Stay Free - Russel Brand - The Oracle Series: Trump, Globalism, and the New Spiritual Battle – SF525

00:00:00.000 The End

00:02:32.000 Hello there you awakening wonders Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand and what a special episode we have for you this Thursday.

00:02:49.000 It's been an extraordinary week redolent with symbology because an inauguration is about a transfer and instantiation of power.

00:02:57.000 Do the ceremonies and symbols matter?

00:02:59.000 Is the signified and the signifier somehow intrinsically, authentically connected to an identifiable and objective reality?

00:03:08.000 Or can we say that the symbol of a swishing sword cut in a...

00:03:12.000 The cake while dancing to the YMCA is meaningless, yet the symbol of a Nazi salute is filled with meaning. 0.64

00:03:19.000 We'll be talking about the inauguration as well as the WHO withdrawal by Donald Trump.

00:03:26.000 And additionally, if we have time, some matters emergent from the Southport murders in the UK. Democratic crisis that has been introduced in my country, the UK, because of the way that those murders have been handled in media and the kind of cultural identity crisis that has coalesced around it right up to,

00:03:49.000 I suppose, the jailing of people for posting stuff on the internet, the grooming gang crisis and the incarceration of Tommy Robinson.

00:03:57.000 Joining me today and every week in this new Oracle series, which will make up our...

00:04:02.000 Precious and beloved Thursday show are, my friends...

00:04:06.000 And allies and fantastic reporters, Lara Logan and Neil Oliver.

00:04:11.000 If you don't know about Lara Logan, she's an incredibly brave and brilliant reporter who made her name and her bones working inside Legacy Media and now does a great deal of incredible work in the field of human trafficking.

00:04:23.000 I don't mean contributing to it.

00:04:24.000 She's not got like a truck somewhere loaded up with the vulnerable.

00:04:28.000 No, I mean preventing it, which I've seen her do marvelously and magnificently in a number of contexts, both at live events and online.

00:04:36.000 Lara, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:04:38.000 Thank you for having me, Russell.

00:04:40.000 Additionally joining me is my doppelganger brother, my shadow self and that great emergent archetype from the hills of Scotland.

00:04:50.000 The coast guy himself, the magnificent Neil Oliver.

00:04:53.000 Thanks for joining us, Neil.

00:04:54.000 I'm delighted to be with you both, Russell and Lara.

00:04:58.000 Thank you so much for joining us.

00:05:00.000 The first story that we're going to discuss today is the inauguration itself.

00:05:04.000 We're seeing seismic changes around the world since the election of Donald Trump.

00:05:10.000 There are many legislative changes already in action.

00:05:14.000 The withdrawal from the World Health Organization being the first and most significant among them.

00:05:22.000 This is the WHO's response to America's withdrawal from the WHO.

00:05:27.000 The World Health Organization regrets the announcement that the USA intends to withdraw.

00:05:32.000 The WHO plays a crucial role in protecting the health security of the world's people, including Americans.

00:05:38.000 Now, what do you think this indicates, Lara?

00:05:41.000 Is this...

00:05:42.000 An end of globalism.

00:05:44.000 Is this a positive step forward for America?

00:05:47.000 Or does this indeed place the world's vulnerable and the health of Americans and the health of people around the world in jeopardy?

00:05:55.000 Is this, do you think, an endorsement, an early endorsement of the Trump administration?

00:06:00.000 Or do you think this is an indicator of a malign administration?

00:06:06.000 This is an administration that's carrying out its promises, and it's doing it from day one, right?

00:06:11.000 I mean, Trump said on the campaign trail that he was going to withdraw from WHO. You know, last time around, he withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord.

00:06:18.000 He was looking at the United Nations very closely.

00:06:20.000 It really marks the era of Trump doing something that Americans, millions of Americans have wondered about for a long time.

00:06:29.000 Like, why are you a member of a group?

00:06:32.000 That every chance they get, they stand up and say how awful you are.

00:06:37.000 And you're paying all the bills.

00:06:40.000 Not all of the bills, but you're paying most of them.

00:06:43.000 So the WHO in that respect is representative of the UN and all these other global organizations.

00:06:52.000 However...

00:06:52.000 However, what's different with the WHO is COVID, right?

00:06:56.000 Because you can make arguments, and I grew up, I was born and raised in Africa, so, you know, I know that there are Africans who are part of these programs and supposedly benefit from this, although never seen any improvement in the standard of living or the health of any of these countries where the WHO operates in practice, right?

00:07:15.000 So I'm not sure how much good it does, but this is a kind of safety net, or so we believe.

00:07:21.000 However, what happened with the WHO during COVID was that they really led this march on the world that was based on one lie after another.

00:07:32.000 And what you saw, COVID brought into clear focus this clash between global governance and global organizations.

00:07:42.000 And the individual rights and freedoms of sovereign nations and sovereign individuals.

00:07:47.000 You know, I mean, Europe was ready to toss the Nuremberg Code out the window.

00:07:50.000 It's like, oh, goodbye, Joseph Megler.

00:07:52.000 Goodbye, you know, Nazi Holocaust and all the rest of it. 0.99

00:07:56.000 We don't care about the Nuremberg Code anymore.

00:07:58.000 It's time to talk about forced vaccinations. 0.73

00:08:00.000 Well, you know, the Nuremberg Code was implemented specifically to prevent you from being forced to do something medically.

00:08:07.000 But in the United States, you have a Bill of Rights, you know, and you have a constitution.

00:08:12.000 And people are not just going to go along with that.

00:08:14.000 They're not going to indefinitely suspend their liberties and then, by the way, sign on to a treaty that says that the WHO, the next time there's a pandemic, is going to be in charge.

00:08:25.000 So really, I think it was the mass murder and harming of people all over the world that brought this issue of global governance into focus.

00:08:34.000 And I don't want to talk too long.

00:08:36.000 I want to hand it over to Neil.

00:08:38.000 I have to say, me personally, I'm one of those people that says the WHO could go, you know, they can get knotted.

00:08:44.000 And you're going to have to come up with some other system, a better system, to help people across the world than one that is profoundly dishonest and, quite frankly, tyrannical, and then harming people.

00:08:58.000 I mean, who wants that?

00:08:59.000 No.

00:09:00.000 No, thank you.

00:09:01.000 Trump emphasised in the withdrawal the economic aspect of the United States' relationship with the WHO, that their contributions significantly outweigh, for example, that of China, while America, of course, represent a smaller population.

00:09:18.000 Neil, do you consider this to be an economic or ideological withdrawal?

00:09:22.000 And what do you imagine its impact to be?

00:09:26.000 I think it's the players.

00:09:31.000 on this board are so slippery that I would need to wait and see what actually happens and how the words manifest themselves in the days and weeks and months ahead.

00:09:46.000 Trump's America has previously withdrawn funding from the WHO but money then went more directly to To Bill and Gates, I can't remember whether it was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation or whether it was Gavi,

00:10:01.000 but money was redirected so that it seemed to have left where people didn't want to see it, but it still ended up in a connected destination, Bill Gates or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation being amongst the biggest private funders of the WHO. I would need to see what actually happens.

00:10:21.000 When I say slippery, the WHO were pushing the The pandemic preparedness treaty, which they were trying to get, you know, every, you know, every functioning country on earth to, you know, to accept.

00:10:36.000 Then that garnered the kind of headlines that became a bit problematic for the WHO. Perhaps it went a bit into the long grass and then lo and behold, it resurfaced in the United Nations in New York with talk of the Pact for the Future and so on.

00:10:52.000 So something that had seemed to be You know, kicked away or pushed down by popular displeasure, then resurfaced somewhere else.

00:11:04.000 I would need to see what it actually means.

00:11:08.000 I would very much like to see the World Health Organization cease to be.

00:11:13.000 I think it's a malign presence and I don't want it funded by anyone.

00:11:19.000 I don't want it having any authority anywhere.

00:11:22.000 And if Donald Trump means it when he says that, you know, he, for his part, is going to withdraw everything from them, then good.

00:11:29.000 But I would need to see in the weeks ahead how that actually shapes up.

00:11:33.000 That's very sensible, Neil, to not...

00:11:37.000 Wildly offer opinions without observing information, and it's certainly not a position that I generally take.

00:11:43.000 I suppose the only thing around which we would have consensus, the three of us, is that the WHO could be regarded as a malign influence on global health, which is an extraordinary verdict to achieve consensus around, given the nature and name of the organisation.

00:11:59.000 But we have accumulatively so much information on what...

00:12:03.000 Their agenda appears to be that it's difficult to remain optimistic, and it's Trump's opposition to globalism that forms at least a significant part of his popularity, and I would say power, but I'm...

00:12:15.000 The reason I'm so grateful to both of you and for the complexity and nuance that you bring to your opinions always on all of the subjects that we've discussed over the years is because this isn't a simple matter of the kind of neo-liberal left bad and compliant acolytes of a globalist agenda and MAGA populists.

00:12:36.000 Good, bold opponents of globalism.

00:12:39.000 And it's interesting to bring in here Whitney Webb's take on this subject.

00:12:44.000 To be fair, Trump also left the WHO in mid-2020, says Whitney Webb, a brilliant journalist, and then redirected what was once WHO funding to the Gates-funded Gavi Vaccine Alliance that Neil just mentioned.

00:12:56.000 While leaving the WHO is positive, says Webb, it's not the slam-dunk summer advertising, especially considering Gates' recent comments on Trump's enthusiasm for his vaccine innovation proposals.

00:13:07.000 I get called a lot of names, says Webb, for pointing this sort of stuff out.

00:13:11.000 But remembering what happened last time is important and often instructive about the present, especially when few people in media are inclined to point these things out.

00:13:18.000 She says that in response to Brett Weinstein's post congratulating Trump for his withdrawal.

00:13:25.000 Oh, look, Neil's frantic and excited.

00:13:27.000 We've got to go straight to Neil.

00:13:29.000 Who cares what I think?

00:13:30.000 I've just spent my life trying to get in this position.

00:13:33.000 Neil Oliver's got an impulse.

00:13:35.000 Neil, what are you saying?

00:13:36.000 Go on, Neil.

00:13:37.000 It's over to you, mate.

00:13:38.000 It feels to me as though we're circling a black hole.

00:13:46.000 There's some hard to see, unfocused entity of centralisation.

00:13:55.000 That is at the heart of things in the way that a black hole is supposed to be somewhere in the universe, a sort of universal attractor.

00:14:02.000 And we are all of us kind of orbiting around the, you know, the event horizon, you know, one, you know, always being pulled into it and things are being distorted.

00:14:11.000 And the wonderful, you know, Whitney Webb there, you know, what she's pointing out, almost certainly what she's saying there is where I got, you know, my information from that I said in my first response to your question.

00:14:24.000 About things just being redirected.

00:14:27.000 There always feels to me now like we're all moving, whether we want to or not, whether even Trump wants to or not, whether Robert Kennedy Jr wants to or not.

00:14:38.000 We're being pulled by something centralising.

00:14:42.000 And I think it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, even for somebody with the thrust of an Elon Musk.

00:14:49.000 Or the thrust of a Donald Trump to break free of that almost irresistible gravity of the black hole.

00:14:56.000 I'm sure for some of them, there's genuine intent.

00:14:58.000 You know, there's a genuine will and a desire.

00:15:01.000 I mean, you said that Trump was anti-globalist.

00:15:04.000 And I'm sure in some ways, some parts of his DNA are, because I think he's very much a, you know, he's a game player.

00:15:13.000 He likes to...

00:15:15.000 To strike a deal, you know, he likes to be a mover and a shaker. 1.00

00:15:18.000 And I don't think he's naturally attracted to just a sort of a one-world government where he doesn't have any say.

00:15:23.000 I think he likes to be in amongst the big boys, you know, as a mover and a shaker. 1.00

00:15:29.000 And I think it's credible that he would like to be anti-globalist.

00:15:34.000 But I think the gravitational pull of globalism is very hard, a very hard one from which to break free.

00:15:40.000 I mean, you know, Lara...

00:15:43.000 Hailing, as she does from South Africa, you know, there's another excellent South African of my acquaintance, Nick Hudson, you know, and he has come up with this idea of Hudson's razor, where he says that if something is being pushed as a global crisis requiring only a global solution,

00:16:04.000 you know, a one-size-fits-all solution issuing from a central point, and if, as the third criterion, Any opposition to that, any challenge to that is brutally suppressed.

00:16:17.000 Hudson's razor says that that's a scam.

00:16:22.000 Hudson's razor identifies scams.

00:16:24.000 And I think in the context of the WHO, you know, as I say, they want that iteration.

00:16:31.000 Call it the WHO. Call it the United Nations.

00:16:33.000 You know, it keeps on popping up in different forms.

00:16:35.000 But it's a centralising force that draws everything towards it.

00:16:40.000 And we'll just, as Whitney says, you know, it's a bait and switch.

00:16:44.000 Okay, we'll take the money from the WHO, but we'll be sucked towards the same destination by giving it to Gavi.

00:16:51.000 Gotta watch.

00:16:52.000 Hey, OK, I'm sorry to interrupt you both.

00:16:55.000 If you're watching this on X or on YouTube, please click the link in the description now and join us over on Rumble, where we will continue to talk about the inauguration, as well as talking about the significance of the symbols used in it, as well as talking about some real practical ways in which globalism can continue to reassert power, even in spite of the success in the election.

00:17:19.000 So if you're watching on X or YouTube or Facebook, click the link and join us now over on Rumble.

00:17:26.000 If Hudson's razor is real, Neil, you should use it to trim your beard, he said.

00:17:32.000 I dare you.

00:17:33.000 I very dare you.

00:17:35.000 Of almost no self-awareness.

00:17:37.000 Lara, Neil makes so many good points there and uses such alluring and instructive imagery, the word thrust being particularly Potent image called upon by Neil, because it's almost as if some sort of priapic urgency is required from the members of the Trump administration to...

00:18:00.000 Pull away from the yawning and appealing vortex of globalism.

00:18:05.000 But if indeed such magnetic powers as Trump, Musk et al, with the mandate they appear to have, and it's that mandate you alluded to when we discussed even the legislation of the first 48 hours, which is all we're really able to...

00:18:21.000 You know, discuss, diagnose or determine.

00:18:24.000 We've already seen what appears to be an attempt to pull away from globalism.

00:18:29.000 Yet Webb and Neil there point out that it's a little more complicated than that.

00:18:34.000 And I wonder if you are concerned about some of the things that Bill Gates has been saying about vaccine programs.

00:18:40.000 And indeed, what about this new cancer vaccine that was being discussed just yesterday?

00:18:47.000 Are you troubled by things like that, Lara, when you see, and not to mention the new sort of AI program that appears to have enormous surveillance capacity?

00:18:57.000 How do we reconcile the positive things that we're seeing, the release of, I don't know, Albrecht and, you know, there's plenty of positive things.

00:19:08.000 I would say the withdrawal from the WHO is a positive thing with what appear to be, gosh, I don't want to say salutes.

00:19:15.000 That's a complicated word.

00:19:17.000 Nods towards other forms of globalism and authoritarianism.

00:19:22.000 The examples that have just been used.

00:19:26.000 Cancer, vaccine, AI, and the new cosying up of or with Bill Gates.

00:19:33.000 Did you die of Bill Gates or with Bill Gates?

00:19:36.000 Same as COVID. Let me know what you think, Laura.

00:19:43.000 Well, I'm a warrior, right?

00:19:45.000 I'm a fighter.

00:19:46.000 And I like my feet to be planted firmly on the ground.

00:19:49.000 And when I look at things, I know what Neil means by the centrifugal kind of force drag you into this black hole.

00:19:58.000 But, you know, the reality is that can be broken down very simply.

00:20:03.000 into very human actions, right?

00:20:06.000 It's not some vortex that we have no power or control over.

00:20:10.000 What you're actually describing is that there are very powerful people and institutions who have set up a system and a society that is pulling us in that direction and has been doing that for a very long time and stopping it.

00:20:24.000 It's going to take a monumental effort.

00:20:26.000 And it's not so simple as, you know, Republican versus Democrat, you know, Labour versus Conservative, because the reality is that Labour and Conservative, Republican and Democrat, they're all involved in forcing us into a global power structure.

00:20:44.000 They all want power.

00:20:46.000 I don't really understand it.

00:20:47.000 I couldn't think of anything worse than having power.

00:20:49.000 I'm not interested.

00:20:50.000 I don't even have power over my own children, you know, half the time.

00:20:53.000 But I'm not built that way.

00:20:55.000 That's not in my DNA. I don't care one bit about power.

00:20:59.000 What I care about are the things that are much older, right?

00:21:03.000 What did the 300?

00:21:07.000 What did the Spartans fight for?

00:21:09.000 What has man wanted from the moment we've been on Earth?

00:21:13.000 We have fought for freedom.

00:21:15.000 And really, we fought for the truth.

00:21:17.000 You know, people ultimately don't want to be lied to.

00:21:21.000 We want to lie to ourselves about a lot of things, but don't really want to be lied to.

00:21:25.000 So I believe that this is a monumental task.

00:21:29.000 And Trump and certain people around him are fighting.

00:21:34.000 On multiple fronts.

00:21:36.000 The world right now, look at Europe.

00:21:38.000 You talked about your own country.

00:21:40.000 You're sitting right there.

00:21:41.000 You're looking at it saying, what on earth has happened?

00:21:44.000 I lived in Paris when I was 18. I went back years later and I was like...

00:21:48.000 I didn't recognize it.

00:21:50.000 I lived in London for years.

00:21:51.000 Go back to London.

00:21:52.000 Parts of London are unrecognizable.

00:21:55.000 Not just that. 1.00

00:21:56.000 Grooming gangs, my ass, okay? 1.00

00:21:58.000 Those are rape gangs. 1.00

00:21:59.000 They're not grooming. 1.00

00:22:00.000 They're raping people. 0.89

00:22:01.000 So, you know, spare me the nice language, right, to try to cover up your crimes. 0.96

00:22:07.000 Look at what is happening all over the world.

00:22:11.000 But people are standing up all over the world.

00:22:14.000 They don't want this because it's built on lives.

00:22:17.000 We all know enough now to know that a global order is not going to make us all better off.

00:22:24.000 We're not going to have more rights.

00:22:27.000 We're going to have less.

00:22:28.000 We're not going to have more access to goods and services.

00:22:32.000 They told us globalization would make everything cheaper.

00:22:35.000 You know, it would bring jobs to everybody.

00:22:37.000 That was a lie.

00:22:38.000 Go to the Midwest of the United States and see the towns and cities that I've seen that have just absolutely sunk into poverty when they moved manufacturing overseas.

00:22:48.000 So maybe there's people in India and China who've got more jobs now.

00:22:52.000 But they took those jobs from somewhere.

00:22:54.000 So, you know, we've been deceived over and over and over.

00:22:58.000 And this is a fight that's been going on for a long time.

00:23:01.000 It's nothing new for people to want to control the world or to have absolute power.

00:23:05.000 But we are in a moment now where I worry that if you say, oh, there's a force pushing us there, that people will think they can't do anything about it.

00:23:15.000 And I don't believe that.

00:23:16.000 I think we've got to fight with every fiber of our beings, every single inch of me.

00:23:22.000 I will be that person that dies fighting.

00:23:25.000 I will never, ever surrender to this.

00:23:28.000 And I think the biggest worry that we have, one of the most alarming things is AI.

00:23:32.000 But I'm also big enough to know one thing.

00:23:36.000 I'm conscious of what I don't know.

00:23:39.000 So when I see all of this, it's tempting with social media to jump in there and throw your voice, you know, get your voice out there, throw your hat in the ring and be outraged and do this and that.

00:23:48.000 But those are the moments when I take pause and I think about what are they really playing at here?

00:23:55.000 What's the real game?

00:23:57.000 Because if AI is the future and quantum computing and all that stuff is coming, Coming at us like a high-speed train.

00:24:04.000 You need to be able to fight on that new battlefield.

00:24:08.000 So is that what they're doing?

00:24:10.000 I don't know yet.

00:24:11.000 I just don't know enough.

00:24:12.000 I think we're going to find out with time.

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00:25:34.000 Well, it sounds like what you're anticipating is a kind of AI cold war of mutually assured destruction, that if your enemy is going to be utilizing this technology, then everyone has to.

00:25:46.000 And in a sense, that absolves everyone of moral responsibility.

00:25:49.000 What I'd like to sort of contemplate when it comes to the idea of outsourcing jobs and the economic impact of such is that what is really urgently required is a...

00:26:00.000 A metric that transcends that dynamic that we don't look at our roles primarily as cogs in a machine.

00:26:11.000 We have to reject that idea.

00:26:13.000 The problem of the arguments of the last century were perhaps that both sides use economic vernacular to determine their ideology.

00:26:21.000 Whether it was Marx saying that industrialization had tyrannized the population or capitalism saying that economies could liberate the population.

00:26:31.000 What I believe we're experiencing through this revival, this revival that's concomitant with the many Evil forces that Neil alludes to in his vortex analogy and that you rally us to oppose, quite rightly, Boudicca of South Africa, that you are, warrior woman.

00:26:49.000 It does indeed have to be opposed, but my concern would be that it can't be opposed simply using forces that are contained within that paradigm, i.e.

00:27:01.000 Whether that's sort of MAGA nationalism or this peculiar new form of empire that we call globalism, perhaps precisely because the term is anodyne enough for us to be distracted.

00:27:14.000 From the fact that, as you say, there's always been the pursuit of global power.

00:27:18.000 But we'll leave that particular aspect of the subject, the World Health Organization, as an avatar for globalist power and Trump's withdrawal from it as a demonstration that nationalism is one of the most obvious ways to oppose globalism.

00:27:32.000 In fact, it's just packed into the terminology, isn't it?

00:27:35.000 It's kind of obvious that nationalism would be a response to globalism.

00:27:39.000 We'll park that for a moment.

00:27:40.000 moment.

00:27:40.000 If you're watching us on X or YouTube, please click the link in the description and join us over on Rumble.

00:27:46.000 If you don't have Rumble Premium yet, you should consider getting Rumble Premium now for an ad-free experience as well as additional content.

00:27:52.000 If you're watching us on Locals, of course, we continue to provide the same deal for all of you on Locals that we always have.

00:27:59.000 We're going to move to another subject now, but remember, also for Rumble Premium viewers, we have break bread.

00:28:04.000 Here's an extract from our conversation yesterday with Nathan Finocchio.

00:28:09.000 Have a look at this. - There's three books that have changed my life, I was on a bit of a demythologization quest in my 20s, and there's sort of two camps in Christian theology, particularly in the study of the Old Testament.

00:28:35.000 One is explaining the supernatural in sort of a...

00:28:42.000 A demythologization way, right?

00:28:45.000 So, like, did the flood happen?

00:28:48.000 No, it was just phenomenological to the narrator.

00:28:51.000 You know, his world was flooding, but the actual world didn't flood. 0.97

00:28:54.000 And this is sort of, these are the modern questions, so that Christians don't feel like idiots when they're conversing with people of science who think that the supernatural is insane. 0.89

00:29:07.000 Heiser has pushed back on that, and he's like, no, no, everything, the talking snake, all of the miracles, I think that that's real. 0.84

00:29:17.000 And beyond that, we're living in a supernatural world, and if you believe in a guy who came back from the dead, and he could walk on water and make people's limbs grow back, then what's your problem with the sun standing still?

00:29:29.000 And so on and so forth.

00:29:30.000 And that actually puts you in the seat of the intended audience.

00:29:34.000 People that were reading the book of Genesis believed that such things could happen and did happen.

00:29:40.000 And so, to be a better reader of Scripture...

00:29:43.000 I should believe, like you said, like the trash cans can talk and that the trees are alive and the world, you know, kind of like in a Tolkien sense where, you know, the world is just so, it's more supernatural than we realize.

00:29:57.000 And everything is a miracle and it's sort of more exciting.

00:30:00.000 And I reckon that that's the way to read scripture.

00:30:02.000 That's the way to understand Jesus.

00:30:04.000 And maybe that's really how life...

00:30:07.000 There's no point pretending that we don't all refer to deep inner meaning when organizing our own lives.

00:30:15.000 The inauguration ceremony was therefore loaded with symbols.

00:30:20.000 Did Trump put his hand on the Bible or just above the Bible?

00:30:24.000 Why have a Bible there at all?

00:30:26.000 What do those ceremonial swords mean?

00:30:28.000 Why cut a cake?

00:30:29.000 What does it mean when you apportion and share a cake?

00:30:32.000 What does it mean when Hermes reapportions Apollo's cattle?

00:30:36.000 What does the word carnival even actually mean?

00:30:40.000 Who is it that apportions power?

00:30:43.000 Who gets the first cuts and who gets the lousy guts? 0.88

00:30:47.000 Who is ultimately in control?

00:30:50.000 And what can we determine from the angle of Elon Musk's right hand?

00:30:55.000 The media is going into apoplexy and spasms around this moment of Elon Musk.

00:31:01.000 Did he do a Nazi salute or did he not do a Nazi salute? 0.82

00:31:04.000 And look at all of these other people apparently holding their hands at the same angle, whether it's Taylor Swift or Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton.

00:31:12.000 All of us have been guilty at some time or another of holding our hand at that angle.

00:31:17.000 Now, I want to go to you first here, Neil.

00:31:22.000 Neil, why is it that we're continually reaching for meaning?

00:31:27.000 AOC, for example, was genuinely, I think, incensed by that angle.

00:31:32.000 And I will say that, like I said on my show earlier, that's a crazy thing for Elon Musk to do by accident.

00:31:39.000 And I genuinely sort of feel like it was an expression of excitement from a man with perhaps unusual skills.

00:31:45.000 But given...

00:31:45.000 Given the type of conversation that he must have known would ensue, it was a pretty curious, inadvertent blunder.

00:31:55.000 What do you make of it, Mr Oliver?

00:31:59.000 I don't think someone as experienced on the world stage would do much.

00:32:13.000 Genuinely, spontaneously, without having pre-thought a little bit about what he might do and what might happen immediately thereafter.

00:32:24.000 You know, when it comes to something like a gesture such as he made, which can be interpreted in more than one way.

00:32:34.000 I don't think it's accidental.

00:32:36.000 And I think it's also probably...

00:32:38.000 We possibly have seen enough of Elon Musk to know that he is a provocateur.

00:32:45.000 He likes to make plain that he has got himself into a position where he can do what he wants.

00:32:53.000 And he often does what he wants.

00:32:56.000 I've often wondered whether...

00:32:58.000 I don't know.

00:32:59.000 I've never met Elon Musk.

00:33:01.000 Like most people, I just watch what's...

00:33:03.000 Presented to me on one screen or another.

00:33:07.000 But he seems to me to be somebody who is neither good nor bad.

00:33:12.000 I think he's morally ambivalent to some extent.

00:33:16.000 I think he is driven to do the things that he knows he can do.

00:33:21.000 If it's possible for him, he will do it.

00:33:26.000 Without troubling himself too much about whether or not it's a good or a bad thing to do.

00:33:30.000 It's just a possible thing to do and therefore he will do it.

00:33:33.000 Put a sports car in space orbiting the earth with a dummy and I'll do it.

00:33:38.000 Because I can do it.

00:33:39.000 And I'll catch rockets with another bit of kit because I can do it.

00:33:45.000 But I'm sure he knew going out there that he was going to make that gesture.

00:33:50.000 And he knew that it was going to cause a heck of a fuss.

00:33:54.000 That's what he wanted to do.

00:33:56.000 He knew that it was going to set the chattering classes chattering.

00:34:01.000 And I think that was the impact of it.

00:34:03.000 I don't think he was declaring himself to be a Nazi.

00:34:05.000 I don't think he was declaring himself to be a citizen of the Roman Republic or a Roman Emperor.

00:34:10.000 I think he just knew that by gesturing in that way at the crowd, he would get them talking.

00:34:16.000 And by God he did.

00:34:18.000 Go on, Lara.

00:34:20.000 Well, this is where I go back to being conscious of what I don't know, right?

00:34:25.000 Because, I mean, you cannot, you know, Neil's got his opinion on it, and I try to look at it as a journalist.

00:34:30.000 Like, there's no way that I can know what's in Elon Musk's head.

00:34:34.000 But, you know, he's pretty geeky.

00:34:36.000 He's pretty awkward.

00:34:38.000 And when I saw him do that, I didn't think twice.

00:34:41.000 I didn't think anything of it.

00:34:42.000 So I step back at that point, and I look at it strategically.

00:34:47.000 And what we have is a return to the Nazi narrative. 0.60

00:34:51.000 But more than that, what you've already seen from before the election and afterwards is that we're in the age of information warfare, fifth generation warfare, and one of the main narratives is designed to separate Trump from Elon Musk.

00:35:06.000 Why?

00:35:07.000 Because Elon Musk has extraordinary power with Twitter.

00:35:11.000 What did his buying Twitter do?

00:35:13.000 It did much more than just give, you know, supporters of Trump a home.

00:35:16.000 It broke information dominance in a very powerful way.

00:35:21.000 So up until that moment, when you have legacy and traditional media, and then you have, you know, what you had in, for example, in 2020, when Facebook canceled Candace Owens.

00:35:33.000 They had a deal with Verizon and AT&T and whatever, with the email companies, the phone companies, and they all canceled her.

00:35:40.000 So she couldn't even reach the million-plus supporters she had through text and email.

00:35:45.000 These people colluded to silence people.

00:35:47.000 So when they owned, whether it's Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and X, plus you own the email companies, you own the text companies, the phone companies, and you have traditional media, You have information dominance.

00:36:06.000 And that has been so powerful for them.

00:36:08.000 But when Musk took over Twitter, that ended in the biggest way.

00:36:14.000 And then he exposed the censorship of the Twitter files and everything else.

00:36:17.000 So there's no question that Elon Musk is a powerful force right now.

00:36:23.000 He has a power that no other politician has.

00:36:26.000 And they just don't, except for Donald Trump.

00:36:28.000 So what do they do?

00:36:29.000 If you're his opponents, if you're their enemies, what do you have to do?

00:36:33.000 You have to sow seeds of doubt amongst the supporters, amongst the people serving with him, and most importantly, amongst Trump.

00:36:41.000 So we have the chipping away.

00:36:44.000 The chipping away of the relationship between them.

00:36:47.000 We have the effort to create disharmony and get infighting going, right?

00:36:52.000 And then you have this...

00:36:54.000 They're trying slowly to turn public opinion against Elon Musk.

00:36:57.000 Well, you know, they're doing it with the same old tired narrative of the Nazis.

00:37:02.000 And I just have to say, if you haven't read the Finders documents, if you haven't looked at any of the Operation Paperclip documents...

00:37:09.000 You have some serious homework to do regarding the Nazis in the Second World War.

00:37:13.000 Because if you really want to know who the Nazis are, take a look at Alan Dulles, you know, who founded the CIA. Who did he do it with? 0.74

00:37:21.000 Well, the former head of Nazi intelligence, brought to the United States under Operation Paperclip.

00:37:26.000 Let me see.

00:37:27.000 John Kerry married to Theresa Heinz Kerry.

00:37:30.000 What did her family do?

00:37:31.000 In Austria, they provided the safe houses for the Nazis who were fleeing Europe to go to Latin America.

00:37:37.000 Hmm.

00:37:38.000 Bill de Blasio.

00:37:39.000 Former mayor of New York.

00:37:41.000 What's his real name?

00:37:42.000 Wilhelm Werner Jr. You know, okay, who says he was abused by his father.

00:37:46.000 That's why he changed his name.

00:37:47.000 Well, maybe it was.

00:37:48.000 Maybe it wasn't.

00:37:50.000 You know, you start to break it down.

00:37:51.000 You start to see that.

00:37:53.000 Actually, who protected the Nazis in Ukraine from the Nuremberg trials?

00:37:58.000 Well, Alan Dulles and the CIA. Oh, wait a minute.

00:38:01.000 That's right.

00:38:03.000 Where was the Nazi SS headquartered?

00:38:05.000 In Western Ukraine.

00:38:07.000 So you protected some of the worst criminals.

00:38:09.000 You brought them in to the United States. 1.00

00:38:12.000 You put them inside of NASA, the intelligence agencies, your classified programs.

00:38:17.000 You took them to Fort Detrick, Maryland, which is, you know, where you continue to carry out the biological weapon programs of the Nazis. 0.86

00:38:25.000 Okay, so if you want to really scratch the surface of the Nazi narrative, who were the Nazis?

00:38:31.000 The National Socialists.

00:38:32.000 They were leftists.

00:38:33.000 This whole construct of, you know, Nazism and racism and fascism all belongs to the right. 0.93

00:38:39.000 It's all nonsense.

00:38:40.000 They're vying for power, just like Al-Qaeda is fighting ISIS and this one and that one for power of the Islamic movement. 0.82

00:38:46.000 These people, whether they're, you know, the Nazis or the Marxists, they're all fighting each other because when you dig the surface, they don't believe in freedom of speech.

00:38:54.000 They don't believe in freedom of religion.

00:38:56.000 They don't believe in individual liberty.

00:38:57.000 They don't believe in free markets.

00:38:59.000 I mean, they've got more in common with each other than, you know, than anybody else.

00:39:04.000 So what does that mean?

00:39:05.000 It's a lie.

00:39:06.000 Aren't we just, do you not feel a lot of the time that we're just being played like a Stradivarius?

00:39:12.000 Yes!

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00:40:27.000 You know, I mean, it's...

00:40:30.000 You know, there's a...

00:40:31.000 There's constantly an ever refreshing performance on the stage, you know, and the rest of us are just in the auditorium watching, distracted, you know, being shocked by this plot change and this scene change and, you know, and this dramatic effect and this flashing light.

00:40:49.000 And, you know, and what's happening now, I don't know, it seems to me the whole theatre of the inauguration, I was watching it in just sort of bewildered awe.

00:41:00.000 I just didn't.

00:41:02.000 Cakes here, swords there.

00:41:04.000 The new president of the United States doing the YMCA. I mean, Nazi salutes from the, or purported Nazi salutes.

00:41:12.000 I just didn't know which way to look next.

00:41:15.000 And it feels like being on the waltzers or the merry-go-round and the guys that are the fair hands, just spinning everything faster and faster and faster, keeping everybody dizzy.

00:41:27.000 And look what's going on.

00:41:30.000 You know, in the face of all the dreary stuff like the state of economies, the Ponzi scheme that is currencies, the quadrillions of debt, you know, the necessity to perpetuate war here, there and everywhere in order to keep the military industrial complex running.

00:41:47.000 And what are we talking about?

00:41:49.000 You know, here in the UK, we're talking about, you know, Prince Harry, you know, apparently having some kind of victory over...

00:41:57.000 The empire of Rupert Murdoch and whether or not Elon Musk performed knowingly a Nazi salute.

00:42:05.000 You know, the world's going to hell in a handcart.

00:42:08.000 Rome's burning.

00:42:09.000 We're all just watching the sideshows.

00:42:12.000 Do you not feel?

00:42:13.000 We're just being played.

00:42:14.000 Played.

00:42:15.000 No, yes, but no.

00:42:20.000 Because yes, because everything you said is correct, but no, because when you pull those threads, those threads lead to the deeper truth.

00:42:31.000 Even if we were...

00:42:33.000 I'm not suggesting that we do in some detail examine the spat between Harry and Murdoch, but if you were to pull that, you would look at old media institutional power versus old collapsing monarchical power and how that's playing out even in an attempt to retain, as you said, attention in a manageable space.

00:42:54.000 But, you know, recently I had this rather spiritual, if you...

00:42:58.000 If you want my opinion, epiphany that if God is an all-encompassing, all-powerful creator of all reality, then his signature would be present like DNA, an identifiable hallmark in every moment.

00:43:13.000 When this revelation came to me...

00:43:16.000 A different sort of presence entered my consciousness, which appears to be accessible, if not all the time, more frequently.

00:43:22.000 And in any moment, it seems to me, Lara and Neil, you can identify deeper truths that are somehow embedded in a single gesture or communicative exchange in the same way as that you could take a single cell from either one of us and were the science available and surely the science of God is limitless, you could recreate us in our entirety.

00:43:44.000 If there's a point to God at all, it's as an aspatial and atemporal being that can be antithetical to this nihilistic vortex that you earlier described, Neil, a dark and demonic or perhaps a light and luciferian force that...

00:44:01.000 It brings about and charges our lower nature for a long time.

00:44:07.000 I've had conversations with each of you separately about my belief that there needs to be a re-engagement of ulterior spiritual power, particularly the power of the cross and Christ Jesus, if we are to oppose these forces that you continually describe.

00:44:21.000 Although the theology that I'm, of course, referring to doesn't indicate but plainly states that...

00:44:30.000 Christ himself will resolve these issues and all we need to do is be prepared for that.

00:44:36.000 I mean, but I don't want to park myself in indolence and hopelessness, irrelevant and redundant.

00:44:44.000 I know that from my faith in him, works will unfold.

00:44:49.000 That because I believe in him and because I believe he will return, is returning, is present now in this moment, I will...

00:44:57.000 In accordance with that, I will become beautiful in his name and by his grace, not by my merit.

00:45:05.000 I suppose I mention this just so that amidst all the giddiness of the ceremonies that you've described, Neil, it seems significant to me that two moments that we've not yet touched upon are the fact that a Bible is there at all is an indication that there's a requirement for an authority that goes beyond human power.

00:45:26.000 And the fact that there is the prayer morning, and that the prayer morning created, once again, cultural controversy, as the clergy person, Bishop, um...

00:45:39.000 Errol, Errol, Errol, something like that.

00:45:42.000 Merrol, yeah, Bapé Bishop, like, you know, that bishop, that bishop.

00:45:47.000 She referenced cultural issues that are clearly divisive and are at odds with the...

00:45:56.000 Many people are concerned that this is a Project 2025 administration.

00:46:01.000 It's a phrase that you've heard.

00:46:02.000 It's reporting that I've seen that many of the executive orders already signed are in alignment with specific decrees in Project 2025, which is undergirded by the Heritage Think Tank, which even in the article that I read was called a kind of conservative think tank.

00:46:20.000 But it's a Christian think tank is really what it is.

00:46:24.000 And I wonder, Lara, what you think is the significance and importance of Christianity and Christ.

00:46:32.000 Why these ceremonies refer to Christianity and Christ?

00:46:36.000 Why...

00:46:37.000 We are now apparently experiencing some kind of revival of interest in Christianity.

00:46:44.000 And what you think is the significance of Christianity and Christ in particular, now that...

00:46:53.000 Wherever you stand in this argument, this is an enormous shift.

00:46:57.000 We're now not in, we've seen now Biden's ludicrous pardons.

00:47:02.000 Ludicrous pardons, which again is of course a reappropriation of the concept of forgiveness and the idea that one can wipe the slate clean, that there is some sacrament or covenant that could cleanse a person.

00:47:14.000 You preemptively can even deploy that for Fauci and the J6 committee.

00:47:23.000 This shift in power, because now, those guys, and I really appreciate you saying before, Lara, that a power as nefarious and insidious and ingenious as that which we're describing is, of course, finding forms of expression.

00:47:36.000 A significant example of that being an attempt to separate Musk and Trump, because if you have a Musk-Trump alliance, you have an albeit flawed conduit for continual free speech, at very least.

00:47:50.000 How do you think, Christianity will evolve, how opposition will evolve in the light of the inauguration.

00:47:59.000 Why is it significant that there has to be reference to Christian power in particular in these ceremonies, both in terms of the prayer breakfast and the controversy there and the Bible hovering?

00:48:11.000 Because even though these are somewhat trivial issues, like I said before, Neil, the threads of them surely lead to some deeper truth.

00:48:18.000 Lara.

00:48:19.000 Okay, so that's just 50 questions which I'll try to answer.

00:48:24.000 I'm glad he's going to you first, Lara, because I'm going to listen to your answer and then copy it.

00:48:31.000 Okay, well, this is the thing.

00:48:33.000 Having grown up outside of the United States and now being a citizen and having lived here for a long time, my children born here and so on, I have learned about something that I never understood from a distance, which is that...

00:48:47.000 When you go back to the Constitution and the papers, you know, the writings of the Founding Fathers, the thing that makes America different from all the other nations on Earth is that it was founded on a covenant with God.

00:49:01.000 So that's not something that people in Europe or Africa typically understand.

00:49:06.000 It's not built, that covenant with God is not built into the fabric of the literal founding of the country.

00:49:15.000 And it goes even beyond that.

00:49:17.000 Because if you look at the civil war in the, well, if you look at the war with the British in the United States.

00:49:24.000 That dog is messing up your audio, Lara.

00:49:27.000 That dog's messing up your audio.

00:49:29.000 Sorry, this one?

00:49:31.000 I think so.

00:49:32.000 It got in the way of the mic, I think.

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00:51:08.000 Sorry.

00:51:09.000 Okay, wait.

00:51:10.000 I'll say that again.

00:51:11.000 So it's not just the founding of the country.

00:51:15.000 If you go back and you look at the war against the British, what you will see is that the colonies, the 13 colonies, where did they organize?

00:51:26.000 What was the foundation of the resistance against the British Empire?

00:51:30.000 And against the crown, you know, which was the greatest power on earth at the time.

00:51:34.000 They did it inside the churches.

00:51:36.000 It came from the congregations.

00:51:38.000 And if you read the letters of the 13 colonies, you see how heavily they relied on that.

00:51:44.000 So in the United States, not across the world, not something that people across the world can relate to, necessarily, or even understand, in the United States, the founding of this country is 100% You know, inseparable from Judeo-Christian values and from this covenant with God.

00:52:03.000 And in fact, the taking of this country from the British, it came out of that. 0.97

00:52:08.000 And so what happened was that those people who didn't take this experiment very seriously, right, those people from, you know, around the world who looked at this and thought that the colonies didn't stand a chance, they then looked at this again after The defeat of the British and what did they try to do over the next hundred years?

00:52:29.000 There's historical evidence that shows How they tried to infiltrate the churches.

00:52:33.000 And they didn't really succeed.

00:52:35.000 They succeeded here and there.

00:52:36.000 So at the turn of the next century, where did they focus?

00:52:39.000 They focused on the seminaries.

00:52:41.000 And why am I bringing this?

00:52:43.000 What is my point?

00:52:43.000 Well, because you raised both the founding of America, why that hand on the Bible is there, in the inauguration ceremony, and then this pastor, this bishop, at the prayer breakfast, who stood there and lectured the president, as if he doesn't know exactly what the deal is with illegal immigration, and took a very Very selective political line.

00:53:02.000 But that was interesting because in recent times, in America, there's been a push towards secularism, right?

00:53:08.000 It's happening all over the world.

00:53:10.000 Christianity's going down, Islam's going up, blah, blah, blah. 0.99

00:53:13.000 We all know that.

00:53:14.000 But what has been driving that?

00:53:16.000 Well, they took the prayers out of, you know, public schools.

00:53:20.000 They used the separation of church and state to justify erasing, trying to erase God.

00:53:27.000 From the roots and the founding and the identity of this country.

00:53:31.000 And what people miss when they talk about, say, for example, the First Amendment, it isn't just about free speech.

00:53:37.000 If you read the First Amendment, it's about freedom of many freedoms, but including one of the first listed, the freedom of religion.

00:53:45.000 So what gives you the freedom to worship any God you want, to be part of any religion, to not be part of a religion if you don't want to?

00:53:52.000 In the United States, it's Judeo-Christian.

00:53:56.000 Values that give you that freedom.

00:53:59.000 I can tell you having lived in Iraq and Afghanistan and traveled all over the Middle East and Central Asia and many other places, including most, you know, a lot of Islamic countries, they don't have that kind of freedom there, okay? 0.98

00:54:11.000 It doesn't exist.

00:54:13.000 It doesn't exist.

00:54:14.000 It's not guaranteed.

00:54:15.000 It's not a given.

00:54:16.000 So you're right.

00:54:18.000 You know, people want to now say, well, Christianity is bad. 0.85

00:54:21.000 The crusades were awful. 0.98

00:54:23.000 Look at all the pedophilia.

00:54:24.000 And all of that is true.

00:54:26.000 All of that is valid, right?

00:54:28.000 I mean, those are the things I grew up focused on.

00:54:31.000 I was like, why would I want to identify myself with the church when the church does all these evil, terrible things?

00:54:36.000 But they don't tell you the whole truth.

00:54:38.000 You know, I was in a village in ancient Mesopotamia.

00:54:42.000 Which is now northern Iraq.

00:54:43.000 I lived in Iraq for five years.

00:54:45.000 And when I was in this village, where it was written in the history books that Jesus had walked those streets and all the rest of it, it was newly liberated from ISIS. And I was, I mean, they were still in control of Mosul at the time, which was, I mean, you could see it right there.

00:54:59.000 You could see the enemy lines and, you know, all of that was still happening.

00:55:02.000 ISIS was in control.

00:55:04.000 And so I was just trying to get a simple...

00:55:08.000 I wanted to make sure that it was true that Jesus really walked those streets before I reported it for 60 minutes.

00:55:13.000 And so I asked the simple question of how old is this town?

00:55:17.000 And I got a different answer from everyone.

00:55:19.000 So eventually I said, okay, this isn't working because everyone's concept of time is different here.

00:55:26.000 So I asked this, what is the oldest?

00:55:29.000 Take me to the oldest building in the village.

00:55:31.000 The oldest building.

00:55:32.000 And I expected...

00:55:34.000 To be taken to the mosque. 0.96

00:55:35.000 I never for one single moment thought that they would take me where I went, which was to where?

00:55:41.000 To the synagogue.

00:55:42.000 And they were all, all these Muslim people, oh yeah, this is the synagogue.

00:55:46.000 It had written into the wall when it was built and all the rest of it.

00:55:49.000 So then I was like, okay, I'm on a roll.

00:55:51.000 Take me to the next oldest building.

00:55:52.000 Again, expecting to go to the mosque.

00:55:54.000 No, where did I go?

00:55:55.000 I went to the church.

00:55:56.000 They took me to the Assyrian church.

00:55:58.000 And then when I went to the mosque, after that, the first mosque, Wasn't built in that town where Jesus did walk the streets until roughly 600 years after the first church.

00:56:14.000 So for 600 years, there wasn't a mosque there.

00:56:17.000 And I'm only, I raise this to you for this idea, is that This idea that somehow, if you stand up for Judeo-Christian values, and you stand up for God, now means the death of all other religions, and you're an evil, terrible person, and you're forcing your identity on someone. 0.72

00:56:37.000 No!

00:56:37.000 We've been shamed and bullied and forced into turning our backs on reality.

00:56:43.000 Because this covenant with God...

00:56:46.000 It's a real thing in the United States.

00:56:48.000 They don't do it in other places, but it means something here.

00:56:51.000 It really does.

00:56:53.000 And this idea that unless you turn your back on God, you're somehow violating the Constitution is a fake idea.

00:57:01.000 And as you know, Russell, you've talked about this a lot.

00:57:03.000 We are in a spiritual battle.

00:57:05.000 When you cover, like you said, I do a lot of my work looking at the reality of child trafficking.

00:57:12.000 I can tell you, when you look at the reality of that, there is no doubt in your mind, no doubt in your mind that evil does exist.

00:57:20.000 It is a real thing.

00:57:22.000 And so why would you...

00:57:23.000 Why would you believe in evil but you wouldn't believe in good?

00:57:26.000 You know, those are the kind of questions that you start to ask yourself.

00:57:29.000 And by the way, you know, the satanic church in America is currently suing the Supreme Court for the right to perform satanic ritual abortions in the United States. 0.61

00:57:39.000 So if you want to say this is conspiracy, go to the Supreme Court docket and listen to the words of the satanic church that thinks that they have a right. 0.67

00:57:49.000 To perform ritual abortions. 0.54

00:57:50.000 I actually can't believe that.

00:57:52.000 I actually, I mean, that is a brilliant way to...

00:57:54.000 That's spiritual warfare.

00:57:56.000 If it's true, if that's true, I really want to see the receipts for that.

00:57:59.000 Let's pull that up, because if the Supreme Court are currently reviewing whether the Satanic Church have the right to perform ritual abortions, okay, yeah, no, but just even the fact that such a concept would exist would fascinate me.

00:58:11.000 But even before you'd said that, there was a great deal to unpack, Neil.

00:58:15.000 I can't imagine that you are in a better position than you were when I stopped speaking to tackle what seems to be a pretty broad area, but I do know you, Neil.

00:58:23.000 I know you're to be a brilliantly capable man with an extraordinarily illustrious mind.

00:58:27.000 So make what you can of what both Lara and I have said, sir.

00:58:33.000 I think it encourages a thinking person to go in search of simplicity in a sense.

00:58:43.000 Quite early on in our conversation between the three of us, Lara, you said, you know, I had said something about the centrifugal force and you wanted quite rightly to say that Not too high!

00:59:12.000 Not too high, Neil!

00:59:14.000 Not at a right angle to my body, no!

00:59:17.000 So you were right to point that out.

00:59:20.000 When I talk about simplicity, we have absolutely for 300 years in the West been discouraged away from God.

00:59:31.000 I mean, I'm quite happy to say I think God is real.

00:59:34.000 And I believe in evil.

00:59:35.000 I believe in both.

00:59:37.000 And I think that's a simple thing to comprehend.

00:59:40.000 And it's a relief to say something like that.

00:59:46.000 You know, the image of a President of the United States of America placing his hand onto or over a Bible, a holy Bible.

00:59:58.000 He's supposed to be acknowledging something ancient, which is that no one, no mortal, no human being is above the law.

01:00:10.000 You know, that ultimately we are irresistibly Unquestionably, under the law.

01:00:19.000 Whether we're the President of the United States or just men and women in the street, we are under the law and we're answerable to it.

01:00:27.000 And it's something that's easy to forget and easy to overlook.

01:00:32.000 And it's so important.

01:00:34.000 Russell, you talked about Biden hardening his family and Liz Cheney and members of the January 6th Committee and so on.

01:00:45.000 That was a travesty.

01:00:47.000 That was an inversion of lawfulness.

01:00:52.000 It invites nothing less than all of us looking on when we see something like a get out of jail free card being handed to Anthony Fauci and all of the rest to think that the law is just something that powerful people have as a gift.

01:01:09.000 It's up to them.

01:01:10.000 If they say it's legal, it's legal.

01:01:13.000 And if they say it's...

01:01:14.000 Illegal for you, they'll put you in jail for it. 1.00

01:01:17.000 It's an absolute travesty.

01:01:19.000 And it's so important, I think, that we take a snapshot.

01:01:23.000 And Biden's not the first to do it.

01:01:25.000 They all do it.

01:01:26.000 They all, you know, presidents take this opportunity to absolve their lieutenants and their goons, you know, preemptively.

01:01:37.000 They all do it.

01:01:39.000 Neil, it's just a small thing I want to pick up on, and it's a short point.

01:01:43.000 Please be brief, Russell.

01:01:45.000 Is this.

01:01:47.000 When you say it's to indicate that we are not above the law, what do you mean by law?

01:01:54.000 Because law literally is...

01:01:56.000 Are you talking about mosaic law, a decree from God?

01:01:59.000 Are you talking about an absolute universal principle?

01:02:01.000 Or are you talking about Yahweh, Elohim?

01:02:05.000 From where?

01:02:06.000 From where?

01:02:07.000 From where are you deriving this absolute?

01:02:09.000 It can't be legislative or human.

01:02:11.000 It cannot be post-enlightenment law.

01:02:13.000 Because otherwise it will be utilised in exactly the way you're describing.

01:02:19.000 Unless it is a transcendent yet imminent God.

01:02:22.000 How will it not be subject to utility, Neil?

01:02:25.000 It's really, I mean, it is important, I think.

01:02:29.000 It's important, it's simple, it's easy to grasp this stuff.

01:02:32.000 You know, statute, legislation, the stuff that parliaments or Congress, these documents that they write, these millions of pages of legislation that they come up with and empower themselves to pass, are just so much confetti in the wind.

01:02:49.000 They're just workarounds.

01:02:51.000 They're just powerful people putting in writing.

01:02:56.000 The workarounds that let them do what they wanted to do in the first place.

01:03:00.000 That's legislation.

01:03:01.000 That's statute.

01:03:02.000 That's all that man-made stuff.

01:03:05.000 Every child knows the law.

01:03:08.000 It's right and wrong.

01:03:10.000 That's right.

01:03:11.000 Everyone knows.

01:03:13.000 You know what?

01:03:14.000 What is it?

01:03:15.000 Where's that coming from then?

01:03:16.000 Where's that coming from?

01:03:18.000 No, the law.

01:03:20.000 It's older than any religion.

01:03:24.000 It's God!

01:03:25.000 It's God!

01:03:25.000 The law just is!

01:03:27.000 It's not the law!

01:03:29.000 It's God!

01:03:30.000 It's God, Neil!

01:03:31.000 You can use any language.

01:03:33.000 You can use any language you want.

01:03:35.000 I think it's, personally, I think it's simpler to say that the law just is.

01:03:41.000 It can't be touched.

01:03:42.000 I am!

01:03:44.000 As Moses said, as Christ says on the water, I am!

01:03:48.000 I am the moment living!

01:03:50.000 I am the living water!

01:03:51.000 I am the law!

01:03:53.000 I am a jealous God.

01:03:55.000 No gods but me.

01:03:56.000 I mean, I don't think it's just semantics because law indicates construction created.

01:04:05.000 God indicates constructor creator.

01:04:09.000 And if we make it about the object of law rather than the creator, then the utility flows out of that, Neil.

01:04:18.000 I just think it's simpler than that.

01:04:21.000 We all know.

01:04:23.000 We all know the difference between right and wrong.

01:04:26.000 And when you watch...

01:04:28.000 - Jesus! - When you went. - Jesus! - He can't stand it.

01:04:36.000 But you're giving it names, which is appropriate because of your particular personal point of view.

01:04:44.000 You know, you're personalising it.

01:04:46.000 You're giving it a name.

01:04:48.000 No! 0.99

01:04:49.000 I had to kill the person to get this. 1.00

01:04:51.000 I had to kill the person to get this. 0.99

01:04:52.000 It's the opposite of personalising it. 0.99

01:04:54.000 I was personalising it before.

01:04:57.000 Now, I'm irrelevant.

01:04:58.000 I'm irrelevant. 0.79

01:04:59.000 I mean, I'm still trying my best to be me and I still want attention and I still want power because I'm fallen and broken and desperate and silly.

01:05:08.000 But it's not a personalization.

01:05:09.000 It's the recognition that when you accept Christ as man, the perfect life, perfectly lived, the perfect sacrifice to show that maximal power is the maximal power to sacrifice yourself for the common good.

01:05:20.000 The very thing on the altar of the present in this moment, in your mind, Neil, Lara, me, all of us watching this, there is the aperture.

01:05:31.000 Of consciousness, and there is the apex of the interaction between apparently external stimuli and the reception of that stimuli.

01:05:41.000 Now, if on that altar you place your personal urgency and your desire, then you have...

01:05:49.000 In a sense, replaced Christ.

01:05:52.000 And if you actually, if you refute that, if you repent and take yourself off the altar, the self and what the self wants, and I'm not suggesting that I'm capable of doing that alone.

01:06:01.000 In fact, I'm telling you that I'm not.

01:06:02.000 And in this moment, I'm not even sure if I'm saying this now because it's Russell wants attention, Russell wants to get his point across, or because Russell resolutely believes in Christ Jesus.

01:06:11.000 But it's only by accepting the transubstantiation of focusing on him in the present that you can overcome your own Russellness.

01:06:21.000 And surely overcoming Russellness is an objective to be pursued. 0.70

01:06:25.000 But please, Neil.

01:06:27.000 All I'm saying in simple terms is that none of us can touch the law.

01:06:33.000 That's it.

01:06:34.000 You can't change it.

01:06:36.000 Lara was talking there about the US Constitution and the Founding Fathers.

01:06:48.000 It's important to know that underpinning it is that sense that they weren't inventing anything.

01:06:56.000 You know, when they wrote the Constitution, in the same way when Magna Carta was written in 1213, it didn't matter.

01:07:04.000 I mean, it was being written down.

01:07:06.000 It was like a catch-up.

01:07:07.000 It was like a reminder.

01:07:08.000 But the point was, they weren't creating anything new.

01:07:12.000 They were just saying it in the knowledge that they could neither touch it nor change it.

01:07:19.000 Right is right and wrong is wrong.

01:07:22.000 That's all I'm saying.

01:07:24.000 And it's very important to watch, as an example, an outgoing president letting people away with murder in order to realise that we do not live in a lawful society.

01:07:40.000 We live in a society of legislation.

01:07:43.000 Which is written by people who are on the make and on the take and not one, every word of it is written on water.

01:07:51.000 It's utterly without purpose.

01:07:53.000 All that matters is that right is right and wrong is wrong and we all know it and we can't touch it or change it.

01:08:00.000 That's all I was saying.

01:08:02.000 Now, for you it's made manifest in the Eucharist and it's made manifest in Scripture.

01:08:10.000 But it's simpler than that.

01:08:12.000 You can't touch it.

01:08:14.000 You can't change it.

01:08:16.000 Can I say one thing?

01:08:17.000 I think what you're talking about, Neil, is embodied in this.

01:08:22.000 It's just like there's only one truth.

01:08:24.000 People try to get you to understand.

01:08:26.000 They say my truth, your truth.

01:08:27.000 No, that's nonsense.

01:08:29.000 There's only one truth.

01:08:30.000 We sat here, we had this conversation, and we didn't, and so on and so on, right?

01:08:34.000 So I take refuge in that as a journalist, because my job is to try to figure out the truth.

01:08:40.000 And if that's my master, who am I really serving?

01:08:44.000 Because if there's only one truth...

01:08:46.000 It saves us all from ourselves, all those frailties and prejudices and biases and opinions and all the rest of it, right?

01:08:54.000 Because if there's only one truth, where does truth come from?

01:08:58.000 It doesn't come from darkness.

01:09:00.000 It comes from light.

01:09:01.000 It doesn't come from deception, right?

01:09:04.000 It comes from honesty and integrity and all these things.

01:09:06.000 And you know what I'm going to say, Russell?

01:09:08.000 You know it.

01:09:09.000 I am the way, the truth, and the life.

01:09:12.000 The truth is God.

01:09:13.000 And I don't think it's simpler than that.

01:09:16.000 The truth is God.

01:09:17.000 And so, yes, you're right, Neil.

01:09:19.000 We know in our hearts the difference between, you know, we know what the Ten Commandments say.

01:09:25.000 Thou shalt not kill, except we complicate it. 0.99

01:09:27.000 Okay, now you want to kill my child. 1.00

01:09:29.000 Now can I kill you? 1.00

01:09:30.000 Is it okay? 1.00

01:09:30.000 But, you know, what we know intrinsically, if you want that simplicity... 1.00

01:09:35.000 We know thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.

01:09:39.000 We know these things implicitly.

01:09:41.000 You're right.

01:09:42.000 It is very simple.

01:09:43.000 The truth is always very simple.

01:09:45.000 And thank God, because they throw so much ambiguity at it.

01:09:50.000 They throw so much crap in the air that we're actually spent a few minutes discussing Elon Musk's hand gestures, which was, you know, it's like a waste of time. 1.00

01:09:59.000 You might as well suck your brain out. 1.00

01:10:01.000 And flush it down the toilet. 1.00

01:10:02.000 That's how useful it is.

01:10:04.000 I think it's also, I mean, Russell, I think it's also, it's eminently, you know, useful, I think, to remember that when it comes to Jesus, that, you know, Jesus made plain when he turned up to begin his mission, when he began to speak as an adult man.

01:10:26.000 He said, I've not come to write the law.

01:10:30.000 I've just come to remind everybody that the law is the law and that you're not obeying it.

01:10:36.000 You know, he was pointing his fingers at the Pharisees in particular, upon whom he heaped a program. 0.75

01:10:43.000 But he wasn't claiming.

01:10:45.000 He didn't claim to be the author of the truth or the law.

01:10:51.000 He just said, look, we all know the law.

01:10:53.000 The problem is you guys are breaking it.

01:10:56.000 Just follow the law.

01:10:59.000 That was, you know, even Jesus, you know, was saying the same.

01:11:06.000 It's not me.

01:11:07.000 It's not about me.

01:11:08.000 Just do the right thing, because you know what it is.

01:11:12.000 Indeed, perhaps part of the manifestation of Christ as man is to inculcate and instantiate the principle of substantiation.

01:11:20.000 Elsewise, sacrifice was required to be relational, e.g.

01:11:24.000 Abraham-Isaac.

01:11:25.000 Sacrifice has to be played out relationally.

01:11:28.000 Through the triune God, the inauguration of the Holy Spirit, through Christ, we're provided with the cartilage between the deity and the material.

01:11:39.000 Now, I just want to say that when you said, wrote upon the water, and when you said, Lara, about light, the very first words of the great book, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

01:11:48.000 The earth was without form.

01:11:49.000 Now, I suppose the only difference or differentiation that I'm trying to refer to is the idea that...

01:12:16.000 For law to be, there has to be a principle behind it.

01:12:21.000 And we were so close to C.S. Lewis's definition of the presence of Christ in mere Christianity that it seems impolite not to at least reference it, that his own argument...

01:12:32.000 From atheism to Christ Jesus was predicated on his own visceral knowledge of right and wrong that all of us know when we have violated that law.

01:12:43.000 We know it.

01:12:44.000 We know it already because it is.

01:12:46.000 It is I am.

01:12:47.000 It is the truth and the way.

01:12:49.000 And I just suppose that we're not really querying.

01:12:54.000 Or quarrelling over anything, really, as long as we all arrive, it appears that we're all arriving roughly the same place.

01:13:00.000 And I just want to say, as we bring this to conclusion, that...

01:13:03.000 I'm actually very happy with how this has gone.

01:13:05.000 I've really, really enjoyed it because even when we talked about quite tabloid and scintillating stuff like the hand gestures and the hovering above the Bible, that we did manage to find our way to why it was indicative of a deeper truth.

01:13:21.000 Because even I think when we're fascinated by something that's ludicrously profane and overtly pornographic, we're dealing with something.

01:13:31.000 We're dealing with something. 0.91

01:13:33.000 Why is the Lily Phillips or Bonnie Blue or the Whore of Babylon or Ezekiel's prostitutes irrelevant and redolent? 0.96

01:13:43.000 Why is the desecration of female erotic power significant?

01:13:47.000 In all of it, there is great power.

01:13:50.000 In all of it, there is great power.

01:13:51.000 And I suppose what I wanted to celebrate or at least acknowledge was that from...

01:13:59.000 Covering these topics about the WHO and covering matters around the inauguration and the constant reference to something sacred or at least an unimpeachable or irrefutable or absolute power.

01:14:13.000 There's a lot...

01:14:14.000 And I'm really grateful that we got the opportunity to look at stuff as practical as tactics to separate Musk and Trump being part of an ongoing globalist agenda, as well as through Whitney Webb's work that we looked at briefly, recognising that there are no human powers that are going to independently deliver us.

01:14:41.000 That's not going to happen.

01:14:43.000 That's not going to happen.

01:14:45.000 It's on us.

01:14:46.000 Yeah, it's on us.

01:14:48.000 And I think when you said that, Laura, about like, you know, that we have to resist the vortex and you saying that, Neil, that gravity does precisely that, it reminds us of our individual agency.

01:15:00.000 Because otherwise we live in this terrible age, as you referred to earlier, Neil, of, you know, the age of commentary, the chattering classes, chattering. 0.96

01:15:08.000 And it's sort of it's like suddenly we become dreadfully inactive.

01:15:12.000 And one of the reasons that I enjoy our conversation is because I know how active you are, in particular, Laura, around the child trafficking issues.

01:15:20.000 And Neil, I know how you live the principles of the soil and the symbol through your, let's face it, very Celtic interpretation and therefore pagan interpretation of meaning itself.

01:15:36.000 And I'm just very grateful to both of you for joining me today.

01:15:39.000 I hope that you'll both agree to join me next week for another Oracle episode where we will discuss whatever issues are defining the never-ending carnival world as we are, as Neil alluded to in one of these many great metaphors over the course of this conversation, perhaps while being...

01:15:57.000 Giddyingly and dizzyingly distracted from what we ought to be focused on.

01:16:02.000 Lara, thank you so much for joining us today.

01:16:04.000 Russell, thank you.

01:16:05.000 I want to point out one thing, which is just that we've never had a president.

01:16:10.000 We might need an hour.

01:16:11.000 No, very quickly.

01:16:13.000 We've never had a president sign executive orders in the presence of the people who voted him into power.

01:16:20.000 So that means something.

01:16:22.000 Not all of it is a show.

01:16:24.000 For bad reasons.

01:16:25.000 Sometimes it can be a show for good reasons, right?

01:16:28.000 Because that is a nod to the people who really gave Donald Trump the mandate that he has.

01:16:35.000 Let's see what he does with it.

01:16:37.000 Neil?

01:16:38.000 I just feel that this conversation, I was obviously a part of this conversation, but hopefully I was listening more than I was talking.

01:16:47.000 And I just hope it's encouraging for people to see that what we all have to try and do.

01:16:54.000 After all this time, is to sort of fumble and feel our way towards the right way to say, to express these thoughts, to articulate these ideas, because it hasn't been fashionable for centuries, really, to openly be in this territory.

01:17:13.000 You know, and if people listening felt that any one of us or all of us at different moments, you know, sort of lost our train of thought and it became confusing.

01:17:22.000 It's because we are finding our way into it.

01:17:24.000 It's difficult.

01:17:25.000 It's difficult stuff.

01:17:26.000 These are huge ideas.

01:17:28.000 The truth!

01:17:29.000 You know, we're trying to find a way to the truth.

01:17:31.000 You know, and the truth on the one hand is very simple, but it has been so obfuscated and buried and we're so distracted from looking at it and understanding that each one of us holds it in our hearts without having to be told.

01:17:43.000 To be reminded of that is profound and it's a bumpy road to get to it.

01:17:49.000 Neil and Lara, you're both so beautiful.

01:17:52.000 I find it impossible to declare which of you I'm more in love with.

01:17:56.000 I really do.

01:17:57.000 Thank you so much.

01:18:01.000 It's me, obviously.

01:18:03.000 How could it not be?

01:18:04.000 Thank you so much for participating in our inaugural, in every sense of the word, episode of Stay Free Oracles.

01:18:12.000 And we will do this all again next Thursday.

01:18:17.000 Thanks for joining us and we'll see you for another episode of Russell Brand's Stay Free Oracles.

01:18:21.000 No, we're just going to call it Stay Free Oracles next week.

01:18:24.000 And we will be back on Monday.

01:18:26.000 Not with more of the same, but with...

01:18:28.000 with more of the different.

01:18:29.000 Until then, if you can, stay free.

01:18:32.000 Switching, switching, switching, switching.

01:18:51.000 Switch on.

01:18:52.000 Many switching.

01:18:53.000 Switch on, switch in, switch on, switch off. Many switch in, switch on, switch off. Many switch in.

01:19:04.000 Switch on.

01:19:10.000 Many switching.

01:19:11.000 Switch on.

01:19:16.000 Many switching, switch on, switch on.

01:19:19.000 Many switching, switch on, switch on, switch on.

01:19:23.000 Many switching, switch on, switch on.

01:19:26.000 Many switching, switch on, switch on.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - January 23, 2025

The Oracle Series: Trump, Globalism, and the New Spiritual Battle – SF525

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