Stay Free - Russel Brand - Tim Pool (Is The System Destabilising?)

00:00:00.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:00:01.000 Thank you for joining me for a very special show.

00:00:04.000 Wherever you're watching this, the full show is only available on Rumble.

00:00:07.000 As you know, on Stay Free with Russell Brand, once a week, on a Friday, I do a special in-depth conversation with free thinkers, radicals, academics, shamans, wanderers, great geniuses in the field.

00:00:19.000 And today, it's Tim Pool.

00:00:21.000 If you don't know who Tim Pool is, he is a magnificent journalist, and some would say, I suppose, Tim, thank you very much for joining us on the show.

00:00:29.000 philosopher and YouTuber who's on the precipice of creating his own media

00:00:34.000 empire. Tim Castle's grown so big that he currently has a billboard on Times Square.

00:00:40.000 Stay free with Russell Brand. See it first on Rumble. Tim, thank you very much

00:00:45.000 for joining us on the show. Thanks for having me. Tim, I know you're really

00:00:50.000 really busy now because you're running an incredible organization.

00:00:54.000 What have you already done today?

00:00:56.000 Oh, it's early for me.

00:00:58.000 I just recorded one morning segment.

00:01:00.000 That's about it.

00:01:01.000 Talked about simulation and conspiracies.

00:01:03.000 Do you mind doing stuff like this or do you sometimes feel a little bit beleaguered?

00:01:08.000 You mean like doing these kind of interview shows?

00:01:09.000 Yeah, doing other people's stuff.

00:01:11.000 Yeah, I would say beleaguered is probably the right word.

00:01:14.000 I get requests frequently, and it's just hard to do, I suppose.

00:01:20.000 I mean, maybe back a few years ago when my channels are growing, I'm excited.

00:01:25.000 You know, everyone's hitting me up, they want to talk to me, and I'm like, these are opportunities.

00:01:28.000 Now it's my schedule's so full, it's like, oh man, who wants to, oh geez, Russell Brand?

00:01:33.000 Oh, definitely for Russell.

00:01:34.000 You know, so I'm here.

00:01:35.000 Thank you for doing it because like one of the things I'm always struck by is your capacity to consume and disseminate information to hold complex narratives together to try to contain counter arguments while you're making an argument to imagine the kind of critiques that are going to be leveled at you and you have some pretty Unique threats to deal with as well due to, I suppose, the success of your organisation, the popularity of your voice and the attempts to shut down newly emergent independent voices like yours, although yours is, of course, fairly unique.

00:02:10.000 When I spoke to Martin Goury, the CIA analyst and writer of The Revolt of the Public, he said that there's been a fundamental shift in the discourse because centralised power can no longer control the narrative in the way that it once did through managed institutions through censorship that was easier to exert.

00:02:29.000 How do you find, Andy indeed said that the terms of left and right are becoming

00:02:34.000 in a sense defunct and more diffuse because it's now easier to view power in

00:02:41.000 terms of centralized power versus peripheral power. Where do you find yourself

00:02:46.000 as an independent journalist who reports continually on stories that in a

00:02:51.000 sense require a trans-political coalition if ever there were to be a

00:02:55.000 movement to change them and how do you manage that space and good luck Tim it

00:03:00.000 was a big question I know that was a lot there yeah I mean sometimes I go back

00:03:05.000 and forth do the establishment authorities powers have control over the

00:03:10.000 narrative still or Or is it a sinking ship?

00:03:12.000 And I kind of feel like maybe it's a sinking ship.

00:03:15.000 But as we've seen with the Twitter files, as we've seen with Facebook, YouTube and their censorship, they're still able to manipulate the system.

00:03:21.000 So maybe Back in the with the emergence of the internet and the expansion of its popularity in the late 2000s with social media into the 2010s, they had lost control.

00:03:32.000 You end up with a President Donald Trump.

00:03:34.000 But I do feel like over the past few years they've been continually centralizing control to reestablish narrative control.

00:03:40.000 And that being said, I wonder if still it is just a sinking ship and they're desperately grasping at straws.

00:03:47.000 So I'm not I'm not entirely sure It's hard to know.

00:03:50.000 I mean, we're on the outside, or at least I am.

00:03:53.000 But I think for the space that I'm in, you can look at it one of two ways, especially as you mentioned, left and right seemingly don't mean anything anymore.

00:04:00.000 There are many people on the right that are, you know, diehard Trump supporters or nationalist ultra-MAGA who say that, you know, I'm a milquetoast fence-sitter, a do-nothing, who doesn't do enough to actually get people active.

00:04:13.000 Then you have more moderate individuals and maybe more conservative individuals saying, well, you know, I watched him and then it, I sort of opened the door for me to look into other things.

00:04:21.000 And then you have the left, which just argues that I'm far right or whatever, but in the space that I'm at.

00:04:27.000 You know, I said this earlier, I recorded a segment earlier, and I said, I try not to be someone who knows things.

00:04:32.000 I'm doing air quotes when I say that.

00:04:34.000 What I mean is, I don't want to come out and just say outright, hey, I saw this video on the internet, therefore I know for sure when internet video can be faked, especially now with deep fakes and all this AI stuff.

00:04:45.000 So when we see these stories about, you know, there's an interesting story pertaining to the Ohio train wreck, that the CDC just updated its toxicological reports on vinyl chloride one month before the spill, and, you know, obviously people then jumped to the conclusion, you know, it must have been staged, it must have been planned, why would they A month ago, update this report for the first time in 17 years, and then three weeks later, you get a train explosion, vinyl chloride getting burned off.

00:05:16.000 And, uh, you know, maybe.

00:05:18.000 I'm not gonna tell you I know for sure there's a conspiracy.

00:05:20.000 That's kind of my point.

00:05:21.000 I think there's a lot of people in corporate press and independent media who will just outright say, therefore, it is true.

00:05:29.000 I try to avoid that, and because of that, you know, the joke is that I'm a milquetoast fence-sitter.

00:05:33.000 Yeah, which I would see, in fact, instead as retaining credibility and journalistic integrity, because one of the continually levelled accusations at people that operate within these spaces is that they are conspiratorial.

00:05:50.000 is that they are reactive, refluxive, visceral.

00:05:55.000 I suppose because many of the people that have succeeded in this space, perhaps early on, have been defined by an evangelical component.

00:06:03.000 Perhaps the first wave was defined by Alex Jones, whose imprint looms large as an alternative voice, who in his kind of, I would say, in his caroming evangelism allowed himself now demonstrably and legally to enter into territories that were complex.

00:06:23.000 So I feel like having, because it's one of the questions I sort of ask of myself, on one level I like the reporting to be incendiary.

00:06:32.000 I like it to be emotional.

00:06:34.000 One of the things about the conventional liberal establishment that I don't enjoy or the traditional left is the kind of piety, earnestness, A lack of emotion and connection.

00:06:45.000 So I do enjoy investing the stories with emotion, but I feel that there is an absolute necessity for journalistic diligence.

00:06:53.000 And it's certainly not a claim that I'm making personally, because I work in an entirely different way than you do.

00:06:58.000 I know that you're much more responsible for the creation of your content.

00:07:01.000 I'm lucky to work with some great people in developing the content.

00:07:05.000 But do you feel often that it would be easier if you took a deliberate stand?

00:07:11.000 Or do you think inquiry and a general anti-establishment position is strong enough?

00:07:16.000 And does your journalistic integrity require that you stay within certain lines?

00:07:21.000 I think I can't assert things that I don't know or believe.

00:07:26.000 And I know there's a lot of people who do.

00:07:28.000 I know that you can see the fall of some once great independent media establishments.

00:07:33.000 I'm not going to name any, but they used to be considered truth tellers.

00:07:36.000 But then over time, they realized where the money is and how to make money.

00:07:40.000 And I said this back.

00:07:42.000 In 2011, during Occupy Wall Street, when I'm getting a bunch of attention, I get all these activists saying, oh, Tim's a real journalist.

00:07:48.000 He's telling the truth.

00:07:50.000 And, you know, not like the corporate press and all that stuff.

00:07:52.000 And I said, it's only a matter of time before you will turn on me and say the exact same thing in the inverse, that I'm a corporate shill or that I'm a liar or that I'm a spy or something like that.

00:08:02.000 Because when the narrative supports their political agenda or tribal ideology, then you're a truth teller.

00:08:08.000 But when the narrative doesn't, then you're a shill. 0.66

00:08:10.000 And sure enough, that happened.

00:08:11.000 It happened with, you know, the 2016 election.

00:08:14.000 There was a shift happening.

00:08:17.000 I'm posting on Twitter.

00:08:18.000 I'm saying the same thing.

00:08:19.000 I'm like, look, I'm not going to sit here and just condemn a guy I don't know.

00:08:22.000 Hey, Trump didn't really say that.

00:08:23.000 Hey, you're lying about that.

00:08:25.000 And then all of a sudden, the narrative changes to these activists who once said I was the real journalist saying, wow, Tim Pool sold out and now he's shilling for Donald Trump.

00:08:34.000 And I'm just like, well, no, it's not that.

00:08:35.000 It's that Donald Trump literally did not praise white supremacists.

00:08:39.000 That never happened.

00:08:40.000 But Joe Biden launches his campaign on it, you know, 2020 or 2019 or whatever, and they believe it's true.

00:08:45.000 Therefore, I must be a liar.

00:08:47.000 And I think we'll... I often say this.

00:08:50.000 To all the people who now support me, it's going to be the exact same thing.

00:08:53.000 And I think, to varying degrees, I experience that all the time, where if I come out and say, hey, this thing that you desperately want to believe is true, there's no fact to support it, boy, do they get mad.

00:09:03.000 And then there's like an ebb and flow.

00:09:05.000 But I imagine the end result of this is just going to be The hyper-tribalized individuals will just hate me no matter what, and that's basically what happened, what's happening. 1.00

00:09:15.000 And then there will be middle-of-the-road people who are looking for, I don't know, a more moderate assessment who will keep following me.

00:09:23.000 During the 2020 election cycle, I mean, the amount of views that I was getting were absolutely insane.

00:09:28.000 We were getting about 120 million hits per month across my channels.

00:09:33.000 Then, of course, Donald Trump loses the election.

00:09:35.000 This fraud narrative emerges that there were watermarked ballots, that China was sending fake ballots, that the Dominion voting systems, etc, etc.

00:09:42.000 And I said, guys, there's no evidence for that. 0.90

00:09:43.000 I mean, this is ridiculous.

00:09:45.000 We can talk about the lawsuits.

00:09:46.000 We can talk about Texas v. I think it was Pennsylvania and the procedural changes that affected the 2020 election.

00:09:52.000 And then all of a sudden, all of the diehard Trump supporters said I was a shill and I was a liar and I wouldn't tell the truth.

00:09:57.000 And then, of course, view counts dropped from that.

00:09:59.000 But I'm not going to come out and entertain ideas without fact or basis just because it makes money or panders to a tribe.

00:10:06.000 And thus, I think the end result is maybe in 10 years, there's no Timcast Media Empire or whatever people are calling it.

00:10:12.000 It's just a small podcast in the mid-range space where people who are interested in hearing a general assessment without a tribal, you know.

00:10:21.000 Point of view, although I do think there is a decent tribal point of view in that I'm anti-establishment, I'm pro-free speech, and if you are those things, then they just call you right-wing.

00:10:30.000 But, I don't know, I think I'll capture middle-of-the-road people who are interested in hearing a general assessment, but as tensions escalate, I think the demand and the thirst is going to be for hard tribal passion, whether it's true or not.

00:10:47.000 I'm seeing that all right now.

00:10:48.000 And I gotta admit, it is quite demoralizing to see people fervently believe lies who you previously thought were looking for the truth, but they don't care about the truth.

00:11:01.000 And I don't think any human is immune to this.

00:11:04.000 You know, you hear something that maybe conflicts with your worldview, and then you just have to latch onto it.

00:11:10.000 I think that's everybody.

00:11:11.000 I think it's everybody.

00:11:12.000 When you said the thing about the Trumpers, let's call them, dropping off after you didn't toe the line with the election fraud story to the degree that they would emotionally want to, it's an interesting education in how this new space operates and what this new space affords.

00:11:31.000 Clearly, economically, there is the possibility of creating and garnering kind of closed-loop media audiences that will remain devout as long as you continue to feed them the stories that they enjoy and as you say it's clear that those kind of organizations are emerging and I must say I sometimes I feel the presence of that pull even when it comes to thumbnails title in you recognize there are certain narratives that are evocative and provocative and

00:11:59.000 I guess the sort of line I feel myself walking is, how do we harness this necessary, authentic, and legitimate anti-establishment sentiment without falling into what I believe are the traps of some of the less savory tropes that tend to be alloyed with some movements in that space?

00:12:18.000 Let me tell you the sad reality of this and all human interaction.

00:12:23.000 And I'll give you an unrelated topic as an example.

00:12:27.000 I remember reading about the Red Pill forums.

00:12:29.000 These are dating advice, you know, platforms and there's pickup artists. 0.87

00:12:34.000 And the pickup artists would teach men how to attract women and they would quantify the behaviors that were more, you know, alluring to women. 0.98

00:12:42.000 And people got mad.

00:12:43.000 And many feminists, many liberals said, that's disgusting, it's manipulative. 1.00

00:12:47.000 And my response to this was, it's a fascinating idea.

00:12:50.000 Those who naturally do these things, men who naturally behave in this way, without realizing it, are good and attractive. 0.76

00:12:58.000 Men who try to behave that way and learn how to do it are manipulative, evil, gross, and creepy.

00:13:04.000 That means that the the people who naturally do these things will succeed

00:13:08.000 without any kind of moral qualm, and those who seek to understand it are the bad guys, which

00:13:13.000 means when it comes to the news space, the people who unintentionally or ignorantly are creating

00:13:19.000 shock content because they genuinely believe that, say, you know, politician X is a lizard, they

00:13:24.000 end up getting millions of views and massive growth because they naturally do the evocative

00:13:29.000 thing. 0.60

00:13:30.000 And the people who then try to assess what they're doing to figure out how to attract new viewers are manipulative liars and creepy for doing so. 0.91

00:13:38.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:13:39.000 Those who are making the evocative content, if they're wrong, they're wrong.

00:13:41.000 If they're lying, they're lying.

00:13:43.000 But I think there are many people who genuinely believe they're telling the truth that are

00:13:46.000 going to get millions of views, make millions of dollars, and that's just, what are you

00:13:51.000 going to say?

00:13:52.000 They're just wrong.

00:13:53.000 They're not liars.

00:13:54.000 So it's not considered a manipulation. 0.97

00:13:55.000 It's considered someone just being ignorant. 0.96

00:13:57.000 You can call them that.

00:13:58.000 So as for you, as for me, I mean, there was a period a few years ago where I found myself

00:14:03.000 titling one of my videos something about, you know, the left going insane.

00:14:08.000 And I genuinely believed it.

00:14:10.000 You know, it was a story about something pertaining to failed economic policy and social issues.

00:14:15.000 I can't remember the exact story.

00:14:17.000 It was probably three or four years ago at this point.

00:14:19.000 And I'm genuinely thinking to myself, in shock, I can't believe they're trying to implement these policies.

00:14:24.000 This is absolute psychosis.

00:14:25.000 There's no basis for this. 0.94

00:14:27.000 And so I titled it something like, you know, Democrats have truly gone insane. 0.70

00:14:31.000 Here's why. 0.96

00:14:32.000 And then right before I published it, I thought to myself, is that too much to say they're insane? 0.78

00:14:37.000 And I'm like, well, I do think they've lost their minds. 0.98

00:14:39.000 I mean, with the anti-free speech, with child sex change operations, I think they're going crazy.

00:14:45.000 And then I thought about, well, if I do use this headline, I'm going to get a million views.

00:14:50.000 And then I'm thinking, I don't know what to do.

00:14:51.000 I don't know what's right.

00:14:52.000 Do I at this point stop and say, maybe my view of this is too far and too evocative and would make things worse?

00:15:00.000 But I really do think they're losing their minds.

00:15:02.000 So I decided to roll with it and just go with what I thought.

00:15:05.000 Of course, the video ended up getting 500,000 views in a day or something like that.

00:15:09.000 And then, you know, eventually, as time goes on, I'm starting to think more and more to myself that I don't know the path out of this budding culture war, and it does feel like the left and the right, though they may not mean anything easily understandable, it does signify which tribe you exist in and which one you don't exist in.

00:15:30.000 So you can claim you're not a conservative or right-wing, but if they deem you are, then you're certainly not with them.

00:15:35.000 Now I'm at the point where it's kind of like, I don't know if this is sustainable.

00:15:40.000 Because the degree to which people are hyping up and ramping up and making their content more and more shocking, it's at the point where you have to say the most psychotic and insane thing imaginable.

00:15:53.000 So just two weeks ago, For the first time, I think, ever, I decided not to do a segment at 4 p.m.

00:16:00.000 on my channel, youtube.com slash timcast, which I'm now effectively retiring and going to be using for my website.

00:16:07.000 And the reason for this is Joe Biden had classified documents in his house.

00:16:11.000 We talked about it for two weeks.

00:16:13.000 Every day, the media adds more to the story.

00:16:15.000 Every day, the pundits who hate Joe Biden talk about how it's worse than we realize, it's worse than we realized, it's worse, it's worse, it's worse.

00:16:21.000 And then I get to the point where it's a Friday and I'm reading the news, and once again, people are saying, oh, you know that thing about the classified documents we all talked about ad nauseum for two weeks?

00:16:29.000 It's even worse!

00:16:30.000 And I said, no, stop.

00:16:31.000 No, it isn't.

00:16:32.000 We know what the story is.

00:16:33.000 And so you know what?

00:16:34.000 If this is the principal narrative of the day, if this is the big shocking news revelation, I'm not doing it.

00:16:40.000 And so I said, I'm just not, I'm going to talk about something else.

00:16:43.000 And then I like made commentary about a woman in a gym, you know, because she wasn't getting help from guys or whatever.

00:16:48.000 And I'm just, I'm just not going to, I'm not interested.

00:16:50.000 You know, and I feel like, for me, it's kind of breaking down to where I don't know what the path forward is.

00:16:57.000 I really don't.

00:16:58.000 Because we cannot exist in a space where every day things have to be worse than they were yesterday in order to attract viewership, but people aren't interested in hearing that, they're not interested in hearing stories that don't shock them, scare them, or evoke some kind of emotion.

00:17:12.000 And that means there may come a time where The news of the day is actually quite mundane, but people are demanding that you latch on to something.

00:17:21.000 So what we're seeing now, what I've experienced, which is, I don't know if demoralizing is the right word, maybe enlightening is the right word, is that in the absence of shock, people will invent shock.

00:17:32.000 And we're seeing stories that make no sense, which I don't want to cite because it would just create psychotic controversy.

00:17:40.000 Stories that make no sense and have no public merit all of a sudden are generating millions of views and it seems like this is destabilization.

00:17:49.000 I look at the demoralization Yuri Bezmenov talks about and the next phase being destabilization.

00:17:54.000 And I'm wondering if we're at that point where people have no strong morals anymore.

00:17:58.000 The only thing that's driving the media ecosystem is to be as shocking as possible.

00:18:02.000 And then when there's literally nothing at the top, people invent things to be shocked by.

00:18:07.000 And then the system destabilizes.

00:18:09.000 So that's what I'm kind of feeling right now.

00:18:10.000 We'll see where that leads to, but I guess I can only say for me, I'm over it.

00:18:15.000 If I'm not seeing the news, if I'm not going to make something that just says it is more shocking, it is crazier, just because that's what people want to hear.

00:18:24.000 And that may mean the people who intentionally do it and the people who inadvertently do it will get more views, make more money, grow bigger channels, and that will be the perspective that people will live by because It's how you drive traffic.

00:18:38.000 My sense is that without being able to ever appreciate how algorithms operate, particularly ones that are apparently altered, that from a human perspective, there will be an ongoing appetite for the tombra of authenticity.

00:18:56.000 Clearly, as you've worked in this space for a long time in various guises, you've learned to discern different types of stories and narratives to the point, in fact, of observing templates that can be mapped onto stories, trends that appear to take place as new stories are released, their life cycles, the discourse and dialectic that grows up around them, the inadvertent or unconscious oppositionism.

00:19:26.000 One of the things I've appreciated while working in this space for less time than you has been when I have encounters with journalists like Chris Hedges or the other day Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who recently wrote about the Nord Stream pipeline and how it obviously was an American special forces allegedly I'll say there.

00:19:46.000 And indeed, obviously, Glenn Greenwald, because I still have an appetite not to become the thing that you're describing, sort of a hysterical siren adding to the overstimulation, the sort of intensely Sugared hysteria of our new space because I suppose when I hear you talk to him, one thing I hope emerges is the potential for new alliances between people that would have previously have been presumed to have been in opposition.

00:20:19.000 As in this broadcast space, I tend towards people who have had at least a dalliance with or a cultural relationship with the left, i.e.

00:20:26.000 yourself or Jimmy Dore, over people that are avowedly traditionally and evidently conservative, even though sometimes you do find that those people on a personal level are much easier to get along with, much sort of sweeter, you know, like when you sort of talk to someone like Tucker Carlson, he's just Absolutely lovely.

00:20:46.000 It's extraordinary.

00:20:49.000 One of the things on my journey that has changed is how I regard the left.

00:20:54.000 While you were heavily involved in Occupy, I went there.

00:20:58.000 I was still an actor at that point and I was in a movie and I went down and visited that space and I was fascinated by it and what it might represent and what it might mean and how it actually did represent the emergence of new communicative abilities and the potential for a new populist movement.

00:21:12.000 Obviously, you know more than most people about how that ended up.

00:21:15.000 How it became diffuse and where it fell apart, perhaps.

00:21:19.000 Today we were talking about an old story where there's an attempt in academia to make the word freedom become a right-wing trope, that freedom is a racist or Bigoted word and we did a presentation on how really that is an attempt to keep people divided.

00:21:40.000 That's an attempt to calcify existing interests.

00:21:43.000 We also did a story about how lobbying, there are literal lobbying groups now overtly using diversity as an opportunity to bring together groups like Walmart, Pfizer, the usual suspects under a banner of diversity with absolutely nothing about diversity taking place.

00:21:59.000 So it feels to me that one of the greatest failings or contributors to the current climate that you've been describing in your answers has been that there is no political movement now that represents ordinary people.

00:22:12.000 I don't think the Libertarian Right or the Tea Party Right and I don't even really think any aspect of the Democrat Party is interested actually in the nuts and bolts, blood and guts of what's going to improve the conditions for ordinary Americans.

00:22:24.000 So perhaps all of the invective and incendiary rhetoric that we've been discussing Becomes the only emotional, the only place that catharsis can take place.

00:22:32.000 Even in the example of the Trump fans migrating after you couldn't service their feelings of injustice.

00:22:38.000 Because surely their feelings of injustice are legitimate, if not some of the targets of their rhetoric, in my opinion, as a somewhat old school liberal person, in some regards, you know, the presumed arguments about immigration and all that sort of stuff.

00:22:50.000 So I wonder, do you tend to lay the blame at the door more of the Liberal establishment than anyone else for this new emergent space?

00:23:01.000 I have no idea, to be completely honest.

00:23:03.000 I mean, there was a period, obviously, where we look at the corporate press, we look at the institutions, and we accuse them of being power-hungry.

00:23:11.000 But I wonder now, with how things are going, if this, in fact, was just... I think in the past few years, this conversation has come up with institutional capture, or the Great March to the institutions, in that over the past several decades, Marxist-Leninist ideas made their way into our institutions

00:23:28.000 over the span of a few decades, took control, and are now pushing out these ideas to

00:23:33.000 younger people, which results in destabilizing forces, confusion, and it's demoralization.

00:23:40.000 So I think most people are probably familiar with Yuri Bezmenov, former KGB.

00:23:45.000 He gave an interview in, I believe, 1984, where he said that this process has begun in the United States.

00:23:51.000 And I think he was saying that in the U.S., it's already too late, that the institutions through the baby boomers had been corrupted with this ideology, which would demoralize a nation. 0.86

00:24:03.000 And this or more than that, I mean Western culture and demoralize as in not morale, but in morals.

00:24:10.000 So people have no cohesive moral structure anymore.

00:24:13.000 And I think you can see this as you mentioned.

00:24:15.000 There's no movement that really represents anybody.

00:24:17.000 And I think that's because no one has a shared moral perspective anymore.

00:24:21.000 There are arguments being made by postmodernists that morals are subjective and don't exist as it is, and while that's technically true, without shared morals, then you have a bunch of competing groups with no shared goals fighting with each other, ultimately leading to total destabilization.

00:24:38.000 I think that's where we're at now.

00:24:39.000 You know, a lot of people are suggesting that what we're seeing with the balloons over the skies, the UFOs being shot down, there's a fuel line disruption from California to Nevada.

00:24:48.000 We've got chickens being culled, egg shortages.

00:24:50.000 We have the train derailment in Ohio and the toxic chemical spill affecting the water base for five million people.

00:24:57.000 People are shooting up power substations across the United States.

00:25:01.000 Man, maybe it just feels like we've completely destabilized, or this is the beginning.

00:25:06.000 I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but I don't know what's going on with you guys over in the UK, but in the US, it sounds like crazy stuff is happening.

00:25:12.000 Maybe it just sounds like it.

00:25:14.000 These things happen normally, but nobody ever talks about them, or without the internet, we don't hear about them.

00:25:20.000 Or maybe, as Yuri Bezmenov described, we are now entering into the next phase of destroying a country, which is the destabilization period.

00:25:29.000 Whilst it could sound hysterical and somewhat culturally narcissistic to assume that this is some kind of end time,

00:25:38.000 it perhaps would also be naive to not acknowledge that we don't live in a limitlessly sustainable

00:25:46.000 cultural space and that our culture doesn't appear to be adapting well to new phenomena, such as our ability

00:25:54.000 to communicate.

00:25:55.000 It makes me wonder.

00:25:58.000 He says, mind-gooey, that numerous publics can now form around numerous topics almost instantly.

00:26:07.000 Counter-narratives can immediately appear.

00:26:09.000 In 2001, there was as much published information due to the advances in online technology

00:26:14.000 as there were in all of published history.

00:26:18.000 And the year after that, there was as much information published again.

00:26:23.000 And now there is just so much information, there's a kind of an impossibility

00:26:26.000 for the maintenance of centralized entities and institutions, let alone the incumbent moralities that

00:26:33.000 would have to underwrite and legitimize those institutions.

00:26:37.000 So there is a tension and perhaps we're feeling the sort of the Playing out of that tension in the events that you just listed, it suggests to me that what's required is either a process of decentralization that's reflective of the realities that we're now experiencing, i.e.

00:26:57.000 the potential for community organisation to happen more locally and more democratically.

00:27:03.000 But what is happening at the moment, it seems, is the opposite of that.

00:27:06.000 An attempt to double down on centralised power and to create the conditions that legitimise authoritarianism, whether that's the necessity to censor and control the public discourse because of, you know, all sorts of thought crimes and language crimes, the need to lock people in their homes because of successive, presumed successive, pandemics, the requirement to monitor people's medical situation and

00:27:32.000 movements, either because of immigration but again more likely because of germs. What it feels to me

00:27:38.000 is that as power requires now more tools to enact its power and to get it to work.

00:27:43.000 to continue with its, you know, telos, its trajectory, we have to create the conditions

00:27:48.000 in which that power is legitimate. And it seems that really what is required is a negotiation,

00:27:54.000 which, and I don't think there is an easy outcome.

00:27:56.000 Certainly, I think decentralizing power, devolving power would come with a great deal of

00:28:01.000 complexity, but I'm sort of wondering what the alternative is.

00:28:04.000 Yeah, I wonder, you know, you bring up good points about this, this, what seems to be

00:28:10.000 a hyper-authoritarian rise, pandemic lockdowns lasting years, you know, forced vaccination,

00:28:16.000 things like that.

00:28:17.000 And I have to wonder if the fragmentation of our cultures in the West, because it's not just, you know, every country has something similar happening.

00:28:25.000 The US, obviously, we have our culture war. 0.88

00:28:27.000 I wonder if the reaction from the machine is to try and wrap itself around this fragmenting You know, multicultural system and try and gain control of it. 1.00

00:28:38.000 But in doing so, it's just actually adding to the destabilization.

00:28:42.000 You know, obviously, well, I'll put it this way.

00:28:45.000 When the pandemic first started here in the US, a lot of people were saying this will finally unite the fractured cultures.

00:28:49.000 People are going to come together on a common enemy.

00:28:51.000 It certainly didn't.

00:28:53.000 The opposite.

00:28:54.000 It fragmented even worse.

00:28:57.000 So now, when we see the rise of these authoritarian measures, when we see, you know, in the U.S., for instance, we had several Democrat governors, like Cuomo and Wolf and Newsom, putting COVID patients in nursing homes and actually killing people.

00:29:10.000 Or I should say, at the very least, if you want to be light on it, exposing vulnerable individuals to the virus directly for no reason, resulting in their death.

00:29:19.000 These efforts just result in further destabilization.

00:29:22.000 Or another example is the 2020 election.

00:29:25.000 In the United States, you had what I would only say is illegal and unconstitutional action being taken by several states to alter the voting system.

00:29:35.000 Pennsylvania is the easiest example, where their constitution actually says absentee ballots, meaning voting by mail, can only be done under certain circumstances, but they ignored the constitution, passed a law anyway, and this is Republicans and Democrats together, and that had a significant impact on the outcome of the election in Pennsylvania.

00:29:53.000 That effort, I suppose, to help Joe Biden win results in no one trusting elections at this point.

00:30:01.000 And then it results in people outright refusing to participate in elections.

00:30:05.000 And then you end up now with the narrative being, How did Democrats do so well in the midterm when, by every metric, they should have failed?

00:30:14.000 And it's for two reasons.

00:30:15.000 One, many Republicans don't care anymore, and they're not going to participate in a system they think is illegitimate.

00:30:20.000 And then you have universal mail-in voting expanded despite the fact the pandemic's over.

00:30:24.000 They've retained these broken systems.

00:30:27.000 And now it's no longer about whether or not someone wants a politician for their policies.

00:30:31.000 It's a question of, can you get the vote?

00:30:34.000 Can you go knock on someone's door and say, fill it out?

00:30:36.000 And if that's the case, the only thing anyone's competing for at this point is an arbitrary number that looks bigger than yours.

00:30:43.000 With that, the system is just further destabilizing.

00:30:46.000 So maybe they're trying to get a hold of the system.

00:30:49.000 Maybe.

00:30:50.000 They thought Donald Trump was breaking it apart and Joe Biden must be the man to save everybody.

00:30:54.000 Sure, but it's like a Chinese finger trap. 1.00

00:30:56.000 The harder they pull, the worse they actually make it.

00:30:58.000 I suppose there's no real obvious solution because if you don't pull, then you just keep your finger stuck in the trap.

00:31:05.000 Maybe the real solution would have been Donald Trump getting elected.

00:31:08.000 I don't know.

00:31:09.000 I don't see how they pull their way out of this.

00:31:12.000 And with the way things are going internationally, I wonder if we're actually just in either some kind of destabilization or it could be World War III.

00:31:21.000 That may be a bit hyperbolic to say.

00:31:23.000 Maybe it'll be a good headline to put on a YouTube clip or a Rumble clip.

00:31:26.000 But maybe what we're experiencing is information warfare meant to disrupt our efforts and our economy because there are competing international interests that are trying to gain control of either Taiwan or Ukraine.

00:31:38.000 And thus, the whole system may not come crashing down in nuclear hellfire, but in economic destabilization and ideological destabilization.

00:31:47.000 Certainly destabilisation has come up a lot in this conversation and I perhaps would track that to a loss of faith in institutions.

00:31:54.000 Perhaps that's a trend that's been taking place for longer than a century and is certainly 1.00

00:32:00.000 increasing exponentially now.

00:32:03.000 And you tag a lot of interesting geopolitical narratives there,

00:32:08.000 like dealing with the way that this Russia-Ukraine story has

00:32:12.000 played out, the way that it has similarly been a censored narrative, an inability

00:32:17.000 to acknowledge the complexity of the conditions that have led to this complex conflict, an unwillingness,

00:32:25.000 I think, to openly iterate the beneficiaries of the reconstruction of Ukraine,

00:32:32.000 the potential illegitimacy of some aspects of Zelensky's I'm just talking about like the Pandora Papers saying that he had some offshore investments and that Ukraine is a deeply corrupt country and that many of the oligarchs or one at least of the oligarchs he booted out was heavily, heavily connected to him.

00:32:52.000 And of course, obviously, Hunter Biden.

00:32:54.000 I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

00:32:55.000 I know that, mate.

00:32:57.000 I mean, I'm just saying that That with stories like that being presented to us so reductively, so simplistically, I think it increases this lack of faith in institutions.

00:33:09.000 It seems that there is still an audience, in the same way as perhaps there were for newspapers, that will remain with the news sources they formerly had.

00:33:17.000 And now with the advance of this, you know, tensions between the United States and China and the peculiarity of the bomb, the balloon and UFO stuff, It appears to me, and it sometimes feels to me, and I don't know if this is my own grandiosity, Tim, and there's a fair chance that it is because it has been in the past, that it isn't enough for us to report on this stuff, that you have a background in activism, that there appears to be a sort of a faith given to people in this space that has absented the old order institutional areas.

00:33:55.000 And do you ever feel that there is perhaps even an obligation to enter into more

00:34:03.000 active areas of the culture rather than report, arge, and analysis.

00:34:09.000 That's everything we've been doing at timcast.com. We started expanding.

00:34:15.000 I mean, obviously, I've got my show, Timcast IRL.

00:34:18.000 People sign up to become members so that they can watch our uncensored segments.

00:34:22.000 It's a fairly typical thing people do with podcasts and vodcasts.

00:34:26.000 And instead of investing that money in more commentators, libertarians, conservatives, whatever you want to call them, We invested in cultural shows, like we have one show called Pop Culture Crisis, which is just talking about movies, video games, actors, etc.

00:34:40.000 And that is the first foray in this reporting space, this communication space, into a cultural space.

00:34:47.000 We're also in the process of, we've purchased a building, we're setting up a coffee shop and hangout, because we need physical spaces where people can come together and hang out to build communities.

00:34:57.000 So I often say, you know, the investments we're making are not in You know, I'm not taking the money I make from all of this and just buying myself boats or something ridiculous.

00:35:06.000 I'm buying cultural endeavors, trying to push back on the cultural decay and bring people together in maybe some last attempt at saving some kind of, you know, communal family structure-based community with certain moral values or whatever, independence, freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, all of those things.

00:35:27.000 And I tell people, because I tell people to be active.

00:35:30.000 But what that means is, for one, obviously you gotta vote.

00:35:34.000 As much as you might think the system is busted, if you think they're cheating, make it hard for them to cheat.

00:35:40.000 Go out, take the time that you can, and vote.

00:35:42.000 If you get a mail-in ballot, you fill it out, you do it.

00:35:44.000 But more importantly, you need to eat healthy, you need to exercise.

00:35:48.000 I recommend, and you know, maybe people don't have to listen to me, I say get out of cities, Get a place, become as self-sustainable as possible, as possible.

00:35:57.000 So I told people, I've been telling people for years, get chickens.

00:36:00.000 And everybody, they laugh and they say, yeah, yeah, yeah, chickens are funny, silly little things.

00:36:04.000 But guess what?

00:36:05.000 Now we got a chicken and egg shortage in the US, and I'm getting hit up by people being like, I've not noticed because I get six fresh eggs every morning.

00:36:13.000 So my attitude is, if the system is decaying, if it is destabilizing, You can try and hold on to each side and pull them together as hard as you can.

00:36:22.000 And I would say, you know, try your best.

00:36:25.000 But it does seem like a single individual trying to hold the ropes as a boat is sinking to pull it.

00:36:30.000 It's not going to happen.

00:36:31.000 If everybody comes together, you can try and save it.

00:36:33.000 But the problem is, as this ship is sinking, you have a million people on one side and a million people on the other, and they are actively pulling in opposite directions.

00:36:41.000 In which case, I say the best thing you can do is Sharpen your blade, figuratively.

00:36:46.000 Strengthen yourself, strengthen your family.

00:36:48.000 Be prepared for what destabilization may mean.

00:36:51.000 And if that means food shortages, fuel shortages, then take that into account.

00:36:55.000 We've had power outages.

00:36:56.000 We now have, you know, I've told people for a long time, Get emergency food, get emergency water, not because you want to prep for the apocalypse, but because sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows.

00:37:07.000 And if it does and your road gets shut down, maybe it'll be good to have some water and food in your closet if you get trapped for a couple days.

00:37:13.000 But then, of course, for those who live in West Virginia and Ohio and Indiana, right now they're dealing with mass contamination of the groundwater by a whole bunch of crazy chemicals.

00:37:23.000 Now we're hearing that they're burning off vinyl chloride.

00:37:26.000 Hydrogen chloride is being produced, going up into the atmosphere and produces acid rain.

00:37:30.000 We're seeing photos of cars drenched in some kind of white residue that seemingly is stripping paint off to a certain degree on this car.

00:37:38.000 Now, I can't confirm that that's actually what happened to this car.

00:37:42.000 For all I know, it's just salt or something.

00:37:44.000 But at least that's what people are saying.

00:37:45.000 What we can say is that politicians in western West Virginia are concerned about the groundwater because the Ohio River Basin is presumably about to be contaminated by all of these chemicals from this train.

00:37:58.000 If you are someone who stored up a little bit of water and food, you may not be as concerned.

00:38:04.000 But now the scary thing is you got a woman in this area, all her chickens are dead.

00:38:08.000 So this is freaky stuff.

00:38:09.000 Maybe it's anomalous.

00:38:11.000 Maybe it washes away and in a few months we won't think twice about it.

00:38:15.000 Or maybe things are as bad as many people claim they are.

00:38:18.000 Maybe Joe Biden is as bad of a president as many people think he is, and I certainly think so.

00:38:23.000 In which case, the smartest thing you can do is, sure, be active politically, be active culturally, but you better make sure you have the tools to survive if the machine isn't there to save you.

00:38:33.000 Because I'll tell you this, man.

00:38:35.000 I was in New York when Hurricane Sandy hit, and it was a crazy sight when the power was out for I don't know how many days or whatever.

00:38:42.000 I went to a bodega, and they had two guys standing out front holding two-by-fours or some kind of, you know, wood for bludgeoning people, and there was a line, and they were allowing one person at a time, and I walked in, and he said, all the perishables are expired.

00:38:56.000 You can't eat them.

00:38:57.000 Sorry.

00:38:57.000 Anything that's not perishable, you can buy cash only.

00:39:01.000 And it's a crazy thing to experience that the system in even a place like New York broke because of a storm.

00:39:07.000 If you think one storm is bad, wait till you see the expansion of You got law enforcement reporting extremists are shooting up power substations and shutting the power grid down.

00:39:19.000 And this has happened like 30 times in the past couple of months.

00:39:23.000 Imagine what it will be like in your area with millions of people and no electricity.

00:39:27.000 So I don't know.

00:39:27.000 I'm not saying the apocalypse is happening.

00:39:29.000 I don't know anything about that.

00:39:30.000 All I know is if you follow the rhetoric online, it's sounding freakier by the day.

00:39:34.000 And if you're not prepared for something freaky to happen, well, then you probably won't survive.

00:39:40.000 Yeah, it's extraordinary because no one wants to sound like a prepper but you want to be aware that we're held together by machines of increasing instability and that we have become for, you know, nearly a century spellbound by comfort now, latched to this system in a thousand different ways via screens and Easily accessible food and that we sometimes feel like a species who've forgotten who we are.

00:40:09.000 When you talked about sharpening your blade, I thought about how local that kind of chaos is.

00:40:17.000 Do you ever consider moving out of your country?

00:40:21.000 Do you ever consider building a community?

00:40:24.000 Do you ever think about where you might go?

00:40:26.000 Do you ever harbour those kind of ideas?

00:40:29.000 Oh yeah, yeah, but I'm entirely sure those are feasible or rational.

00:40:33.000 If there's one place I probably would go, it'd be El Salvador.

00:40:36.000 They've implemented a Bitcoin economy, crime is dropping, prosperity is through the roof, it's really improving.

00:40:43.000 And, you know, I've got some friends, Max Keiser and Stacey Herbert, very prominent Bitcoin personalities are down there and they're doing a lot of work.

00:40:50.000 And so that, you know, I'm not like the biggest crypto person, but it is really promising to hear what's going on down in El Salvador.

00:40:56.000 So when we look at the destabilization in this country, the escalation of political violence, the weaponization of a government against its ideological enemies.

00:41:07.000 Yeah.

00:41:08.000 You know, we've talked about maybe we just invest in some property down there.

00:41:11.000 So worst case scenario, we got somewhere to go.

00:41:14.000 Well, for the time being, where I'm at is I was in New York for five or so years.

00:41:20.000 And then it was a black nationalist executing two police officers and bombs being planted that made me decide to leave.

00:41:28.000 So I first moved to the Jersey side, thinking, OK, I'm away from the chaos, but still close enough to the city to do work.

00:41:33.000 That's when the bombs got planted, and it was in Jersey and in New York, and I said, OK, I don't think people really care.

00:41:38.000 The metro is the metro.

00:41:40.000 So I moved further south, and then I moved to South Jersey.

00:41:45.000 I moved to the southern area of the New York metro, closer to Staten Island, in a place called Bayonne.

00:41:50.000 Then I decided, OK, it's not enough.

00:41:51.000 Moved to southern Jersey.

00:41:54.000 I'm thinking, OK, now I'm in South Jersey.

00:41:57.000 Away from all the cities, but I'm close to Philadelphia.

00:41:59.000 Close enough.

00:42:00.000 But we're on the other side of the river, so we're probably fine.

00:42:02.000 Then the Summer of Love happened, and the rioters crossed the bridge into Jersey, and we could hear the sirens and the helicopters, and I said, okay, I don't want to be anywhere near this if this keeps escalating.

00:42:14.000 So now we're in West Virginia.

00:42:16.000 And, um, we're an hour and a half from the nearest major, uh, from, like, Washington, D.C.

00:42:22.000 We're close enough to some smaller metro areas.

00:42:24.000 We're a few hours away from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia still.

00:42:27.000 But we're in an area that is mountainous and fairly rural.

00:42:31.000 And when people come here to do the show, they're like, I'm driving through the forest and these long, winding roads, no idea where I'm at.

00:42:37.000 And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of the point.

00:42:39.000 We don't want to be near other crazy people when crazy things happen.

00:42:43.000 We want to have enough space to where we can sustain ourselves so that, one, I don't want to be a drag on the environment.

00:42:48.000 Hey, if you're a lefty, you should be thinking the same thing.

00:42:51.000 You're living in cities.

00:42:53.000 You're causing all this pollution.

00:42:54.000 You're using these vehicles.

00:42:55.000 You're using these plastics.

00:42:57.000 You're contributing to climate change.

00:42:59.000 Why don't you move out of the city?

00:43:00.000 Why don't you reduce your carbon footprint, get some animals, and be self-sufficient?

00:43:03.000 You're conservative?

00:43:04.000 Same problem.

00:43:05.000 You live in these cities, increasing destabilization, political violence.

00:43:08.000 The policies don't seem to make sense.

00:43:10.000 They're taxing to oblivion.

00:43:11.000 Why don't you move out of the city, get away from the chaos, become self-sufficient?

00:43:15.000 That's step one.

00:43:16.000 If in the event the U.S.

00:43:18.000 government does get weaponized to a more extreme degree, like with what we've already seen being bad enough, yeah, then maybe it's time to go to El Salvador or, you know, Costa Rica or something.

00:43:30.000 Yeah, next stop, El Salvador, appears to be the route.

00:43:34.000 Before we wrap up, Tim, I wanted to touch on a few of the moments where your show has burst beyond its already huge audience and into the broader consciousness.

00:43:48.000 Just a few words on each of.

00:43:50.000 The Kanye moment.

00:43:51.000 What was that like in the room?

00:43:53.000 I know that you sort of went through a lot of rigmarole to get him there and he sort of exploded out of the place.

00:43:58.000 What was that like now with a little time to reflect on it in the mythology of your world?

00:44:03.000 Yeah, I think it was staged.

00:44:04.000 I think they set us up.

00:44:07.000 When Yeh stormed out of the show, he went right to the municipal airport, 15 minutes away, with a private jet waiting for him.

00:44:16.000 Anybody who's flown in a private jet, which is a very, very small group of people, knows that the ability to book a private jet typically cannot be done in the span of a couple hours.

00:44:27.000 And you factor in a couple other things.

00:44:30.000 We know the jet that picked him up came from Where did it come from?

00:44:36.000 It came from New Jersey about 45 minutes away, flight time, and landed with a crew ready and available and fueled up for a five-hour flight to the West Coast.

00:44:48.000 What people need to understand about why I do not believe that was a legitimate, oh, I just happened to book a jet, is that the FAA has regulations on how many hours a crew can be active.

00:45:00.000 And if they're contacted before their wait period is up, it resets their wait period.

00:45:05.000 So sure enough, Yeah, he comes on the show.

00:45:10.000 Before the show starts, he is calm and rational, and we are discussing.

00:45:14.000 We're setting the cameras up.

00:45:16.000 We're testing the audio.

00:45:17.000 People are going to the bathroom, getting something to drink.

00:45:19.000 We're about 45 minutes out.

00:45:21.000 Completely calm.

00:45:22.000 He starts talking about how he thinks, you know, Jewish people control things. 0.94

00:45:26.000 And I said, yeah, but come on, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.

00:45:29.000 And he's calm and he goes, yeah, well, you know, Elon, he works for them anyway, right?

00:45:34.000 He looks up at our TV where we have this article.

00:45:36.000 Excuse me.

00:45:37.000 Accusing him of being anti-semitic, and he very calmly says, so what's this about Mike Pence?

00:45:41.000 You know, he betrays Trump or something, and then Nick Fuentes responds and explains the situation, and yeah, he's just like, yeah, okay, okay.

00:45:48.000 As soon as the cameras turn on, he goes from talking like, yeah, it's really interesting you'd bring that up, because I kind of thought this, and that's his demeanor.

00:45:56.000 Cameras turn on, and y'all, man, let me tell you something about this.

00:45:59.000 They call me, and I'm saying, And then I'm just like, whoa, what the just happened?

00:46:04.000 All of a sudden he's behaving totally differently.

00:46:07.000 Before the show started, I said, let's talk about what happened with this White House thing.

00:46:10.000 And he's like, yeah, of course, of course.

00:46:12.000 Then the camera turns on and he goes, yo, I want to talk to you about Jewish people.

00:46:16.000 And then when he asks me a question that I said, it's not they though, or whatever the question was, he just gets up and leaves.

00:46:24.000 He says on the show, I could book a PJ and get out of here or whatever.

00:46:27.000 Like he could book a private jet within a matter of an hour or so and have a jet at the Frederick airport in Maryland.

00:46:34.000 I think it was a plan, and I think either they were trying to get what they got with Alex Jones, where he said all that stuff about Hitler, from me, but I'm not gonna give it to him, and Alex Jones was more accommodating, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but, you know, he was more willing to let Ye say whatever he wanted.

00:46:51.000 And, uh, I think it was a setup.

00:46:53.000 I think the idea was, look, they know, as much as they would try to say, yay when Alex Jones says, no one knows who Tim Poole is, no one knows that show or whatever.

00:47:01.000 We are consistently the most viewed live show on YouTube for our time slot.

00:47:07.000 You know, we get 40 to 60,000 concurrent views, 8 p.m.

00:47:10.000 Monday through Friday.

00:47:11.000 They know that.

00:47:13.000 Milo tells them that.

00:47:14.000 I don't know if Milo is in on it or whatever.

00:47:15.000 He disavowed them.

00:47:16.000 He's not working with them.

00:47:17.000 But I personally believe the most likely scenario is They pre-booked a private jet to leave at that time.

00:47:26.000 They knew they were going to cause a scene and storm out because it would get them the front page of the news.

00:47:32.000 If Ye came on this show and just talked normally like he had talked to me, like we have a show we call The Green Room where we pre-record.

00:47:40.000 The guest arriving.

00:47:42.000 It's on TimCast.com, and you will see a calm and rational Kanye saying, I gotta figure out how to become president, though.

00:47:42.000 Watch that.

00:47:48.000 How do I do it?

00:47:49.000 And just very calm.

00:47:50.000 Then you watch him on the live show, totally different.

00:47:54.000 I think they knew that if they did the show as normal, nobody would care.

00:47:57.000 But if he got mad, said something offensive, and stormed off, he'd be on the front page of TMZ.

00:48:03.000 Lo and behold, he was instantly.

00:48:05.000 Then, you can see in the viral videos from the paparazzi, paparazzi were already at the airport, 15 minutes away, filming him as he boarded his private jet and left.

00:48:16.000 I called a private jet broker, and I said, for one, Did you give him the jet?

00:48:24.000 Did you give him a jet that was already available?

00:48:25.000 And they said, there wasn't one, no.

00:48:27.000 And I said, then how did he get this jet?

00:48:29.000 And they were like, I don't know.

00:48:31.000 And I said, is it possible to book a private jet and have it waiting for you within a couple hours?

00:48:38.000 And the broker started laughing and said, I've never seen it.

00:48:42.000 The only time I've ever seen anything like it is when some sports celebrity, they named him, I'm not gonna say their name, Needed to fly for an emergency meeting and it was like San Francisco to San Jose or something.

00:48:55.000 That was the only time I've ever seen it because it's a four, it's like a 10 minute jump.

00:48:59.000 But she was like, I have never seen someone claim successfully that they booked a private jet an hour out and it was already landed with a crew available, fueled up for a five hour flight and they took off, you know, within a few hours.

00:49:13.000 That being said, It is yay.

00:49:15.000 You know, he is arguably a billionaire or was a billionaire.

00:49:19.000 And she was like, maybe somebody canceled their flight he knew or he convinced someone to drop their flight and he took it instead.

00:49:26.000 But boy, does it sure sound like he won the lottery on that one if that was true.

00:49:29.000 So anyway, long story short, I think they staged it for press.

00:49:33.000 That's what it sounds like to me.

00:49:34.000 And it worked for him really, really well.

00:49:35.000 And I got to be honest, in the end, it sort of worked out for all of us.

00:49:39.000 I would have much preferred to have a real conversation about the news.

00:49:42.000 But the press I end up getting is even leftists were saying Tim Pool pushes back on anti-Semitism, Kanye West storms out, raises everybody's profile.

00:49:51.000 I wonder if the man is just a PR genius.

00:49:53.000 I mean, I know he is.

00:49:55.000 And that he planned this whole thing because all it did was made everybody get more attention in a way that worked their agendas.

00:50:02.000 Thank you.

00:50:03.000 Beautifully described and analysed.

00:50:04.000 With the Crowder Daily Wire story and your subsequent conversation with Stephen, what do you think this story tells us about this emergent space, the personalities within it and the power coalescing around independent media, obviously in this case in particular of the right?

00:50:25.000 How do you think this, what does this tell us about this new emergent technology, these new voices and this new power, I suppose?

00:50:32.000 I feel like Steven Crowder is, I agree with him ideologically, and the controversy here is he was offered a contract by the, I'm sorry, a term sheet laying out the terms potentially that would go into a contract for a deal with the Daily Wire that said you'll be penalized if you get a strike.

00:50:48.000 And the view from Crowder was this basically means he has to abide by the rules of big tech.

00:50:52.000 He made an interesting point.

00:50:53.000 He said, why wasn't Rumble included in this term sheet?

00:50:58.000 If Crowder is getting comparable views on Rumble when he's suspended from YouTube, why penalize him just because YouTube gave him a hit when he can still get...

00:51:06.000 I think he's saying he gets like 75 to 80% of the traffic on Rumble.

00:51:09.000 Obviously, there's some loss, but why should he be penalized when he could just move to a different platform?

00:51:15.000 And that I think that's an interesting point.

00:51:18.000 What I see with all of these networks, there's a problem and how it relates to Crowder. 0.70

00:51:23.000 I don't think Crowder understands running the business.

00:51:26.000 And I don't mean this to be disrespectful.

00:51:27.000 I like the guy.

00:51:29.000 But he hasn't run a business.

00:51:30.000 He's worked for other people.

00:51:32.000 I then take a look at these other networks, Rumble or Daily Wire or anyone else trying to do something similar.

00:51:37.000 Rumble's doing something somewhat different, but they are signing people to do these podcasting deals.

00:51:43.000 And I just don't feel like... I feel like there's a big driver of maximizing revenue over a sustainable system.

00:51:52.000 And that is, these networks, you know, mainly the Daily Wire, want you to do these injected ads, or they want to sell ads and they don't quite understand the space, and the space is subscription models.

00:52:04.000 That's what Crowder was saying.

00:52:05.000 Crowder was saying the ads create problems for the audience, And for the system where it degrades the content and then makes you beholden, it sours the content.

00:52:15.000 I agree with him on that.

00:52:16.000 We do almost no sponsorships for any of our content.

00:52:19.000 Almost not.

00:52:20.000 Only a small handful.

00:52:21.000 And that's mostly out of loyalty because they help us get to where we are.

00:52:24.000 And we like them.

00:52:24.000 We like these companies.

00:52:26.000 But it's interesting because There are two potential futures described in the Crowder-Daily Wire conflict.

00:52:32.000 I think both do good work.

00:52:34.000 I like the Daily Wire guys.

00:52:36.000 I don't agree with how they do contracts.

00:52:37.000 So when we negotiated, I said, nah, not for me, guys, but I appreciate it.

00:52:40.000 You do good things.

00:52:41.000 Keep it up.

00:52:42.000 There's a future where the independent media space goes the route of Hollywood and creates the same kind of infrastructure that Hollywood has, but with a different ideological slant, more free speech.

00:52:52.000 Or it goes the route that Crowder is describing in that individuals retain The things they create and build and never have to worry about being fired, canceled or censored.

00:53:03.000 I mostly agree with Crowder.

00:53:04.000 I think any new creator, any new influencer, any new personality or commentator should control their own networks.

00:53:11.000 And I don't know if a centralized system with contracts and limitations and penalties is the future that we want to build.

00:53:17.000 For the time being, I don't know where we're going to go.

00:53:19.000 But I think the Hollywood model is going to be the stronger model because you go to an up and coming young person You say we're going to overpay you, but we're going to own it.

00:53:28.000 They're going to say yes in two seconds.

00:53:31.000 That's the way the system's always been.

00:53:33.000 But I always advise people, if you do it yourself, and that means sacrifice early on, work really hard, you will eventually own it and never have to worry about being fired.

00:53:43.000 The alternative from, say, The Daily Wire is, yeah, do a two-year deal with us.

00:53:47.000 We'll own what you make.

00:53:48.000 But when you leave, you'll be famous and have a kickstart.

00:53:51.000 So it's an interesting argument to be made.

00:53:52.000 I don't think either is, you know, apocalyptically bad, but we'll see which one wins.

00:53:58.000 We'll see which format takes over.

00:53:59.000 I suppose what this space is affording all of us is the possibility, at least, you know, other than the gatekeepers that are emerging in the big tech space and the ever plain alliances that they're making, that the Twitter files in particular revealed and we long sense, and because they have the kind of commercial partnerships that traditional broadcasters always had, and therefore the same kind of It seems that the tendency will be towards some form of central centralization and perhaps what we're talking about here is something that's quite marginal.

00:54:24.000 power and ultimately the same conversion interests that have always governed

00:54:28.000 institutions of that size. It seems that the tendency will be towards some form

00:54:35.000 of central centralization and perhaps what we're talking about here is

00:54:37.000 something that's quite marginal. What I'm starting to sense is the possibility for

00:54:43.000 organizations like yours to have a value beyond the reporting of news in the same

00:54:53.000 way I suppose that branding has always assumed to have had.

00:54:57.000 It represents people in a way beyond the perfunctory usage of the product.

00:55:03.000 It represents who they are, who they feel that they are.

00:55:05.000 And I'm interested to hear about the kind of cultural artifacts that you're starting to create and the potential for organization beyond that and a possible community in El Salvador.

00:55:16.000 Oh yeah, possible community in El Salvador.

00:55:18.000 I mean, the El Salvador thing's probably just retiring, you know, by the water and finding a cheap property and saying, leave me alone.

00:55:25.000 But I probably would keep doing this work to a certain degree, depending on, you know, it would take an extreme event to get me to want to leave to go to El Salvador if I ever did.

00:55:33.000 But in terms of what we're building and where we go, I don't know if the model we're building actually is the future.

00:55:39.000 So, you know, a lot of people talk about Tim Pool's building a media empire or whatever, and I'm like, I kind of feel like it just looks like one.

00:55:46.000 You know, we've got a lot tales from the inverted w 1.00

00:55:50.000 crisis, we've got cast ca are just just fun things.

00:55:56.000 I've got a show.

00:55:57.000 I guess it's a big show.

00:55:59.000 I've got a morning show, which is smaller.

00:56:01.000 It's about half as big.

00:56:02.000 And I don't, you know, Timcast IRL isn't in the top 10 podcasts around the world.

00:56:10.000 It's not that big.

00:56:11.000 I mean, it's big on YouTube, I guess, but combining all the views, it's kind of interesting that people think it's as big as it is when I don't think it is.

00:56:19.000 We get a lot of live viewers at night at once, but we don't get nearly as many as Tucker Carlson does.

00:56:25.000 Granted, they're mostly older and we have younger people.

00:56:28.000 No, what I see happening is maybe we're visible and maybe the actions I've taken with like, say, buying a Times Square billboard create the perception that we're more powerful than we are.

00:56:38.000 But I think the reality is most people who make money in this space hoard it.

00:56:43.000 They make money, they put it in the bank, they invest it, they give it to their families or things like that.

00:56:48.000 Me?

00:56:49.000 I just spend it on weird stuff.

00:56:51.000 Like, I bought a 95 foot tall billboard of my rooster.

00:56:54.000 In Times Square.

00:56:55.000 Because I thought it was funny.

00:56:57.000 Because my view is...

00:56:58.000 You gotta throw a pie.

00:56:59.000 You gotta do something.

00:57:01.000 And I just don't like the idea that so many people come to their work, say their thing, but their real priorities are elsewhere.

00:57:06.000 They're not actually interested in affecting the culture in a positive way.

00:57:09.000 So I think the fact that I'm willing to reinvest the money we make from the show back into other projects makes it look like we're bigger than we are, when in reality, there are way better-funded shows with way more viewership that seem smaller.

00:57:21.000 So, I don't know.

00:57:22.000 Perception is reality, I guess.

00:57:23.000 Maybe it's just I'm good at making it look like we're doing big stuff.

00:57:27.000 Or maybe we really are.

00:57:29.000 Thank you, Tim.

00:57:30.000 Tim, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:57:32.000 Thanks for the ongoing work that you do and the difference that you're making in this space.

00:57:37.000 And what seems to me to be an almost pathological commitment to integrity and authenticity that I think perhaps even goes beyond I really appreciate you Tim.

00:57:46.000 I really appreciate you being in the space.

00:57:47.000 Thanks for the help you've given us as we evolve and develop our projects as well.

00:57:50.000 and scrutiny has gone into this anecdote.

00:57:54.000 I really appreciate you, Tim.

00:57:56.000 I really appreciate you being in the space.

00:57:57.000 Thanks for the help that you've given us as we evolve and develop our projects as well.

00:58:00.000 Thanks for your time.

00:58:02.000 We look forward to having you.

00:58:03.000 Yeah, I can't wait to come down that winding mountain road and travel through the pines and see the skateboard ramp and act normal in the green room.

00:58:11.000 And then the minute that the cameras go on, kick off and start saying, this should be recolonized.

00:58:16.000 King George III, tip over to...

00:58:19.000 Throw coffee on the floor.

00:58:21.000 Oh, man.

00:58:21.000 Thanks, Tim.

00:58:22.000 Thanks so much for your time.

00:58:23.000 Lots of love, man.

00:58:23.000 Thanks for having me.

00:58:25.000 Take it easy.

00:58:25.000 You can catch Tim's show every weekday from 8 p.m.

00:58:28.000 That's Eastern Time at Timcast.com.

00:58:30.000 You can follow him on Twitter at Timcast.

00:58:32.000 And of course, you can watch him on Rumble or wherever you consume your content.

00:58:37.000 Please join me next week when my special guest will be Jeremy Corbell, who's of course going to talk to us about UFOs, balloons, the deep state.

00:58:47.000 Are they using these UFO stories right now to distract us?

00:58:51.000 Are we finally entering into a phase of history where we acknowledge that we're not alone in the universe and perhaps even religious entities and scriptural tales of law are filled with extraterrestrial entities?

00:59:03.000 We'll also be speaking to Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges, and Christian Smalls will be live in the studio with me, the Amazon-Labor Union leader that we spoke to a couple of weeks ago will be joining us to talk more about the potential for a global workers' movement.

00:59:18.000 Sign up to Locals for my weekly exclusive show, Stay Connected, a weekly meditation, and to be the first to watch my new forthcoming stand-up comedy special, which I know you're gonna love.

00:59:28.000 See you Monday, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

00:59:32.000 Until then, stay free.

00:59:33.000 Stay free with Russell Brand.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - February 17, 2023

Tim Pool (Is The System Destabilising?)

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