In this final episode of the season finale of Stay Free With Russell Brand, Russell Brand sits down with the great philosopher Graham Hancock to discuss the possibility that we are living in a holographic reality, and that we should all be trying to learn how to goblekiteki. This episode is brought to you by Awakenings Wonders, a production of Gimlet Media. Stay Free with Russell Brand is a podcast by comedian and actor Russell Brand based in Los Angeles, California. Enjoy this live-streamed version of our final episode featuring Russell Brand and the rest of the Stay Free crew, and don't forget to subscribe to Stay Free on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and tell a friend about what you think of the show! You can also join our FB group: and use the hashtag on the socials to help spread the word about Stay Free! and in the comments section below! Thank you so much for listening and supporting Stay Free, and thank you for being a friend! Love ya, bye! Timestamps: 3:00 - Joe Biden's Turkey Pardoning Ceremony 4:30 - What's next? 5:15 - What are you waiting for? 6:20 - What is the point of the episode? 7:00- What do you want to know? 8:40 - What would you like to see in the future? 9:00 11: What is a hologram? 13:30- What are we're going to do? 15:00 + 16: Is there a new reality? 17:40- Is there an Atlantis? 16:00+ 17:30 + 17:00 | What do we need to learn from this? 18:20- What's your answer? 19:30 21:40 + 18:40 22: What's the only thing you're not a cave? 26:20 + 21:30+ 22: How to learn a better point of view? 25:00? 27: Is it a cave ? 28:00: What s a caveiteki? 29:00/16:00 / 27:00 & 27:30? 35:30 & 35:00) - How do I gobleblek?
00:01:40.000Every Thanksgiving a turkey is pardoned.
00:01:42.000We're going to be looking at Joe Biden's turkey pardoning ceremony and asking What is the origin of this ceremony?
00:01:48.000I mean, I know about, you know, the actual origins, but why is it going on in this manner?
00:01:52.000And why would Joe Biden feel the necessity to sniff upon that bird?
00:01:56.000Why would anybody want to do a thing like that?
00:01:58.000When I see him, I don't... I don't want to sniff him.
00:02:00.000That's not the way that I react in those situations.
00:02:02.000We're going to be talking about yay, we're going to be talking about the Emergent global world order, which I know that you guys are pretty keen to avoid, ain't ya?
00:02:10.000Particularly now the categories of left and right are melting away and there's a need for a new vitality and a new spirituality and a new priapic awakening.
00:02:17.000Look up the word priapic if you don't know what it means.
00:02:19.000And we are going to provide you with...
00:02:22.000Literally all of that in the next few seconds.
00:02:25.000Is this the equivalent of like a radio DJ just going like that?
00:02:40.000Or are you an event taking place in an apparently real spatial and temporal zone that could evaporate at any moment with your personal transcendence?
00:03:33.000I was in Uttar, and there was Graham Hancock there as well.
00:03:35.000And I don't know, and I don't want to make any cast dispersions, but it feels like people were doing psychedelics.
00:03:40.000I wasn't, because as you know, I am drug and alcohol free for nearly two decades now, if I get to December the 13th.
00:03:46.000Anyway, we're going to talk to Graham Hancock.
00:03:47.000I'm in particular, this is what I want to know about Graham Hancock.
00:03:50.000What is it in particular that we have to address if we were to discover that our received understanding of human history were erroneous?
00:03:58.000If we have to accept that perhaps there were an Atlantis, perhaps Plato was correct when he speculated about some hidden city underneath, I mean, this is a weird coincidence, the Atlantic.
00:04:09.000So it's good they called it Atlantis, I think.
00:04:11.000And also, because I was thinking about Plato the other day, I'm always thinking about him.
00:04:14.000His cave analogy, that we're looking at shadows on a wall.
00:04:17.000And some people dismiss platonic philosophy as like, you know, classical philosophy in general is a bit sort of, I don't know, old hat, old crap.
00:04:23.000But I feel like, actually, as we learn more about the limitations of the century world, that we are living in a holographic reality.
00:04:29.000And I know that Graham Hancock will be keen to... I'm glad you've made your main point today.
00:05:05.000Plato goes, look, what it's like is, imagine the reality if there were some people chained to a wall down a cave looking at shadows on a wall.
00:05:12.000They would think that that was all reality.
00:05:14.000But in effect, there are people that can see the flames.
00:05:16.000And even beyond that, there are people transcendent.
00:05:18.000Receiving an entirely different reality.
00:05:20.000Now, any allegory is obviously limited by the image system within which it operates.
00:05:25.000But as we learned yesterday, if you joined us in that green needle experiment, reality takes place in the kind of symbiosis between the apparently external sensory realm and the internal realm of the recipient.
00:06:45.000Let us know in the chat if we're right.
00:06:46.000Let us know in the comments in the chat.
00:06:47.000And if you're a member of the Stay Free AF community, get onto that little chat board.
00:06:51.000Tell us, how did this tradition begin?
00:06:52.000I reckon it began with Kennedy, but Reagan was the first person to talk about pardoning a bird, and it was something to do with the Iran contra stuff.
00:07:03.000People see me, they see the haircut, they see the charisma, they see the rather fancy jacket and they think this guy's not an investigative journalist such as we've previously understood him, but they've done me wrong baby, they've done me wrong.
00:07:21.000It runs in the family, because I believe the lad hunter is up for using the old nose.
00:07:27.000And if he gets a chance, God bless him.
00:07:29.000We've got a compilation of Byron's sniffs, if you'd like to see them.
00:07:32.000Bird is just the latest in a long line of creatures that have provided molecules for the Biden snout hole.
00:07:39.000Let's have a look at some other things Biden has sniffed and see what he's getting at and then I'll talk to you about sniffing in general and what does it mean.
00:08:42.000And what I certainly don't do is lean in and sniff the nape of its neck as if looking for some beautiful musk.
00:08:47.000Now, apparently, humans can make use of body odour subconsciously to identify whether a potential mate will pass on favourable traits to their offspring.
00:09:10.000For decades, scientists believed that humans were not very good at detecting and identifying odours, but a 2014 study shows that humans can distinguish at least a trillion odours, and in some cases, have more sensitive smells than animals.
00:10:12.000I've seen you post-Trompton shall we say.
00:10:16.000Well listen, I believe I'm a complex man.
00:10:19.000Anyway, you could, if you like, make the mistake of thinking we're being frivolous about sniffy old Joe, but the points that we want to make are quite important ones.
00:10:27.000During the time of this man's cognitive decline and evident deterioration, sniffing his way through reality, he's recently signed a 40 billion aid package for Ukraine, including 20 billion in military assistance.
00:10:37.000That's just one of the things, my research.
00:10:40.000That's just one of the things my research threw up.
00:10:42.000Also, recently, in spite of saying during the campaign that they were going to limit the amount of arms deals made with regimes abroad, particularly regimes regarded as dodgy, that's the official term they use, under Biden's administration, generally speaking, these deals have increased.
00:11:00.000Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon and General Dynamics have been involved in 58% of all the major offers made since the administration took office.
00:11:08.000So on one hand, He's lovely old Joe, pardoning a turkey, sniffing it on the way out the door.
00:11:14.000But on the other hand, is Biden the arms dealer?
00:11:17.000We're going to get further into that story.
00:11:18.000If you're with us on YouTube right now, join us over on Rumble.
00:11:21.000We've got Graham Hancock coming any minute now.
00:12:00.000If you like to follow the science, you can say the distance and difference between a conspiracy theory and a mainstream media news story is two years.
00:12:07.000Two years it went from, you can't mention that on Twitter, to we can mention it on CNN.
00:12:12.000But let's have a look at a bit more of Sniffy Old Joe.
00:12:17.000The combination of shoulder touch and sniff.
00:12:59.000From is the idea that any of the figures that occupy this system are going to provide meaningful solutions for you in your life.
00:13:05.000That's one of the things we're going to be talking to Graham Hancock about a little later, and the significance of alternative and potentially suppressed human narratives.
00:13:12.000But for now, let's look at a ghostly pal girl getting sniffed at by president.
00:15:49.000They've got a grapes badge on them down there.
00:15:52.000If you go to a nice restaurant, I don't know if you have the privilege of going to a nice restaurant, perhaps the cost of living crisis has annihilated you into a state of penury and that was part of the plan.
00:16:00.000You will own nothing and you will be happy.
00:16:01.000You remember when Klaus Schwab told you that?
00:16:03.000Well, if you own nothing and you're not happy, good news is you're halfway there.
00:16:06.000Now, at Sommelier, if someone works down the old restaurant, they wear a grapes badge and they do sniffing.
00:16:12.000The mistake Biden's making there, and I can tell you, on day one of Sommelier school, they're going to say, when you're sniffing at the old grape, don't crush your nose into the baby's back.
00:16:21.000I mean, they won't be dealing with a baby.
00:16:22.000Obviously, it's a glass of wine in that instance.
00:16:31.000Biden, if you're going to sniff, sniff proper.
00:16:37.000There you go, so we've learned something there.
00:16:38.000Just want to make clear, those weren't Abaddon's actual snare sounds.
00:16:40.000No, we added that for humorous effect.
00:16:42.000We are ultimately a comedy show revealing that beneath apparent reality there is a mischievous force beckoning you forward into new realms.
00:16:50.000You might experience it if you've taken DMT.
00:16:52.000There's another question I'm going to be asking...
00:17:09.000So we could talk about shrinkflation and turkeys, because obviously this is a point, like, that Biden's having some fun with these turkeys.
00:17:17.000Chocolate and chip, I think he's called them.
00:17:25.000Because, yeah, when he's pardoning the turkey... Now, the pardoning of the turkey amounts to a secular ritual.
00:17:30.000The sacrifice of the bird, of course, is supposed to mean a kind of coming together of the pilgrims, isn't it, and the Native American folk that was there before the colonising forces arrived.
00:17:41.000But now, this secularised version of the ritual is supposed to mean what?
00:17:45.000Compassion, awareness, I suppose as well it demonstrates presidential power and authority, something that would definitely be dying otherwise is going to be given a chance at survival.
00:17:54.000But because we've lost religious traditions and because we've lost all ideals except for our radical fundamentalist consumerism and commodification of all things, it's not that there is no belief, it's that there is one concealed belief, these rituals always seem a bit odd.
00:18:09.000But let's see how Joe Biden, a man who's always good off the cuff, certainly if he's wiping spilled soup off his chin, Let's see how he copes with this little situation.
00:18:26.000The thing that troubles me is knowing that there's a war on, that there are new tensions between the United States and China, that potentially there could be nuclear Armageddon, there's a cost of living crisis, not to mention a culture war, and we're watching the President right now going, how many turkeys have you got down there on the old turkey farm?
00:18:45.000This is a moment where you turn to your leader to hopefully kind of lead you well through these crises, through these wars, and it does seem a little odd that the time where he's I'm gonna spend, in front of people and on camera, he's talking about chocolate chip turkeys.
00:19:00.000I'm trying to think of the people we would need to save us right now.
00:19:27.000Everything is being turned into a kind of meaningless morass, so that the one imperative to commodify and consume can be relentlessly pursued.
00:19:35.000Remember when we were obsessed with Islamism and Islamic terrorism?
00:19:39.000We talked about fundamentalism, but their fundamentalism is no different from the fundamentalism under which you already live.
00:19:47.000If it can't be measured, if it can't be bought and sold, it doesn't have any meaning.
00:19:51.000Let me know in the chat and let me know in the comments if you think I'm spot-on and wearing a sexy jacket or if you think I'm way off track and a crackpot.
00:19:58.000Let's see what old Uncle Joe has to say about this turkey and I think he gets into some weird semi-genocidal borderline racist discourse here.
00:20:29.000I mean, does he mean Turkey as in... The country of Turkey?
00:20:34.000I think what he was trying to say is like look wouldn't you be able to if it was 50 years ago say like oh nine and a half million then you'd think of a country or a state that had a population of about that size and then you'd make a sort of a light playful joke about that.
00:20:48.000So it's a pejorative It's a pejorative condemnatory.
00:20:51.000Now, remember when Trump said, shit, old countries.
00:21:13.000As a vegan, the thing I dislike most about turkeys is the sort of snout sack.
00:21:21.000What's a shame is that Joe Biden and the turkey don't get involved in a sort of a mutual sniff-off where they could sniff each other at the beak area and then I'd like to see that little flailing skinlet go up his bugle.
00:22:18.000If you're going to pardon anything... Pardon Assange!
00:22:20.000Yeah, or Daniel Hale, who's been locked up for telling truths about drone strikes, killing 90% of the people that they are innocent people.
00:22:30.000The problem is, one of the problems I believe is that, and let me know what you think about this guys in the chat.
00:22:35.000Is that ritual and ceremony are supposed to be ways of physicalising and accessing that which is hard to instantiate materially, i.e.
00:22:44.000a ceremony is an allusion to the sacred, to that which is spiritual, i.e.
00:22:50.000But when ceremony and ritual becoming themselves meaningless, then everything is what is called phatic, performative, empty, hollow, a satz.
00:22:59.000We live in a, we're discussing, is it a nihilistic space or is there a deep concealed ideology, a deep concealed telos that is being pursued and my concern is that maybe there is a concealed telos.
00:23:13.000Well you've got to situate the reason I mentioned the shrinkflation.
00:23:42.000Because the point we'll make is that as energy costs have soared, energy companies have made record profits.
00:23:49.000And now we have just explained via the conduit of Gareth Roy just there, that similarly the cost of living crisis has afforded people in institutions in positions of power to garner new profits and also mask that profiteering with a convenient narrative.
00:24:05.000Yeah and rather than sit there and or stand there and make a Or even perch!
00:24:10.000A bad joke about chocolate and chip and however many million turkeys.
00:24:15.000You don't like the joke about chocolate and chip?
00:24:17.000The Democrats could be actually, you know... Doing something about it?
00:24:20.000They're not going to do anything about it, but do you think the Republicans would be any better?
00:24:23.000Let us know in a snap poll, for God's sake!
00:24:26.000Also, right, before we get Graham Hancock, I just want to have a look at this.
00:24:29.000Now, yesterday we showed you a little bit of Macron, Emmanuel Macron.
00:24:34.000President of France at the APEC summit talking about a unipolar world.
00:24:40.000Explicitly announcing that they want just one global power, not a bipolar world.
00:24:45.000Let's have a look at him saying that again and watch out because we're going to reveal something to you that's going to make your bones bend and your blood boil.
00:25:18.000Just because people are explicitly saying it and talking about digital ID and digital passports and One World Orders and global resets, you're a nutcase for believing in it.
00:25:27.000Anyway, the Apex Summit, you probably don't even know what that is, and I'm sure it's nothing nefarious.
00:25:31.000And if it were, you'd probably be able to tell from their logo.
00:25:33.000But actually, their logo, when you have a look at it, is a pretty cuddly, nice, straightforward... Wait a minute!
00:25:44.000I feel like I saw you, this little guy, rearing his head in the 1930s.
00:25:49.000Many of you right now in the chat will be telling us, of course, that it's a Hindu sign in its origin, but it also, as well as all of us appreciating it as a Hindu sign there, a Vedic symbol of good luck and good fortune, I feel like a plucky little fella, name of Adolf Hitler, made use of that symbol a little while back in his own attempt to create a unipolar world.
00:26:27.000Yeah, I don't know if I like that because I think it might be offensive to millions and millions of people who mercilessly and needlessly lost their lives for various power trips and because of a genocide.
00:26:39.000Okay, listen, let me know what you think about that, Swastika, and whether or not... I sometimes think that the unconscious is grassing them up.
00:26:47.000That stuff that they're unable to articulate because of their own sort of submerged agenda finds its way filtering through, percolating truth from the deep unconscious ulterior realm that we all have access to.
00:26:59.000And one man who's got more access to it than most is Graham Hancock.
00:27:03.000Hero, Egyptologist, man who set his camera at an interesting angle.
00:27:28.000I've not seen it yet because the crown's on and I had to get through the heritage porn.
00:27:34.000But the next thing is Ancient Apocalypse, because I've been a fan of yours since I was 16 years old.
00:27:38.000Are you happy with how the show is being received?
00:27:40.000And does this, to you, Is this a kind of a watershed where you're entering into the mainstream and does it seem a triumph after years of being denounced, decried and slandered?
00:27:52.000I don't think I'm entering into the mainstream.
00:28:32.000I enjoy the way that you invite imagination into the room, the way that you use your spirituality, the way that you don't codify archaeology to the point where it only becomes accessible To elites, I think you do such fantastic work.
00:28:46.000But it sounds to me that you seem a little disheartened.
00:28:49.000Is it simply that you need a cuddle, or is there something more nefarious at play?
00:29:00.000I suppose the disheartening thing is the reaction of archaeologists to this whole story.
00:29:10.000See, from my point of view, Let's call it mainstream archaeology like mainstream media.
00:29:16.000Mainstream archaeology is the story that it tells us, the narrative that it presents about the human past, is the dominant narrative in our society today.
00:29:28.000We almost take it in with our mother's milk.
00:29:31.000Everything that we're taught in school is based upon it.
00:29:35.000Everything that we're taught in university is based upon it.
00:29:39.000All I'm trying to do really is to provide some counterbalance to that dominant narrative.
00:29:45.000And so there are a lot of complaints that I don't include a lot of archaeologists criticizing my story in the series.
00:29:55.000But I think that's unnecessary because they are the dominant narrative.
00:29:59.000And this is just a small attempt to provide an alternative narrative, to say there are some anomalies in prehistory which are not explained by the mainstream.
00:30:10.000Which don't fit into the picture they paint.
00:30:13.000And to say what I think those suggest to me.
00:30:17.000I do detest being called a pseudo-scientist and a pseudo-archaeologist because I'm not an archaeologist or a scientist.
00:30:27.000And I make that very clear in the series.
00:33:41.000And I'll add to this, because often I'm a fan of your content and I watch it a lot, and when you talk about gobleki-teki, and I'm not saying it right, or like many other significant monolithic sites, like They're not as good as, I don't know, the Shard or the Empire State Building.
00:34:03.000One, what changes about our presumptions around civilisation, progressivism and our presumed telos that humankind now is the best that it's ever been?
00:34:11.000What changes if we consider submerged narratives?
00:34:14.000And also, what is it in particular that is so impressive about some of the monolithic structures that you celebrate?
00:34:22.000Well, first of all, because of the way history is taught, because of the narrative of history that the mainstream push in every direction and that we take in with our education system, we are really taught that we are the apex and the pinnacle of the human story.
00:34:43.000That there were cavemen, and then there were hunter-gatherers, and then there were the civilizations.
00:34:48.000And it's all been a steady straight line evolutionary so-called progress up to us today.
00:34:54.000And I think that makes us feel very self-satisfied, very contented and unnecessarily secure about the future of our own civilization.
00:35:05.000What I hope raising questions about the possibility of a lost civilization will do is first of all Encourage people to be curious about the past, not just to accept what the so-called experts tell them.
00:35:21.000And secondly, to realize that maybe we're not the apex and the pinnacle of the human story.
00:35:26.000Maybe there's been many rises and falls.
00:35:28.000As to what's so special about these big megalithic monuments, what's special about them is when you get down to the detail, when you find Very precise astronomical alignments involved in the monuments, when you find a really detailed, long-term study of the sky embedded in the monuments.
00:35:51.000They're stones that tell a story, and they tell a story of the people behind them, who were people who paid attention to the cosmos and focused on it very, very closely.
00:36:00.000So, for example, we're taught that the phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes was discovered by the Greeks about 2,000 200 years ago or so.
00:36:10.000Yet another massive achievement of the past attributed to the Greeks.
00:36:14.000But there's a huge amount of evidence, and I won't bore your listeners with going into too much detail here.
00:36:20.000There's a huge amount of evidence that the procession of the equinoxes was noticed, documented, and thoroughly analyzed way back in the last Ice Age.
00:36:30.000Right back to Gobekli Tepe, as a matter of fact, and Pillar 43 in Enclosure D at Gobekli Tepe, and the diagram of the skies that it represents there.
00:36:41.000So the point is that we're taught that only the Greeks were capable of discovering this, and they did it, but that our ancestors before the Greeks couldn't do it, and it's not considered that the Greeks were the recipients of an ancient heritage.
00:36:56.000And this is odd, because the Greeks themselves were perfectly open about that.
00:37:00.000They said really that they got all their knowledge from ancient Egypt and yet we're sort of fascinated with attributing so many cultural advances to the Greeks.
00:37:11.000I'm not talking about a lost civilization that built space rockets or had cell phones or drove motor cars or made plastic.
00:37:20.000What I am talking about is the underestimation of our ancestors and the possibility of a forgotten episode which is an episode that was way ahead of its time according to the conventional narrative.
00:37:33.000I'm challenging the conventional narrative.
00:37:35.000I'm presenting facts and information which are not explained by that narrative.
00:37:40.000And I hope that this will, first of all, encourage people to take a real curious interest in the past rather than simply accept what they've been told.
00:37:50.000And secondly, that it might cause us to reconsider our own apex predator role.
00:37:56.000It seems that sometimes you allude to, even in your answer then, to the notion that perhaps we could access information in means not covered by rational materialism and the enhancement of the senses through various instruments of magnification.
00:38:18.000that if you could have astronomical knowledge without the telescope or even the ability to track patterns, you know, accurately over centuries, that either there could be contact with a more advanced species or access to information and knowledge without going via material examination and experimentation.
00:40:06.000But there's a huge amount of evidence for reincarnation and for people having past lives and perhaps future lives as well.
00:40:13.000And I just think this needs to be taken into account rather than sneeringly dismissed by the mainstream.
00:40:19.000And again, because the mainstream narrative is so dominant, when I talk about this, all I'm trying to do is restore some balance to the debate.
00:40:26.000And it's interesting when I talk and actually, I mean, in my books, I talk about telepathy and telekinesis in a very minor way.
00:40:35.000I mean, you're talking about a page or two across hundreds or even thousands of pages.
00:40:40.000But when mainstream scientists attack my work, they cherry pick that and say, oh, Hancock believes in telepathy.
00:40:47.000And by the way, he takes drugs as well.
00:40:53.000So this is a way that's used to simply and lazily, in an incredibly idle way, just dismiss me.
00:41:02.000I think the experiences in altered states of consciousness, that dimethyltryptamine, DMT, which is the active ingredient of ayahuasca, ayahuasca itself, psilocybin, mushrooms, I think these experiences in altered states of consciousness are very important for people to have.
00:41:18.000These substances are non-addictive and they open up a vision of the universe which is very different from the one that we're taught in school.
00:41:28.000And I don't think anybody should leave this life.
00:41:44.000What I hear, it sounds like a noisy Meaningless conversation in a bar.
00:41:50.000But the change in perspective that the psychedelics bring I think is very important.
00:41:57.000And that's why at last mainstream science is catching up with this.
00:42:01.000And we are recognizing that psychedelics can be healing medicines.
00:42:05.000That they can bring healing to people with post-traumatic stress disorder.
00:42:08.000That they can bring healing to people who fear death.
00:42:11.000Because suddenly the new perspective that arises is death is nothing to fear.
00:42:16.000It's just the next stage in our adventure.
00:42:18.000It's just the next part of our journey.
00:42:23.000People who are deeply depressed and locked in a very narrow frame and just can't escape from it.
00:42:30.000Psychedelics will often break them out of that frame, especially if done in a supervised way with People around who know what they're doing and who know what they're talking about.
00:42:41.000So I think these are important medicines.
00:42:43.000I have to brace myself every time I take ayahuasca.
00:42:51.000And then the next bit of the hard work is, okay, you learn stuff about yourself.
00:42:55.000These medicines will thrust your baggage at you in a very forceful and very dramatic way.
00:43:01.000They'll show you the hurt and the pain that you've caused during the course of your life.
00:43:06.000They will give you the opportunity to adjust that.
00:43:08.000Yes, you can't go back and fix past mistakes, but you don't have to repeat them in the future.
00:43:12.000Often we just don't see our own mistakes because we're so rushed and living through daily life.
00:43:18.000But psychedelics will offer the opportunity to see our own mistakes.
00:43:21.000So all in all, I think these are very valuable for getting a different perspective on our own lives and on the world we live in.
00:43:30.000In the field of philosophy and linguistics, even within what we're terming mainstream academia, there has been a kind of reckoning in the form of post-structuralism, and in particular in the work of Foucault, to address even the subject of history from a different perspective.
00:43:50.000But there appear to be certain fields where there hasn't been a similar reckoning.
00:43:57.000I wonder Graham, because in both of these areas that we've touched upon, archaeology and psychedelics or spiritual medicines, it appears that it's in a sense an opportunity to reframe what it is to be human is being offered through our subjective experience, which can potentially be altered and is not as static as we might assume it to be.
00:44:20.000And in terms of archaeology, this sort of shared collective experience of our kind may not be what we've assumed it to be.
00:44:28.000So it seems that in both these disciplines what we're ultimately dealing with is power and dominion and an unwillingness to alter the framing because an adaptation of that framing may mean compromises in the realm of power and what we might consider it is to be a human being.
00:44:48.000Power is definitely involved in this, if I may come in at that point, because the plain fact of the matter is that the discipline of archaeology claims total power over the human past.
00:45:00.000I've been looking at some of the Twitter threads about my series that archaeologists have been posting, and they're saying, don't watch this, give it a double thumbs down, don't allow Netflix to make another season with this guy.
00:45:15.000appear to regard themselves as the sole arbiters of the human past.
00:45:19.000And they seem to despise the general public and don't feel that the general public can make up their mind that my views are somehow so dangerous that the general public will be polluted and might lose faith in the mainstream archaeological narrative.
00:45:49.000But wherever power becomes dominant and claims monopoly and asks people not to listen and to shut up and pay no attention, I think that needs to be challenged.
00:45:58.000I don't like to think of vindictive archaeologists except for perhaps the one in Raiders of the Lost Ark that was kept trying to ruin Indiana Jones's day and trying to nick that beautiful ark that Indiana Jones had found by borrowing it from the people that were looking after it up until that point.
00:46:13.000Archaeologists are always attacking each other.
00:46:27.000What I object to is the idle laziness of archaeology.
00:46:31.000So the main dismissals of the ideas that I put forward have been so-called woke dismissals.
00:46:39.000That Hancock is, I don't know how this comes about because race is not mentioned in my TV series at all, but Hancock is promoting racism and white supremacy.
00:46:47.000You'll find dozens of stories like that emanating from archaeologists in reaction to this show.
00:46:54.000And that, again, just seems to me to be incredibly lazy.
00:47:41.000You better show me a bloody pyramid that lines up with some constellation or I'm switching back on to Graham.
00:47:48.000I'll take the risks that him and his mixed-race family are white supremacists for a bit of juicy archaeology.
00:47:54.000Graham, I want you to hit us with the undeniables.
00:47:57.000Like, say we're in an argument now with one of these old fuddy I don't know.
00:48:00.000gatekeeper archaeologists. What are the most like, you know, our top five? Explain that, you bastard,
00:48:07.000bits of archaeology. Like, you know, I know there's that underwater road, I know there's... hold on,
00:48:12.000I'm gonna say it correctly. Gobekli Teke. Shit, I said it wrong. Gobleki Teke. I know there's Gobleki Teke.
00:48:18.000Gobleki Teke. I'd say, if I had one of them... If I get one of them archaeologists, I'd grip him by his tweed jacket,
00:48:24.000him or her or they, I'd grip him by their tweed jacket and I'd say, take me to Gobleki Teke now,
00:48:31.000Gobekli Tepe is a problem, and it is something that needs to be brought into the argument, precisely because until Gobekli Tepe was excavated and studied, it was the dominant mainstream view that there could be no such thing as megalithic architecture before 6,000 years ago.
00:48:50.000Because you needed a settled civilization with agriculture generating services and allowing experts to emerge, architects, engineers, and so on, to have a big megalithic site with precise astronomical alignments being put up.
00:49:07.000But Gobekli Tepe is 7,000 years older than Stonehenge, and it seems to come out of nowhere, and it's really problematic.
00:49:14.000And then we find that the people around Gobekli Tepe were entirely hunter-gatherers.
00:49:19.000When they began to build this site, and in the thousand years that the site was used, they transformed from being hunter-gatherers into agriculturalists.
00:49:28.000And what I suggest is that rather than suggesting that a group of hunter-gatherers simply woke up one morning magically equipped to create the largest megalithic site on earth 7,000 years before Stonehenge, That we're a species with amnesia, and that there's a forgotten episode in the human story, and that what we're looking at is a transfer of technology from the survivors of a civilization that got destroyed in the cataclysm that we know occurred at the end of the last Ice Age.
00:49:58.000Other points I think are very important.
00:50:17.000There's a fantastic book by Giorgio de Santidiana and Hertha von Deschen.
00:50:21.000They were both professors of the history of science.
00:50:23.000Giorgio was professor of history of science at MIT, Hertha von Deschen at the University of Frankfurt, called Hamlet's Mill.
00:50:30.000And this book investigates ancient knowledge of precession.
00:50:33.000And it's completely ignored by archaeologists, even though it is It does emanate from mainstream scientists themselves.
00:50:41.000So the knowledge of this rather obscure and difficult to observe astronomical phenomenon, encoded in myths and traditions, going back into the deepest past, I think that's another one that archaeology is failing to get to grips with.
00:50:53.000Ancient maps that show the world as it looked the last ice age and that have rather precise relative longitudes incorporated in them.
00:51:06.000In every case, these maps were drawn in the 15th, 16th, 17th centuries, but the mapmakers tell us that they based them on older source maps, which have now lost.
00:51:16.000Why, for example, does Antarctica appear on many of these old maps when our civilization
00:51:21.000didn't discover Antarctica until around 1820?
00:51:25.000And it's shown just a bit larger than it is today, as it was during the last ice age.
00:51:29.000The relative longitudes in these maps is important because longitude is a problem that our civilization
00:51:35.000didn't crack until the mid-18th century.
00:51:38.000So I think these are important issues as well.
00:51:41.000And then I agree with you that big stones in themselves don't say much, but when you
00:51:45.000go to a place like Sacsayhuaman in Cusco in Peru, and you see the incredible way that
00:51:53.000these massive blocks of stone are interlocked together like a kind of jigsaw puzzle.
00:51:59.000It really defies imagination as to how this was done.
00:52:03.000And I cannot accept that it was just a couple of guys grinding away at the stones and making them all fit together in that way.
00:52:10.000I don't think it's fully explained by the mainstream at all.
00:52:16.000So there have been a series of cataclysmic events that have caused us to lose not only civilization and a different type of technology, a different type of perception, but our awareness even of ourselves.
00:52:31.000And I suppose there's this piety and presumptuousness that accompanies not only your arch enemies over there in archaeology, that every time we talk about you get so riled up, Graham, There's also this condescending and colonial, somewhat imperialist attitude towards folk knowledge and myth, precisely because it is, quote, unscientific, and there is the assumption that because it can't be verified, because it can't be experimented, because it can't be measured, that there's no value.
00:53:00.000Folk knowledge is a depository of so much, I would say, sort of archetypal information that sort of suggests there is a shared oral history that somehow resonates and remains in spite of the various... That can't be true in relation to flood myths and myths of a global cataclysm, which are truly universal.
00:53:39.000It's the beginning of an epoch called the Younger Dryas.
00:53:43.000Now, there's still a lot of argument about why that cataclysm happened.
00:53:47.000I happen to have a view I share with a number of credentialed scientists that the Comet Research Group, 100 scientists, have suggested that the Earth ran into the debris stream of a disintegrating comet and that that's what caused this extraordinary global cataclysm to occur.
00:54:04.000There are other explanations that are offered as well, but what I think nobody can really disagree on is that the event called the Younger Triumphs, which unfolded between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago was indeed a global cataclysm, a sudden plunge in global temperatures, a huge rise in sea level, the complete extinction of the megafauna of the Ice Age,
00:54:25.000Evidence that human population went through a bottleneck at that point.
00:54:29.000There was a global cataclysm and we can't, we really are not smart to try and present a narrative about our story that doesn't take cataclysmic events into account, particularly when they're recent.
00:54:40.000I mean, who gives a fuck about the dinosaurs 67 or 66 million years ago, but 12,800 years ago, that's in our time.
00:54:49.000That's in the human time frame, and it was a big cataclysm, and nobody disputes that.
00:54:54.000No geologist would say, oh, the Younger Dryas was just a minor event.
00:54:59.000We can argue about what caused it, but the nature of it is there, and it's there right at the beginning.
00:55:04.000The Younger Dryas ends 11,600 years ago, massive rise in sea levels, global temperatures shoot up, and then suddenly, weirdly, civilization emerges.
00:55:13.000I think it was a reboot of civilization, automatic invention of civilization.
00:55:20.000That's why I think we've lost a big part of our story.
00:55:24.000And I may not be right, but I hope that people will consider that possibility and explore it.
00:55:31.000Even in the period of your acclaim, there have been shifts in the narrative around the population of North America and when that occurred.
00:55:40.000We're sort of seeing gradually some, and as I suppose this is true in all disciplines, If you have an orthodoxy, the orthodoxy is conservative and tradition-oriented, and it takes radical outsiders to change that framing, and often those outsiders will be dismissed, discouraged, smeared and undermined.
00:56:03.000But as well as your work itself, which I have always found fascinating, before other people did, before other people thought it was cool, I also think that the spirit of it is important.
00:56:14.000The area that interests me primarily currently, Graham, is the way that we appear to be dominated by a narrow set of ideals.
00:56:23.000We have very limited political choice.
00:56:25.000The state and corporations are in global harmony, preventing individual free will.
00:56:30.000Meanwhile, the media turns people against one another continually on the basis of cultural identity.
00:56:36.000And I feel that without a kind of the birth of a new ideology, something that can liberate and unify us simultaneously, where we can begin to again accept that people are different from one another, that humans may live in many different ways.
00:56:50.000And I consider the idea that humanity has been around longer.
00:56:53.000That there have been different iterations of civilisation.
00:56:56.000That life is abundant and present elsewhere in the cosmos.
00:56:59.000That we can radically alter civilisation.
00:57:03.000I consider that to be as important as anything else.
00:57:05.000We live in a dry-drab time with dry-drab, numb, dumb ideas continually dominating our contemporary narratives.
00:57:11.000And this sort of dearth of imagination contributes to that, that we're not able to explore our own psyche.
00:57:16.000We're not able to explore our own culture.
00:57:18.000And some things excite me when I hear you, like, you know, why not do more exploration
00:57:54.000If I go to the pyramids, how do I not just have some boring tourist experience?
00:57:58.000How do I get right in there and be allowed to do stuff that's interesting and, like, Well, it's very difficult.
00:58:05.000I myself was banned from filming in Egypt for my series because a senior Egyptologist who advises the Egyptian government told them not to let Hancock in.
00:58:18.000Back in the old days, for me, the early 90s, late 80s, when I was first exploring the pyramids, it was a much freer place.
00:58:25.000I climbed the Great Pyramid five times, three times illegally.
00:58:31.000And it was possible to do that, but today it's not possible.
00:58:37.000It's very difficult to get an alternative narrative when you go to Egypt.
00:58:41.000I do know a number of people who are in the sort of guiding field in Egypt who are offering an alternative narrative, but by and large it's the mainstream narrative that's given.
00:58:53.000Often you'll find the Great Pyramid closed.
00:58:55.000You'll certainly not be able to climb it.
00:58:57.000Do what you can, use your mind, use your imagination, look at these things, try and figure out how they were made and what they all amount to, and then pay attention to ancient Egyptian civilization itself, a civilization that put its best minds to work for 3,000 years on the mystery of what happens to us after death.
00:59:15.000This was a deep inquiry that the ancient Egyptians went into, and I think we have to have enormous respect for them, and we have to also have respect for what they said about their past.
00:59:25.000That their past goes back much further than the beginnings of historical Egypt to a time that they called Zep Tepi, the first time.
00:59:31.000And there are a lot of astronomical reasons why we can pin that down to the Younger Dryas period.
00:59:37.000It seems with the false markers of technology and medicine, in particular in areas of communication, we can see evident and observable progress and therefore mistakenly believe that progress has been unilateral, that we are continuing to improve and that we are, as you describe it, apex predators astride all history, but potentially there are unexplored lineages, neurological and historical, archaeological and botanical, areas of reality as yet Unrealised.
01:00:08.000We're regressing, Russell, not progressing.
01:00:11.000This civilisation is on a downward path.
01:00:32.000The ethic that you were talking about earlier, that our sole purpose on this planet is to produce and consume, that we define ourselves by our possessions.
01:00:42.000What a limited picture of the human creature this is, and how our majestic potential is just being narrowed down into a very limited place.
01:01:17.000It will be the people who know how to survive, which the vast majority of people in our so-called advanced civilization haven't got a clue about, because we're all dependent on other people's expertise in order to survive.
01:01:29.000I think we're a very fragile civilization.
01:01:31.000The hatred and fear and suspicion that's being deliberately manipulated in the world today, and this one-sided focus on production and consumption It's a very bad path, Trev.
01:01:43.000We need to explore radical new alternatives.
01:01:46.000We can no longer settle for the dominant and dominator narratives, either politically or historically.
01:01:53.000Graham, I always enjoy talking to you.
01:01:54.000You give me so much cause for optimism, both in your work, but also in your incredible spirit.
01:01:59.000When might I see you again, flesh to flesh?
01:02:04.000Well, right now I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
01:02:07.000And we're going to spend Thanksgiving with my son and daughter-in-law and our two grandchildren here in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
01:02:14.000And then we'll be back in England, my wife Santa and I, on the 3rd of December.
01:02:20.000It would be lovely to see you again, Russell.
01:02:22.000I will be here and I'll ask the producer to connect us, as a matter of fact, because I would like to see you over Christmas.
01:02:28.000Perhaps we'll wander around some monolithic sites and I'll say that they're not jazzy enough and there's not good enough masonry and you'll explain That they're aligned with constellations beyond the reach of our kind.
01:05:51.000Thanks for supporting us on our first season on Stay Free with Russell Brand.
01:05:55.000Thanks for supporting that, we've really enjoyed having you.
01:05:57.000Let me know who you want to see on, and if you're a member of the Stay Free AF community, oh look at that lovely montage, we're going to do another 15 minutes taking your questions.
01:06:05.000Otherwise, we will see you next season, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.