In this episode, we interview three active duty service members of the US military. They talk about their experiences in the face of the Obama administration's anti-vaccination policies and how they have impacted their ability to serve their country.
00:10:32.500I did HPSP scholarship, which is to pay for medical school.
00:10:35.580Then I went to residency at Fort Benning, and I completed a family medicine residency there.
00:10:40.660And I was stationed in a couple places, went to Alaska, and that's when COVID kind of exploded all around us.
00:10:46.700And I was the only doctor that volunteered to go out into the COVID tent, if you will, the COVID clinic.
00:10:52.360And for a month and a half of being out in that clinic, I did not diagnose a single case of COVID.
00:10:58.240And are you able to practice medicine now in the Army?
00:11:01.140No, so that leads me to where I am stationed now.
00:11:03.180I went to Fort Huachuca to be the medical director.
00:11:05.640I was their first pick, and they were my first pick.
00:11:08.020And then after a month of work, I was suspended for granting medical exemptions to soldiers who do not want to get the shot.
00:11:14.240So since September 13th, I have not been in medical practice, and I'm in threat of losing my license in Texas.
00:11:22.760Also at this institution, ivermectin has been banned for off-label use.
00:11:30.040And it was not a medical doctor and not someone licensed to practice medicine.
00:11:34.400So this person that did this is practicing medicine without a license.
00:11:38.060Well, America is certainly not stronger when people who are engaged in the provision of care to our service members are in any way treated unfairly.
00:11:48.780And let me go now to you, Captain Carr.
00:11:51.360Talk to us a little bit about your service for the United States Air Force.
00:11:55.460Yeah, so I've been in the United States Air Force for about nine years now.
00:13:39.580They're not allowed to fly because they're unvaccinated.
00:13:42.060And the irony here is they've actually had to fly for vaccinated members who have had to call out sick.
00:13:47.880And so it's, you know, members are feeling it across the force.
00:13:50.760Let's bring in Master Sergeant Nick Cupper.
00:13:55.260You know, Master Sergeant, one of the things that concerned me in an investigation that my office ran into the United States Navy
00:14:01.500is that when people submitted requests for religious accommodations, they were often met in response by a form letter,
00:14:09.360which to me indicated that an individual review of people's claim, how this decision was grounded in faith or scripture, wasn't really made.
00:14:21.140Do you have any observations about the process of requesting a religious accommodation and how the Air Force looks at those?
00:14:33.380I've seen hundreds of denied religious accommodation requests to include denied appeal requests.
00:14:40.080I've seen a handful of the approved ones, and all of them start with the premise that the government has such a strong interest in vaccinating us
00:14:49.760that while they determine all of our religious beliefs are to be sincerely held,
00:14:55.460they determine that even as strongly as our beliefs are, they're not as strong as the government's desire and need to vaccinate all of us.
00:15:02.860Even in situations such as my own, where I currently have no restrictions on me as an unvaccinated member at my location,
00:15:10.580I don't have to wear a mask, I don't have to weekly test, I don't have to do any social distancing.
00:15:16.220My life at my job is the exact same as any vaccinated members, and I'm not unique in that scenario right now.
00:15:23.140But the only approvals they've been doing that I've been able to see and that court documents have shown
00:15:28.060are for people who are already on terminal leave, already in their final months, where they won't return to a base.
00:15:34.300In fact, the approval specifically says that they are only approving it because they will not return to a base.
00:15:40.320If the member's not returning to their duty station ever, that's not an accommodation.
00:15:45.440I'm here talking with three service members, active duty in the United States military,
00:15:49.660who are dealing with the realities of vaccine mandates.
00:15:53.060And, you know, one thing that we've got to be really concerned about in the Congress and on the Armed Services Committee
00:15:59.500is whether or not these mandates affect readiness and our ability to do certain things.
00:16:05.000And I believe it was Captain Carr who said, you know, that she had observed circumstances
00:16:09.780where there were impacts from some of the changes in the fighting force as a result of these mandates.
00:16:17.360Is there any advice that the three of you would give a member of Congress about how mandates affect readiness specifically?
00:16:25.520So if we're talking about readiness, I feel like I've got a pretty strong grasp on that one.
00:16:30.500And that's actually the main reason for all the denials of the religious accommodations is we need a ready force.
00:16:36.440And they're absolutely right as far as we do need a ready force.
00:16:39.020That's the whole point of our military, to be ready for anything that might come our way.
00:16:42.300However, according to the DOD's own numbers that are released publicly, to date, we've only lost 95 service members due to COVID.
00:16:50.580Now, every single death is a very sad, tragic loss.
00:16:54.780But if we're looking at it from a logical perspective, we've lost 95.
00:16:58.200At the same time, we've already kicked out over 3,200 service members for not taking the COVID vaccine.
00:17:04.460So if readiness is really the issue, 95 versus 3,200 is a significant difference.
00:17:11.480And from my perspective, and I don't speak for the DOD, but from my perspective, I'd say 3,200 is the bigger readiness issue with thousands more behind them.
00:17:19.740Sir, if I can jump in, the irony there, too, is in the Air Force, you know, we were given a pathway to voluntarily separate.
00:17:30.000Well, a lot of members are finding that when you submit a voluntary separation application, they're coming back denied, saying that we can't lose you.
00:17:45.860Can you not stand to lose us, or are you going to try and force us out anyway?
00:17:48.480Well, I believe that we ought to require a review of how these mandates have affected readiness.
00:17:54.800And it's my belief, though I would never want to prejudge any outcome, that driving people out of the military doesn't make our force stronger.
00:18:04.840Major Sigilov, one of the things that an investigation I conducted into some activities at West Point showed that when people were resistant to some of the desires of DOD,
00:18:17.740that there was a tremendous amount of retaliation against service members.
00:18:22.160Are you aware of any circumstance where, because of a view someone's held or because of someone performing their duties for DOD, that they were retaliated against?
00:18:32.380Yes, and I want to make it clear that this is protected communication right now.
00:18:38.000And I am personally being retaliated against.
00:18:40.460I tried to commit felony crimes to CID, and my present for reporting those crimes was getting a negative counseling statement, where I had to write about Article 94.
00:18:54.680And Article 94 is mutiny and sedition with a max penalty of death.
00:18:58.200That is very threatening to me, and that's the very fact of writing an Article 9 or any sort of negative counseling statement against me for trying to report a crime is also a crime under UCMJ.
00:19:10.740And the man that did that carries a longer than four-inch blade knife everywhere he goes on post in the hospital, in the clinic, which is also a felony.
00:19:22.320There is a nurse in the building that put in a 15-6 commander's investigation, she put my HIPAA information in her sworn statement.
00:19:31.460There is another nurse in the building that put an overheard, privileged, patient-physician conversation into a sworn statement.
00:19:43.460She was in another room and heard me talking on the phone and put that in a sworn statement against me.
00:19:49.460There is an unbelievable amount of retaliation happening.
00:19:54.060I recently had some of my charts in Alaska opened up to see if I was guilty of malpractice.
00:20:00.700They found I was guilty of malpractice.
00:20:02.960And these are people that haven't liked me for a long time because my thoughts and ideas have not changed.
00:20:08.100They've been pretty stable ever since the start of this in regards to the shot.
00:20:13.000If you don't want to get it, don't get it.
00:20:14.880If you want to get it, fine, go ahead.
00:20:16.920But they've opened up my charts, and they've claimed that I'm guilty of malpractice.
00:20:21.500And now they have also suspended me and put a hit against my license, which will go to Texas.
00:20:26.680That sounds like some of the most intense and severe tools that the medical profession has to bring against anyone.
00:20:36.740You know, Captain, I wanted to go to you and ask, there is a dynamic that plays out sometimes here in Washington where the military leaders come forward and they say,
00:20:44.540well, the rate, the number, the percentage of people being vaccinated is increasing.
00:22:18.820She was threatened with jail time if she didn't sign it.
00:22:20.880And she got a general discharge with a misconduct code characterization.
00:22:25.780Her only crime or offense was not getting the COVID shot.
00:22:30.340Why would any organization try to trick someone into a path regarding their career that would seemingly be a lose-lose for both the military and the service member?
00:22:42.380I mean, are we looking at a purposeful purge, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at?
00:22:48.460Something very concerning to me is, if you are a believer and you are listening to this podcast, you need to understand that God-fearing service members are being intentionally purged from the services.
00:23:01.160And when I became a plaintiff in the lawsuit that we're in, initially, I did not feel that I should be forced to apply for religious exemption.
00:23:09.140And there are many service members in my situation who felt the same way, because we did not, and we still don't believe, that there is a legal mandate, that there is an FDA-approved vaccine.
00:23:21.900But the blessings that have come through this is that our religious convictions are much stronger, because we've seen through the Liberty Council lawsuits that this is a religious purge.
00:23:31.440That the people who are being discriminated against hold religious convictions and are people of faith.
00:23:37.920Yeah. Major, did you have something to add to that?
00:23:42.580Anyone who would disobey an unlawful order is being purged out of the military.
00:23:48.120And there is a shadow policy in place that is protecting all of these people enforcing the shadow policy.
00:23:55.540We've all put in IG complaints, and they've all fallen on deaf ears.
00:23:59.120And I have evidence that what's going on where I am is directly against Secretary of Defense policy, which is also, Secretary of Defense policy is also in line with the law that's been in place since 2003.
00:24:09.280And I have been suspended, and there's been no repercussions.
00:24:13.980I'm Congressman Matt Gaetz here, joined by three active duty members of our military sharing their observations and experiences with the vaccine mandate.
00:24:22.080And, you know, Master Sergeant Kupfer, one of the oversight responsibilities of Congress is to ensure that our laws are being faithfully executed,
00:24:31.400and that we're responsive to conditions as they exist in the world.
00:24:35.080And when the coronavirus vaccine mandate was announced by Secretary Austin, we had a number of statements from members of Congress regarding their reaction to that.
00:24:47.000And really, you know, while no one here speaks for the DOD, you're all expressing your First Amendment right to petition your government, and I'm a government official.
00:24:54.220I want to really understand from you what you expect of your representatives and lawmakers in the face of this decision by DOD.
00:25:04.280What should the Congress be doing to be doing right by the men and women who wear the uniform?
00:25:10.420Well, Congressman, what I would like to see, and I think I could probably speak for my two partners here,
00:25:17.480is I would like to see Congress and the government hold the DOD accountable to the law.
00:25:22.840The law states that any emergency use product, whether it be a vaccine, a test, or otherwise, cannot be mandated to any service member without letting the service member know you have the right to refuse it.
00:25:36.940Unfortunately, and I don't want to suppose malicious intent or anything, but the fact on the ground is,
00:25:43.780there has been no FDA-approved vaccine available to service members since the beginning of the mandate.
00:25:51.820Now, the Secretary of Defense's memo specifically says that we will only be mandated to take fully approved, fully licensed, and labeled vaccines.
00:26:00.060At the time, the memo, Comirnaty was the only one.
00:26:02.720Now you have spike facts as an approved one.
00:26:04.520The problem is, and we have ample evidence, recordings from Pfizer, recordings from the FDA, documents from the CDC,
00:26:12.760that all say Comirnaty has not been shipped.
00:26:20.180I mean, my base specifically, I have multiple email correspondence over months where my base immunologist agrees we only have emergency use vaccine.
00:26:28.320So, whether it's malicious intent or not, every single service member since the day of the mandate who has been mandated to take a vaccine
00:26:35.720has been illegally mandated to take an emergency use vaccine.
00:26:39.100And it's all predicated upon one memo written by Dr. Terry Adarim.
00:26:44.020That memo mistakes what the FDA says about an interchangeability between the emergency use vaccine and the fully approved vaccine.
00:26:52.100The FDA was attempting to say it's only medically interchangeable, but they had a footnote that specifically pointed out that they were two legally distinct vaccines with certain differences.
00:27:04.320This memo written by Dr. Terry Adarim says that those two vaccines, the emergency use and the fully approved one,
00:27:10.940because the DOD knew they didn't have the approved one on hand,
00:27:14.120she said in there that they will be used both interchangeably to meet the mandate.
00:27:18.840And every doctor, every commander has been going off of that.
00:27:23.240And so, every time we file an IG complaint or we complain up to our commander,
00:27:27.340and you can't blame our commander, they're low level.
00:27:29.660You know, they don't control the entire DOD.
00:27:31.520They're just doing what they're told, and I understand that.
00:27:34.220But when we complain up, everyone gets referred to that one memo that is an unlawful order in and of itself.
00:27:40.060If for no other reason than the fact that that order takes into account in no way that the fact that these vials of vaccine are not labeled appropriately as the Secretary of Defense has required.
00:27:51.800So, Dr. Terry Adarim's memo that she wrote is unlawful.
00:27:56.760And I believe they knew that because they routed another memo a few weeks later for signature that they ended up not signing.
00:28:03.720Mr. Gilbert Cisneros was requested to sign it.
00:28:06.960It would have effectively just said, hey, we have to follow the law.
00:28:09.940If there's an emergency use vaccine and the member wants to take a fully approved one, you have to allow them before you punish them.
00:28:14.820And what ended up happening is all the services got their chance to comment on whether they thought that should exist or not.
00:28:22.260And in the Air Force's comments specifically, they effectively said, we've already been discharging people.
00:28:27.480We've already been punishing people under the auspices that this was legal.
00:28:31.440If we have to now have this new memo that proves that what we did was illegal, it's going to cause a lot of headache.
00:29:33.960The bad news is that if the vote were held on those amendments today, it would fail.
00:29:39.940It would fail because the majority party would oppose it and even some in my party would oppose it.
00:29:44.820And so I want to get your advice in this section of our interview about how you would go about persuading someone
00:29:51.260who believes in these mandates maybe to reflect on some of the insights that you've shared.
00:29:57.180And I'm going to present to you, this is an August 9, 2021 statement from United States Representative Mike Rogers of Alabama,
00:30:05.240who's the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee.
00:30:07.840And he says, in part, today, Secretary Austin announced plans to require all members of the military to be vaccinated against COVID-19 starting in mid-September
00:30:18.160or upon licensure by the Food and Drug Administration, whichever comes first.
00:30:23.980He continues, vaccines protect our men and women, many of whom live in cramped and crowded conditions from the spread of disease while at home or deployed across the globe.
00:30:36.540Our adversaries will take advantage of everything they can over us.
00:30:40.660We must not allow COVID-19 to be a hindrance of our force.
00:30:44.520Secretary Austin earlier confirmed that as of mid-July, over 70% of active-duty troops had received at least one vaccine shot.
00:30:53.800That is encouraging news, and I hope that number reaches 100% quickly.
00:30:59.780I also want to encourage President Biden to work with the FDA to approve the vaccine as soon as it's safe to do so.
00:34:30.720But the data that's available for COVID, you know, it shows unequivocally, with the exception of a very small study out of Kentucky that the CDC posted with maybe 235 participants,
00:34:43.360it shows unequivocally that natural immunity, especially if you can prove you actually have it, is better than the shot alone.
00:34:49.460I mean, even today, we just learned that Vice President Harris got COVID only 25 days after her fourth shot.
00:34:55.640That doesn't seem like a very effective vaccine to me.
00:34:57.980But if you look at the numbers of this, and I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but Walgreens, you know, they're one of the biggest vaccinators we have in this country.
00:35:07.240You know, there's Walgreens on every corner.
00:35:08.560They actually have a website where they list all the positive cases by percent based on how many shots a person has, whether it's zero shots, one, two, three, whatever.
00:35:19.240If you look at their data, and it's up-to-date data, you're seeing that the positivity rate for the unvaccinated member is far lower than anyone else.
00:35:28.400One shot, two shot, three shots, doesn't matter.
00:35:30.180Which, that directly speaks to natural immunity, because at this point, there are very few people in our country, or in the world for that matter, that haven't already had COVID.
00:35:39.220Me specifically, I've gone and taken eight different antibody tests now, and the most recent one I just took was last week, 15 months after I had infection, and I'm still reading off the chart on the test.
00:35:49.860My base immunologist even wrote me a letter of endorsement for my appeal, stating that I am immunized.
00:35:57.100And what we're going to have here is we have an all-or-none solution, which is not the right solution.
00:36:03.700So, if I were to talk to another member of Congress, if I were going to try to convince them, first off, I would come to them with compassion.
00:36:10.320I wouldn't come to them from a stance of anger or a stance of sadness.
00:36:27.680Unfortunately, this isn't a miracle cure everyone looked for.
00:36:31.220And with the variants changing, with the waning efficacy and everything else, and, I mean, just the myriad of data, it's clearly not the cure it was.
00:36:40.200If you look at the Air Force alone, from the date the mandate started until today, the Air Force has seen a 400% increase in COVID deaths, whereas the United States, as a general population, has only seen a 58% increase in COVID deaths.
00:36:54.940But at the same point, the Air Force's vaccination rate has increased by 73%, whereas the U.S. has only increased by 24%.
00:37:03.540And when you look at the DOD as a whole, you see the same similar thing.
00:37:06.720You see a 179% increase in deaths over that same time frame.
00:37:10.360Why is it that with a younger, healthier, more vaccinated force, we're seeing more COVID deaths per capita than the United States is seeing with a much older, unhealthier, less vaccinated population?
00:37:21.720One thing I worry about is that the data would be unpersuasive to people who are motivated by corrupt purposes.
00:37:29.960And frankly, I see a little too much of that in Washington, D.C. when it comes to the influence of big pharma.
00:37:36.080You know, big pharma has multiple lobbyists for every member of Congress.
00:37:40.780They shell out millions of dollars in campaign donations to people.
00:37:45.620And then you have oftentimes a revolving door between a lot of these public health entities and big pharmaceutical companies.
00:37:53.600I mean, you know, I've seen in the military at times a concerning revolving door between senior leaders in the military and defense contractors.
00:38:02.140And at times, you know, that's where Congress plays an important role to make sure that conflicts of interest and bias doesn't in any way impact decision making in a bad way.
00:38:13.000And what I have to report to the three of you is that I think that people don't want to hear it on the data because, you know what, big pharma just loves the idea of having everyone forced to utilize their product.
00:38:25.980I mean, who wouldn't want to live in a world where the government was forcing you to utilize your product?
00:38:30.200And so as strong as I think that that appeal may be, Nick, I think there also has to be an appeal with service members about like these are our bravest patriots.
00:38:39.920We have a volunteer fighting force, you know, the best of the best volunteer for our military and are willing to go anywhere and do anything and fight everyone and accept any mission on behalf of the rest of us.
00:38:51.200And so if you if you retaliate against those people, if you improperly coerce them, if you try to hem them in against regulations, it creates a far broader problem.
00:39:02.180I mean, you know, all of you have made the decision to serve in our military.
00:39:05.320Are there any of your family members who are concerned about your careers and the opportunity that you have to make a patriotic contribution based on these mandates?
00:39:43.600And I can tell you there is just a report that came out that shows that for the Air Force alone, their population that wants to join, they've lost 50 percent already.
00:39:53.360People are not wanting to join anymore.
00:39:55.540And honestly, if it's my own kids, I'm not going to suggest they join.
00:39:58.640In fact, I'm going to do whatever I can to dissuade them.
00:40:00.960Now, in my career, up until this point, things have been relatively fine.
00:40:05.660I mean, you have an issue here, there that you discuss with your command.
00:40:08.160You know, once and again, and you get it resolved or maybe you think something's stupid and that's, you know, just water cooler talk.
00:40:47.540And I'm willing to put it all on the line to do what is right.
00:40:50.920And I've tried to make that extremely clear to my leaders that, look, if a person like me is willing to put everything on the line, you might want to listen to me.
00:41:03.660Captain, do you have something to add to that about just how family and loved ones, you know, look at this dynamic that our service members are put into?
00:41:11.780So, like I said before, I come from a family of service members.
00:41:14.880We honestly can't believe what's going on.
00:41:16.960I feel more concerned for the junior enlisted, the members who were coerced or tricked into getting this shot that is not an approved shot.
00:41:25.720And they did it because, like Nick, they have family to consider, you know, their lifestyle.
00:41:30.680I actually, there's a tech sergeant who just joined a lawsuit.
00:41:34.280He couldn't even afford to pay the $500 for the lawsuit.
00:41:36.680And so a couple officers helped him because, you know, he's concerned about supporting his family.
00:41:50.080He was holed up in a hotel with his family of five and their dog, his pregnant wife, for seven months.
00:41:54.960He had to shell out $21,000 of his own money because if you are not vaccinated, this occurred when the mandates were first implemented.
00:42:03.220If you are not vaccinated, they declared that you could not PCS, and they were in the middle of PCSing.
00:42:08.300So for seven months, he and his five family members with his pregnant wife and dog were in a hotel, and they had to shell out their own money for this.
00:42:19.040All three of you know these regs a great deal, and there is litigation that you've joined to resolve some of these issues.
00:42:27.960And there are going to be a lot of folks from my district who are wearing the uniform, who have loved ones who are wearing the uniform, who are going to watch this,
00:42:34.640and they're going to think the three of you have tremendous bravery, and they're going to want to know how they can connect with you,
00:42:40.720how they can follow the progress of this litigation and any rulings that come out of it.
00:42:45.060So how can people stay informed into the battle that you're waging?
00:42:50.640So I don't have any social media, but there are groups that are out there.
00:42:54.140So Terminal CWO on Telegram, Military Freedom Keepers on Telegram, Fight for Veterans with the number four on Telegram.
00:43:00.980Those are ways that you can reach out to people.
00:43:02.660There are service members helping each other through this process and putting out how to go through the religious exemption process,
00:43:17.680So with litigation, one of the biggest lawsuits, and this isn't ours, but Liberty Council has a couple different ones.
00:43:24.260They have a pretty good Instagram, Twitter following if anyone wants to look up Liberty Council.
00:43:29.180They really focus on their religious freedom.
00:43:31.640Our particular case is Coker v. Austin.
00:43:34.480And honestly, for that, it's really just a matter of you can look it up online and there's websites that allow you to, for free, look at the documentation.
00:43:43.040We don't, we don't, we're not letting go to the council.
00:43:45.600We don't have a big presence on media.
00:43:47.980We're not trying to blast it out there necessarily.
00:43:50.580But, you know, some of the, some of the sites, the terminal sites that Jordan was talking about, they are also on Instagram.
00:44:00.320Terminal CWO, military freedom keepers.
00:44:02.860And what they will do is they will kind of be a collective source for all these lawsuits.
00:44:06.880And they will oftentimes post what's going on, what the, what the big updates are.
00:44:11.300You know, little things don't really matter, but the big updates and give people hope.
00:44:14.820You know, that's one of the biggest things with all of us, especially at the beginning of this.
00:44:20.080A lot of these service members, they don't know there's anyone else standing with them.
00:44:23.740They might be the only person in their unit and they don't know any better.
00:44:28.860I've honestly been extremely fearful with the steep rise in suicides we've seen across the DoD that some of these members may take their life
00:44:35.320waiting for the DoD to do the right thing, which it may never do.
00:44:40.680Dr. Sigaloff, how can folks follow your podcast and on what platforms?
00:44:45.540So I'm on, I'm on all platforms where you can find podcasts.