The Alberta Project - Interview with Alberta Women's Independence Network

00:00:00.000 uh hi everyone uh welcome back to the channel today i'm joined by the people of the alberta

00:00:06.860 independence women's network um so i guess i'll start off first by like what like what sort of

00:00:14.300 like pushed you to like um specifically like cater towards like women i'm like was it because

00:00:22.820 like say i don't know did you think that like in your cohorts like in with your friends like

00:00:29.280 were the women you were interacting with like say like incredulous about whether independence could

00:00:35.680 or could not happen or they just wanted certainty or like like it's it's kind of like i don't want

00:00:41.200 to like generalize or anything but like what was your sort of um yeah like pretty much like what

00:00:49.580 pushed you to sort of have this like cohort like specifically um targeted towards uh women who

00:00:56.020 were interested about this issue sure um i guess i'll start um because i i was the one that

00:01:03.420 approached kathy with this crazy idea um so both kathy and i have been involved in politics on a

00:01:10.940 provincial level for um a while now i've been for five years kathy's been in a little longer than that

00:01:17.100 um and geared towards alberta independence um in our various roles that that we've had um and

00:01:28.240 last november ish i was kind of looking at the situation and knowing that we're coming up on

00:01:35.640 an election that we were going to have a federal election uh sometime soon and knowing the history of

00:01:43.500 alberta independence kind of sentiments in the province and what happens around elections um i

00:01:50.900 could kind of foresee that no matter which way this election went that alberta the alberta independence

00:01:57.220 ideas could really kind of get a bit of an uptick and i started thinking about yeah my experience with

00:02:04.860 politics um i mean clearly kathy and i are women where we've worked together um we've become good

00:02:12.540 friends through this process but uh we were a minority oftentimes um it's mostly men that get

00:02:21.020 into politics of course we have the exceptions you know we have a female premier right now 1.00

00:02:25.440 and uh female ministers in government right now but found that on um a more personal level that a lot 1.00

00:02:34.180 of my friends kind of shied away from the topic either they felt like it was kind of a dirty thing to

00:02:40.480 talk about it was kind of like politics can be pretty aggressive pretty messy uh really ugly at times

00:02:47.460 there's a lot of ego involved oftentimes unfortunately um and so you know my female friends were kind of 1.00

00:02:57.020 shying away from that um or they felt like they didn't know very much about it like enough to get

00:03:03.440 involved or to even have an opinion um and yeah that was kind of that's what i kind of found and so

00:03:14.560 my idea was that um or the idea that came to me was that we would start an organization that would

00:03:22.960 encourage other women to have the conversation we're completely non-partisan um it's not about a left or

00:03:31.760 right issue or anything like that when we're discussing it it's about education and getting

00:03:37.800 information so that we can feel confident within ourselves one day we're going to be standing in that

00:03:43.880 that voting booth we're going to have to tick the ballot yes or no for alberta independence and we want

00:03:50.520 each woman who goes in there to feel confident in that decision whether she decides that yes this is

00:03:57.180 something that i want for my family or this i don't think that this is something that that's good um

00:04:03.480 it needs to be a discussion around the facts and around education why alberta is a province how we got

00:04:13.740 here what the problems have been and and um and what our options are so yeah it kind of started with

00:04:21.960 that and then i approached kathy back in january it's like hey what do you think of this idea and

00:04:26.940 yeah we just kind of fleshed it out from there yeah awesome and kathy said are you kidding me

00:04:35.620 yeah what was what was your side like uh going forward from there kathy uh well it did it took angela a

00:04:46.660 little bit to convince me to do this i have to admit because i neither of us are we're very very

00:04:54.840 careful to make sure that we don't ever ever want to give the appearance that we're feminists or we're

00:05:01.420 you know girl power or whatever that kind of nonsense is we are we just want to see the people

00:05:08.880 in our province prosper under the canada like not under canada but under the country of alberta rather

00:05:16.200 than the nonsense we got going on in canada so i was a little bit resistant to to just singling out

00:05:22.340 the women for fear that we would look like we were trying to do sort of this new updated 2025 feminist 1.00

00:05:30.840 movement um so after thinking and praying a lot about it i realized that she was right and it was

00:05:38.480 time to join forces and and make this happen um but it wasn't without making sure that we really

00:05:45.280 talked that through like you know where most of us are married or we've got a partner of some sort

00:05:50.700 that we live with and we didn't want to ever exclude that conversation between um husband and

00:05:58.320 wife or partners but at the same time we also really really intimately understood from our our experience

00:06:06.500 within the independence movement that the message wasn't getting through to the women and we needed to

00:06:11.840 tailor it to them and so when i was able to finally wrap my head around that then then i was like

00:06:18.480 yeah full steam ahead let's go yeah yeah that is a good point um and yeah honestly i was the first town

00:06:25.640 hall i went to the app town hall was um in fort saskatchewan and yeah like just i guess like

00:06:33.180 subconscious subconsciously what i was expecting was like audience to be like majority male

00:06:39.100 um because like the leading figureheads um you know uh keith wilson mid sylvester jeff wrath

00:06:47.160 they're kind of like at the very forefront of this and you know they have also and dennis modry of

00:06:53.140 course they have all sorts of experience and whatnot um and they've been talking a lot about this and

00:06:58.580 so yeah just i was that's what i was expecting but then you know come the actual town hall and i attend it

00:07:05.580 and like i'm actually surprised by how much of like an even like 50 50 split it is almost

00:07:11.600 and this was the same thing in the edmonton town hall that i volunteered at um this was

00:07:17.420 this all this like demographic like sort of um like this lack of like uh disparity in the demographic

00:07:26.860 was like the it came through again in the rally um and at the legislature so yeah that was yeah that

00:07:35.100 was very interesting um and yeah i think it is like a lot of the um and i know app has been working on

00:07:44.820 like sort of um trying to broaden the message towards everyone right because like right now like the town

00:07:52.680 halls i'm sure you've been to um my experience is that like i would love to recommend friends and

00:08:00.700 family to come but like if you're not in the boat it's just like you get flabbergasted like immediately

00:08:08.020 like they're super intense it's overwhelming yeah like in there exactly it's very overwhelming like in

00:08:14.660 their messaging and right and now right now we're kind of like on the home stretch of a referendum

00:08:20.820 you know thanks to lukasic right um and his uh i guess his anti-independence petition backfiring and

00:08:29.940 you know becoming an independence petition and sort of it's very likely now that the alberta government

00:08:36.780 like the ucb government has a mandate that you know they can revise the question make it more clear

00:08:43.440 and put it onto a referendum and whatnot um and so yeah because because of that i think the app really

00:08:52.560 really needs to focus on like just um basically broadening the scope of like their target right

00:09:00.880 because like they have been doing a lot of town halls in edmonton which is great but um yeah like the

00:09:07.700 messaging that goes along with that has just been like very hardcore almost and so yeah i would i would

00:09:15.620 like to uh talk with uh lisa again sometime uh yeah i'll buy my email her the communications manager

00:09:22.940 yeah see what ideas they have but yeah a lot of um yeah and i think like the speakers

00:09:31.820 like in like at the events i i think i think kathy i've seen you've uh spoke at the events right in

00:09:39.740 town halls for app yeah yeah they're smaller ones yeah and i think it's like i don't i don't want to

00:09:47.540 say this like in a way that like oh we need like like more uh i guess how do i say this like we need to

00:09:54.820 put more female speakers forward just because they're women but it's just like a lot of the like it's so 1.00

00:10:01.340 it just so happens that a lot of the like um yeah like the women speakers that i've heard that are 1.00

00:10:06.420 very much concerned about this issue like is that like they're like their tone is like much more

00:10:14.680 like you know leveled and it's it's just like for like mass appeal like it just makes way more sense

00:10:21.580 and it like it doesn't give this sort of like extremely like rebellious kind of um like punk rock

00:10:28.860 almost uh feeling that like say um like jeff ratha's speeches may invoke right um and so i i think

00:10:38.940 yeah it's like because of that like we should like sort of yeah sort of push like more um

00:10:47.860 it's like i guess even-headed people you know male or female like it literally doesn't matter but just

00:10:54.620 yeah but yeah it's it's so far happened so that um like the like the theme the women concerned about

00:11:03.340 this issue that have been at the forefront have been more level-headed like and so i yeah i think

00:11:09.700 like what are your guys's um like kind of take on that or like how would you like how have you like

00:11:16.820 tried to been like encouraging like more women to like sort of like not just participate but maybe 1.00

00:11:24.820 like take a lead in some sense you know i'm gonna agree with you harad like on your kind of assessment

00:11:32.740 of the situation i'm gonna add something else to it i think like you're saying we're coming into that

00:11:37.460 home stretch so now we're into the the part where it's got to be like blanket marketing like we've got

00:11:44.100 to reach as many albertans as possible and i'm afraid that's what has happened is that the movement

00:11:51.140 has kind of created a bit of an echo chamber you know all the folks who could see it right from the

00:11:57.140 very beginning or who could easily adopt the idea of alberta independence they're already in yeah exactly

00:12:02.820 and and that messaging worked great to get those folks to that point but now it's like how do we kind

00:12:11.460 of spread out and reach the folks who aren't the early adopters who are going to need a different

00:12:18.740 type of messaging and i mean that's kind of what our organization is about yes kathy has spoken in a

00:12:25.700 bunch of the local app town halls i've done one um we've done a few town halls just for our organization

00:12:34.180 where people have invited us and said hey i rented my community center i've got a bunch of people coming

00:12:40.660 but for the most part our approach has been that it has to be a conversation yeah um and that there

00:12:47.940 has to be some engagement and some back and forth and some questions and going back again to the women 1.00

00:12:55.220 thing and this is what kathy and i both noticed is that and we i don't have an explanation for it but

00:13:01.860 when we do our smaller meetings in people's homes or at a cafe or a restaurant the um if there's you

00:13:11.220 know if there's more women than men then the women are will engage more if there's equal numbers the 1.00

00:13:17.140 women will still engage but once we get to where there is a bigger disparity between the male and female 1.00

00:13:22.820 racial in the room for whatever reason i don't know the women the women don't or or maybe it's 0.96

00:13:29.780 the men talk more i don't know but so definitely our approach is that um yeah we need to be able to

00:13:39.140 get into those face-to-face conversations and have the conversations with folks who aren't going to come

00:13:46.020 to a rally or who aren't going to come to a big meeting and who just need basically that you know

00:13:52.660 put your arm around them and say come on let's talk about this let me show you let me show you something

00:13:57.700 and let's have a discussion yeah yeah exactly um yeah a lot of people i think i'd say i'd wager

00:14:06.660 that most people aren't like like like vehemently against independence like there's a lot of um

00:14:17.140 like there's a lot of sort of i guess like uncertainty in their minds that comes along with it

00:14:23.620 um which is like why like there's been an offshoot of like 50 first graders i think right it's because

00:14:30.180 there's like a sort of like a pretense of like a false dichotomy where you're either in canada or

00:14:35.620 or you're with the us there's no in between you know we're landlocked whatever like and so yeah i

00:14:42.580 think that that's something that needs to be addressed um and yeah another thing yeah again

00:14:49.060 it just goes back to uncertainty right people are basically like they're thinking about their bottom

00:14:55.140 line usually right now that might be like a bit of a like when you're doing like nation building

00:15:01.540 like i'm i'm sure like uh you know quebec separatists will see that as like a superficial

00:15:06.340 uh kind of thing where i guess their reasoning is more about culture and whatnot but like the reality

00:15:14.420 is like economical right like economics like what like your people's bottom line basically decides

00:15:21.460 for you know everything right they're buying power their um like ability to participate like instead of like

00:15:28.900 working like god knows how many hours um and so yeah because of that people just want more

00:15:36.020 certainty and yeah one of the things that troubles me a little bit about the app um recently like and

00:15:43.540 i don't these are things that like i know that they're willing to like uh work on and enhance

00:15:49.700 like i'm not i don't want to create a rift or anything because they're like the foremost organization

00:15:54.660 working towards independence and that matters is like like for example but like when when they don't

00:15:59.860 have like a set out plan for like because one of the biggest questions uh regarding albert independence

00:16:08.740 is like currency for example right what currency are we going to use and like in their um sort of like

00:16:15.860 like pamphlets that they hand out they say it's like a very like general like all-encompassing like

00:16:22.340 answer it's like oh we're gonna have a currency backed by natural resources uh crypto and like

00:16:29.460 what it's like it's just that does not sound that does not like brute confidence like in any shape

00:16:36.900 like way or form right like i know um people want to like go back to like a time when money was actually

00:16:44.580 tied to like finite uh things and whatnot but it's like do we do we really want that like is that a

00:16:55.140 hill that for example that like not want to die on but is that something that like we want to spearhead

00:17:01.380 when like canadians or like albertans i should say like just want like certainty like that's like the

00:17:10.420 foremost thing that they're looking for right and i feel like independence just has to shift towards

00:17:18.500 like a kind of remedy um yeah a remedy to canada's kind of like becoming this like extremely uncertain

00:17:29.460 like nation state right that just where you know what you're working towards is like the outcomes of

00:17:36.980 your work are like not guaranteed at all pretty much essentially it's just it's gone like so far

00:17:44.340 down the gutter um and yeah i think that's just that like that's to me personally people that are

00:17:52.180 seeking like more certainty like in regards to these topics that want like real clarity as to what they are

00:17:59.140 as to what um an independent alberta could actually be um like they're the ones that we need to focus on

00:18:06.500 and like that's where the messaging has to go and like yeah like what you guys have said like just

00:18:12.980 told me about like the smaller meetings um where you know there's like more women and you know they 1.00

00:18:21.940 participate more than men or like how how that ratio kind of affects uh people's willingness to take

00:18:29.060 charge like in conversations um that really like goes for everything right and so that's why like

00:18:36.020 i'm not against like at all where like for i'm not against groups that are like designated like for

00:18:44.020 like certain um like demographics or whatever to like speak on these issues right like that's why

00:18:50.020 like the ucp for example they have like a youth thing right like specifically geared towards young

00:18:56.820 people i don't know how many people attend it i've never attended one but i've like seen it and

00:19:01.780 that's that's very important to like be able to have these kind of um like meetings that branch off

00:19:10.580 of um the app town halls but that are that may or may not be um geared towards specific demographics

00:19:19.300 i think is very important well and to to go back to that certainty right that yearning for certainty

00:19:29.380 most women are very risk averse very risk averse like my marriage is quite the opposite my husband is

00:19:35.940 completely risk averse i'm like let's just jump in and figure out how to swim after we get there

00:19:39.460 right but that's not the norm most most women are very risk averse so when they're looking for 1.00

00:19:45.060 certainty a lot of what angela and i are doing in these meetings and in these conversations with

00:19:50.660 them is saying you're going to have to get comfortable with uncertainty for right now because

00:19:56.180 we don't we don't know what dollar we're going to use let's just be honest we have no idea because

00:20:02.180 it's going to completely matter as to where the whole entire world is at the time that we become our

00:20:10.020 own nation as to what dollar would most benefit us if any of them maybe it maybe it only benefits

00:20:16.580 us to have our own dollar and to create our own currency at that time but we don't know right we

00:20:21.940 don't know what a lot of things are going to look like but we do know that we're not going to be the

00:20:28.740 first chunk of land to ever become our own country and and distinguish ourselves from the rest of the

00:20:36.100 land around us so it's all figureoutable yeah that is my new favorite word it is figureoutable all of

00:20:42.580 it is and so to to help people get from here to here that yeah you know what okay it's it's going

00:20:48.900 to be liken it maybe to when when my sons moved out right when they flew the coop there was a lot of

00:20:55.620 uncertainty right there's a lot of uncertainty on both sides both for me and for them but both of my

00:21:03.780 sons are completely thriving right now because they were given that opportunity to figure life out

00:21:09.780 and in a much grander sense in a much larger sense we're doing the same thing as the province of

00:21:15.940 alberta we're saying no you know what this family is just a little too dysfunctional for us

00:21:22.980 to want to participate in anymore now my kids didn't leave because there was dysfunction they left

00:21:26.980 because i said like you're 18 figured out um actually they were both 20 but anyway uh

00:21:33.700 like it's the same same idea we we if we are going to to be all that we can be and we know that we can

00:21:42.100 be we're going to have to make this jump with the knowledge that we're not going to have all the answers

00:21:49.380 to every single question we're not we're going to have to just kind of go with the flow on a lot of

00:21:55.220 things and there will be a constitutional convention we're going to have to figure out what laws we 0.99

00:21:59.860 want to use we're going to figure out what laws we want to purge because they're stupid and they 0.96

00:22:04.580 try to make sure that we can't put anything on facebook um right like we're going to have to go 0.92

00:22:09.700 through all of those steps and procedures it's going to be a lot of work and we're going to have

00:22:14.900 to trust the process yeah but i believe i'm just crazy enough to believe that there are enough

00:22:21.460 level-headed albertans men and women alike who can work together to get us through that

00:22:29.060 yeah yeah and that's that's one of the things that's like working for us is that like

00:22:36.660 you know um yeah like uncertainty is a given of course like when you're taking action like this but

00:22:43.540 like so is being a part of well i shouldn't say well being a part of canada isn't uncertain it's just

00:22:48.980 like a very kind of like real just downward decline as like it feels like a slow death

00:22:55.860 yeah exactly what was going through my mind too yeah yeah exactly yeah it's a slow death and so it's

00:23:01.780 like i guess if if you were to pick your poison if you want to call it a poison it's like yeah do you

00:23:08.260 want to like sort of like work things out like as like we're going forward or do you just want to you

00:23:15.780 know stand by and do nothing and just watch you know canada cannibalize itself which is what's

00:23:22.180 happening like by every count and so yeah i think yeah what you say is very important about uncertainty

00:23:29.780 but i do think that still that like for a lot of the things like um yeah like say like like if if we

00:23:41.380 can't if say the app can't give definite answers to something like say currency or whether it's going

00:23:48.180 to be backed or whatever or say yeah like trade relationship with canada like they should just

00:23:54.260 state that like just give examples of like how procedures have gone like whether it was through like

00:24:03.780 countries that were newly formed and how whether they adopted new currencies and or just made their

00:24:12.100 own through a central bank and just kind of um hone in on the fact that like this isn't unprecedented

00:24:20.820 right like if in history like like a nation state like being born out of like the remnants of another

00:24:29.220 one is not like it's happened like a million times and you know the and sure yeah the cases

00:24:38.340 for each of those have been different right some have had you know coastal access some haven't had any

00:24:44.420 coastal access and in alberta's case uh we've only had coastal access in theory but not in actual

00:24:52.660 practice and so yeah i think just sort of yeah like just not sort of trying to ram through everything

00:25:04.740 by like giving like definite um examples of or definite like sort of paths to take on each of these issues

00:25:12.900 but like sort of calling back on like things that have already happened is very important

00:25:17.300 um oh exactly there's so many countries that have already done this that we can look to those

00:25:25.860 countries to go okay what worked and what didn't what you know who was involved what what were their

00:25:32.340 personalities like even because you want to make sure you've got people that can actually sit at the

00:25:36.500 table and work together um what were what were maybe the first things that they needed to do what

00:25:41.940 were the last things they needed to do even we don't even have to go back very far we can just go back to

00:25:46.340 brexit right and they had volumes literal volumes of of a plan of what to do that that's

00:25:57.300 that some of their statesmen sat down with experts and in all of these different fields right down to

00:26:02.580 what is our stamp going to look like right and so once we get and it doesn't make sense to do any of that now

00:26:10.820 because if it turns out heaven help us all but the majority don't want to see this referendum come

00:26:19.780 out to the positive for alberta and that would become our own nation well then all that work is

00:26:24.100 in vain it makes no sense to have done any of it right yeah exactly um however once that referendum

00:26:30.740 passes and now the negotiations are triggered that's when it matters greatly to get all those

00:26:37.940 legal beagles and eager minds and um i don't even care if they've got an absolute you know an alphabet

00:26:43.300 soup after their name all that tells me is that they can read a book and pass the test like let's

00:26:47.220 get the people in there who who are ready to roll up their sleeves put the work in you know do the long

00:26:52.900 hours maintain for their composure in the face of all the adversity that's going to come at us for doing

00:26:59.460 this and get that plan in place and get those volumes in place and then as because even the

00:27:06.980 negotiations like if anybody thinks for one minute that ottawa is going to make this a pleasant

00:27:11.540 experience they've lost their minds so as the as the negotiations go that might change up what dollar

00:27:19.460 we're going to use as the negotiation goes that might change up how our different social programs are

00:27:24.820 going to yeah it will probably be in my like to plan i'm like let's just plan for worst case scenario

00:27:32.020 and hope it doesn't happen right like that's the best way to put together any business plan and it

00:27:37.460 might very well be that the first thing ottawa does is say well you know what we're pulling your

00:27:42.180 education and your social and your health funding all that money that we were giving you back from

00:27:47.460 equalization which wasn't anything really exciting anyways we're taking it back and you're getting

00:27:53.460 nothing just to instill fear in people right just to be jerked and so we as albertans have to say

00:27:58.740 well fine here's the middle finger coming at your way we'll deal with it ourselves but we need the

00:28:04.420 right people who are willing to say that yeah and and and you know be somewhat cordial about it i suppose

00:28:12.580 but we we have to be ready for that that battle that's what that's about it's going to be a political

00:28:18.820 battle it's not going to be i really don't see this turning into any kind of a physical battle like

00:28:25.060 what some people are afraid of um but it's going to be a political battle so we're going to need those

00:28:30.980 the strongest people willing to just continue to forge forward and not not not cave to to that

00:28:39.780 emotional if you will um crap that's going to come our way and we're going to need us albertans we're going

00:28:47.780 to need to be strong um ourselves to balance those people right and and this is this is something 0.83

00:28:55.540 that our organization really focuses on is is building that community and building that um that

00:29:02.900 strength within each other that yeah we know that there's a battle coming and it's okay like we can do

00:29:08.260 this together yeah yeah that is yeah that's something that um yeah i think a lot of um i guess

00:29:18.340 progressive-minded people like you know once we sort of like reach a referendum and then enter negotiations

00:29:24.900 and like that'll just kind of expose like ottawa's sort of like wrath and like it'll finally set in like oh

00:29:34.900 okay like these people are not like our friends or any like you know basically threatening to

00:29:43.460 i guess yeah just take away all of our tax dollars and not give anything in return

00:29:49.620 um which which is almost what they're doing now it's just it's a it's a matter of scale right

00:29:56.820 and so um yeah i think that'll definitely uh that'll people will definitely like what whether they were

00:30:06.340 apathetic over the issue um or whether they were like very dead set on it or whether they want they

00:30:14.180 voted yes on the referendum or no depending how the question is going to be framed they wanted

00:30:19.940 like the negotiations to be triggered um like that like once yeah once they like face that kind of wrath

00:30:31.300 like they they will definitely understand and um but i think on the flip side of that is like

00:30:37.460 geopolitics in general because like once i know the app um have been talking with um you know us

00:30:45.460 administration which is great um like this is something that i know uh the ucp government has

00:30:54.260 has had like delegates where they go and talk to washington and whatnot for like specific trade things

00:30:59.860 but this is something that quebec's been doing for a while like we're like they're like yeah they're

00:31:04.500 like we're not gonna wait on ottawa to like go and like talk for us on our behalf like we're just

00:31:10.180 gonna go straight to it um and yeah the app's like been kind of doing that same thing and i think it's

00:31:18.180 really like it's kind of like a like we could pull like a kind of um like reverse trump card so to speak

00:31:24.500 right like if like if ottawa like were to really like hammer in on alberta like you know like through

00:31:34.580 those trade negotiations um that would just be like you know because of you know like symbolic u.s

00:31:43.140 recognition which i know after that like other countries will definitely follow like in europe

00:31:48.580 there's been a lot of like populist like conservative governments um like that'll really

00:31:58.260 wouldn't like work out in ottawa's favor in trade negotiations so that'll kind of pull them back in

00:32:03.380 line with yeah like whatever um like sort of what the separation plan is right what the divorce

00:32:11.780 proceedings are i guess um but yeah i don't know it's it's a lot to think about and it is a lot of

00:32:18.420 uncertainty but yeah we definitely need the bronze like you said right um you have people that are just

00:32:25.860 like yeah willing to fight for this um you know because yeah it's true like it's it only starts

00:32:33.540 like this only starts after a yes vote on the referendum like that's when this actually begins

00:32:41.140 and in a way that's a good thing because in a lot of people's minds like the moment

00:32:47.620 a referendum is passed or like a majority yes vote on a referendum question in regards to sovereignty

00:32:53.940 is passed that like you know ottawa's just turning off the taps um everything is just gonna go to hell 0.78

00:33:01.140 it's like no like by law that is not how any of this works right right um there will be a lot of

00:33:08.020 fear-mongering that follows um i know thomas lukasic uh with his forever canadian petition he was doing a

00:33:15.700 lot of that where he would pretty much like go outside of senior homes and like fear-monger over

00:33:21.460 uh how they were gonna lose their canadian pension plan which is just crazy like and it's it's not

00:33:28.900 even like possible like you know you have an organization that's at arm's length within the

00:33:34.180 government who's like basically like obliged to um yeah provide pension to all of its pensioners right

00:33:42.260 like literally wherever they are in the world so it's just like oh i mean it's just these kind of

00:33:49.300 fear tactics are like yeah like they're being utilized a lot by um like unconditional federalists

00:33:59.060 um and yeah that's something else that really needs to be called out like this kind of and we

00:34:03.780 need to be prepared for it right and you see that like the difference between you know if you ask

00:34:10.260 somebody who's for alberta independence give me 10 reasons why you can rattle them off super quick and

00:34:16.260 not all of them are economic some of them are many of them are but there's also you know i've had a

00:34:22.020 woman say to me at one of our meetings like i don't care about the economics i mean of course i want 1.00

00:34:25.940 to be able to feed my kids but i'm more concerned about the freedom aspect of this um okay so you

00:34:33.380 ask somebody on that side they can give you 10 reasons but you ask somebody on the other side

00:34:39.700 can you give me 10 reasons why we should stay with ottawa like and it's all if they do have reasons

00:34:45.540 they're all based in emotion yeah and and and fear like you said or like just a blind loyalty yeah

00:34:54.260 without actually looking at the facts and being loyal to something that is destructive is not a

00:35:00.740 virtue that's not a good thing right and so we definitely have to be prepared and we talk about

00:35:07.060 this in our meetings that education is key getting a solid um grasp on the facts and on the historical

00:35:18.260 facts and where we are today and what direction our country is going in we need a solid grasp on those

00:35:25.700 and that's what will combat those emotional reasonings um and arguments are going to be thrown at us

00:35:33.860 yeah yeah exactly yeah the emotional reasoning is paramount um and it's like i don't know i feel like

00:35:40.340 like you can't discredit it right like it's like people do i mean some a lot of people use this as

00:35:49.060 like bath bad faith right like a lot of them a lot of the anti um independence or like a lot of like

00:35:56.820 the unconditional federalists were you know trying to convey to people that were living on stolen land

00:36:02.900 and whatnot right like not too long ago but um a lot of people do feel like a real tie to canada or at

00:36:09.620 least like an idea of what of canada in their minds and it's just kind of like a like that like and

00:36:18.980 that can't be sort of like discredited i would say but it needs to be like it needs to be sort of

00:36:25.620 remedied by like optimism of like what an independent alberta actually is and like just this you know just

00:36:32.740 what's possible um you know once yeah we're not bottlenecked anymore and i think yeah i feel like

00:36:43.060 what you said about like the um sort of yeah like the education being really important in regards to

00:36:48.100 this topic like i i think another one of the things that app should be extremely honed in on right now

00:36:54.180 is like basically having ad campaigns addressing the major like yeah like doing like like rebuttals

00:37:03.060 of like major counter arguments for independence right like you know landlocked like you know what

00:37:08.820 does this mean and they sort of like like that should be their main focus right now because that's a lot

00:37:13.700 of where like federalists are like pushing uh people's buttons on right it's like and you know they 0.95

00:37:22.100 already have like a very clear you know like everyone like we have a clear uh understanding of

00:37:28.100 the whole of why the whole landlocked um thing like doesn't like i want to say it doesn't make sense but

00:37:34.340 the whole the claim that alberta would be landlocked uh is kind of like a retrospective kind of thing

00:37:42.260 where it's like well we're we're landlocked right now but then we're gonna be landlocked but then what's

00:37:48.100 gonna happen well obviously then you need to sort of bring in the fact that i think yeah under

00:37:54.420 international law how like a landlocked countries uh you know can't sort of be denied access to ports

00:38:02.900 that and also that um the kind of like increased trade with the us if canada isn't willing to budge

00:38:10.660 um also and i guess what else would be like yeah sort of like how like points of like integration

00:38:20.340 between alberta and canada whether it be the tmx pipeline or like railroads or like shipping routes

00:38:26.180 from bc to alberta to the rest of canada like these are kind of like leverage points that like if canada

00:38:33.620 were to you know negotiate in bad faith like it would just end like it would just end up worse for

00:38:40.980 everyone like just everyone and like you know it like yeah both like um canadians and albertans all

00:38:50.580 right when i say albertans i mean like you know albertan canadians i guess uh but um yeah i think that's

00:38:58.580 that's yeah from like how i see it that's like the one thing they need to focus on right now is to

00:39:04.900 like just do as many rebuttals of like counter arguments that come up for independence and they will

00:39:13.780 i think harad but that what we need to understand well first of all um to go back to like different

00:39:20.900 conversations that we're having with people i think one of the most important things we need

00:39:25.700 to do is give give our fellow albertans permission to challenge us on what we're on what we're saying

00:39:34.340 and what like i i want you i want you to challenge me i want to make sure i know my facts as well as i

00:39:40.340 think i do and that that what i'm what i'm thinking is correct because if i've missed something i want

00:39:46.740 to know about it and by doing that by putting ourselves almost like really in a place of vulnerability

00:39:53.220 that in my experience anyways has helped other people bring their guard down and go okay well

00:40:00.100 yeah let's let's talk about this on a on a more you know deeper level rather than just talking at

00:40:05.220 each other let's talk with one another and so that's one of the things that angela and i try to encourage

00:40:10.980 as well is is let's talk about this not let's not just us talking at you and and making sure to have

00:40:18.740 that conversation um the second thing with regards to the political players i'll call them right so

00:40:25.140 whether it's app whether it's a political party whether it's any any other group that might um

00:40:32.740 decide to to become some sort of a society to push to push the thoughts the ideas of of albert

00:40:39.220 independence given the political structure that we live in right now there's a right way and a very

00:40:46.020 wrong way to do that and so with app exactly what you're talking about with regards to having this

00:40:52.660 ad campaign or whatever that looks like whether it's billboards whether it's facebook ads whether it's

00:40:58.100 whatever they want to do as on youtube all of that kind of thing at this moment they can't because in

00:41:04.660 order to do that they have to register as a third party advertiser on the referendum with elections alberta so

00:41:12.100 my understanding now i'm not in the inner echelons and upper echelons of app but my understanding is

00:41:18.260 is that is definitely part of their plan that is part of their strategy to do that but they cannot do

00:41:23.860 it yet now when it happens whether it's them or whether it's somebody else who becomes this third

00:41:29.620 party advertiser you better believe we're going to see billboards we're going to see it on the side of

00:41:34.340 those trucks on highway on qe2 right coming in between edmonton and calgary we're going to see

00:41:40.420 um ads all over the place it's it's going to be massive it's going to be massive and there's going

00:41:47.540 to be equally massive on the other side yeah for sure yeah so we have to be ready for that as well

00:41:54.340 because we're going to those of us that that are kind of the i don't want to say the face of it because

00:42:00.660 i don't really think there's a face of the movement yet there are a lot of us that are

00:42:06.180 talking about it a lot we need to be mindful of those other ads so that when we're presenting to a

00:42:14.100 bunch of people or when we're just in conversation at the grocery store we can say yeah you know what

00:42:18.900 i did see that ad from luke has x forever canadian campaign or whatever it's going to be and and here's

00:42:25.700 where i i kind of disagree with it and then just kind of take it from there so there there's a

00:42:31.300 there's a political path to doing all of this that we can't just go flying out from our corners to make

00:42:38.020 it happen yeah and that's um that's just part of being in the west minister system unfortunately that

00:42:44.260 we're still in and we'll use it until we're not in it anymore yeah yeah no yeah playing by the rules is

00:42:49.860 yeah exactly as you described um i know yeah lukasic he i guess

00:42:57.460 he didn't um sort of like promote his petition through way of ad campaigns or whatnot but he had

00:43:04.100 so many connections uh you know through media you know like post media um ctv chorus that would just

00:43:13.220 kind of like constantly plaster uh his stuff like everywhere um and but yeah um obviously that's not

00:43:23.060 going to be something i guess the only like right or i guess independence minded if you can even call

00:43:30.900 them that uh publication that that there is in alberta it would be the western standard um but yeah like

00:43:39.460 it needs to be like the messaging does need to be extremely grassroots but another way they could

00:43:45.620 kind of um like remedy a lot of uh like that kind of um restriction on like advertisement is to like

00:43:54.980 invite like openly invite um like critics whether it be you know jason kenney or nahed nanshi even or

00:44:03.620 like lukasic himself like to invite them to like speak like with like live um like with a live video

00:44:12.900 feed to like speak with um like someone who's like extremely knowledgeable right um and sort of like

00:44:21.620 all of them refused yeah oh but they should they should they should state that they we have invited

00:44:26.980 them that's what i mean oh okay yeah like that should yeah like to like tell people like hey like

00:44:33.460 we've reached out to all these you know um anti-independence proponents um and you know by name

00:44:40.260 mention them by name and yeah we haven't received a response because that was vince byfield that tried

00:44:46.100 to put that together oh the poor guy he tried valiantly yeah that's right remember and they all refused he

00:44:52.580 had a hundred of of us ready to go for the four but he couldn't get one for the against so he couldn't

00:44:59.540 put the event together because nobody well and rebel news tried that too do you remember that event

00:45:05.060 that we went to in red deer last spring yeah um yeah so they it was keith wilson was supposed to

00:45:11.860 debate somebody from the other side and the only person they could get i can't remember his i think

00:45:16.420 his first name is adam adam leg i think anyways he's from lethbridge yeah um he said okay fine i'll do it

00:45:25.220 but it wasn't really a debate because he was like i just know right now i'm just going to be eaten

00:45:29.620 alive by keith wilson like i'm not really sure why i'm here and so he just made a few points but

00:45:35.860 it was like well okay yeah yeah that that needs to be called out i think i think yeah that's something

00:45:42.180 that like if if we've been reaching out to all these people i didn't i didn't this is news to me like

00:45:47.540 yeah yeah that's that's like that it shouldn't be like that right but right yeah you know because the

00:45:52.900 app yeah has been like reaching out to have live discussions with like so many people whether they

00:45:58.980 i don't know if it's been the app specifically or or i guess individuals or there's other individuals

00:46:04.820 like mediators like rebel or yeah whoever or maybe even like i guess they could even like an

00:46:10.820 individual like keith wilson for example he could um he could like i guess say like he wouldn't have

00:46:18.740 to request a specific mediator he could just be like the mediator of choice of like his like debate

00:46:24.740 opponent so to speak whether that's like cable news or like just like a live stream on facebook or

00:46:31.140 literally anything that like this that yeah like to like sort of like roll out these like letters

00:46:38.580 kind of or like yeah ask them to come and like debate this i'll tell you a neat story yeah is um there's a

00:46:46.580 one gentleman that i was introduced to just yesterday and he it was a friend of mine who met

00:46:52.740 him at an app event and he had all kinds of questions and he is just kind of new to this whole

00:46:59.860 alberta independence thing and and is still he says yeah you know what we need to do this but i'm just not

00:47:05.700 not quite 100 there yet and so this friend of mine says well maybe you need to talk to kathy get a group

00:47:11.300 of people together and talk to kathy she's okay fine so i give him a well so i was chatting with

00:47:16.660 him yesterday and what he wants to do what he what his intention was that i didn't know

00:47:23.860 is to do just this so have myself in front of an audience with somebody else to have a conversation

00:47:31.940 about the the pros and the cons of staying and leaving and and he's just a just a dude who said you

00:47:38.740 know what i'll rent a place in edmonton i'll charge everybody 10 bucks so i don't have to pay for it

00:47:43.780 out of pocket and if you'll come and talk about the the pros i'll find someone to talk about the

00:47:50.740 against and he's bringing in all people who are against so i'm i'm going right into the lion's den

00:47:57.140 here potentially and i just thought you know what that's awesome that's what we need yeah this guy

00:48:03.940 came to an app event he didn't agree with everything that was said but certainly enough

00:48:08.420 of it to pique his interest uh and he knows a bunch of other people that are not here yet but

00:48:14.980 he wants to be able to deliver the message to them in a way that they can receive it and understand it

00:48:20.180 and so in a smaller group setting of i don't know i don't know what there's going to be maybe 40 or 50

00:48:25.780 people um have two of us there talking about the pros and the cons of either side now i'm going to be

00:48:32.340 interested to see who he finds uh to say that we should stay i don't know who that person is going

00:48:37.700 to be yet but i just thought good for you man good for you you didn't wait for somebody else to do it

00:48:44.740 you just talk to some people grab the bull by the horns who can i call who can i get happened to talk

00:48:49.860 to a friend of mine who happened to give me his name and number and here we go and i think maybe

00:48:55.060 that's what we need as far as a grassroots movement is more people across the province to say

00:49:03.540 you know what i don't agree with this so i'm gonna call somebody who does and see if they'll

00:49:08.100 come and talk to us yeah just in a smaller group setting as opposed to in you know 300 people in a

00:49:13.780 room and nobody's really too sure who's going to pull the knife out first yeah yeah because that's

00:49:17.780 kind of what it feels like sometimes yeah for sure yeah that's um yeah it's very important like

00:49:23.140 you have yeah and it's something that i've been meaning to speak about more but like you have to

00:49:28.420 engage with people who like you can't just assume out the get-go the people who are against independence

00:49:35.860 are just doing it in bad faith right and so you have to engage with them and like actually see what

00:49:40.580 their like concerns are because yeah they might actually raise something that you hadn't thought

00:49:45.060 about right in like regards to like a contingency right and it and it's so like to have a good

00:49:51.940 like conversation with them like also then like inverse like it also like sharpens your own rhetoric

00:50:00.180 right and like when you talk to more people about the issue and so it's like yeah we need to yeah like

00:50:06.340 we definitely like the dip like a sort of um like a like a debate whether it be on someone's like

00:50:13.940 independent youtube channel or uh you know whatever news outlet or uh maybe even live like in person

00:50:22.820 like these kinds of conversations like they need to happen because from where i'm standing and where

00:50:28.900 you guys i'm sure are standing like the facts and figures like back our cause like the most right and

00:50:37.620 like that's and that's something that can't be like it's very hard to argue against i won't say

00:50:45.060 can't argue against it but it's extremely hard to argue against it and no one and still no one in good

00:50:50.500 faith has been able to right they've just resorted that's why they resort to fear mongering

00:50:56.340 yeah and all these other kinds of things and so yeah it's definitely um yeah something that yeah

00:51:04.420 should be pushed for more um but yeah um at the end of the day harad the people that want to see us

00:51:11.540 remain in canada from my observations and experience kind of they they fall into two camps the first camp

00:51:19.300 are the kajillionaires who have much to lose potentially in their business models because their business models

00:51:25.300 are across the country and then globally or whatever and uh we've seen some of them pop up to try and

00:51:32.660 and make a mess of things so that's the first camp so it's a smaller camp don't need to worry about that

00:51:38.100 but the second camp who who really comes against us quite a bit and gets very emotional are the ones who

00:51:47.140 have such a hard time believing that their country kind of hates them yeah right like it's just

00:51:55.060 it's tough to think that you know they were born here they raised their family here they've got

00:52:00.980 their home here they've done all the things that they were supposed to do to belong to this country

00:52:06.580 that is canada they sang the national anthem the first iteration of it not the last five that we

00:52:12.180 heard at the blue jays games um you know at at school they they learned all of that they they did

00:52:17.860 scouts and brownies and all the canadiana to then have to admit ottawa has always hated albertans

00:52:28.020 yeah and i don't say that lightly and that's tough that is really hard to get your mind wrapped around

00:52:35.220 and we've got to give people that opportunity to kind of journey through it's literally like

00:52:38.980 like the the whole what is it dabda denial anger oh bargaining depression you know all the way

00:52:46.340 through yeah yeah you gotta let them go through that stage of grief to get to the other side

00:52:50.500 it's true yeah it's true for sure yeah well yeah no that that was definitely yeah enlightening to

00:52:58.340 speak with you guys again um yeah it's good i don't know i thought i thought i was like yelling in a

00:53:04.820 vacuum in regards to like some of the stuff that we need to be doing more but you know obviously i

00:53:10.500 was like mistaken obviously it's a lot of this is already going ahead which is good but um yeah

00:53:16.580 anyways uh any last words uh before yeah we end this or yeah thank you so much iran it's awesome thank

00:53:24.740 you it was great talking to you again and and we always like at our meetings you know people will

00:53:30.580 bring up oh the young people and i'm like they're there it's peter go find them yeah and they get

00:53:37.540 really excited when we tell them about the work that you're doing yeah yeah that's fantastic that's

00:53:42.420 awesome yeah well yes yeah i know yeah i i do want to bring more young people on board and i also wanted

00:53:49.700 to shout out um juno news uh they've had a i don't know their names but they've had a couple of youngsters

00:53:56.660 who've been like covering this movement a lot um yeah yeah i noticed that yeah yeah so that's good

00:54:03.940 but um yeah anyways yeah thanks to you guys for uh coming on and everything and uh yeah have a good

00:54:11.140 rest of your day you too take care

The Alberta Project - December 28, 2025

Interview with Alberta Women's Independence Network

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