Stay Free - Russel Brand - Jimmy Tobias (Wuhan Lab Leak Theory)

00:00:00.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:00:01.000 Thank you for joining us.

00:00:02.000 If you're watching this live on YouTube right now, know that we will be with you.

00:00:06.000 We won't be you, you're you.

00:00:08.000 I mean, unless there is a limitless consciousness expressing itself through us as individual nodes, that we're part of a giant network.

00:00:14.000 I don't know how consciousness works.

00:00:17.000 In fact, nobody does. 0.97

00:00:18.000 What I do know for sure is that Joe Biden is a damn good dad. 0.98

00:00:23.000 And a very good boss. 0.98

00:00:24.000 Ron Klain, departing Chief of Staff, knows that too.

00:00:27.000 In a lacrimose announcement, he praises Biden's abilities as a father.

00:00:31.000 We're going to be looking at that in a moment.

00:00:33.000 Hunter Biden laptop revelations are abound.

00:00:37.000 Lost in euphemistic language.

00:00:39.000 Join us for the first 10 minutes while we're having a bit of a laugh here on YouTube, but once we click over onto Rumble, the home of free speech, that's what they're calling it, and certainly that's the reason we're there, so we can talk about the machinations of centralised power, the consent and consensus of the mainstream media in conveying narratives only that keep you, me, all of us in the dark, the inability for counter-narratives to simultaneously exist and be discussed Sensibly in an adult and empirical way in a climate where centralized corporate interests abide and govern.

00:01:10.000 We're going to be talking about the Wuhan lab leak with a fantastic guest, Jimmy Tobias from The Intercept, talking about all sorts of stuff which couldn't be conveyed on YouTube because as you know, YouTube's policy is set by the WHO.

00:01:23.000 The WHO is funded, number two funders, Let me know in the chat.

00:01:26.000 Let me know in the comments.

00:01:27.000 If you know who the second biggest funder of the WHO is, let me know.

00:01:31.000 In unrelated news, in our item, here's the news.

00:01:34.000 No, here's the effing news.

00:01:36.000 We're talking about Bill Gates, not from a conspiratorial perspective, actually, not about his previous and past relationships.

00:01:42.000 Those things are fascinating and interesting, but we're going to just track his investment throughout the pandemic.

00:01:49.000 This guy has got Nancy Pelosi-like investments.

00:01:51.000 Not Nancy Pelosi, Paul Pelosi.

00:01:53.000 Why do I keep thinking that Nancy Pelosi and Paul Pelosi talk about the investments?

00:01:57.000 It's not how it works.

00:01:58.000 They lay there in grim cadaverous silence in that bed, glancing up, making sure that the house is secured.

00:02:05.000 No one's on their way in!

00:02:08.000 Before we get into that though, there's a time for sentiment.

00:02:11.000 While you may not be able to afford energy, while you may be quaking under the weight of unpayable energy bills, true emotion is reserved for the expression of the changing of the guard within the White House.

00:02:24.000 One plutocrat leaves, another plutocrat comes.

00:02:28.000 Let's have a look at Rob Klain's departure speech.

00:02:32.000 I learned everything I know about how to be a good father from Joe Biden.

00:02:36.000 He is the best father I know and the best role model I know.

00:02:42.000 And along the way, he's taught me a thing or two about politics and policy as well.

00:02:45.000 He's learned everything I know about how to be a good father.

00:02:50.000 Yeah, he's a great guy.

00:02:52.000 It's incredible to see that amount of sentimentality and humanity.

00:02:56.000 It's a common thing, you'll notice that when people in political office leave.

00:03:00.000 It's like the thread that connects them to the matrix is cut and they have this sort of Gawping, yawning epiphany.

00:03:07.000 He is just a man who wants to learn how to be a father from dear Joe Biden, who's track record in that area.

00:03:14.000 Hey, you don't start questioning people's ability to parent, do you?

00:03:17.000 Even if it's potentially an agent of the state.

00:03:21.000 You probably want to question his business practices, you might say.

00:03:24.000 Question their business practices.

00:03:26.000 Certainly, Ron Klain.

00:03:28.000 Or the way that they keep files in garages.

00:03:30.000 Oh, get your files, get them in the silken wet, sopping garage.

00:03:36.000 Ron Klain, whatever you think about him, I think he's sort of lobbied on behalf of mortgage

00:03:40.000 companies and I don't think there's been any massive crashes

00:03:44.000 around mortgages, subprime mortgages in the last 20 years that led to the rise of extremism and poverty.

00:03:53.000 You're putting that all on wrong claim, are you?

00:03:54.000 Oh God, I'm so sorry that your house was foreclosed.

00:03:58.000 I should have lobbied on behalf of all.

00:03:59.000 Sorry about Lehman Brothers.

00:04:01.000 Sorry about the rise of different identities.

00:04:04.000 Joe Biden has talked me to be the best corn pop boxer that money can buy.

00:04:10.000 Have a look, though, at the geese. 0.93

00:04:12.000 If you think, oh, I don't want this cowardly lion sobbing sod as the chief of staff in the White House, look at who they've gone from one extreme to the other. 0.98

00:04:21.000 Check out once more Jeff Zients. 0.99

00:04:24.000 His name rhymes with science and he's yearning for a winter of death.

00:04:29.000 Have you unvaccinated?

00:04:32.000 You're looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals you may soon overwhelm.

00:04:41.000 You go!

00:04:42.000 He seems like a cheery chap who, of course, has made a $440 million fortune, by coincidence, from the health industry, from questionable health care firms.

00:04:52.000 Might be the reason why the hospitals are overwhelmed.

00:04:54.000 Could have something to do with the fraud that's being committed. 0.99

00:04:57.000 Don't be so ridiculous. 1.00

00:04:58.000 He's bloody unvaccinated. 1.00

00:04:59.000 Sure.

00:05:00.000 Unvaccinated, laying around in hospital beds with their adverse events and myocarditis.

00:05:05.000 I'm talking about the unvaccinated.

00:05:06.000 I know, I know.

00:05:07.000 You've been very clear.

00:05:08.000 Just to clarify, while we're still on YouTube, in other news, have a look at the headline that announces that Hunter Biden's laptop Has Hunter Biden's legal team went on the offensive Wednesday, demanding state and federal investigations into the dissemination of his personal material purportedly to be from his laptop.

00:05:29.000 So this is a case like he's already said, he's always said, Oh, it might be my laptop.

00:05:33.000 I don't know.

00:05:33.000 It might be, but it does sound a bit like it is when they're talking about dissemination of his personal material.

00:05:40.000 The dissemination of his personal material is what's got him into this jam.

00:05:43.000 Keep that personal material! 0.97

00:05:44.000 Stop disseminating!

00:05:45.000 Leave it in there, for God's sake!

00:05:47.000 Actually, Hunter Biden, as a fellow recovering addict, has nothing but my support and love.

00:05:51.000 I'm more interested in the allusions towards corruption from the big guy, none of which are proven at this stage.

00:05:58.000 Although one person who's not holding back on their perspective is everyone's favourite former president.

00:06:04.000 Here he is.

00:06:05.000 We have a president whose son's lapped up from hell, gets taken over, and exposes massive corruption like nobody's ever seen before.

00:06:14.000 Do you think the father—do you ever hear this?

00:06:18.000 Do you think the father was upset?

00:06:20.000 Actually, that's purely comedic.

00:06:23.000 I'm speaking now just as a stand-up comedian that his practice here is like in creating a scenario where he normalizes it and domesticize it.

00:06:32.000 Do you think the father gets upset?

00:06:34.000 He's inviting us in.

00:06:36.000 Sent it up somewhat beautifully.

00:06:38.000 This is no longer an analysis, obviously, of Trump's political views, opposition.

00:06:43.000 Loads of you love him as a populist, and surely equally as many of you question Donald Trump as a public figure.

00:06:49.000 But here, let's just look at him as an orator.

00:06:52.000 Dad, I left my laptop in a repair shop.

00:06:55.000 Forgot to pick it up, and this repair guy went a little crazy when he saw what was on it.

00:07:00.000 What's on it, son?

00:07:02.000 Every crime that you've ever committed.

00:07:05.000 Such a great out.

00:07:06.000 Yeah.

00:07:07.000 So brilliant.

00:07:07.000 And his little voice for Hunter Biden as well.

00:07:10.000 The guy went a little bit crazy.

00:07:12.000 It's pretty good, isn't it?

00:07:14.000 Yeah.

00:07:14.000 I once watched a clip where, when it was Clinton-Hillary versus Trump, they sort of asked them, and it was actually sort of heartwarming a bit, to say a nice thing about one another.

00:07:25.000 They challenged them.

00:07:25.000 Oh yeah.

00:07:26.000 Can you say one nice thing?

00:07:27.000 And he said she don't quit.

00:07:29.000 And he said his kids love him.

00:07:31.000 Wow.

00:07:31.000 His children love him.

00:07:32.000 Don't you want to see a little bit of humanity?

00:07:34.000 When you're caught up in the spectacle of contemporary politics, even though it is very theatrical and at points emotional, what it feels to me most of all is spiritually bereft.

00:07:44.000 The hypocrisy and corruption, to me, point to a lack of real values.

00:07:48.000 That's why it's so alienating for me and so encouraging when you speak to someone like Christian Smalls, the emergent Amazon union leader, who is talking about politics from the perspective of a

00:07:59.000 felt experience, someone that's working at a factory in a zero contract job and has become a union

00:08:05.000 leader. We need a different type of politics, that's what I would say, and I reckon whether you

00:08:09.000 like Trump or don't like him, the efficacy of his rhetoric is an indication that what we're

00:08:13.000 missing is the emotional timbre, the ability of human beings to connect one another in an

00:08:18.000 increasingly atomised world built on data, biometrics, control, surveillance, digital ID, total lack

00:08:24.000 of trust, total breakdown.

00:08:25.000 What do you think?

00:08:26.000 Let me know in the chat, let me know in the comments.

00:08:27.000 I think you're right about the humanity, and I think you're right about what you said about Ron Klain before, is that breakdown is like a moment that happens to politicians when they usually lose elections or quit their jobs, and it's that pent-up Essentially, having to lie about a system that is extremely broken, and even in the lie of saying, you know, I've left you in good hands with the next Chief of Staff, he knows that the next Chief of Staff has made 440 million dollars off fraudulent healthcare companies.

00:08:56.000 Just one last lie, then on to my crying!

00:08:59.000 Then I'm out, then I'm getting on my boat!

00:09:02.000 With mortgage lobbying money and presumably some sort of state salary paid for by your tax dollars.

00:09:06.000 And in a way, these are not indictments of any individuals.

00:09:10.000 But when you have a system built on the kind of values that it is, you recognize that the individual character is less and less relevant.

00:09:19.000 That's something that was made clear to me by Yanis Varoufakis when he was talking about the EU after his party, Syriza, briefly looked like they could bring about radical social change in Greece.

00:09:27.000 Then they met with the EU and it's like, you ain't doing nothing.

00:09:30.000 You're paying them banks back Baby, this is after the 2008 crisis caused by all those subprime mortgages, of course, by coincidence there.

00:09:38.000 And he said that even the most senior figures within the EU could only act in accordance with their role.

00:09:44.000 So the system itself limits any potential for radicalism or change, or in another way, any possibility of democracy.

00:09:53.000 You know that you would like to see money taken out of politics.

00:09:56.000 You know that you'd like to see lobbying ended.

00:09:58.000 You know that you want Congress people that don't own stocks and shares in the companies that they regulate.

00:10:03.000 You know you want meaningful democracy where your vote influences the actions and expenditure in your community.

00:10:09.000 You know that you want to have a spiritual connection to your country, to your community, to yourself.

00:10:15.000 That what you don't want to see is an increase in centralised power.

00:10:19.000 We've got a fantastic story coming up for you.

00:10:21.000 Will it be later this week or will it be next week, do you reckon?

00:10:23.000 I'm talking about Ukraine. Not only are they testing weapons in Ukraine, but

00:10:26.000 they're looking at pushing CBDC, centralised banking digital currencies. But beyond

00:10:31.000 that, it seems that in its post-war state, which people are already referring to in the

00:10:35.000 reconstruction, you've seen Zelensky talking about BlackRock and JP Morgan. They're going to be

00:10:40.000 piloting, this is according to our latest data, and you can look this up for yourselves,

00:10:45.000 digital surveillance, biometric technology, CBDC.

00:10:49.000 So the Ukraine, after everything, is going to be a kind of piloting ground for all sorts of globalist techniques.

00:10:56.000 Now, at the moment, we make no claim that there are centralized cadre of powerful individuals orchestrating all of this.

00:11:03.000 But certainly the technology and infrastructure is being introduced to a degree that if ever there were such a cadre, we'd be in serious trouble.

00:11:11.000 And I know some of you think that the cadre is already there.

00:11:14.000 I think they've talked about Ukraine becoming 100% digital.

00:11:16.000 100% digital?

00:11:17.000 And that's literally from the Ukrainian government.

00:11:20.000 That seems hard, to be 100% digital.

00:11:23.000 percentage, there's got to be a bit of it that's just some people trying to recover

00:11:27.000 from a terrible prolonged proxy war. That's got to be at least part of it. Listen, we

00:11:31.000 can't stay on YouTube forever because there's so many things we want to talk about that

00:11:35.000 are subjects of censorship. That's simply the reality. We are using this to bring about

00:11:39.000 dialogue and rhetoric that will unify people from across the political and cultural spectrum.

00:11:43.000 A humble aim for a humble man. So that's what we're doing here. We're talking to Jimmy Tobias.

00:11:49.000 He's got he's dug deep into Wuhan and the Fauci emails.

00:11:52.000 Doesn't look good. Doesn't look good. Like crazy stuff on there.

00:11:55.000 So you're going to want to click over and watch us on Rumble for that.

00:11:59.000 But now to put a little smile on your face before we leave YouTube.

00:12:04.000 A heartwarming story about prisoners who perhaps are imprisoned simply for the crime of being poor and addicted.

00:12:11.000 You know, that's a significant number of prisoners are going to have to give up their organs in order to get early freedom.

00:12:22.000 Oh Biden, he's been like, he's taught me how to be a father!

00:12:25.000 Okay, that's all well and good.

00:12:27.000 You're not operating in a country where prisoners are going to have to swap their kidneys for a day out in a park.

00:12:33.000 Oh yeah, that's happening.

00:12:34.000 We're doing that.

00:12:35.000 Firstly... Biden said I think one of his pledges when he came in was he was going to cut the prison population in half and I'm almost fairly sure that it's gone up.

00:12:43.000 What we're going to do is cut them down the middle.

00:12:45.000 You misunderstood. 0.96

00:12:46.000 We're going to cut them down the middle. 0.99

00:12:46.000 We're going to eviscerate them. 0.99

00:12:47.000 We're going to take out their precious, valuable livers. 0.99

00:12:50.000 I know there's only one.

00:12:51.000 And we're going to swap them for a lovely day out at Six Flags.

00:12:55.000 You know how you used to have two kidneys?

00:12:56.000 Yeah, I loved those guys.

00:12:58.000 They helped me with dialysis.

00:12:59.000 And how about...

00:13:01.000 One kidney, six flags. 0.81

00:13:03.000 What about SeaWorld, baby?

00:13:04.000 Not all of those whales are monsters.

00:13:07.000 Some of them had a good upbringing.

00:13:09.000 In Massachusetts, Democrats have a bold new proposal for prisoners.

00:13:13.000 Go on, donate your organs or bone marrow and get as little as a couple of months off your sentence.

00:13:19.000 I don't know, isn't that already a Twilight Zone episode where you sort of go to Oh my God, ever since I've had this new heart, I'm experiencing terrible fluctuations. 0.98

00:13:29.000 I'm afraid we accidentally darn gave you a murderer's heart.

00:13:34.000 He's obviously not getting a couple of months off his sentence for murdering. 0.97

00:13:39.000 I mean, literally heartless murderer.

00:13:41.000 How did they come up with it?

00:13:42.000 What kind of brainstorming session?

00:13:44.000 I'm sure there's other stuff going on at the moment.

00:13:46.000 What do you mean?

00:13:47.000 The brainstorming session?

00:13:48.000 The brainstorming session for this.

00:13:50.000 Where are we?

00:13:50.000 We're in the Democrats.

00:13:52.000 We are.

00:13:52.000 The annual conference of some sort.

00:13:54.000 We've got to come up with some novel ideas to get... Well, firstly, what it indicates is that cumin orchids are a commodity now.

00:14:02.000 Do you think it was a wrong claim?

00:14:03.000 Do you think that's why he's leaving? 0.99

00:14:05.000 I'm donating my tear ducts to a murderer! 1.00

00:14:09.000 Run! 0.68

00:14:11.000 I think, I don't know what generates those kind of reprehensible notions, but when human life itself becomes a commodity, when everything is information, when you are little more than data points, when they are working on technology that will mean that you can be nudged and manipulated into behaviours that are favourable to the interests of the state, then all bets are off.

00:14:29.000 Why not sell a person's kidneys? 0.92

00:14:31.000 Why investigate whether or not the penal system is working?

00:14:34.000 Why investigate the judiciary meaningfully?

00:14:36.000 Why not make the whole process AI?

00:14:38.000 As is already happening in the Ukraine, all of this stuff is underwritten by facts and by great reporting.

00:14:43.000 Later we're talking to Jimmy Tobias about those Wuhan Fauci emails.

00:14:47.000 Do you think we better come off of YouTube?

00:14:50.000 Can do.

00:14:51.000 We better get off YouTube because we're about to do this amazing presentation on Bill Gates.

00:14:56.000 Not that story.

00:14:58.000 On the other story about Bill Gates investing in BioNTech, selling his BioNTech shares.

00:15:03.000 This is all stuff that can be tracked.

00:15:05.000 His donations, not investment scale, donations to the World Health Organization.

00:15:10.000 Don't invest in the World Health Organization.

00:15:12.000 That's about health.

00:15:12.000 How would you be invested? I mean, what would it achieve?

00:15:15.000 Where could you ever make a profit? Exactly. How could you ever make a profit

00:15:18.000 by giving the World Health Organization a bunch of money?

00:15:22.000 I mean, all right, a little while later, they did try to globally mandate a product that Bill Gates

00:15:26.000 had also invested in. Oh, I see what you're doing. You're taking one fact from there and a fact from

00:15:31.000 there and putting them together. You conspiracy theorists, you are all the same, aren't you?

00:15:36.000 Why don't you just sit down like an obedient little prisoner of the state and devour your mainstream media soup, fill your mind with numb non-entity mishap rubbish, sit still and be quiet, or you could watch this. 0.95

00:15:49.000 Stay free with Russell Brand. 0.93

00:15:51.000 See it first on Rumble.

00:15:53.000 Some fantastic comments from you lot.

00:15:54.000 Thank you so much for your support.

00:15:56.000 Thanks for continuing to watch our show.

00:15:58.000 We go from one controversial, potentially conspiratorial story underwritten with hard facts, to another story where facts are continually denied and thrown shade upon in order, I think, to control particular narratives or, more specifically, counter-narratives.

00:16:16.000 Even... There's one person linking these two stories as well.

00:16:18.000 There's one guy, one little guy, who stands astride these tales like a colossus.

00:16:23.000 It's Bill Gates.

00:16:24.000 But now to bring us this story in new and vivid light is Jimmy Tobias, an investigative journalist, like me, from The Nation and Intercept.

00:16:34.000 Jimmy famously won a lawsuit against the NIH, revealing secret emails between Fauci and other scientists discussing the Wuhan lab leak theory.

00:16:42.000 Jimmy, thanks for joining us, mate.

00:16:45.000 Thanks for having me on.

00:16:47.000 Jimmy, real early on, prior to the public discourse being, in my opinion, heavily directed towards the natural origin theory, there were emails exchanged between Fauci, that dude from the WHO called FARA, Yeah, him.

00:17:03.000 And representatives of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, a charity by the way, they were exchanging emails about potential origins of the coronavirus pandemic.

00:17:15.000 Tell me, what were your objectives when writing your recent article, mate?

00:17:21.000 Yeah, well, you know, I sued the NIH to obtain these records and, you know, they were pretty eye-opening, newsworthy, I thought.

00:17:28.000 And in writing this article, we were really just trying to lay them out in the context in which they were written so people could see what some of the most important and influential people who were, you know, directing the pandemic response were saying about the origins of the virus in the very early days of the outbreak.

00:17:45.000 What conclusions have you drawn or what in particular did you find interesting?

00:17:50.000 What in particular do you think was at odds with the broadly conveyed public message?

00:17:56.000 Well, I mean, the documents show that Dr. Fauci in early 2020 was alerted to concerns, you know, among some of the world's top virologists that the virus looked potentially engineered.

00:18:08.000 And what followed was a series of confidential calls and emails between Dr. Fauci, NIH Director Francis Collins, Patrick Vallance, who is the chief science advisor to the UK government, and a group of other prominent scientists, discussing the virus's origins.

00:18:24.000 And early on, some of the scientists on these calls and emails really couldn't figure out how this virus was produced in nature, given some of its unusual features.

00:18:32.000 I mean, they were stunned by it.

00:18:33.000 They thought it may have come from a lab.

00:18:35.000 Other people on these calls and emails disagreed and thought it looked like it came from nature.

00:18:39.000 These deliberations went on for more than a week, pretty early in the discussions.

00:18:44.000 They sort of discarded the idea that it was engineered and instead focused on an idea that it was sort of, um, accidentally created and released from a lab, um, via this, this type of laboratory process called serial, um, yes, serial passage experiments.

00:19:01.000 And so during this time, they also started writing up drafts So these conversations started on January 31st.

00:19:06.000 proximal origin paper, one of the best read papers in science history. Um, and that paper

00:19:11.000 ultimately found that, that the, the virus came from nature.

00:19:16.000 Um, so these, these conversations started on January 31st by February 8th, one of the

00:19:20.000 scientists involved, um, Christian Anderson of scripts described the focus of the group's work

00:19:27.000 as an effort to quote, disprove any type of lab theory. But even after all this debate,

00:19:32.000 they still couldn't come down You know, they couldn't say it was a lab origin.

00:19:36.000 They couldn't say it was a natural origin.

00:19:38.000 I mean, they weren't ready to publish.

00:19:40.000 And then somehow between February 8th and early March, they overcame this uncertainty and published this proximal origin paper that came down very, very strongly on a natural origin site.

00:19:51.000 Documents don't really show how they overcame their uncertainty, how they went from, you know, this looks engineered, this looks like it could have been an accidental lab leak, to, you know, the proximal origin conclusion, which was they said they don't believe any type of, you know, lab-based scenario is plausible.

00:20:06.000 So that's sort of, in sum, what these documents show, this conversation, this very heated, anxious, confidential conversation in January and February 2020.

00:20:16.000 One of the participants in those conversations was Peter Daszak from the EcoHealth Alliance, who was involved in NIH-funded research in the Wuhan lab at that time.

00:20:28.000 Obviously, there's no evidence to suggest that there's any corollary between those pieces of information, but given the natural origin theories preeminent and the lack of public contemplation, at least for the potential of a lab leak.

00:20:43.000 It does seem that that's the very essence of a narrativised approach to data that could have perhaps been more equivocally presented.

00:20:52.000 And it's difficult not to deduce that the reason that the information wasn't presented in a more balanced manner is because they would prefer that, broadly speaking, the public favoured Natural origin because of the lack of obvious culpability from the people in the field of pharmacological research.

00:21:09.000 Does that seem like a reasonable set of assumptions, mate?

00:21:14.000 Well, actually, Peter Daszak was not a participant in these conversations, but, you know, I think when I wrote this article, I interviewed a variety of, you know, prominent experts and scientists.

00:21:26.000 Some of them said, you know, this is just science at work.

00:21:29.000 They had a conclusion, they collected data, they published this paper once they came to a conclusion, you know.

00:21:36.000 Other people see it very differently.

00:21:38.000 They see in these conversations a real effort to downplay any kind of lab theory, to downplay their deep concerns at the beginning.

00:21:46.000 And one of the people I interviewed who has that perspective was like, why?

00:21:52.000 Why did they do that?

00:21:53.000 And these documents I got don't really show exactly how they overcame their conclusions.

00:22:00.000 They're not a full view of what went on here.

00:22:02.000 And so I think they're definitely You know, more questions that need to be asked, whether that's from Congress, who's now investigating this issue, or other scientists.

00:22:11.000 But, you know, the documents certainly raise the kind of questions that you're bringing up, like how did they get from A to B, especially given some of the unusual features of the virus that they were so deeply concerned about early on in these conversations.

00:22:25.000 Additionally, it was obviously very difficult for you to gain access to this material.

00:22:31.000 Similarly, that suggests that there is a kind of clandestine hue to this data.

00:22:39.000 At very least, it seems to suggest that there ought be more transparency, but in spite of my error there in suggesting that Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance were involved in that particular email chain, there's some Evidence I understand of, if not collusion, communication between the NIH EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:23:02.000 That, along with the amplification of the natural origin theory, when there isn't, as I understand it, Conclusive evidence that that is the case, even on the basis of these emails, suggests that there is, at very least, a preference for, and even in the jump between, a conversation that is multifaceted and multivalent to a unilateral and global response.

00:23:31.000 I suppose, like, you know, when I'm trying to look at this from the most, what do I want

00:23:35.000 to say, compassionate perspective, I think what it is, is they were deeply concerned

00:23:39.000 about this pandemic. And they knew that there would have to be a unified response due to

00:23:43.000 the nature of the pandemic. And they couldn't deal with the complication and confusion and

00:23:48.000 the potential hit that their credibility would take if people were simultaneously digesting

00:23:52.000 the idea that this was somehow involved human ineptitude.

00:23:57.000 And we got a timeline, man, for the stuff that went on in Wuhan. I'm sure you're well

00:24:00.000 familiar with that. Installing air conditioning units, ripping them out again, all sorts

00:24:06.000 of weird stuff going on. I suppose, mate, because, you know, I gosh, I hope it's not just cynicism

00:24:12.000 and reductivism.

00:24:13.000 I feel that I have a tendency at least to direct people towards a condemnatory outlook of the players in establishing this narrative.

00:24:23.000 And I guess it seems to me that you're much more kind of, I don't know, balanced and like, you know, like you don't leap to those kinds of conclusions, huh?

00:24:31.000 Well, you know, I'm interested in the documents.

00:24:33.000 I'm interested in what else is out there.

00:24:35.000 I think there definitely should be a continuing investigation among scientists and representatives of the public into what went on, you know, here and in relation to the origin.

00:24:47.000 I don't think, you know, I don't think there's dispositive evidence on one side or the other.

00:24:51.000 And so, you know, just yesterday, the Congress launched an investigation to this question.

00:24:56.000 It was very, I thought it was very sober.

00:24:58.000 and and balance sort of sort of investigation but they're looking at these questions and no one i don't think anyone um you know has conclusive evidence but but you know one of the things that stands out for me from these emails is these some of the the things they saw in the virus um in his genome genome. You know, several of the scientists early on were

00:25:18.000 puzzled by the presence in the virus's genome of a furin cleavage site, which is a feature

00:25:23.000 that has not been found in other SARS related coronaviruses. And this plays a role, this furin

00:25:28.000 cleavage site plays a role, an important role in helping the virus infect human airways.

00:25:33.000 And these guys, some of these guys were just so bothered by its presence. You know, one

00:25:36.000 guy was like, I just don't see how this, you know, I can't figure out how this happens in

00:25:40.000 nature.

00:25:41.000 It's stunning.

00:25:42.000 And I don't see in these documents how they, you know, they started with this deep concern about this fear and cleavage.

00:25:48.000 You don't really see how they overcame that before they published the Proxima Origin paper.

00:25:52.000 And that paper, you have to understand, is like, it was extremely influential.

00:25:55.000 It's been accessed millions of times online.

00:25:58.000 It was cited by Dr. Fauci.

00:26:01.000 From the White House podium, you know, Dr. Collins wrote a blog post about it, you know, it was all over the news.

00:26:07.000 And that paper was very, you know, it came down very strongly on the natural origin side of this debate, and it emerged from these discussions.

00:26:15.000 So there's just a question, I think.

00:26:17.000 If any of these folks have been willing to talk to me, and none of them were, that's what I would ask them.

00:26:22.000 Like, how did you grapple with this?

00:26:23.000 How did you overcome it?

00:26:24.000 Because it's really not clear, and I think that outstanding question is one of the things that leads people to ask, like, what was going on here, you know?

00:26:32.000 And as for the records themselves, yeah, I mean, it took a year-long lawsuit to get these documents, more than a year, and They were heavily so, I mean, a lot of people were trying to get them.

00:26:42.000 Congress tried to get them.

00:26:44.000 NIH let them read the documents and take notes, but they couldn't keep full copies.

00:26:49.000 So it wasn't until, you know, NIH kind of caved to our lawsuit that these were really released fully and publicly.

00:26:55.000 And I do think, you know, that lack of transparency is concerning, and you see that in a lot of government agencies, but On a matter that's so important to the public, the fact that they dragged their feet like this is definitely cause for concern.

00:27:09.000 And I've heard that from people in Congress and elsewhere.

00:27:11.000 Yeah, a lack of transparency, dragging their feet and unwillingness to reveal the information.

00:27:18.000 Ongoing censorship of any counter narrative, particularly in the early days of the pandemic.

00:27:24.000 Anybody talking about the potential of a lab leak theory was at risk of being censored and kicked off social media platforms.

00:27:30.000 It happened again and again.

00:27:32.000 And as you point out, Jimmy, the sudden tangential A leap from genuine what you say sound like sort of professional curiosity and wow how has this occurred this ability to attack the airwaves we've never seen that nature to no no that's uh that's definitely uh natural origin a sudden truncating of inquiry occurred in conjunction with global censorship and a heavy redacting and control of these emails which you have tenaciously acquired and

00:28:03.000 I suppose we're from different disciplines and backgrounds, and I suppose collectively we have an obligation to lean into our particular skill sets.

00:28:11.000 Yours seems to be the unbiased analysis of various data, and mine is the emotional, incendiary rousing of suspicion.

00:28:20.000 Gareth, what do you want to bring to this conversation?

00:28:23.000 Yeah, maybe a balance between the two.

00:28:24.000 No, I just think it's really interesting what Jimmy's saying, that there are extremely prominent scientists that can't explain what they want us to think.

00:28:33.000 So this idea at the time that there's simply no way that it could have been leaked from a lab, that it's a natural origin, and yet there are prominent scientists.

00:28:41.000 And it didn't seem at the time like those views were, you know, allowed to be discussed.

00:28:47.000 And it kind of seems like something that's happened a lot over the last few years in terms of experts in their fields being marginalised and, you know, as we're told, kind of are conspiracy theorists.

00:28:59.000 But I think expertise not being allowed to kind of be present and spoken about doesn't seem like a great idea.

00:29:07.000 Does it, Jimmy?

00:29:10.000 Yeah well I'll say you know one of the one of the scientists I spoke to for this story who is a computational virologist at a university around Philadelphia and you know he's sort of agnostic on the lab leak or natural origin question you know he said looking at these documents it started out as this fairly careful discussion where they're airing out these anomalies and and you know they say multiple times we don't have the data to resolve where this thing came from but at some point you know he says He thought that, you know, there was such strong pressure that they went from, let's just wait for more data to let's publish something, you know, that has a very strong opinion favoring one explanation over the other without acquiring your data.

00:29:48.000 So I'm paraphrasing him and his question is why?

00:29:51.000 Why did that happen?

00:29:52.000 And, you know, if I, if these folks had talked to me, I would have asked them some of these questions, you know.

00:29:56.000 You know, neutrally, I just want to hear what they have to say about how they got from A to B on this very, very important paper.

00:30:04.000 And, you know, there are other things going on too.

00:30:06.000 You know, I mentioned in the article that before these calls and conversations really kicked off, Dr. Fauci went to his deputy to find out what kind of funding arrangements the NIH had established with institutions in China.

00:30:21.000 And just last week, the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services

00:30:26.000 released a pretty scathing report about failures of NIH oversight on some of the grants

00:30:31.000 that went to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which is a leading center of coronavirus research in China,

00:30:36.000 in the city where this virus first emerged.

00:30:41.000 And among the things that that report found, that inspector general report,

00:30:45.000 was that for more than a year now, NIH and the EcoHealth Alliance,

00:30:52.000 which was sort of a pass-through funding group that was doing work with the Wuhan Institute of Virology,

00:30:57.000 they've been asking the Wuhan Institute to provide them lab notes and other data

00:31:02.000 about their experiments that were going on there with federal funding.

00:31:05.000 And the lab has not been responsive.

00:31:09.000 And so, this Inspector General report, you know, suggests that NIH consider banning the Institute from any, you know, future funds for research.

00:31:19.000 But, you know, I think the fact that, you know, that Institute has been stonewalling the federal government is concerning, I think, to say.

00:31:27.000 I think it's fair to say it's very concerning.

00:31:29.000 And raises questions and has to do these documents, you know, they raise a lot of questions more than answering a particular question more than providing dispositive evidence.

00:31:38.000 I think they raise questions, and people obviously can interpret these things differently and I welcome them to do so but I think there's more work to be done to investigate some of these questions and look into them further and I think that's completely reasonable to do.

00:31:52.000 Yeah, we saw that report as well.

00:31:54.000 They missed deadlines, ignored protocols, a dog ate their homework.

00:31:59.000 Let's have a look at that timeline again, if we could, just to take us on what I call a little meander through Wuhan and some of the more anomalous facts.

00:32:10.000 May I see the timeline?

00:32:13.000 So, in autumn 2019, the Wuhan Institute of Virology had a number of outstanding maintenance projects including environmental air disinfection system and hazardous waste treatment system.

00:32:23.000 A notice of laboratory inspection was issued for September 2019.

00:32:27.000 Shortly after in 2019, still September, the WIV, the Wuhan Institute, took their public virus database offline.

00:32:34.000 Get that offline, it's about September 2019.

00:32:37.000 The Lablin announced a contract competition to renovate their air conditioning system for approximately $660 million.

00:32:44.000 Expensive is the World Cup of Air Conditioning.

00:32:47.000 The announcement was later removed from the Chinese Ministry of Finance website.

00:32:51.000 This, along with the inquiries that Fauci was making, sort of suggests that there was definite concern, both within the NIH and in the Wuhan Institute itself.

00:33:04.000 Like it's an extraordinary... That's the issue.

00:33:06.000 The issue isn't it with all of this is that when Fauci's questioned and is kind of so dogmatic about the origins of this and what it could be and what it couldn't be and I guess what a lot of people and Jimmy included are calling for is some transparency and discussion around this rather than as I say the kind of dogmatic approach to this is the only way it could have happened even though all this new evidence is coming to light.

00:33:31.000 Is Jimmy calling for transparency?

00:33:32.000 Because I see you saying Jimmy's calling for transparency.

00:33:35.000 Jimmy's done a lot of work.

00:33:36.000 Congress couldn't get their hands on them files.

00:33:38.000 Jimmy, though, he's a tenacious man.

00:33:41.000 Well, Jimmy, what was it that made you start this inquiry in the first place?

00:33:45.000 Why did you have this journalistic hunch in a profession now that's more determined by towing the line and keeping your mouth shut and being an establishment mouthpiece?

00:33:53.000 Where do you get this intrepid spirit of inquiry from?

00:33:56.000 And do you feel a bit pleased with yourself now that you've got it?

00:34:01.000 Well, yeah, I'm really pleased we got these documents and it was a long fight and I have to give credit to my FOIA attorneys who worked for me on a pro bono basis.

00:34:10.000 They're amazing.

00:34:10.000 They're based out of Chicago.

00:34:12.000 You know, I got into this.

00:34:13.000 I mostly cover wildlife and conservation issues, really.

00:34:16.000 And, you know, that's sort of what initially drew me to this topic, because, you know, obviously habitat degradation, wildlife trade issues are contributing to the rise of, you know, emergence, emerging infectious diseases around the world.

00:34:28.000 And I also do a lot of FOIA requests and kind of probe federal environmental agencies, especially.

00:34:33.000 And so in 2021, the journalist Jason Leopold is also a great FOIA reporter, obtained a really large batch of Dr. Fauci's emails, and they were heavily redacted.

00:34:42.000 And so in reading those, I saw sort of some of these conversations, but they were all, you know, behind black redactions.

00:34:49.000 And so I filed some of my own FOIA requests, sort of targeting some of the communications that were in that larger batch from Jason Leopold.

00:34:56.000 I mean, what I got back were a bunch of documents, but they were very heavily redacted.

00:35:01.000 And so we sued over the redactions and eventually NIH relented and released them, you know, last November, late last November, right before the Thanksgiving holiday.

00:35:11.000 Right before Dr. Fauci left office.

00:35:15.000 So, you know, we didn't even have a judge order them to release them.

00:35:19.000 They actually did it according to my lawyers of their own accord, but it's sort of unclear why they did it then after dragging their feet for so long about these redactions.

00:35:30.000 Extraordinary.

00:35:30.000 Jimmy, thank you so much for joining us and thank you for your intrepid, tenacious work in revealing this important information to a wider audience and for your rather charming interest in nature and natural habitat.

00:35:45.000 You're an adorable man.

00:35:47.000 You can read more of Jimmy's work at JimmyTobias.com.

00:35:49.000 He also writes for The Intercept, among other organisations.

00:35:53.000 Jimmy, thanks for joining us, mate.

00:35:55.000 Thank you so much for having me.

00:35:57.000 It's lovely to meet you.

00:35:58.000 Take care, mate.

00:35:58.000 Thanks very much.

00:36:00.000 Redacted emails of Antony Fauci's.

00:36:03.000 I'm really worried that the Wuhan Institute of Virology is... Especially as I've received a large payment from... My friend Peter Daszak!

00:36:17.000 Dear Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, I love you and your guys.

00:36:23.000 These are the reasons.

00:36:24.000 I went on a recent holiday to a lovely... ...with a man who's first name begins with G and second name... Like my little joke?

00:36:33.000 Yep, all jokes.

00:36:34.000 All just jokes that you can make in the world when you're mucking about.

00:36:37.000 Redacted jokes for a bit of fun to pass the time.

00:36:40.000 He was very careful, wasn't he, Jimmy?

00:36:42.000 Oh, God.

00:36:42.000 Like, sometimes I like people to be a bit more... No, I know.

00:36:45.000 I know.

00:36:45.000 But that's... I guess that's as an investigative journalist, you know.

00:36:48.000 Well, I'll tell you, Scout, as an investigative...

00:36:51.000 I'll see investigative journalists.

00:36:52.000 We're a tricky breed.

00:36:54.000 Jimmy and I had an odds for many things when it comes to... Don't always see eye to eye.

00:36:59.000 I'm one of the more mavericks out there.

00:37:01.000 Yeah, of course, I was pushing them to release them emails as well, but I only sent one email.

00:37:05.000 Would you mind, Awfully, if I could have a look at them emails?

00:37:07.000 I didn't get a response.

00:37:08.000 I just left it.

00:37:09.000 Jimmy, he carried on.

00:37:11.000 Yeah, he's a persistent man.

00:37:13.000 In the end, he got that scoop.

00:37:15.000 Mark my words, gal.

00:37:18.000 I'll get the next one because I'm sending plenty of emails out to all sorts of people, demanding all sorts of stuff.

00:37:24.000 Soon it'll be along.

00:37:25.000 Hey, well, what a show it's been, has it?

00:37:28.000 Oh, it certainly has.

00:37:29.000 Enjoyed yourself?

00:37:30.000 I had a lovely time.

00:37:31.000 You joined in?

00:37:32.000 I know, it was nice.

00:37:33.000 Joined in with Jimmy?

00:37:34.000 I just thought, throw a question in there.

00:37:37.000 People might like that, and if they do, why don't you watch our show Stay Connected, where me and Gareth show you the show behind the show, where we respond to your questions and inquiries, anything you want to know about how we compile this investigative great work.

00:37:50.000 Mostly I can tell you now, it's me, I do all of the work.

00:37:53.000 But if you want a deeper look at how it's done, if you want to know how it is that sometimes we suddenly stop broadcasting in the middle of the stream, That's because of Al's fault, isn't it?

00:38:01.000 Yeah, that's Al.

00:38:02.000 Al, one of the lads who works here, he suddenly just, he's off looking out the window eating a Cornish pasta, you don't press the right button, he don't know what he's doing, the poor sod, he's staring around the place.

00:38:11.000 Just looking at wildlife, he's like Jimmy.

00:38:12.000 He's like Jimmy, he might be, oh look, a kingfisher, oh no, the stream's stopped!

00:38:15.000 The stream's gone!

00:38:16.000 I just thought I saw an otter!

00:38:17.000 Never mind otters! 0.65

00:38:18.000 Yeah.

00:38:19.000 Get the stream out there, is what I say.

00:38:21.000 So you can see how we come up with this work.

00:38:22.000 Also, we focus more on the emotional, mental health, spiritual aspects.

00:38:27.000 You know, listen, we're going to have to sort our spirits out, aren't we, Gareth?

00:38:29.000 If we're going to contend with an atrophying world full of the corrupt, governed by some of the most evil dominator cultural forces in history... Revolution.

00:38:39.000 An AI revolution.

00:38:39.000 We've got some fantastic stories coming up for you next week and some amazing guests.

00:38:43.000 And we're rounding off the week in what I would call great style with an incredible flourish.

00:38:48.000 I'll be speaking to Deepak Chopra, the spiritual teacher.

00:38:52.000 Me and him will be talking about corruption, the mindsets behind corruption, how to actually deal with living in this world right now.

00:38:59.000 We do a fantastic meditation.

00:39:01.000 You'll enjoy that.

00:39:02.000 Sign up to my locals community where you can see...

00:39:06.000 I mean, a very special meditation between Deepak and I. I call it a meditation.

00:39:11.000 What made it special?

00:39:12.000 I would say the erotic tension between Deepak and I. That raised it a couple of notches, maybe even three notches, I'd have to say.

00:39:24.000 A couple of centimetres?

00:39:26.000 Almost certainly!

00:39:28.000 Full mast!

00:39:30.000 My man!

00:39:31.000 Also, you want to join up to our Stay Connected community on Locals where you get not only an additional show, you also get the joy, the glory of being the first to see my stand-up special that's coming Up soon.

00:39:46.000 Let us know what guests you want to see in the chat because we'll bring them on to the show if possible if they're not crazy and you know some of your suggestions are crazy and I'll see you tomorrow and we can cultivate an inner light so that we can handle this together so we can find the compassion and power within us to handle the changes that are definitely going to have to be undertaken.

00:40:01.000 You heard Jimmy.

00:40:02.000 Jimmy might not be gung-ho.

00:40:04.000 Old Russ is gung-hon.

00:40:05.000 Gotta change the world baby.

00:40:06.000 Join us tomorrow not for more of the same but for more of the different.

00:40:09.000 Till then, stay free.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - February 03, 2023

Jimmy Tobias (Wuhan Lab Leak Theory)

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