The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - ‘This is not justice’ — member of Coutts 3 responds

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, welcome back to the Alberta Roundup. I'm your host Rachel Emanuel. Today

00:00:16.080 I am joined by one of the Coots three. Alex Van Herc last week Wednesday was found guilty

00:00:21.960 of mischief over $5,000 for his role in the Coots border blockade. He joins us now. Nice

00:00:28.100 to see you, Alex. Good afternoon. Nice to meet you, Rachel, and happy to be on here with

00:00:35.200 you. So as I mentioned, this case has been ongoing for a while. We got the results of

00:00:39.940 that. A jury of peers down in a Lethbridge court found you and your two other colleagues

00:00:45.080 guilty for your involvement in the Coots border blockade. Just wondering, you know, right

00:00:48.920 now, how are you feeling? So I guess to some degree, quite shocked, I guess. I mean, to

00:00:57.400 some degree, I guess we knew kind of what was coming for the fact of what happened. I mean,

00:01:01.780 if you look at the charge itself of the mischief charge, it's pretty broad. So anybody that

00:01:07.220 was with that, they could have picked out of there in that lineup would have been found

00:01:11.120 guilty. So 20,000 people participated in Coots blockade and in Coots protest. So I had to have

00:01:20.880 picked anyone there looking at how the judge had laid out his charges to the jury, they would have

00:01:27.740 found anyone guilty of that. You know, so it's pretty tough to fight a mischief charge, which is

00:01:35.120 actually a scary thought because that gives them pretty wide openness. They can charge anybody and

00:01:41.200 find them guilty under mischief under that section 430. So you and the other gentleman, you now face up to

00:01:47.840 10 years in prison for this charge. That sentencing hasn't come. It's expected later this summer.

00:01:53.220 Do you know when you guys might receive that sentencing?

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00:02:26.900 So our, what they call pre-trial sentencing is in July 22nd, and then I'm not 100% certain how that

00:02:34.380 works, but I believe that's when they kind of discuss what we can, who we are, what our businesses

00:02:40.840 are to give the forward, the information to the judge. And then I believe they're looking

00:02:47.380 at sentencing somewhere in September. And according to our lawyers, yeah, he says it could go anywhere

00:02:57.080 from six months up to 10 years. And yeah, we, the scary part is they want to make an example

00:03:03.840 of us. And there's a lot of things that kind of lead me to thinking that it could be worse

00:03:08.740 than better, is the fact that we had applied, put an application in, in our pre-trial application

00:03:15.740 for the judge to notify the jury of what they call a verdict nullification. And it hasn't

00:03:26.080 been used too often. I believe the last time it was used in Canada was in 1982 with Dr.

00:03:31.980 Morgenthaler. And even though I don't really agree with what the use of it was for there

00:03:37.860 was he was doing abortions and they found him guilty of, of, of murder, but because of

00:03:45.480 what he was doing, they overruled it and found them not guilty. And it dates back actually

00:03:51.640 to, I believe, 1860. It was used in England. A pastor there was, was given a sermon. And

00:04:00.240 at that time the king had allowed only five, uh, congregants to be, uh, under that pastor.

00:04:06.120 And he had like a full house and they found them guilty of the king's order. But the people,

00:04:13.080 the jury said it was a, it was wrong what he did, but for the righteous reasons, they overruled

00:04:20.080 it. And then the king actually locked up the jurors for three days without food and water

00:04:24.320 and tell that whole city, I'm trying to remember the name of the city it was, but where they overruled

00:04:30.040 it. And that's where that actually law came into play. So we had hoped that our judge would have

00:04:35.440 allowed that, especially in our case, because we weren't there for ourselves. We weren't there

00:04:41.920 for a group of people. We were there for all Albertans and all Canadians fighting a tyrannical

00:04:48.640 government as to, and tyrannical mandates that were in place to be freed from it. So we were hoping

00:04:57.040 that, you know, he would look at that and give that opportunity, but it didn't happen.

00:05:01.940 So when you actually talk about why you were there, your words echo that of your lawyer,

00:05:05.180 your lawyer, Michael Johnston, he said that you essentially were there out of a, you know,

00:05:09.960 you wanted to protect those with whom you share a similar political ideology. And in a Globe and

00:05:14.960 Mail report, they actually said that your name specifically quote, rarely showed up in RCMP's notes.

00:05:20.960 So given that, especially that latter note, that your name wasn't really found too often in RCMP

00:05:25.760 notes when they were prosecuting this case, do you think that you will receive a lesser sentence

00:05:30.540 than the others that are being prosecuted? Or do you think that you will all receive the same sentence?

00:05:36.540 I'm hoping, I guess, that I would get a lesser sentence, but looking at it as my involvement in

00:05:42.500 there, I mean, I was there, I participated alongside the other ones, and they still found us guilty pretty

00:05:48.200 quick. The decision when they gave the verdict on each one of us was just as fast on all three of us.

00:05:57.160 And a matter of fact, when my guilty verdict came in, my lawyer, Michael Johnston, asked that the jury

00:06:03.600 be pulled, which I've never seen before, but they individually asked every juror what their verdict

00:06:10.520 was, and each one of them was pretty quick to respond guilty. So I'm not sure how to judge whether

00:06:15.840 he's going to look at my involvement in it, or just of the fact of the guilty verdict.

00:06:21.720 So as my audience likely knows by now, I had the chance to interview Alberta Premier Daniel Smith

00:06:25.960 last weekend. That exclusive interview aired on Saturday, and I was able to ask her to respond to

00:06:31.140 this guilty verdict, and I asked her whether or not she was surprised. She said that there is never a

00:06:36.020 reason to block critical infrastructure, including political ideology. We're going to play that clip

00:06:40.060 for my audience now. Taking a look at the COOTS three, I know you said this is separate from my

00:06:46.040 branch of government, the judicial branch is separate, and you don't want to make too many

00:06:48.400 comments on that. I'm going to respect that. However, just one question on it. The jury made

00:06:52.280 their decision. It was a guilty verdict on Tuesday night. We obviously are expecting the sentencing

00:06:55.960 could be up to 10 years in prison for those three men. That'll come this summer. They did make

00:06:59.920 their decision rather quickly. Were you surprised by that? They made it about a couple hours.

00:07:03.460 It was, what I would say is that the legislation that we have in place for Critical Infrastructure

00:07:11.800 Act, it doesn't matter what your ideology is, or what your cause is, or what your political

00:07:20.200 perspective is. You simply cannot block critical infrastructure. So I don't support Extinction

00:07:27.860 Rebellion gluing themselves to the bridges. I don't support days of action that shut down our

00:07:34.860 railway lines, and I don't support inconveniencing neighbours and farmers and those who want to get 0.99

00:07:41.640 goods transported by shutting down borders and highways. And I think that this is a caution.

00:07:48.140 There's a way to be able to make your point known. There's a way to be able to advocate,

00:07:52.140 but you can't block critical infrastructure. Alex, what's your response to this?

00:07:56.380 Well, I see it again. I listened to it on Saturday, and it's like, I'm appalled. We weren't there for

00:08:03.900 ideology, right? We weren't for certain ideology. We were there fighting the tyrannical government

00:08:09.320 that was imposing illegal mandates, which have been proven now through that Ingram decision. So I'm

00:08:16.680 saying there was no personal gain out of this. I'm shocked if it was critical infrastructure, if they

00:08:22.740 want to charge us under the critical infrastructure act, there is a law in place for that, that we

00:08:27.440 could have been charged under. But they chose explicitly to use mischief to set a precedence,

00:08:34.020 I believe, to for future protesters to never protest again, if they give us a heavy enough

00:08:39.840 sentence and charges on the mischief is going to deter any future protesting from taking place.

00:08:45.440 I mean, it's sad that she's labeling us as a certain group or a certain ideology. We sure as

00:08:55.140 heck weren't there for that. We were there for all Albertans fighting tyranny and illegal mandates

00:09:01.020 that they were imposing on us.

00:09:03.840 So we know that Premier Smith, when she was immediately elected, she said that she had actually

00:09:08.800 initially hoped to grant amnesty or clemency for people charged for breaching COVID-19 restrictions.

00:09:14.560 Later on, you know, at the beginning of the January 2023, she came back and said,

00:09:19.640 actually, you know, I've looked into it. And this is something I'm not able to do

00:09:22.980 just the way that our systems are designed here in Canada. I don't have the power to legally grant

00:09:27.100 anyone amnesty. Often when I cover this story, I see people in the comments saying the Premier

00:09:31.920 needs to get those people off. She needs to grant them clemency. What do you personally think about

00:09:36.240 this? Do you think that there is a way for her to grant you clemency or have you accepted that she

00:09:40.620 doesn't have the power to do that? Well, and there's two sides to it. I understand

00:09:46.900 that she maybe doesn't have the power to, but she does. She has to look at what was happening in our

00:09:53.400 country at the time and the mistakes that the government had made. And I feel that she has to

00:09:58.860 say, you know what, based on what was happening under Jason Kenney's rule, that it was being done

00:10:05.720 illegally, which forced good citizens to have to participate in such a thing to force their hand,

00:10:14.740 I guess, in dropping these mandates. I know our judicial system is separate from our political

00:10:19.540 system. I understand that. And it sets a precedence to, I guess, for further groups or anything to say,

00:10:27.740 well, if they can get away with it, then we can, down the road, you'll see all kinds of groups

00:10:33.380 doing these kind of measures and civil disobedience. But I believe this was outside of any group or

00:10:40.060 personal gain. This was a fight in the tyrannical government, which she agreed with. She said coups

00:10:46.780 needed to happen to stop what was happening in our province and country at that time. And she publicly 0.56

00:10:53.240 said that. And now to retract that saying, you know what, I believe there's a way that she could

00:10:58.740 have, even if she would have said that she couldn't agree with the blocking of it, but she agreed with

00:11:04.540 the stand that we took on it, fighting against the tyranny that was happening.

00:11:09.700 Something else I have to ask you is, you know, some conservatives might make the argument of law

00:11:14.340 and order. I personally wouldn't make that argument myself, but they might say this is just a case of law

00:11:17.920 an order. But even if we were to take that argument for what it is, there's also so many cases of people

00:11:23.400 committing much worse crimes and being let off for much more. And not to even mention the catch and

00:11:28.820 release system that we have going on. So how do you feel about that? Just sort of the, what seems to

00:11:33.380 be unfairness of it, all of you guys being prosecuted for this. And we have actual violent criminals

00:11:38.160 who are back out on the streets in no time.

00:11:40.540 And you're 100% right, because she, they had an opportunity to charge us there again, under that

00:11:48.040 critical infrastructure defense act, which was implemented, I believe in 2018, when that train

00:11:54.600 tracks were blocked by the natives in Ontario. And that's when they are, maybe it was Northern 1.00

00:12:00.120 Alberta, I can't remember where it was, but they brought that infrastructure act in place

00:12:04.200 for that. And if, if she would have had that opportunity to speak to Mickey Amory, Mickey Amory,

00:12:10.520 our Minister of Justice, to say, hey, you got these charges, charge them under the infrastructure act,

00:12:17.560 because she was well aware of what we were charged with, but she chose to still allow this to go

00:12:23.200 through. So it tells me that she had no intention of trying to get us off of this.

00:12:29.400 When we talk about what the Premier is able to do, we know that she had asked her Justice Minister

00:12:33.240 to look into the charges about COVID-19, see if there was cases of reasonable prosecution.

00:12:38.760 Later, she received an ethics violation for that. The ethics commissioner said she should

00:12:42.140 not have had those conversations with her Justice Minister. So even despite that ruling,

00:12:46.300 you still think there's more she could have done?

00:12:49.900 So I do believe there's more that she could have done, maybe not directly outside, but behind the scenes

00:12:56.920 to, you know, had the Justice Minister look at it and say, hey, you know what,

00:13:02.360 I'm not allowed to interfere. But you know what, maybe drop the charges from mischief to critical

00:13:08.360 infrastructure, give us a fine, where it wouldn't have affected anybody, and it wouldn't have changed

00:13:14.180 nothing. And nobody would have known the difference whether she was involved or not, because it would

00:13:19.680 have been a separate lake. But she could have just said, hey, can you get these charges changed?

00:13:25.180 She has that power and ability to do so. 0.98

00:13:27.320 Alex, you said that you can expect to see that sentencing in September. How are you spending

00:13:32.740 these next few months until we have that amount, what the actual sentencing is going to be?

00:13:38.800 Well, it's going to be tough for me. Like I run not a large scale operation, but we feed about 7,000

00:13:44.480 head. I have seven kids and nine grandkids, three more on the way. Within the next six,

00:13:51.560 eight weeks here, I'll have three more grandkids. So it depends on the length of the sentencing.

00:13:58.840 But I have a lot to switch over to my kids, you know, to put this weight on them. We run 350 cow-calf

00:14:06.400 pairs. We farm about 2,500 acres. And yeah, to be able to all of a sudden let all that go for

00:14:15.700 something I felt that we stood up for, for all Albertans and all Canadians. And I would like to

00:14:22.460 hope and see that Albertans now are going to stand up and lobby against our Premier and ask the Premier

00:14:29.820 to somehow do something to stop what's happening, because this is not justice. You know, it's how do

00:14:37.360 you word it? I guess legally we were guilty, but morally we weren't.

00:14:42.540 Alex, thank you so much.

00:14:43.820 You're more than welcome.

00:14:45.740 To the rest of our audience, we'll be back on Saturday with our regular programming. Thank

00:14:49.700 you so much for tuning in today. Don't forget to subscribe to Tune North and like this video.

00:14:53.300 I hope that you all have a great week and God bless.

The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - April 25, 2024

‘This is not justice’ — member of Coutts 3 responds

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