Tucker Carlson joins Russell Brand in studio for his first interview since leaving Fox News to pursue a new career as a reporter at the New York Times. Tucker talks about why he left Fox, why he decided to leave the network, and what he plans to do now that he s not working for a major media company. He also talks about his decision to leave Fox and why he thinks it s a good thing he left the network in the first place. And, of course, he talks about how he s dealing with the fallout from being fired from Fox and the new job he s found at the Times. And, as always, there s a little bit of politics at the end of the episode, so don t miss it! Stay free, and remember, free speech is the right to free speech to unify in the spirit of love, not freedom to speak hatefully of one another. And of course that s the free speech of our free speech, which is the freedom from hate, not free speech from speaking hatefully against one another, is the speech to speak in love. . Thank you for listening to Stay Free with Russell Brand and Stay Free, and Good Morning America. Stay Free! - Russell Brand - Stay Free With Russell Brand, and God Bless You, My Brother and Sister, Caitlin Durante in this episode of Stay Free: A Call Me Out! (featuring Tucker Carlson . . . Stay Free and See The Future! in the Stay Free Podcast on Stay Free. on YouTube, Stay Free Speech Rumble on the home of Free Speech Rumble on Free Speech Remedy on , and Free Speech Revolution to join us in studio to talk about the future of the future, and all things free speech and freedom, love, and freedom in the world, and so much more! , and much more. , in this video on the future! on his new podcast Stay Free in the future. - stay free, my brother and I hope you're listening to this, and I love you all! and I'm grateful for all the love and support you'll see the world in the good stuff, Tweet Me Out, I'm going to see the future in the next episode, I'll see you soon! :) - TAYLOR MCCARTANCHOR: for a world exclusive!
00:38:56.000Thanks for joining me on Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:39:00.000At the moment, we're on YouTube, but that will only be for the first 15 minutes before we are exclusively on the home of Free Speech Rumble.
00:39:07.000And of course, our free speech is the free speech to unify in the spirit of love, not free speech to speak hatefully of one another.
00:39:16.000Of course, the reason we're so excited today is because we are being joined For a world exclusive, we have Tucker Carlson with us in studio.
00:39:23.000His first interview since leaving Fox News.
00:39:26.000Thanks for joining us, Tucker Carlson.
00:39:31.000As your friend and as someone who watches a lot of your videos, I'm amazed that I'm here.
00:39:37.000I'm not going to give away critical details and jeopardize your safety, but this is, if people could see where you're broadcasting from, You think it's a beautiful... I think it's beautiful.
00:39:48.000Thank you so much because I think we have a beautiful intention here.
00:39:51.000We're recognising that independent media and independent politics are beginning to coalesce.
00:39:56.000It's becoming increasingly unlikely that you can report truthfully, honestly and in good faith.
00:40:02.000Putting forward anti-establishment narratives without being attacked.
00:40:06.000Of course, we're going to talk about a lot of subjects here, but primarily we're going to want to talk about the reasons for you leaving Fox.
00:40:12.000We're going to want to talk about some of the reporting around Jan 6.
00:40:14.000We're going to want to talk about the attacks that you endured in your defense of the text messages around Trump.
00:40:21.000First of all, I want to start off by asking you, Taka, how has it been in the six months Six months or so since you left Fox.
00:40:28.000How have you been personally and how does it compare to the time when you left MSNBC in terms of its emotional impact on you?
00:40:35.000You know, it's not the first time I've been fired.
00:40:37.000And I think in our business, when you work for a big company in media and, you know, you say what you think, there's an expectation that you could get fired.
00:41:09.000And when you work for someone else, that person reserves the right, and in fact has inherently the right, to decide whether you work there or not.
00:41:32.000Uh, there was, you know, ugly leaking, you know, I'm a racist or whatever they leaked or someone there leaked to the New York Times, but I, that's not true.
00:41:42.000And I think the people who run the company know that's not true.
00:41:46.000Um, and I'm not mad about it and I've been, I've been happy.
00:41:51.000I guess the only thing that bothers me, Is I'm 54, and when you get a little bit older, and my wife and I, you know, our children are grown and we live in rural settings, as you do, because we believe in nature and God and dogs.
00:42:10.000I mean, it's just a little bit too nice, kind of.
00:42:13.000And I do feel like we, you know, people who are healthy and aware and who can read, like, have an obligation to be engaged.
00:42:22.000In the life of the community they live in, in the life of the country they live in, and in the life of the world to the extent that they can.
00:42:26.000And so my only fear has been maybe being a little bit too happy.
00:42:34.000You know I've spent a lot of time trout fishing, a lot of time we have four dogs, a lot of time with my dogs and my wife, and a lot of kind of like late breakfast outside stuff.
00:42:43.000You know like you don't That's not, I mean that's great, but life has got to be more than that, so now I'm back to work and I'm grateful to be doing that.
00:42:52.000The fact that you're broadcasting now on Twitter suggests that you still want to remain engaged in the international conversation, which is a conversation about ethics, it's a conversation If you're watching us on Rumble right now, remember to press the red button if you want to join us on Locals.
00:43:09.000That's where I watch the conversation.
00:43:10.000I can see Sensitive Hearts, Ashella, all of our beautiful, unified, diverse community that speak openly and freely there.
00:43:18.000Please do join us because at the end of this conversation, Tucker's going to join us for an additional chat.
00:43:26.000In a sense the whole conversation is true or false.
00:43:27.000I mean what's the point in having a conversation if there isn't some line between authenticity and falsehood?
00:43:33.000You touched briefly for a moment on the idea of racism and of course this is an idea that's talked about a lot or an accusation really that's been offered.
00:43:42.000When I went on your show in America, mate, which I enormously enjoyed and the personal connection with you that we have since cultivated is the thing that I perhaps most enjoyed, I spoke to some of my friends that are Overtly liberal, even though many of them are beginning to recognize that the categories of left and right are shifting.
00:44:00.000What they said is that Tucker Carlson, when he talks about demographic shifts in the United States of America, how the balance between different ethnicities is shifting over time, that that is codified racism.
00:44:16.000And some of them, like some of my mates that are LA Democrats, like you know me, I don't believe in any political party anymore.
00:44:26.000But I do still feel that some of the principles that are more typically associated with the left, like recognizing that all voices have a value in the conversation and essentially that racism is bad.
00:45:44.000And so the idea that You would reduce people to their race and say, you know, we're going to treat this person better or worse because of his skin color is repugnant to me.
00:45:55.000And it's something that I've argued against every day that I was at Fox News, I think all of my life.
00:46:01.000You can't punish or reward people based on their immutable characteristics.
00:47:16.000I support a lot of, well, I don't know how I feel about immigration as a topic, There are a lot of immigrants I love, including my best friend, for whatever it's worth.
00:47:27.000So I'm not, of course, I'm not against immigrants.
00:47:31.000But the way that the United States is doing immigration is designed to wreck the country and to make it unstable and to destroy any social cohesion whatsoever or social trust and make people hate each other and add to racial, yes, racial division, which I hate because it's not solvable.
00:48:06.000And I feel that in the United States, our leaders not only want racial conflict, but are stoking it.
00:48:12.000But as a practical matter, just in the context of US politics, and perhaps it's similar in the UK, the term racist or white supremacist or white nationalist, these are terms designed to stop people from talking.
00:48:28.000I remember the first time I was called a white supremacist, and for whatever it's worth, I don't want to sound defensive, but I grew up in Southern California in the 70s.
00:48:35.000uh living with a father who was by in modern terms very racially progressive or something you know he was always saying God created people like it didn't racism didn't make sense to me that was not a factor in my life at all um and we lived right next to Mexico whatever so but the first time I was called a white supremacist I was like jeez that's it hurt it stung And I thought, I'm not exactly sure what that is, but I know that I'm not one, but I know that that's like the worst thing you can be.
00:49:04.000That's like calling someone a Nazi, or a monster, or Satan, or like, what is that?
00:49:11.000It was right when I started my last Fox show, so it was in the fall of 2016.
00:49:14.000And I did a kind of long, very sincere, I mean it too, sincere script about how, you know, this is what I believe and we're all created by God and you should never punish or reward people based on their skin color.
00:49:37.000The words have no meaning to them, except as they're useful as tools to acquire political power and to make anyone who stands in the way of that shut up or go away or go to prison.
00:49:49.000And so once I realized they weren't sincere, then it's like, that's between me and God.
00:49:53.000And not only am I not a racist, I'm not much of a hater.
00:49:59.000And there are things that I hate, and there are people I feel like I'm on the verge of hating sometimes, or I feel myself obsessing.
00:50:04.000You know, you're like in the truck, or you're walking the dogs, and you're pissed about something, and I can't be that fucking person, you know, whatever.
00:50:11.000And I really try and catch myself and say to myself, that will eat you if you let it fester like that.
00:50:28.000One of the areas of your answer there that I imagine we could talk about further are the distinctions between having a position on immigration and its potential ability to destabilise an indigenous population.
00:50:39.000How you, again, cross-reference that with colonial and imperial history.
00:50:46.000How you cross-reference that with globalism and an attempt to create sort of like a centralist authoritarian model.
00:50:54.000That's something we could talk about a lot longer, I'm sure, the distinction between racism and having a position on immigration.
00:51:01.000You get in the way of their business plan and they call you a racist.
00:51:49.000radically and that our categories and our lexicon has to alter significantly because
00:51:55.000Left and right are starting to become redundant when there are so many similarities between the left and right
00:52:00.000When both appear to be driving towards centralist authoritarian models where you are surveilled and censored at will, where free conversation is closed down on the basis that there is some other authority that knows better than you what you mean when you're speaking and that they have the right to shut you down.
00:52:17.000Press that red button and join us over on local so you can ask questions to Tucker.
00:52:21.000I'm assuming that your questions for Tucker are bloody I'll answer any question that you throw my way.
00:52:26.000Deboss says, what is your relationship with Trump like now?
00:52:30.000But before Tucker tells us what his relationship with Donald Trump is like right now, having said once, like, you know, those text messages, remember that stuff?
00:52:39.000And then publicly saying that Donald Trump is significant.
00:53:28.000Right, so I suppose what we're asking there is that it seems that you said that Trump was no longer relevant in the political conversation, he was no longer the lightning rod, he was no longer the berserker of American politics.
00:53:40.000Loads of people on our platform absolutely love Donald Trump.
00:53:44.000They see him as the solution to America's problems.
00:53:46.000They see him as the great swamp drainer.
00:53:49.000It seems you have occupied varying positions on Trump at various times.
00:54:38.000And so there's a primary going on in the United States between Trump and a bunch of other people, primarily Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, but others, Vivek Ramaswamy, for example.
00:54:49.000And I haven't said word one about it, don't plan to.
00:54:55.000I think looking back on this 10 years from now, assuming we're still around, I think we're going to see Trump's emergence as the most significant thing to happen in American politics in 100 years, because he reoriented the Republican Party against the wishes of Republican leaders.
00:55:13.000But when I think about Trump right now, so it's July of 2023, you know, I'm struck by his foreign policy views.
00:55:21.000You know, Trump is the only person with stature in the Republican Party, really, who's saying, wait a second, you know, why are we supporting an endless war in Ukraine?
00:55:35.000And that, you know, leaving aside whether Trump's gonna get the nomination or get elected president or would be a good president, you know, I can't even assess that.
00:55:43.000All I can say at this point is I'm so grateful that he has that position.
00:57:07.000And do you not think that RFK, who is, in my understanding, he's been on the show a couple of times, he's now on Rumble, and I find him to be a very admirable man, he similarly is vehemently anti-war, anti-this conflict, and seems to also have identified the unspoken intention to be the deracination and annihilation of Russia for globalist and economic reasons.
00:57:36.000Okay, say the people who hate democracy.
00:57:39.000Well, I love Bobby Kennedy, and I've had him on my show many times.
00:57:42.000He announced a president on my show, which took a lot of stones on his part, given how despised I am by a lot of Democratic primary voters.
00:57:49.000I think he's a wonderful person, I'll say that.
00:59:20.000And he's persevered and I really admire him.
00:59:24.000If RFK and Trump have risen, as they plainly have, to capture the popular imagination, and yet both to a degree are stymied, shackled or reluctantly tolerated by their party, what does that tell us about the shifting sands of American political life?
00:59:42.000I think the area where you and I most plainly and overtly align, perhaps other than the belief in God I suppose, is our Deep understanding that the military-industrial complex and Big Pharma are able to exert significant power over the Democratic Party, a democratic process that renders ordinary electoral politics basically meaningless.
01:00:05.000These two figures are like populist anti-establishment figures in a sense.
01:00:11.000What do you feel is the likelihood of either of them being able to pass through the internal mechanics of their parties, in the case of RFK, through the legal hurdles that are being placed in front of Trump at the moment?
01:00:24.000And what is the role of independent media, in particular, say, a figure like Elon Musk, who seems, at the moment at least, to have the power to fight on that terrain?
01:00:34.000I know there was a lot in that question, Tucker, but you've got a lot to say.
01:00:38.000The United States has had precisely in 250 years almost one populist president, and that was Teddy Roosevelt, also the most popular president in American history, who was president from 1901.
01:00:49.000The president who he served as VP was shot to death.
01:00:56.000Most popular president the United States ever had and he was a populist.
01:00:59.000The two biggest populist figures in the moment are Trump and Bobby Jr.
01:01:06.000And then we had a guy called Ross Perot run about 30 years ago who roughly had the same politics.
01:01:12.000All four of those figures had one thing in common.
01:01:15.000They were all from the world they criticized.
01:01:18.000So you think of populist, you know, the English Peasant Revolt.
01:01:22.000Which is one of the most interesting things ever to happen, where they stormed the Tower of London and killed, I think they killed, the Archbishop.
01:01:41.000Like, we don't even know when he was born.
01:01:43.000And that was not an effective rebellion.
01:01:44.000Of course, they did not free the serfs after that, as I recall.
01:01:47.000But the effective populists are the ones who critique from the inside and say, I grew up in this world.
01:01:54.000Teddy Roosevelt grew up rich, of course, in New York.
01:01:57.000Trump, Perot, Bobby, I mean, Bobby Kennedy's family is one of the most famous families in the world in modern history, the Kennedys, and certainly the most famous family in democratic politics.
01:02:06.000So these are people who know how the system works because they've benefited from the system.
01:02:10.000And so their critique is much more meaningful and much more effective, I would say, because they can bear witness to what they have seen.
01:02:17.000Um, I don't think Trump has changed politics in Washington.
01:02:22.000I think the parties both have been very resistant to any kind of reform and that's very foolish.
01:02:29.000You see things changing around you and you just, you can't metabolize it.
01:02:33.000You can't sort of change with the moment and then you, you know, you meet a bad end when you become that rigid.
01:02:41.000Um, I think that Bobby Kennedy and Trump will both have a very tough time getting the nomination.
01:02:49.000I'm hoping that both of them will, of course, I guess.
01:02:54.000I'm hoping that their message will be heard.
01:02:55.000I don't even know what I hope for in the process itself, but I want them to be heard.
01:02:59.000And they can now be heard because there are channels of information that people can tune into and listen.
01:03:06.000I mean, I would just, I would just, I would amend one thing you said when you said that, you know, these huge multinationals control our politics.
01:03:23.000And so, you know, there's no incentive whatsoever to question their products.
01:03:27.000And now we have, because of the social media companies, Twitter and Rumble and probably others, we have less filtered sources of information with fewer gatekeepers and a higher probability you'll hear something true.
01:03:57.000Figures like RFK and Trump already demonstrably through his successful use of Twitter are going to require New models of media in order to build an audience whether
01:04:09.000or not you align with the views of those individuals It's it's plain to see that the traditional media models
01:04:16.000curtail and censor their rhetoric Why when you left Fox News?
01:04:23.000I think like those of us that work in the independent media space or for our like Tucker's leaving like an I even if I
01:04:30.000May say like when we met like are you gonna leave Fox?
01:04:33.000Like, I felt like, just from the, just because of your awareness, and because of the stuff you were saying about the mainstream, the fact you're having Glenn Greenwald on there, and people every week!
01:05:16.000I mean, I've, you know, I think that's fair.
01:05:18.000I've made zero money since I left, and that's fine.
01:05:22.000But at some point I'd like to, but I'm not working for Elon Musk.
01:05:26.000He hasn't offered to hire me, and if he did, I wouldn't accept.
01:05:29.000Um, but what he's done is offered me that what he's offered every other user of Twitter, which is a you know a chance to broadcast Your views without a gatekeeper there.
01:05:41.000But I do think, you know, I think the technology at Twitter is, my expectation is evolving.
01:05:46.000And I think, you know, the subscription model, you know, might work or it might not.
01:05:50.000You know, I don't know, but I think it might.
01:05:56.000But what social media offer in the short term, at least for me, is an audience, but also a reason, this is personal, but a reason to write.
01:06:04.000I can't think clearly without writing.
01:06:06.000You know, I started in this business as a magazine writer and a book writer, newspaper writer, and I need to write things out.
01:06:13.000I'm very dyslexic and I can't, you know, I have trouble processing information in certain ways.
01:06:17.000And unless I'm forced to write a script, I can't really decide what I think about something.
01:06:22.000And so the daily or regular discipline of writing a script Forces me and in some case it really is forced.
01:06:30.000I don't want to do it I'd much rather go fishing or bird hunting you know I would but if I have to I will and there's something wonderful in that you know writing a script as you know Forces you to think through Everything about the issue it to have a much deeper understanding of at least for me.
01:06:48.000That's true, so I couldn't go too long without writing or my IQ would drop dramatically.
01:06:54.000I don't think I'd ever recover and We had Stephen Friend on here, and the other FBI whistleblower, and importantly, and perhaps this is the most important thing about that story, one of their brothers and sisters has tattooed stick figures of me on their genitals.
01:07:31.000But also, they said, of course, these FBI whistleblowers, that the FBI had a significant number of agents, that there were other law enforcement agencies there on January the 6th.
01:07:41.000In fact, it was the whistleblowing on this subject that caused them all this grief.
01:07:44.000In a sense, there are some discrepancies, shall we say, on how that event was initially reported on with regards to what
01:08:37.000I have well, let me just say one of my children was there working in the building and called me during it and And was right nearby when Ashley Babbitt was shot.
01:08:46.000So I was interested in it from the moment it happened.
01:08:48.000I was appalled by the vandalism outside, by fighting with police officers.
01:09:49.000If you've got a big population in your country that doesn't believe that your elections are on the level, you need to figure out a way to convince them that the elections are on the level or else you can't have democracy because it's a faith-based system.
01:10:00.000So that was the first thing I noticed.
01:10:02.000There was no effort at all to convince people, actually, electronic voting machines are secure.
01:10:27.000There was no effort to reassure anybody.
01:10:29.000They immediately used it as a cudgel to make their political opponents shut up, and in a lot of cases, to send them to jail.
01:10:36.000So I noticed this, and I'm like, wait a second.
01:10:38.000Nobody here is operating in good faith at all.
01:10:40.000They're just immediately lying with maximum aggression.
01:10:44.000And anyone who asks questions about it, like me, and if you could go back and look at the tape, my first five shows on January 6th were like, well, yeah, it's bad, but I don't think you're telling the truth about what actually happened.
01:11:55.000Well, he would know, of course, because he was in charge of security at the site.
01:12:00.000So the more time has passed, now it's been two and a half years, it becomes really obvious that core claims they made about January 6th were lies.
01:12:10.000And my view about events and about people Is, if you catch someone telling a lie about one thing, the first question you have is, what else are you lying about?
01:12:20.000If you say to your wife, where were you?
01:12:23.000If you find out she was not at the grocery store, then it raises, okay, probably not just lying about being at the grocery store, were you?
01:12:42.000And I'm the last person... I'm often accused of being a conspiracy, not on the opposite.
01:12:47.000I grew up in a very stable country, the United States, in the 70s and 80s, where people didn't indulge in conspiracies because there weren't any obvious ones afoot, right?
01:12:58.000We trusted our government, by and large.
01:13:01.000But the amount of lying around January 6th, and it was obvious in the tapes that I showed, is really distressing.
01:13:11.000And anyone who's covering for those lies should be ashamed of himself, and that would include almost the entire American media, including Fox News, people at Fox News.
01:13:20.000Fox News, to its great credit, let me air that, and I'm grateful that they did.
01:13:23.000But there are people there who were mad at me for airing that.
01:13:59.000There is surveillance tape that they hid, until I aired it, showing the Capitol Police trying lots of doors, trying to get into the Senate chamber, the sacrosanct chamber that he wasn't allowed to be in, and then escorting him in!
01:14:11.000And he kind of wanders around like he's taking a hit of mescaline, just kind of, you know what I mean?
01:14:16.000And like, he says a prayer, he thanks God for the Capitol Police, and then he wanders out.
01:14:21.000Now, there are a lot of conclusions you could draw from that, but you cannot call that guy an insurrectionist.
01:15:02.000And to put Jacob Chansley, an American citizen, a Navy veteran, in jail for years after he was let into the Senate chamber by uniformed Capitol Hill police officers, and then I play that, and I'm the bad guy?
01:15:35.000You don't want to go to prison to take a man's freedom away and call him all these names for something he didn't do and then show no remorse at all when you are exposed to have lied about it.
01:15:45.000This is a human being who was locked away in a prison.
01:15:52.000Do you mind if I spoke from time to time? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Well it's very hard to get in this position. Right.
01:16:00.000See that Iraq war, like you know that was brilliant when you went on that podcast and went, like that you were
01:16:05.000ashamed that you participated and that you rallied for that war.
01:16:08.000Now to hear you talk about Jan 6, you're saying that at the beginning you had no axe to grind and broadly speaking you oppose violence of any kind.
01:16:20.000And you oppose violence against the police, perhaps in particular Now, though, it seems that you are inquiring, if not suggesting, that there was another aim.
01:16:31.000Are you saying that it allowed the capital police to be funded differently and more extensively?
01:16:37.000Are you saying that it facilitated further authoritarianism?
01:16:40.000That it enabled people to smear the MAGA movement?
01:16:45.000That it created more opportunity for surveillance laws and censorship?
01:16:49.000Um, techniques or critiques that we use here on our channel when looking at news is, oh does this allow people to censor more?
01:16:57.000Does this allow people to surveil more?
01:16:59.000Does this allow, for example, like a sort of just to use a sort of something anecdotal and contemporaneous, that there's a just stop oil movement in this country at the moment and whenever you see footage of them sort of blocking roads and sort of road users dragging them out the road because it's annoying, I say this as a person who sort of loves nature, loves the environment, feels that profit shouldn't be put ahead of respect and love for the environment.
01:17:21.000I can't help but feel that the media has an agenda in continually presenting us with these annoying images of Just Stop Oil getting in the way of ordinary commuters who are just trying to get to work.
01:17:31.000I'm beginning to now critique media from that perspective.
01:17:34.000Oh, they are using this event in order to elicit these emotions, whether it's war or the events of January 6th.
01:17:42.000Do you believe that there is, as George Carlin would say, a convergence of interest between the state and its desire to regulate and corporations and their desire to profit, big tech and their desire to capture data, the state and their need to get data?
01:17:55.000Because when I'm listening to you, you don't sound like a regular TV anchor anymore.
01:18:01.000And in fact, one of the things I'm offering is that that's not a role that's going to exist for much longer because the centralisation of authority is becoming so rapid and so radical that if you even work in this space, you know, with these new EU laws being passed that will mean that social media platforms will be heavily fined 6% of their annual revenue and that they can be censored.
01:18:22.000The Five Eyes countries are all passing censorship laws.
01:18:24.000In a sense, to become an independent media voice will be to become an activist.
01:18:29.000So with regard to the January 6th, do you think these events are used to create particular outcomes?
01:20:27.000Which of your solutions to climate change disempower you?
01:20:31.000So when you act your father on behalf of your children, you are doing things because you love them.
01:20:37.000They're not necessarily in your interest.
01:20:39.000Like, you'd rather go take a sauna or do some yoga.
01:20:42.000Or hop on your wife, but no, you have a child with needs, so you love that child, so you do something for that child.
01:20:49.000That's what it looks like to serve and love someone, is to do something you don't want to do, doesn't help you in any way, but at least potentially helps that other person.
01:20:57.000I see the climate movement not doing one thing that doesn't enrich or empower the climate movement and its corporate sponsors.
01:21:24.000So if you're really worried about climate change caused by carbon dioxide, you'd probably be planting a lot of trees.
01:21:29.000I don't see a ton of, and I would be very for that as someone who truly loves trees and spends a lot of time thinking about trees and have a lot of trees and maintain a lot of trees.
01:21:37.000I love trees almost more than anything.
01:21:39.000Like, where's the nationwide effort to reforest the United States?
01:21:45.000Instead, I see a lot of solar panels from China that don't work, that actually wreck the environment, industrial wind farms that wreck where I live.
01:22:08.000So that's an indication of bad faith to me.
01:22:11.000And of course, you know, I'm not going to be boorish and I'll stop, but anyone who's interested in the uses to which January 6th has been put by the people in charge of Washington can look it up.
01:22:18.000I mean, the surveillance that was justified The total capture of our banks, for example, by the FBI in the wake of January 6th is completely shocking to any civil libertarian.
01:22:29.000You can't call my bank and find out what I spent money on.
01:22:47.000I don't know the answer and I'm not going to speculate.
01:22:49.000But I know in the aftermath of January 6th, that event was used by predators in our political sphere to increase their power and to disempower the population they supposedly serve.
01:23:05.000I'm like very temperamentally conservative.
01:23:08.000I like to build things, not break them.
01:23:10.000But you can't look at me with a straight face and tell me you're defending democracy when you get JP Morgan to go through my credit card statements.
01:24:07.000And if you'll pardon me, and I don't mean this as criticism of your country, which I love, but I've spent the last week in England, and I've driven all around.
01:24:20.000But one thing that just I can't get over is the stark change the stark change in architecture between 1939 when you all entered the war after the invasion of Poland in 1945 when you quote won, okay architecture changed completely and it went from designs that complemented the landscape around them to And local material, you know, used in ways to, I think, elevate the human spirit to a kind of architecture that clearly hates people, that is designed to oppress the human spirit and make people feel without value, worthless.
01:25:03.000And that is ugly and disposable and made out of materials that are not worthy to be lived in, that are disgusting.
01:25:11.000And you see that not just in England, but also in the United States.
01:25:13.000Pre-war, as you well know, is a selling point for apartments in New York for a reason.
01:25:20.000And there's something about war that changes people in a very, very deep way, down to the architecture, which is an expression of how we feel about each other.
01:25:27.000The buildings that we build to house our fellow man say a lot about how we feel about our fellow man.
01:25:59.000Whereas you drive to the Cotswolds and people in the pre-industrial age with no electricity and no machines built buildings that are still standing and true to this day using local limestone and thatch.
01:26:52.000Even the ones whose legs weren't blown off.
01:26:55.000It's interesting to me how often you appear to be referring to the ulterior energetic force, emotion or essence of a thing, i.e.
01:27:06.000that beauty could perhaps be the manifestation of love.
01:27:11.000I've obviously myself observed many times that municipal and state buildings were once plainly an expression of a contract between the people and their government of a good faith relationship.
01:27:25.000I walked up with my wife in the rain on a village hall in Eastlitch, in the town of the Cotswolds, and the village hall was so beautiful.
01:27:37.000And I thought, whoever built that cared about the people, it was built by the people who live there for the people who live there, and they loved the people who lived there because they were related to them or knew them.
01:27:45.000And that hall, I mean, it was built by peasants without machines!
01:27:50.000It's impossible to ignore, though, that beneath even these architectural changes that you refer to is an insidious economic ideology.
01:28:00.000Of course there is a kind of a disdain for the population and the public, and this disdain is something we're continually talking about, whether it's the media, whether it's the state, whether it's private corporations.
01:28:08.000you can kind of tell they don't like you, and they don't respect you.
01:28:12.000So when populist figures emerge, i.e. most notably Trump, who somehow seems to give timbre to this idea
01:28:18.000that hey, they don't like us very much, it's pretty plain that for a while, when you-
01:28:23.000Right there, that's Trump's appeal right there.
01:28:24.000When he was talking about Roosevelt a moment ago, that he came from the bourgeoisie or the intelligentsia,
01:28:29.000it was sort of notable that there's a requirement for an alliance between people who understand,
01:28:35.000experientially, systemic, the way that systems conduct themselves,
01:28:40.000the way systems operate, the bourgeoisie, the intelligentsia, whatever word you wanna use
01:28:44.000for that critique, and ordinary people.
01:28:46.000This, I believe, is the communicative bridge that needs to be built.
01:28:51.000I've long felt that it is disgusting that most people now feel voiceless,
01:28:57.000and not most, many people feel that their electoral agencies are not worthy of trust,
01:29:04.000There will never be another election, I don't imagine, in your country, Tucker, where the other side goes, oh, well done, winning that election!
01:29:11.000Whether it's the Democrats or the Republicans, the other side's just going to go, It was corrupt!
01:29:18.000So there is much that needs to be healed and obviously what we continually offer here is that what's required is indeed beyond an investigation and interrogation of those agencies New systems of decentralisation to move democracy as close as possible to the people affected by it, which I suppose is a principle that's evident in federalism but something that we can discuss more in a moment.
01:29:41.000Tucker Carlson has talked about the great beauty of this nation in some ways, and I mean this with all due love and respect to our cousins across the Atlantic, a country that in a way Invented your country a little bit.
01:30:10.000Please stay with us, because afterwards, me and Tucker are going to talk a lot more about the military-industrial complex, how deeply embedded they are in the system.
01:30:16.000I'm going to ask Tucker, even though there are probably contractual restrictions for what Tucker can and can't talk about, I'm going to say, Why do you reckon Fox Satcher?
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01:35:26.000And so my views for the last 20 years have been, and I realized, and I repented of that, I feel sick even thinking about it now.
01:35:34.000But my views have remained pretty much the same for the last 20 years.
01:35:38.000They've evolved, you know, as things have changed.
01:35:40.000But in general, I've been skeptical of the storylines and all kinds of different things.
01:35:44.000And I certainly was for the 14 years I was at Fox.
01:35:47.000And they were always, they didn't agree with me, of course, I don't think, but they were always very nice to me and they always let me say what I wanted.
01:35:56.000Not one time did they tell me not to say anything.
01:35:58.000So I was always grateful to Fox and I am in retrospect grateful to Fox for that.
01:36:02.000So that never changed up until the moment they called me and said, you know, we're taking the show off the air.
01:36:09.000But I do think as a general matter, not even about me, the war in Ukraine is a red line for For a lot of people in business and politics, and you see it in our politics in the U.S., where the leaders of the Republican Party in the Congress, who really are repulsive in my view, are now supporting sending cluster bombs to Ukraine.
01:39:56.000And they can't, and I look at someone like Tony Blinken, who's our Secretary of State, who's obviously way over his head, not a genius, but probably above average in cleverness, but not, you know, he's not like a great statesman or a great person or whatever.
01:40:10.000And he feels, you just watch him on television, he feels this burden to pretend, I'm Secretary of State, I got it all under control.
01:40:16.000You have no freaking idea, Tony Blinken!
01:40:18.000Like, you have no idea what's going to happen.
01:40:21.000You've been wrong again and again and again, but you can't admit it.
01:41:11.000This is, I believe, the undergirding idea of perennialism by Aldous Huxley, where he contrasts various theologies and notes that the primary idea, whether it's in the Vedas or coming from Meister Eckhart, is this transcendence of self.
01:41:28.000The acknowledgement that this vessel, this idea, this synaptic crash of self, this mess of memory and projection can be transcended through and via a connection to God.
01:41:51.000The denial of this transcendence, or even this imminent relationship with a higher power, a higher force, defines our age of materialism, rationalism.
01:42:18.000The idea that a flower is more beautiful than anything we could create, and that a white pine is more enduring than anything we will ever build, Like, that's such a challenge.
01:42:27.000The idea that there are mysteries we can't explain?
01:42:45.000They don't have the answers and they can't admit it because admitting that they don't have the answers is the same as admitting they're not God.
01:42:52.000And I'm only saying that's the most liberating thing you can do.
01:42:56.000It's curious how, sort of, how it can be distilled to something so identifiably personal.
01:43:02.000Like, I saw you once interview someone and you went, no, no, I do the same!
01:43:05.000Like, I thought you were talking about gun laws or something.
01:43:55.000I suppose in a sense where we appear to align very strongly is we don't like being told what to do, that we're willing to surrender, willing to learn, willing to take on new ideas.
01:44:05.000A few more just little personal questions.
01:44:07.000They're not personal, they're about your career.
01:44:09.000How do you feel about the FBI hacking your phone, mate, with the Putin thing and being called a Putin puppet?
01:45:32.000It's pretty plain that one of the ways that the cultural war can be continually Leveraged, even issues where I imagine you have strong views, and indeed these are arguments that define your country, certainly more than mine, although everyone's affected by them.
01:45:53.000Are we ever, as a, you know, there's nothing in our evolution that would suggest we should live in countries of 300 million people all following a single credo.
01:46:02.000Isn't it necessary, and indeed obvious, that this ulterior driving energy be that through technology or different forms of identification?
01:46:13.000I mean, imagine if, like, 2,000 years ago, you'd grabbed someone from Iceland and someone from Sudan and someone from London and said, right, you lot, you're all the same, live together, according to one belief.
01:46:26.000So, aren't we, isn't it obvious and necessary that what has to change is the nature of democracy itself?
01:46:32.000And would you, and I guess, I imagine, I can guess, because you've said about, you know, shooting's a hobby of yours, you've already said that you are anti-abortion, would you be willing to, as it were, stand on an ideological if not political ticket with people that had opposite views on you when it came to like trans and raising kids trans and stuff like that?
01:46:53.000If it meant that you and your community would be completely at liberty to raise your children and run your community how you wanted to.
01:47:18.000Sprinting about, gathering up them donations.
01:47:20.000But of course, and by the way, I mean, the real, like the Tower of Babel didn't work for a reason.
01:47:27.000That is commentary on, you know, written by the ancient Hebrews 3,000 years ago, but still a sort of deep commentary on people and how to organize a society.
01:47:35.000And like, human differences, I said at the outset, people are united in their value.
01:47:42.000I think their value, each person's value is identical because they're all created by the
01:47:47.000creator. But people are different. I mean, they are. I have four children. They're not all the
01:47:51.000same, right? People are different. And they kind of live the way they want to live. And it's sort
01:47:57.000of any effort to make them live in ways that you want them to live that they don't want to live,
01:48:02.000like, is doomed to concentration camps, kind of, in the end.
01:48:05.000Like you need to use a lot of force to make people change basic habits that they've decided they want.
01:48:12.000So that suggests to me much smaller administrative zones or countries or whatever you want to call them.
01:48:20.000The problem is technology makes it really easy to manipulate huge groups of people.
01:48:23.000The drive out here from London, my driver's from Brazil.
01:49:14.000So like, we would have been a pretty good self-governing country of, you know, 11 houses or whatever in Northwest DC because we had this fundamental thing in common, which is geography.
01:49:26.000And I do think ultimately we'll get back to that, because I think it's a much more natural way.
01:49:33.000Loose alliances of small places is a much more natural way to govern, in my opinion.
01:49:59.000Even when we as a team start talking about, how do we talk to Tucker about trans issues, cultural issues?
01:50:05.000When we're talking about it, we start saying, oh, it's difficult, isn't it?
01:50:07.000Like, you know, as soon as we start talking about trans athletes or Virtue signaling or positive affirmation it becomes in a sense it becomes divisive.
01:50:19.000My personal position is like the way I want to raise my children how I want to raise my children of course you have to immediately caveat that with of course there are some areas where you think well what if people are mistreating their children in ways that are obvious you immediately have to asterisk that but that aside I want to raise my children how I want to raise my children I don't want anybody else telling me how to raise my children.
01:50:40.000And I recognize that the price of that is other people are going to raise their children how they want to.
01:50:45.000And the aesthetics of that and the descriptions of that are almost none of my business.
01:50:54.000I mean, I, yeah, I mean, that's a whole separate, you know, the question of whether you should be told how to raise your children by people who don't have children.
01:51:22.000I mean, you can within certain boundaries.
01:51:25.000You know, like, you can be against Bud Light or for Bud Light or whatever, but you can't say, Ukraine is not a democracy, so stop saying we're fighting for democracy.
01:51:39.000With all these conspiracy theories coming out as true, is there anything that's still covered up that you think holds weight?
01:51:45.000You know, now that they have more information about UFOs and stuff, do you think there's anything that's not been uncovered that you... Yeah!
01:51:52.000Biden just reclassified the Kennedy documents 60 years after his assassination.
01:51:57.000No one, even peripherally involved, is still alive.
01:52:01.000So what could possibly be the sources and methods that were supposedly showing the world by declassifying these are so outdated, they're irrelevant.
01:52:10.000They were using disappearing ink in 1963.
01:52:12.000So why in the world would we be continuing to hide the truth about the Kennedy assassination 60 years later?
01:52:21.000And of course, the answer is obvious, because it implicates not individuals, but institutions.
01:52:27.000And reveals them as complicit in a murder and in the overthrow of the U.S.
01:52:38.000I know that for a fact because I interviewed someone who saw the documents.
01:52:43.000And so, you know, we have a long way... Look, the bottom line is, unless there is a compelling reason that relates to imminent physical security of citizens, we should never hide the truth from the population in a democracy.
01:53:35.000Yes, in a sense, the very category of classified, except in matters of national security, obviously indicates a kind of parental relationship.
01:53:44.000You used the metaphor... Yes, thank you.
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