has experts from both sides, etc.

00:29:53.000 They lose and they lose and they lose.

00:29:55.000 And then finally the FDA comes around and says, okay, okay, maybe it's bad.

00:30:00.000 Asbestos.

00:30:01.000 And a Johnson and Johnson spokesperson says, uh, well, we believe that all of these studies are flawed.

00:30:07.000 And I I have a joke in there that if she were the last survivor on earth of baby powder poisoning, she'd still be reading that press statement.

00:30:15.000 You know, that's what she's doing. 1.00

00:30:17.000 And it is so debunking is a very powerful uh method.

00:30:21.000 You know, the JFK was assassinated by a conspiracy as opposed to an individual.

00:30:25.000 Oh, that's been debunked.

00:30:26.000 That's been debunked.

00:30:28.000 You always have to ask, and what I hope readers of this book will do after reading it is ask who debunked it, ask why it was debunked.

00:30:35.000 You know, interesting, by the way, I I I said the two questions were who debunked it and how.

00:30:40.000 Yeah.

00:30:40.000 But the third question is why.

00:30:42.000 And I'll tell you why it had to be debunked.

00:30:44.000 Had nothing to do with Bobby Kennedy.

00:30:46.000 Everybody thinks Bobby Kennedy is the source of all things to do with vaccines.

00:30:49.000 At that point, Bobby Kennedy had already vaccinated seven of his kids.

00:30:53.000 He'd already uh he was now working on mercury and fish.

00:30:56.000 Nobody ever called him anti-fish.

00:30:58.000 Uh, but as soon as he talked about mercury in vaccines, they called him anti-vaccine.

00:31:02.000 But years before that, there was study after study after study about the association between vaccines and autism, for God's sake.

00:31:12.000 It wasn't something that came up out of nowhere, and that's why it needed to be debunked.

00:31:16.000 Because of all those studies, not to mention the thousands and thousands of parents who said my baby was fine, even sometimes my four-year-old child was fine, and then we had that day of three or four vaccines, and when we came home that night, she had terrible Seizures.

00:31:31.000 Which by the way, the Institute of Medicine and the uh and the FDA will tell you seizures.

00:31:35.000 Seizures is totally normal for babies.

00:31:37.000 That's called we give it a name.

00:31:39.000 It's called febrile seizures, and it's just fine, no problem.

00:31:42.000 And uh why are you even worried about that just because you ended up in the emergency room?

00:31:46.000 It's the second leading cause, by the way, of emergency room visits is seizures after vaccines.

00:31:51.000 But the the veteran the veterinarians, the uh pediatricians could be either will tell you, oh babies have seizures.

00:31:57.000 Now can you imagine a product for adults?

00:32:01.000 And it said uh oh, side effect will be seizures.

00:32:04.000 It's no problem, don't even call us about it.

00:32:06.000 Just let the baby go to sleep. 0.98

00:32:07.000 But it's adults, right?

00:32:08.000 The reason that adult seizures would be a problem is because they might happen when you're driving or you're standing up and you fall down.

00:32:14.000 But infants, of course, they're already falling down, they're laying down.

00:32:17.000 So it's no problem, seizures.

00:32:19.000 Um this thing that panicked you to madness that your parents are screaming at and through traffic to get to the emergency room.

00:32:25.000 Well, it's no problem, it's just a febrile seizure.

00:32:27.000 And that's what they had to do because of vaccine induced seizures.

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00:33:34.000 And so it this is these are some of the ways that debunking.

00:33:37.000 That's it, rebrand seizures as a seizure a day, it's not that bad.

00:33:42.000 It keeps the doctor away.

00:33:43.000 Yeah, the occasional seizures good for a child.

00:33:45.000 How else will they grow robust against future seizures?

00:33:49.000 And the sort of dreadful utility implicit in because a baby's not operating a combine harvester or driving a taxi cab, it can have seizures as long as it wants and as frequently as it wants to.

00:34:00.000 Remember before you go to your question.

00:34:02.000 I know, you've I've got invited to remind you of the uh ingredients of vaccines.

00:34:05.000 You remembered.

00:34:05.000 Of course I did.

00:34:06.000 I wrote it down here in your book, as a matter of fact, a kind of addendum.

00:34:09.000 Here's why it's it's b can I do it now?

00:34:12.000 Well, what about if we circle back?

00:34:14.000 Don't you feel good?

00:34:16.000 Don't you think that we'll get back to it?

00:34:18.000 I don't know, we'll see what happens.

00:34:19.000 Because what I like about this bit here, what I like is the uh continual sense that underneath this data must be an agenda or an objective, and again, that I keep uh uh r locating the idea of evil within it.

00:34:35.000 Now, when it comes to anecdotal evidence, which is another of those terms that's been kind of tarnished, like that it's a sort of akin to uh adjacent to lying.

00:34:45.000 Now that's just an anecdote.

00:34:46.000 That's just uh like it's some breezy raconteur and in the corner of above.

00:34:51.000 Or uh or or uh you know, correlation is not causation.

00:34:55.000 Yes.

00:34:55.000 Oh, and you follow the science.

00:34:56.000 Oh, you're a doctor all of a sudden you've got an opinion on this, have you?

00:35:00.000 Like I remember all of that, of course, at the height of COVID.

00:35:04.000 But what's uh a gay what the the the what's delicious about this is a correlative to perhaps all of our intuitive sense when there is something being suppressed is now technology exists to so that you have in real time all of these kind of nodal accounts in contemporaneously with hey, 0.79

00:35:22.000 I took that vaccine and like then I felt all asthmatic, or I you know fainted, or myocarditis, or you know, as it was in the vaccine era, all of us experienced what seemed like a jarring number of athletes like passing out, fainting, and in some cases dying.

00:35:39.000 And that had to be repackaged as normal, whether it's seizures or mercury, anything can be repackaged as normal.

00:35:46.000 And I've noticed again and again that what power does is it doesn't even concentrate on truth or righteousness, but normality, a kind of invisibility.

00:35:56.000 So, like it uh so that you don't register it, like you're coached to see your baby having a seizure as something that is not relevant, important or significant.

00:36:05.000 And that kind of denial of your instincts uh uh as a parent or as a person is kind of breathtaking.

00:36:11.000 Now no, I suppose even though we are definitely at some point going to circle back to those dreadful uh witches brew of ingredients, postules, fingernails, old clock parts, orphan tears.

00:36:21.000 None of that is in vaccine.

00:36:24.000 Because his name was mentioned and like Beetlejuice, if we say enough surely he will be summonsed, you talked about Robert Kennedy.

00:36:32.000 And in the book you describe how he came to even be connected to the subject of vaccines.

00:36:38.000 And my understanding of it is that he's a law an environmental lawyer concerned with mercury in waterways and in fish.

00:36:46.000 And some activist mums call upon him and badger him until he eventually agrees to participate in their anecdotal personal but somewhat underguarded by a study.

00:36:56.000 I don't know how that came about until he agrees to be a participant.

00:36:59.000 Now in the book you point out that this is hardly been a humdinger of a success for Robert Kennedy except, you know, plus time and a few pretty difficult to predict political events it has led to him being the secretary of the HHS.

00:37:12.000 But it did not look like he was back in a winning horse when he was talking about vaccines and vaccine injuries.

00:37:17.000 How significant is Robert Kennedy in this on this particular interface in this particular fight.

00:37:24.000 And what does his story and his evolution and association with these ideas tell us about the the stories more broadly and one of these days we'll get into vaccine ingredients.

00:37:34.000 Thank you I believe you there's a whole chapter in here called um I think it's called RFK is crazy and insane or something like that.

00:37:43.000 RFK and his crazy wacky ideas or something like that.

00:37:46.000 So he um he he he was as you said an environmental lawyer.

00:37:49.000 He was working on Mercury and fish.

00:37:51.000 He was working on getting Mercury out of waterways.

00:37:53.000 And every time he would give a speech there was a group of women who would show up and they would sort of corner him afterwards and say hey you know you're talking about uh Mercury in in these things what about Mercury and vaccines?

00:38:04.000 And he did not want to be involved in it.

00:38:07.000 He had no interest in it.

00:38:08.000 He didn't want to uh engage in the subject and and eventually they'd show up at another event and another event and he basically got to the place that he was avoiding uh these women who had these stories because he had a different uh a different mission.

00:38:20.000 And then one day he's at home in uh Hyannisport and a woman knocks on the door and she says I'm not leaving until you read this and she puts a stack of papers on his front porch and she sits in her car in front of the house and he thinks that she's really maybe not going to leave and he begins to read through the material.

00:38:36.000 And about halfway through the material he says oh I I have to get involved in this he sees that it it's a it's a real serious issue and uh uh you know uh undergirded not just by uh people's anecdotal experiences uh but by uh the science and so he he he gets involved and at that moment when he steps into he writes a book called uh Thimerosol, which is a mercury ingredient in vaccines.

00:39:03.000 Thymerasol let the science speak that was the title of his book.

00:39:06.000 Huh he does one interview about that book.

00:39:10.000 And from that moment on for the next eighteen years, even up to the present moment in large measure, he was never allowed on a network television show, including Fox.

00:39:19.000 He was never given another paid speech.

00:39:22.000 I mean he saw the world collapse on him, his his siblings uh turning against him, old friends who'd been uh you know friends for life because he was saying something insane, something mad.

00:39:33.000 How could it be?

00:39:34.000 Vaccines are are the most benign and lifesaving, you know, discovery of our time.

00:39:40.000 And how could it be that he had gone so crazy and was so so, you know, crazy to take on this to take on pharma, basically?

00:39:51.000 And he didn't know that was coming, but it certainly wasn't a good career move for him.

00:39:56.000 And it led to, you know, 18 years in the wilderness all the way up until when he ran for president.

00:40:02.000 And then a couple of times people had to put him on on uh regular television and one of them was so interesting I hope it's on YouTube.

00:40:10.000 It was an ABC interview in which they say we're about to interview Robert Kennedy but we must let you know in advance we had to edit this interview to remove misinformation and then they go through the interview and you see he th someone says well what science uh you know tells you that there could possibly be a connection and he says uh when I it's a total flash cut like you can't believe He doesn't answer the question.

00:40:34.000 And then the interview ends, and at the end they say, we want to remind you that much of what uh Mr. Kennedy just said is not true and it's been debunked and don't it was the most extraordinary interview you could imagine.

00:40:46.000 And then you know, slowly, uh because he's a presidential candidate and by law they couldn't deny him, he could get on, but not to discuss those topics, right?

00:40:53.000 It had to be other things.

00:40:54.000 And it was quite a uh a dark little episode of of seeing how they manipulated this stuff and how they were all so certain that uh they all were experts on uh you know, uh, became experts on vaccines, for example.

00:41:07.000 Now, speaking of expertise, you know, I'm not a doctor.

00:41:10.000 I uh I have to always remind people.

00:41:11.000 But it's interesting what my relationship to this subject is, because I'm a criminologist.

00:41:16.000 And I looked at this from the point of view of crime and and identifying criminal behavior in individuals, in institutions, criminal conspiracies.

00:41:26.000 And this word conspiracy uh is one that I want to talk about for a minute, because w is it a conspiracy?

00:41:33.000 Uh, for example, when pharma gets together with uh the head of the HHS who they're about to hire and put on their board, uh is that a conspiracy when they c you know conspire to get an approval, for example, or is it a conspiracy when a corporation and this goes to almost every product rollout in America, what I'm going to describe right now.

00:41:56.000 They sit in a room, they get together and they say, how can we undermine the uh the competitive product in ways that are wrongful?

00:42:04.000 Uh how can we oversell the quality of our product?

00:42:08.000 And I'm not just talking about pharma products, I'm talking about all kinds of products.

00:42:11.000 How can we uh oversell the value of it and and make claims that it's better than it actually is?

00:42:17.000 How can we um choose the right date and the right style of advertising to deceive the consumer?

00:42:24.000 That's the norm.

00:42:25.000 Yeah.

00:42:25.000 That's conspiracy.

00:42:27.000 Conspiracy just means one or more person getting together to do something uh wrongful that they wouldn't like the public to know about.

00:42:34.000 That's a conspiracy.

00:42:35.000 So when people say conspiracy theorists as if it's an insult, um I say uh you know, uh long-live conspiracy theorists and also uh you know, each bean on conspiracy theorists.

00:42:46.000 There's nothing there's nothing wrong with identifying that groups of people get together and do wrongful things.

00:42:52.000 That's uh that's part of human behavior.

00:42:54.000 But that word has been rebranded, conspiracy theory.

00:42:58.000 What it really means is that person's crazy, right?

00:43:00.000 Yeah.

00:43:01.000 You mentioned words, the word uh vaccine.

00:43:04.000 One hundred percent redefined.

00:43:06.000 It used to mean a product that makes you immune to an infection and prevents the disease.

00:43:12.000 The new current definition of vaccine, I'm not reading it, I'm just doing it from memory, is uh a product that uh that uh uh mounts an immune response in the body.

00:43:23.000 Doesn't mean it has to work.

00:43:24.000 Uh and then pandemic completely redefined.

00:43:27.000 It used to mean a disease or an infection that is spreads around the world and causes a lot of suffering and ill health and death.

00:43:35.000 Guess what's been removed from that?

00:43:38.000 Suffering and ill health and death and widespread.

00:43:40.000 Doesn't have to be widespread anymore.

00:43:42.000 It just has to be today a virus that is new.

00:43:47.000 That's all.

00:43:47.000 And so the World Health Organization, you know, pandemic, what did it mean to us 10 years ago?

00:43:52.000 Emergency. 0.99

00:43:53.000 Pandemic, holy shit. 0.99

00:43:54.000 People are gonna die, and it's gonna spread disease, and it's a big issue. 0.99

00:43:57.000 What did vaccine mean to us ten years ago?

00:43:59.000 Give it to me and I won't get the disease.

00:44:02.000 Yeah.

00:44:02.000 I won't get measles, right?

00:44:03.000 Well, you give me the COVID vaccine and I will get it.

00:44:06.000 And I'll get it three times, and I'll get it worse than an unvaccinated person. 1.00

00:44:09.000 That wasn't the definition.

00:44:11.000 So they just change the definition, right?

00:44:12.000 And you change when you change sometimes you don't have to change the law.

00:44:16.000 You can just change the definition.

00:44:18.000 You know, I I'm fond of reflecting on these three authors when trying to understand our time.

00:44:28.000 Of course, all well.

00:44:30.000 But that aspect of all well that you are evoking now, where it's vaccines always meant that.

00:44:37.000 Of course.

00:44:38.000 Pandemic always meant the idea of someone getting under the hood of language and altering what it meant is the most dreadful and terrifying gaslighting.

00:44:47.000 Of course, I always see as an accompaniment to all world's right-in and before moving on from that just to tag that the perhaps the most famous line from 84, if you want an image of the future of humanity invisible boots, stamping on a human face forever.

00:45:02.000 Since coming to Christ, I've seen that as doubly defamatory in and blasphemous indeed for whose image is it we bear.

00:45:10.000 Like all well sees it as a sort of a annihilation of the divine.

00:45:15.000 Tucker Carlson in a conversation once said that he reckoned that it was social democracies that Orwell was writing about rather than the kind of totalitarianism of Stalin, because at the point that Orwell was writing, we were well into a kind of a diagnostic around Soviet communism.

00:45:32.000 We both do the same thing.

00:45:35.000 Yeah.

00:45:36.000 And uh uh also Huxley's writing again when talking about the kind of uh Apple iPod logos ease, the kind of sanitary ease, the kind of comfortable, convenient ease of these new forms of tyranny that don't even have the priapic marches or the elegant moustaches of good old 20th century fascism and totalitarianism.

00:46:00.000 But I am always uh inclined to include Kafka too because of that bizarre and absurdist component so easily found when tackling these giant institutions, whether it's YouTube or Facebook or the institution of medicine, these new constructed enter in entities that behind their insignia clearly operate in this peculiar way of you're not even able to know what you've done wrong.

00:46:29.000 It's not clear to you who you're talking to.

00:46:32.000 It's not clear where the power is located.

00:46:35.000 That bureaucracies, these kind of anodyne institutions wield this dark power, and it's no longer presented to you in vivid and villainous terms, but i i innocuous, insidious, tepid, calm,

00:46:51.000 just gently ushering you into the room to be inoculated, just gently calming you down, a kind of soothing nurse ratchet style, benign thin smile that leads you into the kind of Canadian the Canadian made program, you know, their program for uh for uh euphanasia.

00:47:10.000 And it's very gentle and it's very it it makes good sense and uh and it and that's right.

00:47:15.000 You'd be happier dead.

00:47:17.000 You could relax at last. 0.94

00:47:19.000 Exactly.

00:47:20.000 Uh not have all those problems of of uh poverty and homelessness, etc.

00:47:24.000 Yeah, it's a uh you know speaking of Orwell, because so much of this book is about words and as books ought to be, uh but but it uh you know in the beginning of COVID in 2020, um 1984 became the seventeenth highest spelling uh selling book in the English language.

00:47:45.000 After seventy-five years, it became a bestseller again.

00:47:48.000 And that actually gave me a lot of uh of encouragement and confidence because it people were seeing, wait a minute, somehow they were seeing I want to read 1984 right now.

00:48:00.000 They were seeing something earlier than I would have expected that was um uh you know this kind of uh uh of uh gaslighting that you're describing.

00:48:09.000 A good example of it is that the COVID vaccine, if you remember the mRNA vaccine, you would need one, uh and you would need uh and then you would not get sick, and as Biden said, you will not get sick and you will not die.

00:48:23.000 And everybody made clear that this vaccine would be a one-time vaccine that would would save the planet.

00:48:29.000 Well, then soon enough it turned out to be you'll need two, uh pardon me, let me adjust that to maybe three.

00:48:34.000 By the way, the total number is nine as of right now, including one every year for a child's life, right?

00:48:41.000 Starts at six months old, three injections at six months old.

00:48:43.000 Luckily, because of the new uh more uh sane HHS, that's not going to happen quite that way.

00:48:50.000 But my point is that they it went from that to what are you talking about?

00:48:54.000 We never said the vaccine would stop you from getting an infection.

00:48:57.000 We never said the vaccine uh would would give you uh you know immunity against the infection.

00:49:02.000 And then we're all sort of but I really thought you did.

00:49:05.000 I thought that's what vaccine meant.

00:49:07.000 I thought that no, no, no, no, no.

00:49:08.000 All it was gonna do was keep you out of the hospital.

00:49:11.000 And then when people were hospitalized nonetheless, all it was going to do was keep you from dying.

00:49:16.000 And then of course, people uh were dying, and all it was going to do was reduce your chances.

00:49:20.000 It's a little bit like the flu vaccine.

00:49:21.000 Flu vaccine doesn't mean you don't get the flu.

00:49:24.000 It means oh, you might still get the flu, that can happen.

00:49:26.000 That's called a breakthrough infection, it can happen.

00:49:29.000 But uh it'll be better than it would have been.

00:49:33.000 As if you could possibly have some scientific study that said, Well, I still got the thing, but imagine I and I swear this is true, by the way.

00:49:41.000 When Fauci got COVID for the second time after having all the vaccines and all the boosters, etc., assuming that he did, he said, Man, I was really sick because he took Paxlovid and Paxlovid was a pharma product made by uh Pfizer that uh had a rebound effect, meaning it's a small problem with it is you'll get COVID again when you take Paxlovid.

00:50:04.000 And so they called it a rebound effect.

00:50:06.000 And he said, and and and he said I was really, really sick.

00:50:09.000 And his way of interpreting that, Fauci, was imagine how it would have been if I hadn't had that vaccine.

00:50:16.000 Yeah, and that's not a scientific perspective to sort of imagine how bad it would be without it, because it's of course uh an impossible proposition to ever a study.

00:50:27.000 Again, like when Albert Baller, their CEO of Pfizer used to turn up on TV shows, in r uh this even with the uh r near immediate retrospective, just a few years later, to see the fawning anchors uh on daytime TV, talking to Albert Baller, not asking him any difficult questions, not following up on anything when he says, you know, it's ninety-eight percent effective, it's a moonshot, a kind of sort of celebrate retirement.

00:50:52.000 Like they're fawning over him as if he had a kind of David Bowie like charisma sat there oozing in that chair.

00:50:58.000 W uh i and it's pretty clear that the financial relationships, the investments in people that were see, you know, the f the fact that people in the was it the CDC or NIH where they receive royalties, the NIH is there.

00:51:10.000 And and then the fact that the T V companies, even if you stay well within what can be tracked and observed and corroborated, which you do very well in this book, obviously, it becomes clear that what's happening is a warping of reality.

00:51:24.000 And it was called Operation Warp Speed, wasn't it?

00:51:26.000 Like the reality itself is being changed.

00:51:28.000 Almost every that perception, communication, relationships, priorities, the the meaning of words, all of these things are being shifted.

00:51:37.000 And it's difficult uh as your great comedian George Carlin said that no conspiracy is required when interests converge, and you've offered additionally that conspiracy just means communication.

00:51:47.000 That if there was that level of um when the the ordinary launch of a new product requires, as you described, how do we highlight the uh benefits of this product and denigrate and e even up uh ignore, eliminate the problems with this product.

00:52:02.000 If something that that thorough takes place with ordinary products like I don't know, some night new type of cheese or soda, then do you imagine or project or consider that the prior to these events there were conversations.

00:52:19.000 Do you think this took place in real time?

00:52:22.000 Do you think that there was an understanding of the impact?

00:52:26.000 Do you think this is just about profit and the movement of resources?

00:52:31.000 Well, I hate the question.

00:52:33.000 Yeah.

00:52:34.000 Uh because the uh unfortunately I've had to come to the conclusion that uh the that most large events of which COVID is COVID and the and the lockdowns is probably the biggest event, much bigger than a world war.

00:52:47.000 Probably the biggest event in our lifetimes in terms of its impact on people.

00:52:51.000 Starvation, uh interference with uh uh with industry, uh you know, hundreds of thousands of businesses, pri small businesses closed in America forever, and uh uh a deep wound on a whole generation of people who's didn't get their prom and didn't get to go to Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner and funerals and christenings.

00:53:12.000 Of course, and and young people in church itself, and young people uh deeply need a social relationship outside of the household and they were imprisoned in the household.

00:53:21.000 And uh all of this uh extraordinary overreach in in Western societies, it's a normal overreach in a in a monarchy or in uh you know, in in Stalin's Russia or something like that.

00:53:33.000 That's just the way life is.

00:53:34.000 But for us it was quite a quite a culture shock.

00:53:37.000 And so w when you look at this that I call the the largest event in world history, the largest mass control of human beings.

00:53:45.000 Um and also, by the way, the largest uh, you know, injection of a consumer product, far, far bigger than Coca-Cola in terms of its profit, uh, far, far more people given the product and against their will in many cases, and and without even being Able to understand what they were participating in.

00:54:02.000 This mass vaccination of billions of people.

00:54:06.000 Um if it's a bad product, let's imagine for a moment that the COVID vaccine, MRNA is not good for you.

00:54:12.000 We don't really have to imagine that.

00:54:14.000 I can talk about it in a moment.

00:54:15.000 But just imagine that that uh somebody knew that this crosses the blood brain barrier, that this does not stay in your arm, which was their assertion, that this goes into the ovaries, that this goes into the testes, that this goes into the liver, uh it it doesn't go there, you know, for a uh a birthday party, it goes there and it does harm.

00:54:32.000 And so this was known.

00:54:34.000 This was known.

00:54:36.000 So what you are left with are are all the dark possibilities.

00:54:40.000 And and I want to go to what you said about reality for a moment.

00:54:43.000 When we are uh gaslit, when we are told, no, no, no, that's not what that word means.

00:54:49.000 It always meant such and such.

00:54:50.000 When we're told, well, what are you talking about?

00:54:52.000 Well, surely such and such, and when all of that deceit and and distortion of reality occurs, I actually see one good aspect of the distortion of reality, and that is that in a sense, much of our human re experience materialistically is an illusion.

00:55:11.000 And so, in a way, all the AI that uh and the deep fakes and the we already can't tell, is that really Trump saying that, or is it something that somebody made up and i i is it really uh such and such, or is it something that AI is just telling us, etc.?

00:55:26.000 That is happening now, meaning people are questioning their reality.

00:55:30.000 Yeah.

00:55:31.000 That's not entirely bad for the reason I mentioned, because if you can sort of move and say, well, I'm not gonna trust that reality, you know, that this one here is is wood or plastic or whatever it is, if I'm not gonna trust that one, there's something higher to be had there, which is that this you know that the things we think are important are illusions.

00:55:51.000 That's the positive side.

00:55:53.000 The not positive side is that most people are living in the material world and are having to navigate and find their way, and when you can't trust government and you can't trust uh Fauci, let's say, and you can't trust industry and you can't, uh, and you can't uh you know trust uh your own senses in some cases, uh, then what are you left with?

00:56:14.000 And here uh you come to the spiritual.

00:56:17.000 Because what the spiritual does and even the religious does is give you answers that it you are not told you need to understand everything.

00:56:27.000 Right?

00:56:28.000 You are told specifically you are asked to have faith.

00:56:31.000 And if you are going to have faith, which 12-step programs ask you to do, which religions ask you to do, is faith inherently bad?

00:56:39.000 Does that mean you're giving up your ability to uh to uh assess things with your intellect?

00:56:44.000 Uh it says it's it's it's higher.

00:56:47.000 In other words, to have faith in something.

00:56:48.000 For example, uh me personally, um I when when people said, for example, in a 12-step program, well, you need to have faith in this program, for example.

00:56:58.000 Um I thought, well, I I don't know how to have faith in something.

00:57:01.000 But then I realized, wait a minute, I had always had faith in certain ideas, like in my from my childhood, I had the faith that things will go badly.

00:57:10.000 That's a faith as well.

00:57:11.000 That's another form of faith, right?

00:57:13.000 The the belief that things will go badly.

00:57:15.000 Things won't go well for you, for example.

00:57:17.000 Um so it's just a little turn to s take that ability to have faith and say, I will have faith that there is something higher than me in this universe, and there is something higher than intellectual belief and proof, as we're given by science, that there's something higher than all that and bigger than all that.

00:57:36.000 Now, that is a very big step to take that doesn't let me forgive that there are people sitting in rooms and making decisions that they know are bad for others, that they know are good for them, and that they know they can't be sued for in the case of one product in America, just one.

00:57:56.000 You can sue a gun manufacturer for God's sake.

00:57:58.000 You can sue a maker of a of a drill has to have a safety trigger on it, but you cannot sue somebody who makes a product to inject into your infant on the first day of life, which is the the uh hepatitis B vaccine that was until uh until Bobby Kennedy's HHS uh mandated to be given on the first day of life.

00:58:17.000 We can't bring you any more of this conversation on YouTube.

00:58:20.000 Click the link in the description and join us over on Rumble.

00:58:23.000 There were numerous examples throughout the pandemic of the evocation of faith.

00:58:28.000 Indeed, there was a peculiar and almost instantaneous priesthood that emerged.

00:58:32.000 For me, there were a collapsing of idols during that time, and lurid examples of New Babylon, when watching people on late-night talk shows dress up as vaccines...

00:58:45.000 And indeed, well, we've touched on him already, not literally, but figuratively.

00:58:51.000 Robert Kennedy, who I've seen derided and attacked and ridiculed by Stephen Colbert, who until like five, six years ago, I would have seen as a kind of a comedian of integrity and imp is a significant satirist.

00:59:04.000 And a Catholic like Bobby Kennedy, by the way.

00:59:06.000 A Christian, all of that like it uh there's a something um visceral I feel when I see him talk like, you know, oh, the shooting of bear, a thing on the head, the wor earworm or whatever. 0.99

00:59:18.000 The kind of delight, uh the brainworm rather, the the delight taken in that condemnation and contempt, in fact, um showed me that it showed me something.

00:59:33.000 He's a unique figure, I suppose, Secretary Kennedy, in so much as a media with any integrity at all would have had to have said, This is really weird that Donald Trump is invited this guy to be in his government because it doesn't make sense based on what we've previously reported to you.

00:59:52.000 It would make much more sense if he was still in the Democrat Party or if he was the leader of the Democrat Party, and that the fact that it couldn't even acknowledge that is in a way this way one oh yes, this is how they infer the existence of dark energy and dark matter not from being able to detect its presence, of course, because it's undetectable by its nature, but by the movements of the phenomena around it, they posit its existence.

01:00:18.000 And the COVID period allowed, I think, the collective to see the silhouette of evil in the peripheral movements in a variety of institutions, and indeed by their fruit shall we know them.

01:00:32.000 The numerous calculable injustices, whether it's the wealth transfer or the suicides or the cancers or the heart disease, or the many things that you cover in this book.

01:00:41.000 The only thing is really that how how could we s be surprised after the opioid crisis after the Johnson and Johnson after the 40 ignitions at General Motors?

01:00:48.000 After the baby food, baby formula.

01:00:50.000 Right.

01:00:51.000 And like in a way, it's almost sort of almost beyond contemplation.

01:00:55.000 Why would you put something in baby powder that poisons babies? 1.00

01:00:59.000 Why would you put something in vaccines?

01:01:01.000 And so now the fact that you're approaching this as a criminal criminologist, it becomes uh less jarring.

01:01:08.000 Um because I can see you're looking for uh further data bar.

01:01:12.000 I was actually just uh doing some YouTube uh uh you'd gone on for so long, I was checking my emails.

01:01:16.000 I hope it was me that it wasn't even one of my videos that you were checking.

01:01:20.000 Well, I wonder um I wanted to ask you, Gavin, the like when we look even at your C V or someone that's been consulted by governments, or someone that's worked for like the CIA, you've worked for a bunch of presidents.

01:01:34.000 How is it that you have such a um anti-establishment stance as to be approaching the pandemic and vaccines from your position as a criminologist?

01:01:46.000 What I mean, I'm assuming that criminology means a particular expertise in the motivations of a criminal and the behavior of a criminal it does, and uh and in human behavior in general, because I'm a behavioral scientist as well, and looking at uh uh predicting human behavior, that's been my my life's work, uh assessing people who threaten or would harm public figures, for example, has been a big piece of my my work.

01:02:10.000 But I want to answer the question of how it how I come to it.

01:02:13.000 Um I have always believed, and in my first book, which is now twenty-five years ago, uh Gift of Fear, um I have always believed that reality is the highest ground you can get to.

01:02:25.000 And from there you can see what's coming, and uh and that's important, and I don't mean that you can always see what's coming or always predict everything.

01:02:32.000 Uh and I don't even always want to predict everything.

01:02:34.000 This movie we're watching would is more interesting when we don't know what's coming.

01:02:38.000 But in some cases, when it comes to personal safety or it comes to cautions that I'm uh you know, inspiring people in some cases to take.

01:02:46.000 Uh the you know, should you be concerned about this workplace violence guy who makes threats in the workplace, that's been a big piece of my work.

01:02:53.000 This person who threatens assassination, that's been a big piece of my work.

01:02:56.000 So there's a an element of prediction of predicting human behavior.

01:03:00.000 And where it crossed over here, and l I'll tell you literally where it crossed over, is I was asked by clients to do a report on COVID at the very beginning of COVID.

01:03:09.000 And so all we knew at the very beginning of COVID was um over we just had two metrics we were given by the government.

01:03:15.000 Over 60 die.

01:03:17.000 That was it.

01:03:18.000 Right?

01:03:19.000 And so I was like anybody else.

01:03:20.000 Should we wash the outside of the pizza box but still eat the pizza?

01:03:23.000 Because that was okay.

01:03:24.000 Should we, you know, clean the bananas before we peel them?

01:03:27.000 Should we check things before they come from because we were told that contact transmission was possible.

01:03:32.000 They didn't bother to tell us it wasn't when they realized it wasn't, but nonetheless, they left us with the contact transmission, and Fauci had a revolting phrase.

01:03:40.000 He said, I wouldn't be swapping air with anybody, swapping air.

01:03:45.000 You mean breathing uh God's oxygen here that's uh helped by these plants and what have you.

01:03:51.000 And so I was seeing all of this happen, and I had to do this report.

01:03:54.000 So I did the report on the only information we had at that time, which was the first stats to come out of Northern Italy, and that was in about uh March of 2020.

01:04:04.000 And I looked at those stats and said look at this.

01:04:08.000 90% of the people who died were over 80 years old.

01:04:13.000 W i which means they had already outlived the life expectancy in Italy.

01:04:17.000 They had already won the jackpot.

01:04:19.000 And so the and then I looked at them, and at that time it was 3.5% of them already had a fatal comorbidity, meaning they were already very sick.

01:04:29.000 And uh in America, that later moved to 4.7% of people who died of COVID already had.

01:04:34.000 I'll give you the most amazing stat at all, of all of them.

01:04:37.000 I didn't know it at the time.

01:04:38.000 70% of the people whose deaths were attributed to COVID in Canada, 70%, lived in nursing homes.

01:04:47.000 In other words, you could say, I don't live in a nursing home, so I'm already in the minority of people who could be harmed by this by this virus, right?

01:04:55.000 This virus, everybody in this building had it.

01:04:58.000 Most people had it more than once, and guess what we all did to surprise the government?

01:05:02.000 We all survived.

01:05:04.000 Um what do you do, by the way, in a nursing home?

01:05:06.000 Why are you in a nursing home?

01:05:08.000 In Los Angeles, in a Medicare nursing home, the average stay in a Medicare nursing home in Los Angeles is four and a half months.

01:05:16.000 And that's not because you check out to go dancing uh or go to a Vegas vacation.

01:05:21.000 That's because you die.

01:05:22.000 That's what you do in the nursing home. 1.00

01:05:24.000 So if you have a disease that you're focusing on the nursing homes in order to get your stats from, uh, you're gonna do very, very well because guess what they're gonna keep on doing and they'll never stop.

01:05:34.000 3.4 million of them a year will die.

01:05:37.000 You can be sure of it.

01:05:39.000 And so that I I could see that in the Italian statistics.

01:05:43.000 So I wrote a report to a client of mine who was 56 years old, and I said the following nine things you would have to do to die from COVID.

01:05:51.000 Number one, you'd have to catch COVID.

01:05:54.000 Number two, you'd have to not do anything about it.

01:05:56.000 Not tell your doctor and not go to the doctor.

01:05:58.000 Number three, you'd have to get sick from it, because many people, of course, as with all viruses, are asymptomatic.

01:06:04.000 Uh, number four, you'd have to uh get sick enough to go to the hospital.

01:06:08.000 Number five, you'd have to get accepted into the hospital, which was only about 10% of people who came to the hospital would even be admitted.

01:06:15.000 And ultimately you'd get to number eight, which is you'd have to end up in the intensive care unit.

01:06:19.000 And even then, even then, if you were 90 years old, you'd be 90% likely to go home.

01:06:28.000 Wow.

01:06:28.000 Even then.

01:06:29.000 In other words, dear clients, don't worry about this.

01:06:32.000 Yeah.

01:06:33.000 Right?

01:06:33.000 And then came once you're giving a vaccine.

01:06:36.000 I tell you a really interesting thing about the vaccine um trials for co uh for uh Pfizer's product.

01:06:43.000 Uh so they did as many people said, oh, they tested on 40,000 people.

01:06:46.000 There were 40,000 people in the trials.

01:06:49.000 That's not true.

01:06:50.000 What there were is 22,000 people who got the vaccine and 22,000 people who did not get the vaccine.

01:06:56.000 So you can't consider them being tested for getting the vaccine.

01:06:59.000 And then they send them out into the population, right? 0.73

01:07:02.000 And they see how many come back with COVID.

01:07:05.000 Will it be more among those who were vaccinated, or will it be more among those who are not vaccinated?

01:07:11.000 And it turned out it was slightly more among the people who were not vaccinated.

01:07:15.000 But you know what the number was?

01:07:16.000 186 people.

01:07:18.000 In other words, what you really learned from the Pfizer COVID trials was you don't need a vaccine.

01:07:25.000 Yeah.

01:07:26.000 Something is 186 out of 40,000 people, 40,000, 10% would be 4,000.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - September 30, 2025

Gavin de Becker | Fear, Freedom & Resisting Control - SF642

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