In this episode of the podcast, Gareth and Gareth are joined by Yes She Is to discuss the Epstein scandal, and whether or not Joe Biden solicited donations from Jeffrey Epstein. Also, Gareth reveals why he thinks the CIA are using the Epstein story as a distraction from the Iran nuclear deal, and why they don t want Donald Trump to know about it. And Gareth explains why they think the CIA don't want us to know anything about it because they know it's going to change the way we think about politics. And they're not the only ones with a theory about it, because they also have a theory that the CIA is using Epstein as a tool to destabilise the Trump administration, and that's why they want to get to the bottom of it. Plus, they'll be doing a special presentation on killer aliens, and they'll have a special guest to talk about it too. This is an absolute must-listen episode, and you won't want to miss it! - The Dark Side of the Deep State - The New York Times - Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein Scandal - The Deep State - Joe Biden and Jeffrey Epstein and much, much more! And, of course, we'll be talking about it all on this weeks episode of RUMBLE, hosted by Gareth, Gareth, and Yes She is! and we're joined by special guest, Yes You Are! . - and it's a fantastic show! - Dr. Barnardo. - the brilliant, brilliant, smart, funny, brilliant and brave Gareth. . . . , and so much more. ... And we hope you enjoy it, and we hope that you'll join us next week for the rest of the week's episode of Yes She Are, Yes We Are. and that you do too! Thank you for listening to us! , Gareth and Yes You're Here, Yes She's Here, We're Here? We'll see you next week! ...and we'll hear about it next week, right here on RUMBLAKE! (and then we'll do it in the next episode of The Dark Lord's new show on the Dark Side Of The Darkly Spectacular! ) Thank You, Mr Barnardo ... and we'll talk about Jeffrey Epstein, Mr. , & , And we'll have you know who you're Not Here,
00:00:00.000Our Lord God he don't make trash he makes awakening wonders and that's what we're being joined by now in the form of yes you are we are here together it surely must be friday this is what we call it friday yeah that's it now you've done well that's my favorite one yeah that's my favorite one of the days all the different ones they're all just made up though i always come to you when i want to know what day of the week it is yeah i'm like what day of the week is it today Asked me if NATO vetoed a Ukraine peace deal and how did the US find an extra 6, 6, 6 billion.
00:00:32.000They found sex, sex, sex in a 6, 6, 6 billion dollars for military and no wonder they keep failing, that the Pentagon keep failing those bloody audits.
00:01:12.000What I think was interesting about sort of Epstein is it's comparable to the Black Rock story that we did the other day.
00:01:19.000We know already, don't we, that this kind of corruption goes on and then a story like this breaks and it merely confirms what we already reckoned.
00:01:28.000If you're watching us on YouTube, we're only going to be here for about, I don't know, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, something like that because we're just absolutely We're actually a bit busy at the moment.
00:01:34.000And also, we do our broadcasting exclusively on Rumble.
00:02:18.000Hey, if you think we weren't about to mention killer aliens, you're mistaken, because we're going to be doing a deep presentation on those killer aliens.
00:02:24.000You lot, do you think it's a distraction?
00:02:27.000Do you think the CIA are meddling with us?
00:02:28.000Because a lot of our sources, and we've got good sources actually, Say that the CIA, the deep state, don't want this stuff coming out and that it's epochal and it's seismic and it's paradigm shifting.
00:02:39.000So if you think that they're just using this stuff as a distraction from, I don't know, did Joe Biden take that money?
00:03:20.000Now, we asked you a minute ago which congressperson solicited Epstein for donations.
00:03:26.000Hopefully it's not someone who's incredibly smug, pious, pompous, and willing to talk to groundbreaking, award-winning journalists like Michael Schellenberger and Matt Taibbi like this scum of the earth.
00:04:52.000I believe in your right to disagree with me.
00:04:54.000I believe in our right to find new mutual systems of consensual governance.
00:05:00.000What I don't believe in is calling Matt Taibbi and Schellenberger a couple of flyby nights and charlatans, which any of you that attended the show last night will know they simply are not and could not be.
00:05:10.000And then, knowing that you yourself have solicited donations from Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Gates' former buddy, we can't even tell you what Epstein did on YouTube because we would get demonetized, but you know because you're an awakened wonder.
00:05:25.000But also, you know, she was talking about Mark Tovey and Michael Schellenberg as releasing cherry-picked out-of-context emails, and basically, as you say, calling them so-called journalists, when she essentially is a lie, is a lying, she is lying!
00:05:48.000But she actually did, because we've got emails that have come through this case of JP Morgan versus the Virgin Islands, which is going on at the moment.
00:06:56.000Because I'll tell you this, this is a bit of news that we're not supposed to report but we will because we love you, because we respect you, because we believe in your ability to discern truth from fiction, take a bit of a joke, have a laugh, recreate, create new systems of government, thank the old order for establishing commercialism, commodification, centralised media and government models, say your time is done now, we're going to decentralise, we're going to end this gargantuan experiment, this gigantist model that's gotten out of control, this tumorous Horrible metastasization of our value system that you have undertaken.
00:07:51.000We already know the situation with like Boris Johnson that was reported in Ukrainian newspaper that Boris Johnson went over in April 2022 to discourage Ukraine from going ahead with this peace deal.
00:08:00.000So Putin's not saying anything that is like totally we haven't heard about before.
00:08:28.000But also do you think he did have a peace deal and that the West scuppered it?
00:08:31.000But let me ask you this simple question.
00:08:34.000What possible motivation could Western governments and their commercial sponsors in the military-industrial complex have for prolonging a war?
00:08:44.000It's not like there's recently been a war in Afghanistan that went on for ages and ages and ages and basically achieved nothing and that we now know was basically an attempt to siphon taxpayer monies into the hands of the military-industrial complex.
00:08:58.000Like, when we're talking about surveillance and all that stuff, and we're saying how the deep state has turned in on itself like a souffle made of corruption, what we often say is that the reason it's done that is because they've solved the problem of terrorism, right?
00:09:11.000They've solved terrorism now, because you don't hear about it, do you?
00:09:53.000Once we got rid of all of our data, once that was all bundled up by commercial enterprises, then sold back to the Deep State, it's another story we're going to be bringing you soon.
00:10:01.000It's going to knock your knickers down, mate, because what we found out is that the Deep State are using taxpayer dollars to acquire from commercial entities your private information.
00:10:11.000But look, we've got so much to tell you, it's difficult, gal.
00:10:35.000Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Football is Nice with me, Russell Brand.
00:10:47.000Today I've dispatched with Hull's favourite son, Gareth Roy, in favour of British entrepreneur, broadcaster, author, iconoclast and disruptor, Simon Jordan, who by the age of 32 had built a company from nothing.
00:11:01.000He sold it for $95 million, bought Crystal Palace Football Club, which is a type of football team almost in London.
00:11:07.000He's the best-selling author of Be Careful What You Wish For, Well, now co-host of the Daily Show on Talk Sport in the UK, which I've had the great privilege of appearing on, where his opinions, views, willingness to confront the establishment and ordinary platitudinous orthodoxy has bought him legions of fans, many people calling him a kind of peroxide
00:11:31.000Paxman, the Tucker Carlson of sport. Please welcome to Football is Nice, live on Rumble.
00:11:40.000If you're a member of Locals, press the red button right now. You can join us on Locals,
00:11:42.000you can pose questions to Simon Jordan. It's Simon Jordan, it's Simon, that's who it is,
00:11:47.000it's Simon Jordan. Hello. 95 million dollars. Is that what it was that you sold your business for?
00:11:52.000No, it was about $136 million at the time.
00:12:00.000So I was, the reasons why people are sitting there gawping at their phones and doing nothing else besides sitting in their mum's bedrooms with their pants around their ankles sending out rude messages over cyber optics is because of people like me.
00:12:11.000As I voyaged out here into the country I saw a little signpost saying Medieval Jousting.
00:12:18.000I assume that's not a metaphor from what I'm about to experience is it?
00:12:21.000We're so deeply ensconced in rural Britain that Medieval Jousting is the frontier of entertainment here, the apex.
00:12:29.000That's what we do out in the... It's an interesting little setup.
00:12:32.000As I came wandering up here and saw the studio I thought it was Get a bit more on mic, it ain't as good as your radio.
00:12:38.000I expected Felicity Kendall to come bowling out from The Good Life and get mugged by Richard Bryars on the way in.
00:12:44.000You could get mugged by a cosy sitcom.
00:13:07.000Which ain't... That's a rare treat, because I've always been someone who divides opinions.
00:13:14.000I've accepted that, and as part of Because if you're dividing opinions it means you're moving across echo chambers, moving into different spaces where people can relate or disagree in equal measure.
00:13:28.000Marmite, for those of you watching this in the United States of America, is a disgusting yeast-based paste that people- That you get to smear.
00:13:45.000America, they care about Australia even less than they care- There was a brief moment with Paul Hogan, who you're not dissimilar to, let's face it.
00:14:48.000Or, yeah, a cross between Catweasel, which the American audience will get no relevance to, with Catweasel and Worzel Gummidge.
00:14:53.000But you can imagine rocking into the ballrooms of Premier League football clubs at the average age of a chairman being about 65, and that comes wandering through the door.
00:15:00.000It must have been a wonderful greeting that I got.
00:15:02.000Because you would have been talking to, like, sort of, Ken Bates!
00:15:21.000I don't know about global corporate entity, but a global entertainment opportunity.
00:15:24.000Which will then maybe morph as you suggest.
00:15:27.000Why do you think that is an important distinction?
00:15:29.000Because I think that your propensity to want to make everything about some corporate elitism isn't necessarily as prevalent in football as it is in other sectors, but there is an element of it and we can perhaps kick that around in our discussions, but I'm not entirely sure that your little revolution that you want to go on sometimes is necessarily as prevalent in football as you'd like it to be.
00:15:47.000Where do you think the game is heading when we have more and more state ownership or de facto state ownerships of top flight clubs?
00:15:55.000Do you not think that it is precisely the type of corporate gigantism that I'm describing elsewhere?
00:16:01.000Particularly when contrasted to the time where a kid from South London with nothing but a blonde bob and a dream could march into Sellyhurst Road and start telling Mark Bright what to do!
00:16:15.000Yeah, I mean the days of the cook, the candlestick maker, the baker owning football clubs are probably long gone.
00:16:20.000But that's the world that we wanted to create.
00:16:22.000Football was no different from any other parts of society that's susceptible to globalism and globalization and the opportunities that it brings because it's such a hook, a conduit, an anchor for so many different things that as much as I don't like it and the idea of nation states The subterfuge of people suggesting that the acquisitions of clubs like Newcastle United aren't nation states because they've got sovereign wealth funds that ultimately fund nation states needs to be debated.
00:16:54.000But if you look at recent terms, if you look at America, they don't allow that sort of acquisition of what people would consider to be Societal and community assets ie sports clubs.
00:18:09.000There's an arm's-length relationship between Mohammed bin Salman, who's the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and this sovereign wealth fund whose sole purpose in life is to advance the financial benefits for the nation is not a nation state yet you find out in
00:18:26.000another realm in America that Live Golf which is funded by PIF has made the case that it is a
00:18:33.000nation state. Yeah so it's interesting isn't it? Yeah there's a lot of things I want to pick up on Simon
00:18:37.000and what you've told me mate. Firstly the PIF have taken over four domestic league clubs over
00:18:41.000there in Saudi Arabia making them some national assets you'll be aware of that. That's how
00:18:46.000The moment a business in Saudi Arabia becomes successful what happens is the state requisitions
00:18:51.000it. I see. That's how they work. And with the acquisition the de facto acquisition of a club
00:18:56.000like Newcastle and with the you know the potential for United to become owned perhaps in a comparable
00:19:02.000way by Qatar with City already owned by Abu Dhabi and this for me isn't about the geographic location
00:19:08.000of the you know the fact that they're all Middle Eastern entities because I wonder what the
00:19:11.000distinction is between state ownership and corporate ownership when it's a gigantic
00:19:16.000corporation like you know FSG or comparable like entities.
00:19:20.000But one has a commercial agenda the other has an influence agenda.
00:19:23.000one is slightly more different than the other because if you're looking at the
00:19:26.000Middle Eastern guys and neither one of us are sitting here from a xenophobic
00:19:28.000position we're just questioning the validity and the motivation and the
00:19:33.000methodology being deployed and so you look at someone like the middle and I
00:19:37.000have no objection to anybody trying to advance their society anybody being able
00:19:42.000to participate in anything like sport because we don't have a God-given right
00:19:46.000in Europe or North America to suggest that we own sports and sports can't
00:19:49.000evolve but when they're being used as a vehicle some would say for sports
00:19:54.000washing to legitimize their their their regimes through parts of the world that
00:19:58.000don't accept them or to go to your point to advance the industrial opportunity
00:20:04.000because they want to turn away from having to be sort of funded by the only
00:20:07.000thing that can be funded by which is underneath the sand which is oil and
00:20:10.000turn it into a hub or a commercial vehicle for different opportunities
00:20:15.000So that goes to your narrative about the fact there's a corporate agenda behind it rather than just an acceptance of embracing a different opportunity for a different part of the world to compete.
00:20:24.000And whilst it's clear from your description that one of those propositions is potentially more nefarious and more vast, my perspective is a romantic one Simon and it's based on the, this is something I really would It's the idea that somehow football still encompasses a sense of deep community connection, that people feel like they own their football clubs, that they love their football clubs, and that football can present us with these moments of incredible romance, whether it's something as potentially trivial but yet beautiful as David Moyes giving his medal to his father after West Ham won the most important European Cup recently, becoming champions of Europe, one of the most important of the trophies available.
00:21:07.000Like, what I suppose I'm saying is, is that it feels to me that even though a Super League was mooted, then rebutted because of fan outrage a little while ago, that if we see this kind of corporatism continue, does it become inevitable that the globalisation of the game will eventually...
00:21:24.000It breaks the links between community values.
00:21:27.000The next step of that dislocation will become games being played elsewhere, franchises being moved around as we see in the United States of America with their football teams and pocket teams or whatever.
00:21:38.000At what point did it stop being the thing that presumably motivated you?
00:21:42.000Because I bet for you, why did you buy Palace and not Millwall or Fulham?
00:21:47.000Presumably it's a romantic connection to your father.
00:21:50.000My father played for the Muppets but I'd grown up 100 yards away from the stadium and it was the club that I wanted to
00:21:55.000And also, Russell, it's because I saw a commercial opportunity.
00:22:00.000Because, you know, nobody goes into football, no matter how philanthropic they feel about it, to lose money.
00:22:06.000There will always be an end game, whether it's your exit strategy that gets you back the money you've invested and
00:22:10.000maybe takes some money out of it for you.
00:22:12.000And if you've done well and everyone else has done well as a result of it and the club has prospered, there's nothing wrong with that.
00:22:16.000There's nothing wrong with people making money from football.
00:22:18.000No one seems to have a problem with football players or managers or agents getting paid a king's fortune.
00:22:21.000Anyone moots the idea that someone that actually owns a football club should get some money out of it, they should be flogged at dawn.
00:22:27.000But the notion that you're advancing is that we are beginning to move into a territory where you're taking away the grassroots and the values of a football club that was built from years gone past when the factory workers used to turn out at one o'clock in the afternoon and three o'clock kickoff times are put there to be able to meet the expectations of the people that wanted to watch football.
00:22:45.000And then you've got the other side of the argument which is the romantic side against the reality of what fans actually want to see football become.
00:23:06.000Do you want to have the earthy football club that Bob Lord once presided over in 1960s in Burnley when he was the town mill baron and everyone went to him with their cloth caps to watch the football team?
00:23:17.000Or do you want this wonderful, dynamic, gold dust orientated, 360 degrees, seven day a week, 24-hour access to sport?
00:23:26.000I lived in America for two or three years and the tribalism, albeit it exists, it's not steeped quite so much in the culture and society of Western Europe in terms of specifically England where you've got a football club.
00:23:43.000A town often thrives and sometimes survives By the very nature of having a successful football club into it because it reflects aspiration, it brings commerce in there, it brings people coming in to spend money in that town because the team's doing well or not doing so well and obviously the knock-on effects of that have a diametrically opposed effect.
00:24:03.000But there is this balance I've often thought and I would disappear into your sort of romantic saccharine sentimental world of we should have a blue you know the blue plaques that we have celebrating grade two listed buildings above a football stadium suggesting that these things need to be governed by a different set of parameters.
00:24:20.000But when you start flying players around the world in private jets to get their toenails clipped and you start paying people £500,000 a week the dynamics change and it's about trying to manage the evolution Alongside the aspiration, alongside the reality of what people see it to be.
00:24:36.000I don't think anyone, I'm sure some people would, but the argument I'm advancing is not that there's anything with enlightened self-interest, a young man acquiring Crystal Palace both out of a sentimental attachment to the club and reverence perhaps for his father, love of the game, natural love of football.
00:25:11.000If ego is part of the qualification, then you should own the entire Premier League!
00:25:19.000So what I'm saying, right, is, is there a point where the convergence of these two ideas,
00:25:25.000one idealistic and about a love of the game, and sort of just the basic way that the free
00:25:31.000market operates, return a profit from a business, become so sort of capsized, so overtly metastasized
00:25:39.000that you can no longer discern the original community romantic connection?
00:25:43.000At what point, like we experienced during the COVID period where fans were present and
00:25:47.000the economic model still works, but does the ideological model still work?
00:25:51.000That's where I'm trying to get to is...
00:25:53.000Tell me what visuality it did was, because what you saw was this enormous rush to watch
00:25:57.000television and it's enormous appreciation.
00:26:00.000Ironically how important fans were and the moment they get back in the grounds is how can we control them?
00:26:04.000Don't let them go on the pitches and celebrate with the players and ultimately players should be distanced from actually even engaging with the fans.
00:26:09.000So there's this juxtapose of actually how football views what I consider to be the most valuable asset that it's got which is the people to watch it.
00:26:17.000Yeah, and that, in a sense, we don't watch it just passively, we participate in it.
00:26:23.000And the thing that I'm sort of circling around is, at what point does this process of sanitization that we see elsewhere in culture, commodification that we see elsewhere in culture, corporatization where, in a sense, the product, you know, if we're going to call it that, No longer has its original value.
00:26:40.000At what point do we say, shouldn't we intervene?
00:26:44.000Because we can see where this is heading.
00:26:47.000This is heading to a global Super League, where games are played in the state of the highest bidder, where it don't matter if you're Luton or whatever top-flight franchise you are, you can be uprooted and planted wherever.
00:27:02.000And what I suppose I still feel in football, Is it because it is a vehicle for community is a vehicle for sort of a version of tribalism that's safe.
00:27:11.000It's a vehicle for romanticism, heroes, etc.
00:27:14.000But it's also a way of plotting the way that the culture is changing and in a way that I think requires regulation.
00:27:22.000And yet when we spoke before you talk about the player, you know, salary caps and all you know, I'll yield that I'm not bothered in a way.
00:27:26.000You can't regulate emotional relationships can you?
00:27:28.000You can't regulate the way people perceive the value that they attach to something which you know despite Bill Shankly's you know observations about football not being life and death it's more important than that.
00:27:39.000People will engage with sport the way that they want to and there's one thing you can't do is control that.
00:27:44.000The product itself, and the uniqueness certainly of the English game, is very different than any other part of the world, even other European countries.
00:28:26.000But I also believe that there's an approach to the way that football should work that Because it's a collective business.
00:28:33.000The trickle-down economics that we often hear about in other parts of the world that are supposed to benefit societies really don't ever work.
00:28:39.000But the trickle-down economics in football do affect it because what you pay people and what people cost at the very top end up landing at the bottom and the economics of football don't work that way.
00:28:49.000That's why there's an element of cynicism.
00:28:50.000About the Man City model because what they've done is precisely what you advocate for which is recognizing the community.
00:28:56.000So they've gone in and they've regenerated the community alongside the football club.
00:28:59.000The football club's been the hook and they spent lots of money in Moss Side and regenerated this and made it valuable.
00:29:04.000Parts of the community feel more valued in terms of the investment into the structure and everyone goes how wonderful that is.
00:29:10.000But the objective behind that is not because Sheikh Mansour wanted to wander around Moss Side.
00:29:14.000It's because there's a vehicle here which indeed gives you legitimacy and validity and builds the relationships that they want to have by utilizing sports clubs and I'm slightly troubled by that.
00:29:28.000And I'm much more, I'm sort of like a Tom Berrington character out of Platoon, I don't need reality, I am reality, I see things for what they are.
00:29:35.000In terms of, look, let's look at it, let's look at the reality of what things can become, what things should become, and what they will become, and try and find a hybrid of the three.
00:29:44.000Because I feel that the biggest obstacle, the only way to prevent this globalised model where it will impact the fans emotional connections with clubs because I think ultimately what will happen and we witnessed a touch of this... The fans where?
00:29:57.000The indigenous to the location or this global audience that's now being brought around the world to see football in this country?
00:30:04.000Because I would say a less cynical model would be to build grassroots clubs in all these various territories so there is a geographical connection between the fans that love the game.
00:30:17.000You've got 92 clubs occupying a very small country and you've got overpopulation in certain parts of the country in terms of football clubs.
00:30:24.000Most parts of the country are represented.
00:30:49.000Well I have a basis because only 14 Premier League clubs would need to vote for something like that and like we're approaching that number where we're going to have comparable intentions.
00:31:00.000Explain to me the logic of XYZ club moving from XYZ location to another one.
00:31:08.000Okay well give me an example of what that looks like.
00:31:10.000Well, because there are these new emergent models, for example, it would be unthinkable a little while ago for the MLS to participate in the funding of the Messi transfer in the way that they did.
00:31:21.000The league itself, commercial sponsors and the club come together to acquire a player because they all acknowledge that the benefits will be spread across the globe.
00:31:29.000So as this model continues to evolve, capitalism doesn't go backwards.
00:31:36.000They'll have more commercial partners.
00:31:38.000The MLS model isn't particularly working, is it?
00:31:40.000It's working for the owners, but it's not working for the sport.
00:31:42.000And that's the only people it needs to work for, is the owners.
00:31:44.000That's why, in fact, the argument that I am trying to undergird here, Simon, is that if we came close to creating a Super League, it didn't work because the fans bought it.
00:31:53.000They're obviously not going to go away, as I've heard you say on the radio.
00:31:55.000It didn't work because there wasn't enough money put up by JP Morgan.
00:31:58.000But they'll refine it, and they'll find ways to make it work.
00:32:00.000But did you think there was anything wrong with that, then?
00:32:03.000I do mate because I think that what this is my I'm Are you happy with your team playing in Europe?
00:32:10.000Do you know what I think this is where I think it should go it should move we should this is this is set in a broader cultural framework you're gonna have to let me explain this don't interrupt I'm interested in hearing from you I'm only saying this stuff so as I can make sure I want you to understand the nuance of what I'm saying so that I can get the nuance of your response what I think should happen is that there should be ownership, fan ownership of clubs.
00:32:31.000In fact, this is a big political point I've been mulling over for ages. Like Germany. I'll take
00:33:06.000Liverpool will be owned by Liverpool fans and it's going to be taken back by the state in the same way you could with municipal assets and then collectively owned by the community.
00:33:28.000Because it's never been nationalised before, so we wouldn't re-nationalise them.
00:33:30.000You'd re-nationalise them for the first time.
00:33:32.000We'd be re-nationalising some addresses.
00:33:33.000How would that funding model work for the football clubs?
00:33:37.000What do you mean by the funding model?
00:33:38.000Well, because you've got a situation now where the genie's out of the bottle.
00:33:41.000The economics of football are at such a level, right, that ultimately, fan ownership, which I don't have a particular problem with, besides the fact that it becomes too emotive, too visceral in its decision-making process, and it doesn't make much commercial sense.
00:34:02.000What this is addressing is the fact that we have turned everything into a commodity and this is an attempt to redress that phenomena and reverse it.
00:35:12.000So we'd have this wonderful model in the UK which the guys on the bus with you would have this viewpoint that your sentiment has some validity to it.
00:35:23.000No one else in Europe would perform that and then we'd be the sick man of European football on that basis.
00:35:29.000Well, I can see where you might stand on an argument like Brexit based on some of the rhetoric.
00:35:49.000Instead of going about it in things people don't really understand or care about or can't connect to, find ways that they actually connect.
00:38:10.000I'm not in the camp of wanting to see Premier League games being played in America.
00:38:14.000I understand why other leagues want to do that because they need to do it because they can't keep up with the financial juggernaut that is the Premier League which by the way hasn't even scratched the surface of the opportunity it can present.
00:38:24.000Or for broadcasting yeah because we've got a situation where you've got a product which is in demand you've got a model exists over here which is a VOD platform in Netflix which has got a market cap of 250 billion and you've got and built its business primarily on other people's content you've got the Premier League that could build the same model reduce the cost of football to people by the very nature of the volumes it can achieve worldwide and multiply its revenues by factors of six seven eight nine and ten And then what you've got is you've got a product which is delivered to people when they want it, how they want it, where they want it, at a price they're prepared to consume and everybody wins.
00:38:56.000Then it goes against my argument then of course that I want football to suddenly suppress the expenditure on not what you call the poor hard done by footballers I'm targeting to get their wages brought down.
00:39:07.000I'm just trying to get substance into the game and a game to be supported by its own merits rather than Daddy Warbucks.
00:39:15.000Pop in with an agenda whether that be Simon Jordan 20 years ago because he made 100 million quid and wants to buy his local football club or what they buy Sheikh Mansour because he has it for a different reason.
00:39:25.000It needs to be sustainability and at this moment in time we've got the wild west and that's why I have an aberration for the MLS model.
00:39:33.000But I also have a bit of a disdain for it.
00:39:35.000Because the MS Model is a group of owners getting together.
00:39:54.000The other side of it, it makes it the world that you're advocating for, which is it loses the competitivity of it, it loses the objectivity of it, and it makes it all about money.
00:40:06.000I may well be in the land of brand but I'm still slightly commercial in my thinking.
00:40:11.000I don't think there's anything wrong with the entrepreneurial spirit.
00:40:14.000I think there's nothing wrong with capitalism either but I think there's everything wrong with irresponsible capitalism.
00:40:19.000Yeah and I think that's where we are and I think that we're going to see it play out in sport.
00:40:21.000I've got a question that's on a slightly different tack now but I think you'll be well into it.
00:40:25.000With the success of Wrexham based around like Ryan Reynolds acquisition and the way it's played out on Disney and again sort of tapping into the romance of the game and I think any Wrexham fan would say it's like the best thing that's happened to them and they love it and all that kind of stuff.
00:40:43.000Is that now Wrexham, not because of the merit of their football club, although they've done very well getting into the league, but because of the paraphernalia of fame and celebrity, they've entered into a new domain.
00:40:54.000And I know you know an awful lot about boxing and you're a big boxing fan.
00:40:57.000It made me think of like 10, 20 years ago, if you're fighting in Vegas, if you're showcased as an elite boxer, you've earned that on merit and you've got the scars to prove it.
00:41:06.000Well now you've got the phenomena of like Conor McGregor fighting Floyd Mayweather, you've got YouTube boxers fighting for millions KSI and Logan Paul and all that stuff.
00:41:16.000Is there not a danger that the sort of almost the essence of sport which is meritocracy is being sort of eroded that you can create these Frankenstein clubs, these entertainment products, it's not an attack on Wrexham, it's in a sense I'm coupling it with that trend.
00:41:30.000Because years ago you wouldn't have got a couple of like sort of people that were unrecognisable in the context of the sport.
00:41:36.000It's a clever digital deal where they're using their reputations to enhance the opportunity and make a movie about it.
00:41:42.000That's what they're doing, really, aren't they?
00:41:43.000Netflix is going to fund them, I suspect, and they're going to build a television series out of it, and that will take them so far.
00:41:48.000And then when, you know, you could watch Salford, you could watch The Class of 92 and all that went with that, and of course the stardust that goes with Beckham and gigs and Skolls and Gary Neville and that mob.
00:41:58.000and see that Salford were manufactured into a situation but it doesn't alter the fact that the argument that you would make which is the community that they represent are delighted they're thrilled that their football club is back on the on the map now Brian Reynolds and his mate will go so far and when it eventually lands in their pockets that they've got put their hands in their pockets to go through the gears because meritocracy will still be the end game Wrexham will be the movie of the week right for a period of time And when it gets a bit tough in League One, if they ever get there, and you've got to start funding a football club properly, then that may run its course.
00:42:31.000But if West Ham... Sorry mate, comparison between Wrexham and West Ham, not a good one.
00:42:37.000If Wrexham were to find a different way of delivering an outcome, because Whether we're in a digital age or whether they're using other aspects of the opportunity available to them to build a football club, still at the centre of it is a football club and a community.
00:42:52.000If that team were to go through the levels and get in the Premier League it would be another story, a different strand of the football story that needs to evolve.
00:43:01.000We're in a generation now that consumes what it looks at and what it reads through things like this, mobile telephones.
00:43:07.000Once upon a time you used to call the kitchen wall to speak to someone, you don't now do you?
00:43:18.000I'm not sure that we've lost too much.
00:43:20.000I still think you've got massive engagement.
00:43:23.000You know, I do media stuff where you're dealing with fans and their emotional investment on a daily basis.
00:43:28.000And I don't see it lessening, I see it heightening.
00:43:31.000I also see the entitlement of fans heightening, which I'm not sure is a good thing.
00:43:34.000I wonder if this is like a sort of a frantic and fearful twitching corpse as the sense that this game is being corporatized and owned elsewhere dawns upon the sort of collective unconsciousness that something is rotten in Denmark.
00:43:50.000I've got a few things I want to like flesh out.
00:43:51.000They're all starting to tie together a little bit now.
00:43:53.000Because what, say like when Wimbledon went through the leagues, FA Cup Final, Big Liverpool, Culture Club versus the, you know, crazy gang.
00:44:01.000Until I turfed them out of Sillis Park.
00:44:02.000Actually, alright, you keep mentioning that.
00:44:03.000You obviously want that followed up on.
00:44:38.000It's my football club, it's my manager, I'll fire whoever I want, but yeah, on a tangent.
00:44:41.000Go over to the old Bob, a little comb, and then out the fucking door, tack it, tack that up.
00:44:46.000As opposed to the Jesus of Nazareth look, yeah?
00:44:49.000Like, see, like, sort of like the Wrexham is what, like, you know, Wrexham and I, again, I'm not trying to diss Wrexham fans or take their money.
00:45:24.000But now, it's almost like, you know, a sort of a construction.
00:45:28.000And my concern is this, is if it becomes, excuse me, a construction rather than a reality, it's going to lose the thing that it has in the first place.
00:45:36.000That we're going to, it's not going to mean anything anymore.
00:45:38.000We're killing the golden goose, to put it in a simple phrase.
00:45:41.000Again, I think you're being idealistic.
00:46:08.000So what we're saying is is that Wrexham went through the gears by one methodology or another And this instance it's got two Hollywood superstars that can use their digital imagery to leverage the revenues that you can get from digital spaces like you guys are doing here.
00:46:22.000And you build a club that goes there and lands in the Premier League.
00:46:27.000Would that be less of a story than constantly watch Manchester City win the league with Middle Eastern money or Manchester United because it's steeped in 60 years of heritage and legacy and an ability to be able to print money for itself.
00:46:40.000Would it be less of a diminishing or would it be diminishing the football story?
00:46:58.000I'm attacking the commodification of the sport in various ways and seeing if it's somehow stripping away its essence, gutting it somehow, hollowing it out.
00:47:06.000Every time you stick something on television, including yourself, you're making it a commodity for someone else's benefit.
00:47:12.000You sit here doing your broadcast because a particular platform wants to give you an opportunity so they can monetize you.
00:47:23.000It depends what is the objective, what is the aim, what is the goal.
00:47:26.000If the aim is always and solely to make money, and remember we've touched upon enlightened self-interest earlier in the conversation, Ideally, there's a kind of synthesis of, I have a purpose, I'm pursuing meaning, oh wow, I'm earning a few quid out of it.
00:47:39.000That seems to me like that's not in the same domain as stripping away the meaning of something that's sort of valuable, and I would argue even possibly sacred.
00:47:48.000And this is where I'm trying to get to.
00:47:49.000Is this the end of fairy tales in football?
00:47:52.000Could we ever have a little Wimbledon again?
00:47:55.000Let's start with the We've just had it with Luton, haven't we?
00:47:58.000We've just had Luton, the ultimate fairy tale.
00:48:02.000You know, Eric Morecambe, great comedian, I'm sure you appreciate, has indexed Luton many years ago, a club that was always punched above its weight.
00:48:09.000Drops out of the league, gets put together by a fans group, have values like they won't attach himself to betting companies because they don't believe in the principle of betting money going into sport.
00:48:18.000And they've built a club that's now got promoted with 10,000 fans back into the Premier League.
00:48:22.000Are you worried that somewhere along the line they might change their agenda?
00:48:26.000Are you suggesting that the criteria that you just outlined, it somehow makes it a worthwhile, valuable story that the connection to the fans that espouse in them values makes it better than a globalist corporate entity that won't confront its charges of illegal activity?
00:48:46.000You're sort of forecasting this dystopian future where football becomes something that is simply an end game for people with Nefarious motives or alternative intentions.
00:48:59.000Very few people have got an intention simply to do it for the love of football.
00:49:03.000Everyone wants to get something from it.
00:49:05.000So with that in mind, I've just given you a case in point where Luton, in our leagues, have proven the point that there's still the value of football being built in a certain way for the people, from the people, because of the people.
00:49:19.000And we don't lose the vibrancy of football.
00:49:24.000By the nature of ownership models that might have different intentions.
00:49:28.000We muddy the messages sometimes and we allow the broadcast world to fulfill their outcomes when we're constantly being listening to broadcasters pumping societal messages through football.
00:49:41.000You and I have discussed this on other platforms about the nature of football being leveraged for other people's agendas and how that should be or could be or would be or shouldn't be.
00:49:53.000I think you should be really critically alert to the various ways that agendas play out, including financially, including the agenda of state ownership of these football clubs.
00:50:03.000But money makes the world go round Russell.
00:50:05.000It's a representative and symbolic system.
00:50:07.000Don't you dare sit here and say you're doing this for charity or the things you've done in your life have been for charity.
00:50:10.000You do them because ultimately money is the commodity that fuels the world.
00:50:14.000So we all need to grow up a little bit.
00:50:15.000The only word I would query there is the word ultimately because we are not yet at the point of fully understanding the many miraculous ways that I express my intentions.
00:50:27.000No not definitively because like probably like you I do what I do for a variety of reasons and but I began doing what I do out of love, bloody vanity you know I mean there's a sort of a complex set of motivations but at this point in my life of course I require I'm quite idealistic.
00:51:35.000Because of the commercialisation Simon, I suppose.
00:51:37.000I suppose that's what I'm... Yeah but you love to watch football, dawn till dusk if you can.
00:51:42.000And watching sport through whichever medium you choose, whichever way you want to.
00:51:46.000And with that comes a commercial scenario because you're going to watch it through a medium that's commercially motivated.
00:51:52.000So with that in mind how do you square that particular circle?
00:51:55.000Well we're arguing sort of a lot about economics and I think in a sense there's certainly, yeah we're debating, there's a great deal of validity in what you're saying and there's no question... Is there a reason why you've taken your shoes and socks off while we're debating?
00:52:08.000I got a bit unbothered didn't I a minute ago?
00:52:09.000And also I really thought what I wanted to do... Does it help your thinking?
00:52:24.000Simon, no, this is what I want to say, is that those currently necessary commercial opportunities that are predicated on the emotion that football in particular solicits, cannot be allowed to kill the host, which is currently what I fear could Potentially happen so someone has to advocate for the other side the idealistic side of the argument which includes things like fan ownership investigation interrogation of ownership models and assurances that these clubs will remain connected to the communities that built them and ultimately the value of the fans will be respected.
00:53:01.000That's what they're trying to achieve by the independent regulator suggestion in this country which I think is for the birds and I think any business any industry that's regulated in the end is Hmm isn't a particularly good industry to be in and we have now reached a point Russell whether we like it or we don't like it you and I and again I use the expression I don't apologize for the genies out of the bottle we're not going to unwind this we're not going to change the economic model all we're going to be able to do is perhaps halt it.
00:53:29.000Hold it in its tracks but even then we've now got Saudi Arabia wanting to pay footballers 200 million pounds a year to go over there and play because they want to build their leagues up.
00:53:43.000I understand why you think there's a validity in your thinking that there's a loss of the core principles of the game on what they were supposed to be.
00:53:52.000But I'm not sure, when you see the emotion, when you watch Sheffield Wednesday, for those North American fans that don't know who they are, they're a club in Yorkshire that's got great heritage, when you watch Sheffield Wednesday play Peterborough in the League One semi-final with 32,000 rabid fans in a stadium and the emotions that outpour as a result of a game having a ridiculous outcome, Do you then still worry about the fact that sport isn't valued in the way that it should be, isn't going in the right direction?
00:54:24.000I think that they value it and my fear is that it's that emotional connection has been parasited and that football means a lot about class, it means a lot about identity, it means a lot about geography, masculinity, unity, teamwork and all of those things are very real and very beautiful and I'd actually go so far as saying there's something sacred in it.
00:54:45.000Okay, what do you mean football says a lot about That these clubs have a historic and real relationship with the communities that they come from.
00:54:54.000But we've got gentrification in every town now, so the fact that people... That's not great either.
00:54:59.000But that's the reality of economics isn't it?
00:55:01.000The reality of economics is a political matter, it's not like, it's not meteorology, it's not happening naturally, it's happening as a result of decisions, consensus and a lack of democracy.
00:55:12.000If you were living in America in certain times during the scenarios where people were in redline districts, they would have cried out for gentrification where ultimately the income streams could have gotten bigger and people could have improved their own social standing.
00:55:25.000And so with that in mind, You're looking at a class structure of saying that football once upon a time was an old geezer with a rattle and a cloth cap going to the game.
00:55:35.000And the next generation of football supporters aren't cut from that particular cloth.
00:55:39.000We have a different generation following behind us.
00:55:41.000I'm not entirely sure that generation doesn't send me screaming to bed at night thinking they're going to look after me in my dotage, but that's a different discussion.
00:55:48.000But the class argument I think is becoming less and less prevalent.
00:55:52.000Other parts of what you've just said might be relevant but the fact that football is still steeped in a working class mentality is probably not.
00:55:58.000Rugby and other sports may be but we're not moving from football into cricket where cricket has a certain attitude or cricket into tennis but there is a different social classification now of football fans.
00:56:09.000I suppose what I'm encircling and analysing is what is this value that football appears to herald?
00:56:16.000What is this secular ceremony that appears to be able to evoke such deep feeling and such deep connection?
00:56:30.000So with the flip side of the coin is... I bet if we change the subject You'd still find me just as ravishing.
00:56:37.000Now, Beth, we changed the subject to another commodity that you would alter your perspective.
00:56:41.000Like if we start talking about, I don't know, entertainment or music or something, and I'm not going to, I want to talk about another aspect of football, but I feel that sometimes because of your personal involvement with the sport, you find peculiarities that prevent you applying your ordinary principles to this matter.
00:56:58.000Also I think sometimes you're a contrarian.
00:57:02.000The difference between you and me on the subject matter is I come from an educated point of view and you're coming from a hypothetical, idealistic one where you don't know the nuts and bolts of it.
00:57:10.000You're looking at it from an idealistic point of view.
00:57:21.000That's the The opposite of objectivity, that's a deepened subjectivity that's unable to consider a variety of perspectives and synthesize them.
00:57:48.000Did you read his book called The Unfortunate Truth About Racism?
00:57:53.000I don't even read the books I write, let alone other people's.
00:57:56.000Now, Simon, when I used to write For The Guardian, one of my mates noticed that I always ended up writing more about managers than any other aspect of the game.
00:58:08.000And I think that somehow in managers we find, you know, obviously leadership in some ways, father figures.
00:58:14.000And I wonder if you talk for a while on what the, what is the real observable, measurable power of a manager?
00:58:23.000Once the Athletic did this piece, right, where they They said if you when you take out the super exceptional
00:58:27.000the exceptions your cluffs your guardiola's, whatever They said that it results off an aggregate out almost the
00:58:34.000same regardless if you have this manager that manager or no manager at all
00:58:37.000So what are we talking about when we say like when we talk about greatness in managers? What are those qualities?
00:58:42.000What are those abilities and who has it these days and what is it when they lose it?
00:58:47.000What goes on when they they have it for a bit then lose it?
00:58:50.000Well, I often have thought having spent time with lots of managers and sometimes listen to these so-called Churchill
00:58:56.000Ian speeches that they give And found myself deeply unaroused by the very nature of
00:59:00.000what they're saying I don't mean sexually, I mean in terms of a response.
00:59:18.000So you're not managing from here to here, you're just managing from here to here.
00:59:22.000And that's where the managers step in.
00:59:25.000And this balance between leaders lead, Russell, you know you can create better people and you can create people that can operate at certain levels but natural leaders have this ability to be able to communicate in such a fashion that inspires people.
00:59:40.000to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily be prepared to do and that means operating at a high level all the time even when they don't feel like it and the more you've got footballers being paid what I would consider to be F off money so they can end up telling people to F off because they're in a situation where they can control their own destiny one thing you control people through is finances the other thing you can control people through is by motivating them fear cultures of of excellence But there's no one-size-fits-all for managers.
01:00:10.000Guardiola, some people would say, could Guardiola manage Scarborough and get the same outcomes?
01:00:16.000I think probably he could because I think he has the ability to be able to extract the very best from people by setting the highest standards, maintaining those standards, never deviating from those standards.
01:00:26.000And being across the subject matter, being deep in the detail, being a constant evolver, not standing still, not believing that what he knew yesterday is going to be prevalent for tomorrow.
01:00:36.000And I think people like Guardiola are real exceptions.
01:00:39.000I think a lot of the football managers around, and I use this term and I throw it around quite regularly and people don't particularly like it, but I think a lot of charlatans get away with murder and we do reward in sport too much mediocrity.
01:00:53.000But I think Managers are they're not often you know the funny thing you will think is that these managers are the strongest people in the world and often they're not they have the same doubts and the same need for support as anyone else does and there'll be people that say who motivates the motivator and that's where people like me that own football clubs come in and support managers there's a lot more of that going on than you would believe a lot more of owners that will provide that prop because in football
01:01:19.000It is this perverse, reverse sentiment of success in life has many fathers.
01:01:27.000But in football, success is an orphan.
01:01:29.000It has one person that's responsible for it, whereas failure has many fathers.
01:01:34.000So if you're successful as a football team, it'll be the manager, no one else.
01:01:37.000It'll be the manager that created that success.
01:01:40.000But if you fail at football, it'll be bleeding everybody that did it.
01:01:42.000The manager's not me, it's the players, it's the owner, it's the Lack of support from the fan base.
01:01:49.000But it's just the ability to be able, like anything, if you're not doing it and someone else is doing it for you, it's that ability to be able to impart to them the desire for them to do what they need to do to be successful.
01:02:04.000It's like that, again, to use a movie analogy, which I know you'll appreciate being a big movie star.
01:02:10.000It's like that scene out of The Untouchables where Sean Connery is talking to Kevin Costner about what are you prepared to do to get Capone?
01:02:18.000One of his, one of his guys brings a knife, one of your guys brings a gun, one of his guys goes to hospital, one of your guys goes to the morgue, what are you prepared to do to do to get Capone?
01:02:29.000And I would say what are you prepared to do to be successful and to be a top class manager whatever it takes and whatever you need to do whether that's managing up to the guy that you work for to get from him what you want Or it's managing down to the charges that you're responsible for or whether it's selecting people that work with you that are actually better than you at certain things and you have the comfort in your own space to be able to be the leader of those people even though they're better.
01:02:57.000I remember having a finance director work for me in one of these businesses that I owned and I said to him you know about doing something he said you do realize I'm a higher form of life I'm a qualified professional and I said that's wonderful But you fucking will work for me and I'm the Managing Director so we'll debate about what's a higher form of life in a different discussion.
01:03:10.000But it's all about giving people a reason to want to be successful and that may well just be by the very nature of the rewards that they get or it might well be by the nature of the pride that you're invoking them or the motivations that you give them to want to improve or keep changing the circumstances or have basic disciplines that you will not Acquiesce, sorry, you will not move from, you will not change, Pep Guardiola will not change his view about how he wants a player to play.
01:03:41.000David De Gea will go and make a mistake and the next thing he'll do is no longer play out from the back, he'll be launching balls up from the front.
01:03:48.000Pep Guardiola would not accept that he would make David de Gea perform at the level that he wanted to until such a time as he could and if he couldn't then it'd replace him you have to be ruthless you have to be fair you have to be equitable you have to be honest you have to be authentic you have to communicate with people you don't duck responsibility all of these things are the natural Attributes of a leader and there's not many of them about because people don't like to deal with confrontation because that's part of it they don't like to deal with being able to to be able to communicate in a way that sometimes means that you've got to find the balance between what you believe and what you need to say to somebody to get to where they need to get to and it's all of these things and it's sort of again alchemy that out of it comes a leader and it's about leadership when you walk in a room you go
01:05:00.000When you talk about being an identifier leader, it's exciting to me that there ain't a uniform set of immediately identifiable external characteristics that it could be someone that's relatively Conservative there's not always an immutable concept it morphs you know what I mean it's about what it you know a leader in one environment because there's different tools required if you're if you're the elite manager at the top of the Premier League you're managing guys that are all on 20 million pounds a year so you can't pull that trigger you've got to pull a different lever
01:05:36.000So your skill set is no less or no more than say Neil Warnock who managed for me in previous incarnations at Crystal Palace managing further down the pyramid and achieving an outcome of relative success by getting a group of disparate sort of hobo Hobo footballers being able to perform at a very high level
01:05:53.000and find themselves running through the pyramids.
01:05:55.000Taking a relatively recent and localized example, how do you get a situation where Roy Hodgson is able to
01:06:00.000return to Palace for the umpteenth time and get more success out of
01:06:04.000Palace than Vieira, who to all intents would look like the very model of a new emergent manager that's going to
01:06:48.000How do you get Hodgson to come in and revitalise Palace in that way?
01:06:54.000I think it's just sometimes it's nothing more simple than timing.
01:06:58.000I think there with the Vieira situation I think there was a dissatisfaction with certain coaching methods of the player to stop listening if you want to be specific and explicit about Vieira and there was a lot more of the Emperor's New Clothes in that appointment.
01:07:14.000It looked good for a period of time and when the reality of it becomes more prevalent and the players start to go Um, and Roy comes back in, he's comfortable.
01:07:23.000He says sensible things, he does sensible things with players.
01:07:26.000Um, and he had a better squad of players than the one he left.
01:07:28.000The reasons why Roy Hodgson left Palace was because it needed to evolve.
01:07:31.000And the brand of football had gotten a little bit boring.
01:07:44.000Because I don't think he's had the same challenges as he had once before.
01:07:49.000When he was at Palace he was there to make sure that Crystal Palace achieved the constant pursuit of staying in the Premier League with a season in front of him.
01:07:57.000This time around he was coming in to fix someone else's mess with a group of players that needed a different voice and he just let them go, pointed them in the right direction and let them go.
01:08:07.000um and in the situation that you use of Arteta and Nuno Espirito Santos they were just the Tottenham appointment by Daniel Levy who's someone I get on quite well with it's a surprise that we do because we had nothing but confrontation when I was involved in football because he was constantly trying to do things to my football club that I didn't appreciate um but over the years I've seen both sides of the argument and I can appreciate some of the things he does but his appointment with Nuno Espirito Santos which is a bad appointment Our Teta was a moment in time.
01:09:01.000And some of it can just be you know Russell you've been successful and unsuccessful in life at times more successful than unsuccessful and I've had a combination of both and again more successful than unsuccessful but there's sliding door moments and sometimes it's got nothing to do with how good you are it's just you know it's just a moment in time.
01:09:19.000I lose 50 million pound in a football club because a player that I bought from my academy in a playoff semi-final hits the post on a penalty Changes the direction of travel for me.
01:09:30.000I'd go and do some deals that eventually caused me a lot of problems.
01:09:32.000The same player pops up two years later, Ben Watson, God love him, come out of my academy, and scores the winning goal in an FA Cup Final for Wigan.
01:09:38.000And these moments in time that sport throws out, that takes you back to the sentiment we started with.
01:09:44.000That's a beautiful way to begin to wrap this up.
01:09:47.000As you know, I'm a big fan of your show with Jim White over on TalkSport.
01:10:18.000God love you Dean, he's from Hull, I know one of your producers is from Hull.
01:10:21.000Dean Windass is his favourite player as a matter of fact.
01:10:23.000I like Dean, and his son Josh has done wonderfully well for Sheffield Wednesday.
01:10:26.000He said what Keown said, right let's try and get these words in.
01:10:29.000some of these I've heard you say. Superannuated I've heard you use. Apostiori, Fatuous I've heard you use that.
01:10:35.000Sophistry you could drop that in. There were some of the ones I'd really like.
01:10:38.000You used that the other day Sophistry. Yeah I did I've been reading my words thing.
01:10:42.000I don't share these with many people these are my favourite words.
01:10:45.000Is that because nobody wants to hear them? I get I've got a lot of pushbacks on them.
01:10:48.000I'm either victim of this one. But while you're here the door's locked you'll sit and listen.
01:10:53.000One I would like to hear on Talk Sport, and then what I would rather like, because I watch most of your stuff on YouTube, right, you know, that's when I watch your clips.
01:11:01.000Jordan and White striding forward in their trousers in this... The Coliseum of Confrontation.
01:11:07.000I don't like that, you know, that moniker that they give it, the Coliseum of Confrontation.
01:11:10.000It makes you look like a one-trick pony.
01:11:12.000I would prefer the Coliseum of Common Sense.
01:11:58.000If you've got the guts, if you've got the stomach, you can listen to Simon Jordan every weekday on Talk Sport or on YouTube before he gets banned in the UK from 10 a.m.