In this episode of Stay Free With Russell Brand, host Russell Brand is joined by Graham Hancock, host of the Netflix docuseries Ancient Apocalypse and author of America Before, The Key to Earth's Lost Civilization and The Mysterious Origins of Human Consciousness. The pair discuss the role archaeology plays in shaping our understanding of the past, the role archaeologists play in perpetuating myths and conspiracy theories, and the role of the mainstream media in smearing and condemning ideas that are considered too controversial for them to be allowed to have a say in. Stay Free with Russell Brand is available on all good podcasting platforms. To find a list of our sponsors and show-related promo codes, go to grahamhancock.co.uk/Stay-Free-With-Russell and use the promo code STAY-FREE at checkout to receive 10% off your first month with code FREE10 at checkout. If you're not a member of our local community yet, sign up to our locals community, join up to the community right now! Not only do you get my stand-up special Brandemic included in that package, but you also get my Standup Special Brandemic, which is a one-off deal you can buy as a one off deal, so you could also attend live events like these people are right now. Give us a round of applause and a cheer! That is the sweet, sweet sound of freedom! That's right, that is the Sweet, Sound of Freedom! That's the sound of Freedom. - That's The Sweet, Sweet, You Awakening Wonders! - the Sweet Sound Of Freedom - by Russell Brand. . Thanks for listening to this episode, you're listening to Stay Free, You're a Friend of Freedom, You'll get a chance to join in on the Ride With Me, I'm GRAHAM HANCKELLAN. And I'm Working On It! xoxo, EJ and I'll See You Soon, - EJ & GRAGHANCKEY! (Thank you for listening and Tweet Me! . . . - P.S. - I'll see you soon! Thank you! - - Thank You! - Timestamped by: - Timed by and I'm Sending Me Out! Timed By: & by: EJ, , ( )
00:00:01.000Welcome to Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:00:04.000Thanks for joining us for a very special show with a live audience.
00:00:07.000Wherever you're watching this right now, the first 10-15 minutes will be available on YouTube.
00:00:13.000Then we're going to click over to being exclusively on Rumble because the free speech must reign supreme.
00:00:18.000We're going to say stuff that the mainstream don't want you having access to, particularly because our guest today is a fantastic, radical enemy of orthodoxy, But powerful ally of truth.
00:00:31.000I've been friends with this man for a very, very long time.
00:00:34.000If you're not a member of our locals community yet, sign up to our locals community right now.
00:00:38.000Not only do you get my stand-up special Brandemic included in that package, though you can buy as a one-off deal, you could also come and attend live events like these people are right now.
00:00:47.000Give us a round of applause and a cheer!
00:01:10.000I reckon you need it about here, standard style, probably like that, about a hand away from your face, I would say so, Graham.
00:01:17.000And while you're setting up the mic and making yourself comfortable, I will give you an introduction.
00:01:21.000Graham is a journalist and presenter of the hit Netflix docuseries, Ancient Apocalypse, where he travels the You can see Graham talking live at Logan Hall on Saturday the 22nd of April.
00:01:29.000Tickets are available at grahamhancock.com.
00:01:30.000He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, America Before, The Key to Earth's Lost Civilization,
00:01:35.000and Visionary, The Mysterious Origins of Human Consciousness.
00:01:39.000You can see Graham talking live at Logan Hall on Saturday, the 22nd of April.
00:01:44.000Tickets are available at GrahamHancock.com.
00:01:47.000Some of you people live in the room might come.
00:01:48.000Some of you watching locals might come.
00:01:50.000Some of you watching us on Rumble and YouTube may come and see Graham at that fantastic
00:01:56.000I never neglect the opportunity to talk to Graham Hancock, so let's begin our conversation
00:02:00.000Graham, before we get into some of the more controversial stuff that we'll keep exclusive for our Rumble audience, in particular I want to talk about the way that you've been smeared and condemned for a subject that I wouldn't consider to be as contentious as evidently the mainstream consider it to be.
00:02:16.000Before we get into that and talking about what the objectives of the mainstream media are, we'll just lightly introduce ourselves for 10 minutes.
00:02:24.000By asking you, what is it, Graham, that first ignited your interest in arcane civilizations?
00:02:30.000What is it in particular that you think is being revealed or being neglected by the potential for a cataclysmic event that obscures the origin of our species?
00:02:42.000I think the problem is the institution of archaeology.
00:02:48.000I want to be clear, I have nothing against individual archaeologists.
00:02:52.000On the contrary, I've met many wonderful individual archaeologists and I couldn't do the work that I do without the work that archaeology has done.
00:03:00.000But there's a difference between individual archaeologists and archaeology speaking as an institution.
00:03:05.000For example, the Society for American Archaeology with its 5,000 members.
00:03:10.000They seem to take a view that the only people who are entitled to interpret the past of humanity are archaeologists, particularly the remote past.
00:03:20.000There's a role for historians, of course, where we have documents, but once you get back into the remote past where you don't have documents and you're dealing with artifacts dug out of the ground, they seem to feel that only archaeologists are authorized to speak about this and that anybody else who puts a different point of view into the conversation is a danger and a threat and must be silenced.
00:03:45.000I was disappointed by, not so much by the archaeologists because I kind of expected this, but I was disappointed by the idleness and lack of rigour of journalists who covered this story.
00:03:58.000who simply took their cues from archaeology, never talked to me, and published stories about it, which were often very unpleasant.
00:04:07.000At the same time, I've had a major Netflix show, my voice is out there, and it's right and proper that it should be opposed and counter-minded.
00:04:16.000I'm pleased that it started a conversation and a debate around all this, but what I object to is when people create straw men around my work.
00:04:26.000A lot of it is Graham Hancock says this, Graham Hancock says that.
00:04:44.000I found again and again in the critiques that have been floated about my work that individuals are saying that Hancock says this when in fact I never do say that.
00:04:54.000Then they attack that straw man and hope that nobody will look deeper and investigate.
00:04:59.000The whole project seems to have been to to prevent people or discourage people from exploring my work.
00:05:09.000That's when I came to realise that I'm involved in some kind of propaganda war here.
00:05:14.000The tools of propaganda are being used by mainstream archaeology as an institution in order to beat down alternative narratives.
00:05:25.000It's interesting that in such a short period of time the ability to communicate openly around a range of subjects that I find surprising in so much as I find it surprising that it's become extensively censored and so rapidly.
00:05:42.000It suggests that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the way that information is handled, that authoritarianism is on the rise, and accompanying that, of course, we're aware that surveillance and censorship are increasing, that looking for opportunities to regulate appears to be a kind of guiding principle in the approach to crisis across as broad a range of subjects as war and even Health.
00:06:12.000They become sort of approached in this aggressively regulatory manner.
00:06:16.000The thing that interests me, and we'll touch more deeply upon the more controversial aspects of the reporting on your work exclusively on Rumble in just a few more minutes.
00:06:28.000So if you're watching this on YouTube now, click on the link in the description so that you can join us over there.
00:06:34.000But first of all, I'd like to just have a basic understanding, if I may, of the fundamental argument, at least the one that I hear you advancing more recently, that there was a seismic, cataclysmic event at some point.
00:06:52.000I feel like you say often it was around 12,000 years ago.
00:06:55.000Yeah, it wasn't a single moment, it was an episode.
00:07:40.000We'd been coming out of the Ice Age, the world had been warming up and then suddenly it just got freezing cold again, as cold as it had been at the peak of the Ice Age.
00:07:50.000And weirdly, at that moment around 12,800 years ago, and this shouldn't happen when the Earth goes into a freezing period, there was a rise in sea level.
00:07:59.000Which meant that water that should have stayed frozen had come off the ice caps and was entering the world ocean.
00:08:05.000And that rise in sea level of freezing water coming off the ice caps cut the Gulf Stream and stopped what's called the Global Meridional Circulation, which is a central heating system of our planet.
00:08:15.000It kept the Earth cold for a very long time.
00:08:28.000And a number of theories just focus on that changing of ocean currents and saying that's what made the Earth cold without saying why did the ocean currents change.
00:08:36.000And the best explanation for that is put forward by a group called the Comet Research Group.
00:08:41.000They started off as about 60 all mainstream scientists.
00:09:27.000What happened to the Earth was that a comet, which was estimated originally to have been 100 miles in diameter, entered the inner solar system, was tugged on by gravitational forces, began to break up into multiple fragments, and 12,800 years ago the first bunch of those fragments, like a shotgun blast, peppered the Earth.
00:09:48.000And because the Earth is turning, that peppering covered a very wide expanse of the Earth's surface, right from North America right across to Syria.
00:09:57.000There's evidence of these impacts, airbursts, explosions in the sky, sometimes on the ground.
00:10:02.000And then further evidence which takes it down into South America and as far south as Antarctica.
00:10:08.000It's called the Younger Dryas boundary layer and the only possible explanation for it in my view, and I've been through all possible explanations, the best one is the fragmenting comet explanation.
00:10:19.000And then, because the fragmenting comet creates a meteor stream, that meteor stream by the way still exists, it's called the Taurid meteor stream.
00:10:28.000We pass through it twice a year and that's why we have the so-called Halloween fireworks.
00:10:32.000We see a lot of shooting stars around October.
00:10:35.000We pass through it in June and then October, November.
00:10:38.000What happens is that this meteor stream has spread out.
00:10:41.000It's very, very wide now and it includes many filaments of debris.
00:10:45.000Some of them are small and some of them are very, very large.
00:10:49.000And what appears to have happened between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago was that the Earth passed repeatedly through large bits of this meteor stream and was repeatedly impacted.
00:11:02.000So the big event is 12,800 years ago, but there's another huge event 11,600 years ago.
00:11:08.000And sea level rise at that point, it's called Meltwater Pulse 1B.
00:11:15.000Now archaeologists say it wasn't so huge, it was spread out over a number of years, but you can't take an average as to what happens in a particular year.
00:11:21.000You can have a year where there's a massive sea level rise and another year where there's none.
00:11:26.000If you take the average of that, you're not getting the true picture of what's happening.
00:11:29.000But I think it's true to say that if our civilisation was confronted by an overnight 30 foot rise in sea level, it would have devastating effects on our civilisation and it had devastating effects on the world Well...
00:11:43.000What you've said is so broad, diverse, and includes a lot of data, cosmological, geological, and it's quite wide ranging.
00:11:55.000And I can see how it would be difficult to make those claims irrefutably.
00:12:01.000It doesn't appear to me that anything you're saying is so contentious as to warrant censorship.
00:12:09.000Do you think that the attacks that you have foregone, have received, have been the recipient of, are motivated by the kind of reflexive protection of orthodoxy that could be applicable in any field?
00:12:26.000Or do you feel that as this pertains to Our particular history as a species, our hermeneutics, our worldview, progressivism, and I mean technological, medicinal and scientific progressivism in particular, are challenged by the idea that we are not currently experiencing the apex of human civilization and the hubris that would be punctured by that is threatened by the idea that
00:12:55.000We are not now the greatest that we have ever been, that there is much to learn.
00:13:17.000Secondly, it came as quite a surprise to me, but I realise it's part of the culture now.
00:13:26.000One of the reasons I was attacked was because my series, Ancient Apocalypse, seemed to be calling into question the expertise of archaeologists.
00:13:36.000And what the journalists did with that is say, what's going to happen next?
00:13:39.000Are we going to call into question all expertise?
00:13:43.000It seemed to be about a defense of experts in our society.
00:13:46.000Now, I've got nothing against experts.
00:13:51.000alive today because of experts after a catastrophic epileptic seizure in 2017.
00:14:10.000They should not say, we know everything and you must simply do what we tell you.
00:14:15.000And that seemed to be the primary reaction to the series, that it was undermining confidence in experts and that somehow this is threatening to our society.
00:14:28.000And then secondly, Russell, yes, you're right, the idea that I'm putting forward that we may have lost a whole episode in the human story.
00:14:34.000Which, we haven't lost it completely because it's been passed down to us in myths and traditions all around the world, but that we've lost to our, if you like, our institutional memory.
00:14:45.000The notion that there existed a civilization during the Ice Age does raise important questions over our civilization today.
00:14:53.000And first of all, is it actually the apex and pinnacle of human achievement as we imagine it to be, as we're taught it is?
00:15:00.000You know, we're taught that we're the end of a long line of intellectual evolution that has finally brought us to this high point of complete Control and understanding of the universe and suddenly we're tipped from that pinnacle and we have to wrestle with the possibility that there may have been other kinds of civilizations which may have done things in different ways from the way we do them.
00:16:00.000That there's a kind of hubris and haughtiness, whether it's witnessing Fauci admonishing African Americans on the doorstep for vaccine hesitancy, and we're covering that in a later show, Or elsewhere, where there's a denial of spiritual principles based on that which is measurable.
00:16:20.000Of course, if something is ineffable and beyond our sensory dimensions, then it's going to
00:16:27.000be difficult to empirically demonstrate it.
00:16:31.000We're going to leave YouTube now, and for the rest of the show, we'll be exclusively
00:16:35.000available on Rumble, talking about a whole range of ideas.
00:16:39.000You can click the link in the description and join us there.
00:16:42.000And remember, go to Graham Hancock's website if you want to see him live.
00:16:47.000Graham, I love having the opportunity to talk to you because I guess we get to investigate
00:16:56.000When you were talking about this idea of a lost civilization or a golden age, it's significant and interesting to see how frequently that appears in scripture and mythology.
00:17:07.000Of course, a Jungian or Campbellian, shall we say, analysis of that would be that it's harking back to a kind of prenatal state.
00:17:14.000We're suspended in fluid, we all lived in perpetual bliss, our every need met, not aware of separation, till we were cast out of the garden, forced to fend for ourselves.
00:17:30.000And I've still been trying to find a way back, let me tell you!
00:17:34.000Do you think then that the sort of seeming collective memory of Atlantis or a kind of a golden age or an imperature of a utopia that proceeds rather than a utopia to which we aspire is psychological in its origin Or sociological?
00:17:54.000I know that you're saying it's sociological because of the events you've just described, but do you think that, because it seems that one of the most contentious things you say, or one of the things for which you are most attacked, appears to be, you know, like when you talk about Plato, talking about Atlantis, and also I know another thing, because I did some research and I try not to, Graham.
00:18:14.000Because I do like to shoot from the hip.
00:18:25.000One of the things I saw is that when you talk about them kind of sonar radar type scans, you'll tell us the right word in a second, that are possible to do with like the Amazon, and you say, oh, it could be that there's stuff down there.
00:18:37.000One of the leery attacks from the mainstream that I saw is, well, the one where I fall, Oh my God, I know Graham Hancock.
00:19:00.000Well, one of the things seemed to be like, oh, like, that you've said, using these sonar detection things, it looks like there could be structures in the Amazon.
00:19:10.000Right, well, one of the things I read was them going, that could be a whole host of things!
00:19:14.000So I'd like to know about the stuff about Plato, and I'd like to know about the stuff of what them sonar things are detecting in the Amazon, please.
00:19:22.000Alright, well first of all, the story of Atlantis.
00:19:25.000If you mention the word Atlantis to any archaeologist, they will tend to roll their eyes on the assumption that they're dealing with somebody from the lunatic fringe.
00:19:36.000So almost by definition, if you take the concept of Atlantis seriously, you're regarded by archaeologists and their friends in the media as a kind of lunatic.
00:19:45.000I've always found this odd, because the earliest surviving source for the tradition of Atlantis is the highly respected figure of Plato.
00:19:55.000He passes it down to us in dialogues called the Timaeus and the Critias.
00:20:01.000He speaks of an advanced civilization, which was headquartered on an island, and that that island was submerged by an enormous flood, and in a single day and night was completely destroyed.
00:20:17.000Now, the view of archaeology is that this is all a fantastic tale that Plato made up, that he simply wanted to make some kind of political or philosophical point, so he invented Atlantis.
00:20:34.000Immediately contradicting that is the fact that there are hundreds of traditions from all around the world.
00:20:39.000Plato is the one that calls it Atlantis, but there are hundreds of traditions from all around the world that speak of a great flood and the destruction of a former civilization.
00:20:50.000And then the second issue is that Plato includes precise scientific information in the story, and this is what archaeology is ignoring.
00:21:00.000When it says that it's all a fantastical made-up tale.
00:21:03.000And it's to do with that Meltwater Pulse 1B that I mentioned, that brought the Younger Dryas to an end 11,600 years ago and raised sea levels massively.
00:21:15.000Plato said that the story came to him through his family line.
00:21:19.000His family line included the Greek lawmaker Solon some two or three hundred years before.
00:21:25.000Plato was writing in the 300 Solons around 600 BC.
00:21:29.000And Solon made a famous and historically recorded visit to Egypt.
00:21:50.000He's visiting a temple that no longer exists, the Temple of Neith at Sise in the Delta, and he's shown writings on the walls by the priests.
00:21:59.000And he says, what do these writings say?
00:22:01.000And the priests then unravel the whole story of Atlantis and they tell how there was this great advanced civilization, which at one time was extremely beneficial and positive to the world, but which fell out of harmony with the universe, became domineering, began to impose its power on other peoples around the world, became arrogant, became overconfident in itself, suffered from hubris, and a ringing phrase ceased to wear its moderation with prosperity.
00:22:34.000And the universe intervened and struck Atlantis down.
00:22:38.000So Solon said to the priests, OK, when did this happen?
00:22:42.000And they said, quite matter-of-factly, oh, 9,000 years ago.
00:23:32.000Visit the Temple of Horus at Edfu in Upper Egypt, which is still standing, and you will find the Edfu building texts which relate the entire Atlantis story.
00:23:41.000They call it the homeland of the primeval ones, but it's an island.
00:23:45.000It's struck down and drowned in a flood.
00:23:47.000There are survivors, and some of those survivors come to Egypt and create primeval mounds, which are to be the site of all future temples and pyramids in Egypt.
00:23:54.000So the connection to ancient Egypt that Solon draws and Plato passes on is actually very real.
00:24:02.000And I'm pleased to say that there has now been a full translation of the Edfu text, which is a translation into German.
00:24:10.000The German Archaeological Institute and an individual called Dieter Kurth.
00:24:13.000It's an incredibly important translation and it is going to completely unravel the archaeological position on the Egyptian origins of the story of Atlantis.
00:24:24.000And this is going to be very disturbing for archaeology.
00:24:28.000I am beginning to understand why there's opposition to challenging convention, because it feels like elsewhere in our culture there is a strong appetite to impose centralised control on many established institutions.
00:24:48.000I have read and often reflected on the writing of this CIA analyst Martin Goury.
00:24:53.000He says that since we've had the technology to communicate en masse and immediately create counter-narratives, the establishment has had the option of either accepting there are now numerous publics accumulating and aggregating around different issues and to democratize
00:25:09.000information and democratize power as much as possible and recognize that the era of
00:25:13.000centralization is sort of coming to a type of conclusion or to double down on authoritarianism,
00:25:19.000smear dissent in all of its forms, try to control the narrative by creating
00:25:48.000Plainly, only clinical trials are being undertaken that at some point may become profitable.
00:25:55.000Perhaps There are less easy to observe biases indeed, that's much of your argument, that take place in every field and notably in this case archaeology.
00:26:03.000Because if we start to present a different human history, a different possibility for human future starts to naturally emerge.
00:26:11.000In my own contemplation of how we might live, I think How did we evolve to live?
00:26:32.000How do we engage with God or the unknowable?
00:26:36.000If there are different cultural examples of that, that may be obfuscated by the events you describe, but nevertheless, Point to the fact that they may not be savages grunting around and dragging things off into caves, whether to eat them or fornicate with them, but a highly advanced species that could move mountains with their minds, that communicate with unknowable beings from other dimensions, that unlock mathematical mysteries, that appear in hieroglyphs etched upon ancient walls.
00:27:10.000Then the supremacy of the modern era and the The attitudes that represent it suddenly seem a little more fallible.
00:27:18.000That's what I saw most strongly of all in the reaction to Ancient Apocalypse, which is that that reaction says that there are forces at work in our society that do not want people thinking for themselves, that do not want people doing their own research and investigating subjects directly, that want people simply to accept what the so-called experts tell them.
00:27:39.000to buy that in the whole cloth and not argue with it and dispute it in any way.
00:27:45.000And I think that that is a sinister trend in our society.
00:27:49.000Yes, there's a role for experts, I've said that already, play an important role, but there's also a role for the individual researcher and for people who get their sleeves rolled up and get down into detail investigating the past for themselves.
00:28:04.000And while It may be true that a pilot of an airplane does really need to be trained in order to fly that airplane.
00:28:13.000I wouldn't like to get into an airplane if the pilot wasn't trained to fly an airplane.
00:28:57.000Were you not, um, or within it, excuse me, were you not upset, like, your wife's Amphae, she's a woman of colour, what about when they say you're racist?
00:29:15.000This is where I speak of a propaganda war, because it's as though they selected certain keywords.
00:29:20.000If we can apply these keywords, if enough people repeat these keywords, then people won't read any of Hancock's work or look at his series.
00:29:27.000And those keywords included saying that my work supports white supremacy, that it encourages racism, That it's misogynistic and that it's anti-semitic.
00:29:39.000All of those phrases were applied to my series.
00:29:44.000Except to say... I'm against all those things!
00:29:49.000If we stick these labels enough and if enough people repeat these labels then people say we won't bother reading Hancock because he's a racist and a white supremacist.
00:30:41.000Have a look at the orthodox, what do I want to say, Pharisee-like contempt that is dispatched by people in positions of scientific authority.
00:30:51.000Of course if you're in a position of scientific authority, you have scientific authority.
00:30:54.000That's where it ends. It's not authority to start telling people what to do, shut shit down.
00:30:58.000Like it starts to... what they appear to do is demark a territory where the expertise is difficult to dispute
00:31:07.000and then use that as a point of departure for applicable authority, despotism and tyranny.
00:31:16.000And once you start saying, hey, maybe the past isn't what we think it is, should we look at some new ideas?
00:31:19.000It's always been the case that advancing and emergent ideas come from the periphery
00:31:24.000because the establishment has a vested interest in containing it.
00:31:28.000It's a personal set of human hermeneutics, its own personal epistemology.
00:31:33.000It guards it for that is the source of its power.
00:31:36.000Once you break open the tabernacle and start saying, hey, why don't we all have a look around?
00:31:39.000How about we all have our own relationship with God?
00:31:41.000How about we all, like, that doesn't mean you're going to let some nitwit be in charge of an airplane or a pandemic response.
00:31:47.000But you do also want to know, are the people in charge of this response financially invested in particular outcomes?
00:31:53.000Are we getting all of the available information?
00:31:58.000Are they allowing all potential voices to participate in this conversation?
00:32:01.000Oddly, for all of their talk of diversity, they seem pretty interested in exclusivity, and in particular, exclusion.
00:32:08.000And so I suppose, like, your particular case, uh demonstrates what these forces will do when a new emergent voice is heard and becomes popular even if it seems odd to use phrases like anti-semitism misogyny and it don't make sense even the racism thing really really really hurt me
00:32:30.000At a personal level, because as you rightly say, Santhe is a woman of colour.
00:32:34.000She's of South Indian origin, born in Malaysia.
00:32:46.000And I couldn't get why that was being flung at me, except that it would be a useful way to turn people off my work.
00:32:53.000And that's the propaganda aspect of this, that I realise that I am involved in a propaganda war.
00:33:00.000And that needs to be taken seriously, if I'm going to get my point of view across.
00:33:06.000And the other thing is, and I'd like to come on to this Amazon issue.
00:33:12.000So archaeologists claim, or archaeology as an institution claims, that they know enough about the past to rule out completely any possibility of any kind of thing that we would call a civilisation during the Ice Age.
00:33:27.000But there's a real problem with that, because archaeology has only investigated tiny areas of the world.
00:33:33.000A great deal of archaeology that's done is done because a road or a dam is being built, and archaeologists are called in to make sure that there's nothing of historical interest in there.
00:33:43.000So it's random in that sense, the areas that they're looking at.
00:33:46.000Then Most important to me is that issue of sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age.
00:33:52.000That 400 foot rise in sea level that occurred when the Ice Age came to an end.
00:33:58.000The 27 million square kilometres of continental shelves that were swallowed up by the sea at that time, which have hardly been investigated by archaeology.
00:34:10.000There is some marine archaeology, They're even beginning now, just in the last few years, to look at the continental shelves and that's when the whole notion of Doggerland was discovered, that Britain was joined to the continent and that there were people there.
00:34:32.000Yeah, so the main focus of marine archaeology is on shipwrecks from relatively recent history.
00:34:39.000There needs to be a much more comprehensive survey of the continental shelves before we can write off the possibility of a civilisation destroyed in that cataclysm.
00:34:47.000And it's not only the continental shelves.
00:34:49.000Then you've got the nine million square kilometres of the Sahara Desert.
00:34:52.000We know for sure that there were periods during the Ice Age when the Sahara was rich and fertile.
00:35:01.000And yet, because it's remote, because it's very expensive to operate there, very little archaeology has been done in the Sahara.
00:35:08.000So that's another nine million square kilometres of the Earth's surface that archaeology really doesn't know a lot about.
00:35:14.000And then there's the Amazon rainforest.
00:35:16.000Now, it used to be about 7 million square kilometres, but these horrific clearances that have been taking place in the Amazon have brought it down to closer to 5, 5 to 6 million square kilometres that are still untouched under canopy rainforest.
00:35:31.000And this is another area where Only very minimal archaeology has been done.
00:35:36.000And for archaeology to claim that it knows everything about our past, while it's not investigated the continental shelves, it's not investigated the Sahara Desert, and it's not investigated the Amazon rainforest, is a terrible oversight in my view, particularly since...
00:35:51.000I repeat, I'm not against individual archaeologists.
00:35:56.000And there are archaeologists now working with a technology called LiDAR, Light Imaging and Detecting and Ranging, which you fly a plane over the area that you want to look at, and it can look down through the canopy of the Amazon rainforest, and it can see what's underneath it.
00:36:10.000And what they're finding is evidence of enormous cities that existed in the Amazon.
00:36:16.000Oddly enough, those cities were actually spoken about by a Spanish traveler in the late 1500s.
00:36:27.000Because the Spanish brought with them smallpox.
00:36:30.000And the smallpox completely destroyed the populations of the Amazon.
00:36:34.000But at one time, it was a flourishing, highly populated area.
00:36:40.000Secondly, they were creating enormous sacred constructions, things that we would call henges today, like Avebury Henge, that deep circular trench that surrounds Avebury.
00:36:49.000In the Amazon, the LiDAR technology is finding dozens and dozens of examples of these.
00:37:08.000They've been physically examined in places that have been already cleared of rainforest.
00:37:13.000They definitely exist, they're definitely old, and what's needed now is a much more thorough investigation of the Amazon rainforest itself by archaeology, if archaeology wishes to continue to claim that it knows everything about the human past.
00:37:27.000It's analogous in many ways to fields that I pay more attention to myself, where there is an assumption that where there has been no exploration or observation, nothing exists.
00:37:44.000Once, there's Brian Cox, who's someone I actually really like, he's an atheist and stuff.
00:37:50.000Like he said, if you can't measure it, it isn't there.
00:37:54.000And I felt like, but Surely that means that we are limiting all potential realities to the realities that can be contained by sensory instruments, that by their nature must be limited.
00:38:04.000Yeah, literally to weighing, measuring and counting.
00:38:07.000Reality is confined to what we can weigh, measure and count.
00:38:26.000But it's dismissed automatically, because most scientists say, of course there's no such thing as telepathy.
00:38:32.000The brain is the generator of all consciousness, and it's limited to our bodies, and it cannot communicate with other brains without words or language in between.
00:38:39.000It's necessarily speculative to include Carl Sagan's beautiful idea that everything ever said is still reverberating limitlessly in space, that TV broadcasts in the 1940s emanate still there amidst the limitless.
00:38:54.000And if you can accept that vibration operates in that way and there is a vibrational quality to consciousness, the idea that consciousness could be intercommunicative Speculatively, at least, that seems plausible.
00:39:06.000But within this idea that only that which can be measured can be real is the ridiculous assumption that by some extraordinary coincidence we have been endowed with all potential instruments for discerning all potential realities.
00:39:20.000When even most basic mainstream cosmology includes the idea of infinity and eternity.
00:39:27.000Wouldn't it be an extraordinary coincidence that on one hand you accept the infinite and on the other hand you say, but we have got all of the necessary instruments to evaluate the infinite.
00:39:43.000I've noticed it in the cherry picking of my work that critics do.
00:39:49.000I have, from time to time, I think it might take up two pages in America Before, a book I published in 2019, and maybe a page or two in other earlier books, where I've speculated, is this lost civilisation that I'm looking for, did they have other ways of manipulating matter that we don't have?
00:40:10.000Should I perhaps take seriously the ancient Egyptian traditions of priests chanting and raising blocks into the air?
00:40:20.000And I actually think I should take that seriously because I've climbed the Great Pyramid five times and it's an incredibly difficult, impossible monument to explain.
00:40:27.000Everything about it is just mind-blowing.
00:40:31.000And the notion that huge long ramps, sloping at 10 degrees, that teams of people pulled 20, 30, 70 ton blocks up and deposited them inside the Great Pyramid above the King's Chamber at about 300 feet above the ground.
00:40:47.000I think that the conventional method of explaining that is very limited and I think we should be open to the possibility that we are not the masters of everything that human beings can do and that it is possible that people did things in a different way in the past, that telekinesis may have been a real power.
00:41:03.000Now the point I want to make is that in my work That is a tiny fraction of 1% of what I write, and I label it from the beginning as speculation.
00:41:15.000But when archaeologists critique my work, that's what they focus on.
00:41:19.000Hancock believes in telepathy and telekinesis.
00:41:24.000Once again, we're dealing with propaganda, and once again we're dealing with a fixed paradigm about what reality is.
00:41:30.000Racist Hancock believes that Mind Lego made Egypt.
00:41:35.000It's like, what they'll do, even with a conversation like this one, they'll find the bits that are like, you know, what that does is it inhibits the spirit of mental adventure.
00:41:47.000The commodity of imagination is our great gift.
00:41:50.000That all of the wonders of the world come via the human imagination.
00:41:54.000That it's a gift that is equally endowed upon us all.
00:41:57.000That we might all embark on these ideas.
00:42:09.000Because establishment interests have to be observed.
00:42:12.000People that say that no change is necessary are people that benefit from things saying the same.
00:42:16.000And it's in particular in your work, because it seems odd to me that, sort of, it's not whimsical, because it couldn't be more important where human beings come from.
00:42:24.000I'm not trying to, I'm obviously not being dismissive of your work.
00:42:26.000But it's not like your field is directly about how power structures should be organised.
00:42:31.000It's not like your work is to make Pfizer accountable for their profits in the last couple of years, or did the CIA kill JFK?
00:42:39.000It's not like you're going into territory where it's like, whoa, what's this dude saying?
00:42:44.000Some fascinating musings about the great mystery of humankind.
00:43:24.000So this is another one of those key phrases in our society that can be applied without Any effort or energy on the part of the person applying them, with complete idleness, just call him a conspiracy theorist, just call him a racist, just call him a white supremacist, call him an anti-Semite and we'll turn people off his work right away.
00:43:44.000This is the problem that we're dealing with and it's a sinister trend in our society that is not limited to the field that I work in.
00:43:53.000And while it is often claimed that we live in the era of great freedom, I'm not sure that we do.
00:43:59.000I think we live in an era of very sophisticated mind control.
00:44:04.000I'm not sure how much planning there is behind that.
00:44:07.000I'm not certain how much coordination there is behind that, but the tools and the techniques are available and propaganda is one of those tools and techniques to shut down alternative narratives, that there must be one controlling
00:44:18.000narrative that runs our society and that anything that questions that must be
00:44:24.000shut down and any dirty trick that can be deployed to question that will be
00:44:30.000It's obviously throughout all worlds writing that where sensorialism can flourish best
00:44:38.000is when they control even your imagination.
00:44:41.000The private spaces of your mind become eerie and forbidden to you, that you daren't dream, that you daren't believe that you can create a better life, a better world.
00:44:53.000When they foreclose on even contemplation and imagination, they prevent change.
00:44:58.000So you start to see how... And as I'm fond of recounting, George Carlin said, there is no requirement for conspiracy where interests converge.
00:45:08.000And without becoming conspiratorial, if you look, for example, at the pandemic, if pharmaceutical interests to profit and government interests to regulate and control converge, you can see that there's a kind of momentum that takes place.
00:45:23.000When you have systems where the individuals within them are not significantly empowered, As Yanis Varoufakis told us when they were trying to get Tsaritsa's win in the Greek elections ratified, verified, and the mandate they'd received from the Greek public to not pay back the bank loans around the 2008 crash, he said he realized when dealing with the EU that the person he was talking to, even this is some high-up bod within the EU, had no power.
00:45:47.000That person, if you're the kind of person that's gonna go, Actually, we will honour that democratic right.
00:46:07.000The kids that are getting kicked out of the school, the kids that aren't getting into the university, the kids that are getting lifed off on a bloody medication, the Ritalin and stuff, from day one, you're being shut down.
00:46:18.000What do you think is the function of education primarily?
00:46:24.000Maybe you went to a private school and they made you a conformist that can flourish in the labour market for that class of people.
00:46:29.000Or maybe you went to a state school and you can compete in the labour market for those type of jobs.
00:46:34.000But what you will remember, using your own mind, and this is not a critique of teachers, who I revere and respect and love, is that the function of education is to generate conformity, not free thought.
00:46:52.000Since you brought up the pandemic... I do, I bring it up!
00:46:56.000Let me just address that for a moment, because that's another one of those subjects that now people can't talk about in a way.
00:47:03.000If you question any of the mainstream narrative about the pandemic, you're immediately regarded as a Disruptive influence, a conspiracist, somebody who's undermining society in some way.
00:47:27.000I don't know whether it was deliberately released into the world as a result of genetic engineering or whether it was some sort of accidental.
00:48:00.000Whether there was a conspiracy behind making it, that's not my subject.
00:48:04.000But I can say, looking at this, that it's been exploited and used by government to persuade people to be obedient.
00:48:11.000And to not only do that but to tell people that by being obedient it's in your interests and it's in everybody else's interests as well.
00:48:18.000This is very sinister and very dangerous and as it spreads into other areas of society it shuts down all conversation and all possibilities of dispute.
00:48:26.000My interest, and I sense the interest of the people watching this now live on Locals, which you can do if you're a member of our community, or watching us on Rumble because we're getting into some shady territory now, baby, is that it provided an opportunity to observe how power functions.
00:48:41.000Of course, I'm not claiming to be an expert in epidemiology or the pharmaceutical response to a disease.
00:48:48.000I'm absolutely willing to take the advice of experts.
00:48:51.000But as you say, we can observe in real time, in a relatively short period of time, what type of information was shared at the beginning of the pandemic, what kind of information was repressed, what information has subsequently come out, what voices were silenced, what narratives were promoted, what measures were taken, and always the biggest clue of all, Benefited.
00:49:12.000Was there a wealth transfer of five trillion dollars?
00:50:03.000But it seems some decision has been made, and I would suggest that it's a result of them understanding that the means of control now exist.
00:50:10.000Whether that's through a militarized police force, whether that's through AI, whether that's through the ability to control narratives, smear dissenters, shut down inquiring voices.
00:50:23.000Not appeasement of the populace, but come and get us.
00:50:26.000Come and get us is the shift that's being made now, that they are willing to take it to the next level.
00:50:32.000This is a great conversation with Glenn Greenwald.
00:50:34.000He put it better than I could, but it suggests to me that there's been a sort of a shift because there's a point where a docile population slumbering on a sofa, consuming dumb TV and downing sugar, that's okay.
00:50:48.000Most of us aren't going to go to the streets if we're relatively comfortable.
00:51:05.000And there needs to be an awakening around this because there are sinister forces at work.
00:51:10.000I'm not going to pin them down and say this group or that group or this pharmaceutical company or another, but a general mind control operation is at work in our society.
00:51:21.000Whether, as I said, whether it's highly organized or not, I'm not sure.
00:51:24.000But the tools are there to shut down debate and dissent.
00:51:29.000And it doesn't involve having a dictator sitting at the top.
00:51:33.000It all unfolds within the context of democracy, as long as people can be persuaded that it's in their interests to bow down to that particular set of ideas.
00:51:43.000And this is an advancing trend in our society.
00:51:46.000A new technology is being deployed to use it.
00:51:49.000And although Social media are very helpful in getting alternative voices out.
00:51:55.000They're also used in the opposite way as well.
00:51:59.000It was very interesting, the social media response to my shows has been The audience reaction, pretty positive.
00:52:09.000And then an organised team come in and start planting comets.
00:52:14.000And then I begin to realise that they're an organised team when they have different names but they use all the same words.
00:52:32.000Now, one of the advantages that we offer to our locals community was the ability to attend this live event.
00:52:38.000Join our locals community right now and you too could be in this audience listening to us going on and on and on about how there's got to be a revolution.
00:52:45.000I'm looking at some of the comments online there.
00:52:48.000Someone just quoted Malcolm X. They send the drugs down to Harlem to keep us docile and easy to control.
00:53:39.000saying that. That's really kind of you to say that.
00:53:46.000Yeah, it's been a 30-plus year journey for me of constant engagement in this issue, and it touches my heart when I hear what you've just said.
00:53:58.000So, you've mentioned at the beginning, June, October, the Torrid Shower, and that each time that happens, our odds of being hit are much increased.
00:54:54.000Actually, it's a fragment of that original comet that broke up.
00:54:59.000When it entered the inner solar system, there's Rudniki, there's Ojato, there's a whole number of large objects in the Taurid meteor stream.
00:55:07.000and the calculations of the astronomers is that within the next 25 years we are going
00:55:12.000to be going, certainly 30 years, we are going to be going through the lumpy bits of the
00:55:17.000Taurid meteor stream rather than the less lumpy bits and that we are therefore entering
00:55:22.000a time of greater risk regarding the Taurid meteor stream.
00:55:27.000I think it's important to be clear that there's no need for gloom and doom around this. It's
00:55:36.000a matter of choice for our civilisation, what we do with the hazards and risks that our
00:55:47.000We can choose to go on spending billions or trillions of dollars on the mechanisms of warfare.
00:55:53.000We can constantly reinforce our military powers and spend vast amounts of money on that.
00:56:02.000A tiny fraction of what's been spent on the wars over the last 20 years would be all that's needed to sweep the Taurid meteor stream clear and to allow the Earth safety there.
00:56:14.000But it's a question of the priorities.
00:56:16.000When are the decisions made to do that?
00:56:20.000And right now those decisions don't seem to be being made, unfortunately.
00:57:37.000And then they say, and then they say, is there any particular project, you know, that we could put money into which would be really useful?
00:57:44.000And what I always say is put money into the LiDAR service in the Amazon.
00:58:07.000The technology needs to be made available.
00:58:10.000And hopefully one day, Some billionaire will call me up who's actually willing to put his money where his mouth is and invest in these projects.
00:58:19.000Don't start talking about where they're going to put their mouths, Graham.
00:58:21.000It's already a suspicious story about you and some billionaires.
00:58:29.000That's exciting about those two particular projects.
00:58:31.000When I listen to you, one of the things that most excites me is the idea that we as a human species could be embarking on these great cosmic, psychedelic, archaeological journeys, learning new things about ourselves and one another, that we could expand the vision of humanity instead of contracting it all the time.
00:58:48.000I know that you Your current enthusiasm, as you've explained it thus far in this conversation, is because they are simply unexplored territories that may yield stuff.
00:58:55.000But recognising that this is speculation, what is it in particular that excites you about those regions?
00:59:02.000Well, it's precisely because they're unexplored and because the initial exploration that's being done is revealing intriguing evidence.
00:59:14.000One subject that I've explored quite a bit over the years is ancient maps.
00:59:18.000Which were often copied in the Middle Ages and put onto revised versions of those maps.
00:59:26.000And so maps from say the 1400s include information from much older source maps that are now lost.
00:59:35.000And many of those maps show a green and fertile Sahara.
00:59:38.000They show a river channel running through the Sahara where recent surveys have absolutely identified a river channel did used to run during the Ice Age.
00:59:46.000Suggests to me strongly that somebody was mapping the world during the last Ice Age.
00:59:51.000What excites me isn't So much the history of artefacts.
00:59:58.000It's the way that ideas pass down from culture to culture, transfer, transmit.
01:00:03.000And the possibility of a very different kind of civilisation.
01:00:07.000The way that we have steered our civilisation over the past couple of thousand years.
01:00:16.000Yes, there's some positive aspects to it, but there's also some very negative aspects to it.
01:00:19.000But we don't have anywhere else to look for an alternative model.
01:00:23.000And I think the fact that I do regard us as a species with amnesia, that we have forgotten something incredibly important in our own past, and that's part of our disconnection today.
01:00:35.000I think the possibility is encountering a whole system of ideas which is very different from our own, and who knows, maybe even evidence of telepathy and telekinesis, which would completely destructure the existing laws of physics.
01:00:49.000Thank you all of you for your questions.
01:00:52.000Graeme, do you remember when we met that time in the Utah desert at some sort of tented event where I feel like everyone else except me was allowed to take psychedelics?
01:02:44.000Some of the psychedelics now are proving so effective in getting people out of long-term depression.
01:02:48.000What is long, psilocybin in particular, what is long-term depression except a fixed mindset where you circle around again and again and again on the same miseries that are afflicting you?
01:02:59.000And what the psilocybin seems to do, and there's good science on this now, is it just frees the mind up a little bit.
01:03:05.000It allows those tight connections to be loosened up, and you can step out of depression.
01:03:12.000Fantastic results in people with depression, which big pharma drugs are not achieving.
01:03:16.000Seroxat and Prozac are horrible, horrible drugs.
01:03:19.000The SSRIs, they're awful drugs, and I know that because I had an episode of depression, and in that episode I was on Prozac and Seroxat, and they nearly killed me.
01:03:29.000So I'm very intrigued by the way that these demonised substances called psychedelics are proving themselves as effective antidotes to depression, are helping people with post-traumatic stress disorder.
01:03:40.000This is very important work that's being done.
01:03:43.000And it tells us we're not dealing with an addictive class of substances here.
01:03:47.000We're dealing with a class of substances that challenge us.
01:03:49.000Because having our mindset suddenly challenged is a very demanding thing.
01:03:53.000And that's why I say For me the most important issue with psychedelics has been coming face to face with my own baggage.
01:04:00.000That those words that I said to that other person two weeks ago, which I felt were totally justified and he absolutely deserved, actually I was behaving like a piece of shit.
01:04:11.000And I made him feel miserable and I should never have done that.
01:04:14.000And it's made me address issues like my... I have a problem with anger.
01:04:19.000And it's made me address issues like that and try not to do that.
01:04:23.000I may feel it inside but I don't want to manifest it in my behaviour.
01:04:27.000I actually obviously have no option but to concur because I don't want you getting all riled up.
01:04:32.000But also, like, I want to say that even when you say that the class of psychedelics demonstrates no addictive component, in fact I would obviously not dispute that nor be in a position to refute it.
01:04:43.000It's just that I think the addiction takes place within the addict.
01:05:12.000Almost every interview I do, I try and invite like you, Joe Rogan, I'm always sort of subtly trying to gabble matte, trying to essentially get an inventory of people that say, I can take academics now so that I can show people in my 12-step recovery, look, these people have said I can take drugs and the people in 12-step recovery go, no, because you ruin your life like you've ruined ours.
01:05:34.000So I think it's an ongoing conversation.
01:05:36.000My advice to anybody To hear this on Censored, watch on Rumble.
01:05:58.000And, you know, psychedelics and ceremony and an ongoing acknowledgement of the sacred is sort of part, is part of that, a significant and crucial part of that.
01:06:08.000I'm so glad that we got to have this conversation and I'm very glad too Graham that we got to have it in front of a live audience so that you could feel some of the appreciation and love and respect that people have for you for your work and that when you're enduring the attacks and the criticism feeling all riled up and angry being a racist in a mixed-race family it must be confusing That you know that people really respect and revere your work and people love you.
01:06:36.000For the room, round of applause for Graham Hancock, please, everyone.
01:07:18.000Where you'll meet Quetzalcoatl, who will show you that in the forbidden realm of the hieroglyphs, there's a ticket available to you.
01:07:25.000As well as all of Graham's fantastic writing.
01:07:29.000Join us on the show next week when I'll be speaking to Matt Taibbi, Callie Means, and Crystal Ball, among others.
01:07:34.000If you want to see my stand-up special, Brandemic, where I talk about the kind of subjects we've been talking about today in a humorous setting, you get it free if you're a member of Locals, which you can join one click away.