In this episode I give you a quick introduction to the game and walkthrough of the game. I also give you some tips and tricks on how to get started with the game! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE so you can get notified when I upload a new episode every Sunday night. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey with me. I am so excited to see where it takes us and I hope that you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed writing it! I hope you enjoy the walkthrough and that it gives you some insight into the game as a whole. XOXO, xoxo - P.S. I apologize for the background noise in the beginning of the episode. I am still trying to figure out how to work out the kinks in this game. I will be working on this and hopefully it won t be as bad as it has been so far! Xoxo, I will do my best to make it as good as I can! -P.S.. I apologize in advance for the sound quality, I am working on making sure the audio is better than it has ever been in this episode before. -p.s. I know it s going to get better and better over the next few episodes, but I m working on that! . Xxoxo. xOXOXO - - I m going to do a walkthrough on the game, so please help me out with the audio! :D - xxoxoxo xxo - -XOXO , (p. I m looking forward to working on the next episode! xo, xo :P - (P.E. , XOXo, P.A. - XO - XO, Xo, XO. ( & XO- P. ) - xo - XxO (XO, xO , P.O. XO - Xo ) - XXO ( xO (xO ) XO ( ) - , xo ( ) <3 and XO(XO-XO( ) xO(xO) . . (Xo, I m doing a little bit of a walk through of the Game)
00:16:55.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:02.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:09.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:16.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:23.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:30.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:37.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:44.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:51.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:17:58.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:05.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:12.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:19.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:26.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:33.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:40.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:47.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:18:54.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:01.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:08.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:15.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:22.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:29.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:36.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:43.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:50.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:19:57.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:20:04.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:20:11.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:20:18.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:20:25.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a walkthrough of this.
00:20:31.000So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it. So, I'm going to play a little bit of it.
00:20:36.000So, I'm going to play a little bit of it.
00:41:53.000So, I'm going to be doing a little bit of a commentary on this. I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:00.000I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story. So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:07.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:12.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:17.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:24.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:29.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:42:34.000So, I'm going to be talking about the game, and I'm going to be talking about the story.
00:57:29.000I sit down, I smoke a cigar, I listen to your questions, I go through questions I've been asked earlier on Twitter and on other platforms, and I do my best to give some knowledge and some insight into what it is that you are asking me.
00:57:42.000But today is a slightly different episode because as I smoke this cigar, which I'm going to go into in a moment, I've decided to have a special guest on.
00:57:50.000Our guest is a man who goes by the name of Joey Carbstrong.
00:57:53.000He is a vegan activist, I would say, and a vegan himself.
00:58:02.000I mentioned the fact that I follow people that I disagree with.
00:58:05.000I follow vegans, white supremacists, black supremacists, all sorts of racist accounts.
00:58:10.000And everyone was reprimanding me saying, you can't endorse these people.
00:58:13.000And I said, no, no. I follow people who I have disagreements with because it makes Twitter more interesting.
00:58:19.000And somebody said, why don't you debate Joey Carbstrong on veganism?
00:58:22.000Now, my first reaction was, why would I debate on veganism?
00:58:25.000I didn't understand why anyone wanted to see me debate on veganism because I'm not really that interested in the topic, to be perfectly honest.
00:58:33.000I myself am not a vegan, but I don't really care who is, so I didn't see the need for a debate and I voiced that concern on Twitter.
00:58:40.000And Joey, for all those watching on Rumble, 10,000 of you now, I want to let you know has been very polite and very respectful, but his fans were not.
00:58:49.000His fans obviously attacked me on Twitter, as is the nature of the internet.
00:58:52.000Believe me, my skin's thick enough to put up with it by now.
00:58:55.000And said, oh, you're scared to debate him on veganism.
00:58:58.000You're scared to debate him on veganism.
00:58:59.000And I thought, you know what? One, I'm not scared of talking to anybody about any topic.
00:59:09.000Let's have him on the podcast and let's see what he thinks or what he wants me to think or what he wants everyone in the world who eats meat to think.
00:59:17.000So you never know. At the end of this podcast, I may declare myself a vegan.
00:59:20.000I don't know. I've done no debate preparation because veganism isn't something that I study or prepare for.
00:59:25.000To very quickly introduce my cigar, this is a Hoyo de Monterey Double Corona.
00:59:31.000It's about as large as Cuban cigars get.
00:59:32.000So I've gone with a very big Cuban cigar tonight because I don't feel this conversation is going to be over with very quickly.
00:59:38.000And I'm going to put on my headphones in just a second.
00:59:41.000I know you're listening Joey, so I'm going to, when you appear on screen, give you a chance to introduce yourself to everybody, I guess, in my audience who may or may not know who you are.
01:00:56.000Yeah, so basically, my social media handle is Joey Carbstrong, but I changed my name from Armstrong to Carbstrong after I left gangs, come out of prison.
01:01:04.000Spent about six months in prison for firearms.
01:01:08.000I was on the streets from 14 onwards and got involved in drugs, gangs.
01:01:13.000Then we got into high-level organized crime, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia and landed myself in prison.
01:01:51.000And I had this seed planted about karma and hypocrisy.
01:01:55.000Like, I'd just seen people that were like, save the whales, save the dolphins.
01:01:59.000They were against palm oil because it kills chimpanzees, but they were eating like a cow.
01:02:04.000And I was like... You're a hypocrite, at least I can admit it.
01:02:07.000I'm eating steak right now and I can see the hypocrisy.
01:02:11.000And that's what, like when I got sober and aligned my, sort of got my head clear and I started changing my trajectory in my life, I aligned my actions with my morals and went vegan.
01:02:22.000I've always been outspoken and I've been an outspoken activist ever since.
01:02:27.000So I'm not your typical... Kind of pasty-faced, stereotypical vegan.
01:02:33.000People like to say, I'm actually a bit different to what people perceive as vegans.
01:02:38.000I don't know how people perceive vegans.
01:02:39.000Vegans are from all different walks of life.
01:02:42.000They're just different. Everyone is different.
01:02:44.000I've meat that is a vegan. They're all different.
01:04:26.000He's not here, so we're not here to talk about Andrew's views.
01:04:28.000interviews were talking to you. But you know, you did chime in on a couple of times when Andrew was talking about his problems with vegans and vegetarians or people that don't eat meat and how he doesn't respect them and things like that. But then you were talking about the problem with veganism and talking about how vegans not only kill more animals, they also shouldn't expect everyone in the world to be vegan and you talked about the Yeah.
01:04:56.000I see. It was a very small talking point to me.
01:04:59.000And obviously on my last live stream, if anyone saw, I was making a bunch of jokes about Irish people.
01:05:03.000And my Irish friend was sitting here with me.
01:05:05.000So it's not something exclusive that I do to pick on the vegan community.
01:05:09.000I like to have a good laugh at everybody.
01:05:10.000I think that's how we, you know, stay friendly.
01:05:12.000I make jokes about all the things I am, certainly.
01:05:16.000So if the vegan community, you know, obviously watched that and took that personal, then good, because I guess now here you are speaking to me.
01:06:11.000Do you hold any religious beliefs before we start?
01:06:14.000That would be interesting. Or are you an atheist?
01:06:17.000No, I don't. I don't claim to know everything about the universe.
01:06:22.000I'm more agnostic. I don't know, but I do lean towards...
01:06:26.000It's a very bizarre world we live in and it's very hard for me to Come to terms with it being a cosmic accident.
01:06:34.000But at the same time, I've had some spiritual awakenings in my life through my hard journey and violence and pulling myself out of addiction and things like that.
01:06:42.000And I've sometimes felt like someone was watching over me.
01:06:44.000But to say that I'm practicing some kind of religion, I don't think so, no.
01:06:51.000I understand. Because I feel like a lot of the hard lines that people are scared of debating these days, I mean, there's lots of different debates on LGBTQ rights in the community, etc.
01:06:59.000And people who are, for example, Muslims will have their hard lines on it and say, well, my religious belief is this.
01:07:04.000You shouldn't be questioning my religious belief.
01:08:19.000I'm just saying, how would you counter that argument?
01:08:21.000Because people don't like to go against people's religious hard lines.
01:08:24.000Yeah, I mean, I just want to know what you believe, but I want to know what you believe, Tristan, because there's a lot of people with different beliefs out there, but I want to know, because I'm really interested in, because I've seen, I've been following you, I've been watching, and maybe, I don't know if you've been watching anything that I talk about or whatever, but I've been watching a little bit about...
01:08:39.000I saw you on Piers Morgan. You do care.
01:08:41.000I saw you on Piers Morgan. You do care.
01:08:43.000Yeah, but Piers Morgan pretends like he doesn't care.
01:08:45.000Like, he cares, he thinks he cares about bees and all that sort of shit.
01:08:48.000He doesn't... No one cares about bees.
01:10:46.000Yeah, so I'll actually cover this for five seconds first because someone sent me a link to a fake website that allegedly sells dog meat.
01:10:55.000It has a bunch of pictures of cute dogs next to what is clearly steak and sausages.
01:10:59.000And they're saying, we sell this dog meat.
01:11:01.000And someone sent me this As a joke to troll me.
01:11:04.000And I've sent them a message saying, Hi, do you ship internationally?
01:11:07.000I'm interested in buying some dog meat to Romania.
01:11:09.000And I posted a screenshot on the Twitter argument.
01:11:11.000It was a joke, as in, if someone's selling dog meat, I don't care what they do.
01:11:15.000But Elwood's dog meat, and I kind of...
01:11:17.000I wish I hadn't given them the shout out because they sold the story to the newspaper that I genuinely thought they were a dog meat farm and I stupidly was trying to buy dog meat because I'm evil.
01:11:28.000And the newspapers obviously which print anything bad about me printed it.
01:11:31.000And I was like for God's sake I wish I didn't contact those people because it was a joke.
01:11:35.000I wasn't actually trying to buy dog meat from them.
01:14:51.000But don't worry, I bought a pack of cigarettes, so if I run out of cigar, I'm still going to stay online and keep this conversation flowing.
01:15:17.000You can't hear me? I can hear you perfectly fine.
01:15:19.000That's wonderful. So the question that we just finished is we were talking about the dog meat farm that trolled me and sold the story to the newspaper.
01:15:27.000And I was saying that I don't particularly care if somebody eats their own dog and that the dog meat festivals that happen in China, etc.
01:15:34.000I don't want to go there and stop them from doing it.
01:15:38.000So I guess why should I? Well, why do you?
01:15:42.000You've got a photographic memory, mate.
01:16:00.000So it doesn't matter if that human being is my friend.
01:16:04.000It would matter more to me if they were my family.
01:16:06.000Yes, I would attack with violent force if necessary to defend them.
01:16:09.000But it also matters to me what happens to people I don't know.
01:16:12.000So in the same case with dogs, if I've seen someone attacking a dog, being cruel to a dog, then I'm going to probably run up and punch him in the head just as I would if they were my own dog.
01:16:20.000Because I'd be like, what are you doing and what reason do you have to do that?
01:16:24.000When you talk about other cultures doing something horrible to animals, it doesn't matter to me that it's their culture.
01:16:30.000It doesn't justify doing something bad just because it's your culture.
01:16:33.000There are good things about certain cultures.
01:16:35.000There are also bad things about certain cultures and it doesn't morally justify an action just because it's cultural or whatever.
01:16:41.000So my question to you is, do you only care about...
01:16:45.000Because I asked you about the dog charity.
01:16:48.000Not every dog at that charity is your dog.
01:16:51.000True? Well, that's true, but I completely finance it and the dogs are rescued from the streets.
01:16:56.000And you're saying, like, doing cruel things to animals.
01:16:59.000Just because I eat meat doesn't mean that I advocate animal cruelty for no reason.
01:17:13.000I've killed pigs with knives, in fact, on a part of a reality TV show.
01:17:17.000So I'm not a coward. I know exactly where my food comes from.
01:17:20.000But to say about animal cruelty for no reason, to add that into the mix, I think is a bit disingenuous because I'm not talking about kicking dogs.
01:17:27.000I'm talking about the charity that I run prevents animal cruelty because it prevents animals from being on the street.
01:17:33.000But that is not the same as people who run dog meat farms raising dogs for meat because I understand what they're raising those dogs for.
01:17:39.000And they're perfectly entitled to do that.
01:18:31.000I don't think you should cut their arms and legs off while they're alive.
01:18:35.000I mean, killing something is never going to be not cool.
01:18:37.000Why would you care? Why would you care?
01:18:40.000I genuinely, if somebody was raising an animal for food, let's say a chicken, and cut its wings off when it was alive, I honestly wouldn't care that much about the chicken.
01:18:49.000I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to pretend that I would care.
01:20:11.000Cruelty can be justified if you're going to eat the animal is what your position is, yeah?
01:20:14.000Yeah. Well, let's just unpack it, because if we can't even agree that being cruel to animals is bad, then we won't really have to talk about animal rights, which is what I advocate for.
01:20:26.000I advocate for the rights of the animal, their right to life.
01:20:29.000Say, if you shot a human in the back of the head, that's murder.
01:20:32.000You've basically taken away their right to exist.
01:20:35.000You've violated their rights. To a human, yes.
01:20:39.000If you've caused them suffering or not, shooting someone in the head, if they didn't feel it, is murder, yeah?
01:20:43.000Yeah. Shooting a person in the head is murder, yeah.
01:20:46.000Thou shall not kill. And you violated their human rights, haven't you?
01:20:50.000You violated their right to life, essentially, yeah?
01:20:51.000Yeah, I mean, the Human Rights Act is a very real thing.
01:20:54.000There was no Human Rights Act up until the 1960s, is it?
01:20:57.000I think the European Union came up with it.
01:20:59.000But no, I don't think that animals get the same rights as humans.
01:21:46.000Do you think it's wrong that they suffer for 30 seconds to a minute in a dungeon filled with gas and in their own feces screaming for mercy?
01:21:54.000I don't care at all. I think that there's no kind way of killing something and killing something is necessary to keep up the meat production of the world.
01:22:29.000But to say you don't care at all about these animals suffering to death in this gas chamber seems a bit like you're lacking empathy that most of the population would have.
01:22:57.000They're short and fucking muscly and brown and hairy and they've got tusks and they're fast and they're dangerous.
01:23:03.000The big fat lazy pink pigs exist because we bred them to be that way.
01:23:06.000Every single form of cattle, every single form is descendant of the European oryx, which has been extinct for over 400 something years.
01:23:13.000Humans have created these animals through selective breeding.
01:23:16.000In fact, if you wanted to make an argument not to eat dogs...
01:23:19.000I'd understand it a bit more than cows and pigs because dogs were selectively bred by people, but not for food.
01:23:24.000Dogs were selectively bred by people to be hunters and to be retrievers.
01:23:28.000That's why they still have these names today.
01:23:30.000But if someone wants to eat a dog, I still don't care.
01:23:32.000And you have to understand, and everyone has to understand, that all these pigs weren't just wandering around the countryside when we decided to show up and kill them.
01:23:40.000They were specifically bred for that purpose.
01:24:13.000Well, I don't think we should murder them.
01:24:14.000I don't think it's morally justifiable because I've been vegan for 10 years and haven't had to stab an animal in the throat yet since I've been vegan.
01:24:22.000I stabbed it in the chest, for the record.
01:24:24.000I've seen you. I know that you're on Shipwrecked and you were advocating for killing the animals on the island.
01:24:29.000I did kill them. Now, you're not on an island now.
01:24:32.000You're actually multi-millionaire and you can eat whatever you want.
01:24:35.000You've got personal chefs, but you still choose to...
01:24:39.000Obviously, you don't need to eat animals, do you?
01:24:41.000Do you believe you need to? You just said that it's tasty.
01:24:46.000And I understand that in today's society with supermarkets and all the miracles that you guys talk about, that you can exist on a vegan diet.
01:25:03.000I'm not one of the people who lives in southern Gujarat in India who has to depend on fish.
01:25:07.000I understand that I have a choice of what I can eat.
01:25:10.000I understand that. And I eat meat, and that's the way it is.
01:25:13.000I like meat, and I don't see anything wrong with meat, and I don't care that the animals have to die because it's just an unfortunate part of being part of the food chain.
01:25:20.000Just as a shark or a crocodile or a polar bear wouldn't care if it was eating me or my child.
01:25:26.000It wouldn't care. And as much as I'd be a bad parent if I let my daughter get near a polar bear, I could not argue the polar bear did anything morally wrong by eating a person.
01:25:39.000Would you shoot the polar bear to protect your daughter?
01:25:43.000I'd shoot a polar bear to eat it, given half a chance.
01:25:46.000Yeah, but I'm saying, would you shoot, you would obviously, if your human was about to be eaten by, like, a polar bear, would you shoot the polar bear to protect the human being?
01:25:54.000Say you didn't know the human. I'd shoot a human to protect another human into the right circumstances.
01:25:59.000Me too. People do it all the time. Me too.
01:26:19.000What I am against is innocent beings being enslaved and decapitated so I can eat a piece of their body.
01:26:26.000That there I don't think is justified.
01:26:29.000So there's a difference between justifiable killing to protect self-defense, things like this, and unjustifiable killing for a bacon sandwich, a bit of taste pleasure or whatever.
01:27:17.000It's not a word trap. It's just basically, we share a common, like, morally relevant trait with animals, and it's our conscious experience.
01:27:25.000Now, you could say that we have more intelligence in animals, of course.
01:27:30.000Especially, we could use a pig, for example.
01:27:32.000Pigs are more intelligent than dogs, okay?
01:27:34.000We know that scientifically, or they're at least comparable, and in some studies, dogs do better, but they're about on par or better in certain studies.
01:27:43.000Pigs taste better. Let's say we have a...
01:27:47.000Is there something about animals, right?
01:27:50.000When you look at, say, a pig, is there something about that pig that...
01:27:53.000Obviously, I don't think you would agree with putting human beings in gas chambers to eat them for bacon, yeah?
01:27:59.000You make a distinction. Well, of course I wouldn't.
01:28:02.000Why would I want to eat a human being?
01:28:04.000In fact, if you give me 60 seconds, let me tell you something that humans and animals have in common.
01:28:10.000It's a very basic concept that almost every animal in the world has in common, besides like octopus and a few others.
01:28:16.000It's called the preservation of one's own species.
01:28:18.000So if you take a piranha, a tiny little angry fish with a brain the size of a pea, you put any piece of meat or a human or a horse or a dog or a pig into that pond and it's bleeding, the piranhas are going to rip it apart.
01:28:29.000But piranhas don't eat other piranhas, no species survives if it does.
01:28:32.000The preservation of one's own species is more important than the preservation of other species, that's why lions don't hunt and eat other lions, that's why they eat other things.
01:28:40.000So if you want to talk about traits that we have in common, then I as a human saying, yeah, screw the pig, I'm going to eat him, and I'm not going to kill and eat other humans, Bye.
01:28:48.000There's something that we have in common with every other species.
01:28:51.000Because I'm not interested in killing or eating humans, and I don't think killing humans is right almost ever.
01:28:55.000There's almost no justifiable reason to murder somebody or to be cruel to somebody.
01:28:59.000But pigs, I simply don't care about humans.
01:29:02.000The human species murder each other all the time.
01:29:06.000Humans are some of the most sick, evil animal on Earth.
01:29:10.000We find the most creative ways to torture and murder each other.
01:29:13.000We murder each other en masse, murder children.
01:29:15.000Human beings are not some amazing species, moral species.
01:29:42.000You wouldn't want to see humans factory farmed and put in these places.
01:29:47.000So there's got to be something, a trait that's different.
01:29:49.000And now, are you saying that the trait that separates humans and animals, it's like a morally relevant trait that we possess, that the animals do not possess.
01:30:41.000That's what I would say. And a pig is not made in the image of God.
01:30:44.000It certainly is not made in the image of God.
01:30:46.000Neither is a cow. In fact, cows and pigs are made in the image of what humans made them into.
01:30:52.000So as a religious person, there's no argument you could possibly give me to see any lower life form or any animal besides a human as equal to a human because animals aren't made in the image of God.
01:31:07.000So, if there were a species of human being that, or beings that look exactly like us, weren't made in God's image, and they shared, like, all of our morally relevant traits, like the consciousness experience, they could experience the same level and depth of suffering as us, except they weren't made in the image of God, but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between being, like, you know, so we were made in the image of God, and there's a group that aren't.
01:31:29.000Let's just say they evolved separately from us.
01:31:32.000Sure. Let me finish my point and then I'll let you go.
01:31:36.000But I was just wondering, is it okay to do to them what we do to animals because they're not made in the image of God and you wouldn't be able to tell us apart, really?
01:31:44.000If I'm correct, isn't an octopus an insanely intelligent animal with a very complicated nervous system that feels pain and emotions just like humans do?
01:31:56.000Am I correct in that? I think that's true.
01:31:58.000They're also delicious, and I don't care about an octopus.
01:32:00.000So if that answers your question, then that answers your question.
01:32:21.000It doesn't say that. It's just thou shalt not murder, doesn't it?
01:32:24.000Thou shalt not kill. It doesn't say thou shalt not.
01:32:26.000Well, it says thou shalt not kill, but then in Leviticus chapter 11, it tells you which animals you can eat and which animals you can't.
01:32:31.000And the Islamic holy book tells you exactly how to slaughter them and which animals you can eat and which animals you can't.
01:32:37.000Does it say anything about not eating dogs?
01:32:41.000In Islam they do, but I don't think in Christianity they mention how much animals.
01:32:45.000Leviticus chapter 11, I believe, is a differentiation between what the animal eats and what its hoof shape is.
01:32:52.000Obviously this was written a very long time ago.
01:32:54.000If someone in the chat wants to correct me or look this up, I believe it says if it has a hoof that's split in half and chews of the cud, you can eat it, which does not refer to camels, but it refers to basically every other livestock animal that we have today.
01:33:42.000We could go on indefinitely with this because you could say something to me like, Oh, we shouldn't kill and eat pigs because it's cruel.
01:33:49.000And I could say, yes, we should and no, it's not cruel.
01:33:52.000But I don't try to redact the arguments down to such a basic level.
01:33:55.000I like to try to give a little bit of nuance and try to inject my knowledge into the situation a little bit more.
01:34:01.000But no, I don't think any argument can be made that animal lives are as important as human lives.
01:34:06.000And if you really, truly believe that, if you really, truly, in your heart believe that an animal life is as important as a human life, then I believe that there is something, and I don't mean this in an offensive way.
01:34:15.000Let's talk about someone else. Let's talk about a third party.
01:34:17.000This guy believes that animal lives and human lives, because it's sentient, are all exactly of equal value.
01:34:22.000Then that person is less intelligent than a piranha.
01:34:26.000Or a shark. Because piranhas don't think that piranha lives are less important than the other animals' lives.
01:34:31.000And the preservation of your own species is something innate in all of us, in almost every creature that lives.
01:34:37.000So if you want to say that you're less intelligent than a piranha and you believe that a pig's life or a chicken's life or a cow's life or a lamb's life is exactly as important as yours or mine or my kids or your kids, I don't believe that you really think that.
01:34:51.000Well, it depends on who the person is, really.
01:34:53.000Because if you're talking about a piece of shit, then I don't see them as any more worthy than a fly.
01:34:57.000Yeah, of course. If you're talking about a person, they try their best.
01:35:19.000So, you know, just because you're a vegan, and I disagree with you, and I don't give a shit about animals, doesn't mean that I can't tell the 27, 28, I haven't refreshed it, 30-something thousand people watching on my audience, that your story of being a gangbanger and a piece of shit and a criminal and turning it all around isn't inspirational.
01:35:39.000So, I know that's off-topic, and I'm not trying to throw you off, but actually, well done to you, because...
01:35:43.000A lot of people, and I've met a lot of them, don't end up where you are today, given those circumstances.
01:35:50.000I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
01:35:52.000I appreciate you saying that. Well, I didn't know it until you introduced yourself.
01:35:55.000I literally didn't even know. Okay, well, thank you very much.
01:35:59.000I've been very transparent about my past, as transparent as I can be, and a lot of my friends are still either in prison on drugs or in gangs, so a lot of people don't make it out of that world, so thank you.
01:36:10.000But I am trying to do right, but this is something that I really care about.
01:36:28.000I know you're making a distinction between humans and animals, but if I saw someone back then, let me ask you this.
01:36:36.000If I was being cruel to a dog in front of you, say I had a hot iron and I was putting it in their eye and they were squealing and that, you would just feel nothing?
01:36:44.000No, if you're working at a dog factory, killing the dog so you can eat it, I would not care, because it's your dog, your farm, your business, your factory, your life.
01:36:54.000I'm a free market capitalist, and if you're a producer of dog meat, all well and good.
01:36:58.000If I saw you torturing anything for any reason, I'd say, well, what's the point in that?
01:37:04.000What's the benefit? Are you providing anyone with a meal?
01:37:06.000Are you providing anyone with food, sustenance?
01:37:10.000So yeah, I would have a go at someone...
01:37:12.000Well, let's just say that I have plant-based food available to me.
01:37:15.000There's plenty of plant-based food available to me.
01:37:17.000I'm torturing them because- Because you want to eat them?
01:37:20.000Because I just made the choice to over the plant-based food.
01:37:25.000I'm deciding I want to torture them to eat them because it's basically just a flippant choice.
01:37:30.000I could eat plant food, but I don't really like it as much.
01:37:33.000I like torturing animals and eating them.
01:37:35.000I mean, I love vegetables, but I also love eating meat.
01:37:39.000And that's how free market capitalism works.
01:37:41.000You see, Joey, I think a lot of people like you, and I don't mean to offend you, they think that they can educate somebody like me.
01:37:48.000They think I'm some big dumb thug, and they think that...
01:37:51.000I don't know where my food comes from.
01:37:53.000And they think they're going to show me videos of certain factory farms and talk to me of the processes in which chickens lay eggs and the cages they're kept in.
01:38:01.000And I'm going to go, oh my God, this is wrong.
01:38:04.000But that's not the way I'm programmed.
01:38:05.000If I was super interested in feudal Japanese history...
01:38:09.000And I went to all the feudal Japanese history conventions and spoke about it in every conversation when I got drunk with my friends, which I tend to do.
01:38:16.000And you looked at me and said, Tristan, I just don't give a shit about feudal Japanese history.
01:38:19.000I don't care. It's not an issue I care about.
01:38:22.000I don't want to know about it. I'd say, you know what?
01:38:24.000Good for you. Veganism is one of these things that you believe you could actually convince somebody like me because you think you can open my eyes.
01:39:50.000He probably doesn't remember me. There was a guy on the island with me when I was in that reality TV show.
01:39:54.000And some people said, I'm not going to kill the pig.
01:39:56.000I'm not going to eat the pig. And some people said, I'm going to actively take part in the killing of the pig and I'm going to eat the pig.
01:40:02.000Obviously, the killing was done by me because I was the one of the producers most trusted as the most competent person on the island.
01:40:06.000But there was one or two people there who said, you know what?
01:40:09.000I don't want to be around when the pig is killed.
01:40:10.000I don't want to be around when we have to strip it and gut it and cut off its skin.
01:40:44.000It is a serious question because most people don't have your position that they don't care how cruel someone is to animals.
01:40:51.000I could do anything to animals as long as I'm going to eat them.
01:40:55.000That is not my position. I think if you're going to kill animals, you should kill them in the most humane way possible.
01:40:59.000I said there is no killing of an animal without cruelty.
01:41:03.000Yeah, yeah. Okay, philosophically, yes, if you believe it's cruel to kill, like without suffering, like the act of killing is cruel in and of itself because you're robbing them of their life.
01:41:12.000Absolutely. So it justifies it because you're eating it.
01:41:14.000But you also said factory farming is an amazing invention, even though it's just basically an infinite suffering machine that's like dead birds dying on their faces and pigs suffering to death on the floor of their own, like laying in their own feces, like mothers like stuck in cages and like piglets being smacked on the ground and then like their heads...
01:41:51.000But it's a wonderful, wonderful system that anywhere I go in the world, I can ask for a plate of chicken and somebody can get me chicken and cook it for me and put it on my plate.
01:42:02.000Now, factory farming plays a massive role in that, whether anyone likes it or not.
01:42:09.000Back when my parents were growing up, you had seasonal vegetables.
01:42:12.000You couldn't even get oranges in the winter.
01:42:15.000And now, any time of any year in any city in the civilized world, I can get a steak.
01:42:21.000I eat steak every day. I think that's a beautiful thing.
01:42:23.000Now, I understand that factory farms are a part of this system.
01:42:26.000When I say the system is incredibly impressive because I can eat steak whenever I like, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit at a factory farm and get my dick out and get off on the fact that all these cows are being tortured.
01:42:37.000I'm not a sadistic person, but I understand that it's part of the system, the wonderful system of global food supply.
01:42:58.000Yes. And you're calling it wonderful because it's like something like, you know, I've been in some pretty horrible situations and I've seen some pretty horrible, like, videos, like, but when I... Became an investigator and seen what goes on in these places.
01:43:12.000It is some of the most disgusting, vile, horrific violence and cruelty and stench of corpses.
01:43:22.000They die in their own feces, these animals.
01:43:29.000Sorry, they just grow so quickly that they break their own legs and they lay there suffering to death, like millions of birds die before they even get to the slaughterhouse.
01:43:37.000And to call that wonderful just seems like maybe you just think the technology is wonderful or something, but inside there, if you've seen all the footage, I don't know how wonderful can come to your mind.
01:43:50.000And most people that I've ever spoken to, and they've actually done research on this, they've done massive polls, most people are against factory farming.
01:44:04.000That's a wonderful idea. And I know you're going to say, well, we could grow a bunch of beans, but I don't want to eat beans, and I don't want to eat crickets, and I don't want to eat plant-based food.
01:44:13.000I want to eat meat, and factory farms are part of the supply chain.
01:44:16.000It's not that a factory farm itself is beautiful.
01:44:19.000You have to understand these are all intricate wheels in a system which gives people the ability to have whatever food they like on whatever plate they like in whatever city they like globally.
01:44:30.000That's an impressive feat of human ingenuity.
01:44:33.000And to take that argument and say, oh, Tristan's the kind of guy who loves factory farms and thinks they're beautiful is actually not what I said.
01:44:40.000One. And two, my next question would be, did you think that I don't know stuff before you spoke to me?
01:44:47.000Because you seem surprised. I know a lot.
01:44:54.000I think you're very bright and I think you've been well-educated and you speak very coherently and you have a higher intelligence than a lot of people that I speak to.
01:45:07.000What I do come across, though, is people who think they know about what goes on, but have just seen a few videos here and there.
01:45:16.000But maybe just being there in that visceral stench and hearing the murmuring of the animals and seeing them dying on their faces might pull you off of the position that this is just a wonderful invention where I get to have meat wherever I want in the country.
01:46:13.000Like it's a diet choice. It's actually, we care what people consume because on the other end of that, animals are being raised, mutilated, um, cause that This is factory farming suffering and then they are murdered in like a gas chamber or a slaughterhouse filled with blood in order to meet that demand.
01:46:31.000So people are collectively making up that demand and so we are trying to stop people from making up that demand so the animals can stop being bred into infinite torture and then murder.
01:46:41.000Well, some people never will because we understand that very well and I think that Yeah.
01:46:46.000Let's move on to something that we might agree on because I think that you've got your points across.
01:46:51.000And this is what I meant, by the way, when I said it's not going to be much of a debate because I don't really have anything to say, oh, you shouldn't be vegan and you shouldn't preach it because X, Y, Z and, you know, factory farming is 100% great and there's no suffering involved.
01:49:03.000I really like them squealing or whatever.
01:49:05.000You really like the taste of KFC, and these animals are suffering in horrible factory farms in order to bring you that KFC. How is what you're doing any different to what I'm doing?
01:49:27.000But if you were just raising them in cages, as a lot of places in Africa, and a lot of places in Argentina, and all the places where our meat comes from in the world, where they try to raise animals as many as they can, as fast as they can, and as small a space as they can, these people who are very hard-working people, I think we'll all agree, who are trying to make their living, who if you shut down their factory farm probably wouldn't have much else to do, who are taking these chickens and treating them carelessly, and if they're killing them in a relatively humane way,
01:49:56.000I mean, Islam gives a guide on how to kill animals, and I know everyone's like, oh, that's cruel because it's with a knife.
01:50:01.000Well, there were no bolt guns invented in the time of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
01:50:05.000So the guidance is actually very, very good.
01:50:08.000Don't let the animals see the knife, etc.
01:50:09.000There's nobody on earth who would choose having the animal tortured as opposed to killed as humanely as possible.
01:50:17.000But if you were running a factory farm and you were a Chinese man in Wuhan and you were sick of your life and you were cruelly kicking your chickens all day and whipping them, I wouldn't come to your farm and tell you how to run your chicken farm.
01:50:29.000And I would probably still buy your chicken.
01:50:33.000You would fund me. If I was torturing the chickens, you would go, here, mate, here's 20 bucks, give us a couple of those chickens, and you'd keep me in business.
01:50:41.000How cheap are they? Just about an average bucket of chickens.
01:51:01.000Of course they do. They are sentient beings.
01:51:03.000Of course they do. Yes. I just don't see them any different to any other bird or any other animal.
01:51:10.000I don't know why you make a distinction between a pig and a dog.
01:51:12.000These are both animals who are having a subjective experience.
01:51:15.000If you can't make that distinction over the example I gave you earlier about every single life form that is farmed on a farm being created by humans and selectively bred for a reason...
01:51:25.000And that dogs were bred to be your friend, provide companionship, go hunting with, and pigs were bred to get as big as possible, as fast as possible, so we can kill them.
01:51:33.000If you really can't see the distinction between a pig and a dog, that's okay.
01:51:37.000Because if people eat dogs, I don't care that they eat dogs.
01:52:32.000And this shield helped you get through what you had to get through.
01:52:36.000If you started caring, basically you couldn't be a very good person in the gang world, you couldn't be a very good soldier if you always cared, but you have to actually have this feeling of not caring for these animals, knowing that they suffer and they're harmed and they're slaughtered and all this stuff.
01:52:53.000If you did care, you wouldn't be able to eat the animals, and I do care, and there's probably a bunch of people watching this who actually...
01:52:59.000So if they do, if someone who is what, I'm not, obviously you're not to be convinced of this, but if there's people that are watching who do care about the experiences of other animals and do see them as, you know, valuable in their own right because they have a conscious experience, then those people shouldn't be consuming animal products, right? The ones who do care.
01:53:40.000Just in the way that if you're wearing a pair of Nike sneakers and you don't care that some child in China sold them or you use an iPhone and you don't care about the appalling conditions at the iPhone factories and you continue to use your iPhone, yeah, you'd rather not.
01:53:52.000You'd rather it be made by happy, smart people getting paid $400 an hour.
01:53:56.000I'm sure you would. So would I. But the world of supply and demand, this isn't communism.
01:55:41.000Yeah, well, we're using the end product.
01:55:43.000We raise the cow to be an end product.
01:55:44.000So I did say food, but this isn't a gotcha moment because if you want to kill, because the cows that are killed for leather aren't eaten.
01:55:50.000Everyone knows that. It's too expensive to raise them.
01:55:52.000It's too expensive to raise the cows with the high quality hides.
01:55:55.000You have to have them at certain elevations to make the car seats in, for example, a Bugatti or a Rolls Royce.
01:56:00.000And they don't eat the meat because it's not financially viable to cart them off and then chop them up because it's too cheap.
01:56:05.000I mean, they usually don't eat the meat.
01:56:07.000Let's say the cows are completely discarded.
01:56:08.000Yeah, fine. You raised a cow for leather.
01:56:11.000It's fine to kill white cows for their skin.
01:56:16.000100%. And in India where they trek them across like long treks and they're suffering and then they export that leather, it's fine to buy that leather, just animals suffering like really horrible lives just for leather, yeah?
01:56:28.000Yes. And when calves are skinned and like little calves are skinned for their calf skin, that's fine too, baby cows, just to wear them.
01:56:38.000Yes. Even though there's like other options available, that's all cool.
01:56:41.000I mean, there are other options available, but I don't think you have a pair of shoes as cool as my alligator skin shoes.
01:56:46.000I think my shoes are better than your shoes.
01:57:25.000That's what the alligators are raised for.
01:57:26.000The alligators weren't happily walking around in the wild when someone saw them and said, I'm going to make a pair of shoes out of this guy.
01:57:31.000You know? What they did was they farmed them, they raised them, they made my shoes, and I love the end product.
01:57:36.000And I do not feel sorry for those alligators at all.
01:57:39.000And I never will. So basically, as long as we get pleasure from the action or some kind of satisfaction.
01:57:44.000As long as we get some goods. Yeah, some goods from the action.
01:58:08.000Some intelligence over cows, but most basic experiences...
01:58:13.000I have a lot. Well, there are human beings that...
01:58:17.000Well, how about this? There are human beings that have about the sentience of a cow and about the experience of a cow, and they're born like that.
01:58:27.000Okay, yeah, but if they weren't made in the image of God and you couldn't tell them apart from other humans, would it be okay to skin them alive and make shoes out of them?
01:58:34.000I mean, you know I have a distinction between animal life and human life.
01:59:30.000Well, we're not hypotheticals because we live in the real world, don't we?
01:59:34.000I've given lots of hypotheticals, but I don't like to go down the hypothetical route.
01:59:37.000I said if I could kill animals without torturing them and without being cruel and it would be ideal if they could all live wonderful lives, I could give hypotheticals too.
01:59:44.000But we live in the real world. We live in the world of supply and demand.
01:59:46.000We live in the world where third world people are trying to get the best living they can by raising animals as fast as they can in as big numbers as we can.
01:59:54.000It's really fine. I believe it's fine.
01:59:56.000You don't eat animals for third world people, that's for sure.
01:59:58.000You eat animals because you like the taste and it's for pleasure and things like that.
02:00:02.000But I was just creating a hypothetical to test this.
02:00:04.000I'm trying to test... It's just a consistency test, by the way.
02:00:08.000It's just trying to test whether or not if there were human beings that weren't made in the image of God and we sort of created them, because this is actually logically possible.
02:00:32.000And we are, as humans, going down this road.
02:00:35.000So we might find some common ground here.
02:00:38.000Because people are talking about raising humans that are, for example, you.
02:00:41.000They'll take your DNA code and raise a human without the brain or mind or consciousness or whatever so that you could have access to that human's liver or heart.
02:00:53.000No, humans are humans, and I don't believe that we should be doing that.
02:00:56.000I believe humans are making the image of God, and I don't believe if you start a farm raising humans for organs, for organ transplants, which is an area of science that is being explored right now, do I think that's right?
02:01:09.000I don't believe in harvesting the body parts of babies who are eight months or seven months old when they're aborted to take their tissue and their skin and their bone to run human experiments on.
02:01:21.000No, I think that's all morally evil because humans are humans or animals are animals.
02:01:25.000And I'll always have a distinction between them.
02:01:28.000Yeah, but I was just trying to create this scenario so that they weren't actually made in the image of God to see if that was actually the trait.
02:01:37.000Every human is created in the image of God.
02:01:39.000No, because if we created them, they're made in our own image so we could farm them to be slightly genetically different.
02:01:49.000In fact, humans have been far to be genetically different.
02:01:52.000Humans have been far to be genetically different.
02:01:54.000Then they wouldn't be technically made in the image of God, would they then, Tristan?
02:02:00.000See, you're going down a road that just has a dead end.
02:02:03.000They are humans. I'm just trying to find out So I'm the descendant of African-American slaves.
02:02:07.000African-American slaves were the product of eugenics programs, of breeding programs, where they got the biggest, strongest slaves and the biggest, strongest women, and interbred them to create bigger, stronger slaves.
02:02:17.000And it was all a big market. And that was completely wrong.
02:02:20.000And there's been slave trades everywhere.
02:02:21.000North Africa being one of the world's largest.
02:02:22.000China, the United States, the slave trades have existed all over the world.
02:02:25.000If you're saying because I think it's fine to farm cows that I think it's fine to farm people, I'm never, ever going to agree with you.
02:02:31.000Humans are humans and animals are animals.
02:02:36.000I'm trying to find out whether you feel that if this trait made in God's image didn't exist, like in some hypothetical, whether you would think it's okay to do what we do to animals to those hypothetical humans.
02:02:48.000You'll never convince you that that is a scenario that exists.
02:02:52.000It can never exist. Every human is made in the image of God.
02:03:25.000It is logically possible, and it's just possible for us to do this to human beings as well, and they wouldn't technically be made in God's image.
02:03:31.000It's okay to do what we do to animals.
02:03:34.000In this case, in this hypothetical case of human beings, I'm trying to figure it out.
02:03:38.000Because that case exists all the time, and that case is actually the case right now, right here in the world.
02:03:42.000If I'm dating a girl because I think she's big and strong and I want to have big, strong children, people make these kind of choices all the time.
02:03:48.000Are you saying that that child is selectively bred and we can use her to make a pair of shoes?
02:03:51.000Humans are humans, animals are animals.
02:03:53.000I can actually cut it off one step before this.
02:03:56.000I could cut it off at the step, whereas I think if any weirdo was selectively breeding humans for any reason, then no, humans have free will and free agency, and they should be able to reproduce with whoever they want.
02:04:05.000If any human is selectively breeding humans, then that's slavery, and slavery is wrong in the first place.
02:04:10.000So we should never even get there if we care about morals and humanity.
02:04:14.000Well, I just apply the morals consistently.
02:04:18.000Yeah, but it's a cow. I mean, it doesn't matter if they are human or non-human.
02:04:22.000And in this case, in the hypothetical case, they would technically be non-human hybrids.
02:04:28.000So I'm just asking for consistency in both places.
02:04:34.000Obviously, I don't think it's right to enslave animals and decapitate them because I don't see them as morally distinct from...
02:04:41.000Human sentient beings, like, not really, like, especially when you get down to the sentience of, like, children and that.
02:04:48.000A child and a pig are pretty, like, even in terms of sentience.
02:04:56.000Yeah, well, I mean, you might have other reasons to care about human beings.
02:04:59.000No. No, it doesn't matter if it's a child born in China who I've never seen in my life.
02:05:05.000Humans or humans or animals or animals.
02:05:06.000No one in my chat thinks you're coming to a conclusion with this point because this hypothetical scenario you talk about where we selectively bred humans for thousands of years to create mutant humans.
02:05:15.000Could you eat them? Could you eat an animal that has some human DNA? I mean, this has never happened and this isn't the real world that we live on.
02:05:22.000This is the real world that we live in.
02:05:24.000I just didn't believe that being made in God's image was the only morally relevant trait.
02:06:39.000If I harmed an animal, everyone knows that that's animal cruelty.
02:06:41.000That's wrong because they're having their own individual experience.
02:06:44.000And what people tend to do is they go, they're below me because of X reason, because they're not made in God's image or they're not humans and we are superior so we can do whatever we want throughout history.
02:06:55.000And it's what humans have used to justify harming other humans.
02:07:55.000Look, cannibalism is wrong. And if you're going to ever try to drag the argument of humans are in some way equal to animals, so we shouldn't treat humans this way, so we shouldn't treat animals in this way.
02:08:04.000If that is going to be the baseline of this last 10 minutes that you keep going on about, that's never going to be a conclusion that someone like me is going to reach.
02:08:10.000And it's not going to be a conclusion that any healthy person is going to reach either.
02:08:14.000No healthy person is going to ever think that ever.
02:08:18.000Ever. So, I mean, you keep looking for...
02:08:21.000I don't know what you're looking for me to say.
02:08:23.000I don't know if you... I'm just trying to figure out what you fundamentally believe is like...
02:09:46.000I respect them because they're mightier than the human.
02:09:49.000If I could subdue an entire population of cows and have them run across the field because I have a dog chase after them and I could raise them for food, good.
02:09:57.000Going out there and shooting elephants, I don't think is a fair fight.
02:10:02.000And I think that vegans and people like me should get together and say, let's change the rules of trophy hunting.
02:10:10.000So you have to fight the animal in a fair way.
02:10:14.000Is that an improvement on shooting them with guns?
02:10:18.000No, I think depending on what the animal is, we should use different weapons.
02:10:24.000I mean, fight a lion with your bare hands or fight an elephant with your bare hands?
02:10:28.000What I'm saying, if someone says to me, these big fat Americans usually, sorry Americans if you're listening, but it's usually you, they take these pictures next to these lions with their rifle, like they're some sort of champion.
02:11:47.000I think if you could somehow viably run a lion factory farm or an elephant factory farm, all credit to you.
02:11:53.000If you manage to pull that off, well done.
02:11:55.000So no, I don't think we should. How about this?
02:11:57.000Go on. How about this, Tristan? We liberate all of the animals in the factory farm situation, the cows and pigs, chickens and lambs, and even the ones that are going to the slaughterhouse, and the only meat you eat is if you fight a lion with your bare hands and win.
02:12:34.000I thought God created the animals, one.
02:12:36.000And we're not even eating animals that were created by God, two.
02:12:39.000If you're a God-fearing, like, a Christian, these animals are created by human beings and they're genetically bred freak shows.
02:12:45.000So is every vegetable. So is every fruit.
02:12:50.000God created animals to feel pain and suffer with a brain and a nervous system and all that, if you believe that.
02:12:54.000Why did God create animals to suffer and also experience well-being and happiness and good feelings?
02:13:00.000Your argument broke down in the first five seconds because you're saying, oh, it's unnatural because these animals are created by humans by selective breeding.
02:13:08.000So is every vegetable and fruit that you eat.
02:13:10.000Every one. I'm talking about the beings that matter morally, like sentient animals.
02:13:52.000You know the devil didn't build the factory farm, and the devil didn't create the modified chicken.
02:13:57.000If you looked in a factory farm and seen a bunch of chickens suffering on their faces and overgrown bodies, would you say that's the work of God?
02:14:24.000But anything bad that happens to humans is the devil's work.
02:14:26.000You started this by saying that you are, no, not everything bad that if I'm, if an alligator eats me, that's not Satan, that's nature.
02:14:32.000And I'm talking about factory farms, like just, just looking at the footage, right?
02:14:35.000Cause anyone can go watch factory farm footage right now.
02:14:38.000They can go look at my investigations in my uncovered series. They can look at that, right?
02:14:42.000And just, if you're, if you're, if you're a religious person, like say you're Muslim, you're Christian, whatever, look in, look in that factory farm, look in that slaughterhouse of the suffering and the animals dying in their own blood and go, is that God or the devil?
02:14:53.000Well, I think you're falling on your face here because we started this argument with you saying that you don't believe in a God.
02:14:58.000And now you're trying to say, oh, but it's wrong what happens to chickens.
02:15:12.000And I love chickens. I'm just fitting the beliefs of others because in Islam actually, you brought up Islam before, but in Islam there's actually like a little bit of something about animal welfare in their religion where they believe that causing animal suffering and cruelty is Islam, right?
02:15:26.000And I speak to Muslims quite a lot and we have actually quite productive discussions.
02:15:32.000Wonderful. Now they at least believe that causing animal suffering and cruelty is wrong, is Morally wrong and it's haram.
02:15:51.000I live with two. There's one right here next to me.
02:15:53.000Yeah, I know Andrew's a Muslim as well now.
02:15:55.000Okay, but what I'm saying is that you don't even believe that causing animals cruelty in factory farms is wrong and you brought up Islam before and said, oh, they just slit the animals' throats, right?
02:16:05.000And you believe that's a good way of doing it?
02:16:14.000Factory farms are... See, I feel like I've met...
02:16:16.000When I said there was never going to be any debate, I think every point that you've tried to raise, we're just going back to things I said within the first 20 minutes.
02:16:22.000If you can kill them as humanely as possible, that would be good.
02:16:52.000I can get food everywhere in the world that I want, and factory farms are part of the supply and demand food chain.
02:16:56.000It's a wonderful thing that we can feed all these people on the planet.
02:16:59.000It's a wonderful thing that there are fewer people starving and dying of hunger than there ever was before at any point in human history, that we've managed to take many people in the third world, especially in modern day China, thanks to factory farms, and take them out of poverty and give them the ability to eat food, mainly meat.
02:17:14.000every single day. I think it's a wonderful thing, yes.
02:17:16.000And you'll never change my mind otherwise.
02:17:18.000Factory farms are fine by me, and I know what goes on, and I've seen them, and I don't care.
02:17:29.000Actually, you can't say that now because you did care a little bit.
02:17:32.000You cared enough to stop me torturing them.
02:17:35.000You cared enough to stop me torturing them.
02:17:37.000When I created a chicken torture-like scenario, you did care a little bit.
02:17:42.000I see the glimmer of empathy in you, bro.
02:17:44.000You like hypotheticals, and if you're going to torture chickens after this feed and message me that you're torturing chickens, I'm going to turn my phone off and go and live my life.
02:18:16.000Should we do some finishing statements or do you want to continue?
02:18:19.000Is there any other roads you want to go down with?
02:18:21.000I don't know if you believe the same...
02:18:24.000There were generally no roads I wanted to go down at the beginning of this.
02:18:27.000I think I said at the beginning that this wasn't going to be a debate because I'm not an uninformed person who's going to hear what you have to say and go, oh my god, wow, oh wow, maybe I should stop beating me.
02:18:38.000I know all the things that you know already.
02:20:02.000No, no. I just want to figure out because in my view, basically figuring out whether or not you think being masculine is being a protector or helping the vulnerable, those that we perceive as – like you perceive animals as below you.
02:20:17.000They're basically... They're at our mercy.
02:20:20.000We can do what we want to them, these birds.
02:20:38.000I'm not one of these guys who says, oh, you have to eat meat to be a man.
02:20:41.000To be a man, you have to live by your own convictions and you have to stand by your own convictions.
02:20:46.000I feel like the question is wired in a way, and I don't want it, to spiral back down that toilet of, oh, but babies and humans are less vulnerable, so, you know, chickens and humans.
02:20:56.000I don't want to spiral back down that same toilet bowl.
02:20:59.000But being a man is about living by your own convictions, standing up and saying, this is what I believe in, being ready to challenge people and their beliefs, being happy to talk to people, like I'm talking to you now when a bunch of internet trolls say you're scared to debate veganism, when it's an issue I don't really care about.
02:21:13.000But being able to stand up, say what you mean, mean what you say, that's what being a man is about.
02:21:20.000I'm not saying you have to go around and stab, oh, I stabbed a pig, I'm so macho.
02:21:27.000Just like punching someone in the face isn't an easy thing to do.
02:21:29.000You've punched plenty of people in the face and so have I, I'm sure.
02:21:32.000But that's the nature of the reality of the world that we live in.
02:21:36.000So no, I'm not going to even fall into the trap of saying you have to eat meat to be a man.
02:21:41.000Because, you know, when I've seen you argue with people, people look...
02:21:44.000That's scared of you a bit, intimidated by you a bit, and you stand up there anyway, no matter what someone says.
02:21:50.000If someone's eating a burger in your face, you say, no, I think this is wrong, and I'm going to travel around the world and say that this is wrong as much as I want to.
02:21:57.000That is being a man, and credit for you for doing it.
02:22:00.000If you want to go around the world and preach this for the rest of your life, which I assume you will, then all power to you, but you're never, ever, ever I'm never going to convince people like me because there are smart people out there who know everything about the meat industry you do.
02:22:14.000You can't hit us with any eye-openers.
02:22:16.000You can't hit us with any weird hypotheticals about non-human humans because that's just not real.
02:22:54.000I didn't have to. Even if people say, oh, you're scared of this, you didn't have to have me on your platform with all of your...
02:22:59.000Tens of thousands of people watching this right now.
02:23:01.000I really am appreciative of that, and I'm glad that you don't...
02:23:04.000You're not saying, oh, you have to eat meat to be a man or whatever like that.
02:23:07.000I mean, because I think it's actually pathetic if people think that what you put in your mouth makes you more of a protector or more of a man or thinks it makes you any less of a man to care about this issue.
02:23:15.000You're just saying you don't care about animals.
02:23:17.000I disagree. I do care about vulnerable beings, and that's why I try to protect them, okay?
02:23:22.000And if anyone was stomping on an animal, provided like, you know, like I was in their vicinity, I would rush in and help and I'd get bashed trying to help an animal from being forced to come.
02:23:33.000And again, if I saw a man stepping on a dog, I wouldn't walk past smiling.
02:23:37.000So I know we can go down these same arguments again and again and again and again.
02:23:41.000But I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere with this.
02:23:47.000I just was trying to figure out your views on masculinity, and if you're saying it doesn't make you more or less of a man, if you've got to eat steak to be a man, eating steak is manly or whatever, something stupid like that, or if you eat vegan, you're going to be feminized or turn into a woman or something like this.
02:24:07.000I saw this fat soy dork standing at his barbecue grill in his Crocs, in his shorts, in his low-income house, flipping these burgers, being like, oh yeah, I'm such a man because I could barbecue.
02:24:18.000I'm like, you think that makes you a man?
02:24:20.000Bro, you look like a middle-aged fat lesbian.
02:24:22.000What's wrong with you? You're not a man.
02:24:23.000If I came into your house and stole your burgers, you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
02:24:37.000You can be a vegan and be a man and protect the vulnerable, protect your family, and if you had to bear arms and go to war and protect the vulnerable, protect your children, there's a stereotype that just because you care about other animals that aren't dogs or whatever, that makes you less of a man or whatever.
02:25:04.000You've got a huge influence and people respect you a lot.
02:25:08.000I look at all of your comments. I look at your following.
02:25:09.000It's massive. Thank you. People respect you and something about you that they listen to.
02:25:15.000I was just hoping that there's some people that listen to you that...
02:25:20.000That you might be able to sort of bring them off of this at least this anti-vegan stereotype kind of thing where people are, if you're a vegan, you're a bitch or if you're a vegan, you're part of the matrix or you've fallen for some propaganda or you're like, you know how people bring all that shit.
02:25:35.000Really, it just fundamentally could mean that people just care about the experience of animals that people just don't generally care about.
02:25:41.000So, I mean... It's the exact same point I made about Japanese history earlier.
02:25:45.000Like, people have different passions and people have different things that they fight for.
02:25:48.000I know you think this is super important and the whole world needs to care.
02:25:53.000Some people don't care about the things that I say or the things that I do.
02:25:56.000And that's the way it is. But no, I think that most people I know who I would describe as bitches, to use your word, this guy's a bitch, because 99% of people eat meat, especially where I live, then 99% of the people I meet are bitches.
02:26:09.000So I wouldn't say it's mutually exclusive.
02:27:37.000I went and risked my life and stuck the cameras in that gas chamber while it had gas in it and brought out the images from the pigs, the first of its kind in the UK. So you saw that.
02:28:37.000We didn't have to. And look, mate, if you ever...
02:28:41.000I mean, maybe this is not a good idea, because you probably wouldn't care, but if you ever want to come into one of these farms with me when you're in the UK, or catch up, have a vegan burger or something like that, then please.
02:28:50.000Mate, I would love to. Now you're baiting me.
02:28:52.000Now you're baiting me. Yeah, I could bring you into these places.
02:28:56.000Like, it would be a good video, mate, if you actually see what's going on inside there and have that.
02:29:00.000And maybe you just go, I don't care still.
02:29:02.000I super don't care. Send me every video you make for the rest of your life, and I will continue to eat meat, as will most of my followers.
02:29:09.000So... Why don't you share it on your platform and see how many people don't care with you?
02:29:14.000Well, everyone who has any issue and anyone who has any point who they're trying to get across wants to share my platform and they want me to promote their stuff.
02:29:22.000Now, I'm going to promote the things that are applicable to me in my life and the things I want to share with the world.
02:29:27.000You share the things that you want to share with the world.
02:29:52.000The only reason I gave this guy a platform is, one, he was very respectful, very kind.
02:29:57.000I didn't seem to have any problem with anything he said to me ever, despite his fans attacking me for all sorts of various reasons.
02:30:03.000I just knew that it was very important for vegans out there who are usually into cornering people with hypothetical arguments and arguments that don't apply to the real world.
02:30:14.000Or giving people ridiculous arguments like, oh, well, you know, what if your child was used to make shoes?
02:30:20.000Needed to actually encounter somebody in the world who has a healthy mindset, who stays healthy and fit, likes to eat meat, and simply doesn't see the world the same way he does.
02:30:31.000And, you know, it's fine to see the world in a different way because I have over 30-something thousand people watching this.
02:30:37.000And let me tell you, all of us, if we spoke about various issues, whether it be politics, wars...
02:30:44.000Weapons, food, we'll all have different opinions and we'll all see things in a very different way.
02:30:49.000But I think it is good for the vegans watching this to know that There are lots of people who are smart enough to understand where their food comes from.
02:30:57.000There are a lot of people who understand exactly what makes it possible to get the steak and the chicken and the things that they like to eat on their plate.
02:31:03.000And we think it's perfectly fine, perfectly justifiable, and we simply don't care.
02:31:07.000So I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Mr.