Stay Free - Russel Brand - What Happens When You Refuse to Stay Quiet — SF712

00:00:07.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Brand, controversial conspiracy theorist. 0.91

00:00:12.000 Trying to bring real journalism to the American people.

00:00:17.000 Hello there, you awakening wonders.

00:00:18.000 Thanks for joining me today for Stay Free with Russell Brand. 0.95

00:00:20.000 On the show, we've got Carrie Prugin. 0.99

00:00:22.000 You may have seen her before on a bunch of stuff.

00:00:23.000 She's an outspoken Christian Catholic, specifically, who's been cancelled a couple of times, once for her views on same sex marriage, and now she's well outspoken on AIPAC and Israel, and she's really willing to.

00:00:37.000 Go there.

00:00:39.000 In addition to this conversation, I want to let you know that this book, How to Become Christian in Seven Days, is out now. 0.99

00:00:45.000 May take 50 years of sin and serious fuck ups. 0.99

00:00:49.000 Oh, no, I swear. 0.99

00:00:50.000 See, I'm still doing it.

00:00:50.000 To get started.

00:00:51.000 Click the link in the description.

00:00:53.000 Get your copy now.

00:00:56.000 We're going to go straight to this interview.

00:00:58.000 If you're watching us anywhere other than Rumble or Rumble Premium, get Rumble Premium now and join us over here on a platform that supports us and supports free speech in general.

00:01:06.000 And that's no small thing these days.

00:01:07.000 Here's me and Carrie Prugian.

00:01:09.000 Check it out.

00:01:12.000 Carrie, thanks very much for joining us.

00:01:14.000 It's really lovely to speak to someone who's in faith right now.

00:01:18.000 Thank you for having me.

00:01:20.000 You dealt with a lot of controversy, you've been cancelled, you've dealt with a lot of intensity.

00:01:27.000 I suppose that means that we're in Romans 13, aren't we?

00:01:33.000 We're meant to obey the state and the system, unless the state and the system conflict directly.

00:01:40.000 With following Christ.

00:01:43.000 That was preached on at the church I go to this past weekend, to quote the name of one of my favorite podcasts.

00:01:52.000 And I said to the pastor afterwards, don't you think our whole culture exists in that margin right now?

00:01:58.000 Almost the whole culture is, except for where it doesn't, except for where it contradicts the teachings of Christ or the word of God, say.

00:02:12.000 So, like, it sounds like your life and your walk has brought you into odds with that.

00:02:17.000 And I'm starting to feel that maybe that's going to be part of my path.

00:02:21.000 So, where do you see that as most significant?

00:02:24.000 And do you agree with that premise?

00:02:27.000 Yeah.

00:02:28.000 You know, I've been in this fight for almost 20 years now.

00:02:31.000 You know, I don't think a lot of people remember, but I was Miss California in 2009. 0.94

00:02:37.000 And I dared to say that my opinion is I didn't believe in gay marriage.

00:02:44.000 And I said, I believe marriage is one man and one woman.

00:02:47.000 And obviously, when you do that at a large scale, on a public platform, in front of millions of people, I think that was a big test for me.

00:02:57.000 And I think that I passed the test in the Lord's eyes, obviously.

00:03:00.000 But I was only 21 years old.

00:03:02.000 So Donald Trump owned the pageant.

00:03:04.000 And that was when it started.

00:03:07.000 I was really, Russell, I was really one of the first to be canceled.

00:03:10.000 And so I say now, you ain't cool unless you're canceled because I've been canceled twice now.

00:03:17.000 And I'll tell you what, I take it as a badge of honor because it means that I'm actually doing something right.

00:03:22.000 And it means that I'm actually standing against evil when they try to cancel you.

00:03:26.000 But it's been very difficult, I'll be honest.

00:03:29.000 It's been hard.

00:03:31.000 And I was canceled at 21, and now I'm 38 years old, and I'm a mom and a wife.

00:03:37.000 But I'm still standing.

00:03:38.000 I'm still fighting, and I'll never give up.

00:03:42.000 One of my teachers said that when they were doing police work, when they came out of a hot situation, they'd say to each other, We're still alive, okay?

00:03:49.000 We're still alive.

00:03:50.000 You're alive, right?

00:03:51.000 I think that's how we've got to do it.

00:03:51.000 I'm alive.

00:03:53.000 Like, I really feel like that these days that I'm in a spiritual war and I reckon I'm not doing it perfectly.

00:03:59.000 I can sort of really see my errors.

00:04:01.000 I can see my errors real clearly.

00:04:03.000 I'm making a lot.

00:04:05.000 I wonder then, what was the next time that you were canceled, may I ask Carrie?

00:04:13.000 So, the next time I was canceled was pretty recent.

00:04:16.000 So, I served on the Religious Liberty Commission.

00:04:19.000 So, I thought that I was being selected to protect religious freedom here in America.

00:04:26.000 And I spoke out against the definition of anti Semitism.

00:04:31.000 So, the hearing was on anti Semitism.

00:04:34.000 And I just couldn't continue until we define.

00:04:38.000 And really, who gets to define the word anti Semitism?

00:04:42.000 And so I was pushing back and I said, Is anti Zionism anti Semitism?

00:04:48.000 Which we all know Zionism is a political ideology. 0.66

00:04:52.000 I have every right not to be a Zionist. 0.65

00:04:54.000 I'm not a Zionist. 0.97

00:04:56.000 And they said, Yes, if you're an anti Zionist, you're a hateful bigot. 0.99

00:05:01.000 You are an anti Semite. 1.00

00:05:02.000 You're a Jew hater. 0.99

00:05:04.000 And so it's just, I've been down this road before, Russell. 0.96

00:05:07.000 I'm sure you've, you know, recently been down this road too.

00:05:10.000 It's like, They try to put you in this box and they try to just slam the door and close it and then cancel you, smear you, label you, and throw away the key.

00:05:20.000 And I am not going to allow that to happen.

00:05:23.000 So I'm pushing back and I'm saying, I am not a hater of any kind.

00:05:27.000 I don't even entertain that idea.

00:05:29.000 As a Christian, as a Catholic, I love all people, but I will tell you right now, I do not support the political state of Israel.

00:05:36.000 And that does not make me a Jew hater.

00:05:38.000 That makes me a proud pro life Catholic.

00:05:42.000 And we have a duty if we call ourselves Christians.

00:05:44.000 To speak out against the evil that we're seeing in Israel and the genocide that they are committing against the Palestinians. 0.54

00:05:52.000 You live then in that area that I've, like, the one thing that I read in the Bible that I thought, well, I'd like to take that out was when I got to Romans 13, when it was saying stuff like, you know, obey the government.

00:05:52.000 Right.

00:06:06.000 And I was like, I don't like this.

00:06:07.000 I don't like this at all.

00:06:08.000 You know, and I've been trying to find loopholes ever since.

00:06:12.000 Now, one of the good loopholes I found was like that Paul was likely in chains when he wrote it and certainly spent a lot of time.

00:06:19.000 In chains.

00:06:21.000 But see what you're saying there.

00:06:24.000 Do you find it hard to, in both of those issues that have led to controversy in your life and challenges in your life?

00:06:34.000 And I reckon, in a sense, I applaud your bravery, even though I've got a lot of questions to ask when it comes to sexual conduct, say.

00:06:43.000 Like, I'm really trying to work that out at the moment because I feel like there's so much stuff about sexual immorality and I really am learning a great deal about it.

00:06:53.000 Right.

00:06:53.000 And I want to stay in a place of love when talking about other people's identity and other people's, you know, their identity in Christ fundamentally.

00:07:01.000 That's what I sort of want to believe in mostly.

00:07:04.000 And prioritizing my own duty to be non judgmental over other people's fallenness because I know I've got enough fallenness of my own.

00:07:14.000 That's for sure.

00:07:14.000 We all do.

00:07:15.000 Yeah, we all do.

00:07:16.000 And so I wonder how you managed that in the first issue, the 2009 issue.

00:07:21.000 And then when it comes to, I really liked what you said, the political state of.

00:07:26.000 Israel, because I suppose one of the great challenges of talking about politics these days is the conflation of a political entity with a religious entity, a historical and a theological entity with a contemporary militarily expansionist entity.

00:07:43.000 All of those, there's a lot of questions to be asked.

00:07:45.000 But for you, you were on a kind of free speech governmental White House committee that was like, we've all got to make sure we commit to free speech.

00:07:54.000 And then you, somehow, surely knowing in your heart of hearts, you were stepping in a different direction.

00:07:59.000 Terrain said, I'd like to challenge you all on what you mean by anti Semitism.

00:08:02.000 Is that how your current challenge began?

00:08:06.000 Yeah, you know, I was selected by President Donald J. Trump, and he selected me along with 12 other incredible, you know, very important people on this commission.

00:08:16.000 And I had a duty.

00:08:18.000 I had a duty to stand up for people of not only my faith, but people of all faiths.

00:08:24.000 And so I wasn't going to sit there and allow them to define a word that, well, really, they didn't want to define the word.

00:08:33.000 They just said, if you are against the political state of Israel, you're a Jew hater. 0.96

00:08:38.000 And that should have been the story. 0.90

00:08:40.000 I think everyone should have been speaking out against that.

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00:10:07.000 Obviously, that's crazy.

00:10:08.000 That's insane.

00:10:10.000 That you would say if you're, that'd be like saying if you're against MAGA, then you're, uh, you know, an anti-Christian.

00:10:16.000 I mean, it doesn't even make sense, but that's the box, that's the box that they want to put you in.

00:10:21.000 And so they want to make it so that if you're critical of the state of Israel, you therefore are now a hater, a hater of Jewish people.

00:10:29.000 And I reject that.

00:10:30.000 In fact, I requested four Jewish American, um, witnesses to speak at that hearing.

00:10:35.000 One of them, Norm, Norm Finkelstein, which who better than him, um, to speak on this, on this matter of anti-Semitism.

00:10:42.000 I even, uh, requested a Jewish rabbi who he and I have become great friends. 0.70

00:10:46.000 In fact, he came out recently and said, I've been fighting against Zionism for 40 years.

00:10:50.000 What does that make me?

00:10:51.000 A rabbi is now an anti-Semite?

00:10:54.000 And I read his statement from the stage and the people speaking that day, they said, yes, that this Jewish rabbi is an anti-Semite.

00:11:01.000 So that's where this is going. 0.85

00:11:02.000 It's, it's crazy.

00:11:03.000 It's insane.

00:11:04.000 And they're just throwing around words.

00:11:06.000 And unfortunately, Russell, if everyone's an anti-Semite, no one's an anti-Semite.

00:11:09.000 Just like if everyone's a racist, no one's a racist.

00:11:12.000 Um, if everyone's a bigot, no one's a bigot.

00:11:14.000 And that's really sad.

00:11:17.000 And a lot of Jewish people are speaking out against this, and we have a duty to do that because words matter.

00:11:23.000 How far did you get in that hearing, and where do you think the conversation is currently with the conflation of anti Semitism and, as you describe it, objections to the actions of the political state of Israel, which is obviously a position that a lot of people share now?

00:11:47.000 Yeah, I think anyone under the age of 60 does not support Israel.

00:11:51.000 I mean, they tried to get us to believe that God's chosen people are the 1948 state of Israel.

00:11:58.000 We all know if you're theologically literate, you know that that's crazy and that's not true. 0.84

00:12:04.000 But they've been pushing that theological perspective, especially these Christian Zionists that serve in our government.

00:12:12.000 They believe the Paula Whites, the Ted Cruises, the Mike Huckabees, they believe that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. 0.93

00:12:20.000 Therefore, we must bless Bibi's bombs. 0.52

00:12:22.000 We must bless Bibi at all costs because he's God's chosen person. 0.84

00:12:27.000 Ordained by God, I guess, according to these theological heretics, in my opinion.

00:12:34.000 But once you start pushing back, you realize that most people are not pro Israel anymore. 0.72

00:12:40.000 And I am very grateful that people are speaking out because it takes that. 0.94

00:12:45.000 It takes more and more people to speak out and push back against this because it's wrong.

00:12:51.000 And I will not stand for it.

00:12:52.000 We in the United States, we have our First Amendment rights, we have our religious freedom, and this theological supremacy, we have to stand up against it because our founders did not intend for.

00:13:02.000 There to be one specific denomination of Christianity.

00:13:05.000 We are founded on a Christian nation, but it wasn't one denomination.

00:13:08.000 And so we're seeing this theological supremacy overtaking our government.

00:13:14.000 And that's where I have to stand up and speak out because I have two kids and I don't want to leave them a country where they don't have their First Amendment or their religious freedom.

00:13:23.000 How do you think it is we find ourselves in this position where it sounds like you're characterizing the way that the current administration is? 0.86

00:13:32.000 Utilizing Christianity is sort of unconstitutional and not spiritually righteous, certainly.

00:13:40.000 How do you feel that that's happening under someone that, based on what I've heard you say so far, Andy, in other interviews and other public materials about yours and available that I've seen, happening under like a person that you and a president that I imagine you still admire?

00:13:59.000 And isn't it sort of kind of surprising that MAGA and Trump is leading to.

00:14:05.000 Something that I feel that many people thought might be exactly what Trump would protect America and Americans and people of the world in some ways from.

00:14:17.000 Yeah, it really makes me sad.

00:14:19.000 I honestly feel, I was telling someone the other day, Russell, that I feel like it's sort of like a divorce.

00:14:24.000 You know, you believed in this person, you trusted them.

00:14:28.000 For me, it was 20 years I supported this president.

00:14:31.000 I lost friends.

00:14:32.000 I wore that red Make America Great Again hat proudly when it wasn't safe, when it wasn't popular.

00:14:38.000 I lost, you know, Um, money from it.

00:14:40.000 I lost business from it, but I stood by this, this man because I believed in him and I believe that he wanted to make America great again.

00:14:48.000 And he was going to put the American people first.

00:14:51.000 And then all of a sudden he completely betrayed us and completely, um, betrayed MAGA really, which is make America great again. 0.56

00:15:00.000 And he is putting a foreign country before his own people, unfortunately.

00:15:05.000 And I think people are realizing that now.

00:15:06.000 And it's, it makes me sad.

00:15:08.000 Like I'm not angry about it.

00:15:10.000 I was angry at first, but now I've accepted it that he is not the man that we elected.

00:15:15.000 I don't know what's going on with him.

00:15:16.000 I don't know if he's blackmailed.

00:15:17.000 I don't know if he's fully compromised, what's going on.

00:15:21.000 But this is not the Donald Trump that we all voted for.

00:15:24.000 He promised us no foreign wars.

00:15:27.000 And we're seeing now that really Bibi Netanyahu is who's really running our country, in my opinion.

00:15:33.000 Do you wonder then if this illustrates a position that I had?

00:15:40.000 Before becoming Christian and before coming to live primarily in your country, and really before I had any right to make such assumptions, that political power is ultimately controlled by institutions that are not visible or accessible through the means and methods of democracy.

00:16:03.000 Your dog just walked past then.

00:16:04.000 I don't want to get too distracted, but just so that people know the level of autism.

00:16:09.000 And observation that I operate at.

00:16:11.000 If your dog walks past in the corner of frame, that will stop me asking questions about global imperialism.

00:16:17.000 He just there went down the corridor.

00:16:18.000 It sort of looked like a labradoodle to me or a cockapoodle or one of those kind of things.

00:16:22.000 It looked like a kind of hybrid hound.

00:16:24.000 Anyway, my point is this like, don't, like, if Trump, with all of his idiosyncrasy and all of his brilliant bluster and his individualism and his fortitude and his ability to confront and drain swamps and say, well, I was taking advantage of the very same tax loopholes and you think we don't kill people and all that stuff that made us. 0.95

00:16:43.000 Or feel like, oh man, whether you like this guy or not, he's a wrecking ball in the sort of glass houses of these stone throwing liars.

00:16:53.000 Now it seems like, oh wow, even that amount of individualism and variety can be accommodated within a global system that's long clearly been in control of the most powerful nations in the world.

00:17:05.000 And then, Carrie, as a Christian, don't you think that when it talks biblically about the world being in the thrall of the evil one, he is the prince of this world, he's in control.

00:17:17.000 Do you feel that this is just evidence of that, that powerful individuals, charismatic or otherwise, unless they introduce significant systemic change, are going to end up getting involved in foreign wars, whether their name's Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, Gavin Newsom, JD Vance?

00:17:35.000 Pick a name.

00:17:35.000 That's the way.

00:17:36.000 And indeed, how can you have a nation or an institution or a force like America, and America since its ascendancy over the British Empire, which sometimes I wonder if the true power.

00:17:48.000 Sort of moves like a ghost.

00:17:50.000 We've got this place in the UK, the city of London, right in the middle of London proper, that can't, you can't, is not subject to the rules of the rest of the country.

00:17:59.000 It's got different tax laws.

00:18:00.000 It's got dragons at all of the points where you enter it.

00:18:04.000 It's like a really weird kind of place.

00:18:06.000 Anyway, I wonder if there are sort of a second set of institutions, whether they're obvious in plain sight bureaucracies like the WHO or the IMF or whatever, or even more occult than that, that.

00:18:20.000 You know, even just to have a Henry Kissinger style America where you have 20 year plans and 30 year plans, you couldn't have that sort of stuff disrupted by elections, could you?

00:18:30.000 So, were we not all mad to think that anyone, Trump or anyone, could do anything other than what these empires do, regardless of who leads them?

00:18:42.000 Yeah.

00:18:42.000 I mean, I mean, you look at like the White House today posted a picture of the king of England and him and Trump, and it said two kings.

00:18:51.000 And it's like, that's not funny.

00:18:53.000 Like, To me, as an American, I know Trump wants to be king, but he's not king, and Christ is king.

00:19:00.000 And so it's funny because at that hearing, when I spoke about anti Semitism, I brought up, and this is very, very important.

00:19:07.000 So, I don't know if you're aware, but under the IHRA definition of anti Semitism, it says that if you say that the Jews killed Jesus, which is in scripture, which is in Holy Scripture, sacred scripture, that is actually anti Semitic.

00:19:24.000 So, where this is going, and it's scary, and I want people to understand this free speech in the US is dwindling because they want to make it so that if you say Christ is king or the Jews killed Jesus, You will be labeled anti-Semitic and where this is going to go.

00:19:44.000 I don't know.

00:19:44.000 I don't, I don't know if people, if they're going to be police coming and knocking on people's doors, um, because they're saying things that go against the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.

00:19:54.000 But that's where this is really, really scary.

00:19:56.000 And back to your point that you made earlier, you know, Trump ran on draining the swamp.

00:20:01.000 I'm going to drain the swamp.

00:20:02.000 And there's all these, you know, corrupt politicians and in DC.

00:20:06.000 And he used to laugh.

00:20:07.000 I don't know if you remember, but he would laugh and call little Marco.

00:20:11.000 Rubio, you know, little Marco and Lion Ted, and all these people who were not MAGA are now all of a sudden his best friends.

00:20:19.000 And they're standing right beside him.

00:20:20.000 You got Laura Loomer, you got Mark Levin, you have all these never Trumpers are now all of a sudden the face of MAGA.

00:20:27.000 And you have people like Tucker Carlson, who I was just on his show, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens.

00:20:33.000 You have all of his most loyal supporters from the very beginning.

00:20:38.000 Marjorie Taylor Greene are now considered the enemy of MAGA.

00:20:44.000 I have a big problem with that.

00:20:46.000 And so now we're seeing that there is this divide.

00:20:49.000 I mean, I think MAG is dead, in my opinion.

00:20:51.000 I think MAGA is dead.

00:20:53.000 I think MAG is dead.

00:20:54.000 And really, moving forward to save this country, we are going to have to elect people who are not bought and paid for.

00:21:00.000 I mean, truly, that's what Trump made fun of these politicians for.

00:21:03.000 He would say, Marco Rubio is bought and paid for.

00:21:05.000 All these politicians are bought and paid for.

00:21:07.000 But what we're realizing is that once he took the 230 million from Miriam Adelson, things changed.

00:21:14.000 And that's politics.

00:21:16.000 And it's unfortunate.

00:21:16.000 And so we really need AIPAC out of our government, in my opinion.

00:21:20.000 So nobody running for nobody that's going to be winning another election.

00:21:25.000 I won't be voting for anyone that takes money from AIPAC moving forward.

00:21:28.000 Well, I mean, do you like MAGA?

00:21:32.000 I started to think this, and I don't want to be cynical because what's the point?

00:21:35.000 Where does that get any of us?

00:21:37.000 But like, and I really, really love Bobby Kennedy a great deal.

00:21:40.000 I think he's an amazing person.

00:21:43.000 But do we not, in a way, think that MAGA and Maha are campaign entities?

00:21:49.000 That fulfills a purpose to galvanise people for an election.

00:21:54.000 And then once elections are done, the business of government begins and the business as usual, it appears to be.

00:22:05.000 And in a way, even though it is bold of you to say in public, you know, get rid of APAC, I wonder, Carrie, if we're not willing to say, don't have anyone making donations ever or lobbying and.

00:22:24.000 Maximize subsidiarity, empower the states maximally, and each state should empower towns and communities, and each town and community should empower the individual, and then we should have a democracy worthy of the founding fathers.

00:22:39.000 And that kind of anti Second Amendment argument that people often use oh, well, if they'd known about the firearms that you have these days, semi automatic ARs and this, that, and the other, you know, they would have passed different laws and made different amendments.

00:22:55.000 Yeah, you're right.

00:22:56.000 I think sometimes that we have a technology that means we could have a democracy that's much more candid, transparent, open, mobile, and agile.

00:23:07.000 So, if we're going to have conversations about how a very, what do I want to say, kind of fascinating and exciting political figure like Donald Trump is ultimately being sort of inured and castrated in office, why are we not then looking really seriously at what the systemic problems are?

00:23:28.000 Recognizing that it's obviously the ability of non governmental institutions to influence policy, whether that's AIPAC, as you have said, and as Thomas Massey's been saying for as long as he's out of mouth, as far as I can tell.

00:23:41.000 And all of, but like, why stop there?

00:23:43.000 Why stop there?

00:23:45.000 Why not say if we're going to meaningfully change America or the world, we have to start practicing what we preach and instituting real democracy maximally and investigating and interrogating this system in a way that actually.

00:24:03.000 Offers change.

00:24:05.000 I think most people in your country, if there was a yes no referendum on war with Iran or no war with Iran, people might press no.

00:24:13.000 So we don't have a democracy anyway.

00:24:16.000 Certainly, as you've already observed, my country is absolutely out of control. 0.96

00:24:20.000 Crazy.

00:24:21.000 Like, you don't even, like, you can't even tell.

00:24:23.000 I mean, when you're there, it's still nice.

00:24:24.000 People are still British and fantastic and lovely.

00:24:27.000 But you certainly don't feel like, oh, the British people are very happy with the way things are going.

00:24:32.000 It's like actually a land of dismal despair with not even.

00:24:37.000 I don't think that because we live now, you might say, in the beginning of the post Trump era.

00:24:42.000 And by post Trump, I mean even the optimism engendered by his ascent among those that adore him.

00:24:50.000 And that ascent was accompanied with a good deal of loathing, let's face it, and division.

00:24:55.000 All the people that didn't want Trump are saying, We told you, we told you, World War III.

00:24:59.000 So my point, finally, is to say, Don't you think we should be advocating for real change and outlining what that is and to start with something like get money altogether out?

00:25:12.000 Politics in when solving all of these issues as best we can, as much as possible.

00:25:16.000 Should that be what we're doing?

00:25:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:20.000 I think that it's really sad how, when you want to run for office, you know, you see people going in and thinking, okay, I want to run for office because I want to give back.

00:25:29.000 I want to, you know, help my country.

00:25:31.000 I want to make things better.

00:25:32.000 I don't just want to complain.

00:25:33.000 I want to do something about it.

00:25:35.000 And then it's almost like once they get in, they're given a choice.

00:25:40.000 You know, it's a choice between like selling their soul or risk not even getting elected.

00:25:47.000 And what we're seeing now is there's so many powers at play.

00:25:50.000 Like, for instance, we'll just take APAC, for example.

00:25:52.000 If you don't take money from APAC or if you criticize APAC, they will run campaign, like campaigns against you.

00:26:00.000 They will fundraise.

00:26:01.000 They will literally try to destroy you.

00:26:03.000 And so a lot of politicians are like, I don't want to deal with it.

00:26:06.000 I'll just take money and sell my soul.

00:26:09.000 Therefore, look what happens.

00:26:12.000 You know, I think everyone other than Thomas Massey and just a couple others are the ones that are not You know, taking money from APAC.

00:26:19.000 And I just met with Thomas Massey and I love him.

00:26:22.000 And I know he has an election coming up and I hope everybody votes for him. 0.62

00:26:25.000 But there's a real, you know, risk that he's taking by saying, no, I'm not going to take money from a foreign country. 0.94

00:26:31.000 And we shouldn't allow that.

00:26:33.000 You know, look at JFK.

00:26:34.000 He wanted to have APAC register under FARA.

00:26:37.000 And then look what happened to him.

00:26:39.000 So it's very real.

00:26:40.000 It's very serious.

00:26:43.000 And now finally, we're able to talk about it.

00:26:46.000 Maybe five years ago, 10 years ago, you couldn't talk about it.

00:26:49.000 You would be told to shut up. 0.98

00:26:50.000 You're an anti Semite. 1.00

00:26:52.000 Put you in your box and slam the door. 0.99

00:26:54.000 But now we're seeing that, you know, we see people like James Fishback, Thomas Massey, Dan Blitzserian, I think that's his name.

00:27:02.000 He, you know, not vowing not to take any money from APAC.

00:27:06.000 So now we're seeing candidates that are standing up against this big monster that's really trying to destroy our country, in my opinion.

00:27:15.000 You think that that's the one, huh?

00:27:17.000 You think that's the one.

00:27:18.000 You don't think there's like a global imperialist thing that's to you, I'm European, how you know this about me.

00:27:24.000 I'm English, in fact, specifically.

00:27:26.000 You don't think that there's a kind of a, My references are from like literature, autodidacts that I am.

00:27:33.000 Like, part Orwell 1984, a boot stamping on a human face, centralized control, big brother, ahistorical, rewriting it as we go.

00:27:43.000 Part Aldous Huxley, i.e., it's a kind of a Steve Jobs aesthetic.

00:27:48.000 Everything kind of looks nice and sanitary.

00:27:51.000 iPhones and things are sort of neat, and at least on the surface, kind of well branded and logos, and it's all sort of super rational.

00:27:59.000 And we're here to help.

00:28:00.000 You, we're here to care for you, and then the only non British writer of the free Franz Kafka, who a Czech writer who sort of felt the horror that's in bureaucracy like the bureaucracy is inhuman.

00:28:16.000 I noticed when I've been doing this recent round of press that the building, one in particular, where I did that Piers Morgan interview, was in the Associated Press building downtown New York, and I noticed that it was exactly the same type of building as News International's building in London, UK.

00:28:32.000 I mean, the turnstiles that you show your lanyard or your pass at, that there are no people, that there are no windows in the upper floors, at least.

00:28:40.000 The lobby area, I think, may have had windows.

00:28:43.000 But an eerie and inhuman feeling is in there.

00:28:47.000 When you call an elevator, like I suppose you get this regularly in big buildings, but you can't call the elevator yourself, you're summoned up from the floor.

00:28:54.000 There are no buttons.

00:28:55.000 And when you reach the floor itself, windowless.

00:28:58.000 And this being the Associated Press, they proudly show those photographs as if it's Man Ray or something that the AP have acquired over the years.

00:29:06.000 And firstly, me as a person that's worshipped the culture for a long time, I see those images and think, ah, prestigious images.

00:29:13.000 But when you actually look, it's like that famous, I think it's a Cambodian or Vietnamese guy getting shot in the head at point-blank range, and you can see the impact of the bullet, famous picture, most people know it.

00:29:23.000 Or other images of war and violence.

00:29:25.000 And you realize that bureaucracy presents itself as neutral, but it's the kind of neutrality that's always present in sin, certainly in the Greek definition, a kind of neutrality that's waiting to be infused by evil.

00:29:37.000 And this system that presents itself to us as kind of neutral always migrates through managerialism and bureaucracy to a kind of evil principle that's prevailing in this world.

00:29:48.000 And I find it very interesting that C.S. Lewis, when he depicts the realm of the devils and the demons and the tempters in his book, The Screwtape Layers, which is super funny, of course, that they are members of a bureaucracy, of in fact interconnected bureaucracies.

00:30:05.000 Because what do bureaucracies do?

00:30:06.000 They strip away our Humanness, our humanity.

00:30:09.000 They turn everything.

00:30:10.000 And what is it like when, just on a personal level, you're on the phone to your service provider or your Wi Fi network or whatever?

00:30:17.000 I'm sorry, hold please.

00:30:18.000 You know, firstly, you'll be dealing with machines for a long, long time.

00:30:21.000 And if you eventually get a human, it's a human with no power.

00:30:24.000 What's it like at the TSA?

00:30:26.000 No one's got no power.

00:30:28.000 We're being denied and stripped of our humanity.

00:30:31.000 It's pervasive.

00:30:32.000 It's down at the molecular granular level of our lives and it's right at the heart of our lives.

00:30:37.000 We are living.

00:30:38.000 In a simulation of the world, a counterfeit world.

00:30:42.000 This isn't the America that your founding fathers intended, where people are communicating with one another.

00:30:47.000 Then democracy could be.

00:30:49.000 What is it you people want?

00:30:50.000 You want this, do you?

00:30:51.000 Well, okay, I don't think, I think you might be wrong, but it's what you voted for.

00:30:55.000 You know, like that, that's not being offered.

00:30:57.000 No one, not the Democrats, not the Republicans.

00:31:00.000 And now we know for a fact, not even populist MAGA under a charismatic and exciting leader are offering anything other than you can mess around with the ornaments on the surface while we get on with the business of power.

00:31:14.000 Now, the people that I know from the liberal left, they are saying, oh no, look, Peter Thiel and Larry Ellison, they're instituting technocratic centralized control.

00:31:23.000 There'll never be another free election.

00:31:24.000 And then the people on the right, Before.

00:31:26.000 Oh no, the Democrats and Joe Biden and Dominion voting machines, they're going to control us through technology like never before.

00:31:33.000 And isn't it becoming clear, dear Carrie, that these ghosts that pass through, President this, President that, however bombastic they are, or innocuous and decrepit like the previous incumbent, it doesn't matter.

00:31:49.000 There's a machine, a very powerful machine, and it can only be opposed by Christ, the Christ in us, the Emmanuel Christ.

00:31:57.000 And I think that sort of pulls something so deep from us.

00:32:01.000 That most people have been switched off.

00:32:03.000 I see that in the world.

00:32:04.000 Most people are dead in sin already.

00:32:06.000 They're already switched off.

00:32:07.000 Their life's over.

00:32:08.000 They're going to their grave.

00:32:10.000 And a lot of them don't want to be woke up, it seems to me.

00:32:13.000 It seems to me too.

00:32:15.000 So, firstly, Dan, isn't it our job to be bold in our rhetoric?

00:32:21.000 Oh, yeah, that was my original question 100 years ago when I started talking you think that Israel and Israel's financial interest is the bullseye in the middle of all this.

00:32:32.000 And I know you're not alone in thinking that.

00:32:34.000 Because I. I'm not sure.

00:32:36.000 I reckon you're right about AIPAC, and there's no question.

00:32:39.000 I'm not going to try and do things that you can do better than me.

00:32:41.000 But, like, do you think that's the one you take that one out, everything improves?

00:32:45.000 Or do you think it's because I sort of think it might be more insidious and deeper than that and beyond that?

00:32:50.000 Well, I say we start with that.

00:32:52.000 Let's just start with that and see how things go.

00:32:56.000 You know, we have people.

00:32:58.000 I live in San Diego, California.

00:33:00.000 Where do you live, Russell?

00:33:02.000 Florida Panhandle.

00:33:05.000 Oh, you're in Florida.

00:33:06.000 Okay.

00:33:07.000 So I live in California.

00:33:09.000 And I don't know about Florida, but here, our state is really suffering.

00:33:13.000 You have people that cannot afford anything.

00:33:16.000 You have college students that aren't getting jobs as soon as they graduate.

00:33:20.000 They're going to college getting degrees in gender studies and ridiculous things that aren't even going to give them an opportunity to make money and succeed in life, financially at least.

00:33:31.000 You have homeless people.

00:33:32.000 San Diego downtown is completely, you can't even go down there.

00:33:36.000 I mean, the restaurants have closed.

00:33:39.000 It's, it's really, really sad.

00:33:41.000 And I'm born and raised here.

00:33:42.000 I'm born and raised in San Diego.

00:33:44.000 And I look around and I say, Oh my goodness.

00:33:47.000 We have veterans that can't even afford, you know, health insurance.

00:33:52.000 Everything costs a gazillion dollars.

00:33:54.000 But yet here we are giving all this money to a foreign country and we get nothing in return.

00:34:01.000 In fact, we get, we get bad things in return. 0.52

00:34:04.000 We get wars in return. 0.70

00:34:06.000 We literally are in this war with Iran on behalf of Israel. 0.75

00:34:10.000 Everybody knows that by now.

00:34:11.000 We had no business going there. 0.74

00:34:14.000 And because Bibi wanted it, Bibi got it. 0.90

00:34:16.000 So let's just start with there. 0.89

00:34:18.000 I'm open minded, okay? 0.92

00:34:19.000 Let's start with defunding Israel and let's see where things go in America. 0.88

00:34:25.000 Let's start with that. 0.83

00:34:26.000 Let's see if our country improves or gets worse.

00:34:29.000 Because what I'm seeing now is a lot of money going there, and those people in Israel, they live great.

00:34:35.000 They have free health care.

00:34:37.000 They have their, you know, everything's free there.

00:34:40.000 They're taken care of.

00:34:41.000 There's no homelessness.

00:34:44.000 So you look at the two and you go, wait a second, we were promised to make America great again, right?

00:34:50.000 The forgotten man and woman.

00:34:51.000 Trump ran on that.

00:34:52.000 I'm going to think of you, the forgotten man and woman of this country, the blue collared worker.

00:34:58.000 How are their lives improving?

00:35:01.000 I don't see it.

00:35:01.000 I don't see it in California.

00:35:03.000 Well, yeah, I hear you. 0.95

00:35:05.000 When you have that conversation or make those points, you said when you had that hearing about the definition of anti Semitism, like rabbis and prominent Jewish intellectuals or public figures or whatever, how do you, like, how, In the instance of the ones you know, how are they dealing with what you just said then about like, we should defund Israel?

00:35:26.000 How, how are they, how are they? 0.99

00:35:28.000 They agree.

00:35:29.000 They agree.

00:35:30.000 They 100% agree.

00:35:32.000 And they've been saying that for 40 years.

00:35:33.000 In fact, the Jewish rabbi who's become a friend of mine, we talk regularly and he said, Carrie, I, we are in exile.

00:35:41.000 That Orthodox Jews believe that they are in exile right now and that they are not supposed to be brought back to that land. 0.77

00:35:47.000 And so he's, imagine him, a Jewish rabbi that's been preaching this for 40 years.

00:35:52.000 And then it takes this, you know, outspoken Catholic woman at a hearing to finally get the world's attention about it. 0.68

00:35:58.000 I mean, he's grateful for it, but, um, yeah, he's against it.

00:36:02.000 You know, he, but he said, he'll say to your face that he thinks that it's a racist, um, you know, um, extremist, terrorist, uh, organization, the, the Israeli government and what they're doing to the Palestinian people and how they operate.

00:36:17.000 I mean, I don't know if you've been seeing these things that have been coming out of Gaza.

00:36:20.000 I mean, it is horrific.

00:36:22.000 And yet you see pro-life Christians here in the U.S. silent, because they know that as soon as you speak out, if you dare to speak out against that, against the Israeli government, they know that you're done.

00:36:35.000 You're done.

00:36:35.000 You will be canceled.

00:36:36.000 You'll be labeled an anti-Semite and you'll be kicked off of everything.

00:36:41.000 And that's why more people have to speak out because this is wrong.

00:36:45.000 It's absolutely wrong.

00:36:46.000 And what I've realized as a Catholic is that it's theological. 0.93

00:36:50.000 You know, these Christian Zionists and I'm willing to speak out against my own faith as, you know, these Christian Zionists believe that this is A biblical prophecy, like I said earlier, coming to fruition. 0.95

00:37:02.000 That 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. 0.96

00:37:06.000 And it's wrong. 0.65

00:37:06.000 And for 2,000 years, the church has never taught that. 0.65

00:37:09.000 And yet we're allowing this new idea, this bad theology, to literally overtake our government and our country.

00:37:17.000 And it has deadly consequences.

00:37:19.000 And as soon as you speak out and criticize the government of Israel, you're labeled a Jew hater. 0.92

00:37:25.000 That's the goal. 0.91

00:37:26.000 Because they know what happens.

00:37:27.000 They know what happens when you're labeled that.

00:37:29.000 You're canceled.

00:37:31.000 You're done. 0.54

00:37:32.000 You can't get a job in Hollywood if you criticize, you know, Zionism.

00:37:36.000 You can't.

00:37:37.000 Everybody knows it.

00:37:38.000 And so everybody's quiet.

00:37:39.000 And I thought we were free here in the United States.

00:37:41.000 But what I'm realizing is we're really not.

00:37:43.000 We're really not that free, unfortunately.

00:37:46.000 But we have our First Amendment rights.

00:37:48.000 And so it takes people like me, people like you who are speaking out and standing up, people like Tucker Carlson, you know, and saying, wait a second.

00:37:56.000 I'm not a hater of anyone.

00:37:58.000 I just don't want people being killed.

00:38:00.000 I just don't want innocent people being killed.

00:38:02.000 And that doesn't make me a hater.

00:38:03.000 In fact, it makes me a lover of people.

00:38:06.000 It makes me a compassionate Christian to say, wait a second, innocent human life is being taken at the hands of a government that we're funding and we have to be okay with it because some Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee told me that they're God's chosen people.

00:38:21.000 Therefore, we have to bless the bombs that they're putting on the Iranian all-girl school.

00:38:27.000 What? 1.00

00:38:29.000 So, um, yeah, we have a duty.

00:38:31.000 We have a duty as Christians to speak out, especially as Catholics because this is not what the church has taught for 2,000 years. 0.93

00:38:38.000 I wonder more broadly what the position of a Christian is when dealing with non Christians. 0.97

00:38:48.000 You know, look, I mean, it's interesting because what you've just described there, like we should start there with the APAC and this is the position. 0.57

00:38:55.000 And man, like the recent post October the seventh phase of this ongoing, deeply historic complex beginning in 1948, but you know, because I suppose one could say historically going back a lot further, this has been.

00:39:10.000 Yeah, definitely before that.

00:39:12.000 Yeah.

00:39:13.000 Like the challenge has been that coming into this contentious.

00:39:19.000 Urgent space of online conversation that seems to create a lot of fragmentation and fracture everywhere, bringing almost the ultimate issue when it comes to creating division, when it comes to creating censorship, when it comes to creating hatred and confusion, and that unique flavor of irresoluble, irresolubility, if such a word could be possible, something that could never be resolved.

00:39:47.000 That's the feeling I have.

00:39:49.000 And a kind of an exhaustion.

00:39:50.000 And it's happened at a point in my own life where, you know, like for the previous years, I've been very focused on trying my best to tell the truth online, tell the truth online, tell the truth online, do your best, come up with stuff, commentate.

00:40:03.000 And, but because I've been dealing with so many contentious and difficult things personally, I felt like, oh man, I don't, this is heavy.

00:40:11.000 And anything, you know, like that gets into devastation, genocide, dead children, all of that, you, it's a, there's a kind of, What I want to say, you can only really call it a lack of courage in the end, and I mean that in the literal sense heart, like the heart, the heart, and the belly are gone.

00:40:30.000 You know, it's been like I had some interesting and very interesting personal challenges last few years, is how I would put it, and some pretty radical changes.

00:40:40.000 And so, it's been like this issue, which is obviously the dominant and defining issue of our time, or at least is the window, the sort of into it, because where it leads is, how hold on, what is real power?

00:40:52.000 Is going on?

00:40:53.000 What are you allowed to say?

00:40:54.000 What are you not allowed to say?

00:40:55.000 But let's face it, before October the 7th, things were exacerbating pretty nice anyway.

00:41:00.000 People were worried about free speech.

00:41:02.000 People were worried about corruption, hypocrisy, all of the sort of things we generally worry about and get concerned about were hot in right up.

00:41:09.000 And I feel this is going to take us pretty close to the brink, maybe even to it.

00:41:12.000 Maybe this is the end times indeed.

00:41:14.000 But like, I guess as a new Christian, Carrie, what I've been thinking about and trying to understand, because I'm reading these books now, I'm reading the Old Testament, I'm reading the New Testament, I've been around once or twice, one and a half times, or sometimes I skip.

00:41:25.000 Bits of numbers or little bits when it gets like double boring, you know, like the lists of begats sometimes, or very long instructions of how to build a temple.

00:41:33.000 Sometimes I'm like, Oh, come on, I get the idea.

00:41:35.000 Cubits. 0.62

00:41:36.000 Like, it seems that the tension between the Jewish people and the Christianity that emerges from it is, of course, some of Paul's letters are describing those tensions. 0.98

00:41:52.000 The book of Acts is describing those tensions. 0.69

00:41:55.000 And of course, the gospels are describing the climactic.

00:42:00.000 The climactic departure that the crucifixion and resurrection represents.

00:42:05.000 And of course, the Christian position is that Christ is God personified.

00:42:10.000 And it may be, and I wonder where you stand on this, that any personification of Christ in the Old Testament, excuse me, any personification of God in the Old Testament is Christ, whether that's a burning bush or the appearances in prophetic visions of Ezekiel or Daniel or obviously the servant songs late in Isaiah, that this is all our Lord being.

00:42:34.000 Prophesied, and I know that I heard recently that no, because the Jewish Messiah has very, very specific Davidic and sort of I don't know, theological there's bullet points of like, unless he does that, that, and that, that ain't the Messiah.

00:42:50.000 And I think some of them are like, the temple's got to be reestablished, and the people have all got to get back together.

00:42:56.000 And you know, I don't remember that's not something I've been super hyper focused on, but like, I see the book that you know of Revelations that the Grafting back on of the branch, you know, the grafting back on of the branch and some kind of reconciliation.

00:43:11.000 And if, as Christians, we believe that Christ is the Messiah, and surely that's the central point, then there is something kind of pivotal and difficult to reconcile specifically between people of Jewish faith and Christians.

00:43:30.000 So, how does one ever sublimate that? 0.92

00:43:35.000 Obvious conflict.

00:43:39.000 Yeah.

00:43:41.000 The way I would answer it is there is one covenant that the old covenant has been fulfilled by the new.

00:43:48.000 Jesus in Matthew, you know, predicted the destroying of the temple, and it actually happened in 70 AD.

00:43:57.000 So he said, Not one stone will be left untouched.

00:44:00.000 And look what happened in 70 AD, the temple was destroyed, the veil was torn in two, and we are seeing now that the new covenant is open.

00:44:10.000 We're open to anyone coming into that new covenant. 0.61

00:44:12.000 You could be Jewish.

00:44:14.000 You can be Christian.

00:44:15.000 You can be whatever you want.

00:44:17.000 But coming into that new covenant, you must come in by faith.

00:44:21.000 So you must come in.

00:44:23.000 Once you come into that new covenant by faith in Christ, you're in.

00:44:27.000 You're in.

00:44:28.000 And we believe as Catholics that we are the new Israel, that we are the fulfillment, that Christ fulfilled the old law.

00:44:35.000 Um, and now there is one covenant in Christ through faith in Christ.

00:44:40.000 And it's, it's very simple. 0.81

00:44:41.000 And I'm, I, I feel sad for the Jewish people that they think that there is this dual covenant.

00:44:46.000 Even Christian Zionists believe that there's this dual covenant, a dual way to, you know, to heaven and to God and that there's one path for the Jews and one path for the Christians.

00:44:56.000 And it's just, it's just nonsense. 0.61

00:44:58.000 Um, there's one covenant through Christ and it's by faith.

00:45:00.000 And so all are welcome into that.

00:45:02.000 And so it's, it's a beautiful thing when you see Jewish, Jewish people convert to Christianity.

00:45:07.000 And, um, I encourage more and more people to go out there and try to make disciples and get more people to, To come into the faith and to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, He is our Savior, He is King over all, and the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

00:45:25.000 So, it doesn't make us anything hater, it just makes us Christians.

00:45:32.000 And so, I reject anybody that's trying to put labels on us as Christians and to deny the truth that Christ is, in fact, King, He is the Messiah, He is God incarnate.

00:45:42.000 And those who are in Christ are in that new covenant, and we welcome all.

00:45:47.000 Oh, that was beautiful.

00:45:47.000 It was really good hearing that.

00:45:48.000 I felt like a relief.

00:45:49.000 That's like some of the nicest stuff I've heard for days and days.

00:45:52.000 It was really a real balm to hear you say those things.

00:45:54.000 Thank you.

00:45:56.000 Can I say this?

00:45:57.000 I've got some friends that are gay that love Jesus, a few actually.

00:46:04.000 And I'm trying to understand this.

00:46:07.000 Like, you know, your 2009 was about marriage, and I see marriage is a particular thing.

00:46:13.000 You know, I understand that.

00:46:15.000 I understand that.

00:46:16.000 Now, and also from my own reading, I'm looking at how much censure there is around immorality, sexual immorality. 0.99

00:46:27.000 And, like, I myself, gosh, fornicator, promiscuous, idolater, I can see even in a scriptural sense. 0.83

00:46:37.000 Now, like, do you, what I wonder and what I sometimes feel is that this is a very broad generalization, obviously, and it's actually not particularly being applied to Catholics, actually. 0.96

00:46:51.000 I'm thinking more what I'm experiencing of Christianity living in America right now, is that there's a particular interest.

00:47:01.000 In same sex relationships, that I would characterize as a little bit prurient, a little bit, ooh, a little bit sort of an intrigue that's unconscious. 0.62

00:47:12.000 Whereas I feel, and this is just my stuff, I can't back this up with scripture, certainly not yet, that all sexual immorality is under the same deal. 0.73

00:47:22.000 Like, that's it.

00:47:23.000 Don't do anything except that.

00:47:25.000 And what I really want to understand, Carrie, and I want your help with, is I would like to be able to say to.

00:47:33.000 People that are same, well, what I am saying in my own conversations, right, just to let you know where I'm at the moment, I'm like, I can't see how a same sex couple living together and loving one another is significantly different than a heterosexual couple.

00:47:51.000 Like, see, me, I'm married and that.

00:47:53.000 It's not like Eros is the very center of my marriage 10 years in.

00:47:57.000 You know, that's not what it's all really about, huh?

00:48:00.000 We love one another.

00:48:02.000 And I get the impression from certain, from a particular, Woman that I'm talking to, I go, I asked her outright how much of your relationship with your partner is about sex, really?

00:48:12.000 And she's not really that much.

00:48:13.000 We love each other and we're with one another.

00:48:16.000 When it gets to that, you know, like people that are living honorably with one another, that love one another, rather than making sexuality the apex of your identity, which I did for a long time, sex, my sexuality.

00:48:29.000 And you could even say about a very macho guy or even you as an ultra feminine looking woman.

00:48:35.000 I don't know what you're like on the inside, but.

00:48:36.000 You know, you're identifying, it looks like, with being a beautiful woman.

00:48:40.000 So, what do we, what do you have to, tell me about that?

00:48:44.000 Because I want to feel that the love and the compassion.

00:48:47.000 And I try and think, you know, whether it's the, look at the two issues we're discussing today same sex relationships and Israel.

00:48:53.000 If you imagine him here, or have faith in him here, I don't know, of course, what he would say or what he would do.

00:48:59.000 I just sort of have a feeling of what it would feel like, like loving acceptance.

00:49:04.000 And I sort of have the feeling that he would put himself right with the people that were most marginalized.

00:49:09.000 And most maligned by whatever we consider to be the Pharisaic class of our time.

00:49:15.000 And I suppose that's the most powerful cultural voices.

00:49:17.000 And in your country and in mine, that sort of shifts a little bit.

00:49:20.000 It shifts around.

00:49:21.000 But so, yeah, I guess it's not really a question, but I've said a load of things and I just wonder what you think.

00:49:26.000 Well, I would like to ask you, you know, when people, because remember during 2009, the whole gay marriage thing, people would say, well, love is love.

00:49:33.000 Love is love.

00:49:34.000 You know, you should be able to just marry who you love, right?

00:49:36.000 I think that's what you would say, right?

00:49:38.000 Is that your stance?

00:49:40.000 Well, I'm not sure about marriage because you could say that marriage itself.

00:49:44.000 Is like a very particular thing, maybe.

00:49:46.000 But yes, I would not.

00:49:48.000 Okay, let's go with that.

00:49:51.000 I wouldn't want people that love each other, that are living good lives, to feel like they are somehow unacceptable to Christ.

00:50:00.000 I don't like that feeling very much.

00:50:04.000 Okay, I understand that. 1.00

00:50:06.000 But the way that I would look at it is okay, let's just talk gay marriage.

00:50:10.000 So marriage is a sacrament.

00:50:12.000 Are you Catholic?

00:50:13.000 I don't know.

00:50:14.000 Are you Catholic?

00:50:15.000 I wasn't sure coming into the.

00:50:17.000 I'm doing rosaries and I love it.

00:50:19.000 I love the Holy Mother and I love the saints, but I've not become Catholic.

00:50:24.000 I think mainly because they wouldn't let me be Pope one day, even though at the moment I do have other priorities to deal with ahead of the fact that I can never be Pope.

00:50:36.000 So I'm not going to be Pope.

00:50:38.000 So, what do you consider yourself?

00:50:40.000 I consider myself that I want to be so, he must become greater, I must become lesser.

00:50:45.000 I want to die on the cross so that he can be reborn in me.

00:50:49.000 I want nothing between me and him.

00:50:52.000 Oh, that's beautiful.

00:50:53.000 I'm so happy for you.

00:50:55.000 I'm very, very happy for you.

00:50:56.000 What I would say is, Is, you know, hearing this love is love.

00:51:01.000 We have to define the terms.

00:51:02.000 We have to define the terms because if I love a man and a woman, say I love both, why can't I marry both?

00:51:13.000 Well, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

00:51:17.000 Like, I don't see that that's as a favorable position.

00:51:21.000 I don't like agree really with bigamy and polygamy or anything where it's, because this is what I'm identifying as the challenge.

00:51:28.000 Have no other gods before me.

00:51:30.000 That's what I'm sort of, what I'm recognizing as the sort of, Theological problem is that if you put your pleasure ahead of God, then that is not cool.

00:51:40.000 But I feel like there are so many people that are just in the church having the time of their lives condemning same sex attracted people or gay people.

00:51:49.000 I feel like, well, you know, we're in plank spec territory, you know, like in terms of get that plank out your eye.

00:51:58.000 Well, no, I just think when you really love someone, when you really, really love them, you want what's good for them.

00:52:03.000 And I think that seeing, seeing a society, I mean, throughout the history of the world, uh, societies are built on men and women and coming together.

00:52:14.000 God created male and female perfectly to be together.

00:52:18.000 I mean, you look at Genesis, you can't deny that. 0.75

00:52:20.000 And so to say, well, I think God now would, is a liar.

00:52:24.000 And I think that he wants two men to be together.

00:52:27.000 And that's the ideal relationship.

00:52:29.000 I think would be a lie.

00:52:30.000 And I think that when you really love someone, you, you shouldn't lie to them.

00:52:34.000 And you shouldn't just say, yeah, you can get married because we, as Christians, at least as a Catholic, I believe marriage is a sacrament, you know, a sacrament by God.

00:52:44.000 And it is a man and a woman.

00:52:47.000 And you could call it whatever you want to call it, but it doesn't redefine holy matrimony.

00:52:53.000 That is sacred.

00:52:55.000 I agree with that, too.

00:52:56.000 I definitely agree that marriage is a sacrament.

00:52:57.000 But also, this is like that America is not, you know, there's Christianity in its foundation.

00:53:04.000 But I don't think that any countries are living in alignment with the principles of God and living in a sacrament.

00:53:09.000 Sacramental, holy.

00:53:11.000 I don't think that's the kind of societies that we're living in at all.

00:53:15.000 So, we should be.

00:53:17.000 We should be.

00:53:18.000 It would help our country.

00:53:19.000 Yes.

00:53:20.000 And I feel like that threshold, and I'm not talking about decadence or hedonism or promiscuity or infatuation with sexual identity.

00:53:29.000 Indeed, a person's sexual identity should not be at the apex of who they believe themselves to be, regardless that your identity is who you are in Him, fearfully and wonderfully made.

00:53:41.000 When Peter recognizes.

00:53:43.000 That he is God, God recognizes who he is and gives him his name.

00:53:49.000 I recognize that, that, I get it, and it makes sense to me.

00:53:52.000 But you can't take that.

00:53:55.000 Yes, but you can't take that part and then forget that part.

00:53:59.000 Like, you have to have all of it.

00:54:00.000 You can't just be like, okay, I just want the Jesus that tells me that he just wants me happy.

00:54:06.000 Like, I hear that from Christians a lot.

00:54:08.000 Like, oh, Jesus just wants me happy and peaceful. 0.50

00:54:12.000 And, you know, I just, you know, I just want the Jesus, the hippie Jesus that gives me everything I want.

00:54:18.000 All of the desires of my heart.

00:54:20.000 Like, no, I struggle with anger.

00:54:22.000 I struggle with a lack of temper.

00:54:27.000 I have a temper, you know?

00:54:28.000 And so I struggle with that.

00:54:29.000 That's sinful.

00:54:31.000 And so I can't just be like, oh, I'm just going to go around being angry all the time and living in that sin of, you know?

00:54:39.000 But what I'm trying to say about the sexual stuff is you can't say, you know, one thing about, okay, I believe this part of the Bible, but I don't believe this.

00:54:48.000 You know, we see in Genesis, it's very simple God created male and female.

00:54:52.000 Yeah, how do you argue with that?

00:54:55.000 I'm thinking about it this way.

00:54:56.000 I'm saying, like, I'm thinking about it this way.

00:54:57.000 You know, he created them in his image, he created them male and female, he created them. 0.84

00:55:02.000 I like that because that sort of suggests that God's image contains both maleness and femaleness. 0.80

00:55:08.000 God's image is beyond that, it's beyond it because Adam's in his image, Eve's in his image, male and female, he created them in his image, he created them. 0.71

00:55:17.000 I like that.

00:55:18.000 I like how sort of mystical that starts to become and outside of our framework as human beings.

00:55:23.000 You didn't want Adam to be alone.

00:55:25.000 He didn't want Adam to be alone.

00:55:26.000 So he created Eve for Adam to be the helpmate, to be the partner.

00:55:32.000 And so I don't know how anyone can justify and say that God now changes mind and that men and men can be together.

00:55:42.000 I don't understand that.

00:55:44.000 Well, in a way, I'm not trying to discount any scripture.

00:55:51.000 I'm just actually much too early in my relationship with the word to even begin that kind of stuff.

00:55:51.000 I'm not trying to.

00:55:58.000 What I'm actually trying to Do is sort of triage, actually, Carrie, a kind of a triage of the like.

00:56:05.000 I don't think Christ's like, hey, I just want you to be happy.

00:56:07.000 No, I think Christ wants you to die unto the world and be reborn in Him and repent, and nothing should get in your way of being an absolute expression of Christ.

00:56:18.000 And when you fall, you're going to need to turn to other Christians or in order to be held up and to be in community for us to collectively represent what He, you know, and, you know, the marriage of.

00:56:30.000 As a sacrament, and by your definition of a man and woman, be a representation of his relationship with us collectively.

00:56:38.000 But what I suppose.

00:56:39.000 Well, and his relationship to the church, which is the bride, the bride of Christ.

00:56:44.000 I like that.

00:56:45.000 I like that.

00:56:46.000 And again, I'm not trying to say I pick this and I don't pick that.

00:56:49.000 What I'm trying to, I suppose, say is that I feel that the love of him has to be paramount.

00:56:56.000 Like, love God with all your heart, love one another as I have loved you, as I have loved you.

00:57:02.000 And I feel that in that.

00:57:04.000 Charge, you know, listen, it's not something I can really level at you because you have chosen it seems as your priority as a Christian woman. 0.96

00:57:13.000 I want to deal with this APAC issue. 0.75

00:57:15.000 That's no small issue.

00:57:17.000 That's no small issue for a person to choose as the hill they're going to die on, you know.

00:57:23.000 But what I'm saying is, the question I'm trying to ask is, what should be, as loving Christians, how do we not, like, I sense, do you think it's reasonable?

00:57:35.000 Do you accept what I'm asserting? 0.99

00:57:38.000 I sense that people are prioritizing censure around same sex over some guy jerking off the whole time over porn. 0.97

00:57:48.000 And I think them things both need some attention because anything where you're not fully giving yourself over to God is where you're personally going wrong. 0.93

00:58:00.000 And I also think that, you know, and I'm talking about the words of Christ rather than the broader book and the letters of Paul, et cetera.

00:58:07.000 It's so urgent, it's so clear that what he wants us to do is.

00:58:12.000 Be in the kingdom.

00:58:13.000 The kingdom is all about us.

00:58:15.000 We are in him, he is in us.

00:58:16.000 Like, I'm talking about some John stuff.

00:58:19.000 But, like, do, yeah, my question is do you think there's an undue prioritization around same sex relationships rather than sexual immorality in a broader sense, which includes heterosexual immorality, pornography, all of the other things?

00:58:33.000 Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's wrong.

00:58:35.000 I do.

00:58:36.000 I think that pornography is completely destroying our men, especially our young men.

00:58:42.000 And it's truly evil, I believe.

00:58:47.000 And it's handcuffed.

00:58:49.000 It's handcuffed so many of our men.

00:58:50.000 It's destroying marriages.

00:58:52.000 I know many couples who, um, it's been the reason of their divorce.

00:58:56.000 Um, and it's, it's really, really wrong.

00:58:59.000 And unfortunately, it's legal here in the United States.

00:59:03.000 Um, and so, you know, a lot of men are, are slaves to it.

00:59:07.000 They're not free men.

00:59:08.000 They're complete slaves to pornography.

00:59:10.000 And I, I condemn it.

00:59:12.000 I do.

00:59:13.000 Um, but I also think that we have to address, you know, sin as a whole.

00:59:16.000 I mean, like you said earlier, there's, there's a lot of sin.

00:59:19.000 There's heterosexuals that are living in sin currently. 0.91

00:59:22.000 Sex before marriage is a sin. 0.99

00:59:24.000 Um, not just, you know, in my, in, in what I believe, you know, homosexuality is a sin.

00:59:28.000 Um, you can disagree with that, but, um, you know, I just think that we have to do a better job of just calling out sin. 0.88

00:59:35.000 And that's really the goal is to get people, like you said, to repent.

00:59:40.000 And, and thank God that we as Catholics, we have the, the sacrament of confession.

00:59:44.000 So we get to go to a priest and be able to lay it all out there and confess our sins.

00:59:50.000 My husband was just confirmed last weekend and he had his first confession.

00:59:54.000 I said, how was it?

00:59:55.000 And it was like a weight lifted off of him, you know, to have that sacrament of confession.

00:59:59.000 And you look in the Bible and you see that Jesus told his apostles, you know, whatever sins you are for, you forgive are forgiven.

01:00:06.000 And basically whatever sins are, you don't forgive are not forgiven.

01:00:10.000 So, um, people like to say, oh, it's not in the Bible that you, you know, can confess your sins to a, to a priest.

01:00:16.000 Well, yeah, it is.

01:00:17.000 It's, it's the succession of the apostles that give us, give them that authority.

01:00:22.000 And so with that sacrament of confession, you know, you're, the weight is lifted off and that you're free from that sin.

01:00:28.000 And then maybe the priest tells you in your penance, you know, hey, check in with me next week and make sure that you're not watching that on the internet or you're not, you know, committing adultery or whatever that is, you know, it's sin and it separates us from God.

01:00:41.000 And if more people realize that, that when you're living in mortal sin, you are not with God.

01:00:47.000 And so to have that reconciliation is a beautiful gift.

01:00:51.000 And I think if more people had that, they would try to live holy lives.

01:00:54.000 And that's really the goal.

01:00:56.000 I tell my kids every day on the way to school, I'm like, what are you striving for today?

01:01:00.000 Holiness, holiness, you know, and we're going to fail, we're going to fail, but just to strive for that.

01:01:06.000 And Christ is the example of it.

01:01:07.000 And just because something feels good doesn't make it good, doesn't make it right.

01:01:11.000 You know, just because I want to go around being angry at everybody, that doesn't make it right.

01:01:15.000 It's still sinful. 0.93

01:01:17.000 And we have to be, you know, recognize our sins, whether that's living, you know, in a homosexual lifestyle or committing adultery, watching pornography, being angry, being, you know, lustful, whatever that is. 0.98

01:01:31.000 It's sin and it keeps us from God and it keeps us from living holy lives. 0.75

01:01:36.000 I think the real hero is your husband who's managed to presumably stay married to you up to this point and only convert to Catholicism a week or so ago.

01:01:46.000 Because I can see you're a woman who can handle an argument and you admitted to the temper and the anger.

01:01:51.000 So he's done very well to withstand before yielding.

01:01:58.000 It's funny, I just converted to Catholicism last year. 0.57

01:02:02.000 Oh, I see you confirmed.

01:02:03.000 Yeah, this is what it's like, huh?

01:02:04.000 Like, people just come in, like me, like, I became Christian two years ago.

01:02:07.000 And then, sort of, after that, I'm like, oh, how can everyone not understand that Jesus is actually real?

01:02:12.000 How can they not get this yet?

01:02:14.000 And like, it's like, well, remember two years ago, you, oh, yeah, that.

01:02:18.000 You know, that's all that's, you know, I have a good reference for it.

01:02:21.000 Hey, Carrie, thank you.

01:02:23.000 You've really put some complicated things over very, very well and helped me to understand my own faith and my own challenges as well as what seems to be an extraordinarily complex political matter defining geopolitics right now.

01:02:36.000 Thanks for your bravery.

01:02:36.000 Thanks for this conversation and thanks for your time today.

01:02:39.000 Thank you and congratulations on becoming a Christian.

01:02:42.000 It's better, isn't it?

01:02:43.000 It's better, isn't it?

01:02:44.000 We've got somewhere to go now, eternity.

01:02:47.000 Yes.

01:02:48.000 Amen.

01:02:49.000 Stay in touch and let us know if we can do anything for you ever.

01:02:53.000 You too.

01:02:53.000 Thank you, Russell.

01:02:54.000 God bless you.

01:02:54.000 Thank you, Carrie.

01:02:55.000 God bless you.

01:02:56.000 Thank you.

01:02:59.000 Well, thanks very much for joining us for that conversation.

01:03:01.000 We will be back next time, not for more of the same, but for more of the different.

01:03:05.000 Until then, if you can, stay free.

Stay Free - Russel Brand - May 04, 2026

What Happens When You Refuse to Stay Quiet — SF712

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