Stay Free - Russel Brand - Marianne Williamson (Fighting The System)

00:00:00.000 Hello there, you Awakening Wonders.

00:00:02.000 Thanks for joining me.

00:00:02.000 We've got a great show today.

00:00:03.000 Marianne Williamson's on the show.

00:00:05.000 You know, she's standing for president in the Democrat Party. 0.98

00:00:08.000 We're going to be talking to her about the issues that matter.

00:00:10.000 We're not going to get bound up in the narratives of the left, are we?

00:00:14.000 No.

00:00:14.000 We're going to, in fact, direct her towards populist, libertarian and anarchist arguments about systemic corruption and the failure of power.

00:00:23.000 Then, Joe, what I'm going to do sometimes, Gareth, my on-screen assistant and my friend, my co-conspirator, I'm gonna keep stitching in the spirituality from which she made her fame and fortune.

00:00:35.000 Because you know that Marianne Williamson, I think she interpreted a book called the Book of Miracles, which claims that it's a message from Jesus.

00:00:42.000 You've heard him, let me know in the chat, the comments.

00:00:45.000 He re-engaged with someone and offered a new prophecy, like an update.

00:00:49.000 Wow!

00:00:49.000 People say that from time to time, don't they?

00:00:51.000 Jesus 2.0.

00:00:52.000 That's what sometimes people offer, because that's what the Mormon guy was saying, Joseph Smith.

00:00:57.000 I've had a chat with Jesus.

00:00:58.000 He's given me these plates.

00:00:59.000 Can we see them?

00:01:00.000 No.

00:01:00.000 Right.

00:01:01.000 Well, straight away, I wonder if the plates are even there.

00:01:05.000 Anyway, we're going to be talking about that.

00:01:06.000 We've got a fantastic presentation for you where we have a deeper look at a new story that I didn't even tell you about because it would surprise you.

00:01:13.000 We'll be talking about Rand Paul and how the Republican Party are beating the drums for an ongoing war Stay free with Russell Brand.

00:01:20.000 At least I have a war. There's been wars with China in the past. We had them, the box wars, 1.00

00:01:23.000 they were called in them days. Let me know in the comments and the chat if there's anyone

00:01:28.000 in American politics who doesn't want a war with someone. I'm going to ask Marianne Williamson who

00:01:32.000 she wants a war with. I'm going to ask her about that. Do you want a war with somebody? Is that

00:01:35.000 why you're here? I'm actually going to be nice to her. I know her and I've met her several times,

00:01:38.000 so politeness. Stay free with Russell Brand. See it first on Rumble. I'd like to say a special

00:01:44.000 hello to all of you watching us on Locals. And if you want to join us on Locals, press the red

00:01:48.000 button on the bottom of your screen now.

00:01:51.000 I'm very excited to announce that I'm being joined by renowned spiritual teacher, best-selling author of A Return to Love, and now presidential candidate without debate, please welcome to the show Marianne Williamson.

00:02:02.000 Thank you for coming here.

00:02:03.000 Thank you for having me.

00:02:05.000 Maren, what do you think it tells us about the state of internal politics within the Democrat Party that we are foregoing the possibility to see some interesting candidates debate the current President Joe Biden?

00:02:17.000 What does it tell us about power?

00:02:18.000 What does it tell us about the internal machinery of the Democratic Party?

00:02:22.000 Well, it tells us that there is an elite, an establishment elite, who feels that they have the right to shoehorn in the president.

00:02:30.000 And for a party that claims to be and should be such a champion of democracy, There's no reason for it to be so wary of democracy in our own house.

00:02:39.000 Of course the president should be debating his primary challengers.

00:02:43.000 I suppose what it shows you is that, in that instance at least, we have the appearance of democracy, or the claim is being made that we live within a democracy, and the party takes its name from that word, and yet we have a managed, siphoned, and stymied process How telling is it that Joe Biden was able to say to a significant portion of the donor class when he addressed them prior to becoming president that nothing will fundamentally change?

00:03:13.000 What does that tell you about the influence of donation and external corporate funding upon the political process and in particular the funding of the Democrat Party?

00:03:25.000 Although of course this would be true of both parties would be my assumption.

00:03:28.000 Let's not pretend that the Republican Party is not completely pervaded by corporate influence.

00:03:34.000 There's a reason why this is now called, by so many people, a corporate duopoly.

00:03:39.000 The Democratic Party still tries to have it both ways.

00:03:41.000 You know, there was a time when, more than not, the Democratic Party was an unequivocal, unabashed advocate for the people—the people, particularly the working people of the United States.

00:03:52.000 It was during Bill Clinton's presidency, when he formed something called the Democratic Leadership Council, that they sort of decided to try to have it both ways.

00:04:01.000 Yes, be there for the people, but we, too, can play with the big boys, raise all the money that it will take in order to remain competitive and so forth.

00:04:09.000 And this really tore the soul—it's a rupture in the soul of the Democratic Party, so that now, in the Democratic Party, as in the Republican Party, there are these two major elements.

00:04:19.000 And for the Democrats, there are the corporatists, the elitists, the establishment, and then there are the progressives.

00:04:25.000 Now, the establishment elitists almost act as though the progressives are trying to hijack the party.

00:04:32.000 But actually, they hijack the party.

00:04:35.000 The progressives are the tradition of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt.

00:04:39.000 And that's how I see someone like myself.

00:04:41.000 I'm the one standing for the traditional pillars of the Democratic Party, as in the unequivocal advocacy for the working people.

00:04:48.000 Take an issue like health.

00:04:51.000 How will it be possible to make the kind of significant changes that are required in the area of health, the way that it's funded and the way that it's administered, when big food has such coercive power over policy and the ability to promote and fund detrimental food sources?

00:05:10.000 And when Big Pharma, through lobbying, donation and influence over regulation, has such significant power, but one example being the refusal to evoke the law that would prohibit a cancer drug being sold profitably.

00:05:24.000 How can you change health without changing the corporatization of America, the corporatization of food and pharma?

00:05:33.000 Well, I mentioned on the debate stage in the last election exactly what you just said.

00:05:38.000 We don't have a healthcare system.

00:05:39.000 We have a sickness care system.

00:05:41.000 We have to ask ourselves, why do Americans have such a higher rate of chronic illness than, for instance, the Europeans do?

00:05:49.000 And, as you just said, and as I said at the debates, for that, you have to talk about more than just the health insurance companies, more than pharmaceutical.

00:05:57.000 You have to talk about big agriculture.

00:05:59.000 You have to talk about the chemical companies.

00:06:01.000 And, of course, you have to talk about big food.

00:06:03.000 The corporatocracy itself puts short-term profit maximization—and when I say the corporatocracy, I mean all of them—insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, big food, big ag, big chemical, gun manufacturers, big oil and defense contractors.

00:06:18.000 It serves us to see they're all one big matrix of corporate What is, at this point, tyranny, OK?

00:06:24.000 And as long as they are put in short-term corporate maximization for themselves, and as long as the government supports them in that more than not, then that will be at the expense of the safety and the health and the well-being of the American people, animals, our children and our planet itself.

00:06:42.000 And this has taken us on a trajectory that is now more than unsustainable.

00:06:47.000 It is Self-destructive to our democracy and possibly long-term to our species.

00:06:55.000 When, Marianne, the American economy appears to require war in order to sustain itself, and when the military-industrial complex has such significant power, again through lobbying, again through donation, when we have the slightly absurd spectre of an event like Gay Pride, which has always been a counter-cultural movement, being sponsored by Lockheed Martin, what does it tell us about where our values are?

00:07:23.000 And may I fold into this question, forgive me, what do you think is a greater threat to global peace?

00:07:30.000 Is it despots like Vladimir Putin and that he's admittedly criminal invasion of Ukraine, which many people believe was subsequent to a great deal of provocation from NATO, or is it an economic system that plainly and explicitly requires war to remain in business?

00:07:50.000 I would disagree with the word requires, and you used it twice.

00:07:53.000 We have a war economy.

00:07:55.000 We have about 51 percent of the American economy that is at least indirectly related to the defense industry.

00:08:02.000 But it doesn't have to be that way, just as we have to make a just We have to make a just transition from a dirty economy to a clean economy.

00:08:10.000 We have to make a just transition from a war economy to a peace economy.

00:08:15.000 And in terms of—the reason the word requires is inappropriate there is because the return on investment is much greater when you're talking about money that is given to health, that is given to education.

00:08:27.000 It only is required by those small Donor class, the 1 percent of Americans who make so much money on it, it's only required by Raytheon, by Northrop Grumman, by Boeing and by their stockholders.

00:08:41.000 So, this is a change that we need to make.

00:08:44.000 In the meantime, the vast economic power and governmental power and the undue influence of the military-industrial complex on our government does create a problem in the world.

00:08:55.000 And that goes back to the second thing you said, how much the military-industrial complex

00:09:00.000 and the short-term profit maximization of defense contractors and that industry prevails

00:09:07.000 within American foreign policy, to an evil degree.

00:09:11.000 We saw it with—well, we saw it with Vietnam, but we certainly saw it with Iraq. 0.98

00:09:15.000 We saw it with staying in Afghanistan probably 20 years longer than we should have.

00:09:22.000 And certainly, it's a complicated issue in Ukraine today.

00:09:27.000 I'm glad that you made the point that we should not be apologizing for the brutal invasion Vladimir Putin, at the same time it is naive of us to fail to recognize, at the very least, the meddling on the part of the U.S.

00:09:46.000 defense establishment and the domestic affairs of Ukraine.

00:09:49.000 One of the stories we covered on the show was how the International Criminal Court could not call upon the United States for evidence because if they were to participate in that trial, it would reveal the degree to which they had been involved in criminal wars themselves.

00:10:03.000 We're not a part of the court.

00:10:05.000 And the reason we're not a member of the court is because there's too great a chance that they would come after George Bush and Dick Cheney.

00:10:12.000 So we have, you know, for us to be now going on and on and on about other people who have caused wars that should not have been fought.

00:10:19.000 The world sees the hypocrisy and the American people are beginning to see the threat that all that represents to our democracy itself.

00:10:25.000 How did it feel standing as a candidate for the Democrat Party knowing that within living memory, and in fact recent memory, it was figures like Cheney and Bush and Wolfowitz that were regarded as the hawkish figureheads of militarism and now we have to accept that it is Joe Biden that said I'll make Saudi Arabia a pariah before doing weapons deals and oils deals and facilitating military deals from the LGBTQ plus communities friends at Lockheed Martin. 0.97

00:10:55.000 How does it feel to see as Tulsi Gabbard acknowledges, recognize that the Democrat

00:11:01.000 Party has become co-opted by the military-industrial complex. And how do you reverse a

00:11:06.000 process that at this point seems so entrenched and institutionalized?

00:11:11.000 This is not just about the military-industrial complex.

00:11:13.000 This is about corporate power itself.

00:11:16.000 As long as corporate power, all of these corporations that we've talked about, all of these entities,

00:11:20.000 as long as they have the undue financial influence on our Congress and on our White House at

00:11:26.000 this point, that they do, then our government has become basically a system of legalized

00:11:30.000 bribery. So, it's not—you know, I don't want to—none of this conversation should

00:11:35.000 in any way make nice towards the Republican Party, by the way.

00:11:40.000 But it's been for decades.

00:11:41.000 This didn't start with Joe Biden, that you see the same kind of undue corporate influence among the Democrats, in too many cases, that you see among the Republicans.

00:11:50.000 It's strange though, we covered this today, that it's Rand Paul that's saying we need to challenge the Forever Wars Emergency Act Bill that's being taken through Congress currently.

00:12:00.000 That it's coming from figures, libertarians within the right, that are most willing, it seems to me, other than the candidature of yourself and RFK, to challenge the kind of establishment power that you are outlining and describing.

00:12:14.000 Are you saying therefore, Marianne, that you think that it's wrong to accept Is it funding from Big Food that is wrong to allow Big Food and Big Pharma to fund their own regulatory bodies?

00:12:24.000 Of course it's wrong.

00:12:26.000 It's more than wrong. 0.72

00:12:27.000 It is corrupt.

00:12:28.000 These agencies are set up to advocate for the American people.

00:12:32.000 But what has happened over the last few decades is what's called agency capture, that at the very best, the U.S.

00:12:37.000 government too often acts as a kind of double advocate.

00:12:41.000 Let's take something like Department of Agriculture.

00:12:44.000 The Department of Agriculture should not be led by somebody from Big Ag.

00:12:48.000 Hello!

00:12:49.000 Let's say something like the very secretary of defense.

00:12:54.000 Traditionally, the secretary of defense was not to be a military man.

00:12:57.000 And the last thing that the secretary of defense should be is someone who comes from the defense industry.

00:13:03.000 Now, with Trump, Trump made General Mattis a military man.

00:13:07.000 This is what's so dangerous in this country.

00:13:09.000 I'm old enough to remember, wait, we're not supposed to do that.

00:13:13.000 But you have too many younger generations who don't even remember a time—they don't have it in their institutional memory—when people would go, hey, you're not supposed to do that.

00:13:22.000 And people in Congress who even know it won't say anything.

00:13:25.000 Now, what they did with Biden, not only is our Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, a former general, he is a former president.

00:13:33.000 Board member at Raytheon.

00:13:36.000 This is outrageous.

00:13:37.000 And, by the way, they use race as a cover, because what legislator is going to stand up and complain, right?

00:13:44.000 Now, isn't it interesting?

00:13:46.000 You have reports coming out now about the unbelievable price gouging on the part of the defense industry of the U.S.

00:13:53.000 military.

00:13:53.000 And remember, one of the first things I would do is audit the Pentagon every cent, because it's not even audited.

00:14:00.000 But if we have a former Raytheon board member who is a secretary of defense, what's going on that there is such price gouging?

00:14:10.000 That's what we're talking about here.

00:14:11.000 We're talking about unbelievable corruption.

00:14:14.000 Unbelievable corruption must have, at its essence, a warped and broken set of values.

00:14:21.000 Yeah, it does.

00:14:22.000 Of course, prior to your incarnation as a political figure, you are most well known for your work in the area of spirituality and wellness, which I know can be regarded unfairly, I think, as somehow unsubstantial or insubstantial.

00:14:42.000 What I feel is that there is a lack of integrity in politics that you alluded to then.

00:14:48.000 There's no one saying that you shouldn't be doing this.

00:14:50.000 There's no one pointing out the obvious fact that you shouldn't have board members of weapons manufacturers within the Pentagon advocating for further deals.

00:15:00.000 How do you feel, and what do you feel, is the appropriate role for spirituality in politics?

00:15:07.000 What are we going to do about this kind of moral abyss at the heart of our global politics?

00:15:12.000 And this kind of, I want to almost say, institutionalized self-centeredness that you see, it seems to me, in figures like, and I know a lot of you love Donald Trump, but he is a pretty egocentric kind of guy, And then career politicians like Joe Biden who, for me, while even when seeming convivial, appears to be an entrenched old-school politician who's there to represent establishment values.

00:15:38.000 What do we do about this self-centredness?

00:15:40.000 In our politics over here in the UK, Boris Johnson, it's like you're dealing with man-child mentality, unawakened, uninitiated people.

00:15:49.000 How do you suggest that those kind of cultural changes could be made and how are we suffering as a result of the lack of those changes?

00:15:56.000 I want to start by saying the first time I ever heard you speak publicly.

00:16:00.000 It was at a luncheon in Los Angeles for a home, I think, for women.

00:16:06.000 You were so extraordinary.

00:16:08.000 You, so I really want to thank you, because you are one of the people who has helped elevate, for those of us who have heard you, and I don't know how much you've done this in broader mainstream circles, but you, more than anyone that I've ever heard, has talked about spiritual principles, issues of whether it's AA or any other, and how serious they are, and how substantial they are.

00:16:29.000 Now, in terms of the effect of a lack of spiritual principle on personal behavior or political behavior, when you have a lack of conscience, when you have a lack of remorse, when you have a complete lack of any sense of responsibility, moral responsibility to people, to life, to planet, that's called sociopathic.

00:16:51.000 It is considered, and rightfully so, in terms of personal behavior, a malevolence, a deadly malevolence.

00:16:58.000 Now we need to recognize that our economic system is at this point.

00:17:03.000 When you're talking about hypercapitalism, when you're talking about unfettered capitalism, it is a sociopathic public phenomenon.

00:17:11.000 Even Adam Smith, who was the primary architect of free market capitalism, said, it cannot exist outside an ethical context.

00:17:23.000 So, what's happened is that capitalism has completely gone off the rails.

00:17:27.000 And there is this—has been for the last 40 years or so—this canard, this wool over people's eyes, where people are supposed to agree that that's a good idea.

00:17:38.000 Because the argument was, well, it's really good, see, if you just move all the money into the hands of the stockholders, even though it's at the expense of the safety of the workers, at the expense of the benefits of the workers, at the expense of the community, at the expense of the environment, People were told—and this is such a delusional, malevolent canard—it's going to be good, because those people who are going to get all that money, they're going to create jobs, see, and all that money will trickle down, and it will lift all boats.

00:18:11.000 Well, it's now 40 years later.

00:18:13.000 The jury's in.

00:18:15.000 It not only did not lift all boats, it has left millions and millions and millions of people without even a life vest.

00:18:22.000 It has destroyed America's middle class.

00:18:24.000 Those people's modality is not to create jobs.

00:18:28.000 It's to eliminate jobs.

00:18:30.000 It's to optimize their profit and their profit alone. 0.74

00:18:34.000 It is a sociopathic, immoral, ultimately evil paradigm.

00:18:40.000 And what's happening now is that people are waking up on the left and on the right.

00:18:44.000 They are realizing this is forming a system of corporate tyranny.

00:18:48.000 They are realizing that the government is enabling this, that too often our public policies

00:18:53.000 chop the wood and carry the water for that tyranny. 1.00

00:18:57.000 And the American people are ready for a peaceful revolution, a political revolution, to repudiate

00:19:02.000 it as we've repudiated such injustices in our past.

00:19:06.000 How do you imagine that you will be able to convey this message that has some complexity

00:19:12.000 within it when the mainstream media are housed within the set of corporate interests that

00:19:20.000 you have already outlined?

00:19:22.000 Marianne, and even appearing on platforms like this, it's possible that you will be charged with participating in platforms that carry conspiracy theories, that are alt-right, because entire platforms are now being dismissed as somehow morally unhygienic.

00:19:42.000 I think solely on the basis that we are willing to carry alternative voices, that we are willing to challenge establishment power, that we have no alliance to the Republican Party, Well I'm already in the belly of that beast and I know what they did to me last time, I know what they're doing this time.

00:19:57.000 will be heard sufficiently to carry some support within the movement?

00:20:02.000 Well, I'm already in the belly of that beast, and I know what they did to me last time,

00:20:06.000 I know what they're doing this time.

00:20:08.000 With some people, they just de-platform you.

00:20:11.000 Fortunately, you're Russell Brand, they can't de-platform, they're not going to de-platform

00:20:15.000 you.

00:20:15.000 In the cases of some people, such as myself, they don't de-platform you, it's more insidious than that.

00:20:22.000 They just pervert your platform.

00:20:24.000 They create a caricature of who you are and what you're saying and what you've done with your life,

00:20:30.000 just to throw enough dust over people's eyes so they won't listen to you.

00:20:33.000 There is a political media industrial complex.

00:20:37.000 So, when you ask how you're going to do it, you just keep going.

00:20:42.000 I do believe the American people are waking up.

00:20:44.000 The American people are waking up.

00:20:45.000 We're at the beginning of a political earthquake right now.

00:20:49.000 More people are nodding their heads, listening to this conversation, than probably were five years ago.

00:20:55.000 Why are you willing to put yourself in a position of personal jeopardy?

00:21:00.000 I imagine that you're financially secure and secure in a number of other ways.

00:21:04.000 Why are you willing to put yourself in such a position of jeopardy?

00:21:10.000 My father died in 1995.

00:21:11.000 I think I'm still trying to get his approval.

00:21:15.000 My father used to, you know, my father used to walk around the house when we were kids.

00:21:19.000 Beat the system, kids.

00:21:20.000 Beat the system, kids.

00:21:22.000 And I think it took me until I was 50 years old to know he actually wasn't kidding. 1.00

00:21:26.000 And he used to say, don't let the bastards get to you. 0.99

00:21:29.000 I have seen how this country, my country, and how this system works, as I know you have as well. 0.99

00:21:35.000 And when you travel in certain circles, you figure it out.

00:21:39.000 You go, wow. 0.98

00:21:41.000 And I don't, you know, I want to be able to look at myself the last day of my life and go, I kicked ass while I was here. 1.00

00:21:47.000 I didn't let the bastards get me down. 0.99

00:21:49.000 That's what I want. 1.00

00:21:51.000 Yeah, it's a powerful message and it's a personal risk.

00:21:55.000 It's interesting to know that both political parties have to, in different ways, elicit the support of, let's say, kind of Christian interest, knowing that what those value sets are meant to be representative of are Spirituality, kindness, decency, morality, but sometimes they become representative of a slightly more murky set of interests.

00:22:20.000 But I think that what people are craving are genuine values, integrity, authenticity, service, willingness to sacrifice yourself in favor of a greater cause.

00:22:33.000 It seems to me that Our values have been kind of hollowed out and we have the appearance of compassion but not the delivery of compassion.

00:22:41.000 We have gestures and performance in place of real sacrifice.

00:22:46.000 But when you arrive at a point where the party that claims to be liberal operates so plainly on behalf of elite interests that we are at a point of, as you say, Peaceful revolution.

00:23:01.000 It's interesting to watch it unfold because I don't suppose that you imagined that you would find yourself in this position when you were a successful author or becoming a spiritual teacher or and having roles that are not easy really to define actually because the culture doesn't really frame people in that way anymore.

00:23:20.000 In a secular culture we're kind of that's been absented somehow and yet politics requires it and public life requires it.

00:23:26.000 The over-secularization of America's political dialogue has not actually served us.

00:23:32.000 And that over-secularization—and I don't mean a removal of religious language, because we are—I think political dialogue, being secular, is important, but that doesn't mean it should be devoid of spiritual values.

00:23:46.000 And the spiritual values that you just indicated are not just Christian.

00:23:49.000 They are universal spiritual values at the heart of all the great religious systems of the world.

00:23:54.000 Now, Christian nationalism is—people are seeing it for what it is.

00:23:58.000 The Bible does not talk about how, you know, what you should do is give tax cuts to the very, very richest people.

00:24:04.000 That's not a biblical precept.

00:24:07.000 So, people—there is a spiritual revolution going on on the planet.

00:24:12.000 And people are recognizing—certainly I recognize, and I believe there is a listening for this—that our public behavior, our political behavior, who we are collectively, cannot be devoid of moral values any more than our individual lives can be and have a life that works.

00:24:32.000 You know, I think that we're living at a time of two simultaneous phenomenon.

00:24:37.000 On one hand, there is a world that is crumbling before our eyes, an old order of organization, and we see the signs of this crumbling everywhere.

00:24:48.000 But at the same time, you see that world that is struggling to be born.

00:24:52.000 And we are called to be midwives both to the death of one world and midwives to the birth of another.

00:25:00.000 And the world that we want is a world in which we take the best of the old and bring forth and reclaim, bring back into our public and collective lives principles like mercy, compassion, humility, forgiveness, integrity, kindness, If you see a hungry child, you feed that child.

00:25:21.000 If you look at the earth, you know, you remember this was God's creation.

00:25:25.000 It was given to us to be proper stewards.

00:25:27.000 You don't desecrate it so a bunch of oil companies can make a lot of money.

00:25:33.000 I think that a lot of people are processing all of this right now, and that's why I believe that there is a political possibility that lies before us.

00:25:43.000 Right now, where we are now is unsustainable.

00:25:48.000 There is going to be this political earthquake.

00:25:51.000 You can already feel the rumbling.

00:25:53.000 It's going to go one way or the other.

00:25:55.000 It's either going to be in the direction of democracy and justice, or it's going to be in the direction of autocracy and authoritarianism.

00:26:04.000 And that's why I think it's important for all of us to decide which are we going to contribute our own energies toward, because There's, there's, you can't be neutral at this point.

00:26:16.000 Being neutral is serving the oppressor.

00:26:18.000 I believe you and I agree with you and I fancy that this line between democracy and compassion and autocracy and tyranny is no longer, we can no longer claim it's drawn down the line between the two parties.

00:26:34.000 It's plain that there is a version of centralized authoritarianism that has emerged out of the

00:26:39.000 Democratic Party in your analysis since Bill Clinton but for me is now reaching

00:26:45.000 I hope it's Zenith or Nadir depending on how you regard it. It's plain that after

00:26:51.000 2008 and Barack Obama's decision to bail out the banks rather than bailing

00:26:55.000 out ordinary Americans and we've since seen nobody prosecuted,

00:26:58.000 persecuted or held accountable for those financial crimes and transgressions

00:27:04.000 that we can no longer confidently claim that either party or any individuals

00:27:09.000 within it have any moral high ground and I think that continuing the conversation

00:27:14.000 along partisan lines is reductive. I know you've said many times

00:27:18.000 when I've asked you before Marianne that it's important to change the

00:27:21.000 system from within it and change the system outside of it that you don't have to

00:27:25.000 choose one of those options you have to do both of them

00:27:29.000 And I appreciate the work that you're doing within it and the manner with which you're carrying it out.

00:27:36.000 Are you concerned even in your discourse about presenting a partisan perspective when something bigger than that appears to be required, by my reckoning at least?

00:27:47.000 Well, I actually don't agree with you about the moral equivalence between the two parties.

00:27:52.000 I do think one is worse.

00:27:53.000 And I do think that the voices of people who are standing forth and saying, let us have a profound Democratic correction, in 99 percent of the time are within the Democratic rather than the Republican Party, sometimes in third parties, sometimes even outside parties.

00:28:09.000 So, I wouldn't be running as a Democrat if I did not feel a personal choice to be part

00:28:16.000 of the effort to reclaim the soul of the Democratic Party.

00:28:19.000 Now, having said that, I hope that there are people—and I think that there probably are—who

00:28:23.000 are trying to reclaim the soul of the Republican Party, as well.

00:28:27.000 I think that some people are feeling—I mean, obviously, look at Cornell running as a third-party

00:28:31.000 candidate.

00:28:33.000 When you look at the history of the United States, third-party voices have been extremely

00:28:37.000 important.

00:28:38.000 Abolition came from the Abolitionist Party.

00:28:40.000 Women's suffrage came from the Women's Party. 0.91

00:28:43.000 Social Security came from the Socialist Party.

00:28:46.000 So, no, I'm not a fan of the way, over the last few decades, The Democratic and the Republican Party have formed this unholy alliance, making it very difficult for third-party voices to be heard.

00:28:57.000 And, you know, George Washington, our first president, warned us about political parties.

00:29:02.000 In his farewell address, he said it would form factions of men more concerned with their party than with their country.

00:29:10.000 Well, clearly, that has come true.

00:29:12.000 President John Adams said that he saw political parties as the greatest threat to our democracy.

00:29:18.000 At this point, every individual has to decide, and I don't think that there's a right or a wrong answer, because it's one more area where there's a whole systems breakdown, and we have to give a whole systems response and do whatever you feel is the best way, best thing you can do to serve the larger sense of repair.

00:29:36.000 For me, take something like debating the president.

00:29:39.000 If I weren't running as a Democrat, I couldn't You need to debate your opponents.

00:29:48.000 It's because I'm running as a Democrat that I can do that.

00:29:50.000 So everybody has to do what they think.

00:29:53.000 I don't think there's a right or wrong answer there.

00:29:55.000 Why is Joe Biden not debating you and RFK?

00:29:59.000 Why is that?

00:30:00.000 I don't know.

00:30:00.000 Why do you think?

00:30:01.000 I mean, come on, let's be real.

00:30:03.000 They think that they can just shoehorn in the president.

00:30:06.000 And it makes no sense, because if the president cannot take on Bobby Kennedy and myself in a debate, why should we feel confident that he will do well taking on DeSantis or Trump in a debate, or any of the other Republicans?

00:30:21.000 Theoretically, it would only make him a stronger candidate.

00:30:25.000 People should have—in a democracy, as you were saying before, in a democracy, people should have as wide an array of options as present themselves.

00:30:34.000 Bobby has one view.

00:30:36.000 I have one view.

00:30:37.000 The president has one view.

00:30:39.000 Some places, they overlap.

00:30:43.000 Some places, they don't.

00:30:45.000 But a political campaign is a long job interview, and you interview all of the people who are applying for the job.

00:30:53.000 They should—they should meet Bobby.

00:30:55.000 They should meet me.

00:30:56.000 They should meet the president and hear our agendas.

00:30:58.000 And right now, it's not just the DNC, but it's also their minions in the corporate media, who are doing everything possible to make sure that the likely Democratic voters do not meet in the way that is clear and meaningful, the president's opponents in this primary.

00:31:14.000 It's clear that at a time when many people think that the Biden administration has something to hide, I'm speaking specifically of the at the moment absolutely denied allegation that Biden took a five million bribe during his time as VP.

00:31:28.000 Now that we know that the Hunter Biden laptop story was repressed, Biden's unwillingness

00:31:35.000 to debate people within the Democratic Party that at least superficially would appear or

00:31:41.000 seem to have the same basic rubric of beliefs, i.e. they are within the Democratic Party,

00:31:47.000 is a suggestion that if there isn't something to hide, and let me know in the chat and the

00:31:51.000 comments what you think, there certainly appears to be fear, fear around having conversation

00:31:56.000 with people perhaps with more moral integrity.

00:31:59.000 Let me know what you think in the chat and the comments.

00:32:01.000 Gareth Roy is my favourite journalist online.

00:32:03.000 Gareth, do you have any conversations for Marianne Williamson?

00:32:06.000 Or have I done such a brilliant investigation that there's literally no territory?

00:32:11.000 You usually manage to add to these conversations.

00:32:14.000 I wonder what you'd like to add this time?

00:32:16.000 No, I think it's been a great interview and I think it's given us a chance to hear some of your very strong views about the corporatisation of politics, which I think a lot of our audience feel very strongly and passionately about.

00:32:32.000 I think, as Russell mentioned, the 2008 crash, I think also the pandemic, During which of which there was a wealth transfer, I think people started to, I think from both sides, started to feel like this myth that they'd been told for a long time about trickle-down economics and how capitalism's working started to really see up close how it wasn't working and how it was kind of at warp speeds not working for them.

00:33:04.000 I just wondered, from your perspective, do you feel like change is inevitable?

00:33:11.000 We seem to be at a point whereby you're doing very well in the polls, RFK's doing very well in the polls.

00:33:17.000 In the way that maybe Donald Trump talked about draining the swamp, that sentiment seems to be something that I think voters from both sides Are now, have really bought into the idea that there has to be change to the corporatisation of politics.

00:33:34.000 Do you feel that if, we have a lot of our viewers who are often quite despondent about change, who ask, what can we do?

00:33:42.000 How can things change?

00:33:43.000 Aren't the odds stacked against us?

00:33:45.000 You know, will anything ever fundamentally change?

00:33:48.000 Do you feel that it's inevitable that it will if things continue to go in the direction that they are?

00:33:53.000 No, it's not inevitable.

00:33:56.000 An addict can die.

00:33:58.000 You know, we need to end our magical thinking that, oh, our democracy will be OK, oh, our institutions will hold.

00:34:05.000 We've seen enough happen in the last few decades that it should convince any reasonable person that our institutions are fragile and they are, in many ways, under attack.

00:34:15.000 I see authoritarianism as an attack on our democracy from the outside, but this kind of trickle-down economics on federal capitalism, neoliberalism, is eroding it from the inside.

00:34:25.000 So, no, it's time for Americans to wake up.

00:34:29.000 There is no doubt about that.

00:34:31.000 It is not a guarantee that our democracy will survive.

00:34:34.000 However, if you look at the trajectory of American history, we have course-corrected before.

00:34:41.000 You know, it's Winston Churchill who said, you can always count on Americans to do the right thing after they have exhausted every other option.

00:34:49.000 We often get there late.

00:34:50.000 That's sort of our characterological propensity.

00:34:54.000 We sort of like—we're kind of like distracted, but boy, once we get it.

00:34:58.000 So, this is—mine is a country that ultimately responded to slavery with abolition.

00:35:06.000 Ultimately responded to the institutional suppression of women with the Women's Movement and the 19th Amendment, that ultimately responded to the Gilded Age with the labor movement, that ultimately responded to segregation with the civil rights movement.

00:35:20.000 This is—what we are going through now is simply the latest iteration of a struggle that has baked into the cake in my country, that has been with us from the very beginning.

00:35:31.000 We have always been a country which is struggling, this almost bipolar nature, on one hand, based on these extraordinarily enlightened principles, and at the—on the other hand, containing forces, starting with slavery, who, for their own ideological and financial purposes, Had no intention whatsoever of seeing those principles realized and would go to great lengths, even violent ones, to make sure that they did not.

00:36:00.000 So, what we're experiencing now, it's just our turn.

00:36:04.000 Do I think it's possible for us to do what our ancestors did?

00:36:08.000 To rise up, to figure this out, to say, hell no, no way, and push back?

00:36:14.000 Absolutely, it's possible.

00:36:16.000 Is it inevitable?

00:36:17.000 No.

00:36:20.000 What will it take?

00:36:20.000 It will take a lot of things.

00:36:22.000 It will take a strong labor movement, which is why the regeneration and revitalization of the labor movement going on in this country, in my country right now, is a really good thing.

00:36:32.000 But we can't leave out electoral politics.

00:36:35.000 And it would be very, very helpful right now to have a president who laid it down and told it like it is.

00:36:41.000 And that's the last one we really had like that was Franklin Roosevelt.

00:36:44.000 And it's time for another Rooseveltian character.

00:36:46.000 Thank you, Marianne.

00:36:48.000 Certainly, if a new poll is to be believed, the American public, even those that define

00:36:55.000 themselves as Democrats, want debates.

00:36:57.000 A recent poll says that eight in ten Democratic primary voters want Joe Biden to debate.

00:37:01.000 Let us know what you think in the chat and comments.

00:37:03.000 On Locals, which you can join by the way by pressing the red button, it's on your screen now.

00:37:09.000 The Karen Dorn says, I owe all of my works in the animal rights world to Marianne Williamson.

00:37:13.000 I used to sing in the choir before lectures at the town hall in New York City.

00:37:17.000 Though animal rights are not the top of her priority list, they moved me more than anything else and she inspired me to devote my life to what mattered most to me, to shine my light and to pray use me.

00:37:26.000 She is one of the most Inspiring people on the planet.

00:37:30.000 So you're having a real impact over here.

00:37:32.000 Elsewhere, people are commenting on Gareth's tan and saying that Gareth looks very well.

00:37:37.000 So there's an entire gamut of emotions and opinions.

00:37:40.000 Marianne, thank you so much for devoting your time to us today on the show.

00:37:44.000 It's fantastic to hear you.

00:37:45.000 And I certainly, for one, would enjoy the opportunity to see you debate Joe Biden.

00:37:49.000 And I think, well, evidently, based on that poll, a lot of people would enjoy that.

00:37:52.000 Thank you very much for joining us.

00:37:53.000 Thank you.

00:37:54.000 Thank you so much.

00:37:55.000 Congratulations also on your grandchild, if I may say.

00:37:57.000 Thank you.

00:37:58.000 Fantastic.

00:37:59.000 And if you're in the country in the middle of July, we'd love you to appear at our event, Community.

00:38:03.000 We've got some fantastic people here.

00:38:05.000 Or are you going to be busy campaigning to be the president?

00:38:07.000 No, at that point in July I'll be back in the States, but thank you.

00:38:10.000 But I'll be back a lot with that new grandbaby.

00:38:12.000 Try and be a president.

00:38:13.000 Oh yeah, you've got to come back and see your grandbaby.

00:38:14.000 Thank you.

00:38:15.000 To follow Marianne's campaign, go to marianne2024.com and continue to advocate for democracy, I would say, across the spectrum in any way possible.

00:38:26.000 That's all we've got time for this week, but to join our locals community, you've just got to press the red button.

00:38:29.000 You can hit us up with your comments and stuff and you get lots of podcasts, meditations and all sorts of inside information.

00:38:36.000 Thanks once again, Marianne Williamson.

00:38:37.000 Thank you.

00:38:38.000 Well done, Gareth Roy.

00:38:40.000 Join us next week, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

00:38:42.000 Until then, stay free.

00:38:44.000 Many switches, switch on, switch off.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - June 16, 2023

Marianne Williamson (Fighting The System)

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