Episode 101 LIVE： ATF Director Melts (feat. Rep. Tim Burchett)– Firebrand with Matt Gaetz
Summary
Rabblerousers and are joined by Rep. Tim Burchett (R-GA) to discuss the debt ceiling vote and ATF Director James Comey's testimony on gun control and surveillance. Rep. Matt Gaetz (R/GA) joins the show to talk about his vote against a debt ceiling increase and why he voted against it.
Transcript
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Matt Gaetz was one of the very few members in the entire Congress
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who bothered to stand up against permanent Washington on behalf of his constituents.
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Matt Gaetz right now, he's a problem for the Democratic Party.
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He could cause a lot of hiccups in passing the laws.
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So we're going to keep running those stories to get hurt again.
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if you want to build America up and not burn her to the ground,
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then welcome, my fellow patriots. You are in the right place.
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I'm a canceled man in some corners of the Internet.
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Many days I'm a marked man in Congress, a wanted man by the deep state.
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They aren't really coming for me. They're coming for you.
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Several votes tonight, but the main one, of course, was raising the debt limit,
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The proposal that we sent over to the Senate does not, in fact, cut the deficit.
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It actually adds, over 10 years, almost 19 trillion new dollars.
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So it's not cutting the hefts. It just cuts the rate of growth.
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So anyway, I'm going to keep fighting for fiscal responsibility,
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although sometimes it seems it is my backs against the law on this stuff.
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He'll be joining us in just a moment to talk about all of today's events here in Congress,
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but Tim Burchett joined me and Andy Biggs and Ken Buck as the only Republicans voting
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against the $1.5 trillion increase in the debt limit.
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We're going to get Congressman Burchett's hot takes on that,
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but also key information regarding testimony from the director of ATF on the live stream.
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They're watching from South Carolina, Pensacola, Jacksonville, Oklahoma,
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and we get a lot of feedback on these issues where the ATF is targeting gun owners.
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I had the ATF director for five minutes going to give you that content.
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Also, FISA, this Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Authority that often is not used to target foreign entities.
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You're going to find out how many of these queries have occurred
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where a whole lot of FBI has got a whole lot of access to data without a warrant,
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I'm going to show you where the top uniformed individual for the United States Air Force
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tried to convince me that the words mom and dad are exclusionary.
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But first, joining us, Congressman Tim Burchett.
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Tim, you made some news joining us rabble-rousers in voting against this increase in the debt limit.
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It adds, if you add $1.5 trillion a year over 10 years, $17 plus trillion,
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Well, we've got to stop it at some point, and this going back and forth, it's just not happening.
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I didn't vote for it under Trump, and I haven't done it under Biden.
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And to me, it's just disingenuous to vote for it.
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So, I mean, you laid out the math to me as we were meeting with negotiators
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and talking with some of the designers of this plan that even though there is some limitation
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in the growth of the federal budget, that this plan, the supposed Republican plan,
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the conservative plan to save the dollar, reverse inflation, unlock energy,
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all that was going to put us at a moment 10 years from now with about $49 trillion in debt.
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When I was in the state legislature, I know you were in the state legislature in Florida.
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I was in Tennessee, and they'd always talk about, oh, we're cutting the rate of growth.
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If you're growing at an exponential amount and you cut it by a little bit, it's still growing.
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And I got so sick of people saying, this is the largest cut in government that we've ever had.
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But it's growing at such a level, the percentage is just so minuscule.
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But actually, in our state legislatures, we don't talk like they talk in Washington.
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When we talk about a cut in the state legislature, that actually means fewer dollars than you got in the prior year.
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Only in Washington is a cut still massive growth in the overall cost of the program,
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but just a reduction in the rate of that growth.
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Are you also worried that the dollar itself might be in jeopardy?
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I remember I was in the county mayor's office, and the girls in my office came in because they got a raise because of the economy and Trump.
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And they came in going, choo-choo, we're on the Trump train now, boss, because I was a Trump guy.
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And two years ago, if you made $100,000, and today it would be worth $85,000.
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If you want to wreck this economy, let's just continue doing what we're doing.
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The number one question we got asked today as we were walking out of our final votes, well, where does it go from here?
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What's your assessment of how you think the Senate will react to this offer and where this ultimately resolves?
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Are we headed to spending cuts that are acceptable?
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Are we headed to just a veneer of spending cuts and a massive increase in the debt limit?
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I just don't think the Senate's going to do anything.
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I think they're going to flip it back to us, stripped, and then we'll have to see.
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I mean, the news is your assessment is that the Senate will not respond to this package with the reduction of even one planned dollar in spending.
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The president said we're not going to negotiate, so he and Schumer joined it to HIP.
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And I just don't see it happening because I don't think the president's capable of it.
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Even though the president was in charge in 2011 under Biden of negotiating the debt limit, he just said he's not going to do it.
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And they've messaged this thing as such that we're cutting, you know, or, you know.
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Yeah, and so I just don't see us getting anywhere.
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I think we'll run right up to a shutdown and possibly have a shutdown.
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And we pat ourselves on the back and call it, oh, we've fought the good fight.
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Tennessee Congressman Tim Burchett did not blink when we had the vote on the plan to increase the debt limit by $1.5 trillion.
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He joined fellow firebrands Andy Biggs, Ken Buck, myself.
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We may have to get ready for some shutdown politics and some shutdown economic consequences.
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If your assessment is that there's going to be a stalemate, a hardening of positions, I think that the thinking among Republican leadership in the House is that this is going to dislodge some negotiating activity.
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But one thing that a serious country would not do, $32 trillion in debt, is spend so much money and send so many of its bravest patriots to faraway lands for unclear gain and the lack of an end state.
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And today we had a debate and a vote on legislation that I filed to withdraw U.S. troops from Somalia.
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We'll come back and get Congressman Burchett's reaction.
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I hope that when my life ends, Somalia isn't synonymous with famine and failed states and civil wars and coups.
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But we must also exercise sufficient humility in this body to understand the capabilities of persuasion for a relatively small batch of American troops given the problem.
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And I would return to the argument that I made earlier in this discussion.
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There is an opportunity cost to this in people.
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There are specific units that call my district home that are having to split between AFRICOM and Indo-PACOM when the reality is whether or not our children are speaking Mandarin, our grandchildren are having to get dominated by the Chinese Communist Party.
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Somalia is not going to be the result of who wins the battle of Mogadishu.
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It's going to be the result of who holds the high ground against our true pacing adversaries.
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And becoming the neighborhood block captain of Somalia is certainly not the behavior of a serious country engaged in very serious challenges against serious adversaries.
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I certainly thank the leadership for permitting me such time.
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We are back live with Congressman Tim Burchett.
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Kathy on Facebook says she is ready for the shutdown.
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Kay Shaw on Rumble says they're getting half the groceries at twice the price.
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What do you think folks in East Tennessee think about sending Americans to Somalia?
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Americans are patriotic people in Tennessee and specifically.
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In Vietnam, they had a statistically higher number of volunteers went.
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My mama flew an airplane during the Second World War.
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But nobody knows what the heck's going on over there.
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We have over 500 Americans there now, excluding our embassy personnel, the Marines that do that.
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We're in countries that don't appreciate what we have.
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It's like going literally to a caveman and handing him a cell phone.
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Yeah, like trying to spread Jeffersonian democracy like it's going to spread like COVID across North Africa.
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I mean, these folks live in a different lifestyle.
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And yeah, I think I think it helps the terrorists potentially recruit new members.
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If there are U.S. uniformed service members patrolling the streets engaged in local law enforcement.
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Yeah, dressed up like something that's come from Mars or something.
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Because I've done this now in Syria, Somalia, may do Niger next.
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And I wonder why so many Republicans and Democrats see utility in sprinkling our service members around the globe.
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I think there's key members in both parties that profit from this.
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You know, we vote for a missile defense system we're going to send to Ukraine, things like that.
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But the rules are that we have to every time we do that, we have to supplant ours or supply ours to bring ours back up to a certain level by rule or law or whatever is in the in the deal.
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And then and they know that and they've got stock in that.
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And so you you don't believe that it's that they accept the underlying argument of globalism.
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You believe it is just raw, craven self-interest.
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Well, I think some of the key people are that's what they believe.
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But they put it in these idealistic folks that maybe have never, never had a father that that that had to kill people for his country that that wake up and you couldn't wake him up over his himself.
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I would still have to wake him up that way because he might wake up thinking where he was as an 18 or 19 year old young man.
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And then you whisper in their ear some idealistic garbage.
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A few liberals are idealistic conservatives that rah, rah, we're America.
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And then the United States ends up being the world's piggy bank and the world's police force.
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We've got nothing except a bunch of body bags with American names on them.
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Yeah, and families that will never be the same and minds and body parts and communities.
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Staff Sergeant Ryan Knauss, the last person to die in Afghanistan, my constituent.
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He should have been home on Easter Sunday with his family.
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And these bad decisions repeat over and over again.
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And certainly we hope that we're able to persuade more of our colleagues.
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But I think the American people also have to wake up to the driving factors of these decisions.
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I also want to get to the very freedoms that people like our veterans fight for.
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And increasingly in this country, we're seeing the Second Amendment under attack.
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We're seeing law-abiding gun owners totally villainized unfairly.
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And the ATF has really exceeded the authority we've given them.
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They're making millions of Americans inadvertent felons based on this thing that they're calling, oh gosh, what is it, Tim?
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So if you mess up anything in your paperwork, they come for you.
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But yet they can't live up to that same standard.
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I got a chance to point that out with the ATF director this week.
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Well, I don't know if you're referring to any particular incident or time period.
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How many instances should we be looking at where you've lost guns?
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So if what you're referring to is what happened at the National Destruction Branch, no guns were lost.
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They were stolen by an individual who's now in prison who was not an ATF employee.
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There were recommendations made on what you should do so that you don't become the victim of the theft.
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And the inspector general is saying you're not following them.
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I'm quoting directly from the inspector general's report.
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Thousands of firearms, firearms, parts, and ammunition had been stolen from the ATF.
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So you gave testimony that the brave ATF agents are the ones showing up at 2 in the morning after a burglary.
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But it seems as though in this case you were the one burglarized.
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But why have you not followed the recommendations of the Office of Inspector General so that you aren't the mark?
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Again, I want to say that it is brave men and women of ATF who do this.
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So you can't keep a hold of the guns you're supposed to have.
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But then you do keep a hold of a bunch of stuff you're not supposed to have a hold of.
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The GAO report, firearms data, ATF, did not always comply with the Appropriations Act restriction and should better adhere to its policies.
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As a result of breaking the law, didn't you guys have to go and delete like a quarter of a million records that you illegally kept?
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Again, with respect to both the inspector general reports that you're talking about.
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Well, the GAO, the inspector general report, ATF, that happened several years ago, more than that.
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But the theft, and ATF has implemented numerous different safety measures with respect to the National Destructive Branch.
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Well, I mean, I'm reading to you from the report from last year, Mr. Director, we found that the NDB staff does not currently, currently in 2022, adhere to establish operating procedures in place to mitigate risk of firearms being lost and stolen.
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So I guess that shows an ATF that is not functioning correctly and is not responding to the problems you create.
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It was a quarter million of them you had to delete, right?
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I just want to know the number of records you had to delete that were not being lawfully maintained.
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There were records that had not actually been searched, but my understanding is were searchable.
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I got this letter from someone in my district, a firearms dealer.
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For 46 years, I've had a good relationship with law enforcement.
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Two years ago, while in the process of selling a firearm to a customer, I completed their background check using Florida's FDLE firearm purchasing program.
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The background check was uneventful, and FDLE rendered an approval number.
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Some months later, during an ATF audit, I was told the background check was now a non-approval.
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Even though FDLE made the error, it was on my paperwork, so ATF deemed it a willful error.
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After completing close to 50,000 background checks over 46 years, why would I willfully ignore this background check?
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But the ATF has revoked my license, ended my career, and my livelihood.
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So I guess the question is, why should you be able to destroy the life of one of my constituents over a technicality where they weren't even at fault,
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when you all lose thousands of guns and illegally keep hundreds of thousands of records?
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Respectfully, Congress has given us the authority to inspect and make sure that firearms dealers, the vast majority by the which, are compliant.
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They are our first line of defense in dealing with straw purchases.
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This guy isn't your first line of defense anymore.
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A very small minority, those dealers, after due process, have been determined.
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A small minority, a small minority, ATF, enforcer of gun laws, lost thousands of firearm parts to thieves.
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New data shows ATF, gun store restrictions, at the highest rate in 16 years.
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Mr. Director, the definition of hypocrisy is when you can't live up to your own standard.
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So you have imposed a zero-tolerance policy that is resulting in the highest rate of revocations in 16 years,
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and you wouldn't be able to meet your own zero-tolerance policy because you lose stuff you're supposed to keep,
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and then you keep stuff that it's illegal to keep.
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And by the way, I am one of those MAGA Republicans that would defund your salary, your agency,
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and I think all these good things that you say exist could happen with those folks at the local and state level,
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John on Facebook calling the ATF modern-day KGB.
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What do folks in East Tennessee think about the ATF?
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Well, the director, I don't think, Dadgummit, I don't think he could spell ATF.
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I've used a gun to protect my constitutional rights.
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My warehouse, we're stealing some of my motorcycles,
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If this stock thing is going to put dealers out of business,
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it's ridiculous because there's no clear definition.
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You've got to hire an attorney to figure it out,
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or do you just have to devolve these powers to the state and local level?
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I have no problem with our state and local authorities monitoring and regulating this.
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And by the way, if they want to create interstate compacts to be able to share and track data,
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they don't need the federal government overseeing that to even make that an effective thing
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But the reality is the ATF, really, they're like on a snipe hunt.
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And then you have to start believing in witches if you're in the business of witch hunting.
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Or they drown you, and then if you drown, they go,
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Well, that's happening to far too many dealers, mom and pops, small businesses,
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and we have to keep fighting for them and going after guys like that
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Now, speaking of witch hunts, we all know that the Russia hoax began with the FBI
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and the Department of Justice misusing the FISA process.
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This is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
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And what they do is they act as though they're targeting a foreigner,
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but through incidental collection, they get information on Americans that then they save
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Now, over every executive agency, there's an inspector general
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who has an obligation to review their conduct and to judge its adherence
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The inspector general over the Department of Justice is Obama-appointed.
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And that is what I think makes this line of questioning from earlier today so interesting.
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I want to get into the 3.4 million backdoor sources that the ranking member pointed out
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Mr. Secretary General, how should the public think about those?
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Well, I think what we've seen in the various public reports,
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and I'm limited in what I can say about what's public,
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which I think is one of the issues, by the way,
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that's what we're talking about is transparency here.
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It's obviously very concerning that there's a broad volume of searches,
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and particularly concerning the error rate that was reported on in the last two years
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I think fellow members, I think it's around 30%.
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I'm a lawyer, not a mathematician, but 3.4 million, about 30%.
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You're talking about seven figures of error in terms of these searches.
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I'm wondering, how many people can perform these backdoor queries?
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I'm going to defer to board members because you've had the review ongoing.
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I'm afraid I don't have those figures at my fingertips in terms of the number of people
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But I share the concern expressed in the question that we need to have greater safeguards,
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and I urge Congress to incorporate a requirement for FISA court review of these kinds of searches
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Four million backdoor searches, more than a million of them in error.
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If I represent to you that we believe there may be north of 10,000 people in the federal government
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that can perform those queries, would anyone here have a basis to disagree with that assessment?
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I've got Congressman Burchett, my good friend from Tennessee, here.
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And make sure that you follow his podcast, Tennessee Talks with Tim Burchett.
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I listen to it on Apple, but you also have a video version available on YouTube, right?
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Well, what's your YouTube channel so folks can find it?
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And a lot of folks from Congress come on and share their perspective as well.
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But I want to get your perspective on this FBI, DOJ, coloring outside the lines on how they're collecting intelligence.
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And that's where they went after Trump illegally and basically just falsified everything.
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If they can go after a man running for president of the United States, they can go after anybody.
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And I don't see how the evidence can be entered, but they're allowed to do it.
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For folks who don't know about FISA, it is a secret court that exists without a defense attorney.
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So it is the government in secret alone with a judge with decisions that never get published or reviewed to see how jurisprudence develops.
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And so we've had these reports after reports come out showcasing how the FBI is not complying with the law.
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They're not complying with their own procedures.
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And there's no one there to hold them accountable at all.
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These authorities are coming up for renewal this year.
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And I am not voting to reauthorize FISA, these 702 authorities that have been most abused.
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I know a lot of my colleagues are going to hear arguments from the Intelligence Committee.
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We're going to make arguments on the Judiciary Committee from the standpoint of people's civil rights and constitutional rights.
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Because if they need to get this information, for national security reasons, they can get a warrant.
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They can get a warrant, and then we've got a system that is tried and true.
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Because if they can go after conservatives, they sure as hell go after a liberal as well.
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You would think that this would be – because transparency is where it's at in my book.
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Just let the sun shine in and let everybody see what's going on.
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Yeah, and we have not had that for far too long.
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And then when we get these searing moments today where you've got the inspector general saying
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there were 3.4 million queries of incidentally collected information, all collected without a warrant.
00:28:16.580
Well, I also have to get to one final moment we had today that I really wasn't expecting.
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We're in the Armed Services Committee, and the Air Force is presenting their budget.
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And when they do, it's reasonable to ask questions about everything from the Air Force's deployments
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to their strategies to their munitions and hypersonics and platforms and planes and pilots,
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but also their training, and particularly training the next generation of Air Force leaders
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that we get the proud honor to be able to nominate to our service academies.
00:28:48.400
So my colleague from Michigan, Lisa McClain, is asking this guy who is the top general
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in the entire United States Air Force, General Brown, the chief of the Air Force.
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She's asking him questions about curriculum at the Air Force Academy that seems to say
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And after hearing his response, or really his non-response, I couldn't help myself.
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I have in front of me, you know, the slides on the diversity training and the equity and
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How much money and time do we really spend on that?
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Can we get a better sense to help educate everyone?
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I can provide you, you know, exact information for the record, but I will tell you,
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most of our training and most of our focus is on the readiness of the force.
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And part of that readiness of the force is to ensure that they were building cohesive teams,
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and part of those cohesive teams is to get to know our mental left or our right.
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And one of the things it talks about in one of your slides is not to recognize people as moms and dads.
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I mean, as a mother, I take a little bit of offense to that.
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It also talks about not using the word terrorist.
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Can you explain why we wouldn't use the word terrorist and mom and dad?
00:30:02.740
And I think you've got to get that message out because I think a lot of people are really
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frustrated and they feel like we're polarizing as opposed to coming together.
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What I would tell you is that what I perceive is we're risk reading some of the aspects of
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the things we're trying to do as we move the Air Force forward, and then we look at how
00:30:23.140
General Brown, I do have to ask you a question that sort of stems from what Ms. McClain was
00:30:29.620
She showed you this curriculum from the Air Force Academy, and she asked you why the terms
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And you said that you're working to build cohesive teams.
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So just wondering, how do the terms mom and dad impair cohesive team building?
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Part of leadership is understanding the people you're privileged to lead.
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And as you have that opportunity, you get to know them.
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And every one of us grows up differently and has different experiences, different backgrounds,
00:31:05.540
And so from that perspective, you've got to build that team and to build that trust with
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our airmen, in part because that trust is part of the cohesion that gives you the strong
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team to be able to go execute what the nation asks us to do.
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I understand better than most that families at times aren't defined by blood or even paperwork.
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And I know you have to recruit folks from different family environments into the Air Force.
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But do you think maybe it puts downward pressure on recruiting some of the people who
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do have moms and dads and do use the term mom and dad, if in the curriculum of the academy
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Because I think part of leadership is dignity or respect of those you're privileged to lead.
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You don't think it disrespects moms and dads when they send their young
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children, I guess, becoming adults into the academy, and then they see that mom and dad
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Do you agree that mom and dad should be disfavored terms?
00:32:15.060
I think we need to respect the fact that they have either parents, grandparents, aunts and
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But I mean, I know folks who've been raised by aunts and uncles, and none of them have ever
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told me that when they hear someone else call their parent mom or dad, that that upsets
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Do you know of people who feel excluded when others refer to their parents as mom or dad?
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Either way, whether it's aunts, uncles, moms, and dads, I have not come across anyone.
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The point of that slide, I'm familiar with it, came out of the Air Force Academy.
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It was actually created by cadets for training it.
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It's not very artful, but the point was that you should.
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When you see an American fighting man in a dress, and these people are promoting them,
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what do you think our enemies are thinking when they see this kind of stuff?
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What I think is that there are moms and dads who see this kind of nonsense and say, I
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And these are patriotic American families who love our country, and we need, especially
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families from the South, to put people into the military.
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You know what my dad was thinking when he was on Okinawa and he was on Peleliu, and going
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in there, he was thinking about his mom and dad.
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He was thinking, and he told me one time, they are sitting around Okinawa, because at night
00:33:45.880
it got a little cold, and the fighting had subsided for a while, and they ran off a
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little campfire, and they were all talking, and they were talking about what they had
00:33:54.760
back in the U.S. and how good it was, and how they didn't want those Japanese to get
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I don't know how someone could sit there and say, the reason I have to disfavor the words
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mom and dad and curriculum is because I have to do cohesive team building.
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And this isn't just some random person in the bureaucracy.
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The top guy in the thing who's defending this thing, and it's just beyond the pale.
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I mean, you have a mom saying, I find this offensive.
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The only thing I can think of is, I hate being a conspiracy theorist, but they want to break
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the whole system down, and they want to create some homogenous kind of deal, sort of a Marxist
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And your moms and dads have no place in that, other than bringing you into this world.
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If you were trying to bring the system down, you would destroy the family, you would destroy
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the dollar, you would destroy people's Second Amendment rights, you would spread our military
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too thin around the world, and you would collapse our budget.
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And I mean, as we've walked through the things that we've observed in Washington...
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...we are fighting against a lot of those very forces.
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And I'm honored to have you by my side in that fight.
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That's where they get the hot reports right off the steps of the Capitol.
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Make sure to listen to Tennessee Talks with Tim Burchett.