Tate Speech - Cigar Night Q&A with Tristan Tate | Ep.5

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00:00:44.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:00:51.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:03:20.000 I'm going to be a little bit more serious about this.

00:03:23.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:03:30.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:05:49.000 .

00:05:50.000 ...

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00:07:33.000 So, we're going to go ahead and start with the first one. So, we're going to start with the first one.

00:07:40.000 So, we're going to start with the first one.

00:09:50.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:09:57.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:04.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:11.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:18.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:25.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:32.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:39.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:46.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:10:53.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:00.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:07.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:14.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:21.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:28.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:35.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:42.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:49.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:11:56.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:03.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:10.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:17.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:24.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:31.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:38.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:45.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:52.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:12:59.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:06.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:13.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:20.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:28.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:35.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:42.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:49.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:13:56.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:03.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:10.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:17.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:24.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:31.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:38.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of the game.

00:14:46.000 you

00:16:02.000 ...

00:16:04.000 Oh god...

00:16:06.000 God, help us...

00:16:08.000 Help us...

00:16:11.000 Help...

00:16:13.000 Help us...

00:16:15.000 Please help, god...

00:16:16.000 Please help...

00:16:17.000 Please help, god...

00:16:18.000 MORE INTROetz This is so weird But at least we have a gtg Nothing more, let's just try Again

00:16:29.000 More introetz

00:16:55.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:02.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:09.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:16.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:23.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:30.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:37.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:44.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:51.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:17:58.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:05.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:12.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:19.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:26.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:33.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:40.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:47.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:18:54.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:01.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:08.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:15.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:22.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:29.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:36.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:43.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:50.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:19:57.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:20:04.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:20:11.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:20:18.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:20:25.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:20:31.000 So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it.

00:20:36.000 So, I'm going to play a little bit of it.

00:21:31.000 ♪♪♪

00:26:11.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started. So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:26:18.000 So, I'm going to go ahead and get started.

00:29:21.000 so

00:30:14.000 You

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00:34:10.000 ♪♪

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00:39:22.000 you ....

00:39:25.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:39:32.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:39:39.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:39:46.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:39:53.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:00.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:07.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:15.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:22.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:29.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:36.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:43.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:50.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:40:57.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:41:04.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:41:11.000 you you

00:41:15.000 Thank you..

00:41:53.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this. I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:00.000 I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story. So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:07.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:12.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:17.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:24.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:29.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:34.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:36.000 So, let's get started.

00:42:39.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:44.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:44.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.

00:42:49.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:42:51.000 So, let's get started.

00:42:54.000 So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.

00:44:27.000 you you So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:44:38.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:44:45.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:44:52.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:44:57.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:02.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:07.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:12.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:17.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:22.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:27.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:32.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:37.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:42.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:47.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:52.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:45:57.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:02.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:07.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:12.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:17.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:22.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:27.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:32.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:37.000 So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this.

00:46:42.000 so

00:49:14.000 you you

00:49:18.000 so

00:54:21.000 you

00:55:47.000 Welcome to my show..

00:56:19.000 so

00:57:15.000 ladies and gentlemen thank you for joining me for another Cigar Night with me, Tristan the Talisman Tate.

00:57:28.000 Now, you all know how these work.

00:57:29.000 I sit down, I smoke a cigar, I listen to your questions, I go through questions I've been asked earlier on Twitter and on other platforms, and I do my best to give some knowledge and some insight into what it is that you are asking me.

00:57:42.000 But today is a slightly different episode because as I smoke this cigar, which I'm going to go into in a moment, I've decided to have a special guest on.

00:57:50.000 Our guest is a man who goes by the name of Joey Carbstrong.

00:57:53.000 He is a vegan activist, I would say, and a vegan himself.

00:57:58.000 It came up on Twitter a while ago.

00:58:02.000 I mentioned the fact that I follow people that I disagree with. 0.78

00:58:05.000 I follow vegans, white supremacists, black supremacists, all sorts of racist accounts.

00:58:10.000 And everyone was reprimanding me saying, you can't endorse these people.

00:58:13.000 And I said, no, no. I follow people who I have disagreements with because it makes Twitter more interesting.

00:58:19.000 And somebody said, why don't you debate Joey Carbstrong on veganism?

00:58:22.000 Now, my first reaction was, why would I debate on veganism?

00:58:25.000 I didn't understand why anyone wanted to see me debate on veganism because I'm not really that interested in the topic, to be perfectly honest.

00:58:33.000 I myself am not a vegan, but I don't really care who is, so I didn't see the need for a debate and I voiced that concern on Twitter.

00:58:40.000 And Joey, for all those watching on Rumble, 10,000 of you now, I want to let you know has been very polite and very respectful, but his fans were not.

00:58:49.000 His fans obviously attacked me on Twitter, as is the nature of the internet.

00:58:52.000 Believe me, my skin's thick enough to put up with it by now.

00:58:55.000 And said, oh, you're scared to debate him on veganism.

00:58:58.000 You're scared to debate him on veganism.

00:58:59.000 And I thought, you know what? One, I'm not scared of talking to anybody about any topic.

00:59:03.000 And two, this Joey guy is so... 0.94

00:59:06.000 Respectful and normal, seemingly.

00:59:09.000 Let's have him on the podcast and let's see what he thinks or what he wants me to think or what he wants everyone in the world who eats meat to think.

00:59:17.000 So you never know. At the end of this podcast, I may declare myself a vegan.

00:59:20.000 I don't know. I've done no debate preparation because veganism isn't something that I study or prepare for.

00:59:25.000 To very quickly introduce my cigar, this is a Hoyo de Monterey Double Corona.

00:59:31.000 It's about as large as Cuban cigars get.

00:59:32.000 So I've gone with a very big Cuban cigar tonight because I don't feel this conversation is going to be over with very quickly.

00:59:38.000 And I'm going to put on my headphones in just a second.

00:59:41.000 I know you're listening Joey, so I'm going to, when you appear on screen, give you a chance to introduce yourself to everybody, I guess, in my audience who may or may not know who you are.

00:59:51.000 Hello.

00:59:53.000 Thank you very much, mate.

00:59:57.000 It's a great introduction. And like Tristan said, this is going to be a civil discussion.

01:00:03.000 I know we're framing, like you might have seen my YouTube thumbnail framing it as a little bit of a debate or whatever.

01:00:08.000 Thank you. So, you did your amount of your word, as you said, you know, in your amount of your word.

01:00:25.000 You didn't forget. And you even reached out to me.

01:00:27.000 It's been like a couple months since, or like at least six, what was it, four weeks since we last chatted?

01:00:31.000 Something like that, yeah. So, like, you know what?

01:00:33.000 Kudos to you, mate. And, yeah, like, I know people will call on you scared and this and that.

01:00:38.000 Oh, you're too scared. But, you know, that's not what I saw from you anyway.

01:00:42.000 So, I will just quickly introduce myself if that's cool with you.

01:00:46.000 Please, go right ahead. Is it freezing on your end?

01:00:50.000 Well, it's not on his end, so it should be alright.

01:00:53.000 I hear you. That's great.

01:00:56.000 Yeah, so basically, my social media handle is Joey Carbstrong, but I changed my name from Armstrong to Carbstrong after I left gangs, come out of prison.

01:01:04.000 Spent about six months in prison for firearms.

01:01:08.000 I was on the streets from 14 onwards and got involved in drugs, gangs.

01:01:13.000 Then we got into high-level organized crime, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia and landed myself in prison.

01:01:19.000 I was on house arrest for 20 months.

01:01:23.000 And I got 13 months.

01:01:24.000 I served about six and got out on parole.

01:01:28.000 Part of my parole was not drinking, taking drugs because I didn't want to go back to jail.

01:01:33.000 And I was in solitary.

01:01:35.000 I spent five days in solitary.

01:01:37.000 And I know you've been in prison too, so you know what it's like.

01:01:39.000 It's not a fun place.

01:01:41.000 I definitely didn't want to go back, that's for sure.

01:01:43.000 So I got sober. Part of my sobriety was like...

01:01:47.000 Thinking, I don't want to be violent anymore.

01:01:49.000 Where am I violent in my life?

01:01:51.000 And I had this seed planted about karma and hypocrisy.

01:01:55.000 Like, I'd just seen people that were like, save the whales, save the dolphins.

01:01:59.000 They were against palm oil because it kills chimpanzees, but they were eating like a cow. 0.99

01:02:04.000 And I was like... You're a hypocrite, at least I can admit it. 0.99

01:02:07.000 I'm eating steak right now and I can see the hypocrisy. 0.98

01:02:11.000 And that's what, like when I got sober and aligned my, sort of got my head clear and I started changing my trajectory in my life, I aligned my actions with my morals and went vegan.

01:02:22.000 I've always been outspoken and I've been an outspoken activist ever since.

01:02:27.000 So I'm not your typical... Kind of pasty-faced, stereotypical vegan.

01:02:33.000 People like to say, I'm actually a bit different to what people perceive as vegans.

01:02:38.000 I don't know how people perceive vegans.

01:02:39.000 Vegans are from all different walks of life.

01:02:42.000 They're just different. Everyone is different.

01:02:44.000 I've meat that is a vegan. They're all different.

01:02:46.000 I'm an activist. I've been online.

01:02:48.000 I've... I've been on different TV shows talking about this.

01:02:51.000 I've got about just over, I think, over two to three hundred views talking about this topic across my social media platform.

01:02:58.000 Two to three hundred million views.

01:02:59.000 Sorry, not two to three hundred million views talking about this topic.

01:03:02.000 That would be a failure.

01:03:04.000 But yeah, I'm pretty well known on Facebook and things like that.

01:03:07.000 But a lot of people don't like me.

01:03:08.000 But yeah, we'll see how this conversation goes.

01:03:11.000 That's who I am and yeah.

01:03:13.000 All right. Well, I mean, my first question to you would be, why me?

01:03:18.000 I mean, I know you didn't put your fans up to this, like tweeting underneath my post, etc.

01:03:22.000 But why am I the type of person who you thought it would be beneficial to have a veganism debate on?

01:03:27.000 Because I truly don't care.

01:03:29.000 As of right now, I don't care 1% about any of the issues vegans bring up.

01:03:33.000 So why me?

01:03:36.000 Well... I've seen your post come up on Twitter.

01:03:42.000 So basically, you said that the number one sign of intelligence in 2023 is the ability to disagree on issues and stay civil.

01:03:48.000 I'll follow men I disagree with on Twitter.

01:03:50.000 I'll sit down and talk to them like, I like opposing points of view.

01:03:54.000 I said, come on my YouTube channel and debate veganism.

01:03:56.000 And you said, there doesn't need to be debating.

01:03:58.000 Eat what you want, I'll do the same, right?

01:03:59.000 Well, I don't have an opposing point of view, is my point.

01:04:02.000 I'm happy for you to be a vegan.

01:04:05.000 My... Go ahead.

01:04:09.000 The reason that I thought of you, because it's not the first time I encountered you, actually.

01:04:12.000 You're all over social media and you're all mega famous.

01:04:14.000 Yeah, I know. Unfortunately. And it's not the first time I talked about veganism either.

01:04:21.000 So I responded to a couple of live streams that you and Andrew did.

01:04:25.000 And I know Andrew's...

01:04:26.000 He's not here, so we're not here to talk about Andrew's views.

01:04:28.000 interviews were talking to you. But you know, you did chime in on a couple of times when Andrew was talking about his problems with vegans and vegetarians or people that don't eat meat and how he doesn't respect them and things like that. But then you were talking about the problem with veganism and talking about how vegans not only kill more animals, they also shouldn't expect everyone in the world to be vegan and you talked about the Yeah.

01:04:56.000 I see. It was a very small talking point to me.

01:04:59.000 And obviously on my last live stream, if anyone saw, I was making a bunch of jokes about Irish people.

01:05:03.000 And my Irish friend was sitting here with me.

01:05:05.000 So it's not something exclusive that I do to pick on the vegan community.

01:05:09.000 I like to have a good laugh at everybody.

01:05:10.000 I think that's how we, you know, stay friendly.

01:05:12.000 I make jokes about all the things I am, certainly.

01:05:16.000 So if the vegan community, you know, obviously watched that and took that personal, then good, because I guess now here you are speaking to me.

01:05:23.000 But what's the debate?

01:05:25.000 That we could possibly have.

01:05:27.000 I see a discussion, but what's the debate?

01:05:29.000 Well, it depends.

01:05:31.000 It depends on what you think about this topic, because we can get straight into it if you want.

01:05:35.000 I thought we might...

01:05:37.000 Yeah, I mean, there's plenty to debate here, because you obviously think it's...

01:05:41.000 Judging by the way that you live your life, it's completely morally justifiable to...

01:05:47.000 Have animals endure a slaughterhouse so they can eat their body.

01:05:51.000 So if you believe that, then I don't believe that.

01:05:55.000 I believe it's not justifiable.

01:05:57.000 I don't think we have any reason, morally justifiable reason, coherent moral reason to do this to these non-human animals. 0.99

01:06:05.000 And you believe it's totally fine and you don't care.

01:06:08.000 So I think that is a point to debate.

01:06:11.000 Do you hold any religious beliefs before we start?

01:06:14.000 That would be interesting. Or are you an atheist?

01:06:17.000 No, I don't. I don't claim to know everything about the universe.

01:06:22.000 I'm more agnostic. I don't know, but I do lean towards...

01:06:26.000 It's a very bizarre world we live in and it's very hard for me to Come to terms with it being a cosmic accident.

01:06:34.000 But at the same time, I've had some spiritual awakenings in my life through my hard journey and violence and pulling myself out of addiction and things like that.

01:06:42.000 And I've sometimes felt like someone was watching over me.

01:06:44.000 But to say that I'm practicing some kind of religion, I don't think so, no.

01:06:51.000 I understand. Because I feel like a lot of the hard lines that people are scared of debating these days, I mean, there's lots of different debates on LGBTQ rights in the community, etc.

01:06:59.000 And people who are, for example, Muslims will have their hard lines on it and say, well, my religious belief is this.

01:07:04.000 You shouldn't be questioning my religious belief.

01:07:06.000 I myself, I'm an Orthodox Christian.

01:07:08.000 I believe in Jesus Christ.

01:07:10.000 I believe in the Word of the Bible. And the Bible makes it very, very clear that man has dominion over animals.

01:07:15.000 It tells us which animals we can and which animals we can't eat.

01:07:17.000 And I don't understand how any man could argue with a Christian about that.

01:07:21.000 If I say God's word is final, where would you come in and oppose me?

01:07:27.000 So would you eat meat because God told you it's okay?

01:07:29.000 No, I love meat.

01:07:32.000 I absolutely love meat.

01:07:33.000 And I don't feel any...

01:07:37.000 Any duty towards the animals that are killed for my meat, just like any other predator in the world doesn't.

01:07:42.000 I don't believe when a shark eats a seal or eats a human that a shark has done anything morally wrong.

01:07:47.000 I don't believe the shark needs to be reprimanded.

01:07:48.000 I don't believe the shark is evil.

01:07:50.000 So like any meat-eating creature on Earth, I don't feel sad for the prey that I consume.

01:07:59.000 And I don't know why I should.

01:08:02.000 Well, I mean, we can unpack that for sure.

01:08:05.000 I mean, like, first of all, God says it's okay.

01:08:09.000 It was written in the Bible, basically, or written in the Word of God that God gave permission to eat certain animals and not others.

01:08:17.000 No, I mean, that is in the Bible.

01:08:19.000 I'm just saying, how would you counter that argument?

01:08:21.000 Because people don't like to go against people's religious hard lines.

01:08:24.000 Yeah, I mean, I just want to know what you believe, but I want to know what you believe, Tristan, because there's a lot of people with different beliefs out there, but I want to know, because I'm really interested in, because I've seen, I've been following you, I've been watching, and maybe, I don't know if you've been watching anything that I talk about or whatever, but I've been watching a little bit about...

01:08:39.000 I saw you on Piers Morgan. You do care.

01:08:41.000 I saw you on Piers Morgan. You do care.

01:08:43.000 Yeah, but Piers Morgan pretends like he doesn't care. 0.99

01:08:45.000 Like, he cares, he thinks he cares about bees and all that sort of shit. 0.99

01:08:48.000 He doesn't... No one cares about bees. 0.98

01:08:50.000 I mean, no one cares about bees.

01:08:51.000 I... Is it still coming through?

01:08:55.000 It's working. I'm seeing no delays here.

01:08:57.000 And we're good on my Rumble screen. I lost you after bees. 0.99

01:09:00.000 I lost you after bees. Yeah, I don't care about bees.

01:09:03.000 And I'm not going to pretend that I do care about bees. 0.93

01:09:05.000 Because, yeah, that would be a bit stupid if I sat here and said, oh, I care so much about bees. 0.92

01:09:08.000 How can you eat this food? 0.98

01:09:09.000 That kills bees, etc. I don't care about bees.

01:09:12.000 But I don't care about the other animals I eat either.

01:09:15.000 Okay. So, okay.

01:09:18.000 You said I do care.

01:09:21.000 I said you do care about many other issues.

01:09:23.000 I said you do care about many other issues.

01:09:26.000 You care about human beings and you care about other animals.

01:09:30.000 So you're not just a heartless... 0.99

01:09:32.000 A person who lacks empathy and doesn't give a shit about anything? 0.99

01:09:35.000 Because I used to be around people like that. 1.00

01:09:36.000 I used to be around true, cold psychopaths, like in the gang world and that.

01:09:40.000 They did not care about anything.

01:09:42.000 There was a couple of them, and you just knew they don't care.

01:09:45.000 Yes. You've probably been around them too.

01:09:47.000 Well, I've never seen that type of person.

01:09:49.000 No, and I care very deeply about humanity and other people.

01:09:52.000 But I don't think that extends to the animal kingdom.

01:09:56.000 You do? Well, I don't know why you would give a bunch of money to a dog charity if you didn't care about non-human animals. 0.87

01:10:02.000 I love dogs, but if you wanted to eat your dog, I would not have a problem with you eating your dog.

01:10:08.000 Would you have a problem with me eating a dog from the charity?

01:10:12.000 Well, that would be my dog.

01:10:15.000 And I'd have a problem with you coming into my garden and eating from my apple tree, even though they're just apples.

01:10:20.000 They're my apples. That tree's in my garden.

01:10:22.000 So when people say, oh, would you have a problem with me eating your dog?

01:10:24.000 Yes, I'd have a problem with you eating my dog.

01:10:26.000 But there are lots of people all over the world that eat dogs all the time.

01:10:29.000 I'm not going to tell them not to, and I don't care what they do with their dogs.

01:10:33.000 This is a funny talking point because we will get to the predator point, like comparing yourself to a predator in nature as well.

01:10:38.000 But I just want to talk about this dog point because you had an interesting back and forth with Elwood's dog meat on Twitter.

01:10:44.000 Should we talk about that? Oh, Jesus.

01:10:46.000 Yeah, so I'll actually cover this for five seconds first because someone sent me a link to a fake website that allegedly sells dog meat.

01:10:55.000 It has a bunch of pictures of cute dogs next to what is clearly steak and sausages.

01:10:59.000 And they're saying, we sell this dog meat.

01:11:01.000 And someone sent me this As a joke to troll me.

01:11:04.000 And I've sent them a message saying, Hi, do you ship internationally?

01:11:07.000 I'm interested in buying some dog meat to Romania.

01:11:09.000 And I posted a screenshot on the Twitter argument.

01:11:11.000 It was a joke, as in, if someone's selling dog meat, I don't care what they do.

01:11:15.000 But Elwood's dog meat, and I kind of... 0.80

01:11:17.000 I wish I hadn't given them the shout out because they sold the story to the newspaper that I genuinely thought they were a dog meat farm and I stupidly was trying to buy dog meat because I'm evil.

01:11:28.000 And the newspapers obviously which print anything bad about me printed it.

01:11:31.000 And I was like for God's sake I wish I didn't contact those people because it was a joke.

01:11:35.000 I wasn't actually trying to buy dog meat from them.

01:11:37.000 It's not my meat of choice.

01:11:39.000 What would be the problem with that, though?

01:11:41.000 Because you said you don't have a problem with people eating animals.

01:11:43.000 No, I don't have a problem. People do eat dogs.

01:11:46.000 I don't try to shut the farms down.

01:11:47.000 There are dog meat festivals in China.

01:11:50.000 I'm not going to go to China and tell the Chinese people what to do.

01:11:53.000 I don't care that they eat their-

01:14:00.000 Matrix attack.

01:14:02.000 Happens. Fine.

01:14:04.000 Life's good. I'm back in action.

01:14:06.000 Alright, good. I am back on screen.

01:14:09.000 So let me just get our friend Mr.

01:14:12.000 Carbstrong back. As it looks like I'm frantically scrambling on my laptop to get the show back up and running.

01:14:26.000 All I'm doing is messaging my tech guy saying, bro, WTF. That's it.

01:14:30.000 That's all I'm doing. So we should be good in a moment or two.

01:14:35.000 Bear with me. I remember the last question that we were on.

01:14:39.000 So I'm going to hopefully pick up where I left off.

01:14:43.000 And hopefully no one's too upset about losing four or five minutes.

01:14:47.000 I know you've missed me.

01:14:49.000 And the cigar has gone down.

01:14:51.000 But don't worry, I bought a pack of cigarettes, so if I run out of cigar, I'm still going to stay online and keep this conversation flowing.

01:14:57.000 Because that's the way it is.

01:15:00.000 And here we go.

01:15:07.000 Right, I think I've got you back, do I? Is your mic muted?

01:15:14.000 I can't. You're back on my end, mate.

01:15:16.000 Good. And you're back here as well.

01:15:17.000 You can't hear me? I can hear you perfectly fine.

01:15:19.000 That's wonderful. So the question that we just finished is we were talking about the dog meat farm that trolled me and sold the story to the newspaper.

01:15:27.000 And I was saying that I don't particularly care if somebody eats their own dog and that the dog meat festivals that happen in China, etc.

01:15:34.000 I don't want to go there and stop them from doing it.

01:15:38.000 So I guess why should I? Well, why do you?

01:15:42.000 You've got a photographic memory, mate.

01:15:44.000 That was actually very spot on.

01:15:46.000 You held that thought, didn't you?

01:15:48.000 Absolutely. Actually, well, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they are my dog or my property or whatever.

01:15:55.000 I look at the animal's inherent...

01:16:00.000 So it doesn't matter if that human being is my friend.

01:16:04.000 It would matter more to me if they were my family.

01:16:06.000 Yes, I would attack with violent force if necessary to defend them.

01:16:09.000 But it also matters to me what happens to people I don't know. 0.88

01:16:12.000 So in the same case with dogs, if I've seen someone attacking a dog, being cruel to a dog, then I'm going to probably run up and punch him in the head just as I would if they were my own dog.

01:16:20.000 Because I'd be like, what are you doing and what reason do you have to do that?

01:16:24.000 When you talk about other cultures doing something horrible to animals, it doesn't matter to me that it's their culture. 0.60

01:16:30.000 It doesn't justify doing something bad just because it's your culture.

01:16:33.000 There are good things about certain cultures.

01:16:35.000 There are also bad things about certain cultures and it doesn't morally justify an action just because it's cultural or whatever.

01:16:41.000 So my question to you is, do you only care about...

01:16:45.000 Because I asked you about the dog charity.

01:16:48.000 Not every dog at that charity is your dog.

01:16:51.000 True? Well, that's true, but I completely finance it and the dogs are rescued from the streets.

01:16:56.000 And you're saying, like, doing cruel things to animals.

01:16:59.000 Just because I eat meat doesn't mean that I advocate animal cruelty for no reason.

01:17:05.000 You see, I know it's cruel.

01:17:07.000 I know factory farms are cruel.

01:17:08.000 I know where my chickens come from.

01:17:09.000 I know where my beef comes from. 0.95

01:17:10.000 I'm not a stupid person. 0.99

01:17:12.000 I've killed animals myself. 0.99

01:17:13.000 I've killed pigs with knives, in fact, on a part of a reality TV show.

01:17:17.000 So I'm not a coward. I know exactly where my food comes from.

01:17:20.000 But to say about animal cruelty for no reason, to add that into the mix, I think is a bit disingenuous because I'm not talking about kicking dogs.

01:17:27.000 I'm talking about the charity that I run prevents animal cruelty because it prevents animals from being on the street.

01:17:33.000 But that is not the same as people who run dog meat farms raising dogs for meat because I understand what they're raising those dogs for.

01:17:39.000 And they're perfectly entitled to do that.

01:17:41.000 I can try to reduce cruelty.

01:17:43.000 But I think cruelty is completely justified, completely, when it comes to getting fed.

01:17:49.000 I think that the shark that could bite me in half is totally justified to bite me in half.

01:17:55.000 The shark committed no moral evil, even if it bit me.

01:17:58.000 What am I doing in the ocean anyway?

01:18:01.000 Yeah, you should stay out of the ocean.

01:18:02.000 I'm a big advocate for staying out of the ocean when the shark's around, that's for sure. 0.99

01:18:06.000 That's because I'm half black and black people hate the ocean. 0.98

01:18:09.000 I just inherited it from there, I think. 0.99

01:18:11.000 I stay clear of the ocean, but I think what you're...

01:18:14.000 Look, what you're talking about here is...

01:18:16.000 So basically, you're making the point, you're saying that...

01:18:19.000 If you're going to eat the animal, basically, you can do whatever you want to them?

01:18:23.000 Is that what your position is?

01:18:25.000 No. Not whatever you want.

01:18:28.000 Why would that be my position? 0.78

01:18:31.000 I don't think you should cut their arms and legs off while they're alive. 0.98

01:18:35.000 I mean, killing something is never going to be not cool. 0.95

01:18:37.000 Why would you care? Why would you care?

01:18:40.000 I genuinely, if somebody was raising an animal for food, let's say a chicken, and cut its wings off when it was alive, I honestly wouldn't care that much about the chicken.

01:18:49.000 I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to pretend that I would care.

01:18:51.000 I do think it's unnecessary.

01:18:53.000 I wouldn't do it.

01:18:54.000 But you can't kill something in a non-cruel way.

01:18:58.000 Killing something is always cruel.

01:19:00.000 So you have to see cruelty as justifiable if you're going to eat meat.

01:19:03.000 Wouldn't you agree with that at least?

01:19:08.000 Well, there's something called the welfare movement, and there's two sides of this story here.

01:19:15.000 There's obviously factory farming, which most people agree is bad, but they mostly support it through their consumer habits.

01:19:23.000 Do you think factory farming is bad?

01:19:25.000 No. I think it's a miracle that we can have 7 billion, 8 billion people on a planet, and we can all feed them.

01:19:30.000 And anywhere in the world I go, anywhere on Earth I go, if I want a steak or a chicken breast or some eggs, I can get hold of them.

01:19:37.000 I think the food supply chain that humans have built and constructed in order to raise this great civilization is incredible.

01:19:44.000 And I know that involves factory farms, so no, I don't think factory farms are unjustifiable in any way.

01:19:48.000 Are they cruel? Maybe. But I don't care.

01:19:51.000 I think it's an amazing feat of human ingenuity.

01:19:55.000 Okay, I think I'm getting closer here to your position here.

01:20:00.000 Just forgive me here if I don't want to come across as rude or anything like that, but before I thought you said factory farming is cruel.

01:20:08.000 Yeah, and cruelty can be justified.

01:20:11.000 Cruelty can be justified if you're going to eat the animal is what your position is, yeah?

01:20:14.000 Yeah. Well, let's just unpack it, because if we can't even agree that being cruel to animals is bad, then we won't really have to talk about animal rights, which is what I advocate for.

01:20:26.000 I advocate for the rights of the animal, their right to life.

01:20:29.000 Say, if you shot a human in the back of the head, that's murder.

01:20:32.000 You've basically taken away their right to exist.

01:20:35.000 You've violated their rights. To a human, yes.

01:20:39.000 If you've caused them suffering or not, shooting someone in the head, if they didn't feel it, is murder, yeah?

01:20:43.000 Yeah. Shooting a person in the head is murder, yeah. 0.54

01:20:46.000 Thou shall not kill. And you violated their human rights, haven't you? 0.93

01:20:50.000 You violated their right to life, essentially, yeah?

01:20:51.000 Yeah, I mean, the Human Rights Act is a very real thing.

01:20:54.000 There was no Human Rights Act up until the 1960s, is it?

01:20:57.000 I think the European Union came up with it.

01:20:59.000 But no, I don't think that animals get the same rights as humans.

01:21:01.000 No way. Absolutely not.

01:21:03.000 Okay. Well, what I'm saying is we don't even really need to talk about animal rights right now.

01:21:09.000 We can just talk about animal cruelty, which is different.

01:21:11.000 It's their welfare, which is, you know, like the people that believe you can be kind to an animal before you kill them.

01:21:17.000 But you're taking the position that factory farming is like a great invention.

01:21:21.000 And it's like amazing that we can feed 8 billion people, 80 billion animals that are suffering these horrible sheds.

01:21:27.000 Yes. Because I'm actually, I don't know if you know about this, but I investigate these farms constantly in the UK. We do a lot of investigations and exposés.

01:21:36.000 I saw your video about the pigs in gas chambers.

01:21:39.000 There we go. So that's free-range pigs go to this gas chamber. 0.97

01:21:43.000 So do I think that's wrong?

01:21:46.000 Do you think it's wrong that they suffer for 30 seconds to a minute in a dungeon filled with gas and in their own feces screaming for mercy?

01:21:53.000 No, I actually don't.

01:21:54.000 I don't care at all. I think that there's no kind way of killing something and killing something is necessary to keep up the meat production of the world.

01:22:02.000 So I think it's perfectly fine.

01:22:04.000 Obviously, it'd be nice if you could click your fingers and they just completely drop out of consciousness.

01:22:09.000 There is a way of killing things that was 100% harmless or pleasurable.

01:22:14.000 That would be preferable, I guess, but there isn't.

01:22:16.000 I don't want to be killed. Do you?

01:22:19.000 No, I don't want to be murdered. I don't want to suffer in a gas chamber.

01:22:22.000 But I like to eat bacon and somebody has to kill the pigs. 0.93

01:22:25.000 But it's a reality of eating meat.

01:22:27.000 It is a reality.

01:22:29.000 But to say you don't care at all about these animals suffering to death in this gas chamber seems a bit like you're lacking empathy that most of the population would have. 0.99

01:22:39.000 I mean, it's a pig. 0.96

01:22:41.000 It was raised for a reason. And also my position is this, on pigs and cows and dogs, on all these things. 0.86

01:22:49.000 There's not a single farm animal, almost.

01:22:51.000 There's not a single farm animal which exists exactly as it is on the farm out in nature.

01:22:54.000 All of these things were produced by humans.

01:22:56.000 Pigs in nature, I've seen them. 1.00

01:22:57.000 They're short and fucking muscly and brown and hairy and they've got tusks and they're fast and they're dangerous. 1.00

01:23:03.000 The big fat lazy pink pigs exist because we bred them to be that way. 1.00

01:23:06.000 Every single form of cattle, every single form is descendant of the European oryx, which has been extinct for over 400 something years.

01:23:13.000 Humans have created these animals through selective breeding.

01:23:16.000 In fact, if you wanted to make an argument not to eat dogs...

01:23:19.000 I'd understand it a bit more than cows and pigs because dogs were selectively bred by people, but not for food.

01:23:24.000 Dogs were selectively bred by people to be hunters and to be retrievers.

01:23:28.000 That's why they still have these names today.

01:23:30.000 But if someone wants to eat a dog, I still don't care. 0.99

01:23:32.000 And you have to understand, and everyone has to understand, that all these pigs weren't just wandering around the countryside when we decided to show up and kill them. 0.98

01:23:40.000 They were specifically bred for that purpose. 0.93

01:23:42.000 It's why they get so fat so fast.

01:23:43.000 It's why you can feed them almost anything and they put on body mass.

01:23:46.000 So yeah, the unfortunate last 30 seconds of a pig's life, where it suffers in a gas chamber, is completely fine with me.

01:23:53.000 It really is, because that's how it goes from farm to table.

01:23:57.000 There's no happy way of doing it. 0.76

01:24:01.000 Okay, yeah, I mean, like, for me, if they didn't suffer in a gas chamber, it's wrong to murder them. 0.97

01:24:05.000 Like, for me, similar to murdering a human being. 0.71

01:24:08.000 But we can talk about... 0.99

01:24:09.000 So how should we murder them? 0.98

01:24:13.000 Well, I don't think we should murder them. 0.81

01:24:14.000 I don't think it's morally justifiable because I've been vegan for 10 years and haven't had to stab an animal in the throat yet since I've been vegan. 0.89

01:24:22.000 I stabbed it in the chest, for the record.

01:24:24.000 I've seen you. I know that you're on Shipwrecked and you were advocating for killing the animals on the island. 0.98

01:24:29.000 I did kill them. Now, you're not on an island now.

01:24:32.000 You're actually multi-millionaire and you can eat whatever you want.

01:24:35.000 You've got personal chefs, but you still choose to...

01:24:39.000 Obviously, you don't need to eat animals, do you?

01:24:41.000 Do you believe you need to? You just said that it's tasty.

01:24:44.000 You want to. Yeah, well, I want to.

01:24:46.000 And I understand that in today's society with supermarkets and all the miracles that you guys talk about, that you can exist on a vegan diet.

01:24:52.000 So that means I could, right?

01:24:53.000 Because I live in the 21st century.

01:24:55.000 I live here in a first world country with supermarkets and food you can buy everywhere.

01:24:59.000 So yeah, I'm not one of the Maasai people of Africa.

01:25:01.000 I'm not a hunter-gatherer.

01:25:03.000 I'm not one of the people who lives in southern Gujarat in India who has to depend on fish.

01:25:07.000 I understand that I have a choice of what I can eat.

01:25:10.000 I understand that. And I eat meat, and that's the way it is.

01:25:13.000 I like meat, and I don't see anything wrong with meat, and I don't care that the animals have to die because it's just an unfortunate part of being part of the food chain.

01:25:20.000 Just as a shark or a crocodile or a polar bear wouldn't care if it was eating me or my child.

01:25:26.000 It wouldn't care. And as much as I'd be a bad parent if I let my daughter get near a polar bear, I could not argue the polar bear did anything morally wrong by eating a person.

01:25:36.000 I don't think you can.

01:25:39.000 Would you shoot the polar bear to protect your daughter? 1.00

01:25:43.000 I'd shoot a polar bear to eat it, given half a chance. 0.97

01:25:46.000 Yeah, but I'm saying, would you shoot, you would obviously, if your human was about to be eaten by, like, a polar bear, would you shoot the polar bear to protect the human being? 0.99

01:25:54.000 Say you didn't know the human. I'd shoot a human to protect another human into the right circumstances. 0.93

01:25:59.000 Me too. People do it all the time. Me too. 0.99

01:26:00.000 Yeah. Me too.

01:26:01.000 100%. I would use lethal force to protect someone's life.

01:26:05.000 Absolutely. 100%.

01:26:06.000 And my family's or whatever. Someone is a person.

01:26:09.000 I'm not against killing. I'm not against killing, like, per se.

01:26:13.000 I believe killing can be justified in certain situations, right?

01:26:16.000 What I am against. 0.98

01:26:19.000 What I am against is innocent beings being enslaved and decapitated so I can eat a piece of their body. 0.78

01:26:26.000 That there I don't think is justified.

01:26:29.000 So there's a difference between justifiable killing to protect self-defense, things like this, and unjustifiable killing for a bacon sandwich, a bit of taste pleasure or whatever.

01:26:40.000 I don't make that difference at all.

01:26:41.000 I can't make that distinction.

01:26:43.000 And I certainly don't.

01:26:44.000 I certainly don't.

01:26:46.000 Put animal lives and human lives on the exact same plane of importance at all.

01:26:52.000 Do you think that pigs and cows are as important as people?

01:26:57.000 Do you feel their lives are worth as much as a person's life?

01:27:03.000 Well, what we could do is we could do a little...

01:27:07.000 It's like a logical consistency test, and it's for this exact topic what you're bringing up right now.

01:27:13.000 Is it a word trap?

01:27:15.000 I'm ready if it is, but go ahead.

01:27:17.000 It's not a word trap. It's just basically, we share a common, like, morally relevant trait with animals, and it's our conscious experience.

01:27:25.000 Now, you could say that we have more intelligence in animals, of course.

01:27:30.000 Especially, we could use a pig, for example. 0.87

01:27:32.000 Pigs are more intelligent than dogs, okay? 0.72

01:27:34.000 We know that scientifically, or they're at least comparable, and in some studies, dogs do better, but they're about on par or better in certain studies.

01:27:43.000 Pigs taste better. Let's say we have a...

01:27:47.000 Is there something about animals, right?

01:27:50.000 When you look at, say, a pig, is there something about that pig that...

01:27:53.000 Obviously, I don't think you would agree with putting human beings in gas chambers to eat them for bacon, yeah? 0.76

01:27:59.000 You make a distinction. Well, of course I wouldn't.

01:28:02.000 Why would I want to eat a human being?

01:28:04.000 In fact, if you give me 60 seconds, let me tell you something that humans and animals have in common.

01:28:10.000 It's a very basic concept that almost every animal in the world has in common, besides like octopus and a few others.

01:28:16.000 It's called the preservation of one's own species.

01:28:18.000 So if you take a piranha, a tiny little angry fish with a brain the size of a pea, you put any piece of meat or a human or a horse or a dog or a pig into that pond and it's bleeding, the piranhas are going to rip it apart.

01:28:29.000 But piranhas don't eat other piranhas, no species survives if it does.

01:28:32.000 The preservation of one's own species is more important than the preservation of other species, that's why lions don't hunt and eat other lions, that's why they eat other things. 0.59

01:28:40.000 So if you want to talk about traits that we have in common, then I as a human saying, yeah, screw the pig, I'm going to eat him, and I'm not going to kill and eat other humans, Bye.

01:28:48.000 There's something that we have in common with every other species. 0.81

01:28:51.000 Because I'm not interested in killing or eating humans, and I don't think killing humans is right almost ever.

01:28:55.000 There's almost no justifiable reason to murder somebody or to be cruel to somebody. 0.96

01:28:59.000 But pigs, I simply don't care about humans. 0.98

01:29:02.000 The human species murder each other all the time. 1.00

01:29:06.000 Humans are some of the most sick, evil animal on Earth. 1.00

01:29:10.000 We find the most creative ways to torture and murder each other. 1.00

01:29:13.000 We murder each other en masse, murder children.

01:29:15.000 Human beings are not some amazing species, moral species.

01:29:19.000 I mean, we created morality.

01:29:22.000 We can act morally.

01:29:24.000 God created morality, my friend, and humans know it's wrong.

01:29:27.000 And if a human doesn't know it's wrong, then we can argue that there's something wrong with that human. 0.95

01:29:31.000 He is a defective person.

01:29:33.000 I just would like to stick, if we can, if we may, I would like to stick on this point about humans and animals. 0.84

01:29:40.000 You have a separator here.

01:29:42.000 You wouldn't want to see humans factory farmed and put in these places.

01:29:47.000 So there's got to be something, a trait that's different.

01:29:49.000 And now, are you saying that the trait that separates humans and animals, it's like a morally relevant trait that we possess, that the animals do not possess.

01:29:58.000 Yeah, it's that they're not humans.

01:30:00.000 I care about the preservation of my own species because I'm not a psychopath. 0.91

01:30:03.000 Whereas a pig is not a human, and I'm not interested in the preservation of pigs.

01:30:08.000 What do you mean by species?

01:30:10.000 What do you mean by human?

01:30:11.000 We are human. Is it something about our DNA or something like that?

01:30:14.000 A multitude of factors.

01:30:16.000 Is it because we are more intelligent and it's our DNA? I just want to find out what these differences are.

01:30:22.000 Well, as somebody who doesn't believe in God, I'll speak in your language.

01:30:25.000 Because if somebody who doesn't believe in God, they will say that every species evolved independently in and of itself and humans are...

01:30:32.000 Yeah, it is our DNA. It's the fact that I can mate with another human and create another human.

01:30:36.000 Everyone knows what a human is, but I would say a human...

01:30:40.000 Is made in the image of God.

01:30:41.000 That's what I would say. And a pig is not made in the image of God. 0.95

01:30:44.000 It certainly is not made in the image of God.

01:30:46.000 Neither is a cow. In fact, cows and pigs are made in the image of what humans made them into.

01:30:52.000 So as a religious person, there's no argument you could possibly give me to see any lower life form or any animal besides a human as equal to a human because animals aren't made in the image of God.

01:31:07.000 So, if there were a species of human being that, or beings that look exactly like us, weren't made in God's image, and they shared, like, all of our morally relevant traits, like the consciousness experience, they could experience the same level and depth of suffering as us, except they weren't made in the image of God, but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between being, like, you know, so we were made in the image of God, and there's a group that aren't.

01:31:29.000 Let's just say they evolved separately from us.

01:31:32.000 Sure. Let me finish my point and then I'll let you go.

01:31:36.000 But I was just wondering, is it okay to do to them what we do to animals because they're not made in the image of God and you wouldn't be able to tell us apart, really?

01:31:44.000 If I'm correct, isn't an octopus an insanely intelligent animal with a very complicated nervous system that feels pain and emotions just like humans do?

01:31:56.000 Am I correct in that? I think that's true.

01:31:58.000 They're also delicious, and I don't care about an octopus.

01:32:00.000 So if that answers your question, then that answers your question.

01:32:04.000 Well, it doesn't really.

01:32:05.000 I'm just trying to figure out. So basically, because humans are made in the image of God, we can't do to humans what we do to animals.

01:32:13.000 Nope, because the commandments of God, when they say thou shall not kill, talks about other human beings.

01:32:18.000 It does not speak about animals.

01:32:21.000 It doesn't say that. It's just thou shalt not murder, doesn't it?

01:32:24.000 Thou shalt not kill. It doesn't say thou shalt not.

01:32:26.000 Well, it says thou shalt not kill, but then in Leviticus chapter 11, it tells you which animals you can eat and which animals you can't.

01:32:31.000 And the Islamic holy book tells you exactly how to slaughter them and which animals you can eat and which animals you can't. 0.96

01:32:37.000 Does it say anything about not eating dogs?

01:32:41.000 In Islam they do, but I don't think in Christianity they mention how much animals.

01:32:45.000 Leviticus chapter 11, I believe, is a differentiation between what the animal eats and what its hoof shape is.

01:32:52.000 Obviously this was written a very long time ago.

01:32:54.000 If someone in the chat wants to correct me or look this up, I believe it says if it has a hoof that's split in half and chews of the cud, you can eat it, which does not refer to camels, but it refers to basically every other livestock animal that we have today.

01:33:07.000 I've read the Bible many times.

01:33:10.000 Yeah, and these animals are selectively bred by humans and they're kept in factory farms and put under immense...

01:33:15.000 Okay, look, if you're saying because we are created in God's image, and we can't actually prove that, can we?

01:33:24.000 That's a faith. We have to have faith in that, yeah?

01:33:28.000 You have to have faith.

01:33:30.000 It's like a belief that you have that no one can actually verify or disprove is what I'm like.

01:33:36.000 I can't really say, well, no, we weren't.

01:33:38.000 You just say, well, yes, we were.

01:33:40.000 We could never get to a point.

01:33:42.000 We could go on indefinitely with this because you could say something to me like, Oh, we shouldn't kill and eat pigs because it's cruel.

01:33:49.000 And I could say, yes, we should and no, it's not cruel.

01:33:52.000 But I don't try to redact the arguments down to such a basic level.

01:33:55.000 I like to try to give a little bit of nuance and try to inject my knowledge into the situation a little bit more.

01:34:01.000 But no, I don't think any argument can be made that animal lives are as important as human lives.

01:34:06.000 And if you really, truly believe that, if you really, truly, in your heart believe that an animal life is as important as a human life, then I believe that there is something, and I don't mean this in an offensive way.

01:34:15.000 Let's talk about someone else. Let's talk about a third party.

01:34:17.000 This guy believes that animal lives and human lives, because it's sentient, are all exactly of equal value. 0.62

01:34:22.000 Then that person is less intelligent than a piranha.

01:34:26.000 Or a shark. Because piranhas don't think that piranha lives are less important than the other animals' lives.

01:34:31.000 And the preservation of your own species is something innate in all of us, in almost every creature that lives.

01:34:37.000 So if you want to say that you're less intelligent than a piranha and you believe that a pig's life or a chicken's life or a cow's life or a lamb's life is exactly as important as yours or mine or my kids or your kids, I don't believe that you really think that.

01:34:51.000 Well, it depends on who the person is, really. 1.00

01:34:53.000 Because if you're talking about a piece of shit, then I don't see them as any more worthy than a fly. 1.00

01:34:57.000 Yeah, of course. If you're talking about a person, they try their best. 1.00

01:35:02.000 In general. A child.

01:35:04.000 Like me, if you met me 10 years ago, you probably thought, bloody, he's a lost hope.

01:35:08.000 But I turned my life around now, I try to do good in the world, and I try to leave a positive mark on the world.

01:35:13.000 And I have to say, your story, sorry to digress a little bit, I didn't know anything about you.

01:35:17.000 Your story's actually pretty cool. 0.92

01:35:19.000 So, you know, just because you're a vegan, and I disagree with you, and I don't give a shit about animals, doesn't mean that I can't tell the 27, 28, I haven't refreshed it, 30-something thousand people watching on my audience, that your story of being a gangbanger and a piece of shit and a criminal and turning it all around isn't inspirational. 0.67

01:35:39.000 So, I know that's off-topic, and I'm not trying to throw you off, but actually, well done to you, because... 0.94

01:35:43.000 A lot of people, and I've met a lot of them, don't end up where you are today, given those circumstances.

01:35:49.000 Most of my friends are still in jail.

01:35:50.000 I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

01:35:52.000 I appreciate you saying that. Well, I didn't know it until you introduced yourself.

01:35:55.000 I literally didn't even know. Okay, well, thank you very much.

01:35:59.000 I've been very transparent about my past, as transparent as I can be, and a lot of my friends are still either in prison on drugs or in gangs, so a lot of people don't make it out of that world, so thank you.

01:36:10.000 But I am trying to do right, but this is something that I really care about.

01:36:15.000 I've been in violent situations.

01:36:16.000 I've been targeted.

01:36:18.000 I've been held hostage at gunpoint.

01:36:20.000 I've been beaten, bashed.

01:36:22.000 I know what it's like to be a victim.

01:36:23.000 I've also victimized people, and I think that they're both... 0.99

01:36:26.000 It's wrong. They're wrong to do.

01:36:28.000 I know you're making a distinction between humans and animals, but if I saw someone back then, let me ask you this.

01:36:36.000 If I was being cruel to a dog in front of you, say I had a hot iron and I was putting it in their eye and they were squealing and that, you would just feel nothing?

01:36:44.000 No, if you're working at a dog factory, killing the dog so you can eat it, I would not care, because it's your dog, your farm, your business, your factory, your life.

01:36:54.000 I'm a free market capitalist, and if you're a producer of dog meat, all well and good.

01:36:58.000 If I saw you torturing anything for any reason, I'd say, well, what's the point in that?

01:37:04.000 What's the benefit? Are you providing anyone with a meal?

01:37:06.000 Are you providing anyone with food, sustenance? 1.00

01:37:08.000 No, you're just being a dick. 0.99

01:37:10.000 So yeah, I would have a go at someone... 0.99

01:37:12.000 Well, let's just say that I have plant-based food available to me.

01:37:15.000 There's plenty of plant-based food available to me.

01:37:17.000 I'm torturing them because- Because you want to eat them?

01:37:20.000 Because I just made the choice to over the plant-based food.

01:37:25.000 I'm deciding I want to torture them to eat them because it's basically just a flippant choice.

01:37:30.000 I could eat plant food, but I don't really like it as much. 0.74

01:37:33.000 I like torturing animals and eating them.

01:37:35.000 I mean, I love vegetables, but I also love eating meat.

01:37:39.000 And that's how free market capitalism works.

01:37:41.000 You see, Joey, I think a lot of people like you, and I don't mean to offend you, they think that they can educate somebody like me. 0.92

01:37:48.000 They think I'm some big dumb thug, and they think that... 0.93

01:37:51.000 I don't know where my food comes from. 0.95

01:37:53.000 And they think they're going to show me videos of certain factory farms and talk to me of the processes in which chickens lay eggs and the cages they're kept in.

01:38:01.000 And I'm going to go, oh my God, this is wrong.

01:38:04.000 But that's not the way I'm programmed.

01:38:05.000 If I was super interested in feudal Japanese history...

01:38:09.000 And I went to all the feudal Japanese history conventions and spoke about it in every conversation when I got drunk with my friends, which I tend to do. 0.97

01:38:16.000 And you looked at me and said, Tristan, I just don't give a shit about feudal Japanese history. 0.98

01:38:19.000 I don't care. It's not an issue I care about. 0.98

01:38:21.000 I don't want to learn about it.

01:38:22.000 I don't want to know about it. I'd say, you know what?

01:38:24.000 Good for you. Veganism is one of these things that you believe you could actually convince somebody like me because you think you can open my eyes.

01:38:32.000 My eyes are wide open.

01:38:34.000 One of my friends is in this house right now.

01:38:35.000 I used to work at a slaughterhouse. My eyes are open.

01:38:37.000 I know exactly where my food comes from.

01:38:39.000 And I do not value the lives of cattle and animals produced for food.

01:38:44.000 I just don't. I value them in the way that they provide sustenance for people to eat.

01:38:50.000 I actually run a charity which provides food for children in war-torn countries.

01:38:54.000 TatePledge.com if anyone wants to check it out. 0.98

01:38:56.000 And I don't give a shit If it's beef or if it's corn, as long as people are eating. 0.98

01:39:03.000 That's the way that I think about things. 0.99

01:39:05.000 So you can't really open my eyes to this, because I don't think there's many things you know that I am ignorant of.

01:39:13.000 Well, I mean, I don't think you've ever been inside of these places, have you?

01:39:18.000 I've been inside of pig farms and chicken farms.

01:39:21.000 I've never been inside of a cattle farm, no.

01:39:24.000 Not myself. I've seen you on a pig farm, backyard pig farm or something in Romania, like with one or two pigs there.

01:39:30.000 Well, no, no, that wasn't a pig farm.

01:39:32.000 I've been inside a real pig farm in England when I was younger.

01:39:34.000 A factory? Yeah. A factory pig farm?

01:39:36.000 Yeah, I was doing delivery drives with some guy.

01:39:39.000 So I've been inside.

01:39:40.000 But again, I've seen all the videos.

01:39:42.000 I've seen all the images. I've killed pigs myself. 0.99

01:39:45.000 I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not one of these people. 0.99

01:39:48.000 You know what? Shout out to this guy.

01:39:50.000 He probably doesn't remember me. There was a guy on the island with me when I was in that reality TV show.

01:39:54.000 And some people said, I'm not going to kill the pig.

01:39:56.000 I'm not going to eat the pig. And some people said, I'm going to actively take part in the killing of the pig and I'm going to eat the pig. 0.98

01:40:02.000 Obviously, the killing was done by me because I was the one of the producers most trusted as the most competent person on the island.

01:40:06.000 But there was one or two people there who said, you know what? 0.98

01:40:09.000 I don't want to be around when the pig is killed. 0.97

01:40:10.000 I don't want to be around when we have to strip it and gut it and cut off its skin. 0.98

01:40:14.000 But I am going to eat it. 0.99

01:40:16.000 And I think we could both agree that that's hypocritical. 0.96

01:40:21.000 If they're going to eat it. 0.91

01:40:23.000 You need to know the reality of where your food comes from.

01:40:27.000 One is displaying normal human emotion.

01:40:29.000 You're displaying something that is close to, I would say, people who tend to not care about the suffering of animals.

01:40:37.000 You don't take pleasure in cruelty to animals, do you?

01:40:40.000 Really? Is that a serious question?

01:40:44.000 It is a serious question because most people don't have your position that they don't care how cruel someone is to animals.

01:40:51.000 I could do anything to animals as long as I'm going to eat them.

01:40:55.000 That is not my position. I think if you're going to kill animals, you should kill them in the most humane way possible. 0.99

01:40:59.000 I said there is no killing of an animal without cruelty. 1.00

01:41:03.000 Yeah, yeah. Okay, philosophically, yes, if you believe it's cruel to kill, like without suffering, like the act of killing is cruel in and of itself because you're robbing them of their life.

01:41:12.000 Absolutely. So it justifies it because you're eating it.

01:41:14.000 But you also said factory farming is an amazing invention, even though it's just basically an infinite suffering machine that's like dead birds dying on their faces and pigs suffering to death on the floor of their own, like laying in their own feces, like mothers like stuck in cages and like piglets being smacked on the ground and then like their heads...

01:41:33.000 Like, on the concrete.

01:41:34.000 Like, horrible places here.

01:41:36.000 I know. You say mothers, though, but I feel like the language you use is trying to get some sort of emotional response.

01:41:41.000 Mothers. I have a mother. You have a mother. 1.00

01:41:42.000 There's the mother of my children who I care deeply about.

01:41:45.000 It's a chicken. And I do...

01:41:48.000 Yeah. Well, it's a pig. 0.99

01:41:50.000 It's a cow. Yeah. 0.94

01:41:51.000 But it's a wonderful, wonderful system that anywhere I go in the world, I can ask for a plate of chicken and somebody can get me chicken and cook it for me and put it on my plate.

01:42:02.000 Now, factory farming plays a massive role in that, whether anyone likes it or not.

01:42:07.000 So it is very impressive.

01:42:09.000 Back when my parents were growing up, you had seasonal vegetables.

01:42:12.000 You couldn't even get oranges in the winter.

01:42:15.000 And now, any time of any year in any city in the civilized world, I can get a steak.

01:42:21.000 I eat steak every day. I think that's a beautiful thing.

01:42:23.000 Now, I understand that factory farms are a part of this system. 0.97

01:42:26.000 When I say the system is incredibly impressive because I can eat steak whenever I like, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit at a factory farm and get my dick out and get off on the fact that all these cows are being tortured.

01:42:37.000 I'm not a sadistic person, but I understand that it's part of the system, the wonderful system of global food supply. 0.71

01:42:45.000 And I love steak.

01:42:46.000 So would I abolish factory farms?

01:42:48.000 No. Sorry to interrupt you.

01:42:51.000 I mean, I just was, I'm just actually very surprised that you know so much about the industry.

01:42:56.000 Like, if you know as much as I know.

01:42:58.000 Yes. And you're calling it wonderful because it's like something like, you know, I've been in some pretty horrible situations and I've seen some pretty horrible, like, videos, like, but when I... Became an investigator and seen what goes on in these places.

01:43:12.000 It is some of the most disgusting, vile, horrific violence and cruelty and stench of corpses. 0.98

01:43:22.000 They die in their own feces, these animals. 0.76

01:43:25.000 These chickens are six weeks old.

01:43:27.000 They grow so quick.

01:43:29.000 Sorry, they just grow so quickly that they break their own legs and they lay there suffering to death, like millions of birds die before they even get to the slaughterhouse.

01:43:37.000 And to call that wonderful just seems like maybe you just think the technology is wonderful or something, but inside there, if you've seen all the footage, I don't know how wonderful can come to your mind.

01:43:50.000 And most people that I've ever spoken to, and they've actually done research on this, they've done massive polls, most people are against factory farming.

01:43:58.000 Yeah, they say they are.

01:44:00.000 And then people talk about, oh, you have to get rid of farming because of climate change.

01:44:03.000 Yeah, let's get rid of all the farms. 0.57

01:44:04.000 That's a wonderful idea. And I know you're going to say, well, we could grow a bunch of beans, but I don't want to eat beans, and I don't want to eat crickets, and I don't want to eat plant-based food.

01:44:13.000 I want to eat meat, and factory farms are part of the supply chain.

01:44:16.000 It's not that a factory farm itself is beautiful.

01:44:19.000 You have to understand these are all intricate wheels in a system which gives people the ability to have whatever food they like on whatever plate they like in whatever city they like globally.

01:44:28.000 So I find that impressive.

01:44:30.000 That's an impressive feat of human ingenuity.

01:44:33.000 And to take that argument and say, oh, Tristan's the kind of guy who loves factory farms and thinks they're beautiful is actually not what I said.

01:44:40.000 One. And two, my next question would be, did you think that I don't know stuff before you spoke to me?

01:44:47.000 Because you seem surprised. I know a lot.

01:44:49.000 Do people think I'm stupid? 1.00

01:44:51.000 I don't get it. Some people do. 1.00

01:44:52.000 No, I don't think you're stupid. 0.98

01:44:54.000 I think you're very bright and I think you've been well-educated and you speak very coherently and you have a higher intelligence than a lot of people that I speak to. 1.00

01:45:04.000 And every pig and every cow.

01:45:07.000 What I do come across, though, is people who think they know about what goes on, but have just seen a few videos here and there.

01:45:16.000 But maybe just being there in that visceral stench and hearing the murmuring of the animals and seeing them dying on their faces might pull you off of the position that this is just a wonderful invention where I get to have meat wherever I want in the country.

01:45:32.000 Zero percent. In the world.

01:45:33.000 And zero percent. No, I understand the realities of where my food comes from.

01:45:36.000 And I think a lot of people do.

01:45:39.000 That's my point about the...

01:45:40.000 I think a lot of people do.

01:45:42.000 I think that a lot of people watching right now are going to learn a thing or two.

01:45:45.000 And I don't think anyone who listens to me and follows me is going to think, oh, I better convert to veganism.

01:45:50.000 I believe that you can be a vegan if you like.

01:45:52.000 I don't mind if you're a vegan.

01:45:54.000 But you mind if I eat meat.

01:45:57.000 Exactly. And I'll tell you why.

01:45:58.000 It's not because I'm trying to control people or whatever.

01:46:00.000 People think that I want to control.

01:46:01.000 Oh, why do you care what I eat?

01:46:02.000 I see this a lot. Vegans are trying to control what I eat.

01:46:04.000 They're weirdos. Like people think veganism is some diet. 0.80

01:46:07.000 Like it's just a diet, you know, like I choose to be carnivore.

01:46:09.000 You can be whole foods.

01:46:11.000 You can have a raw diet.

01:46:12.000 And I choose to be a vegan.

01:46:13.000 Like it's a diet choice. It's actually, we care what people consume because on the other end of that, animals are being raised, mutilated, um, cause that This is factory farming suffering and then they are murdered in like a gas chamber or a slaughterhouse filled with blood in order to meet that demand.

01:46:31.000 So people are collectively making up that demand and so we are trying to stop people from making up that demand so the animals can stop being bred into infinite torture and then murder.

01:46:41.000 Well, some people never will because we understand that very well and I think that Yeah.

01:46:46.000 Let's move on to something that we might agree on because I think that you've got your points across.

01:46:51.000 And this is what I meant, by the way, when I said it's not going to be much of a debate because I don't really have anything to say, oh, you shouldn't be vegan and you shouldn't preach it because X, Y, Z and, you know, factory farming is 100% great and there's no suffering involved.

01:47:04.000 I'm not one of those people.

01:47:05.000 I understand reality.

01:47:06.000 This is why I don't think there was ever much of a debate to be had in the first place.

01:47:09.000 Because I'm just one of those people who understands the world exceptionally well.

01:47:12.000 I understand where my food comes exceptionally well.

01:47:14.000 I think that is acceptable for it to be this way.

01:47:17.000 And that's just the way it is.

01:47:19.000 So let's change subject. Because I think you're going to like this one.

01:47:22.000 Let's talk about trophy hunting.

01:47:25.000 Because I think we'll find a lot more common ground with trophy hunting than with the food that I eat.

01:47:30.000 Because I'm never going to agree with you that I care at all about how a chicken is treated.

01:47:35.000 I just won't. But we can move on and maybe we can be friends again.

01:47:39.000 Well, yeah, we can move on.

01:47:41.000 We can. Or take me back.

01:47:43.000 We can talk about trophy hunting.

01:47:45.000 I really want to just ask you this.

01:47:48.000 I can do whatever I want to a bird, a chicken.

01:47:52.000 I can grab a chicken...

01:47:54.000 I can slowly pluck their feathers out and they can be screaming. 0.99

01:47:58.000 I can burn them and singe them.

01:47:59.000 And then I can do that to 10,000 chickens, one after the other, in just this infinite loop of torture, right? 0.98

01:48:06.000 I can just do that continuously.

01:48:08.000 And all you have to do is move your hand over a button to stop it.

01:48:13.000 Would you do that, just stop that suffering, or you just don't care even that much?

01:48:16.000 You could just push a button and I'd stop.

01:48:18.000 Well, one, you couldn't do that to my chickens, because if I had chickens, they live in my garden, etc., and I just cut their heads off.

01:48:25.000 In fact, when I killed chickens before, I broke their necks and cut their heads off.

01:48:28.000 That's what I did. I took no pleasure in torturing animals. 0.83

01:48:31.000 I think that anyone who takes pleasure in torturing anything, there's probably something a little bit wrong with them.

01:48:35.000 Who cares?

01:48:37.000 I genuinely don't care that much as a chicken.

01:48:41.000 You don't eat KFC for health, though, do you?

01:48:43.000 You eat KFC for pleasure.

01:48:46.000 Yeah, KFC. We can talk about protein in that, but you eat KFC for pleasure, don't you?

01:48:52.000 I do. You choose KFC for pleasure.

01:48:54.000 Absolutely. So how is eating KFC for pleasure different to what I'm doing for pleasure?

01:49:00.000 Say I got pleasure out of torturing these animals.

01:49:01.000 It gave me sensory pleasure.

01:49:03.000 I really like them squealing or whatever.

01:49:05.000 You really like the taste of KFC, and these animals are suffering in horrible factory farms in order to bring you that KFC. How is what you're doing any different to what I'm doing?

01:49:13.000 Let me restructure your question. 0.57

01:49:14.000 If I could push a button and stop it, and by stopping it, it means you just take a big butcher's knife and cut the chicken's heads off.

01:49:22.000 Then I would push that button, because why would I want anything to be tortured?

01:49:26.000 I don't see the point in it.

01:49:27.000 But if you were just raising them in cages, as a lot of places in Africa, and a lot of places in Argentina, and all the places where our meat comes from in the world, where they try to raise animals as many as they can, as fast as they can, and as small a space as they can, these people who are very hard-working people, I think we'll all agree, who are trying to make their living, who if you shut down their factory farm probably wouldn't have much else to do, who are taking these chickens and treating them carelessly, and if they're killing them in a relatively humane way,

01:49:56.000 I mean, Islam gives a guide on how to kill animals, and I know everyone's like, oh, that's cruel because it's with a knife. 0.99

01:50:01.000 Well, there were no bolt guns invented in the time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. 1.00

01:50:05.000 So the guidance is actually very, very good.

01:50:08.000 Don't let the animals see the knife, etc.

01:50:09.000 There's nobody on earth who would choose having the animal tortured as opposed to killed as humanely as possible.

01:50:17.000 But if you were running a factory farm and you were a Chinese man in Wuhan and you were sick of your life and you were cruelly kicking your chickens all day and whipping them, I wouldn't come to your farm and tell you how to run your chicken farm. 0.99

01:50:29.000 And I would probably still buy your chicken.

01:50:31.000 I don't put the lives of chickens.

01:50:33.000 You would fund me. If I was torturing the chickens, you would go, here, mate, here's 20 bucks, give us a couple of those chickens, and you'd keep me in business.

01:50:41.000 How cheap are they? Just about an average bucket of chickens.

01:50:46.000 I don't care about chickens.

01:50:49.000 I don't care about chickens.

01:50:52.000 They suffer the same as other animals, is what I'm saying.

01:50:55.000 They have a brain, a functioning nervous system.

01:50:57.000 They feel they want to avoid pain.

01:51:01.000 Of course they do. They are sentient beings.

01:51:03.000 Of course they do. Yes. I just don't see them any different to any other bird or any other animal.

01:51:10.000 I don't know why you make a distinction between a pig and a dog.

01:51:12.000 These are both animals who are having a subjective experience.

01:51:15.000 If you can't make that distinction over the example I gave you earlier about every single life form that is farmed on a farm being created by humans and selectively bred for a reason... 0.97

01:51:25.000 And that dogs were bred to be your friend, provide companionship, go hunting with, and pigs were bred to get as big as possible, as fast as possible, so we can kill them.

01:51:33.000 If you really can't see the distinction between a pig and a dog, that's okay. 0.71

01:51:37.000 Because if people eat dogs, I don't care that they eat dogs.

01:51:41.000 I'm not going to eat my dog.

01:51:42.000 I like my dog. My dog is my friend.

01:51:44.000 I don't care if a pig is smart. 1.00

01:51:45.000 If I had a pig, it would be for food. 1.00

01:51:47.000 But I don't eat pork anyway.

01:51:48.000 We're just using pigs as an example. 1.00

01:51:50.000 But I'd happily eat a cow and kill a cow. 1.00

01:51:52.000 I have no problem with that. 0.99

01:51:54.000 And nobody is ever going to change my mind.

01:51:56.000 I think that this is the attitude that a lot of vegans don't really know exists out there in the world.

01:52:00.000 Between the millions and millions of people who they think they can convince with some slaughterhouse video, we don't care about chickens.

01:52:08.000 We don't care. We eat them.

01:52:10.000 That's what they're for. The people that...

01:52:12.000 I know you keep saying you don't care.

01:52:14.000 I mean, obviously, if you did care, it would be extremely hard to continue that behaviour.

01:52:19.000 Because when I was in gangs, for example, we had to not care about the enemy.

01:52:25.000 And if you did start to care about the enemy, you couldn't really do what you had to do.

01:52:30.000 So you had to put this shield up.

01:52:32.000 And this shield helped you get through what you had to get through.

01:52:36.000 If you started caring, basically you couldn't be a very good person in the gang world, you couldn't be a very good soldier if you always cared, but you have to actually have this feeling of not caring for these animals, knowing that they suffer and they're harmed and they're slaughtered and all this stuff.

01:52:53.000 If you did care, you wouldn't be able to eat the animals, and I do care, and there's probably a bunch of people watching this who actually...

01:52:59.000 So if they do, if someone who is what, I'm not, obviously you're not to be convinced of this, but if there's people that are watching who do care about the experiences of other animals and do see them as, you know, valuable in their own right because they have a conscious experience, then those people shouldn't be consuming animal products, right? The ones who do care.

01:53:21.000 Um... No, no.

01:53:24.000 I believe that we live in a modern world and the world is completely detached.

01:53:27.000 Unfortunately, the supply and demand world and the way that we get our products is entirely detached from the system that creates them.

01:53:33.000 I believe if someone actually really likes chickens and wouldn't harm a chicken themselves and they continue to want to eat chicken...

01:53:39.000 That doesn't bother me at all.

01:53:40.000 Just in the way that if you're wearing a pair of Nike sneakers and you don't care that some child in China sold them or you use an iPhone and you don't care about the appalling conditions at the iPhone factories and you continue to use your iPhone, yeah, you'd rather not.

01:53:52.000 You'd rather it be made by happy, smart people getting paid $400 an hour.

01:53:56.000 I'm sure you would. So would I. But the world of supply and demand, this isn't communism.

01:54:00.000 The state doesn't produce everything.

01:54:01.000 We live in a world of competition and things are produced in the way that they're produced so everyone can get their hands on everything.

01:54:06.000 And it's a beautiful system if you have enough money.

01:54:08.000 So, no, I would not tell people who care about chickens to stop eating chicken, to answer your question.

01:54:15.000 Okay, you'd just say you can care about chickens and do what happens to them in order to get KFC, and those things, they're in harmony.

01:54:25.000 Caring about chickens and buying KFC are in harmony?

01:54:27.000 Yeah. I think it's a complete contradiction.

01:54:32.000 You can't care about...

01:54:33.000 Even for you, Tristan, you can't care about animals being tortured while you're paying for their torture.

01:54:39.000 I buy a lot of alligator skin shoes.

01:54:42.000 I know how cruel those alligator farms are.

01:54:45.000 Yeah, and that's nothing to do with food.

01:54:47.000 Wait a second, brother.

01:54:50.000 That is a very good point, actually, because you wear cows as well, which has nothing to do with eating.

01:54:56.000 I do wear cows. Well, it's a human utility.

01:54:59.000 Everyone needs leather. Yeah, but it's interesting.

01:55:01.000 We don't need leather.

01:55:03.000 Obviously, there are other fabrics.

01:55:05.000 There are synthetic fabrics today, but they haven't existed for very long.

01:55:09.000 And you know that. Yeah, but they exist now.

01:55:12.000 But my question to you is because I'm not trying to do a gotcha or anything, but this is actually just a bit different.

01:55:18.000 Because I said food, if you're going to eat them.

01:55:20.000 No, you said it's fine to be as cruel as you basically want, so long as you're getting food from these animals, right?

01:55:29.000 And I'm not misinterpreting what you said.

01:55:32.000 So the shoes made out of, say, cow's skin. 0.73

01:55:36.000 Or alligator leather. That's not food.

01:55:39.000 That's their skin. True.

01:55:41.000 Yeah, well, we're using the end product.

01:55:43.000 We raise the cow to be an end product.

01:55:44.000 So I did say food, but this isn't a gotcha moment because if you want to kill, because the cows that are killed for leather aren't eaten.

01:55:50.000 Everyone knows that. It's too expensive to raise them. 0.93

01:55:52.000 It's too expensive to raise the cows with the high quality hides.

01:55:55.000 You have to have them at certain elevations to make the car seats in, for example, a Bugatti or a Rolls Royce.

01:56:00.000 And they don't eat the meat because it's not financially viable to cart them off and then chop them up because it's too cheap.

01:56:05.000 I mean, they usually don't eat the meat.

01:56:07.000 Let's say the cows are completely discarded.

01:56:08.000 Yeah, fine. You raised a cow for leather. 1.00

01:56:11.000 It's fine to kill white cows for their skin. 0.99

01:56:16.000 100%. And in India where they trek them across like long treks and they're suffering and then they export that leather, it's fine to buy that leather, just animals suffering like really horrible lives just for leather, yeah?

01:56:28.000 Yes. And when calves are skinned and like little calves are skinned for their calf skin, that's fine too, baby cows, just to wear them.

01:56:38.000 Yes. Even though there's like other options available, that's all cool.

01:56:41.000 I mean, there are other options available, but I don't think you have a pair of shoes as cool as my alligator skin shoes.

01:56:46.000 I think my shoes are better than your shoes.

01:56:49.000 Well, I don't know.

01:56:51.000 I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer had a pretty nice human skin shoes.

01:56:56.000 I wouldn't be seen dead in a pair of human skin shoes. 1.00

01:56:59.000 Of course not, but a human and an alligator aren't the same thing, so here we are back at square one.

01:57:03.000 I like my alligator skin shoes.

01:57:05.000 In fact, an alligator skin is exceptionally cruel because they have to raise them to be the exact same size.

01:57:11.000 No good pair of alligator skin shoes is made from one alligator.

01:57:14.000 You need two because you need the patterns on the front to be exactly the same.

01:57:18.000 And they're killed at a specific age, depending on what your shoe size is, depending if you get them custom made.

01:57:22.000 So it's particularly cruel.

01:57:23.000 But I like my alligator skin shoes.

01:57:25.000 That's what the alligators are raised for.

01:57:26.000 The alligators weren't happily walking around in the wild when someone saw them and said, I'm going to make a pair of shoes out of this guy.

01:57:31.000 You know? What they did was they farmed them, they raised them, they made my shoes, and I love the end product.

01:57:36.000 And I do not feel sorry for those alligators at all.

01:57:39.000 And I never will. So basically, as long as we get pleasure from the action or some kind of satisfaction.

01:57:44.000 As long as we get some goods. Yeah, some goods from the action.

01:57:46.000 Some goods from the action.

01:57:48.000 Gelatin, bone marrow, skin, leather.

01:57:51.000 I'm down with it. Anything we want to...

01:57:53.000 If I had an animal right here on stream, I could have an animal right here.

01:57:58.000 The cows are highly sentient beings like dogs.

01:58:01.000 They care for their young.

01:58:03.000 They experience all the basic experiences we do as human beings.

01:58:06.000 We might have a...

01:58:08.000 Some intelligence over cows, but most basic experiences...

01:58:13.000 I have a lot. Well, there are human beings that...

01:58:17.000 Well, how about this? There are human beings that have about the sentience of a cow and about the experience of a cow, and they're born like that.

01:58:23.000 We protect them with human rights.

01:58:25.000 Made in the image of God.

01:58:27.000 Okay, yeah, but if they weren't made in the image of God and you couldn't tell them apart from other humans, would it be okay to skin them alive and make shoes out of them? 0.93

01:58:34.000 I mean, you know I have a distinction between animal life and human life.

01:58:37.000 We've been over this a hundred times.

01:58:38.000 You're saying that I think we should be able to skin people with mental deficiencies to make shoes out of them, and that's my argument? 1.00

01:58:44.000 How about this? How about if these human beings were just...

01:58:48.000 They weren't made in the image of God.

01:58:50.000 They were farmed, and they were...

01:58:54.000 We were somehow creating a farm of human beings, so they're not made in the image of God.

01:58:59.000 We were creating them, and you couldn't tell the difference between us and them in terms of our experience.

01:59:05.000 We're basically hominids, and these people existed on this farm.

01:59:09.000 It's fine for me to torture them because they're not made in the image of God.

01:59:12.000 If you can't distinguish between human life and animal life, then I feel very sorry for you.

01:59:16.000 Because I'm a father. I have kids.

01:59:18.000 My daughter is maybe not as smart as a dog. 0.65

01:59:22.000 She's only two. Do I think you should be able to make shoes out of my daughter? 1.00

01:59:26.000 Is that what you're saying? Because I don't think anyone...

01:59:29.000 I'm creating a hypothetical.

01:59:30.000 Well, we're not hypotheticals because we live in the real world, don't we?

01:59:34.000 I've given lots of hypotheticals, but I don't like to go down the hypothetical route.

01:59:37.000 I said if I could kill animals without torturing them and without being cruel and it would be ideal if they could all live wonderful lives, I could give hypotheticals too.

01:59:44.000 But we live in the real world. We live in the world of supply and demand. 0.93

01:59:46.000 We live in the world where third world people are trying to get the best living they can by raising animals as fast as they can in as big numbers as we can. 1.00

01:59:53.000 And... It's fine.

01:59:54.000 It's really fine. I believe it's fine.

01:59:56.000 You don't eat animals for third world people, that's for sure.

01:59:58.000 You eat animals because you like the taste and it's for pleasure and things like that.

02:00:02.000 But I was just creating a hypothetical to test this.

02:00:04.000 I'm trying to test... It's just a consistency test, by the way.

02:00:08.000 It's just trying to test whether or not if there were human beings that weren't made in the image of God and we sort of created them, because this is actually logically possible.

02:00:17.000 So if I may...

02:00:20.000 If I had made a human farm, basically, they're my human beings.

02:00:22.000 Is it okay for me to cut them up?

02:00:24.000 You couldn't distinguish them from...

02:00:26.000 Well, this is actually... You know what?

02:00:27.000 This is actually a very, very interesting point.

02:00:30.000 This is a very interesting point.

02:00:32.000 And we are, as humans, going down this road.

02:00:35.000 So we might find some common ground here.

02:00:38.000 Because people are talking about raising humans that are, for example, you.

02:00:41.000 They'll take your DNA code and raise a human without the brain or mind or consciousness or whatever so that you could have access to that human's liver or heart.

02:00:50.000 I don't believe in that case.

02:00:53.000 No, humans are humans, and I don't believe that we should be doing that.

02:00:56.000 I believe humans are making the image of God, and I don't believe if you start a farm raising humans for organs, for organ transplants, which is an area of science that is being explored right now, do I think that's right?

02:01:07.000 No, I don't believe in abortion.

02:01:09.000 I don't believe in harvesting the body parts of babies who are eight months or seven months old when they're aborted to take their tissue and their skin and their bone to run human experiments on.

02:01:21.000 No, I think that's all morally evil because humans are humans or animals are animals.

02:01:25.000 And I'll always have a distinction between them.

02:01:28.000 Yeah, but I was just trying to create this scenario so that they weren't actually made in the image of God to see if that was actually the trait.

02:01:37.000 Every human is created in the image of God.

02:01:39.000 No, because if we created them, they're made in our own image so we could farm them to be slightly genetically different.

02:01:46.000 I created my daughter.

02:01:49.000 In fact, humans have been far to be genetically different.

02:01:52.000 Humans have been far to be genetically different.

02:01:54.000 Then they wouldn't be technically made in the image of God, would they then, Tristan? 0.97

02:02:00.000 See, you're going down a road that just has a dead end.

02:02:03.000 They are humans. I'm just trying to find out So I'm the descendant of African-American slaves.

02:02:07.000 African-American slaves were the product of eugenics programs, of breeding programs, where they got the biggest, strongest slaves and the biggest, strongest women, and interbred them to create bigger, stronger slaves. 0.99

02:02:17.000 And it was all a big market. And that was completely wrong.

02:02:20.000 And there's been slave trades everywhere.

02:02:21.000 North Africa being one of the world's largest.

02:02:22.000 China, the United States, the slave trades have existed all over the world.

02:02:25.000 If you're saying because I think it's fine to farm cows that I think it's fine to farm people, I'm never, ever going to agree with you.

02:02:31.000 Humans are humans and animals are animals.

02:02:34.000 I don't know if you think that.

02:02:36.000 I'm trying to find out whether you feel that if this trait made in God's image didn't exist, like in some hypothetical, whether you would think it's okay to do what we do to animals to those hypothetical humans.

02:02:48.000 You'll never convince you that that is a scenario that exists.

02:02:52.000 It can never exist. Every human is made in the image of God.

02:02:56.000 Well, basically, we can do this.

02:02:58.000 We did these animals that exist right now.

02:03:00.000 They're selectively bred. They're not made how God made them.

02:03:03.000 They're human-created animals.

02:03:04.000 You know about the pigs and the chickens and the cows and the dairy producers.

02:03:08.000 They're all human-selectively bred freak shows at the moment.

02:03:13.000 This is eugenics, like genetic manipulation that humans have done to these non-human animals. 0.96

02:03:19.000 In fact, being a chicken is just a life of suffering because they're too big to hold their own weight.

02:03:23.000 Now, we do this to animals.

02:03:25.000 It is logically possible, and it's just possible for us to do this to human beings as well, and they wouldn't technically be made in God's image.

02:03:31.000 It's okay to do what we do to animals.

02:03:34.000 In this case, in this hypothetical case of human beings, I'm trying to figure it out.

02:03:38.000 Because that case exists all the time, and that case is actually the case right now, right here in the world.

02:03:42.000 If I'm dating a girl because I think she's big and strong and I want to have big, strong children, people make these kind of choices all the time.

02:03:48.000 Are you saying that that child is selectively bred and we can use her to make a pair of shoes?

02:03:51.000 Humans are humans, animals are animals.

02:03:53.000 I can actually cut it off one step before this.

02:03:56.000 I could cut it off at the step, whereas I think if any weirdo was selectively breeding humans for any reason, then no, humans have free will and free agency, and they should be able to reproduce with whoever they want.

02:04:05.000 If any human is selectively breeding humans, then that's slavery, and slavery is wrong in the first place.

02:04:10.000 So we should never even get there if we care about morals and humanity.

02:04:14.000 Well, I just apply the morals consistently.

02:04:18.000 Yeah, but it's a cow. I mean, it doesn't matter if they are human or non-human.

02:04:22.000 And in this case, in the hypothetical case, they would technically be non-human hybrids. 0.65

02:04:28.000 So I'm just asking for consistency in both places.

02:04:34.000 Obviously, I don't think it's right to enslave animals and decapitate them because I don't see them as morally distinct from...

02:04:41.000 Human sentient beings, like, not really, like, especially when you get down to the sentience of, like, children and that.

02:04:48.000 A child and a pig are pretty, like, even in terms of sentience.

02:04:52.000 To you. Especially, like, a toddler.

02:04:54.000 To you. Not to me.

02:04:56.000 Yeah, well, I mean, you might have other reasons to care about human beings.

02:04:59.000 No. No, it doesn't matter if it's a child born in China who I've never seen in my life.

02:05:05.000 Humans or humans or animals or animals.

02:05:06.000 No one in my chat thinks you're coming to a conclusion with this point because this hypothetical scenario you talk about where we selectively bred humans for thousands of years to create mutant humans.

02:05:15.000 Could you eat them? Could you eat an animal that has some human DNA? I mean, this has never happened and this isn't the real world that we live on.

02:05:22.000 This is the real world that we live in.

02:05:24.000 I just didn't believe that being made in God's image was the only morally relevant trait.

02:05:30.000 It's not.

02:05:32.000 My argument is that it doesn't have to be morally relevant.

02:05:34.000 Cows and chickens are beneath me, and they're beneath humans, and I don't care.

02:05:38.000 I don't care about cows and chickens in the same way that I care about humans, and I never will.

02:05:42.000 Or crocodiles, or any life form.

02:05:44.000 Some people have actually thought that way about human beings as well.

02:05:47.000 They've lowered human beings down and used these bizarre justifications to do horrible things to human beings.

02:05:53.000 I'm the product of slaves myself.

02:05:54.000 I'm the product of the slave trade.

02:05:56.000 My father was an African-American. Which is a horrible, horrible... 1.00

02:05:58.000 Yeah. So why are you trying to correlate these two things with food production?

02:06:07.000 I'm saying that what has happened in history...

02:06:09.000 Because the lowest form of every argument is, you're Hitler.

02:06:12.000 That's how all arguments dissolve into.

02:06:15.000 And now you're talking about the Holocaust. 0.65

02:06:17.000 No, I'm saying that these things have happened in history.

02:06:20.000 No, I'm saying that the mindset definitely is...

02:06:23.000 Yeah, and that's morally wrong. Where we say these beings don't matter because of X. Well, who says that?

02:06:29.000 God doesn't think that.

02:06:31.000 Well, people with these kind of...

02:06:34.000 Animals are obviously sentient beings.

02:06:35.000 You know they can experience torture and suffering and experience the world.

02:06:38.000 They have a subjective experience.

02:06:39.000 If I harmed an animal, everyone knows that that's animal cruelty.

02:06:41.000 That's wrong because they're having their own individual experience.

02:06:44.000 And what people tend to do is they go, they're below me because of X reason, because they're not made in God's image or they're not humans and we are superior so we can do whatever we want throughout history.

02:06:55.000 And it's what humans have used to justify harming other humans.

02:06:59.000 Yeah, I know it's a bad mindset.

02:07:00.000 I agree that's a bad mindset.

02:07:01.000 So where is this going?

02:07:04.000 Well, I'm just asking to apply, like, a more consistent mindset.

02:07:08.000 To cows? To chickens? That's not consistent.

02:07:10.000 Yeah, exactly. I mean, you might think it's stupid, but I don't see a cow as any different to other sentient beings. 0.94

02:07:15.000 Like, I don't see them as any real difference in terms of their suffering. 0.97

02:07:18.000 And there we go. And there we go. You don't see a cow's difference.

02:07:20.000 That's what I said. Do you believe that human lives and animals are exactly the same?

02:07:24.000 In terms of how they experience, like, a knife in the throat, it's just as bad for that cow as it is for, like, a child.

02:07:30.000 So I think they're both wrong, you know?

02:07:33.000 That's the food chain. Sharks don't care how I feel.

02:07:35.000 They bit me in half either. Yeah, but I mean, I don't think what sharks do is like ethical.

02:07:40.000 I wouldn't mimic my behavior and go, hey, you know, sharks, they eat other sharks and lions eat other lions' cubs.

02:07:46.000 Horrible things happen in nature.

02:07:47.000 I would never point to nature and say that's an ethical way of us living in civilization.

02:07:50.000 Obviously, that would justify us killing each other and eating each other. 0.61

02:07:54.000 Cannibalism happens in nature.

02:07:55.000 Look, cannibalism is wrong. And if you're going to ever try to drag the argument of humans are in some way equal to animals, so we shouldn't treat humans this way, so we shouldn't treat animals in this way.

02:08:04.000 If that is going to be the baseline of this last 10 minutes that you keep going on about, that's never going to be a conclusion that someone like me is going to reach.

02:08:10.000 And it's not going to be a conclusion that any healthy person is going to reach either.

02:08:14.000 No healthy person is going to ever think that ever.

02:08:18.000 Ever. So, I mean, you keep looking for...

02:08:21.000 I don't know what you're looking for me to say.

02:08:23.000 I don't know if you... I'm just trying to figure out what you fundamentally believe is like...

02:08:29.000 Killing humans is wrong. 0.94

02:08:30.000 Killing animals is fine. That's what I fundamentally believe. 0.99

02:08:33.000 Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to figure out why...

02:08:35.000 Because to me, that's a contradiction.

02:08:37.000 Because for the same...

02:08:38.000 I'm trying to figure out why it's okay in this case.

02:08:41.000 Most people disagree with you.

02:08:44.000 Most people don't think killing dogs is okay, but you think killing dogs is absolutely fine.

02:08:48.000 I think if someone wants to kill their dog, it's fine by me.

02:08:50.000 I'm not going to tell them not to. It's their dog. 0.60

02:08:52.000 And in the case of these animals in poaching that you brought up as well, you have an issue with trophy hunting, it was.

02:09:02.000 It's not so much an issue.

02:09:04.000 So we might find common ground, because I'm glad that's over, because I'm never ever going to correlate animal life and human life.

02:09:09.000 That's just not a conclusion that I'm going to reach, or I don't think any healthy person is ever going to reach.

02:09:14.000 So fishing for something down that well is always going to be non-productive.

02:09:18.000 Not that you'd go fishing. Vegan joke there? 0.99

02:09:21.000 No. I'm hilarious. It's a bad joke.

02:09:23.000 I thought it was quite funny. I thought it was funny.

02:09:25.000 Okay, fine. Yusuf laughed.

02:09:26.000 I wouldn't go fishing for humans, that's for sure.

02:09:28.000 My tech guy laughed.

02:09:29.000 That was a good joke. You know, trophy hunting...

02:09:33.000 I think that trophy hunting is unfair.

02:09:38.000 I like predators.

02:09:42.000 I respect bears and lions, sharks.

02:09:45.000 I respect elephants.

02:09:46.000 I respect them because they're mightier than the human.

02:09:49.000 If I could subdue an entire population of cows and have them run across the field because I have a dog chase after them and I could raise them for food, good.

02:09:55.000 I made the cows.

02:09:56.000 I created the cows.

02:09:57.000 Going out there and shooting elephants, I don't think is a fair fight.

02:10:02.000 And I think that vegans and people like me should get together and say, let's change the rules of trophy hunting.

02:10:10.000 So you have to fight the animal in a fair way.

02:10:14.000 Is that an improvement on shooting them with guns?

02:10:18.000 No, I think depending on what the animal is, we should use different weapons.

02:10:24.000 I mean, fight a lion with your bare hands or fight an elephant with your bare hands?

02:10:28.000 What I'm saying, if someone says to me, these big fat Americans usually, sorry Americans if you're listening, but it's usually you, they take these pictures next to these lions with their rifle, like they're some sort of champion.

02:10:41.000 No, no, no, no, no.

02:10:42.000 If you wanna go fight a lion, I think you should have, I don't know, a sword and a shield or a suit of armor and two knives.

02:10:48.000 Because then at least if you do it, I can respect you.

02:10:51.000 If I walk into someone's head and they have a lion's head mounted on the wall, even me, I'd be a bit like, well, what did you do that for?

02:10:58.000 And it'd be like, well, I shot it from six miles away Hunting's natural. Hunting may be natural, but your gun certainly isn't.

02:11:04.000 Two knives, suit of armor, go and kill the lion. 1.00

02:11:07.000 Because that way, if I walk into your house, you've got a lion's head on the wall, and you're covered in scars and bruises and cuts. 1.00

02:11:11.000 I'd be like, you're the fucking man. 1.00

02:11:14.000 That's impressive. Can we at least agree that we should change the rules on weaponry? 0.99

02:11:20.000 Because fewer people would do it.

02:11:22.000 If someone fights a lion with their bare hands and wins, then I think they deserve some kind of medal because that's an unheard of thing.

02:11:29.000 Good. So let's explain that we need to change the rules.

02:11:31.000 So should we change the rules on factory farming as well?

02:11:35.000 Because we seem to use these beings to escape.

02:11:37.000 We bring them into these prisons and we send them into slaughterhouses where they can't escape.

02:11:43.000 Don't you think we should change the rules there too?

02:11:45.000 Nope. Not at all.

02:11:47.000 I think if you could somehow viably run a lion factory farm or an elephant factory farm, all credit to you. 1.00

02:11:53.000 If you manage to pull that off, well done.

02:11:55.000 So no, I don't think we should. How about this?

02:11:57.000 Go on. How about this, Tristan? We liberate all of the animals in the factory farm situation, the cows and pigs, chickens and lambs, and even the ones that are going to the slaughterhouse, and the only meat you eat is if you fight a lion with your bare hands and win.

02:12:12.000 No, that's just stupid. 0.98

02:12:14.000 Why would I need to fight a lion with my bare hands and win to enjoy a bucket of KFC? Because it's unfair. 1.00

02:12:22.000 The entire ecosystem. No, it's fair.

02:12:25.000 It's fair. The man killing the chickens is perfectly entitled and he created the chickens.

02:12:28.000 I'm not against lion factory farms.

02:12:32.000 Find a way. Wait a second.

02:12:34.000 I thought God created the animals, one.

02:12:36.000 And we're not even eating animals that were created by God, two.

02:12:39.000 If you're a God-fearing, like, a Christian, these animals are created by human beings and they're genetically bred freak shows. 1.00

02:12:45.000 So is every vegetable. So is every fruit.

02:12:50.000 God created animals to feel pain and suffer with a brain and a nervous system and all that, if you believe that.

02:12:54.000 Why did God create animals to suffer and also experience well-being and happiness and good feelings?

02:13:00.000 Your argument broke down in the first five seconds because you're saying, oh, it's unnatural because these animals are created by humans by selective breeding.

02:13:08.000 So is every vegetable and fruit that you eat.

02:13:10.000 Every one. I'm talking about the beings that matter morally, like sentient animals.

02:13:18.000 Apple, chicken, apple, I don't care.

02:13:20.000 God created apples not to suffer.

02:13:22.000 No brain, no central nervous system, no pain receptors, no eyes, so there's no nerves.

02:13:28.000 Obviously, that seems like something you can eat without causing them any pain and suffering.

02:13:32.000 Yeah, but I don't care about chickens.

02:13:34.000 I know chickens suffer. What I'm asking is, you talked about the Bible and about animals being in the Bible that we can eat, right?

02:13:42.000 But these animals are nothing to do with God.

02:13:44.000 These animals are human-selectively-bred freak shows.

02:13:47.000 It's more like the work of the devil.

02:13:48.000 We're talking about suffering.

02:13:51.000 We know it's the work of man.

02:13:52.000 You know the devil didn't build the factory farm, and the devil didn't create the modified chicken.

02:13:57.000 If you looked in a factory farm and seen a bunch of chickens suffering on their faces and overgrown bodies, would you say that's the work of God?

02:14:05.000 No, it's the work of man.

02:14:08.000 So men can do evil things?

02:14:10.000 I thought, if you believe in God...

02:14:12.000 It would be evil if you did it to people.

02:14:14.000 chickens I don't care about.

02:14:16.000 So it's only, so basically anything bad that happens to animals is not evil and not, not the devil's work.

02:14:23.000 It's human work.

02:14:24.000 But anything bad that happens to humans is the devil's work.

02:14:26.000 You started this by saying that you are, no, not everything bad that if I'm, if an alligator eats me, that's not Satan, that's nature.

02:14:32.000 And I'm talking about factory farms, like just, just looking at the footage, right?

02:14:35.000 Cause anyone can go watch factory farm footage right now.

02:14:38.000 They can go look at my investigations in my uncovered series. They can look at that, right?

02:14:42.000 And just, if you're, if you're, if you're a religious person, like say you're Muslim, you're Christian, whatever, look in, look in that factory farm, look in that slaughterhouse of the suffering and the animals dying in their own blood and go, is that God or the devil?

02:14:53.000 Well, I think you're falling on your face here because we started this argument with you saying that you don't believe in a God.

02:14:58.000 And now you're trying to say, oh, but it's wrong what happens to chickens.

02:15:01.000 So is that the devil?

02:15:02.000 And now you're invoking the devil on man-made farming processes, which feed millions of people worldwide.

02:15:06.000 And I'm very grateful for them.

02:15:08.000 And that's the work of man.

02:15:12.000 And I love chickens. I'm just fitting the beliefs of others because in Islam actually, you brought up Islam before, but in Islam there's actually like a little bit of something about animal welfare in their religion where they believe that causing animal suffering and cruelty is Islam, right?

02:15:26.000 And I speak to Muslims quite a lot and we have actually quite productive discussions.

02:15:32.000 Wonderful. Now they at least believe that causing animal suffering and cruelty is wrong, is Morally wrong and it's haram.

02:15:40.000 You can't eat that flesh, right?

02:15:42.000 Are you a Muslim? No, I'm not a Muslim. 0.99

02:15:45.000 Why are you invoking their arguments here?

02:15:48.000 Because you brought up...

02:15:51.000 I live with two. There's one right here next to me.

02:15:53.000 Yeah, I know Andrew's a Muslim as well now.

02:15:55.000 Okay, but what I'm saying is that you don't even believe that causing animals cruelty in factory farms is wrong and you brought up Islam before and said, oh, they just slit the animals' throats, right? 0.88

02:16:05.000 And you believe that's a good way of doing it?

02:16:06.000 Yes. Yeah?

02:16:08.000 Yeah. So, what I'm saying is in Islam, you can't even be... 1.00

02:16:12.000 You can't... Every point...

02:16:14.000 Factory farms are... See, I feel like I've met...

02:16:16.000 When I said there was never going to be any debate, I think every point that you've tried to raise, we're just going back to things I said within the first 20 minutes. 0.99

02:16:22.000 If you can kill them as humanely as possible, that would be good. 0.99

02:16:30.000 That's what I said an hour ago. 1.00

02:16:32.000 So factory farms are bad?

02:16:34.000 because they cause the animals suffering, yeah?

02:16:36.000 No, they're not bad.

02:16:38.000 So it's just morally neutral.

02:16:40.000 Factory farms are morally neutral, but cutting an animal's head off without them being cruel is better.

02:16:46.000 It's better, yeah.

02:16:47.000 It's better.

02:16:48.000 So one is good, would you call the suffering in the factory farms good?

02:16:51.000 It's all good.

02:16:52.000 I can get food everywhere in the world that I want, and factory farms are part of the supply and demand food chain.

02:16:56.000 It's a wonderful thing that we can feed all these people on the planet.

02:16:59.000 It's a wonderful thing that there are fewer people starving and dying of hunger than there ever was before at any point in human history, that we've managed to take many people in the third world, especially in modern day China, thanks to factory farms, and take them out of poverty and give them the ability to eat food, mainly meat.

02:17:14.000 every single day. I think it's a wonderful thing, yes.

02:17:16.000 And you'll never change my mind otherwise.

02:17:18.000 Factory farms are fine by me, and I know what goes on, and I've seen them, and I don't care.

02:17:22.000 It's a chicken. It's a chicken, bro.

02:17:25.000 Like, seriously, I just don't care.

02:17:29.000 Actually, you can't say that now because you did care a little bit.

02:17:32.000 You cared enough to stop me torturing them.

02:17:35.000 You cared enough to stop me torturing them.

02:17:37.000 When I created a chicken torture-like scenario, you did care a little bit.

02:17:42.000 I see the glimmer of empathy in you, bro.

02:17:44.000 You like hypotheticals, and if you're going to torture chickens after this feed and message me that you're torturing chickens, I'm going to turn my phone off and go and live my life.

02:17:52.000 You want to do that? 0.99

02:17:53.000 That's fucked up, but go right ahead. 0.99

02:17:56.000 What do I do? Drive over to where you are and tackle you to save the chicken? 1.00

02:18:03.000 If I'm doing it for a bucket of chicken, isn't that like fine with you?

02:18:06.000 That's what I was...

02:18:07.000 That's what I thought your position was.

02:18:09.000 Yeah, factory farm that produces chicken for us tweet is completely fine.

02:18:13.000 Okay. Well, okay.

02:18:16.000 Should we do some finishing statements or do you want to continue?

02:18:19.000 Is there any other roads you want to go down with?

02:18:21.000 I don't know if you believe the same...

02:18:24.000 There were generally no roads I wanted to go down at the beginning of this.

02:18:27.000 I think I said at the beginning that this wasn't going to be a debate because I'm not an uninformed person who's going to hear what you have to say and go, oh my god, wow, oh wow, maybe I should stop beating me.

02:18:38.000 I know all the things that you know already.

02:18:40.000 And eating animals is perfectly fine.

02:18:42.000 I don't care about animals like I care about humans.

02:18:45.000 Humans are morally superior.

02:18:46.000 Humans were given dominion over this earth by God and we were created in God's image and humans are sacred.

02:18:51.000 So all of your arguments about what if humans were farmed in this way and, you know, animals, what if I just tortured them for fun?

02:18:58.000 That's not what I do.

02:19:00.000 I'm not the guy who says it's fun to torture animals, and I love torturing animals, so I'm going to debate this vegan.

02:19:06.000 I'm a guy who has a healthy relationship with food and a healthy relationship with meat.

02:19:09.000 I understand where it comes from, and I simply don't care about a chicken like I do about humans.

02:19:14.000 So there was never really a debate in the first place, but your fans insisted I debate you.

02:19:18.000 But I don't really see where we disagree, because I know the things you know.

02:19:23.000 Yeah, well, we disagree on that animals have no value whatsoever and they're beneath us and we can do what we want to them.

02:19:28.000 Oh, animals have... Wear them and eat them.

02:19:30.000 Animals have value. I didn't say animals have no value.

02:19:33.000 Can we talk about masculinity for just before you...

02:19:36.000 I don't know if you want to keep going down this road, but I just want to know what your views on masculinity are.

02:19:42.000 My views on masculinity...

02:19:43.000 The reason I'm asking... Go ahead, please.

02:19:45.000 I'd like to know the reason you're asking.

02:19:46.000 Because if it's about chickens... It's not a trap.

02:19:49.000 I mean, yeah. I'm just trying to figure out what you...

02:19:51.000 It's not really a trap.

02:19:53.000 I'm just trying to figure out... I don't mind if it's a trap.

02:19:56.000 Yeah, I know. You're going to say that because I'm not masculine.

02:19:59.000 I mean, that's your opinion.

02:20:00.000 It's fine. I don't care.

02:20:02.000 No, no. I just want to figure out because in my view, basically figuring out whether or not you think being masculine is being a protector or helping the vulnerable, those that we perceive as – like you perceive animals as below you.

02:20:17.000 They're basically... They're at our mercy.

02:20:20.000 We can do what we want to them, these birds.

02:20:21.000 They're very fragile. They are tiny.

02:20:25.000 We can crush them with our boot.

02:20:28.000 Do you think that it is a...

02:20:30.000 Like eating meat, eating these animals is like a form of masculinity or does it make you more of a man or anything like that?

02:20:37.000 No, I don't believe that.

02:20:38.000 I'm not one of these guys who says, oh, you have to eat meat to be a man.

02:20:41.000 To be a man, you have to live by your own convictions and you have to stand by your own convictions.

02:20:46.000 I feel like the question is wired in a way, and I don't want it, to spiral back down that toilet of, oh, but babies and humans are less vulnerable, so, you know, chickens and humans.

02:20:56.000 I don't want to spiral back down that same toilet bowl.

02:20:59.000 But being a man is about living by your own convictions, standing up and saying, this is what I believe in, being ready to challenge people and their beliefs, being happy to talk to people, like I'm talking to you now when a bunch of internet trolls say you're scared to debate veganism, when it's an issue I don't really care about.

02:21:13.000 But being able to stand up, say what you mean, mean what you say, that's what being a man is about. 0.93

02:21:20.000 I'm not saying you have to go around and stab, oh, I stabbed a pig, I'm so macho. 0.80

02:21:24.000 I mean, it's not an easy thing to do. 0.97

02:21:27.000 Just like punching someone in the face isn't an easy thing to do.

02:21:29.000 You've punched plenty of people in the face and so have I, I'm sure.

02:21:32.000 But that's the nature of the reality of the world that we live in.

02:21:36.000 So no, I'm not going to even fall into the trap of saying you have to eat meat to be a man.

02:21:41.000 Because, you know, when I've seen you argue with people, people look...

02:21:44.000 That's scared of you a bit, intimidated by you a bit, and you stand up there anyway, no matter what someone says.

02:21:50.000 If someone's eating a burger in your face, you say, no, I think this is wrong, and I'm going to travel around the world and say that this is wrong as much as I want to.

02:21:57.000 That is being a man, and credit for you for doing it.

02:22:00.000 If you want to go around the world and preach this for the rest of your life, which I assume you will, then all power to you, but you're never, ever, ever I'm never going to convince people like me because there are smart people out there who know everything about the meat industry you do.

02:22:14.000 You can't hit us with any eye-openers.

02:22:16.000 You can't hit us with any weird hypotheticals about non-human humans because that's just not real.

02:22:21.000 And I'm going to shrug my shoulders.

02:22:23.000 I'm going to hang up this call after we finish amicably saying goodbye to each other.

02:22:27.000 And I'm going to go and eat whatever I like.

02:22:28.000 And you're going to eat whatever you like.

02:22:30.000 And you're not going to be able to change my mind.

02:22:32.000 So be a man, say what you mean, mean what you say, and travel around the world and continue doing it.

02:22:36.000 But you're going to have zero success when it comes to people like me.

02:22:39.000 I don't care. And, you know, Tristan, coming into this, I actually already knew that.

02:22:45.000 I just really, like, appreciated...

02:22:47.000 I just want to say I really appreciate you having this discussion with me on your platform.

02:22:51.000 Because you didn't have to.

02:22:52.000 You didn't have to do anything.

02:22:54.000 I didn't have to. Even if people say, oh, you're scared of this, you didn't have to have me on your platform with all of your...

02:22:59.000 Tens of thousands of people watching this right now.

02:23:01.000 I really am appreciative of that, and I'm glad that you don't...

02:23:04.000 You're not saying, oh, you have to eat meat to be a man or whatever like that. 0.92

02:23:07.000 I mean, because I think it's actually pathetic if people think that what you put in your mouth makes you more of a protector or more of a man or thinks it makes you any less of a man to care about this issue. 0.97

02:23:15.000 You're just saying you don't care about animals. 0.98

02:23:17.000 I disagree. I do care about vulnerable beings, and that's why I try to protect them, okay?

02:23:22.000 And if anyone was stomping on an animal, provided like, you know, like I was in their vicinity, I would rush in and help and I'd get bashed trying to help an animal from being forced to come.

02:23:33.000 And again, if I saw a man stepping on a dog, I wouldn't walk past smiling.

02:23:37.000 So I know we can go down these same arguments again and again and again and again.

02:23:41.000 But I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere with this.

02:23:44.000 So... 0.94

02:23:47.000 I just was trying to figure out your views on masculinity, and if you're saying it doesn't make you more or less of a man, if you've got to eat steak to be a man, eating steak is manly or whatever, something stupid like that, or if you eat vegan, you're going to be feminized or turn into a woman or something like this. 0.94

02:24:05.000 I have said the exact opposite. 0.97

02:24:07.000 I saw this fat soy dork standing at his barbecue grill in his Crocs, in his shorts, in his low-income house, flipping these burgers, being like, oh yeah, I'm such a man because I could barbecue. 1.00

02:24:18.000 I'm like, you think that makes you a man? 1.00

02:24:20.000 Bro, you look like a middle-aged fat lesbian. 1.00

02:24:22.000 What's wrong with you? You're not a man. 1.00

02:24:23.000 If I came into your house and stole your burgers, you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

02:24:26.000 Not that... I mean, yeah.

02:24:30.000 So I've actually said the exact opposite a few times.

02:24:32.000 No, I don't think it's mutually exclusive.

02:24:34.000 Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter.

02:24:37.000 You can be a vegan and be a man and protect the vulnerable, protect your family, and if you had to bear arms and go to war and protect the vulnerable, protect your children, there's a stereotype that just because you care about other animals that aren't dogs or whatever, that makes you less of a man or whatever.

02:24:57.000 I know a lot of your...

02:24:59.000 Your following, they listen to what you say.

02:25:03.000 They really do, mate.

02:25:04.000 You've got a huge influence and people respect you a lot.

02:25:08.000 I look at all of your comments. I look at your following.

02:25:09.000 It's massive. Thank you. People respect you and something about you that they listen to.

02:25:15.000 I was just hoping that there's some people that listen to you that... 0.99

02:25:20.000 That you might be able to sort of bring them off of this at least this anti-vegan stereotype kind of thing where people are, if you're a vegan, you're a bitch or if you're a vegan, you're part of the matrix or you've fallen for some propaganda or you're like, you know how people bring all that shit. 0.79

02:25:35.000 Really, it just fundamentally could mean that people just care about the experience of animals that people just don't generally care about. 0.94

02:25:41.000 So, I mean... It's the exact same point I made about Japanese history earlier.

02:25:45.000 Like, people have different passions and people have different things that they fight for.

02:25:48.000 I know you think this is super important and the whole world needs to care.

02:25:52.000 Some people don't care.

02:25:53.000 Some people don't care about the things that I say or the things that I do.

02:25:56.000 And that's the way it is. But no, I think that most people I know who I would describe as bitches, to use your word, this guy's a bitch, because 99% of people eat meat, especially where I live, then 99% of the people I meet are bitches. 1.00

02:26:09.000 So I wouldn't say it's mutually exclusive. 0.99

02:26:11.000 No. Read.

02:26:12.000 Be smart. Be a man. Don't be afraid of standing up for your values.

02:26:15.000 Train yourself. Become physically strong.

02:26:17.000 Protect and provide for the people who you care about.

02:26:19.000 The people who you care about.

02:26:21.000 I think that's what makes you a man. And if you want to be a vegan, I truly don't care.

02:26:24.000 Which is why I started this off with, this isn't a debate.

02:26:27.000 Because I have no real disagreement on what you're doing.

02:26:32.000 It's been a discussion, though, and I think it's been, like, more than what you thought it might be.

02:26:36.000 I thought you were just going to come in and say you don't care.

02:26:38.000 It's all fine. I don't care.

02:26:39.000 And then, like, it wouldn't be. But we have actually got into more of a discussion than maybe you expected, yeah?

02:26:44.000 Yeah, I mean, more my position is that I don't care.

02:26:46.000 And I think I've maintained that quite well.

02:26:48.000 But, yeah, I think that we both know a lot about this topic, which is why I thought I'd sit and talk to you.

02:26:53.000 Because I imagine that, especially the people watching on YouTube, I can imagine what your comment section is like.

02:26:57.000 This guy's a meathead. 1.00

02:26:58.000 This guy's stupid. This guy is X, Y, and Z. And they thought I'd sit here and be like, oh, what? 1.00

02:27:03.000 Animals are treated badly to make my food?

02:27:06.000 I just thought I'll just put it out there.

02:27:07.000 Let's have a nice, reasonable discussion.

02:27:09.000 And we have had a reasonable discussion.

02:27:10.000 There hasn't been a single bad word exchange between us before this, and I don't imagine there will be after this.

02:27:15.000 I imagine your fans will attack me, though.

02:27:17.000 And my fans might attack you.

02:27:19.000 That's nature of the internet. Yeah, I mean, they probably already are.

02:27:21.000 They're probably going, oh! They're probably...

02:27:23.000 Look, we're both going to...

02:27:25.000 I'll probably get it worse than you because you've got a much larger following.

02:27:28.000 But look, giving me the time to...

02:27:32.000 And also, you watch the gas chamber footage on my Twitter.

02:27:36.000 I did that expose.

02:27:37.000 I went and risked my life and stuck the cameras in that gas chamber while it had gas in it and brought out the images from the pigs, the first of its kind in the UK. So you saw that.

02:27:47.000 So you know what goes on.

02:27:48.000 I always have.

02:27:50.000 You know it's riddled with cruelty.

02:27:52.000 If people care about animals, they should probably care about that issue.

02:27:56.000 It's just that you don't care about the animals. 1.00

02:27:59.000 You don't give a shit. If people have any iota of care, Then they should probably stop funding that industry. 0.99

02:28:08.000 But that's not you. If that's your final point, then I'll let you finish on that final point without trying to correct you or interject.

02:28:15.000 I mean, obviously, I know that you being on my podcast is me sharing my platform with you.

02:28:20.000 And if you've convinced someone to not eat animals, then more power to you.

02:28:24.000 So is that it?

02:28:27.000 Well, Tristan, I mean, that can be it, mate.

02:28:30.000 I just want to say thank you so much for allowing me on.

02:28:32.000 And people were saying I was giving you a platform.

02:28:33.000 You were definitely giving me a platform.

02:28:35.000 Thank you. I'm glad we agree on that.

02:28:37.000 We didn't have to. And look, mate, if you ever...

02:28:41.000 I mean, maybe this is not a good idea, because you probably wouldn't care, but if you ever want to come into one of these farms with me when you're in the UK, or catch up, have a vegan burger or something like that, then please.

02:28:50.000 Mate, I would love to. Now you're baiting me.

02:28:52.000 Now you're baiting me. Yeah, I could bring you into these places.

02:28:56.000 Like, it would be a good video, mate, if you actually see what's going on inside there and have that.

02:29:00.000 And maybe you just go, I don't care still.

02:29:01.000 I won't care. Maybe you might.

02:29:02.000 I super don't care. Send me every video you make for the rest of your life, and I will continue to eat meat, as will most of my followers.

02:29:09.000 So... Why don't you share it on your platform and see how many people don't care with you?

02:29:14.000 Well, everyone who has any issue and anyone who has any point who they're trying to get across wants to share my platform and they want me to promote their stuff.

02:29:22.000 Now, I'm going to promote the things that are applicable to me in my life and the things I want to share with the world.

02:29:27.000 You share the things that you want to share with the world.

02:29:29.000 And we'll leave it at that.

02:29:31.000 And I wish you a happy and healthy vegan life.

02:29:34.000 And I will continue to keep eating meat.

02:29:36.000 God bless you, Joey. Thank you for joining me.

02:29:38.000 I'm going to continue this stream without you for a while.

02:29:40.000 Have a nice night. Take care, mate. Thank you very much.

02:29:43.000 Bye-bye. So, why did I debate Joey Carbstrong?

02:29:50.000 It wasn't really a debate.

02:29:52.000 The only reason I gave this guy a platform is, one, he was very respectful, very kind.

02:29:57.000 I didn't seem to have any problem with anything he said to me ever, despite his fans attacking me for all sorts of various reasons.

02:30:03.000 I just knew that it was very important for vegans out there who are usually into cornering people with hypothetical arguments and arguments that don't apply to the real world.

02:30:14.000 Or giving people ridiculous arguments like, oh, well, you know, what if your child was used to make shoes?

02:30:19.000 Or a version of that.

02:30:20.000 Needed to actually encounter somebody in the world who has a healthy mindset, who stays healthy and fit, likes to eat meat, and simply doesn't see the world the same way he does.

02:30:31.000 And, you know, it's fine to see the world in a different way because I have over 30-something thousand people watching this.

02:30:37.000 And let me tell you, all of us, if we spoke about various issues, whether it be politics, wars...

02:30:44.000 Weapons, food, we'll all have different opinions and we'll all see things in a very different way.

02:30:49.000 But I think it is good for the vegans watching this to know that There are lots of people who are smart enough to understand where their food comes from.

02:30:57.000 There are a lot of people who understand exactly what makes it possible to get the steak and the chicken and the things that they like to eat on their plate.

02:31:03.000 And we think it's perfectly fine, perfectly justifiable, and we simply don't care.

02:31:07.000 So I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Mr.

02:31:11.000 Joey Carbstrom.

02:31:13.000 And I finished my cigar and probably four cigarettes by now.

02:31:16.000 So that's going to be it.

02:31:18.000 I'm not going to take anyone else on the stream.

02:31:20.000 I have no one else that I particularly want to call right now.

02:31:22.000 It's getting late. It's now almost one o'clock in the morning.

02:31:24.000 So this has been another Tristan Tate cigar night.

02:31:27.000 I hope you enjoyed it. Even those of you who hated my guest, I can see you in the chat.

Tate Speech - July 19, 2023

Cigar Night Q&A with Tristan Tate | Ep.5

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