Stay Free - Russel Brand - “Nikki Haley THREAT Isn’t Over!” | Vivek On Establishment’s 2024 BIG MONEY Agenda

00:00:00.000 you you

00:01:55.000 brought to you by Fyjer in this video you're going to see the future

00:02:19.000 In this video, you're going to see the future.

00:02:30.000 Hello there you AwakendWonders!

00:02:31.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:02:34.000 It's a fantastic conversation with Vivek Ramaswamy that I'm sure you will enjoy.

00:02:39.000 Is Nikki Haley an establishment stooge?

00:02:42.000 What did he learn from campaigning?

00:02:44.000 Will the 2024 election even go ahead?

00:02:46.000 That was a question posed by a member of our AwakendWonder community that you can join by downloading locals and becoming a member of our community.

00:02:55.000 The app is free, the content is free, but there is additional content for our supporters,

00:02:59.000 like the ability to join us for live conversations, like one exclusive video per week,

00:03:04.000 like this fantastic conversation that is about anti-authoritarianism and reclaiming your individual sovereignty.

00:03:09.000 Have a look.

00:03:10.000 It's a wonderful thing to learn to be able to stand up and yell bullshit,

00:03:17.000 because so much is being slung and nobody is talking about the primacy of experience

00:03:25.000 and the dignity of the individual.

00:03:28.000 The dignity of the individual.

00:03:31.000 We went a long way with this in America before we betrayed it.

00:03:36.000 And it wasn't only betrayed by the clowns in Washington.

00:03:40.000 It's also betrayed by anybody who clusters themselves around the feet of some self-proclaimed nabob.

00:03:47.000 I don't know what nabob means, but I like the idea of the dignity of the individual, because say if you're a libertarian of the right, you believe in tradition, you're Christian, whatever, or you're a very progressive person that believes in non-binary fluid forms of identity.

00:04:01.000 Terence McKenna is saying that should be respected, the sovereignty of the individual.

00:04:05.000 I hear that spoken of a lot, that within you as an individual is something that should be regarded.

00:04:09.000 That's why you don't tread on people, you push people around, you don't know what it's like to be them.

00:04:13.000 You allow people to be who they are and try and find ways of frucinpatico and consent.

00:04:20.000 Cooperating with one another, I suppose like Sesame Street.

00:04:22.000 Cooperation!

00:04:25.000 The first 15 minutes of the conversation will be available on YouTube.

00:04:29.000 Oh, let me have a spritz of the old Charlize.

00:04:31.000 Keeps me young and beautiful and powerful.

00:04:34.000 But then we'll only be on Rumble.

00:04:37.000 So, as you know, Vivek Ramaswamy is a Republican presidential candidate.

00:04:41.000 He's founded multi-billion dollar enterprises, led a biotech company, is CIO, trained as a scientist at Harvard, and you can follow Vivek on X at VivekG...

00:04:50.000 Ramaswamy.

00:04:51.000 Here's the conversation.

00:04:52.000 Remember, we recorded this earlier with our locals community, which you can join at any time.

00:04:58.000 And then you'll be a part of our conversations with brilliant auteurs and anti-establishment figures.

00:05:04.000 But now without further delay, Vivek Ramaswamy.

00:05:09.000 Thank you so much for joining us for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:05:12.000 It's lovely to see you.

00:05:13.000 Good to see you, man.

00:05:16.000 What an adjustment you have made.

00:05:17.000 You've gone from campaigning and therefore I suppose to a degree on the very front line to being in this new position of advocacy.

00:05:28.000 I was very much enjoying some of the interviews you were doing with CNN when you spoke about January 6th.

00:05:34.000 How do you feel now that your role is to support Do you feel relieved?

00:05:43.000 Do you feel excited?

00:05:44.000 And will you be, do you imagine, part of the administration in the event of a Trump victory?

00:05:51.000 Yeah, so I'm not a big advanced planner.

00:05:54.000 It's one of the things that my life has taught me, Russell, is your plans are stupid.

00:05:59.000 At least for me.

00:06:00.000 I don't know about you, but whenever you sort of made dead set plans and plot everything out, it never goes according to that plan anyway.

00:06:09.000 I did run for president with the sole intention of being the next president.

00:06:13.000 The beauty of this country is that's up to the people, and the people made clear who they want this time, which is the other America First leader who's tried and true, who's done it before, and that's Donald Trump, and he has my full support.

00:06:24.000 But my strategy, I think, going forward, whatever I do, is going to be the same as it was during the campaign, which is to speak the truth, speak in an unvarnished way, or at the very least, at least my true view, what it is.

00:06:37.000 And I think that we don't have enough of that in our culture anymore amongst politicians, amongst media personalities.

00:06:43.000 And so that's what I'm going to continue to do, is to especially speak hard truths that maybe are a little bit beneath the surface of what the rest of the corporate media is scratching on issues that matter to me.

00:06:53.000 I think I'm paying a lot more attention increasingly to what is, I think, a smokescreen around the current border debate in the United States.

00:07:01.000 I think that going deeper into some of the themes that I raised in the campaign trail about the media's dishonesty remain of interest to me, from the truth of what happened on January 6th to the truth of what happened with the origin of COVID.

00:07:12.000 I mean, we can go straight down that list.

00:07:15.000 I've even had some more recent experiences with the media's intentional distortion of things that I've said late in the campaign or towards the end of it.

00:07:22.000 Regardless, I think restoring media honesty, or at least the public's understanding of the media's dishonesty, remains a passion of mine after the campaign as it did during the campaign.

00:07:33.000 And I think all of that is going to be helpful in making sure that not only is Donald Trump elected as the next president, but that our America First movement, our I would say a George Washingtonian movement that began in 1776 is able to be carried forward another 250 years, and then some.

00:07:52.000 And so that's my focus, and whatever form that takes, be it inside government or out, I'm all in for doing my small part to make this country's future a reality.

00:08:02.000 One of the reasons that we were excited about you on our channel is your ability to communicate, your ability to pull together a variety of ideas, to present cogent arguments spontaneously, and I've been fond of saying that you are the first true social media political figure Because of course, you know, RFK has benefited hugely from the way that legacy media has lost its stranglehold on the minds of American people.

00:08:32.000 Donald Trump, through his use of Twitter, was able to sort of govern through social media and certainly influence powerfully.

00:08:39.000 And even like in countries like Greece and Spain, there were movements like Syriza and Podemos that were doubtless anti-establishment movements.

00:08:46.000 Do you feel That it's going to be impossible for the legacy media to ever again regain the kind of control over the minds of the American and indeed global population.

00:08:58.000 Do you see this raft of censorship laws like the online safety bill in the UK, the laws being passed across the EU in Canada and some of the stuff proposed in your country as a direct threat to independent media?

00:09:10.000 And do you think that we'll see more political figures like you emerging across the world?

00:09:16.000 They're essentially bypassing authoritarian centralised legacy media and their affiliated groups, be they corporate or state.

00:09:26.000 Yeah, so I like the way you framed that, by the way.

00:09:29.000 Affiliated groups.

00:09:30.000 I mean, in the U.S., you do have a quasi-state media.

00:09:33.000 It's not really the traditional version of what you think of as state media, but it's like a game theory, right?

00:09:38.000 In a game theoretic, repeated game, they start behaving as though they're like state media because they get a pat on the back when they do.

00:09:45.000 So I'll make a couple of observations, Russell.

00:09:47.000 One is, the trend is definitely in the direction that you just mentioned, which is, I think, bypassing that corporate media.

00:09:52.000 But a couple of observations to make beyond that.

00:09:55.000 I think that we're nowhere near that being the sole decisive factor.

00:09:59.000 To the contrary, one of my learnings in this campaign is that for better or worse, I think it's for worse, the legacy corporate media still played and continues to play in this election a major role in defining the public's perception of individual candidates and the issues that are put in front of them.

00:10:16.000 People like to think of themselves as independent, but I think it's part of our human nature that most of us still behave like sheep.

00:10:23.000 There's a sheep and there's a lion inside each of us.

00:10:23.000 Right?

00:10:26.000 And I think it's true of you, it's true of me, it's true of every human being.

00:10:28.000 It's wired in each of us.

00:10:30.000 But as much as we like to think of ourselves as independent consumers, it's less about the top-down battle between independent media and corporate media, but more, what is it inside each of us that makes us want to bend the knee to some kind of authority?

00:10:44.000 And I think that element that makes you still even think, okay, I'm not believing what I'm being force-fed by CNN or cable news or whatever, There's an element of it, the sheep inside each of us, that views that as a legitimizing filter.

00:10:56.000 And one of the things I learned during the campaign is, even as much as people will seek independent alternative opinions, right now we're still in a place where, if we're being honest, most of the electorate, especially people above the age of 40, View that as still, even if they're consuming some of their information independently, they still view that as the alt, as the alternative, as the indie track that they want to hear, but it's not necessarily, it causes them to question what they still view as the traditional means of consuming information.

00:11:24.000 So, Where I think is, yes, the optimistic side is what you said is true, that's the evolution we're seeing.

00:11:30.000 But the realistic, even I would say somewhat pessimistic side is that's a very gradual trend and something that I might have wished to have happened over a matter of years, that we would already be there.

00:11:40.000 No, we're far from it.

00:11:41.000 I think it's going to be a slow trajectory in weaning away the impact of that legacy corporate media.

00:11:49.000 The other thing I will say is the kinds of candidates that you're talking about, it's not just, what should I say, an implementation question, right?

00:11:57.000 Some people think, you know, well, why don't you just serve this up to, and I don't want to pick on any other individual candidate in this election, but pick your favorite professional politician.

00:12:04.000 Why didn't they do it like you're doing it?

00:12:06.000 And if so, they would have been far more successful.

00:12:09.000 Okay, fine.

00:12:10.000 I'll just use a specific example that I hear all the time.

00:12:12.000 Ron DeSantis, right?

00:12:13.000 I think that, okay, why didn't he run the campaign that you ran?

00:12:16.000 And, you know, wouldn't that have just been better advice that his consultants could have given him?

00:12:21.000 Maybe that'd be some of the answer.

00:12:23.000 Or pick any other candidate, too.

00:12:24.000 It's not limited to one person.

00:12:27.000 I think part of this is it's not just, oh, you turned that on and then you did the social media.

00:12:32.000 Part of what that modality demands is the ability to spontaneously respond, to actually share what your own independent thoughts are.

00:12:41.000 In order for you to do that, first, you have to have independent thoughts.

00:12:44.000 Second, you have to be willing to share them.

00:12:46.000 And I think that that's something that most political candidates, both in the United States and traditional politicians who run for office around the world, don't actually have.

00:12:54.000 And I don't say that cynically.

00:12:56.000 I say that what politics has become in much of the developed world, certainly in the United States, is an assembly line, right?

00:13:01.000 The politicians are the products.

00:13:03.000 The system churns them out like they're on an assembly line, a motor conveyor.

00:13:09.000 Henry Ford would be proud in terms of the repeatability of producing these kinds of products.

00:13:15.000 But one thing about being a product is that you lose the ability to either have independent thoughts, or even for those who still have the vestige of the ability to have those independent thoughts left, have a reluctance to share that without going through the normal assembly line procedure.

00:13:30.000 And so, you know, I think that in the case of other candidates, one of the things I've learned about as many more good people, you know, I think that maybe the candidates that competed against Not all of them, but many of them are good people, but they're not wired in a way that allows themselves to either have those independent thoughts or to share them with the public at large, Republicans and Democrats alike.

00:13:50.000 And so it's not just a matter of coaching more candidates that you're going to see using social media.

00:13:54.000 That makes it sound like an implementation or a plumbing experiment.

00:13:59.000 I think part of what you're seeing is far more what kinds of candidates are selected for.

00:14:05.000 Is it the kind of candidate that's going to speak in an unfiltered way and take some risk?

00:14:08.000 I mean, there's good reasons people don't want to do this, right?

00:14:11.000 Something you'll say on the medium that you and I are having right now will inevitably be helicopter lifted from this conversation to the modality of linear cable media.

00:14:21.000 And they will take something disproportionately out of context.

00:14:24.000 Maybe it's a joke.

00:14:25.000 This happened to me in the last couple of weeks.

00:14:27.000 Say something in a joking tone, and then legacy corporate media purposefully knows how to exploit that in the context of an hour.

00:14:34.000 It might be a joke in reference to something that you and I said half an hour ago, but if you're doing a two-minute clip, that is the perfect fodder for lifting that out and having that distorted in a way that penalizes the person from using that media in the first place.

00:14:48.000 Which then sees a confluence between both the kind of legacy corporate media and the kind of political politician creators, how those two things converge, is they create the disincentive for politicians to engage in new media in the first place.

00:15:04.000 Because so long as legacy media matters, and as I said before, it actually does, like it or not, it still does.

00:15:09.000 It's a slow burn away from it.

00:15:11.000 That's legacy media's effective attack on new media, is you create the disincentive for political participants to engage in that new media, because if they do, you increase the risk of the consequence of the price they'll have to pay by the price that legacy media extracts from them.

00:15:25.000 And so that ends up becoming a complex game, a cat and mouse game between legacy and new media, using the politicians and the incentives you create for them as a way of reclaiming what otherwise would have more naturally gone in the direction of decentralized media.

00:15:38.000 So I'm sure I'm rambling, but maybe some...

00:15:41.000 No, it makes a lot of sense because in a sense what you're, it seems, illuminating is the idea that this type of media for an anti-establishment candidate is successful.

00:15:53.000 In an environment where recently there was a poll in the UK, which politician would you like to lead the UK?

00:16:02.000 current PM Rishi Sunak, leader of the opposition Kirstarma of Vladimir Putin.

00:16:08.000 And Vladimir Putin won by 90% just because there's been so much bombardment.

00:16:13.000 It was a poll of 40,000 people.

00:16:15.000 And if your position is, I do not trust the establishment, whether that's deep state agencies,

00:16:20.000 the government itself, corporations, legacy media, you can operate in these looser, long-form spaces,

00:16:27.000 knowing that people almost have a, if not a sophistication, a tolerance that if you make some joke or reference about

00:16:34.000 Nikki Haley or the Koch brothers, or some reference to Ron DeSantis, that people recognize,

00:16:39.000 or Trump saying I'll be dictator for a day, people seeing that...

00:16:43.000 Oh, that was a joke.

00:16:45.000 They won't deliberately extract it, narrativize it, knowing that it will have a certain amount of impact.

00:16:50.000 In fact, I was really struck by a speech that Barack Obama gave at Stanford immediately prior to some proposed legislation to introduce further censorship to social media spaces, where what Barack Obama said was that independent media, even when people don't believe it, it muddies the water.

00:17:09.000 And I thought, actually, the reverse is true.

00:17:11.000 It's the legacy media that muddies the war, even when you're at the point where you think, no, hold on, Ukraine can't beat Russia in a war.

00:17:18.000 It doesn't matter how long we perpetuate it.

00:17:21.000 Ultimately, Russia will be successful unless it escalates to being a conflict that involves more nations.

00:17:27.000 But you're able to sort of Hold at bay that obvious conclusion by muddying the water or it seems like they never clinically trialled these medicines for transmission.

00:17:39.000 Why on earth were they saying you'll kill grandma?

00:17:42.000 Hold on a minute, the six feet distance was arbitrary.

00:17:45.000 Why were we doing that?

00:17:46.000 How can we ever trust them again?

00:17:48.000 Through legacy media, through various talk show hosts dancing around dressed as vaccines, through each demographic having their own musical number, whether you're gay or black or country, whatever it is you're into, they found a piece of propaganda for you.

00:18:00.000 It's the legacy media that creates that.

00:18:03.000 Have you found that to be true, for example, around January 6th or even 9-11 or many of the subjects you've spoken about quite boldly?

00:18:11.000 Okay, we're going to stop the conversation now, Vivek, because we are getting dangerously close to breaching the YouTube guidelines as downloaded from the WHO.

00:18:21.000 To see the answer for that question, click the link in the description.

00:18:25.000 Get over now to Rumble, where we don't speak hatefully, we speak freely, and I pray that we bring people together from across all cultural groups that we can unify, unite, And fight against establishment power.

00:18:37.000 See you there in a few seconds.

00:18:39.000 Is the countdown nearly done?

00:18:40.000 It's nearly done.

00:18:41.000 Okay, join us over there.

00:18:42.000 Remember, become an Awakened Wonder and you could have seen chats like that live and post questions to Vivek.

00:18:47.000 See you in a second.

00:18:50.000 You know, absolutely.

00:18:51.000 I mean, I think that my view is you shouldn't ban any modality or you shouldn't put negative pressure against any modality.

00:18:58.000 It's leave it up to the people to decide.

00:19:00.000 So there's two elements of this, though, Russell, is when Obama makes comments like that, what he's actually doing is it's not just tipping the scales towards some type of censorship regime, though it can go in that direction, too.

00:19:14.000 But it's planting the seeds of doubt in the mind of the electorate or the consumer of that information.

00:19:22.000 And it goes back to, I think this is one of the things I've learned in this campaign, is the problem we have in this country, I think in the modern West more broadly, There is a major top-down problem, no doubt about it.

00:19:32.000 But it's not just the top-down problem of the government working with private actors, each scratching each other's back, and it happens using tech companies to silence speech either directly or indirectly through the back door.

00:19:43.000 And it's not just silencing through suppression, silencing through shadow banning or otherwise, as a favor for the government, that the government then scratches their back with lighter regulation or vice versa.

00:19:52.000 That's what I call the top-down problem, the rise of this woke industrial complex in America, and where I've focused for much of the last several years.

00:19:59.000 And I remain focused.

00:20:01.000 But it's not just that.

00:20:02.000 I think equally pertinent is that other half of the problem where When we lose our own anchoring of what matters to us, right?

00:20:15.000 You could have different things fill in the blank.

00:20:17.000 Faith, patriotism, hard work, family, self-confidence, achievement, whatever it is.

00:20:25.000 The things that give us our own mooring and sense of self-confidence.

00:20:28.000 When we lose that, Then there's something about each of us inside that leaves this vacuum in our heart that causes us to look for legitimization externally.

00:20:41.000 And that's what causes us to want to bend the knee.

00:20:44.000 So if you don't pledge allegiance to the real flag, you're going to pledge allegiance to something else.

00:20:48.000 Maybe it'll be the transgender flag.

00:20:49.000 Maybe it'll be the Ukraine flag.

00:20:51.000 Maybe it'll be CNN.

00:20:52.000 Right.

00:20:53.000 And so I think that that is something where we, especially in the conservative movement, have not done a good enough job of really admitting to ourselves is that human beings are fallen and we have in our very nature a desire to believe in something bigger than ourselves that almost legitimizes ourselves and our own beliefs.

00:21:14.000 And there's something about the history of the way legacy media and the role it's occupied in culture that causes, it's not just the government's foisting of it that causes its continued existence, it's a kind of psychological insecurity in the general populace that says even in a world where people are able to access you through local or rumble, locals or rumble or whatever, That they still need what they view as the baseline arbiter of truth, against which you are the alternative, versus the other way around, which is to say that there's an even marketplace of ideas, and I truly am independent and able to consume and form my own opinions on my own merits.

00:21:54.000 And I think there's especially younger people, more of them are maybe heading in that direction, but that's a slow shift.

00:22:00.000 And so when Obama says something like that, it's about sowing the seeds of doubt in people who might have otherwise taken that step anyway, but to awaken in them that inner sheep.

00:22:10.000 within. And that's something I'm increasingly more so at the later phase of this, after having

00:22:15.000 finished the campaign, drawn to, than even I was in the very beginning is, it's not just a top-down

00:22:21.000 problem, it's a bottom-up cultural revival that we're going to need as well. And it's not just

00:22:26.000 going to happen through political leadership. It's going to happen through leaders in other

00:22:30.000 spheres of our lives, causing people to awaken their own independent selves as well, as opposed

00:22:35.000 to being a bunch of automatons doing what program to do on a given day.

00:22:39.000 That's what the country looks like to me on certain days.

00:22:42.000 And I think that that programming of our automaton mindset is equally part of the problem we're going to have to tackle in this country.

00:22:50.000 It's pretty clear that there would be anthropological reasons to align yourself with a group, or at least not nominate yourself as an outlier, that that exposes you to potential persecution.

00:23:04.000 And it seems important to make this distinction That even when people are sympathetic to the views of Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson or people enjoy the punditry and prose of Vivek Ramaswamy, it's by default by your reckoning being

00:23:24.000 Opposed to what they might hear from Carrie Jean-Pierre or Joe Biden as this is the establishment rhetoric, this is the alternative.

00:23:33.000 To establish a kind of levelling, that's a sort of a bold idea.

00:23:38.000 Often in this space, and it's something I'm sure you're familiar with now because you've mastered this space, certainly you've learned how to

00:23:46.000 utilize this space very successfully, the term controlled opposition, like it's something that I've

00:23:51.000 been accused of, that Alex Jones has been accused of, Tucker Carlson gets accused

00:23:55.000 of, these are controlled opposition.

00:23:57.000 And I started to think, well, in a sense, on the basis that you've just described, perhaps

00:24:02.000 People sometimes might think it's enough, because certainly I'm not in any complicit way getting told here, say this, say that.

00:24:09.000 Because, you know, my strongest, deepest, most vehement belief, Vivek, is that wherever possible, authority should be decentralised, that the sovereignty of the individual is paramount, that communities should be autonomous wherever possible, that we should Debate, discuss and vote on how our shared collective and individual resources are aggregated in order to create a sense of nation or state or city or whatever is, I would say, the smallest denomination is the most favourable.

00:24:38.000 You know, that's what I believe in myself.

00:24:40.000 And I know I don't have relationships with legacy media.

00:24:42.000 I know they see me as an enemy and they treat me like an enemy and they have treated me like an enemy.

00:24:48.000 But I still wonder if What is it that we're doing that allows people to think this is just a condiment, an alternative, before we comply?

00:24:59.000 I don't mean to get overly psychological here, but that's where we're going.

00:25:08.000 I think it's actually a projection.

00:25:12.000 I think for many of the people who might say that about you or Alex Jones or Tucker, I've heard my share of that as well.

00:25:18.000 It goes back to that element that resides within each of us.

00:25:22.000 And so there's an element inside each person who is even an anti-establishment viewer or consumer or voter or audience member.

00:25:29.000 Who still senses their gravitational pull to bend the knee to something, but I think that that guilt ends up showing up in the form of self-love.

00:25:38.000 Well, if that can happen to me, then you know what?

00:25:40.000 It's probably true of Russell Brand, you know, or whoever else that's speaking to me too.

00:25:44.000 Controlled opposition.

00:25:46.000 When in fact, I think that that's a little bit of a Often a projection of just what's part of each of our own human nature.

00:25:53.000 I think if we all admit that about ourselves, it's true of me, it's true of you, it's true of probably every other individual you mentioned too, that there's something if we just admit that about ourselves.

00:26:02.000 We're human beings, we're fallen, and so there's a part of us.

00:26:06.000 Now once you're conscious of it, that's your path to liberation.

00:26:09.000 But if you're conscious of it, that there's something inside me that makes me want to bend the knee to authority or to supplicate to something, no matter how independent I might think of myself as being, that even subconsciously there's some element of me that's going to comply with some sort of higher authority that I may not recognize, but I know that that's going to exist.

00:26:30.000 That consciousness, I think, is the liberation.

00:26:32.000 Now, what I see happening, it descends into sort of this tug-of-war-ism, is that many of those audience members may see the same thing in themselves, but then use that to sort of point the finger to you or, you know, whoever else, Tucker or Alex or whoever else they would say the same thing about, instead of actually all recognizing, it's true of all of us, great, now we're free, we understand that.

00:26:54.000 Now we can actually engage in honest discourse and recognize that amongst each other or amongst even within ourselves, what elements of our own bias may be as anti-establishment as we might be, still have some vestige of a bias that we didn't recognize.

00:27:07.000 And then say, hey, we're all open to that.

00:27:09.000 I think that's actually the place to go.

00:27:11.000 And then the other thing I would say in terms of what an alternative media institution looks like, and I've been given very recently a lot of thought to this as well, is right now, legacy media institutions are built In a central command and control kind of way.

00:27:26.000 If you look at most cable news operators, it almost doesn't matter who's on the air.

00:27:33.000 All that matters is they're part of a general machine and they're a mouthpiece.

00:27:36.000 Whereas the thing about independent media is the locus of trust is actually built at the level of the individual.

00:27:42.000 But there is no, by definition, one-stop shop or centralized place to go.

00:27:48.000 And so I wonder if there's some element of creating kind of an inside-out model where the business model is run such that the actual individual who's the locus of trust, people like yourself, etc, are uncapped upside in the amount of money they generate, etc, are completely unfiltered in terms of the content they can bring, but still has some sort of hub and spoke where there still is a hub just in terms of the level of organization of how it's set up.

00:28:19.000 That's what a long run competitor to the New York Times or CNN, I think it's got to look like.

00:28:25.000 In order to really eliminate the existing need that people still have to go to that centralized one-stop shop kind of place.

00:28:35.000 Does that make sense what I'm telling you here?

00:28:38.000 Yes, it does.

00:28:39.000 But there needs to be a facility.

00:28:42.000 I think that's what's going to happen.

00:28:44.000 And I think that that's a vacuum.

00:28:45.000 It doesn't quite exist in the marketplace today.

00:28:48.000 But based on what I saw as, you know, I would think of myself certainly as an anti-establishment candidate, That base need that consumers and audience members and voters have to still have their default against which you're the interesting alternative to say that, no, it's actually just one level playing field of equal.

00:29:06.000 Everyone's an alternative among equals of alternatives.

00:29:09.000 I think that in the media, you have to give people that sense that they're still having some blanket of permanence and Dare I say security?

00:29:21.000 It's just part of a human nature that people have.

00:29:24.000 But actually, the way that it's run is still completely, you know, 100% unfiltered.

00:29:29.000 The people who are making the money are actually the people who are looking the audience members in the eye.

00:29:33.000 But there's still just an established alternative to an existing centralized command and control operation.

00:29:40.000 I think that's where the equilibrium will ultimately settle.

00:29:43.000 And we're not there right now.

00:29:45.000 But without that, I think that there will always be Because of our human nature, that kind of trust deficit against which the alternative still is an alternative, rather than actually on an equal playing field relative to the status quo incumbents.

00:29:59.000 That was one of my learnings, at least in the campaign, is, you know, the debates.

00:30:03.000 I'll give you one example of this, Russell.

00:30:05.000 The presidential debates.

00:30:06.000 You saw most of them?

00:30:07.000 Of course.

00:30:08.000 Yeah.

00:30:09.000 So one thing I learned through the campaign is that the true audience of those presidential debates is not actually the viewership or the voter base.

00:30:19.000 It's the media filter that distills what happens on the debate stage.

00:30:23.000 Because here's just the arithmetic of it.

00:30:26.000 Of the 330 million people in the United States, a tiny, and I'm talking like very tiny, certainly by the third and fourth debates, which I thought were some of the best ones, certainly, you know, the ones where I had the most fun, but I think actually were some of the best ones.

00:30:39.000 We're talking like tiny, like 0.3% of the voting public.

00:30:44.000 ever saw even a portion of that debate in any actual form themselves.

00:30:50.000 But you're talking about hundreds of millions of people who read the media's distillation of what actually happened, you know, from the combination of the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, you know, you go straight down the list.

00:31:03.000 And then you actually look at the juxtaposition between what the people who distilled the media, the media distilled the debates, what did they say happened?

00:31:14.000 Versus actually seeing what actually happened.

00:31:18.000 And it might have been two completely different worlds.

00:31:21.000 You might as well have been living in two completely different worlds.

00:31:23.000 It might have been two alternative events.

00:31:26.000 A person who reads what happened and a person who watched it would recognize them as not even being descriptions of the same phenomenon.

00:31:32.000 But it doesn't matter.

00:31:34.000 Because the real audience was never the people in the first place.

00:31:37.000 That was just a charade to make you think that this thing called debate happened, when in fact most people's experience of the presidential debates came not from watching the presidential debates at all.

00:31:47.000 It came from reading the descriptions of what happened during the presidential debates, which means that if you figure that out and you realize that's your actual audience, it then shapes what you say on that stage.

00:31:57.000 And so it's an interesting game that you see firsthand that this idea that you were reaching the people directly at all was an illusion in the first place.

00:32:07.000 And the people who played that game well, or really, I think, professional politicians who understand who their audience actually is, versus the people on the internet or whatever that even saw clips of the debates, let alone actually the debate itself, understood that the reality of what happened was very different.

00:32:21.000 A lot of those were my supporter base, but it turns out that that is a tiny fraction of the overall viewership.

00:32:28.000 And so it creates this game, and until we've created an equal playing field where the people at home themselves, the people who said, I don't need to watch it, I can just read what the summary was the next day, that's most people.

00:32:41.000 And until those people view alternative sources of media consumption in the same way And with the same level of implicit trust that they have from legacy media institutions that they should have no basis trusting in the first place, we're not going to see major change, which is why I think alternative media needs to move one step further in leveling up the psychology of how it interfaces with the people who are actually consuming it, not as some alt-alternative, but as really just in an even playing field with the legacy media institutions in the first place.

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00:35:08.000 Okay, let's get back into our conversation with Vivek Ramaswamy.

00:35:15.000 Perhaps this point could be extrapolated further, Vivek, that we would naively on the surface assume that an orator or candidate is directly addressing a voting population.

00:35:28.000 But the experienced politician, perhaps even a figure like Joe Biden, knows that he's talking to the electoral college or some smaller democratic unit.

00:35:41.000 And it's clear that from the strategies of a politician like Biden, like against Trump round one, it's just keep this guy out the way, let the anti-Trump sentiment of our, inverted commas, natural audience abide, and he will reach the people that he is required to reach.

00:35:59.000 And perhaps there are a whole sort of modalities of donor, of legacy media, of corporate interest, that all interact and ultimately where we like sort of giddy and passionate and carnal assume oh wow look at this person's doing really well in the debate oh that was a zinger oh that point destroyed Nikki Haley oh this is funny man that that's just taking place that's might as well be sport and yes and it's interesting to know how these function because

00:36:27.000 I think that the fear of populism and the ongoing perjuring of the term or decimation and attacks of populism, the attempt to make populism itself a negative idea, is the terrible threat That there might be, because of the way the independent media is altering and radically evolving, the potential exists for individuals and movements to emerge where what happens is the power of the population is directly harnessed and bypasses all of those gatekeepers, all of those institutions.

00:37:05.000 And if you look at say the farming, like gosh this sounds quite tangential Vivek, but the farming movement It's not tangential.

00:37:12.000 It's not tangential at all.

00:37:13.000 No.

00:37:13.000 protesting in Germany, they're protesting in Holland and France.

00:37:16.000 It's not tangential at all. No.

00:37:18.000 It's, they're taking power unless they're not, they're not, they're not waiting and going to, you know,

00:37:24.000 whatever the national broadcaster is in France or Germany or to De Spiegel or

00:37:27.000 Figaro or, cause they're happening in Spain as well. And sort of saying, Oh,

00:37:30.000 do we have your permission? And would you support our campaign?

00:37:33.000 They're just doing it.

00:37:34.000 And then you have a figure like Tucker Carlson going to Russia to talk to Putin.

00:37:39.000 And obviously the threat is that if on X we have the opportunity to watch

00:37:44.000 Vladimir Putin and we hear Vladimir Putin say, stay out of Crimea,

00:37:49.000 allow some freedom of, uh, of cultural expression in the Donbass for the people that

00:37:55.000 affiliate with Russia and don't let Ukraine join NATO.

00:37:59.000 If we hear Putin say, you've got a deal, the war's over, then the American taxpayer, the

00:38:05.000 British taxpayer, all of us that are funding NATO might go, well, what is it that NATO's

00:38:09.000 done for me lately?

00:38:11.000 And start to question the entire damn narrative.

00:38:15.000 I mean, that's the threat of populism.

00:38:18.000 Even if you're right that there's some way to go before these monoliths of the New York

00:38:22.000 Times and the WHO and NATO, all of these powerful institutions are obviously in a death match

00:38:29.000 right now.

00:38:30.000 But, you know, the outliers are sometimes quite easily subsumed back into the system.

00:38:37.000 So what do you think about, I'd love to know what you think about, what is the real threat of Tucker interviewing Putin and what is the real power of the kind of activism we've seen in Canada with the truckers and across Europe with the farmers?

00:38:52.000 This is what the American Revolution was actually thought of.

00:38:55.000 Do we actually trust the people to self-govern?

00:38:59.000 The negative valence attached to the term populism that you talked about, what is that about, actually?

00:39:05.000 It's about, do you believe that the people can be trusted to self-govern?

00:39:10.000 That the elected should be responsive to the will of the people?

00:39:14.000 Or do you believe that they should be responsive to a different will, something other than the will of the people?

00:39:18.000 There's two things.

00:39:19.000 Either the will of the people, that's really what modern populism is about, giving the people what they want.

00:39:25.000 Or should you give somebody else what they want, other than whoever the populace is in the elected population?

00:39:31.000 That's what the American Revolution was really about.

00:39:32.000 I mean, in the American Revolution's terms, it was about the monarchy.

00:39:36.000 Who are a small, selected group of enlightened elites?

00:39:39.000 What do they think is right for the rest of society at large?

00:39:42.000 Do you want that or do you want what the people want themselves?

00:39:44.000 But here's the rub at the heart of this, Russell, is it's not even in their own minds nefarious, right?

00:39:51.000 This idea we're talking about on the debate stage.

00:39:53.000 Who do you view as your audience?

00:39:54.000 I viewed my audience as the electorate of the United States.

00:39:58.000 The people of this country, the 330 million American citizens.

00:40:03.000 But it turns out most of the trained professional politicians understand that that's a joke, because that doesn't matter.

00:40:08.000 The system is set up for a 0.01% of those people to be your audience, who are then the filters of deciding what the rest of the masses can and cannot hear or consume.

00:40:18.000 Here's the dirty little secret at the heart of this.

00:40:21.000 That 0.01%, they don't think that they're acting nefariously.

00:40:26.000 They don't view this as betraying the interests of the broader 330 million.

00:40:32.000 They view themselves as actually acting in the interest of the broader 330 million because the whole premise is that the people could not be trusted to self-govern in the first place.

00:40:42.000 So I think you've got to understand that it's not even in their own minds coming from a place of ill will.

00:40:47.000 It's coming from a place of benevolence, actually.

00:40:51.000 So bring that to the Tucker question.

00:40:53.000 What this relates to is the same thing as it relates to the origin of COVID-19 or the Nashville Transgender Shooter Manifesto or the truth of what happened on January 6th.

00:41:01.000 You can go straight down the list of every other truth that's been suppressed.

00:41:05.000 The people cannot be trusted to deal with the primary information.

00:41:10.000 It's up to us, for the good of the people.

00:41:12.000 This is the key part to understand, is the mindset.

00:41:15.000 It's for the good of the people, we have to make sure that the people are served up what they can actually handle.

00:41:21.000 It's like at the end of the movie, did you ever watch A Few Good Men?

00:41:23.000 Yeah.

00:41:25.000 Yeah, it's like Colonel Jessup at the end of the movie.

00:41:27.000 It's what he embodies.

00:41:29.000 You can't handle the truth.

00:41:31.000 In his mind, it wasn't that he was trying to do something that was ill-begotten for the American people.

00:41:38.000 He viewed himself as, and in some sense our country has been structured for a very long time as, him being a patriot.

00:41:44.000 This is a guy who makes the sacrifice that needs to be made, that bears that cross on his shoulder of knowing the actual truth but serving as the gatekeeper in the filter because you can't handle the truth.

00:41:56.000 That's the albatross, that's the cross that the true leader bears, is to say that I will bear the truth of the actual reality so that you can give the populace What they can otherwise handle, be it the truth of what's happening in Russia and Ukraine, the truth of what happened on January 6th, the truth of where COVID began early in the pandemic, which we knew and should have known, the truth of the Trump-Russia collusion hoax that never was, the truth about the Hunter Biden laptop story on the eve of the last election, the truth of what, you know, you could go straight down the list.

00:42:26.000 Bubba Wallace, you go straight down the list of the last 10 years.

00:42:29.000 I could probably rattle off 10 more instances of what you will call the noble lie.

00:42:35.000 I don't think it's a noble lie, but it's described as the noble lie.

00:42:39.000 This is ancient.

00:42:40.000 I mean, if you go back to Socrates, he would talk about, Plato would talk about the noble lie, that the people could not be trusted with the truth.

00:42:48.000 And the beauty of 1776 in the American Revolution is we said hell no to that vision.

00:42:52.000 That we said, for better or worse, and maybe sometimes it's for the worse, But for better or worse, we the people can be trusted to self-govern.

00:43:01.000 We the people demand the truth.

00:43:03.000 We the people demand free speech and open debate in an unfiltered way, which is the path to the truth.

00:43:08.000 And maybe sometimes in the short run we'll get it wrong and we'll do some stupid things.

00:43:12.000 But in the long run, we still believe that that is what is right and what is just for a free people to be able to self-govern.

00:43:20.000 That's really that age-old question that reared its head during the American Revolution, that in some sense even reared its head again 13 years later in the French Revolution.

00:43:29.000 Although that was, I think, a more complicated form.

00:43:31.000 Rears its head again every century or so, and it's rearing its head again now.

00:43:36.000 Can we, the people, be trusted to self-govern or not?

00:43:39.000 And I think that there are most in modern institutional life who believe that the answer to that question is no.

00:43:43.000 It's a crazy idea that you get to speak your mind freely as long as I get to in return.

00:43:48.000 That every one of us gets a voice and vote that counts equally in a democratic constitutional republic.

00:43:54.000 And the thing to realize about this, Russell, we gotta admit this, is people like you and I, we're the weird ones, actually.

00:43:59.000 Because for most of human history, it was done the other way.

00:44:02.000 I mean, if you look at the totality of all human history, not just Old World Europe before the American Revolution, but just all of human history.

00:44:08.000 I mean, go back to Plato, Socrates, etc.

00:44:11.000 The conventional wisdom amongst the wise for most of human history has been societies can't function this way if you trust individuals to be able to immediately have an institution or a government that's responsive exclusively to their interests.

00:44:26.000 The whims of people would cause themselves to be defeated, to be dead.

00:44:30.000 And that's what modern climate change's claim really is about.

00:44:32.000 If we leave this just to the people, we're going to burn the planet out of existence, and we won't have a planet left to inhabit.

00:44:37.000 So what a silly idea that would be to leave it to the people to self-govern versus a group of enlightened elites that have to save the very existence of the planet itself.

00:44:46.000 That's the modern climate change version of it.

00:44:48.000 But it's an age-old question that's always been played out this way.

00:44:51.000 But once we embrace that to say that, no, no, no, we're the weird ones, and in America, I say this, We're the weird ones on this side of 1776 in the new world, in the United States of America.

00:45:00.000 Yes, we are the departure from the rest of human history.

00:45:04.000 Once we embrace that, that's what makes America great.

00:45:07.000 That's what makes America itself.

00:45:10.000 That's where America, I think, can then be still that shining city on a hill, that last best hope for the rest of the free world that can use that as, you know, I say this with an American conceit, but I think it's true, as their last best hope of what's possible.

00:45:24.000 But when America itself, that shining city on a hill, no longer still shines, The rest of the free world then has no hope as well, and it's old world Europe all over again.

00:45:33.000 That's what the Great Reset, that's what the Davos World Economic Forum vision is all about.

00:45:38.000 It's not some modern, new, nefarious tendency.

00:45:42.000 I think what we have to actually view this as is, this is nothing more than a reversion to the norm, actually, for what's been the case of most of human history.

00:45:49.000 And once you see it that way, I think we're closer to being over the target, that actually it's not this new pernicious force threatening our way of life.

00:45:57.000 It's that our way of life is actually what's the modern post-1776 American way of life is what's threatened the historical equilibrium of power held by a group of enlightened elites that once we recognize that we realize we have to continue to fight for that existence.

00:46:13.000 If we don't, if we just assume that we passively inherit it, as my generation, I think, has, that's when you lose it.

00:46:20.000 And so anyway, that's, I think, what once you got to see what's going on, you get to the bottom of it.

00:46:24.000 That's how you actually preserve that rare exception that post-1776 America represented in human history.

00:46:30.000 I've got three more questions and they're all pretty good and we've only got you for one more minute.

00:46:35.000 Can I ask my three questions?

00:46:36.000 We'll go rapid fire.

00:46:37.000 Lighting fire.

00:46:38.000 They're pretty good.

00:46:39.000 Everyone in America, other than the native people, was an immigrant at some point.

00:46:43.000 Do you think that in order to morally legitimize the Rigid closure of American borders.

00:46:51.000 America has to withdraw from foreign wars to recognize that there's a connection between foreign wars and destabilized migrant populations.

00:47:00.000 And if it's not directly because of wars, it's sometimes other aspects of globalism and America having a punitive relationship with states.

00:47:07.000 For example, a significant number of people crossing the border will be from Venezuela and Ecuador.

00:47:12.000 So does the end of American interventionism abroad have to be a part of a rigid and closed borders policy?

00:47:16.000 So, does the end of American interventionism abroad have to be a part of a rigid and closed

00:47:25.000 borders policy?

00:47:26.000 What are your thoughts on that, Vivek?

00:47:27.000 I mean, these are two sides of the same coin.

00:47:29.000 It's a deep point you're touching on, Russell, but I'll make it much more simple and practical.

00:47:33.000 Rather than focusing on sealing somebody else's border using our military halfway around the world, let's focus on sealing our own border in this own country.

00:47:41.000 At a very pragmatic level, that's how I would say it, but there's a deeper philosophical connection here, too.

00:47:46.000 I was on a trip recently, you know, just for fun with family.

00:47:49.000 We met a guy.

00:47:50.000 He was an art dealer, okay?

00:47:53.000 What drew me into his shop was he had this beautiful rendition of the American flag, so my wife and I went and we had a conversation with him.

00:47:58.000 He was a Nicaraguan immigrant to the United States, but he had a wild story where he was actually, he came here to go to art school, get an education.

00:48:08.000 And then the US tried to recruit him, this is back in I want to say the early 80s, to play a role in the Contras in Nicaragua.

00:48:18.000 And he refused to do it.

00:48:19.000 But then he ended up getting in all kinds of getting all kinds of hot water in the United States.

00:48:24.000 And he would talk about his own friends in the U.S.

00:48:27.000 arguing, hey, with these Nicaraguan people, they're so violent.

00:48:30.000 What's going on?

00:48:31.000 What's going on with all that violence down there?

00:48:32.000 He's like, no, no, no.

00:48:34.000 I personally have been almost recruited by the national security establishment to play a role in the Contras in Central America.

00:48:40.000 And yet you wonder why these people are actually as violent as they are, as though there was no connection.

00:48:45.000 So that's actually the deeper point that you're making, is the more that you actually create—Ron Paul, I think, did a good job of making this point during his presidential run—is a lot of the problems you create at home come from actually the meddling in foreign affairs abroad that you wouldn't have created as a backlash against the United States had you not gone out of your way to create it.

00:49:02.000 But the simple terms I would put that in, to summarize it in a very simple way, is instead of worrying about using our military to seal somebody else's border somewhere halfway around the world, let's first actually start by using our own resources to seal our own border in this country and to restore the idea that I'm a citizen of this nation, not some nebulous, vague, global citizen fighting climate change somewhere, but that I'm a citizen of this nation, the United States of America.

00:49:25.000 And had I been elected president, That's certainly the vision I would have restored and, you know, in whatever way I can, I'm going to make sure, and I think Donald Trump is a great option, is the option, who's going to be the person who actually leads us in that direction in the next four years.

00:49:40.000 But I'm going to do whatever I can to restore that vision of national identity in the United States.

00:49:45.000 Is Nikki Haley a uniparty stooge, the preferred candidate of the establishment and the Democrats?

00:49:52.000 Is the Nikki Haley candidacy an attempt to retain control over both parties in the event that there is an election in 2024, if it goes ahead, in order to not have any candidate that is an inverted commas anti-establishment candidate?

00:50:09.000 Is that your position on Nikki Haley?

00:50:12.000 That is my view on Nikki Haley, yes.

00:50:14.000 I don't think that the establishment's going to be successful at it.

00:50:17.000 I think one of the great learnings for me is if you want to prevent something bad from happening as a problem, first name the problem.

00:50:26.000 And once you name the problem, it becomes a lot more difficult for the people who are propping it up.

00:50:30.000 And so I've been saying this for months at this point, Russell, even when it was very unpopular, even within our own conservative base and America First base.

00:50:37.000 Many people excoriated me for saying it, but I think it's the truth.

00:50:40.000 The entire system has been conspiring, I believe, indirectly to, you know, it's a game-theoretic conspiring, not a back-closed-door-cigar-smell-filled-room conspiring, but a game-theoretic conspiring.

00:50:52.000 Which is a repeated tacit game theory of narrowing this down to two candidates, Donald Trump and Nikki Haley, in one way or another, eliminate Trump from contention, and then trot their puppet who they can control into the White House.

00:51:06.000 Now, the more you've named that problem, the harder it becomes for them to pull that off.

00:51:12.000 And that's also part of why I dropped out when I did.

00:51:14.000 And through my support behind Donald Trump, I got about 8% in Iowa.

00:51:16.000 I was going to get the same or so in New Hampshire.

00:51:19.000 I wanted to be clear that Nikki Haley should not come anywhere within striking distance of being anywhere close to the presidency or any of the levers of power.

00:51:28.000 And so thankfully, I think after New Hampshire, this primary is indeed done.

00:51:32.000 And I think that it's now about Moving to the general election phase, where I think that establishment is now likely, I do think the Nikki Haley threat here is not completely eliminated until she officially drops out, but for all intents and purposes, I think it's off to the general election.

00:51:48.000 And you're going to see that same establishment now prop up another puppet who they can find within the Democratic Party itself.

00:51:54.000 I think they tried to do it within the Republican Party.

00:51:56.000 I think that has mostly failed, you know, all but the final steps of having failed.

00:52:02.000 to then turn to the Democratic Party as a vehicle to do what they couldn't do through the Republican Party.

00:52:06.000 But it's not Republican versus Democrat so much as an existing pervasive bipartisan uniparty establishment that I think has lost their use for Joe Biden as a puppet.

00:52:15.000 So I do think that once it's Crystal clear.

00:52:19.000 I think it's already basically clear.

00:52:20.000 But once it's crystal clear that Donald Trump is definitively the Republican nominee, they will turn to then finding a better puppet who they can use through the Democratic Party to advance their objectives than Joe Biden is able to do for them right now.

00:52:32.000 So you envisage Gavin Newsom, Michelle Obama, someone more capable emerging.

00:52:38.000 And do you feel that this is a question from Neo Grammarian in the chat?

00:52:42.000 Actually, our live members get to pose questions to our guests.

00:52:46.000 They ask, do you feel that there will be some concocted emergency used to cancel the elections in the event that Trump isn't incarcerated?

00:52:55.000 Do you envisage a free and fair election in 2024?

00:52:59.000 And if it is Trump, who do you imagine it will be Trump versus of those potential candidates?

00:53:05.000 So I think that Trump versus fill in the blank someone other than Biden is not crazy.

00:53:10.000 I think Trump versus Michelle Obama is not crazy.

00:53:13.000 I mean, you know, I've no base other than just watching and observing what I see publicly transpiring.

00:53:20.000 I think this system has decided they will stop at nothing to keep Donald Trump from returning to office.

00:53:25.000 And I think they tried to use Nikki Haley as their first stooge to do that within the Republican Party.

00:53:30.000 Thankfully, I think we managed to have staved that off.

00:53:33.000 I think they will then turn to the Democratic Party as a vehicle to do it, turn to the legal system, the extrajudicial system to do it.

00:53:40.000 So, I'm not God, you're not God, and so none of us can... I'm not in the business of...

00:53:46.000 Predicting, like, what exactly is one individual thing that's gonna happen.

00:53:50.000 I'm in the business of observing what the collective facts are, and incentives are, that are hiding in plain sight, and just connect those dots.

00:53:58.000 Make those observations.

00:53:59.000 The future, as we human beings perceive it, is what?

00:54:01.000 A distribution of probability.

00:54:02.000 Is a probability distribution of potential outcomes.

00:54:05.000 Okay?

00:54:06.000 But what we can do better, and this isn't conspiracy theorizing.

00:54:10.000 Conspiracy theorizing is assuming a bunch of people get together in some smoke-filled room, and are plotting out how to take over the universe.

00:54:16.000 I don't think that's how it works exactly.

00:54:18.000 I think the way it works is you have collective incentives.

00:54:21.000 that are hiding in plain sight, an amalgam of those incentives.

00:54:24.000 They're often difficult to see, but you have to connect those dots, and that makes the future possibilities that much more clear.

00:54:31.000 And so I think that's what led me to my view about what they were trying to do with Nikki Haley, name that problem, and then it becomes harder for them to act on those incentives.

00:54:38.000 I think the same thing goes for, okay, if it's not that, then they're gonna turn to the next thing and use the Democratic Party as a vehicle to do it.

00:54:44.000 And if they can't successfully do that, I think they will then turn to the next thing.

00:54:47.000 So I think that's what this year holds in store.

00:54:50.000 And our best way to prevent that from playing out is to name the problem.

00:54:56.000 Once you just unsparingly name it to be true, actually call out that otherwise Obtuse or obfuscated set of incentives that they were able to use to achieve an outcome.

00:55:09.000 Once you smoke that out, it becomes a lot harder for them to continue to act out and play out that same part.

00:55:16.000 And so that's that, I think, game of cat and mouse.

00:55:18.000 I think that's where it's important for folks like yourself, for independent voices, to be able to You know, connect those dots in a way that once you've named the problem, it becomes a lot harder for that problem to transpire.

00:55:29.000 And for my part, that's something that I will continue to do over the course of this year as well, is once you utter the words that should not be spoken, it becomes a lot harder for those unspoken words to then become the reality.

00:55:40.000 And so I think we have to be vigilant.

00:55:42.000 And so I'm not going to sit here saying, OK, this is exactly what's going to happen over the next nine months.

00:55:45.000 What's going to happen over the next nine months is in part a product of how vigilant we are to those possibilities.

00:55:51.000 And I think it is vital that Donald Trump is successfully elected as the next U.S.

00:55:55.000 president, lead the America First movement for the next four years.

00:55:59.000 But let's keep in mind, that's just the next four years.

00:56:01.000 We have another 250 years and then some still left if we do this right.

00:56:05.000 But it requires us to be vigilant, as our founding fathers would admonish us to do.

00:56:08.000 We can't just passively inherit this country that we call home.

00:56:12.000 To the contrary, what we enjoy, the freedoms we enjoy, that's the exception, as I said earlier, to most of human history.

00:56:18.000 That exception doesn't last automatically.

00:56:20.000 It's not something you just get to passively, lazily inherit.

00:56:24.000 You have to consistently fight for it.

00:56:26.000 Each generation does, and now it's up to us and the balls in our court to continue doing.

00:56:31.000 So I'm going to do my part, whatever I can from the outside.

00:56:34.000 Part of that is calling out each of these issues, which is no small part of it, but Ultimately, to see this through, we're going to have to shut down that deep state in Washington, D.C.

00:56:43.000 We're going to have to shut down those illicit relationships between that deep state, that managerial class in the three-letter government agencies and the private sector, from tech companies to media to banks to financial institutions.

00:56:54.000 I think we then create the space for that revival of individual self-confidence and purpose that makes sure that we no longer are sheepishly bending the knee to what we're force-fed.

00:57:05.000 I think all of those things are going to be required to revive this nation.

00:57:09.000 Vivek, thank you so much for your time, for your participation.

00:57:12.000 Well done in a great campaign.

00:57:13.000 Thank you for popularizing some important ideas and for coming from nowhere and generating so much intrigue and excitement.

00:57:21.000 And I wish you all the best in your ongoing political career.

00:57:24.000 I'm sure there's so many exciting things to come.

00:57:26.000 Thank you, Vivek.

00:57:28.000 Thank you.

00:57:28.000 Good seeing you, Matt.

00:57:30.000 Okay, well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Vivek.

00:57:32.000 If you are an awakened wonder, remember you can join us for these conversations live, as well as meditations.

00:57:37.000 One exclusive video a week, like this one.

00:57:39.000 Have a look at this again.

00:57:41.000 It's a wonderful thing to learn to be able to stand up and yell bullshit.

00:57:48.000 Because so much is being slung and nobody is talking about the primacy of experience and the dignity of the individual.

00:57:58.000 The dignity of the individual.

00:58:01.000 We went a long way with this in America before we betrayed it.

00:58:06.000 And it wasn't only betrayed by the clowns in Washington.

00:58:10.000 It's also betrayed by anybody who clusters themselves around the feet of some self-proclaimed nabob.

00:58:17.000 I don't know what nabob means, but I like the idea of the dignity of the individual, because say if you're a libertarian of the right, you believe in tradition, you're Christian, whatever, or you're a very progressive person that believes in non-binary, fluid forms of identity.

00:58:31.000 Terence McKenna is saying that should be respected, the sovereignty of the individual.

00:58:35.000 I hear that spoken of a lot, that within you as an individual is something that should be regarded.

00:58:39.000 That's why you don't tread on people, you push people around, you don't know what it's like to be them.

00:58:44.000 You allow people to be who they are and try and find ways of frucinpatico and consent.

00:58:50.000 Cooperating with one another, I suppose, like Sesame Street.

00:58:53.000 COOPERATION Every week we make content like that exclusively for you.

00:58:59.000 Become a member of our Awaken Wonder community.

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00:59:08.000 As you know, in addition to this fantastic conversation, we are also providing you a deeper, more thorough look at a news story from the week in our item.

00:59:16.000 Here's the news.

00:59:17.000 No, here's the effing news.

00:59:18.000 Stay with us.

00:59:32.000 So why is the left falling apart?

00:59:34.000 And why can't it utilize powerful advocates like Joe Rogan?

00:59:40.000 Now, Joe Rogan has just done the biggest deal in independent media history.

00:59:43.000 He's survived some of the biggest attacks that the legacy media have ever tried to impose upon an independent voice.

00:59:50.000 The n-word attacks, the horse-paced attacks, the, he shouldn't be allowed to have this audience, why are people listening to People are infuriated, but there it is.

01:00:02.000 The genie's out of the bottle.

01:00:03.000 It's no question now that Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan are the biggest voices in independent media and people are losing their trust and leaving legacy media resources in their droves.

01:00:13.000 They're losing viewers, they're losing power, they're losing advertising.

01:00:17.000 Could there be a connection between this decline of trust in the legacy media and the breakdown of neoliberal values, or what Joe Rogan referred to as the lunatic left?

01:00:25.000 I know Joe Rogan, I've been on that show a few times and I think he's a great person.

01:00:28.000 And I would say that he has what you'd call liberal values, like he just wants to sort of be left alone, doesn't care about people's identities or cultural choices, believes in democracy and representation and voting and all that kind of stuff.

01:00:40.000 So why is someone that the left could have grabbed and turned into a hero rejecting the left?

01:00:46.000 Is it because the left has gone kinda crazy, lost all its values and principles, and doesn't mean anything anymore?

01:00:52.000 Let's have a look at what he said in the framework of this being the most significant voice in independent media.

01:00:57.000 I used to be a part of the blue bubble.

01:00:59.000 I was 100% a left-leaning person who lived in Los Angeles.

01:01:04.000 I suppose I was as well.

01:01:05.000 I worked in Hollywood, worked in British media, and when I was part of that establishment, it seemed kind of ordinary and necessary that your values would be Democrat, or Labour, or Progressivism.

01:01:17.000 And for me, that was always based on kindness, that everyone has the right to express themselves how they want to.

01:01:23.000 And I kind of, I suppose, didn't notice how the rights of people that had traditional values, like, say, Christians, were always alloyed to power structures that were regarded negatively.

01:01:33.000 How the framing around pro-choice versus pro-life or pro-gun versus anti-gun were always skewed in the media in a very particular way.

01:01:41.000 And how one of the perspectives that we were never offered is decentralization.

01:01:44.000 Allow different communities to be run differently according to the principles and values of the people that inhabit that community.

01:01:50.000 That was oddly never discussed.

01:01:52.000 And now you have a left that's taken progressivism into some interesting areas which I frankly don't trust.

01:01:58.000 I don't think the left is all about looking after what they would call vulnerable communities.

01:02:02.000 I think the left is about censorship and centralised authoritarianism, corporatism and globalism.

01:02:07.000 That's what I think defines the left now.

01:02:09.000 And if you look at the great experiments of the left, Maoism, Stalinism.

01:02:14.000 Perhaps it was always this way.

01:02:16.000 Perhaps all of us massively understood that aside from a cultural blip in the 60s, where it's like, oh my god, hippies, Black Panthers, women's rights, and the uprisings of trade union movements, maybe the left has always been about authoritarianism.

01:02:29.000 I don't know.

01:02:30.000 Certainly Joe Rogan's rejecting it.

01:02:32.000 Over time, this is what we're seeing.

01:02:34.000 So over time, you and I, who used to be on the left, are now like, where's the left?

01:02:39.000 Where are you guys?

01:02:40.000 You guys are so far away!

01:02:42.000 I know a lot of people feel politically homeless, a lot of people that would say, I'm not a Republican, I don't think, or I'm not a conservative, or I'm not a right-wing person.

01:02:50.000 I mean, what are you if you say, I believe in free speech, I believe in communities being controlled by the people in them, I believe in leaving people alone, I believe in minimum government, I believe in opposing rampant corporatism and extremist capitalism, particularly as it's practiced on a global level, I believe in freedom to worship, freedom to identify, freedom to love, freedom!

01:03:09.000 I believe in freedom!

01:03:10.000 And I recognize that other people's version of freedom might be different from mine.

01:03:13.000 And if I leave you alone, you leave me alone.

01:03:15.000 Is that cool?

01:03:16.000 What's that now?

01:03:17.000 I can't even see you!

01:03:19.000 You're out of your mind!

01:03:20.000 Even if you look at the idea of Tucker Carlson's recent trip to Russia, it's the left that's saying, well, this is treason.

01:03:25.000 He shouldn't be allowed over there.

01:03:26.000 Russia are the baddies.

01:03:27.000 That's what the right would have said 20, 30 years ago.

01:03:29.000 He's a traitor against our nation.

01:03:31.000 These are the kind of tropes and ideas that were not of the left.

01:03:34.000 Authoritarianism.

01:03:35.000 Take the shot.

01:03:36.000 All of this emergent authoritarianism in the name of cultural progressivism Makes me feel that it was never about freedom.

01:03:43.000 That the left was never about freedom.

01:03:45.000 Certainly it doesn't seem to be about freedom now.

01:03:47.000 Why are you just accepting this?

01:03:50.000 It's a noble thing to blurt out.

01:03:52.000 So everybody goes, you're on the right team.

01:03:54.000 That's what it is.

01:03:55.000 Above all, the left used to be about supporting working people against the establishment, whether that establishment was the state or corporations, which were largely believed to have captured the state, which is still what I actually believe.

01:04:06.000 But there's no way that you could say that the left are the party of working, ordinary Americans, ordinary British people now.

01:04:12.000 It's elitist, it's progressive, it's exclusive, it's condemnatory, it's patronising, supercilious and haughty.

01:04:17.000 They clearly represent professional, educated, city-class people.

01:04:20.000 There's no doubt about it.

01:04:21.000 If you see someone in a white van flying the flag of their nation, the left hates those people.

01:04:25.000 Whatever you think about those issues, the fact that we can't talk about them is the biggest problem.

01:04:28.000 Shouldn't free speech and the ability to communicate be a shared value across all political spectrums?

01:04:31.000 Why are we defunding the f***ing police?

01:04:33.000 What are you doing?

01:04:34.000 Yeah, you can't say any of those things.

01:04:36.000 If you say any of those things, you're a Nazi.

01:04:38.000 Whatever you think about those issues, the fact that we can't talk about them is the biggest

01:04:41.000 Shouldn't free speech and the ability to communicate be a shared value across all political spectrums?

01:04:41.000 problem.

01:04:47.000 I would say the side that wants to shut down debate are not the goodies.

01:04:50.000 Whatever your view is, if you're like, I believe the opposite to Joe Rogan and everything.

01:04:54.000 Early release for criminals, compassion to people, belief in true reform.

01:04:58.000 Even if you absolutely believe in that, you should be willing to have a conversation about it.

01:05:02.000 We all should be willing to have a conversation.

01:05:04.000 Otherwise, what are we ultimately going to get?

01:05:06.000 We're going to get conflict and fracture and the breakdown of cultural values.

01:05:09.000 And I start to wonder if that is the name and the point of the experiment.

01:05:12.000 Austin people are great people. They're really nice. They're nice. They're not shitheads. They're not Hollywood people.

01:05:18.000 They're not lost in this fake world of leftist ideology that everybody's trapped in.

01:05:23.000 They're just people. They're just regular people, man.

01:05:26.000 I gotta say that when I first went to Florida and met all the people that I work with at Rumble and people that are

01:05:31.000 conservative, they're often Christian. They believe in traditional values and you can ask them outright, are you a

01:05:37.000 racist?

01:05:37.000 Do you believe that white people are superior to people of other colors? And if we go, no, I don't believe that,

01:05:44.000 Oh, you're a liar.

01:05:44.000 Well, what are you going to do?

01:05:45.000 You are a racist.

01:05:46.000 I mean, if people are being secretly racist, well, then if you're not going to trust anybody's views, what I found was speaking to conservative people is they don't care what I believe in.

01:05:55.000 They just want basically to be left alone.

01:05:57.000 I'm sure we could tear each other to shreds over the right to bear arms or pro-life, pro-choice values.

01:06:02.000 I'm sure I could argue with numerous people on numerous subjects.

01:06:05.000 But the fundamental principle of being able to freely and openly discuss our values, that shouldn't be up for negotiation.

01:06:11.000 Because that leads to hysteria when Tucker goes to Russia to speak to Putin.

01:06:15.000 It leads to censorship.

01:06:16.000 It leads to the legitimization of controlling social media spaces.

01:06:20.000 It leads to government interventionism.

01:06:22.000 It leads to being told things like war is the only route to peace.

01:06:25.000 It's leading to a kind of madness.

01:06:27.000 Even from a strategic perspective, if you can't get your movement together to get Joe Rogan on your side, you're a mess.

01:06:31.000 I was 100% I never voted Republican my whole life I was very left-leaning.

01:06:36.000 Even from a strategic perspective if you can't get your movement together to get

01:06:41.000 Joe Rogan on your side you're a mess. Like this is someone that could be going

01:06:44.000 out to bat for the Democrat Party. They could be going hello I'm Joe Rogan here's

01:06:49.000 Gavin Newsom on my podcast here's Joe Biden. Joe wake up Joe wake up! But we

01:06:53.000 don't like him he's a meathead he's an idiot. Oh my god who do you want to exclude next?

01:06:57.000 And as I've said to you before I think it's become an elitist authoritarian

01:07:02.000 organization that doesn't like working or blue-collar people.

01:07:06.000 That's been insidiously creeping in for a while, from Clinton and Blair in our country onwards, and that was enshrined in policy, in our country at least, and in yours.

01:07:15.000 You saw different kinds of financial deals and deregulation took place under Clinton.

01:07:19.000 Basically, ordinary people got abandoned, so the left had to justify that by saying, those people, we should abandon them.

01:07:24.000 And who we're looking after is vulnerable minority groups.

01:07:28.000 That's what it's done, in my view, in order to give itself a moral backbone, which it now lacks, because it has no raison d'être.

01:07:34.000 It has no purpose, because it's essentially the same as any party that goes, we're here to support the interests of big business and globalism.

01:07:40.000 There isn't anything else they're offering except for, oh yeah, we think these groups are getting a hard time.

01:07:45.000 And those groups historically have been getting a hard time.

01:07:47.000 But again, most people are willing to say, you do your thing, we'll do our thing.

01:07:52.000 That, along with an ongoing dialogue, is the only solution to this as far as I can see.

01:07:56.000 Especially with, like, any social issues.

01:07:58.000 When it comes to financial things, I'm a little bit more conservative, but at the end of the day, I'm way more left than I am right.

01:08:05.000 But California went nuts, man!

01:08:08.000 It's gone, like, full communist!

01:08:10.000 It's out of its f***ing mind!

01:08:12.000 And their approach to law enforcement is so insane!

01:08:16.000 It's so insane!

01:08:17.000 The no cash bail, the letting people out for committing violent crimes, the f***ing not

01:08:23.000 stopping people for stealing up to whatever money it is, what is it, $900 now?

01:08:28.000 I think they raised it.

01:08:29.000 I think they made it a little higher.

01:08:31.000 San Francisco is non-existent.

01:08:33.000 San Francisco, most of San Francisco is emptied out of like big chain stores and big department

01:08:39.000 stores.

01:08:40.000 I won't even do stand-up there anymore.

01:08:41.000 It's crazy.

01:08:42.000 It would be ruined.

01:08:43.000 Amazing and interesting.

01:08:44.000 And again, if someone who plainly speaks to so many ordinary Americans in the way that Joe Rogan does in an unprecedented way can't be reached, that is a barometer that should be paid attention to.

01:08:54.000 If you're part of the Democrat Party establishment, you should be like, that idiot, then you are unelectable.

01:08:59.000 I'm in the middle now.

01:09:01.000 I'm in the middle.

01:09:02.000 I'm in the middle.

01:09:03.000 I never thought I would ever say that.

01:09:05.000 Never.

01:09:06.000 It only happened in this last year.

01:09:07.000 Right.

01:09:08.000 Exactly.

01:09:08.000 I just went, I can't do it anymore.

01:09:12.000 People that you thought were aligned with you are now mad at you about sh**.

01:09:17.000 They're in a cult.

01:09:18.000 They're in a cult.

01:09:19.000 It's got all... I mean...

01:09:22.000 Mark Andreessen, who's a brilliant venture capitalist guy, explained it to me in very clear terms.

01:09:29.000 Like, what the definition of a cult is, how you can get excommunicated, how you get shamed for having differing opinions, the groupthink.

01:09:36.000 He's like, it's a cult.

01:09:37.000 And he's right.

01:09:38.000 He's 100% right.

01:09:40.000 It's just hard to say, because then people in the cult will attack you.

01:09:43.000 You get excommunicated.

01:09:44.000 You get treated like you're a Nazi.

01:09:47.000 When did this transition take place?

01:09:49.000 Perhaps the most identifiable and obvious point was during the pandemic when left and right bifurcated at a point when everyone could and was supposed to come together.

01:09:59.000 When the cult of wearing masks and taking medicines and posting on TikTok and shaming people and then acknowledging, wait a minute, Minority communities are particularly vaccine hesitant.

01:10:08.000 How do we move the pieces around on the board to facilitate that?

01:10:11.000 The point about a cult is an important one because that is where authoritarianism and the refusal to engage in discourse really take hold.

01:10:18.000 If your ideology is quaking, shaky, and not solid, then you don't want to engage in conversation because you know you don't have a robust ideology that can withstand discourse.

01:10:27.000 Ultimately, what's clearly necessary in this age of mass communication is decentralization.

01:10:32.000 Is the ability for communities to be governed differently according to the will of the people that occupy those territories, whether they're physical or online spaces.

01:10:40.000 The idea that you can now have a country split down the middle with one half oppressing the other half is ridiculous and laughable.

01:10:47.000 The pandemic period was when authoritarianism became normalized.

01:10:51.000 Initially, well, you have to stay indoors because you're protecting other people.

01:10:53.000 There's no evidence that it protects other people.

01:10:55.000 There's no evidence that social distancing works.

01:10:57.000 The whole argument fell apart and I think helped us to recognize that what neoliberalism in the form of this peculiar new form of leftism was masking was authoritarianism, a desire to control, a desire to signal virtue rather than practice principles and actual virtue.

01:11:15.000 And if the left can't house the biggest voice in independent media, a person who's plainly not a communist because he's just done a massive, massive media deal, who says he's never voted Republican in his life, who clearly speaks the blue-collar America in a way that's unprecedented, if you can't get in alignment with that voice, then your political movement, I would say, is on its way to expiring.

01:11:35.000 But that's just what I think.

01:11:36.000 Let me know what you think in the chat.

01:11:37.000 See you in a second.

01:11:38.000 Thank you for using Fox News.

01:11:40.000 Good game.

01:11:41.000 No.

01:11:41.000 Here's the fucking news.

01:11:43.000 Thank you very much for your support and comments.

01:11:46.000 Remember, become an Awaken Wonder over on Locals to, for example, see the full Tucker conversation.

01:11:52.000 Did you notice this moment in the chat with Tucker?

01:11:55.000 Most of the divisions being foisted upon us, all the race stuff, totally a con- it's, it's, it's an op.

01:12:00.000 Yeah.

01:12:01.000 Most people are not that inter- I mean, there are racial differences, but there are way more commonalities between races than differences, way more.

01:12:07.000 On the show next week, even more fantastic guests.

01:12:10.000 Andrew Bridgen, who's the MP that stood up to Parliament, will be joined by Meryl Nash in studio.

01:12:15.000 Then we've got Max Blumenthal coming on the show to talk about war, anti-war, and independent media versus legacy media.

01:12:23.000 And this Friday, ahead of Julian Assange's hearing, In London, where it will be discussed whether or not he's going to get extradited, we're talking to Stella Assange, his wife and leader of the campaign to liberate Julian Assange.

01:12:36.000 So, fantastic guests next week.

01:12:37.000 Remember, press the red button to get additional content, to be a part of this movement, to watch the Tucker Conversation, to join conversations with Vivek Ramaswamy when they happen.

01:12:47.000 And thank you so much.

01:12:48.000 You can join for a month, you can join for a year.

01:12:50.000 Thank you for your support.

01:12:51.000 We love you and... Oh, that didn't even hit me and I'm still feeling younger.

01:12:54.000 Join us next week, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - February 12, 2024

“Nikki Haley THREAT Isn’t Over!” | Vivek On Establishment’s 2024 BIG MONEY Agenda - Stay Free #304

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