Trump and Harris are less than 30 minutes away from the first presidential debate, and all eyes are on them. What will they say about the Iran crisis, the Ukraine crisis, and the conflict in the Middle East? And what will they do about immigration and the deportation crisis? All that and much more on ABC News Live with John Berman and Rachel Chumash, wherever you get your news. Stay tuned for our special segments throughout the night, and don t forget to check out our new segment, The Other Side Of, where we'll be breaking down the latest news and breaking it all down for you! To find a list of our sponsors and show-related promo codes, go to gimlet.fm/OurAdvertisers Use the promo code: CRITICAL for 15% off your first purchase when you enter the discount code CRITIC15 when you place an order of $35 or more. We'll be giving out $5 or more when the offer ends on Nov. 19th. Our first offer is $99 or more than $150, and we'll give you an ad-free version of the entire show for your first month of the show. Our second offer is also available for free when you sign up and review the ad is in full-service. You'll get 10% off the entire service, plus two-day shipping, plus a free VIP membership when you get the offer is available for two months, and two-week shipping starts starting, plus an additional $10/place gets you get VIP access to the VIP discount starts starting at $99/place get $24/place, VIP access gets $19/place they get a choice of $39/choice of VIP access, and they get $4/choice, they also get $5/place to watch the VIP access starts get $29/place she gets VIP access. And they get it all get $49/place and they'll get a VIP discount, they'll also get an ad on Prime Minister and 1st place get $1st place and 2/MBPRist and 2MBORTER and 1/MBORRION???? Thanks for listening to the show? Thank you for listening and supporting the show, John and Rachel, Rachel? Rachel, Alena, Rachel, Josefina, Aleksandra, Sr., Rachel, Sr. & Rachel, Jr. Thanks so much for listening? Music:
00:06:58.000... approach toward immigration and that is because usually the Democrats promised
00:07:05.000immigration reform and Latinos were attracted to that promise but that
00:07:08.000promise never materialized Now they feel that the recent arrivals hurts not only their image, but they feel that it is unfair that they are getting paroled.
00:07:17.000Many of them are getting work permits while there are still millions of undocumented People here living in this country that are either married to U.S.
00:07:26.000citizens or have children that are U.S.
00:07:28.000born, that have been waiting for decades, also the dreamers.
00:07:32.000And that's the one thing that I think that they need to take into consideration.
00:07:36.000One thing that might hurt President Trump is the mass deportations.
00:07:40.000Latinos are not in favor of mass deportations.
00:12:35.000Very closely, Martha, and a former longtime advisor for Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu told me that he's going to be watching very closely for what former President Trump has to say about Iran.
00:12:45.000He said, for Netanyahu, both Harris and Trump are known quantities, but the advisor telling me that for Netanyahu, a Trump presidency would be a dream come true, especially because of the mounting scrutiny that Netanyahu has been under Increasing allegations that he's been dragging his feet on this hostage deal and ceasefire, mounting even further after the release of that video, showing the tunnel in which those six hostages were executed, including American Hirsch Goldberg Pollen.
00:13:15.000And if you ask Israelis and Palestinians what they're looking for from Vice President Harris, they're likely to say they want to know what she has to offer that is different from what the Biden administration has been doing the past several months.
00:13:26.000Despite massive efforts, they've promised that a deal is around the corner, but it remains elusive.
00:13:32.000And it's going to be a lot easier of a sell for the former president who's ever faced a crisis like this, but he's likely going to say and repeat what he said in the past that if he were president, October 7th would never have happened.
00:13:44.000If he were president, he would have been able to have strong-armed Hamas and Netanyahu into a ceasefire in a hostage deal that would have saved the lives of many Palestinians and, of course, those hostages, Martha.
00:13:55.000A lot of challenges about that tonight for sure, Matt.
00:14:28.000I mean, overnight Ukraine launching one of its biggest drone attacks on Russia since the start of this war.
00:14:34.000drones were shot down the Moscow region over a hundred and forty fired into
00:14:38.000Russia an apartment block here to woman killed and one of Moscow's airports was
00:14:42.000also struck what we've seen is Ukraine repeatedly trying to target Russia in
00:14:47.000attempt to try and bring the war home to the Kremlin and to the Russian people
00:14:50.000this is partly because they've been given restrictions on the weapons have
00:14:54.000been supplied by the United States and others and what Ukraine is hoping is
00:14:58.000that those restrictions are going to be lifted US Secretary of State Antony
00:15:01.000Blinken is going to come here to Kiev this week speaking London he confirmed
00:15:05.000that Iran has now transferred ballistic missiles to Russia He's expecting that those are going to be used in the coming weeks.
00:15:12.000He describes this also as a critical moment for Ukraine.
00:15:15.000So all eyes are going to be on tonight's presidential debate.
00:15:17.000Even, apparently, President Zelensky expected to tune in.
00:15:20.000And the outcome, I think, of this presidential debate is going to be critical to the outcome of Ukraine's defense against Russia's invasion.
00:16:55.000She has been much more forceful in speaking out about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, stressing, yes, of course, Israel has a right to defend itself, but saying Palestinians also have the right to dignity, security, and freedom.
00:17:06.000Now, policy-wise, she is largely vowing to continue the policies of the Biden administration, but there is no question, on this issue, she is facing the most pressure from Democratic voters.
00:17:15.000I've been at nearly every Harris rally so far, and at almost every one, she is interrupted by protesters.
00:17:21.000Eager to make their voices heard on it.
00:26:57.000So what we're going to do is we're going to watch the debate together, sometimes in bafflement, sometimes in awe, and let us know what you lot think.
00:27:05.000While you're watching along with us, I would like to say exclusively on Rumble, but of course the debate itself will be being widely streamed, I imagine, on ABC with what amounts to astonishing amounts of casual, easy propaganda.
00:27:23.000A few things that you have to kind of check yourself around.
00:27:29.000No one's talking about Covid and what happened in the pandemic and how extraordinary it was.
00:27:34.000No one is talking about the various terrifying conflicts that are taking place around the world.
00:27:40.000I'm saying no one, I mean no one in media.
00:27:43.000And if you watched, I don't know if you've seen any of Eric Weinstein's performances, appearances lately, it's like he's just saying like, you know, we're Edging towards thermonuclear war as if it's ain't no thing.
00:28:05.000Um, is the, uh, can we put the, well, let's have, uh, ABC's content in this small in, in pip in the small screen, please guys for the output and this, or let's have it on at all times.
00:28:17.000And actually this, and let's go to it now with audio.
00:31:44.000instilling her as a young lady. Look, she is steady on her feet, still in her resolve, and tonight she should talk to
00:31:51.000the American people. Sit in their living rooms. Sit at their kitchen table. Look, look, look, look. That'd be unnerving.
00:31:58.000Ideas that I want to share with you. There's so much that we have done together over the last four years. But here's
00:32:03.000what I think we can do together over the next four years.
00:32:06.000Be positive in our approach and really remind the American people that we don't want to go back to the chaos and the confusion, the disaster that made, of course, the American people go out in droves in 2020 to fire the former president.
00:32:20.000Say, I want to be a president that lead all Americans.
00:34:22.000She's in the spotlight, Donald Trump doesn't have a lot to lose.
00:34:27.000Everything else is like, we don't want more chaos and danger and madness.
00:34:31.000And the other thing I enjoyed about watching Eric Weinstein was when he said, like, where's Joe Biden gone?
00:34:38.000Like, has he just been sort of extracted from office?
00:34:41.000When you take a step back, you recognize that what's being normalized is staggering.
00:34:47.000But I also think that, just like he did in the first debate against Joe Biden, I think the formula here... Previous is a Republican, right?
00:35:24.000We'll be doing this from a British perspective, but also I'm explaining American politics to my dog.
00:35:30.000Now what happens in American politics, Bear, Unlike British or canine politics, is the legacy media roots for one side.
00:35:38.000And because that party once had better values in, say, I don't know, the 1960s, we all pretend it's not been captured by the military-industrial complex and pharmaceutical industry.
00:42:51.000been a disaster for people for the middle class but for every class on top
00:42:55.000of that we have millions of people pouring into our country from all
00:42:59.000straightened with immigration institutions and insane asylum and
00:43:03.000they're coming in and they're taking jobs that are occupied right now in a
00:43:08.000way if they can go straight from a mental institution into a steady job
00:43:11.000you've got to say they're doing good work at the institution and you see
00:43:14.000what's happening you see what's happening with towns throughout the
00:43:17.000United States you look at Springfield Ohio you look at Aurora in Colorado they
00:43:23.000are taking over the towns they're taking over buildings they're going in violently
00:43:27.000these are the people that she and I'll just say, this is my first impression, that Kamala attempts to evoke a folksy, homey, homespun feel from her own childhood.
00:43:38.000We had this friend who ran a small business and I'm gonna support ordinary people.
00:43:43.000This is sort of like an optimistic but vague offering.
00:43:47.000Trump is able to offer you a sort of this depiction of the dystopia that we feel like we're experiencing.
00:43:59.000Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression.
00:44:05.000Donald Trump left us the worst public health epidemic in a century.
00:44:11.000Donald Trump left us the worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.
00:44:19.000And what we have done is clean up Donald Trump's mess.
00:44:22.000What we have done and what I intend to do is build on what we know are the aspirations and the hopes of the American people.
00:44:29.000But I'm going to tell you on this debate tonight, you're going to hear from the same old tired playbook.
00:44:35.000A bunch of lies, grievances, and name-calling.
00:44:38.000What you're going to hear tonight is a detailed and dangerous plan called Project 2025 that the former president intends on implementing if he were elected again.
00:44:50.000I believe very strongly that the American people want a president who understands the importance of bringing us together, knowing we have so much more in common than what separates us, And I pledge to you to be a president for all Americans.
00:45:04.000President Trump will give you a minute here to respond.
00:45:06.000Number one, I have nothing to do, as you know, and as she knows better than anyone, I have nothing to do with Project 2025.
00:46:25.000And when you look at his economic plan, it's all about tax breaks for the richest people.
00:46:30.000I am offering what I describe as an opportunity economy, and the best economists in our country, if not the world, have reviewed our relative plans for the future of America.
00:46:43.000What Goldman Sachs has said is that Donald Trump's plan would make the economy worse, mine would strengthen the economy.
00:46:50.000What the Wharton School has said is Donald Trump's plan Would actually explode the deficit.
00:46:58.00016 Nobel laureates have described his economic plan as something that would increase inflation and by the middle of next year would invite a recession.
00:47:08.000You just have to look at where we are and where we stand on the issues.
00:47:12.000And I'd invite you to know that Donald Trump actually has no plan for you because he is
00:47:17.000more interested in defending himself than he is in looking out for you.
00:48:03.000Mr. President, I do want to drill down on something you both brought up.
00:48:06.000The Vice President brought up your tariffs.
00:48:09.000You responded, and let's drill down on this, because your plan is what she calls essentially a national sales tax.
00:48:15.000Your proposal calls for tariffs, as you pointed out here, on foreign imports across the board.
00:48:19.000You recently said that you might double your plan, imposing tariffs up to 20% on goods coming into this country.
00:48:25.000As you know, many economists say that with tariffs at that level, costs are then passed on to the consumer.
00:48:30.000Vice President Harris has argued it'll mean higher prices on gas, food, clothing, medication, arguing it costs the typical family nearly $4,000 a year.
00:48:39.000Do you believe Americans can afford higher prices because of tariffs?
00:48:42.000They're not going to have higher prices.
00:48:44.000What's going to happen, who's going to have higher prices, is China and all of the countries that have been ripping us off for years.
00:48:51.000I charge, I was the only president ever China was paying us hundreds of billions of dollars and so were other countries and you know if she doesn't like him they should have gone out and they should have immediately cut the tariffs but those tariffs are there three and a half years now under their administration.
00:49:07.000We are going to take in billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars.
00:49:13.000I had no inflation, virtually no inflation.
00:49:16.000They had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never
00:49:21.000People can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else.
00:49:26.000The people of our country are absolutely dying with what they've done.
00:49:31.000They've destroyed the economy and all you have to do is look at a poll.
00:49:34.000The polls say 80 and 85 and even 90 percent that the Trump economy was great that their economy was terrible.
00:49:42.000Vice President Harris I do want to ask for your response and you heard what the president said there because the Biden administration did keep a number of the Trump tariffs in place so how do you respond?
00:49:51.000Well, let's be clear that the Trump administration resulted in a trade deficit, one of the highest we've ever seen in the history of America.
00:50:01.000You want to talk about his deal with China, what he ended up doing is under Donald Trump's presidency, he ended up selling American chips to China.
00:50:12.000To help them improve and modernize their military basically sold us out when a policy about China should be in making sure the United States of America wins the competition for the 21st century.
00:50:26.000Which means focusing on the details of what that requires.
00:50:30.000Focusing on relationships with our allies.
00:50:32.000Focusing on investing in American-based technology so that we win the race on AI, on quantum computing.
00:50:40.000Focusing on what we need to do to support America's workforce so that we don't end up having, on the short end of the stick, in terms of workers' rights.
00:50:50.000But what Donald Trump did, let's talk about this, with COVID, is he actually thanked President Xi for what he did during COVID.
00:51:43.000Her father is a Marxist professor in economics, and he taught her well.
00:51:48.000But when you look at what she's done to our country, and when you look at these millions and millions of people that are pouring into our country monthly, where it's, I believe, 21 million people, not the 15 that people say, and I think it's a lot higher than the 21, that's bigger than New York State pouring in.
00:52:05.000And just look at what they're doing to our country.
00:52:12.000You know, you mentioned before, we'll talk about immigration later.
00:52:15.000Well, bad immigration is the worst thing that can happen to our economy.
00:52:19.000They have, and she has, destroyed our country with policy that's insane.
00:52:26.000Almost policy that you'd say they have to hate our country.
00:52:31.000I want to turn to the issue of abortion.
00:52:33.000President Trump, you've often touted that you were able to kill Roe v. Wade last year.
00:52:38.000You said that you were proud to be the most pro-life president in American history.
00:52:43.000Then last month, you said that your administration would be great for women and their reproductive rights.
00:52:48.000In your home state of Florida, you surprised many with regard to your six-week abortion ban because you initially had said that it was too short.
00:52:55.000And you said, quote, I'm going to be voting that we need More than six weeks.
00:52:59.000But then, the very next day, you reversed course and said you would vote to support the six-week ban.
00:53:05.000Vice President Harris says that women shouldn't trust you on the issue of abortion because you've changed your position so many times.
00:54:35.000But we were able to get it, and now states are voting on it.
00:54:39.000And for the first time, you're going to see—look, this is an issue that's torn our country apart for 52 years.
00:54:47.000Every legal scholar, every Democrat, every Republican, liberal, conservative, they all wanted this issue to be brought back to the states where the people could vote.
00:55:37.000Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade.
00:56:19.000And one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree.
00:56:25.000The government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.
00:56:32.000I have talked with women around our country.
00:56:35.000You want to talk about this is what people wanted?
00:56:38.000Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot.
00:57:05.000And I pledge to you, when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of Roe v. Wade as President of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law.
00:57:18.000But understand, if Donald Trump were to be re-elected, He will sign a national abortion ban.
00:57:24.000Understand in his project 2025, there would be a national abortion, a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages.
00:57:33.000I think the American people believe that certain freedoms, in particular the freedom to make decisions about one's own body, should not be made by the government.
00:57:48.000I'm not signing a ban and there's no reason to sign a ban because we've gotten what everybody wanted.
00:57:54.000Democrats, Republicans and everybody else and every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back into the states and the states are voting and it may take a little time But for 52 years, this issue has torn our country apart.
00:58:10.000And they wanted it back in the states.
00:58:12.000And I did something that nobody thought was possible.
00:58:20.000And as far as the abortion ban, no, I'm not in favor of abortion ban, but it doesn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the states.
00:58:28.000Would you veto a national abortion ban if it came to your desk?
00:58:31.000Well, I won't have to because, again, two things.
00:58:34.000Number one, she said she'll go back to Congress.
00:58:56.000And then her, I think probably her boss, if you call him a boss, he spends all his time on the beach.
00:59:03.000But look, Her boss went out and said, we'll do it again, we'll do it a different way.
00:59:07.000And he went out, got rejected again by the Supreme Court.
00:59:10.000So all these students got taunted with this whole thing about, this whole idea.
00:59:15.000And how unfair that would have been, part of the reason they lost, to the millions and millions of people that had to pay off their student loans.
01:00:05.000But the fact is that for years they wanted to get it out of Congress and out of the federal government.
01:00:09.000And we did something that everybody said couldn't be done.
01:00:12.000And now you have a vote of the people on abortion.
01:00:15.000Vice President Harris, I want to give you your time to respond, but I do want to ask, would you support any restrictions on a woman's right to an abortion?
01:00:22.000I absolutely support reinstating the protections of Roe v. Wade, and as you rightly mentioned, nowhere in America Is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion.
01:00:57.000Working people, working women, who are working one or two jobs, who can barely afford child care as it is, have to travel to another state to get on a plane sitting next to strangers to go and get the health care she needs.
01:01:15.000Barely can afford to do it, and what you are putting her through is unconscionable.
01:01:21.000And the people of America have not—the majority of Americans believe in a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, and that is why in every state where this issue has been on the ballot, in red and blue states both, the people of America have voted for freedom.
01:01:41.000I have been a leader on IVF, which is fertilization.
01:01:49.000In fact, when they got a very negative decision on IVF from the Alabama courts, I saw the people of Alabama and the legislature two days later voted it in.
01:02:39.000We're going to turn now to immigration and border security.
01:02:42.000We know it's an issue that's important to Republicans, Democrats, voters across the board in this country.
01:02:47.000Vice President Harris, you were tasked by President Biden with getting to the root causes of migration from Central America.
01:02:53.000We know that illegal border crossings reached a record high in the Biden administration.
01:02:57.000This past June, President Biden imposed tough new asylum restrictions.
01:03:01.000We know the numbers since then have dropped significantly.
01:03:04.000But my question to you tonight is why did the administration wait until six months before the election to act?
01:03:10.000And would you have done anything differently for President Biden on this?
01:03:13.000So I'm the only person on this stage who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings.
01:03:23.000And let me say that the United States Congress, including some of the most conservative members of the United States Senate, came up with a border security bill which I supported.
01:03:34.000And that bill would have put 1,500 more border agents on the border to help those folks who are working there right now over time trying to do their job.
01:03:44.000It would have allowed us to stem the flow of fentanyl coming into the United States.
01:03:49.000I know there are so many families watching tonight who have been personally affected.
01:03:53.000By the surge of fentanyl in our country.
01:03:56.000That bill would have put more resources to allow us to prosecute transnational criminal organizations for trafficking in guns, drugs, and human beings.
01:04:04.000But you know what happened to that bill?
01:04:07.000Donald Trump got on the phone, called up some folks in Congress, and said, kill the bill.
01:04:13.000Because he'd prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem.
01:04:18.000And understand, this comes at a time where the people of our country actually need a leader who engages in solutions, who actually addresses the problems at hand.
01:04:32.000But what we have in the former president is someone who would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem.
01:04:37.000And I'll tell you something, he's going to talk about immigration a lot tonight, even when it's not the subject that is being raised.
01:04:43.000And I'm going to actually do something really unusual, and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies, because it's a really interesting thing to watch.
01:04:51.000You will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter.
01:04:57.000He will talk about when mills cause cancer.
01:05:00.000And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early, out of exhaustion and boredom.
01:05:06.000And I will tell you, the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you.
01:05:10.000You will not hear him talk about your needs, your dreams, and your desires.
01:05:15.000And I'll tell you, I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first.
01:05:25.000Let me just ask though, why did you try to kill that bill, and successfully so, that would have put thousands of additional agents and officers on the board?
01:05:32.000First let me respond is to the rallies.
01:05:59.000And it happened three and a half years ago.
01:06:01.000And what's going on here, you're going to end up in World War III, just to go into another subject.
01:06:07.000What they have done to our country by allowing these millions and millions of people to come into our country and look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States.
01:06:17.000And a lot of towns don't want to talk.
01:06:18.000It's not going to be Aurora or Springfield.
01:06:20.000A lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it.
01:06:24.000In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in.
01:07:05.000You bring up Springfield, Ohio, and ABC News did reach out to the city manager there.
01:07:10.000He told us there had been no credible reports of specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community.
01:07:44.000You know, this is I think one of the reasons why in this election I actually have the endorsement of 200 Republicans who have formally worked with President Bush, Mitt Romney, as well as numerous cats and dogs.
01:08:01.000Former Vice President Dick Cheney and Congressmember Liz Cheney.
01:08:06.000And if you want to really know the inside track on who the former president is, if he didn't make it clear already, just ask people who have worked with him.
01:08:16.000His former Chief of Staff, a four-star general, has said he has contempt for the Constitution of the United States.
01:08:23.000His former National Security Advisor has said he is dangerous and unfit.
01:08:27.000I think reveling in the Bush-Cheney endorsements, former Bush staffers and the Cheney family is where you see how the Democratic Party is repoed as a party of war.
01:08:43.000And I wonder if the subject of war will come up.
01:08:48.000you a quick minute to respond. Thank you because when I hear that, see I'm a
01:08:53.000different kind of a person. I fired most of those people, not so graciously. They
01:08:58.000did bad things or a bad job. I fired them. They never fired one person. They didn't
01:09:04.000fire anybody having to do with Afghanistan and the Taliban and the 13
01:09:07.000people who were just killed, viciously and violently killed.
01:09:13.000And I got to know the parents and the family.
01:09:15.000They didn't fire—they should have fired all those generals, all those top people, because that was one of the most incompetently handled situations anybody has ever seen.
01:09:25.000So, when somebody does a bad job, I fire them.
01:10:05.000It was what you wanted to talk about earlier, so let's get back to your deportation proposal that the Vice President has reacted to as well.
01:10:13.000President Trump, you call this the largest domestic deportation operation in the history of our country.
01:10:18.000You say you would use the National Guard.
01:10:19.000You say if things get out of control, you'd have no problem using the U.S.
01:10:47.000They allowed people to come in, drug dealers, to come into our country, and they're now in the United States and told by their countries, like Venezuela, don't ever come back or we're going to kill you.
01:10:59.000Do you know that crime in Venezuela and crime in countries all over the world is way down?
01:12:11.000I'll let you respond, Vice President Harris.
01:12:12.000Well, I think this is so rich, coming from someone who has been prosecuted.
01:12:18.000for national security crimes, economic crimes, election interference, has been found liable for sexual assault, and his next big court appearance is in November at his own criminal sentencing.
01:12:35.000And let's be clear, where each person stands on the issue of what is important about respect for the rule of law and respect for law enforcement.
01:12:45.000The former vice president called for defunding federal law enforcement, 45,000 agents, get this, on the day after he was arraigned on 34 felony counts.
01:12:57.000So let's talk about what is important in this race.
01:13:00.000It is important that we move forward, that we turn the page on this same old tired rhetoric and address the needs of the American people.
01:13:11.000Address what we need to do about the housing shortage, which I have a plan for.
01:13:16.000Address what we must do to support our small businesses.
01:13:20.000Address bringing down the price of groceries.
01:13:23.000Frankly, the American people are exhausted with this same old tired playbook.
01:14:32.000A really quick response here, Vice President Harris, on this notion of weaponization of the Justice Department.
01:14:37.000Well, let's talk about extreme and understand the context in which this election in 2024 is taking place.
01:14:43.000The United States Supreme Court recently ruled that the former president would essentially be immune from any misconduct if he were to enter the White House again.
01:14:54.000Understand, this is someone who has openly said he would terminate, I'm quoting, terminate the Constitution of the United States.
01:15:02.000That he would weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies.
01:15:07.000Someone who has openly expressed disdain for members of our military.
01:15:13.000Understand what it would mean if Donald Trump were back in the White House
01:16:26.000I have not banned fracking as Vice President of the United States.
01:16:29.000And in fact, I was the tie-breaking vote on the Inflation Reduction Act, which opened new leases for fracking.
01:16:37.000My position is that we have got to invest in diverse sources of energy so we reduce our reliance on foreign oil.
01:16:46.000We have had the largest increase in domestic oil production in history because of an approach that recognizes that we cannot over rely on foreign oil.
01:16:59.000As it relates to my values, let me tell you, I grew up a middle class kid raised by a hardworking mother.
01:17:05.000Who worked and saved and was able to buy our first home when I was a teenager.
01:17:11.000The values I bring to the importance of home ownership knowing not everybody got handed 400 million dollars on a silver platter and then filed bankruptcy six times.
01:17:21.000It's a value that I bring to my work to say we are going to work with the private sector and home builders to increase 3 million homes, increase by 3 million homes by the end of my first term.
01:17:32.000My work that is related to having a friend when I was in high school who was sexually assaulted by her stepfather.
01:17:39.000And my focus then on protecting women and children from violent crime is based on a value that is deeply grounded in the importance of standing up for those who are most vulnerable.
01:17:50.000My work that is about protecting Social Security and Medicare is based on long-standing work that I have done protecting seniors from scams.
01:18:00.000Didn't protect poor Joe Biden from scams!
01:18:04.000That's one senior who's damned to have his job.
01:18:54.000She gave all that stuff up very wrongly very horribly and everybody's laughing at it okay they're all laughing at it she gave up at least 12 and probably 14 or 15 different policies like she was big on defund the police in minnesota she went out wait a minute i'm talking now if you don't mind please does that sound familiar she went out
01:19:22.000...in Minnesota and wanted to let criminals that killed people, that burned down Minneapolis, she went out and raised money to get them out of jail.
01:19:31.000She did things that nobody would ever think of.
01:19:34.000Now she wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in prison.
01:20:29.000But if she won the election the day after that election, They'll go back to destroying our country and oil will be dead, fossil fuel will be dead.
01:20:37.000We'll go back to windmills and we'll go back to solar, where they need a whole desert to get some energy to come out of.
01:20:57.000We have an election in just 56 days and I want to talk about the peaceful transfer of power, which of course we all know is a cornerstone of our democracy and the role of a president in a moment of crisis.
01:21:08.000Mr. President, on January 6th you told your supporters to march to the Capitol.
01:21:11.000You said you would be right there with them.
01:21:13.000The country and the world saw what played out at the Capitol that that day, the officers coming under attack. Aides in the
01:21:19.000West Wing say you watched it unfold on television off the Oval Office. You did send out
01:21:23.000tweets, but it was more than two hours before you sent out that video message telling
01:21:27.000your supporters to go home. Is there anything you regret about what you did on that day?
01:21:33.000You just said a thing that isn't covered.
01:25:14.000And if that was a bridge too far for you, well, there is a place in our campaign for you to stand.
01:25:22.000For country to stand for our democracy, to stand for rule of law, and to end the chaos, and to end the approach that is about attacking the foundations of our democracy because you don't like the outcome.
01:25:39.000And be clear, on that point, Donald Trump, the candidate, had said in this election there will be a bloodbath if this and the outcome of this election is not to his liking.
01:26:41.000And I'll tell you what I would do, and I would be very proud to do it.
01:26:45.000I would say we would both leave this debate right now.
01:26:48.000I'd like to see her go down To Washington D.C.
01:26:52.000during this debate, because we're wasting a lot of time, go down to—because she's been so bad, it's so ridiculous—go down to Washington D.C.
01:26:59.000and let her sign a bill to close up the border, because they have the right to do it.
01:27:06.000The president of the United States, you'll get him out of bed, you'll wake him up at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, you'll say, come on, come on down to the office, let's sign a bill.
01:27:14.000If he signs a bill that the The border is closed.
01:27:17.000All he has to do is say it to the border patrol, who are phenomenal.
01:27:21.000If they do that, the border is closed.
01:27:23.000Those people are killing many people, unlike J6.
01:27:28.000I do want to focus on this next issue to both of you, because it really brings us this into focus.
01:27:32.000Truth in these times that we're living in.
01:27:35.000Mr. President, for three and a half years after you lost the 2020 election, you repeatedly falsely claimed that you won, many times saying you won in a landslide.
01:27:44.000In the past couple of weeks leading up to this debate, you have said, quote, you lost by a whisker, that you, quote, didn't quite make it, that you came up a little bit short.
01:28:33.000And a lot of these illegal immigrants coming in, they're trying to get them to vote.
01:28:37.000They can't even speak English, they don't even know what country they're in practically, and these people are trying to get them to vote.
01:28:43.000And that's why they're allowing them to come into our country.
01:28:46.000I did watch all of these pieces of video.
01:28:49.000I didn't detect the sarcasm, lost by a whisker, we didn't quite make it.
01:28:52.000And we should just point out here as clarification, and you know this, you and your allies, 60 cases in front of many judges, many of them Republican.
01:29:14.000If you look at the facts, and I'd love to have you do a special on it.
01:29:18.000I'll show you Georgia, and I'll show you Wisconsin, and I'll show you Pennsylvania, and I'll show you... We have so many facts and statistics.
01:31:02.000And when you then talk in this way in a presidential debate and deny what over and over again are court cases you have lost because you did in fact lose that election, it leads one to believe that perhaps we do not have in the candidate to my right the temperament Or the ability to not be confused about fact.
01:31:28.000That's deeply troubling and the American people deserve better.
01:31:33.000I'll give you one minute to respond, Mr. President.
01:31:34.000Let me just tell you about world leaders.
01:31:36.000Viktor Orban, one of the most respected men.
01:32:28.000He said the most respected, most feared person is Donald Trump.
01:32:33.000We had no problems when Trump was president.
01:32:36.000But when this weak, pathetic man that you saw at a debate just a few months ago, that if he weren't in that debate, he'd be running instead of her.
01:34:25.000What we know is that this war must end.
01:34:29.000It must end immediately and the way it will end is we need a ceasefire deal and we need the hostages out.
01:34:37.000And so we will continue to work around the clock on that.
01:34:41.000Work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two-state solution.
01:34:48.000And in that solution, there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel, and an equal measure for the Palestinians.
01:34:56.000But the one thing I will assure you always, I will always give Israel the ability to defend itself, in particular as it relates to Iran, and any threat that Iran and its proxies pose to Israel.
01:35:10.000But we must have a two-state solution where we can rebuild Gaza, where the Palestinians have security, self-determination, and the dignity they so rightly deserve.
01:35:21.000President Trump, how would you negotiate with Netanyahu and also Hamas in order to get the hostages out and prevent the killing of more innocent civilians in Gaza?
01:35:31.000If I were president, it would have never started.
01:35:34.000If I were president, Russia would have never, ever—I know Putin very well—it would have never—and there was no threat of it either, by the way, for four years—have gone into Ukraine and killed millions of people when you added up.
01:35:48.000Far worse than people understand what's going on over there.
01:35:51.000But when she mentions about Israel, all of a sudden, she hates Israel.
01:35:56.000She wouldn't even meet With Netanyahu, when he went to Congress to make a very important speech, she refused to be there because she was at a sorority party of hers.
01:36:05.000She wanted to go to the sorority party.
01:37:37.000He's trying to, again, divide and distract from the reality, which is it is very well known that Donald Trump is weak and wrong on national security and foreign policy.
01:37:49.000It is well known that he admires dictators He wants to be a dictator on day one, according to himself.
01:37:57.000It is well known that he said of Putin that he can do whatever the hell he wants and go into Ukraine.
01:38:06.000It is well known that he said when Russia went into Ukraine, it was brilliant.
01:38:12.000It is well known he exchanged love letters with Kim Jong-un.
01:38:17.000And it is absolutely well known that these dictators and autocrats are rooting for you to be president again because they're so clear they can manipulate you with flattery and favors.
01:38:32.000And that is why So many military leaders who you have worked with have told me you are a disgrace.
01:38:40.000That is why we understand that we have to have a president who is not consistently weak and wrong on national security, including the importance of upholding and respecting in highest regard our military.
01:38:59.000That's weak on national security by allowing every nation, last month for the year, 168 different countries sending people into our country.
01:39:30.000Why does Biden go in and kill the Keystone Pipeline and approve the single biggest deal that Russia's ever made, Nord Stream 2, the biggest pipeline anywhere in the world going to Germany and all over Europe?
01:39:42.000Because they're weak and they're ineffective.
01:39:44.000And Biden, by the way, gets paid a lot of money.
01:39:57.000Okay, it's our first commercial break.
01:40:04.000I've sensed so far that this is one of those debates where if you're watching this and you've got a pro-democratic feed on your X timeline, for example, you'll be seeing pro-Kamala commentary, endorsements of her stance and style, and the opposite is true, of course, if you're in a Republican and Trump-oriented feed.
01:40:29.000It's very difficult, isn't it, to not notice that you're held within a framework.
01:40:34.000The screen of the television perfectly operates as a kind of live, real-time, over-teen window.
01:40:40.000These are the questions that get asked.
01:40:41.000These are the questions that don't get asked.
01:40:44.000And I feel that Gareth, my sort of sense is that we've not seen like the kind of vintage 2016 Trump like hitting out zingers and neither have we seen the kind of risible, ridiculous Kamala.
01:40:59.000But I'm left with the idea that what you get with Kamala Harris is someone that stays within very prescriptive lines and Trump sort of Trust his intuitive sense of what makes people angry.
01:41:13.000What doesn't get bought in or what doesn't seem enough of the forefront to me is that Kamala Harris is in office, has been in office for the last four years, so presenting herself as a change candidate doesn't make sense.
01:41:26.000On that basis, and when it comes to something like her transition and change in policies, it's very difficult to hold that.
01:41:33.000And I think that's why she returns continually to kind of folksy, when I was a kid I did this, I believe in that.
01:41:40.000When you sort of touch upon the sort of terrifying issues of global war and massacre and death, that's where the sort of homilies start to sound a little weak.
01:41:51.000Yeah, I mean I think She's obviously used scaremongering against Trump when actually I really think Trump has had the opportunity to go for her in ways that he hasn't.
01:42:03.000As you say when you talk about The global wars that are going on at the moment that, you know, the Biden administration has had a huge hand in.
01:42:12.000And Trump hasn't really gone for that at all.
01:42:14.000There was other two immigration and Kamala's flip-flopped policies.
01:43:09.000Because I suppose, like, in that we were watching the visible and evident decline of a person whose atrophy and inability perfectly reveals what people in our spaces believe.
01:43:22.000Oh, these kind of puppets, these figures.
01:43:25.000I suppose in Kamala Harris you have a puppet that is better at rendering the statements and positions of what we would broadly describe as a static globalist set of institutions.
01:43:46.000Some of us wonder what the emotional essence that's driving both candidates is.
01:43:53.000With Kamala Harris, when she's on the subject of abortion, she's able to appeal to femininity and the sadness and difficulties that are wrapped up in that issue.
01:44:04.000and with Trump you get the essence of the anger and desperation that people feel in
01:44:10.000a country in decline and a set of institutions that are in decline.
01:44:16.000What I wonder is, do you lot in the chat feel that you're getting the Trump that's so beautifully
01:45:36.000It's so much worse than the numbers that you're getting, which are fake numbers.
01:45:40.000Look, We're in for 250 billion or more because they don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done than we are.
01:45:52.000They're in for 150 billion dollars less because Biden and you don't have the courage to ask Europe like I did with NATO.
01:46:01.000They paid billions and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars when I said either you pay up or we're not going to protect you anymore.
01:46:08.000So that's maybe one of the reasons that are Like me as much as they like weak people.
01:46:12.000But you take a look at what's happening.
01:48:02.000I want to take this to Vice President Harris.
01:48:05.000I want to get your thoughts on support for Ukraine in this moment, but also as commander in chief, if elected, how would you deal with Vladimir Putin?
01:48:14.000And would it be any different from what we're seeing from President Biden?
01:48:17.000Well, first of all, it's important to remind the former president you're not running against Joe Biden, you're running against me.
01:48:25.000I believe the reason that Donald Trump says that this war would be over within 24 hours is because he would just give it up.
01:48:32.000And that's not who we are as Americans.
01:49:13.000And because of our support, because of the air defense, the ammunition, the artillery, the Javelins, the Abrams tanks that we have provided, Ukraine stands as an independent and free country.
01:49:26.000If Donald Trump were president, Putin would be sitting in Kiev right now.
01:49:31.000And understand what that would mean, because Putin's agenda is not just about Ukraine.
01:49:37.000Understand why the European allies and our NATO allies are so thankful that you are no longer president, and that we understand the importance of the greatest military alliance the world has ever known, which is NATO.
01:49:52.000And what we have done to preserve the ability of Zelensky and the Ukrainians to fight for their independence.
01:49:59.000Otherwise, Putin would be sitting in Kiev with his eyes on the rest of Europe, starting with Poland.
01:50:05.000And why don't you tell the 800,000 Polish-Americans right here in Pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch.
01:52:05.000When I went to meet with President Zelensky, I've now met with him over five times.
01:52:10.000The reality is it has been about standing as America always should.
01:52:15.000As a leader upholding international rules and norms.
01:52:20.000As a leader who shows strength understanding that the alliances we have around the world are dependent on our ability to look out for our friends and not favor our enemies because you adore strongmen instead of caring about democracy.
01:52:39.000And that is very much what is at stake here.
01:52:42.000The President of the United States is Commander-in-Chief and the American people have a right to rely on a president who understands the significance of America's role and responsibility in terms of ensuring that there is stability and ensuring we stand up for our principles and not sell them for the benefit of personal flattery.
01:53:07.000We've talked about Ukraine and Vladimir Putin.
01:53:27.000For years, we were paying almost all of NATO.
01:53:30.000We were being ripped off by European nations, both on trade and on NATO.
01:53:35.000I got them to pay up by saying, one of the statements you made before, if you don't pay, we're not going to protect you, otherwise we would have never gotten it.
01:53:43.000He said it was one of the most incredible jobs that he's ever seen done.
01:53:49.000It came up in the first hour of the debate, and we witnessed a poignant moment today on Capitol Hill, honoring the soldiers who died in the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan.
01:53:57.000I do want to ask the Vice President, Do you believe you bear any responsibility in the way that withdrawal played out?
01:54:04.000Well, I will tell you, I agreed with President Biden's decision to pull out of Afghanistan.
01:54:09.000Four presidents said they would, and Joe Biden did.
01:54:13.000And as a result, America's taxpayers are not paying the $300 million a day we were paying for that endless war.
01:54:21.000And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world the first time this century.
01:54:33.000But let's understand how we got to where we are.
01:54:36.000Donald Trump, when he was president, negotiated one of the weakest deals you can imagine.
01:55:05.000And get this, no get this, and the president at the time invited the Taliban to Camp David, a place of storied significance for us as Americans, a place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy, where we invite and receive respected world leaders.
01:55:27.000And this Former President, as President, invited them.
01:55:34.000To Camp David because he does not again appreciate the role and responsibility of the President of the United States to be Commander-in-Chief with a level of respect.
01:55:48.000And this gets back to the point of how he has consistently disparaged and demeaned members of our military, fallen soldiers, and the work that we must do to uphold the strength and the respect of the United States of America around the world.
01:56:53.000The reason it was good, it was we were getting out.
01:56:56.000We would have been out faster than that, but we wouldn't have lost the soldiers.
01:56:59.000We wouldn't have left many Americans behind and we wouldn't have left, we wouldn't have left 85 billion dollars worth of brand new beautiful military equipment behind.
01:57:42.000I want to move on now to race and politics in this country.
01:57:45.000Mr. President, you recently said of Vice President Harris, quote, I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn black, and now she wants to be known as black.
01:57:55.000I want to ask a bigger picture question here tonight.
01:57:57.000Why do you believe it's appropriate to weigh in on the racial identity of your opponent?
01:58:29.000Vice President Harris, your thoughts on this?
01:58:32.000I think it's I mean, honestly, I think it's a tragedy that we have someone who wants to be president who has consistently, over the course of his career, attempted to use race to divide the American people.
01:58:48.000You know, I do believe that the vast majority of us know that we have so much more in common than what separates us, and we don't want this kind of approach that is just constantly trying to divide us, and especially by race.
01:58:59.000And let's remember how Donald Trump started.
01:59:02.000He was a He owned land, he owned buildings, and he was investigated because he refused to rent property to black families.
01:59:17.000Let's remember, this is the same individual who took out a full page ad in the New York Times calling for the execution of five young black and Latino boys who were innocent, the Central Park Five.
01:59:34.000Took out a full page ad calling for their execution.
01:59:38.000This is the same individual who spread birther lies about the first black president of the United States.
01:59:46.000And I think the American people want better than that.
02:00:03.000We don't want a leader who is constantly trying to have Americans point their fingers at each other.
02:00:09.000I meet with people all the time who tell me, can we please just have discourse about how we're going to invest in the aspirations and the ambitions and the dreams of the American people?
02:00:23.000Knowing that regardless of people's color or the language their grandmother speaks, we all have the same dreams and aspirations and want a president who invests in those, not in hate and division.
02:00:39.000This is the most divisive presidency in the history of our country.
02:00:48.000They're destroying our country and they come up with things like What she just said, going back many, many years, when a lot of people, including Mayor Bloomberg, agreed with me on the Central Park fight, they admitted, they said, they pled guilty.
02:01:04.000And I said, well, if they pled guilty, they badly hurt a person, killed a person, ultimately.
02:01:09.000And if they pled guilty, then they pled—we're not guilty.
02:01:13.000But this is a person that has to stretch back years, 40, 50 years ago, because there's nothing now.
02:01:20.000I built one of the greatest economies in the history of the world, and I'm going to build it again.
02:01:25.000It's going to be bigger, better and stronger.
02:02:26.000Let's talk about our plans and let's compare the plans.
02:02:31.000I have a plan to give startup businesses $50,000 tax deduction
02:02:37.000to pursue their ambitions, their innovation, their ideas, their hard work.
02:02:43.000I have a plan, $6,000 for young families for the first year of your child's life
02:02:49.000to help you in that most critical stage of your child's development.
02:02:53.000I have a plan that is about allowing people to be able to pursue what has been fleeting
02:02:59.000in terms of the American dream by offering a help with down payment of $25,000 down payment
02:03:06.000assistance for first time home buyers.
02:03:09.000That's the kind of conversation, I believe, David, that people really want tonight as opposed to a conversation that is constantly about belittling and name-calling.
02:05:18.000But it's still never going to be great, and it's too expensive for people.
02:05:23.000And what we will do is we're looking at different plans.
02:05:27.000If we can come up with a plan that's going to cost our people, our population, less money and be better healthcare than Obamacare, then I would absolutely do it.
02:05:37.000But until then, I'd run it as good as it can be run.
02:05:40.000So, just so you guys know, you still do not have a plan.
02:05:50.000I would only change it if we come up with something that's better and less expensive.
02:05:54.000And there are concepts and options we have to do that.
02:05:58.000And you'll be hearing about it in the not-too-distant future.
02:06:01.000Vice President Harris, in 2017, you supported Bernie Sanders' proposal to do away with private insurance and create a government-run healthcare system.
02:06:09.000Two years later, you proposed a plan that included a private insurance option.
02:07:29.000And what the Affordable Care Act has done is eliminate the ability of insurance companies to deny people with pre-existing conditions.
02:07:37.000I don't have to tell the people watching tonight, you remember what that was like?
02:07:40.000Remember when an insurance company could deny if a child had asthma, if someone was a breast cancer survivor, if a grandparent had diabetes?
02:07:51.000And thankfully, as I've been vice president and we over the last four years have strengthened the Affordable Care Act, we have allowed for the first time Medicare to negotiate drug prices on behalf of you, the American people.
02:08:04.000Donald Trump said he was going to allow Medicare to negotiate prices.
02:08:09.000And now we have capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month.
02:08:12.000Since I've been vice president, we have capped the cost of prescription medication for seniors at $2,000 a year.
02:08:18.000And when I am president, we will do that for all people, understanding that the value I bring to this Is that access to health care should be a right and not just a privilege of those who can afford it.
02:08:31.000And the plan has to be to strengthen the Affordable Care Act, not get rid of it.
02:09:05.000That's another thing she doesn't want to do.
02:09:06.000People are paying privately for insurance that have worked hard and made money and they want to have private.
02:09:12.000She wants everybody to be on government insurance where you wait Six months for an operation that you need to be- President Trump, thank you.
02:09:20.000We have another issue that we'd like to get to that's important for a number of Americans, in particular younger voters, and that's climate change.
02:09:26.000President Trump, with regard to the environment, you say that we have to have clean air and clean water.
02:09:31.000Vice President Harris, you call climate change an existential threat.
02:09:35.000The question to you both tonight is what would you do to fight climate change?
02:09:40.000And Vice President Harris, we'll start with you.
02:09:43.000Well, the former president has said that climate change is a hoax.
02:09:47.000And what we know is that it is very real.
02:09:50.000You ask anyone who lives in a state who has experienced these extreme weather occurrences, who now is either being denied home insurance or is being jacked up.
02:09:59.000You ask anybody who has been the victim of what that means in terms of losing their home, having nowhere to go.
02:10:07.000We know that we can actually deal with this issue.
02:10:10.000The young people of America care deeply about this issue.
02:10:13.000And I am proud that as Vice President over the last four years, we have invested a trillion dollars in a clean energy economy while we have also Increase domestic gas production to historic levels.
02:10:26.000We have created over 800,000 new manufacturing jobs while I have been vice president.
02:10:31.000We have invested in clean energy to the point that we are opening up factories around the world.
02:10:37.000Donald Trump said he was going to create manufacturing jobs.
02:10:42.000And I'm also proud to have the endorsement of the United Auto Workers and Sean Fain, who also know that part of building a clean energy economy includes investing in American-made products, American automobiles, it includes Growing what we can do around American manufacturing and opening up auto plants, not closing them like happened under Donald Trump.
02:11:16.000They're building big auto plants in Mexico, in many cases owned by China.
02:11:21.000They're building these massive plants and they think they're going to sell their cars into the United States because of these people.
02:11:28.000What they have given to China is unbelievable, but we're not going to let that.
02:11:33.000We'll put tariffs on those cars so they can't come into our country because they will kill the United Auto Workers and any auto worker, whether it's in Detroit or South Carolina or any other place.
02:11:44.000What they've done to business and manufacturing in this country Is horrible.
02:12:35.000I'm going to glance even further to the side.
02:12:38.000One of the things I feel when you watch it is when you talk about healthcare, you stay in the bureaucratic quagmire of we put Obamacare forward, it was struggling, Congress, it was a great bill, do you have a better idea?
02:12:54.000And actually, you don't talk about Big Food's stranglehold on policymaking, you don't talk about big farmers profiting from sickness and ill health across America.
02:13:06.000And I feel like the general optimism that I felt when Bobby Kennedy endorsed Trump meant that what you have an opportunity for is to bring to the forefront the Big issues of look, it's whether or not Obamacare succeeds or doesn't succeed You've got massive health crisis in America and across the world and that's brought about by putting the interests of corporations ahead of the interests of people and it sort of what seems absurd is you kind of think I want them to move away from talking about from just demonstrating emotion whether it's the emotion that Trump has typified since he entered the political scene or
02:13:45.000Or the emotions that Kamala is demonstrating, I think, sort of rather well when it comes to... We'll deal with that little noise.
02:13:54.000That's the noise that we have from time to time.
02:13:59.000When you get into the policy, it seems sort of like ridiculous minutia.
02:14:03.000So like it seems sometimes very general and emotional and sometimes absurdly specific without sort of landing on the point of what's going to happen with this Ukraine-Russia war?
02:14:14.000What's going to happen in the Middle East?
02:14:16.000What are we going to do about healthcare?
02:14:18.000It's an odd blend of generalities and then such specificity that it negates you having a clear vision of what might happen under their terms.
02:14:30.000So you're sort of, in a way, left with your biases.
02:14:34.000That's what you're left with, is just a general sense of, well, You know I like Donald Trump because he represents anti-establishment interest or he represents anger or I like Kamala Harris because even though she is a person that's still in government in particular we understand with some control over the border or some responsibility at least for the border she's being pushed this change.
02:14:56.000I think they are managing that job well of saying she's sort of like somehow a progression of Biden.
02:15:02.000She's able to say well I'm not Joe Biden you forget I'm not Joe Biden.
02:15:05.000And I think that what we'll come away from this saying, I wonder if you agree Gavin, I wonder what you guys think in the chat, is that the context of this debate is defining this debate.
02:15:17.000The fact that sort of every incremental question, enquiry or follow-up is gently biasing you towards Kamala Harris, that it's broadly favourable.
02:15:27.000The conditions are so sort of generally beneficial to her that it's, I would say, sort of somewhat unfair Yeah, I think so.
02:15:37.000The main talking points are the moderators.
02:15:39.000I think that's going to be the headline out of this, is the fact-checking that they're doing on behalf of Kamala Harris towards Trump, whereas not the reversal.
02:15:51.000That is going to still, well, certainly within our space, the headlines.
02:15:55.000I mean, I think you're absolutely right.
02:15:57.000I don't see this debate in changing anyone's minds whatsoever.
02:16:01.000I think this is In a way you see why with the last debate the headlines were all about Biden's errors you know with this one I think some of the talking points will be probably that moment where Trump said I'm speaking now which was obviously a reference to Kamala with Mike Pence from 2020 so yeah I mean it's a it's a TV show I mean that's what I guess that's what we come back to is
02:16:29.000No one's really learning anything from it.
02:16:31.000It's either too general or too biographical when it's massive stories that we should be focusing on like war, which I actually think Trump easily won that round if you want to look at it as winning rounds.
02:16:43.000I mean, you want to talk about why Kamala Harris has got the Cheney vote.
02:16:47.000I mean, you couldn't have seen something more Pro-NATO, pro-war, you know, pro-funding of Ukraine.
02:16:55.000But, you know, and no-one's, again, to your point, no-one's fact-checking that, are they?
02:17:00.000No-one's going... No, no-one's saying... Yeah, exactly, was that the right thing to do?
02:17:58.000And a vision of that includes having a plan.
02:18:02.000Understanding the aspirations, the dreams, the hopes, the ambition of the American people, which is why I intend to create An opportunity economy, investing in small businesses, in new families, in what we can do around protecting seniors, what we can do that is about giving hardworking folks a break and bringing down the cost of living.
02:18:29.000That is about sustaining America's standing in the world and ensuring that we have the respect that we so rightly deserve, including respecting our military and ensuring we have the most lethal fighting force in the world.
02:18:44.000I will be a president that will protect our fundamental rights and freedoms, including the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have her government tell her what to do.
02:18:55.000I'll tell you, I started my career as a prosecutor.
02:18:57.000I was a DA, I was an Attorney General, a United States Senator, and now Vice President.
02:19:24.000...to be a president for all Americans and focus on what we can do over the next 10 and 20 years to build back up our country by investing right now in you, the American people.
02:20:02.000She should leave right now, go down to that beautiful White House, go to the Capitol, get everyone together and do the things you want to do.
02:20:10.000But you haven't done it and you won't do it because you believe in things that the American people don't believe in.
02:20:16.000You believe in Things like, we're not going to frack, we're not going to take fossil fuel, we're not going to do—things that are going to make this country strong, whether you like it or not.
02:20:26.000Germany tried that, and within one year, they were back to building normal energy plants.
02:21:52.000Thank you for watching here in the U.S.
02:21:53.000and all over the world and from all of us here at ABC News.
02:21:59.000I remember in earlier iterations of presidential debates, the Clinton-Trump one, the Clinton-Biden one, the constitution that forms the backdrop was more vivid and clear.
02:22:12.000You could make out the language and the words and you could see in those documents the original vision for the United States of America.
02:22:19.000Now they've blurred that vision and it might be a perfect metaphor for what's happening.
02:22:26.000Because what is actually happening in a broader global sense is some quite terrifying issues.
02:22:33.000The escalating war, the general tendency towards mass citizen management and control, and the use of crisis to legitimise further authority.
02:22:43.000And other than Trump's recognisable rhetoric, those issues weren't brought to the forefront.
02:22:49.000Kamala Harris, as you said Gareth, is good at presenting generalities and biographical facts and sort of oddly being able to present herself as a progression or an advance or even a change when, as Trump pointed out, she's in the White House right now.
02:23:08.000What I feel that this spectacle does overall, a spectacle facilitated somewhat by moderators whose favour was plain and visible, an ongoing democratic centralised government, is that there is no sort of There's an appetite to bring to the absolute forefront the nature of the crisis, both domestic and global, that many people feel like they're dealing with.
02:23:36.000You sort of glimpse occasionally the outline of, like, you know, economic crisis, inflation, global war, the horror of the Middle East, but you don't feel that you ever drop down into that space where people are sort of seriously going, listen, we're going to actually deal with this and this is how we're going to deal with it.
02:24:53.000Most of those things are just not discussed because they're not deemed relevant or they're not deemed the talking points that ABC or these moderators or whoever it is... Do you think as well, Gareth, that those points are somehow deliberately excluded?
02:25:08.000Because, for example, can Trump talk like Bobby Kennedy with regard to, say, the power of
02:25:37.000Did these lead to the conditions of censorship and big tech overreach and the relationship between big tech and government?
02:25:43.000I wish we could have done something different.
02:25:45.000It's sort of Like, I suppose there's not enough sense of that easy anti-establishment rhetoric, even if it is only rhetoric, because it's almost harder, isn't it, don't you find, to not judge the debate on its own terms, the terms it presents to you, which are, it's a spectacle and you want to see people say funny stuff, you want to see Trump land zingers, and
02:26:12.000Really, actually, we should be rejecting its terms.
02:26:16.000We should be saying, actually, we're in a real moment of potential crisis.
02:26:20.000Whoever's side you're on, if you're sort of a democratic person and democratic media inclined, your concerns are likely climate change and social justice issues.
02:26:30.000If you're a Trump MAGA person and you're inclined towards that type of media, you're likely
02:26:35.000concerned by the incredible and insidious power of the state and advancing globalism.
02:26:42.000But what can't be brought to the forefront are the mechanics and architecture of those
02:26:47.000problems because in a sense both sides are gridlocked.
02:26:50.000Remember we said even with RFK, as his campaign advanced and became more significant and successful
02:26:56.000as he went from a very marginal figure to a significant and influential figure, we know
02:27:04.000And now that he's endorsed Trump, many people, when I was doing that thing with Tucker, were saying, oh Bobby Kennedy feels like he's freed up again.
02:27:12.000It's like the institutions themselves whether it's the institutions of media or the institutions of government by their nature present restrictions that present restrictions that prevent change and so it's difficult like that debate you could watch it like it's a football match and it's difficult actually to watch it beyond that because when they do get into policy you think what 25 grand Yeah.
02:27:35.000for business that's what we're talking about aren't we like in a really
02:27:38.000terrifying position and so sort of Trump's stuff about Putin's got nuclear
02:27:41.000weapons lands or or if you're more inclined Kamala's stuff about look we're
02:27:45.000not gonna go backwards on women's rights and and like but even there like you
02:27:49.000said your point about fact-checking earlier mate it's like that no one said
02:27:53.000well that doesn't if you are totally pro body autonomy for the individual how
02:27:59.000does that tally with your stance on vaccine mandate vaccine Yeah, exactly.
02:28:34.000Ultimately, that is what we're focused on.
02:28:37.000I mean, hence why this debate is shown on ABC, you know, and Trump's criticized ABC a lot.
02:28:42.000But imagine if you had a debate like this that was on Rumble, for example, you know, what would that look like?
02:28:48.000Moderators like Bongino, Glenn Greenwald, you could have a, you know, you could have
02:28:54.000a, it doesn't have to be partisan, you know, it can be a fair debate but they obviously
02:29:01.000would never go for something like that.
02:29:02.000And I guess maybe the bigger takeaway is that, how relevant are these debates anyway?
02:29:08.000I mean, you know, we all know, we all kind of come away from this and being like, well, this is more about what wasn't said rather than what was said.
02:29:17.000And so therefore, probably a lot of the audience on Rumble are thinking, well, actually, a lot of these things I kind of care a bit about, but maybe 20% I care about, but there's so much that I do care about that wasn't covered.
02:29:29.000I suppose the bad debates must be relevant because the debates happen.
02:29:33.000And that means, I suppose, they must overall, and in a general way, service the status quo.
02:29:42.000Because if there were, imagine in a real democracy for a moment, you would say, Let's have a debate where these candidates are exposed to genuine interrogation, genuine opposition, and what the Kamala campaign has been notably defined by up till now is her unwillingness to deal with open interviews.
02:30:03.000She's been very controlled when it comes to PR, but Biden was like that in campaigning in 2020.
02:30:10.000They sort of realized then that Trump generates such polarizing feelings that you're probably tactically better off to let him do his thing, and the people that he don't reach and that don't like him will be greater galvanized by anything they can offer.
02:30:29.000Clearly, Kamala Harris is an upgrade on Biden.
02:32:22.000I think you can see what our conclusions are, that in a sense the framing and what is excluded is how you can determine what is important And yeah, probably we'd come away from this thinking it was a three against one debate.