In order to make up for the catastrophic technological challenges of the last week, we re giving you an additional conversation with Jordan Peterson that should only be available to our Awakened Wonders local subscribers. Have you watched Break Bread yet? Did you see my conversation with Tucker Carlson? did you see his conversation with Ruslan Lazlan a Christian YouTuber and commentator? It s a brilliant conversation. You might want to consider becoming an Awakening Wonder. And even if you don t, you will certainly want to watch this conversation between me and JP. By the end of it, I m talking about Christianity more openly than ever before. In this video, you re going to see the future. So I m looking forward to see you in this video! You re gonna love it! Stay free, and remember: You re not alone. - Russell Brand And thank you so much for remaining true and faithful to us while we've had these technological challenges here in the United States, and thank you for being part of our new community. Here s a very special edition of Stay Free with Russell Brand: Stay Free, and Remember to See The Future. The End, featuring Jordan Peterson. And by the end, you ll be a part of the Awakening Wonder community! And you ll see The Future, and you ll get to be part of The Future! - And you'll get a chance to be a member of the community that's going to help shape the next generation of Awakening Wonders. In this episode, you'll learn about the future, and it'll be a better place in the next episode of the world, and they'll get to know who you'll be able to do that. . - So I hope you'll see the next one, and I'm looking out for it. -- Russell Brand, too! -- -- and you'll hear about it in the future -- you'll have a better of it -- so much more than you can do it, and that's not going to be like that, right? -- it'll have it, right here, right there, right, in The End? -- Thank you, Russell Brand and I'll see it in The Future? -- you're going to have it in a video on the future? -- And you're gonna get to see it on this, too, in this, and so on, and we'll be there, and there's gonna have it at The End.
00:01:59.000The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End The End Brought to you by Pfizer So I'm looking forward to see you
00:02:17.000In this video, you're going to see the future.
00:02:34.000Welcome to a very special edition of Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:02:38.000We are, in order actually to make up for some of the catastrophic technological challenges of the last week, giving you an additional conversation with Jordan Peterson that should only be available to our Awakened Wonders.
00:03:03.000You might want to consider becoming an Awakened Wonder.
00:03:05.000And even if you don't, you will certainly want to watch this conversation between me and JP. By the end of it, I'm talking about Christianity more openly than ever before.
00:03:45.000Joe has passed and he can look after himself physically, shall we say.
00:03:50.000We're stopped by the police on a winding rural road in England because a tree has fallen.
00:03:56.000We can see the tree arcing over the road.
00:03:58.000It's not yet entirely fallen and the local constabulary tell us You can't go down there because that tree's fallen.
00:04:05.000And I say, well, are you saying that we're not allowed to go down there?
00:04:10.000Or are you saying that you will prevent us from going down there?
00:04:13.000Are you just advising us that it's dangerous?
00:04:15.000Or are we sort of free and we can assess for ourselves whether or not we're willing to take that risk?
00:04:20.000And the guy says, you're not allowed down there.
00:04:22.000Me and Joe bridle a little bit of the assertion of this authority.
00:04:26.000we get back into the car and Joe says like that, you know, what kind of impulses occurred to him under those circumstances.
00:04:32.000And I said, it's very interesting, isn't it, Joe?
00:04:34.000Because if you'd have acted on those impulses, imagine the consequences that would unfold from that kind of confrontation, given how seriously those matters are treated, understandably, because the thin blue line between sort of order and chaos...
00:04:49.000Isn't it curious to reflect that if you take an atemporal perspective on this, the power that they are utilizing and deploying to prevent us going down that pathway has the same genesis as the impulse that we had to curtail in so much as a long,
00:05:09.000long time ago there were various tribes and some of those tribes were more successful than those other tribes and eventually over time They coagulate and become a monarchy, and the monarchy requires a police force, and the police force is formed, and the police force is charged with keeping order.
00:05:22.000What undergirds all of that power, ultimately, if you trace it back far enough, you know, you could argue in a well-run system, and that would have to be some kind of electoral democracy, some sort of representative order, wouldn't it, on some level, although, you know, I've heard people make cases for feudalism these days,
00:05:38.000or benign dictatorships, that the power itself of authority is just a line of The power that those police were able to hold over us was the same power that we might decide to use to overpower them in that moment,
00:06:35.000Oh, are we going to take this to the point where we're going to What is unquestionable power?
00:06:49.000What is indefatigable, indisputable power?
00:06:52.000When you talk about this sort of ambivalence, the chaotic characters that enter continually through myth, normally in the guise of some harlequin or trickster, a person that refuses to, you know, either the face is covered, they don't bear the mark of the divine, they're not made in his likeness, they are pied, they are neither the light pillar or the dark pillar.
00:07:13.000These figures are terrifying as precisely as you said because they're not operating within that order.
00:07:18.000Now what I think we're in at the moment Is that merely the prelude, we are eating the appetizers, not the main dish, and something like the Olympic ceremony is part of the inauguring of that ambiguity and chaos.
00:07:32.000Hey, Jesus Christ, your most revered figure, let's play him like this!
00:07:35.000Or, oh, it was just Dionysian, it was just a bit of Bacchanalian fun, kind of curious reference in itself, actually.
00:07:42.000And what flows, I would offer, and I'm asking, what flows out of that is now the assertion of a centrifugal force that benefits from the chaos that was temporarily induced through the sort of the offerings of hedonism, through licentiousness, through, hey, there are no boundaries to sex because they're quite an odd...
00:08:02.000The concomitant component of this, Jordan Peterson, is there is, in my country, I recognise, and I've been the subject of, an odd puritanism and a conflating of the, you know, it's a conversation that we had some time ago, actually, the ability to attract as predation.
00:08:19.000That all the while, this permissiveness, hey, be what you want, do what you want, do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law, this literal satanic shit that's sort of flowing out, is this odd puritanism.
00:08:58.000And I wonder, though, why it's terrifying.
00:09:01.000I reckon it's a precipitous and uncanny fear that where on some level you know some dark thing comes, something slouches towards Bethlehem to be his antichrist, his satanic.
00:09:13.000We know that it only appears to be ambiguous, but what follows it is quite definitive.
00:09:20.000Thank God it's you on the other end of this conversation.
00:09:23.000Otherwise, the answer might be, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:09:27.000Okay, so the first thing I would say, we could use as an example what's happened at many university campuses.
00:09:32.000Okay, so there's an insistence in our culture that all forms of sexual conduct whatsoever are not only allowable, but laudable and to be celebrated.
00:09:43.000And that makes itself manifest, I would say, not only, but quite particularly on university campuses, where all forms of identity are given equivalent worth and celebrated, right?
00:09:56.000Everyone can love who they want the way that they want, let's say, as if what we're talking about is love, and very rarely is.
00:10:03.000All right, so it's the same campuses where you see And this was particularly true about five years ago, where there was insistence from often the same people that any interaction that was physical between a young man and a young woman of any sort had to be bounded by something approximating a written contract.
00:10:24.000And the reason for that, so what you see first is that everything goes, and then you see second, yeah, but nothing is permissible, which is exactly the response you'd expect from that chaotic hedonism.
00:11:04.000One of the things we know, for example, this is a terrible thing too.
00:11:09.000There have been personality analysis of people, men in particular, but it's also true for women.
00:11:14.000So imagine that there are people who tilt towards long-term commitment and there are people who tilt temperamentally towards short-term mating opportunities.
00:11:24.000That's how the evolutionary biologists talk about it.
00:11:26.000So long-term commitment, short-term sexual access.
00:11:30.000Alright, then you can map the personalities of the people on those two extremes.
00:11:34.000The men who prioritize short-term sexual access are Machiavellian, narcissistic, Psychopathic and sadistic.
00:11:47.000And so, the hedonism that characterizes the sexual revolution throws women into the hands of predators.
00:11:54.000The consequence of that is the terror that produces the desire for regulation of sexual behavior.
00:12:00.000The demand for the regulation is precisely proportionate to the degree of disarray on the hedonistic side.
00:12:06.000Right, so part of it is Many young people are just forgoing relationships altogether.
00:12:12.000Maybe the young men are turning to pornography.
00:12:13.000God only knows what the young women are doing.
00:12:15.000And you get this call for the heaviest possible hand of the intrusive patriarchal state.
00:12:26.000So that's part of the answer to the multitude of questions that you put forward.
00:12:30.000You see, the psychoanalysts always knew this, is that there's some target that's being aimed at.
00:12:38.000And if you stray too far in one direction, you get a counter-response on the other, in the same person.
00:12:44.000So if you're The person who's thrown themselves into hedonism headlong will have an unconscious longing for the order that will either suppress that in the pathological sense or rectify it, bring it back to the middle, bring it back to the place that's more meaningful.
00:13:02.000Now, what you'd hope for in a situation like that would be something approximating a genuine religious transformation.
00:13:10.000Now, and that brings up another point that you made that touches on the postmodern issue.
00:13:14.000So you said when you were with your friend and you were dealing with the tree authoritarians, you had a flight of fancy that indicated that the authority that the police were using was a derivation of the same rebellious spirit that made itself manifest in you.
00:13:56.000In the Judeo-Christian tradition, exactly the inverse of that is true, because the insistence within the Christian tradition in particular, though it's got its roots in Judaism, is that the king of all kings is exactly the person, so if that's Christ, the king of all kings is precisely the person who subordinates their sovereignty to true service to the most downtrodden and outcasts.
00:14:21.000It's the inverse, it's the absolute inverse of the power principle.
00:14:25.000That's why Christ so peculiarly forgoes his ability to use authority, even in the face of mortal threat, and the Jews who are surrounding him at that time, this has nothing to say about Judaism, the people who surround, his own people who surround him at that time, are struck dumb that he doesn't come Forward in all his glory as a figure of power.
00:14:50.000But there's a transformation there, and the transformation is predicated on the idea that the most fundamental and redemptive form of sovereignty itself, the authority on which the state is based, is service of the highest to the lowest.
00:15:07.000It's a stunningly brilliant inversion, and it's sufficiently stunning, by the way, historically speaking, independent of its theological connotations, is that the revelation that that attitude constitutes demolishes Rome and destroys the pagan world.
00:15:23.000Right, so say what you want, theologically, the force of that Re-capitulation, that re-imagination of what constitutes the basis of proper sovereignty is so powerful that it defeats imperial Rome, a country based on power and very effectively, right?
00:15:42.000And so that's a thing that's so bloody remarkable.
00:15:44.000And then with the English state, you know, the English state itself, insofar as it was a benevolent It was a form of benevolent social organization, and it was to a marked degree.
00:15:57.000It wasn't predicated on the, what would you say, the taking to the state of power.
00:16:24.000It's just something that was above her, and she was unbelievably effective at that.
00:16:28.000I know she's not a true temporal leader, but she was certainly a leader and example.
00:16:33.000The rest of the conversation is going to be off YouTube.
00:16:36.000Click the link in the description if you want to see the rest of this conversation.
00:16:42.000I like that not only is there the position of king as servant by his associations, his relationship, his practices in the Gospels, there is also the silence at the trial.
00:16:59.000While on trial, under human conditions, Christ says next to nothing.
00:17:40.000And then if I can add to it, Jordan, when we were chatting outside, we were saying that, you know, all things have a symbolic connotation.
00:17:48.000To sort of exist at all, meaning must be derived from them, or exist, stroke, be registered, be read.
00:17:55.000Another of those moments that I've experienced in my personal conversion, and I'd be interested of course because I know you've just done some work on the Beatitudes for your university, is that when I think about the last shall be first and the first shall be last, the assumption is that that's a reordering based on economics.
00:18:16.000But when I apply that in my own life, the first shall be last and the last shall be first, who's first in my life?
00:18:24.000People that can't do anything from me.
00:18:26.000When I am with Christ, the people that I can't do anything for become most important to me.
00:18:32.000And I myself become least important to me.
00:18:34.000And that is how I know that I am with Christ.
00:18:37.000To this point you made earlier about power for power's sake.
00:18:42.000I suppose, you know, that all these dynamics and hegemonies are founded upon the Foucauldian idea that its only power is power for power's sake.
00:19:34.000An inversion of the trinity, an inversion of the relational aspects of the Father-Son and the Holy Ghost, an absolute interpersonal superstate of potentiality that only collapses into wave or particle in relationship with another conscious entity, i.e.
00:20:17.000This, I think, is going to be a game changer for all of us.
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00:21:00.000Anyway, there's a link there at the bottom of the screen now.
00:21:08.000Once you extract God, and like, of course, you're the person that's probably popularized, certainly more than anyone I know, the idea that even if you don't believe in God and you're an atheist and a materialist, if you have any values at all, that is functionally God in your...
00:21:21.000Whatever you put in the highest place is God functionally.
00:21:25.000If you remove God-God, divinity, the Christian principle that you just outlined, from the highest to the low, serve to serve to surrender, if you obliterate that, or another word for obliterate, annihilate it, With festivals of nihilism, this is what I think the function of Epicureanism and Hedonism is, I think it is, it does have a telos, and maybe that's a challenge to its ambiguity, that it's to create the conditions where there is no meaning.
00:21:53.000Once there is no meaning, we can lay claim to the very authority that we were trying, that the globalism, corporatism, materialism, rationalism, postmodernism, It's trying to deconstruct before our eyes.
00:22:06.000Indeed, the only dam, the only guardrails, the only guard against this kind of, this absolute tyranny that we might, I think, be on the precipice of experiencing is God or at least some sort of consensus around good.
00:22:36.000So, now, Christ as sovereign principle is the proposition that the proper source of union of psyche and union of society is the voluntary, self-sacrificial principle that the passion portrays.
00:22:52.000Okay, so that's the highest principle of sovereignty.
00:22:55.000That's actually the pattern that generates order out of chaos, the willingness to confront chaos, mortality, malevolence.
00:23:01.000And to do that voluntarily, to put yourself at that service and to do it in the service of what's lowest.
00:23:53.000The other thing that emerges is sexuality.
00:23:55.000You can even see that in what happened, is that Freud, for example, psychoanalyst, secular, who emerged right in the aftermath of Nietzsche, said, oh, well, God's dead.
00:25:02.000Odd and oxymoronic is the fact that it's forms of sex that are not procreative that become most celebrated because they have as their terminus, to quote an idea from Jeremiah, instead of the continual flow of the living waters, all of us make cisterns of our individual identity.
00:25:19.000All of us form pools of pleasure, epicurean little pools of effluvia to sort of Splash around in, dowsing ourselves in the stink of personal epicurean joy instead of being part of the flow, i.e.
00:25:34.000that pleasure is a byproduct of the sexual function.
00:25:37.000It's a pool that becomes stagnant and corrupted very rapidly.
00:25:40.000This was also something Dostoevsky understood.
00:25:43.000It's like that, see, I mean, part of the problem, you might say, why not?
00:25:47.000I think this was true of the events in your own life.
00:25:50.000It's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.
00:25:52.000If you can have an endless vista of hedonistic pleasure, particularly in a sexual front, why wouldn't you?
00:26:00.000And one answer is, well, unbeknownst to you, it devours itself.
00:26:04.000It does it socially, it does it psychologically, and you will inevitably experience that.
00:26:09.000Now, most people aren't in that position, because they...
00:26:12.000They don't have that vista available for exploration.
00:26:15.000And then their morality is, well, I wouldn't do that even if I had the chance.
00:26:30.000And not everyone gets to experience the access.
00:26:34.000And when indeed the only thing that possibly could have prevented me having that journey would have been...
00:26:41.000Probably some kind of patriarchal or divine feminine principle or some alliance of the two that would say, even though this would seem expedient, even though your culture is glorifying this for yourself...
00:30:20.000So in a sense, that's exactly what's playing out now.
00:30:23.000It's we are saying and living and practicing, we will take it from here.
00:30:29.000We, through technology, That's the Tower of Babel.
00:30:33.000We will, citizen management, we will control, we will take over, we will, through cultural ideology, replace what appeared to be sort of permanent and even universal realities when it comes to taxonomies.
00:30:45.000Those taxonomies can be dissolved now and the only will is the will of the individual.
00:32:19.000Well, you made a point earlier, I think, before, when we were talking before, maybe before this discussion, that you had worked with a screenplay writer who insisted that the most appropriate way to demonstrate true love in the course of narrative is the only way, the only way, is to indicate willingness to sacrifice.
00:33:57.000Yeah, and paradigm breaks and become ineffable, and the connotations of that, the historic connotations that you've already alluded to, are the end of paganism, we can't just worship nature as the expression of a deity, and imperialism, we cannot achieve absolute power on the material level.
00:34:51.000Well, see, there had been hints in that direction.
00:34:54.000With the Mesopotamians, for example, the Mesopotamians construed their emperor as an avatar of Marduk.
00:35:01.000Okay, so Marduk was a god that had eyes all the way around his head, so he really paid attention, and who spoke magic words.
00:35:08.000And Marduk was also the deity who He transformed Tiamat, the dragon of chaos, into the world, who made the world out of the pieces of the dragon of chaos.
00:35:22.000Very similar idea to the god in Genesis.
00:35:26.000And those ideas are derived from the same geographical region, right?
00:35:30.000So, as far as the Mesopotamians were concerned, the emperor only got to be emperor If he was a good Marduk, that was his claim to sovereignty.
00:35:39.000It was his ability to be an avatar of Marduk.
00:35:42.000So already the idea that the true sovereign should pay attention to everything, that's eyes all the way around the head, and speak the magic and redeeming words of truth, that's a Logos idea, that's already there in the Mesopotamians.
00:35:55.000And that finds arguably its truest expression in the Christian revolution that makes the case That the spirit of voluntary self-sacrifice, the spirit of self-sacrifice voluntarily undertaken in the service of the highest good, is identical to the principle that establishes the order that's good at the beginning of time and forever.
00:36:57.000It means something like, it means the order that's good or very good is predicated on the voluntary acceptance of the necessity of self-sacrifice.
00:37:11.000You know, Erdinger who wrote a lot about Jung, where he says, you'll love this, and I've mentioned it to you before, but it was ages ago, that he talks about, like, here is the behemoth that I have made, and like these William Blake, oh yes, William Blake's illustrations of the Book of Job, Blake that illustrates the behemoth, and the behemoth I do not like, it's even worse than the leviathan, if you ask me, the leviathan, just some serpent down there in the deep, can't press his tongue down.
00:37:39.000It's the giant that the hero often overcomes.
00:37:42.000Certainly not how William Blake they are, mad genius.
00:37:45.000Yeah, well you, with your temperament, you would be more opposed to the Behemoth and the Leviathan because you're more a creature of chaos than degenerate order.
00:37:54.000It's got no skin and you can see all the sinew in its face and its mad staring eyes.
00:37:59.000Elsewhere in this analysis that Erdinger points out, Obviously it's a derivation of Jungian analysis.
00:38:08.000He's saying, and if you can map this onto what we have just said about the requirement for voluntary self-sacrifice, how you have to marry those two points together, like in John 1.
00:38:46.000And in this bit of Erdinger analysis derived from Jung, he says...
00:38:50.000That if we don't be God into being, if we don't make ourselves, in the same way in Galatians 20, I die on the cross with him and it is Christ that is born in me, says Paul.
00:39:02.000If we don't do that, then actually it's almost It's almost like ontologically true.
00:40:16.000The problem with it, if I may criticize something that seems to be almost part of the fabric of our reality, is that you are becoming, you are it.
00:40:24.000When I'm in a constant dialogue with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ now in this moment, like he is here with me, like he is here with me, then the shaman in me yields.
00:40:33.000Now, I would have always thought of a shaman as more powerful than a priest, and I would have always observed froms, and I wonder what you think about this, you know, The prophet lives the word.
00:41:01.000And I guess the reason that you have inevitably, invariably plucked From that new triumvirate of Adler, Freud and Jung.
00:41:10.000Jung is the one that remains in metaphysics, remains in the archetypes, remains in the Red Book, in the beautiful etymology, even within geometry.
00:41:19.000Remember, he opposed Freud because Freud deified sex.
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00:43:31.000If it's nothing, well, then you're a nihilistic house divided amongst itself.
00:43:36.000You know, Father Dave, even though he's a Protestant minister, what I like is he's a church I go to back in the UK. When he's doing Corinthians, when he's doing Paul's letter to Corinthians, like Paul says a lot.
00:43:49.000He has this, I don't know which translation, I guess this is New International Version, he has this idiomatic pic that's so beautiful.
00:44:17.000As much as I also love that there is something profound in power unexpressed, that to know he had that power, but as part of his sacrifice, he did not express that power.
00:44:27.000He went to his death like a criminal, crucified among thieves and murderers, and remained only in dialogue with the Lord, the God, the Father.
00:44:36.000And with those gathered at the foot of the cross, man, I love it.
00:44:45.000You know, when you get into Acts and Paul's letters, you start thinking, something must have gone down for these people to be doing this stuff.
00:44:53.000As much as there was the reification, celebration and glorification of hedonism, Jordan, what was simultaneously done, if I may say...
00:45:06.000I mean, I'm talking about my country and I was like in Canada or in this country where, of course, there is a sort of an evangelical tradition, but like it's sort of like Jesus as if it's the most boring thing ever.
00:45:20.000I don't think Romans 13 should be in there.
00:45:22.000I think it's sort of telling you fundamentally that to love Christ is that you best get ready to die for the highest thing yourself.
00:45:29.000You best get ready that something is happening.
00:45:41.000Yeah, and the banalization, that's a very interesting phenomena.
00:45:44.000You have the reduction of Christ, well, you have the reduction of Christ to compassion, for example, which is not an appropriate reduction.
00:46:18.000The shifting of the veil that I witnessed was real.
00:46:21.000And like when C.S. Lewis writes that at J.P., like when he says, those of us that have seen the shifting of the veil, those of us that know there is more to reality than the material realm, those of us that have glimpsed it, are taken over by a kind of lust.
00:46:35.000And like bodily lust, it has the quality of making all else seem trivial.
00:46:43.000That Christ speaks about in the parable, that any wise man, any wise rich man would sacrifice everything he has to purchase the pearl of great price.
00:46:52.000It's like once you know what's most valuable, everything looks trivial in comparison.
00:46:58.000Because not only did Christ undergo it, you know, Stephen undergoes it, he gets ripped apart, and as he's being pulled apart, Yeah, I'm coming, Jesus!
00:47:05.000And like, Paul, yeah, yeah, I'll do the time.
00:47:19.000You know, like, so what I love about, you know, like, what I'm learning about and loving, like, I can see you, you know, brooding prophet that you are, how much you love it down there in the Old Testament, down there with the Isaiahs and the Jeremiahs and the Kings and the Judges, and gosh, you know, even from a little that I'm learning right now, it's so fascinating.
00:47:34.000But why I love Christ is because I see it, I like the activation.
00:48:10.000Like any decent Christian that I chat to, when I say, like, you know, we chatted about it the other day.
00:48:14.000You know, like, say, John Rich, who cracked me up when he was on your podcast, John Rich, because I like how straightforward he is, and I like how evangelical he is.
00:48:29.000But when I asked John Rich, like, about, you know, hey, how do we parry, like, our Lord's, you know, edict, Love Thy Neighbor, with, like, the sort of edicts and restrictions around licentiousness and e.g.
00:48:40.000homosexuality, he goes, you're a sinner the same as me.
00:49:03.000How would he be carrying on right now?
00:49:05.000They say when he comes again, he comes as a king, rather than, you know, he comes as a king next time, and it's going to be discerning, and we ain't all going to make it.
00:49:12.000But, like, I feel that, you know, that I love the end of the idea of Christ was a nice man, or Christ was compassionate, that Christ is the highest.
00:49:51.000And he separates the wheat from the chaff, and that's discriminating judgment.
00:49:55.000That's actually the manifestation of the sword that turns every which way and is on fire, that guards the pathway to paradise in the story of Adam and Eve, right?
00:50:05.000That's that sword, that nothing gets past that sword that isn't, what would you say, sufficiently That lacks the integrity necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven.
00:50:16.000That's that sword that turns every which way and burns.
00:51:27.000Well, thanks very much for joining me for this conversation with Jordan Peterson.
00:51:31.000Remember, we will be back Monday, streaming live another fantastic show from the wild set of vortices, I've got to learn that word, vortices, that is the United States of America in this weird pre-election ongoing hurricane.
00:51:45.000Let me know in the comments and chat what you thought about this chat with JP, and I'll see you on Monday, usual time, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.