The Alberta Project - Michael Wagner on Parti Quebecois recognition of Alberta Independence

00:00:00.000 Hello, everyone. Welcome back. Surprise guests that I brought back to discuss some very interesting

00:00:09.140 events that have transpired. If you've been in this movement and you've been following,

00:00:17.560 I guess, figureheads and whatnot, Michael Wagner doesn't need an introduction. But for you,

00:00:23.200 for those of you who don't know, Michael is a political science PhD from the U of A. And he's

00:00:31.900 written several books, notably No Other Option and Time to Leave, which I have read. And I'm sure

00:00:42.020 he's also written several other books, which hopefully he'll be talking about today. And yeah,

00:00:47.720 I just wanted to bring him on and talk about this Parti Quebecois announcement of recognition

00:00:57.280 of Alberta as a sovereign nation. Yeah, once they get into power, which is very likely according to

00:01:06.180 the polls. But yeah, and yeah, neither of us have too much of a insight in like Quebec politics. And

00:01:16.240 I guess the historical grievances. But yeah, today, we'll just be sort of dissecting that,

00:01:24.020 you know, what it could mean and like what the movement in Alberta could learn from Quebec. So

00:01:30.680 yeah, Michael, if you'd like to introduce yourself. Sure, thanks for having me on again. I'm Michael

00:01:37.220 Wagner, and I've written three books on the Alberta independence movement, as well as various columns for

00:01:42.320 the Western Standard. So I was originally, I got involved in politics originally when I was a

00:01:46.500 teenager during the early 1980s with Pierre Trudeau attacking Alberta. And so I've maintained a certain

00:01:53.060 degree of interest over that time. And especially since Justin Trudeau was elected in 2015, I was kind

00:01:58.620 of reengaged on this issue. And so I've been, I guess, an observer and somewhat participant since that

00:02:06.000 time in helping to promote Alberta independence. So that's kind of a brief background for me on this issue.

00:02:10.780 Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And yeah, Michael's has been super effective in terms of, I guess,

00:02:17.360 uncovering like the historical precedent of the movement and just like, I guess, Western alienation

00:02:23.860 as a general. And also, yeah, I saw I read your recent column on the Western Standard. It was about

00:02:32.260 like the prairie identity and like the settlers who'd been here and like commentary from like an

00:02:37.940 Easterner who had sort of documented all of it. And it was very interesting. And it got me thinking

00:02:42.520 about like, how I guess, you know, the one of the strongest things that Quebec Sovereignists have

00:02:49.420 going for them is like a very rigid, like concrete sense of national identity, right? And that comes

00:02:56.900 from a shared history and, you know, yeah, lineage. And I guess like, yeah, just sort of, yeah, yeah, I guess

00:03:08.340 mostly history and what's transpired there. And I feel like here in Alberta, a lot of that isn't really

00:03:14.980 like, covered in the mainstream, like, unless you like seek out for it. Like, I didn't even know,

00:03:22.740 like anything about like the cattle drive, like before I got into this movement and started reading

00:03:29.260 some stuff about it. And so yeah, what like what? That's Yeah, that's one thing that really,

00:03:35.440 like, has like, I guess, captured me in terms of Quebec's sentiment, like separatist sentiment,

00:03:43.920 so to speak, is that it's extremely, like grounded, you know, in history, and also that it's very,

00:03:50.820 that it doesn't waver as much as Alberta's does, right? That's one of the big things that should

00:03:57.080 be addressed. So yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a, that's actually a huge difference between Alberta

00:04:02.300 and Quebec. Because going back several hundred years, like they were settled by France. So their 0.99

00:04:07.600 language and their culture was different right from the very beginning. So of course, they were, 1.00

00:04:12.160 you know, conquered by the British, essentially, you know, with that Battle of the Plains of Abraham,

00:04:16.000 I think that was 1759 or something. And they've, many of them have considered themselves, you know,

00:04:20.360 under occupation since that time, for several generations. So they've always had that sense of

00:04:25.780 being different from the rest of Canada, because they're French speaking and Catholic. And you know,

00:04:29.800 in the early days, English Canada was very Protestant. And so you have those language and

00:04:34.720 religion, if not other differences, you know, that really distinguish those two groups of people.

00:04:40.460 And so Quebec has always had a very strong sense of national identity. And there is a sense in which

00:04:46.520 Quebec is its own nation. Because when you think of a nation as, you know, a group of people with a

00:04:50.840 common culture and language that, you know, that makes them different from the others. So there is

00:04:55.220 a sense in which Quebec is a nation, in a sense that Alberta is not like Alberta is part of English

00:05:00.420 speaking Canada, we do have differences from other parts of English speaking Canada, but it's not a

00:05:04.760 different language and a different culture. And so we're not as distinct as Quebec is,

00:05:10.020 and we never will be in that sense, you know, and so Alberta's main grievances, right from the very 0.99

00:05:15.840 beginning with Canada have mostly been economic, mostly has to do with economic policies. And we're

00:05:20.900 being mistreated, you know, our farmers having to pay too much to ship their grain and things like

00:05:25.140 that. And then especially with the, the energy crisis, our oil not, you know, we weren't getting

00:05:30.020 the price for our oil, we should have because Central Canada was taking a much of our oil and now,

00:05:34.380 and now with the climate change agenda, they want to shut down our oil industry. And so all

00:05:39.780 along, for the most part, our grievances have been economic, which is very different from Quebec's

00:05:44.740 situation. So, so it would be actually, if the Liberal Party was smart, they would be able to

00:05:50.740 give us some policies that would make us feel happy, and we wouldn't feel like we would need to leave.

00:05:56.920 I mean, they haven't done that, at least for the most part. But I mean, they could do that,

00:06:01.280 like they could, they could win most Albertans over to their cause or to the idea of Canadian

00:06:06.320 identity, just by giving us some wins in the policy field towards, you know, it wouldn't have to be a

00:06:13.460 whole lot, because there's a lot of Westerners who like right now believe in independence, they would

00:06:18.400 be easily won back to supporting United Canada, if the Liberals weren't attacking us all the time,

00:06:23.120 essentially, they would just stop attacking us, and let us develop economically. A lot of the people who are,

00:06:28.240 you know, sympathetic to Western independence would kind of switch back to supporting Canada,

00:06:32.700 like people like me, who've been more deeply involved for longer, I don't know that I could

00:06:36.940 ever be won back. But but I'm in the minority that way. Whereas, you know, most Albertans who do support

00:06:42.180 independence could be won back with the right policies, whereas Quebec is different, because

00:06:45.800 there's not much that Canada could do, you know, to reconcile with a completely different cultural and 1.00

00:06:51.060 linguistic perspective. Although, you know, it has to be said that, right from the very beginning of

00:06:55.140 Canada, the federal government has tried to, you know, accommodate Quebec, like they were allowed

00:06:59.640 to have French in their government, you know, and in all their, you know, basically act their 0.59

00:07:03.620 activities, they were allowed to have their language, they're allowed to have their religion,

00:07:06.360 like when even going back to the 1700s, when Britain took over, like Britain could have like

00:07:10.740 imposed things on Quebec, but instead, they wanted to win their loyalty by allowing them to have their

00:07:16.220 own religion and their own language and stuff. And they did win that loyalty, because then when the 13

00:07:20.600 colonies declared independence from Britain and wanted to, you know, wanted all of North America to

00:07:25.120 be independent, you know, they sent troops to Quebec and Quebec stayed on British on the British side

00:07:29.980 and stayed in, you know, with Britain, because Quebec knew that they could count on Britain to

00:07:35.040 give them the freedom for their language and their culture. And they, they didn't think they could

00:07:38.560 count on the Americans to do that. And they were probably wise about that. So the British strategy 0.92

00:07:43.700 did win, you know, by allowing them to be who they really are, you know what I mean? But it did,

00:07:48.440 you know, maintain then that cultural and linguistic distinctiveness all the way till this time.

00:07:53.180 So, so it's hard, you know, they're not going to be, you know, what's the word, I can't think of the

00:08:00.440 word, but like, they're not going to become English speaking Canadians in Quebec, they're going to stay 0.99

00:08:03.620 French speaking Quebecers. So we're not going to have a melting pot where they become the, you know, 1.00

00:08:09.360 like the rest of us, they're going to stay distinct. And so they will always have that identity.

00:08:13.040 And so there will always be a basis for Quebec nationalism that looks towards independence,

00:08:18.260 that will always be there. Whereas in Alberta, like I said, it's mostly based on economic matters.

00:08:23.660 And so that's why it waivers here, because sometimes things go better for us economically,

00:08:28.120 you know, from the federal government perspective, and our support for independence goes down. And then

00:08:33.480 we get someone like Justin Trudeau, and support for independence goes up. So ours waivers back and

00:08:37.740 forth, like support for independence in Quebec waivers to some degree, but Quebec nationalism

00:08:42.840 doesn't so much waver, because it's rooted in their culture and their language.

00:08:46.880 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, what you said, yeah, about the liberal, yeah, I do feel like

00:08:53.020 the independence, I guess, base here is like very tentative, like a very big portion of them.

00:09:01.480 Like, yeah, if we had gotten another conservative government, it would probably have been sentiment

00:09:06.820 would have been in the low teens. But, and yeah, I guess like, just like you said, right, like just

00:09:12.480 giving little bits and pieces of autonomy to Alberta. And what's interesting to me is that it's

00:09:18.560 not even some polling from Anger Street, like this is like, what really blew my mind, maybe like,

00:09:24.760 made me a little bit angry, is that like, some people are like, willing to, like, hop off the

00:09:32.440 independence train, just by like, like, just from like, one pipeline being built, which is just

00:09:38.980 insane to me, right? Because of, you know, like, what we're trying to fight for here, what, what's

00:09:45.320 like, to really try to set an example, as of, like, a nation, right, sort of getting, sort of like,

00:09:57.020 getting out of Ottawa's grip, right, and like, centralized control. And, you know, that's something

00:10:01.720 even Quebec has had to, like, combat, right? They have a lot of autonomy, of course, but

00:10:08.260 it's because that's something that they've been like, very, like, adamant in like, fighting for,

00:10:15.380 right? Like, I know there's a lot of points of like, contention, like, historically, like,

00:10:20.940 especially in regards to, like, the two world wars, where, you know, Canada had, you know, drafts and

00:10:29.040 whatnot. And Quebec was, like, very vehemently against it, always. And there were a lot of

00:10:34.200 clashes, like, with law enforcement, and like, you know, civilians died. And it was just a very bad

00:10:40.080 situation, right? And so, you know, because, you know, perhaps maybe Alberta is relatively newer,

00:10:47.080 right? 120 years. And because, yeah, we weren't, how do I say this? Alberta wasn't like a founding

00:10:57.700 sort of province that sort of, that began when the Dominion formed. And, but yeah, like, but the

00:11:09.240 thing about, like, a government, specifically the liberal government ever, you know, giving Alberta

00:11:15.580 wins is that it's, you and I both know, it's extremely unlikely, because ever since, like,

00:11:23.660 ever since, you know, Lester B. Pearson, like, liberal prime ministers have always just been,

00:11:30.240 you know, running after, like, international, like, accolades, and, like, peacekeeping, and,

00:11:36.260 you know, environmentalism, and just all this BS, pretty much. And, you know, that,

00:11:42.660 that puts them at odds with actually, like, you know, properly governing in Canada, and,

00:11:48.440 you know, making sure that it's, you know, prosperous, and that, you know, people are

00:11:52.380 content, and don't feel like they're being ripped off at every corner, right? And so, yeah, and that's,

00:12:00.080 it's, it's, it is like a liberal policy, like you mentioned, you know, the first time that you came on,

00:12:05.980 you know, profitable federalism, right, where Quebec essentially just gets to reap so many benefits

00:12:14.140 because of dangling the threat of separation, and that, you know, prime ministers, you know, who want,

00:12:23.600 who've always wanted central control, don't really want, don't really want to see, like,

00:12:28.940 a body, you know, like a territory to, like, secede away from Canada. It would, because they sort of

00:12:37.180 view Canada as, like, a, you know, pet project towards, that, you know, should work towards their

00:12:42.360 ideological ideals and whatnot. And so, but I guess my fear is that, like, this, you know,

00:12:54.140 this sort of, um, carny government coming in, well, I guess, I should say, my fear of, like,

00:12:59.220 a conservative government is that they've had to pivot a lot recently, right? Like, not just after,

00:13:05.500 um, forming with reform, but, like, you know, during, um, like, Polyev's campaign, right? Like,

00:13:12.480 he did a lot of, um, like, I guess he engaged with a lot of diaspora politics, right? Where he'd wear

00:13:19.180 dresses from, like, you know, different cultures and, you know, appease to different people. And,

00:13:24.300 you know, he's, he's said some very interesting things, you know, like, um, like, you know,

00:13:30.460 being Canadian has nothing to do with, um, say, your background or lineage, which, you know, that's,

00:13:37.640 that's something that, I guess, he, obviously, he's trying to be, you know, inclusive towards his,

00:13:44.600 you know, um, migrant base, who's, like, very, like, socially conservative, right? Um, and to try

00:13:52.460 to get those wins, but it also does, you know, undermine, um, I guess, Canada as a whole, so to

00:14:00.640 speak, as, you know, sort of being, like, it undermines, it's, like, Canada's roots as, like,

00:14:08.260 um, you know, people from the British colonies, essentially, that didn't, uh, defect to the

00:14:14.000 United States, right, that sort of had their own, um, yeah, that sort of, like, kept their loyalty

00:14:21.900 and, like, how that sort of shaped the dominion and whatnot. But, um, yeah, I guess, yeah, like,

00:14:30.160 I just don't see, um, yeah, any government, like, this is, oh, what I was also going to mention

00:14:35.840 about Paul Yev is that this is someone who's, um, who set on record that he wouldn't make any

00:14:41.480 drastic changes to equalization, right? Like, this sort of, especially after the merger

00:14:46.500 between, you know, the PCs and reform, like, conservative appeasement towards, like, the

00:14:52.340 eastern provinces, like, is first priority always, like, no matter what. Um, yeah, sure,

00:14:58.860 like, we'll get pipelines here and there, but as long as, yeah, the Conservative Party of Canada

00:15:04.700 is concerned, um, this sort of, like, wealth transfer from Alberta to the rest of the country,

00:15:11.720 um, should, you know, remain the same, right? Um, they don't really want to amend it or make

00:15:18.580 any changes to it, but, um, yeah, and I, something I want to mention also is that, you know, the

00:15:24.660 Parti Québécois, um, you know, although they've, you know, backed independence, a lot of people

00:15:29.180 see them as, you know, being anti-Alberta because, you know, they have, um, you know, historically

00:15:33.880 blocked or, I guess, you know, been opposed to, um, you know, national, uh, like, energy

00:15:40.360 infrastructure, like Energy East, but in a, in a sense, like, this is one of those situations

00:15:45.420 where I see, like, I'm sure you've heard the phrase, like, our difference, our differences

00:15:51.660 are our strengths, which is, you know, like, a whole lot of baloney for the most part, but

00:15:57.440 in this instance, it's really, it really speaks to, like, something true and, like, it's very

00:16:03.700 much, um, like, in this instance, like, our differences do make our strengths in terms

00:16:09.120 of, like, sovereignist movements, right, where you have two territories, right, who's, you

00:16:15.100 know, because of historical precedents and their economies that are, you know, vastly different

00:16:20.340 and how they produce their energy and whatnot that, you know, have opposing worldviews on, um,

00:16:26.260 how they should be governed, right, and so when you have a central body trying to sort

00:16:33.180 of, um, I guess, well, it's not like, not that it's ever been two-sided between Alberta

00:16:38.440 and Quebec because they're a much bigger voting bloc, but trying to, um, you know, just make

00:16:44.840 massive cash grabs to then, you know, put into Quebec's pockets, right, just to appease

00:16:50.080 them.

00:16:50.260 Well, at that point, it's, like, because Quebec and Alberta are so different on so many fundamental

00:16:55.500 ways, like, should, like, is there a, um, path forward where, like, both territories can

00:17:02.880 be, like, governed by the same, like, central body that doesn't even want to recognize the

00:17:09.400 differences between these provinces?

00:17:11.280 Like, that's, like, the level that we're talking about, right?

00:17:16.280 Yeah, well, like, the only way those kinds of differences could be accommodated within

00:17:21.000 one country is through a proper federal system, and there's a sense in which Canada had a

00:17:26.360 reasonably good federal system for, you know, the first hundred years or so.

00:17:30.180 Like, you mentioned Pearson, and that's a good point because it was under Pearson when

00:17:33.700 Pierre Trudeau became a cabinet minister.

00:17:35.440 Like, I think he got involved in the Liberals, politically, through, under Pearson and became

00:17:39.440 a cabinet minister, and it was when he was a cabinet minister, the justice minister, he

00:17:42.660 proposed the, what would, what would become Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

00:17:47.600 And, like, that's a centralizing device.

00:17:51.120 Like, the charter itself centralizes Canada by making all Canadians look to one particular

00:17:56.620 federal government document, you know, for their rights, and that was part of Trudeau's

00:18:00.180 agenda.

00:18:01.480 Like, Trudeau, Pierre Trudeau, more than any other person, in my opinion, wanted to centralize

00:18:06.300 power in Ottawa, so he wanted to diminish provincial differences and provincial loyalties.

00:18:11.840 In fact, you know, he got involved in politics partly to offset Quebec nationalism, like he

00:18:16.060 was opposed to Quebec nationalism.

00:18:17.680 He wanted to have, like, one Canada kind of thing, and so that's why he brought in the

00:18:21.700 Official Languages Act to make French more prominent in other parts of Canada so that

00:18:25.680 Quebec would feel, Quebecers would feel at home in Canada and have just one country.

00:18:28.980 So he wanted to diminish the regional differences, and I guess that the Official Languages Act did

00:18:33.680 that to some degree, too, by making all of Canada bilingual rather than some part of it

00:18:38.000 English and some part of it French.

00:18:39.300 Like, those are regional differences.

00:18:40.720 His idea was to make it, to reduce the regional differences, and the Charter of Rights was one

00:18:45.320 of those things, and there were other things, too, but he wanted to centralize that power in

00:18:50.020 Ottawa, and so that goes against having, you know, distinct provinces with differences, you know,

00:18:55.640 whether it's cultural differences or economic differences.

00:18:57.960 It's hard to accommodate those differences when you want to centralize power in the federal

00:19:01.420 government, and, you know, you kind of get more of a unitary state than a federal state

00:19:05.800 that way, and that's kind of was Trudeau's, you know, basic idea.

00:19:10.080 That's one of the things he wanted to accomplish, and so that's one of the reasons that he ended

00:19:14.260 up sparking the Alberta independence movement, which hadn't been there so much before, because,

00:19:18.820 you know, he was crushing Alberta.

00:19:20.380 I mean, he did it economically.

00:19:21.580 That's what his main contribution, but overall, his idea was to centralize things and, like

00:19:26.040 you say, to diminish those differences, and so the federal system, which could have accommodated

00:19:32.220 those differences if operated properly, you know, is broken down so that, like I'd like

00:19:37.840 to say, federalism in Canada is broken, and that's why we have to become independent, because

00:19:43.160 we can't get the kinds of policies we need unless we're independent, because the people

00:19:47.940 in Ottawa aren't going to give us what we need so that we can flourish, so that we can

00:19:51.800 prosper.

00:19:52.220 But if we became independent, we can elect people who will do that, and in a proper federal

00:19:56.320 system, we shouldn't be able to have a, you know, Alberta prosperity within a united Canada

00:20:00.300 in a proper system, but Trudeau broke that system, and now the Liberals aren't going

00:20:04.800 to bring it back, and I don't think the Conservatives are either, because like you said, you know,

00:20:08.020 Pierre Polyev, although the Conservatives under Polyev would be better for Alberta than

00:20:11.640 the Liberals, there's no question about that, he still has to embrace the equalization

00:20:17.120 program, or else he'll never win.

00:20:18.660 And he also said that he wouldn't pull Canada out of the Paris Accord, which, you know,

00:20:24.040 commits us to certain climate change policies, and he wouldn't support an Alberta pension

00:20:27.660 plan.

00:20:27.980 So he has to support these kind of national type of programs against Alberta if he wants

00:20:33.240 to win Ontario and Quebec, and he does.

00:20:35.280 So he's forced by the Canadian system to adopt policies that are bad for Alberta just because

00:20:41.120 he wants to win.

00:20:42.360 So although he would be better than the Liberals, you know, it's a matter of degree rather than

00:20:46.360 of kind, he wouldn't be substantially better.

00:20:47.940 But like you mentioned earlier, a Polyev victory would have been enough to, you know, really 0.92

00:20:53.960 hurt the independence movement to the point where it would never be successful, because

00:20:57.280 he'd, just by Pierre Polyev winning, enough Albertans would feel happy within Canada to

00:21:02.620 reduce support for independence, and the independence agenda would be off, you know, it'd be off the 1.00

00:21:07.200 table until the Liberals won again, probably, unless you did something really stupid. 0.98

00:21:12.060 Yeah, yeah, and I guess, maybe not a Liberal win, but like a long Liberal tenure again, like 0.99

00:21:19.140 that would just, yeah, I mean, I don't know, that would really, you know, rock everyone's

00:21:24.940 boat.

00:21:25.680 But I also wanted to talk about something like interesting that I've been following is that

00:21:31.840 like, the, you know, the Canadian, the non-Quebec or Canadian who currently envies Quebec the

00:21:39.140 most is like Danielle Smith, like from the way I see it, like she, and you know, like

00:21:44.760 on all the good ways, right?

00:21:46.000 Like she's always, she's been pushing for an APP for, you know, local police services,

00:21:51.880 you know, separate from the RCMP for an end to equalization.

00:21:57.400 Maybe that's, well, I guess that's not, that's not a difference from Quebec since, even though

00:22:02.560 they're on the receiving end, they do participate in equalization, so to speak.

00:22:06.440 But yeah, and to like actually have control over immigration like Quebec does, right?

00:22:13.380 I remember distinctly, like I always knew that, like she really, she's always been like

00:22:19.960 very like jealous of, I don't want to say jealous, very envious of that, like kind of autonomy

00:22:24.180 that Quebec is granted.

00:22:25.940 And the, and yeah, she really, she had to like spell that out loud, like during the Edmonton,

00:22:33.360 Alberta next panel that I was in, which was like the Edmonton one was like a complete 0.98

00:22:37.500 shit show, by the way. 0.97

00:22:39.480 You weren't there. 0.97

00:22:40.320 I think I emailed you actually, you said you weren't going, but yeah, it was, it's good

00:22:44.140 that you weren't there.

00:22:45.360 It was, it just, but yeah, like she said it out loud.

00:22:48.700 She said, we want Alberta to be more like Quebec, right?

00:22:51.920 And that's basically the culmination of like a lot of the work that she's been trying to

00:22:56.320 doing, that she's been trying to do.

00:22:58.260 And, um, the, uh, the leader of the party Quebecois, he's been sort of, I guess, how

00:23:05.120 do I say, like, he's been like sort of trying to nudge her like on the Sovereignist side.

00:23:11.440 He's, he's, he's been, you know, um, I wouldn't say congratulating her, but he's like said on

00:23:17.560 multiple occasions that, you know, Smith, she's playing her cards, right?

00:23:20.760 Like, I guess from like a perspective of like a Sovereignist and whatnot, right?

00:23:25.760 Even though I do believe, uh, Smith, whenever she says, you know, Sovereign Alberta within

00:23:30.940 a United Canada, even though, you know, to some people that sounds, uh, like an oxymoron,

00:23:37.280 like, I don't think it does like a Sovereign, like it could happen.

00:23:40.580 I mean, sorry, it theoretically could happen under like a good federal, like Federalist system

00:23:47.540 that actually grants autonomy to, um, you know, it's distinct territories and whatnot, but

00:23:53.400 that's just a pipe dream, right?

00:23:54.940 I mean, Danielle Smith, she's, she's like a lot of the things that a lot of the reforms 0.95

00:24:00.340 she wants to bring about, um, involve constitutional amendments, which, you know, you and I both

00:24:06.900 know that that's like, practically it's impossible.

00:24:09.280 Like that is never going to happen.

00:24:10.580 Like she, she thinks that she can sort of, um, you know, through consensus building, right?

00:24:15.940 With other provinces, uh, you know, propose like an end to equalization, given that, you

00:24:21.740 know, provinces get a higher portion of the taxes, like something like from 60%, 60% going

00:24:28.440 towards the provinces and 40 towards the federal, uh, federal government, which is currently the

00:24:33.580 opposite of that right now.

00:24:35.140 It's a 40, 60 split.

00:24:37.100 And I just don't, I'm, I'm sure I don't, she's not naive, right?

00:24:41.720 You can call her optimistic.

00:24:43.140 She's not naive, but I think, you know, she is definitely like, like nudging towards like,

00:24:50.720 sort of like, I guess pushing, like, you know, cornering Ottawa in a sense that, you know,

00:24:59.040 once people recognize that these sorts of autonomies like won't ever be granted to Alberta, 0.74

00:25:05.440 that, who would then, you know, those people who are on the fence right now, you know, a big,

00:25:13.580 like a large majority of them, I would say would fall to the independent side.

00:25:18.260 But even though there are like, um, they, they still may be very tentative, you know, which is,

00:25:23.700 I wouldn't say it's fine, but it's just the nature of, you know, politics here.

00:25:28.600 And just because it is because, um, it is like, um, partly the reason for that is because

00:25:36.040 independence is very taboo here, even though like, it's not something that's unprecedented.

00:25:41.120 Like there's already been two, um, referendums in Quebec, right?

00:25:46.420 Despite, um, you know, people like Jason Kenney saying that he'd do anything in his power to

00:25:51.040 stop a referendum, like from happening.

00:25:53.740 Not, not even that he's, uh, that he would, he would vote no on a referendum, but that

00:25:58.940 he, he would like do, yeah, try to prevent a referendum on the issue, like a legitimate

00:26:05.260 referendum on the issue from happening, which is crazy to me.

00:26:08.720 It's just, it's extremely undemocratic, um, and like authoritarian.

00:26:12.860 And I feel like it's something that needs to be called out.

00:26:16.920 And, but yeah, what, I guess what other points of collaboration, I know they have, um,

00:26:23.740 the, uh, yeah, the leader of the party, Quebecois, he mentioned that like in secession negotiations

00:26:28.300 with Ottawa, like if we ever get there, that they would lend a helping hand to Alberta.

00:26:34.800 But I'm just wondering, like, what do you think like that could possibly entail?

00:26:41.780 Well, like one of the things that Quebec has had for a long time because of the strong

00:26:45.700 separatist movement there is they've had prominent people who support separatism, like, uh,

00:26:50.440 university professors and lawyers and people like that with expertise.

00:26:54.440 And because we, like you mentioned earlier, like, um, it's like here in Alberta, there's

00:26:59.380 basically a stigma still, if you support independence or separatism, there's a stigma.

00:27:03.080 So there's nobody, there's very few, I should say there's very few people who are very significant,

00:27:07.520 like as lawyers or whatever, who come out publicly in favor.

00:27:10.440 Like of course, Jeff Rath has and Keith Wilson, and they're very, very good.

00:27:13.700 There's no question about it.

00:27:14.640 But Quebec has lots of those kinds of guys.

00:27:17.160 You know what I mean?

00:27:17.940 We don't.

00:27:19.060 So the kind of help they can offer us is, is like an intellectual and legal help because

00:27:23.540 they've been studying the independence issue, you know, going back decades, if not generations.

00:27:28.020 And so they have people with real expertise, historical expertise and different legal expertise

00:27:31.900 more so than we'd have here, just because there is that stigma.

00:27:35.320 And so people won't come out.

00:27:37.100 You know, I know there's, there's people who won't come out publicly, but who support it.

00:27:40.720 Like I've had people tell me, I really support independence, but don't tell anybody.

00:27:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:27:45.000 Because they're afraid for their careers.

00:27:46.860 There are people like that.

00:27:48.060 And so sometimes, you know, people say, well, you know, there's not that much support for

00:27:51.760 separation in Alberta.

00:27:53.220 And, you know, there's a certain degree to which that's true, but it's, it's, I think

00:27:56.120 it's, it doesn't show itself as much as it would have if it was, if we had like a private

00:28:00.400 vote on it, because there's people, like I say, who will support it, but they don't want

00:28:04.260 people to know because of like, say it could have ramifications in their career or their

00:28:08.660 family or something.

00:28:09.840 Whereas in Quebec, there's no stigma like that.

00:28:12.220 Like you can be for separatism and it's no big deal.

00:28:14.200 In fact, sometimes, you know, that's a kind of beneficial in some social circles.

00:28:18.220 Oh yeah.

00:28:18.500 I imagine.

00:28:18.980 Yeah.

00:28:19.120 But, but, but they do have like, they've got a long train of politicians and lawyers and

00:28:23.660 professors with all kinds of knowledge in these areas, which we don't have that.

00:28:27.680 And so if we were to move towards, you know, if we were to move towards negotiations over

00:28:32.540 independence, they would have a degree of expertise we don't have here.

00:28:35.760 And so I do think that that could offer us a real support that way that would be very

00:28:40.400 beneficial.

00:28:40.840 Like if we had a bunch of their lawyers and professors advising our people in the negotiations,

00:28:44.980 that would really strengthen them.

00:28:46.780 And so I do think that they do have that capacity to help us in a way that we could really use if

00:28:51.660 it came to negotiations.

00:28:52.780 Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:54.660 Yeah.

00:28:54.860 You're right.

00:28:55.880 Yeah.

00:28:56.440 It's a, it's a very strong base and yeah, it's not as stigmatized as it is in Alberta.

00:29:04.240 And yeah, I guess like one thing that I, yeah, I guess this, our meeting will be done soon,

00:29:10.600 but just this one last thing that I wanted to mention is sort of like the contentions that

00:29:17.820 Albertans have had with Quebec all these years and it's a lot of it is for good reasons, 1.00

00:29:23.220 right?

00:29:24.860 It's, it's like a very like dire contrast, you know, between like a spoiled, I don't

00:29:30.600 want to say spoiled, but like a much favored child as opposed to, you know, the, I guess

00:29:38.840 the, like the, the teenage, like underage child who's like basically like running, you know,

00:29:45.580 bringing all the bread to the family and whatnot.

00:29:49.420 But it's like, I want to sort of bring this up because, you know, although yes, like equalization

00:29:55.880 is extremely unfair.

00:29:57.060 It's like a massive ripoff in every sense.

00:29:59.420 And yeah, just the fact that we don't have that, you know, our federal government has

00:30:06.720 granted autonomy to Quebec over so many things and that we're not ever like entitled to have

00:30:14.420 never been entitled to and likely will not be entitled to unless we secede from Canada.

00:30:20.220 It's just that like, I just want people to know that there are, you know, especially like

00:30:25.480 the Parti Quebecois, like there are people in Quebec that are very much against like the

00:30:29.580 status quo of how things are operated, right?

00:30:32.780 Like they don't want to be getting handouts from the federal government that have been

00:30:37.220 extracted from other provinces, right?

00:30:39.000 Like they don't want to impose their will like onto other people, right?

00:30:45.120 Onto other nations.

00:30:46.140 They want to be able to basically just have full autonomy like over themselves.

00:30:51.320 And that's, and that's very important and that's exactly what we want here too, right?

00:30:56.060 Or I guess I should say a good portion of what, yeah, people here want to.

00:31:01.400 And so, yeah, I just, so yeah, like if, you know, I just wanted to mention that because

00:31:08.380 yeah, when the news first broke, like a lot of people were like against it.

00:31:12.500 They were like, sort of like conspiring, like, ooh, what's Quebec like?

00:31:16.360 What are they planning?

00:31:17.800 What are they going to be getting out of this?

00:31:19.400 So they're going to fleece Alberta somehow.

00:31:20.880 It's like, no, that's just not, they like, they've recognized that there's like a very

00:31:24.580 strong Sovereignist movement that has like spurred up here in a very short matter of time.

00:31:29.480 And, you know, they, it would help their case to support it and vice versa, right?

00:31:36.740 It would definitely destigmatize the independence movement, right?

00:31:41.380 Um, once we associate more like with sort of, um, yeah, with like the Quebec to be able to

00:31:48.200 draw parallels, right?

00:31:49.600 So to speak with the Quebec Sovereignist movement as it exists today.

00:31:53.520 And, um, yeah, I was watching one of, um, Corey Morgan's recent videos and he mentioned that

00:31:59.380 when he was, um, yeah, when he started the independence party in 2000, that, um, uh, some

00:32:05.960 contacts from the, um, party Quebecois actually, you know, sat down and chatted with them and

00:32:11.980 it was a pretty productive chat.

00:32:13.920 And that was very like interesting to me is like, you know, these people, like we don't

00:32:18.260 have to have this like blood feud and we never have that.

00:32:21.840 It's just, it's very much perceived.

00:32:23.280 Right.

00:32:23.720 And again, it all goes back to Pierre Trudeau and just like his favoritism, you know, towards

00:32:29.660 Quebec that stemmed from, you know, trying to quell like the separatist movement there.

00:32:33.940 That's, that's basically all that's happened.

00:32:37.440 And it's, you know, a main part of it, like, uh, the biggest, like the governing body that

00:32:45.820 should like take the biggest blame for that is Canada, right?

00:32:50.000 Um, over this whole, oh yeah, like I said, blood feud that, um, perceived blood feud that

00:32:55.720 we've had for Quebec.

00:32:56.760 What, um, yeah, like what, what are your thoughts on that?

00:32:58.620 Like when, when the party Quebecois made that announcement and, um, the leader came to Calgary

00:33:03.660 and also the Western standard, I saw him, um, like what, like, did you first, what was

00:33:09.540 your initial reaction and what were people like, I guess, independence minded people around

00:33:13.700 you?

00:33:14.080 Um, how did they perceive it?

00:33:15.700 Well, like, I think, like, I certainly perceived a positive and I haven't seen anybody else,

00:33:21.760 um, perceive it negatively per se, because with Plamondon, the leader, the PQ coming out

00:33:27.420 here and reaching out, like, I think he had a long meeting with the leaders of the Alberta

00:33:31.280 Prosperity Project.

00:33:32.460 That's a good thing.

00:33:33.400 And I think everybody recognizes that as a good thing, because one of the things the opponents

00:33:37.860 of independence do in Alberta, they try to downplay and say, well, there's just a small

00:33:41.640 rabble.

00:33:42.100 Nobody cares.

00:33:42.720 It's just a bunch of weirdos and stuff, but when the leader of a political party from

00:33:46.140 Quebec, who's likely going to be premier soon or within a couple of years or whatever,

00:33:50.300 when he comes and meets with those people, it gives credibility to the movement.

00:33:53.400 And that's the problem.

00:33:54.520 That's part of the stigma problem we've had a long, like nobody wants to be identified

00:33:57.500 publicly with separatism because our opponents try and reduce our credibility and say, there's

00:34:02.620 no credibility to this.

00:34:03.900 Right.

00:34:04.380 But when they come out, when, when someone like Plamondon comes out and meets with our people,

00:34:07.800 that gives us credibility.

00:34:09.180 And when he talks to the Western standard about these issues, it gives credibility.

00:34:12.480 It's like the Alberta independence movement isn't just a small group of guys in Alberta

00:34:16.560 and nobody cares.

00:34:17.700 No, no, this is something with national significance.

00:34:19.580 And there's people in Quebec in the, you know, in the legislature of Quebec who pay attention

00:34:23.780 to this and take it seriously.

00:34:25.260 And they want to meet with our leaders and they want to talk to them and they want to

00:34:28.500 coordinate with them.

00:34:29.440 That gives our people a lot more credibility than they had before.

00:34:32.980 Like the media cannot downplay that.

00:34:34.560 The media can't say, you know, this is just happening in the corner.

00:34:36.760 Nobody cares.

00:34:37.200 This is national news and it builds up the credibility of our movement and makes it so

00:34:42.360 that people can put more confidence in our leaders because they are, they are being taken

00:34:46.860 seriously in, in other parts of Canada.

00:34:49.700 And so the, our opponents here cannot pretend that that's not happening.

00:34:53.500 They can't pretend that we're a small group that nobody cares about.

00:34:56.060 Like, no, we're getting national news coverage now.

00:34:58.420 And so it gives us credibility.

00:34:59.560 And I think that's a very positive thing.

00:35:01.120 And I think it was a very positive thing for, uh, come on and to come out here.

00:35:04.520 Like, uh, it's good that he reached out like that.

00:35:06.280 And it, it helps us very much that he did that.

00:35:08.880 And I think it helps him in the sense that, you know, it, it shows to people in other parts

00:35:13.320 of Canada, it's not just Quebecers who are concerned about the federal government and

00:35:16.740 what the federal government's been doing.

00:35:17.900 Like there's a people in other parts of Canada, especially Alberta in this instance, who are also

00:35:22.260 concerned about the federal government overreach.

00:35:23.800 Like that's one thing we can agree with, with Quebec, that the federal government is grabbing

00:35:27.380 too much power.

00:35:28.980 And actually that's one of the benefits of having Quebec in Canada for all these years.

00:35:32.800 Um, Quebec more than any other province fought against federal government expansion.

00:35:38.060 And so if Quebec hadn't been there, the federal government would be bigger and more powerful

00:35:42.100 if Quebec hadn't been fighting them all these years.

00:35:44.440 Uh, and so it's, there's, Canada has benefited and Alberta to some degree has benefited from

00:35:49.020 the fact that the federal government cannot go beyond a certain point without, you know,

00:35:53.740 rousing Quebec and Quebec fighting back.

00:35:55.760 So, so like the, there's no reason for Alberta and Quebec to be at odds, like as provinces,

00:36:00.320 like they, they are getting our money and that's, that's kind of something that Albertans are,

00:36:04.820 you know, offended by, but overall they're fighting in the federal government as we're

00:36:08.560 fighting the federal government.

00:36:09.460 And so there is a way we can work together, uh, that would benefit both of us.

00:36:13.640 It would benefit them and it benefits us.

00:36:14.980 And so we, we, we both, uh, will, will benefit from this relationship.

00:36:18.460 And so it's a very positive thing what Plamondon has done in reaching out to us that way.

00:36:23.700 Absolutely.

00:36:24.320 Yeah.

00:36:24.680 Um, yeah, that's a great point you just made.

00:36:26.440 And I haven't thought about it in that sense that, yeah, like a lot of the, um, I guess,

00:36:32.960 you know, federal overreach has been scaled back, right.

00:36:36.000 Because of Quebec, because they just can't penetrate that far enough. 1.00

00:36:40.360 Right.

00:36:40.600 And like, when we say, you know, Quebec has a lot of, um, autonomy, like these aren't

00:36:45.120 things that happen overnight.

00:36:46.460 Like there are, they've spent literal centuries, right.

00:36:49.780 Like fighting for these things.

00:36:51.300 And so, yeah, it's very important.

00:36:53.340 Like, um, yeah, like they've been fighting the good fight, so to speak for a very long

00:36:57.580 time.

00:36:57.960 And so, yeah, like it's just like what you said.

00:37:01.480 Um, and yeah, uh, yeah, I think it's, it's just very good.

00:37:06.000 Like exactly what you said about credibility.

00:37:07.960 I know, um, and independence, especially like Alberta independence recently has gotten

00:37:13.440 like coverage from, you know, by like, from like American outlets, even from the BBC I

00:37:19.460 saw.

00:37:20.200 Um, so yeah, that's very positive and yeah, like a sort of, well, I don't know a coalition,

00:37:25.900 but like a collaboration of this caliber really like not really, you know, makes people in

00:37:32.980 Canada, like that are not just, not just like politicians in Ottawa, but Canadians that

00:37:39.660 are, um, opposed to this movement, like really feel the heat and really like sort of like

00:37:45.880 reflect on, yeah.

00:37:47.420 Okay.

00:37:47.700 Like, you know, confederation as it is to now, as it is right now is so like utterly broken

00:37:53.460 that, you know, I think if we consider Saskatchewan, I don't know if Newfoundland's been very,

00:37:59.180 um, if they've, if their independence movement has been very engaged recently, but, you know,

00:38:04.600 there, there are provinces that want to break away and that really says something, right?

00:38:09.820 That really, that, um, you know, that there are portions of this country that feel like

00:38:14.420 they would be way better off, right?

00:38:15.960 Whether it's culturally or economically or for whatever reason, um, if they were, you know,

00:38:22.360 a separate nation, right?

00:38:24.040 Distinct from Canada.

00:38:25.680 Yeah.

00:38:25.860 As I was saying, um, yeah, Quebec's sort of been, uh, fighting a lot, you know, for

00:38:30.740 the autonomy that they've been granted, right?

00:38:32.700 All these years, you know, centuries, right?

00:38:36.040 That, you know, they've been fighting for their, um, you know, distinction as a people

00:38:42.260 and like also as like a nation state, even like within Canada, so to speak, right?

00:38:47.200 A lot of Quebec federalists, um, that's like their view of what Quebec's position in Canada

00:38:53.740 should be, but, um, yeah.

00:38:56.420 And I think it's very important, right?

00:38:58.220 Like, just like what you said, um, the, um, coverage that this movement has been getting,

00:39:04.120 like as a result of, um, you know, being recognized, um, you know, by, you know, the party

00:39:10.340 Quebecois and like the sort of prestige that they've had and sort of being able to have this

00:39:16.440 like extremely like well-organized, um, independence movement, or I guess it didn't start with them

00:39:21.920 obviously, but like carry it forward and like spearhead it.

00:39:25.680 Um, right.

00:39:26.880 And like, they've been at a very long time, whereas the Alberta Prosperity Project has

00:39:32.920 only, um, I think they started in 2021, I believe.

00:39:37.140 And somewhere on there.

00:39:38.920 Yeah.

00:39:39.120 And so it's, it's very important to have them on our side and, you know, just like you

00:39:43.340 said, like the amount of credibility it brings.

00:39:45.240 And also I think it's very important, like when you have, um, you know, two, um, like

00:39:52.300 two sort of provinces that with, um, you know, very large populations that wish to secede from

00:39:58.900 Canada, it really, uh, like speaks to the sort of, um, like the state of Confederation as

00:40:08.520 it stands right now.

00:40:09.600 And another good thing about it is that it, you know, it makes, it brings the heat onto

00:40:14.800 Ottawa, but not just Ottawa, but Canadians, you know, whether who are within or outside

00:40:22.100 of those provinces who are against, um, sovereignty of those provinces.

00:40:27.180 And it really, um, makes them feel the heat as well, where, um, they would also like sort

00:40:35.360 of like start to question, um, you know, like how, uh, effectively, um, like, like federalism

00:40:42.820 like has been acting like, and like the results that it's made.

00:40:48.440 And, you know, clearly that last 10 years of Trudeau wasn't enough, um, right.

00:40:55.100 The, the apathy still persists, um, which is crazy, but this, like these sorts of, um,

00:41:02.000 these independence movements, you know, in Quebec and Alberta, they like very much should

00:41:08.720 be like a wake up call.

00:41:09.880 And are extremely beneficial to Canada to sort of, as like a point of looking back and just

00:41:19.800 trying to course correct and, you know, seeing where Canada should go.

00:41:25.720 And, you know, the last say, yeah, the last 40 years have been so like tumultuous and disastrous.

00:41:32.320 But, um, yeah, I was just wanting to, uh, hear your thoughts on that and, um, to like

00:41:38.920 any closing, uh, remarks that you wanted to make.

00:41:42.840 Actually.

00:41:43.340 Yeah.

00:41:43.500 Like, like what you're saying is true.

00:41:45.000 Like it should cause other Canadians to reevaluate the direction of the country.

00:41:49.240 And why would a country that, you know, decades ago was reasonably successful is now seeming

00:41:54.160 to fall apart in the sense that people in various, various want out.

00:41:57.760 People should, you know, really think about that.

00:41:59.700 Like what's, what's the, why did, what caused that?

00:42:02.320 And of course we know it's the liberal party Canada for the most part, but, but aside from

00:42:05.620 that, there was, there's one major point I wanted to make at the end.

00:42:08.280 And that was that, um, like going back to 2022, when, when Danielle Smith first proposed the

00:42:13.760 Alberta sovereignty act, there was a political scientist in Calgary who said, Oh, this is

00:42:18.620 going to scare away jobs and scare away investment because in 1976, the party Quebecois was elected

00:42:24.720 in Quebec.

00:42:25.140 And within a few years, there was a mass exodus of people and businesses from Quebec.

00:42:29.540 And the, the, the political scientist was blaming that on the election of a separatist

00:42:33.500 government.

00:42:33.840 And that same argument has risen again with Tom Lukasik saying the same thing basically

00:42:38.420 now that the independence movement is scaring away, um, people and investment.

00:42:43.800 But this is, this is a false argument.

00:42:45.800 And here's why when the Quebec party, Quebec was elected in 1976, they brought in, uh, uh,

00:42:51.940 one of the first bills was bill 101, which was making French, uh, compulsory in certain

00:42:57.440 areas of Quebec society.

00:42:58.800 So in certain areas of business and education, uh, French was going to be compulsory.

00:43:03.360 And that is what led to businesses and people leaving Quebec, not the fact that a separatist

00:43:09.000 government was elected, but the fact that that government was using law to force people to use

00:43:14.080 French in areas where they hadn't before.

00:43:16.160 And so it was mostly English speaking people and other non-French speaking people who left.

00:43:20.720 And so Montreal in 1970 was the most populous city in Canada by 1980, 10 years later, Toronto

00:43:27.540 was the most populous city in Canada.

00:43:29.040 And that's because, that was because so many people left Montreal and moved to Toronto, not

00:43:33.960 because the party Quebec was elected, but because they were forcing people to use French and other

00:43:38.760 cases.

00:43:39.140 And so, uh, you know, it's, it's true that after the party Quebec was elected that several

00:43:42.760 people, you know, thousands of people left Quebec, but it wasn't because of a separatist

00:43:46.260 agenda.

00:43:46.580 It was because of them being forced to use French.

00:43:49.120 And so our movement out here isn't forcing anybody to do anything.

00:43:52.600 So it's a false analogy to say that the strength of our separatist movement here is going to

00:43:57.460 lead to people and businesses leaving because, uh, it's not at all like Quebec situation and

00:44:02.320 people are mischaracterizing that as a way of, you know, um, criticizing our movement or

00:44:06.960 trying to downplay our movement.

00:44:08.020 And so I just wanted to make that very clear that people realize, you know, it is true that

00:44:12.220 people left Quebec after the party Quebec was elected, but it wasn't because of that.

00:44:15.540 It was because they were being forced to use French.

00:44:17.400 And so I just want to make sure that people are clear on that point.

00:44:20.440 Absolutely.

00:44:21.040 Yeah.

00:44:21.280 You're, you're 100% right.

00:44:23.420 Um, yeah.

00:44:24.480 You know, uh, an independent Alberta, you know, from everyone I've talked to and like a lot

00:44:29.300 of the figureheads at APP, right.

00:44:31.020 They, they want to make sure that, um, it's as business friendly as possible.

00:44:36.880 Right.

00:44:37.360 You know, far more than Canada is right now.

00:44:40.340 And yeah, like, you know, businesses in Canada that are, you know, headquartered like outside

00:44:44.840 of Alberta would, you know, ideally see like a much better business case for them to be 0.51

00:44:49.940 operating in Alberta than they do in, um, Canada right now.

00:44:52.780 So, and what's funny is what you mentioned about, you know, Thomas Lukasik and, um, sort

00:44:58.020 of, um, stating that, and I think Nenshi made that point too.

00:45:01.420 He, he made the point of Montreal, you know, it was, it was the, uh, he called, he said it

00:45:06.560 was the, um, financial capital of Canada, but ever since the threat of separation, you

00:45:12.040 know, it's like, it's a fallacy basically.

00:45:14.520 It's, uh, it's like a causation versus correlation kind of, um, situation that they've, uh, pondered

00:45:20.720 up and are trying to, uh, push onto people.

00:45:23.160 Um, well, with little success, of course, um, Thomas Lukasik's position, uh, petition isn't

00:45:28.640 really, really going anywhere.

00:45:30.380 And it's a lot of people have, um, they've mused that, uh, like, it may be like a sort

00:45:36.240 of like a, sort of like getting like email lists of people so that they can have, they

00:45:42.100 can just sort of like mass, uh, like mass male people, um, for like leftist causes and

00:45:49.880 whatnot.

00:45:50.480 Um, it's a sort of like, yeah, it's, it's like a sort of Trojan horse and that I don't

00:45:55.000 want to conspire here or anything, but there is precedent for it.

00:45:58.560 Right.

00:45:59.160 Um, you know, some, a lot of, uh, I guess because, um, progressives in Alberta feel very much

00:46:05.760 cornered in like a majority conservative, um, uh, province.

00:46:11.760 They, they resort to doing things that are very like conniving sometimes, but I want to

00:46:18.500 mention like what you said about, uh, you know, the, the separatist party coming into

00:46:23.800 power and, uh, how that, uh, you know, in, um, in, in their statements, uh, sort of, uh,

00:46:30.980 made Montreal, uh, you know, made them not be very like desirable for, uh, businesses and

00:46:38.460 whatnot.

00:46:38.980 What's interesting about that is in 2015, um, when the NDP got elected, uh, energy stocks

00:46:45.080 on the TSX, like took a massive dip, like as a result of that.

00:46:49.640 And so like really in Alberta, it's like the, the, the provincial government that like is

00:46:57.840 like the, who's the biggest federalist chill essentially is what's like causing us like

00:47:03.760 economic demise.

00:47:04.900 Well, it wasn't demise.

00:47:05.980 Right.

00:47:06.360 But yeah, it was, it made the business case in Alberta much poorer.

00:47:10.740 Right.

00:47:11.340 Once, uh, the NDPs got in, although, you know, it could be said that it was like, uh, it was

00:47:16.500 in some, uh, lens, you could view it as a good thing because had it not been for the NDP coming

00:47:22.280 in that term, um, you know, the conservative, the PCs would have, you know, sort of just continued,

00:47:28.420 uh, like they're sort of, uh, you know, incompetence and sort of like smooth sailing.

00:47:34.080 Right.

00:47:34.720 Uh, in Alberta politics.

00:47:36.900 Um, but yeah, but you know, the UCP happened and now we have a force that's very, very strong.

00:47:44.300 Right.

00:47:44.660 You know, it has its, um, it has its, uh, I guess negatives of course, like a lot of people

00:47:51.440 in Daniel Smith's cohort are kind of like peculiar, like the whole thing that happened about, um,

00:47:57.540 the receipts over expenses over a hundred dollars not being reported, like, which was put into

00:48:03.360 action by the UCP and, you know, Smith came out and said, you know, I was out, like, uh,

00:48:08.340 she was either on vacation or just like not, um, at the legislature, like she wasn't, um,

00:48:14.240 around her, uh, party people and whatnot.

00:48:17.360 Um, that like, well, and that's when that, um, law was proposed or like, I guess came into

00:48:23.680 effect.

00:48:24.220 Well, and that kind of speaks to like, well, okay, like if Smith kind of goes out of province

00:48:29.240 for a little bit.

00:48:30.100 Right.

00:48:30.580 And like, like, why does everyone just run to the cookie jar?

00:48:33.920 Like, it's very much just like her cold, like I'm not really much, like I'm not, uh, I'm

00:48:41.560 not very in favor of like strong arming politics where a lot of like dog Ford does this a lot

00:48:47.500 in Ontario where like, if you like run against, like if you try to run against him, you know,

00:48:51.900 as like a leader of the PCs, like he will just, you know, fire you as an MP and he'll, you

00:48:57.120 know, designate someone else for your writing and whatnot.

00:49:00.420 And Smith is adverse to doing something like that, which is great.

00:49:04.560 But yeah, like, I think everything is sort of been like set in motion right now.

00:49:10.500 And, you know, the combination of everything that we've been talking about comes down to,

00:49:16.060 um, how the federal government behaves itself.

00:49:19.040 Right.

00:49:19.320 Like you said at the very beginning.

00:49:21.840 And so, you know, I, the way I see it, it's like, we, we weren't even like not a single

00:49:29.600 project in Alberta was even designated as being, um, projects of national interest.

00:49:34.180 Right.

00:49:34.440 Which is crazy, especially like it's as if they're laughing at her face.

00:49:38.160 Right.

00:49:38.920 Especially in the face of all the separatist sentiment and like how much it's risen, you

00:49:43.420 know, in such a short matter of time.

00:49:45.360 Um, but, um, yeah, um, I think, yeah, that concludes it.

00:49:50.480 Um, thank you so much for coming on.

00:49:52.780 Um, yeah, I'd love to have you on again.

00:49:54.840 Um, either just for, I, I do plan on, um, sort of diving deeper into Alberta's history.

00:50:02.020 Um, your books do cover some bits and pieces of that.

00:50:06.300 Um, very, very well.

00:50:08.360 Um, and I also do want to check out some of the texts that you mentioned, um, in the, I

00:50:15.240 know, first, uh, interview that we had.

00:50:18.600 Um, and so, yeah, uh, yeah, I'd like to hopefully in the future, have you on and like, and like

00:50:24.360 sort of have you discuss, uh, like the history of Alberta, right.

00:50:28.160 Um, all the way, you know, from the very onset of it and as someone, and that's like your forte,

00:50:34.700 right.

00:50:35.020 That's your main area of expertise, which is great.

00:50:38.380 And so, yeah, this one was like a little bit, uh, I guess it was like a little bit uncharted

00:50:45.220 territory, especially for me.

00:50:47.100 Yeah.

00:50:47.600 I don't, you know, because I, I've also, um, I have to admit, I don't, uh, I've always had

00:50:54.600 a disdain for Quebec, like because of, but this, this move from the party Quebecois really

00:51:00.860 put things into perspective for me and really, um, sort of, yeah, like sort of like, um, made

00:51:06.520 me respect that, like the fact, you know, that Quebec has been fighting so long and

00:51:11.820 hard for the autonomy that they have been granted.

00:51:14.500 And yeah, like exactly, like you said, had it not been for them, um, federal overreach

00:51:19.780 would have been far more brazen and, uh, penetrative, but yeah, um, anything else you want to say

00:51:24.940 or if you want to plug anything or just say goodbyes or.

00:51:30.360 Well, can I, can I plug my book?

00:51:32.160 Yes.

00:51:32.180 Yes.

00:51:33.420 Hey, there's a, there's a, a business based in Didsbury.

00:51:36.340 A small business where my books are available.

00:51:38.480 It's called Merchantship.

00:51:39.700 And so the website is just merchantship.ca.

00:51:42.940 And so my three books on Alberta independence are there as well as some other books that

00:51:46.380 I've written.

00:51:47.000 So if anybody's interested, just go to merchantship.ca and search my name.

00:51:50.160 I mean, it's a homeschooling business, so they sell lots of materials, but if you search

00:51:53.480 my name, uh, my books will come up and the books on independence will be there.

00:51:56.800 So thank you for letting me do that plug.

00:51:58.740 Yeah, of course.

00:51:59.320 Yeah.

00:51:59.500 Anytime.

00:52:00.540 Yeah.

00:52:00.940 Awesome.

00:52:01.300 Thank you so much for coming on and, uh, yeah, I'll definitely have you on again in the

00:52:05.120 future.

00:52:06.340 Thanks for having me.

00:52:07.180 It's good to be here.

00:52:07.960 Yeah, of course.

The Alberta Project - September 28, 2025

Michael Wagner on Parti Quebecois recognition of Alberta Independence

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