Stay Free - Russel Brand - December 12, 2023


Here’s the News: Was Dave Chappelle Right About Trump?


Episode Stats

Length

26 minutes

Words per Minute

200.51637

Word Count

5,307

Sentence Count

327

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

13


Summary

In this episode, Russell Brand takes a deep dive into why Donald Trump is so popular with the public, and why the establishment is failing to deal with it. He speaks to Martin Goury, who has written a new book, The Revolt of the Public, about Trump's rise to the top of the polls, and what it really means to be a populist and a disruptor. He also takes a look at the rise of independent media, and the role of the internet in shaping the way we think about politics, and how it can be used to create a world where the old elites are dying, and new elites haven t been born yet to take their places. Russell Brand is an American comedian, actor, writer, and podcaster. He is a regular contributor to the New York Times, CNN, CBS, and NPR, and is one of the few people in the world to hold a PhD in American politics. His work has been widely acclaimed, and he is a frequent contributor to publications like The Daily Beast, The Huffington Post, and Rolling Stone. He has also been featured in The New Republic, The Daily Caller, and The Guardian, among many other publications. He is the author of several books, including The People s Guide to the Trump Era, and has been featured on CNN, NPR, The Weekly Standard, and many other media outlets, including Playboy, The Hollywood Reporter, The Hill, The New York Magazine, and Playboy, among others. Russell Brand explains why he thinks Donald Trump s rise to power is a good thing. and why he should be re-elected to the White House. Stay free with Russell Brand should be the next President. Stay free, and stay free, stay free with the truth, and don t care what people think about Donald Trump and much more! Stay Free, . - Russell Brand Thank you for listening to this episode of Awakenings Wondering What's Good, WTF? Subscribe to our new podcast? Subscribe to Awakening Wonders? Subscribe on Podulters Anonymous? Subscribe on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on iTunes Learn more about Russell Brand's new podcast, Like, Share, Share and Retweet this Podcasts on Insta-Friendship, and Subscribe on Instapod, and subscribe to our podcast, or share it on your favourite podcasting platform, wherever else you re listening to the latest episode of AWALTERING WORD?


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello there you Awakening Wonders on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you download your podcasts.
00:00:05.000 We really appreciate you, our listeners, and want to bring you more content.
00:00:08.000 We will be delivering a podcast every day, seven days a week, every single day.
00:00:13.000 You'll get a detailed breakdown of current topics that the mainstream media should be covering, but if they are covering, they're amplifying establishment messages and not telling you the truth.
00:00:23.000 Once a week, we bring you in-depth conversations with guests like Jordan Peterson, RFK Jr., Sam Harris, Vandana Shiva, Gabor Maté, and many more.
00:00:31.000 Now enjoy this episode of Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:00:34.000 Remember, there's an episode every single day to educate and elevate our consciousness together.
00:00:40.000 Stay free and enjoy the episode.
00:00:42.000 Hello there you awakening wonders, thanks for joining us on our voyage to truth and
00:00:55.000 A voyage where hopefully people from across the political spectrum and across the world with a variety of political views can come together to look at how the establishment is beginning to fall apart and eat itself.
00:01:04.000 I think significant in this new dynamic is the emergence of independent media.
00:01:09.000 For example, look at Vivek Ramaswamy's performance at the Republican Party primaries.
00:01:13.000 Someone that says January 6th was a conspiracy, maybe even 9-11 was a conspiracy.
00:01:18.000 Conversation that even Two to five years ago existed on the margins of the internet would be conversations that you'd have to go to Alex Jones for.
00:01:26.000 I believe that independent media has meant that conversations talking points from the periphery have entered into the center and the establishment cannot Deal with it.
00:01:35.000 Donald Trump epitomises this trend more than anybody.
00:01:38.000 I know some of you absolutely love Donald Trump and think he's the solution to America's problems.
00:01:42.000 There will of course be people that think that Trump is a populist and a demagogue.
00:01:45.000 So what is it really that Donald Trump is doing to the establishment and who better to turn to than the writer of the book The Revolt of the Public, Martin Goury, who ahead of everyone said the arguments of left and right are collapsing, The communications miracle means that politics is going to change forever.
00:02:00.000 The old elites are dying and new elites haven't been born yet to take their places.
00:02:04.000 This is a time of chaos.
00:02:06.000 Mindgurry was ahead of the curve.
00:02:08.000 Believe me, he wrote this book way, way before other people were talking about this stuff.
00:02:11.000 And he's written a new article about Donald Trump and the hysteria in the neoliberal establishment.
00:02:17.000 We want to look at the rise of populism across the world.
00:02:19.000 We want to look at the rise of independent media.
00:02:21.000 We want to look at the situation where someone like Conor McGregor could stand for president in Ireland.
00:02:26.000 We are looking at a world where the establishment can no longer maintain control over the minds of the public.
00:02:32.000 The more Donald Trump is indicted, the more popular he gets.
00:02:36.000 People hate the establishment so much That we are going to see resurgent populist movements and figures across the world.
00:02:42.000 It's been happening probably since 2008, but it's reaching a critical tipping point now.
00:02:47.000 And extraordinarily, Donald Trump is still at the forefront of it.
00:02:51.000 Firstly, let's have a look at the legacy media hysterically claiming that Trump is like Hitler, Trump is like Putin, Trump is like Mussolini, Trump is like Mao.
00:02:58.000 He will exile people, he will execute people.
00:03:00.000 And is there a real argument for that?
00:03:02.000 And if there isn't a real argument, why are they doing it.
00:03:05.000 Overnight during a tape town hall in Iowa, former President Trump mocking questions about
00:03:10.000 turning the presidency into a dictatorship.
00:03:12.000 He says, you're not going to be a dictator, are you?
00:03:14.000 I said, no, no, no.
00:03:16.000 Other than day one, we're closing the border and we're drilling, drilling, drilling.
00:03:20.000 After that, I'm not a dictator.
00:03:22.000 The Biden campaign quick to respond, writing in a statement, quote.
00:03:26.000 Donald Trump is joking, he's mucking around, he's personable.
00:03:28.000 what he will do if he's reelected. And tonight, he said he will be a dictator on day one.
00:03:32.000 That in a sense tells you what the entire problem is.
00:03:36.000 Donald Trump is joking. He's mucking around. He's personable. The
00:03:40.000 Biden Harris administration is pious, and they're at a loss and
00:03:44.000 perhaps more significant than their piety and their inability
00:03:47.000 to communicate effectively with the public that they have left
00:03:50.000 behind and they have abandoned is the fact that it is their policy is their lack of regard for ordinary Americans is
00:03:55.000 the fact that for a long time now many of us have suspected
00:03:58.000 that the political class He said, I know the system is rigged, because I use it.
00:04:01.000 but for the corporate interest to essentially make large donations,
00:04:05.000 who they own stocks and shares in, who lobby them in Congress.
00:04:07.000 People have worked out what the game is now and rhetoric like that doesn't work.
00:04:12.000 Someone like Donald Trump has been, and I'm pretty late to this party,
00:04:15.000 refreshing because as Dave Chappelle first pointed out, He said, "I know the system is rigged because I use it."
00:04:22.000 I said, "God damn!"
00:04:25.000 And then he said, "If you want me to pay my taxes, then change the tax code."
00:04:31.000 But I know you won't, because your friends and your donors enjoy the same tax breaks that I do.
00:04:36.000 Bill Burr also hit the nail on the head when he says that liberal hysteria is continuing to fuel the Trump phenomena.
00:04:42.000 Liberals are so f***ing stupid the way that they handle Trump.
00:04:46.000 What do you mean?
00:04:47.000 You should shut up!
00:04:48.000 You think he'd go away?
00:04:49.000 You know what I think he was?
00:04:50.000 I think he was a one-hit wonder.
00:04:51.000 Uh-huh.
00:04:52.000 Right?
00:04:52.000 He wrote the twist.
00:04:53.000 Uh-huh.
00:04:53.000 And then that was it.
00:04:54.000 He was on the casino circuit.
00:04:56.000 And then you idiot liberals wrote him twist again when you indicted him.
00:05:00.000 And now he's a martyr.
00:05:01.000 And now he's got the peppermint twist.
00:05:03.000 He's coming back, Jimmy!
00:05:04.000 He's coming back!
00:05:05.000 It's going to be great for In addition to the fact, and I would say this is an important addition, that they are unwilling to alter their policies that ultimately allow them to service elite interests rather than democratically serve ordinary Americans.
00:05:19.000 We all know now that the Democrat Party works for the military-industrial complex, works for Big Pharma, In cahoots with legacy media, that the deep state is penetrating social media, that they are unable to go, do you know what?
00:05:30.000 You'll be better off if you voted for our party because we will ensure investment in American infrastructure, less foreign wars, we'll curtail corruption in Congress, we'll ban policies of donation and lobbying, because they will never do that.
00:05:41.000 As you can see within the Democrat Party establishment, Bernie Sanders, no thank you.
00:05:45.000 What we're witnessing now is the end, I believe, of a certain type of democracy.
00:05:49.000 We are moving towards authoritarianism.
00:05:51.000 But not the kind of populist demagoguery that they believe Trump represents, but a kind of autocratic, technocratic, digital, technological dictatorship where the establishment claims that it's protecting you and the vulnerable, but ultimately it is restricting freedom.
00:06:05.000 And I could point to many, many surveillance laws, like the laws that were introduced after 9-11 but haven't been rescinded, and many, many new censorship laws, not only in the United States but across the world, You've said we are sort of sleepwalking into dictatorship in the United States.
00:06:18.000 Dictatorship.
00:06:19.000 interests that are inaccessible to ordinary democratic process.
00:06:22.000 That's the real problem, I believe.
00:06:23.000 You've said we're sort of sleepwalking into dictatorship in the United States.
00:06:28.000 Dictatorship. Is that what we would have if we reelect Donald Trump?
00:06:33.000 I think it's a very, very real threat and concern.
00:06:37.000 And I don't say any of that lightly.
00:06:38.000 You do sound it quite lightly, because you can't really trust Liz Cheney unless she were willing to address the institutional and systemic abuses of power that currently exist, or to spend five minutes talking about how her father generated the conditions for the Iraq War and exploited it personally, financially.
00:06:54.000 How can you trust Liz Cheney until she's offered a complete mea culpa for the Cheney family on that subject?
00:06:58.000 Dictatorship in the United States.
00:07:01.000 That is a strong warning.
00:07:03.000 To many, that word, that concept, that idea evokes something that is viewed as external to the US.
00:07:10.000 Look though, look at these dictators.
00:07:12.000 Mussolini, Mao.
00:07:14.000 And I actually think that this is a legitimate point.
00:07:17.000 We do think of dictatorships as belonging to the last century.
00:07:20.000 We do think of them as being militarized.
00:07:22.000 I think we're unable to conceive of what a global bureaucratic technological dictatorship might look like.
00:07:28.000 Although we shouldn't struggle because we've just been through a piloting program, I believe, in the last three years where the legitimization of authoritative measures was experimentally trialed.
00:07:38.000 I don't mean that in a conspiracy theory way, even if you just say the best thing to do in the event of a pandemic is to lock everyone in their The best thing to do in the event of a pandemic is to get everyone to carry digital passports.
00:07:47.000 The best thing to do in the event of a pandemic is to shut down all oppositional discourse and close down all dissenting voices.
00:07:54.000 What that shows you is what dictatorship will look like now.
00:07:57.000 It's not going to be like jackboots and badges and medallions and flags.
00:08:01.000 It's just going to be a gentle squeezing of your rights.
00:08:05.000 15 minutes it is.
00:08:06.000 No traveling.
00:08:06.000 Donald Trump, I don't think, has a vision for old school Mussolini and Mao style dictatorship.
00:08:11.000 But I think the neoliberal establishment Of leaders somewhere else, or in some other time, some other era.
00:08:14.000 assert control and regulate whether it's the result of climate change or pandemics or protecting
00:08:19.000 people or censoring free speech. That is what dictatorship is. Let me know in the chat what
00:08:23.000 you think is the biggest threat to democracy right now, Trump or this kind of neoliberalist
00:08:27.000 centralist authoritarianism that we've all seen in the last few years. Of leaders somewhere else
00:08:32.000 or in some other time, some other era. That habit of thinking is wrong. It's why there are entire
00:08:40.000 books about how it can quote "happen here".
00:08:43.000 One thing about Mussolini is you can't take your eyes off him.
00:08:45.000 He's such a compelling figure.
00:08:47.000 If he told me to vote for him, I would.
00:08:48.000 Now, hmm.
00:08:49.000 To push Americans to understand the threat and the way both democracies and dictatorships operate.
00:08:56.000 It's why historians are now comparing It's weird that they're just rotating those... Mussolini mouth, Mussolini mouth, Mussolini mouth, it's Trump now!
00:09:04.000 It's why historians are now comparing what Donald Trump is saying in public on the campaign trail to dictators like Mussolini when he dehumanizes our fellow citizens in this country as, quote, vermin.
00:09:17.000 But hysterical rhetoric is a two-way street and hysterical rhetoric is literally taking place in this very news segment.
00:09:23.000 He's a bit like Mussolini.
00:09:25.000 He's a bit like Mao.
00:09:26.000 He used the word vermin.
00:09:27.000 Look at the words they use!
00:09:28.000 Deprogramming, basket of deplorables, MAGA, extremist.
00:09:32.000 January 6th was an insurrection when we now know that it was infiltrated by all sorts of deep state agencies and that there were certainly provocative events indeed.
00:09:40.000 Vivek Ramaswamy is now using independent media rhetoric able to say that on a wide stage, on a big platform.
00:09:48.000 And that kind of rhetoric is appealing because it's true.
00:09:51.000 Not for any other reason, because now the mainstream discourse can't be managed in the way that it used to be.
00:09:57.000 You can't say the Ukraine war is good, shut up, just get on with it.
00:10:00.000 You now have to face a barrage of questions, which means that the process of controlling a population is impeded.
00:10:05.000 You can't just say we want more and more tax dollars for that war, there's going to be boots on the ground.
00:10:09.000 There are too many opportunities for oppositionism.
00:10:12.000 And Cheney, who staked her career on this, is saying this threat is now here.
00:10:18.000 You never ever hear them say, although we should have been a bit more gentle when we said that people that like Trump are MAGA extremists, we probably overdid it when people didn't want to get vaccinated and we shamed them and said they shouldn't get hospital treatment.
00:10:35.000 The media, legacy media in particular, are prone to hysterical discourse on both sides.
00:10:39.000 They are hysterical about Trump and then condemning him for grandiose rhetoric.
00:10:45.000 So unless they're able to acknowledge that they are participating in that polemicism, you can't take them seriously and you certainly can't trust them.
00:10:52.000 Like Mussolini or Mao.
00:10:53.000 That if he does win next year, based on everything she's learned, and remember the high level of the Republican Party that she reached, Is it me or does the future feel more insecure and uncertain?
00:11:04.000 Wars, pandemics, lies, trickery.
00:11:07.000 My cats keep having kittens.
00:11:08.000 The last one's personal.
00:11:09.000 For those who are in the United States, there is a way to secure your hard-earned nest egg.
00:11:15.000 American Heart for Gold make it easy to protect your savings and retirement accounts with physical gold and silver.
00:11:21.000 With one phone call, they can have physical gold and silver delivered right to your door or inside a qualifying retirement account like your IRA or 401k.
00:11:30.000 American Hartford Gold is the highest-rated firm in the U.S.
00:11:33.000 with an A-plus rating from the BBB and thousands of satisfied clients.
00:11:37.000 Right now, they will give you up to $5,000 of free silver on your first qualifying order.
00:11:43.000 This offer is only for U.S.
00:11:45.000 customers.
00:11:47.000 866-505-8315.
00:11:49.000 That's 866-505-8315.
00:11:52.000 Or simply text BRAND to 99-88-99.
00:11:57.000 Get up to $5,000 of silver and protect your future in this crazy, crazy world with some solid, precious metals literally made in stars.
00:12:05.000 She is now certain, based on the evidence, he would try to then stay in power forever.
00:12:13.000 One of the problems with the idea of saying he's got to stay in power forever is forever is quite a long time and Donald Trump is relatively elderly.
00:12:20.000 It's like, at worst, got to be about 10 years.
00:12:23.000 Do you believe if Donald Trump were elected next year that he would try to stay in office beyond a second term?
00:12:30.000 That he would never leave office?
00:12:31.000 There's no question.
00:12:32.000 Never leave office.
00:12:33.000 They're actually defying the laws of physics.
00:12:35.000 So they're comparing him to Mussolini and Mao and Putin and Hitler and sort of Jesus.
00:12:41.000 Like he's not gonna die.
00:12:42.000 He lives forever.
00:12:43.000 He will continue to abide like literal Mephistopheles.
00:12:47.000 But that is hysterical when you're actually building miracles into your propaganda campaign.
00:12:53.000 He could have an army of 5,000 MAGA extremists.
00:12:56.000 He could feed them every day just using two fish and loaves, I believe.
00:13:01.000 You're making him sound too much like Jesus.
00:13:03.000 I know, that's the nickname we give him.
00:13:04.000 You realize Jesus is pretty popular.
00:13:06.000 Goddammit, we've done it again!
00:13:07.000 Why don't we bomb Iraq and give all of the energy deals to Hallie Burton?
00:13:11.000 That's my girl!
00:13:12.000 I firmly believe, knowing Donald Trump, that if you said to Donald Trump, Mr. Trump, in order to become Putin, in order to stay in office forever, in order to loot this country, you have to do X. He is capable of doing wherever your mind can take you for X. A thousand percent.
00:13:27.000 I mean, that's extreme!
00:13:28.000 Wherever your mind can take you, the limits of your imagination, wherever you can imagine, Trump is capable of doing that.
00:13:35.000 And the response?
00:13:36.000 A thousand percent.
00:13:37.000 You can't get a thousand percent.
00:13:39.000 We all know that.
00:13:40.000 Michael Cohen said it.
00:13:40.000 Absolutely.
00:13:41.000 You know, he is an autocrat in his mind.
00:13:43.000 He wants to be president.
00:13:44.000 I want to stop using the word fascist.
00:13:46.000 Yeah, he's a fascist.
00:13:47.000 What kind of pre-show conversation do you think they have before they do this?
00:13:50.000 Is it like, let's just say the maddest, wildest things we can about Donald Trump.
00:13:55.000 Whatever you can imagine, he'll do that.
00:13:58.000 A thousand percent.
00:13:59.000 Yeah, he's a fascist.
00:13:59.000 He's a fascist.
00:14:00.000 Worse than Hitler.
00:14:01.000 Well, in a way, yeah.
00:14:02.000 I mean, like, there's nothing that I don't know if he's as bad as that.
00:14:04.000 And of course, you have to recognize that people are pretty disenchanted with contemporary politics anyway,
00:14:09.000 because of the many pledges Biden made on the campaign trial and then didn't fulfill.
00:14:12.000 And of course, Barack Obama, we all felt very optimistic about him,
00:14:15.000 and then he sort of yielded to the banks after the financial crash.
00:14:18.000 I think people feel generally now, like maybe this is a time where America doesn't have to have that international
00:14:22.000 role, getting engaged in wars and all that kind of stuff.
00:14:24.000 Perhaps this is a time where we have to...
00:14:25.000 Or we could say that Trump's like an evil Jesus.
00:14:27.000 Yeah!
00:14:27.000 Hitler Jesus?
00:14:27.000 Hitler Jesus!
00:14:27.000 as a species and make some real changes and not changes that always seem to be beneficial to the
00:14:32.000 elites and punitive to ordinary people but maybe the other way around maybe we have to have a
00:14:35.000 radical look at America and giving people as much power as possible decentralized power you know
00:14:39.000 use the federalism that America was built upon to empower individual states yeah we could do that
00:14:43.000 or we could say that Trump's like an evil Jesus Hitler Jesus yeah Hitler Jesus that's right
00:14:47.000 the tendencies many many tendencies like Adolf Hitler yeah I said it throw me off the air okay
00:14:54.000 so whether you like Trump or you don't like Trump the fact is he has a form of communication that
00:14:59.000 many people like and I can understand why he's He's amusing, he has already been president and he did leave office, he's complained about it, but the Democrats complained about it when they left office as well.
00:15:07.000 Russia gay, P-gay, all of that stuff.
00:15:09.000 So what's Trump doing that's so bad?
00:15:11.000 And why are the neoliberal establishment media condemning Trump with such fierce rhetoric and not acknowledging their own failings?
00:15:17.000 This is an article by Martin Goury who probably more than any author I think about when I'm trying to understand the dynamics of contemporary politics and how it relates to technology and communications as opposed to ideology and how those things are in a sense inextricably linked.
00:15:30.000 Let's get into it.
00:15:31.000 A giant landfill of words has been dumped out on the subject of Donald Trump.
00:15:35.000 I hate to add to the pile but I feel I must.
00:15:37.000 Unlike most participants in this industrial disaster though, I have no wish to either praise Trump or to bury him.
00:15:43.000 What I want is clarity.
00:15:44.000 The word most often associated with Trump is authoritarian.
00:15:48.000 From the New York Times, Atlantic and Economist to The Guardian, Bantifair and Politico, We are told with ritual repetition that Trump is the second coming of Hitler or Mussolini, an aspiring dictator eager to herd his opponents into the great American gulag.
00:16:03.000 That, I feel, is in order to not address domestic issues within their own organisations, within our own institutions and systems, they are just amplifying the external threat, in this case Donald Trump, rather than having a reckoning about the state of democracy, the economic crisis, the energy crisis, the increasing demand for censorship, All of these things are legitimized and certainly of secondary importance to the emergency of some sort of, well, Antichrist.
00:16:28.000 He's being portrayed as a kind of Antichrist, which is an oddly religious idea for a materialist and secular culture.
00:16:34.000 Naturally, people panic.
00:16:36.000 I want to calm them down.
00:16:39.000 He's writing this like an adult.
00:16:41.000 Look, calm down.
00:16:42.000 You're being actually a bit stupid.
00:16:43.000 He's not Hitler.
00:16:44.000 He's not going to live forever.
00:16:45.000 He's old.
00:16:46.000 Martin Gurry's operating on a higher level than the rest of us.
00:16:49.000 Using as few words as possible, I'm going to show that the combination of Trump and authoritarianism is an impossibility.
00:16:54.000 So you'll be able to just shut up about that.
00:16:56.000 What's an authoritarian anyway?
00:16:58.000 The word is squishy.
00:16:59.000 It can mean someone who likes to have his own way or someone who compels you to do things his way.
00:17:03.000 Since we're dealing with extreme emotions, I'm going with a hardline definition.
00:17:07.000 An authoritarian, let's say, is an actual or would-be dictator.
00:17:11.000 Right, thanks Martin.
00:17:13.000 If you expect to become an authoritarian, you have to wield absolute control over a key institution of government, such as the military, like Franco, Perón or Pinochet, or a mass movement with a paramilitary wing, like Lenin, Mussolini and Mao.
00:17:26.000 Right.
00:17:27.000 That's a fact, isn't it?
00:17:28.000 If you haven't got a paramilitary wing or an army, you can't achieve the kind of coercion that is necessary.
00:17:34.000 I would say the kind of dictatorship we live in is no longer using that modality, but is instead about cultural and social and psychological conditioning that's so immersive that people don't feel free.
00:17:44.000 That we're so atomised and despairing and trapped in consumerism that we're controlled in a completely novel way.
00:17:49.000 That the idea that someone with a paramilitary force is going to, like, kick off.
00:17:53.000 I don't sort of feel that that's going to happen.
00:17:55.000 I'm really glad that Martin Guri's starting to relax me on that front.
00:17:58.000 Neither condition applies to Trump. Every federal institution is set ferociously against him.
00:18:03.000 What would happen if Trump ordered the FBI or the 101st Airborne Division to start shooting Democrats?
00:18:09.000 Homeric laughter would happen.
00:18:11.000 And if Trump is training a militia somewhere off the 18th hole at Mar-a-Lago,
00:18:14.000 not even the Times has heard about it.
00:18:16.000 [laughs]
00:18:17.000 That's what you'd have to be doing when you see him go off in his golf bug in that, listening to James.
00:18:21.000 It's a man's world!
00:18:22.000 Okay guys, we're gonna need some explosive devices.
00:18:25.000 He's not doing that, is he?
00:18:26.000 He's not doing that.
00:18:27.000 The conservative establishment has on occasion co-opted an authoritarian as a bulwark against the left.
00:18:33.000 This was Hitler's bridge to power.
00:18:35.000 But the Republican and Conservative elites here ran shrieking for the door the moment Trump won the nomination in 2016.
00:18:41.000 They coined the term, Never Trumper.
00:18:43.000 When it comes to the presidency, they prefer the entire population of the United States ahead of the evil orange man.
00:18:49.000 What kind of person becomes an authoritarian?
00:18:52.000 Well, it may look like fun, but authoritarianism is really hard work.
00:18:57.000 It's exhausting!
00:18:58.000 Imagine like Mao and Stalin and Hitler, though they do say Hitler needs to get up late, don't they?
00:19:02.000 It must be absolutely knackering to be an authoritarian.
00:19:05.000 Trump's not on that tip at all, is he?
00:19:07.000 You need to be in the prime of life in your 30s or 40s.
00:19:11.000 Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, Mao, Castro.
00:19:14.000 Very rarely an exceptional person, such as Caesar, is granted literal dictatorship.
00:19:19.000 The Romans invented the whole idea in his early 50s.
00:19:22.000 In a clear case of ageism, however, no septuagenarian has ever been offered the job.
00:19:28.000 The authoritarian personality favours clever manipulations and conspiracies.
00:19:32.000 Best in class was Stalin, who held the purely administrative job of first party secretary, but seized total power by seeding loyalists everywhere.
00:19:40.000 Trump, who is a builder of buildings, a task with a beginning and an end, can scarcely think ahead from breakfast to lunch.
00:19:50.000 This is a life playing out of the short attention span theatre.
00:19:53.000 I think what Martin Gurry is offering us is an alternative lens to view Trump as a character and the reasons why Trump might be popular, which I would offer is Trump popular because the alternative is so dismal and he doesn't actually seem like a dictator.
00:20:07.000 It just seems like if you're not going to alter the conditions that led to Trump, because those are the conditions of our institutionalized and corrupt democracies, you have to escalate using hysteria and rhetoric, the language that condemns Trump.
00:20:19.000 And that's clearly what's happening, isn't it?
00:20:20.000 Let me know in the chat.
00:20:21.000 Still, I know what some political depressives will be thinking, and they're wrong.
00:20:25.000 January 6th was not an insurgency aiming to install Trump as Chief Authoritarian.
00:20:30.000 In an insurgency, people with guns shoot at each other and lots of them die.
00:20:34.000 In the firefight to convert Augusto Pinochet into El Supremo, 3,000 Chileans died.
00:20:39.000 That's an insurgency.
00:20:40.000 On January 6th, Wow.
00:20:42.000 So in all of the distance between what happened that day and how it's been reported, I think is the real problem.
00:20:46.000 The real problem is not that there was an insurrection on January the 6th or that Trump is like Hitler.
00:20:50.000 There's no such thing as an unarmed insurgency.
00:20:53.000 Wow.
00:20:54.000 So in all of the distance between what happened that day and how it's been reported, I think
00:20:59.000 is the real problem.
00:21:01.000 The real problem is not that there was an insurrection on January the 6th or that Trump
00:21:05.000 is like Hitler.
00:21:06.000 The real problem is that protests have to be amplified in order to shut down dissent
00:21:11.000 and political opponents who are idiosyncratic and unusual have to be amplified into total
00:21:16.000 malfeasance in order to preserve institutional corruption, deep institutional corruption
00:21:22.000 that precedes Biden but will carry on with Biden, that preceded Obama but continued with
00:21:26.000 Obama, that was present and prevalent in the W. Bush era and has probably been going on
00:21:30.000 for quite a while.
00:21:31.000 Maybe it started with Reagan, perhaps it's always been present, Some of the financial changes that took place under Clinton, people say, are hugely significant in losing the ability to regulate the financial industry.
00:21:41.000 Maybe it was the New Deal was the last time there was good faith governance of America.
00:21:46.000 I don't know enough about your country's politics to say, but what seems clear is that at some point there was a sort of a slide towards centralised authoritarianism and technocracy within American government.
00:21:56.000 It became corrupt and totally co-opted by financial interests.
00:22:00.000 And they're not willing to change that, because why would they?
00:22:02.000 And so in order to just preserve it, they'll say anything to keep it together.
00:22:06.000 At this point even, the problem's gone beyond Trump, because now you have populists like Bobby Kennedy and Vivek Ramaswamy, and they can't be kept down forever.
00:22:14.000 Like now, what, Bobby Kennedy?
00:22:15.000 Ah, vaccines!
00:22:16.000 Alright, Vivek Ramaswamy, also a Nazi!
00:22:19.000 What else can I say to reassure the fretful?
00:22:21.000 I like Martin Gurry's tone, it's like a game he's doing, like, you idiots, you know this isn't a dictatorship, shut up.
00:22:27.000 Talking to them like they're children.
00:22:28.000 Shall we talk about the Trump rhetoric?
00:22:30.000 To borrow a phrase from Hillary Clinton, Trump should be sent to a re-education camp run by Miss Manners, no question about it.
00:22:36.000 But we're talking about authoritarianism here.
00:22:38.000 Now, both as a kid in Cuba and in my professional life, I had the pleasure of sitting through entire Fidel Castro speeches.
00:22:44.000 I mean, I served freedom by deciphering every cough and mumble that bearded authoritarian could utter in a four-hour tirade.
00:22:50.000 And say what you will about Trump's rhetoric, you can be sure of this.
00:22:53.000 He's no Fidel Castro.
00:22:55.000 Martin Goury is what you might call an old-school advocate for liberal democracy.
00:23:00.000 He is not a communist and he is not a populist.
00:23:03.000 I think he's a moderate.
00:23:04.000 And that's what makes him, I think, such a valuable contribution to our conversation.
00:23:08.000 You won't hurt Trump by calling him an authoritarian.
00:23:11.000 He's like one of those bull elephant seals covered with hide, inches thick and full of scars.
00:23:15.000 Authoritarianism won't even reach his sensory apparatus.
00:23:19.000 It's just like something getting murmured outside of a space helmet.
00:23:23.000 Tens of millions of Americans voted for the man.
00:23:25.000 If you insist that Trump is an authoritarian, if you continue to maintain that he's the greatest threat ever to our democracy, then you're portraying these voters as goose-stepping bigots, and you know full well that they're not.
00:23:35.000 They're your family, friends, and neighbours.
00:23:38.000 People in those categories may not be as reliably helpful as, say, a good dog, but only rarely are they involved in overthrowing constitutional norms.
00:23:46.000 What he's pointing out is the hysterical language became so deracinated, uprooted and untethered from reality that we're invited to accept that 71 million people had gone crazy.
00:23:56.000 And I think all sides of these current political conversations have to acknowledge that it's no longer a left versus right argument that we're having, but a deep suspicion of the way that our institutions are operating.
00:24:07.000 With one side saying, if it was to fall in the hands of Trump, he'll ruin it forever.
00:24:10.000 The other side saying, But things are already ruinous for us.
00:24:13.000 We feel the contempt of elites in our everyday lives.
00:24:17.000 The only solution, it seems to me, is already stitched into the fabric of American political life.
00:24:17.000 We are unsatisfied.
00:24:22.000 Decentralised power, as little state interventionism as possible.
00:24:26.000 States run in accordance with the democratic will of the people within that state or boroughs within that state.
00:24:32.000 Make democracy as close to the people affected by it as possible.
00:24:35.000 That is the solution and I think that that's what's being resisted here.
00:24:38.000 And I actually think that what Trump is doing, Trump is a wrecking ball for the old order and they don't want to change because they're corrupt.
00:24:44.000 So relax.
00:24:45.000 Trump is too old, too isolated, and too ADD to have a shot at dictatorship.
00:24:49.000 And if he tried, the result would be comedy rather than tyranny.
00:24:52.000 You still want to join the ranks of the anti-Trump resistance?
00:24:54.000 Hey, that's wonderful.
00:24:55.000 You want to do battle against authoritarianism?
00:24:57.000 I'm there with you.
00:24:58.000 Just don't mix up the two.
00:25:00.000 I promise it will make you clearer of mind and healthier of body.
00:25:03.000 And it will free us to begin to call our politicians by those vile names that actually fit.
00:25:07.000 So I think what Martin Goury has offered us there is an assessment that is reasonable.
00:25:10.000 He's clearly a discerning person and elsewhere has written that what the real problem is is that our models of governance, our models of media, our models of political funding, our models of censorship are now inept and inadequate for the way that technology has changed the world, specifically the internet.
00:25:25.000 And the ability for us all to instantaneously communicate.
00:25:27.000 I think independent media is a great thing.
00:25:29.000 I think it's changed the political landscape.
00:25:31.000 There's no question that a certain type of populism has re-emerged, but we're not at the end of the road.
00:25:36.000 New things might emerge, and I hope what those new things might be are decentralised social movements closer to the type of tribalism, and I don't mean tribalism as in oppositionalism, I mean local government, localisation, that we evolved with for many, many thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even longer, of years, And now people are trying to corral us together in groups of 300 million or 1.5 billion or 60 million and expecting us to have the same culture, the same ideas and censuring us according to their own whims that seem to be more about preserving their own power rather than, as they continually claim, protecting the vulnerable.
00:26:09.000 And of course populist nationalist figures are cropping up all over the world because deep down inside us we don't trust the government anymore.
00:26:16.000 We're right not to.
00:26:17.000 We don't trust the legacy media anymore.
00:26:18.000 We're right not to.
00:26:19.000 And no one's giving us any reasonable alternative.
00:26:22.000 So we'll take whatever alternative we can, particularly if they're funny and good at communicating in public.
00:26:27.000 But that's just what I think.