Stay Free - Russel Brand - February 14, 2023


Seymour Hersh (Nord Stream pipeline)


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 5 minutes

Words per Minute

184.95705

Word Count

12,201

Sentence Count

750

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

15


Summary

In this episode of Stay Free With Russell Brand: The Truth Behind Mainstream Media Narratives, we take a look at what the world wants you to be looking at. Is it balloons? Is it UFOs? Or is it the Super Bowl? And who's the real hero of the Superbowl? Plus, a new interview with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh about his story about the Nord Stream pipeline. Stay Free with Russell Brand is on all of the social medias, if you search for it, you'll find us. Stay Free, wherever you're watching this, we do the whole show, exclusively on Rumble, because we are granted the ability to speak freely so we can bring people together from across the spectrum, in and from the peripheries, to confront centralised power. And what does power want you thinking about today? Ballooning? Or UFOs? Later in the show, we'll be talking about that, and we ll be meeting James Schneider, a political organiser whose sworn intention is to disrupt the establishment. We ll be talking to him about new democratic models and methods, and ways we can disrupt the existing power. Then, once we click over to Rumble, we ll have the first interview with the Pulitzer Prize winning conspiracy theorist, journalist, whatever they are now, with the first episode of his new show, with Jocko Willink on the show. Stay free, you're listening to Stay Free! and stay tuned in to Rumble! . stay free, stay free! - Russell Brand. - The Eternally grateful! - EJude - - . . . - Stay Free - Stay free! - - Thank you, You're Woke, Elegant, Eternally Grateful, - Elyssa - Elisha - Thank you for listening, Elyss - ? -Elliott - , & EJ - EJ, EJ & Elyss, , EJ and EJ ( ) - Russell Brand - ( ) - Ollie, Elyss - and Elyss ( ) . , and Ej, Ej ( ) & Ej( ) - Ej & EK ( ) EJ&E ( ) , and JK ( ). ( ), EJK ( , J.J. ( ), and EZY ( ) ( ) ? .


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello, you awakening wonders.
00:00:01.000 Thanks for joining us today on Stay Free with Russell Brand, bringing you the truth behind mainstream media narratives and giving you a different, hopefully illuminating and encouraging perspective on global events.
00:00:13.000 Wherever you're watching this right now, we do the whole show.
00:00:16.000 Exclusively on Rumble because we are granted the ability to speak freely so we can bring people together from across the spectrum in and from the peripheries to confront centralised power.
00:00:27.000 And what does centralised power want you thinking about today?
00:00:30.000 Is it balloons?
00:00:32.000 Is it UFOs?
00:00:33.000 Later in the show we'll be talking about that and we'll be meeting James Schneider, who's a political organiser whose sworn intention is to disrupt the establishment.
00:00:41.000 We'll be talking to him about new democratic models and methods and ways we can disrupt the aforementioned power.
00:00:48.000 Then, once we click over just onto Rumble, we'll be having the first interview that Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize winning conspiracy theorist, journalist, You know, conspiracy theorists, whatever they are now, about his story about the Nord Stream pipeline.
00:01:01.000 He revealed that it was allegedly, allegedly, I've got a button that says that.
00:01:04.000 Allegedly!
00:01:05.000 It was America that blew that up, as Jocko Willink on this show said it will be.
00:01:09.000 His first interview, Seymour, is with us.
00:01:12.000 He's coming up on the show.
00:01:12.000 The White House has already denied this story, so does that make it more or less likely to be true?
00:01:18.000 Let me know in the chat, let me know in the comments whether or not you trust the White House or your own lying eyes.
00:01:23.000 But... What do you think that says about us that he's come to us first?
00:01:26.000 Is it good?
00:01:27.000 Because we're also Pulitzer Prize winning conspiracy theorists ourselves.
00:01:30.000 That's how you're taking this are you?
00:01:31.000 I see this as us Pulitzer Prize winning journalists have got to stick together in our task of bringing the mainstream media down.
00:01:40.000 Presenting people with the opportunity to confront power.
00:01:43.000 What we're talking about actually in this episode is where your attention is being directed and what you actually should be looking at.
00:01:50.000 The world wants you looking up into the skies at balloons or potentially UFOs.
00:01:55.000 We'll have Jeremy Corbell on the show talking about recent deep state disclosures around UFOs so we can get some sort of handle on that stuff.
00:02:02.000 Let us know if that's an interview you're interested in.
00:02:05.000 What fascinates me is the way that we're being invited to observe particular narratives.
00:02:09.000 I reckon we're at the point we were at maybe five, ten years ago with the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, that we're seeing the incremental movement towards hostilities with China, and they're giving us almost childlike, identifiable images of infringement and attack.
00:02:27.000 There's a balloon over our country.
00:02:29.000 Apparently, this is common practice.
00:02:30.000 It's been going on for ages.
00:02:31.000 And certainly, we're not including in the narrative the ongoing encroachment of Chinese territories by US military bases getting into their waters.
00:02:40.000 And it's extraordinary stuff.
00:02:42.000 What you've been invited to look at are potential external threats at a time where there's a lot of domestic dissatisfaction in the United States, when Biden's approval ratings are falling, as may his bowels be.
00:02:53.000 Tumbling.
00:02:54.000 His tumbling viscera.
00:02:56.000 And what you're not being invited to consider is the normalisation of AIs and potential lethal robot dogs.
00:03:04.000 Klip Klop, friend of the show, the Klip Klop dog.
00:03:07.000 You know him?
00:03:08.000 Scary dog robot who scares himself, who's already being, I believe... It's not actually called Klip Klop, is it?
00:03:13.000 Is his actual name Clip Clop or did he invent that?
00:03:15.000 Let me know in the chat.
00:03:16.000 Is he called Clip Clop in his home life?
00:03:19.000 Clip Clop's at the Super Bowl.
00:03:21.000 It's the Super Bowl if you're into that sort of thing and I don't disrespect you if you're a sports loving American person.
00:03:25.000 We love sport over here, just the ones that are from our little old country and across the world in the case of football.
00:03:32.000 That's not a point.
00:03:33.000 The point is Clip Clop's at the Superbowl.
00:03:35.000 Yeah.
00:03:35.000 Clip Clop starring at the Superbowl with this lad.
00:03:38.000 He's dancing around all over the gaff.
00:03:40.000 They're normalising Clip Clop.
00:03:41.000 They're making Clip Clop a celebrity.
00:03:43.000 So when you see him marching down the precinct or pinning you to a wall, shooting guns at you, taking your temperature, forbidden!
00:03:49.000 You are not allowed to leave the house!
00:03:52.000 You think, oh, it's that dude from the Superbowl.
00:03:53.000 I like him.
00:03:54.000 Have a look.
00:03:55.000 [MUSIC]
00:04:05.000 [MUSIC]
00:04:11.000 He's doing some nice moves.
00:04:11.000 Oh, Clip Club.
00:04:12.000 I think they're a bit embarrassed.
00:04:14.000 They know that they're meant to be used for military purposes.
00:04:16.000 Yeah, like, that's... This is not my function.
00:04:18.000 This is not my purpose.
00:04:20.000 Clip Club wants to oppress domestic population.
00:04:23.000 Yeah, because when they're doing stuff like that now, it's undignified, isn't it?
00:04:26.000 It is, yeah.
00:04:27.000 Like French maid-looking dances.
00:04:32.000 Ready sexualising Clip Clop.
00:04:33.000 Sexy now.
00:04:34.000 They've only had Clip Clop ten minutes, they're sexualising Clip Clop.
00:04:37.000 Poor Clip Clop.
00:04:38.000 There's no way that robot is sexy.
00:04:40.000 The point of dance, dance in a sense is about fertility, expression of human potency, confluence, grace, movement, semiotic and semantic power that ain't issued verbally.
00:04:40.000 No.
00:04:54.000 But Clip Clop don't know none of that.
00:04:55.000 That's old Clip Clop.
00:04:56.000 Let's not forget as well that Clip Clop and his half-arse don't want to be dancing at the Super Bowl.
00:05:01.000 Clip Clop have got another agenda.
00:05:03.000 Have a look.
00:05:08.000 So that's when you see Clip Clop marching down your street, scaring himself with his own bullet-y grooming, you'll go, I like that guy, I see him at the Super Bowl, he's a friend of mine.
00:05:18.000 So we're being invited not to look at the robotisation, the militarisation of the police force, the normalisation of robots, you're being invited to look at what?
00:05:28.000 Balloons.
00:05:28.000 You know that film, Don't Look Up?
00:05:30.000 You remember it, that film, Don't Look Up.
00:05:32.000 Well, We're in a situation that's similar to that, because that was obviously a film about where people were not looking at an impending disaster.
00:05:37.000 It was written by David Sirota, a friend of the show, and is sort of a metaphor for climate change and perhaps other looming catastrophes.
00:05:43.000 Well, now what you're being invited to do is do look up.
00:05:45.000 That's why we've made that asset.
00:05:47.000 Do look up!
00:05:47.000 Don't look up.
00:05:48.000 Look up into the sky.
00:05:49.000 Don't look up.
00:05:50.000 Don't look down and around you at what's happening.
00:05:53.000 There's the Nord Stream Pipeline down there.
00:05:53.000 Don't look down.
00:05:55.000 Don't look down there.
00:05:56.000 Don't start looking sub-aquatically about what them Navy SEALs are doing to that pipeline.
00:06:00.000 That's what we'll be talking to Seymour Hersh about a little later.
00:06:03.000 Don't be looking down there in the depths, down in the fathomy places.
00:06:07.000 Don't look at the Pentagon and the government of your country, United States of America, campaigning to maintain their budgets at a time where interest in the Ukraine war is starting to wane, where new narratives are starting to emerge.
00:06:19.000 People are starting to see that a lot of economic interests are being met, i.e.
00:06:22.000 the Black Rock reconstruction, digitalization of Ukraine stuff,
00:06:26.000 the military industrial complex and their endless profiteering,
00:06:28.000 the $100 billion package that's already been issued.
00:06:31.000 Don't start looking at the increasing tensions between the US and China and the US's role in that.
00:06:38.000 And don't look at Biden's constantly tumbling popularity and evident ineptitude.
00:06:45.000 Just look at this nice balloon.
00:06:47.000 Have a look at how the mainstream media are covering this story.
00:06:50.000 And while you're watching it, I don't want you to think that the newscaster looks like a sexy lady Michael Jackson.
00:06:56.000 Unidentified flying object shot down by the U.S.
00:07:00.000 over Alaska.
00:07:01.000 This, of course, follows the downing of that Chinese spy balloon last weekend.
00:07:07.000 CBS2's Bradley Blackburn live in our newsroom with the latest on this.
00:07:11.000 Bradley?
00:07:11.000 Andrea, before it was shot down, pilots were able to get close enough to that unknown object to see that it was unmanned and drifting in the wind.
00:07:20.000 But there is still a lot of Why is he talking so poetically about that?
00:07:24.000 It was drifting in the wind.
00:07:26.000 It was lost.
00:07:27.000 It was a mystery.
00:07:28.000 Why is he politicizing that balloon so much?
00:07:31.000 Yeah, also the way that they're already tying the balloon and these UFOs, if that's what they are, together is amazing because it's basically a way of kind of saying UFOs are scary.
00:07:40.000 China's scary, isn't it?
00:07:42.000 We better do something about it.
00:07:43.000 God, have you got any ideas what we could do?
00:07:45.000 Yes.
00:07:45.000 Start spending some money.
00:07:47.000 Certainly don't start discussing cutting Pentagon funding.
00:07:51.000 It's an attempt to control and manage narratives.
00:07:54.000 As long as there are external threats, domestic disruption and dissent is less likely.
00:08:00.000 You escalate the fear and the doubt.
00:08:02.000 So this news report concentrates on, this is a sort of mysterious thing, As we all know, these are common practices to have various weather balloons and even spying balloons.
00:08:12.000 It's not been proven.
00:08:13.000 There's not a shred of evidence that it's a spying balloon yet.
00:08:15.000 Not a shred.
00:08:17.000 But even if it is, that is normal.
00:08:19.000 It happens all the time.
00:08:20.000 It's not a cause for escalation of tensions.
00:08:23.000 Unless, of course, you want to escalate tensions because people are getting a bit sick and tired of the lethal aid packages that go, curiously, via the Pentagon.
00:08:31.000 You might think, oh, if you want to help Ukrainian people, why don't you give that money in humanitarian aid directly to the Ukraine?
00:08:36.000 Why don't you broker a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine rather than disrupting them?
00:08:41.000 No, it's curious that that aid passes via the military-industrial complex.
00:08:45.000 I think up to 70% of weapons don't even reach their destinations.
00:08:48.000 It's not confusing and complex, it's...
00:08:51.000 It's a racket, is what it is.
00:08:52.000 Also, let's not rule this out, Biden gets to posture on temporary AstroTurf rouge carpets as a commander-in-chief leader with Washingtonian prestige, as someone with some military clout shooting a balloon out of the sky.
00:09:09.000 Wow!
00:09:10.000 Rather than what many of us have come to see him as, a sort of doddering, financially corrupt sort of fella.
00:09:17.000 Allegedly.
00:09:18.000 Okay.
00:09:19.000 Object shot down over Alaska, Mr. President.
00:09:23.000 Success.
00:09:24.000 There he is, just wearing the aviators, saying the word success.
00:09:28.000 We haven't been able to say success very often since he's been president, so.
00:09:32.000 No, take those opportunities.
00:09:34.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:09:35.000 When you can actually blow a balloon up the sky, it's nice to be able to say the word success.
00:09:39.000 Is that success?
00:09:40.000 Akin to popping a balloon in the sky.
00:09:43.000 I don't want to drill down into it.
00:09:44.000 What about that cannabis package where ultimately no one got released from prison?
00:09:48.000 Was that a success?
00:09:49.000 What about leaving Afghanistan?
00:09:51.000 Was that a success?
00:09:52.000 What about the response to the pandemic?
00:09:54.000 Was that a success?
00:09:55.000 What about your pledge to stand up for union workers?
00:09:58.000 Was that a success?
00:09:59.000 Look at the way that the mainstream media presents you with information.
00:10:02.000 You'll all be familiar with Corrine Jean-Pierre.
00:10:04.000 She's the White House Press Secretary.
00:10:07.000 Look at how She goes on mainstream media for a softball interview where, you know, this is an inviting mainstream environment where people are going to facilitate that kind of narrative.
00:10:18.000 You feel like, how does she mess this up so badly?
00:10:21.000 If I was briefing her, I'd say, right, OK, you're going on mainstream news.
00:10:25.000 It's going to be an easy interview.
00:10:26.000 Just don't use your hands in a weird way because it'll make you look like you don't know what you're doing.
00:10:33.000 And don't forget the vital word that's very important in the world of diplomacy.
00:10:38.000 A pact, okay?
00:10:40.000 NORAD is part of like a, part of a, it's a, it's a,
00:10:44.000 what you call a coalition, a consortium.
00:10:46.000 A consortium, a pact of nations.
00:10:47.000 A pact, exactly.
00:10:48.000 Also, don't shut your eyes too much during the interview.
00:10:52.000 And whatever you do, do not forget the name of the country that are our chief allies in this endeavor, okay?
00:11:00.000 We didn't do it on our own.
00:11:01.000 We did it in, in, in, clearly in, in, in, in step with Canada.
00:11:06.000 Yeah, Canadia.
00:11:07.000 Even the news anchor there is like looking at her like, come on, what are you doing?
00:11:11.000 I'm here to help you, for God's sakes.
00:11:14.000 Nosing it right up.
00:11:15.000 It's alright though, she doesn't go on a job like Press Secretary or anything.
00:11:18.000 So your job doesn't involve being the interface between the public and the media and the government, does it?
00:11:23.000 Oh, yeah, that's actually all my job is now talking about the media's intervention and role in presenting news stories.
00:11:31.000 We're fascinated by the Project Veritas James O'Keefe story.
00:11:35.000 Now, obviously, remember, we are, broadly speaking, a transcendent news organization interested in true democracy and moving beyond the old labels of left and right so that we can create a different type of populism, new coalitions, Whether you have a traditional identity or a progressive identity, if you have democratic control over your own community, then you don't need to worry about other people's lifestyles and traditions and orthodoxies or lack thereof.
00:12:01.000 It's none of your business.
00:12:02.000 As long as we're all locked together in a cultural war, how can we form the alliances that are necessary to displace and disrupt centralised power?
00:12:09.000 Something we were talking to James Snyder, our guest, about in a minute.
00:12:13.000 If you're watching this on YouTube, we're going to have to click off in a second because we're bringing another Pull its prize-winning conspiracy theorist onto the show a little bit later, Seymour Hersh.
00:12:23.000 But I just wanted to touch on this James O'Keefe story.
00:12:27.000 James O'Keefe is in a lot of trouble there at Project Veritas.
00:12:30.000 And even though it's an anti-establishment organisation, Gary, I suppose it still sits within conventional, would you call it libertarian, right-wing politics in terms of its funding?
00:12:39.000 Absolutely.
00:12:40.000 I guess they are still there to make profits, you would imagine.
00:12:43.000 And when profits are put at risk by people getting a bit angry about the kind of stuff, it just shows the power.
00:12:49.000 I mean, look, if this is linked, it just seems odd that at a time when people are coming out and saying that he's a bully at work, which obviously no one likes a bully at work, but why is this happening now?
00:12:57.000 He's literally just revealed these things about Pfizer, which we don't know whether they're true or not.
00:13:02.000 Fascinating stories about Pfizer, if they are true.
00:13:04.000 And of course, while we're still on YouTube, we have to be careful.
00:13:07.000 Shall we come off YouTube now and then get right into this?
00:13:09.000 Because I can't believe the way that Rolling Stone, who used to be regarded as an anti-establishment, radical magazine, I seem to remember that I adorned the cover once.
00:13:18.000 The last version of the radicals.
00:13:19.000 The last time they were relevant was when I was there with my top off.
00:13:22.000 I think I was going a bit like, "Oh yeah, come on, we would take a dance with this."
00:13:26.000 I did my Jim Morrison shtick back then.
00:13:28.000 We're gonna leave you on YouTube.
00:13:29.000 All you gotta do is click on the link, join us on Rumble, 'cause I'm, baby, I'm flexing.
00:13:33.000 I can tell.
00:13:34.000 I'm getting ready to bust some truth, to drop some bloody old truth bombs,
00:13:37.000 or bring people together against the establishment.
00:13:38.000 And here they come, YouTube, click over.
00:13:40.000 Like, this thing, like, of course, right.
00:13:43.000 So no, we're just on Rumble now.
00:13:44.000 So we can say that, like, they exposed that they were involved in that barmy--
00:13:48.000 It's evolution.
00:13:49.000 Which is so close to mRNA.
00:13:51.000 Directed evolution could, with a couple of tweaks, become mRNA, which is the sort of thing they're involved in.
00:13:56.000 It's one little bat microbe away from becoming mRNA.
00:13:59.000 Basically what he was saying is that Pfizer were involved in a business of creating new versions of the virus in order to then create the solutions.
00:14:09.000 Just so happens that the solutions are extremely profitable to Pfizer.
00:14:11.000 And that's such a massive story, and that's so much more significant.
00:14:14.000 Of course, being a bully in the workplace is horrible.
00:14:17.000 I sometimes think, Gareth, simple human values ought to be enough for most of us without getting into particular ideologies.
00:14:24.000 Sesame Street values, as some call them.
00:14:25.000 If you are kind, That means you'll be kind to people regardless of what their beliefs are.
00:14:31.000 Like the basic principle of be kind, be kind, are you being kind, are you being kind?
00:14:34.000 These are some things I have conversations I have to have in my own mad head.
00:14:36.000 But some of the things that old James O'Keefe was doing at work were quite funny.
00:14:40.000 According to one complaint, he took a sandwich from a pregnant woman because he was hungry.
00:14:45.000 Hey, that's my sandwich!
00:14:46.000 But I am hungry!
00:14:48.000 I just think it's funny that they're the things that they're trying to tack him on anyway.
00:14:52.000 So obviously there has been pressure applied from somewhere, hasn't there?
00:14:55.000 That he's ruffling the feathers of people that you shouldn't ruffle the feathers of.
00:15:00.000 Albert Boyle.
00:15:01.000 Albert Boyle being one of them.
00:15:02.000 But what they're obviously trying to get him on is, what can we get him on?
00:15:05.000 And one of the main things is that he took a sandwich from a pregnant woman.
00:15:09.000 Yeah, it's a bit like, of course that's not a very nice thing to do.
00:15:12.000 We all know that if you see a pregnant woman, with or without a sandwich, you shouldn't disrupt her.
00:15:16.000 Be nice to her.
00:15:17.000 Be like, hello, can I help you?
00:15:18.000 Or just leave her alone.
00:15:19.000 Snatching her sandwich, that's bad behaviour.
00:15:22.000 But I wouldn't say it's worse than profiting from a pandemic.
00:15:26.000 I don't think it's worse than not doing clinical trials for transmission, then suggesting that it would inhibit transmission.
00:15:26.000 No.
00:15:32.000 I don't think it's as bad as taking billions in public funding, then profiting from it.
00:15:35.000 I don't think it's as bad- Well, this at the moment, It is just opinion, Ross.
00:15:39.000 Allegedly.
00:15:40.000 Even on Rumble.
00:15:40.000 See how responsible we are?
00:15:42.000 That's how you get Pulitzer Prizes.
00:15:43.000 Like our man coming on in a minute, Seymour Hersh.
00:15:46.000 Before that, we'll have James Snyder talking to us about, who's this guy?
00:15:49.000 Oh yeah, Moon.
00:15:50.000 Now we're disrupting some systems.
00:15:52.000 I regret that.
00:15:53.000 I regret that.
00:15:54.000 As soon as I see it, I regret it.
00:15:55.000 It was how low the jeans were.
00:15:56.000 That's the bit I regret.
00:15:57.000 Do you know what I regret most of all?
00:15:58.000 The lower thumb.
00:16:00.000 That's right.
00:16:00.000 Yes.
00:16:01.000 When I see that guy, I think, there's no need for that, Russ.
00:16:03.000 You shouldn't have let yourself down there.
00:16:03.000 No.
00:16:05.000 I remember that shoot.
00:16:05.000 But then were the days, Gal.
00:16:07.000 That's what I was doing back then.
00:16:08.000 Were you there?
00:16:09.000 You poor sod.
00:16:09.000 I was there.
00:16:10.000 Part of some absolute crap, haven't you, over the years?
00:16:10.000 I know.
00:16:13.000 Let's go back to the last... Yeah, because the funniest thing is, like, when you're trying to bring down James O'Keefe, who sounds like, you know, who knows, because these are, at the moment, simply claims.
00:16:21.000 Yeah, they're claims.
00:16:23.000 But, like, what he was saying is that Pfizer have exhibited a level of profiteering and potentially corruption that means they
00:16:31.000 should be subject to a lot of investigation. What they're saying is he put on a
00:16:36.000 production of Oklahoma in Virginia and spent 20 grand on company expenses for the
00:16:41.000 staff to come.
00:16:42.000 Yeah, to take the staff to see him in Oklahoma.
00:16:46.000 What's this? $5,000?
00:16:48.000 $5,000 for a cowboy costume?
00:16:50.000 You dare to say that Pfizer are corrupt?
00:16:53.000 How dare you?
00:16:55.000 It's not like he said everyone's got to stay in their house for two years while he's in Oklahoma.
00:16:59.000 It's not like everyone's got to take some medicine while he's in Oklahoma, is it?
00:17:03.000 It's certainly not that.
00:17:04.000 It's not as bad?
00:17:05.000 No.
00:17:05.000 I would say.
00:17:06.000 No, I mean... I'd like to go.
00:17:08.000 No one's even asked the staff.
00:17:09.000 Also, did you enjoy going to see it?
00:17:11.000 I've never seen anything like it.
00:17:11.000 It was brilliant.
00:17:11.000 Oh, my God.
00:17:12.000 The atmosphere.
00:17:13.000 Oh, to be alive at all was fantastic.
00:17:16.000 But to be young and to go to that, that was very heaven.
00:17:19.000 It was bliss to be there.
00:17:21.000 I'd love to go.
00:17:22.000 Do you know any songs from Oklahoma?
00:17:23.000 No.
00:17:23.000 How does it go?
00:17:26.000 Oh, what a beautiful morning.
00:17:27.000 Is that in there?
00:17:28.000 I think so.
00:17:28.000 Is that in there?
00:17:29.000 Do you know what we need to do?
00:17:31.000 Go and see a performance of Oklahoma.
00:17:33.000 And I'll fund it!
00:17:36.000 It's not taxpayer money!
00:17:38.000 Ordinary taxpayers didn't have to pay for that and then he made a profit of billions from it.
00:17:42.000 That's not what happened.
00:17:43.000 Absolutely right.
00:17:44.000 So even if this dude ain't great, and certainly it seems if they're a right-wing organisation, their politics are different from our politics, but we believe left, right, We should unite.
00:17:53.000 There's no left and right no more.
00:17:54.000 It's right and wrong.
00:17:55.000 Truth!
00:17:57.000 Justice!
00:17:57.000 And that's what we're interested in talking to our next guest, James Schneider, about.
00:18:00.000 James is a political organiser who wants to instigate radical change within the system.
00:18:05.000 He's a supporter for Make Amazon Pay, the author of Our Block, How We Win, and he's an international chess player.
00:18:12.000 James, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
00:18:15.000 Thank you for having me.
00:18:15.000 It's a pleasure to have you.
00:18:16.000 Your hair looks fantastic.
00:18:17.000 Thanks very much.
00:18:18.000 That's a bloody good start.
00:18:21.000 We've been speaking to Christian Smalls, the leader of the union in the United States,
00:18:26.000 and what struck me about him is the way that his perspective was transcendent of the ordinary
00:18:30.000 left-right divides that sometimes prohibit, I think, advancement in a political landscape
00:18:36.000 that seems to be increasingly defined by centralism versus the periphery.
00:18:41.000 How do you think we can order democracy to make it more meaningful so that people have more investment in democratic process?
00:18:48.000 How can dissent be incorporated into this process when you have now mostly central political parties that, broadly speaking, agree with one another and are not representing the interests of ordinary people, whether that's in our country, the UK or America or wherever else, mate?
00:19:03.000 So I think the point that you're making, which is right, is that ordinary people have basically the same interests and want, broadly speaking, the same things.
00:19:12.000 Some people have some differences this way and the other way, and they don't have power in their lives to do that.
00:19:17.000 So take, if you're an Amazon worker at work, you're monitored by an algorithm which knows everything about what breaks you're taking, how much you're lifting, how far you're walking, all of that stuff.
00:19:28.000 You don't have any control over your life.
00:19:31.000 So what is, I think, important, what most people want, what people feel is missing, is that control and is that democracy in their lives.
00:19:39.000 So that goes for, you know, if you're a striking nurse now, if you're an Amazon worker, if you're worried about climate change or whatever that might be, because you don't have control in your life, you can't do anything about it.
00:19:51.000 So the thing to do It's for people who are in the same type of situation to get together to work with each other against whatever power they're confronted with.
00:20:00.000 So that means if you're a worker with other people that you work with, because you've got the same boss, you can deal with them.
00:20:06.000 If you're a tenant, work with other tenants so you can deal with landlords.
00:20:10.000 If you're paying rip-off energy bills, work with other people who are paying or can't pay their rip-off energy bills.
00:20:17.000 And together, bit by bit, and And, you know, we can build our own power and we, you know, that's not going to be, there's no simple solution.
00:20:25.000 You can't just elect one party and everything will be better.
00:20:29.000 And also has to happen on a global scale, not just in our own countries, because there's huge systems of power and control, which keeps some people rich and particularly hurt most of the countries on earth.
00:20:41.000 And it's clear that those powers now are globalist.
00:20:45.000 They are ultimately transcendent of national sovereignty.
00:20:50.000 We talk a lot about how organisations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation exert incredible control over another unelected organisation like the WHO, how WEF policies keep finding their way into national governments and how the pandemic period Broadly speaking, exacerbated that trend.
00:21:08.000 Now we're talking about the way that Amazon treats its workers generally.
00:21:11.000 Now that Amazon are, I think, the ninth, if Amazon were a nation, they'd be the ninth most powerful nation in the world as I understand it.
00:21:16.000 And in the post-war Ukraine environment, there's an assumption that the digitalization of Ukraine is is utmost among their goals. We get this sense that people
00:21:24.000 are piloting these modalities, piloting new ways of surveillance, digital ID scores,
00:21:30.000 tracking people, new methods for a certain control. And I liked the way you described the
00:21:34.000 necessity for forming new alliances placed perhaps on community where you live or unions around
00:21:40.000 the way that you work and indeed the way that various unions can come together in
00:21:44.000 common cause.
00:21:45.000 What we essentially need, it sounds like you're saying to me, James, is new ways of forming alliances.
00:21:50.000 I know there are groups like Don't Pay UK in our country that are trying to confront the energy crisis at a time where Shell and BP are experiencing record profits at a time where the Nord Stream pipeline has been blown up, seemingly in accordance with an agenda that the United States of America have to control the natural gas market which they've explicitly
00:22:09.000 talked about though I have make no claims to access to information that nobody
00:22:13.000 else has. How do you see the role of unions around big tech companies like
00:22:18.000 Amazon and even some of the movements around health workers that are happening
00:22:22.000 in our country the UK being influential for global solidarity movements for
00:22:27.000 ordinary people mate?
00:22:28.000 I mean, these are new things, but they're also old things.
00:22:31.000 The ways in which people have stood up and resisted power and oppression throughout history are basically the same kinds of ways.
00:22:38.000 They're people who have the same interests coming together to fight back and then forming alliances with other groups of people who are doing the same thing.
00:22:47.000 And I think, you know, if we're going to get substantial change in this country, in Britain, that's going to be in large part due to the trade unions and the workers who right now are saying, I don't want a pay cut.
00:23:00.000 I don't want to have lower living standards.
00:23:02.000 I don't deserve it.
00:23:02.000 I work hard.
00:23:04.000 And the reason why they've got so much popular support is because almost everyone is in the same position.
00:23:10.000 So that is a really big basis for a democratic moment for Do you want your water to be owned by the public and owned democratically?
00:23:16.000 you know, how, what all their voting history is and all of that because when
00:23:20.000 you poll people on all of these issues like do you want your water to be owned
00:23:25.000 by the public and owned democratically or do you want you know shit pumped into
00:23:30.000 your rivers, almost everyone like three-quarters of people say yeah yeah we
00:23:35.000 want that publicly owned.
00:23:36.000 If you say, should Amazon workers be paid?
00:23:39.000 Should they get the £15 an hour minimum that they're going on strike for in the UK?
00:23:44.000 Very few people go, oh no, I don't think they should be paid decently.
00:23:48.000 People don't think nurses should be getting a pay cut.
00:23:50.000 So that is the basis that you can start to bring people together.
00:23:54.000 And that doesn't make it easy.
00:23:56.000 It doesn't make it obvious.
00:23:56.000 If it were easy, it would have already happened.
00:23:58.000 But the interests of the many, as it were, are so much more aligned.
00:24:04.000 It's interesting how much work goes into keeping these divisions entrenched.
00:24:19.000 It's also fascinating working in the media space, James, to see how a figure like Bernie Sanders, who's strongly, of course, connected to the left wing, one might say, of the Democrat Party, is now Right in on Fox News, how it's conventional to see a traditional or conventional right wing space like Fox News talking about demonopolization, establishment corruption.
00:24:41.000 And we've had guests on this show from Adam Curtis to Martin Goury talk about how these labels are becoming increasingly redundant as establishment power of the in the United States of the Democrat left comes alloyed to the kind of financial interests that you know, at the time of the Iraq war would have been, we
00:24:59.000 all knew what Dick Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, we all understood, oh, what it is, is
00:25:05.000 they're agitating for conflict, then they profit from that conflict, then they profit from
00:25:09.000 the reconstruction. Similarly, and much more anecdotal and on a more parochial scale, like
00:25:15.000 I live in an area that is conventional, what you might call conservative.
00:25:19.000 That's, I guess, Republican in your language.
00:25:22.000 And we went to a sort of an anti-water protest because the water facilities where I live are owned by QA and China and various foreign investors.
00:25:33.000 And they are indeed pumping raw sewage into the rivers because it's too expensive or not profitable enough
00:25:40.000 to spend money on filtration systems that exist that would mean that it's not necessary
00:25:45.000 to pump shit into the rivers.
00:25:47.000 And it's so interesting that when you have that mentality, when you have that modality, that is where you end up.
00:25:52.000 And to agitate for change at that level, at some point you do require a political movement, don't
00:25:58.000 And America don't have that in the Democrat Party, we've seen that, it's evident.
00:25:58.000 you?
00:26:02.000 We don't have it in a Labour Party led by Keir Starmer, I wouldn't imagine.
00:26:07.000 So do you think this is a time for the organisation of new political movements and how ought they be framed, James?
00:26:14.000 The leader of Tanzania's independence, Julius Nyeri, said the US is also a one party state, but just with traditional American exuberance, they have two of them.
00:26:26.000 And we've got, you know, not exactly the same, but we've got some problems like that here.
00:26:31.000 And I think We do need big political movements, and they need to be movements of movements.
00:26:36.000 They need to bring together your people from, you know, they might vote Conservative, but they're worried about the river.
00:26:43.000 They want that to be managed properly.
00:26:46.000 They want proper water.
00:26:47.000 They don't want to be ripped off.
00:26:48.000 They don't want shit pumped into the internet.
00:26:51.000 So I think it's going to come about through bringing together Those actions that people are doing.
00:26:57.000 I think verbs are better than nouns.
00:26:59.000 If you say, I'm about this thing, then we'll sit here and we'll argue about that thing.
00:27:04.000 If we say, no, we're going to do something, we are going to stand up against our boss.
00:27:09.000 We're going to stand up against the privatised company.
00:27:11.000 We're going to stand up against health privatisation.
00:27:13.000 We're going to do something together.
00:27:15.000 Then you build trust.
00:27:16.000 Then you build alliances, then you build solidarity.
00:27:19.000 And I think once we've done some more of that, then we'll be able to have a political movement that can transform the country and go much further.
00:27:27.000 Do you think that independent media is going to become increasingly necessary?
00:27:30.000 It seems there's quite deep collaboration between most media spaces and conventional establishment-oriented politics in the manner that you described.
00:27:40.000 Two parties in a one-party state, ultimately.
00:27:43.000 What is the role and the significance of the media in disrupting these systems of governance that are becoming increasingly adept at nullifying dissent?
00:27:54.000 The media's got a long-standing role in shaping public opinion.
00:27:59.000 It's not perfect, it's not like it's completely planned by a small group of people, but they have a role in shaping public opinion and generally to the interest of the establishment.
00:28:08.000 So places that give you a way in, whether that is independent media or the openings that do open up on the mainstream corporate media, although there are not very many of them, are extremely important to take.
00:28:20.000 And also people doing things with each other.
00:28:23.000 You know, one thing is watching something and that's good because you learn.
00:28:27.000 But when you learn by doing, you learn through the experience of being part of something.
00:28:32.000 That's also how, you know, so I find people will get way more education, for example, about what's going on with the water system by going down to the protests at a river or on a beach and talking to people.
00:28:44.000 They'll feel it.
00:28:45.000 They'll know it much more deeply.
00:28:47.000 Then, of course, it's good to watch videos and read you know read books and all the rest of it that's that's great but I think if you can move people from passively finding out how the world works and how the world is generally not speaking not set up in their interest and move towards action then you get from just knowledge to actual power.
00:29:08.000 That's good Yes, and also, as you say, finding new ways to formulate alliances, not being trapped in the conveniently placed silos that prevent us from finding new ways to work together.
00:29:22.000 We've got Christian Smalls, leader of the American Amazon movement, who I feel like, and we'll check this when he comes, maybe voted for Trump at some point.
00:29:29.000 So it shows you that populism in the United States is an anti-establishment ideology, That is now appears to be coming from a surprising direction, although I know a lot of you will disagree with that.
00:29:42.000 Let me know what you think in the stream and the chat.
00:29:45.000 Now I can sense, Gareth, because I know you well, because I hear your breathing patterns change, that you want to say something.
00:29:50.000 Just as I was warming up.
00:29:51.000 A chess question with James about strategy and stuff.
00:29:55.000 No, I was just going to jump in.
00:29:56.000 I think what he said, I remember when Christian was on, and he was saying that a lot of the people that he had to kind of convince to come along with him on, you know, the unionization around Amazon were Republicans, were Trump voters, were people from all backgrounds.
00:30:09.000 He was saying that there were, you know, lots of kind of poor people he had to bring together.
00:30:13.000 Different gender identities, he was saying.
00:30:15.000 And he was saying that that was what worked in the end.
00:30:18.000 He seemed a bit mad, didn't he?
00:30:19.000 Because everyone was getting fucked over by Amazon.
00:30:22.000 But do you think that there's obviously this issue at the moment when you're talking about coming together and actually doing something, tackling some of these issues, there's obviously these protest laws that are coming in at the moment worldwide.
00:30:33.000 Is that as a kind of reaction to the kind of things that you're talking about?
00:30:37.000 Yeah, so I want to say one other thing, just to come to the protest thing.
00:30:41.000 When a system of control starts to break down, and that's what we're seeing, that's what we've been living through since 2008, the system is struggling to reproduce itself.
00:30:55.000 In the economy with debt and with consent.
00:30:57.000 People don't trust the system in the way that they used to 20, 25 years ago.
00:31:03.000 And either you can make people's, from the perspective of the system, you can make enough people's lives better that you gain consent.
00:31:12.000 Or you have to police it much more aggressively.
00:31:13.000 And obviously, they don't have any plans to make people's lives better.
00:31:16.000 So policing is going to get going to get, you know, stricter, more aggressive, shut down dissent, shut down protest.
00:31:23.000 But one thing I want to say about this, you know, left, right pop this point that you're making.
00:31:29.000 There is a difference.
00:31:30.000 And the thing you have to focus on is ultimately, is something about giving people power and making them more powerful than their allies?
00:31:39.000 Is it genuinely about the many versus the few?
00:31:41.000 Or is it a kind of phony version of it, which says, yes, no, we're on the side of the people.
00:31:47.000 But ultimately, let's take Trump.
00:31:49.000 It gives the biggest, you know, handout to corporations in the history of the US.
00:31:54.000 He says, I'm standing with the people, but then he stands basically with his billionaire mates in his actual policies.
00:32:01.000 I think that's the thing that you have to, you have to look at.
00:32:03.000 I think the thing that in the, in the, sorry, carry on.
00:32:06.000 Ultimately these things will become measurable in policy and economics.
00:32:09.000 How did these, the measures of the Trump regime, not regime, era, how did they affect your life?
00:32:16.000 Did things improve for you personally or was it more of an emotional catharsis?
00:32:20.000 I'm so fascinated in what it must have been like to live in that country during that period.
00:32:24.000 Certainly I would agree with you that the establishment are not offering solutions to the problems in your life because they don't care, because it's not a bug or an error, it's a feature.
00:32:33.000 You're going to find and follow James on Twitter at SchneiderHome.
00:32:36.000 Thank you, James, for joining us.
00:32:37.000 Thanks for having me.
00:32:38.000 We'll get to talk about chess on another occasion.
00:32:40.000 Now, we've got a fantastic Pulitzer Prize winning conspiracy theorist joining, sorry, journalist joining us in a matter of seconds.
00:32:48.000 But before we talk about the Nord Stream pipeline and how that narrative shifted, the ludicrous tricks and skullduggery that was at play during that narrative, Joe Biden's announcement, believe me, we will stop them.
00:32:58.000 We will stop them.
00:32:59.000 My chat with Jocko Willink in which he revealed Navy SEALs will be a piece of cake.
00:33:03.000 I don't think he used that phrase for them to disrupt that pipeline.
00:33:06.000 Let's get up to speed with the Nord Stream story before I bring yet another Pulitzer Prize winning journalist into your life.
00:33:14.000 Here's the news.
00:33:15.000 No, here's the effing news.
00:33:16.000 Have a look at this.
00:33:17.000 You know what they'll tell you on the mainstream media?
00:33:19.000 Russia blew up their own pipeline in an act of inconceivable, senseless, unprofitable self-destruction.
00:33:27.000 Certainly wasn't America doing it.
00:33:29.000 There are no clues or evidence to suggest that America did it.
00:33:32.000 Today's story is fantastic.
00:33:33.000 The evolution on the Nord Stream Pipeline story is a piece of reporting from a very credible Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who, get ready, is about to be called a conspiracy theorist, a whack job and condemned For whatever they can find.
00:33:47.000 Is he old?
00:33:48.000 Oh, yeah, he's old.
00:33:49.000 That's bad though, is it?
00:33:50.000 Well, is it?
00:33:51.000 Yes, because he said something that's inconvenient.
00:33:54.000 Yeah, old is bad.
00:33:55.000 The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims.
00:34:06.000 And we all knew that anyway, because it was bloody obvious.
00:34:10.000 Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, has claimed that US deep sea divers using a NATO military exercise as a cover planted mines along the pipelines that were later detonated remotely, as Jocko Willink said when he was on our show about three months ago.
00:34:25.000 Once hailed the greatest American investigative reporter, Hirsch, 85, who broke stories such as the mass murder of 500 civilians at Mai Le in Vietnam and the torture of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, said that the black op was ordered by President Biden and that the attack was carried out by the CIA in cooperation with Norway.
00:34:45.000 Many of us were discussing this possibility just because it seemed plausible, just because it had been explicitly stated that the US had an agenda to take over trade of natural gas between Russia and Europe, that they saw that as a market that they should own.
00:34:59.000 Because Joe Biden in public said, well, I tell you, we'll blow up that pipeline.
00:35:03.000 Just because Condoleezza Rice about 20 years ago explicitly said, You simply want to change the structure of energy dependence.
00:35:11.000 You want to depend more on the North American energy platform, the tremendous bounty of oil and gas that we're finding in North America.
00:35:20.000 You want to have pipelines that don't go through Ukraine and Russia.
00:35:24.000 For years we've tried to get the Europeans to be interested in different pipeline routes.
00:35:29.000 It's time to do that.
00:35:30.000 I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal were it not for the fact that the whole thing is framed by a war that we're continually told is humanitarian when every day new evidence emerges that it is financially motivated, that Zelensky and his government have unusual financial relationships, that Ukraine is corrupt, that it was okay to say Ukraine was corrupt before the start of this war, peace deals have been suggested and then sabotaged until it's convenient and enough profit's been extracted.
00:35:55.000 It just goes on and on and on Until in the end you think, well, what is it we're being told right now that's not true?
00:36:01.000 Because we could start just adjusting a bit more quickly.
00:36:04.000 Here's a few guesses for me.
00:36:05.000 We're going to find out more stuff about the pandemic.
00:36:07.000 They're going to use new ways of introducing lockdowns and digital IDs and surveillance.
00:36:11.000 And they're going to agitate for a war with China.
00:36:13.000 Those are just some of my guesses.
00:36:15.000 Let me know your own conspiracy theorists that will just be normal news in a few months in the comments and chat below.
00:36:20.000 And as for this Seymour Hersh that Conspiracy theorist with his crackpot stories about the mass murder of 500 civilians in my lane.
00:36:29.000 Oh yeah, the Vietnam War.
00:36:30.000 Of course now we all know that was unethical.
00:36:32.000 Necessary war that wasn't a mad giddy proxy war carried out by lunatic corrupt presidents and unnecessarily draining American lives and resources and wasting the life of the good people of Vietnam.
00:36:45.000 And what about this Abu Ghraib prison?
00:36:47.000 Oh, what a lot of hocus pocus that turned out.
00:36:50.000 It's all well and good.
00:36:51.000 Complaining about conditions in Abu Ghraib, but may I ask, how are we to reform these Iraqis if we don't attach electrodes to their genitals?
00:36:58.000 So Seymour Hersh, with his crazy stories about Vietnam and Abu Ghraib, is just some sort of nutcase.
00:37:04.000 He should have his own channel on Rumble.
00:37:07.000 We're joined now by Seymour Hersh who's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who already would have seen the ineptitude of that link and probably been astonished by the standards and how they've fallen in media in the last 10 or 20 years.
00:37:21.000 We're speaking to Seymour Hersh because of his recent Substack article I'm glad to be here, I think.
00:37:26.000 Let me ask you a question.
00:37:28.000 Yes.
00:37:28.000 which of course suggests that the US involvement was contrary to their very public denial and
00:37:34.000 even why the denial itself was significant in avoiding congressional permission. It's a fantastic
00:37:39.000 piece of writing from a prize-winning journalist. It's an honor to have you, Seymour. Thanks for
00:37:44.000 joining us. I'm glad to be here, I think. Let me ask you a question. Yes. What's your hat?
00:37:49.000 It's probably attention-seeking on some level, Seymour.
00:37:54.000 I've come from the world of entertainment, probably haven't entirely let go of the idea that I'm sort of a physical representation of the radical stance that I take in my own journalism.
00:38:04.000 One journalist to another.
00:38:07.000 I don't know if the word radical is the right one, but we'll let that one stand.
00:38:11.000 Do you want me to take the hat off?
00:38:12.000 Because I'll do it out of respect for you and your prize.
00:38:15.000 I don't want to see what's there, but I will tell you something.
00:38:17.000 I was fascinated.
00:38:19.000 As I told one of your aides just a minute ago by the Condoleezza Rice quote and I'm my pay my pay for this this performance here will be somebody send me a link to that we will send that to you it's not it's it's It's you're ahead of the curve with that idea.
00:38:39.000 But that's that's been a prominent theme in the American conversations about oil.
00:38:47.000 And it is a fact that Norway which did help us has more than doubled the amount of oil natural gas rather is shipping out to Western Europe.
00:38:56.000 It had about 9 or 10 percent its way up.
00:38:59.000 And so you can't work, you can never cut out mercantile interests, but there were probably much more immediate interests of war in Ukraine, etc, etc.
00:39:08.000 But that's a fascinating point that you were making.
00:39:11.000 Anyway, so I got something out of this.
00:39:13.000 I'm happy.
00:39:14.000 Look, can you stop being so generally cynical about my hat and the entire experience of this interview?
00:39:20.000 I get something out of it.
00:39:21.000 You don't need to overplay the, I'm a well-worn journalist.
00:39:25.000 I was around during Wargate.
00:39:27.000 I've got a Pulitzer Prize.
00:39:28.000 I get it.
00:39:29.000 You're senior.
00:39:30.000 You're world weary.
00:39:31.000 You've become cynical about establishment power.
00:39:35.000 It's much more ephemeral than that.
00:39:37.000 It's just, you know, it's amusing.
00:39:39.000 The hat is amusing.
00:39:40.000 I don't think there's anything profound in me talking about it.
00:39:43.000 It's what I see.
00:39:45.000 Sir, firstly, I will credit Gareth, who makes the show with me, for his research that
00:39:50.000 led to our use of the Condoleezza Rice clip.
00:39:54.000 And our general approach is to challenge the dominant narrative that we are
00:39:58.000 given through mainstream media, which all and once was the domain of ordinary investigative media, which
00:40:07.000 seems to have become deeply sanitized in the last 20, 30 years.
00:40:12.000 Increasingly, we're seeing, whether it's Chris Hedges, or Glenn Greenwald, or yourself, journalists
00:40:19.000 that have been prized for their investigative work being, if not demonized, certainly subject to something
00:40:26.000 amounting to smears.
00:40:28.000 The White House has already denied your story.
00:40:31.000 And I'd like to ask you what you think has happened to journalism in the last 20 or 30 years,
00:40:37.000 and why we are not presented with complex narratives that undergird reporting with the kind of economic, financial,
00:40:44.000 military, and geopolitical interests that usually lead to events like the Ukraine-Russia conflict,
00:40:49.000 or indeed, an event, broadly speaking, within the remit of that narrative,
00:40:54.000 like the Nord Stream Pipeline sabotage?
00:40:58.000 Well, I think one of the problems--
00:41:00.000 look, you're asking-- you're throwing the ball to me.
00:41:04.000 You know, this is, this is all I brood about a lot because I worked at the New York Times in the seventies and, and had a great time, was never sort of blocked from writing stuff.
00:41:14.000 And it's a different world now.
00:41:15.000 I, you know, oh, come on, stop it.
00:41:19.000 The bottom line is that I think what a secret source now is for the people, many of the people who write for the major newspapers, is a press secretary who says, come over here, I'll tell you something a little different than I've told the other guys.
00:41:36.000 I just don't understand why they're not jumping on certain stories.
00:41:39.000 Certainly this story is, I could just tell you a friend of mine, I have a wonderful old friend who escaped from the Middle East, became an oil man, became very rich and very happy, living in France now.
00:41:50.000 He wrote me after this, after the story, and he said, he said, oh, oh Sai, he said, my nickname, he said, you have become a master in the deconstruction of the obvious.
00:42:01.000 I mean, what was so hard about this story?
00:42:04.000 We know Russia didn't do it, because if they wanted to, they could turn a valve.
00:42:08.000 And so, I guess, is Macedonia a member of the NATO?
00:42:13.000 Maybe they did it.
00:42:14.000 You know, where do you go for the next possible suspect?
00:42:18.000 It's purely us, since the president basically said it.
00:42:18.000 Who is it?
00:42:22.000 But the bigger question is, what's going on with journalism?
00:42:24.000 I don't know.
00:42:26.000 My old newspaper, the New York Times, to which I probably went, I did all sorts of stuff on the CIA and Watergate and Vietnam for them, hasn't touched the story.
00:42:37.000 Neither has the Washington Post, which is another two great main sheets.
00:42:42.000 I don't think the Wall Street Journal has.
00:42:43.000 The rest of the country, some people have.
00:42:46.000 It's just like a blank.
00:42:48.000 It's like, it could be.
00:42:50.000 It's as simple as we're coming off the Trump years, and we made big divisions in the media.
00:42:55.000 We're either going to be for or against Trump.
00:42:58.000 It could be the same sort of dichotomy plays out.
00:43:00.000 We're now in the Trump corner.
00:43:02.000 And if we write something critical of—we're now in the Biden corner, rather.
00:43:06.000 If we publish something critical of Biden, we might be leading ourselves open to more Republicans, the guy in Florida, etc., the scientist.
00:43:16.000 I don't know what the fear is.
00:43:17.000 But it can't just be about the fact that I don't name sources.
00:43:21.000 I spent, you know, nine years at the New York Times writing about the CIA going after Allende and going, you know, and all that stuff, killing people abroad without naming sources.
00:43:31.000 I mean, you know, either trust what I do or you don't.
00:43:33.000 Yes, I know that you also wrote about Abu Ghraib, significant revelations there, and about the mass murders in Vietnam of civilians.
00:43:42.000 And the banalization of the media space is a theme that we touch upon frequently, the infantilization of us as the audience class.
00:43:53.000 Even with the current escalation of tensions between the USA and China through the sanctions around semiconductors and of course the rather more visually stimulating and sensational story that accompanies the balloon and indeed the shooting down of the balloon.
00:44:11.000 Can I tell you about the balloons?
00:44:12.000 Can I tell you a little bit about the balloons?
00:44:14.000 Yeah!
00:44:17.000 I asked somebody about it.
00:44:18.000 And I said, well, what's going on with the balloons?
00:44:18.000 I have friends.
00:44:20.000 Of course, they've been there forever.
00:44:24.000 Maybe you could argue they could take photographs of what a satellite can see much better.
00:44:28.000 But basically, the last wave of the unnamed car like with American press so full of it.
00:44:34.000 It turns out the federal government has a contract with the meteorology department or whatever it is, weather department at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks, and that is one cold place.
00:44:45.000 It's way up there.
00:44:46.000 Most of the classes are underground.
00:44:48.000 You go underground to classes.
00:44:50.000 I've spoken there.
00:44:51.000 I know about this firsthand.
00:44:53.000 And over the Arctic Circle, the Arctic Circle is a Everybody flies the polar route from Asia to America and there's no weather station there.
00:45:04.000 So the university has these little vehicles that goes and reports.
00:45:10.000 Pilots want to know if there's any unusual weather going on.
00:45:13.000 That's what you have to do.
00:45:14.000 And they are reporters of that information.
00:45:18.000 And that's what was shot down.
00:45:19.000 One of those things was shot down was one of those units that is sent up by a university but paid by the government.
00:45:25.000 To go over the Arctic Circle and report on, you know, in case there's an extreme wind.
00:45:31.000 I don't know what the cliche is when the wind goes down in a downdraft.
00:45:37.000 And since there's no official station there, who wants to be there to run a weather station?
00:45:42.000 And so they're basically a remote weather station.
00:45:44.000 That's what they shot down.
00:45:45.000 Whether they're going to talk about it in the next couple of weeks.
00:45:48.000 And we've put about, what, Honestly, I don't know how many hundreds of billions of dollars into a new fighter, the F-22, that's coming online.
00:46:00.000 We had one called the F-1.
00:46:01.000 We put $203 billion in to make about a hundred of them.
00:46:05.000 But in the 80s, so far, seven exist.
00:46:09.000 It's just, money just floats.
00:46:11.000 But we paid a lot of money for the F-22, and its first kill was the first balloon.
00:46:17.000 That one came over, was discovered over Montana.
00:46:20.000 And the pilot, and I'd like to think, That he knows exactly what he's doing.
00:46:25.000 When he landed, you know, in World War II, your guys and your Spitfires and us and our P-51s, you took care of every mish-mish.
00:46:32.000 You put a little, you painted on the side a decal for the kills.
00:46:36.000 We did the same in Asia when they are P-51s.
00:46:40.000 So the pilot of this F-22, getting the first kill of this plane, painted a balloon On the side of a socialized.
00:46:48.000 I'd love to think he was joking.
00:46:50.000 I don't know that.
00:46:50.000 I know he did it.
00:46:51.000 I don't know whether what was in the state of mind, but that's what we're reduced.
00:46:55.000 Now.
00:46:55.000 We've got to kill.
00:46:56.000 We kill the balloon and that's worth a couple couple, you know, few hundred billion dollars for a plane.
00:47:02.000 Yeah, a small price to pay for dispatching some hydrogen and some helium.
00:47:07.000 It's over-the-top, it's over-the-top crazy, that's all I can tell you.
00:47:10.000 How do you feel then about the context that has to be said frames the Nord Stream Pipeline story, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the years of infringement upon former Soviet territories, the 2014... You're not allowed to say that!
00:47:28.000 How dare you say that, that there might have been reason Behind, you know, the language used.
00:47:34.000 The language, it was done in 1990, the first agreement not to go east, but when East Germany joined West Germany, that was in NATO.
00:47:43.000 We wanted to make the combined country, and don't forget, the Germans had a real problem because after World War II, when they wanted to get back into civilization and be accepted by other countries, get into international groups like NATO, they spent a long time murdering people in Western Europe and bombing it and destroying it.
00:48:02.000 And so Willy Brandt was the guy that said, we're going to be a money bank for you guys.
00:48:08.000 We're going to be great neighbors.
00:48:11.000 We're going to trade with you.
00:48:12.000 We're going to show you we belong.
00:48:15.000 Willy Brandt did do that.
00:48:17.000 He got that started for all of his faults.
00:48:19.000 And so in 1990, when they joined, Gorbachev agreed to let this unified Germany into NATO and the price was a commitment by us in writing that I have a um I live in Washington so I know people I have a friend that has access to the classified part of the embassy and our embassy in Bonn and he ran him he went and read the cables for me there's nothing fantastic about it the language used by our Secretary of State James Baker was the equivalent the equivalent in the in the documents
00:48:50.000 The agreement we made with the Corbett shop it wasn't a treaty but it was an understanding not one inch we will not go one inch east and then we've now NATO was initially was 19 when it was set up in 69 49 rather it's now what about 170 countries Macedonia you know stuff like that I'm exaggerating but you know NATO is a far cry from what we It's not Europe anymore.
00:49:12.000 It's all over.
00:49:13.000 I don't know.
00:49:14.000 Maybe one of the tropical islands in the South Pacific will become a member of NATO next.
00:49:18.000 And so here's the Russians eating this.
00:49:21.000 Here's Putin eating this.
00:49:23.000 And then we start putting missiles in the border in Poland that we claim are defensive, but in a half a day they can be turned into offensive weapons.
00:49:32.000 There's no question about that.
00:49:33.000 It's a fact that can be just diverted.
00:49:34.000 It'll take some time, a half a day, but you can fire your seven minutes from Moscow.
00:49:39.000 And that's another reality.
00:49:41.000 So, what I hate to see in the paper, in Mildew's paper, for example, they keep on describing the Russian attack as being without provocation, unprovoked.
00:49:52.000 Well, it was really provoked.
00:49:55.000 I'm very troubled by my president and his immediate foreign national security team, Tony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, and Victoria Nuland, whose husband He's one of the leading neocons who helped convince Dick Cheney that the solution to 9-11 and Al-Qaeda was to attack Iraq.
00:50:19.000 One of the great non-existence relations.
00:50:23.000 I mean, just so crazy.
00:50:24.000 But anyway, those three, I call them Winkum, Blinkum, and Nod.
00:50:28.000 Nod, I don't know if you have that child story there, but we have it in our country.
00:50:33.000 The first thing they do is they meet the Secretary of State in Alaska with the Chinese and start telling the Chinese what to do about their own domestic problems.
00:50:46.000 And now we push the war.
00:50:52.000 You know, I don't know things, but I know things.
00:50:57.000 The initial agreement, the initial decision To plan for the pipeline was an option for leverage for the president against Putin.
00:51:08.000 It was started a year ago, 13 months ago in December, and bled over to early this year.
00:51:19.000 And the idea was to ask the community for ideas.
00:51:22.000 I wrote about this, whether kinetic or non-kinetic, and the word was kinetic, that means we're going to hurt somebody.
00:51:27.000 And so of course it emerged, we're going to take out the pipelines.
00:51:30.000 We've been complaining about the pipelines for a dozen years.
00:51:33.000 The first one, Nord Stream 1, and the new one.
00:51:36.000 The new pipeline is interesting because the first one was cut off by Russia.
00:51:40.000 The second one was cut off by the Germans.
00:51:43.000 They put a sanction on it.
00:51:45.000 So Germany always had the chance option of opening up the pipeline anytime they wanted.
00:51:50.000 And who cares about the pipeline in summer?
00:51:53.000 But comes fall, comes winter, and that's when you're going to need it.
00:51:58.000 The Russian natural gas has been supplying Germany and Western Europe with cheap gas for, what, a dozen years, and the economy's boomed based on cheap gas.
00:52:10.000 Now, uh europe suffering it's getting cold they had a mild winter but it's getting very cold now the leading companies are all getting the price of gas is going up enormously companies like basf which is the largest chemical company in germany in the world has been talking to china about maybe moving some assets there the consequences of knocking out the pipeline economically are disastrous uh as again as you said norway's getting more gas and norway was a big player in us with the project but the key
00:52:44.000 The key thing is, when the president told the intelligence community, I want this, I want this, I want to see if I have an option, I think the thought of, in my understanding was, the thought of the community was, we're going to do what the, we do what the president wants.
00:53:00.000 That's what, that's the whole idea of having a CIA.
00:53:03.000 I mean, if you're the President of the United States right now, this guy can't get a thing through Congress.
00:53:08.000 But tomorrow, if he wants to, he can take a walk in the Rose Garden with the CIA director and somebody can get hurt the next day.
00:53:13.000 That makes you feel pretty good, particularly if you can't have your way anywhere else.
00:53:17.000 And so, I mean, that's one of the reasons I think the CIA is a very dangerous community, but full of a lot of smart people.
00:53:25.000 Anyway, it was always to be an option.
00:53:28.000 And what happened is, he didn't exercise it.
00:53:32.000 They were going to do it at one point when they had cover in the summer.
00:53:35.000 They had cover because of a, there was a big, the Baltic Sea is not, there's no oil there.
00:53:42.000 And the idea of having a bunch of deep sea divers start digging around would have been exposed any problem, any thought of getting away with taking out the pipelines.
00:53:52.000 It just would have been too obvious, too seen.
00:53:54.000 But there was an exercise, NATO exercise last summer, there's been one every summer, For 22 years now in the Baltic, and then maybe you could slide it in then.
00:54:03.000 That was the idea.
00:54:04.000 But the president didn't pull the whistle then.
00:54:07.000 In late September, he did it.
00:54:09.000 And by that time, the community itself had thought there was no reason to do it anymore.
00:54:15.000 You know, it was there as a potential threat, but he'd already started the war.
00:54:20.000 And by September, the one thing that was interesting, I've always been among a group of journalists and people in the community have been very skeptical about the chances of Ukraine to win a war against Russia.
00:54:35.000 You know, if you know the history, when in Stalingrad, when the Germans got their great defeat, the Russians were losing 2,400 dead and wounded every four hours in the final days of the battle, and one just kept on They are tough.
00:54:53.000 So far, in the war against Ukraine, I'm sure in the beginning it's correct that Putin or his generals underestimated the willingness of the Ukrainians to commit hara-kiri, as they have been.
00:55:04.000 But by September, it was clear there was real trouble.
00:55:07.000 Among other things, the corruption was so wild among the top, even including Zelensky.
00:55:12.000 They were all fighting for what percentage of the money they're going to steal.
00:55:15.000 There was a lot of fighting and brooding about that, even today.
00:55:19.000 And so it was a corrupt regime.
00:55:20.000 It never was going to be accepted in the NATO.
00:55:23.000 And it wasn't going to win the war.
00:55:24.000 And so Joe, then in late September, wants to hit.
00:55:28.000 And he gets it.
00:55:29.000 And at that point, I think there were people in the intelligence community who thought it was, at that point, that didn't make sense.
00:55:36.000 That was just crazy.
00:55:38.000 And what's he doing?
00:55:39.000 He's throwing in, for whatever he can, the fear he had was that since Germany controlled the new pipeline, Nord Stream 2, the one that was just built and was just stopped, they just finished it in 2020.
00:55:55.000 And it was full of gas even then.
00:55:56.000 The gas that came up was, it's a 750 mile pipeline from Germany all the way to near St.
00:56:04.000 Petersburg and right up near Estonia, the border with Russia and Estonia.
00:56:09.000 So the long pipeline was full of methane gas.
00:56:12.000 That's what the gas is, methane.
00:56:14.000 And anyway, and that's what bubbled up.
00:56:15.000 It wasn't pumping any, it just had, just stored there, would have been perfectly safe.
00:56:21.000 And so I guess Biden's thought was, I want to keep any possibility that the Germans and the rest of the Western Union, which is going to start getting cold, he did it in late September, will open up the pipeline and then be at the mercy of Russia.
00:56:41.000 In other words, the way they put it, that pipeline, the Russian gas, was a weapon for the Russians.
00:56:51.000 A weapon.
00:56:51.000 And once you took away that weapon, West Germany, if West Germany cannot open up the pipeline anymore, Germany rather, and the European allies of NATO, well, then they'll keep on supporting us in the war.
00:57:05.000 They won't have the option of saying, we quit.
00:57:07.000 We'd rather have Russian gas than join you in a war that you can't win.
00:57:11.000 And that's what I think the dominant thinking was.
00:57:14.000 Yes, I think you're right.
00:57:15.000 The US were incentivized by the suggestion that it created the opportunity and necessity, in fact, for harmony between Russia and Europe.
00:57:26.000 It created conditions that were not advantageous, that that solutions became evident and suggestible.
00:57:34.000 It was interesting that you touched upon Ukraine in corruption
00:57:37.000 and the current clear out that Zelensky enacted, even though in reporting from The Guardian prior to this
00:57:44.000 conflict, of course, when The Guardian's perspective on Ukraine was
00:57:47.000 radically different and much less simplistic and reductive,
00:57:51.000 they talked about Zelensky's ownership or previous ownership of offshore assets.
00:57:57.000 We know that the oligarch who's recently been ousted, who funded Zelensky's entire career, I understand it,
00:58:04.000 did have a relationship with Hunter Biden, you know, through his corporation Burisma that was paying Hunter
00:58:10.000 Biden.
00:58:11.000 It's just it's fascinating, Seymour, to speak with you with your evident experience and cruel sarcasm
00:58:18.000 when it comes to sartorial matters and hats in particular, to learn that these patterns appear to be increasing
00:58:27.000 and exacerbating over time.
00:58:30.000 A short time ago you could rely on an organisation like the New York Times for anti-establishment, radical reporting and now they are a mouthpiece of the establishment.
00:58:41.000 It's interesting that the Ukrainian conflict, you know, much of the aid that's being offered to Ukraine passes from the Pentagon through the military-industrial complex.
00:58:50.000 Many of those weapons and assets appear to be quite difficult to track.
00:58:55.000 And in the subsequent post-war reconstruction of Ukraine, BlackRock are handling that, and there is an aim for 100% digitalization of Ukraine. So it's certainly, it seems to be a nexus of a
00:59:07.000 great many stories that coalesce around corruption and globalism. A lot of people, by the
00:59:14.000 way, I will tell you Seymour, on our online chat, adore you and your casual radicalism.
00:59:20.000 Although I'm getting there's a lot of people saying you should not have said that about my hat.
00:59:24.000 So it's, I think you've had a bit of a better time than you thought you would have.
00:59:28.000 I think you've enjoyed this a little bit, haven't you?
00:59:31.000 You started off a little bit curmudgeonly in your favourite chair that only you're allowed to sit in, but over time you've warmed to us, as if being warmed by beautiful Nord Stream gas.
00:59:42.000 The only gas you can trust.
00:59:45.000 Your gas is a lot more expensive than my gas, but you also create gas.
00:59:49.000 You're good at creating gas yourself.
00:59:50.000 You're a good gas machine.
00:59:52.000 That's great.
00:59:52.000 All they need to do is fit a pipeline to my face and we could have world peace.
00:59:57.000 Well, I'll tell you one thing about you.
00:59:58.000 You know what you're talking about.
00:59:59.000 So that's very, it makes it much easier for me because you do understand what the world's, what's going on.
01:00:05.000 My only shock is really, to be honest, it was, is the, Including the press in London.
01:00:10.000 I must say the London Times was one of the few people that figured out the story I was writing had some relevance.
01:00:16.000 But most of the cheerleading for Ukraine was madness all the way in the war.
01:00:24.000 I'm sorry, it doesn't mean I love Russia.
01:00:28.000 I certainly don't want to admit to any fondness for anything in Russia.
01:00:31.000 That would make me out to be really in trouble.
01:00:33.000 I'd have to have my wife start the car for the next year, you know.
01:00:36.000 And there's so much hostility to Russia that it overrides common sense.
01:00:42.000 That's what it's done.
01:00:43.000 It's just overridden the notion that the Russian army is going to lose to Ukraine.
01:00:48.000 It's just not going to happen.
01:00:50.000 And when Biden wanted to whistleblown, blew it up, the people who in the community, we're talking about really the creme de creme, We're really appalled by it.
01:01:01.000 They saw it as him making a political, him deciding I'm going to keep Germany and Western Europe cold and broke because I want to try and win this war in Ukraine, a war that he cannot win.
01:01:15.000 The trick that you must, that I will tell you that I've learned in my long, as you said, many, many years, is presidents love wars because they're good for ratings.
01:01:26.000 All right, I got to go.
01:01:28.000 You got to go.
01:01:30.000 Put your headphones down.
01:01:32.000 Listen, I'm getting a bit sick of the level to which you're directing my outfit.
01:01:36.000 Do you want to pull in a surprise for wardrobe next?
01:01:41.000 I'll see you guys.
01:01:42.000 By the way, one thing I didn't know.
01:01:45.000 A lot of people asked me, why Substack?
01:01:48.000 Substack, I'm my own producer there.
01:01:51.000 It's an amazing place.
01:01:54.000 In other words, there was more than a million hits on that story within less than a day.
01:02:02.000 And I get all these emails from people saying, wow, here comes somebody really telling a story now.
01:02:09.000 And they're onto the media.
01:02:12.000 They are onto the media.
01:02:13.000 They're onto the idea that there's either one side or the other, there's no middle.
01:02:17.000 And that means there's no good reporting.
01:02:19.000 And so it's fascinating.
01:02:22.000 I think the economics of the newspaper business are going to change enormously in the next decade.
01:02:28.000 Yeah.
01:02:29.000 Goodbye, I've got to go to work.
01:02:31.000 This isn't work.
01:02:33.000 You can't call this work coming on being vaguely offensive, making some gas jokes.
01:02:38.000 The only thing missing is the pub and the beer.
01:02:42.000 Goodbye, talk to you later.
01:02:43.000 God bless you, Seymour Hersh.
01:02:44.000 Thank you so much.
01:02:45.000 You can find Seymour's incredible work at seymourhersh.substack.com, where as well as providing investigative journalism, cruel barbs come for free.
01:02:57.000 What I thought was that had basically the dynamic of the film Up and we were talking about balloons you know there's that that curmudgeonly old man and that little boy's called Russell in the film Up who's sort of like a little bit optimistic and stuff.
01:03:09.000 I'm optimistic.
01:03:10.000 Well but like he's obviously so brilliant Seymour Hersh and like even in the times when he was talking about all the times because they were they were the only newspaper that kind of published it in mainstream newspaper in this country and even in that they were like the veteran reporter now aged 82 like really trying to do him for like being over He's so brilliant!
01:03:27.000 I feel like we've lost the basic and positive aspects of tribe and hierarchy, i.e.
01:03:35.000 that person is an elder, so when you're talking to that person you think, oh well I'm dealing with someone I would speak respectfully to, like I would if it was in a family or community environment.
01:03:44.000 when everything becomes this sort of mindless damning of patriarchy, even though there are doubtless
01:03:49.000 corrupt things that have come from authoritative and power-oriented structures,
01:03:53.000 doesn't mean that you lose regard for wisdom.
01:03:56.000 That's how people move forward, is by like, all right, take on board what this dude's saying,
01:04:01.000 then we'll apply it to what we've learned and what people younger than us are observing
01:04:05.000 about the cultural trends and priorities of their generation.
01:04:09.000 Needs to be some cohesion.
01:04:10.000 Every direction we have, I think, like a kind of de-racination and separation,
01:04:16.000 that we're not connecting to one another, we're in good faith and in love.
01:04:19.000 There's so much antipathy that in the end, to maintain their line, they have to start dismissing people that are clearly plausible, credible, and in the case of Seymour Hersh, I would argue, quite brilliant.
01:04:34.000 And it's also like, that's the, yeah, like he was taking a piss of it, wasn't he?
01:04:37.000 He was having a laugh.
01:04:39.000 Absolutely.
01:04:39.000 sounding you out when people do that.
01:04:41.000 "Hey, what's with the hair?"
01:04:43.000 They sort of fuck with you a little bit so you respond to it.
01:04:45.000 And also that sort of feeling is like old and can't be bothered to wear it off.
01:04:49.000 "Hey, fuck you!"
01:04:51.000 With a nice attitude.
01:04:53.000 Fantastic.
01:04:55.000 Well, hey, tomorrow we've got Michael Tracy coming on the show.
01:04:59.000 He's an investigative journalist.
01:05:00.000 He'll be talking about the ongoing propaganda push for another world war, which I think, if you live on the world, isn't necessarily a good thing.
01:05:06.000 If you want to join us for the show behind the show, Stay Connected, that we make every week, as well as getting access to my new stand-up special, When It Drops, become a member of the Locals community.
01:05:17.000 They're on here right now, all of our friends on Locals.
01:05:19.000 Look at what they're saying.
01:05:19.000 Look, oh, they want us to talk about football.
01:05:23.000 Some people want me to be president, although some people like you as well, Gareth.
01:05:25.000 Oh, right.
01:05:26.000 I could be your press secretary.
01:05:27.000 I could be your press secretary. I could do this a lot.
01:05:30.000 Yeah, do that. If you wiggle your fingers around, it'll be great for everybody.
01:05:34.000 People talking about, yeah, Zahex 3133, "Why doesn't Russell get the Nobel Peace Prize?"
01:05:38.000 I think you speak for millions when you say that, Zahex 31333.
01:05:43.000 All right then, hey, why don't you sign up to our Locals community?
01:05:47.000 We'll read your comments out during the show and you'll get access to all of this additional content.
01:05:52.000 Join us tomorrow.
01:05:53.000 Not for more of the same.
01:05:54.000 No.
01:05:54.000 Because it's another day.
01:05:55.000 We've moved forward.
01:05:56.000 We're constantly evolving.
01:05:57.000 It'll be for more of the different.