Russell Brand is joined by Joe McCann and Dave Fields to discuss the upcoming protest march in the UK on the 13th of September, and the new documentary 'Panorama' about how the British media framed Tommy Robinson as a sex offender.
00:00:18.000Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:00:21.000Because we did our interview with Tommy Robinson recently, and because on the 13th of September there is a protest march in the United Kingdom that Tommy Robinson is a participant in organising.
00:00:32.000And of course, because I've got a vested interest in looking at the behaviour of British media when it comes to well, what Tommy Robinson says is that British media organizations were going to set him up for a sting and falsely accuse him of sex crimes.
00:00:46.000Now, this came up in the conversation with Tommy and I. He talked about his documentary Panadrama.
00:00:50.000So for today's watch along, we're gonna have a look at it with my beloved friends, Dave Fields, our producer and my dear friend Jake Smith, and join us from the UK, our correspondent Joe McCann.
00:01:16.000I'm sceptical, do you know what I mean?
00:01:18.000I've got a lot of people that are considering it that are considering going, and like and I suppose people have them doubts about what it represents.
00:01:30.000This bloke, Gavin DeBecker, uh who's a sort of a brilliant writer and who I met through Bobby Kennedy, has told me to read this book called The Brass Check.
00:01:39.000And the brass check talks about how from the beginning media organisations have been owned by a small group of people that censorship is not a um a modern phenomena and propaganda and the control of information has always been more coordinated than we imagined.
00:01:58.000And the brass check is sort of about how that takes place.
00:02:02.000And when you sort of when you read that, and it's using examples where it's talking about American politics in the 1930s.
00:02:08.000There's like a guy called Jack London, I think it's the writer Jack London, and I don't know, he spoke out in favour of I think certain socialist ideas.
00:02:16.000And like American newspapers like the New York Times and other sort of, you know, it's more sort of state-organised American print media, and certainly it was then, all like ran space of negative articles on him, stuff that weren't true, and I thought like, well, this has always been the way that media has operated.
00:02:34.000And when I just had an example like that that for me had no heat in it, I don't really know much about Jack London or who he is.
00:02:39.000I don't have the same affiliation with America, don't know much about that period in American history.
00:02:44.000But to sort of hear that media has always been like that, made me think about someone like Tommy Robinson, particularly because I've experienced it myself, and how much if someone is having an impact on the way that people are communicated with, how what kind of forces will go to work on ensuring that you hate that person.
00:03:02.000They'll just say whatever they need to say.
00:03:04.000So when I was talking to Tommy Robinson, I was thinking, how much of these feelings or thoughts that I have about him are things that I know, and how much of it's just stuff I've read, heard, had pushed down my throat.
00:03:16.000Because when I talk to him, it's like talking to someone I went to school with.
00:03:25.000So like the reason I mentioned all that about Tommy Robinson is course because the interview's out and we'd love you to watch it.
00:03:29.000Of course, because we talk about September the first, even of course, at his recommendation.
00:03:33.000We're watching Panorma, which is a documentary Tommy Robinson's made about how panorama, which is a bit like 60 minutes in your country, a show that it's like an in-depth look at the news, tried to set him up and frame him as a sex criminal,
00:03:49.000and they had talked to like people that work with him, manipulated him, suggested stuff, and in some instances paid people, and in some cases, you know, I wonder if they'd have gone as far as to get actors to play people in a documentary, something that I've got personal experience of to frame him.
00:04:04.000So we're gonna watch that panorama and uh it'll be interesting for you, Watch it Joe.
00:04:10.000And it'll be interesting for you, Dave, because like I went Dave has been kind enough to travel to the UK with me for many of the preliminary hearings that I've had to attend as a part of the court process.
00:04:22.000You know, as you know, I'm standing trial in the UK in June next year.
00:05:14.000You had your whole kids there and everything like that.
00:05:17.000It was like I seem to remember it being a what's really weird is because it's obviously incredibly stressful to be accused of the things I've been accused of.
00:05:25.000But like we've sort of had quite a nice time, won't we?
00:05:27.000Like sometimes even in the old crown courts, it's been like alright.
00:05:44.000Like, yeah, I've never felt the closeness of God, except for my God, birth of my children, and sometimes moments in solitary prayer.
00:05:52.000But it's a very surprising way to feel the presence of God.
00:05:56.000Of course, God is present all the time.
00:05:58.000God is always present, not just when you're in some beautiful environment with a cascade in waterfall or some beauty, you know, when you're in like Walmart or Azta, you know, God is with you, God is in there.
00:06:09.000And like I've got to get myself to that state.
00:06:12.000I can't be conditional about when I'm connecting with God.
00:06:14.000I've got to be in continual, constant contact with God.
00:06:17.000Otherwise, the option is I get suicidal despair.
00:06:20.000And I think that's probably what defines addicts as opposed to non-addicts.
00:06:24.000Not that I'm saying there ain't a variety of addiction issues.
00:06:26.000People might be addicted to screens, pornography, food.
00:06:30.000But you know, people like me and uh Joe and Dave, where our experiences of addiction are chemical dependency first and foremost, and I and it's largely understood that that is a craving for God.
00:06:43.000Now, like any sort of group or movement that we support, I reckon it should be contingent on the basis that we're doing the Lord's work, the Lord's work.
00:06:52.000And like in the conversations I've had with Tommy around the interview, I've been just talking about Jesus because I don't know what's right for Britain, I don't know what's right for America, I don't even know what's right for me and my kids half the time.
00:07:04.000But what I do know is that without surrendering to Jesus Christ and without his sacrifice, I'm in a lot of serious trouble.
00:08:04.000Panorama then contact me to interview me.
00:08:07.000They were doing a documentary on me, obviously.
00:08:10.000When they're doing documentary on me, I sent a girl undercover into them, and I've got her to wear a wire, and I get I'll get them all talking, making things up, telling people what to say.
00:08:34.000The produ you have you have the cameraman and the editor, you don't have all the producers, but when they come for me, because this was a takedown, they were gonna end it.
00:08:41.000When they come to sit there, there's about eight of them, and there was the producers sat there.
00:08:45.000So when they ask me the first question, I said, Can I ask you a question, John?
00:08:49.000Would you ever tell anyone what to say in an interview?
00:10:15.000Like the left, like when I was sort of more part or more associated with the left.
00:10:20.000My version of the left, by the way, was anti-establishment, pro-free speech, sort out the relationships between government and big business, we're being lied to, the media, but that it was the same.
00:10:29.000None of my opinions have actually changed, other than I've surrendered to God and try and not be such a selfish idiot.
00:10:34.000Anyway, I will feel the reason I wasn't focused on the reason Tommy Robinson, I was interested in him is he's a football fan, he's a normal working class man, and he's able to create this kind of interest.
00:10:48.000So no, like whether even even if he was evil or the world's nicest person, I'll tell you now that the media in Britain would go, he's an he's a pedo, he's the worst person imaginable, because they can't have someone that can get drum up a crowd like that in Manchester, becoming more successful and prominent.
00:11:06.000So in the interview, he said he hated you, right, before he wrote the new year and before all your change and all that.
00:11:12.000And you said you actually still, even in y'all's disagreement, like watching him now, you could still respect him and you could see a strength even if you disagreed on policy, even back in the day, right?
00:11:26.000So that means like, I mean, for me, I look at that, I was like, you've always kind of been a free thinker, no matter what they told you you're supposed to believe.
00:11:34.000I was always against the government, I was always against the media, I was always against big business.
00:11:38.000But what was weird is I was earning all of the money out of media, and I was like, sort of, and also I was ambitious, I wanted to be a star.
00:11:45.000I wanted to be a movie star and a star comedian.
00:11:48.000And then when those things happened, and it was like really all it was was access to sleeping with women and money.
00:11:56.000It was like it weren't enjoyable for itself.
00:11:59.000Comedy, you can perform in front of 20 people above a pub or 10,000 people at an arena.
00:12:05.000If you're in the spirit, it'll be enjoyable.
00:12:08.000Now, with Tommy Robinson, like what I thought was I like the way that he is accessed working class people and has a focal point of their passions, and he's right, they are being ripped off.
00:12:21.000I've just always thought that the focus should not be migration, because my feeling has always been about power, that when you're if you want to change the power dynamics in a country or anywhere, actually, you're fundamentally going to be dealing with whoever currently has that power.
00:12:37.000Migrants, whether you agree with migration or not, are not the source of the power.
00:12:43.000You could argue they're the beneficiaries of power if there's an open border policy in the United States or the UK are around too many people over on boats or unregulated migration or whatever it is that people are concerned about, or primarily the concern appears to be the non um the inability for assimilation for people that hold the faith of Islam.
00:13:04.000That seems to be, but that's not uniform and not universal, because there are Muslim communities where there is assimilation and happy cohabitation, right?
00:13:12.000And I've always felt that when you make the absolute focus migrants and Muslims, that you create and generate a hostility that's actually largely beneficial.
00:13:23.000And that's the a lot of the conversation I had with Tommy Robinson was about exactly that.
00:13:27.000You know, some people will say, well, yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to say if you want to come and live in a country, you should love that country and respect its rules.
00:13:38.000But I don't love and respect the rules of the United Kingdom either.
00:13:42.000I think the United Kingdom is an exploitative, corrupt place with corrupt media, corrupt government, corrupt institutions that's exploiting working people and has always done, and indeed there's always an exploitative relationship.
00:13:54.000That's what working class, even as a category means, whether they were a pr peasant class working in fields, an industrial class working in docks and manufacturing industry, they're there to be exploited.
00:14:04.000They'll allow 'em as much rights and privileges as they have to.
00:14:08.000But even the end of slavery in your country, it's only like we'll give you a little bit of freedom, but we're gonna require disposable people.
00:14:17.000And whether you and even if you just go to uh as I did the other day and it was absolutely delicious, a Chick-fil-A the other day, you know that the system has to accommodate a fast turnover of workers.
00:14:28.000So those workers can't make demands to be paid more money, and as soon as they can automate Chick-fil-A, they'll bloody well automate Chick-fil-A and everyone will be out.
00:14:36.000Um same at Walmart or any of them supermarkets, you know, in the UK or or the United States, they're moving towards increased automation with the ch checkouts or cashiers and the security.
00:14:48.000And when you told me the other day, Joe, that you can't go out of a supermarket now, you have to show you have to scan your receipt to get out of there.
00:14:54.000I'm like, no man, they can't have their cake and eat it.
00:14:57.000If they want to not have people working in there, they've got to tolerate a little bit of shoplifting.
00:15:01.000But like, you know, that's what it is, it's full aut automation.
00:15:04.000They want it so that you like I and I think it shows you what they think of people.
00:15:12.000And so I think the reason I like Tommy Robinson is because he g he's captured the spirit.
00:15:17.000He is the spirit, he is the spirit of it.
00:15:19.000In the same way you could say about Trump, that you know, you might not agree with everything Trump says, he's got the sort of spirit of something.
00:15:25.000And people I think are too closed minded about how to deal with that, about how to deal with it, and too dismissive, derisery, derogatory, and when really what it is is this is an opportunity to create change because if someone can galvanise and leave people, they're in the conversation.
00:15:42.000There's no point going, it shouldn't be you 'cause I think a lot of times when people on the left are criticizing Tommy Robinson, what they're saying is that should be me.
00:15:48.000That should be me that's in charge of that, because I've been the person that they're attacking.
00:15:52.000Why are people watching Russell Brown's podcast?
00:15:55.000He's in I don't like him, and then in the end you become too successful.
00:16:08.000Even if it's harmful, even if you know it a woman can be a man or whatever it is, it's whatever you want to do whenever you want to do, and that's what they're fighting for.
00:16:18.000I think his change is obviously he's gone against the uh the norms of society by saying we need to make change and we need to do something different.
00:16:29.000No, nor do I. And that's the same thing you're saying.
00:16:31.000I want to bring change, but you want the change to ultimately be beneficial for people.
00:16:37.000So I think some of the extreme Muslim side of things, or what Tommy would say, the extreme Islamic part is saying, why would you want to come here and bring that because we don't know if there's a positive side to it.
00:16:53.000I understand I I understand that aspect of it.
00:16:55.000But because I've like spent a lot of my time living, say, in London, and like I interviewed like one time, I can remember interviewing this guy, I can't remember the dude's name.
00:17:04.000It might have been called something like Mozambeg, I think, and he was banged up in Guantanamo Bay, and he was like, I think he was British and he was just on he was in doing business in Arabia and they nicked him and took him to Guantanamo Bay without trial and held him there, and like this guy was like, oh a minute, this is mad racism.
00:17:24.000Like you're just like a and I had him on there.
00:17:26.000Um he is a Muslim and he is like and and uh when I was talking to people like him and like other like um Muslims in the UK, I feel like the the vilification of Islam is just another tool in the toolbox of dividing people.
00:17:43.000And I do I think we have to be able to have a conversation where it's like, look, if you're living in England, you can't be disrespecting, let alone sexually molesting and abusing people, but what is the British people's position on it?
00:17:55.000And I like one of the things I was talking to Tommy about is what are you saying, the poor everyone, the poor all, like you know, and and I think a lot of the r the portrayal of Tommy Robinson is that is what he's saying.
00:18:05.000Now, Joe, you're in the UK at the moment.
00:18:08.000What do you feel like is happening when it comes to w uh the w working class sentimentality around migration and ha and what do you think about my points that it can be exploited like that?
00:18:19.000Yeah, so what what I think is going on there, it seems to me like the mass migration is it is causing a problem.
00:18:28.000UK's a small island, and with that, like it's causing unrest.
00:18:32.000Working class people don't feel like they're looked after it, they don't feel like they're valued here, especially under this government and the way things are going.
00:18:40.000But it seems to me that this government wants to cause the problem, and then ultimately they're gonna try and provide some sort of solution, which, as we all know, comes as more control through fear, usually, isn't it?
00:18:51.000Which is why I'm sceptical about going there on the 13th.
00:18:55.000There's gonna be I don't know what's gonna happen, I don't know how it's gonna play out.
00:18:59.000I think it's important to represent the working class people because I'm I am one, you know.
00:19:08.000Polarising views, people trashing, and then ultimately more control, digital IDs.
00:19:13.000I don't know what it is, I don't know what to provide, but they're gonna come with saying, couldn't they?
00:19:17.000Yeah, they've got an adept at creating crisis situations and using them crisis situations to legitimise further authority, and I reckon that's yeah, that is the master plan and the master game.
00:19:28.000Let's have a look at uh some of panadrama, uh Tommy Robinson's documentary as endorsed by the man himself in the interview that we had here uh last week.
00:19:36.000You should check that out online on Rumble.
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00:22:56.000That removes my ability to hire a team and work and bring you the other side of the story.
00:23:00.000My website was closed down, but I was completely unaware that Panorama, the world's leading investigative journalist documentary, were working on a programme about me with the working title, Tommy Takedown.
00:23:39.000And like he's a nightmare because genuine working class, like, and just a kind of uh uh i indominable spirit, like he's like most people like I think it's actually about most people that I disagree with on something like say Trump or whatever, like that guy's not obviously he's motivated by money in terms of his corporate and commercial endeavours, but is someone's putting himself in a lot of aggravation or Bobby Kennedy, like he don't need this stuff.
00:24:07.000He's putting himself in a position where like he's just going through nightmares, he's gonna get attacked, and he's clearly motivated by something.
00:24:15.000So Tommy Robinson, what is motivating this guy?
00:24:18.000Like it's not like he's got something in him that's very authentic.
00:24:22.000Well, if you just tell story how all this money and everything just gets cut off, it wouldn't make me want to go, you know, more on the offensive, but he seems to be so courageous to keep putting yourself out there.
00:24:34.000I mean, and you know that like the fact that they could just say we're cutting you off like a YouTube.
00:24:40.000We're not gonna give you that money anymore.
00:24:44.000But I think a guy like this is the reason why he's drawing a crowd is because you relate to that sort of courage that it takes to put yourself out there, no matter what the cost is to you.
00:24:56.000Whenever someone's a threat, they have to legitimise taking them down.
00:25:13.000And ultimately, like they don't care about migrants or Muslims, the people that are like opposed to Tommy Robinson in media and in government institutions.
00:25:23.000They're not sort of sat up at night sort of thinking, what can we do?
00:25:25.000But in general, we've started to recognise that they're part of a kind of network, whether formal or informal, of interests that benefit from being able to exert control and direct profit and control information, whether that's like official media sites, New York Times, Guardian, CNN, BBC, all those kind of media networks that have lost their control with the advent of the internet.
00:25:49.000Like, of course, online technology can be used for surveillance for further propaganda, but I feel like it evolved in unpredictable ways, and it generated a whole bunch of independent journalists and uh pundits and commentators, and we're living through the phase of where the old institutions of power work out how to shut that down.
00:26:10.000Now, Tommy Robinson sort of spans and precedes that in so much as his activism was at first old school, like marches and flyers and leaflets and you know stuff that was affiliated with football.
00:26:23.000And even if, as I've said at the beginning of this, I uh have queries and questions and concerns about the uh focus on Islam and Muslims and the potential that that has to create further division without solutions, and that it doesn't locate the problem primarily within the establishment and the institutions of power where the power is actually held.
00:26:45.000Um what I do believe in is his authenticity and his personal integrity, and like my kind of he did say in the interview, are you like a utopian, but like the thing that I the thing that is um if maybe hopefully is a better word than utopian because it's A sort of a hideous word really, but my prayer is that that you could get to the point where members of the Muslim community in the UK and Tommy Robinson's constituency could go, right?
00:27:12.000Well, what are we talking about here then?
00:27:15.000What's surely there's no one saying rape gangs are a good thing.
00:27:19.000Surely no one's saying having loads of male fighting age migrants come over here, where are the women and where are the children and the British taxpayer when Britain is unstable and in economic decline and ravaged by COVID, that resources, people are seeing resources going to migration and illegal migration.
00:27:50.000You can't continually say you should want it, it's beneficial for us, it don't bother us.
00:27:54.000And as people like Paul Joseph Watson say, another sort of right-wing pundit would point out, the areas that are most impacted by migration are not where middle class professional people working in media live.
00:28:08.000They like that place in Eppin is not where there are not many people that work at the Guardian or the BBC live in there or even from there.
00:28:16.000They live in other areas, and like so there's a sort of a degree of hypocrisy there that's being exposed.
00:28:21.000In fact, hypocrisy is in a sense, I suppose the hallmark of the left and where like the virtue signalling moniker has emerged from the belief that you're saying all this because you don't have to pay the price.
00:28:32.000You don't have to pay the price for these opinions.
00:28:35.000That they're not costing you anything.
00:28:37.000It's not costing you anything to believe that.
00:28:40.000They were about to discredit me to the nation, to you, the public.
00:28:45.000And I will prove that that documentary is not impartial, that it's scripted, that they invent things, that they lie, that they clip, that they edit.
00:28:56.000What you will witness in this documentary will prove to you this isn't about Tommy Robinson.
00:29:02.000This is about all the people that have been lied to.
00:29:05.000All the people who have been mislabelled.
00:29:07.000Despite all their efforts to silence me, it became very apparent that something far more sinister was going on.
00:29:15.000We're gonna have to take a short break before a message from our partners.
00:29:18.000It'll be very brief and we'll be back with our content.
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00:30:16.000With the collusion between the establishment, panorama, and a far-left extremist organisation called Hope Not Hate.
00:30:25.000You're gonna hear about the tactics they use to get the narrative they want.
00:30:35.000In this documentary, you're gonna hear a lot about hope not hate.
00:30:38.000It's important you understand who they are.
00:30:40.000Home Hate is a so-called anti-fascist organization who formed in 2004.
00:30:45.000They formed from a group and a magazine called Searchlight.
00:30:49.000Nick Lowells, who now leads Hope Not Hate, was a lead member of Searchlight.
00:30:54.000In 1984, Searchlight worked alongside Panorama to fraudulently edit footage, which they were prosecuted or taken to court and sued for.
00:31:02.000They paid a million pound damages to conservative MPs who they wrongfully edited footage to link them with far-right extremist groups.
00:31:10.000Hope not hate brand themselves as an anti-fascist organisation.
00:31:15.000In reality, they label slander and attack anyone who speaks out against open borders or against Islam.
00:31:21.000The worrying thing is they have a lot of influence.
00:31:24.000For example, all media outlets across the UK, across the world, take what they say is credible and they work Hand in hand with them.
00:31:31.000From CNM, The Guardian, Hufferton Post, The Independent, Sky News, News Night, Panorama, The Metro, The Sunday Times, they even advise the UN.
00:31:41.000If you're watching us on YouTube, we have to leave you there, possibly because you can't show Tommy Robinson on YouTube.
00:34:25.000We're comparing that we're like it's called Joe's Eye View, where we compare it to the BBC reporting to what Joe himself actually saw that we can rely on and trust to see if there is a future for various communities of working people across the UK to come together against the rise of tyrannical fascism in the form of bureaucracy.
00:34:48.000Remember, as I've always said on here, it's more like Kafka, where like uh the invisible bureaucracies assert power.
00:34:53.000It's a bit like Orwell, it's so terrifying, a boot stamping on the face of humanity.
00:35:02.000He said a bit like Audus Huxley, where they get you all slobby and all slouchy and lacking sort of potency, the sort of what some would call the kind of feminization of the culture.
00:35:13.000Not that women don't have an almighty power.
00:35:17.000I see there's a black woman, uh March, here she is.
00:35:20.000Asian speakers, there was nothing far right against it.
00:35:24.000It was a liberal demonstration demanding free speech.
00:35:27.000So what happens is when someone gets censored on on Twitter for some kind of uh for hate speech or for ex uh incitement to violence or engaging in some kind of terrorist communication, they get their account taken down, they tend to come back, and that actually leads to a sort of uh an increased level of uh of sense of participation and integration into these networks.
00:35:48.000So I do a lot of work looking into right wing extremism in the United Kingdom and the United States.
00:35:55.000And one of the things that we've seen there is actually an entire mobilization of right-wing extremist Activity around the concept of the freedom of speech being taken away from people.
00:36:04.000So just a few weeks ago in London there was a march attended by a few thousand people that was called Day for Freedom, and that was entirely sort of centred around this issue of uh of free speech and the sense that the for in the kind of parlance of the extreme right, the liberal establishment was trying to silence uh uh extreme right or uh sorry, uh legitimate conservative voices.
00:36:28.000Just last year, Hope Not Hate were identified in the Swedish military report on left-wing extremist violence.
00:36:34.000It has been proven that hope not hate exaggerated hate crime figures by 3,000%.
00:36:40.000Nothing they said after that point should ever have been taken as credible, let alone taken by journalists without checking anything and spread around the world to demonise and slander people and organizations.
00:36:52.000They play a key role in pressurizing social media giants, whether it be with petitions or requests from MPs that they're working alongside with to say who's promoting hate.
00:37:03.000Not who's promoting hate that would breach laws in this country, but who needs silencing with their opinion.
00:37:09.000They're now teaching your children in schools about fascism.
00:37:13.000If we take a quote from their original spin doctor, Dan Hodges.
00:37:17.000From his quote, you'll understand the tactics they use in this documentary.
00:37:20.000It was a no-holds barred bare-knuckle PR.
00:37:23.000We used every dirty, underhand, low-down, unscrupulous trick in the book.
00:37:29.000These are quotes from their spin doctor.
00:37:31.000Joe Moorho, who is a lead researcher for Hope Not Hate.
00:37:35.000He brags about days out with their BBC political reporters.
00:37:38.000Their relationship works hand in hand with the corrupt mainstream media.
00:37:43.000They do the reports, the media then use their ammunition and their labelling to attack people and organizations, to demonise them and slander them.
00:37:51.000In 2015, Joe Milhau used the hashtag Antifa on several occasions.
00:37:56.000The reason why this is so relevant is when you understand who Antifa are.
00:38:01.000Antifa are an organization that leading members of the American government have called to be prescribed as a terrorist organization.
00:38:07.000They bala clava up, they mask up and they violently attack people who they're told to attack, and organizations which are highlighted to them by groups and organizations like Hope Not Hate.
00:38:18.000They find out who you are, they contact your work, anyone who steps above the parapet.
00:38:23.000Hope not hate's goal is to silence them and stop them.
00:38:42.000But wait till you hear what Hope Not Hate done to him.
00:38:45.000This time last year, like I said, I was working full-time, happy, and because of some things I was doing outside of work, where I was sort of expressing my political opinions and so on, uh, I ended up drawing their fire.
00:38:55.000Uh and they wrote uh a report and called it in to the employer, so it was a kind of deliberate attempt to.
00:39:02.000It wasn't just to dox me, because I was I hadn't hidden my name, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.
00:39:27.000Didn't you say when you say you got involved, you was giving your political opinions with regards to uh obviously the controversial stuff, so immigration, uh Islam, these kind of issues, but not not in an extreme way, nothing you wouldn't happily say to anyone.
00:39:40.000Just so we can get clear, we're not talking about committing a crime, we're just talking about speaking openly about immigration and Islam.
00:39:46.000Yeah, and no one had a problem with it.
00:39:48.000That's the whole point that kind of strikes me about.
00:39:50.000So it's not like anyone made a complaint, no one you nothing's happened, so what did Hope Not Hate do?
00:39:56.000So Hope Not Hate, one of the I can't remember which, but a team of their researchers wrote a small report.
00:40:00.000They were calling up multiple officers uh at the bank, uh, and they're also focusing, because obviously we have a very big presence in the Middle East.
00:40:07.000So they were focusing on officers there to call them and just basically say, you've got this guy working for you, he's an Islamophobia, he's a racist, blah blah blah.
00:40:53.000Yeah, I was suspended, and then once the coverage happened, they obviously, whilst previously, like internally the bank, I think it kind of thought, well, maybe this is just an attack piece.
00:41:03.000Once there was coverage, obviously, it's their reputation on the line.
00:41:06.000So then pretty much immediately I was fired.
00:41:45.000It's it what like in a way, um is it you know I read a lot of still left-wing type stuff from intellectuals, people that are into psychedelics, like very virulently anti-Trump, uh like very sort of pro-Palestine.
00:42:02.000I read a lot of that kind of stuff still because you know, mostly because it's not that long ago that that was generally the kind of cultural class that I belong to, and also because I like feel like there's interesting uh uh ideas still.
00:42:18.000And uh I wonder what they would fit because the problem is is that most of the people that will watch this will be people that are in general sympathetic towards it, and I because I feel like uh how could you not with Tommy Robinson be kind of encouraged that someone that's so plainly and typically working class is like so hardworking and intrepid and like right so okay, she had a good joy like you know, it's just like doing his best and cracking on like why were you working?
00:42:47.000Because I I actually think that's that's what it is.
00:42:49.000You know, the f that moment, that pivotal moment, when Hillary Clinton said basket of deplorables, it revealed something.
00:42:56.000And it w because English culture is so class-oriented anyway, we're much more inured to the idea that they're working class British people hate themselves anyway.
00:43:06.000So when they're sort of spoken of hatefully, they kind of accept it.
00:43:11.000The pride is a kind of rumbunctious pride.
00:43:14.000But you know, like there isn't a sort of a sense of celebration around working class culture.
00:43:18.000What I think has happened in the like last 10, 20 years is the bit like since probably Clinton and Blair, maybe, I don't know, I'm not expert in these things, is the sort of the normalization of the vilification of ordinary working people, so it becomes okay to not address the fact that the industries they used to work in are all either be outsourced or closed down,
00:43:39.000the the concerns that come from families that like just a generation or so ago laid down their lives in wars for their countries and now being told your country is not a real thing anyway, more in the UK and the US, because America is uh gone in a different direction because of American populism and the rise of Trump.
00:43:57.000And like there's no sort of sympathy or interest.
00:43:59.000So I just wonder what the kind of the kind of the guardian writers and various media rule institutions and organizations that hate Tommy Robinson that also I know hate me and hate this community in general.
00:44:11.000I just wonder how they can't be kind of open enough to see that this is fascinating, even if you don't like me, agree with him on everything.
00:44:21.000Because I'd my point would be I'd want to be able to sit with a British Muslim or a Muslim from anywhere and then be and not feel embarrassed.
00:44:28.000The same way as when we're talking about Israel, I don't want people that I know that are Jews to say, right, I didn't like the way you covered that or the way you spoke about that issue.
00:44:37.000You know, like you've got uh it's integrity, isn't it?
00:44:40.000Yeah, and I think from an American perspective, watching it from the outside, we like to see all of all of it, all of the classes in the UK, in the sense of we don't just go the royal family, that's gotta be that's what the UK looks like.
00:44:55.000So we also like the gangsters of the UK.
00:44:58.000We also just like I like even what Dave was saying, listening to Tommy talk is fascinating.
00:45:05.000Like just for us from an outside perspective.
00:45:07.000So it's interesting that the powers or the you know, the writers or the the liberal left side would try to silence a whole segment of the country that's very intriguing to the rest of the world.
00:45:19.000Yeah, and like you can only silence that portion of society if you vilify them in the same way as you would with an individual, like Elon Musk said, um, exciting that's one of Stalin's advisers, show me the man and I'll show you the crime.
00:45:35.000Of course, if someone is a racist or a rapist or whatever accusation they're able to find, then you can legitimately shut them down.
00:45:41.000But the problem is that this the centralised authority has now required that entire classes of people are shut down, not just individuals.
00:45:50.000You can't listen to like and and they for a while they were not adept at playing the game and they would let it slip.
00:45:55.000They'd say stuff like white van man, that's the equivalent of like a redneck trucker, or they'd say things about houses with flags outside, and like like you know, like they mean St. George's flags, and now what's happened is because of the ability to communicate, and because of leadership emerging from genuine working class activists like Tommy Robinson,
00:46:13.000it's that that's being reclaimed, and like there's these protests, these flag protests across the UK, and because now there is no mandate, there is no like the Labour Party doesn't now represent a load of working class people through the trade union movement because they've abandoned them and all those jobs are gone and all those movements are gone.
00:46:32.000So there's not like loads of working people going, Oh, yeah, hang about like you know, these were these Muslims and that they've then annihilated those constituencies through their own corruption.
00:46:58.000It's just working class people who've had enough.
00:47:00.000They don't like they're not being looked after in their local areas, and by speaking out about it, they're they're using like these extreme left wings to attack them, saying you can't say that hate speech and all this lot, and it's like, well, I I agree with them.
00:47:14.000Do what you want, act what you want if you're boy, girl or non-body, whatever they want to call themselves and all that stuff, right?
00:47:21.000But you've got people open to criticize and say what they want, innit?
00:47:33.000That's exactly right that they sort of have been kind of exposed as corrupt.
00:47:37.000You know, like what I'm aware of is like m like the privilege that I've had is because I've lived in a variety of communities, like, for example, just where I grew up, normal Grey's Essex, and then because of the acting, going to stage schools and drama schools, and like and then because of some thank you, Lord, success in those areas, occupying different co and then because I'm a fanlandrian little womanizer, having girlfriends from all over the world and different places, living in different worlds.
00:48:05.000I've got to see things like a tourist, like a tourist that's been in different worlds.
00:48:09.000And one of the first moments is like, see, there where he was talking about Antifa and that.
00:48:13.000When I, as I told him in the conversation, when I first went to protest, they that's the side I was on.
00:48:17.000Like the Liverpool dockers, that's obviously the trade unions around like when Liverpool dockers, they all got sacked, all the people that worked in the docks because they didn't need dockers no more, and they'd have found some bloody reason to justify it or whatever.
00:48:27.000And I remember being at those protests, and I was excited because of the chaos, like there's all police horses galloping around, people ripping up paving slabs, like parts of the cyborg.
00:48:40.000And then I started so I went to more of them and I started to learn about the ideas, and then I met more people that knew more, like my friend John Rogers, who taught me about sort of socialism and communism and the struggle of working people.
00:48:52.000Then my mate Martino Sclavi, god rest his soul, who like Italian fella taught me all about sort of socialism out of that country.
00:48:58.000So I started getting the education, but the thing that engaged me really is the feeling and the spirit, and by then I was already a drug addict and I took a bunch of acid and all that kind of stuff, and I was aware of like, yeah, we are being suppressed, you know, like and like so like but one thing I noticed, and like these things, you know how there's little things you log, they're almost like a penny you've picked up and sort of not known quite what it's gonna mean.
00:49:20.000When I was first at those protests, protests, the police officers I noticed had accents more similar to mine than the other Protesters.
00:49:32.000I'm not saying those Liverpool dockers weren't legit, of course they were.
00:49:35.000But there was the equivalent of Antifa.
00:49:37.000They were groups like Reclaim the Streets.
00:49:39.000Socialist movements that probably people have university.
00:49:42.000No problem if you've been to university, that's good.
00:49:44.000This ultimately has to be a movement that's transcendent of class.
00:49:46.000But I remember just noticing them police officers are all from like Romford, Basilden, Maidstone, mate, like they're from places where I'm from, suburban London.
00:49:55.000And they're like, right, back off place, would you stand back?
00:49:59.000Like, no, they're the same class and group.
00:50:01.000And then now you lot are all like in America, it's different, Joe.
00:50:04.000They're their political and social and cultural dynamics are different.
00:50:08.000But what happened is is that the vilification of ordinary Americans took place in the same sort of way as British people have known for a long time through the basket of deplorables things.
00:50:20.000And then since I've got here, what I realise is the kind of people that they're targeting are capable people, men that are like able to hunt and fish and survive and fight, or like those kind of people, they're like they've made out that they're scum.
00:50:33.000So it's like, yeah, that like so those people that you should be looking to for protection and to organise are looked at as hateful.
00:50:42.000Then other little worlds I've lived in, you know, been around in Hollywood and around the British aristocracy and stuff like that.
00:50:47.000And so I've like been like a little tourist or Zelig is the film reference, or maybe Forrest Gump, I suppose, where I've like lived in all these different worlds and gone, oh I see, and now I'm just like starting to put it all together, and now the culture's moving so quickly that I think that the requirement is for people to recognise that whether you're a person whose interests are ensuring, like you just talked about, Joe, people with different sexual orientation have their rights respected.
00:51:12.000You know that if Jesus returned, he wouldn't be like, You fucking trans people, come fuck you know, it'd be like, hey, listen, you know, you'd be loving, he'd be loving to all, but the truth would be there, the truth would be there.
00:51:23.000And what we're living in is this sort of state of bewilderment and denial of truth, and in the chaos of the denial of truth, crisis after successive crisis legitimizes the enhancement of authority and control, and it never goes back fully.
00:51:38.000I think it was you that said that, Joe.
00:51:39.000Like, you know, after 9-11, the Patriot Act, they rescind it a bit, but not entirely after COVID, all these measures.
00:51:46.000They rescinded it a bit, but not entirely, and slowly they're legitimizing more authority.
00:51:52.000And this is where it all starts to in my mind at least, tie together, like a politician, a politician like Secretary Kennedy, sta like very ultra focused on big pharma, big food, health, you know, like you know, someone like him, he's a more he's more of a threat than Trump, if you ask me,
00:52:07.000because he's out of the aristocracy, the American aristocracy at least, of the Kennedy family, and he's sort of got a constituency that includes like hippies and yogis and lefties and like people, you know, and like he's willing to sort of confront authority.
00:52:22.000So I'm the reason I mention it is these categories are no longer as relevant as they once were, and what we have to find is alliances between people that are like ardent fans of Tommy Robinson, and then people that are like, listen, this is the Muslim populations of Bradford and Birmingham and Luton and everywhere.
00:52:39.000We're here now, so what are you saying?
00:52:40.000We've got that, you know, what's what you're not kicking everyone out.
00:52:47.000Yeah, I think we've all agreed and we we should get to a point where like credibility's gone for all these mainstream media, anybody that's saying I'm the expert on it and you can trust me, credibility's gone.
00:53:16.000Joe is at this rally that's supposed to be disruptive, and Joe is showing me it looks peaceful, or I know Russell, I know him.
00:53:27.000So yeah, you're you got millions of people and you're talking to a bunch of people, but it's gotta get back to the connection of I know Dave.
00:53:46.000I know, and when I saw his face, now like that was very funny because when um Larry uh David did that piece about Bill Maher meeting Trump and he did that very funny my dinner with Adolf Hitler.
00:53:59.000I really really thought that's brilliant.
00:54:01.000Slarry David's a comedy genius, so he was able to create it.
00:54:05.000And what he was saying is that Bill Maher had humanised Trump by sort of commenting on Trump's conviviality and social ease and charm and the fact that he listened and enjoyed jokes, and that Bill Maher had been a bit bowled over by Trump, it seemed.
00:54:19.000And Larry David, I suppose, was making the point that if you met it's very funny, it's worth it.
00:54:24.000Like at the end of it, he's sort of going, Hitler was asking me about like my ex-girlfriend and saying, no, you can't don't ring her anymore because otherwise you're still in the relationship.
00:54:34.000Like Hitler would be sort of alright if you were chatting to him on a one-on-one thing.
00:54:40.000But um, so it's uh like I mentioned that only to sort of offer some sort of counter to your point, because when I sort of saw Tommy Robinson, like, you know, all of us, like there's aspects of me.
00:54:50.000When I'm shouting at my kids, I don't feel I would don't think you would like me very much.
00:54:54.000My closest friends, I feel embarrassed about how I've like, you know, when Peggy drives me mad, and I'm like, Perry, shut up!
00:55:00.000You know, like I don't want everyone in the world to but that's part of who I am.
00:55:04.000I'm flawed, I get impatient, I make mistakes, and I'm sure that Tommy Robinson or anybody, they're the same.
00:55:09.000But what I felt when we saw him is like, I know this bloke.
00:56:19.000Because you know, with Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, there's a lot of like you know, gossip really, which you know is in itself a sin, and rumours, but that appears to be a broader phenomenon.
00:56:30.000I was initially thinking of when you were saying about like the fallibility, Jake is what allows you to trust someone, is like you're like, oh, I've seen this is a broken person who's not pretending to not be broken.
00:56:42.000I remember uh like someone talked about it on that it was Tucker Carlson did an interview with Lee Strobel, is it is he saying Stro Bell, and on that they goes, um he goes, he said, like even a show like Friends, which is a sort of sanitary and innocuous show, actually was promoting a promiscuous lifestyle, actually, like you know, every week they're having it off with a different woman or a different bloke or whatever, and it's normalizing that.
00:57:06.000And I like watch stuff with my girls all the time that's like you know, just good British and American, actually, usually entertainment like modern family or whatever, and I am sort of aware of like, oh, they're really normalizing a lot of stuff that I'm not sure I want culturally normalised.
00:57:22.000But the thing is, I feel is that the culture operates on two levels, like those people that work on Friends, they're all sort of invested in a system that means they can't ever be themselves.
00:57:32.000It was like some time ago, actually, at the beginning of me too and everything, one of my mates who's really famous in the UK said it's just accepted now that there's this uh there's this communicative level of who you actually are, and then the part that you present to the public, and all of us have a degree of you know, levels of authenticity, even Christ has the 12 and then the three, right?
00:57:55.000And like, and but if you actually uh have had to submerge your true nature to the point where you don't even know it anymore, and that's what what I think our black male culture is built upon, like in the same way that there's the Diddy parties or the Epstein Island,
00:58:11.000I think all of us are a bit ashamed if we've looked at porn or if we've had sex with a prostitute, or if we've looked acted in ways sexually that are outside of the covenant, which is that that sex is supposed to be an expression of love.
00:58:25.000Sex is supposed to be an expression of love.
00:58:28.000If you're trying to extract the Sex without the love, that's a sin, and you will feel ashamed.
00:58:34.000Eventually, you'll pay a price for that.
00:58:36.000You'll pay a price one way or another.
00:58:38.000And this whole just populations of people that are living like that and a culture that's normalizing it.
00:59:10.000I'm a shapeshifter, I'm a Mercurial individual.
00:59:13.000You know, like, yeah, I guess like we, you know, we went to a lot of places there, but what I suppose I was saying is is that the way that the culture messages us, it creates a kind of disorientation in the broadest possible way.
00:59:25.000And what is this time of independent media defined by authenticity?
00:59:29.000Anyone that you look at that's succeeding, like, you know, look at some of these people, Charlie Kirk.
00:59:35.000Like that guy is so different from me in a million ways.
00:59:39.000But I can tell that Charlie Kirk means what he's saying.