In this episode, I share a conversation I had with Vandana Shiva. She is a plant-based organic farmer, activist, writer, and eco-activist who has dedicated her life to understanding why our current food and farming system is destroying the earth and destroying our health. In this conversation, we talk about how Big Food received $400 billion in subsidies to make highly processed food look cheaper, the true power of BlackRock and Vanguard, and how the World Bank and IMF are linked and how they really work. Let me know what you think in the comments section below! You're going to love this conversation. I'm so pleased and thrilled that she came again. I know you'll love this chat, and I can't wait to share it with the community. I hope you do too! - Russell Brand Stay Free, Woke Wonderings - Veena Shavanshara Thank you so much for joining me for Stay Free with Russell Brand today. I can t wait to do it again next year. -Vandana Shiva My name is Vandana Shiva and I am so pleased to have her as a guest on the show. I m so excited to share her wisdom and knowledge with you. I hope that you enjoy it and that you do as much as I enjoyed it. Love, Russell Brand - Stay Free - Veeda Brand - Thank you, Veenas Shavara, Vardana Shiva, Veedha, Vandana Shave Vardha, Thank you Veenah, Vanderha, Vandana, Veeee, Vadna Shiva, I love you, thank you, I appreciate you, bye bye bye Bye Bye, bye, bye Bye, Bye Bye Bye bye, Bye, Love, bye! Love ya, Love ya. - - P.S. - Namaste, P.B. & P.A. - R.V. & Gita, Gajendranjee, - Shesh Vinandi, Gautam, Pravya, Gaviravarajan, Prakash, Ganesha, Gauravar, Virdha, Bhagavar & Gajeevara, Gauri, Prahadhar, Prita, Parshuravarai, Vellam, Rachit, etc, etc., etc.
00:01:00.000In this video, you're going to see the future.
00:01:12.000Hello there you Awakening Wonders, thanks for joining me for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:01:16.000Today I want to share with you a beautiful conversation I had with Vandana Shiva.
00:01:21.000What will astonish you about Vandana Shiva is her ability to confront corruption, her willingness to articulate complex issues, her willingness to confront Head on, the accusation that I know you will have faced, that you're a conspiracy theorist, that you're right-wing, how these smears and slurs are used to censor and control conversation.
00:01:41.000We also talk about how Big Food received $400 billion in subsidies to make highly processed food look cheaper, the true power of BlackRock and Vanguard, and how the World Bank and IMF are linked, and how they really work.
00:01:53.000You're going to love this conversation.
00:01:55.000Let me know what you think in the chat.
00:01:57.000Please welcome to the stage one of my great teachers, the great mother herself, this glorious woman who's peculiarly humble, who's recently given me this amazing gift that's got a great story behind it.
00:02:32.000Would you mind starting off our conversation by explaining to our beautiful, loving community what this gift is and its significance, as you explained it to me?
00:02:43.000Sir, as you know, since 84, I've dedicated my life to understand the puzzles of why our agriculture and food system destroys the earth, destroys farmers, and destroys our health.
00:03:00.000And from 87 onwards, when those who, through chemicals, have created industrial agriculture, talked about owning the seed and patenting the seed through GMOs, I started to save seeds.
00:03:15.000But originally only crop seeds and food seeds and vegetable seeds.
00:03:20.000But in the areas where cotton was growing, an epidemic of suicides of farmers started.
00:03:27.000Within no time, all cotton, 95% of cotton, had become Monsanto's BT cotton, a GMO cotton.
00:03:35.000And these are the areas where 85% of the 400,000 suicides have taken place.
00:03:39.000of the 400,000 suicides have taken place.
00:09:34.000So capital, which was totally a construct, appropriated not just the earth, appropriates spirituality.
00:09:43.000And that's where things started to go wrong.
00:09:46.000And that desexualization also meant no reverence, no limits, no knowledge of living systems.
00:09:55.000And to me, the ecological crisis begins there.
00:09:58.000India was colonized, and in 1780s, Lord Cornwallis wrote that all the land of India belonged to England, all the soil of India belonged to England, and therefore England couldn't collect rents from the peasants who were growing the food, who became landless overnight, and they had to pay half of what they grew as taxes.
00:10:32.000That is the economy that comes from desacralization, that comes from not respecting nature, or respecting the life of others, or respecting their work and their labor, or respecting their sovereignty.
00:10:58.000Because I sometimes fall into the trap of believing, Vandana, that there was a kind of inevitable momentum, almost an inertia that has led us to materialism.
00:11:09.000That it's not the result of conscious choices and political decisions, not the result of declarations that we should separate ourselves from nature, that we should regard nature as a resource, that you have to break the nature between humanity and nature herself.
00:11:25.000It was also, it seemed plain, Vandana, and here is some gentle rain to remind us of our fallibility and of the limitless and abundant power of nature.
00:11:44.000Thank you for being so tolerant and gracious because to remain so joyful and so abundant and so generous in such challenging conditions for me is a demonstration that you have the necessary fortitude that will be required when any change is brought about.
00:11:59.000It will not be easy to change the world.
00:12:03.000It's not easy to recognize that the inner world is the real world and that we must practice there with honor and respect and regard and we must overcome our materialistic models in favor of subtler forces that are sometimes difficult to access.
00:12:16.000Vandana, I felt that in your answer there was embedded within it, or in fact it was quite overt, that part of the process of the management and subjugation of nature involved the subjugation of women.
00:12:29.000If this is so, as you say, how do we begin to heal this wound While honouring both the masculine and feminine, because in our culture there is a lot of opposition.
00:12:39.000I think a lot of males are uncertain about the role of masculinity.
00:12:43.000How can we ensure that the culture war doesn't prevent necessary conversations from taking place?
00:12:49.000How can we celebrate and honour the divine feminine without denigrating masculinity?
00:12:54.000How can we honor both of these forces after you have said that time is regarded as Kali and it was this masculine movement to time and it was about all of this oppression when there seems to be simultaneously a movement to alienate men and women from one another?
00:13:07.000You know, just like the earth and nature was sacred in most indigenous cultures and actually the old research shows that even in Europe The old temples were all goddess temples.
00:14:03.000And the economy was oikos, the economy of the household, maintaining the earth as our home, as well as our local homes, and women and men as equal partners.
00:14:17.000There was no gender conflict in my society, in tribal areas where I go to, you know.
00:14:23.000In so many tribal cultures, the men are doing all the cooking.
00:14:40.000The economy of life, of continuing to survive, was left in the hands of women.
00:14:47.000They're the ones who continue to grow the food, fetch the water, protect the children, the old people, something that's still going on now.
00:14:55.000So how do we overcome this very artificial duality?
00:15:01.000First by realizing that the Divine Feminine is everything living, including in every man.
00:15:07.000So every man should celebrate, I'm the Divine Feminine.
00:15:10.000Who said the Divine Feminine is not in man?
00:15:16.000You know, the birth of masculine time that Bacon talked about was removing the divine feminine and trying to crush it.
00:15:27.000And that is what creates both the violence over the earth and violence in society, but then the emptiness within.
00:15:36.000And that emptiness then is what allows for more violence.
00:15:41.000I believe the femicide that is growing all the time in the world is a result Of an emptiness.
00:15:48.000And that's why we need to go beyond this shallow identity politics.
00:15:54.000Into a deep identity that we are all earth citizens.
00:16:04.000And together, as we waken that divine in us, Of course there are differences, but those differences aren't the overriding determining factors of who we are.
00:16:18.000Who we are, being alive comes as being part of the earth.
00:16:23.000The spirituality comes from both going within, but through that being connected to the larger consciousness.
00:16:37.000Vandana, when you talk about this emptiness, it really resonates with me and I think it resonates with all of us.
00:16:42.000I think we understand what is being said.
00:16:44.000This emptiness, this sense that something is missing, that there is something that has been absented and extracted.
00:16:50.000I speak from the perspective of an addict, where there is unbridled yearning and longing and a sense somehow that the material or external world is going to provide the solutions to this.
00:17:00.000When you speak about the nature of identity, that we can honour individuality and diversity without creating unnecessary conflict, I understand what you are saying and I believe you, I believe you.
00:17:10.000How is it then, Vandana, that over the last three years we have found ourselves fraught with conflict, we have found ourselves to some degree imposed in places of division and isolation?
00:17:26.000Sometimes it feels, as with the example of the establishment of masculine time, that there is some coordination at play when it comes to this divisiveness.
00:17:35.000The power, while opaque, insidious and difficult to track, must be somewhere.
00:17:42.000Somewhere, decisions appear to be being made to turn people against one another, to make people sick because of the food they are eating, to perpetuate cycles of ill health.
00:18:43.000You know, the beautiful group of singers earlier were telling me that they still, in their salary, there's a deduction of a reparation that goes to the old slave owners who have to be paid because they lost their profits of slavery.
00:20:17.000And GATT, the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs, which then became the WTO now, for the trade issue.
00:20:25.000It didn't become an institution because Cuba was put in charge and Cuba said what we need in trade is a correction of the harm of exploitation.
00:20:36.000So there was no acceptance of that till a new recolonization was put in place with the WTO in 1995.
00:20:45.000But these bureaucracies don't do the thinking.
00:20:49.000It's the corporations who want to use it as an instrument that does the thinking.
00:20:55.000So, this I know deeply because I spent a lot of my time on this.
00:21:00.000When Monsanto wanted to own seed, then I started to follow GATT and WTO.
00:21:06.000Monsanto wrote the Intellectual Property Rights Agreement of WTO to define seed as their property, as their invention.
00:21:17.000And that's why I've dedicated my life to saving seeds and keeping seed free.
00:21:22.000And keeping farmers free to have the right to save and exchange seed.
00:21:29.000And you know, for those of you who want to know more about this, do come to Navdanya where we save seeds and we learn how to do all this.
00:21:38.000We do a whole month course of returning to the earth because that's what we have to do.
00:21:43.000And the beauty is returning to the earth is both about a spiritual return home And a material return in an ecological sense, not in a mechanistic sense.
00:21:55.000So, Monsanto wrote the Intellectual Property Agreement, Cargill, who's polluting this river.
00:22:01.000You know, those chicken farms, those chicken farms, ultimately the chicken is owned by Cargill, and their big shares are in all the chicken companies.
00:22:10.000The farmer is just a passive instrument in the hands of these corporations.
00:22:16.000And then the next, how do we make become sick?
00:22:20.000Because the sickness creators became in charge of health and safety.
00:22:24.000There's a treaty in WTO called Sanitary and Phytosanitary Agreement.
00:22:31.000Sure enough to not let you know what it's all about.
00:22:35.000And this was drafted by Pepsi, Coke and Nestle.
00:22:40.000And it was drafted so that all local artisanal food would disappear.
00:22:46.000And they actually have destroyed... India was a very big economy of artisanal food.
00:22:50.000They destroyed all our cold press mills, five million of them.
00:22:54.000Every woman used to make pickle and sell it.
00:23:21.000And then I found that after the 2008 financial crisis, the biggest players are the large investment asset funds, financial asset funds, called BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street.
00:23:53.000But they've allowed it to be accepted that not only will they control corporations, they'll control governments, they'll control our lives.
00:24:00.000And that's where festivals like this are so important.
00:24:14.000You know, like, often what people ask is, what can I do as an individual?
00:24:18.000But when you're talking about the World Bank, and you're talking about IMF, and you're talking about Monsanto, and you're talking about Vanguard and Blackguard, you're also talking about the significance of making pickles and artisan economies.
00:24:28.000Because the thing you can do yourself is the only thing, and it's the necessary thing.
00:24:32.000It's not like, oh no, I can only do these small things.
00:24:36.000That is ultimately and necessarily the answer.
00:24:39.000Not only is it vital because it's the only way to create another economy, but it's also necessary because if each of us does it, I mean, just imagine if this community would go home and say, from today onwards, I will not support the earth-destroying, health-destroying, farmer-destroying food economy.
00:25:08.000I will support the economy of ecological agriculture, local farms, and healthy food.
00:25:16.000And I know from farmers around here, they're already doing a lot of this work.
00:25:21.000But if you reached out to them, or every one of you, wherever you are, reached out to them, and just said two things to yourself.
00:25:31.000And if I can't, I will find a farmer In my vicinity, or a group of farmers in my vicinity, to take care of the earth, the farmer and myself.
00:25:41.000Because the beauty about community is, it's both about ultimate freedom of each part of the community, but it is about freedom of the community as an indivisible quality.
00:25:58.000And we will not have food, you know, the next step of Corporate colonization is going to be fake food.
00:26:57.000Nature takes and gives back and takes and gives back and takes and gives back.
00:27:00.000So for those who want to live outside the nutrition cycle and the food cycle that makes us Earth beings and say, no, we live outside it with food from labs.
00:27:13.000To me, they are the same mentality of escape from our Earth being as the Jeff Bezos and the Elon Musks want to fly to Mars.
00:27:25.000You know, they want to escape and let the earth, abandon the earth.
00:28:55.000Thank God I don't have to be a consumer forever.
00:28:58.000Thank God I don't have to be just a cipher for other people's ideas, latched onto this vampiric and parasitic system.
00:29:04.000Um, Vandana, um, but what about like, uh, it's very cheap, the mass-produced filthy food, and a lot of people, the food they eat, I believe, is determined by their economic status.
00:29:16.000I believe that people are trapped in a cycle of poverty and sickness.
00:29:19.000How do we ensure that good, wholesome food is economically viable?
00:30:56.000They're not growing food that they can eat.
00:30:59.000They're growing food with huge borrowing for chemical fertilizers, pesticides, seeds.
00:31:04.000And then they're having to sell what they grow to pay back the debt.
00:31:08.000And then borrow once more to buy to keep themselves alive.
00:31:12.000And that's happening even at a country scale.
00:31:15.000So, the issue of hunger today And the issue of price today has to be seen through the lens of the fact that there's structural systems to deny people their right to food.
00:31:31.000And the denial begins with denying them the right to produce food in a way that they can access their own production.
00:31:38.000But the second very big issue is this entire industrial globalized food system is supported by stealing our tax money.
00:31:50.000It cannot run on its own without subsidies.
00:31:54.000$400 billion a year, more than a billion a day, is what's taken from our pockets, given to the corporations, to take high-cost production and make it look cheap.
00:32:10.000And so, industrial globalised food looks cheap even though it's much more costly to produce.
00:32:15.000I mean, how can it be that food produced by a patented seed that is used round up and all kinds of chemicals and by the time it becomes processed, it becomes cheaper food.
00:32:30.000Because the costs are not internalized.
00:32:33.000They're externalized to nature and society.
00:32:36.000So where do we begin by correcting what I've called the nutritional apartheid?
00:33:22.000What killed them was the diseases of bad food.
00:33:25.0009.6% higher risk with Diabetes, 7.6% higher risk with cancer, both of which link to a food system.
00:33:38.000So I think what we have to do is a multi-layered movement.
00:33:42.000First begin with changing the system where you are.
00:33:47.000Protect the farmers, create markets, do the direct links, stop the separation.
00:33:53.000Because community building to me is we've been made separate from each other.
00:34:00.000And all we have to do is allow the flows between each other to rebuild community.
00:34:05.000And food is a very good place to start because it's real and you need it.
00:34:14.000So, you know, begin with local food community and whatever you can do with your means.
00:34:19.000Now most places where I know farmers markets have been created or the CSAs have been created, people have done it with their own initiative.
00:34:51.000But I think we absolutely need a rebellion against our taxes being stolen from us without our permission and being used to finance systems that are destroying the earth and destroying our health.
00:35:04.000And when we see the full connections, That movement will be easy.
00:35:08.000Remember the big, the US freedom began with saying, no taxation without representation.
00:35:18.000Now we should say, no stealing our taxes without our permission.
00:35:40.000Vandana, it's sort of hidden in plain sight that food is sacred, not least in the word festival, that is surely connected to the word feast.
00:35:53.000Most religious practices honor the process of eating your grandmother's food, your community dish, your national vegetable, the continuing instantiation of meaning connected to food.
00:36:08.000Meaning that perhaps might fill this spiritual void, this emptiness to which you referred, in the same way that substantive food might provide us with succor and nutrition anatomically and biochemically.
00:36:23.000It's interesting for you to hear you, Vandana, describe how integral the relationship between the farmers and the earth and the farmers and the rest of us and our obligation in a sense to become farmers is.
00:36:37.000Curious I am also that when we hear that the global farming movement Well, let me say there are global farming protests in Sri Lanka and in India and in Germany and in England and in the Netherlands because it seems as if there is one central movement that is impacting and infecting people from, let me use this word, diverse communities of multi-races and yet much of the rhetoric that is used to dismiss, disparage, smear and attack them relates to fascism.
00:37:44.000The first is that we have to create another narrative.
00:37:51.000We have to create a narrative that brings together the sacredness of food, the vitality of food to our health and well-being, both mental and physical, and the fact that food can.
00:38:04.000Food has been a destructive force under the industrial globalized system, but food is a regenerative force.
00:38:15.000In any system that works for the earth, and works in service for the earth, and works in care for the earth, food is a by-product of love and care for the earth.
00:38:31.000So food is a by-product of doing the right thing.
00:38:34.000And by the way, on the issue of spirituality and the material, I think it was already a strange division But now even the materialism is being hijacked because the last time I was in FAO, they were talking about dematerializing the seed and food.
00:40:14.000And I wrote, you know, when the junk food industry was trying to rewrite our laws on food safety, food and health safety, I wrote a very quick briefing paper for our Parliament.
00:40:34.000So when your seed is controlled by Monsanto, your trade is controlled, your chicken are controlled by Cargill, your junk food and therefore you're creating disease is controlled by Coke, Pepsi, Nestle, all of this is a system of food fascism.
00:40:51.000And then the next step of Silicon Valley and the techno-billionaires wanting to invest in fake food so that not only do you have one patent on a seed, now you have 14 patents on an impossible burger.
00:41:04.000On every fake food, there are hundreds of patents because every synthetic artificial element has a patent behind it.
00:41:13.000Can you imagine if the whole world would shift to fake food?
00:41:17.000How much royalty collection they'll have.
00:42:17.000Often we think of talking about Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg and Silicon Valley and these powerful new emergent titans in the global economic space who appear to have influence in areas of health, commerce and agriculture.
00:42:32.000I'm speaking of Bill Gates in particular there.
00:42:36.000It's become, in the same way as it's become fascist and right-wing to have conversations about personal freedom and conspiratorial, it's become conspiratorial to talk about some of the figures who appear to be benefiting from these new institutional and systemic changes that are taking place undemocratically without anybody voting for them or even being invited to have the conversation and often the conversation itself is shut down.
00:43:06.000It seems to me that what you're suggesting is the agenda of Bill Gates and this new cadre of technocrats and this elite billionaire class is a new kind of Total domination, a new kind of globalist imperialism, the likes of which we've never before seen because the technology didn't exist before.
00:43:26.000And whilst the technology for instantaneous communication exists now, which could be used of course positively, that we could organize and communicate differently, that we could form new confederacies, that we could form new independent communities that took responsibility for their own agriculture, that traded only when necessary in forms of currency that are decentralized and not attached to them, it also seems that there is A very, very powerful resistance to these freedom movements.
00:44:41.000So, earlier they used to use, you know, military and police.
00:44:47.000Now they're using instruments of surveillance and control.
00:44:51.000And the instruments of surveillance and control perform three functions for them.
00:44:56.000The first is to declare any dissenting voice.
00:45:05.000Because in a period of unfreedom, freedom is a dissenting voice.
00:45:09.000So to declare it as a threat and a conspiracy, and we watch that, a lot of it.
00:45:17.000The second is, we are living through a convergence of technologies.
00:45:23.000So Mr. Gates is key to the fact that he wants to digitalize agriculture.
00:45:28.000He's desperate to digitalize The economy, the financial... On India they pushed it in 2016.
00:45:37.000But you might have heard of the digital currencies.
00:45:42.000And basically every time anything is taken out of a direct interaction between community and taken into the digital realm, it's generating a rental income to Mr. Gates.
00:45:56.000Because some processing by Microsoft has to happen.
00:46:00.000So, of course, the desperation of digitalization, including digitalization of farming.
00:46:05.000And the third is that the surveillance economy is what they hope will be the new economy.
00:46:13.000That the surveillance itself will be the generator of the capital and the profit.
00:46:18.000And it's been called the surveillance capitalism.
00:46:22.000And just like nature was reduced to raw material, as we are being mined for data, we are the new minds.
00:46:31.000Earlier they went for coal mines and cobalt mines and bauxite mines.
00:47:24.000And you read the patent, it says, Patents for a user, that means the patents on us.
00:47:31.000Patents on a user using an equipment, and on the basis of what they're doing, assessing what they are about, which is surveillance, and then having algorithms allocate value on the basis of their functioning.
00:47:54.000And assign this value as a cryptocurrency.
00:47:57.000This is the social credit system in China right now.
00:48:01.000You can't go from one neighborhood to the next without passing your social credit system, if you have a bad social credit system.
00:49:59.000You're on a conveyor belt of sickness.
00:50:00.000Then attention, consciousness itself becomes a commodity.
00:50:04.000Your very beingness, our very beingness is turned into an object that can be controlled and patented.
00:50:11.000And Russell, you know, when the early stages of COVID, it was the older people who were dying in, in care homes.
00:50:22.000And the paper was published called the case for killing granny in a medical journal.
00:50:30.000And I was rushing back to India before being locked down.
00:50:33.000And, and the New York times of that day was saying, it's time to decide who will live and who will not live.
00:50:42.000In Canada, where I did my PhD, so I knew it as a society, but there were no homeless people.
00:50:48.000Now, they're not just arresting the homeless, they are saying, we will allow you to commit suicide.
00:50:57.000They passed a law, so that instead of the society ensuring no one is homeless, the dominant system is ensuring the homeless die.
00:51:11.000So, it is a new level of extermination and genocide.
00:51:17.000Because when large numbers are made disposable in society, then any instrument will be used to get rid of them.
00:51:26.000And to me, the only way you challenge this is recognizing there's no being on the earth that can be exterminated and pushed to extinction with pesticides and insecticides.
00:51:40.000But there's no human being who is dispensable.
00:51:43.000Every human being, no matter who they are, has a place to care for the Earth and regenerate our beautiful planet.
00:51:52.000We need all the hands, all the hearts, all the minds.
00:51:56.000Applause Sometimes I wonder what the face of Armageddon may look
00:52:07.000like, what the apocalypse may feel like when it impacts our skin.
00:52:11.000Then I think perhaps it's already among us that if you're already a person that is sleeping on the street, then you are a forebear, a harbinger of an already present apocalypse, an already present Armageddon, the observable symptom of an already emerging phenomena.
00:52:31.000Fandana, it's very important that you convey this, and that when you...
00:52:38.000present the idea that it is possible to eliminate human life or control human life.
00:52:45.000This, I think, is a gentle suggestion.
00:53:37.000And in fact, what's been different about this part of my own life,
00:53:40.000as opposed to the previous period, where it was more what you'd recognise as conventional
00:53:44.000celebrity in so much as I was participating,
00:53:46.000In systems of media that convey very particular and obvious messages that are to do with materialism in a sense and the valorization of low behavior.
00:54:52.000Do you think sometimes that when they talk of the Kali Yuga, that they mean everything heavy, everything dumb, everything not including light, everything not awakened, everything not vital with interconnectivity?
00:55:03.000Well, the Kali Yuga is basically the process of disintegration of a system that should pass away.
00:55:13.000And that creates the opening up for the regeneration of a new system.
00:57:39.000It's 25 times more greenhouse gas emissions than ordinary food.
00:57:47.000What they're offering as a solution is 25 times more polluting, but just growing a garden or doing organic farming, just the mycorrhizal fungi can hold enough carbon to hold one third of the emissions, just the fungi, the tiny little invisible fungi.
00:58:09.000And the data is showing that if even 10% farms and pastures and forests started to work according to ecological laws, we could draw down all the excess carbon and And of course not continue to emit.
00:58:28.000But the climate problem, the biodiversity problem, the hunger problem, the alienation problem, are all one problem.
00:59:24.000When we were speaking a moment ago, Vandana, you told me about the three principles.
00:59:29.000Because this is what I've become aware of.
00:59:31.000I've become aware that everywhere there are anti-protest laws being passed.
00:59:34.000I've become aware that there are Censorship laws simultaneously being passed, what are known as the Five Eyes countries, the countries that Edward Snowden exposed, were trading each other's data where their national laws prohibited surveillance that Edward Snowden revealed was happening.
00:59:49.000But these Five Eyes countries are introducing new censorship laws, the EU is introducing new censorship laws, they're trying to close down free speech, they're militarizing the police force, they are closing down the possibility for protest, they are shutting down good faith communication between different people, and all people are different people because we are They're of course unique.
01:00:07.000They're creating cultural conflict where it needn't exist, as well as the ongoing annihilation of nature.
01:00:14.000And whenever solutions are proposed, they are solutions that always impact ordinary people much more than they impact the institutions that are primarily responsible.
01:00:24.000One argument being the one that you have just espoused, that when it comes to the solution for agriculture is fake lab food and they are 25 times Worse.
01:00:33.000The solutions that Big Pharma propose make people sick in many cases, and of course, I'm not naive or foolish enough or ignorant enough to suggest that there aren't wonderful people working in science and medicine and in all of these disciplines, of course.
01:00:44.000And I will just mention as a side note, you can always tell at any festival, no matter what type of festival it is, a conventional music festival or a comedy festival, it's always a good sign when the other acts are watching the headliner.
01:00:56.000And here I can see Tommy Rosen, and everywhere I look there are people speaking.
01:01:00.000Satish Kumar is sat quietly observing, Helena Norberg, everybody is stopping.
01:01:06.000Tahir is still here to watch Vandana Shiva.
01:01:09.000Before we finish, I've got a few more things to ask Vandana, but please may we celebrate her just spontaneously in this moment with a glorious round of applause for this incredible teacher that we have been granted.