Russell Brand is joined by Graham Hancock to discuss the origins of the modern world order, and why we should all be looking for a new kind of spirituality and a new priapic awakening. [Outro music by You Awakening Wonders] Stay Free With Russell Brand is a podcast hosted by comedian and writer Russell Brand. It's the season finale of Stay Free with Russell Brand, and it's a must-listen if you haven't already listened to it live on Thanksgiving Day, November 22nd, 2019. Stay Free! To find a list of our sponsors and show-related promo codes, go to gimlet.fm/sponsorships/StayFreeWithRussellBrand and use the promo code: "UPLEVEL" at checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase when you enter the code: STAYFREE at checkout. This offer expires on December 13th, 2019, so make sure to check it out before then! Thank you so you don't miss out-of-nowhere goodness! This episode was produced by Gimlet Media and edited by Annie-Rose Strand, and produced by Rachel Ward. It was edited by Haley Shaw. We are a proud affiliate of NPR. Our theme song was written and performed by Ian Dorsch and our ad music is by Mark Phillips. Music by Jeff Kaale. Artwork by Ian McKirdy. Please rate, review, and review this episode on SoundCloud. The opinions stated in this episode are our own, and we'd love to hear your thoughts on it in the comments section, if you have a review of it. If you liked it, please leave us a review and/or a review or a review, we'd like to see it on Apple Podcasts, we'll be hearing it on the next episode of the podcast, we're listening to you in the next week, too! We'll be listening to it on Soundcloud or wherever you re listening to this episode, too? Thanks again, please be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Music or wherever else you get your own copy of this podcast is available. Thank you! Thanks for listening to the podcast - good vibes! - your feedback is appreciated. - thank you, you're lovely, good night, good morning, good day, and good night all of your day! - Blessings, your support is appreciated! - Eternally grateful!
00:00:57.000We're going to be talking about the emergent global world order, which I know that you guys are pretty keen to avoid, ain't you?
00:01:04.000Particularly now the categories of left and right are melting away and there's a need for a new vitality and a new spirituality and a new priapic awakening.
00:01:11.000Look up the word priapic if you don't know what it means.
00:01:13.000And we are going to provide you with Literally all of that in the next few seconds.
00:01:19.000Is this the equivalent of like a radio DJ just going like that?
00:01:26.000And even more exciting than anything I've just said now, even though I've took you to the precipice of the borders of your reality, i.e.
00:01:33.000are you an individual, are you an object or are you an event taking place in an apparently real spatial and temporal zone that could evaporate at any moment with your personal transcendence?
00:02:27.000I was in Uttar, and there was Graham Hancock there as well.
00:02:30.000And I don't know, and I don't want to make any cast aspersions, but it feels like people were doing psychedelics.
00:02:34.000I wasn't, because as you know, I'm drug and alcohol free for nearly two decades now, if I get to December the 13th.
00:02:40.000Anyway, we're going to talk to Graham Hancock.
00:02:41.000I'm in particular, this is what I want to know about Graham Hancock.
00:02:45.000What is it in particular that we have to address if we were to discover that our received understanding of human history were erroneous?
00:02:52.000If we have to accept that perhaps there were an Atlantis, perhaps Plato was correct when he speculated about some hidden city underneath, I mean, this is a weird coincidence, the Atlantic.
00:03:03.000So it's good they called it Atlantis, I think.
00:03:05.000And also, because I was thinking about Plato the other day, I'm always thinking about him.
00:03:08.000His cave analogy, that we're looking at shadows on a wall.
00:03:11.000And some people dismiss platonic philosophy as like, you know, classical philosophy in general is a bit sort of, I don't know, old hat, old crap.
00:03:17.000But I feel like, actually, as we learn more about the limitations of the century world, that we are living in a holographic reality.
00:03:23.000And I know that Graham Hancock will be keen.
00:03:25.000I'm glad you've made your main point today.
00:03:59.000Plato goes, look, what it's like is, imagine the reality if there were some people chained to a wall, down a cave, looking at shadows on a wall.
00:04:07.000They would think that that was all reality.
00:04:08.000But in effect, there are people that can see the flames.
00:04:10.000And even beyond that, there are people transcendent.
00:04:13.000Receiving an entirely different reality.
00:04:14.000Now, any allegory is obviously limited by the image system within which it operates.
00:04:19.000But as we learned yesterday, if you joined us in that green needle experiment, reality takes place in a kind of symbiosis between the apparently external sensory realm and the internal realm of the recipient.
00:05:39.000Let us know in the chat if we're right.
00:05:40.000Let us know in the comments in the chat.
00:05:41.000And if you're a member of the Stay Free AF community, get onto that little chat board.
00:05:45.000Tell us, how did this tradition begin?
00:05:46.000I reckon it began with Kennedy, but Reagan was the first person to talk about pardoning a bird, and it was something to do with the Iran contra stuff.
00:05:57.000People see me, they see the haircut, they see the charisma, they see the rather fancy jacket and they think this guy's not an investigative journalist such as we've previously understood him, but they've done me wrong, baby.
00:06:15.000It runs in the family because I believe the lad hunter is up for using the old nose.
00:06:21.000Anyway, if he gets a chance, God bless him.
00:06:23.000We've got a compilation of Biden sniffs if you'd like to see them.
00:06:26.000This bird is just the latest in a long line of creatures that have provided molecules for the Biden snout hole.
00:06:33.000Let's have a look at some other things Biden has sniffed and see what he's getting at and then I'll talk to you about sniffing in general and what does it mean.
00:07:36.000And what I certainly don't do is lean in and sniff the nape of its neck as if looking for some beautiful musk.
00:07:41.000Now, apparently, humans can make use of body odour subconsciously to identify whether a potential mate will pass on favourable traits to their offspring.
00:08:04.000For decades, scientists believed that humans were not very good at detecting and identifying odours, but a 2014 study shows that humans can distinguish at least a trillion odours, and in some cases, have more sensitive smells than animals.
00:08:57.000bird, you get out of here! I think what you're talking about there is your own smells. Is
00:09:03.000it Gareth? I know that for a fact. Is it so simple as that Gareth? I've seen you post
00:09:08.000Trumpton shall we say. Well listen I believe I'm a complex man.
00:09:13.000Anyway, you could, if you like, make the mistake of thinking we're being frivolous about sniffy old Joe, but the points that we want to make are quite important ones.
00:09:21.000During the time of this man's cognitive decline and evident deterioration, sniffing his way through reality, he's recently signed a 40 billion aid package for Ukraine, including 20 billion in military assistance.
00:09:31.000That's just one of the things, my research.
00:09:34.000That's just one of the things my research threw up.
00:09:36.000Also, recently, in spite of saying during the campaign that they were going to limit the amount of arms deals made with regimes abroad, particularly regimes regarded as dodgy, that's the official term they use, under Biden's administration, generally speaking, these deals have increased.
00:09:54.000Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon and General Dynamics have been involved in 58% of all the major offers made since the administration took office.
00:10:02.000So on one hand, He's lovely old Joe, pardoning a turkey, sniffing it on the way out the door.
00:10:08.000But on the other hand, is Biden the arms dealer?
00:10:11.000We're going to get further into that story.
00:10:12.000If you're with us on YouTube right now, join us over on Rumble.
00:10:15.000We've got Graham Hancock coming any minute now.
00:10:32.000And by the way, Hunter Biden, fellow addict, you're my brother in recovery, I pray for you and I want Hunter Biden clean and happy.
00:10:40.000We're only making jokes because they are in positions of enormous power and potentially doing some deals that seem dubious, although the mainstream media are now reporting on those deals.
00:10:47.000They certainly are, two years later, and the laptop store is a go now.
00:10:54.000If you like to follow the science, you can say the distance and difference between a conspiracy theory and a mainstream media news story is two years.
00:11:01.000Two years it went from you can't mention that on Twitter to we can mention it on CNN.
00:11:06.000But let's have a look at a bit more of Sniffy Old Joe.
00:11:11.000I think the combination of shoulder touch and sniff.
00:11:53.000From is the idea that any of the figures that occupy this system are going to provide meaningful solutions for you in your life.
00:11:59.000That's one of the things we're going to be talking to Graham Hancock about a little later, and the significance of alternative and potentially suppressed human narratives.
00:12:06.000But for now, let's look at a ghostly pal girl getting sniffed at by president
00:12:09.000Right, is it like look you guys made this compilation I'm not involved in the edits.
00:14:43.000They've got a grapes badge on them down there.
00:14:46.000If you go to a nice restaurant, I don't know if you have the privilege of going to a nice restaurant, perhaps the cost of living crisis has annihilated you into a state of penury and that was part of the plan.
00:14:54.000You will own nothing and you will be happy.
00:14:55.000You remember when Klaus Schwab told you that?
00:14:57.000Well, if you own nothing and you're not happy, good news is you're halfway there.
00:15:00.000Now, at Sommelier, if someone works down the old restaurant, they wear a grapes badge and they do sniffing.
00:15:06.000The mistake Biden's making there, and I can tell you, on day one of Sommelier school, they're going to say, when you're sniffing at the old grape, don't crush your nose into the baby's... I mean, they won't be dealing with a baby.
00:15:16.000Obviously, it's a glass of wine in that instance.
00:15:25.000Biden, if you're going to sniff, sniff proper.
00:15:31.000There you go, so we've learned something there.
00:15:32.000Trying to make it clear those weren't Biden's actual sniff sounds.
00:15:34.000No, we added that for humorous effect.
00:15:36.000We are ultimately a comedy show revealing that beneath apparent reality there is a mischievous force beckoning you forward into new realms.
00:15:44.000You might experience it if you've taken DMT.
00:15:46.000That's another question I'm going to be asking Graham Hancock about.
00:15:50.000Lots of questions for Graham in the chat.
00:15:52.000People saying that he's awesome, that they love him and all that kind of stuff.
00:16:19.000Because, yeah, when he's pardoning the turkey... Now, the pardoning of the turkey amounts to a secular ritual.
00:16:24.000The sacrifice of the bird, of course, is supposed to mean a kind of coming together of the pilgrims, isn't it, and the Native American folk that was there before the colonising forces arrived.
00:16:35.000But now, this secularised version of the ritual is supposed to mean what?
00:16:39.000Compassion, awareness, I suppose as well it demonstrates the presidential power and authority, something that would definitely be dying otherwise is going to be given a chance at survival.
00:16:48.000But because we've lost religious traditions and because we've lost all ideals except for our radical fundamentalist consumerism and commodification of all things, it's not that there is no belief, it's that there is one concealed belief, these rituals always seem a bit odd.
00:17:03.000But let's see how Joe Biden, a man who's always good off the cuff, certainly if he's wiping spilled soup off his chin, Let's see how he copes with this little situation.
00:17:39.000This is a moment where you turn to your leader to hopefully kind of lead you well through these crises, through these wars, and it does seem a little odd that the time where he's We're going to spend in front of people and on camera he's talking about chocolate chip turkeys.
00:17:54.000I'm trying to think of the people we would need to save us right now.
00:18:21.000Everything is being turned into a kind of meaningless morass, so that the one imperative to commodify and consume can be relentlessly pursued.
00:18:29.000Remember when we were obsessed with Islamism and Islamic terrorism?
00:18:33.000We talked about fundamentalism, but their fundamentalism is no different from the fundamentalism under which you already live.
00:18:41.000If it can't be measured, if it can't be bought and sold, it doesn't have any meaning.
00:18:45.000Let me know in the chat and let me know in the comments if you think I'm spot-on and wearing a sexy jacket or if you think I'm way off track and a crackpot.
00:18:52.000Let's see what old Uncle Joe has to say about this turkey and I think he gets into some weird semi-genocidal borderline racist discourse here.
00:19:24.000I mean, does he mean Turkey as in... The country of Turkey?
00:19:28.000I think what he was trying to say is like look wouldn't you be able to if it was 50 years ago say like oh nine and a half million then you'd think of a country or a state that had a population of about that size and then you'd make a sort of a light playful joke about that.
00:19:42.000So it's a pejorative It's a pejorative condemnatory.
00:19:45.000Now, remember when Trump said, shit, old countries.
00:20:09.000As a vegan, the thing I dislike most about turkeys is the sort of snout sack.
00:20:15.000What's a shame is that Joe Biden and the turkey don't get involved in a sort of a mutual sniff-off where they could sniff each other at the beak area and then I'd like to see that little flailing skinlet go up his bugle.
00:21:44.000But when ceremony and ritual are becoming themselves meaningless, then everything is what is called phatic, performative, empty, hollow, a satz.
00:21:53.000We live in a, we're discussing, is it a nihilistic space or is there a deep concealed ideology, a deep concealed telos that is being pursued and my concern is that maybe there is a concealed telos.
00:22:36.000Because the point we'll make is that as energy costs have soared energy companies have made record profits and now we have just explained via the conduit of Gareth Roy just there that similarly the cost of living crisis has afforded people in institutions in positions of power to garner new profits and also mask that profiteering with a convenient narrative.
00:22:59.000Yeah and rather than sit there and or stand there and make a Or even perch!
00:23:04.000A bad joke about chocolate and chip and however many million turkeys.
00:23:09.000You don't like the joke about chocolate and chip?
00:23:11.000The Democrats could be actually, you know... Doing something about it?
00:23:15.000They're not going to do anything about it, but do you think the Republicans would be any better?
00:23:17.000Let us know in a snap poll, for God's sake!
00:23:20.000Also, right, before we get Graham Hancock, I just want to have a look at this.
00:23:23.000Now, yesterday we showed you a little bit of Macron, Emmanuel Macron, President of France, at the APEC Summit, talking about a unipolar world.
00:23:34.000Explicitly announcing that they want just one global power, not a bipolar world.
00:23:39.000Let's have a look at him saying that again, and watch out because we're going to reveal something to you that's going to make your bones bend and your blood boil.
00:24:12.000Just because people are explicitly saying it and talking about digital ID and digital passports and One World Orders and global resets, you're a nutcase for believing in it.
00:24:21.000Anyway, the Apex Summit, you probably don't even know what that is, and I'm sure it's nothing nefarious.
00:24:25.000And if it were, you'd probably be able to tell from their logo.
00:24:27.000But actually, their logo, when you have a look at it, is pretty cuddly, nice, straightforward.
00:24:38.000I feel like I saw you, this little guy, rearing his head in the 1930s.
00:24:43.000Many of you right now in the chat will be telling us, of course, that it's a Hindu sign in its origin, but it also, as well as all of us appreciating there's a Hindu sign there, a Vedic symbol of good luck and good fortune, I feel like a plucky little fella named Adolf Hitler.
00:24:58.000He made use of that symbol a little while back in his own attempt to create a unipolar world.
00:25:03.000If that's just a mistake, it's a really bad one.
00:25:06.000Who in graphic design didn't... I get angry sometimes about the errors we make over here at Stay Free Media.
00:25:12.000But if you were saying, here's the new logo Russ, I think you're gonna like it.
00:25:16.000It's just sort of, you know, I wanted to get... It's retro!
00:25:21.000Yeah, I don't know if I like that because I think it might be offensive to millions and millions of people who mercilessly and needlessly lost their lives for various power trips and because of a genocide.
00:25:33.000Okay, listen, let me know what you think about that, Swastika, and whether or not I sometimes think that the unconscious is grassing them up.
00:25:41.000That stuff that they're unable to articulate because of their own sort of submerged agenda finds its way filtering through, percolating truth from the deep unconscious ulterior realm that we all have access to.
00:25:53.000And one man who's got more access to it than most is Graham Hancock.
00:25:57.000Hero, Egyptologist, man who set his camera at an interesting angle.
00:26:22.000I've not seen it yet because the crown's on and I had to get through the crown, had to get through the heritage porn.
00:26:27.000But the next thing is Ancient Apocalypse, because I've been a fan of yours since I was 16 years old.
00:26:32.000Are you happy with how the show is being received?
00:26:34.000And does this, to you, Is this a kind of a watershed where you're entering into the mainstream and does it seem a triumph after years of being denounced, decried and slandered?
00:26:45.000I don't think I'm entering into the mainstream.
00:27:25.000I enjoy the way that you invite imagination into the room, the way that you use your spirituality, the way that you don't codify archaeology to the point where it only becomes accessible to elites.
00:27:38.000I think you do such fantastic work, but it sounds to me that you seem a little disheartened.
00:27:43.000Is it simply that you need a cuddle, or is there something more nefarious at play?
00:27:53.000I suppose the disheartening thing is the reaction of archaeologists to this whole story.
00:28:03.000See, from my point of view, Let's call it mainstream archaeology like mainstream media.
00:28:10.000Mainstream archaeology is the story that it tells us, the narrative that it presents about the human past, is the dominant narrative in our society today.
00:28:22.000We almost take it in with our mother's milk.
00:28:25.000Everything that we're taught in school is based upon it.
00:28:28.000Everything that we're taught in university is based upon it.
00:28:32.000And All I'm trying to do really is to provide some counterbalance to that dominant narrative.
00:28:39.000And so there are a lot of complaints that I don't include a lot of archaeologists criticizing my story in the series.
00:28:48.000But I think that's unnecessary because they are the dominant narrative.
00:28:52.000And this is just a small attempt to provide an alternative narrative to say there are some anomalies in prehistory which are not explained by the mainstream.
00:29:03.000Which don't fit into the picture they paint.
00:29:07.000And to say what I think those suggest to me.
00:29:10.000I do detest being called a pseudo-scientist and a pseudo-archaeologist because I'm not an archaeologist or a scientist.
00:29:21.000And I make that very clear in the series.
00:29:30.000And I hope that that will provide a bit of an antidote to the dominant case that's presented by archaeology.
00:29:37.000On contemporary civilization, on contemporary education, and on the contemporary imagination, by foreclosing on the possibility of advanced civilizations, and I'll add to this, because often I'm a fan of your content, I watch it a lot, and when you talk about gobleki-teki, and I'm not saying it right, or like many other significant monolithic sites, like They're not as good as, I don't know, the Shard or the Empire State Building.
00:30:07.000One, what changes about our presumptions around civilisation, progressivism and our presumed telos that humankind now is the best that it's ever been?
00:30:16.000What changes if we consider submerged narratives?
00:30:19.000And also, what is it in particular that is so impressive about some of the monolithic structures that you celebrate?
00:30:26.000Because of the way history is taught, because of the narrative of history that the mainstream push in every direction and that we take in with our education system, we are really taught that we are the apex and the pinnacle of the human story.
00:30:42.000That there were cavemen, and then there were hunter-gatherers, and then there were the civilizations.
00:30:47.000And it's all been a steady straight line evolutionary so-called progress up to us today.
00:30:53.000And I think that makes us feel very self-satisfied, very contented and unnecessarily secure about the future of our own civilization.
00:31:04.000What I hope raising questions about the possibility of a lost civilization will do is first of all Encourage people to be curious about the past, not just to accept what the so-called experts tell them.
00:31:20.000And secondly, to realize that maybe we're not the apex and the pinnacle of the human story.
00:31:25.000Maybe there's been many rises and falls.
00:31:27.000As to what's so special about these big megalithic monuments, what's special about them is when you get down to the detail, when you find Very precise astronomical alignments involved in the monuments, when you find a really detailed, long-term study of the sky embedded in the monuments.
00:31:50.000They're stones that tell a story, and they tell a story of the people behind them, who were people who paid attention to the cosmos and focused on it very, very closely.
00:31:58.000So, for example, we're taught that the phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes was discovered by the Greeks about 2,000 200 years ago or so.
00:32:09.000Yet another massive achievement of the past attributed to the Greeks.
00:32:13.000But there's a huge amount of evidence, and I won't bore your listeners with going into too much detail here.
00:32:19.000There's a huge amount of evidence that the precession of the equinoxes was noticed, documented, and thoroughly analysed way back in the last Ice Age, right back to Gobekli Tepe, as a matter of fact, and Pillar 43 in Enclosure D at Gobekli Tepe, and the diagram of the skies that it represents there.
00:32:40.000So, the point is that We're taught that only the Greeks were capable of discovering this, and they did it, but that our ancestors before the Greeks couldn't do it, and it's not considered that the Greeks were the recipients of an ancient heritage.
00:32:55.000And this is odd, because the Greeks themselves were perfectly open about that.
00:32:59.000They said, really, that they got all their knowledge from ancient Egypt.
00:33:04.000And yet we're sort of fascinated with attributing so many cultural advances to the Greeks.
00:33:09.000I'm not talking about a lost civilization that built space rockets or had cell phones or drove motor cars or made plastic.
00:33:19.000What I am talking about is the underestimation of our ancestors and the possibility of a forgotten episode which is an episode that was way ahead of its time according to the conventional narrative.
00:33:32.000I'm challenging the conventional narrative.
00:33:33.000I'm presenting facts and information which are not explained by that narrative.
00:33:39.000And I hope that this will, first of all, encourage people to take a real curious interest in the past rather than simply accept what they've been told.
00:33:49.000And secondly, that it might cause us to reconsider our own apex predator role.
00:33:55.000It seems that sometimes you allude to, even in your answer then, to the notion that perhaps we could access information in means not covered by rational materialism and the enhancement of the senses through various instruments of magnification, i.e.
00:34:17.000that if you could have astronomical knowledge without the telescope or even the ability to track patterns you know, accurately over centuries, that either there
00:34:28.000could be contact with a more advanced species or access to information and knowledge without
00:34:36.000going via material examination and experimentation. Is it a coincidence therefore, Mr Hancock,
00:34:43.000that you are also interested in Ayahuasca and DMT and methods of psychic exploration? And do you see
00:34:50.000there as being a corollary between these laboratories of the psyche and potential other alternative
00:35:02.000Again, I think this is a problem with the mainstream scientific narrative that Regarding ourselves as the apex and the pinnacle of the human story, we regard our technology as this wonderful genius thing.
00:35:15.000And of course, there are many genius things about our technology, but it may not be the only route to know stuff.
00:35:22.000There may be other ways to know stuff.
00:35:23.000I'm really interested in the work of Rupert Sheldrake.
00:35:26.000I don't know if you've ever had Rupert on your show.
00:36:05.000But there's a huge amount of evidence for reincarnation and for people having past lives and perhaps future lives as well.
00:36:12.000And I just think this needs to be taken into account rather than sneeringly dismissed By the mainstream.
00:36:18.000And again, because the mainstream narrative is so dominant, when I talk about this, all I'm trying to do is restore some balance to the debate.
00:36:25.000And it's interesting when I talk, actually, I mean, in my books, I talk about telepathy and telekinesis in a very minor way.
00:36:34.000I mean, you're talking about a page or two.
00:36:36.000Across hundreds or even thousands of pages.
00:36:39.000But when mainstream scientists attack my work, they cherry pick that and say, oh, Hancock believes in telepathy.
00:36:45.000And by the way, he takes drugs as well.
00:36:52.000So this is a way this is a way that's used to to simply and lazily in an incredibly idle way, just dismiss me.
00:37:01.000I think I think the experiences in altered states of consciousness, that dimethyltryptamine, DMT, which is the active ingredient of ayahuasca, ayahuasca itself, psilocybin, mushrooms, I think these experiences in altered states of consciousness are very important for people to have.
00:37:17.000These substances are non-addictive, and they open up a vision of the universe which is very different from the one that we're taught in school.
00:37:27.000And I don't think anybody should leave this life.
00:37:45.000It sounds like a noisy, meaningless conversation in a bar.
00:37:49.000Um, but, but, uh, the, the change in perspective that, that the psychedelics bring, I think is very important and that's why at last mainstream Science is catching up with this and we are recognizing that psychedelics can be healing medicines, that they can bring healing to people with post-traumatic stress disorder, that they can bring healing to people who fear death because suddenly the new perspective that arises is death is nothing to fear.
00:38:15.000It's just the next stage in our adventure.
00:38:17.000It's just the next part of our journey.
00:38:21.000People who are deeply depressed and locked in a very narrow frame and just can't escape from it.
00:38:29.000Psychedelics will often break them out of that frame, especially if done in a supervised way with people around who know what they're doing and who know what they're talking about.
00:38:39.000So I think these are important medicines.
00:38:42.000I have to brace myself every time I take ayahuasca.
00:38:49.000And then the next bit of the hard work is, okay, you learn stuff about yourself.
00:38:53.000These medicines will thrust your baggage at you.
00:38:56.000In a very forceful and very dramatic way.
00:39:00.000They'll show you the hurt and the pain that you've caused during the course of your life.
00:39:04.000And they will give you the opportunity to adjust that.
00:39:07.000Yes, you can't go back and fix past mistakes, but you don't have to repeat them in the future.
00:39:11.000Often we just don't see our own mistakes because we're so rushed and living through daily life.
00:39:17.000But psychedelics will offer the opportunity to see our own mistakes.
00:39:20.000So all in all, I think these are very valuable for getting a different perspective on our own lives, And on the world we live in.
00:39:28.000In the field of philosophy and linguistics, even within what we're terming mainstream academia, there has been a kind of reckoning in the form of post-structuralism, and in particular in the work of Foucault, to address even the subject of history from a different perspective.
00:39:49.000But there appear to be certain fields where there hasn't been a similar reckoning.
00:39:56.000I wonder Graham, because in both of these areas that we've touched upon, archaeology and psychedelics or sort of spiritual medicines, it appears that it's in a sense an opportunity to reframe what it is to be human is being offered through our subjective experience, which can potentially be altered and is not as static as we might assume it to be.
00:40:19.000And in terms of archaeology this sort of shared collective experience of our kind may not be what we've assumed it to be.
00:40:27.000So it seems that in both these disciplines what we're ultimately dealing with is power and dominion and an unwillingness to alter the framing because an adaptation of that framing may mean compromises in the realm of power and what we might consider it is to be a human being.
00:40:47.000Power is definitely involved in this, if I may come in at that point, because the plain fact of the matter is that the discipline of archaeology claims total power over the human past.
00:40:59.000I've been looking at some of the Twitter threads about my series that archaeologists have been posting, and they're saying, don't watch this, give it a double thumbs down, don't allow Netflix to make another season with this guy.
00:41:11.000They appear to regard themselves as the sole arbiters of the human past.
00:41:18.000And they seem to despise the general public and don't feel that the general public can make up their mind.
00:41:23.000That my views are somehow so dangerous that the general public will be polluted and might lose faith in the mainstream archaeological narrative.
00:44:20.000If I get one of them archaeologists, I'd grip him by his tweed jacket, him or her or they,
00:44:24.000I'd grip him by their tweed jacket and I'd say, "Take me to Gobleki Teke now, you bastard!"
00:44:30.000Gobekli Tepe is a problem, and it is something that needs to be brought into the argument, precisely because until Gobekli Tepe was excavated and studied, it was the dominant mainstream view that there could be no such thing as megalithic architecture before 6,000 years ago.
00:44:49.000Because you needed a settled civilization with agriculture generating services and allowing experts to emerge, architects, engineers and so on, to have a big megalithic site with precise astronomical alignments being put up.
00:45:06.000But Gobekli Tepe is 7,000 years older than Stonehenge.
00:45:11.000And it seems to come out of nowhere, and it's really problematic.
00:45:13.000And then we find that the people around Obekli Tepe were entirely hunter-gatherers when they began to build this site.
00:45:20.000And that in the thousand years that the site was used, they transformed from being hunter-gatherers into agriculturalists.
00:45:27.000And what I suggest is that rather than suggesting that a group of hunter-gatherers simply woke up one morning magically equipped To create the largest megalithic site on Earth 7,000 years before Stonehenge, that we're a species with amnesia and that there's a forgotten episode in the human story and that what we're looking at is a transfer of technology from the survivors of a civilization that got destroyed in the cataclysm that we know occurred at the end of the last Ice Age.
00:45:57.000Other points I think are very important.
00:46:00.000This is a wobble on the axis of the Earth.
00:46:02.000Because the Earth is the viewing platform from which we observe the stars, it changes the positions and orientations of the stars in the sky.
00:46:09.000There's compelling evidence that that knowledge goes way back into the Stone Age.
00:46:16.000There's a fantastic book by Giorgio de Santidiana and Hertha von Deschen.
00:46:20.000They were both professors of the history of science.
00:46:22.000Giorgio was professor of history of science at MIT, Hertha von Deschen at the University of Frankfurt, called Hamlet's Mill.
00:46:28.000And this book investigates ancient knowledge of precession.
00:46:32.000And it's completely ignored by archaeologists, even though it is It does emanate from mainstream scientists themselves.
00:46:40.000So the knowledge of this rather obscure and difficult to observe astronomical phenomenon, encoded in myths and traditions, going back into the deepest past, I think that's another one that archaeology is failing to get to grips with.
00:46:55.000Ancient maps that show the world as it looked ...during the last Ice Age and that have rather precise relative longitudes incorporated in them.
00:47:04.000In every case, these maps were drawn in the 15th, 16th, 17th centuries, but the mapmakers tell us that they based them on older source maps, which have now lost.
00:47:15.000Why, for example, does Antarctica appear on many of these old maps when our civilization didn't discover Antarctica until around 1820?
00:47:23.000And it's shown just a bit larger than it is today, as it was during the last ice age.
00:47:28.000The relative longitudes in these maps is important because longitude is a problem that our civilization
00:47:34.000didn't crack until the mid 18th century.
00:47:37.000So I think these are important issues as well.
00:47:40.000And then I agree with you that big stones in themselves don't say much, but when you go to a place like
00:47:46.000Sacsayhuaman in Cusco in Peru, and you see the incredible way
00:47:52.000that these massive blocks of stone are interlocked together like a kind of jigsaw puzzle.
00:47:58.000It really defies imagination as to how this was done.
00:48:02.000And I cannot accept that it was just a couple of guys grinding away at the stones and making them all fit together in that way.
00:48:09.000I don't think it's fully explained by the mainstream at all.
00:48:15.000So there have been a series of cataclysmic events that have caused us to lose not only civilisation and a different type of technology, a different type of perception, but our awareness even of ourselves.
00:48:30.000And I suppose there's this piety and presumptuousness that accompanies not only your arch enemies over there in archaeology, that every time we talk about you get so riled up, Graham, There's also this condescending and colonial, somewhat imperialist attitude towards folk knowledge and myth, precisely because it is, quote, unscientific, and there is the assumption that because it can't be verified, because it can't be experimented, because it can't be measured, that there's no value.
00:48:59.000Folk knowledge is a depository of so much, I would say, archetypal information that suggests there is a shared oral history that somehow resonates and remains in spite of the various... It's absolutely true in relation to flood myths and myths of a global cataclysm which are truly universal.
00:50:28.000There was a global cataclysm and we can't, we really are not smart to try and present a narrative about our story that doesn't take cataclysmic events into account, particularly when they're recent.
00:50:39.000I mean, who gives a fuck about the dinosaurs 67 or 66 million years ago, but 12,800 years ago, that's in our time.
00:50:47.000That's in the human timeframe, and it was a big cataclysm, and nobody disputes that.
00:50:53.000No geologist would say, oh, the Younger Dryas was just a minor event.
00:50:57.000We can argue about what caused it, but the nature of it is there, and it's there right at the beginning.
00:51:04.000The Younger Dryas ends 11,600 years ago, massive rise in sea levels, global temperatures shoot up, and then suddenly, weirdly, civilization emerges.
00:51:12.000I think it was a reboot of civilization, not just a sort of Automatic invention of civilization.
00:51:19.000That's why I think we've lost a big part of our story.
00:51:23.000And I may not be right, but I hope that people will consider that possibility and explore it.
00:51:29.000Even in the period of your acclaim, there have been shifts in the narrative around the population of North America and when that occurred.
00:51:39.000We're sort of seeing gradually some, and as I suppose this is true in all disciplines, If you have an orthodoxy, the orthodoxy is conservative and tradition oriented and it takes radical outsiders to change that framing and often those outsiders will be dismissed, discouraged, smeared and undermined.
00:52:02.000But as well as your work itself, which I have always found fascinating before other people did, before other people thought it was cool.
00:52:10.000I also think that the spirit of it is important.
00:52:13.000The area that interests me primarily currently, Graham, is the way that we appear to be dominated by a narrow set of ideals.
00:52:22.000We have very limited political choice.
00:52:24.000The state and corporations are in global harmony, preventing individual free will.
00:52:29.000Meanwhile, the media turns people against one another continually on the basis of cultural identity.
00:52:35.000And I feel that without a kind of the birth of a new ideology, something that can liberate and unify us simultaneously, where we can begin to again accept that people are different from one another, that humans may live in many different ways.
00:52:49.000And I consider the idea that humanity has been around longer.
00:52:52.000That there have been different iterations of civilization.
00:52:55.000That life is abundant and present elsewhere in the cosmos.
00:52:58.000That we can radically alter civilization.
00:53:02.000I consider that to be as important as anything else.
00:53:04.000We live in a dry-drab time with dry-drab num-dumb ideas continually dominating our contemporary narratives.
00:53:10.000and this sort of dearth of imagination contributes to that, that we're not able to explore our own psyche,
00:53:15.000we're not able to explore our own culture.
00:53:17.000And some things excite me when I hear you, like why not do more exploration in the rainforest?
00:53:21.000Why not do more exploration in the desert?
00:53:24.000Why not intrepidly and authentically and with integrity investigate our past?
00:53:30.000And it's because the notion of conservatism, it expands beyond your discipline and field of expertise,
00:53:36.000albeit in a non-traditional and non-conventional experiential expertise that you've acquired.
00:53:41.000And I feel that this spirit is vital and important.
00:53:46.000Hey, Graham, I really want to go and dig around in some of them sort of megalithic sites that I want to have a little nose about.
00:54:04.000I myself was banned from filming in Egypt for my series because a senior Egyptologist who advises the Egyptian government told them not to let Hancock in.
00:54:16.000Back in the old days, for me, the early 90s, late 80s, when I was first exploring the pyramids, it was a much freer place.
00:54:23.000I climbed the Great Pyramid five times, three times, Illegally.
00:55:00.000Try and figure out how they were made and what they all amount to.
00:55:03.000And then pay attention to ancient Egyptian civilization itself.
00:55:08.000A civilization that put its best minds to work for 3,000 years on the mystery of what happens to us after death.
00:55:14.000This was a deep inquiry that the ancient Egyptians went into.
00:55:17.000And I think we have to have enormous respect for them.
00:55:20.000And we have to also have respect for what they said about their past.
00:55:23.000That their past goes back much further than the beginnings of historical Egypt to a time that they called Zep Tepi, the first time.
00:55:30.000And there are a lot of astronomical reasons why we can pin that down to the Younger Dryas period.
00:55:36.000It seems with the false markers of technology and medicine, in particular in areas of communication, we can see evident and observable progress and therefore mistakenly believe that progress has been unilateral, that we are continuing to improve and that we are, as you describe it, apex predators astride all history, but potentially there are unexplored lineages, neurological and historical, archaeological and botanical, areas of reality as yet We're regressing, Russell, not progressing.
00:56:10.000This civilisation is on a downward path.
00:56:31.000The ethic that you were talking about earlier, that our sole purpose on this planet is to produce and consume, that we define ourselves by our possessions.
00:56:41.000What a limited picture of the human creature this is, and how our majestic potential is just being narrowed down into a very limited place.
00:57:15.000It will be the people who know how to survive, which the vast majority of people in our so-called advanced civilization haven't got a clue about because we're all dependent on other people's expertise in order to survive.
00:57:28.000I think we're a very fragile civilization.
00:57:30.000The hatred and fear and suspicion that's being deliberately manipulated in the world today and this one-sided focus on production and consumption It's a very bad path, Trev.
00:57:41.000We need to explore radical new alternatives.
00:57:45.000We can no longer settle for the dominant and dominator narratives, either politically or historically.
00:57:51.000Graham, I always enjoy talking to you.
00:57:53.000You give me so much cause for optimism, both in your work, but also in your incredible spirit.
00:58:03.000Well, right now I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and we're going to spend Thanksgiving with my son and daughter-in-law and our two grandchildren here in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
00:58:13.000And then we'll be back in England, my wife Santa and I, on the 3rd of December. It would be lovely to see you again,
01:00:56.000If you want to get a gift to celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ or some other thing that you're into, go right now and get some merchandise off of our store.
01:01:04.000All of the money we give to people with mental health and addiction issues.
01:01:08.000We help them get Clean and free and sane and stable, if ever such a thing were possible.
01:01:12.000There's a link in the description for that as well.
01:01:14.000And remember, while we're gone, you'll be able to see conversations with all sorts of fantastic guests.
01:01:56.000Let me know who you want to see on, and if you're a member of the Stay Free AF community, oh look at that lovely montage, we're going to do another 15 minutes taking your questions.
01:02:04.000Otherwise, we will see you next season!
01:02:07.000Not for more of the same, but for more of the different.