Stay Free - Russel Brand - The Economics of Disease: Why the System Wants You Sick - SF513

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:03:15.000 In this video, you're going to see the future.

00:03:18.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:03:30.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:03:32.000 This is an extraordinary show.

00:03:33.000 If you're watching us on YouTube, we're only going to be there for 15 minutes.

00:03:37.000 So, yay, like if you want, comment if you feel inclined, and subscribe immediately and turn on the notification bell because the Trusted News Initiative, the media union that ensures harmony between mainstream media resources, will not like this conversation and will not want you to hear it.

00:03:53.000 If the world of academia, politics and big food were ever to have a Justin Bieber, it would be this man.

00:04:00.000 A fresh-faced youngster that emerged seemingly from nowhere to become one of the most influential voices in American health.

00:04:09.000 I'm talking about Cali Means, whose ideas and policies changed the conversation Not only in America, but across the world.

00:04:16.000 When it comes to the economics of health and the ecology of sickness that is required to maintain control of America, American lives and American finances.

00:04:28.000 Your sickness is their profit.

00:04:30.000 In some extraordinary miracle of alchemy, in some sort of cosmic ordained event, Cali Means has moved from the periphery To the very heart of this establishment as a result of the Maha movement, the rise of Bobby Kennedy and the victory of Donald Trump in the recent election.

00:04:47.000 So Callie Means, who I used to speak to a couple of years ago, as an interesting ingenue and writer and expert.

00:04:54.000 But former employee of Big Food, he worked at Coca-Cola, is now like talking to someone who, praise God, could be integrally involved in creating a better, new, healthier America.

00:05:07.000 What an honour it is to introduce Callie Means.

00:05:09.000 Welcome, Callie.

00:05:11.000 It's great to be here, Russell.

00:05:13.000 You're too kind.

00:05:15.000 Man, like they do say to men in the position you find yourself in now, well, now the hard work begins in earnest.

00:05:23.000 What are the challenges that you imagine will be faced?

00:05:27.000 Because even though we have the near miracle of a man like Marty Makkari as head of the FDA, an outspoken opponent of the policies that the government implemented during the pandemic era, or a man like Jay Bhattacharya, One of the writers and signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration,

00:05:44.000 who was smeared and attacked at Stanford University for saying things we now know to be true, and evidently with his rise to the head of the NIH, that's the research arm of the health institutions that are responsible for American health, with these men rising into power, with men like Aaron Seary addressing some of the issues around medicines and certain near-mandated medications that you might receive in your arm, but you might find up...

00:06:09.000 Find wind up in your heart.

00:06:11.000 And most notably, I would say, yourself being in a position of influence.

00:06:17.000 How do you think the ideas and power and motivation that we all experienced in the Maha movement will be impacted by the fact that now there is access to the levers of real power?

00:06:30.000 What challenges are you experiencing and imagining that you will face coming forward?

00:06:36.000 Here's the bottom line, Russell.

00:06:38.000 When I hear you ask about that, and it is astounding complexity that's becoming very real.

00:06:43.000 I mean, this is the largest part of the U.S. economy that Bobby Kennedy is taking over.

00:06:47.000 It's the largest and fastest growing department in government.

00:06:51.000 It's actually the HHS is the highest budget for any government department of any government in world history.

00:06:57.000 I mean, it is the biggest part of our budget.

00:07:00.000 The complexity is astounding.

00:07:03.000 And listening to you kind of set that up, I think it sets up perfectly.

00:07:05.000 There's a big complicated journey ahead.

00:07:08.000 I go back to the campaign.

00:07:09.000 I mean, it's much larger than me, but You, you know, we're talking about these issues for years, the corporate capture, the incentives of our healthcare system to profit from when we're sick, just like the military-industrial complex profits from more wars.

00:07:23.000 You know, the defining issue, whether it's in Europe or whether it's in the U.S. or throughout the developed world, I think it's the defining historical issue of our time is the co-option of our institutions.

00:07:33.000 You know, the American people want to thrive.

00:07:35.000 You see it.

00:07:35.000 You were just saying the great people you're living around in Florida.

00:07:42.000 In pain that want to be, you know, in a bad situation, but that's happening to an astounding degree.

00:07:48.000 And I just go back to the campaign.

00:07:50.000 I think there was a spiritual connection that went from independent media to the top of the national conversation.

00:07:55.000 It was really a grassroots movement for people that listen to you, people that listen to Tucker, Joe Rogan, and, you know, even podcasts on the left.

00:08:02.000 They're talking about this issue, issues for years.

00:08:06.000 And what my big What I'm really thinking about right now is let's keep it simple.

00:08:13.000 What's happening with Bobby and with Jay and with Marty and with Dr. Oz, with Jim O'Neill, my friend who's going to be the Deputy Secretary, these are incredible picks and they're getting dragged into complexity.

00:08:24.000 I think evil hides the complexity.

00:08:25.000 We were just talking before we came on.

00:08:27.000 You know, in their heads, these pharma executives and the hospital executives, they don't want to profit from sick kids, but they have plausible deniability because the system is so complex and they don't have the full kind of authority to stop it.

00:08:39.000 So all of these interests are now coming to bear.

00:08:42.000 And I think what we need to do to help Bobby is keep it on that high level, aspirational, big themes that we talked about during the campaign.

00:08:51.000 And that's what we're doing.

00:08:52.000 You know, obviously, we've got to create an action plan for this 80,000 person department.

00:08:57.000 But we can't lose sight of the big things we talked about.

00:09:01.000 So let's just go through the list.

00:09:02.000 The NIH, as you said, the research arm, they dictate research and the standard of care throughout the world.

00:09:07.000 And right now, 80% of those grants have conflicts of interest.

00:09:10.000 Like literally the foundation of our care structure in the world, we transport it throughout the world in America, says that if you have heart disease, it's a statin issue.

00:09:19.000 If you have obesity, you need ozempic.

00:09:21.000 If you have depression, one size fits all, SSRIs.

00:09:25.000 They recently did a psychiatry conference with the NIH and Harvard, and they could not find a psychiatrist who wasn't paid by SSRI makers.

00:09:31.000 We have this one size fits all intervention-based system, and just get the conflicts out.

00:09:36.000 Let's just actually figure out You know, whatever you think of vaccines, what they're doing to kids.

00:09:41.000 Like, why are we hiding that research?

00:09:43.000 Why are we hiding research on more personalized mental health solutions?

00:09:46.000 So it comes a lot with the research.

00:09:47.000 You go to the FDA, get the corruption out of the FDA. 75% of it's funded by pharma.

00:09:51.000 We can start there.

00:09:52.000 Why is the FDA funded by pharma?

00:09:54.000 Then you get to Dr. Oz, this boring department called CMS. CMS has a larger budget than the defense and intelligence agencies.

00:10:01.000 It's the biggest single, you know, sub-entity of any organization.

00:10:05.000 It has a $1.4 billion budget.

00:10:08.000 It enshrines every CARE standard that we have in America.

00:10:11.000 And again, it's that one-size-fits-all.

00:10:13.000 So let's have more flexibility.

00:10:14.000 There's these basic points that we can't lose sight of to transform our system.

00:10:19.000 I think that's a big focusing team right now.

00:10:21.000 Let's keep it high level.

00:10:23.000 Let's deliver wins for President Trump.

00:10:25.000 And let's not get lost in the minutiae.

00:10:28.000 You listed some pretty profound facts just there right off the bat.

00:10:31.000 80% of studies have a conflict of interest in the current setup of the NIH. The FDA gets 75% of its funding, in certain areas at least, from corporations that it's meant to regulate.

00:10:44.000 And whether it comes to matters of the head, mental illness, or the heart with the statin crisis, it seems that there's baked-in corruption across the board. 0.97

00:10:53.000 Now, for years we've become used to the legacy media, attacking Donald Trump as a misanthrope, misogynist, criminal, racist, rapist, whatever words were available to prevent his assent. 0.96

00:11:04.000 And I must confess that there were times where I was vulnerable to that pervasive propaganda. 0.56

00:11:11.000 For a moment, if we look at the case of Bobby Kennedy, who, as you've just explained, is in charge of the largest government budget, or departmental budget at least, in world history, what do you think is the significance of the way that he is treated in soft propaganda outlets like SNL,

00:11:29.000 late night talk shows, the constant mocking It's always in order to point out that he was a drug addict or That he left a dead whale

00:12:00.000 on the roof of his car.

00:12:01.000 Or the kind of trite and trivial pieces of information that are often elevated and amplified to discredit people in petitions of power.

00:12:09.000 How real is that power?

00:12:11.000 And what interests, knowingly or otherwise, are being amplified by those soft propaganda entities?

00:12:19.000 And what are the financial ties, might you imagine, Callie, that would mean that that flow of information would have the trajectory that it does?

00:12:29.000 So let me break this down.

00:12:30.000 That's a great question, Russell.

00:12:33.000 Let me take you behind the scenes.

00:12:34.000 And this is the truth.

00:12:37.000 We are having deep, you know, behind closed doors meetings about what to do with health care.

00:12:43.000 And the directive is simple from Bobby, and the mandate is simple.

00:12:47.000 How do kids get healthier in this country?

00:12:49.000 I have not witnessed one word of ideology.

00:12:52.000 I have not witnessed one word of somebody having some kind of hidden agenda that is always inferred, you know, in the New York Times.

00:12:59.000 It is truly rolling up the sleeves.

00:13:02.000 How do we figure out how to reverse this shameful chronic disease crisis, particularly among children?

00:13:07.000 This 50% of teens being obese or overweight.

00:13:12.000 Now, just reported last week, 38% of teens having prediabetes.

00:13:16.000 You know, this is a unique situation in America.

00:13:19.000 3% of kids in Japan are obese.

00:13:21.000 And that is what is being talked about.

00:13:23.000 And it is a really...

00:13:24.000 It's a heady time right now, and a really, I think, inspiring time, where Bobby is trying to summon the biggest experts in the world, people that were vehemently against him.

00:13:33.000 He's talking to everyone.

00:13:34.000 And it's truly, how do we change the incentives?

00:13:36.000 Because Americans want to be healthy.

00:13:37.000 You know, I always talk about how people live six years longer in Italy.

00:13:41.000 It's not because we're lazier than Italians.

00:13:42.000 You know many Italians. 0.59

00:13:43.000 I don't think Americans are innately lazier or more suicidal.

00:13:46.000 There's something wrong with our incentives.

00:13:48.000 So that's what's being talked about.

00:13:49.000 And I think that's the core of what connected during the campaign.

00:13:52.000 You know, 92% of deaths in America are chronic conditions, lifestyle conditions.

00:13:57.000 As we've talked about and what the book's about, right?

00:13:59.000 Heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, which is called type 3 diabetes, highly related to metabolic dysfunction, obesity, even depression.

00:14:06.000 These are all multifaceted and tied together.

00:14:10.000 And what Bobby's talking about is why is 95% of our medical spending after people get sick on drugs and interventions to manage it and profit from it?

00:14:17.000 How do we actually, you know, take a depressed child's take?

00:14:21.000 And instead of giving them a quick SSRI and just putting them on that treadmill, figuring out if they're looking at the sun, figuring out if they're eating healthy food, figuring out if they're moving.

00:14:29.000 We can incentivize those things with our medical system.

00:14:31.000 We spend $4.5 trillion.

00:14:33.000 So here's what happens and taking it to how he's being caricatured.

00:14:37.000 Let's just take one by one.

00:14:38.000 So he's getting assaulted by Saturday Night Live and assaulted by the media.

00:14:42.000 It's very simple, right?

00:14:43.000 Their funding, you watch Saturday Night Live, you see pharma ads.

00:14:47.000 Pharma, as we've talked about time and time again, is the biggest contributor of ad dollars to corporate media.

00:14:52.000 So it's just this clubby atmosphere of, oh, this whack job is talking about how these drugs aren't effective and how he's attacking science.

00:14:59.000 And that bleeds into the coverage.

00:15:01.000 It bleeds into the narrative.

00:15:02.000 Then you've got the kind of fancy academics.

00:15:04.000 Well, let's look at those academics.

00:15:06.000 50% of Harvard Med School's budget somehow touches pharma.

00:15:10.000 You know, academic institutions and hospitals are the largest employer in the country, the hospital systems, when you add them all up, right?

00:15:18.000 So these are big businesses that just make money and are fueled by Americans continue to get sick.

00:15:25.000 So it's just fashionable to say how ridiculous it is for Bobby to be talking about these hippie concepts like healthy eating, as opposed to serious medicine like cutting people open or prescribing drugs.

00:15:36.000 And that thought just permeates all, and it goes to just financial interests.

00:15:41.000 The pharmaceutical industry is the largest funder of money to the media, to academic research, to medical organizations, to politicians themselves.

00:15:49.000 As we talked about, they fund the regulatory agencies themselves.

00:15:52.000 So it creates this immune response of the system to call Bobby a wacko for pointing out that 92% of deaths are chronic conditions.

00:16:00.000 Which is, in and of itself, at a macro level, I think very evil.

00:16:04.000 I think it's very evil.

00:16:05.000 And I think it's not working quite as well.

00:16:08.000 And we have to stay.

00:16:09.000 We all get it.

00:16:11.000 Everyone watching this, I think, felt something really important and spiritual during the campaign when Bobby talked about this.

00:16:17.000 And we just have to, he's right.

00:16:19.000 And if the people are on his side, and he continues to have our support, and frankly, President Trump, who I can tell you is hellbent on making this a legacy issue.

00:16:27.000 He is absolutely, he wants this to be in the history books.

00:16:34.000 So we just got to support them.

00:16:36.000 It's pretty extraordinary, isn't it, to imagine that something as unifying, evident and obvious as the health of children could be subject to media attacks and propaganda.

00:16:53.000 A unifying idea, if ever there was one, is the notion that our first duty is the protection of our kids.

00:17:00.000 That's the function of all of us as parents, but as adults more broadly, not just from an emotional and sentimental perspective, but from a Gosh, even if you were to take the harshest, most evolutionary perspective imaginable, the assurance of the ongoing survival of our species would dictate that protecting children and their wellbeing would go beyond the kind of tribal dictates of contemporary politics.

00:17:25.000 And it's very heartening to hear you say, Callie, that when policy is being discussed, it's not ideological and tribal, but based on true utility and the function of the agencies that you've outlined there.

00:17:37.000 It's very curious to me, too, that Trump I have come to regard as a kind of American mystic.

00:17:44.000 That America created this creature, this mystic prophet born of free market capitalism, entrepreneurialism, real estate building.

00:17:56.000 Of course, if there were to be an American prophet born of the American imagination, he would have his name on the top of his towers.

00:18:03.000 He would play golf the whole time.

00:18:06.000 Of course, he would live on McDonald's and Coca-Cola, and like me, I'm sure you've chuckled at the image of Bobby Kennedy wolfing down sugar and salt and seed oils on that private plane flight.

00:18:18.000 But nevertheless, politics goes proper.

00:18:21.000 Politics must always go beyond the personal, and always go beyond the weaponizations of institutions, whether that's the judiciary or institutions within healthcare.

00:18:31.000 It seems like, put plainly, America has grown accustomed to the profits and politics of sickness, and the profits and politics of war, that we've created such a warped ideology, presumably through sleepwalking,

00:18:47.000 for surely no one would consciously do this, no human entity, certainly no godly entity, would deliberately create an economy That required sick children to sustain itself, yet thanks to the kind of conversations that you've started, I know that there's nothing more profitable to America than a sick child for life on a Zempick or some kind of Ritalin or whatever it is these days.

00:19:11.000 But if you have an economy...

00:19:13.000 That has two massive and powerful entities like Big Food and Big Pharma requiring sickness and the perpetuation of their products in order to succeed.

00:19:24.000 And that's before you start looking at agriculture and the agricultural requirements.

00:19:27.000 It's very difficult to implement policies that arrest that.

00:19:31.000 And my concern is, Callie, That even with the incredible mandate that Trump has enjoyed, and even with the refined arguments that Bobby Kennedy is able to articulate, and even with the excellent team assembled around him, yourself, Aaron Siri, Jim O'Neill, Marty Makari, and obviously Jay Bhattacharya, there's still a sense that...

00:19:55.000 Corporate capture could play a part.

00:19:57.000 Now what kind of, I wonder, darkness might play out?

00:20:01.000 I think I heard a story recently that the CEO of United Healthcare had possibly died under suspicious circumstances.

00:20:09.000 I'm obviously not making, conjecture or stipulated.

00:20:13.000 He was just murdered.

00:20:13.000 Right, so what's going on there?

00:20:15.000 He was just shot.

00:20:16.000 Well, it's tragic.

00:20:17.000 It's tragic.

00:20:18.000 The CEO of UnitedHealthcare was murdered.

00:20:22.000 It's on camera.

00:20:23.000 A hitman, it appears, shot him in the morning outside the Hilton Midtown in New York.

00:20:30.000 And he was actually a person that was talking about reform.

00:20:34.000 You know, we don't know any of the circumstances of this tragic story.

00:20:38.000 I think it does shed light in stepping away from that specific instance.

00:20:46.000 Healthcare is the largest and fastest growing industry in the country.

00:20:49.000 And there's something, again, I'm not implicating any one person, but there's something really, really dark about the incentives.

00:20:57.000 And I don't think anyone really denies that.

00:20:59.000 I mean, the pharmaceutical industry, the hospital industry, medical schools, insurance companies, all just demonstrably make more money when more Americans get sick.

00:21:08.000 And they have, just by mathematical statements of how they fund the regulatory agencies themselves and the medical schools and the politicians, they've taken over our regulatory systems.

00:21:23.000 I've met with a lot of Members of Congress and Senators, and they don't want to have sick kids, but always there's staffers slithering behind them.

00:21:32.000 And those staffers, you know, just looking at what happens, they're interviewing for their next job for the pharmaceutical industry, the hospital industry, their insurance industry.

00:21:40.000 With healthcare staffers, generally, there's just a revolving door.

00:21:43.000 And, you know, I think it's every single FDA administrator the past 20 years has gone almost directly to pharma.

00:21:49.000 I mean, this is very, very dark.

00:21:51.000 You know, being in this world, and it might not be surprising, but it's still pretty shocking.

00:21:57.000 You know, people are reaching out to me, and we're having conversations, and they're just making the direct argument that if we implement these policies that we all agree would make American children healthier, that it would be disastrous to jobs and disastrous to the economy.

00:22:13.000 And I think what you have right now is a huge problem that we need to have a sustained national conversation about, quite frankly, which is that we have healthcare and the healthcare economy.

00:22:24.000 The healthcare economy, which is the biggest part of the US economy, is completely antithetical to the health of Americans.

00:22:31.000 I think what's so important and historical about this time with Donald Trump, and I think we all agree, whether you love him or hate him, this was a monumental election in American history.

00:22:43.000 Is that, you know, we've got huge opportunity.

00:22:46.000 I mean, you've got Elon, you've got all the warriors on independent media like you.

00:22:50.000 We've got this great coalition.

00:22:51.000 I mean, going through Mar-a-Lago, it's a smarter, more impressive group of people and a more diverse group of people than any transition in American history.

00:22:59.000 Everyone's helping.

00:23:00.000 I mean, I'm blown away.

00:23:01.000 You've got Elon Musk basically living there.

00:23:03.000 I mean, just helping.

00:23:04.000 You've got just people from every single industry, the best and brightest coming to help.

00:23:08.000 There's a lot of optimism.

00:23:09.000 I think we can have a golden age, quite frankly, for pharmaceuticals and American healthcare.

00:23:14.000 I mean, there's nothing wrong, per se, with the pharmaceutical industry.

00:23:17.000 You know, we should have thriving innovation.

00:23:19.000 One thing, you know, that we're really digging in on the FDA is like, startups and innovative companies are not happy with the FDA. The FDA puts up $1 billion barriers to any type of drug approval, basically at the behest of big pharma.

00:23:32.000 The only drugs that are getting approved are You know, very non-innovative management techniques to profit from the chronic disease crisis.

00:23:39.000 We actually have an absolutely shameful lack of innovation in cancer therapies or rare disease therapies.

00:23:47.000 There's huge hurdles.

00:23:48.000 I mean, the cancer treatments that we have were created 100 years ago predominantly.

00:23:52.000 With chemotherapy, the book Emperor of All Maladies goes into this.

00:23:56.000 We spend $300 billion a year on cancer treatments, and cancer rates are going up.

00:24:01.000 They're at all-time highs this year.

00:24:03.000 So there's actually this road to deregulate, to work with Ilan and Vivek at the Government Efficiency Office and get the red tape out of the way.

00:24:12.000 To have innovation in pharma, and then flexibility where our healthcare dollars go, where it can absolutely go to drugs, but, you know, can Americans, if they are pre-diabetic, choose potentially to go to a food intervention to get a diet coach?

00:24:25.000 They would do this.

00:24:26.000 If Americans are incentivized to the right thing, they'll do it.

00:24:29.000 So I think there's this real optimistic, but, like, vision ahead, but it's...

00:24:35.000 It's gonna be a national conversation.

00:24:38.000 This has to be.

00:24:39.000 We have to change the business model of the healthcare industry to stop profiting from when people are sick and start rewarding American thriving and health.

00:24:46.000 We are going to cease to exist if that doesn't happen.

00:24:48.000 Kali, sorry to interrupt you there.

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00:26:05.000 When occasionally a shaft of light penetrates the dark and sticky fugue that appears to have enveloped these agencies and institutions, there is a moment where you recognise that through legislation and redirection there could be an optimistic We're good to

00:26:37.000 And therefore it is economically biased, the entire industry, towards the creation of vaccines and the near-mandating of vaccines and the scheduling of vaccines.

00:26:47.000 And because in this one area there is not the requirement for clinical trialling that is as intrepid or as thorough as in the drug research.

00:26:57.000 And when you say, like, Americans can be incentivized to live healthily, then in a proper and common sense version of American institutions and regulation, it will be possible for the same inspiration and same motivation to be applied at scale.

00:27:17.000 Making America healthy.

00:27:19.000 American Pharmaceutical Research being, as you have said, Callie, deployed in areas of pioneering expertise in order to look into new realms of oncology, new realms of heart disease, new realms of health.

00:27:32.000 What has to happen in order for that to take place is sort of pretty clear.

00:27:37.000 So what prevents, do you suppose, Callie, on day one of A banning of advertising of big pharma companies on legacy media channels, a banning of clinical trials being funded in the way that they are, a banning of food using the kind of ingredients that you've basically taught the world we shouldn't be having in the kind of densities and in the normalized way that we have been up to now.

00:28:02.000 Where does the opposition come from?

00:28:03.000 You refer to kind of slithering backstage interest behind folks in the Senate and in Congress.

00:28:09.000 What is the locust and location of these dark powers, and how does this new and emergent America attack it? 0.83

00:28:18.000 So, I'll go to the previous how it worked, and I think Bobby and President Trump and their mandate can change this, but imagine FDA in a previous administration.

00:28:29.000 If they even thought about touching or reviewing one chemical, these 10,000 chemicals in our food that aren't legal in any other country, they would be absolutely berated with letters from members of Congress saying, this is crazy, this is an attack on innovation, this is an attack on the farmers in my district.

00:28:45.000 So that's where the fact that there's five pharma lobbyists and three food lobbyists for every single member of Congress comes in.

00:28:52.000 They pay them.

00:28:53.000 They get the letters.

00:28:54.000 And that bureaucrat who's reviewing those standards at the FDA just gets pounded, pounded.

00:28:59.000 The president's getting a bunch of Calls from members of Congress and senators saying this is crazy.

00:29:03.000 And they play really, really aggressive because it's literally, if they did one small thing, it was just pound, pound, pound.

00:29:10.000 So that, oh gosh, the bureaucrats.

00:29:12.000 Oh, I'm getting bombarded by Congress.

00:29:13.000 We've got to slow down.

00:29:14.000 So that's one.

00:29:15.000 That's one.

00:29:15.000 Another way things get delayed.

00:29:17.000 Is just bureaucratic the blob?

00:29:19.000 So you can say you do something, but then the lawyers who are interviewed for their next job at Pharma inevitably deepen the administrations.

00:29:26.000 And I believe, frankly, and this is obviously clear, there's corrupt incentives and people being paid within the department itself.

00:29:35.000 It's okay.

00:29:36.000 The directive just gets kicked around, and then nine months later, oh, well, we're still looking at that.

00:29:40.000 So there's bureaucratic inviting people.

00:29:42.000 This is where I think the Doge and the Elon philosophy comes in.

00:29:45.000 I mean, I'm an Elon fanboy.

00:29:47.000 I'll admit it.

00:29:48.000 I think Elon's the most important.

00:29:50.000 I think Elon and Trump are the two Americans, two people in the world right now people are going to remember in history books in 50, 100 years.

00:29:56.000 Nobody's going to remember us.

00:29:58.000 They're the two seminal figures.

00:30:00.000 And the whole Elon philosophy of radical change, of firing 80% in the company, working better, of moving fast, I think in a weird way, actually thinking big might be better because we can have holistic conversations instead of getting the paper cuts on every single regulation.

00:30:16.000 What I'm hoping can happen is that when you talk to the food industry, for instance, you ask them behind closed doors, are you happy?

00:30:24.000 Do you think it's a good thing that demonstrably you make products that are less healthy in America, the exact same product you formulate for Europe?

00:30:31.000 Is that a good thing that demonstrably we all agree it's less healthy in America?

00:30:34.000 They're like, no, that's not good.

00:30:36.000 We asked them, is it good that we have so many chemicals in our food that we are not able to import a lot of our agriculture to Europe, which is the world's second largest market?

00:30:43.000 Is that a good thing?

00:30:44.000 Like, literally, that's true, right?

00:30:45.000 We can't even export most of our food.

00:30:47.000 No, that's not good.

00:30:48.000 So everyone kind of agrees that there's a problem.

00:30:51.000 And I think potentially with Trump and RFK bringing light to this and bringing big thinking, You know, I'm optimistic we can get stakeholders together and actually figure out how to unwind some of this.

00:31:02.000 And I will say, you know, this isn't on the food front.

00:31:04.000 It's not just the food industry.

00:31:06.000 I mean, this is, they've held their hands with government to create a totally corrupt subsidy system, where right now, our third, excuse me, our fourth largest entitlement program goes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and then SNAP. We'd spend $150 billion for, you know, food sustenance for lower-income Americans, 15% of Americans depend on this program.

00:31:25.000 You know, it's a government failure too that 18% of that money, it's 18% now go to sugary drinks and that money is basically funding poison for lower income Americans to drive up healthcare costs and destroy the human capital of our population.

00:31:38.000 You know, unwinding these structures Isn't just punitive to the food industry.

00:31:43.000 We need to figure out a different subsidy system.

00:31:45.000 We need to actually take responsibility, I think, for the government of what we've done with this broken subsidy system nobody likes.

00:31:52.000 So I think if you can really actually have stakeholders, and the stakeholders like AG and like the food industry can actually see this as an opportunity to basically be dragged reluctantly to some change, but also behind closed doors, figure out a new system that actually works for stakeholders.

00:32:09.000 I'm optimistic, Russell.

00:32:10.000 Again, I cannot emphasize enough how the independent media spotlight...

00:32:15.000 I've always said this.

00:32:16.000 I said this is why President Trump, who I... I was not on the train for President Trump in 2016, right?

00:32:23.000 I think his election was the most important election in my lifetime by far.

00:32:27.000 I think he's the most important figure in my lifetime because I've always said this.

00:32:30.000 The executive spotlight on this issue, calling out the FDA or calling out these slithering people who try to sneak these regulations in, we just didn't have light on it before.

00:32:42.000 So with the light President Trump and Bobby can show and these smart people that are being picked, we got to be strategic.

00:32:48.000 But I think we can get them done.

00:32:51.000 The last thing I'll say, Russell, as we're thinking about this, Is you made some, you just made some, these are unimpeachable arguments.

00:32:59.000 Like, should research be transparent?

00:33:01.000 Like, without even talking about vaccine, should we have data available on what the trials are or know if there haven't been trials?

00:33:08.000 Should we, can we be able to generally support vaccines while also saying that it's a terrible incentive, as Aaron Siri points out, that there's complete immunity protection, and the second you get on the vaccine schedule, you have mandated government payments for this drug.

00:33:21.000 For every American and enforcement for the government for them to take them.

00:33:25.000 I mean, you can have two things at once and bringing these things in the open, they're unimpeachable arguments that I think are winning arguments.

00:33:33.000 You can see how the simple economic arguments that might motivate getting people to join a gym in January so they pay their membership perpetually playing out at scale create a kind of chaos that if people are mandated or if it's just scheduled that they take certain vaccines it becomes kind of habitualized.

00:33:55.000 If there is no clinical trial data available because of a lack of transparency That creates extraordinary systems.

00:34:02.000 And I spoke to Jim O'Neill recently, not on air, and he's told me a couple of things I'd love to talk through with you.

00:34:11.000 One, we touched on what you just briefly mentioned, 18% of the food stamp revenue ultimately going on sugary drinks.

00:34:20.000 To him, do you feel that even if you were to take...

00:34:24.000 Imagine if you were self-functioning in life, you know, Callie and Jim O'Neill and even me, if we were to sort of address that.

00:34:31.000 Wow.

00:34:32.000 18% gets spent on sugary drinks.

00:34:34.000 Well, wouldn't you want...

00:34:35.000 You know, you don't want to deny people that cannot feed themselves access to means and nutrition.

00:34:43.000 But surely what would be better is if they were eating...

00:34:51.000 food, even that one idea, the impact that has on firstly powerful food lobbyists, big agriculture, you know, the kind of interest that ensure that the information you get on diabetes is somehow funded by the kind of people that put sugar and various the kind of interest that ensure that the information you get on diabetes is That's...

00:35:11.000 Just that one issue would start to break apart the building blocks of centralised...

00:35:18.000 The economy of American sickness would receive like an arrow to the heart.

00:35:23.000 Just with that one relatively small adjustment.

00:35:27.000 If it was like, instead of sugary drinks, 20% is going to be spent on locally reared or grown food.

00:35:32.000 Grown in, I don't know, a 20 mile radius of where they're eating it.

00:35:36.000 That has to change the whole economy, that idea.

00:35:39.000 I see you've got something to say, Cali, please.

00:35:41.000 No, no, no.

00:35:42.000 Sorry, Russell.

00:35:43.000 Yeah, I think that's the example of the type of initiatives we need to focus on, and not necessarily that exact issue, but we've got to focus on unimpeachable arguments.

00:35:53.000 But even just the politics of what you just described, let's think about that.

00:35:55.000 So let's think about if SNAP, say there was a deal with Democrats, we actually increased the funding a little bit, and we say that, you know, it's a free country, you can buy cigarettes, buy Coke.

00:36:04.000 Buy all these things, but we're going to have healthy food on Snap.

00:36:08.000 And instead of getting everyone obese and then sending $1,600 a month to Novo Nordics in Denmark, we're going to invest in American farmers.

00:36:16.000 But even with the politics there, you've got probably the farmers on board, actually.

00:36:19.000 You can probably pick off some of that.

00:36:22.000 If you change the incentive structure for food companies, they can live within those rules if there's certainty.

00:36:28.000 It's a winning argument.

00:36:30.000 Nobody's disagreeing with that.

00:36:31.000 I think there's this really dark force from pharma that actually doesn't want people to thrive and be healthy.

00:36:38.000 You know, pharma is not actively lobbying for food stamps, but there's this really weird kind of force against anything for Americans to be healthy.

00:36:46.000 So there will be dark, but like, that's an issue.

00:36:48.000 We've got to focus on big issues like that.

00:36:50.000 And I call it changing consciousness.

00:36:52.000 If we can get a couple of wins in the next couple of years on transformative programs like that, to changing the paradigm that we should not be poisoning Americans and subsidizing that poison and then profiting from when they're sick, I think we really...

00:37:04.000 We really win.

00:37:04.000 But you hit on an important issue.

00:37:06.000 I mean, who disagrees with this?

00:37:08.000 Why are we writing the check?

00:37:11.000 And I just can't emphasize that enough.

00:37:12.000 We are a free country.

00:37:13.000 I'm a libertarian.

00:37:14.000 I think more drugs should be legal.

00:37:15.000 We should have beer, cigarettes.

00:37:18.000 I think drugs.

00:37:19.000 As long as we have transparency and as long as we're not subsidizing and recommending harmful things.

00:37:25.000 The problem with a Coca-Cola By the government guidelines for two-year-olds, it's actually recommended.

00:37:32.000 Coca-Cola for a two-year-old falls under the government guidelines.

00:37:35.000 The USDA, which says added sugar for kids is healthy for two-year-olds.

00:37:39.000 And it's subsidized billions of dollars by the government through food stamps.

00:37:42.000 Let's just get that one.

00:37:44.000 Let's just stop that.

00:37:48.000 I was just thinking, Coca-Cola should have given you a pay rise and kept you in the tent.

00:37:52.000 You've been nothing but trouble to that organisation.

00:37:56.000 The other thing that Jim O'Neill said, I'm assuming it's something you're familiar with, was when the challenge of organic When organic fruit and vegetables emerged 20 years or so ago, Stanford funded a clinical trial, and it had to produce favorable results.

00:38:18.000 And Jim O'Neill explained to me that the way they did that was to set up a clinical trial that compared organic versus non-organic fruit, but for the marker of nutrition, not for the impact of pesticides.

00:38:32.000 So they could say, we've done a study of organic fruit, And it's just the same as non-organic pesticide.

00:38:39.000 They don't test for the negative impact of pesticides, which would be an entirely different set of results.

00:38:44.000 So I suppose that shows that the way that clinical trials are organised, the way that clinical trials are funded, the way that academia has relationships with whatever interests it was that funded that particular clinical trial, actually formulates and shapes reality.

00:38:59.000 When you add to that We're good to go.

00:39:18.000 One thing you've alluded to a couple of times, Callie, is weird dark power.

00:39:23.000 You're probably aware of how Tucker Carlson and a few people in this space now are starting to clearly, and I would include myself in this, allow our conversations to be informed by spiritual values.

00:39:34.000 I know that you are Christian yourself, and every so often...

00:39:39.000 Callie, I'm like looking at this stuff, whether it's to do with war or big pharmaceuticals or agriculture, and sometimes I sort of buttress up against something that doesn't make sense materially.

00:39:51.000 I'm like, why would they do this?

00:39:53.000 What is it that gets people over the line to agitate for things that are bad for human beings?

00:39:59.000 It can't just be greed, even though greed, one might argue from a theological perspective, is itself somehow tethered in evil, temptation, the devil, Satan.

00:40:09.000 And again and again, I'm seeing, again, in the sort of around the topics that we're already discussing, a kind of something that's beyond rationalism.

00:40:20.000 And I would pack into that almost everything that we've touched upon.

00:40:23.000 Like, why are SNL, that used to be an edgy show, or Jimmy Kimmel, who I know is like a good guy, somehow invested in, like, attacking Bobby Kennedy and saying that he's, you know, like, when, if you meet and talk to Bobby Kennedy, you recognise you're talking to a man of integrity, with principles, who's flawed.

00:40:39.000 I wonder what kind of set of values must have taken hold in order for there to be a sort of an...

00:40:50.000 Institutional, antithetical, anti-life flow that seems to govern not only policy and the direction of economics, but also the public discourse.

00:41:01.000 It does seem evil in the same way that lying about escalating a war between Ukraine and Russia and its potential consequences seems evil.

00:41:10.000 Do you ever get sort of like chilling revelations that there is something darker than the syrup at the bottom of a Coca-Cola bottle that's motivating all of this?

00:41:23.000 Okay, well, I'll start with disputing the premise a little bit, even though I agree with it, for a little bit of optimism.

00:41:29.000 I will say we have a complicated world, and there is a lot of darkness around this whole transformation agenda of Bobby Kennedy's.

00:41:36.000 But, you know, Tim Ryan, a leading Democrat, just wrote a great op-ed.

00:41:40.000 Cory Booker has been posting stuff about this.

00:41:42.000 I think it's actually a positive thing that if you actually close your eyes at a Trump-RFK rally, you know, during the campaign, you wouldn't know whether you win a A hippie commune at Berkeley or a Trump campaign, really.

00:41:54.000 They were talking about regenerative farming and getting the toxins out of our food, getting kids healthy.

00:41:57.000 I mean, the things conservatives are talking about are indistinguishable, right, from what hippies were talking about just five years ago.

00:42:03.000 So I think there is like this broad-based almost agreement.

00:42:06.000 And I think, obviously, and it's, you know, deep, deep forces at play.

00:42:11.000 We have just an incredibly toxic political environment.

00:42:13.000 And I think, you know, something happened with COVID where for some reason it's become a political virtue on the left.

00:42:19.000 To blindly trust experts, to blindly trust pharmaceutical companies, to blindly trust food companies.

00:42:25.000 You'll have to unpack that one for me, but for some reason, particularly on the left, there's a fetish for the experts.

00:42:30.000 The experts have demonstrably let us down.

00:42:33.000 I think it's tapping into a fear-based mindset that people inevitably can be drawn to, and it's a really weak thing for leaders to do, is appeal to fear.

00:42:40.000 And I think that's what happened during COVID. I mean, I think we're going to be assessing the psychological impacts from COVID for the next generation.

00:42:48.000 I think it was the most important public policy and societal event that's happened in the past 50 years.

00:42:53.000 You know, and I think it did show that you can appeal to fear, you know, in a very powerful way, in a very destructive way.

00:42:58.000 And that's, you know, for whatever reason, people, particularly on the left, are doing.

00:43:01.000 So that's a lot to unpack.

00:43:07.000 Just when it gets to like why this happens, why everyone's been psyoped, why Jimmy Kimmel and SNL and all the news, you know, I think it actually gets to what you said about the studies, about the human randomized control studies in organic food.

00:43:20.000 I think, in a way, and Casey talks about this so eloquently, Is that I think the science has actually detached us from our spirit.

00:43:28.000 And I think we're born with this innate sense of common sense and an innate sense of what's good for us.

00:43:35.000 I mean, throughout all of human history, we knew natural food was good.

00:43:38.000 We knew being in the sun was good.

00:43:40.000 We knew movement was good.

00:43:41.000 You know, we knew, you know, almost like mindfulness was good.

00:43:45.000 And I think modern society has systematically hijacked these Basically factors that our cells innately need.

00:43:53.000 We have chronic stress all day with our phones and with trillions of dollars of incentives that attack our attention.

00:43:58.000 You know, I was just with a friend who has chickens and a chicken coop, and just turning the light on inside a chicken coop all day produces two times more eggs.

00:44:09.000 Their hormones change so much just with the light on that they produce two times more eggs.

00:44:14.000 I mean, we have so many stimuli around us with, you know, light.

00:44:18.000 And with what's happening in our circadian rhythm and with all the toxins in the air, I don't think we fully realize how much these things are like changing our hormones.

00:44:26.000 So anyway, these are all common sense things.

00:44:28.000 But then we get hit over the head with the studies in the NIH. There's literally a study and an academic disagreement questioning whether microplastics are bad for Americans.

00:44:38.000 That's literally a scientific debate happening at the NIH. Right now, 0.5% of a child's brain is made of plastic.

00:44:44.000 0.5% because there's so much microplastics.

00:44:47.000 And there is literally at the NIH an argument on whether there's enough human randomized controlled trials to study whether that's a good thing.

00:44:53.000 There's an argument right now with the NIH of whether crude oil, these food colorings in our food, Are appropriate or not for kids?

00:45:00.000 These are banned in every other country and are linked to ADHD. And there's a discussion of whether there's enough human randomized control study trials.

00:45:07.000 Do we need human randomized control study trials to know whether glyphosate, which requires a hazmat suit to spray and kills every organism in sight by design, whether that ingesting into our kids' bodies at a massive scale is good?

00:45:20.000 Do we need a human randomized control trial on whether crude oil food colorings are good?

00:45:25.000 We've kind of lost the plot, and I think, Russell, it's kind of taken us away from nature, from the sense of the cycles of how our soil and environment connects to our health.

00:45:36.000 I truly do think this, and this is the type of concepts we're talking about, we don't need a multi- You know, step, 20-page nutritional guidelines.

00:45:44.000 You know, we need to talk about getting back to nature, getting back to whole food, you know, avoiding processed crap.

00:45:52.000 If we just have that type of leadership, that type of common sense leadership from our scientific authorities, I think we could be transformed.

00:45:57.000 But at the end of the day, this is something you talk about so eloquently.

00:46:01.000 It's getting more in touch with nature.

00:46:03.000 It's like, it's actually, you know, understanding basic, innate, common sense.

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00:47:41.000 The false markers of technological ascent and medical expertise in certain areas has perhaps distracted us from the fact that when it comes to eternity, humankind evolves, changes, grows, depends on your theology, at a different pace.

00:47:58.000 And we've been sort of led to believe that we're at some kind of apex as a result of the ingenuity of a handful of people that have brought about innovation in the areas that I just outlined, whether medical or Or technological.

00:48:09.000 When you talk about the left's kind of, it'd be difficult not to regard it as demonic, but it's certainly materialist abandon of personal autonomy, personal authority in favour of technocracy.

00:48:22.000 The elevation of expertise and science, but not science itself.

00:48:26.000 With the objectivity and imperialism, excuse me, empiricism, that we are accustomed to, but science as a subset of certain economic imperatives, meaning certain clinical trials will never be undertaken lest the data produced be unfavourable,

00:48:42.000 has meant that we've entered into this kind of inert and parasitical zombie era, where people, through rationalism and through reason, ironically, have led themselves to an Irrational perspective.

00:48:57.000 That irrational perspective being that objectivity can be achieved without clarity and transparency.

00:49:04.000 That the word science itself is sufficient to navigate the obvious interests that masquerade and manoeuvre behind the results we see and the results that we don't see.

00:49:16.000 And like you, I share some optimism around Elon Musk because...

00:49:20.000 Because as well as being an obvious genius, he's a kind of trickster figure that is willing to engage in territories that are potentially quite explosive, novel and innovative.

00:49:36.000 Whilst I am aware of the kind of attacks that he may receive when it comes to a subject like transhumanism, i.e.

00:49:44.000 Neuralink being kind of When you isolate the issue of free speech, it's pretty plain that in the same way that Trump disrupted and created a kind of havoc at bare minimum within the political establishment because of his novel approach to communication and his utilisation of social media,

00:50:06.000 Musk, too, whatever else you say about him, the people with the kind of power that leads to the economics of sick children being a priority and baked into the American economy.

00:50:17.000 The mentality that requires perpetual war for the American economy to be sustained, and then you just have to reverse engineer the reason for these wars.

00:50:26.000 Oh, well, you know, Putin's a criminal, or China are doing this, or this is happening. 0.71

00:50:32.000 You know, they are brilliant.

00:50:33.000 At justifying the monsters they've created, and in fact denying that they're monsters, claiming in fact that they are saviours.

00:50:40.000 So what I see is when you kill God in the sort of famous Nietzschean edict, and replace that God with a kind of a human power, whether that's human power expressed through governmental or commercial institutions, That has a tendency towards what, from a theological perspective, could be regarded as demonic or even evil outcomes, because you've extracted the universal principles upon which God relies, i.e.

00:51:10.000 we are here to love one another, sacrifice ourselves for the betterment of one another.

00:51:15.000 If you live in a rationalist and materialist purview, then you are the summit and apex of your own life, and your pleasure and the avoidance of fear are Are the priorities just from a sort of a biological and instinctual perspective, which is frankly all that's left if you remove invisible spiritual power.

00:51:36.000 You can concoct morality from that.

00:51:38.000 You can concoct a new morality that curiously often is against the taxonomies and categories of God.

00:51:45.000 Like there's no such thing as man or woman.

00:51:46.000 There's no such thing as a child.

00:51:48.000 There's no such thing as healthy food versus not healthy food.

00:51:51.000 There's no such thing as an unnecessary war.

00:51:55.000 All of these categories melt away and fall away in the bewilderment that their godlessness has engendered.

00:52:03.000 And the state, having displaced God, lays claim to the powers of that God. 0.93

00:52:09.000 You are bad. 1.00

00:52:10.000 You should be killed. 1.00

00:52:11.000 You're allowed to live. 1.00

00:52:11.000 You're not allowed to live. 1.00

00:52:12.000 You are elevated. 0.93

00:52:13.000 You are destroyed.

00:52:14.000 The state, which is just a sort of a conundrum and collective of humans, becomes all-powerful.

00:52:21.000 And as I suppose we've been talking around, perhaps it's not just human.

00:52:25.000 It's that which is fallen within humans.

00:52:28.000 That which is, when light, a kind of false light, and which, when it's dark, is a darkness that leads to a requirement for your children to eat poison in order for your economy to flourish.

00:52:41.000 Can you write a book on that thesis?

00:52:43.000 I think you've just summed up in my head.

00:52:47.000 It's impossible for me to articulate, but I think why people feel so optimistic right now.

00:52:52.000 I think in a weird way, this person you talked about, this icon, Donald Trump, this unexpected prophet, It's batting away at this orthodoxy that's going to destroy the country.

00:53:06.000 I think we have lost God.

00:53:08.000 I think we've lost our connection to nature.

00:53:10.000 I think we've lost common sense.

00:53:13.000 I think there's, without assigning motives, there's this unrelenting assault.

00:53:19.000 I mean, look at what's happening in the Supreme Court today.

00:53:22.000 They're literally arguing that a two-year-old can decide their gender and that there's just no kind of To difference there.

00:53:32.000 I mean, you have true, true evil things happening and trying to be normalized.

00:53:38.000 And I think the Donald Trump election was like a primal scream enough.

00:53:44.000 And I'll tell you, right?

00:53:45.000 And I think we all see this.

00:53:46.000 There's not The agenda is just to do a lot, I think.

00:53:52.000 It's the Elon kind of, let's do a lot.

00:53:54.000 Let's have the premise of free speech.

00:53:57.000 We're going to ask questions about these things.

00:53:59.000 We're going to expose them.

00:54:01.000 We're going to have rough and tumble conversations.

00:54:04.000 And then let's get people in there that see things clearly, that love their institutions, that they're taking over.

00:54:12.000 All these cabinet appointees, you know, Bobby Kennedy wants people to be healthy and wants the American healthcare system to thrive, but he's got a skeptical eye of the institution.

00:54:21.000 So I think you've just articulated the almost spiritual promise and opportunity of a Trump presidency.

00:54:27.000 There's going to be many, many pitfalls and many, many challenges, but I think we should hold to that optimism.

00:54:36.000 Kali, thanks man.

00:54:38.000 Thank you very much for...

00:54:39.000 I feel genuinely heartened when I see what's happening in your life.

00:54:47.000 The optimism that you've referred to alongside its shadow is nourished in me by just by sort of allowing myself to think, wait a minute...

00:54:57.000 If Callie Means and Casey Means are in a position of influence, things can't be the same as they were before under the duplicitous proclamations of the previous administration.

00:55:10.000 Because this is someone I've spoke to, who I've felt educate in me, and I've seen educate in others.

00:55:16.000 And every time I speak to him, I come away knowing, oh, 80% of the NIH funding comes with this, 75%.

00:55:22.000 0.5% microplastics.

00:55:25.000 You know, I think, like, when I was doing the podcast, you know, like, and, you know, which I'm still doing, like, one of the recurrent things was, like, wait, like, there are good people, it's just these good people are marginal and often maligned, and what has to happen...

00:55:43.000 Clearly, it's like, you know, Marty Makari and Jay Bhattacharya and Kali Means and Casey Meade.

00:55:48.000 If all these people are suddenly in positions where they're making decisions that direct the American, whatever this beast is that lives on sickness and eats cancer, lubricated by processed seed oil, if this beast is a confronted, tamed, slain, you're going to have a different America.

00:56:07.000 That's like, that's not even hyperbole other than The image system I used was pretty bold.

00:56:12.000 It's simple common sense.

00:56:15.000 Thank you.

00:56:16.000 Well, in my head, when you say that, Russell, I appreciate that so much.

00:56:20.000 I think the defining aspect of this election was independent media.

00:56:24.000 Like, I truly think what you are doing and the voices you brought to the forefront is changing the world.

00:56:30.000 And I think, you know, people say this dismissively, the podcast kind of impacted policy.

00:56:35.000 I think it's one of the most important developments.

00:56:38.000 You know, in American history.

00:56:39.000 I think the fact that you brought the microphone to this and you have a lot of influence and our friends in the independent media space, it's a huge, huge thing because the side of light, the side of truth, not necessarily the side that's right, but the side that's even asking the questions has the power right now.

00:56:57.000 Yeah, I think the other thing I just say is what's going to transform American health more than any single policy.

00:57:03.000 It's just everyone that's connected with this message.

00:57:06.000 I mean, it's just been like on my micro level, just been like unbelievable hearing from people like reading our book that seen me and my sister on your podcast and Tucker's and others.

00:57:17.000 And I just think, like, just little microchanges we make in our lives, like, that's where almost the spiritual element kicks.

00:57:22.000 If, like, enough people see the system for what it is and get outside of it and think about homeschooling or think about, you know, going against orthodoxies on medicine and food, that does level up.

00:57:33.000 And I think You know, this is raw politics, and I think why this Maha movement has such an opportunity is because politicians see voters really care about it.

00:57:42.000 I mean, that's what happened and why I'm optimistic, is I think you're going to see Democrats try to take this mantle and out Maha. 0.56

00:57:50.000 That's a good thing.

00:57:52.000 There's real voters behind this.

00:57:54.000 And I think we both have so many people, particularly moms, who are just fired up about what's happening to kids and our audiences.

00:58:03.000 Just keep that up.

00:58:05.000 That's my big hope, seeing a little bit on the inside.

00:58:08.000 If people can just not forget this optimism and just keep making changes in their own lives, that impacts politics.

00:58:17.000 Yeah, that's pretty powerful.

00:58:19.000 Yeah, thank you for that.

00:58:20.000 I see your book in a lot of places, you and your sister's book, and I see that and I think, wow, it's reaching people.

00:58:27.000 People are being changed.

00:58:28.000 And if 0.5% of microplastics in a child's brain...

00:58:34.000 Could be considered to be a negative influence.

00:58:37.000 Perhaps if we can influence their mind, even to that degree, it will create a change of direction.

00:58:44.000 I do feel really heartened, because what it is, even if it were like...

00:58:47.000 I guess the fear is that it gets reduced to a tactic.

00:58:51.000 It's like, you know, because by keeping that over-teen window so tight, people will be like...

00:58:57.000 Surely if someone comes on and says, we're going to make your children healthier, everyone's going to want that, right?

00:59:03.000 Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or a Libertarian or Ku Klux Klan or a Communist, if the pledge is, we want your children to live longer and to be happier...

00:59:13.000 You're going to turn your head and awaken from your ideological haze and go, oh yeah, that's more important.

00:59:18.000 And the only way that wasn't an influential factor up to now is because the entire political space was captured to some degree because when you have a less fluid media, you can strangle these conversations in the crib.

00:59:28.000 And maybe 30 years ago, Callie, you would have been like, oh, did you ever read that book by that guy?

00:59:34.000 Oh yeah, yeah, that was interesting.

00:59:36.000 That was ahead of its time.

00:59:38.000 But now it's like, Bobby Kennedy's running the massive HHS and this dude's got his ear.

00:59:45.000 It's like the technology, as it always does, affects temporality, affects cadence, affects rhythm.

00:59:53.000 And as a result of that, it's like something's got fast-tracked.

00:59:57.000 It could have been when you were 70 years old.

00:59:59.000 And finally, Cali Means was able to run a small farm based on his ideas.

01:00:06.000 And now it's like, what?

01:00:07.000 This guy's telling Johnson& Johnson and Kraft where they can stick it.

01:00:15.000 Well, it's day by day.

01:00:17.000 It's day by day.

01:00:21.000 It's great.

01:00:22.000 We're feeling great here.

01:00:24.000 There's dark forces, but...

01:00:27.000 It is so heartening to see people like Jay Bhattacharya, Marty McCary, Jim O'Neill, Dr. Oz.

01:00:32.000 I mean, these are really, really good people.

01:00:35.000 And you're right.

01:00:36.000 Like, good, good people are in charge.

01:00:39.000 People that really want to do the right thing.

01:00:41.000 And it's really, really heartening to see.

01:00:44.000 Kali Means, you are first among them.

01:00:46.000 Thank you so much for everything you've done.

01:00:48.000 Thank you for joining us today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

01:00:51.000 Thank you, sir.

01:00:53.000 Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Callie Means as much as I did, and you're filled with the kind of optimism that one feels when you know it's possible to change the world, and that you are a participant in that, not a spectator.

01:01:04.000 That it is your glory that will light the way.

01:01:07.000 That you matter.

01:01:08.000 That your life is important.

01:01:10.000 Thank you so much for joining us today.

01:01:12.000 We will be back soon, not with more of the same, but with more of the different.

01:01:15.000 Until then, if you can, stay free.

01:01:17.000 Many switching.

01:01:18.000 Switch on.

01:01:20.000 Many switching.

01:01:21.000 Switch on, switch on.

01:01:34.000 Switch on.

01:01:36.000 Many switching.

01:01:41.000 Switch on.

01:01:42.000 Many switching.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - December 12, 2024

The Economics of Disease: Why the System Wants You Sick - SF513

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