The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - The Inside Story on Pierre Poilievre

00:00:01.000 Rachel Emanuel brings the news each day. On Alberta Roundup, she has her say.

00:00:11.020 Hey everyone, welcome back to the Alberta Roundup. I'm your host, Rachel Emanuel.

00:00:14.900 Today, I am joined by fan favorite and colleague, Andrew Lawton, to discuss his new book,

00:00:20.060 Pierre Polyev, A Political Life. Andrew, welcome back to the show.

00:00:23.800 Hey, good to be with you. Thanks for having me on.

00:00:25.560 So I'm so impressed that you, how quickly you pump out these books. I think all of us are just

00:00:30.080 amazed at the amount of work you get done. I'm surprised you have any time for vacation between

00:00:34.480 all the things you're busy doing, but I know this will be a good read. So it's my understanding.

00:00:38.320 This is the first biography on Pierre Polyev. Did that surprise you that no one had rushed to write

00:00:43.720 this topic before you got to it? No, because I rushed to write it before anyone else could.

00:00:48.940 That was kind of my attitude on it. So I had had the idea really not long after he became the

00:00:55.740 leader, but it wasn't until the fall of this year. So that was basically a year after that he,

00:01:03.660 a year after he'd become the leader that I really started working on it more, kind of more formally.

00:01:09.900 And I was nervous at that time that someone else would be writing it. And I was calling up all these

00:01:14.620 people that I thought would be good to talk about for a sources. And I'm like, Hey, you know, by the

00:01:20.340 way, has anyone else reached out to you with a similar request? And I was kind of holding my cards

00:01:24.820 close to my chest. So hoping that like no one else would say, Oh, hang on. That's a great idea. I can

00:01:28.620 do it quicker. So in that sense, I I'm not surprised surprised, but I think it was inevitable that someone

00:01:35.100 was going to, and I I'm honored that that gets to be me. So when you talk about making calls to

00:01:40.380 discuss with sources, you know, topics for the, for the book, what kind of access did you actually

00:01:44.860 have, you know, for readers who haven't maybe done this type of project for the before for

00:01:48.040 themselves and myself, I've never written a book before. I'm just curious, you know,

00:01:50.760 were Polyev's people willing to speak with you about all things related to Pierre Polyev?

00:01:55.980 It depends. So the one thing I I'm very candid about a candid about is that Polyev himself did not

00:02:01.520 agree to an interview for the book. I mean, he was obviously the, you know, the one interview that I

00:02:05.640 would have loved to have gotten, because then you could ask him about everything that everyone else has told

00:02:09.800 you about him and really get a sense beyond what I'm able to get when I do like a 12 minute interview

00:02:15.540 with him for my show. He, for whatever reason, didn't agree to an interview. But I was grateful

00:02:20.300 that a lot of people around him did speak his closest advisor and former romantic partner Jenny

00:02:26.240 Byrne spoke on the record, as did a number of his current and former colleagues in caucus staffers,

00:02:32.240 friends, a couple of family members. And some of them were very candid on the record. Others were more

00:02:39.160 glowing and in their praise just because of it. And then there were people that also said things

00:02:44.000 on background that were quite critical in a way. So I've tried to capture what I think is a pretty

00:02:49.440 holistic view of who this guy is, which I think is pretty significant. I mean, polling is showing

00:02:55.420 everyone is looking at it, that this guy is likely to be the next prime minister, whether you like him

00:03:00.240 or not, understanding who he is, where he's come from, I think is crucially important.

00:03:05.140 Obviously, you've mentioned there were some people who were willing to be critical on background

00:03:09.080 because Polyev is obviously still the leader in anyone who wants involvement in conservative

00:03:13.180 politics, especially federal conservative politics. They're going to be pretty wary of

00:03:17.180 pissing him off and pissing people around him off. So were you at any point concerned that maybe

00:03:21.260 people weren't exactly giving you the full truth or were too admirable or giving you too glossy

00:03:25.260 of a picture because they still want to please leader in hope of having a job

00:03:29.000 with the conservative party.

00:03:59.000 I wouldn't say I was worried about it. It's always a risk. And the one thing that I found

00:04:06.520 quite interesting is that there was a lot of that, but that in and of itself is also revealing of

00:04:11.580 something else, which is that there's a tremendous amount of loyalty that Polyev has cultivated from

00:04:16.640 a lot of the people around him. Now, is that loyalty because people really like him and value him and

00:04:21.440 respect him? Is it loyalty because they all want an appointment in his government? I don't know.

00:04:25.600 I think it's probably more the former than the latter. But the one thing I will say in terms of

00:04:31.640 my own process is that when I first started out interviewing people, I really wanted as many on

00:04:38.300 the record interviews as possible. I wanted to be able to say I spoke to this person, this person,

00:04:42.600 this person, this person. And after a few weeks of that, I realized, well, hang on, that I'd actually

00:04:48.020 rather have information regardless of whether it's on the record. And then I can then take that

00:04:53.220 information and go and verify it and ask around. Because what would happen is you'd get a little

00:04:57.780 glimpse of something from someone. And then you'd mention that to someone else. And they'd,

00:05:03.460 oh, I remember that. And they'd tell you more about it. And then you take what they could do

00:05:06.840 back to the first. And it was actually really interesting because in some cases, I was writing

00:05:10.960 about things that have gone back well over 20 years. And memories can be very fickle things. So

00:05:17.500 it was actually helpful sometimes to just not be on the record with someone, to let them be candid,

00:05:22.260 and then use that as sort of the baseline that I could do further research with.

00:05:26.860 So obviously, we're speaking specifically to an Alberta audience here. Pierre Polyev is from

00:05:31.380 Calgary. Do you think that my audience, after reading your book, are going to have, you know,

00:05:35.160 a newfound appreciation for Polyev being from the West and feeling like he's really, really one of us?

00:05:40.620 So I made, because I'm interested in it, but I also think it's relevant. I really went out of my way

00:05:46.040 to talk about the Alberta roots that Polyev has, because those have been tremendously influential,

00:05:51.120 not just to his own politics and life, but to, I'd say, the development of the conservative

00:05:55.820 movement. I mean, this is a guy who one of his first entries into politics was being on

00:06:00.300 Preston Manning's riding board in Calgary Southwest. One of his first opportunities

00:06:04.540 volunteering was phone banking for Jason Kenney back when he was running for the reform in 1997.

00:06:10.760 So again, going back, you know, almost 30 years now. And I think that that has been really

00:06:16.520 interesting because the modern conservative party has far more in common with the 1990s reform party

00:06:23.380 than it does with the, you know, the Kim Campbell progressive conservative party. And a big part of

00:06:28.080 that has been because Polyev has really been along for that evolution. So I think Albertans will,

00:06:33.900 a lot of Albertans still see him as an Easterner, like he's an Ottawa MP, but I think there's a lot of

00:06:39.240 the Alberta roots that people might not understand that I hope I shine a light on in the book.

00:06:43.520 So I did speak with someone who's already read the book. They got their hands on an early copy

00:06:47.720 and they said a sentiment they were left with after reading it is that Pierre Polyev is really

00:06:51.780 someone who wanted to be prime minister from an early age and has worked towards this for a long

00:06:55.940 time. Would you agree with that sentiment? I'm glad the sentiment they left you with was not,

00:07:00.580 I want my money back. That's quite, quite encouraging. I think so. But there's a difference between someone

00:07:06.640 who has entertained that idea and someone who has spent their life making sure that every single

00:07:13.540 thing they do is working towards that goal. And I'm not sure he falls into that latter category.

00:07:20.360 He's definitely thought about it. I mean, I've spoken to people that have said they've had

00:07:23.720 conversations with him going back to when he was running for an MP to be MP for the first time in

00:07:28.580 2004. And he talks about at some point in the future being finance minister or prime minister. So

00:07:33.600 he's clearly entertained this and he's also a calculating guy, but I don't think that his

00:07:39.140 journey has been necessarily inauthentic as a result of that. I think a lot of what's happened

00:07:44.540 has really been opportunity. I mean, who could have predicted the pandemic 20 years ago? Who could

00:07:49.980 have predicted the shift even within the last 10 years of the conservative party going through

00:07:55.260 the trajectory that it has post Stephen Harper? So I think in that sense, there has been a moment

00:08:00.960 that he has seized, but he's also created moments as well.

00:08:05.060 So you think for people reading this book, once they're finished, they're going to be left with

00:08:08.600 a positive impression of Polyev? I don't know. I don't know that that's true. I think that

00:08:14.220 they'll be left with an understanding and that understanding, I hope, deepens the perspective

00:08:20.540 because the problem in politics is that it's easy to two-dimensionalize your political leaders,

00:08:26.380 whether you like them or dislike them. I mean, certainly it's easy to come up with these

00:08:30.200 thin, shallow caricatures of people you don't like, but even people you support, you can say,

00:08:35.620 oh yeah, I agree with what he or she says on X and you don't really know much else about them.

00:08:40.240 I want to just get a sense of who he is. And I think there's something in the book for everyone.

00:08:45.220 I think people that don't like him will probably not like it because I'm not just attacking him on

00:08:50.820 every page, but I think they'll learn something. I think people who like him will perhaps appreciate

00:08:55.840 it more. And I think people who are on the fence could come away with either perspective,

00:09:00.560 but I'm not trying to persuade anyone or sell anyone on him.

00:09:04.580 What's one of your favorite anecdotes from the book?

00:09:07.800 Well, if I told you that people wouldn't be able to, wouldn't have to buy the book.

00:09:12.060 Okay. There's a funny story about him pranking the vice president of Taiwan

00:09:16.480 in the book, but you have to buy the book to find out what the prank is. And I just in general,

00:09:22.000 there was a little bit that I didn't really see, or I don't see in him that I learned talking to

00:09:28.520 people, which is his sense of humor. He actually quite likes practical jokes and has played them

00:09:33.500 on his staff. Some of which have actually been a little bit tawdry. So that was an interesting

00:09:38.560 thing that I learned, which isn't again, crucially important, but it's helpful in just finding a sense of

00:09:44.820 his character that you don't see at a press conference or in his videos or on social media.

00:09:50.000 Yeah. I absolutely wouldn't have expected him to be the practical joke type.

00:09:54.560 Okay. Yeah, but, but he did it. And there's some of them involved like foreign accents. So

00:09:58.280 not sure if CBC will like that tidbit. We'll see.

00:10:01.260 I can already see the headlines. So your book is released next week, May 28th. Andrew,

00:10:06.920 where can people find it? Anywhere and everywhere books are sold is the hope. You can get it on

00:10:11.800 Amazon Indigo after blacklisting. My book about the convoy has put this one out on the shelves

00:10:17.100 or is going to independent bookstores. And also the publisher directly has it for sale online.

00:10:22.920 And that is Sutherland house, but you can get it wherever is convenient for you.

00:10:26.880 Andrew, thanks so much for joining us today. I look forward to reading it.

00:10:29.800 Thank you, Rachel.

00:10:30.960 All right, everyone have a great week. I'll see you guys on Saturday. God bless.

00:10:41.800 Thank you.

The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - May 22, 2024

The Inside Story on Pierre Poilievre

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