The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - Episode 163 LIVE： The Illegal Spying Agenda (feat. Reps. Dan Bishop & Warren Davidson) - Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

00:00:00.000 matt gates the biggest firebrand inside of the house of representatives you're not taking matt

00:00:08.240 gates off the board okay because matt gates is an american patriot and matt gates is an american

00:00:13.560 hero we will not continue to allow the uniparty to run this town without a fight i want to thank 1.00

00:00:20.720 you matt gates for holding the line matt gates is a courageous man if we had hundreds of matt gates

00:00:28.160 in dc the country turns around it's that simple he's so tough he's so strong he's smart and he

00:00:34.900 loves this country matt gates it is the honor of my life to fight alongside each and every one of you

00:00:42.700 we will save america it's choose your fighter time send in the firebrand

00:00:48.200 welcome to firebrand warren i'd love to start with you it's your first time with us uh what has been

00:00:57.560 your assessment of people's reaction to this republican majority as you've chatted with folks

00:01:03.460 over the last two weeks as we've been out of town yeah people are very frustrated they definitely

00:01:08.320 feel like republicans have squandered our majority they're like you know you guys said you were going

00:01:13.200 to cut spending and you said you were going to secure the border and you said a whole lot more

00:01:17.360 and none of that's going really well and you know the one bright spot i could hold up is say you know

00:01:22.740 a majority of the party actually said no thanks to the big spending bill right before this break

00:01:27.740 so you got to look for bright spots and at least that was something this is the argument that uh tom

00:01:34.140 cole a republican member from oklahoma said to me said matt you know you seem discouraged and you reflect

00:01:39.680 the discouragement of people who think we should be doing more but without this republican majority we

00:01:45.520 would have gotten another american rescue plan another big spending bill and at least we stood as a

00:01:51.880 ballast against that uh in north carolina dan do you sense people are appreciative of what we've

00:01:58.000 stopped or unfulfilled by the the lack of uh of our diligence north carolinians do not consider

00:02:05.860 uh you know it could have been worse without us being here a great argument for having delivered on

00:02:13.200 our mandate and that's it's just not i mean i hear it every time and i uh people come up to me every

00:02:19.640 i'm campaigning across north carolina now in a statewide campaign and i you know i just get never it never

00:02:27.260 ends and people comparing other members in in the republican majority who did vote in favor of that

00:02:33.900 that bill and uh they're fed up and no they're not consoled in any way uh by tom cole's excuses

00:02:41.620 so 1.2 trillion dollars in spending 3 000 pages of legislative text they waived the 72 hour rule

00:02:50.220 so that we couldn't give itemized review and due consideration to the things we were considering and

00:02:55.820 then as congressman davidson points out a majority of republicans vote no but we still have over a hundred

00:03:01.920 who vote yes alongside the democrats um what what feedback do you think they're getting because

00:03:07.700 i've had people ask me well why did this person vote for this big spending bill why what was their

00:03:13.120 justification or reason they gave you frankly when i talked to folks um their reason for voting yes was

00:03:18.820 often some niche issue that they cared about but that allowed us to go on a suboptimal path

00:03:24.340 rather than having i think the boldness and courage to confront our economic conditions what you think

00:03:29.580 warren yeah i mean i think look obviously everybody left of center thinks that the solution's more

00:03:34.080 spending more government the all they can all they want is more and republicans i go back this is kind

00:03:39.500 of a hobby i did a little bit of it over the break and look at members websites when they campaign

00:03:44.440 what do they say and virtually every republican you can research it they all say some version of

00:03:49.540 i want a smaller more accountable government and if you had one party that was for a smaller

00:03:54.500 government and one party that was for a bigger government you would think that sometimes you

00:03:58.460 would get a smaller government and sometimes you would get a bigger government but every congress

00:04:02.340 it grows so somebody's not telling the truth and i think the voting record outs it and i think that's

00:04:07.800 the thing go look at the voting record and send us the right reinforcements indeed and that growing

00:04:12.980 government is becoming increasingly more dangerous and that's where i want to really drive our conversation

00:04:18.000 today around the foreign intelligence surveillance act most people had never heard of fisa before until

00:04:24.360 the 2016 presidential contest when this authority was principally used to go after the trump campaign and to

00:04:31.920 spy on what would otherwise be politics and so dan if you were just talking to a regular person out

00:04:38.120 there and you were describing like what is fisa because a regular american might think i don't do

00:04:43.340 international business the farthest person i talked to you know away from is my my aunt who lives in the

00:04:49.500 midwest right how would you describe what it is and maybe how these authorities could be used against

00:04:54.800 regular folks so what they used against the trump campaign back in 2016 is a different part of fisa

00:05:01.000 than is before us this week this is what they call section 702 there's a big database they go abroad

00:05:07.440 uh and they vacuum up all of their communications and there's just massive database with you know

00:05:16.100 hundreds thousands of what they call selectors just people abroad and and sure it may be osama bin laden

00:05:22.760 or the the like but it may also be you know most of the people in the western governments and so

00:05:28.740 if you're or in you know corporate leaders or whatever so if you're an american citizen who's

00:05:34.360 having a business abroad it's a big connected global community but that means that americans data

00:05:40.040 is also in that database and so these backdoor searches the fbi has access to and what the and what

00:05:46.580 the study indicated in 20 what 2019 you go back and they were engaged in millions of violations in the

00:05:52.620 way they searched the database even in 2021 after their supposed reform efforts 278 000 i think was

00:05:59.980 the number of violations then and uh and and so it's just a you know it's an enormous backdoor

00:06:07.220 opportunity to look at americans data that is collected by our intel state and uh it and it's it's a

00:06:14.560 horrendous abuse of americans privacy and it seems to have been used against people on the right on the

00:06:19.600 left i mean you had it deployed against some of the blm rioters you had people who were just in

00:06:25.160 washington on january 6th kind of drawn into this fisa network and so warren you know you have been a

00:06:32.540 critic of a lot of these uh really you know constitutional violations that have been embedded

00:06:37.360 in the patriot act and that emerged out of that and really gone well beyond their original intent so

00:06:43.880 that system that dan described it would seem like in some circumstances you would want to keep an eye

00:06:49.660 on bad guys abroad who are not american citizens but these 287 000 violations the fact the fbi was

00:06:56.460 breaking the law 38 times an hour like you've been the thought leader on what needs to be done to fix

00:07:01.900 fisa so lay out how you fix fisa yeah so you think about the patriot act it was passed uh right after

00:07:08.880 9 11 it was an expansion of some fisa goes back to the 70s i think 78 but you know we we support the

00:07:15.480 foreign intelligence surveillance act we want to stop you know bad guys from harming american citizens

00:07:20.440 right there's a reason there's not a domestic surveillance act it's called the fourth amendment

00:07:25.560 right you you're not supposed to be able to get americans data unless you get a warrant or subpoena

00:07:31.500 with probable cause some justification as to where you're going and if you try these vast

00:07:37.040 sweeping searches in a normal case even if you're going after potentially really bad people you have

00:07:44.520 to have a probable cause and you have to present what you're going to search and why to get the

00:07:50.720 warrant and in this case they've already done the seizure they've collected all your stuff and then

00:07:55.880 they'll say on the back end well we're not searching it we're querying it and that's what they call it

00:08:01.020 they call it querying the database now anyone with a thesaurus handy or a reasonable grasp of

00:08:06.940 the english language will know that query means search right but they draw this distinction so

00:08:11.780 they go pull everything out of the database that's already been collected and then they say okay now

00:08:17.620 i've built everything that i want to get and i know exactly where it is in the database so let me go

00:08:22.660 get a warrant for that and so that's a complete corruption of our system of the constitution and when

00:08:28.680 you say well you know it really is to keep us safe well if men were angels right we wouldn't need

00:08:36.340 most of the government go back to you know the basic premise of how we even have a government if

00:08:42.000 if if don't hurt people and don't take their stuff was so easy to get along with kane would have never

00:08:46.640 killed abel and we wouldn't even need judges let alone prosecutors but now we know that human nature 1.00

00:08:52.740 is it's going to be corrupted and we know that the fbi is telling on themselves as to yeah we're doing

00:08:58.800 this wrong but trust us we're going to fix it and no we don't trust you we're going to do what the

00:09:04.600 constitution said is not to trust the federal government the whole point of the fourth amendment

00:09:08.880 and it's the most infringed in my opinion of the bill of rights is to limit the government's ability

00:09:14.380 to go after you in certain ways the the first amendments get five protections in it the second

00:09:20.460 is keeping bare arms the third's to give quarter to the government but the fourth is to protect you

00:09:25.760 from unreasonable searches and seizures it's a right to privacy not a right to secrecy so they can go

00:09:31.720 after it here they don't they don't even have to they've got the data and they're just gonna

00:09:35.460 keep doing it and frankly the the debate process that we're entering into right now says they're not

00:09:41.400 content with the current level of spying on americans they want to expand the ways that they can spy on

00:09:46.740 americans yeah so so i i do want to get to some of the ways that our colleagues even our colleagues in

00:09:52.280 the republican party are wanting to advance the authorities that we're worried about rub up against

00:09:57.500 our constitutional mores but but one fix just so that we're able to bullet point this is a warrant

00:10:03.940 requirement for u.s citizens but but you talked about the importance of the fourth amendment and one

00:10:09.860 of the things dan that we've worked on is ensuring that the fourth amendment is not for sale that the

00:10:15.300 government not utilize data brokers who are themselves commercially kept collecting all this

00:10:21.380 information right uh to then do an end run around the fourth amendment so maybe talk a little bit

00:10:26.620 about why that's an important part of of this fisa discussion you know and warren may be even better

00:10:32.260 suited to talk about it than me uh we've all we've passed in the judiciary committee where you and i serve

00:10:37.460 uh we've we've passed that uh bill through in fact it always has very broad bipartisan support some of

00:10:43.920 the farther left uh democrats uh actually joining this the idea that uh your data collected by virtue of

00:10:51.480 your interactions with google and facebook and all every social media company all sorts of other stuff

00:10:58.300 can be is assembled by data brokers and they can get you know a handful of pieces of information

00:11:05.520 they can tell exactly who you are what your preferences are and they data breakers uh brokers maintain

00:11:11.840 these massive warehouses of this data and it can be purchased well the federal government which

00:11:17.660 couldn't get any of that data without a warrant can go to data brokers and inquire it commercially

00:11:23.280 and and conduct surveillance on the entire population it is sick and uh warren so warren that's your bill

00:11:30.900 yeah so zo lofgren and i uh sponsored that in the house and it's called the fourth amendment's not

00:11:36.780 for sale it passed judiciary committee 38 to 1 how many times does jim jordan agree

00:11:41.820 with jerry nadler jerry nadler agree with jim norton pretty much never you've got me and zo lofgren

00:11:46.680 who was the one um hank johnson hank johnson oh wow we don't even know that's how he intended to vote

00:11:52.480 that really is extraordinary and that means i voted the same way as adam schiff

00:11:57.240 congratulations don't tell everybody please don't make that a clue but but but the it's that's worth

00:12:02.540 pausing over because everybody talks about we should have bipartisan accomplishment well that's as

00:12:07.200 bipartisan as you get and yet there's another part of both the democrat conference and the republican

00:12:12.100 conference which are the sort of the deep staters the intel uh advocates and and the bipartisanship

00:12:17.960 falls apart at that point it's one of the only issues left that doesn't break on normal party lines

00:12:22.840 and you know there's so there's no one person i think right now that the american public trusts on

00:12:30.440 politics that really across the political spectrum they would look at it whether it's in the news

00:12:35.260 or certainly in elected office that they would say oh i trust this one person but maybe when you look at

00:12:40.860 it and you you've got the range span you know from me to pramila jayapal from jordan to nadler from

00:12:47.440 mr bishop to sarah jacobs you know you to adam schiff you know the range is well we agree that we should

00:12:55.440 actually get a warrant we agree that you should stop buying data that you would otherwise need to

00:13:00.960 get a warrant or a subpoena for uh in circumventing the fourth amendment and i think hopefully the

00:13:06.400 country knows that this is how we protect our rights we might disagree on a gazillion other things and we

00:13:11.380 do but at least here you're saying this is being abused by our intelligence agencies and if it's going

00:13:17.180 to be allowed to continue to exist it should be reformed and so when we see that type of uh kind of

00:13:22.360 cross-partisan collaboration to try to improve this system it makes you think wow that might be

00:13:28.500 a real opportunity to make that change in the bill so we've got the underlying base text of this fisa

00:13:34.580 reform bill and we've identified two key fixes one a vote on a warrant requirement two the fourth

00:13:41.040 amendment is not for sale act my reports right now from the rules committee are that we're going to get

00:13:46.420 a vote on your amendment mr davidson on the warrant requirement but that we aren't going to get a vote

00:13:52.880 on the fourth amendment is not for sale act uh if if that is how our decision process is truncated

00:14:00.300 do you think that's a fair rule to proceed on well i don't like the rule the way it's going so let's go

00:14:06.160 back to the way we're here um judiciary is supposed to be the base text the judiciary committee bill that

00:14:12.860 passed out a committee passed out a committee 35 to 2 overwhelmingly bipartisan again um and it it had

00:14:21.260 get a warrant it had the fourth amendment's not for sale it had an end to a bounce collection so the

00:14:27.500 you know there were major reforms that were in the judiciary committee bill and the intel committee said oh

00:14:34.460 well we can't have that and we need to expand the surveillance yeah i want to i want to get to the

00:14:39.460 expansion first but so so the the the that process was blown up because intel wanted to do more so

00:14:45.840 the speaker in december pulled the judiciary committee bill and did a short-term reauthorization

00:14:52.180 till february or from december till april and then two months ago we were supposed to have this fight

00:14:59.540 mike turner the chairman of intel created an international incident to blow up the debate process

00:15:04.320 we were in rules committee where judiciary was presenting this unified front between jordan and

00:15:10.080 nadler uh the ranking democrat and the chairman of judiciary saying we agree we should do these

00:15:16.340 things and turner uh blew up the whole thing and wouldn't even come to rules committee to have the

00:15:22.260 debate and part of it was to avoid answering the question on the fourth amendment's not for sale

00:15:26.520 and so that process was rewarded this blowing up the process was rewarded by the speaker saying

00:15:33.640 okay fine until we'll take out the fourth amendment's not for sale provision and he's actively working

00:15:41.160 against the get a warrant pass and let's not forget mike johnson the current speaker was a member of

00:15:47.620 judiciary committee and had previously voted for a warrant requirement and for the fourth amendment's

00:15:53.540 not for sale now he's pulled the fourth amendment's not for sale and he's working this week with the whip

00:15:58.600 process against the warrant requirement so it's going to be a fake reform with a it's got a title but it

00:16:06.100 doesn't have content and i'm not sure there's one more fact that probably may not have gotten through

00:16:09.780 and that is that instead of being the judiciary base text the base text for the bill on the floor

00:16:14.640 is the intel committee's uh product well it's a compromise okay so what they did is they said the

00:16:19.900 things you guys agree on we'll put into the base text and the things you don't agree on you'll offer

00:16:24.680 amendments on yeah yeah well okay that was an agreement that agreements broke because they

00:16:29.680 said to the judiciary committee well except for that you can't put that thing in as an amendment

00:16:35.140 and that's the fourth amendment so that was another change to the terms that's the change i was talking

00:16:41.180 about over the last two months when turner blew up the rules committee uh that he was rewarded by

00:16:46.640 saying oh we're gonna cancel the deal yet again and go with a different product a different path

00:16:52.500 i think people are used to watching the republicans fight against the democrats but here you have

00:16:58.140 this unique issue where it's actually the judiciary committee with strong adherence to the constitution

00:17:04.300 the fourth amendment fighting against the intelligence committee and and dan maybe respond to what some

00:17:09.880 might say well gosh the intelligence committee this is an intelligence authority why should they not

00:17:14.640 be be given the deference on on that dispute well i mean frankly some of their arguments are

00:17:19.400 disingenuous so they they we've seen scheduled two or three times i've attended a couple of them we

00:17:24.340 can't talk about details of what's done in it but uh where you have these briefings classified briefings

00:17:29.740 you go down to the to the uh what do you call it i can't even think of the skiff uh sensitive

00:17:34.780 compartmentalized intelligence facility or something like that information and uh and and then some

00:17:40.400 people some bureaucrats from the intel agencies tell you these things and they're and frankly they're not

00:17:45.200 very persuasive and yet uh there's an intent there's and there's an attempt to sort of intimidate

00:17:51.380 people to say oh things are going to be horribly that go horribly wrong and you're going to be blamed

00:17:56.420 if you reform this and provide for people americans privacy and and one one argument that is constantly

00:18:01.920 made by mike turner the chairman of intel and this is he's and and others uh dan crenshaw is they say

00:18:07.460 well all this this 702 database is all lawfully collected and once law enforcement lawfully collects

00:18:13.700 information they routinely use it to look at other people well you have to understand in detail what

00:18:18.080 we're talking about intel is collecting this database under the rules that say intel works

00:18:24.380 abroad and they're supposed to be a firm wall they don't conduct domestic surveillance and these guys

00:18:30.560 are using the usual situation where if you insert someone when you're arresting them and you find

00:18:35.020 something in their pocket yeah that's that's that's fine you don't have to have a warrant for that it's

00:18:39.160 fine to do but in this case you've got intel information collected abroad and they're saying because

00:18:43.640 that's lawful for intel purposes they ought to be able to be able to go through it at at in any

00:18:49.660 you know without any limitations whatsoever or that you don't need to have a warrant requirement it's

00:18:54.300 a totally dishonest disingenuous argument those are the kinds of things that i think uh look at

00:19:01.360 tactics of the folks who are devoted to the intel state uh in in how we've dealt with this and and i think

00:19:08.240 it denigrates the unfairly denigrates the rights of americans to privacy and they ought to be able to

00:19:13.960 expect that from their government and we've talked about two of the antidotes right the warrant requirement

00:19:18.100 and the fourth amendment's not for sale act we get a vote on warrant we don't on fourth amendment not

00:19:22.380 for sale how do you think that vote's going to go do you think that we'll have a sufficient number of

00:19:26.800 democrats vote with us to to put a warrant requirement on the bill well i think we would

00:19:33.700 but here's what's gone on they've been working for months now to whip the votes and they're look i

00:19:39.760 still remember you know this guy who's a legend walter jones who's a member of congress when i first

00:19:44.140 got here rest his soul north carolinian yeah good north carolina guy and uh you know when i was a new

00:19:50.980 guy here there was something that passed the house like 420 something to seven and i thought it'll

00:19:56.540 help solve a problem be popular with the public passes the house isn't even partisan why in the

00:20:01.740 world won't the senate take this up walter and he said well i hate to be cynical but probably because

00:20:08.980 it would pass right and and i think that's the fear they don't want to allow a vote on the fourth

00:20:14.240 amendment's not for sale because it could pass so you're supporting the house and the senate so that

00:20:19.020 means they must not think that the warrant requirement on the fourth amendment will pass so we get a vote on

00:20:23.740 something they think won't pass we don't get a vote on something they think will correct all right

00:20:28.500 well now let's get to the dangerous expansion of these authorities that may be presented to votes for

00:20:33.740 us and the first deals with public wi-fi i don't think most americans believe that when they get on

00:20:39.520 a mcdonald's wi-fi or a public library wi-fi that they have consented to some new level of search into

00:20:46.380 all of their digital existence but i think as i'm hearing it now there's going to be an amendment

00:20:51.900 to essentially make the utilization of of public wi-fi an erosion of your constitutional protections

00:21:00.140 against uh against those unlawful searches and seizures either of you i'd love your your thoughts

00:21:05.120 on on that provision well if you go to the mcdonald's wi-fi in eaton ohio in a little rural

00:21:11.020 county with about 40 000 people in it and you use their wi-fi i'm pretty sure they're not targeting

00:21:16.640 foreigners there right not saying there aren't any foreigners there but the balance of it's not

00:21:22.300 foreigners and when they log on to the wi-fi there they're not logging on uh to do foreign 0.99

00:21:28.940 intelligence i'm not saying that would never happen in eaton ohio but normally it's because people want

00:21:34.820 to get better wi-fi than the cell service out there and it's faster than maybe what they got at home

00:21:39.400 they'll come in and hang out and use it well now mcdonald's if they want to still have wi-fi available

00:21:44.800 to the public they have to go to like you're opening up a bank account they got to know your

00:21:49.340 customer rule where they collect all this info who are you why are you using the internet who are you

00:21:54.420 using the internet with let us know more about you and tell us how that's foreign intelligence and

00:21:59.560 again this is where the jurisdictional line crosses intelligence is supposed to be on foreigners our

00:22:05.820 intelligence service collects on foreigners and american citizens that jurisdiction is judiciary

00:22:11.420 you're supposed to be protected by the fourth amendment do you think that'll pass dan um you

00:22:17.200 know i uh i don't know i they i understand that they they keep denying that it does that uh but i

00:22:25.380 can't see the language having been totally clarified well it's just hard to take their word for it when

00:22:29.940 they're breaking the law 38 times an hour on their existing authorities but and yet that's what we're

00:22:34.340 doing that's what their the entire picture is from the intel perspective in terms of the amendments

00:22:39.760 they want to offer take their word for it why do we not need a for a um you know a warrant requirement

00:22:46.340 why should that amendment be defeated well because it might leave us open to attack in some way and

00:22:51.060 because uh the fbi has done all the reforms that are necessary well the evidence would suggest there's

00:22:57.540 no well there's no basis in evidence to conclude that and there is an evidence goes the other direction

00:23:02.820 in terms of the previous tests and and particularly on this wi-fi matter i worry about someone making a

00:23:08.680 foreign contact that they don't even know that they're making right if someone is utilizing public

00:23:13.360 library wi-fi and they go there to get customer support for their washing machine and it just so

00:23:19.000 happens that they're connected to some online chat center to help them with customer service and some

00:23:24.540 other person who works at that chat center and india is connected to a a dangerous organization 0.64

00:23:30.520 there are so many opportunities for people who have no intention to even uh subject themselves to this

00:23:37.300 spying even a lot of email accounts of the data servers or the data the servers for a lot of email

00:23:42.920 services and for some of the search engines are globalized and so you may just be checking your

00:23:48.560 email account and the server is now routed through another country and that makes every bit of

00:23:54.300 collection on that email account permissible once it's expanded i'm also understanding that that

00:24:00.720 chairman turner will be offering an amendment to expand the scope of faiza to have anything to do

00:24:06.920 with narcotics or the narcotics trade uh what's your perspective on that amendment well i think again

00:24:12.220 it's the question of what is the purpose of the collection of this database and if you begin with

00:24:16.660 that origin then you generally you turn it into a generalized uh surveillance tool to uh to monitor a

00:24:24.180 particular form of criminal activity and domestically you've violated the essence of that uh firm wall

00:24:34.300 that's described and and i i just think i just think it can be abused right and left yeah i mean

00:24:39.260 no one is sympathetic to drug dealers but at the same time if you're going to get rid of the fourth

00:24:44.000 amendment in the digital atmosphere for drug dealers why not just get rid of the fourth amendment

00:24:48.300 altogether in narcotics cases like there there's a reason we believe these things and i'm worried that

00:24:54.560 we're bifurcating our rights from irl to our digital existence 100 you look at look there are all kinds of

00:25:02.020 heinous crimes i mean why not go after pedophiles i mean why subject that to the fourth amendment that's

00:25:06.500 a horrible crime so uh they're still protected by the fourth amendment uh against uh unlawful search

00:25:12.660 and seizure and and so i've got a bill to address the problem they say that they want to address

00:25:18.120 which would escalate collection on cartels to a tier one threat so you could collect intelligence on them

00:25:23.860 the same way we were collecting on al-qaeda or isis or north korea or iran they would be a true enemy of 0.99

00:25:32.000 our country and the cartels are the cartels control the black market in america largely for the black

00:25:37.920 market drugs but also sex trafficking human trafficking labor trafficking all the smuggling across the border

00:25:44.200 of all kinds of things and uh and a lot of the money laundering is done facilitated by these guys

00:25:50.200 so you could already do that under existing authorities if you wanted to uh we can't get

00:25:57.000 them to go after the cartels and prioritize it we can't get them to do it while you're not going to

00:26:01.260 the top of the food chain to the cartels and using the powers you have to do that in a legitimate way

00:26:05.640 they want to open up this vast new repository of searchable data against americans for whatever

00:26:11.680 crimes they may be involved that involved with it that turn out to be narcotics yeah well i mean i i think

00:26:16.720 about just the innocent person who maybe they they bought a house that had been used improperly in

00:26:21.940 some time past and all of a sudden they have no fourth amendment protections based on a review of

00:26:26.900 all of their their digital communications um it could truly be innocent people that could be caught in

00:26:31.780 this so you know warren you really are one of the recognized experts on the stuff you have been since i

00:26:36.280 got to congress when i got here i thought the fbi were the good guys and and we've seen uh we've seen

00:26:42.820 a lot of good there but we've also seen a lot of bad uh if the way this shakes out is that we don't

00:26:48.900 get a vote on the important fourth amendment protections but there is a vote authorized on

00:26:54.180 these expansions wi-fi and narcotics and assuming those were to pass like do you think that that our

00:27:01.660 liberties would be more protected under the current system or under a system contemplated by

00:27:07.300 uh the base bill as amended with these expansions of fisa authorities i mean why would we be expanding

00:27:13.980 something that's already abused and look uh there are ways to do this that are different like i said

00:27:19.460 you could focus on the cartels and collect against the cartels if you like and you know the idea that

00:27:25.060 we would allow something that is known to be abused to continue to exist without real reform

00:27:32.260 and let's face it uh if it passes the way that you just stated it's simply a placebo it's say oh i took

00:27:39.880 medicine it's supposed to be better no it has no effect it's worse than not taking medicine you're

00:27:46.180 wasting your time taking something because it gives people the cover to say oh i did something no what you

00:27:52.360 did is actually make your condition worse because you didn't even treat the underlying problem which is

00:27:57.820 the abuse by these agencies of authorities that they were trusted with what happened to mike johnson

00:28:03.740 i mean i never would have thought we would have gotten here dan we've been on the judiciary committee

00:28:07.520 with mike johnson he sat next to me for seven years on on that committee frankly mike johnson makes

00:28:12.940 the arguments that we've made in this discussion probably better than we do yeah in in debate when he

00:28:19.340 has the opportunity to question senior officials at doj or fbi he often focused as a committee member

00:28:26.120 on fisa and on fisa abuses and i told the speaker my friend that we made him speaker so that the

00:28:33.300 speakership would be more like mike johnson we didn't make mike johnson speaker so that mike johnson would

00:28:38.880 be more like the speakership and and unfortunately on this issue we've seen the speaker make 180 degree

00:28:46.020 reversal and if what he has encountered from an information standpoint as speaker was so persuasive

00:28:52.720 that it would cause him to make a reversal then i would think he would be obligated to convince his

00:28:58.060 colleagues from the judiciary committee why and i have not been drawn into any of that discussion i

00:29:03.200 don't know you have if you have but as we look at our friend who was our brother in arms on these

00:29:08.480 things now wearing the jersey of the other side what do you attribute that to um i guess the power of

00:29:15.200 the dc cartel i it is very it's disheartening you know a lot of number of us have been sympathetic to

00:29:22.760 speaker johnson taking on uh that role in midstream a lot of things that already been decided in terms

00:29:30.200 of spending bills and so forth that kind of left him with not much maneuvering room and so if more

00:29:35.740 bad stuff on spending had to come through like the mini bus there's some sympathy there it's hard to

00:29:41.080 have a lot of sympathy for this one and i'm i fear that it really uh jeopardizes his um uh his his

00:29:50.000 support out in the country among conservatives who are counting on him as a conservative beginning to

00:29:56.000 change this place it's disheartening to me um i i don't i i don't understand it i mean i know what

00:30:03.320 mike johnson has always thought and to your point i mentioned earlier they take us down the skiff and sort

00:30:09.660 of do these dog and punishes they're not persuasive if you're a critical thinker uh they are not

00:30:14.920 persuasive in fact as it begins sort of being clear that it's not persuasive mike turner sort

00:30:19.700 of takes over and keeps talking until everybody falls asleep and so we know what those briefings

00:30:25.820 have been if if mike johnson has gotten some double secret briefing that has turned him around as you

00:30:32.160 say maybe they can't give that briefing in all of its content to all members of congress because it

00:30:37.940 would risk sources or uh or methods or the like but they're bound to be able to do better than the

00:30:45.340 briefings that you and i have received they're bound to be able to do better and and i'm just not seeing

00:30:50.880 that this government can't operate predicated on secret information of eight people yeah plus maybe

00:30:59.040 the president that can't that can't happen um and uh so i i just uh i i don't it's it's inexplicable

00:31:07.920 that he's uh taking the position that he is under all those circumstances as i explained yeah i final

00:31:13.260 question on this uh to you warren you've talked to more members than probably anybody on the democrat

00:31:18.960 side on the republican side what arguments move people what arguments get folks more on our side

00:31:25.560 uh of of supporting civil liberties because we've seen from chairman turner and the intel community

00:31:32.060 when they talk about the open border and the threat of isis that seems to motivate people to uh i think

00:31:38.340 abandon the position that the three of us hold so what what's our best argument well i think the

00:31:43.280 the base premise is when you personalize it and you talk to people about you know let's take a look at

00:31:49.340 your browser history or your amazon account you know we all like we go let's say most everybody's

00:31:55.140 probably gone to amazon they bought something we like when we go to amazon and they kind of know us

00:32:00.100 and they say oh well since you bought this or read that you might want to look at this that's helpful

00:32:04.680 but they shouldn't be able to sell that information to somebody else without our consent without our

00:32:10.960 informed consent not some weaseley five point font over 400 pages but specifically no they could say

00:32:18.660 how many of you know whatever book uh you know firebrand has sold but they can't say whether warren

00:32:24.940 and dan bought firebrand you know and that's where it becomes personal and yeah you you might need to

00:32:32.040 know that for a legitimate purpose as a law enforcement agent and if you need to know that

00:32:37.140 about a foreigner that's probably fine but if you need to know it about an american citizen there's a

00:32:42.280 process it's it's well established and it was so important that it was made our fourth amendment

00:32:48.180 and it's held up by jurisprudence and the disappointing thing is not just that the executive

00:32:53.360 branch is abusing this authority or that the courts article three uh courts haven't held that it's

00:33:00.260 unconstitutional because it is it's that our own body hasn't done our duty which we swore to do

00:33:07.440 to support and defend this constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and i will tell you

00:33:12.880 one of the best speeches for people to look back to is dwight eisenhower's fail world address

00:33:17.440 and he cautioned against two things one is the military industrial complex and the scientific

00:33:24.180 technical elite you think about the growth of the military police state and you think about like

00:33:29.300 covid the technical elite and why did he caution against them because he believed that they would

00:33:35.180 potentially put their own interests and the truth at odds with the american interest and

00:33:41.080 i think it was somewhat prophetic and i think the challenge for our time is to get a government

00:33:47.080 that once again is small enough to fit back in the constitution you know this freedom's been

00:33:51.560 surrendered it's rarely reclaimed and if we don't do it it's not going to be we have to make that demand

00:33:57.140 no great great point to end our discussion on these spying authorities on next week i expect that

00:34:04.540 we'll be facing a ukraine bill of some kind and i recall one of the high watermarks for those of us who

00:34:10.620 really adhere to an america first perspective was your legislation warren that said before sending

00:34:16.180 more money to ukraine we should at least see a plan we should at least have like reduced to writing

00:34:21.900 any plan from the administration that defines victory or that states our objectives and uh you know

00:34:30.180 that has really morphed now into a uniparty desire to send funds without those things so what do you

00:34:38.080 expect is coming on ukraine how are you going to look at it through the lens of kind of what were

00:34:42.600 your your demands of uh of folks previously yeah i think there's like 10 of us that have not voted

00:34:48.180 for a dime for ukraine probably 30 of us are right here and uh if you look at it um you know rationally

00:34:56.260 if until you tell me the mission what is it you're trying to accomplish how could i possibly tell you

00:35:01.100 what resources i would support giving you and when you look back like i found that when the state

00:35:08.320 department was pushing to do this endless war in afghanistan they changed the mission in 2004 from

00:35:15.080 going after bin laden and the terrorists that attacked us on 9-11 to nation building in afghanistan

00:35:20.920 and there was an op-ed in the washington post by this uh envoy uh that the state department

00:35:27.140 appointed and he said as much as it takes as long as it takes where have we heard that for that is

00:35:32.420 what they say the mission is in in ukraine well as much as it takes as long as it takes to do what

00:35:38.680 they never get around to defining it and that was the whole point uh we did get 129 people we went

00:35:44.960 from 10 to last summer we got to 129 and i suspect we'll do better this time even amongst republicans and

00:35:52.440 so i hope that we can expect some outcome but look there's clear bipartisan support for more wars in

00:35:58.460 more places uh they're more committed to funding ukraine so i think the speaker is going to move

00:36:03.940 another omnibus essentially uh that funds ukraine funds israel funds the pacific and fails to do

00:36:11.820 anything about defending america and what i've asked them to do is if you feel that you have to put

00:36:16.260 something on the floor give us one rule bill that requires a recorded vote four separate recorded

00:36:22.320 votes one to defend ukraine one to defend israel one to defend pacific but a fourth one to defend

00:36:29.800 america and the sad reality of where we're at this congress is the vote that would get the lowest

00:36:34.740 total and may not even pass is the bill to defend america it's it's um so reflective of a loss of focus

00:36:43.840 it seems you know that you talked about what people are saying out there and and i don't know what

00:36:48.060 you guys are hearing but that's another one on which i i mean every once in a while someone who's got

00:36:53.520 uh an unusual perspective or a particular interest in ukraine will come up and and and say they want

00:37:00.340 that but it's overwhelmingly the other way and it is another uh example of the uh of mike johnson

00:37:10.300 totally reversing course on something he he pledged so we you know he married up remember a number of us

00:37:17.000 were offended at the prospect that uh we'd we have we have to trade off ukraine funding to get a

00:37:25.280 complete border protection package in the united states but now it's the the u.s border that's going

00:37:31.820 to be apparently thrown aside in order to just do ukraine and these other uh other foreign aid matters

00:37:39.460 unpaid for uh more money borrowed from china to uh to do that and i you know what it what it leaves

00:37:48.660 you wondering about is what is the republican voter how do you motivate the republican voter to send a

00:37:53.020 republican majority back to congress and i think it may be sufficient but the but the only answer that

00:37:59.280 i can think of at this point is that donald trump needs to get elected president and we can't afford

00:38:04.500 for him to be bedeviled by a hakeem jeffrey's house of representatives but there's not much else

00:38:10.300 left and i i don't i think that's unforgivable i i don't know how the folks where i come from

00:38:16.340 and where i have the opportunities to talk about it always confront me with the you guys should shut

00:38:22.340 her down until they fix the border yeah i'm i'm not a cheerleader for shutdowns i'm not and i don't

00:38:28.700 think any of us are but we also have to understand leverage and i think that the great sin of our

00:38:34.000 majority has been the misunderstanding of how to utilize that leverage for some of the outcomes

00:38:38.580 we're seeking warren you've also been one of the leaders on war powers uh you talked about the

00:38:43.760 co-mingling of this ukraine issue with israel with what's going on in the pacific uh reports now are that

00:38:49.940 we're going to be using our united states military to build a floating barge off the coast of gaza do you

00:38:55.960 worry that we're setting ourselves up for some sort of gulf of tonkin moment where we're creating a

00:39:00.660 soft target in an environment where we can't really control the conditions to ensure people's safety

00:39:05.920 yeah i mean you know the sad reality is this wouldn't be the first time america funded both

00:39:10.560 sides of a war in the middle east actually usually we do yeah so look joe biden wants to have it both

00:39:16.620 ways and say i'm for israel but i'm also for hamas uh putting a port into gaza i would love to see

00:39:24.120 the classified briefing where there's some rational reason to do that that it's crazy uh that we're

00:39:29.920 going to put a port into gaza they still have american hostages let alone over a hundred israeli

00:39:34.400 hostages so the the the leadership in gaza hamas could end the fighting by simply giving up the

00:39:42.220 hostages and surrendering the people responsible for the 10-7 massacre and instead of uniting behind

00:39:48.160 our ally israel or frankly sending them more american tax dollars that the biden administration

00:39:53.560 will simply use as leverage to try to get parliamentary elections according to chuck

00:39:59.040 schumer to force bb out or you know to say well let's enter into a two-state solution and reward

00:40:05.380 the attackers of 10-7 nothing the biden administration is doing on foreign policy is coherent

00:40:11.240 if you're going to put american interests first so you know dan i think you're right but i think you do

00:40:16.280 need to force a debate so that you at least consider issues separately instead of in a giant omnibus

00:40:22.280 fashion we are to have single subject bills particularly related to this issue and for the

00:40:27.260 reasons you just identified these conflicts are so fundamentally different you've got great power

00:40:31.900 competition in the pacific you've got largely an urban war going on in gaza and then in uh in europe

00:40:40.240 you've got a massive power up against uh ukraine and i worry you know there you you could see the

00:40:46.480 ukrainians run out of men before they run out of bullets you know dan this this nuance that

00:40:51.160 warren's described in terms of how we ought to proceed forward do you think that can lead to

00:40:55.900 better outcomes and better decisions or do we sort of get to the same place of funding all of it

00:41:00.680 just in smaller bites rather than than one big bill well i mean and when you've seen the willingness

00:41:05.660 of the speaker and other republicans to depart from you know views that you know it's almost amazing

00:41:14.460 they'd be willing to go to voters with what they're already doing i don't know that segregating

00:41:19.240 out individual votes will do anything more than perhaps create a record for the future but i don't

00:41:24.160 know that it's going to actually bring any discipline to the decision making of the republican conference

00:41:29.360 in the house well we appreciate you both joining us uh this evening we've got votes in just a few

00:41:34.340 moments and so we've got to head back to capitol hill and if you're still watching and haven't

00:41:38.540 gotten out the sharp blade in the warm bath we appreciate it and i hope that you'll leave us a five

00:41:43.600 star rating on your listening platform of choice and make sure you share this content it's important that you

00:41:48.600 know the details and the specific votes that are happening and even more important it's important

00:41:53.400 you know what motivates those votes why certain things come under consideration and certain things

00:41:58.960 don't and that drives our choices here will be mine i will vote against the rule to proceed on the

00:42:04.900 fisa bill if that rule does not allow us to have a vote on the fourth amendment is not not for sale act

00:42:10.580 by congressman davidson and congresswoman lofgren and if it instead of doing that creates all these votes

00:42:16.300 to expand the authorities that have been violated count on me to vote against proceeding onto that

00:42:21.820 legislation unless we at least have the opportunity to get votes on the things that will fix the problem

00:42:27.200 if speaker johnson is unwilling to fix fisa we are left wondering what he is indeed willing to fix

00:42:34.140 we didn't fix the budget we didn't fix the border and now the very authorities that we saw

00:42:40.680 weaponized against president trump are are getting enhancements rather than the reforms that are so

00:42:46.260 desperately needed we'll keep fighting i'm grateful to my friends make sure that you follow them we've

00:42:51.740 got their information on the screen and we'll be back soon roll the credits

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The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - April 09, 2024

Episode 163 LIVE： The Illegal Spying Agenda (feat. Reps. Dan Bishop & Warren Davidson) - Firebrand with Matt Gaetz

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