Stay Free - Russel Brand - Tariff War Begins: Trudeau Threatens Retaliation Against Trump – SF549

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:02:32.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:02:35.000 As you can see, I'm still celebrating Ash Wednesday like the lunatic that I am.

00:02:39.000 In a minute, we're going to be talking to the founder of the Halo app about spiritual principles, the compromises that come when you make money out of tech.

00:02:47.000 But before that, let's talk about what's going on in Canada, as well as talking about Europe re-arming itself.

00:02:54.000 Could we be on the brink of Armageddon?

00:02:57.000 And how do you possibly respond to a situation like that?

00:03:00.000 Whether you're watching us on X or YouTube, ultimately, please join us over on Rumble and consider getting Rumble Premium so that you can support me and Rumble's fantastic lineup directly, as well as getting a friction-free experience over there.

00:03:13.000 Is it possible that Justin Trudeau could get anything?

00:03:16.000 Anymore our step with the sentiments of the American people.

00:03:19.000 He's threatening to not come to America.

00:03:21.000 He's threatening to withdraw his finest Canadians. 0.57

00:03:24.000 Now that includes some pretty interesting Canadians.

00:03:26.000 Jim Carrey, are we going to lose that guy?

00:03:28.000 And Chris Pavlovsky, CEO of Rumble, has responded.

00:03:32.000 He himself is a Canadian person.

00:03:33.000 Is Canada about to become the 51st state?

00:03:36.000 Joining maybe Greenland.

00:03:37.000 Maybe it'll have to be the 52nd.

00:03:39.000 or is Canada going to form a bulwark of opposition against United States hegemony?

00:03:46.000 Let's get into it.

00:03:47.000 We're going to choose to not go on vacation in Florida or Old Orchard Beach or wherever.

00:03:53.000 About getting Florida, me, Tate, everyone's already here.

00:03:56.000 The last thing we need is a Canadian. 1.00

00:03:58.000 We're going to choose to try to buy Canadian products and forego bourbon and other classic American products.

00:04:07.000 And yeah, we're probably going to keep booing the American anthem.

00:04:11.000 Yeah, we're gonna boo you!

00:04:12.000 I will boo you right in your anthem!

00:04:15.000 Get ready!

00:04:16.000 We're talking about potential nuclear war in Ukraine.

00:04:19.000 Trudeau evoked the Emergency Act during the height of the pandemic.

00:04:23.000 Chrystia Freeland, he's likely replacement, froze people's bank accounts while they saluted Nazi. 1.00

00:04:28.000 I can't get over the saluting of Nazi.

00:04:29.000 But now, now things are getting serious.

00:04:32.000 Putin, we will boo you.

00:04:34.000 Straighten your anthem.

00:04:35.000 Trump, get ready.

00:04:37.000 Your anthem's not beneath a good booing.

00:04:39.000 and Keir Starmer. 0.91

00:04:40.000 We will boo you so hard in your anthem, you'll need to go immediately for an AIDS test.

00:04:45.000 Um, I put a pippin down my waddle-a-hole, and it turns out that everything's tick tickety-boom.

00:04:50.000 The American anthem.

00:04:52.000 Ron DeSantis of Florida seems to be responding directly to Trudeau's claim Does America need Canada?

00:04:58.000 Is the division between Canada and America arbitrary?

00:05:02.000 Will Trump's bellicose style and vulgarity lead to World Union in a previously inconceivable way?

00:05:09.000 Myself, I believe in national sovereignty and maximum, maximum individual freedom.

00:05:13.000 Let's see where this is going.

00:05:14.000 Flock to our state and investment to Florida surge.

00:05:18.000 We continue to set tourism records.

00:05:21.000 2024 saw more than 142 million visitors come to the state of Florida.

00:05:26.000 This includes 3.3 million visitors from Canada.

00:05:30.000 That's not much of a boycott in my book.

00:05:32.000 Maybe they wanted to get a glimpse of what a Stanley Cup winning hockey team actually looks like.

00:05:41.000 Yeah, you boo our anthem, and we'll mock your hockey.

00:05:45.000 We'll get you riding the hockey.

00:05:47.000 It's really interesting, isn't it, how the symbols of a nation...

00:05:50.000 Become open to ridicule in this ongoing discourse that does have political connotations.

00:05:55.000 This whole controversy is, of course, spawned by Trump's imposition of tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

00:06:02.000 That could purportedly happen any day now.

00:06:06.000 Let's have a look at Ontario Premier Doug Ford cancelling Starlink.

00:06:10.000 That guy's going for it.

00:06:11.000 He's the one that said, like, I will fight to the death, not actual death.

00:06:14.000 No one will actually die.

00:06:15.000 It's kind of empty rhetoric that people are trying to move beyond.

00:06:18.000 Also, starting today, all U.S.-based companies will be banned from taking part in government procurement.

00:06:26.000 Every year, the province and its agencies spend about $30 billion on procurement.

00:06:32.000 You can forget about that procurement and we will boo you so hard in the anthem that you won't sit down for a week.

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00:07:55.000 Alongside our more than $200 billion plan to build infrastructure, US-based businesses will now lose out on tens of billions of dollars in revenues.

00:08:08.000 You can forget about maple syrup and Mountie hats, too.

00:08:11.000 Well, I've got me own Mountie hat.

00:08:13.000 I don't need you, as a matter of fact.

00:08:14.000 Here's Chris Pawlowski, CEO of Rumble, a Canadian company, responding.

00:08:18.000 Canada is going to be in a world of hurt.

00:08:20.000 I would not hold Canadian dollars, and I wouldn't buy Canadian real estate.

00:08:24.000 It's of my opinion that we're about to witness one of the largest declines in Canadian history, driven by incompetent leadership in Canada.

00:08:30.000 Please explain to Governor Trudeau of Canada that when he puts on a retaliatory tariff on the US, our reciprocal tariff will immediately increase by a...

00:08:37.000 So, in a sense, you can't rely on those somewhat impotent, former, woke-style WEF leaders to stand up against the belligerence and potency of a leader like Trump, who, in spite of what the view may think, has a significant mandate.

00:08:54.000 Here's Justin Trudeau directly messaging Trump in a manner that can only be described as, I mean, in a way, if your fuel bills are high in Canada, you can just watch Trump doing this and warm yourself with pure cringe.

00:09:08.000 Now I want to speak directly to one specific American.

00:09:14.000 Donald.

00:09:15.000 I don't mean duck, because I actually don't even believe Donald Duck's real.

00:09:19.000 Who talks like that?

00:09:21.000 All that stuff.

00:09:22.000 I'm talking to you, Trump, as an equal.

00:09:24.000 I'm speaking to you, Fidel Castro, as a father.

00:09:27.000 I'm joking!

00:09:28.000 In the over eight years you and I have worked together, we've done big things.

00:09:37.000 What big things have they done?

00:09:39.000 Is there anything as big, as memorable or significant as the evoking of the Emergency Act in the pandemic to control truckers, Canadian citizens protesting against their government, all the while telling them that they're the Nazis?

00:09:52.000 You are the Nazis. 0.92

00:09:53.000 That is why we have to control you. 1.00

00:09:55.000 You are the Nazis. 0.98

00:09:56.000 That's why we have to freeze your bank accounts. 1.00

00:09:58.000 You are the Nazis. 0.95

00:09:58.000 That's why we are saluting an actual Nazi in our parliament. 0.95

00:10:02.000 Wait a minute.

00:10:02.000 This doesn't make sense.

00:10:04.000 We signed a historic deal that has created record jobs and growth in both of our countries.

00:10:11.000 We've done big things together on the world stage.

00:10:15.000 They're not the Bee Gees!

00:10:17.000 Stop making everything sound gay!

00:10:19.000 As Canada and the US have done together for decades, for generations.

00:10:25.000 And now, we should be working...

00:10:29.000 Together, to ensure even greater prosperity for North Americans in a very uncertain and challenging world.

00:10:39.000 Now, it's not in my habit to agree with the Wall Street Journal. 0.97

00:10:44.000 But, Donald, they point out that even though you're a very smart guy, this is a very dumb thing to do. 0.96

00:10:54.000 We, two friends, fighting. 0.72

00:10:57.000 Is exactly what our opponents around the world want to see.

00:11:03.000 You can't actually adopt that perspective or that position against Donald Trump when you're Justin Trudeau, when you've behaved the way that he has behaved in government.

00:11:11.000 And when we're beginning to experience the...

00:11:14.000 Success of some of the audacity of Trump's public rhetoric.

00:11:18.000 Zelensky now says he's ready for peace.

00:11:21.000 Even with the extraordinary AI images of Gaza as a holiday destination, it appears that there's a likelihood that solutions that were previously inaccessible...

00:11:31.000 Might become an option, even for someone who finds it somewhat distasteful to speak about a region so connected to and fraught with controversy, pain and suffering spoken of in such a glib way.

00:11:43.000 You have to acknowledge that Trump is the political figure that Americans have voted for and appears in some extraordinary ways to be the political leader that the world needs.

00:11:51.000 And whether you agree with that...

00:11:53.000 Or not.

00:11:53.000 You surely understand that Justin Trudeau isn't the political figure that the world needs.

00:11:58.000 But that's just what I think.

00:11:58.000 Let me know what you think in the comments and the chat, wherever you are watching us.

00:12:03.000 You might be watching us on X. You might be watching us on YouTube.

00:12:05.000 Please join us on Rumble.

00:12:07.000 Sign up to Rumble Premium.

00:12:08.000 It impacts me positively when you do that.

00:12:12.000 You get an ad-free experience when you do.

00:12:14.000 But...

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00:13:28.000 Yes!

00:13:29.000 War between Europe and Russia without America. 0.56

00:13:33.000 Oh dear.

00:13:35.000 Okay, so here's Scott Jennings revealing that Europe spent more money on Russian oil and gas than they sent to Ukraine collectively.

00:13:43.000 So it looks like, even from that perspective, there's some complexity when it comes to the position of Europe on this conflict.

00:13:51.000 Since Trump's been in office, it's looked like...

00:13:54.000 Political and diplomatic solutions might emerge for the first time since Boris Johnson, at the behest of Biden, went to Kiev to stop.

00:14:01.000 Zelensky signing a peace deal with Putin.

00:14:05.000 So, are we moving towards peace in spite of the vulgar or bellicose nature of the rhetoric?

00:14:10.000 And indeed, are Europe even in a position to go to war against Russia economically?

00:14:15.000 Does it even make sense?

00:14:16.000 What is Europe's true position when it comes to that conflict?

00:14:20.000 Can we rely on people like Ursula von der Leyen or should we rely on Jeffrey Sachs?

00:14:25.000 An academic and expert who's helped us to understand the true origins of this conflict and therefore be forewarned and forearmed, ironically, against escalating conflict because who really benefits from this stuff?

00:14:37.000 First of all, though, let's have a look at Scott Jennings revealing that Europe spent more money on Russian oil and gas last year than they sent to Ukraine.

00:14:43.000 So whose side are they on, really?

00:14:46.000 Yeah, you mentioned the Europeans.

00:14:47.000 It's interesting to me.

00:14:48.000 They spent more money on Russian oil and gas last year than they sent to Ukraine.

00:14:52.000 Collectively, that's number one.

00:14:53.000 Number two, it's interesting to me that Zelensky could not see on Friday the benefit of signing the minerals deal.

00:15:00.000 That in and of itself is a security guarantee.

00:15:03.000 When our interests become your interests, that is a security guarantee.

00:15:06.000 You're never going to get Trump to sign an agreement saying, well, we'll eventually put boots on the ground.

00:15:11.000 A mineral deal, Scott, is not a security guarantee.

00:15:12.000 It is, because we would have guaranteed our own interests.

00:15:15.000 On top of that, most of the minerals are in territory that is being held by Russia.

00:15:20.000 So the mineral deal is something that is...

00:15:23.000 Are you saying that we would have entered into an economic system and not defended it?

00:15:25.000 It's near and dear to Donald Trump's heart, but it is not a security guarantee.

00:15:30.000 I disagree.

00:15:31.000 The role of the president is to put...

00:15:33.000 YouTube and social media YouTube and social media phidias invited Jeffrey Sachs to the EU, where he's a member of the European Parliament, using his social media following to get himself elected into a position of political power, becoming friends with Elon Musk along the way, and exposing the machinations and machinery behind giant bureaucracies and exposing the machinations and machinery behind giant bureaucracies like the EU, who you can't trust and rely on.

00:15:54.000 Now, it was the EU who, from a position of pomposity, claimed that they would never negotiate with Russia.

00:15:59.000 It was NATO that said, oh, that Putin, he's got what's coming to him.

00:16:03.000 In a sense, I'm saying it's these giant and unelected bureaucracies, although I recognise that on some level the EU has democratically elected members, although many of them are extremely unpopular, and as a conglomerate they don't seem to be working out that well, are far more out of touch than a populist nationalist leader like Donald Trump.

00:16:19.000 And it's the failure of globalism, and along with it, the left that has led to the rise of populism.

00:16:24.000 That's a bigger conversation.

00:16:25.000 There's focus on Jeffrey Sachs explaining to Phidias that Europe didn't even want to negotiate with Russia until Trump did it.

00:16:32.000 So while they claim to be the adults in the room, they're actually copycats.

00:16:36.000 Trump doesn't even recognize Europe.

00:16:38.000 Why should they be at the negotiating table?

00:16:40.000 Partly because Europe should have been negotiating.

00:16:43.000 But it said, no, we will never negotiate until this moment.

00:16:47.000 But today I heard, oh, we weren't invited.

00:16:49.000 Well, you've been there for three years.

00:16:50.000 Now the Europeans and Zelensky are saying, oh my God, oh my God. 0.91

00:16:54.000 So we shouldn't follow what the U.S. was doing as Europeans? 0.80

00:16:57.000 This is basically what you're saying?

00:16:59.000 Of course, Europe should have a foreign policy.

00:17:01.000 But they thought naively they could follow Biden.

00:17:04.000 And I did tell them.

00:17:05.000 Repeatedly. 1.00

00:17:06.000 You don't let the United States blow up the pipeline that provides the energy for Europe and then sit there like a dumb idiot. 1.00

00:17:16.000 We don't know who did it. 1.00

00:17:18.000 Well, I can show you the President of the United States saying if Russia invades, Nord Stream will be finished. 0.77

00:17:26.000 There will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.

00:17:30.000 Hmm, is that a clue?

00:17:32.000 This is not foreign policy.

00:17:34.000 This is doing what the United States wants, but now you obviously can't just follow Trump.

00:17:41.000 It's crazy to me a lot, like, out of 720 members of the European Parliament, which one of them, majority, they vote to continue this war, to keep sending weapons.

00:17:50.000 Now, strangely, if you ask, of all the countries, who ignores the UN the most?

00:17:56.000 I'm sure every member of Parliament would say, oh, Russia.

00:18:00.000 But you know what?

00:18:00.000 Let me mention a secret to the members of parliament.

00:18:03.000 The United States is the country that ignores the UN completely.

00:18:07.000 It's not even close.

00:18:09.000 The United States have been engaged in a hundred regime change operations since the end of World War II. A hundred.

00:18:17.000 Russia just saw the U.S. pushing further, putting its missile systems, putting NATO enlargement, leaving the Intermediate Nuclear Force Agreement, leaving the ABM agreement.

00:18:27.000 Europe wouldn't acknowledge any of those provocations because the only word you could use in Europe is unprovoked.

00:18:35.000 Well, to my mind, frankly, you would say, okay, we understand you had reasons for all of this and many of them legitimate.

00:18:44.000 We have our fears.

00:18:45.000 Now, how do we work this out?

00:18:47.000 Because whatever happens, we're sharing this continent together.

00:18:52.000 That conversation between Phidias and Jeffrey Sachs shows you everything you need to know about an optimistic new politics that might yet emerge.

00:19:02.000 Sure, Trump is of a particular hue, but he's forming alliances that are exciting and new.

00:19:08.000 And with figures like Phidias, who are political and media operators facilitating experts like Sachs, informing us of the complex truths of the Ukraine-Russia conflict and Europe's dishonest and hypocritical position, It's possible that we could continue to develop more complex perspectives together.

00:19:26.000 That what may yet grow out of MAGA might be something that even people that loathe Trump see as being relevant to them and their lives and born of values and virtues that are meaningful even for the kind of diverse minorities that they claim that Trump is a dreadful threat to.

00:19:43.000 Do you see that something brilliant could emerge right now?

00:19:47.000 It's possible that we could oppose the type of hypocrisy and corruption That the Occupy movement was opposed to.

00:19:53.000 That anyone that cares about community sovereignty, national sovereignty, and individual sovereignty should be concerned with.

00:20:00.000 Thank God for a figure like Phidias.

00:20:02.000 Thank God for Jeffrey Sachs.

00:20:03.000 And Lord alone, protect us from the likes of Ursula von der Leyen, who's suggesting that we should create a European army. 1.00

00:20:11.000 They are still advocating for globalism, globalism, more globalism, all the time telling you that the megalomaniacal tyrant that you should...

00:20:20.000 It doesn't make sense.

00:20:23.000 You can't loathe Elon Musk because he's got too much power and then say that the EU should be able to arm itself, particularly when Ursula von der Leyen, during the pandemic period, behaved like a plutocrat, was dishonest, and advanced the idea that we should get vaccinated without knowing what exactly was going into our arms, if you took it.

00:20:42.000 I never took it.

00:20:43.000 She can't claim to be a friend of democracy. 0.60

00:20:46.000 Here she is claiming that in order to be a friend of democracy, in order to bring about peace, we have to have war.

00:20:52.000 That Europe will be stepping up its defence expenditure and rearming itself.

00:20:56.000 We had a very good and frank discussion.

00:21:01.000 Basically, we've discussed everything that is around peace and strength.

00:21:07.000 And, of course, security guarantees are of utmost importance for Ukraine, but we need comprehensive security guarantees.

00:21:15.000 This includes that we have to put Ukraine in a position of strength, that it has the means to fortify and protect itself from the economic survival to the military resilience.

00:21:29.000 It's basically turning Ukraine into a steel porcupine. 0.94

00:21:34.000 That is indigestible for potential invaders.

00:21:38.000 And therefore, the focus is not only on the military supply, but also, for example, securing their energy system and making sure that over time this is a strong and resilient country.

00:21:50.000 The second element I brought to the table is that we urgently have to rearm Europe.

00:21:57.000 And for that, I will present a comprehensive plan how to rearm Europe on the 6th of March.

00:22:04.000 When we have our European Council to deliver this.

00:22:07.000 And what level of spending should individual countries make to defence?

00:22:12.000 One thing is very strong.

00:22:13.000 We have to have a surge in defence.

00:22:16.000 We really have to step up massively the defence expenditure.

00:22:21.000 And for that we need a clear big plan.

00:22:26.000 from the European Union for the member states and of course for common European domains like for example advanced air shields we need a common European approach but also the member states need more fiscal space.

00:22:39.000 To do a search in defence.

00:22:41.000 Have you won the argument with European colleagues about stepping up to the plate?

00:22:45.000 Absolutely.

00:22:45.000 We all have understood that after a long time of underinvestment, it is now of utmost importance to step up the defence investment for a prolonged period of time.

00:22:56.000 It's for the security of the European Union and we need in the strategic environment in which we live to prepare for the worst and therefore stepping up the defensive.

00:23:11.000 What message would you like to take to America?

00:23:14.000 What message would you like to give to America after today's meeting?

00:23:20.000 We are ready together with you to defend democracy, to defend the principle that there is a rule of law that you cannot.

00:23:36.000 Invade your neighbour and bully your neighbour or you cannot change borders with force.

00:23:44.000 And it's in our common interest to prevent future wars that we make very clear that these rules count and that democracy, that the democracies are standing up for that.

00:23:55.000 The possibility is of course that we have the wider Europe approach.

00:24:00.000 So today we had the Norwegians.

00:24:05.000 The Turks. 0.84

00:24:06.000 Of course we were hosted here by the UK. Canada was also there.

00:24:11.000 So the wider concept of Europe stepping up.

00:24:16.000 And what does that mean in terms of numbers of soldiers on the ground?

00:24:19.000 How many European soldiers on the ground?

00:24:22.000 We stand up for the common interests.

00:24:25.000 So, if you believe in peace, it's time, I would say, to start supporting populist candidates in your country wherever you can.

00:24:35.000 Disrupt their machinery.

00:24:36.000 Remember, it's the EU that went into Romania to reverse their elections.

00:24:40.000 It's the EU that said they'd do the same thing in Germany if it were necessary.

00:24:44.000 You cannot trust the globalists.

00:24:46.000 You must not trust the globalists.

00:24:47.000 This is a new form of imperialism that you have to oppose.

00:24:50.000 Even if you don't agree with every aspect of nationalism, you must recognize that it's better than globalism.

00:24:56.000 But that's just what I think.

00:24:57.000 Why don't you let me know what you think in the comments and the chat.

00:24:59.000 Remember, join us on Rumble Premium.

00:25:01.000 We've got a fantastic lineup over here on Rumble.

00:25:04.000 And by supporting us directly, you get ad-free content.

00:25:07.000 In a minute, I'm going to be talking to the founder of Hello Alex Jones, no not that one, about Christianity, business, faith and tech, as well as telling my own lovely story from Mar-a-Lago.

00:25:18.000 We'll be doing that in a moment.

00:25:20.000 Let me know in the comments in the chat what you think about the stories of today, whether you're watching in Locals or Rumble Premium or wherever you're watching.

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00:26:09.000 Oh, Mark.

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00:26:14.000 Father Mike Schmitz will take us deep into the gospel with excellent Sunday homilies.

00:26:18.000 And you'll get to hear some incredible true stories of faith.

00:26:21.000 It's already shaping up to be their biggest Lent ever, with thousands of people praying together all over the world.

00:26:25.000 You can get three months free when you sign up at hallo.com forward slash brand so that you can do the Time now for my conversation with Alex Jones.

00:26:50.000 He's CEO of Hallo, the app.

00:26:52.000 That sponsors our show and also really has helped me on my journey through Lent.

00:26:57.000 What have you given up?

00:26:58.000 What have you given up?

00:26:59.000 I won't give up my hat and I won't give up that.

00:27:02.000 Stay with us for the conversation with Alex Jones.

00:27:06.000 Welcome to Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:27:08.000 Thanks for coming on.

00:27:10.000 Thanks for having me.

00:27:12.000 You must be one of those people that has to continually align your...

00:27:18.000 Like I do, your faith with your business and continually live in the question of how do I do this ethically?

00:27:30.000 How do I ensure that this is bringing about his kingdom?

00:27:35.000 And how do I... Because if you are able to do this, please tell me how to do it, because it's the thing I struggle with most.

00:27:42.000 Well, not the thing, but one of the things I struggle with most.

00:27:45.000 How do you ensure that your work with Hallow, which must be personally enriching and empowering, remains within your...

00:27:55.000 I mean, I can tell within five seconds, although I've seen you on other people's podcasts and stuff, that how serious you are about your faith and about how serious you are about your devotion to Christ.

00:28:05.000 How do you ensure that...

00:28:07.000 We don't get pulled into serving the very kingdom we're meant to be fighting against.

00:28:15.000 Yeah, I mean, I think it's the battle of a lifetime.

00:28:18.000 You know, it's trying to die to yourself and die to all your vanities and all the things of the world that you, at least I, before Christ, kept wanting to chase after.

00:28:28.000 So, I mean, I think it's, you know, I'm very much just at the beginning, but...

00:28:32.000 Of this journey and this battle, which I think is a lifetime one.

00:28:35.000 I think, you know, working on something relating to your faith, you know, it has a lot of pros and cons.

00:28:43.000 And God has given me a great gift in being able to do this.

00:28:46.000 I think, you know, on the cons, it can certainly feel like...

00:28:50.000 You know, it used to be easier to separate, which maybe isn't even a good thing, but it used to be easier to separate kind of your work from, like, what you're doing morally or your spiritual life, and now for me, obviously, there's no separation.

00:29:00.000 It's also quite hard for me to, like...

00:29:03.000 I use the app every day.

00:29:04.000 I love it.

00:29:05.000 It's helped me a ton.

00:29:07.000 We built it initially just for me and my journey to try to grow deeper in a relationship with the Lord.

00:29:12.000 But it's quite hard for me to listen to an audio session or something or a prayer with Father Mike or Jeff Kaven's Daily Reflection or something and not hear a little audio blip and be like, oh man, team, we need to make this higher quality.

00:29:25.000 And so your work kind of conflating with faith can certainly be difficult.

00:29:28.000 But for me, For me, the coolest part has been, and I've heard you talk about this before too, but has been learning to surrender.

00:29:38.000 And really, that is the only thing I've learned through all of Hallow and all of my own spiritual life, is just learning in everything to surrender.

00:29:46.000 And with Hallow, he just makes it so tactical and so obvious.

00:29:49.000 Like, there was this first, our first real fundraise that we did, which is, you know, it was certainly the...

00:29:55.000 Primary time that we needed money.

00:29:57.000 I was building this off my credit card and we had drained our 401ks and we had this great team who was working really hard, but we were certainly running out of money.

00:30:05.000 And we did this fundraise, and I remember I pitched a ton of people, like 80 people over the course of two weeks.

00:30:11.000 And they essentially all said no.

00:30:14.000 And the no's came really quick.

00:30:17.000 I got like 75 no's in the course of two weeks.

00:30:20.000 And mostly just like, hey, you're not the right person to build this.

00:30:23.000 This isn't a good idea.

00:30:24.000 Nobody's going to pray.

00:30:25.000 This spirituality thing is dead.

00:30:26.000 It's all about kind of mindfulness and secular spirituality and all this stuff.

00:30:30.000 And I remember I just came back to my...

00:30:34.000 Little studio apartment and I was just like beset with this heaviness and this weight and this stress and I had like knots in my back I couldn't eat I couldn't sleep and I sat down and I prayed and I was like God look I don't know how to do this I think you chose the wrong guy for this I am clearly not the right guy all these people are saying that I'm the wrong guy and you know I don't know if this idea is gonna work all these things and the only thing I know what to do is to make a deal with you and I said you know God If you want this thing to work,

00:31:04.000 you'll make it work, and I promise you, you will always get the credit.

00:31:07.000 I'm never going to trick myself into thinking I'm some successful person who figured this out or entrepreneur or evangelist or whatever it is.

00:31:13.000 I know you're the one doing it.

00:31:14.000 I'm always going to give you the credit.

00:31:16.000 At the same time, my deal with you is if it doesn't work, that's not on me, that's on you.

00:31:21.000 You are going to be the one to take the weight of that.

00:31:23.000 I'm going to work hard.

00:31:24.000 I'm going to do the best that I can, but it's your thing.

00:31:27.000 And if you wanted to humble me or teach me some lesson or reach out to somebody and inspire somebody else to do something, fine.

00:31:34.000 It's your thing.

00:31:35.000 And it was just this weight.

00:31:36.000 That immediately came off of my shoulders.

00:31:38.000 And the next day, we got an offer to fund the whole thing.

00:31:41.000 And then we got like three or four more the following.

00:31:44.000 But it was just this beautiful example.

00:31:45.000 And I can tell maybe 10 stories of that.

00:31:47.000 But every time at Hallow that something successful has happened, either from the world's perspective or from God's or the mission perspective, it has always been God.

00:31:55.000 The same pattern of us trying to cling to something really tightly.

00:31:59.000 And then...

00:32:00.000 Letting go and saying, God, look, if you want this to happen, it's going to happen.

00:32:03.000 And then he does these incredible things with it.

00:32:05.000 So for us, it's just getting to watch what happens when we surrender and let God work.

00:32:10.000 It's very similar to a lot of conversations I've had about people.

00:32:17.000 It seems quite a common theme that they surrender and allowing Christ to carry for you something that otherwise...

00:32:29.000 It might become tethered to self.

00:32:33.000 Even Jonathan Rumi, who I know is my friend, who's on your app A Bunch, his story about just before getting cast in The Chosen is really similar to your story.

00:32:48.000 I'm wondering about everything I'm doing at the moment because I'm at that very pivotal point, Alex, where I'm...

00:32:59.000 I don't know how many transitions you've had across your life.

00:33:03.000 I guess everyone's life must seem episodic from the inside.

00:33:06.000 But I came to faith on the 28th of April there.

00:33:11.000 And now, you know, not only do I have questions about entertainment, As an industry, and the function and purpose of entertainment, and of course I'm aware of the many analogies that exist that describe things as tools,

00:33:30.000 and a tool can be used for good or bad, and it tends to be where these conversations sort of go, but in practice and in purpose, scalpels do tend to be used to conduct surgery, whereas daggers tend to get used to plunge into human bodies.

00:33:52.000 What I feel like is that I've moved away from entertainment.

00:33:56.000 It wasn't even a deliberate choice.

00:33:58.000 I turned my back on Hollywood because I realized how corrupt it was.

00:34:02.000 There were so many factors, including it not being as smooth a ride as I thought it would be.

00:34:08.000 If people kept offering me a bunch of money to be in a bunch of movies, I might have kept saying a bunch of yeses.

00:34:15.000 But that's not how it went.

00:34:17.000 And now, even in the world where you might call it alternative news or independent media, I similarly feel like such important work has been done in telling the truth in this kind of space by loads of people.

00:34:35.000 I just think that whether it's the way the coronavirus was handled or whether the Ukraine-Russia conflict is playing out, two of the most obvious issues.

00:34:46.000 Centralised systems of power that I do not think are separate from evil, Alex.

00:34:51.000 I do not consider them to be separate from evil.

00:34:53.000 I consider them to be a clear expression of evil.

00:34:57.000 Are now challenged.

00:34:59.000 But myself now, mate, I feel like, you know, I want to be more closely alloyed to Jesus.

00:35:06.000 And I know that a lot of new converted people feel that.

00:35:10.000 But it...

00:35:11.000 I don't know.

00:35:12.000 It happened organically.

00:35:14.000 I just was like, before getting baptized, I was just like, you know, look, I'm reading these things.

00:35:19.000 I'm having these conversations about Christ.

00:35:21.000 Right now I'm baptized.

00:35:22.000 And I was just talking about it.

00:35:24.000 And then that just started to be the stuff that people were watching and asking me about.

00:35:28.000 And there's a revival happening, isn't there?

00:35:31.000 And, you know, I talked to Dallas Jenkins of The Chosen about it.

00:35:36.000 I've spoken to a lot of people about it, and you seem like another person I should ask.

00:35:40.000 Do you feel like there's a revival taking place?

00:35:44.000 And if there is a revival taking place, ought those of us that believe in this thing be acting like the early Christians and, you know, devoting ourselves in a very, very sincere and absolute way?

00:35:59.000 Yeah, I mean, I certainly think there's a revival happening.

00:36:03.000 I've thought so for...

00:36:04.000 For a while, but it seems like, you know, there's at least more external signs now than there were.

00:36:10.000 We started Hallow maybe five and a half, six years ago.

00:36:13.000 And, you know, we have this incredible blessing of getting to journey with folks in their relationship with the Lord and watch what He does in their life.

00:36:24.000 And so, you know, at a normal church, you might have, you know, maybe a couple thousand people.

00:36:30.000 But we have this incredible privilege of getting to receive these notes from folks who have, really over the last five years, but it's increasingly so certainly over the last few years, but folks who are really lost, people in really tough times.

00:36:45.000 I mean, it's a lot of folks.

00:36:46.000 It's people who take their faith seriously, people who have been going to church for a while, who are able to encounter the Lord in a new way, but especially for us.

00:36:54.000 It's these stories of people who are really lost.

00:36:57.000 I mean, you know, we certainly have many addicts who have been struggling with addiction for 10, 20, 30 years who are able to find some sense of, who are able to be sober.

00:37:08.000 Through the grace of the Lord.

00:37:09.000 We have moms and dads who have lost children who are able to find some sense of hope and peace again.

00:37:14.000 We have young people who are really struggling with depression and anxiety who are able to find love in the Lord.

00:37:20.000 Like, we had this one young woman reach out to us and said she'd never heard anyone say she was beautiful, which is the father of a, like, four-year-old daughter, breaks my heart.

00:37:29.000 And, you know, she's in college, and she prays some meditation on hallow and in the silence.

00:37:34.000 It's not a, you know, most of hallow is just trying to structure how...

00:37:37.000 We hear the Lord in silence.

00:37:39.000 But she hears the Lord say, you are beautifully and wonderfully made.

00:37:42.000 Do you think I make mistakes?

00:37:43.000 And it's just like, and she then walks back to the Lord.

00:37:45.000 We had this other young person who was struggling with this habitual sin, this state of deep sin, and was addicted to, you know, many things of the world, but certainly lost and had this prayer experience where she was talking to the Lord.

00:38:00.000 She just said, look, I'm not worthy.

00:38:02.000 I'm so wrong.

00:38:03.000 I'm so broken.

00:38:04.000 Like, you can't possibly love me.

00:38:06.000 And he just says, I love you.

00:38:08.000 And they just have this, like, 10-minute prayer session where she just says, no, you can't love me.

00:38:12.000 And he just says, I love you.

00:38:13.000 No, you can't love me.

00:38:13.000 I love you.

00:38:14.000 And it's funny because, like, I don't know, one of the most beautiful examples of what happens in prayer is the story of the prodigal son.

00:38:20.000 You know, we're all that prodigal son, and we're all fallen away from the Lord.

00:38:24.000 We've all ran away from Him.

00:38:25.000 And as soon as we start even coming back, while we are still a long way off, the Father runs out to us with open arms and hugs us and embraces us.

00:38:34.000 But I mean, I think you see this.

00:38:35.000 So we've seen this revival in individuals.

00:38:37.000 I mean, they just send us these notes now every day where we see what God is doing in people who have really fallen away.

00:38:42.000 But I think you start to see it.

00:38:44.000 You know, broadly in the culture, I think you start to see it, obviously with The Chosen, with Hallow, with any of these things that have started to take off.

00:38:51.000 You've got these podcasts, like Father Mike's podcast that takes off.

00:38:53.000 I mean, it's awesome to see.

00:38:55.000 I think, so yeah, I certainly think there's a revival happening.

00:38:59.000 You asked a lot of interesting things.

00:39:01.000 You know, the surrender piece of it, I think like if you really boil down the spiritual life to one thing, it is this radical surrender.

00:39:10.000 And we had this man who had just lost his wife.

00:39:14.000 He was praying with us on the app, and he reached out, and his wife, they had like three or four kids.

00:39:19.000 She was in her late 30s, and she was diagnosed with a terminal illness.

00:39:25.000 And he says as soon as she was diagnosed, she had six months to live.

00:39:28.000 As soon as she was diagnosed, he just was filled with this anxiety and this stress and this fear, and she just immediately was peaceful, like just this overwhelming sense of peace.

00:39:35.000 And he asked her like three or four months into this journey of preparing for her death, like why?

00:39:43.000 Are you so peaceful?

00:39:44.000 How are you able to find this sense of grace, this sense of peace?

00:39:47.000 And she goes, you know what I realized?

00:39:49.000 I realized that everything in life, like this whole, all the things that we do in this world, in our life on earth.

00:39:56.000 Are just practice.

00:39:57.000 They're just tools for us to practice learning to surrender our lives to the Lord completely in every moment.

00:40:03.000 To die to ourselves and to surrender ourselves to the Lord, just like the Son of God did on the cross.

00:40:08.000 And just like we're called to do at the end of our life, obviously, is to commend our spirits to the Lord.

00:40:13.000 But it's this radical surrender, which takes, to your point, I think often people will say, you know, yeah, your point on...

00:40:21.000 Well, there's tools.

00:40:22.000 Everything is a tool, and God can sanctify it, which I think is true.

00:40:25.000 God can sanctify media with the chosen.

00:40:28.000 God can sanctify podcasts.

00:40:29.000 God can sanctify your phone, even though the vast majority of what technology is used for is evil.

00:40:35.000 But at the same time, especially in the beginning of our journey, there is this radical detachment you have to have from the things that...

00:40:44.000 Pull you to the world.

00:40:45.000 And it's not this gradual thing.

00:40:48.000 It's not this little thing.

00:40:49.000 It's not like, I'll give a little bit more of the Lord.

00:40:51.000 Now, sometimes it might take a long time, but it's this radical detachment from the things of the world.

00:40:57.000 And, you know, God, Jesus says this very clearly. 0.54

00:41:00.000 Like, it's better that you cut off your arm.

00:41:02.000 It's better that you cut off your hand than that it causes you to sin. 0.99

00:41:05.000 Now, your hand is, God made your hand.

00:41:07.000 So it's, you know, it's a good thing.

00:41:08.000 Your hand is a good thing.

00:41:09.000 God made it.

00:41:10.000 He gave it to you as a gift.

00:41:11.000 But he's saying it's better.

00:41:13.000 To cut off your hand, then it leads you to sin.

00:41:17.000 And the radical nature, like if you really saw your soul the way God sees your soul, anything that leads you to sin, you would cut off.

00:41:24.000 And I don't know, I've experienced this in my own life.

00:41:26.000 And it's, you know, like in my relationship with my wife. 1.00

00:41:30.000 Like I, you know, I was a piece of crap. 0.97

00:41:34.000 I came back to my faith, you know, much later in life, fell away from my faith and came back to it really because it's... 0.98

00:41:41.000 Through prayer and led to the starting of Hallow, so really like six, seven years ago.

00:41:45.000 But, you know, prayer at the core is just love.

00:41:48.000 And it's the simplest expression of what our relationship with the Lord is, is love.

00:41:54.000 And so a good analogy is, you know, the love that we have here on earth for...

00:41:59.000 You know, our fellow human beings.

00:42:00.000 And the relationship that I had with my wife was a fascinating one because I dated all these people, and I would always keep texting other people while I was dating someone else.

00:42:08.000 And, you know, whatever.

00:42:10.000 When you break up with somebody, you go be with somebody else and whatever it is.

00:42:13.000 And that was my college experience, which is following the ways of the world, which to your point on the large institutions and the ways of the world being destruction and evil, I think they certainly are.

00:42:21.000 Like, the normal mode of operating is Satan's, not...

00:42:25.000 You know, the normal thing that happens in the world is evil.

00:42:28.000 It is destruction.

00:42:29.000 But as soon as I met my wife, there was something different.

00:42:31.000 It was like I met her and I was like, this is the woman I want to marry.

00:42:34.000 I was blessed.

00:42:35.000 The first moment I saw her, I was like, I want to marry this woman.

00:42:38.000 I don't know what it is.

00:42:39.000 She was incredibly holy, the most beautiful woman I've ever met.

00:42:42.000 And as soon as I met her, I texted everybody that I had been texting before and I was like, I'm not speaking to you anymore.

00:42:47.000 Sorry, I can't.

00:42:49.000 It's not like you're not a bad person.

00:42:50.000 It's not that I don't enjoy our friendship.

00:42:52.000 I just don't.

00:42:53.000 You know, I don't trust myself.

00:42:54.000 I need to disconnect completely from the things that I was doing before so that I could be wholly and completely devoted to my wife.

00:43:01.000 And that was such a blessing.

00:43:03.000 Now, it was like, I wish I didn't have to do that.

00:43:05.000 I wish I wasn't as fallen and broken.

00:43:06.000 Like, I could still maintain these relationships or these friendships.

00:43:09.000 But I had to for myself.

00:43:10.000 And that's like, I don't know, the spiritual life for us is...

00:43:15.000 Very similar.

00:43:16.000 It's like, you know, when you first come back to the faith, and St. Teresa of Avila, there's two really great mystics, and the thing that really brought me back to the faith was the mystical tradition of the Catholic Church, but Christianity broadly, and there's two really great Christian mystics.

00:43:30.000 The one, obviously, St. Paul is a great Christian mystic, Mary and our Lord, of course, obviously, but the two great saints in more recent times are St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, and they both describe this journey, and this journey to the Lord.

00:43:45.000 It's called sometimes the purgative way.

00:43:47.000 St. John of the Cross calls it the dark night of the soul.

00:43:50.000 St. Teresa Avila has this image of the mansions of the heart and you're journeying closer to the Lord at the center of your heart.

00:43:57.000 But what happens at the beginning is like this radical denial of everything in the world, like this radical cutting off from everything and living a life to try to live a life fully on fire for the Lord.

00:44:08.000 And it's this combination of prayer and fasting, which, you know, during the season of Lent is the focus, along with like giving alms, which is, you know, an incredibly important part of, you know, fasting from the material goods that you have, but also trying to be generous and charitable.

00:44:22.000 But it's this combination of prayer and fasting.

00:44:24.000 And so with fasting, you try to disconnect radically from everything in the world.

00:44:27.000 St. Teresa of Avila has this quote that says, no one who is connected to any of the visible things could enjoy the invisible things.

00:44:34.000 And St. John of the Cross has this prayer where he says, you know, I seek in all things what.

00:44:40.000 Not what is easiest, but what is most difficult.

00:44:43.000 Not what is most delightful, but what is harshest.

00:44:45.000 And so it's this radical, like, I want to disconnect from everything in the world.

00:44:48.000 All my vanities, all my pride, all my lust, all my greed, everything that might even, like, tempt me to lead to something or an occasion of sin or an opportunity for me to connect to those.

00:44:58.000 I have to disconnect to them totally so that I can give my heart fully to the Lord.

00:45:02.000 And then what God does with that is He then takes it back and sanctifies it through everything.

00:45:06.000 So I think, you know, like, when I hear you talk about, I feel...

00:45:09.000 I feel like people are telling me it's okay to still kind of be involved in these things and I just kind of want to give myself totally to Jesus.

00:45:15.000 It's like, yeah, I think that's, you know, when I read these folks and in my own journey, it's like that is, I think, the way to a deeper relationship with the Lord is totally radically cutting off from these things.

00:45:25.000 Now, at the same time, God can use the things that you're doing to sanctify the world.

00:45:30.000 And I think one of the things, you know, we've seen at Hallow and one of the things that I see is you have this The thing that gets us most excited about the work that we do is going after the lost sheep, going after the lost lamb, going after the one, not the 99. It's like, man, I do that.

00:45:46.000 There's a young woman who wrote in who was about to commit suicide and ended up praying with the app the night before she ended her life, and she realized that God was present, that he was with her in the bathroom where she was trying to end her life, and he saved her life, and she dedicated the rest of her life to serving him and has been for the last three years.

00:46:01.000 And it's like, man, I would do that for the rest of my life.

00:46:04.000 If you told me, hey, you're going to work for 50 years, everyone's going to hate you, you're going to be thrown in jail, they're going to kill you, they're going to take all your money, your family, everything.

00:46:11.000 But you get to do...

00:46:13.000 You get to be one small part in this young woman not ending her life and journeying closer to the Lord.

00:46:19.000 It's like, yeah, I'd do that forever.

00:46:21.000 And so for you, it's like you have this really unique way.

00:46:24.000 And ability and gift that God has given you to reach out to folks, especially folks who don't take, you know, traditional faith or a traditional relationship with Jesus seriously.

00:46:33.000 And, you know, you have this focus on the spiritual aspect of it, which for me is the thing that changed my own life.

00:46:38.000 It's the only thing we're trying to focus on and how, and I think is the core of faith is this radical, beautiful mysticism and spirituality that changes the life.

00:46:46.000 So I think for us, it's like you have this...

00:46:48.000 gift of reaching out to folks in a really unique way and folks where, you know, like other people really struggle to reach out to them in a way that resonates with them.

00:46:59.000 And so I think you have this tremendous gift to use whatever platform God has given you to glorify him.

00:47:03.000 But yeah, you certainly, I think for me, at least it's, you know, cutting off many hands so that I don't sin and I try to give my heart fully to the Lord.

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00:48:32.000 Alex, there's a lot you said, obviously, but when you talked about St. Teresa of Avalon and John of the Cross there, and that radical detachment and radical surrender, if Christ isn't at the centre of that, it becomes a kind of insanity.

00:48:56.000 Isn't it peculiar how much ambiguity...

00:49:00.000 This ambivalence and paradox is found in this world of the spirit, that if it isn't devoted to him, it becomes a kind of insanity.

00:49:12.000 Someone sent me Chesterton, G.K. Chesterton's book on St. Francis.

00:49:18.000 I just sort of like opened it, you know, like checking it out.

00:49:22.000 It's not something I knew anything about.

00:49:25.000 He says that Cheston's writing of St. Francis, and I think speculatively, because I don't know what kind of documentation St. Francis leaves.

00:49:33.000 I've not looked into it.

00:49:34.000 He said a few things, Cheston.

00:49:37.000 One of the things is, he goes, landscape painters sometimes would look at the landscape they were painting upside down to get a better perspective on it.

00:49:48.000 St. Francis had experienced this radical inversion.

00:49:52.000 We were all...

00:49:53.000 All told as boys, says Chesterton, that if you burrowed down into the centre of the earth, there will be some pivotal moment where you didn't feel like you were going down anymore, but that you were coming up towards the surface on the other side.

00:50:08.000 St. Francis was in a cave, he says, and like all of us, you know, Joseph in the pit, you know, Jonah in the belly, our Lord.

00:50:18.000 In the tomb.

00:50:21.000 All of us go into this place.

00:50:23.000 In it, you describe this thing, right?

00:50:25.000 This really blows my mind, because I just had this moment of personal collapse and despair yesterday.

00:50:29.000 I have them pretty frequently.

00:50:30.000 It seems like it's sort of part of being me, a bit like when you were saying that thing, the knots in your neck and your back and all that, and the transformation of sending the text out after me in that sort of earthly moment of salvation through, not through transaction, but through relationship, for surely he is relational, essence, free person in one God.

00:50:49.000 I had this moment of collapse, and And I went into the room and someone had sent me this St. Francis thing.

00:50:56.000 And there was one moment where he says, the word dependency literally means hung upon.

00:51:02.000 Hung upon.

00:51:03.000 And like he was saying, reality is hung upon God's vision.

00:51:07.000 And I'd recently written this thing about sort of running into Trump.

00:51:14.000 Not running into him, actually.

00:51:16.000 Quite the opposite.

00:51:16.000 I didn't sort of see him.

00:51:17.000 But look at this.

00:51:17.000 I wrote this thing.

00:51:20.000 I went to Mar-a-Lago and there's this minute where Trump went up on the stage and I was praying the rosary, actually.

00:51:27.000 So I sort of missed the moment when I was meant to meet Trump because I was praying the rosary and doing my other prayers also.

00:51:34.000 So then I come back and I can hear Trump behind this garden wall, essentially.

00:51:40.000 And this is what I write.

00:51:42.000 Between the populace and pullulating pool where YMCA gladly played.

00:51:49.000 And his cordoned Mar-a-Lago quarters, I glimpsed the air-locked Donald Trump in repose as a member of security disclosed details or plausible logistics to the suspended president.

00:52:04.000 It was only 30 seconds and he couldn't see me staring, so I paused.

00:52:10.000 Once, through a telescope, I looked at Jupiter and in black and white breathed in his fragile moons.

00:52:19.000 724 million miles away, but present and immediate in my eye.

00:52:23.000 It is not the power of the King of Kings that strikes, but the precious vulnerability.

00:52:29.000 Jupiter hung upon the tender thread of the moment to which we are all hostage.

00:52:36.000 And this...

00:52:38.000 This description that Chesterton offers of St. Francis' vision of the world, the person that goes into the moment of despair, like we all must if we're to find God, to dedicate ourselves to God, absolutely.

00:52:50.000 And this description of the world of sort of being hung upon God.

00:52:54.000 Hung upon God's greatness and grace.

00:52:57.000 And this necessity of despair, like you've described in this conversation, it's the suicidal, it's the drug addicted, it's the parent that loses a child, it's the heartbreak and the hopelessness that in the end shows you that the world will not work for you and that the world and its institutions, as you've said as well, have fallen into the hands of the evil one.

00:53:18.000 And it's through this brokenness and despair, but that a new covenant is achieved by His grace.

00:53:26.000 And, yeah, I know that, you know, it's not a question, is it?

00:53:31.000 It's just an announcement, really.

00:53:33.000 It's beautiful.

00:53:35.000 I recognize that you, thanks, thanks, thanks, Alex.

00:53:39.000 I recognize that you're on it, like, that you are able, like, so I meet someone that's developed an app or whatever.

00:53:45.000 I figure that...

00:53:46.000 You know, when I project myself onto your situation, I think, I'd be like, yeah, man! 1.00

00:53:51.000 I've got an app, motherfucker! 0.99

00:53:54.000 And then I see that you have, you know, not bypassed it, surpassed it, transcended it, hand in hand with him. 0.99

00:54:03.000 I think it's, I mean, that last point is, you said a lot of things in there, obviously, that are pretty interesting.

00:54:09.000 The last point is a fascinating one.

00:54:10.000 I actually had this question from somebody that said, recently, That somebody said, like, do you think that by being more devout, God will give you a more successful company or a more successful startup or app or whatever it is?

00:54:28.000 And it's like, you know, no, it's exactly radically the opposite.

00:54:34.000 You know, like he, the closer you get to Christ.

00:54:38.000 The heavier the crosses He gives you.

00:54:40.000 And the more you want them, the more you desire to suffer for His glory so that your soul can be transformed to grow closer to Him.

00:54:49.000 And the more you realize your humility.

00:54:53.000 There's this analogy of discovering sin.

00:54:59.000 I think it was some pastor who told me it.

00:55:02.000 It was like driving a car.

00:55:04.000 And if you're driving away from the sun, you can't see any of the cracks.

00:55:08.000 In your windshield or the fog or the dirt or whatever it is.

00:55:11.000 But as soon as you turn back towards the sun, you see everything.

00:55:13.000 You see all these imperfections.

00:55:15.000 And as you journey closer to the Lord, it has to be founded in humility.

00:55:20.000 And again, I'm obsessed with St. Teresa of Aviles outside her all the time.

00:55:24.000 But she has this radical humility as she deepens in her relationship with the Lord.

00:55:30.000 And to the point where she's this incredibly holy nun. 0.51

00:55:36.000 Lives her life trying to build up the church and to serve the poor, and she says she is the chief among all sinners, like St. Paul.

00:55:42.000 She can't imagine someone a worse sinner than her, which is such a radical thing to say.

00:55:50.000 But it is this, what you said, which I thought was really beautiful, is these radical contradictions.

00:55:58.000 In our faith.

00:56:00.000 I guess they're not contradictions, but what feel like contradictions for us.

00:56:04.000 Like these two sides of things, and we so often use them to divide ourselves as Christians, but these two sides of things that God is both.

00:56:11.000 Like, He is radical love and radical mercy.

00:56:14.000 Yes.

00:56:15.000 Absolutely.

00:56:15.000 He is also radical truth and radical perfection and radical righteousness and radical justice.

00:56:22.000 He is both.

00:56:23.000 He holds both of them together.

00:56:24.000 And what you said is like, yeah, in journeying deeper in a relationship with Him, and it's funny because it mostly happens for me and for the stuff that we do on Halloween in silence.

00:56:35.000 Spending time with him in silence, or maybe at a rosary at Mar-a-Lago, which is awesome.

00:56:42.000 I think it was St. John Paul II or something who said, of all the treasures of the Vatican, of all the art in the Vatican, there's billions and billions of dollars of treasures in Vatican, a lot of which is buried, a lot of which the public can't even see.

00:56:55.000 He says, there is no greater treasure than the beads on my rosary.

00:56:59.000 There's no greater treasure.

00:57:00.000 But it is this contradiction where it's like, okay, well, if I want to become better, I have to humble myself.

00:57:07.000 I have to become lower.

00:57:08.000 And as I become lower, Christ lifts me up.

00:57:11.000 It's like what he says, like, take the last seat at the table so that I, as the master of the ceremony, can come and bring you to the better seat.

00:57:17.000 But your job is to humble yourself. 0.87

00:57:19.000 Your job is to die to yourself completely.

00:57:21.000 And, like, what you said is, yeah, the St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross stuff, you can run into the trap also there, where it's like, hey, it's my job to die to myself and to fast and to do all these really intense things.

00:57:31.000 And what that does naturally, actually, is it builds up your ego.

00:57:35.000 And it's like, oh, I'm a big deal.

00:57:36.000 Like, I can fast, I pray all the time, I do all this cool stuff.

00:57:39.000 And so what you need is this...

00:57:41.000 No, actually, you can't even fast.

00:57:44.000 You can't do anything except through Christ.

00:57:47.000 The only thing you can do is through Christ.

00:57:50.000 He has to be the center of everything, and he's the end to which you're aiming.

00:57:55.000 You're trying to get there.

00:57:56.000 He's the model that you follow, and he's the one who makes it happen, him with his spirit.

00:58:01.000 And your point on St. Francis, I love Chesterton's phenomenal.

00:58:05.000 He has all these amazing quotes.

00:58:07.000 There was some newspaper that was sent out, and they ask, What is wrong with the world?

00:58:12.000 And they ask for people to submit answers to it, and G.K. Chesterton submits an answer.

00:58:17.000 He's a famous author at this point.

00:58:18.000 He submits an answer, and it just says, I am.

00:58:21.000 And he has—it's just like, yes, it's this—but his St. Francis book is beautiful.

00:58:26.000 I haven't read it in a while, but I should reread it.

00:58:28.000 But St. Francis, again, to your point, he encounters Christ.

00:58:33.000 And he has this radical transformation, this radical transformation, where he gives away everything.

00:58:38.000 And his father takes him to court in front of the bishop, and he throws off all his clothes, and he says, I'm not yours.

00:58:44.000 I'm not part of this world anymore.

00:58:45.000 I am going to dedicate myself completely to the Lord.

00:58:47.000 And he goes and lives this crazy life.

00:58:49.000 And Chesterton has this other thing where he calls it the five deaths of the church.

00:58:53.000 And I think it's a really interesting way to think about our life, where most people think of Christianity and faith as this line.

00:59:00.000 Where it just grows kind of gradually with time.

00:59:03.000 And then, you know, it felt like, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, it felt like it was coming down.

00:59:07.000 Like the new atheism, whatever, the rise of all this stuff.

00:59:09.000 It's like it felt like the world was becoming secular and Christianity was dying. 0.58

00:59:12.000 And so people were like, oh, no, Christianity is dying.

00:59:14.000 That's an old thing.

00:59:15.000 It's a thing of the past.

00:59:16.000 We're not doing that anymore.

00:59:17.000 And what Chesterton says is it has always felt like Christianity does not rise like a line.

00:59:22.000 It does not go up and to the right.

00:59:24.000 It is this...

00:59:27.000 This historical pattern of death and resurrection, which follows our Lord.

00:59:31.000 It feels often.

00:59:32.000 It is felt many times.

00:59:34.000 Christianity was dying in the world. 0.68

00:59:36.000 But it does not die, and his line is beautiful.

00:59:38.000 It cannot die because we have a God who knows his way out of the grave.

00:59:41.000 But you think about the history of the church.

00:59:43.000 You've got, obviously, the death of Jesus.

00:59:44.000 Everybody thinks Christianity is done then.

00:59:46.000 Then you kill all the apostles except one and send the one to exile, and you think the church is done then.

00:59:50.000 And then it's, okay, well, it becomes Rome's religion, which is awesome.

00:59:53.000 But then Rome falls, and usually when a...

00:59:58.000 And then you have the rise of Islam, which is this massive, like, it takes off like wildfire you think is going to overtake the world, and it doesn't, and it bounces, but Christianity fights back. 1.00

01:00:07.000 And then you have this, you know, the enlightenment and the...

01:00:12.000 Darwin and evolution, and you think Christianity is dead, and it bounces back, and then you have this new atheism.

01:00:18.000 And St. Francis, again, like St. Francis' story is he looks around a thousand years ago and sees the church is destroyed, and he hears God say, rebuild my church.

01:00:26.000 And so he goes and rebuilds his church.

01:00:28.000 So it's like Christianity is this story of death and resurrection, which follows, you know, it follows Scripture, obviously.

01:00:33.000 You read the story of the Israelites.

01:00:34.000 It follows the Old Testament.

01:00:35.000 Like, they abandon God, and then they come back to God, and it follows our own personal life, like this process of this death.

01:00:41.000 This death and resurrection.

01:00:43.000 He said one more thing that really stuck out, too, because it's this beautiful mystical point, which is, like, it's funny for me, at least, like, the times that are the toughest, the times where I most despair, the times where I feel like, you know, I'm at the lowest, is also the times where I notice God's presence the most.

01:01:03.000 Like, it's the time where I feel closest to Him, which is, it sucks, because it's like, man, I wish...

01:01:08.000 I wish I didn't have to go through these terrible things, which in the grand scheme of things are certainly not terrible things, but I wish I didn't have to go through these to grow closer to them.

01:01:17.000 And I was reflecting with my co-founder the other day of how frustrating it must be to be Satan, where he tries to use these things to pull you away from him.

01:01:28.000 These things of the world or these things of despair or a bunch of people hating you, but if as a Christian you can...

01:01:35.000 Give them to christ if you can if you can let christ into those moments It's the very things that god uses to bring you closest to him So it's like as a crit you have this superpower like satan attacks you and it's the very thing that god uses To to grow closest to him and at the the dark is always that the night is always darkest right before the dawn This is again st. John of the cross where he has this He's another great mystic,

01:01:58.000 but he has this parable of the spiritual life or this story of the spiritual life is journeying through these dark nights and ascending the mountain.

01:02:06.000 And what happens as you grow deeper in your faith is it's not like you feel great and happy and joyful all the time.

01:02:12.000 Hopefully you try to grow in joy, but you don't feel happy.

01:02:15.000 Your emotions certainly aren't elated and you don't feel positive all the time.

01:02:18.000 Often it's very difficult.

01:02:20.000 Often the journey is very hard.

01:02:22.000 Like Mother Teresa says in her diary, I felt abandoned by God for decades.

01:02:26.000 Not little periods of time, like really long, like very difficult journeys.

01:02:30.000 But that God uses those times as opportunities for purification.

01:02:35.000 He uses them to humble you, which is great.

01:02:38.000 I've experienced many opportunities where I've been humbled.

01:02:40.000 And then bring you deeper into a relationship with Him through that.

01:02:44.000 Because the humble, the meek shall inherit the earth, not the proud and the big. 1.00

01:02:47.000 And so we have to like, okay, well, it's kind of like if you were working out.

01:02:52.000 And you were, whatever.

01:02:54.000 I certainly am not.

01:02:55.000 But you're a very advanced personal trainer or something.

01:02:57.000 And somebody comes to you and they're like, well, how do I know that I'm advancing?

01:03:00.000 How do I know that I'm getting stronger?

01:03:02.000 How do I know that my body is getting more in shape, healthier?

01:03:05.000 And the person would respond like, well, when your muscles really, really hurt, when it's like almost...

01:03:11.000 Not pain, not physical pain, but where they're sore.

01:03:14.000 You can barely lift anything.

01:03:16.000 It's hard for you to walk.

01:03:17.000 That's when your muscles are growing the most.

01:03:19.000 So that's what you want to seek after.

01:03:21.000 And as a person, not knowing what it takes to work out, you'd be like, that's really weird.

01:03:26.000 That's a very odd...

01:03:28.000 For me to get healthy, you want me to hurt?

01:03:30.000 It's supposed to be like I can't lift anything?

01:03:32.000 I thought the point was that I do lift things.

01:03:34.000 And the point is like, yeah, it's through this process that you're made stronger.

01:03:39.000 And it's the same thing with the spiritual life.

01:03:41.000 It's like, okay, well, how do I know that I'm advancing?

01:03:43.000 And it's like, well, when you feel really humbled, when you feel like you're smaller than everybody else, when you feel like you're destroyed, when you feel like you're beat down, like that.

01:03:50.000 That is your muscles being sore.

01:03:52.000 That is you, your soul being purified, your soul being brought deeper into a relationship with the Lord so that it's no longer you who live but Christ who lives within you.

01:03:59.000 And Christ is the perfect example of these contradictions because he's God.

01:04:04.000 God.

01:04:05.000 He is the most powerful human that ever lived ever.

01:04:08.000 And yet he humbled himself becoming obedient even to the point of death on a cross.

01:04:12.000 And because of this, God greatly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name that at the name of Jesus, every knee shall bend and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

01:04:20.000 And it's to the glory of God, the Father.

01:04:22.000 And it's like, okay, so God...

01:04:24.000 And he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped at.

01:04:27.000 So the only person who could consider themselves equal with God did not require, did not view equality with God something to be grasped at.

01:04:34.000 And yet what, like, that is the story of humanity.

01:04:36.000 We are the ones who aren't worthy of that, and yet we grasp at it.

01:04:39.000 And as soon as we, like, let go of that, then he makes us like himself.

01:04:42.000 Like, he transforms us from one image of glory to the other.

01:04:45.000 So it's this, not hilarious, but it's this radical contradiction, it seems to us, of...

01:04:51.000 You know, to gain, to advance, we have to let go.

01:04:54.000 We have to die. 0.93

01:04:55.000 To get everything, we have to die to ourselves. 0.99

01:04:57.000 Like, we don't puff ourselves up.

01:04:59.000 We humble ourselves and we die to ourselves in every moment, which is this radical thing.

01:05:02.000 But then God fills us with this glory and ultimately himself.

01:05:05.000 Like, he is the one sitting at the center of your heart.

01:05:07.000 Once you die to yourself, once you clear away all these clingings and vanities and whatever, he is the one, St. Teresa of Avila says, or even St. Paul says, St. Augustine says, Christ is closer to myself than I am to myself.

01:05:17.000 And so it's this, like, beautiful...

01:05:19.000 At the center of yourself is Christ.

01:05:21.000 And so if you can rid all these worldly things, all these attachments, die to yourself, you let Christ have you and live through you.

01:05:28.000 The delicious irony is that I imagine you could describe that in binary, which is a language that I would like to see it rendered in, that there is some absolute code.

01:05:39.000 Alex, thank you so much for joining us today on Stay Free with Russell Brand.

01:05:43.000 In spite of his rather evocative name in this space, Alex Jones is the CEO and co-founder of Halo.

01:05:51.000 This is a perfect time to sign up to Hallow, and if you use our code, you get a discount and can join many brilliant leaders in this space for the period of Lent.

01:06:01.000 Use our code to get a discount on that.

01:06:04.000 Thanks again, Alex.

01:06:06.000 Thanks.

01:06:06.000 Appreciate you, Sharon.

01:06:09.000 Well, thanks very much for joining us for the show today.

01:06:11.000 We will be back tomorrow.

01:06:12.000 Not with more of the same.

01:06:14.000 Will we be back tomorrow?

01:06:15.000 No, we will be back next week.

01:06:17.000 Not with more of the same, but more of the different.

01:06:18.000 And that different includes a conversation with Dan Crenshaw as long as great insights and analysis of the week's news.

01:06:25.000 See you then.

01:06:26.000 In the meantime, if you can, please stay free.

01:06:28.000 Switch

01:06:50.000 on, switch on, switch on. Switch on, switch off.

01:07:00.000 Just want you to find me.

01:07:03.000 Many switching.

01:07:04.000 Switch on.

01:07:06.000 Many switching.

01:07:07.000 Switch on, switch on, switch on Men switch in, switch on, switch on Men switch in Switch on. 0.55

01:07:19.000 Many switching.

01:07:20.000 Switch on.

01:07:24.000 Many switching.

01:07:25.000 Switch on.

01:07:30.000 Man, you switch in, switch on, switch on.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - March 06, 2025

Tariff War Begins: Trudeau Threatens Retaliation Against Trump – SF549

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