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00:03:16.000Now when Trump fans sing Lock Her Up, even though I like anthems, I've always been a fan of anthems, I like the behaviour of crowds, I find it interesting, I like football, Crowds.
00:04:38.000Would someone, surely, rather than stoking the being of a Crowd as though they were a gladiatorial event.
00:04:51.000Wouldn't it have been, wasn't there a form of words that might have come from a statesman?
00:04:57.000Something statesman-like that would have taken on board and made something of the fact that the passion in the room, the strength of feeling was understandable.
00:05:09.000But that now was the time to look back and reflect and to see that there are strategies and performances and forms of words that are best avoided.
00:05:20.000And while I understand, I can understand why here in this pressure cooker atmosphere of the convention, feelings are running high.
00:05:30.000It's always time and there's always an opportunity to find a better way and let's just find a better way.
00:05:36.000Do you know, there are ways in which rather than just pouring petrol in the fire by grinning like a Cheshire cat, that it's infantile.
00:05:45.000A statesman would have handled that differently.
00:05:48.000Because I suppose there is no meaning at the core and no principles that are being followed, it's difficult to have reference even to what you're describing, which is a kind of a moral sensibility and statesmanship that is absent entirely from this space.
00:06:03.000Some of us might have thought at the RNC, well, Hulk Hogan, this thing's crazy, but what's the difference?
00:07:04.000And also, what does that suggest to you, mate?
00:07:06.000Well, obviously you can see why some people consider him numero uno, because he may well be one of a kind in certain respects.
00:07:15.000But again, again, why would you take such a line?
00:07:21.000Why would you say, yes it is money that matters, it's all about money and I'm your kind of billionaire and it's okay to be this kind of billionaire if you're going to do the things that we will do to get back into power.
00:07:34.000That's just naked abuse of power and position and money.
00:07:39.000Again, would somebody not have said, it's not about the money.
00:07:46.000It's about believing in something and if you can convince other people of the sincerity of your belief then they will come with you.
00:07:53.000Even if you don't have a penny in your pocket?
00:07:55.000Is that not the kind of line that people might be inspired by, rather than saying, yeah, yeah, he's a rubbish billionaire, I'm an excellent one?
00:08:02.000If there were ethics and principles at the core of this movement then that would be possible and maybe even likely, but what I suppose we're offering you is the idea that this is a spectacle with very little beneath it except for the naked pursuit of power.
00:08:16.000Frankly, I'm thankful that JB Pritzker himself was not naked.
00:08:20.000Here is a terrifying announcement from our island about Operation Early Dawn.
00:08:27.000I'm sure you'll be familiar with this, Neil.
00:08:29.000This is the early release of current prisoners in order to make way for new prisoners for new crimes, for crimes that have as yet to have been invented, perhaps.
00:08:41.000We will make sure that those people who need to be in prison, will be in prison.
00:08:46.000Not necessarily in the area where they live, they may be two, three hundred miles away from home, but we will guarantee people a prison cell.
00:09:03.000Yeah, there's plenty of examples online, you know, a justice, a judge or whatever, you know, reading out the Facebook posting of a man saying, well, words to the effect that he didn't want his tax spent on illegal immigrants when there were homeless people on the streets and so on and so on, but voicing opposition to the presence of large numbers of illegal immigrants.
00:09:31.000And the judge said it was such a serious offence that a custodial sentence was unavoidable.
00:09:37.00020 months in jail for something they put on Facebook.
00:09:39.000And yet, at the same time, running in parallel is talk of, you know, potentially people guilty of actual violent crime being allowed out to make space for, well, political prisoners and enemies of the state is really what we're being told here.
00:09:55.000That people that have just done run-of-the-mill things like hit somebody over the head with a bottle, or whatever, need not necessarily be in jail.
00:10:02.000But if you have dissented, if you have spoken out, if you have said things that don't chime with the official narrative, then it's a prison cell for you, hundreds of miles from home.
00:10:14.000Neil Oliver, if you're not familiar with him, is known as the Coast Guy on X. He is a writer and podcaster.
00:10:32.000Join us over on Rumble, where we'll be having a conversation about the crisis in meaning, the loss of truth, The power of the pandemic and the ability to manipulate and control behaviour on an epic and unprecedented scale.
00:10:45.000If you're not an awakened wonder yet, consider clicking the link in the description and becoming one.
00:10:49.000We analyse stand-up comedy over there.
00:10:51.000This week I've been looking at some of Rowan Atkinson's brilliant comedy, inspired by the resurfacing clip of him Expressing his deep concern about the sudden emergence of censorship that would have been unthinkable in the 80s and 90s when he was practicing some of his greatest work, although he continues to be magnificent and brilliant.
00:11:20.000Neil, it's so lovely to have the opportunity to speak with you in person.
00:11:24.000I enjoyed our rural drive here as well and we didn't discuss our wardrobe and we've known for some time about our haircuts and beards.
00:11:35.000Do you think that if an alien force were to land and to conduct a kind of culling, they probably would determine quite quickly that they didn't need both of us?
00:11:48.000Well, as I've said before, I look as if I've been made with the bits left over from the larger pie that was you.
00:11:54.000I don't think that's... I've been made out of the little bits that got cut off around the rim.
00:11:58.000I've already observed the areas in which you have benefited and that you have superseded me.
00:12:05.000Root uplift and maybe follicle density being but two.
00:12:09.000I've always been, well not always, but from my late teens onwards I've always had longer hair and yet even now, aged 57, anytime anything is written about me it always mentions the fact that I've got, you know, Hair on my head, and it's amazing how it's sustained as a point of interest.
00:13:16.000And there are many other examples of it and I do wonder at the extent to which maybe there's been some sort of response to the situation, to the stresses and strains, to the tightening of the leash that has encouraged more males to Get a bit shaggier than they would ever have been under other circumstances.
00:13:35.000My shagginess has been reduced, I will tell you that, by a number of external factors.
00:13:40.000I used to be a lot more shaggy, depending just how you're using this word.
00:13:45.000But I think it's noticeable that there's more hairy men visible than I remember in recent times.
00:13:52.000Neil, you and I have both crossed over from more sanctioned mainstream spaces that you were for a long time a highly, and I don't mean you're not highly regarded now, but a highly regarded sort of mainstream figure that you were affiliated with things like the Scottish National Trust and you were a relatively safe individual.
00:14:14.000Do you feel, as I do, that what's happened is more and more things have become It's not that long ago that you were on the front page of the Scottish Times in a headline that made you sound... well, some of your content was pulled from YouTube on the basis of anti-semitism, although I was interested to learn that YouTube did not nominate, describe, or appoint any particular part of your one-hour long interview with Whitney Webb as being anti-semitic, but the Times were able to make that deduction.
00:15:07.000It's a bit like being told, I think, you need to go to your room and think about what you did here.
00:15:10.000But they don't tell you explicitly what the problem is.
00:15:13.000They just say, we're not having... And it's over an hour long, an hour and a half long, whatever.
00:15:18.000And yet, and yet, somehow the Sunday Times were able to conclude that it had been taken down on the grounds of anti-Semitism.
00:15:27.000And if it was, I don't know where that allegation came from, such that I don't know if the Sunday Times are actually making a story out of their own allegation.
00:15:35.000Neil, I strongly disagree with everything you've just... No, actually, Neil, you're right as always.
00:15:38.000Here's a quick message from one of our supporters.
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00:17:14.000One, the assumption of a somewhat parental dynamic that you receive when communicating with YouTube.
00:17:20.000An unprecedented giant in the media and communication space.
00:17:25.000That initially in the early years of YouTube it seemed like it would be a platform that facilitated free speech and empowered creators and certainly to a degree it was.
00:17:37.000Even a relative latecomer like me was able to experience radical and rapid growth reach a lot of people but in that short period of time I've noticed how In one's communications with a platform like YouTube, you can see what power is like now.
00:17:54.000And I alluded to this in our journey here in the Volkswagen Camper, but you didn't pick up on the reference and I was hurt then, so I'm going to drop the reference a lot harder this time.
00:18:02.000That in Kafka's The Trial, there is this idea that the protagonist is defending himself from an allegation that is unclear.
00:18:13.000And the power that Kafka describes in the trial, and I think elsewhere in his writing, is a kind of bureaucratic power that is difficult to understand.
00:18:25.000Now, I suppose it's my own editorialization to add to that the kind of banal benignness and soma-induced sweetness of Huxley's dystopia in Brave New World, but it seems to me that when you bring those two together, and of course add Orwell, why not everybody else does with
00:18:42.000the inversion of meaning, the forever wars and the many other motifs that Orwell seems to have been prescient
00:19:34.000If you're a child, hypothetically in a child-parent situation, a parent, a frustrated parent that just couldn't be bothered might just say, don't ask me why, just do what you're told.
00:19:46.000I think it also inevitably and deliberately leads to self-censorship.
00:19:50.000Because you just become, well, frightened perhaps, or certainly cautious to the point where you think, maybe it's just not worth bothering doing anything at all.
00:20:01.000What is the point, you know, when you may face censure?
00:20:06.000And you may have them put up a thing saying you've violated.
00:20:12.000And then when it leads to third party headlines, you know, in a broadsheet newspaper that put your name together with anti-Semitism and the one has sprung organically from the other, all of it conspires to just be discouraging.
00:20:26.000I don't need this in my life, potentially, is the way that you might think.
00:20:30.000But I also do wonder at the extent to which it's an inevitable consequence of all of those platforms having come from, well, a sinister place.
00:20:45.000I was involved with the internet very early on.
00:20:47.000I was involved with Britain's third website, which was BT.com, British Telecom, at a time when in Britain there was only a website for Tesco supermarket and I think one of the banks, Royal Bank of Scotland maybe, I can't remember, but BT.com was the third.
00:21:05.000And there was a time when everyone was invited to think, hey, it's this Wild West, you know, free for all, it's all going to be, you know, it's all free source and you can download and you can get all the software and it seemed benign and benevolent.
00:21:19.000And then you realise, when you dig into it a bit, that the internet itself came from DARPA.
00:21:28.000And we're always invited to think that things like Google, which has now become Alphabet, and Facebook, and all of these things were just clever, nerdy, geeky guys in their garages or their mum's spare bedroom, collaborating to produce these amazing things.
00:21:42.000Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook and all of it.
00:21:44.000And then you dig a bit into that and you realise, well no, these things were all acquired very early on by the same military intelligence community and all of the rest of it.
00:21:55.000And so lo and behold, quite soon really, in the lifetime of something as massive as the internet, it has become apparent that it has been intended to have been a means of control, a means of surveillance, a means of monitoring, a means of harvesting data about people at a level that would have been Unthinkable and impossible by any other means.
00:22:17.000You know, a level of data collection that would have been beyond the dreams of a Stalin or a Mao.
00:22:26.000So why are we surprised when, in short order, within our lifetimes, it has become what it always was?
00:22:34.000And the gloves are off, the mask is off, and it's now becoming apparent that actually, if you're going to step into this arena, it's my way or the highway.
00:22:42.000These are the rules and if you want to step out you better be putting out some pretty anodyne content at worst or stuff that toes a party line because anything else there's going to be consequences and you won't know when those consequences are and when you breach the guidelines we won't even enter into a sensible professional dialogue with you about what it is that you've done wrong.
00:23:03.000On that basis, Martin Gurry's excellent analysis in his book The Revolt of the Public may be askew.
00:23:10.000He offers us, Neil, the idea that what we have now is a scenario where new elites are unable to marshal the new spaces that have been opened up by the internet and the subsequent spaces that is afforded us.
00:23:23.000you alluded to the common analogy that it was kind of like a Wild West and I've always been kind of
00:23:27.000willing to wear that, that there was a territory, albeit a cyber one, that was sort of slowly tiled over by the logos
00:23:35.000of Meta and Alphabet et al. As they slowly colonized and
00:23:41.000controlled these previously free spaces
00:23:45.000redolent with potentiality. And now what we have is a controlled space in
00:23:51.000the same way that the world, I think it was you and I that were discussing this, is
00:23:55.000being turned slowly into one big airport where your every action is monitored and controlled
00:24:03.000It struck me as interesting when you spoke about the infantilization that we are encountering as a kind.
00:24:10.000That a child is in continual crisis if you consider risk to be a mild form of crisis and the role of a parent to be One primarily of a protector.
00:24:19.000That what we're continually offered are dynamics that suggest crisis.
00:24:24.000Whether it's a health crisis, a military crisis, a financial crisis, a cyber attack crisis.
00:24:29.000As long as there are all these crises, then we require authoritarianism.
00:24:33.000And it seems now that there was something rather sweet and twee about the authoritarianism of the 20th century.
00:24:40.000People marching about, goose stepping in leather boots and Sieg Heil in left and right.
00:24:46.000Now, What you get, I believe, is an insidious power that comes to you almost gaseously garrulous and friendly.
00:24:57.000You have transgressed against community guidelines.
00:25:01.000Now, I wonder whether or not the internet was always imagined as a space for surveillance, control and commercial opportunity.
00:25:12.000A few illustrative stories that, just to drop in before you resume, dear Neil, might be Mike Benzie's tale, although of course it's true, I presume, that Uh, Serge Brin and Larry Page, founders of Google, had their PhD at, I think Stanford, but I could be wrong, funded by a CIA carve-out.
00:25:33.000And when he told me this, it was one, you know, sometimes someone tells you something and the scales fall from your eyes.
00:25:38.000He said that, And then they found Google and Google Maps.
00:25:43.000And you think, of course, PhD students aren't launching satellites into space.
00:25:50.000Someone granted them access to previously existing technology.
00:25:54.000At best, they alloyed whatever ingenuity, and I certainly wouldn't deny them that, they created with the search engines and the capacity to create the systems and the surfaces of the map app.
00:26:05.000But there definitely has to be government involvement just for the... and it seems to me what you're suggesting is from the outset, these spaces were always designed to create control.
00:26:16.000Yeah, I mean, it was just a... if it's too good to be true, you know, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
00:26:24.000If you're not paying for it, you're the product.
00:26:32.000You know, if you're not paying, you're the product.
00:26:34.000I can remember sitting in on meetings about, you know, early days of the website that I previously mentioned and saying, how come all of this is free?
00:26:41.000Because, you know, British Telecom's a telecom company.
00:26:45.000People were charged per call, you know, for the phone calls that they made.
00:26:49.000And yet this thing was manifesting and everything about it was free.
00:26:55.000And those conversations never really went anywhere because there was other matters, more corporate and business to be discussed.
00:27:02.000But as it turns out, it was an important thing to be paying attention to because it was being laid out like flypaper onto which people would step and be unable to move and they would themselves become The end game of the product and people have been harvested, people have been collected into these platforms and every kind of detail about the way that you think and the things that you do and what you're interested in has all been collected and collated and it's all there and that almost certainly was someone's potential objective all along.
00:27:41.000I think the other side of that is I think possibly an unintended consequence is that The internet is a double-edged sword and that which I would contend was probably always designed to be used to control and to be used against us is also being used against the very people whose concept it was.
00:28:02.000And I don't think that was perhaps predicted that it would be as problematic as it has been.
00:28:06.000And it's into that, it's to solve that problem that all the censorship has suddenly come.
00:28:12.000I suspect that wasn't always Going to be the case.
00:28:15.000It's just that people networked via the very technology itself, found each other.
00:28:23.000People of like mind were able to collaborate and to share ideas and to take reassurance from, I'm not mad, thousands of other people, even millions of other people are seeing this, are thinking this.
00:28:36.000So that the, you know, the internet has become, you know, has become a problem as well as, it's a double-edged sword.
00:28:44.000It's become a solution to a corporate and an intelligence community challenge, but it has also become something that potentially threatens the, you know, the control that has been acquired.
00:29:03.000Listen, you know that we are partners with Rumble, and Rumble have gotten into the coffee game.
00:29:08.000Now, if you knew that your coffee had been tainted with pesticides and chemicals, sitting in bags for months, sitting in an old ball bag for months, probably with traces of mould, would you drink it?
00:29:18.000The answer is, of course you wouldn't.
00:29:20.000Even Joe... Jill Biden wouldn't drink a bag so contaminated.
00:29:25.000Most of the coffee we consume is stale, flavourless, and full of harmful substances that have a negative effect on our health.
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00:30:16.000And I say that as an Englishman for whom the date 1775 is a very painful thing to reflect on.
00:30:23.000One of the things that seems clear is that there are now no longer the requirement for the rigid taxonomies that of which we seem so certain for a century or so that emerged, I suppose, post the industrial revolution.
00:30:39.000emergence of socialism, the emergence of capitalism at least in its sort of relatively modern forms,
00:30:45.000and the political movements that come from them, republicanism and the democrats, you know,
00:30:50.000a centre-left and a centre-right political party nominally, and in our country the conservatives
00:30:56.000and the labour movement from the 1940s particularly onward.
00:31:00.000And it seemed then, because of the inability to create networked consensus and ongoing
00:31:06.000communications that in terms of power and power dynamics might resemble rather than two poles, two
00:31:14.000opposing forces, a heat map in a sports match, say football for example, where you would see, ah,
00:31:20.000here there are a bunch of relationships around free speech, here there are a bunch of relationships
00:31:25.000around anti-war, here there are a bunch of relationships and connections around commodity or
00:31:34.000There are any number of issues around which novel relationships can be formed and I wonder, Neil, if that presents an almost anarchic threat in so much as it seems to me that What we are being confronted by is a tendency to centralize power under the auspices of social democracy.
00:31:55.000Liberal democracy appears to require high taxation, high control, opportunity for authority.
00:32:04.000I never thought that I'd be a person that would line up with like free market capitalism and those kind of things.
00:32:08.000I'm a sort of person who, in a rather general way, picked up my political thinking such as it is autodidactic etc.
00:32:15.000From, you know, the counterculture, from the civil rights movement, from reading conspiracy theorists or radical academics, all somewhat superficially because I didn't go to university or anything, and it seems now odd to me that what is presented as the inheritor of the civil rights movement, take the example of the
00:32:37.000democratic national convention and its denizens, seems to me to be more the exemplar of the Huxley-esque,
00:32:43.000Kafka-esque, bureaucratic, technological feudalism and therefore a much greater threat to individual
00:32:50.000freedom and collective freedoms, because it does seem to me that that is the, uh, bulwark,
00:32:57.000the vanguard of the march for truly globalist power, usually legitimized by crisis, whether
00:33:04.000that crisis is the The Berlin Wall has come down, 9-11, a pandemic, a global war, a terrorist threat, germs, whatever it is, they're going to use fear to legitimise the centralisation of power.
00:33:16.000Whereas this new technology would suggest a possibility of truly local power.
00:33:23.000The kind of communities of affinity that might form around anything like, for example, horticulture
00:33:30.000or baseball, but could also form around how are we going to manage our schools in this
00:33:35.000area, our water board, our energy, our budget, our agriculture.
00:33:40.000How are we going to handle this community's migration?
00:33:43.000It seems to me the opportunity for decentralization afforded by this technology is being deliberately obfuscated because if it was realized what you would have will be a genuine threat to the two poles of power that seem to vacillate either between overreach of corporate power or overreach of the state.
00:34:00.000That seems to be the general pendulum motion.
00:34:02.000But you know after the 20th century who Who among us would be delighted to choose between communism or fascism as the as the sort of overteen window of choice?
00:34:13.000I think what seems to me to be the reality is that the access that so many of us have had to information, to data, and perhaps more important than either, is connections.
00:34:31.000We've been able to find like-minded people and share so much information.
00:34:37.000A consequence of all of that has been to reveal that none of the ideologies that some people once genuinely espoused and many people genuinely invested hope in have stood up to the kind of scrutiny that has been made possible by all of these things.
00:34:58.000So much information, so much shared information, so many conversations possible with so many unlikely people.
00:35:05.000That whatever, you know, communism, free market capitalism, any of it, is all being exposed as hollow.
00:35:14.000And when you talk about grassroots community, local solutions, and the people being able to find locally appropriate ways to meet their own needs, those things are undergirded by real feeling.
00:35:34.000That's real people's lives and real people genuinely wanting the best for their family and wanting the best for communities that they feel embedded in and they feel part of and that they want to see, you know, survive into the next generation and all of the rest of it.
00:35:46.000So there's reality there and there's meaning there at that level.
00:35:51.000And what has happened is when you take it up to the levels of these ideologies, they've just been exposed, I would say, as the Emperor's new clothes.
00:36:02.000I don't think it's possible to take any of these people seriously anymore, be they Democrats or Republicans, be they Labour or Conservative or Liberal.
00:36:15.000The scrutiny under which all of that has been put has revealed that there's nothing there.
00:36:22.000And I think it's actually, for a sensitive soul, it's actually quite devastating.
00:36:28.000Because it feels as if we've been living in a, you know, hypnotized by something and someone snapped their fingers and everyone has, or so many people have woken up and thought, oh, it's not that at all.
00:36:40.000It's none of that, none of that has any meaning.
00:36:43.000You know, a friend of mine, Nick Hudson, you know, he talks about Hudson's razor, which is this heuristic about if you, if it's pitched at you as a global crisis, To which there is only a top-down solution.
00:36:59.000And thirdly, if any dissent to the top-down solution and the validity of the crisis, that dissent is to be crushed.
00:37:11.000If you can find those three things, be it in a pandemic, be it in the climate crisis, be it in anything, if those three things hold true, then you're dealing with a scam.
00:37:24.000And that, and I think, what I feel is that the ideologies were inherited by second and third and fourth generations.
00:37:35.000Someone like, you know, if there ever was, you know, one of the conspiracy theories about there being a kind of a Cecil Rhodes, Alfred Milner group that wanted to perpetuate the British Empire into forever.
00:37:47.000This will last forever if we take the right steps now.
00:37:50.000But they live and die and they're Their objectives have to be handed on to the next generation and then to the next and to the next.
00:38:32.000And I think what people are finding very difficult, challenging, and it depends if you're optimistic or pessimistic, but there is now, the time now is for a whole New sense of meaning and validity and substance has to come from somewhere because everything else has been worn through.
00:38:52.000You know, like some photograph that's been pinned up on a wall and had too much sunshine on it.
00:38:58.000There's nothing there and people feel it.
00:39:00.000Or it could be like those photographs of Marty McFly, where he slowly fades as decisions are made that might interrupt the possibility of his conception, which is as good a way as any to demonstrate the problems of time travel.
00:39:15.000Because one of the things that I started our conversation with Neil was that both of us in our own way were mainstream figures.
00:39:21.000I was mainstream entertainment, mainstream Hollywood, I was on BBC Radio 2, Channel 4, making movies with Warner Brothers, Universal, You, it seems, were present at the inception of the internet itself with British Telecom and I wonder how we've become such marginal figures because I still consider myself to be someone who cares about individual freedom, equality, like the kind of things I don't trust the establishment, all the things I always felt and always thought are present with me yet.
00:39:49.000So what has changed about the world to Turn both of us in our own ways, from you from coast guy to castaway, from celebrated icons of hedonism to pariahs, and in certain communities at least, condemned and feared.
00:40:09.000to like we're talking now in a sort of in a very general way about seismic events like the impact of the internet the emergence of censorship and i i love your musing on the likelihood that the pandemic was a scam and but so before we ventured into that i thought well Is that something that you now believe?
00:40:29.000And I like, because me, I was kind of, I realise what I'm basically doing now is saying I've been into that band for ages.
00:40:36.000I used to read like a lot of David Icke and stuff when I was like 15, 16 when I was dropping acid and that.
00:40:41.000I was sort of David Icke when just after he'd been on Wogan and been sort of ridiculed and kind of some of the things he said was pretty crazy.
00:40:48.000A lot of the things David Icke says still seem quite crazy to me.
00:40:51.000Certainly he doesn't hold back in criticising either of us two, but I do feel Look, a lot of what David Icke is saying is like, I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR AGES, YOU BASTARDS!
00:41:02.000Like, almost every tweet is, I KNEW THIS YOU BASTARDS!
00:41:05.000And like, so, I wonder though, like you know, when it comes to something like, I bet you can find, in the same way as with Alex Jones, you can find footage of Alex Jones prior to 9-11-2001 saying, That, well, there's this guy called Osama Bin Laden, he's gonna fly planes into the Twin Towers, hits the CIA... You know, like, that's pretty extraordinary that someone that did that is now, in the mainstream, primarily known for his rather egregious remarks around Sandy Hook.
00:41:31.000And then if you take someone like David Icke, I'm even, I must say in a rather esoteric way, pretty interested in some of his more occultist, Baroque, interdimensional being stuff, because it does seem that something pretty dark and bizarre is going on.
00:41:44.000What do you consider to be the most verifiable, fascinating and viscous conspiracy theories that you've encountered, and how do you separate the chaff from the wheat, and which things do you lean into?
00:41:56.000Because a lot of what we're talking about, mate, is a kind of desacralisation and banalisation, and certainly all of this Illuminati and dimensional being stuff certainly galvanises interest and indeed intrigue.
00:42:09.000When you realise that you've definitely been lied to about something by authority.
00:42:18.000I've said this until I'm almost blue in the face, that I just wasn't paying attention.
00:42:24.000And if that's the same as being asleep, then I was asleep.
00:42:26.000I mean, I was preoccupied with, you know, doing my own stuff, paying the mortgage, da-da-da-da, getting the next gig and all of the rest of it.
00:42:32.000And I wasn't watching what politicians were saying and I wasn't watching the way society was evolving.
00:42:37.000And it absolutely was the case that that all happened to me during the, you know, the COVID era.
00:42:42.000That was when I started for the first time thinking, hold the phone, that's, wait a minute, there's something egregiously wrong with this now.
00:42:51.000It was a process of, you know, paying attention then.
00:42:54.000That's definitely wrong now, I thought, by some point in 2020.
00:42:59.000And once you lose trust, trust is a fundamental, it's one of those things, it's like sacred, it's like truth.
00:43:07.000Once the trust goes, once the vase is broken, you can stick it back together again and make it look like it did, but you wouldn't fill it up with water and pick it up by the handle.
00:43:18.000And once you think, God, if they laughed at me about that, if they said that something as enormous as a global pandemic that was going to kill 500,000 people in Britain if we didn't all go home and stay there, and millions of people around the world.
00:43:32.000If they're going to lie about that, then what else, what else?
00:43:36.000And so, you ask the question, you know, what conspiracy theories?
00:43:41.000I'm now, I've become, well, reluctantly at first, but you think, well, I just have to be open-minded about everything now until I get to the bottom of all of it.
00:43:53.000And there's this concept that I'm quite attracted to, this staircase of disbelief.
00:44:47.000And like you, I remember David Icke appearing on Wogan, you know, in the purple leisure wear and saying that he was the son of God and all of that.
00:44:58.000And then much more, much later, seeing that he was talking about this thing about, you know, if they create a crisis, they can then offer you the solution.
00:45:07.000And by the way, they had the solution ready before they created the crisis.
00:45:09.000Now, And yes, he does now keep saying, I knew that!
00:45:16.000And he's a bit like, you know, an old star who just keeps on singing Delilah rather than do new stuff.
00:45:23.000You know, he's got to move on with it rather than keep just claiming ownership of... Yeah, we get it, we get it, we get it.
00:45:28.000But that said, he's been right about a lot of stuff.
00:45:31.000He's been right about, I would say, about a centralising of control, about an unelected, unaccountable, largely out of sight, you know, group loosely allied with their own competing interests, you know, who can see that the more that they can control The richer and the more powerful that they will be and he's been preaching that for a long time and he's right about a lot of that.
00:45:54.000But I think that I am 100% certain that the pandemic was a scam.
00:46:19.000And that's the same people that would die every year with various, you know, viruses and the kind of things that come every winter and harvest tens of thousands.
00:46:29.000And those deaths don't make any headlines, never have before.
00:46:32.000The pandemic was a pandemic of testing, it was a pandemic of fear, it was a pandemic of PPE, it was a pandemic of propaganda and I'm also prepared to believe that it was choreographed and rehearsed years previously, maybe even decades previously, because it has done what it's done.
00:46:49.000It's the biggest transfer of wealth in history and the leash has been shortened and an enormous amount of control has been established and people were tested to see if they would be submissive in the face of Egregious limitations on their freedoms.
00:47:20.000is out there saying the CIA shot my uncle and they shot my dad.
00:47:23.000And you think, oh my god, you know, I spent years saying, of course you didn't, it was Lee Harvey Oswald in the book Depository, anyone can see that.
00:47:39.000We were talking earlier about like the surfeit of information and the impact that it has and I'm trying to understand these new categories of misinformation and malinformation and I suppose what they do is they create a sort of tenure and pathway for control because I'm starting to suspect that these new and emergent elites and their practices benefit from us being deluged and overwhelmed by information In so much as I was listening to you, Neil, talking about the pandemic and I imagine that all of, you know, your audience, my audience, our collective and shared audience are somewhere on the spectrum of it was a pandemic, that it was deliberately released, you know, that one end in order to generate
00:48:28.000I don't think you even need to go there.
00:48:36.000There's the endless furious debate about labs and Wuhan and released or not released and gain of function and all of the rest of it.
00:48:47.000The point is, nothing of note happened.
00:48:53.000Whatever Covid was up to, and including it wasn't anything at all, through to whatever it was, gain of function, release from a lab, whatever, it didn't do anything at all.
00:49:03.000I mean you go to the official government figures from a country like Germany, Well, Freudian slip there.
00:50:05.000Everyone says they won't put up with this but let's just see how far we can take this and let's get the money.
00:50:12.000Yes, and at the other end of the spectrum, what can be tracked?
00:50:17.000We touched upon a recent guest on this show, Jay Bhattacharya, who seems to be a person interested only really in the rendering of simple facts, and in the great Barrington Declaration, of which he was one of the co-creators, They said consider natural immunity, consider the possibility that it doesn't impact children, consider shielding the more vulnerable people and look at the efficacy of lockdowns, look at alternative medications other than vaccines, don't vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic.
00:50:48.000perfectly reasonable assertions that have subsequently proven to be true. But
00:50:53.000what my point is, Neil, is other than sort of intrepid folks that tenaciously
00:50:58.000continue to pursue truth in this area, I would say that most of us, even
00:51:05.000people that work in the space like you and I, experience a kind of fatigue. And
00:51:08.000because of this surfeit of information, seems like such a long time ago, and I
00:51:12.000even feel sort of bewildered by it all, even though I suspect that there's a
00:51:17.000connection between the kind of content that I discuss and that you discuss and
00:51:21.000some of the external consequences that I have experienced.
00:51:26.000I don't imagine those things are unrelated.
00:51:29.000It still seems hard to convince, and is indeed our duty to convince, people outside of the audiences that we already communicate with that something extraordinary happened in the last few years.
00:51:45.000And as you say, there has been a tightening of the leash, the stranglehold, the choking has somewhat receded, but not to where it was before.
00:51:53.000And you can tell with every subsequent crisis that almost a paradigm was minted that can be rebooted at will.
00:52:01.000It was around that time that we started to get those emergency messages on our phone.
00:52:05.000And I remember everyone thinking, what's this new thing that they're doing?
00:52:07.000I remember there was a sort of a slight weather crisis.
00:52:10.000And that weather crisis, people sort of talked about, should we shut the schools?
00:52:13.000In a way, I don't know if it's sort of snow days and stuff.
00:52:16.000I felt though that there was a kind of a coached readiness to yield to crisis.
00:52:21.000And most of all, I feel that there's a sense now of despair, bewilderment, a kind of a breakdown, and I wonder, Neil, if indeed we will ever be able to make people accept that something of that magnitude has taken place, almost because it's
00:52:42.000Too vast and too big and even in the UK riots recently there was a sense of oh wow look at the response how quick and rapid and authoritarian and the response was and how easily an authoritarian leader who sort of again campaigns under sort of the auspices of tenderness can impose extraordinary measures quite quickly.
00:53:05.000The big lie, you know, that the likes of Hitler and Goebbels and whatever famously said, you know, if you make the lie big enough, you know, little lies are, everyone tells little lies, you know, every day.
00:53:17.000But big lies, so the example being, if you tell the entire population of the world that they're at risk of dying from a new disease, and they have to do this or they will die, and everyone else around them will die, To then expect, for people like us, to expect all those people to accept that they were duped by something so huge and global.
00:53:46.000It's easier to just continue to believe the big lie.
00:53:50.000Because to take on board the fact that the entire world's authority figures lied in the same way, in an orchestrated and choreographed way, at the same time, because they wanted more control and more money.
00:54:46.000I know that, I did that at school with JB Priestley.
00:54:50.000If you get everyone to share the guilt, Then they're so ashamed by the guilt that they'll just, let's just keep this under the rug because we've all got skin in the game on this, let's just... And you think that's population wide in this instance?
00:55:07.000So I think potentially what's happened here, so many people went along with Taking the medical intervention, pushing it on their kids so they could go skiing, snitching on their neighbours, or maybe they enjoyed the vilification of the unvaccinated, being able to at least vicariously look on at the othering of a minority group.
00:55:39.000There's so many people, it's just undeniable, are complicit in it.
00:55:44.000And so that complicity is the glue that binds and it makes people disinclined to drop it, re-evaluate it, admit that they were wrong because they took part in it in the same way that everyone stabbed the guy in the Orient Express.
00:56:00.000Yeah, you're right, that didn't happen in Death in the Nile, it wouldn't have worked.
00:56:04.000It's that shared complicity and I think what was extremely clever in what was done to populations was that the authorities made accomplices of significant proportions of the population who would now, rather than confront that, And accept that, oh yeah, I did do that.
00:56:25.000I was part of that, I did do that and I feel badly about it.
00:56:28.000It's better just to keep on going and put that behind us.
00:56:32.000Let's forget all about that and move on to the next thing.
00:56:36.000One of my favorite bits of writing is in Herman Melville's Moby Dick.
00:56:43.000He talks about how there is an analogy between our intuitive feelings about land as a place of safety, verdant and abundant and occupied.
00:56:55.000And the sea as an expanse that if confronted with for too long can induce a kind of desperate despair.
00:57:05.000In the template that you drew out for us there of a kind of unwillingness to confront what we had all mutually participated in, I sense that there might be something broader still, in that we perhaps all sense that we are participating in a more general way, in a series of synthetic acts and activities, that we have lost our connection to the sacred and to one another.
00:57:38.000Look, I feel it in this most mundane of examples that we're just nodes of utility.
00:57:45.000Like that when you're buying something in H&M and you recognize that the store assistant don't even have the authority to grant you a discount.
00:57:58.000They are just the occupants of a system.
00:58:05.000Fact and and that actually goes beyond that's an obviously a one would assume a relatively low paid position in retail and I think that the same Condition exists as you go up and up the bureaucratic scale So you might have someone like Thierry Breton who appears to have a degree of power But ultimately only has the power afforded to him by that role and if you don't If you don't exercise that power in the way that the system demands you will be dispatched and someone else will come in and I think even with more celebrated figures Like Biden, Clinton, Bush, whoever.
00:58:35.000You still have the need for compliance and that's before we investigate the likelihood that there has long been a playbook of ensuring that these people have skeletons in their closet or have some kind of deep-held secret that can be mobilized against them should they prove non-compliant.
00:58:58.000There's a significant evidence that Jeffrey Epstein worked with deep state agencies, that the people on his list, on his black book, had been compromised.
00:59:08.000And it's so interesting how a story like the Epstein story still exists, because again, as we've discussed earlier in our conversation, the internet just affords that kind of transparency at its best.
00:59:20.000As with the COVID inquiries in our country and in the United States, there's this sense of spectacle that it sort of plays out that no one's ever really held to account.
00:59:32.000I can be banned and accused and have allegations made against me.
00:59:36.000But when it comes to real power, Epstein, when it comes to what you at least posit, and I'm sympathetic to the idea that the pandemic itself was a massive facade, there can never really be a true inquiry because that inquiry would be an unravelling of the system itself.
00:59:53.000It seems extraordinary to me to recognise, one, that we seem to be operating within an intransigent system that is engineered and controlled by As you point out, I was talking about it in another context earlier this week, the truth is another fiat currency.
01:00:16.000It's been so devalued, it's been so Corrupted as to be utterly valueless.
01:00:23.000You know, there's this tired meme all the time on social media about, you know, the truth is a lion and it needs only to be set free and it'll take care of itself, which is, that's great, but no, it's not, because it's self-evident that so much truth is out there.
01:00:37.000That lion If it is a line, has long since been let out of the cage, and it's toothless and clawless.
01:00:47.000You know, you're talking about Epstein.
01:00:50.000You know, the only one person has been jailed for that, and it's one woman, Ghislaine Maxwell.
01:00:58.000And it's clear that there's lists and lists and lists of people who are compromised by whatever it was that Epstein was purveying and providing.
01:01:07.000The truth is out there about so many things.
01:01:10.000I mean, there just this week, you know, that three House committee report, 291 pages long, came out saying that, alleging that Biden, Joe Biden, his family and the family's associates profited to the tune of $27 million for peddling access to him when he was vice president for Barack Obama.
01:01:44.000You need to follow magic arrows on the floors of supermarkets.
01:01:46.000You can only have nine people at a funeral or a wedding or whatever.
01:01:51.000They've come out and said, yeah, yeah, we just made that up.
01:01:54.000People from Pfizer came out and said, well, we didn't test the thing to see if it would stop transmission from person to person, because we weren't asked to.
01:02:01.000So the very idea that it was safe and effective, and that if you didn't take this, you might kill granny, is utterly bogus.
01:02:11.000Those claws and teeth are not tearing apart the lion.
01:02:14.000It's just more lies, more lies, more lies, more lies.
01:02:17.000And that's the dire predicament in which we find ourselves.
01:02:20.000And I think all of it is an inevitable consequence of the lack of meaning, which is also a product of the secularization of Western society that has gone on for two or three centuries, that if there is no meaning, if people have no
01:02:41.000meaning, then inevitably you just end up at the point at which we've arrived, where
01:02:46.000everything is just a commodity, people included.
01:02:49.000And the truth is what the most powerful, the highest bidder says what the truth is.
01:02:55.000And pay attention because it might be different tomorrow.
01:02:57.000You know, I was just thinking, Mehanda, I don't often reflect on the fact that the word annihilation has embedded within it the creation of the conditions of nihilism.
01:03:09.000To truly annihilate is to sort of engender a lack of meaning.
01:03:14.000When we've spoken When I've spoken with Vandana Shiva, she talks continually about this process of desacralisation, that everything is being robbed of its meaning, that there's this desecration and decimation of...
01:03:33.000Meaning he's being sucked out and we're left with sort of a dryness.
01:03:37.000And the sort of gaudy and incredible spectacle of Joe Biden's send-off at the DNC was easily and eerily redolent of the celebrations of boxer in every schoolboy's favourite ball world book, Animal Farm.
01:03:53.000Where the slaughtered proletariat has now got a national holiday named after him.
01:03:59.000And even aside from the fact that he was clearly annexed, nixed and dispatched by his own party, there is the claim that he was a kind of a stalwart of morality, authenticity and decency.
01:04:12.000He was a good and decent man right up to the moment where the world saw him fall apart in that debate.
01:04:16.000They were telling you he was as sharp as a tack.
01:04:19.000And now they're re-rendering him as a sort of old father democracy.
01:04:26.000Now occasionally there are events that I think pierce our collective soul.
01:04:33.000This kind of dampening and slow process of annihilation I think is by its nature de-spiriting.
01:04:40.000One example I think was when that young In our country, in the UK, when that little girl Millie Dowling, was it?
01:04:48.000Hacked her phone and that led to the journalists hacked a dead girl's phone to hear her messages and it meant that her parents felt that she may have still been alive because... Accessing her phone, yeah.
01:04:59.000Because her phone has responded to messages.
01:05:02.000This was sort of led, in this country at least, to an interrogation of the old-school media.
01:05:07.000Well, you know, when Ultima released, some people got paid off and all that.
01:05:10.000And, you know, there were probably, I think, probably great successes for a number of people through the correct judicial channels.
01:05:17.000But what is of note to me is that it meant that the News of the World as a title had to be collapsed.
01:05:22.000Now, probably within the News International Murdoch Empire, they recognized that print media's expiration date Was looming anyway.
01:05:32.000But I wonder if sometimes events occur that prove pivotal and how systems become adept at managing them, as in the example I've just given.
01:05:42.000When something too disgusting and appalling to bear took place with the Millie Dowling phone hacking, they collapsed an entire title.
01:05:50.000Get rid of News of the World, that's the only way that this is going to be handled.
01:05:54.000With something like the murder of the children In Southport and the attacks of the other people at that Taylor Swift party, it led of course to a kind of chaotic response and within that chaos there were many unacceptable acts.
01:06:14.000That's including acts of violence, and my personal perspective when it comes to civil disobedience is that it has to remain non-violent for deep spiritual and moral reasons, yes, and also for tactical reasons, that if you succeed, if you're to succeed, you can't breach those thresholds, or you will ultimately, you will fail.
01:06:33.000Now, people that are more savvy than me will say, well, how would you prevent, if you were part of a movement that was committed to non-violent protest, Deep state agents and actors on the fringes and periphery committing acts of violence as part of that movement in order to corrupt the entire movement and perjure the entire movement.
01:06:51.000We know for example that on January the 6th there were deep state agents from the FBI and from numerous other agencies and presumably it's common practice in most countries.
01:07:01.000I wonder, Neil, if you consider that there could be events that might not lead to fracture and opposition, as the rise in this country did with the attacks on mosques and the attacks on places where, you know, sort of refugees of asylum seekers, but instead a cohesive, deliberate response It seems to me that what you would need would be a re-sacralisation of social spaces.
01:07:26.000A emboldening of the spirit of our kind that probably can't come from nationalism.
01:07:34.000It's probably something much more arcane and deep that needs to be evoked.
01:07:38.000The positive equivalent of the shame that you've referred to that keeps us cold and quiet and cowed.
01:07:45.000It's this power that we have within us that they most fear and it's this power that I wonder if we can somehow access utilizing these technologies in communicative spaces.
01:07:54.000I think what has to be done is to acknowledge the The extreme, the depth of the danger in which we find ourselves.
01:08:06.000I think there comes a point where you can no longer just think, oh it'll be alright, just keep your head down, just keep on going and this'll eventually sort itself out.
01:08:17.000The beginning of something that would make a difference would be in acknowledging that... I mean, I've been saying for as long, any chance I get, that there's an anti-human agenda.
01:08:29.000You know, that all these, you know, Malthusian, eugenicist undertones, overtones to concepts like Agenda 2030, where it's like, save the planet, and in order to get there, we'll have to get rid of, by whatever means, This many billions of people, that if there was any genuine feeling about public health, you know, if Covid had actually been about health, you know, they wouldn't have, you know, they wouldn't have shut the gyms and they wouldn't have, you know, they wouldn't have kept fast food joints open while they would have been pushing vitamin D and they would have been encouraging people to be healthy and to get out and to exercise and get fresher.
01:09:10.000The fact that none of that was prioritised was all you needed to know to see that it wasn't about saving people.
01:09:16.000It was about prosecuting the objective, which was power and money.
01:09:21.000If we could get to the point where we can see that it's not just anti-human, it's anti-humanity.
01:09:29.000I would say the existential threat is real.
01:09:35.000You see it manifest in transhumanism, where we've been invited to think that the human Homo sapiens Mark 1 is suboptimal and needs an upgrade.
01:09:49.000By what circuit board are you going to improve on seven million years of evolution just from the time when we parted company with whatever became chimpanzees?
01:09:59.000And that's not to take into account the billions of years since the emergence of life at all from the primordial soup.
01:10:05.000And yet there's this vanity, this hubris amongst an elite class that thinks that it can do a better job with being human.
01:10:31.000It's not just anti-human, it's anti-humanity.
01:10:33.000And I think part of the solution would be when people finally accept complicit With whatever complicity, shared guilt, all of the rest of it.
01:10:41.000If we don't do something, it's the future of the species itself that's actually at risk.
01:10:47.000And it does, however people might wince at the possibility, I think it is about spirituality.
01:10:56.000I think 300 years of secularism have brought us here.
01:11:01.000And you have to ask yourself, is this where we want to be?
01:11:04.000Because we have undoubtedly got here by dint of secularism.
01:11:09.000Saying that there really is no meaning in anything.
01:11:11.000You know, you're here today and you're gone tomorrow.
01:11:13.000You're three schooled in ten and then that's the end of it.
01:11:17.000And it will be difficult maybe for people, but I know that a lot of people are, you know, re-engaging with a spiritual aspect.
01:11:26.000And I think there's something very profound there that's very, whatever you believe, anything or nothing, if you believe that the law, let's say, or the truth comes from somewhere unreachable, untouchable, inviolate, That it cannot be manipulated, altered, or worked around by us, because it comes from somewhere else that we can't reach.
01:11:53.000And if you make that God, or intelligent, or whatever, but if you just accept that You can't work around the truth and you can't obfuscate and get rid of the law or the truth because you can't get there.
01:12:11.000Then that provokes a different kind of behaviour.
01:12:13.000As soon as you surrender to the idea that well yeah it's all very well to say thou shalt not kill but You know, we've come up with a workaround for that because we want you guys to go over there and kill a lot of them.
01:13:03.000You've conducted it like lightning through a lightning conductor.
01:13:06.000And if people would embrace the idea that we are not the be-all and end-all, that there are profound, fundamental parts of being human and alive, that we are not able to overwrite, rewrite, tweak, adjust and work around, Then I think within that is a fundamental that was understood for millennia, you know, on the road to civilization.
01:13:32.000If you operate in that way, you get to a different destination and I think we need to be somewhere else than where we've arrived at the moment.