Stay Free - Russel Brand - June 19, 2023


Michael Shellenberger (Censorship & Surveillance)


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

189.29411

Word Count

8,045

Sentence Count

462

Misogynist Sentences

5

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary

MSNBC refuses to broadcast Trump's post-arraraignment speech because it would be "irresponsible" to do so, according to Rachel Maddow. What does that mean? And why is it so important that we don't see Trump's remarks after his arraignment on federal felony charges? Russell and Gareth take a look at what could be the real reason why this is happening, and what it could mean for the future of our understanding of the truth about the Trump administration and how it relates to the Iran situation. Stay tuned for Russell's full interview with Michael Schellenberger, host of Conspiracy Theories, on this week's episode of Awakenings Wonders. Stay free, you're not going to want to miss it! You can get the whole show on Rumble, wherever you get your shows, by joining the RUMBLE FB group. And if you're watching this on Rumble right now, press the red button and join us on Locals. You'll get access to the entire show, and a chance to see all of it, on all of the social medias, if you search for "RUMBLE" and "Awakening Wonders." Subscribe to "Rumble" on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe, Like, and Share! Subscribe, and tell a Friend about what you're listening to "Awakening Wonders" on your favorite streaming platform. Subscribe and Share the show wherever you re listening to your favorite podcast. If you like it, please tell a friend about it and share it on your social media platforms so it can spread the word around the wide world. and spread it everywhere you can spread it far and wide. . Thank you for listening to everyone else! - Russell Brand and Good Morning America - Thank you, Russell Brand, - Love, Kristy, Gave Me a Big Thank You, Big Bear, Cheers, Gotta Have It Out There - - P.S. - Krispy Ketchup, Sarah, Megan, P. & Cheers - Emily, Gorms, Gage, Megan Kuchta, Brad Pitt, Jake, Natalie Barbu, and Sarah, Sarah, Caitie, Rachel, Natalie, and Rachel, - Evan, Rachel, and Ben, Jake, and Jacklyn, Michael, and Glynis, etc., etc., - Rachel, etc.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey!
00:00:01.000 Thanks for joining us, you Awakening Wonders.
00:00:03.000 This is Stay Free with Russell Brand.
00:00:05.000 Wherever you're watching this, you can only get the whole show on Rumble, and you are going to want to see all of it.
00:00:10.000 Why?
00:00:10.000 Because Michael Schellenberger will be joining us here in this room with a surprising array of information on censorship, surveillance, UFOs, and in particular, we're going to be talking about the Trump arraignment.
00:00:24.000 One of the things that is not being discussed enough is what's in those boxes.
00:00:29.000 Let me know in the chat if you've considered the significance of what the boxes themselves contain.
00:00:34.000 Some people believe that what is in there reveals that the US had plans for a war with Iran.
00:00:42.000 Allegedly!
00:00:43.000 And part of what's happening now is an attempt to distract us from that significant fact.
00:00:47.000 We'll also be talking to you on the other side, on what some people would call the dark side, but others would see as a portal for great and limitless light on Rumble about how the lockdown and other regulatory measures affected the victims of heart attacks.
00:01:01.000 Obviously, we can't talk about that on YouTube, but I think a lot of the questions that we're going to ask Michael Schellenberger would simply be subject to censorship, which is ironic because he spends so much of his time exposing censorship and the censorship industrial complex.
00:01:11.000 In fact, he's in the country to participate in a talk that I am, what am I doing?
00:01:16.000 Emceeing, I'm curating.
00:01:17.000 Yeah, emceeing sounds pretty cool.
00:01:19.000 I'll be emceeing that chat.
00:01:21.000 Yeah.
00:01:22.000 Gareth, you're my on-screen assistant.
00:01:24.000 There I'll be on stage.
00:01:25.000 I wonder if you'll be attending the event at all?
00:01:27.000 Will I be assisting you in some way still?
00:01:29.000 I'd like you to in some way.
00:01:31.000 And this first story that we're covering is fantastic because it's a media story.
00:01:35.000 The MSNBC are refusing to cover Trump's post-arraignment speech because MSNBC says Rachel Maddowell, who you know I have no axe to grind with.
00:01:46.000 I think Rachel Maddowell seemed like a really nice person.
00:01:49.000 Let me know in the chat if you agree.
00:01:51.000 I feel like, um, that Rachel Maddow says it would be irresponsible of her to broadcast Trump's post-arraignment chat because he will say things that are disinformation, malinformation, and yet we know that MSNBC have broadcast so many examples of misinformation in the past.
00:02:07.000 Let me know in the comments in the chat what examples you come up with.
00:02:10.000 A few clues.
00:02:11.000 Russia going, that's That's one.
00:02:12.000 The medication.
00:02:13.000 But you tell us your own.
00:02:14.000 Tell us your own right now.
00:02:15.000 And if you're watching this on Rumble right now, press the red button and join us on Locals.
00:02:19.000 That's a vast and thriving community.
00:02:22.000 The things they talk about in there.
00:02:23.000 It bends your bones though, Nick Gale.
00:02:25.000 It certainly does.
00:02:26.000 But at least it's not misinformation.
00:02:28.000 Look at Rachel Maddow on MSNBC saying that they have to censor Trump for... I don't actually know why because there used to be a time when we were considered capable to discern for ourselves the nature of truth and fiction.
00:02:41.000 Let's have a look.
00:02:42.000 Now tonight, after his arraignment on federal felony charges, he's speaking again, this time to an audience of his supporters that's gathered for a campaign fundraiser tonight at his golf club and summer home in New Jersey.
00:02:55.000 We knew heading into this that he was planning to make these remarks.
00:02:58.000 We are prepared for his pre-fundraiser remarks tonight to again be essentially a Trump campaign speech.
00:03:05.000 Because of that, we do not intend to carry these remarks live.
00:03:08.000 What I think is interesting is it's now become overt.
00:03:11.000 The process of censorship has become explicit and is being legitimized as it happens.
00:03:16.000 We cannot show you Trump because he's going to be campaigning.
00:03:19.000 But America is supposed to be a free country.
00:03:22.000 We're supposed to be able to ascertain for ourselves whether or not we want to take Donald Trump seriously,
00:03:27.000 to dismiss him, to arraign him, to lock him up.
00:03:31.000 But of course, the great hypocrisy at the heart of this is we know that MSNBC has previously published
00:03:36.000 untrue information.
00:03:38.000 And remember, and let me know in the chat if you agree with this,
00:03:40.000 part of what we feel is significant is that we're not talking about the contents of the boxes.
00:03:46.000 Did Trump have vital information that proves that the US have been planning a war with Iran.
00:03:54.000 Let me know in the chat what you think about that.
00:03:55.000 Let's have a look at the rest of this from Rachel Maddow before demonstrating other clear examples of MSNBC broadcasting untrue information which shows, look, If they won't broadcast some information because it's untrue, that's the reason they're giving it, and yet they broadcast other information that we know to be untrue, that shows you there's an agenda.
00:04:15.000 I guess our key point is, what is the agenda that MSNBC are carrying?
00:04:18.000 Let's look.
00:04:20.000 As we have said before in these circumstances, There is a cost to us as a news organization to knowingly broadcast untrue things.
00:04:29.000 We are here to bring you the news.
00:04:30.000 It hurts our ability to do that.
00:04:33.000 I can't take anymore of that.
00:04:34.000 Let's have a look at Rachel Maddow on COVID-19 vaccines.
00:04:36.000 If you're watching this on YouTube, obviously I'm not saying whether this is true or not.
00:04:42.000 You can decide for yourself using the WHO's guidelines, which they still use on YouTube.
00:04:46.000 Have a look.
00:04:47.000 Join us on Rumble if you want to see a more exclusive, insightful take on this.
00:04:50.000 We'll be talking to Michael Schellenberger about this in a minute.
00:04:53.000 Let's have a look.
00:04:54.000 Instead of the virus being able to hop from person to person to person, potentially mutating and becoming more virulent and drug-resistant along the way, now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person.
00:05:10.000 A vaccinated person gets exposed to the virus.
00:05:14.000 The virus does not infect them.
00:05:16.000 The virus cannot then use that person to go anywhere else.
00:05:20.000 As of today, that information is still on YouTube.
00:05:23.000 As of today, MSNBC have not retracted that information.
00:05:27.000 Now, if that were one isolated example, you could say that we're cherry picking, and indeed, to a point, we are narrativizing.
00:05:34.000 But let's move now to the subject of war.
00:05:36.000 Many people say that the Democratic Party have become the de facto party of war.
00:05:39.000 That's why Tulsi Gabbard, who's coming on the show soon, says she left the Democrat Party.
00:05:43.000 Now, another thing we've done content on before is MSNBC's framing of military industrial complex employees as experts without declaring their ties and relationships with organisations like Raytheon and Lockheed Martin who obviously benefit from ongoing war.
00:06:00.000 Many of the retired military leaders employed by MSNBC are paid contributors and have secondary affiliations that are rarely, if ever, mentioned Leaving viewers in the dark about whose interests they're promoting, none of the leading networks, including obviously MSNBC, makes a regular practice of announcing its military analysts' financial ties to the Pentagon, connections that could colour their on-air comments.
00:06:19.000 As documented in a Pulitzer Prize-winning series by The Times in 2008, the Pentagon orchestrated the commentary of 75 former officers who served as radio and TV analysts.
00:06:29.000 Stay free with Russell Brand!
00:06:30.000 and then the most I know what you lot are typing in the comments now and if you're not joining us on locals yet
00:06:34.000 press that red button and join us there now Russiagate that's what you're gonna be talking about you're
00:06:38.000 gonna be talking about the way the MSNBC and the mainstream media at large covered the allegations that Trump was a
00:06:45.000 Russian asset which we now know was completely untrue and understood to be true by the deep state and the government
00:06:50.000 themselves from very early on in the process Stay free with Russell Brand
00:06:55.000 See it first on Rumble Be calm, be still
00:06:58.000 Surely the reason you've become so priapic, so prehensile, so mobile, oh microphone of mine, is because you have understood that in the studio with me right now, oh yeah, Michael Schellenberger is present.
00:07:11.000 Is he the Bob Woodward of his time?
00:07:15.000 Is he a dazzling devil with a washboard belly?
00:07:18.000 Are you happy to be here in the UK, Michael?
00:07:20.000 Thanks for joining us.
00:07:21.000 So happy.
00:07:21.000 Thanks for having me.
00:07:22.000 How was customs?
00:07:23.000 Did they give you any trouble?
00:07:24.000 Sailed through.
00:07:25.000 Just totally fine.
00:07:26.000 It was fine.
00:07:27.000 The machines didn't work, but I went through with the people.
00:07:29.000 Did you have to do that bit where you put your hands like that?
00:07:31.000 Nothing.
00:07:32.000 Nope.
00:07:32.000 It was very easy.
00:07:33.000 Did they say, no, come this way, sir?
00:07:35.000 Yeah.
00:07:35.000 None of this?
00:07:37.000 The biometric devices failed on me, so I had to get through the people, but it worked great.
00:07:40.000 Michael, before we get into our interview, tell us why you are here at the moment in London.
00:07:47.000 I'm here to launch the campaign against the censorship industrial complex with you and Matt Taibbi this Thursday 7pm Central Hall Westminster.
00:07:56.000 How are we going to create a campaign and a movement around such a complex system that has the obvious advantage as conveyed in its name of being able to shut down opposition?
00:08:09.000 Firstly, how?
00:08:10.000 And secondly, why is it... See, I'm a proper journalist now.
00:08:14.000 Why is it so important that we do that?
00:08:18.000 The most important thing is just to expose it.
00:08:20.000 Just drag it into the light.
00:08:21.000 That's what we did in Congress.
00:08:22.000 That's what you've been doing.
00:08:24.000 And then I think the other part of it is just to make fun of it.
00:08:26.000 It's just absurd that here we are, 250 years after the Constitution of the United States puts as our First Amendment free speech, that we're having to defend free speech and make the case for free speech in our societies.
00:08:38.000 And then we need a global movement.
00:08:39.000 That's the third part.
00:08:40.000 It's not just in the United States, it's in Britain, the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Ireland, are all places where we see an attack on free speech.
00:08:49.000 We have to stand together.
00:08:50.000 There's a global war on free speech, we need a global resistance movement.
00:08:53.000 And it's not just a rhetorical attack on free speech, is it Michael?
00:08:55.000 It's a legal and regulatory attack on free speech.
00:08:59.000 First, ideologically, free speech is being conflated with a whole host of nefarious ideas.
00:09:05.000 Such as racism and the subcategory, I suppose, of antisemitism and hatred.
00:09:11.000 But I've noticed lately a tendency, when there is an appetite within the establishment to control or shut something down, that the first thing they do is conflate it with something that is demonstrably evil.
00:09:24.000 Is that why it's important to have free speech as a principle that is somehow unencroachable?
00:09:29.000 That's right.
00:09:30.000 I mean, we saw, I mean, for years, right, we had cancel culture.
00:09:32.000 So we had a culture that said people should self-censor.
00:09:35.000 We see people trying to get cancelled their comedy acts or their speeches in the university.
00:09:40.000 Now we see the censorship industrial complex using that sort of woke culture and tapping into it to suggest that people are engaged in hate speech.
00:09:48.000 They're tapping into fears of COVID.
00:09:51.000 We saw climate change, trans issues.
00:09:54.000 So they just keep finding more justifications, more reasons to censor you.
00:09:58.000 I think we have to remind people that our societies have never been more tolerant of racial, religious, and sexual minorities than they are today.
00:10:05.000 Over 95% of Americans support the right of black and white people to get married, up from just about 4% in the 1950s.
00:10:12.000 I mean, compare how much more tolerant we are to how people were 50 years ago, 100 years ago.
00:10:18.000 So this idea that there's more hatred in the society is itself a hateful idea.
00:10:23.000 It stems right out of the Hillary Clinton idea that there's these deplorables, these terrible people that support Trump, that there's somehow some rise in these hateful attitudes.
00:10:32.000 There's no evidence for it.
00:10:33.000 In fact, it's just the opposite.
00:10:34.000 We're more tolerant.
00:10:36.000 We're more loving as a people than we've ever been.
00:10:38.000 In the way that free speech is being framed as a right-wing issue, it sometimes feels to me, like within the spaces in media that we all operate in, like here on Rumble, you know, click the red button, join us on Locals, that there is almost a A tendency and a trend for the right to actually to be advocating on behalf of these issues so but you don't strike me as a person that would be traditionally affiliated with the Republican Party or right-wing movements you strike me as I guess you would be old-fashioned metropolitan liberal type of a person I mean these are just guesses I'm basing on having spoken to
00:11:17.000 Oh, for sure.
00:11:17.000 I mean, I was a Democrat until about a year and a half ago.
00:11:20.000 I'm an independent now.
00:11:22.000 But yeah, when I was growing up, when I graduated from high school, the Supreme Court ruled that you could burn the American flag.
00:11:27.000 It was Republicans and conservatives who thought that should be prohibited.
00:11:31.000 The ACLU was a defender of the right of neo-Nazis to build a march through Jewish neighborhoods,
00:11:37.000 including neighborhoods of Holocaust survivors.
00:11:39.000 It was the left that was the defender of free speech.
00:11:42.000 That's basically reversed itself.
00:11:43.000 So when we were antagonized in front of Congress, Matt Taibbi and me, we were being criticized
00:11:47.000 by Democrats who have been demanding more censorship.
00:11:51.000 I think it's because Republicans are now in the minority.
00:11:54.000 They're feeling persecuted and the Democrats and progressives are really on this holy war
00:11:58.000 of wokeism.
00:11:59.000 And it's just stemmed right out of that.
00:12:01.000 So you have cancel culture from the bottom, censorship industrial complex from the top.
00:12:05.000 That's why it's important to have principles that are transcendent of usual political affiliations,
00:12:11.000 Is there a figure in political and public life who, more than Donald Trump, somehow exemplifies these new differences, this demagoguery?
00:12:19.000 And what do you think in particular about this latest round of... Are they attacks on Trump, indeed?
00:12:25.000 Let me know in the chat if that's how you regard it.
00:12:27.000 Or is Trump a felon?
00:12:29.000 Is Trump a danger to democracy?
00:12:32.000 Is Trump an enemy of the state?
00:12:34.000 Or is Trump being curtailed and controlled precisely because he's a kind of berserker bull in the china shop?
00:12:41.000 And also, if you could cover in this rather corroming question, What do you, not what do you imagine is in these boxes?
00:12:47.000 Branko Marković has said that they potentially contain US plans to attack Iran and is that in particular part of the problem here?
00:12:57.000 And more generally, when dealing with whistleblowers, shouldn't we be talking about the content of what they're conveying rather than the individuals themselves?
00:13:03.000 I mean, what I think people have to understand is that we have this amazing system in the United States.
00:13:07.000 We have checks and balances.
00:13:09.000 We have a Supreme Court.
00:13:10.000 When people saw the riot at the Capitol on January 6th, which was a total disaster, it was terrible, you have to remember that that's not the same as a coup.
00:13:17.000 I've lived in Latin America.
00:13:18.000 I've seen what coups look like.
00:13:20.000 It's when the military takes over the Supreme Court.
00:13:23.000 It's when they dissolve Congress.
00:13:24.000 It's when they take over the newspapers.
00:13:26.000 The idea that our system is so fragile that a president who denies the results of the elections, if that's what you think happened, or expresses skepticism, the idea that that somehow would result in the overthrow of the government is bizarre.
00:13:39.000 So there's some sense among a lot of progressives in the United States right now that our system is fragile.
00:13:45.000 And so we've seen that in the culture, too.
00:13:47.000 This treatment of children is fragile.
00:13:49.000 The democracy is fragile.
00:13:51.000 Everybody is fragile.
00:13:52.000 And I think we have to get back to the sense in which we're resilient, we're strong.
00:13:56.000 Our country is capable of dealing with different opinions.
00:13:58.000 That's the heart of what it means to live in a liberal democracy.
00:14:01.000 There's an interesting piece of cultural diagnosis that you've just offered there.
00:14:05.000 The Romantic period, perhaps, was defined by art and poetry that portrayed nature herself as a vital goddess that could hold, herald, contain, destroy, us all and then nature too has become subject to this
00:14:22.000 framing of fragility and perhaps deeper psychic wounds are being worked through at this time.
00:14:30.000 Now when the news cycle starts to seriously carry stories about UFOs, which I know a lot
00:14:35.000 of our viewers think are false flags, that think we're being fed these stories to distract
00:14:41.000 us, that there's no truth to them.
00:14:43.000 For me, it feels like this is something seismic, this is something epochal is happening.
00:14:48.000 Our framing of reality is starting to glitch and alter, even if the stories are being used somehow as a distraction.
00:14:55.000 What's your take on these stories, Michael?
00:14:57.000 I mean, what I'll say, so I wrote a Twitter files thread about the Hunter Biden laptop, and what we saw was a genuine operation by retired CIA people, retired or so-called retired FBI people, spreading disinformation about the Hunter Biden laptop, suggesting that it was a result of Russian disinformation.
00:15:14.000 Same thing with Russiagate around Trump, the idea that he was somehow a Russian asset despite no evidence for that.
00:15:19.000 What you're seeing with UFOs is the exact opposite.
00:15:22.000 The whistleblowers are themselves fearful and persecuted.
00:15:27.000 The people that I interviewed, The people off the record, they were terrified to talk.
00:15:33.000 They did not want their names being used.
00:15:35.000 They were not part of some orchestrated disinformation campaign.
00:15:38.000 We should never rule out that there's some possibility that's what's going on.
00:15:41.000 Certainly the military has used UFOs in the past to sort of distract people's attention from secret spy activities.
00:15:48.000 But what we've seen here is the whistleblower that came forward, this person David Grush, Very highly rated, had top secret clearance.
00:15:56.000 He went to the Defense Department office to study UFOs called Aero.
00:16:01.000 They were not passing the information on to Congress.
00:16:03.000 He then went to Congress because they had set aside a special whistleblower program for him.
00:16:08.000 And then various people came forward.
00:16:10.000 I spoke to them after our testimony.
00:16:11.000 People trusted us and said, we want to go to you and talk to you about what's really going on.
00:16:15.000 And they said, David Grush is the real deal.
00:16:17.000 This is really happening.
00:16:18.000 We do have UFOs that we've captured over the years.
00:16:22.000 It sounds totally crazy.
00:16:24.000 I'm just reporting what people have told me and these are people that were very fearful this was not coming from official sources in contrast to Russiagate and the Hunter Biden laptop where it was official people publicly saying this is Russian disinformation.
00:16:38.000 That's not what's going on here with UFOs.
00:16:39.000 Right, so to you these seem like legitimate stories and I suppose the real- like prior- it's interesting Michael because we're talking to you already we can see how there's been cultural shifts around what have been regarded as Almost defining issues.
00:16:57.000 Free speech.
00:16:58.000 I just sort of assumed free speech, that's a left-wing thing, because free speech, because of alternative lifestyles, alternative forms of identity.
00:17:05.000 Free speech, the right to speak out against power.
00:17:07.000 That's what free speech is.
00:17:08.000 This peculiar reversal of the magnetism that, no, no, no, your free speech is dangerous and it's threatening and it's the role of the state to shut down this hateful speech.
00:17:19.000 Yes.
00:17:20.000 Now that the state has plainly rejected any role to oppose corporate power, globalist hegemony.
00:17:27.000 Let me know in the chat if you think that that shift has occurred.
00:17:29.000 Similarly, we're seeing a shift in a subject like UFOs, which was the preserve of nut jobs, crackpots, potheads and crack house denizens, becoming something that's seriously discussed by credible journalists like me and amateur hobbyist journalists, by credible journalists like you.
00:17:46.000 So what do you, do you ever, Yeah, for sure.
00:17:49.000 I mean, I think that what we saw with the Twitter files is that it wasn't just about sort of woke culture demanding censorship.
00:17:56.000 same way that you've suggested that fragility appears to be an underlying idea when it comes
00:17:59.000 to democracy.
00:18:00.000 Yeah, for sure.
00:18:01.000 I mean, I think that what we saw with the Twitter files is that it wasn't just about
00:18:04.000 sort of woke culture demanding censorship.
00:18:06.000 It was also about former FBI, CIA, DOD, Department of Homeland Security demanding censorship
00:18:13.000 by Twitter.
00:18:14.000 So what you're really seeing is after the war on terrorism, because it was very successful,
00:18:19.000 the United States basically succeeded, you had this huge infrastructure built up to fight
00:18:23.000 the war on terror.
00:18:25.000 of those people then.
00:18:26.000 Turned their guns domestically toward towards inward.
00:18:30.000 So you saw in the Obama years this transition occurred and then really it was the revolutions of 2016.
00:18:34.000 It was Brexit.
00:18:36.000 It was the election of Trump and the establishment got very freaked out that they were going to see basically an unraveling of the liberal world order of NATO of the Western Alliance Britain pulling out of the EU.
00:18:48.000 And they panicked and they said, we've got to turn these very powerful weapons of disinformation and censorship that we've been using in other countries against the American people.
00:18:59.000 And that's what's been going on.
00:19:00.000 So the censorship itself is not often just about preventing us from seeing the information.
00:19:05.000 It's also about spreading disinformation.
00:19:07.000 So the Hunter Biden laptop, It wasn't that people didn't hear about the story, but it's that people like myself, because I thought, I believed it, I thought it was Russian disinformation, because that's what Twitter said, that's what Facebook said, that's what all the mainstream media said.
00:19:19.000 So what you're seeing is an orchestrated influence operation, they call it, they used to call it PSYOPs, or an information operation, being waged against the American people.
00:19:28.000 You mentioned before the vaccines.
00:19:31.000 They were censoring true stories of vaccine side effects because they were worried it would lead to an outcome they didn't want, which was vaccine hesitancy.
00:19:38.000 So what we're seeing, experiencing and living in is a highly curated public space where the principle of freedom, not only freedom of speech but freedom itself, is being incrementally eroded.
00:19:53.000 We're seeing a rise of authoritarianism.
00:19:56.000 But with a new aesthetic and in a sense it's quite obvious after the despotism of the previous century that it wouldn't be a militaristic veiled version of fascism or the centralized authority that we would see but this new emergent phenomena where we're being told that we're being cared for that there's this sort of extraordinary aesthetic of protection that's Yeah, you got it.
00:20:27.000 Yeah, you absolutely got it.
00:20:28.000 It's done in the name of taking care of, but look, they're chasing us all around.
00:20:31.000 I mean, they're chasing, you're chasing people off of YouTube.
00:20:33.000 Now you got to go to Rumble.
00:20:35.000 They chased us off of Facebook.
00:20:36.000 We broke the story where we found the first three people to get sick from COVID on Twitter.
00:20:42.000 It had been viewed 5 million times and we put it on Facebook.
00:20:45.000 It had been shared five times.
00:20:47.000 Not 5,000 times, not 5 million times, shared five times because they are clearly throttling us on Facebook about this.
00:20:55.000 So, you know, it's, I mean, if Elon Musk hadn't taken over Twitter, and people have a lot of criticisms of Elon, some of them fair, some unfair, but if he hadn't taken over Twitter, we wouldn't have known about the extent of the censorship.
00:21:05.000 And now we're able to get this information out about COVID origins, about vaccine side effects, a whole set of other issues.
00:21:12.000 And they're just not done.
00:21:12.000 They keep trying to censor him.
00:21:14.000 You know, you may have seen when he was off in China taking care of his Tesla plants.
00:21:18.000 His own people at Twitter censored this movie, What Is A Woman?
00:21:22.000 He came back.
00:21:23.000 He had to fire his top censor from Twitter.
00:21:25.000 So it's just, it's everywhere.
00:21:27.000 And this is why it requires a movement that's across borders.
00:21:30.000 We have to fight on all fronts because they are actually cracking down everywhere at the same time, including on YouTube.
00:21:36.000 How can this movement Deny and in fact countenance the charge that it is one-sided without ensuring that there are voices from across the political spectrum and in particular around the issues and movements that are being used to legitimize censorship.
00:21:59.000 Isn't it important that the presentation of this movement necessarily includes voices from across the spectrum?
00:22:05.000 Because In this sort of highly tribalized environment, I feel like just with you, our audience, and let us know if you agree, that there's almost an appetite to turn it into a us versus them war, to sort of lean into a sort of something that's simple, like the argument around Bud Light or the argument around what is a woman, where like me personally, I don't care how people identify.
00:22:26.000 I feel like people should be able to do whatever they want.
00:22:29.000 It's when it comes down to censorship and the inability of people to have opposing views that I feel like we're in difficult situations.
00:22:35.000 Yeah, and we have seen that now.
00:22:36.000 So The Guardian yesterday reported that the head of the Green Party, Caroline Lucas in Britain, had been surveilled and watched for her tweets on COVID.
00:22:47.000 We know that also they're cracking down on critics of the war in Ukraine.
00:22:51.000 So it's not a left-right thing, but it's definitely an elite populist thing.
00:22:56.000 What you're seeing is really a big concern from the establishment, from elites, to control the information that we're able to receive and also to control whether we perceive it as accurate or inaccurate.
00:23:05.000 It's interesting that you use the term populism at this point, Michael, because I have a sense that what's required is a new mass movement more broadly that's international, trans-political, and is indeed populist.
00:23:20.000 But populism has become something of a dirty word.
00:23:23.000 politics. But for me the idea that ordinary people ought be able to
00:23:29.000 democratically decide for themselves how their communities are run, what kind of
00:23:33.000 legislation they're subject to, without the assumption that there is the
00:23:36.000 requirement for a technocratic cadre to legislate, to control information.
00:23:40.000 Elitism is the key word isn't it?
00:23:43.000 It's determined that there is an expert class that ought be able to control information.
00:23:48.000 And when they use one dialectic to shut down discourse, like, oh, these people are right-wing, that's why we have to censor them, then a figure like RFK emerges.
00:23:59.000 Ah, well, you see, he's anti-vax, so we have to shut him down.
00:24:02.000 And in the end, what you see is that there's only a very narrow window within which we're allowed to converse at all.
00:24:10.000 That's right.
00:24:10.000 And when they're engaged in a cover-up, like they were doing around the lab leak, they say anybody who says there's a potential lab leak is engaged in a conspiracy theory.
00:24:19.000 You have to see it all as a kind of psychological projection.
00:24:23.000 The people that are conspiring are accusing others of engaging in a conspiracy theory.
00:24:26.000 The people that are waging campaigns of disinformation are accusing others of disinformation.
00:24:30.000 But I think you're absolutely right.
00:24:31.000 I mean, at bottom, there is just a kind of snobbery here.
00:24:35.000 There's some sense in which I should decide what you should be able to read.
00:24:39.000 I should decide what you should build.
00:24:41.000 It goes back to Plato wanting to have control over the information the public received.
00:24:41.000 It's very old.
00:24:45.000 We rejected that.
00:24:46.000 We got rid of that 250 years ago.
00:24:48.000 The people that created the United States of America, there were some people who said, hey, you need free speech so you can have a democracy and you can have free markets.
00:24:54.000 But there were other people, and I think they really got more into the spirit of it, who said, To have free speech is to be fully human.
00:25:01.000 It's to be able to breathe and to eat and to live.
00:25:03.000 You're not fully a human being without your ability to express your own views.
00:25:08.000 Right or wrong?
00:25:09.000 I mean, often we don't know what the right answer is until you have a chance to have an argument.
00:25:14.000 You need to be comfortable, and this is the saddest thing with woke culture, you have to feel free to be wrong and express some half-baked idea in order to get your head right.
00:25:24.000 And you can't do that without, you often can't be right without being wrong.
00:25:28.000 Even though within the woke culture, if it's fair to use that term, I sense ideas that are really valuable about protecting people's rights to be who they are and nurture and care and even a term as broad and potentially unhelpful as love could be identified as what's beneath this movement.
00:25:50.000 The problem is, of course, is that it extracts the ability for salvation, redemption, forgiveness, communication.
00:25:56.000 It becomes, ultimately, a bad faith argument.
00:25:59.000 The assumption that people are negative and ought be maligned and ought be shut down, and that the answer is increasing control.
00:26:06.000 I'm sure you're familiar with, in fact, you're probably the person who introduced me to Guri's book there, The Revolt of the Public, and his broader perspective is, as you just outlined, these old establishment models are under threat, whether it's NATO, or CNN, or the BBC, whether they're media, government, or global organizations, they are becoming untenable because of the miracle of the communications miracle that's taken place In the last 20 years, one pathway leads to more self-organization, more democracy, an ability to curate from a variety of different views, a good faith conversation.
00:26:45.000 I almost sort of sometimes contemplate an alternative recent past, where at the beginning they were able to go, oh Joe Rogan's got some interesting stuff to say, and he's bringing on this guy Robert Malone, and he did invent this particular aspect of it, and these people have got an interesting view about lab leaks.
00:27:01.000 But It seemed like authority itself was the aim.
00:27:06.000 To regulate itself was the aim.
00:27:08.000 Even something as plainly observable as the profits of Pfizer, the increased power of big tech, the wealth transfer of trillions, don't seem to be the master plan, merely tendrils that hang from its undercarriage.
00:27:24.000 It's the beast of authority itself that's slouching towards it.
00:27:27.000 Yeah, we're seeing this right now.
00:27:28.000 I mean, the big debate over the last 48 hours on Twitter was because a vaccine advocate named Peter Hotez criticized Joe Rogan for having Robert F. Kennedy on, and then later said something to the effect of, well, science isn't about having debate.
00:27:42.000 Well, science is absolutely about having debate.
00:27:44.000 I mean, that's how you figure out the right answer.
00:27:46.000 You have hypotheses, you test them, you subject them to argument.
00:27:50.000 If you're afraid, I mean there's a weird mixture of arrogance and insecurity here.
00:27:55.000 On the one hand it's arrogance to say, I know the right answer and you should not be allowed to express your opinion.
00:28:00.000 But there's also some insecurity that you're so fragile that you can't actually subject your ideas to some sort of debate.
00:28:07.000 Joe Rogan, like he hosts podcasts that go for like three hours.
00:28:10.000 There's plenty of time in three hours to be able to surface your ideas.
00:28:14.000 So what are you so afraid of?
00:28:15.000 And so really, again, once again, you see this idea that the public or that democracy is too fragile to allow debate is itself a kind of projection from, I think, very fragile people.
00:28:27.000 Also that neglects to acknowledge that when we're talking about science, you can't just have that as like an orb of language that conveys veracity, experimentation, double-blind clinical trials.
00:28:39.000 Science often is a subset of a deeper ideology, particularly and observably science was utilised, and let me know if you agree with this in the chat, science was utilised as a sort of a measure of authoritarianism.
00:28:53.000 That you cannot argue with this particular bit of science.
00:28:56.000 My God, Gareth and I do this show five times a week.
00:29:00.000 It's almost impossible to track the number of arguments that began at position A, which legitimised authoritarianism, and we found our way all the way to Z, not Z, where you cannot countenance these arguments.
00:29:14.000 Lockdowns may not have worked.
00:29:16.000 Masks may not have worked.
00:29:17.000 The vaccines were not effective in the ways they were initially argued.
00:29:20.000 Well that's right and also people have a very simplistic idea sometimes about what the truth is or what the facts are.
00:29:24.000 It just again, they said they weren't going to profit.
00:29:26.000 They did profit.
00:29:27.000 In the end, it just becomes a sort of a real-time example of how new authoritarianism functions.
00:29:33.000 And also, people have a very simplistic idea sometimes about what the truth is or about what the facts are.
00:29:33.000 Well, that's right.
00:29:39.000 If you just look at the COVID crisis, at the vaccine, the COVID variants kept evolving and changing and the
00:29:47.000 vaccine had changing efficacy with different variants over time and ultimately was the Omicron variant that
00:29:54.000 resulted in really the end of the pandemic.
00:29:56.000 So we had a very, it was a very simplistic picture at the beginning, which was we're going to lock everybody down, and then everybody will get these vaccines, and then we'll have herd immunity.
00:30:04.000 It didn't work that way at all.
00:30:05.000 It didn't work at all how they predicted it.
00:30:07.000 So the idea that Truth doesn't stand still.
00:30:11.000 It's constantly evolving.
00:30:12.000 Reality is constantly changing and that means that the explanations of reality and the knowledge has to keep evolving with it.
00:30:18.000 I sense your argument about terrorism and the measures that were undertaken in order
00:30:22.000 to oppose terrorism and how they were later utilized and repurposed in order to create
00:30:27.000 this sort of domestic control might be prevalent here.
00:30:30.000 Once you evoke these powers, it's difficult to put these powers down.
00:30:34.000 It's difficult to acknowledge that you're no longer in the climate where that's required.
00:30:38.000 It's like there's some invisible momentum behind these ideas.
00:30:41.000 Now returning to this censorship industrial complex, what does a movement that opposes
00:30:45.000 it look like?
00:30:46.000 So initially exposure, laughing about it, being clear about it.
00:30:50.000 How do we, you know, with this event we've got coming up in London, with presumably this
00:30:54.000 being some contract that's going to be carried out over time, Michael, because you can't
00:30:57.000 just show up in London like some, like some, uh, like this is some one night stand between
00:31:02.000 you, me and Matt Tybee.
00:31:04.000 Otherwise I'm going to revert to the side of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and see you as
00:31:07.000 so-called journalists, Flybernites, Twitter exploiters and charlatans.
00:31:12.000 How does this become something that plays out over time?
00:31:16.000 How does it become something that essentially opposes the legislation that's being passed in the Five Eyes countries to penalise platforms that house free speech?
00:31:25.000 And how do we ensure that we are able to say free speech is everybody's free speech?
00:31:29.000 Is the free speech of people that are all over the spectrum when it comes to even issues of identity politics?
00:31:37.000 With this being, I believe, the 10th anniversary of Snowden being charged with espionage, with Trump being charged with espionage right now, with free speech seeming to be under more threat now than ever before, with Snowden himself saying that the measures and surveillance capabilities that are available now dwarf what was going on when he made those exposures, how robust and inclusive must a movement to oppose it be?
00:32:04.000 Well, I think the most important thing is that we need to go on the offensive.
00:32:08.000 And so we're tired of defending our strong First Amendment protections of free speech from other countries.
00:32:13.000 So what we want to do is work with these new friends.
00:32:16.000 It was just very exciting.
00:32:17.000 People are coming from around the world to join our movement here, and we're going to help everybody to go on the offensive.
00:32:23.000 They should have more free speech rights in other countries.
00:32:26.000 We should not have fewer.
00:32:27.000 So we're going to help them to change their laws around the world to expand free speech so that it's closer to the very high golden standard of First Amendment rights in the United States.
00:32:39.000 That's the first thing.
00:32:40.000 The second thing is that we just have to expose these organizations and defund them and then dismantle them.
00:32:47.000 Many of these organizations are... Matt Taibbi created a report of 50 of the most important censorship organizations.
00:32:56.000 These are non-governmental organizations, government contractors.
00:33:00.000 He created a report of them so we know their names, we know where they are, so we can just go to lawmakers in the United States and other countries and say, please stop funding this group.
00:33:09.000 Or if this group is doing other good work, as it may be the case, then fund that, but tell them they must no longer engage in censorship activities.
00:33:17.000 You mentioned Snowden.
00:33:19.000 Even in that case, I think people thought at the time that it was just about surveillance.
00:33:23.000 But what we've seen that the surveillance, it doesn't stop with surveillance.
00:33:26.000 The surveillance continues, and then it turns into censorship. So you're monitoring somebody, monitoring
00:33:31.000 it seems innocent enough, I'm just reading their tweets. Well, no, then quickly you're going
00:33:35.000 to Twitter and you're saying, "Please, you need to stop that Russell Brand social media
00:33:39.000 post from going viral," or "You need to make sure that Michael Schellenberger is on a blacklist
00:33:43.000 so that anytime he posts something, it doesn't go viral, it doesn't get fed into
00:33:47.000 other people's feeds." So we need to build that global movement, demand greater free
00:33:52.000 speech rights, expose the censorship industrial complex, and then defund and dismantle them.
00:33:57.000 God, you have got a manifesto. That's good that you've done one of those.
00:34:00.000 Also, I think we should defund and disband Matt Taibbi himself.
00:34:04.000 Disband him, defund him, break him up into all his component parts and release him back into the wild.
00:34:09.000 It will be unfair, Michael Schellenberger, to bring you all this way to the United Kingdom to conduct our conference in London.
00:34:16.000 There's a link in the description and in the chat if you want to get tickets.
00:34:18.000 Without exposing you to Britain's best investigative journalist who needs no introduction, except perhaps this one.
00:34:30.000 I just wondered what you thought about the policies around disinformation in terms of how they relate to the lack of populist policies around economy now.
00:34:41.000 I read an article by Li Fang this week about Obama taking advantage of tax
00:34:48.000 loopholes that he campaigned against and during his presidency spoke about
00:34:54.000 against and is now using them to pay half the amount of tax that normal
00:34:57.000 everyday Americans pay. So it's interesting that at a time when we go
00:35:01.000 through the pandemic and a wealth transfer that occurs, when we go through
00:35:05.000 the Ukraine war at the moment where companies are making you know record
00:35:09.000 prophets.
00:35:10.000 The way that people are being shut down around disinformation, and Obama himself is someone who was, as Lee Fang writes himself, stopped populist economic arguments altogether in favor of talking about disinformation.
00:35:22.000 That seems to be his thing now, disinformation the same way that Joe Biden's doing it.
00:35:26.000 I just wonder if you think that there's a kind of correlation with the idea that we need to be shutting down people around Disinformation and not remotely talking about economic populist theories and arguments anymore, redistribution of wealth, about what to do, about the fact that all these companies during the pandemic made ludicrous and record profits.
00:35:47.000 Do you think that's something that plays into the use of disinformation policies?
00:35:51.000 Oh, absolutely.
00:35:52.000 I would say they're just two sides of the same coin.
00:35:53.000 I mean, so you saw that one of the threats that the censorship industrial complex emerged to combat was Brexit and the labeling.
00:36:01.000 So you saw with Brexit, the labeling of the supporters of Brexit who wanted greater control over Britain's future, but it was the labeling of supporters of Brexit as racists, as nationalists.
00:36:12.000 You see this strong emphasis on anti-Semitism, a clear attempt to sort of call everybody fascists who support
00:36:19.000 these policies.
00:36:20.000 So I do think there's a very strong relation. Same thing with Trump.
00:36:23.000 The idea was that it's not populism, it's actually fascism.
00:36:27.000 But no, it's clear, I mean, the beneficiaries of globalization overwhelmingly were the upper 1%, top 10%.
00:36:34.000 Those were the folks that were pushing back against Brexit, that won the globalization.
00:36:39.000 There's a lot of benefits to globalization.
00:36:40.000 I've certainly benefited, you know, many of us have benefited from many aspects of it.
00:36:45.000 But I think it got to a point where we started to lose control over it.
00:36:49.000 We didn't really feel like, in all of our countries, that we had much say in it.
00:36:53.000 And it became clear with the censorship that the elites didn't want us to have much say over it.
00:36:58.000 And when we did have say over it, we were saying all the wrong things.
00:37:02.000 Any form of aggregation centralizes power and will require some form of distribution and potentially redistribution.
00:37:10.000 We've seen already that most systems of government do incorporate redistribution of assets and wealth through Subsidy for maintenance of dead systems.
00:37:22.000 The phrase zombie capitalism is one that describes an economic system that's already in decline and perhaps has already experienced collapse.
00:37:28.000 So ultimately, the censorship industrial complex itself is simply a tool to maintain the power of the elite.
00:37:34.000 So Gareth's question was an excellent one that brought together the incentive for the censorship industrial complex.
00:37:43.000 It just helped us.
00:37:43.000 Why the fuck to have this thing in the first place?
00:37:45.000 Well, in order to maintain those systems, right?
00:37:47.000 Well yeah, I mean, look at this issue of the moving of the... Obama, to his great credit, banned gain-of-function research in 2014.
00:37:55.000 Okay, Cambridge, there's a Cambridge working group, they said this is really dangerous, we can't see any clear benefits to this kind of research.
00:38:03.000 No clear benefits?
00:38:04.000 What if there was a pandemic one day?
00:38:06.000 Yeah, well, yeah, so, I mean, exactly.
00:38:08.000 So, yeah, but then Fauci and Collins and this guy Peter Doszak with Equihallow Lines, they moved it to China.
00:38:14.000 They then said, oh, it's not really gain-of-function research, it's chimeric research, and they made up some justification for it.
00:38:20.000 These are unelected officials who are making decisions that ultimately affected everybody on Earth.
00:38:25.000 So I think that's the kind of arrogance, the lack of accountability, You're suggesting that that gain-of-function research that was conducted in China because it was banned in the US had some consequences that we might be aware of.
00:38:37.000 I thought you were going to say Fauci, Daszak and Collins, they moved it to China where they conducted some research in Wuhan and that was the last anyone heard of it.
00:38:47.000 No further problems.
00:38:47.000 And now, if you get a bat coronavirus, you can go to bed at night safe in the knowledge, as Rachel Maddow said, you take one jab and that's it.
00:38:55.000 That's it.
00:38:56.000 You'll be fit as a fiddle.
00:38:57.000 I mean, and there's a technocratic response where they go, well, it was at a too low of a security level lab.
00:39:03.000 It was at BSL 2.
00:39:04.000 It should have been at BSL 4.
00:39:05.000 But the fundamental issue is that these were not issues that were properly debated.
00:39:08.000 It was not decided by Congress.
00:39:10.000 Rand Paul's done a great job drawing attention to this.
00:39:13.000 He has, isn't he?
00:39:14.000 Yeah, he really has.
00:39:14.000 I mean, when I first heard him talking about it, I thought he sounded like a conspiracy theorist, and now I'm finding that he was spot on from the beginning to be alarmed about this.
00:39:22.000 So, we do have dangerous things in the world that we have a lot of care to manage.
00:39:27.000 Radiological, nuclear, chemical, biological.
00:39:31.000 Sometimes they have benefits.
00:39:32.000 There's reasons to keep smallpox, some amount of it around, experiment with it.
00:39:36.000 But the public should have a say in that.
00:39:38.000 We had a huge debate over nuclear power for like 50 years in the Western world.
00:39:43.000 It was a great, and now we have cameras in every nuclear facility.
00:39:47.000 And I'm a big advocate of nuclear power, but I'm shocked when I look at the lack of regulation for coronavirus research.
00:39:54.000 I mean, if they had the level of regulation for nuclear, it might be a different story.
00:39:58.000 Wow, that's fantastic.
00:40:00.000 Thank you, Michael, for pulling together such a vast array of complex subjects, from UFOs, from the microbial, from the microscopic, to the cosmic and cosmological.
00:40:09.000 Michael Schellenberger can be relied on to create true narratives.
00:40:13.000 And alongside his oppo, Matt Taibbi, who can't be here for... What's he doing?
00:40:17.000 Warming his voice up?
00:40:18.000 Finally having some honey and lemon for the voice that he's got, that bloody time.
00:40:23.000 Will be appearing.
00:40:23.000 Look, there's an image there of us, me.
00:40:25.000 That was taken just yesterday, wasn't it, Gareth, that photograph of me?
00:40:28.000 A couple of years ago.
00:40:29.000 There I am, staring Koresh-like out into the future that I simply wasn't prepared for.
00:40:35.000 Join us if you wanna, live in London at Central Hall Westminster.
00:40:38.000 There's a link in the description.
00:40:40.000 But I think we're forming lifelong bonds here to oppose the censorship industrial complex, aren't we?
00:40:45.000 Well, let's hope we can shut it down before our lifelong plans are expiring.
00:40:50.000 Actually, it's so long. We always have one before we leave the space.
00:40:52.000 He wants to keep it going.
00:40:53.000 I like it! It's lucrative, I tell you!
00:40:56.000 Alright, no, shut it down. We'll shut it down in a few weeks, then we can get the old aliens down,
00:40:59.000 start working out what's going on with that. Sounds pretty sexy to me.
00:41:02.000 Get your tickets at censorshipindustrialcomplex.com That's the name of your website.
00:41:07.000 Dot org.
00:41:09.000 That's the distinction.
00:41:10.000 You can learn more from Michael by checking out Public on Substack.
00:41:13.000 I'm a subscriber myself and I enjoy it.
00:41:15.000 I'm always, when I get that email, I'm always, I enjoy that, don't you?
00:41:18.000 Send that across to me.
00:41:19.000 Sometimes I say, oh, I'm in there.
00:41:20.000 Look, I'll scan it for that.
00:41:22.000 No, that's not me.
00:41:22.000 That's not me.
00:41:23.000 That is me there.
00:41:24.000 I don't know if someone else is here.
00:41:25.000 Okay, listen, we're going to leave it now, but we've got a fantastic week.
00:41:28.000 We've got James O'Keefe, him that did that Big Pharma thing, and also he's in a musical of Oklahoma.
00:41:33.000 Who else we got this week?
00:41:34.000 We've got some fantastic people.
00:41:35.000 Oh, the people of it.
00:41:36.000 We've got bloody yoga with Adrian coming on here.
00:41:39.000 I'm going to do actual yoga.
00:41:40.000 There's no point freeing yourself from censorship and then having a lower back issue.
00:41:45.000 Is there? Also you've got to awaken your most dormant systems.
00:41:48.000 We're going to be talking about BlackRock, WFU, Crane, as well as getting in touch with some pretty powerful lower
00:41:53.000 chakra energy over the course of the week.
00:41:55.000 Remember, join our locals community. We're just one red button away.
00:41:59.000 That includes you, Michael. I expect to see you jabbing away at that red button.
00:42:02.000 You can see all of the interviews we've done already with RFK, Richard Dawkins, Jordan Peterson, Marianne Williamson.
00:42:07.000 They're all on there.
00:42:09.000 Also, remember, my stand-up special Brandemic is premiering on the 25th of June on Moment.
00:42:13.000 Pre-order your tickets now.
00:42:14.000 There's a link in the description.
00:42:16.000 But now, in order to celebrate Michael Schellenberger even further, we are covering yet more of the consequences of that pandemic period.
00:42:24.000 During the first month of lockdown, it's been conjectured 18 months was slashed from the life of heart attack victim