The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - What we know about the Coutts 4

00:00:00.000 two men have been in jail for nearly three years for their involvement in the coots border blockade

00:00:15.360 the crowd once argued that they were guilty of conspiracy to murder rcmp officers a judge found

00:00:23.220 them not guilty earlier this month but they are still in jail why is it that these men have been

00:00:29.140 in jail for such a long time other criminals commit murder and they seem to be out much faster

00:00:34.520 than those involved with the coots border blockade hey everyone welcome back to the elberta roundup

00:00:39.000 i'm your host rachel parker joining me today to discuss is my call my colleague isaac larue

00:00:43.780 who has been covering this case closely isaac thank you so much for joining us today

00:00:48.020 thanks good to be here and just to preface this i'm not a lawyer obviously a journalist so

00:00:54.180 to take everything i say with a grain of salt there's this is definitely not legal advice

00:00:58.240 fair enough so when we talk about this let's just start by kind of explaining what this case is

00:01:04.960 and how this is distinct from the coots three so you know obviously following the coots border blockade

00:01:10.720 there was a number of charges that were laid something that i covered closely was the coots

00:01:15.160 three that refers to marco van huygenbos alex van herc and george jansen they were three men

00:01:20.620 they were charged with mischief over five thousand dollars they were found guilty and they now await

00:01:26.220 sentencing that sentencing was supposed to come in july it has been pushed to september um i've

00:01:31.020 interviewed them a few times and i will have updates for you guys in later weeks and months

00:01:35.280 and what's going on there but this case that we are we're taking a look at uh it largely refers to

00:01:40.080 the coots four now two of the men are no longer are no longer being charged and um they've already

00:01:45.260 been sentenced isaac why don't you break down for us who these men are and what exactly they were

00:01:49.980 being charged for the og charges if you will yeah rachel so the coots four originally consisted

00:01:56.200 of anthony olenek chris carbear chris lysack and jerry morin and the latter two accepted a plea deal

00:02:03.160 on lesser charges in february so the conspiracy to commit murder charges were dropped and both of

00:02:09.380 those men were released after serving two years in jail lysack pleaded guilty to a restricted weapons

00:02:16.660 charge and morin pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to traffic a firearm charge uh both men were handed

00:02:23.500 equivalent sentences for time served in custody so the recommendation from the prosecutors uh

00:02:30.200 amounted to a three-year sentence for lysack and a three and a half year sentence for morin and

00:02:35.540 generally anyone who is detained receives a credit of one and a half days for each day serve

00:02:41.320 sorry each day served and morin actually spent 74 days in solitary confinement which receives a

00:02:49.020 multiplier of three days so uh after those two took their plea deals carbear and olenek remained in

00:02:56.600 custody on allegations that they conspired to murder rcmp members members who were policing the

00:03:03.420 border protest at the coots international crossing into montana and their trial was at the time scheduled

00:03:08.980 for june so just going back to those first two who are no longer in jail that's christopher lysack

00:03:15.380 that's jeff morin they were both in jails and they were released in february 2024 after 723 days

00:03:22.440 jail and you were saying you know for jeff morin he was in solitary confinement for 70 days and was

00:03:28.720 given an extra credit so based on the charges i mean first of all that is insane 70 days in solitary

00:03:33.340 confinement like most people would come out of that as a as a broken person like that's not something

00:03:39.520 that um is most people can get through like that would actually break you down as a person if you

00:03:44.960 think about i mean for myself you know more extroverted as a person i i feel a little as if

00:03:49.780 i've gone a couple hours without having spoken to someone else like this is like true evil we are

00:03:54.380 seeing here and then they were let off eventually after pleading guilty to much lesser crimes so when you

00:04:00.120 were talking about they were given a credit it sounds like they actually spent much more time

00:04:03.280 in jail than they should have yeah and just going back to the solitary confinement part i mean i i

00:04:11.480 generally like to think that i i don't mind isolation but i'm sure anyone can imagine that 74 days

00:04:18.020 in solitary confinement i mean even making it through that is honorable in a sense that i mean i can almost

00:04:26.060 think of very little things in the world that would be that challenging that reminds me a little bit

00:04:32.420 of when the two michaels were detained in china and i know um just reading some of the stories that

00:04:37.700 was coming out at the time when they were still detained and the michael the one michael was saying

00:04:41.080 you know they took his reading glasses away and he wasn't able to read and just how much he was

00:04:44.500 struggling and that in that time and i think it's hard to imagine for for us like what that would be

00:04:49.320 like because it's just such a foreign idea of you know being just totally alone um but you know

00:04:54.300 i really i hope these men are okay because it's a very traumatizing thing that's happened to them

00:04:58.960 by the state by the people that you know really are in charge of protecting canadians and it's an

00:05:04.220 absolute failure here so let's take a look at the other two who are still in remands we've got olenek

00:05:09.060 and we've got car bay they eventually um were convicted of charges of mischief and a possession of a weapon

00:05:15.380 um rather than the original crime of conspiracy to kill stamp officers um they were found um not guilty of

00:05:23.900 that of that higher crime of conspiracy in early august but they still remain in jail right now

00:05:31.240 that they were found not guilty in early august they still remain in jail i know that sentencing

00:05:35.520 is supposed to come next week what can we expect to see with this case what are the latest updates

00:05:39.680 to this case with these two men who still remain in remand for about now three three years yeah so

00:05:46.420 just going back to that timeline when the trial was first set to begin in june olenek and car bay

00:05:51.900 had spent 840 days in remand awaiting trial so yeah as you said essentially three years

00:05:58.420 so now the uh the alberta crown prosecutors have given a notice that they intend to appeal

00:06:03.780 the not guilty verdicts given to those two as you mentioned earlier in in august the lethbridge jury

00:06:10.740 had found that they were not guilty of conspiracy to murder police officers however they were convicted

00:06:17.320 of mischief and possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose and olenek was also found

00:06:23.000 guilty of possessing a pipe bomb so the two are going to face sentencing next week on august 26

00:06:29.840 and they both still remain in custody so isaac i know that you've been following this case closely

00:06:36.020 like for the general public i feel like we haven't heard very much from these two men do you have any

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00:07:10.020 sign up at disney plus dot com yeah so this is very interesting uh just yesterday on x this was on

00:07:20.120 the um andrew levine show i think it was but uh chris carver essentially called his friend uh marco van

00:07:27.540 hugenboss uh last night members of the coop three yeah as he was on this podcast and he just picked up

00:07:34.100 the call and was put it on speaker and and spoke to him for like 10 minutes which was uh obviously a

00:07:39.480 pretty lucky and random act to happen but it did and the most surprising thing uh i want to say just

00:07:45.800 from listening to that interview quickly was that and they noted this on the show too marco did that

00:07:52.020 that carver really sound to be sounded to be in good spirits you know he wasn't you didn't hear him

00:07:57.880 speak and think wow this guy's depressed he actually sounded pretty good and then he described his

00:08:02.680 intentions for the upcoming week so he said on monday uh the judge will basically determine how

00:08:09.920 the jury reached the decision that they did and then the judge will give their decision on tuesday

00:08:14.560 and then arguments for sentencing will begin on thursday so that's for the the lesser charges that

00:08:21.320 they did get found guilty of and then the the charges will essentially be given on friday so

00:08:27.800 they kind of uh talk to chris about how he expects this to go and he said he does expect a decision to

00:08:34.260 be made by the end of this week but also that his lawyer thinks that they might be trying to get

00:08:39.420 under his skin and he doesn't necessarily expect them to go away quietly sure i mean understandable that

00:08:46.060 you would feel that way this point and good to hear that he is in good spirits because i think a lot

00:08:48.920 of times we look at legal case it really is a situation in which people are just worn down and don't have

00:08:54.380 any fight left in them as well as the financial ability to continue to to continue fighting these

00:08:59.380 charges so we talked about that they are awaiting their sentencing that's going to come next week

00:09:03.600 obviously they will be given a credit for their time already served um this is a significant amount

00:09:08.800 of time at this point about three years did olenek say if he's expecting that he will have to

00:09:13.900 remain in jail or is he expecting after the sentencing to come based on the credit that he will receive

00:09:18.800 for all the time already spent in jail is he expecting to be released did he say anything about that

00:09:22.520 so sorry this was chris carver not not olenek but he did he didn't mention that but one thing that

00:09:27.340 is very interesting that they talked about briefly especially for this alberta roundup show

00:09:31.760 was they discussed the possibility of danielle smith opening an inquiry into the legal proceedings once 0.87

00:09:38.400 the trial has concluded which they are expecting to come within the week and and carvera unsurprisingly

00:09:44.840 said that he definitely supports that he said quote most people are going to be surprised at the

00:09:51.380 things that are happening in our judicial system and inside our federal agency and then he said

00:09:56.480 quote i think there needs to be an inquiry because i don't want other people to go through this like i

00:10:02.300 did and like tony did and like the two other guys to me this has been political the whole time and a

00:10:08.140 cover-up for the emergencies act how likely i mean you know interesting that that was raised i can

00:10:15.300 understand why he would support that inquiry and would desire it how likely do you think it is that

00:10:19.860 alberta premier daniel smith would support such an inquiry

00:10:23.060 i don't know it's hard to say and i i really do think that the coots four and the coots two have

00:10:31.900 had uh generally pretty good public support so that might help sway smith in deciding whether or not

00:10:40.720 to open an inquiry if she deems that it would go over well in the public eye so obviously i'm sure many

00:10:49.180 people are hoping that an inquiry is open but it's hard to say whether or not it will and of course

00:10:54.260 uh i should specify that i think it was van hugenbaas said on the show too he said let's make sure this is

00:10:59.680 an independent inquiry because uh obviously when government agencies investigate government agencies

00:11:04.440 uh not a lot comes of it sure i would personally be surprised if uh the premier did support such an

00:11:10.860 inquiry given um in her public comments it seems that she's tried to sort of distance herself from this case and say that

00:11:17.340 it's solely a case of the judicial system and that you know her government has nothing to do with it 1.00

00:11:21.820 and shouldn't have anything to do with it based on the fact that she you know was already uh received 1.00

00:11:26.920 sort of that ethics slap on the wrist for talking to her justice minister asking him whether prosecution

00:11:32.520 of covet 19 cases including the coots border blockade was appropriate the ethics commissioner had

00:11:37.320 found and said that that was inappropriate that she did that and we've seen you know a strong effort

00:11:41.380 from her to distance herself but i think in the context of the fact that the um ucp convention is

00:11:49.140 coming up in november or the annual general meeting uh more correctly is coming up in november if this

00:11:54.360 is something that the conservative base cares about as you mentioned these men the coots three and the 0.72

00:11:58.900 coots four and i guess more specifically the coots two who remain in jail they have had a lot of public

00:12:03.420 support from conservatives this is something that conservatives should put pressure on ahead of the agm

00:12:08.500 maybe even pass a motion at the agm to say that they would like the party to support such an inquiry

00:12:13.760 into this case um isaac just you know just my last question for you here everyone's been talking about

00:12:20.940 this case you know a lot of speculation a lot of people are saying this is one of the worst cases of

00:12:25.160 canadian political prosecution that they've seen what's your take on the situation do you think that

00:12:29.360 these men have been treated fairly by our justice system or is this truly a case of a deep-rooted and

00:12:35.920 unfair and unjust political prosecution in canada stemming from people who were treated so poorly

00:12:42.760 during the copa 19 pandemic canadians who still love and respect and desire to see their civil liberties

00:12:48.280 upheld what's your take yeah uh i do think this whole procedure has been unjust and not just for

00:12:57.320 the coots two the coots three the coots four but also of course tamera leach and chris barber and i mean

00:13:03.740 the list goes on as people who know that those who uh protested let's say or against the the pandemic

00:13:14.740 measures have not been treated fairly those who have decided not to get vaccines and or have been

00:13:21.560 injured from the vaccines have not necessarily been treated fairly i mean the list goes on we could be

00:13:26.520 here all day speaking about the the unfairness of of the pandemic and and the subsequent

00:13:31.520 legal proceedings uh i do have a few quotes here from when uh independent journalist mocha bezorgen he

00:13:39.760 was outside of uh the coots hearing and he talked to a few people one of whom was a retired federal

00:13:45.920 correctional officer who said that she had been quote responsible for the incarceration of some of

00:13:52.440 canada's most notorious criminals and then she went on to liken the ordeal of the coots four to quote

00:13:59.360 torture she said quote i still don't believe people should be tortured in our country and i really

00:14:05.300 believe that's what the men are experiencing in remand for two and a half years is torture torturous

00:14:10.540 i have lots of quotes i could go through here but i mean look there there's no there's no

00:14:17.880 yeah no it has been a a judicial injustice and and i do think that if uh any inquiry were to occur

00:14:26.460 that was a fair inquiry and an independent inquiry it would definitely show

00:14:31.500 injustice at levels that i think most people don't even want to begin to think is possible

00:14:39.460 in canada and alberta i mean i think just to put it into context like anyone who's paying attention

00:14:45.420 is concerned when let's go out our justice system seems every week if not every day we get a news

00:14:50.020 story about someone who committed a stabbing or was involved in shooting that we all was already

00:14:55.560 released on bail and and these men you know they were not eligible for bail i pulled some numbers

00:15:00.300 here um just from the last few years in 2017 a man was given three years for killing three teens

00:15:06.680 there's only given three years in jail these men have been in jail for about three years and they

00:15:10.400 didn't kill anyone in 2021 a man was given eight years for killing four people 2023 five years for

00:15:16.800 killing two children like these numbers just don't add up why are these men being treated so

00:15:21.180 with such hostility by our justice system and people who have actually committed murder are are honestly

00:15:27.620 given us on the wrist like these should have all been back-to-back life sentence for every life that

00:15:32.040 was that was taken so it is very disheartening to see isaac thank you so much for kind of breaking this

00:15:37.120 down for us i know that uh we'll be eager to watch your coverage next week of of the next steps in

00:15:42.080 in this case so thanks so much for coming on and uh and sharing your insight with our viewers today

00:15:46.180 thanks a lot rachel i appreciate it all right everyone that's all we have time for today on

00:15:51.540 the alberta round don't forget to check our website tnc.news this week for the updates on that

00:15:56.620 case isaac will have all the details for you i hope that you guys have a great rest of your

00:16:02.240 weekend i will see you next week with some more alberta coverage god bless

00:16:07.120 you

The Alberta Roundup with Isaac Lamoureux - August 24, 2024

What we know about the Coutts 4

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