00:00:22.000You may have seen her before on a bunch of stuff.
00:00:23.000She's an outspoken Christian Catholic, specifically, who's been cancelled a couple of times, once for her views on same sex marriage, and now she's well outspoken on AIPAC and Israel, and she's really willing to.
00:00:56.000We're going to go straight to this interview.
00:00:58.000If you're watching us anywhere other than Rumble or Rumble Premium, get Rumble Premium now and join us over here on a platform that supports us and supports free speech in general.
00:02:28.000You know, I've been in this fight for almost 20 years now.
00:02:31.000You know, I don't think a lot of people remember, but I was Miss California in 2009.
00:02:37.000And I dared to say that my opinion is I didn't believe in gay marriage.
00:02:44.000And I said, I believe marriage is one man and one woman.
00:02:47.000And obviously, when you do that at a large scale, on a public platform, in front of millions of people, I think that was a big test for me.
00:02:57.000And I think that I passed the test in the Lord's eyes, obviously.
00:03:38.000I'm still fighting, and I'll never give up.
00:03:42.000One of my teachers said that when they were doing police work, when they came out of a hot situation, they'd say to each other, We're still alive, okay?
00:05:04.000And so it's just, I've been down this road before, Russell.
00:05:07.000I'm sure you've, you know, recently been down this road too.
00:05:10.000It's like, They try to put you in this box and they try to just slam the door and close it and then cancel you, smear you, label you, and throw away the key.
00:05:20.000And I am not going to allow that to happen.
00:05:23.000So I'm pushing back and I'm saying, I am not a hater of any kind.
00:05:29.000As a Christian, as a Catholic, I love all people, but I will tell you right now, I do not support the political state of Israel.
00:05:36.000And that does not make me a Jew hater.
00:05:38.000That makes me a proud pro life Catholic.
00:05:42.000And we have a duty if we call ourselves Christians.
00:05:44.000To speak out against the evil that we're seeing in Israel and the genocide that they are committing against the Palestinians.
00:05:52.000You live then in that area that I've, like, the one thing that I read in the Bible that I thought, well, I'd like to take that out was when I got to Romans 13, when it was saying stuff like, you know, obey the government.
00:06:24.000Do you find it hard to, in both of those issues that have led to controversy in your life and challenges in your life?
00:06:34.000And I reckon, in a sense, I applaud your bravery, even though I've got a lot of questions to ask when it comes to sexual conduct, say.
00:06:43.000Like, I'm really trying to work that out at the moment because I feel like there's so much stuff about sexual immorality and I really am learning a great deal about it.
00:06:53.000And I want to stay in a place of love when talking about other people's identity and other people's, you know, their identity in Christ fundamentally.
00:07:01.000That's what I sort of want to believe in mostly.
00:07:04.000And prioritizing my own duty to be non judgmental over other people's fallenness because I know I've got enough fallenness of my own.
00:07:16.000And so I wonder how you managed that in the first issue, the 2009 issue.
00:07:21.000And then when it comes to, I really liked what you said, the political state of.
00:07:26.000Israel, because I suppose one of the great challenges of talking about politics these days is the conflation of a political entity with a religious entity, a historical and a theological entity with a contemporary militarily expansionist entity.
00:07:43.000All of those, there's a lot of questions to be asked.
00:07:45.000But for you, you were on a kind of free speech governmental White House committee that was like, we've all got to make sure we commit to free speech.
00:07:54.000And then you, somehow, surely knowing in your heart of hearts, you were stepping in a different direction.
00:07:59.000Terrain said, I'd like to challenge you all on what you mean by anti Semitism.
00:08:02.000Is that how your current challenge began?
00:08:06.000Yeah, you know, I was selected by President Donald J. Trump, and he selected me along with 12 other incredible, you know, very important people on this commission.
00:11:17.000And a lot of Jewish people are speaking out against this, and we have a duty to do that because words matter.
00:11:23.000How far did you get in that hearing, and where do you think the conversation is currently with the conflation of anti Semitism and, as you describe it, objections to the actions of the political state of Israel, which is obviously a position that a lot of people share now?
00:11:47.000Yeah, I think anyone under the age of 60 does not support Israel.
00:11:51.000I mean, they tried to get us to believe that God's chosen people are the 1948 state of Israel.
00:11:58.000We all know if you're theologically literate, you know that that's crazy and that's not true.
00:12:04.000But they've been pushing that theological perspective, especially these Christian Zionists that serve in our government.
00:12:12.000They believe the Paula Whites, the Ted Cruises, the Mike Huckabees, they believe that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled.
00:12:20.000Therefore, we must bless Bibi's bombs.
00:12:22.000We must bless Bibi at all costs because he's God's chosen person.
00:12:27.000Ordained by God, I guess, according to these theological heretics, in my opinion.
00:12:34.000But once you start pushing back, you realize that most people are not pro Israel anymore.
00:12:40.000And I am very grateful that people are speaking out because it takes that.
00:12:45.000It takes more and more people to speak out and push back against this because it's wrong.
00:12:52.000We in the United States, we have our First Amendment rights, we have our religious freedom, and this theological supremacy, we have to stand up against it because our founders did not intend for.
00:13:02.000There to be one specific denomination of Christianity.
00:13:05.000We are founded on a Christian nation, but it wasn't one denomination.
00:13:08.000And so we're seeing this theological supremacy overtaking our government.
00:13:14.000And that's where I have to stand up and speak out because I have two kids and I don't want to leave them a country where they don't have their First Amendment or their religious freedom.
00:13:23.000How do you think it is we find ourselves in this position where it sounds like you're characterizing the way that the current administration is?
00:13:32.000Utilizing Christianity is sort of unconstitutional and not spiritually righteous, certainly.
00:13:40.000How do you feel that that's happening under someone that, based on what I've heard you say so far, Andy, in other interviews and other public materials about yours and available that I've seen, happening under like a person that you and a president that I imagine you still admire?
00:13:59.000And isn't it sort of kind of surprising that MAGA and Trump is leading to.
00:14:05.000Something that I feel that many people thought might be exactly what Trump would protect America and Americans and people of the world in some ways from.
00:15:27.000And we're seeing now that really Bibi Netanyahu is who's really running our country, in my opinion.
00:15:33.000Do you wonder then if this illustrates a position that I had?
00:15:40.000Before becoming Christian and before coming to live primarily in your country, and really before I had any right to make such assumptions, that political power is ultimately controlled by institutions that are not visible or accessible through the means and methods of democracy.
00:16:18.000It sort of looked like a labradoodle to me or a cockapoodle or one of those kind of things.
00:16:22.000It looked like a kind of hybrid hound.
00:16:24.000Anyway, my point is this like, don't, like, if Trump, with all of his idiosyncrasy and all of his brilliant bluster and his individualism and his fortitude and his ability to confront and drain swamps and say, well, I was taking advantage of the very same tax loopholes and you think we don't kill people and all that stuff that made us.
00:16:43.000Or feel like, oh man, whether you like this guy or not, he's a wrecking ball in the sort of glass houses of these stone throwing liars.
00:16:53.000Now it seems like, oh wow, even that amount of individualism and variety can be accommodated within a global system that's long clearly been in control of the most powerful nations in the world.
00:17:05.000And then, Carrie, as a Christian, don't you think that when it talks biblically about the world being in the thrall of the evil one, he is the prince of this world, he's in control.
00:17:17.000Do you feel that this is just evidence of that, that powerful individuals, charismatic or otherwise, unless they introduce significant systemic change, are going to end up getting involved in foreign wars, whether their name's Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, Gavin Newsom, JD Vance?
00:17:36.000And indeed, how can you have a nation or an institution or a force like America, and America since its ascendancy over the British Empire, which sometimes I wonder if the true power.
00:17:50.000We've got this place in the UK, the city of London, right in the middle of London proper, that can't, you can't, is not subject to the rules of the rest of the country.
00:18:00.000It's got dragons at all of the points where you enter it.
00:18:04.000It's like a really weird kind of place.
00:18:06.000Anyway, I wonder if there are sort of a second set of institutions, whether they're obvious in plain sight bureaucracies like the WHO or the IMF or whatever, or even more occult than that, that.
00:18:20.000You know, even just to have a Henry Kissinger style America where you have 20 year plans and 30 year plans, you couldn't have that sort of stuff disrupted by elections, could you?
00:18:30.000So, were we not all mad to think that anyone, Trump or anyone, could do anything other than what these empires do, regardless of who leads them?
00:18:53.000Like, To me, as an American, I know Trump wants to be king, but he's not king, and Christ is king.
00:19:00.000And so it's funny because at that hearing, when I spoke about anti Semitism, I brought up, and this is very, very important.
00:19:07.000So, I don't know if you're aware, but under the IHRA definition of anti Semitism, it says that if you say that the Jews killed Jesus, which is in scripture, which is in Holy Scripture, sacred scripture, that is actually anti Semitic.
00:19:24.000So, where this is going, and it's scary, and I want people to understand this free speech in the US is dwindling because they want to make it so that if you say Christ is king or the Jews killed Jesus, You will be labeled anti-Semitic and where this is going to go.
00:19:44.000I don't, I don't know if people, if they're going to be police coming and knocking on people's doors, um, because they're saying things that go against the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism.
00:19:54.000But that's where this is really, really scary.
00:19:56.000And back to your point that you made earlier, you know, Trump ran on draining the swamp.
00:21:43.000But do we not, in a way, think that MAGA and Maha are campaign entities?
00:21:49.000That fulfills a purpose to galvanise people for an election.
00:21:54.000And then once elections are done, the business of government begins and the business as usual, it appears to be.
00:22:05.000And in a way, even though it is bold of you to say in public, you know, get rid of APAC, I wonder, Carrie, if we're not willing to say, don't have anyone making donations ever or lobbying and.
00:22:24.000Maximize subsidiarity, empower the states maximally, and each state should empower towns and communities, and each town and community should empower the individual, and then we should have a democracy worthy of the founding fathers.
00:22:39.000And that kind of anti Second Amendment argument that people often use oh, well, if they'd known about the firearms that you have these days, semi automatic ARs and this, that, and the other, you know, they would have passed different laws and made different amendments.
00:22:56.000I think sometimes that we have a technology that means we could have a democracy that's much more candid, transparent, open, mobile, and agile.
00:23:07.000So, if we're going to have conversations about how a very, what do I want to say, kind of fascinating and exciting political figure like Donald Trump is ultimately being sort of inured and castrated in office, why are we not then looking really seriously at what the systemic problems are?
00:23:28.000Recognizing that it's obviously the ability of non governmental institutions to influence policy, whether that's AIPAC, as you have said, and as Thomas Massey's been saying for as long as he's out of mouth, as far as I can tell.
00:23:45.000Why not say if we're going to meaningfully change America or the world, we have to start practicing what we preach and instituting real democracy maximally and investigating and interrogating this system in a way that actually.
00:24:21.000Like, you don't even, like, you can't even tell.
00:24:23.000I mean, when you're there, it's still nice.
00:24:24.000People are still British and fantastic and lovely.
00:24:27.000But you certainly don't feel like, oh, the British people are very happy with the way things are going.
00:24:32.000It's like actually a land of dismal despair with not even.
00:24:37.000I don't think that because we live now, you might say, in the beginning of the post Trump era.
00:24:42.000And by post Trump, I mean even the optimism engendered by his ascent among those that adore him.
00:24:50.000And that ascent was accompanied with a good deal of loathing, let's face it, and division.
00:24:55.000All the people that didn't want Trump are saying, We told you, we told you, World War III.
00:24:59.000So my point, finally, is to say, Don't you think we should be advocating for real change and outlining what that is and to start with something like get money altogether out?
00:25:12.000Politics in when solving all of these issues as best we can, as much as possible.
00:25:20.000I think that it's really sad how, when you want to run for office, you know, you see people going in and thinking, okay, I want to run for office because I want to give back.
00:28:00.000You, we're here to care for you, and then the only non British writer of the free Franz Kafka, who a Czech writer who sort of felt the horror that's in bureaucracy like the bureaucracy is inhuman.
00:28:16.000I noticed when I've been doing this recent round of press that the building, one in particular, where I did that Piers Morgan interview, was in the Associated Press building downtown New York, and I noticed that it was exactly the same type of building as News International's building in London, UK.
00:28:32.000I mean, the turnstiles that you show your lanyard or your pass at, that there are no people, that there are no windows in the upper floors, at least.
00:28:40.000The lobby area, I think, may have had windows.
00:28:43.000But an eerie and inhuman feeling is in there.
00:28:47.000When you call an elevator, like I suppose you get this regularly in big buildings, but you can't call the elevator yourself, you're summoned up from the floor.
00:28:55.000And when you reach the floor itself, windowless.
00:28:58.000And this being the Associated Press, they proudly show those photographs as if it's Man Ray or something that the AP have acquired over the years.
00:29:06.000And firstly, me as a person that's worshipped the culture for a long time, I see those images and think, ah, prestigious images.
00:29:13.000But when you actually look, it's like that famous, I think it's a Cambodian or Vietnamese guy getting shot in the head at point-blank range, and you can see the impact of the bullet, famous picture, most people know it.
00:29:25.000And you realize that bureaucracy presents itself as neutral, but it's the kind of neutrality that's always present in sin, certainly in the Greek definition, a kind of neutrality that's waiting to be infused by evil.
00:29:37.000And this system that presents itself to us as kind of neutral always migrates through managerialism and bureaucracy to a kind of evil principle that's prevailing in this world.
00:29:48.000And I find it very interesting that C.S. Lewis, when he depicts the realm of the devils and the demons and the tempters in his book, The Screwtape Layers, which is super funny, of course, that they are members of a bureaucracy, of in fact interconnected bureaucracies.
00:30:51.000Well, okay, I don't think, I think you might be wrong, but it's what you voted for.
00:30:55.000You know, like that, that's not being offered.
00:30:57.000No one, not the Democrats, not the Republicans.
00:31:00.000And now we know for a fact, not even populist MAGA under a charismatic and exciting leader are offering anything other than you can mess around with the ornaments on the surface while we get on with the business of power.
00:31:14.000Now, the people that I know from the liberal left, they are saying, oh no, look, Peter Thiel and Larry Ellison, they're instituting technocratic centralized control.
00:31:23.000There'll never be another free election.
00:31:24.000And then the people on the right, Before.
00:31:26.000Oh no, the Democrats and Joe Biden and Dominion voting machines, they're going to control us through technology like never before.
00:31:33.000And isn't it becoming clear, dear Carrie, that these ghosts that pass through, President this, President that, however bombastic they are, or innocuous and decrepit like the previous incumbent, it doesn't matter.
00:31:49.000There's a machine, a very powerful machine, and it can only be opposed by Christ, the Christ in us, the Emmanuel Christ.
00:31:57.000And I think that sort of pulls something so deep from us.
00:32:01.000That most people have been switched off.
00:32:15.000So, firstly, Dan, isn't it our job to be bold in our rhetoric?
00:32:21.000Oh, yeah, that was my original question 100 years ago when I started talking you think that Israel and Israel's financial interest is the bullseye in the middle of all this.
00:32:32.000And I know you're not alone in thinking that.
00:33:09.000And I don't know about Florida, but here, our state is really suffering.
00:33:13.000You have people that cannot afford anything.
00:33:16.000You have college students that aren't getting jobs as soon as they graduate.
00:33:20.000They're going to college getting degrees in gender studies and ridiculous things that aren't even going to give them an opportunity to make money and succeed in life, financially at least.
00:35:05.000When you have that conversation or make those points, you said when you had that hearing about the definition of anti Semitism, like rabbis and prominent Jewish intellectuals or public figures or whatever, how do you, like, how, In the instance of the ones you know, how are they dealing with what you just said then about like, we should defund Israel?
00:35:32.000And they've been saying that for 40 years.
00:35:33.000In fact, the Jewish rabbi who's become a friend of mine, we talk regularly and he said, Carrie, I, we are in exile.
00:35:41.000That Orthodox Jews believe that they are in exile right now and that they are not supposed to be brought back to that land.
00:35:47.000And so he's, imagine him, a Jewish rabbi that's been preaching this for 40 years.
00:35:52.000And then it takes this, you know, outspoken Catholic woman at a hearing to finally get the world's attention about it.
00:35:58.000I mean, he's grateful for it, but, um, yeah, he's against it.
00:36:02.000You know, he, but he said, he'll say to your face that he thinks that it's a racist, um, you know, um, extremist, terrorist, uh, organization, the, the Israeli government and what they're doing to the Palestinian people and how they operate.
00:36:17.000I mean, I don't know if you've been seeing these things that have been coming out of Gaza.
00:36:22.000And yet you see pro-life Christians here in the U.S. silent, because they know that as soon as you speak out, if you dare to speak out against that, against the Israeli government, they know that you're done.
00:36:46.000And what I've realized as a Catholic is that it's theological.
00:36:50.000You know, these Christian Zionists and I'm willing to speak out against my own faith as, you know, these Christian Zionists believe that this is A biblical prophecy, like I said earlier, coming to fruition.
00:37:02.000That 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled.
00:37:39.000And I thought we were free here in the United States.
00:37:41.000But what I'm realizing is we're really not.
00:37:43.000We're really not that free, unfortunately.
00:37:46.000But we have our First Amendment rights.
00:37:48.000And so it takes people like me, people like you who are speaking out and standing up, people like Tucker Carlson, you know, and saying, wait a second.
00:38:03.000In fact, it makes me a lover of people.
00:38:06.000It makes me a compassionate Christian to say, wait a second, innocent human life is being taken at the hands of a government that we're funding and we have to be okay with it because some Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee told me that they're God's chosen people.
00:38:21.000Therefore, we have to bless the bombs that they're putting on the Iranian all-girl school.
00:38:31.000We have a duty as Christians to speak out, especially as Catholics because this is not what the church has taught for 2,000 years.
00:38:38.000I wonder more broadly what the position of a Christian is when dealing with non Christians.
00:38:48.000You know, look, I mean, it's interesting because what you've just described there, like we should start there with the APAC and this is the position.
00:38:55.000And man, like the recent post October the seventh phase of this ongoing, deeply historic complex beginning in 1948, but you know, because I suppose one could say historically going back a lot further, this has been.
00:39:13.000Like the challenge has been that coming into this contentious.
00:39:19.000Urgent space of online conversation that seems to create a lot of fragmentation and fracture everywhere, bringing almost the ultimate issue when it comes to creating division, when it comes to creating censorship, when it comes to creating hatred and confusion, and that unique flavor of irresoluble, irresolubility, if such a word could be possible, something that could never be resolved.
00:39:50.000And it's happened at a point in my own life where, you know, like for the previous years, I've been very focused on trying my best to tell the truth online, tell the truth online, tell the truth online, do your best, come up with stuff, commentate.
00:40:03.000And, but because I've been dealing with so many contentious and difficult things personally, I felt like, oh man, I don't, this is heavy.
00:40:11.000And anything, you know, like that gets into devastation, genocide, dead children, all of that, you, it's a, there's a kind of, What I want to say, you can only really call it a lack of courage in the end, and I mean that in the literal sense heart, like the heart, the heart, and the belly are gone.
00:40:30.000You know, it's been like I had some interesting and very interesting personal challenges last few years, is how I would put it, and some pretty radical changes.
00:40:40.000And so, it's been like this issue, which is obviously the dominant and defining issue of our time, or at least is the window, the sort of into it, because where it leads is, how hold on, what is real power?
00:40:55.000But let's face it, before October the 7th, things were exacerbating pretty nice anyway.
00:41:00.000People were worried about free speech.
00:41:02.000People were worried about corruption, hypocrisy, all of the sort of things we generally worry about and get concerned about were hot in right up.
00:41:09.000And I feel this is going to take us pretty close to the brink, maybe even to it.
00:41:14.000But like, I guess as a new Christian, Carrie, what I've been thinking about and trying to understand, because I'm reading these books now, I'm reading the Old Testament, I'm reading the New Testament, I've been around once or twice, one and a half times, or sometimes I skip.
00:41:25.000Bits of numbers or little bits when it gets like double boring, you know, like the lists of begats sometimes, or very long instructions of how to build a temple.
00:41:33.000Sometimes I'm like, Oh, come on, I get the idea.
00:41:36.000Like, it seems that the tension between the Jewish people and the Christianity that emerges from it is, of course, some of Paul's letters are describing those tensions.
00:41:52.000The book of Acts is describing those tensions.
00:41:55.000And of course, the gospels are describing the climactic.
00:42:00.000The climactic departure that the crucifixion and resurrection represents.
00:42:05.000And of course, the Christian position is that Christ is God personified.
00:42:10.000And it may be, and I wonder where you stand on this, that any personification of Christ in the Old Testament, excuse me, any personification of God in the Old Testament is Christ, whether that's a burning bush or the appearances in prophetic visions of Ezekiel or Daniel or obviously the servant songs late in Isaiah, that this is all our Lord being.
00:42:34.000Prophesied, and I know that I heard recently that no, because the Jewish Messiah has very, very specific Davidic and sort of I don't know, theological there's bullet points of like, unless he does that, that, and that, that ain't the Messiah.
00:42:50.000And I think some of them are like, the temple's got to be reestablished, and the people have all got to get back together.
00:42:56.000And you know, I don't remember that's not something I've been super hyper focused on, but like, I see the book that you know of Revelations that the Grafting back on of the branch, you know, the grafting back on of the branch and some kind of reconciliation.
00:43:11.000And if, as Christians, we believe that Christ is the Messiah, and surely that's the central point, then there is something kind of pivotal and difficult to reconcile specifically between people of Jewish faith and Christians.
00:44:41.000And I'm, I, I feel sad for the Jewish people that they think that there is this dual covenant.
00:44:46.000Even Christian Zionists believe that there's this dual covenant, a dual way to, you know, to heaven and to God and that there's one path for the Jews and one path for the Christians.
00:45:02.000And so it's, it's a beautiful thing when you see Jewish, Jewish people convert to Christianity.
00:45:07.000And, um, I encourage more and more people to go out there and try to make disciples and get more people to, To come into the faith and to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, He is our Savior, He is King over all, and the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.
00:45:25.000So, it doesn't make us anything hater, it just makes us Christians.
00:45:32.000And so, I reject anybody that's trying to put labels on us as Christians and to deny the truth that Christ is, in fact, King, He is the Messiah, He is God incarnate.
00:45:42.000And those who are in Christ are in that new covenant, and we welcome all.
00:46:16.000Now, and also from my own reading, I'm looking at how much censure there is around immorality, sexual immorality.
00:46:27.000And, like, I myself, gosh, fornicator, promiscuous, idolater, I can see even in a scriptural sense.
00:46:37.000Now, like, do you, what I wonder and what I sometimes feel is that this is a very broad generalization, obviously, and it's actually not particularly being applied to Catholics, actually.
00:46:51.000I'm thinking more what I'm experiencing of Christianity living in America right now, is that there's a particular interest.
00:47:01.000In same sex relationships, that I would characterize as a little bit prurient, a little bit, ooh, a little bit sort of an intrigue that's unconscious.
00:47:12.000Whereas I feel, and this is just my stuff, I can't back this up with scripture, certainly not yet, that all sexual immorality is under the same deal.
00:47:25.000And what I really want to understand, Carrie, and I want your help with, is I would like to be able to say to.
00:47:33.000People that are same, well, what I am saying in my own conversations, right, just to let you know where I'm at the moment, I'm like, I can't see how a same sex couple living together and loving one another is significantly different than a heterosexual couple.
00:48:02.000And I get the impression from certain, from a particular, Woman that I'm talking to, I go, I asked her outright how much of your relationship with your partner is about sex, really?
00:48:13.000We love each other and we're with one another.
00:48:16.000When it gets to that, you know, like people that are living honorably with one another, that love one another, rather than making sexuality the apex of your identity, which I did for a long time, sex, my sexuality.
00:48:29.000And you could even say about a very macho guy or even you as an ultra feminine looking woman.
00:48:35.000I don't know what you're like on the inside, but.
00:48:36.000You know, you're identifying, it looks like, with being a beautiful woman.
00:48:40.000So, what do we, what do you have to, tell me about that?
00:48:44.000Because I want to feel that the love and the compassion.
00:48:47.000And I try and think, you know, whether it's the, look at the two issues we're discussing today same sex relationships and Israel.
00:48:53.000If you imagine him here, or have faith in him here, I don't know, of course, what he would say or what he would do.
00:48:59.000I just sort of have a feeling of what it would feel like, like loving acceptance.
00:49:04.000And I sort of have the feeling that he would put himself right with the people that were most marginalized.
00:49:09.000And most maligned by whatever we consider to be the Pharisaic class of our time.
00:49:15.000And I suppose that's the most powerful cultural voices.
00:49:17.000And in your country and in mine, that sort of shifts a little bit.
00:49:21.000But so, yeah, I guess it's not really a question, but I've said a load of things and I just wonder what you think.
00:49:26.000Well, I would like to ask you, you know, when people, because remember during 2009, the whole gay marriage thing, people would say, well, love is love.
00:50:19.000I love the Holy Mother and I love the saints, but I've not become Catholic.
00:50:24.000I think mainly because they wouldn't let me be Pope one day, even though at the moment I do have other priorities to deal with ahead of the fact that I can never be Pope.
00:51:30.000That's what I'm sort of, what I'm recognizing as the sort of, Theological problem is that if you put your pleasure ahead of God, then that is not cool.
00:51:40.000But I feel like there are so many people that are just in the church having the time of their lives condemning same sex attracted people or gay people.
00:51:49.000I feel like, well, you know, we're in plank spec territory, you know, like in terms of get that plank out your eye.
00:51:58.000Well, no, I just think when you really love someone, when you really, really love them, you want what's good for them.
00:52:03.000And I think that seeing, seeing a society, I mean, throughout the history of the world, uh, societies are built on men and women and coming together.
00:52:14.000God created male and female perfectly to be together.
00:52:18.000I mean, you look at Genesis, you can't deny that.
00:52:20.000And so to say, well, I think God now would, is a liar.
00:52:24.000And I think that he wants two men to be together.
00:52:30.000And I think that when you really love someone, you, you shouldn't lie to them.
00:52:34.000And you shouldn't just say, yeah, you can get married because we, as Christians, at least as a Catholic, I believe marriage is a sacrament, you know, a sacrament by God.
00:53:20.000And I feel like that threshold, and I'm not talking about decadence or hedonism or promiscuity or infatuation with sexual identity.
00:53:29.000Indeed, a person's sexual identity should not be at the apex of who they believe themselves to be, regardless that your identity is who you are in Him, fearfully and wonderfully made.
00:54:31.000And so I can't just be like, oh, I'm just going to go around being angry all the time and living in that sin of, you know?
00:54:39.000But what I'm trying to say about the sexual stuff is you can't say, you know, one thing about, okay, I believe this part of the Bible, but I don't believe this.
00:54:48.000You know, we see in Genesis, it's very simple God created male and female.
00:54:56.000I'm saying, like, I'm thinking about it this way.
00:54:57.000You know, he created them in his image, he created them male and female, he created them.
00:55:02.000I like that because that sort of suggests that God's image contains both maleness and femaleness.
00:55:08.000God's image is beyond that, it's beyond it because Adam's in his image, Eve's in his image, male and female, he created them in his image, he created them.
00:55:58.000What I'm actually trying to Do is sort of triage, actually, Carrie, a kind of a triage of the like.
00:56:05.000I don't think Christ's like, hey, I just want you to be happy.
00:56:07.000No, I think Christ wants you to die unto the world and be reborn in Him and repent, and nothing should get in your way of being an absolute expression of Christ.
00:56:18.000And when you fall, you're going to need to turn to other Christians or in order to be held up and to be in community for us to collectively represent what He, you know, and, you know, the marriage of.
00:56:30.000As a sacrament, and by your definition of a man and woman, be a representation of his relationship with us collectively.
00:57:04.000Charge, you know, listen, it's not something I can really level at you because you have chosen it seems as your priority as a Christian woman.
00:57:17.000That's no small issue for a person to choose as the hill they're going to die on, you know.
00:57:23.000But what I'm saying is, the question I'm trying to ask is, what should be, as loving Christians, how do we not, like, I sense, do you think it's reasonable?
00:57:38.000I sense that people are prioritizing censure around same sex over some guy jerking off the whole time over porn.
00:57:48.000And I think them things both need some attention because anything where you're not fully giving yourself over to God is where you're personally going wrong.
00:58:00.000And I also think that, you know, and I'm talking about the words of Christ rather than the broader book and the letters of Paul, et cetera.
00:58:07.000It's so urgent, it's so clear that what he wants us to do is.
00:58:16.000Like, I'm talking about some John stuff.
00:58:19.000But, like, do, yeah, my question is do you think there's an undue prioritization around same sex relationships rather than sexual immorality in a broader sense, which includes heterosexual immorality, pornography, all of the other things?
00:58:33.000Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's wrong.
01:00:17.000It's, it's the succession of the apostles that give us, give them that authority.
01:00:22.000And so with that sacrament of confession, you know, you're, the weight is lifted off and that you're free from that sin.
01:00:28.000And then maybe the priest tells you in your penance, you know, hey, check in with me next week and make sure that you're not watching that on the internet or you're not, you know, committing adultery or whatever that is, you know, it's sin and it separates us from God.
01:00:41.000And if more people realize that, that when you're living in mortal sin, you are not with God.
01:00:47.000And so to have that reconciliation is a beautiful gift.
01:00:51.000And I think if more people had that, they would try to live holy lives.
01:01:17.000And we have to be, you know, recognize our sins, whether that's living, you know, in a homosexual lifestyle or committing adultery, watching pornography, being angry, being, you know, lustful, whatever that is.
01:01:31.000It's sin and it keeps us from God and it keeps us from living holy lives.
01:01:36.000I think the real hero is your husband who's managed to presumably stay married to you up to this point and only convert to Catholicism a week or so ago.
01:01:46.000Because I can see you're a woman who can handle an argument and you admitted to the temper and the anger.
01:01:51.000So he's done very well to withstand before yielding.
01:01:58.000It's funny, I just converted to Catholicism last year.
01:02:23.000You've really put some complicated things over very, very well and helped me to understand my own faith and my own challenges as well as what seems to be an extraordinarily complex political matter defining geopolitics right now.