Stay Free - Russel Brand - They hijacked Christianity... - SF724

00:00:08.000 Russell Brand.

00:00:09.000 Russell Brand.

00:00:10.000 Controversial conspiracy theorist.

00:00:12.000 Trying to bring real journalism to the American people.

00:00:17.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:00:18.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand.

00:00:21.000 Wherever you are watching us, you might be on YouTube or X or Instagram or wherever.

00:00:24.000 Make your way over to Rumble and Rumble Premium for a fantastic conversation with a brilliant guest, Michael H. Peters.

00:00:31.000 Here's a little bit about Michael H. Peters.

00:00:33.000 Michael H. Peters is an engineer, entrepreneur, and author whose work spans technology, blockchain innovation, design, and leadership.

00:00:41.000 Trained at the Rose Holman Institute of Technology and connected to the Harvard Graduate School of Design through teaching and advisory roles, he has spent years working across fields ranging from development and education to emerging technologies.

00:00:54.000 Through his books, The System or The Ecosystem, he explores the tension between institutional religion and what he sees as a more relational lived experience of Christianity, centered on community, identity, and a direct relationship with God.

00:01:12.000 Before we get to Michael, remember that you can support us by signing up to Rumble Premium.

00:01:18.000 And oh, if you haven't got my book yet, remember you can buy it.

00:01:22.000 I found out that they're banning it on Amazon in the UK, which sort of excites me a little bit.

00:01:27.000 What's in here that the British government don't want you to get your hands on?

00:01:31.000 Well, why don't you find out by reading it?

00:01:32.000 You can also get the audiobook for free by clicking the link in the description.

00:01:36.000 Here's my guest, Michael Peters.

00:01:44.000 Behind that camera is interesting, Michael.

00:01:46.000 Who else is there?

00:01:46.000 Where are you?

00:01:49.000 I am in a living room, and there's I don't know, maybe eight or ten extra folks that are family.

00:01:57.000 Capital F family.

00:01:57.000 All right, how do we do that?

00:02:02.000 Yeah, we're taping.

00:02:04.000 Yeah, I can at least do this.

00:02:10.000 Well, yes, we.

00:02:11.000 Yeah, okay, let's have a look who's here.

00:02:12.000 Right, so this is I'm speaking to Michael H. Peters.

00:02:16.000 Who's one of the compilers, in fact, the writer of the ecosystem?

00:02:19.000 Hey, look at that lovely family.

00:02:24.000 I'm drawn to the lad in the, or the lad or person in red in the corner of the couch who I think is being very cool.

00:02:32.000 That is Micah.

00:02:34.000 Hey, Micah, what's going on?

00:02:37.000 Hello, everybody.

00:02:39.000 Thanks for making time for us and my apologies for being late.

00:02:42.000 It's my fault.

00:02:43.000 I try and find ways of blaming other people.

00:02:46.000 Do you want to hear them?

00:02:49.000 No, no, not interested.

00:02:50.000 Well, I hear those in golf all the time.

00:02:52.000 Everybody I play with has a list they come prepared with for this bad shot, that bad shot, that bad score.

00:02:59.000 So it's just, I'm used to that.

00:03:01.000 You know, pretty much every day there's an excuse already created.

00:03:05.000 What I'm thinking really is that I'm just going to accept my fallenness.

00:03:10.000 It's unending, unending fallenness.

00:03:13.000 The narrow is the gate, Michael.

00:03:15.000 I mean, like this morning, I've spent a lot, I'm going for a lot of profound personal change.

00:03:21.000 Very, very well, I don't know if it's quickly or slowly.

00:03:24.000 How would I ever compare?

00:03:25.000 But it's it's it feels it feels quick to me.

00:03:29.000 The third person bio, right?

00:03:31.000 I'm gonna read this.

00:03:32.000 I'm reading a book right now at the moment, but I'm gonna just read this bio really to get me into the right mood and to see if I agree with what this bio is and to see if you agree with it.

00:03:42.000 Michael H. Peters is an engineer, blockchain innovator, and author who spent more than four decades quietly dismantling one of the most powerful systems on earth institutional religion.

00:03:52.000 Trained at Rose Horman Institute of Technology and Harvard Graduate School of Design.

00:03:57.000 Wow.

00:03:58.000 Michael built ventures in smart cities.

00:04:00.000 Wow.

00:04:01.000 Decentralized trust infrastructure and blockchain innovation.

00:04:05.000 All the while operating a parallel life.

00:04:08.000 I like that.

00:04:10.000 Parallel life was going on.

00:04:11.000 I reckon Micah is at the center of a parallel life.

00:04:14.000 Micah and that giant strawberry.

00:04:16.000 As a house church practitioner who has never taken a single dollar for his teaching, his two volume work, The System or the Ecosystem, is available free in five languages, draws a blazing distinction between the man made religious machine and the living organic community Jesus actually designed.

00:04:38.000 He is not building a movement.

00:04:40.000 He's pointing to something older than every institution trying to own it.

00:04:48.000 Michael, here's the spiral I've been on for a long, long time.

00:04:56.000 A kind of an awareness of greatness and the potential of greatness, reaching towards it, personalizing it, trying to own it.

00:05:05.000 Kind of a bit like Lucifer, in fact, wanting my own domain and my own dominion that I want to be the center of.

00:05:14.000 Then successive falls, successive falls, personal falls, to the point of like most recently, Christ came to me in my abdomen.

00:05:27.000 I realized in sort of an instant that I'd previously held a version of Christ in my mind that I kind of had pinioned via the intellect into an object.

00:05:41.000 I wasn't a Christian.

00:05:43.000 Either Michael, I was like, Oh, yeah, I get it.

00:05:45.000 Like, what religions are kind of, I would agree with the general trend and tendency indicated by this AI generated but pretty good bio here.

00:05:56.000 Like, the religion is a sort of, oh, I get it.

00:06:02.000 It's an attempt to systematize the organic.

00:06:06.000 I probably wouldn't have reached for the word organic, I might have said something like natural or transcendent or something like that.

00:06:13.000 Anyway, now where I am, having had that experience of.

00:06:16.000 Christ coming to me, I'm reading the Bible and detecting in it truths that I'd encountered before in other ways.

00:06:25.000 Right.

00:06:26.000 Some of the things that are on my mind, right, primarily what's on my mind, given that you're the guest and you're the person that I'm here to learn from, is I'm tired of talking about cyclical news events and I'm tired of having conversations that are, by their nature, constricted and restrained and held within a paradigm.

00:06:51.000 That exists in false polarity in order to maintain precisely that ongoing tension.

00:07:01.000 An example being the culture war.

00:07:03.000 As long as you're trapped in that dynamic, you cannot penetrate.

00:07:08.000 Probably.

00:07:09.000 You're right.

00:07:10.000 Yes.

00:07:11.000 The thing that's probably interested me most from the intro that I read there is he is not building a movement, he is pointing to something older than every institution trying to own it.

00:07:23.000 So, we're now on our show, Stay Free with Russell Brand, attempting to speak with people and get educated by people that could help us do this to create a new confederacy of autonomous, independent communities that are energy independent and food independent, that are run fully democratically.

00:07:46.000 And politics is drained of ideology, it becomes purely about pragmatism.

00:07:54.000 Okay, this is our resources, this is the timeframe.

00:07:57.000 These are the people.

00:07:58.000 It doesn't have any inflection of, but we're Muslim, of course, or we're homosexual, or we're Christian, or we're heterosexual.

00:08:05.000 Like it's devoid of that, purely rational, purely engineering. 0.58

00:08:09.000 And then when it comes to the matter of Christ, how does every individual receive the bounty that he offers us, that he tells us, in fact, we already have, and in the new covenant are now in a posture to receive if we're able to turn away from the world and towards him?

00:08:28.000 When I'm reading your books, firstly, like, You know, like all self published stuff always looks a bit crazy, you know, like stuff like the cats and, you know, you've got a Lego cat and a.

00:08:39.000 The person who did the Lego cat sitting here, so go easy.

00:08:43.000 Yeah, well, I mean, great work.

00:08:47.000 But what I mean to say is that there's something about self published work in general, would you agree?

00:08:54.000 Like that, there's something that the world of commerce and commodity does exceptionally well.

00:09:00.000 It makes things look like they've got some sort of superficial value.

00:09:04.000 Yeah.

00:09:05.000 When I'm reading your work, I know that you know the answer.

00:09:10.000 I know that you're moving towards it.

00:09:13.000 So, can you tell me when you say something like the system versus the ecosystem, how does that apply?

00:09:22.000 How do we apply?

00:09:23.000 Is that relevant to what I'm saying?

00:09:25.000 That I believe that our focus should be establishing independent autonomous communities, decoupling from the empire, using our own currencies, growing our own food, having our own energy, and Orienting everything towards Christ as best we can in our fallenness.

00:09:44.000 I think that might be the cart before the horse.

00:09:47.000 Just if you can hear me out for a second on that topic.

00:09:52.000 I think the nature.

00:09:54.000 Have you ever read the book Flatlands?

00:09:56.000 You're familiar with that book?

00:09:57.000 It's a 150 year old book.

00:10:00.000 It's called Flatlands.

00:10:01.000 We can't make this content without the support of our partners.

00:10:03.000 Here's a message from one now. 0.97

00:10:04.000 Who knows when the government will decide to switch you off or hunt you down like a pig? 0.99

00:10:08.000 Squeal! 0.98

00:10:10.000 We're going to need a currency that's beyond the reach of corrupt global institutions.

00:10:15.000 Rumble wallets are what you need, and cryptocurrencies are what you require.

00:10:19.000 You could choose from Bitcoin, stablecoin tied to the US dollar, or tether gold.

00:10:22.000 That's backed by real gold.

00:10:24.000 How much control have you got over your money right now in this second?

00:10:27.000 None.

00:10:28.000 It's being controlled by the monarchy and the Rothschilds. 0.53

00:10:32.000 Technology has changed everything now, and it's changing how money works.

00:10:34.000 Crypto started as niche, but now it's going mainstream.

00:10:37.000 Faster payments, more control, fewer middlemen.

00:10:38.000 This ain't hype.

00:10:39.000 This is where it's going.

00:10:40.000 And Gensler today's.

00:10:41.000 Easier than you think.

00:10:42.000 That's where Rumble Wallet comes in.

00:10:43.000 With Rumble Wallet, you can buy Bitcoin, whole dollar backed stable coins, even digital gold backed by real gold all in one place.

00:10:49.000 Setup is simple.

00:10:50.000 It connects with MoonPay.

00:10:51.000 So you can use your debit card, credit card, or bank account and be up and running in minutes.

00:10:56.000 Start small $10, $50, $100.

00:10:58.000 It's not about the amount, it's about getting early and understanding what's coming next.

00:11:01.000 And once you set up, you can even tip your fumble.

00:11:03.000 Tip your fumble.

00:11:04.000 Fumblereaters.

00:11:05.000 I'm sorry, we're going to have to leave that as it is.

00:11:07.000 Like me, directly.

00:11:08.000 Do this now.

00:11:09.000 Scan the QR code, click the link in the description, download Rumble Wallet.

00:11:12.000 From there, you can tap buy, and you're in the game.

00:11:15.000 Take control of your money and get started with Rumble Wallet Today.

00:11:18.000 It's a mathematical book in essence, but I think it describes something really important to this discussion of community.

00:11:26.000 And by that I mean Jesus came, the Word became flesh and dwelt for a while among us.

00:11:31.000 He lived with us, He made His home with us.

00:11:34.000 You know, in the beginning it was the Word.

00:11:35.000 The Word was God.

00:11:37.000 You know, the whole idea that the God who lived outside of time, not constrained by matter, not constrained by the laws of physics or relativity, He lived totally outside of all of that.

00:11:50.000 He actually came to this planet not only to die for us, that's only the beginning.

00:11:56.000 That's the good news of Jesus Christ that his blood can wash us and cleanse us.

00:12:01.000 The covenant with God.

00:12:03.000 We can talk more about walking through the pieces and Abraham later, but this God came and dwelt with us and lived with us to show us on earth as it is in heaven, to show us a dimension that we can't possibly apprehend with the smartest mind, with the most powerful intellect or.

00:12:24.000 Intuition, I cannot see, ear cannot hear.

00:12:27.000 It doesn't even enter into our mind what is possible with a God who is not constrained by time or matter, right?

00:12:35.000 So, with that in mind, Jesus came and he cracked open this new dimension.

00:12:40.000 So, you've got an XY axis and you have a Z axis, right?

00:12:45.000 The XY axis defines flatlands.

00:12:48.000 We can always move the puzzle pieces around and get whatever we want.

00:12:52.000 But Jesus came to say no.

00:12:54.000 This isn't about religion.

00:12:55.000 This isn't about rules.

00:12:56.000 This isn't about this present age and its decay.

00:13:00.000 Entropy is the word for that.

00:13:01.000 Everything tends towards disorder, towards decay.

00:13:05.000 And he said, Not in my world, not in my universe, right?

00:13:09.000 Not in my dimension, we'll say.

00:13:11.000 Tasting the powers of the coming age, you know, the new realm, tasting the powers of the new realm, the coming age, is not defined by rules or time or gravity.

00:13:22.000 So we kind of know all those pieces.

00:13:25.000 But what he came and wants us to experience is Zoe life, which you'll see repeatedly in the ecosystem book.

00:13:32.000 And that's the Z axis, just by, or Gen Z, just by coincidence. 0.59

00:13:37.000 But the idea is that he came to draw us up as we lose our flesh, as we lose our life, as we crack open the alabaster jar and let the ointment flow, as we give up this present age, when we're willing to let go of the hold it has on us, the gravity of owning reputation, owning possessions, owning. 0.72

00:13:57.000 Anything, if we let go of that, then he's able to fill us.

00:14:01.000 Take up your cross, deny your very self. 0.98

00:14:04.000 You know, these are concepts that just aren't normal for humans, for mammals.

00:14:08.000 So, trying to make peace with the mammal world and rearrange the deck chairs so that, you know, we all share our water, we all share our orange juice, we all share our livestock.

00:14:20.000 I've had some pretty famous Christian authors fly into where I live to talk about this over the last 25 years, and they came up with circling up a bunch of trailers.

00:14:32.000 In a field in Minnesota, and said, Okay, now we'll have two cars and we'll share them.

00:14:37.000 We'll call that community, and all your money goes into one pot, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:14:42.000 Well, that's not God's plan.

00:14:44.000 Acts 2, no one counted their possessions as their own, was not socialism.

00:14:49.000 It was, I don't care anymore.

00:14:51.000 I don't care anymore.

00:14:52.000 I'm free.

00:14:54.000 So whatever I get, I get.

00:14:55.000 It's in God's hands.

00:14:56.000 I trust Him.

00:14:56.000 My life belongs to Him now.

00:14:59.000 And so the community idea is emptying yourself and making yourself nothing.

00:15:04.000 That's what.

00:15:05.000 Jesus is described as.

00:15:07.000 And as we all have his spirit in us and we're sharing a communal life in the spirit, my kingdom is neither here nor there.

00:15:14.000 It's within you.

00:15:15.000 I'll put my heart in you.

00:15:17.000 I'll put my spirit in you.

00:15:18.000 My father and I were with you.

00:15:20.000 Now we'll be in you.

00:15:21.000 You get to share my DNA.

00:15:23.000 Now, if that's our place, then all the rest of the stuff kind of falls together all by itself.

00:15:33.000 Hmm.

00:15:34.000 So the.

00:15:36.000 XY axis, as you say, that's a kind of a 2D space, yes?

00:15:42.000 Like 2D space.

00:15:45.000 And the offering of the z-axis, even using 2D and 3D, is insufficient, isn't it?

00:15:55.000 It's insufficient as a metaphor, but it's comparable.

00:16:00.000 How could something on a flat two-dimensional space appreciate that there's another dimension?

00:16:09.000 Now, the thing.

00:16:10.000 That's right.

00:16:12.000 But the problem, the challenge.

00:16:15.000 Michael, like when you say, I'm, you know, cart before the horse, I'm not disputing that you're correct.

00:16:24.000 I'm not.

00:16:25.000 I'm saying instead that he came, he demonstrated that through his life.

00:16:36.000 Nevertheless, the passion, the passion I think is very interesting in light of what you've just said about emptying self.

00:16:42.000 And one might, I suppose, then suggest, And even discuss whether or not Christ's, obviously, Christ's challenge is unique, but distinct in a way that's very important from the saints, because I get the sense that sainthood is precisely as you described an ability to empty yourself out and to receive the living water of Christ.

00:17:04.000 And part of that might be a kind of a negating, abnegating, voiding of passion.

00:17:12.000 Yet our Lord experiences a very human, Gethsemane, a clear desire.

00:17:20.000 Take this cup away from me.

00:17:22.000 Take it away from me.

00:17:23.000 Yeah.

00:17:24.000 If it is your will, your will, not mine, be done.

00:17:27.000 Like it's not, it isn't, Christ doesn't go because this is all nothing.

00:17:33.000 Look, see, bang, See, no big deal.

00:17:37.000 Like it's like, oh my God, it's killing me.

00:17:39.000 It's killing me.

00:17:40.000 Ah, and I, and he is God.

00:17:42.000 And I'm not.

00:17:44.000 So, like, you know, so like, you know, when I'm, I, I, I experience Gethsemane level challenges.

00:17:51.000 Pretty, I mean, you know, for me, I'm not saying that that's an immovable bar.

00:17:57.000 The Christ's version seems to be to take on all sin upon himself, to act as a kind of a magnet that pulls in all earthly evil onto himself, to somehow reverse the charge, reduce, eliminate the charge, instantiate a new frequency, a frequency inaccessible unless he himself does that somehow.

00:18:20.000 But for me, the resistance.

00:18:22.000 Pardon?

00:18:23.000 Ah.

00:18:24.000 Go on, that sounds like an important intervention.

00:18:28.000 Not if I'm interrupting you, so you can keep going if you want.

00:18:33.000 Well, okay, so that's part of it the absorption, the nullification.

00:18:38.000 Because, see, when we use Christian language, like you did at the beginning, like the covenant of his blood, we're saved by his blood, we're saved by his wounds, right?

00:18:45.000 As an image system, as a poetic, I understand that.

00:18:48.000 But when we're sort of level jumping, Michael, between frequency, vibration, and interdimensional consciousness, and very traditional Christian language, like covered by the Blood, it's hard, I think.

00:19:01.000 Do you not think it's hard to parcel and shepherd the idea?

00:19:07.000 It's hard to carry the idea that what I'm trying to undertake is this kind of, you know, like an idea that's in Stoicism as well.

00:19:15.000 You know, you are dead, says Marcus Aurelius, now live the rest of your life properly. 0.98

00:19:20.000 The Buddhists stop dragging the corpse around, you're already dead. 1.00

00:19:24.000 But I'm always mentioned, whenever I mention Stoicism, C.S. Lewis' quote, Error is to assume that what a man can do sometimes, he can do always. 0.95

00:19:33.000 There are points, there's been points today where I've felt in the absolute flow of him the absolute flow of, like, oh yeah, he's here, he's me, he's coming through, he's coming through.

00:19:43.000 But then there are other points where I'm back to Russell when I'm like trying to take a shortcut through the gas station to avoid these roadworks and the guys that are working there, like they go, No, you can't drive over there.

00:19:54.000 And I'm like, Can't or you're not letting me.

00:19:59.000 No, it's the policy.

00:20:01.000 And I go, What do you mean, policy?

00:20:03.000 And the example I use is I go, Gravity is a rule that you cannot, you have no choice as to whether or not to ignore gravity unless, yeah, you're in interdimensional, you know, our extra.

00:20:15.000 Astral trip.

00:20:15.000 We've been invited to walk on water.

00:20:18.000 Yes, But, you know, the world record for that's less than a minute for humans.

00:20:25.000 Well, as far as we know.

00:20:29.000 You're right, you're right.

00:20:29.000 But record means recorded.

00:20:34.000 So, but like.

00:20:35.000 Too many Guinness after that, the Guinness world.

00:20:39.000 The record for walking on Guinness is actually, you can do that for quite a while.

00:20:46.000 So, anyway, what I'm saying is that.

00:20:49.000 You know, it's really hard for me to know how to use what I'm experiencing viscerally and in my body.

00:20:57.000 It's difficult to see how to use it in the world.

00:21:01.000 And the reason I suppose that I'm trying to apply it practically and thinking about what does this mean politically is one, because it feels like we're in an urgent, albeit incessant and circular cultural crisis.

00:21:19.000 And two, because it's probably easier to.

00:21:22.000 Try and solve all of the world's political problems than to deal with my own thoughts.

00:21:28.000 There's a lot of truth to that.

00:21:30.000 I think that's true for all of us that have enough lucidity to admit it.

00:21:35.000 True.

00:21:36.000 So when you interceded, I was saying that part of what Christ does is the absorption of all of our sin.

00:21:43.000 Part of the challenge is that Christ does suffer while doing that.

00:21:48.000 And many saints, not many, I got this especially from Thomas Merton.

00:21:55.000 Sacrifice need not include suffering.

00:21:57.000 Sacrifice is the portal to the dimension in which Christ dwells.

00:22:02.000 And it needn't include suffering.

00:22:04.000 The suffering is like the residual attachment.

00:22:07.000 That's the burning of your attachment.

00:22:09.000 Martyrdom, I suppose, is the willingness to even give up your life to be, you know, like Paul says, like they all say, like Stephen says as he's dying, oh man, I can see it and this is amazing.

00:22:18.000 Like Paul, I don't even want to be here no more.

00:22:21.000 I feel like that.

00:22:23.000 About 20% of the time when I'm awake.

00:22:25.000 20% of the time I'm awake.

00:22:27.000 It's not often good.

00:22:29.000 Like it's normally a selfish suicidal impulse rather than a transcendent, oh, I'm in God's glory.

00:22:37.000 But I know that the two things are related.

00:22:39.000 I can see you've got stuff, Michael.

00:22:40.000 I'll stop.

00:22:42.000 Well, I mean, you're, as I recall, 36 months old in Christ, right?

00:22:50.000 Yeah, 2023.

00:22:50.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:53.000 Oh, yeah.

00:22:53.000 Yeah, okay.

00:22:54.000 24, 24.

00:22:56.000 Yeah, and Bear Girls and the Timbs and all of that was like, you know, three years ago, right?

00:23:03.000 Or something like two, three years ago.

00:23:05.000 Okay.

00:23:05.000 All right.

00:23:06.000 So I'm not saying don't expect too much of yourself, but I will say what you can expect is infinitely more insight, infinitely more strength.

00:23:16.000 As you behold him, you grow from glory to glory to glory.

00:23:19.000 2 Corinthians 3 18.

00:23:21.000 By looking at him, instead of looking at ourselves, instead of looking in the mirror dimly, We want to look through the mirror and see him.

00:23:28.000 And if we do that, then he changes us.

00:23:31.000 It says, then we're transfigured, is the word, transformed by the Lord who is the Spirit.

00:23:36.000 It's passive, it's not an attainment, it's not an accomplishment, lest any man boast.

00:23:41.000 Kingdom principle number one.

00:23:43.000 So as we behold him, that two years turns into four, turns into six, and if we're willing to keep letting go of this present age, then on the inside, the Spirit of God begins to overtake more and more.

00:23:55.000 The Peter who wrote 1 and 2 Peter is not the Peter that said, Cockledoodle doo, I don't know him.

00:24:01.000 That wasn't that much later. 0.50

00:24:03.000 It was a process of him looking at Jesus, letting the Spirit of God change him, and a knucklehead fisherman, unlearned and ignorant, Turned into a man of God to change the world alongside of his brothers, of course.

00:24:18.000 But yeah, so it's a process, it's not something you attain, it's something you release by its nature, atemporal and aspatial.

00:24:30.000 So, could happen instantaneously.

00:24:36.000 I don't think he lets that happen instantaneously for a reason in some areas, you know. 0.98

00:24:42.000 Some of the things, like I was smoking weed in the Fraternity house back alley with a bunch of guys regularly, and we're passing the hoochie. 0.63

00:24:54.000 And then I gave my life to Jesus, and I'm out there with them just as always. 0.97

00:25:01.000 And they passed it to me.

00:25:04.000 I passed it on.

00:25:05.000 I didn't need it anymore.

00:25:06.000 I used F bombs every third word, every sentence for years of my life.

00:25:13.000 Had hair down to here.

00:25:15.000 Yours is in better shape than mine was, but mine was about that long.

00:25:21.000 But I have not used another curse word except one time.

00:25:25.000 And in that case, it was strategic.

00:25:27.000 And how do you break a habit like that in an instant when it's just part of every sentence?

00:25:33.000 So there are things that can happen instantaneously, and other things I have suffered immensely to let go of and I've failed is this sine wave.

00:25:41.000 But that sine wave is on a positive slope.

00:25:46.000 And it feels just as bad at the bottom of that sine.

00:25:50.000 But it's nowhere compared to what I used to be, if I'm just being honest about it.

00:25:55.000 So it hurts just as bad.

00:25:57.000 So I think from one degree of glory to another, he transfigures us, and that's a good process. 0.95

00:26:03.000 Take up your cross.

00:26:04.000 Paul said, I die daily.

00:26:06.000 Paul said, Who amongst you is tempted that I don't inwardly burn?

00:26:10.000 You know, I asked God three times to take away this thorn in the flesh.

00:26:14.000 He said, My grace is sufficient.

00:26:15.000 What does that mean?

00:26:16.000 It's like, I forgive you, and I want you to feel what other people feel.

00:26:20.000 So that you can communicate.

00:26:23.000 When you're converted, Peter, strengthen your brothers.

00:26:26.000 Like, well, why is he saying that?

00:26:28.000 That's what some of the last words he said to Peter, right?

00:26:31.000 When you're converted, Peter, strengthen your brothers.

00:26:33.000 Satan wants to sift you as weed, he wants to kill you, but there's more in this for you if you'll learn the hard way than if you decide you're just going to be some superhero and put on your cape and your tight panties and you're going to just impress everybody.

00:26:50.000 No. 0.97

00:26:51.000 People need to see that we learn obedience by the things that we suffer.

00:26:55.000 It was even said of Jesus that way.

00:26:58.000 So, you know, it's a process, but it's a designed process to go from created a little lower to the angels to judging angels.

00:27:06.000 Those are both in the New Testament.

00:27:08.000 But to judge something you can't see with your eye that can wring out a whole continent with its bare hands and to sit in judgment over that, that's a pretty spectacular place that God is bringing us to.

00:27:22.000 But he does it through the cross.

00:27:24.000 Not through a magic act.

00:27:27.000 It's not a Vegas bunny rabbit out of a hat thing, usually.

00:27:32.000 Some things, yes, just as a testimony.

00:27:34.000 Other things, we've got to look him right in the eye and say, I want that.

00:27:39.000 I want that.

00:27:40.000 But I know that's not you.

00:27:41.000 So I know the path to Zoe, life that always was and always will be, not heaven.

00:27:47.000 That's only some small part of it.

00:27:49.000 That's the kingdom of heaven.

00:27:50.000 That's the part I was saying.

00:27:51.000 Yeah, part of it is the cleansing.

00:27:54.000 That's the good news of Jesus Christ, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the washing, the forgiveness of sins.

00:27:59.000 That's amazing.

00:28:00.000 But that's the doorway.

00:28:01.000 In my Father's house, there are many rooms, there are many mansions.

00:28:05.000 And I'm inviting you there.

00:28:06.000 I've prepared this place for you to explore all the Father has in His dimension, in His realm.

00:28:12.000 I have this for you.

00:28:14.000 Come, come with me.

00:28:15.000 It's not just about heaven.

00:28:17.000 It's about the invitation to experience me epigonosco, like Adam knew Eve, right?

00:28:25.000 That kind of knowing, right?

00:28:27.000 That's the intimacy he wants us to have.

00:28:29.000 As the Father and I have that intimacy, I want you to have that intimacy with one another.

00:28:35.000 Call that community if you want, call that ecclesia church if you want.

00:28:38.000 But all that is called church is not church.

00:28:42.000 And that's an important point because the kingdom, the good news of the kingdom is mentioned.

00:28:47.000 Three or four times as often as the good news of Jesus Christ.

00:28:50.000 What does that mean?

00:28:51.000 The good news of the kingdom. 0.98

00:28:53.000 That has to do with the relationships between the king and between the dumbs. 0.97

00:28:59.000 Right? 0.94

00:28:59.000 So we've got to have that life together, and it's not hanging out and sharing possessions, it's emptying ourselves so that we share his spirit, and then he takes care of all the other little details of the infrastructure and the homes and the Grecian widows. 0.94

00:29:17.000 Acts 6, and so on.

00:29:19.000 But it's an experience of God that makes us like that.

00:29:22.000 It's not copying his actions or obeying his commands, but I'll cause you to keep my commands and decrees.

00:29:28.000 That's the prophecy in the Old Testament.

00:29:30.000 I'll cause you, I'll soften your heart, and you'll see what I see and you'll feel what I feel, and then you'll live it.

00:29:36.000 Not because it's some religious thing on the outside.

00:29:39.000 That's the square strawberry.

00:29:45.000 Even well intentioned, it's a square strawberry.

00:29:47.000 It can't last.

00:29:48.000 It's not the real thing.

00:29:49.000 It's the wrong dimension.

00:29:51.000 A couple of occasions I've felt, specifically felt, I see them how he sees them.

00:30:01.000 I felt it.

00:30:02.000 I felt it in motion and in transit.

00:30:07.000 And yes, I suppose that what that illuminates for me, which is in part something that you set up with the.

00:30:21.000 Idea earlier in our conversation of two dimensions versus three dimensions.

00:30:28.000 How could two dimensions conceive of a third?

00:30:31.000 How can three conceive of a fourth?

00:30:34.000 It's a paradigm shift.

00:30:36.000 We don't have the alphabet, the vocabulary, the lexicon.

00:30:40.000 Yes.

00:30:41.000 Spot on, brother.

00:30:42.000 Spot on.

00:30:43.000 So, and so when I'm, yes, looking specifically.

00:30:51.000 So, I guess partly then, what we're saying is that he is coming to us, and that the discernible, sensory, material, measurable reality is, whilst it's an expression of the total, how could it not be an expression of the total and an expression of the source of the Father?

00:31:16.000 It is a small portion.

00:31:20.000 It is a small portion.

00:31:22.000 Of the whole, and I evidence this with we can't make judgments based on what is observable, i.e., we live by faith, not by sight.

00:31:36.000 Meaning that, were we to, and this is my inclination, I don't know quite why, it's somewhat Ephesians oriented, even though Ephesians 6 12 specifically, I mean, even though that does deliberately.

00:31:54.000 Point us towards heavenly realms.

00:31:58.000 It does say that it's.

00:32:01.000 I guess up until now, I was thinking the reason for the disorder here on earth is because our systems and institutions are occupied by the diabolical.

00:32:12.000 The contemporary church is happy to point out moral and ethical failings in the individual, but not so willing to point out cultural and social issues that.

00:32:26.000 Indicate the deep insidious nature of evil that it's within the insta, and the reason it doesn't do that, of course, is because those institutions have themselves been captured by the very phenomena that they are failing to point out.

00:32:40.000 Yes, yes.

00:32:43.000 However, I guess talking about the Ephesians 6 12, and I'll read it because sometimes, like, you know, I can't assume that everyone knows everything.

00:32:50.000 I know that you do, not everything, but you know what I'm talking about now.

00:32:53.000 Um, but like, I don't want to assume that the audience necessarily forgot more than I ever knew.

00:32:59.000 That's my slogan.

00:33:01.000 Yeah, I know.

00:33:02.000 Sometimes I read stuff I've written before and I think, oh my God, I was brilliant.

00:33:05.000 Where did I get that?

00:33:07.000 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

00:33:21.000 However, it is followed, of course, famously by instruction, and it is preceded by the idea of struggle.

00:33:29.000 So we are in an active process.

00:33:32.000 Now, I wonder if that struggle is distinct from Jacob's wrestling with Yahweh.

00:33:39.000 I wonder. 0.59

00:33:40.000 And I wonder if the instruction to arm ourselves and to stand firm.

00:33:47.000 Well, I guess, you know, of course, this is a very, like the context is this is written to a particular people in a particular church at a particular time.

00:33:53.000 And for it to have, for it to warrant being canonical, it must have universal value.

00:34:04.000 But nevertheless, My point was, I see that as, oh, this isn't telling me why the world is the way it is.

00:34:11.000 The world is the way it is because dark, heavenly, spiritual powers are steering and controlling earthly institutions.

00:34:20.000 Another part of the New Testament that's sort of part of my person.

00:34:27.000 You know, then, of course, how you are read by the Bible as you read it.

00:34:36.000 And scripture that has particular pertinence to the individual is likely part of your ladder out.

00:34:42.000 It's part of your ladder out of a whole of self.

00:34:45.000 So, Luke 10 18, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

00:34:52.000 I've, the reason that.

00:34:54.000 He danced.

00:34:56.000 I mean, he danced when he said that. 1.00

00:34:58.000 I mean, look up the Greek.

00:35:00.000 I mean, there's a little jig associated with that. 0.90

00:35:03.000 I saw heaven fall.

00:35:04.000 I saw Satan fall, you know, like lightning.

00:35:07.000 You know, welcome back, guys.

00:35:08.000 You did it.

00:35:09.000 You're on the right track now.

00:35:11.000 So, yeah, love that.

00:35:13.000 Well, I took it as a critique of their hubris on returning in celebration that they'd cast out demons and evil spirits, and that our Lord tells them that the reason these deeds are undertaken is because their names are written in the heavenly book, not because of any personal power that they might feel inclined towards.

00:35:35.000 So, it seems to me then that the primary battle is taking place here within me, within you, within us.

00:35:45.000 But I wonder then, this is what I wonder, Michael.

00:35:54.000 Is like, see your book, The System or Ecosystem.

00:35:58.000 I don't know quite why I've added this to it.

00:36:01.000 I feel like what you're trying to say is that we should try to live in communities that are representative of these principles.

00:36:11.000 And you can't live in communities that are representative of these principles unless you, as an individual, are doing your best to live by these principles.

00:36:20.000 Is that not what you intended?

00:36:22.000 Are you saying that the individual is this system?

00:36:27.000 Yes, and yes, and no, and no.

00:36:29.000 All right.

00:36:31.000 The church in Ephesus, you referred to a moment ago, Ephesians 6, right?

00:36:36.000 Follow that trail, a little bunny trail, and you see in Revelation chapter 2, Jesus is reflecting on what happened in the next 30 years.

00:36:46.000 He said, Sorry, you lost your first love, and I'm going to take away your lampstand.

00:36:51.000 If you go back a page, you'll see that a lampstand is the right to be called a church.

00:36:56.000 You don't get to call yourself a church because you meet on Sunday and put a steeple up and hire a master of ceremonies and a CEO.

00:37:03.000 That's not what a church is.

00:37:05.000 A church is a lampstand that Jesus circulates amongst, it has the oil of God and the fire of God.

00:37:11.000 And so in Revelation chapter 2 and 3, he talks about the fact that the church in Ephesus was about to lose their lampstand.

00:37:21.000 This is just 30 years after.

00:37:24.000 Paul and Timothy, and you know, Ephesians 6 was written, and so on.

00:37:29.000 And he said, No, if you lose your first love, there's not much left here.

00:37:33.000 You don't get to keep attending and calling it a church.

00:37:36.000 It has to be a union with me and with one another in order to be, in my eyes, called a church, saith the Lord.

00:37:44.000 And then, in chapter 3 of Revelation, of course, those little numbers only showed up 1700 years later, but they're good, though.

00:37:54.000 They're all right, them numbers.

00:37:57.000 I don't mind numbers.

00:37:58.000 I love numbers.

00:37:58.000 3.14159265358979323846264327950288419.

00:38:06.000 I love numbers.

00:38:08.000 Pi to 108 places.

00:38:10.000 Nice. 0.98

00:38:11.000 Yeah, but in chapter 3, if there be such a thing, it says, Because you're lukewarm, a little hot, a little cold, I vomit you out of my mouth.

00:38:21.000 All right, so that just pretty well knocks out just about everything that's ever called itself a church in the Western Hemisphere in the last several hundred years.

00:38:29.000 He's vomiting, but you're okay anyway.

00:38:31.000 That's not true.

00:38:33.000 So it's the good news of Jesus Christ and the good news of the kingdom, which means are you living it together in the Spirit, or do you just claim, oh, I'm saved, I'm saved.

00:38:44.000 I said a prayer that was invented in 1922, the sinner's prayer.

00:38:48.000 I said a prayer, so I'm okay. 0.91

00:38:50.000 And I attend on Easter and Christmas and a few other times, or maybe I throw in a Wednesday night.

00:38:55.000 I give all of 1.8% of my life to Jesus, and then I pray a little prayer.

00:39:01.000 You know, bedtime prayer, if I can remember, before I fall asleep with the beer in my hand.

00:39:05.000 And, you know, a lot of this stuff is not going to experience God.

00:39:09.000 I'm not being critical.

00:39:10.000 I'm just saying we've left so much on the table.

00:39:14.000 We've been lied to about what Christianity is.

00:39:17.000 Christ means anointed, anointed entity, right?

00:39:21.000 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

00:39:24.000 That was a decade after Pentecost.

00:39:27.000 There were no Christians on planet Earth for 10 years after Pentecost. 0.86

00:39:31.000 Why is that?

00:39:32.000 It's because disciple and Christian are the same thing, not a special elite class like the special forces.

00:39:38.000 You know, the disciples are dedicated, and the rest of us just attend.

00:39:42.000 Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:39:44.000 Where did I hear that from?

00:39:46.000 That was taxation without representation, right?

00:39:50.000 And the real thing that God came to bring to planet Earth was an experience of Him, not a belief system that acknowledges Him correctly, and then Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of competing my doctrine versus yours.

00:40:05.000 The reason why Simon the zealot and Matthew the tax collector didn't strangle each other on day one.

00:40:12.000 They hated each other before they met Jesus.

00:40:16.000 Their doctrines didn't change in a minute.

00:40:18.000 What changed was they realized they had more to do on the inside by far than what they were trying to do on the outside.

00:40:24.000 And when you're acknowledging the things on the inside, which I know you're doing, I've heard you say it many times, including in Santa Rosa.

00:40:34.000 When you deal with the things on the inside, you're opening up so many things to the Godhead, to the experience and the fellowship of God.

00:40:42.000 To have to keep that first love rather than get distracted, and it just opens up an entire universe that's the z axis, the zoe life, not life when I go to heaven, but life that always was and always will be unconstrained by time or matter.

00:40:59.000 That's what zoe means, right?

00:41:01.000 That's what I begin to feed into my soul rivers of living water, not a dead lake, but rivers of alive water gushing from the inner man, tasting the powers of peace that transcends understanding.

00:41:14.000 I can't explain it, joy inexpressible.

00:41:16.000 I can't even talk about it.

00:41:17.000 But this is what God came to bring us.

00:41:20.000 And it's not attendance.

00:41:21.000 It's not a rule book.

00:41:23.000 Yes.

00:41:24.000 Yes.

00:41:25.000 So, the way, as they called it prior to the semantic evolutions that you've described.

00:41:33.000 Yeah, that was a cult.

00:41:34.000 That was their way of saying a cult.

00:41:37.000 That was their way of saying a cult.

00:41:40.000 Yeah, sect and way.

00:41:41.000 Yeah, they loved a label, right? 0.50

00:41:44.000 And so, when you start stepping outside of this present age, And you don't accept anymore the idea that when you die, your soul goes to a garage in Buffalo, like most of the world religions do.

00:41:56.000 When you really try to experience God, you say, oh, you're just a mystic.

00:41:59.000 No, no, no.

00:42:00.000 This is what Jesus came, He experienced it.

00:42:02.000 I don't do anything I don't see the Father doing.

00:42:05.000 I don't say anything I don't hear the Father saying, and greater works than these shall you do.

00:42:09.000 You will have the same experience, John 17, that I and the Father had.

00:42:13.000 You'll have it with one another.

00:42:15.000 Call that community if you want, but you can have a fake community, right?

00:42:19.000 But if you're sharing that oneness of heart, mind, soul, strength, you know, joined and knit together by every supporting ligament, the hand can't say to the eye, I have no need of you.

00:42:29.000 That kind of loyalty that transcends brains and fear and, you know, reputation.

00:42:37.000 If you can empty your heart, did not our hearts burn within us as we walked along the way?

00:42:42.000 You know, that was their measuring rod of who is this guy?

00:42:46.000 Oh, he changed my DNA while we were talking.

00:42:50.000 Oh, that's it. 0.81

00:42:51.000 Oh, well, I don't know if I believe that because I checked that out in the Hebrew lexicon.

00:42:56.000 And, like, man, you guys are missing the story with a capital S that Jesus came to the planet to bring us.

00:43:03.000 So, you know, community, yes, but it's a community that is built around a commonness of spirit and life and love that is undefined by time and place.

00:43:17.000 It can be a counter.

00:43:18.000 And every personality in the universe, you know, the nose rings and the tattoos, the bald businessman with an $8,000 briefcase, the whatever, who cares?

00:43:30.000 Are you experiencing Jesus?

00:43:31.000 Not do you believe the right things, but are you experiencing Jesus and is he experiencing you?

00:43:37.000 And that's where community just makes itself happen.

00:43:41.000 You can get a lot of metaphors from relativistic physics and the atomic sublevels.

00:43:48.000 There's a lot of things with the Bose Einstein condensate, and there are a lot of things that are very, very enlightening in the world of the unraveled physics of the universe that most people don't even think about.

00:44:03.000 Yes.

00:44:04.000 In fact, my next set of questions, Michael, are about.

00:44:09.000 About parable language and apologetics, that every age requires a kind of an apologetics that is relevant.

00:44:18.000 That's you, obviously, as something that you're interested in because it seems that not explicitly your book is addressed in part.

00:44:28.000 Hello, Peggy.

00:44:28.000 Have you done your story?

00:44:30.000 Okay, that's very good.

00:44:31.000 That's very good.

00:44:32.000 Hello, Peggy.

00:44:33.000 Peggy's back.

00:44:34.000 She can't hear you because I've got these earpieces in.

00:44:39.000 And this, let me just.

00:44:41.000 My only request.

00:44:42.000 Do not edit this part out.

00:44:44.000 I love this.

00:44:47.000 This is what it's all about, right here.

00:44:51.000 What do you want?

00:44:51.000 What?

00:44:53.000 Wait a second.

00:44:53.000 I need to pause and read this.

00:44:55.000 It looks pretty good.

00:44:56.000 I would like it.

00:44:57.000 Have you been doing that all this time?

00:44:59.000 You're a good girl.

00:44:59.000 Did you write about what happened on the way here?

00:45:03.000 Yes.

00:45:03.000 Go on then.

00:45:05.000 What?

00:45:06.000 Did you?

00:45:06.000 With the guys in the car and everything?

00:45:08.000 You've written about that?

00:45:09.000 You can write about that.

00:45:10.000 Tell the truth.

00:45:10.000 Tell me what you thought about that.

00:45:11.000 And if you were scared, if you've got.

00:45:12.000 But let me ask Michael one more question.

00:45:15.000 All right, you can sit there if you want to.

00:45:16.000 You can do what you want.

00:45:20.000 Now, the image of the fountain, the inner fountain, the stream in the desert, it's interesting, isn't it?

00:45:32.000 Because we've got, in a sense, to pay attention to the history of scripture, i.e., this is a particular set of hermeneutics that comes out of Israel, Judah, 2,000 years ago, and in the preceding 1500 or 2,000 years.

00:45:48.000 Like, we've got to pay attention to that.

00:45:50.000 What are these documents recording?

00:45:54.000 Why do these documents appear to have rhymes and geometry and image systems in them that do have a concordance with the physics that you started to outline just now?

00:46:10.000 And why do ideas like the wave and the particle of light and the third mysterious participatory component of?

00:46:19.000 Consciousness between the wave and the particle.

00:46:22.000 Why is this triune relationship many times iterated?

00:46:33.000 When you talked about the road, where is it that they encounter him in Luke after he's like the risen man that they don't recognize?

00:46:41.000 Emmaus.

00:46:43.000 The road to Emmaus.

00:46:44.000 I've wondered often, Michael, why they don't recognize him.

00:46:48.000 Like in many of those encounters, they don't recognize him.

00:46:53.000 In his risen form.

00:46:55.000 And also, I struggle with the tension between the kind of not apologetics, but that kind of Christian discourse that's about, see, he is real.

00:47:06.000 This kind of proves it.

00:47:07.000 And what the resurrection could have been is a sort of an atomic explosion.

00:47:11.000 You know, sooner or later, we're going to arrive at the precipice of what's comprehendable.

00:47:16.000 And that's in a way where we have to live always.

00:47:19.000 That seems to be part of the point of faith, is even though I can see this and measure this and experience this and Fear that and desire the other, where I'm going to live is in this difficult to determine invisible realm.

00:47:34.000 When I was reading Romans and read Romans at the moment, and when it says his invisible qualities were evident from the beginning, his eternal power and his divine nature, that's been on my mind a lot.

00:47:48.000 Now, what I am sort of wrestling with right now is a whole bunch of things.

00:47:53.000 Let me put it together.

00:47:55.000 One, You know, we're supposed to be doing something, not nothing.

00:48:00.000 We're supposed to be in relationship with Him.

00:48:02.000 We're supposed to be making disciples.

00:48:04.000 We're not supposed to be collapsing the vivacious way, the aliveness of the flow of living water into the kind of noun of names and institution.

00:48:15.000 We're meant to keep it alive and keep it going.

00:48:18.000 We don't allow it to become lukewarm, suggest that it's losing its fatality and its vibration.

00:48:25.000 All those V words, via.

00:48:28.000 Vortex, Virgin, Vibration, all those dental labial fricatives need to stay high in the mix.

00:48:40.000 And what I suppose I'm saying is it's so obvious to me that we are trapped in a political moment that's been echoing for a while.

00:48:51.000 I recognize what Emmet Fox said when he claims that empires inevitably collapse.

00:48:59.000 And tumble into dust, saving one human soul is a higher currency, a higher frequency, more value than all of the achievements of Rome or Egypt.

00:49:14.000 But what I suppose I'm like returning to is if we are like, you know, you're, I know you're really cool, you know, I know you're not like on the front foot trying to do anything like, oh, if I do, you know, I know you're not oriented, it doesn't seem to me that you are, by like earthly pursuits or worldliness at all.

00:49:32.000 But we have got something to do here, almost by ontological definition.

00:49:39.000 I see that it's personal, and I see that you would be putting the cart before the horse if you were to focus primarily on the establishment of communities prior to you yourself being able to reliably maintain yourself in Christ.

00:49:54.000 But he did send them out pretty early on.

00:49:57.000 He's like, right, go, get on with it.

00:49:58.000 You're baptized.

00:49:59.000 Let's go.

00:50:00.000 So I feel that we're meant to be active.

00:50:03.000 The problem, the challenge I have with sometimes what I Feel that you're saying, though, like I've received it elsewhere as well, is that it could become very monastic.

00:50:13.000 It could become very quiet.

00:50:14.000 It could become, all right, well, I'll just go and sit in a cave then and meditate and do that thing where I get weird images and visions and the sub molecular honeycomb cross that's attached to the cosmic dashboard.

00:50:27.000 That if I reach within it, I would be able to move mountains and pull continents and walk on water and maneuver the physical realm.

00:50:35.000 But That doesn't seem like I'm supposed to be speaking.

00:50:40.000 I feel it.

00:50:40.000 I'm supposed to be speaking.

00:50:42.000 And we're supposed to be living in Him together.

00:50:45.000 We're supposed to be on the horizontal axis of the cross, the divine nature, as well as the vertical axis, the eternal.

00:50:52.000 And this, whatever this third, this unknowable, ineffable, super ethereal, uber substantial Z axis or Z axis in your accent.

00:51:03.000 I do believe we're supposed to be doing something.

00:51:07.000 I do believe we are.

00:51:08.000 I know we fight from victory.

00:51:10.000 I know Satan has already lost.

00:51:12.000 I know he is behind us.

00:51:15.000 Obviously, you will have detected that our content now is primarily focused on building communities and changing the world, getting out of the circular and circuitous news, the endless. sadness and despair and hopelessness of various despots and various failings of this system.

00:51:32.000 So we're trying to bring you guests that have insight into setting up new ways of thinking and living, both when it comes to your inner systems, spiritually, and outer systems, politically.

00:51:44.000 Remember though, protest, activism and reporting on important events remain valuable.

00:51:52.000 Here's Joe McCann at the recent Unite the Kingdom marches in the UK.

00:51:58.000 Have a look at this.

00:52:02.000 Well, here we are.

00:52:03.000 We made it to the front, to the epicentre.

00:52:05.000 This is the start of the march.

00:52:05.000 Here it is.

00:52:07.000 Let's get amongst it and see what we can see.

00:52:08.000 What YouTube channel did you see?

00:52:09.000 Russell Brands.

00:52:10.000 How are you doing, young Bob?

00:52:12.000 Not doing too bad.

00:52:13.000 Nice weather.

00:52:13.000 I thought it'd be raining.

00:52:14.000 So, of course, it's nice to see that we.

00:52:16.000 I already got sunburned.

00:52:17.000 I was campaigning in Great Yarmouth the other week, so I think I'll go for a second round.

00:52:21.000 What was your campaign for?

00:52:22.000 So, we were campaigning for Restore Britain last week.

00:52:25.000 Of course, Rupert Lowe, I mean, Tommy Robertson described him as the sort of Trump figure in here in the UK.

00:52:31.000 I would say that British politics is a bit different.

00:52:33.000 He's a sort of almost local hero, just great at community politics.

00:52:38.000 He's made great Yarmouth from a conservative constituency and completely sung it to a restore stronghold.

00:52:44.000 So it's fantastic.

00:52:46.000 So, what do you feel like is the main objective of this march today?

00:52:50.000 Patriotism is just this idea that you want the best for your country.

00:52:54.000 Now, there are different people that will express that in different ways.

00:52:56.000 Of course, we're recently seeing the fraction on the right between ethno nationalism and civic nationalism.

00:53:01.000 My view is if you are well intentioned, if you want the best for your country, If you genuinely believe that your position is justified and rational, you should be here.

00:53:11.000 This is the movement for you.

00:53:12.000 United Kingdom is uniting people under the banner of our nation and Christ, as it says in the Magna Carta.

00:53:18.000 We are two kingdoms united under God, the heavenly kingdom and this kingdom here.

00:53:22.000 So it's about nationalism, patriotism, our religious roots, which is Christianity, of course.

00:53:27.000 I see you're wearing a Mary.

00:53:30.000 Are you Catholic?

00:53:31.000 I heard you quoting St. Thomas Aquinas earlier in your last interview.

00:53:35.000 No, so I'm Orthodox, but he was a Catholic.

00:53:37.000 Interviewing people on whether it was a Catholic doctrine to have a deportations policy, and I started him because I read the Lumen Gentum when I was, not Lumen Gentum, I read his works when I was quite young, just briefly.

00:53:50.000 I didn't read all of it. 0.83

00:53:51.000 If you've said you're a full Thomist and you've read all these works, you're just a LARPA.

00:53:55.000 Yeah, that takes some doing.

00:53:58.000 So, what do you think is the church's stance on immigration?

00:54:01.000 Especially, like, look, refugees, people fleeing from war torn countries.

00:54:05.000 Surely, like, the Christian wings do is to welcome people in.

00:54:08.000 I mean, obviously, there's got to be some sort of vetting process and whatnot.

00:54:11.000 If you're not properly betting people, if you have a bloated social service, your demographics are being slowly replaced by other people, then that just means you can't express love to other countries because your country's in a poor state.

00:54:23.000 It's like foreign aid.

00:54:24.000 I can't give countries aid when I'm poor.

00:54:27.000 Principle still applies with love, my friend.

00:54:29.000 I like that.

00:54:30.000 That's deep.

00:54:31.000 I'm going to take that with me today.

00:54:32.000 Nice one for talking to us, young Bob.

00:54:34.000 You're a gentleman.

00:54:35.000 Thank you very much.

00:54:35.000 God bless you.

00:54:36.000 I'm surprised Russell Brand is interviewing people.

00:54:39.000 Do you know him well then?

00:54:39.000 Yeah, he's my mate.

00:54:41.000 Obviously, he's not here.

00:54:42.000 He's in America.

00:54:42.000 So he's asked me to come and.

00:54:44.000 Do this with my power.

00:54:46.000 What do you think about Russell Brown running for Mayor of London 2028?

00:54:48.000 Do you think he'd do a good job in bringing people together?

00:54:51.000 I think the debates would be funny.

00:54:53.000 Most definitely.

00:54:54.000 Comedy's guaranteed.

00:54:56.000 Well, if the establishment stooge hasn't got to Russell yet.

00:54:59.000 Nah, he's foolproof, mate.

00:55:02.000 Well, he's foolproof in terms of his position, but whether he'll actually be able to save himself away from this establishment here is a completely different question.

00:55:11.000 Look, I love when celebrities and well known figures stand for the mayoral position.

00:55:17.000 Whether they're able to get the votes, that's completely different.

00:55:19.000 I mean, Lawrence Fox and Middleton want to throw his hat in the ring.

00:55:22.000 What's he got to do to get your vote?

00:55:24.000 Russell Graham, interview me.

00:55:26.000 Interview.

00:55:27.000 Oh, there you go.

00:55:28.000 We made that happen.

00:55:29.000 Yeah.

00:55:29.000 Let's make it happen.

00:55:31.000 I'll push the message around.

00:55:33.000 Thank you, Bob.

00:55:34.000 Young Bob.

00:55:35.000 Whosoever believes in him would never perish but have everlasting life.

00:55:41.000 And the Bible says, whoever calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved.

00:55:45.000 Let's do it now.

00:55:46.000 Let's do it now.

00:55:47.000 Jesus!

00:55:53.000 Save me!

00:55:54.000 Save me!

00:55:55.000 Excuse me, Father, do you want to speak to us?

00:55:58.000 We're from Russell Band's YouTube channel.

00:55:59.000 Absolutely, hello.

00:56:00.000 Thank God we're all here today for an opportunity to unite the kingdom, to lift up Jesus Christ.

00:56:06.000 I'm a minister, and that's the main reason I'm here, to share the good news.

00:56:11.000 And the good news is that the whole world can know Jesus Christ.

00:56:15.000 Because God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him would never perish but have everlasting life.

00:56:24.000 How beautiful is that?

00:56:25.000 That is beautiful.

00:56:27.000 Say to Russell, God bless you, Russell.

00:56:30.000 Yeah, there he is.

00:56:31.000 Yeah, we're thrilled that God is doing something in this nation that is a move of God.

00:56:38.000 It's sovereign.

00:56:39.000 You understand what sovereign means.

00:56:40.000 It's the sovereignty of Almighty God because God loves Great Britain and God loves the people of Great Britain.

00:56:46.000 And that's the reason we're here to bring the people the freedom that they deserve through Jesus Christ.

00:56:52.000 So God bless you all.

00:56:53.000 God bless.

00:56:54.000 Thank you, Father.

00:56:54.000 Lovely to see all these flags.

00:56:56.000 What do you think about the comments in the media, especially the likes of Keir Starmer?

00:56:59.000 I'm quite surprised he's said.

00:57:01.000 That really.

00:57:02.000 It's quite offensive actually to sort of make us out like we're a bunch of hooligans.

00:57:05.000 You know, there's every demographic in, you know, even Muslims here, you know, there's no hostility towards anyone.

00:57:12.000 It's just that this is Great Britain and it's being hollowed out from the inside.

00:57:16.000 Strange thing is, the more he's pushing back against it, the more people feel the resistance against that to come forward and come out and increase the numbers in the march.

00:57:25.000 So he's having a good effect on the march.

00:57:27.000 Please, speak us through your attire.

00:57:30.000 What, you mean my lovely t shirt?

00:57:32.000 Yeah.

00:57:33.000 Yeah, stuck farmer.

00:57:34.000 Stuck farmer. 0.99

00:57:35.000 Nasty man, Mr. Prime Minister, who isn't really a Prime Minister. 1.00

00:57:40.000 He's not in charge of the country. 1.00

00:57:42.000 He's just sitting there because he likes power.

00:57:45.000 I'm not a thug. 0.99

00:57:47.000 I'm a retired lady.

00:57:48.000 Tell us about the.

00:57:50.000 What's your remit of works for the day?

00:57:53.000 Keep the control, I suppose.

00:57:54.000 Keep the control. 0.98

00:57:56.000 I mean, it's a decent sign and it's quite fucking sturdy on the old scaffold pole. 1.00

00:58:00.000 You'd be a fool to disobey that stop sign, I tell you. 1.00

00:58:03.000 What are you doing? 1.00

00:58:03.000 Where are you from? 1.00

00:58:04.000 We're from Lancaster.

00:58:05.000 Lancaster.

00:58:05.000 Lancaster, man.

00:58:06.000 What brings you out today?

00:58:08.000 We just want to make a stand, show our support for everyone, and just basically we've had enough with how the country's being run.

00:58:15.000 It's time for you to go, Mr. Keir Starmer.

00:58:17.000 It's time for you to go, sir.

00:58:18.000 I'm Pete Prosser from South Wales.

00:58:20.000 We've come to join the people.

00:58:21.000 This march represents the people of Britain who love Britain, who want to see Britain flourishing and doing well.

00:58:28.000 And you know what?

00:58:28.000 There's many Christian people here today.

00:58:31.000 There's a friend of mine just there, he was arrested two weeks ago.

00:58:34.000 Just for telling people about the love of God on the street.

00:58:38.000 And we have to end that.

00:58:39.000 But we have a Prime Minister currently who's desperate to do things like that and to stop people telling the truth and the love of God to other people.

00:58:47.000 So we're here to do exactly that.

00:58:49.000 You know, the message is pretty clear, it's pretty plain, and that's the truth of it.

00:58:54.000 And you know what, in amongst all of this here, there's many Christian people who love God, who are representing here to say God is for our country.

00:59:05.000 Jesus is the King of Kings.

00:59:06.000 We're not worried about a funny King, we're worried about the real one, you know, and it's about living our lives in the right way.

00:59:13.000 What do you think about Keir Starmer's comments that this is causing more division?

00:59:17.000 He says it's right wing hate.

00:59:18.000 We've got a man there who's got two injunctions so that we can't know what he's done.

00:59:24.000 We've got a man who's currently got people in court for firebombing his house in a bit of a dodgy way.

00:59:29.000 I don't think he's somebody who can speak.

00:59:32.000 Right?

00:59:32.000 Let's have a look at his life and then let's look at the people he's been hanging out with and say, hmm, I think we've got a few questions.

00:59:38.000 You know what?

00:59:39.000 The people here in this country care passionately.

00:59:41.000 The people here care that passionately that they're here today taking all their own money into this, their own time.

00:59:48.000 And this is to bless our country, to make our country better.

00:59:51.000 What do you think?

00:59:52.000 Russell Brown's running for Mayor of London 2028.

00:59:54.000 Do you think he's the man to bring people together, bring peace?

00:59:57.000 You know what?

00:59:57.000 If he made it right, that would be wonderful.

01:00:00.000 Oh, he'll make it.

01:00:01.000 You know what?

01:00:01.000 When he got baptised, come on, that's the way forward.

01:00:04.000 Have you been baptised?

01:00:05.000 I'm indeed.

01:00:06.000 I was there at his baptism.

01:00:07.000 Here we go. 0.96

01:00:07.000 That's the Amorinthians. 0.96

01:00:08.000 I was in the river. 1.00

01:00:09.000 Perfect, you know.

01:00:11.000 And it's that when you turn your life to Christ and you start to follow Christ, you can start to do things that change the world, change the country.

01:00:20.000 He's doing that, right?

01:00:22.000 We can do that too.

01:00:23.000 That's what these people are saying.

01:00:25.000 That's why we're here.

01:00:26.000 That's why they're here.

01:00:27.000 You know, we're all here doing this.

01:00:29.000 Amen.

01:00:29.000 So you're here today supporting your dad?

01:00:32.000 We're here to share the good news.

01:00:33.000 What's your journey to Christ been like?

01:00:35.000 Were you baptized as a baby?

01:00:37.000 Were you new to the faith, a convert?

01:00:38.000 How's that gone for you?

01:00:39.000 So, I was raised in a Christian household, but God saved my life in 2025.

01:00:43.000 I was really going through some rough stuff for me personally, and God really got me out of that situation, completely saved my life.

01:00:51.000 So, I thought that if God saved my life, then at least I should go and live it for Him.

01:00:57.000 That's why I'm here today doing this sort of thing.

01:01:00.000 Beautiful message.

01:01:01.000 Keep doing the good work.

01:01:04.000 Okay, well, that's all we've got time for.

01:01:05.000 Remember, if you don't have my book, get it.

01:01:07.000 Here's Michael's book.

01:01:08.000 There's QR codes for both of them.

01:01:09.000 And if you want my audiobook for nothing, you can get it for nothing.

01:01:12.000 You're going to enjoy my episode with Rick S.

01:01:15.000 A brilliant conversation about the 12 steps and spirituality.

01:01:18.000 I hope you notice that these guests are talking about a different approach to your spiritual awakening in Christ.

01:01:23.000 I'm learning so much.

01:01:24.000 I hope you're enjoying it too.

01:01:25.000 Let me know in the comments and chat if you want different guests.

01:01:28.000 Okay, until next time, I'll see you soon.

01:01:30.000 Not with more of the same, but more of the different.

01:01:33.000 Until then, if you can, stay free.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - June 01, 2026

They hijacked Christianity... - SF724

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript