The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - September 18, 2025


The Anchormen Show Ep 57 - Remembering Charlie w： Jack Posobiec


Episode Stats

Length

51 minutes

Words per Minute

185.69624

Word Count

9,555

Sentence Count

542

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Now, it's time for the Anchorman Podcast with Matt Gaetz and Dan Ball.
00:00:16.180 Welcome to a special edition of the Anchorman Podcast. Usually we use this time to explore
00:00:21.260 various forms of the human condition. And now we are going to reflect on the tragic events
00:00:27.420 of this past week. We'll be joined in moments by Jack Posobiec, one of Charlie Kirk's closest
00:00:32.620 friends and closest confidants at the Turning Point USA organization. Jack Posobiec is an alum
00:00:38.980 of One American News and hosts a program that is closely aligned with Turning Point and then aired
00:00:43.880 on another network. But we thought it was important to talk about this incredible moment in terms of
00:00:50.500 what it means for the conservative movement, the trajectory of ideology, and the future of activism
00:00:56.340 and how people can choose to get involved to otherwise feel a little put off by the political
00:01:01.720 system. So this won't be like one of our usual episodes, but we think you'll enjoy it. We'll
00:01:06.560 have Jack in just a moment. There are also a couple of updates we want to give you about
00:01:11.020 One American News itself. When I had the opportunity to join this network, we were being distributed to
00:01:16.500 homes here in the United States and throughout the Caribbean. But since that time, we've seen
00:01:21.220 2025 become the year of One American News. We've been added to DISH and Sling. We had an agreement
00:01:28.040 for distribution with Voice of America so people all around the globe wouldn't be getting liberal
00:01:33.380 nonsense, but instead could hear the perspectives that we share in our live news and also on our
00:01:38.960 talk show programs. Thereafter, we got on the Charter Spectrum Networks, the largest cable provider
00:01:45.000 in the country. And most recently, incredibly honored to add YouTube TV to the list of partners
00:01:52.100 that are carrying our work. YouTube TV is the fastest growing distribution of news and this type
00:01:59.620 of, I guess, cable-like product. And for us to go on there represents a real reversal. Because I remember
00:02:07.060 as a member of Congress when One American News often was this great bastion of truth and it's a place
00:02:13.500 you could go to say what was really on your mind without being censored. And then time and again,
00:02:17.760 it was YouTube demonetizing. It was Facebook banning or shadow banning. It was a lot of the powers that
00:02:25.160 be in corporate America unifying to try to constrain advertising dollars from anyone who wasn't touting
00:02:32.100 the traditional narrative. And yet, like a pirate ship going into battle, One American News persisted in
00:02:38.740 in no small part due to my next guest, Jack Posobiec, but also because of the fearless journalism
00:02:44.620 and the outstanding owners that we have here who wanted to preserve within the information sphere
00:02:50.460 a place that people could go for this type of critically important work. And if the life of
00:02:56.160 Charlie Kirk teaches us, you know, so many things, certainly one of them is that you cannot retreat
00:03:02.840 from critical domains in the information battle, right? There was this sense that conservatives
00:03:09.160 should just abandon college campuses. Maybe you just let the college campuses go and become weird
00:03:15.020 cesspools of liberalism and decay and despair and people would prefer something else. But Charlie wanted
00:03:23.420 to go and take that territory. He wanted to go confront those ideas. And he, in fact, did so at scale.
00:03:29.320 I mean, this guy who started out having small discussions with people at folding tables that
00:03:36.220 were set up in student unions began drawing thousands, tens of thousands of people to come
00:03:41.960 and see the show. And that's also something important about our politics in an era with declining
00:03:49.160 attention span. You've got to be able to create clash. You've got to be able to show people that there
00:03:55.200 are different ideas. Like this is not just different versions of the same bland stuff.
00:04:00.900 There are fundamental differences in how the left and how the right think about the United States
00:04:05.020 of America. Those have to be ripened. Those have to be brought into the public sphere. And then,
00:04:10.640 yeah, there is a good part of this that requires defeating the other side, not merely accommodating
00:04:16.360 every strange or destructive viewpoint they have, but actually showcasing how that will lead to
00:04:21.420 societal decline. Charlie Kirk, with everything he had for 31 years, was fighting for the preservation
00:04:27.660 of Western civilization. He believed that in the global West, we had done more to create opportunity
00:04:34.100 to lift people up from poverty and to give people a chance to live a meaningful life.
00:04:40.140 This guy who came out of the suburbs of Chicago led one of the most meaningful lives I could ever
00:04:46.360 imagine. He saw his life's work accomplished. He built an organization that
00:04:51.340 will be eternal in its own life and certainly eternal in carrying his memory. And he leaves
00:04:57.100 behind a family who loved him dearly and who is committed to see that his work is never forgotten
00:05:02.440 and that his legacy is preserved. We hope you enjoy this discussion with Jack Posobiec,
00:05:07.880 the host of Human Events Daily on Real America's Voice, one of the closest people on the planet Earth
00:05:12.680 to Charlie Kirk. There are certain moments, certain events in human history where an entire nation,
00:05:20.760 an entire world can think about where they were and what they were doing at a particular
00:05:26.200 occurrence. I remember and always will remember that I was out at a cabin in the woods huddled around
00:05:32.780 the TV when the Soviet Union fell. I remember being at the beach with my family when we learned of the
00:05:39.920 passing of Princess Diana in the evening. And I remember standing in the Student Union at Florida State
00:05:46.320 University during 9-11. I will always remember where I was, who I was with, what I was doing
00:05:52.480 when I learned that my friend Charlie Kirk, the proud, prosperous, successful founder of the Turning
00:06:00.400 Point USA organization, had been shot. I was here at One America News about to interview another good
00:06:07.460 friend of mine, another good friend of Charlie's, Jack Posobiec. Jack is someone we really enjoy having
00:06:13.640 discussions with because he is one of the alums of One America News who helped to build this network
00:06:19.080 with fearless reporting, with tough questions. He came on TV and said what people were thinking
00:06:25.540 when they weren't getting that type of a perspective from mainstream media. And when I learned about this,
00:06:32.200 I thought, my gosh, you know, Jack and Charlie so close. And so now as we're all still grappling with
00:06:38.420 where our movement goes, where Turning Point goes, where each of us go in the absence of Charlie's
00:06:43.580 friendship and mentoring, I wanted to at least bring on Jack Posobiec and continue what I had
00:06:50.820 started on that faithful day. He is the host of Human Events Daily on Real America's Voice. He has been
00:06:56.460 a constant fixture in Charlie Kirk's political apparatus in Turning Point USA. And he joins us now.
00:07:03.360 Jack, thanks for being here. You know, I don't know what we're like actually allowed to say about
00:07:08.720 your background. But when you when people ask you about your background and what you've done for
00:07:13.840 the country, what do you tell them just as a as an initial point of context? Well, hey, Matt,
00:07:20.240 thanks. Thanks for having me on. Always good to be back back home at One American News. And look,
00:07:26.440 you know, I tell people that I served in Navy intelligence, a former Navy intelligence officer,
00:07:32.900 and had multiple deployments in service of that. Usually if they ask for more, I can I give it
00:07:40.420 more. But, you know, that was what I was doing, you know, sort of prior to 2016 in the first Trump
00:07:47.680 election. And that's where I was when the escalate when he came down the escalator and then
00:07:53.140 I got more involved politically and that in that election. And that led to me making the jump to
00:07:59.560 conservative media. And and as you say, One American News and and and now with Turning Point.
00:08:06.200 Yeah. And you have really been speaking to this audience that Turning Point speaks to a lot of the
00:08:12.180 folks who listen to Human Events Daily on Real America's Voice and on all their podcast platforms.
00:08:16.780 It's a lot of young men. It's a lot of young men who feel like they are being ignored. They are being
00:08:22.180 passed over in their concerns and consequences by a lot of the talking heads. We typically see.
00:08:27.800 How did you come to meet Charlie Kirk and to be so woven into this critically important audience
00:08:34.440 politically and also from an activism standpoint?
00:08:38.500 Well, I mean, you know, it's sort of organic, I guess. You start out, you know, the just met him at
00:08:44.520 an event, St. Louis. It was an Eagle Forum event with, believe it or not, being hosted by Ed Martin,
00:08:51.520 of all people. So, you know, you look where Ed is now in the Department of Justice. And now,
00:08:55.740 you know, Charlie and I over at Turning Point and it just it just you never you never know where
00:09:01.800 things are going to take you. And actually, I remember Ed had asked me, he said, said,
00:09:10.160 hey, Jack, I need a runner here and I need, you know, I got to go pick this this guy up at the
00:09:15.340 airport. But but I can't go. Can you take the keys? I've got this extra car. And I said, yeah,
00:09:20.420 who is it? He goes, it's he's like, you ever hear of Charlie Kirk? I said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:24.400 That's Charlie Kirk guy. I've seen him on him on Twitter, seen him on, you know, TV and stuff.
00:09:29.160 Campus guy. Sure. Yeah. I'll go pick up Charlie. And there you go. You'll pick him at the airport.
00:09:33.560 Hey, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobiec. Good to meet you. And, you know, I didn't, you know,
00:09:39.440 immediately start with Turning Point right after then. It was, you know, sort of organic because
00:09:43.720 I would I would go to Turning Point events. They are ubiquitous events, the Student Action Summit,
00:09:50.540 then the Teen Student Action Summit and other different things that were going on in the first
00:09:55.900 Trump administration. Charlie was just constantly in D.C. and, you know, we'd spend nights together at
00:10:01.280 Trump Hotel and, you know, working the work in the lobby and meeting people and, you know,
00:10:07.880 holding various events. And it just sort of I would say it just sort of grew organically. And then,
00:10:12.320 you know, eventually, you know, they started saying, hey, would you ever like to speak at one
00:10:17.180 of these things? I said, yeah, I'll give that a shot. You know, maybe moderate. I think the first
00:10:20.900 one I did was I moderated a panel. And then eventually they started asking me if I'd like to
00:10:25.700 have more direct speaking gigs. And then at one point, you know, down the line, it was Tyler Boyer
00:10:34.300 and Charlie came to me and said, you know, we have this idea for for, you know, maybe like a podcast
00:10:40.460 arm. And, you know, we we think you'd be a great guy at it. And do you want to come and join us?
00:10:45.480 And we'll we'll do it live. We'll do it on campus. We'll go and do different things. And and we just
00:10:50.900 started doing that. And it's you know, it's really just taken off from there. And then being with Charlie
00:10:56.380 on campus and doing the election streams together. It's you know, just it's really something I would
00:11:01.520 say that started organically and it's ebbed and flowed and on and on with the entire as a part of
00:11:10.300 the sort of grander MAGA movement. But there's many different currents within MAGA, but all, of course,
00:11:15.960 you know, rowing and hopefully rowing in the same direction. Yeah. I want to talk about where
00:11:20.080 turning point fits within those currents. Right. Like if if I was going to describe a turning point
00:11:26.200 conference to somebody, the way my wife describes it is she says it's like Republican Coachella,
00:11:31.160 because so many of the things you do in politics are so dank and sad and people wear name tags and
00:11:38.240 there's just like, you know, stale white wine and people want to talk about their special interests.
00:11:44.540 But turning point is actually fun. There are pyrotechnics and there are there's music, there's faith,
00:11:51.120 there are exhibits. Like how would you describe the ideology of the organization? And if they were
00:11:57.080 to have a direct interface with like the Charlie Kirk era of turning point, what would that look like?
00:12:03.220 Yeah. So, I mean, the way you mentioned the events, it's so true. You know, usually when I'm
00:12:08.380 describing an event and I always say that you could you could go to, you know, one of these events,
00:12:15.040 America Fest or the Student Action Summit or when, you know, People's Con that we've had,
00:12:19.840 People's Convention last year. And even then, you still you could go three days in a row and you'd
00:12:25.960 still never be able to experience all of it. And they're actually designed that way because there's
00:12:30.440 always different breakout sessions and trainings inside different things you can be doing. There's
00:12:35.480 meet and greets. There's, hey, your favorite influencers here, your favorite creators here.
00:12:39.720 Oh, my gosh. Now there's a book signing going on over here. Then, oh, no, look who's on main stage.
00:12:43.740 I got to run that way. So it's designed to be like that. So it's almost a choose your own
00:12:48.260 adventure because people do come. And I'll explain that because people do come from different parts
00:12:54.640 of sort of the wider spectrum of MAGA and then conservatism. You know, you'll find people that
00:13:02.000 are more of our libertarian brethren who come in and, you know, they're always welcomed in. And
00:13:08.360 sometimes we agree. Sometimes we debate and, you know, we end up with clarity. And, you know,
00:13:13.480 that's, that's obviously what Charlie's always been about is hosting those debates. There are
00:13:18.000 times, there are people who are, you know, immigration is their main focus. Other people,
00:13:22.400 foreign policy is their main focus. And for, you know, the wide gamut of things for life,
00:13:28.960 obviously has been a mainstay. MAHA started and has gotten so much bigger, which by the way,
00:13:36.140 Charlie was a huge belief, like a personal believer in. And I think that's something that a lot of people
00:13:41.500 don't actually know about Charlie, that he really did practice that. Like the, those Starbucks cups
00:13:47.860 that he always had, that was not coffee. That was like a mint tea that he had, you know, he was not,
00:13:52.180 he didn't drink caffeine. He'd been off caffeine for, I think over a year, actually, I think over an
00:13:57.800 entire year. And, you know, I've never seen him drink. But, you know, the point being is that you,
00:14:04.460 you've got that sort of broad cross section of what the core of MAGA is. And I would say though,
00:14:11.340 always grassroots and always populist. And you, you can actually see as the conservative movement
00:14:18.540 sort of moved in more of this populist direction, turning point kind of moved from being, I think,
00:14:24.360 more of a quasi libertarian, just sort of, you know, where, where conservatism was in 2012
00:14:30.220 to where it is now in the Trump era, where it is much more populist and it's America first. And
00:14:36.840 that's, that's a very different iteration of, you know, and, and obviously in a youth movement,
00:14:42.480 the youth is constantly in a state of flux. And so by staying on campus and having that direct ear to
00:14:48.600 the ground of where college kids were, Charlie was able to see that move, I think before so many
00:14:54.160 people that are just, you know, in DC or, you know, they're, they're watching, you know, regular TV
00:15:01.660 and not interfacing with, uh, the online grassroots or interfacing with podcasts and they just, they
00:15:07.660 didn't see it coming, but Charlie did. It's such a good point you make about how Charlie and turning
00:15:14.060 point really traced in movement where conservatism went. And I felt that in my own politics, like in
00:15:20.860 2010, I had way more libertarian energy because I, I truly believed that if we had the government
00:15:28.060 less involved, making fewer decisions, the only outcome would be better decisions that the government
00:15:33.600 made terrible decisions. And so you just needed to do all you could to fight the, the, the beast
00:15:41.040 of government. And that's how you were a good conservative. But then I think young people,
00:15:46.860 I think millennials in large part and Gen Z as well, they saw government continue to get stronger
00:15:54.320 and stronger despite the best efforts of, of those with libertarian tendencies, but nobody was actually
00:16:00.220 having a debate about what the government that was growing stronger should be doing. And so what,
00:16:04.820 what populism did, I think through MAGA, through turning point, through president Trump's brilliant
00:16:10.400 campaigns is it said, wait a second, we, we, we can't just say we want small government. We have to
00:16:15.420 talk about the things that we want the government to do as it exists today to improve people's lives.
00:16:22.220 Do you think that is a unidirectional trend with young people, Jack, or do you think that that is
00:16:27.880 something that will, will sort of ebb and flow back and forth?
00:16:32.260 I think it will ebb and flow. I do think you'll get to a point where, where people are saying, okay,
00:16:37.680 I mean, I hope that we get to a point where we've done so much and done some, and people say,
00:16:42.200 all right, that's enough. You know, we don't need to, we don't need to push any further, but
00:16:45.740 you know, it, it's, it's going to sound a little bit cliche when I say this, but see the problem
00:16:51.740 of wokeness came in and it's, it's, it, we realized that, wait a minute, this is something that exists
00:16:58.360 in the government, but also outside the government. And we, we realized that we had actually lost the
00:17:04.420 culture war and we had totally stopped fighting the culture war by saying, all we have to do is fight
00:17:09.040 government. And so we'll follow up to do is fight government. Then the left is over there promoting
00:17:14.040 culture. All those times. And Barack Obama would go on the late shows or go on the celebrity shows
00:17:20.020 or show up at some, uh, some award show or hang out in Hollywood. And we said, what's he doing all
00:17:24.920 that for? Who cares? That stuff doesn't matter. That's no big deal. Well, guess what? The culture
00:17:29.660 lurched left and they will lurch left with politics. And suddenly everyone out there who was putting all
00:17:37.020 their energy towards fighting government realized, wait a minute, I'm totally out of lockstep
00:17:41.200 with the culture. And that's what led to this huge dirt. There was a massive blind spot that
00:17:47.300 conservatives had made. Uh, this is your, your Mitt Romney, your Paul Ryan, John McCain style
00:17:53.240 conservatism where, you know, it was like this like small government, but like massive war at the
00:17:59.340 same time. It's like kind of hard to contextualize it. And, and it just failed. It just failed the ballot
00:18:04.440 box over and over and over. And then along comes Donald Trump and he, he reconfigures the entire
00:18:10.460 thing around. And so, so I do think though, that, you know, it's, it's going to get to the point where
00:18:17.300 hopefully because we've gotten things better, right? That's that when I, when I talked to Gen Z, when I talked
00:18:24.860 to college kids, the number one thing they say is we need to fix things. We need to do something
00:18:30.660 and we need to see something done right now because there are so many problems. I mean, obviously
00:18:36.400 look, we're, we're, you know, we're having this conversation. I'm in the turning point headquarters
00:18:41.340 right now. And our leader is, is not with us anymore. And that's a huge problem. And that's
00:18:49.040 also something where I would say, guys, you know, the libertarian answer of like, Hey, let's just have
00:18:54.820 a debate. Well, guess what? We saw what happened when, when we tried those tactics, there does need
00:19:00.760 to be a response. And by the way, no, that doesn't mean we're going to police speech because Charlie
00:19:07.100 Kirk was not killed by speech. He was killed by an extremist who was attempting to silence speech,
00:19:15.400 specifically his speech. And so guess what? We do have a domestic extremist problem in this country.
00:19:20.840 It's not a both sides problem. Know what side it's on. Know what side is doing these things.
00:19:25.620 That's where you need government to come in where necessary and where applicable to dismantle these
00:19:31.660 networks and organizations, but also where, you know, I see a lot of, a lot of energy that I love right
00:19:37.480 now, the naming, the shaming, the humiliations, keep it going, keep calling the employers. I'm all for it.
00:19:44.060 We saw that as more and more students were blasting their teachers for continuing with the
00:19:50.240 critical race theory, with the radical gender ideology. And now with the type of hate filled
00:19:55.340 rhetoric that celebrates anyone's slaying like this, I I'm here for it. I think we, we saw this
00:20:00.940 week, Clemson went from basically saying nothing about three of their employees posting celebratory
00:20:08.380 messages about the death of Charlie Kirk to firing one of them. And then that wasn't enough. And so they
00:20:14.480 got rid of all of them, which was the right thing to get to at the beginning. But I think it does
00:20:18.700 showcase that there actually is a response that people are reacting to Charlie Kirk's killing in
00:20:25.080 a way that's saying, no, I'm not going to tolerate this anymore. I'm not going to allow it anymore.
00:20:28.900 Not in, not in policing of speech, but, but merely in what, what in our culture we choose to fund
00:20:36.100 and pay for subsidize. And, uh, you know, the left I think is losing that battle. And in a way,
00:20:42.800 like after January 6th, there were a bunch of these suburban mods who just thought the Republican
00:20:47.740 party was too unruly, too rambunctious, too violent. We just seem so far away from that right
00:20:55.200 now with the, the scourge of left-wing violence, trans violence, uh, uh, anti-free speech violence,
00:21:02.980 whatever it is that we've seen. Uh, do you, do you think that pendulum has swung all the way?
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00:21:38.080 I think it has. I mean, there's, it's, it's very hard. I mean, it's, it's obviously, you know,
00:21:45.980 you can't really, you can't really put a number on these things or a metric, but we all agree.
00:21:52.740 And I really do think the vast majority of quote unquote, the suburban mods, the normies, if you will,
00:21:59.120 you know, they see a guy like Charlie who, you know, if you're not political and you see a guy like
00:22:05.140 Charlie and there he is, and he's got his, he's got his teeth, actually the same shirt that I'm
00:22:10.080 wearing right here. And, you know, only minds it's, we got, I know it's over here. We got the
00:22:14.500 date on it, the date there that it happened. So we just had these printed up and we're putting them
00:22:20.160 out now, um, from turning point in the Charlie Kirk show that you show that to a normie and they see
00:22:25.980 this horrific vision of brutality and barbarism. And, and then, then, you know, the next thing you
00:22:34.600 look at is, well, what, what was this guy about? And then you see pictures of Erica, pictures of
00:22:39.700 him and videos with the children say, well, wait a minute, this guy seems great. What's, you know,
00:22:45.200 again, it's, it's just the visuals, right? Um, and you say, what, what's so, what's wrong with this
00:22:49.820 guy? And then of course the liberal, their mindset is they have to tell you, well, he, you know,
00:22:55.200 it was, it was, it was the values he was espousing. And, and to the, again, to the normie, they're
00:23:00.220 going to say, so you didn't like what he had to say. Like, I'm, I'm confused. Like, he seems like
00:23:05.920 he's just a guy with a microphone and with a family. Like, what, what do you mean? That's it
00:23:10.800 doesn't work. Like you will just come across as completely insane. If you try to make that argument,
00:23:17.580 I got into a thing with, uh, sky destiny the other day. And, and he was trying to tell me that
00:23:24.360 I, he said, he said, there's no evidence that, uh, he said, well, there's no evidence that
00:23:30.600 a leftist did this. And I said, well, the bullet said, Hey, fascist catch right on the bullet. And
00:23:37.200 he goes, he goes, ah, but that wasn't the actual bullet that was fired at Charlie. It was another
00:23:43.380 one. I'm like, like, I just, I said, shut up, man. Just, just shut up. Like you guys, you're so
00:23:50.740 far removed from the vast majority of humanity. At that point, you've dissociated so far from any
00:23:58.220 reality. I mean, if I have a theory of mind, I think it's just actual madness in that case,
00:24:02.780 because I don't like, like, like you cannot have a viable political movement that just supports the
00:24:09.180 wanton murder of innocent people in cold blood. It's, it's just not going to fly.
00:24:14.700 There does to be, appear to be a celebration that is sickening. I want to, I want to take a moment.
00:24:19.400 And it's mainstream, Matt, by the way, I just, on that point, it's, this is not something people
00:24:24.240 say, because they're already trying to say, oh, well, it's, it's not no one celebrating. No,
00:24:29.080 don't ever let anyone get away with saying that, that it's, it's not that we've seen,
00:24:35.240 we've got the screen grabs and the text. If, if people weren't celebrating, who's getting fired?
00:24:39.980 Well, by the way, before Charlie's death, when he spoke at the RNC, no less than CNN broke away from
00:24:47.740 his speech. So a bunch of commentators could call him a white nationalist. What, what do you think
00:24:52.800 you're broadcasting? If that is your approach, they would not allow their audience to even hear
00:24:58.640 Charlie Kirk's remarks at the RNC, which I thought were splendid. Instead, they wanted to de-platform
00:25:05.160 even the ability to have that perspective shared. And that was even treatment. They didn't give other
00:25:11.480 people at the RNC, like other people who they don't like, they didn't cut away from and call
00:25:16.760 white nationalists. And I think it is because Charlie Kirk did something that was so unique.
00:25:22.460 He shifted an entire demographic. I mean, if you would have told me that the under 30 crowd at any
00:25:29.280 point would be a substantial contributor to a Republican coalition, I would have thought that
00:25:34.780 would have been insane when I was that age. The principal GOP strategy with young people in the
00:25:40.800 2000s was just to hope that too many of them didn't vote. And now, I mean, Charlie Kirk, despite
00:25:47.240 leaving us at 31 and now being forever young, only known as a young man to all the world, he achieved
00:25:56.860 his life's goal in a mere 31 years. But like, I want to talk about the operational component about that
00:26:03.380 in a place you know well. I contend that absent Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA, we might not
00:26:10.940 have won Pennsylvania. We wouldn't have won Pennsylvania. He was the one getting those
00:26:14.780 fraternity houses out to vote. He was turning out low propensity voters who were young people.
00:26:20.820 You are of the Commonwealth. Talk a little bit about the importance of the ground game from
00:26:25.940 Turning Point in Pennsylvania and frankly, Arizona as well.
00:26:28.780 Yeah, it was the three targets were Pennsylvania, Arizona and to a lesser extent, Wisconsin. Charlie,
00:26:36.880 of course, his personal focus was on Arizona. And so Pennsylvania, you know, that was me being
00:26:44.620 from there. And then also Cliff Maloney with the PA Chase was sort of the approved partner in
00:26:50.200 Pennsylvania and then Scott Pressler. So, you know, we were all sort of and we all worked together,
00:26:55.700 you know, coordinating behind what he wouldn't, I don't know, the scenes, you know, we talked about
00:27:01.380 it publicly too, though. So it's not really behind the scenes, I guess. And, you know, anything I
00:27:06.860 needed the entire year, he just said, take it, just take it. You know, if you need a donor, Charlie
00:27:12.100 would say, here's your donor. If we're holding an event and Charlie was saying, let's go to Penn State,
00:27:16.160 we'd go to Penn State and he'd get 5,000 kids out. And we believe it or not, you know,
00:27:20.840 you mentioned colleges. Center County, where Penn State resides in State College, you know,
00:27:27.060 right out in just the middle of nowhere, middle of the state. This is one of the bluest areas of
00:27:33.120 the state. It just always is because it's the campus, you know, town, it's the university town.
00:27:39.020 And so it always votes that way. Because of Charlie Kirk, he was able to battle the most blue
00:27:50.900 county in the middle of Pennsylvania to a 50-50 standstill, when normally that is a 70-30 or even
00:28:00.140 more blue county for the Democrats. That's the Charlie Kirk effect. He was able to do that and he
00:28:08.200 was able to do so with, you know, just holding a couple events and giving us resources to be out
00:28:13.100 there. Now, you mentioned, though, the focus on low propensity voters. And this is something that
00:28:19.360 Tyler Boyer, Turning Point Action, really were the focus of. And the idea was that a low propensity
00:28:26.040 voter is someone who isn't normally involved in the political process. They're not listening to
00:28:32.300 Matt Gaetz podcast or Jack Posobiec or Charlie Kirk podcasts. They're not really, you know,
00:28:38.080 they're not paying attention to even the national news or political news. They're not the news
00:28:43.620 junkie. They're on X and Twitter 24-7 battling it out. They're just not into it. But you know what
00:28:48.840 they do like? They like college sports and they like UFC and they go on those types of podcasts.
00:28:56.960 And so what Turning Point Action was able to do was create a universe of people who shared those
00:29:04.720 interests and had those metrics and then match bodies and go dollar for dollar to actually hire
00:29:10.520 people. And then, you know, working with groups like PHAs to go in and bring people. So if someone
00:29:16.020 had said, okay, I've got money, I've got time, I want to go in and I want to knock on those doors,
00:29:21.880 they would set you up. And then boom, here's your app, go knock on those doors. If you don't want to
00:29:27.200 knock on the doors, here's some phone calls. But there are more, obviously, there's been a more focus
00:29:31.880 on doors in recent years, particularly 2024. And so all of these votes, so the way, you know,
00:29:40.520 it is in politics, they would say like a high propensity voter, well, that's someone who's
00:29:43.720 always going to vote. Then you've got medium propensity voters. Okay, maybe they only vote
00:29:47.260 in presidential elections. And then low propensity voters, or even what we started kind of calling
00:29:52.060 them were no propensity voters, just someone who doesn't normally vote. You know, then, well,
00:29:57.720 the first thing you have to do is sort of like get them registered. And that's number one,
00:30:00.380 that's where Scott Pressler comes in. And number two is you have to activate that vote. So you're
00:30:04.180 working with the Presslers of the world, finding those people and then making direct communication
00:30:09.380 with them. And then just badgering them literally just chasing that ballot and saying, here's how
00:30:14.580 you can get it in. Here's what the process is. And this was a huge difference from 2022 in those
00:30:19.500 midterms, where Republicans were shooing the mail in ballot. This was a full on embrace. I was with
00:30:26.280 Charlie when he said, we're going to do this, we're going to get in the ballot game. And you look at
00:30:30.680 those states, and it really did become the margin. Yeah, I remember being with Charlie on election
00:30:36.080 night, and he was regularly checking his phone on those Arizona numbers. He took such enormous pride
00:30:42.200 in the number of people who were part of those neighborhood door knocking sessions or call trees.
00:30:48.700 And I am certainly hopeful that the groundwork turning point is laid is now durable. Oftentimes
00:30:55.940 with martyrs, it's interesting, their life only really begins after death. And there's like this
00:31:02.160 whole new life for Charlie Kirk as the martyr, as this symbol of faith and free speech and traditional
00:31:09.040 values. Jack, bring us inside of like the turning point thinking on this, because when I saw Charlie
00:31:15.460 Slane, there was a part of me that just like didn't want to go on air, didn't want to talk about the
00:31:21.120 news, didn't want to check politics. And I think about people like you and Andrew and Lauren and
00:31:28.000 Tyler, these titans of organizing and activism in our movement. I just think, man, how tough is it for
00:31:36.160 anybody to go back there to the turning point headquarters, to go back to work, and to know you
00:31:42.180 have to do it without Charlie? I mean, even when Charlie was over everybody's shoulder, telling
00:31:46.740 everybody what to do, being the great field general that he was, this is all still really, really hard.
00:31:52.160 And winning against everything that we're up against is so hard. And now to have to be back in
00:31:57.800 the battle without him, give us a sense of the sentiment there and how some of those really,
00:32:04.440 that kitchen cabinet that supported Charlie, that operationalized his vision, is thinking about
00:32:09.700 the days and weeks ahead. Well, look, you know, it's, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, the first couple
00:32:15.580 days being around here, it was not easy. And a lot of the wider staff were given days off.
00:32:24.100 But you know what, even when they were given days off, there were people who still just came in
00:32:28.220 anyway, because they said, you know what, I know Charlie want me to be here. And, you know,
00:32:35.440 I remember the first time I walked back into this building, I actually, I was, I was, it was for a
00:32:40.560 CNN interview, because we usually, where I do, where I do my show is out of a different building.
00:32:46.540 It's like down the street from here. And so I hadn't been back to this building yet until we did
00:32:51.980 this CNN interview. And we had a, we had sort of an interview spot set up. And so when you watch me
00:32:56.540 in that interview, that actually is like my real reaction to being in the headquarters, the place
00:33:03.600 where Charlie and I worked so closely. And, and I was, I feel like, I mean, I guess the state of
00:33:10.620 shock almost, you know, it felt haunted, in a way, not in a, not like haunted by Charlie, you know,
00:33:18.760 and like a, like a, you know, conjuring kind of way, but like, just everything felt off. You know,
00:33:24.920 like you go in and you see the same desk and the same chair and the same microphone, light fixtures,
00:33:32.680 and all the equipment that we have to do this stuff. And it felt wrong. It just felt something
00:33:39.080 was wrong with all of it. And I, you know, that something not physical, something spiritually
00:33:43.300 wrong with everything. And that was this, this sense that, that Charlie's, that not even that
00:33:50.360 Charlie was, was gone, but just that a great evil, a great evil had occurred. And
00:33:55.920 despite that, we just, we knew that we had to keep going. We have continued going. We have
00:34:05.140 continued fighting because, you know, you mentioned Charlie kind of being over the shoulder and it's
00:34:10.080 like, it's like, you could still hear him in your ear a little bit saying, keep going, keep fighting,
00:34:16.780 do everything, work harder, be better. We've got an event coming up. How many, you know, Lauren,
00:34:22.600 how many, how many seats we got? Do we need to open more? Do we need to add more? All right,
00:34:26.580 Tyler, how's everything set? We have the VIP Andrew. Andrew is, is the media locked in. All
00:34:31.560 right. We good on our schedules. All right. Who's fighting over the speaking slots, you know,
00:34:35.880 or is there, are these guys good? Is this guy good? Who's got some, something we got to deal with
00:34:40.140 Jack, Jack, you're not going to say anything too crazy, right? Jack. All right. All right. All right.
00:34:44.260 You know, okay. We're going to, we're going to keep it in the box a little bit, a little bit,
00:34:47.580 not, you know, but, but, you know, you would always say make news. He'd say, Matt, go out
00:34:53.120 there and make news. He would always say that actually. And then I would do it and he'd be
00:34:57.280 like, Jack, I didn't mean like that. Um, and, uh, you know, and in a way I can just hear him.
00:35:05.160 And I think all of us can just, we, we know what Charlie would want. And so it's true. But I also get
00:35:09.520 the haunting sense. Like I I'm on so many text chains with Charlie. I'm on like, you know, 14 text
00:35:15.940 chains with him. And you think about everybody else, you, you included, we're like on the,
00:35:20.400 these, uh, gatherings that occur in the digital space that now are absent the person who so often
00:35:27.340 was the driving focus. Like I've, I've said this repeatedly and I will always say it.
00:35:32.320 Charlie will never get enough credit for what an operator he was. He wasn't just an organizer.
00:35:37.520 He was someone who could align interests, who could craft message, who could sequence various, uh,
00:35:44.800 things to get maximum output. And there's really, I mean, I hate to say it. There's really just nobody
00:35:50.180 else like him. I mean, there are a few people in our movement for whom that is the case. There is
00:35:53.820 no other James O'Keefe. There's only James O'Keefe does what James O'Keefe does. There is no other
00:35:58.360 Steve Bannon, only Steve, what does what Steve does. And, and Charlie, um, you know, played that
00:36:03.320 kind of role. And I think too, when I was nominated by president Trump, Charlie would say to me, all right,
00:36:07.980 Matt, I'm going to, I'm going to help you, but you can't even have a glass of wine at dinner.
00:36:12.320 He said, I don't even want a situation where like you and ginger have been out, you've had a cocktail
00:36:17.220 and a Senator calls you with intricate questions about the Bureau of prisons. And you're not
00:36:22.100 absolutely sharp on your game. And here's this guy substantially younger than me, kind of bossing
00:36:26.600 me around. And I actually listened to it. Wait, Matt, wait, I actually, I think I was sitting next
00:36:30.940 to Charlie when he made that call. Well, you know what? He was right. And I listened to him. I didn't,
00:36:37.220 I didn't become attorney general, but I lost like 12 pounds, which was great during,
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00:37:40.200 forward slash Matt. Well, he did so much to assemble this government. He moved his family
00:37:45.660 down to Palm Beach. He sourced a lot of really talented people to serve in the administration.
00:37:51.440 And then when great folks were pursuing meaningful jobs, like Charlie would fight for them. You know,
00:37:57.580 our friend Sergio Gore at PPO, like that's an example of a really, really talented, effective operator,
00:38:04.740 eminently loyal to President Trump, but who is in that role in part because Charlie had the great
00:38:11.460 vision for where people could make meaningful contributions. And I can only imagine that's
00:38:16.380 the way Turning Point became so successful. Like Jack, when I got to Washington, as you were
00:38:22.020 becoming a rising figure in media, Turning Point was like one among many, right? You had CPAC,
00:38:29.160 you had Eagle Forum, another great organization, but you had this constellation of organizations. And
00:38:35.420 then Turning Point really became like the master organization on things that nobody else was doing
00:38:43.240 on the ground and pound game of winning elections and getting people interested in politics who were
00:38:49.060 persuadable to our viewpoint. If you had to describe to somebody the magic elixir that sort of took them
00:38:55.620 from one among equals to the, the dominant force on the right for this type of work, what do you think,
00:39:02.600 what do you think it was?
00:39:04.220 You know, I think it was, it was this, this ability that Charlie had. And I think the organization does
00:39:11.520 still have, and especially with Erica now is that, that, that direct personal connection that he was able
00:39:19.080 to make with the students, with the campuses, the fact that he would go there over and over and over
00:39:27.160 and over, crisscrossing the country at, at great, you know, I'd say, I'd say great personal cost,
00:39:33.580 but obviously like we know it was great personal cost in the end, but, but even just the cost of time,
00:39:39.280 the cost of travel, it is not easy to do this. It's not easy to host a show and travel. And yet he was
00:39:45.320 doing all of that at once and these Herculean efforts that he would be taking. And people would
00:39:51.740 see that.
00:39:52.360 I remember, I remember before at times he would go on air, he would have to take IVs just for fluids
00:39:57.840 because he was so exhausted from flying from California to New York to Texas. I mean, he was
00:40:03.760 everywhere, Arizona. And I mean, the, the man stressed himself like to the nth degree. Jack, did you ever
00:40:10.780 talk to Charlie about the safety risks associated with this job? Cause I did. And I was always like
00:40:17.780 really, really concerned for him. And, uh, he would always tell me with, without question that if
00:40:24.660 anything ever happened to him, that was God's will, that he was so resolute in his faith that God would
00:40:30.040 use him in whatever way was, uh, you know, was appropriate. And I mean, it, when you, when you,
00:40:36.980 when you don't hold the, those views that, uh, earnestly as he did, it almost makes you feel like
00:40:44.240 less worthy, you know? I mean, did, did you have discussions with Charlie about safety, security,
00:40:49.580 and the risk?
00:40:50.580 Very much so. And, you know, specifically so after Butler and, you know, usually when I, when I talk
00:40:58.560 to Charlie, it's, it's with my sort of political hat on and we're, you know, we're going through,
00:41:02.860 you know, some, I don't know, some, some thing. And, you know, and as you know, half of those
00:41:08.240 things ever even make it into the public. And, uh, you know, I was looking through my old text
00:41:12.200 with Charlie. I'm like, no, I can't talk about that. I can't talk about that. I can't talk about
00:41:15.340 that. Um, and, but after Butler, um, we were on a plane together and we were traveling somewhere.
00:41:23.100 And I said, I said, I'm going to say, Charlie, you know, these events, I want to say it was
00:41:28.300 probably in September of last year. So almost a year. Um, I said, Charlie, these events,
00:41:33.880 I mean, they're, they're not safe. And, uh, especially when you hold them outside and it,
00:41:41.700 all, all it takes is just one nut. It, all it takes is one nut who's willing to put themselves
00:41:48.760 out there. And I don't know where it's going to be, but are you, are you, are you sure you want
00:41:55.120 to keep doing these? And he just looked at me and he said, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to
00:41:59.560 stop. And you're exactly right. He said, I feel called to do this, that I feel called by God,
00:42:06.340 that it's his, been his calling in life to go and speak. And what was interesting too,
00:42:10.020 is that he wouldn't say it because he wanted to, you know, get, I mean, how could you be bigger than
00:42:13.840 Charlie Kirk? He didn't want to, you know, just make himself more famous. That wasn't what it was
00:42:18.300 about. It was said, I want to go because the kids want me to be there because they want someone to
00:42:23.380 talk to because the movement is real. I saw it being real. I saw the thousands of people showing
00:42:29.040 up. I, I knew, you know, particularly in the last two years, you know, Charlie went from someone who
00:42:34.520 was, you know, well known to just icon status, you know, in, in the last two years and, you know,
00:42:42.020 whether that's Gen Z coming online and TikTok and sort of, and then the election sort of all
00:42:46.700 converging at once. I mean, he's, he's bigger than ever, just larger than life. And you'd,
00:42:52.060 you'd go with him to these things. And suddenly it's like, he's like, it's not just my buddy.
00:42:55.500 It's like this, this, like walk around with Michael Jordan or something. And then, you know,
00:43:00.180 in the middle of, uh, you know, in the middle of his, uh, in his prime and, or, or the Beatles
00:43:06.000 or something. I don't even know what you, you compare it to, you know, when you see those girls,
00:43:08.820 like chasing them down the street and everything. And that's what it was like. And, and he said,
00:43:15.260 I'm not stopping because he knew that even if something happened and which did, he would say,
00:43:22.540 that's God, that's God. That's not me. That's God.
00:43:25.560 It is such a deep and admirable faith. You mentioned Erica Kirk. I don't know how she
00:43:31.980 summoned the strength of the words to deliver what was one of the most powerful speeches I think I'll
00:43:37.460 ever hear in my life. Uh, what do you expect her role to be going forward with the organization?
00:43:43.100 Is that defined or still being sorted out? Well, you know, I mean, I, I don't think any,
00:43:50.120 you know, any hard decisions, um, have been made at this point, obviously. I mean, Erica is in
00:43:55.580 an incredible role. Um, right now she, you know, um, she is someone that I think definitely with that
00:44:05.020 speech, it has inspired so many people in the wake of her husband's assassination. She's obviously a
00:44:11.520 leader. She's obviously every bit as strong as Charlie, every bit as intelligent and has that,
00:44:17.740 that drive, that drive that so few have to push for more. And by the way, to inspire that in others.
00:44:26.060 I mean, I, I know that Charlie, uh, there's a reason he picked her. There's, there's a real reason
00:44:30.480 that he picked her. And Charlie, you know, was constantly around, uh, you know, you know,
00:44:34.700 girls from different schools and, you know, in politics, you meet so many people and Charlie
00:44:41.180 said, no, this is the one. And, and he knew it right away. And I think it's because of those
00:44:47.320 qualities that, uh, you know, that they did fall in love and that, that she has stepped up. I mean,
00:44:53.560 I, I mean, I mean, Matt, you know, I, uh, you know, my wife, you know, Tanya and, and, you know,
00:44:58.300 I know ginger, obviously congrats to you guys, by the way. And, uh, you know, I, I, I don't know,
00:45:04.180 like, I, I don't know if something happened to me, if, if Tanya would be in front of a podium,
00:45:08.220 given a speech like that, I just, I don't know. I, I, as for all of the incredible quality she has,
00:45:13.620 I just don't know. She doesn't like being on camera for one, you know, that's, that's one
00:45:17.600 thing right there. Um, and, and love you, babe. Um, she's always great on the Mac Gates show. We love
00:45:24.180 having her. She's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. I hope you know that though,
00:45:27.600 that she, she, she does that for you because she really believes in, in, in what she has to say,
00:45:32.060 but she is, she's not someone who like seeks it, if you know what I mean? Like she's not,
00:45:36.020 she's not like, let me on, let me on, let me on. And neither was Erica. I mean, Erica was somebody
00:45:39.600 who, who, uh, no, that's true. I would call her a servant leader. She's someone who at these events
00:45:44.360 was always ensuring that like everyone else was being taken care of, you know, energy. I'll say
00:45:50.520 something about that because, you know, I have had, you know, a couple of opportunities to see her
00:45:54.960 and we were in the room, you know, the very next room and she was delivering that speech
00:45:58.620 to Tanya myself and she and Tanya are close. And, uh, I remember she, she asked us if we were okay.
00:46:07.380 She said, are you guys okay? And, you know, do you need a place to stay while you're here? I was
00:46:11.860 like, Erica, we're, we're fine. We've got a hotel. It's like, what do you like? What is that? And to
00:46:17.720 your point, it's, it's that servant leadership. It's how can I serve others? And we're sitting here
00:46:22.900 and, and the whole world is thinking, what can we do for Erica? And it's never going to be enough.
00:46:27.680 It's no matter what you do, you pour your heart out. It's never going to be enough because it's
00:46:31.080 never going to bring Charlie back. But that was the, one of the first things she said to us was
00:46:35.500 she asked us if we were all right, or if we needed anything. I'm like, my gosh, here she is in,
00:46:40.880 in a moment such as this, you know, with, with a one-year-old and a three-year-old and she's
00:46:46.240 asking if we're all right. And that's that, that just shows you who she is. That wasn't on camera.
00:46:50.300 That wasn't, you know, in front of a live stream or something. That's just who she is.
00:46:54.440 And, um, and I, I think she's incredible. And if it's something I want to say that,
00:46:59.120 you know, it just, you know, I know it because I've, I was there when, when both of these things
00:47:04.660 happened, that there's that video, that viral video from election night where, you know,
00:47:09.880 we're doing the live stream and then the Pennsylvania call comes in and cheering. And
00:47:15.020 the one time Charlie, uh, you know, sheds a tear and he, you know, kind of covers it up like,
00:47:20.260 I'm not crying. I'm fine. I'm fine. You know? And then Erica rushes in and grabs, everybody knows
00:47:24.780 the video. And, um, that's the same spot. That is the very same spot where less than a year later,
00:47:34.660 she would be giving that memorial speech to Charlie and next to the empty chair. And I think,
00:47:42.000 I think in a real way that, that Charlie was with her when, when she gave that speech.
00:47:48.620 Oh man, we hope he's with all of us. Uh, you know, like you say, it's almost like we can still hear him,
00:47:54.760 uh, giving us advice. Uh, we're, we're near the end of our time, Jack, but like, you know, if,
00:48:00.000 if Charlie were making the pitch to people now to, uh, use whatever bit of inspiration they could
00:48:06.500 draw from a dark moment to plow it into productivity, positivity, uh, something that
00:48:11.800 would improve their own life. I assume the first thing he'd say is go to church. And I think
00:48:17.220 thereafter, he'd probably be encouraging folks to, uh, work their way into the turning point
00:48:22.540 ecosystem. And so take just a moment and describe that ecosystem because it's, it's so much more than
00:48:28.240 even just chapters on college campuses, uh, it's events. It's a lot of the digital content that's
00:48:34.780 being created and shared. Uh, how can folks become a part of it and, and feel, uh, this great life's
00:48:41.100 work of Charlie Kirk that lives on. Yeah, that's right. And, and turning point USA is, is Charlie's
00:48:46.920 life's work and it is going to be his legacy because we're not going to ever stop. We're not going to
00:48:52.520 ever let turning point USA and its mission because its mission is the preservation of America and
00:49:00.100 being that bulwark for the next generation, a living conduit through history, one generation to
00:49:06.800 the next that will, there will always be a turning point USA and Charlie Kirk will always be remembered
00:49:13.680 through the annals of American history going down through time. And, uh, the, the way to be a part of
00:49:20.600 that history and the way to be a part of that legacy as well, you just get involved. If you want to
00:49:26.340 find a chapter, join a, join a chapter. If you want to start a chapter, start a chapter. We've set up
00:49:31.640 fightforcharlie.com. That's up there right now. And if you go there, you can get the specifics on this
00:49:38.120 incredible, this massive, immense, uh, memorial event that's going to be taking place this Sunday
00:49:45.120 in a Cardinal stadium here in Phoenix, Arizona. Uh, we did not know that we would be hosting a
00:49:52.120 presidential event with, I don't know, pretty much the entire U S government here and booking an entire
00:49:57.340 stadium in less than seven days, but here we are, we're doing it. And if you want to be a part of
00:50:01.820 that, you can do that at fightforcharlie.com. And if you want to carry the for the fight on, don't
00:50:06.920 just, don't just watch Charlie's videos. Be like Charlie, live like Charlie, live every single day
00:50:14.580 to its fullest. And Matt, if you, you know, because you know, Charlie, he would ring every little bit
00:50:20.340 of value out of every single day that he could. He had this way of sort of optimizing his time so that
00:50:26.440 there were never any wasted moments. And that that's Charlie. He lived so many more lives in 31 years
00:50:33.160 than so many people ever do. And if you want to do that too, then the best way to do it is get involved.
00:50:39.140 Jack, uh, this has been incredibly cathartic for me. I, I appreciate it. I want to send my
00:50:44.560 condolences to you and everyone there at turning point. Uh, this is a really hard time, but I hope
00:50:50.660 that we are able to like Charlie draw the best out of it that we can and move forward. I look forward
00:50:56.780 to seeing you on Sunday. I'll be there to pay my respects to our dear friend and we hope better days
00:51:02.480 are ahead. Uh, we encourage folks to go to fight for charlie.com. Jack Posobiec is the host of
00:51:07.680 human events daily on real America's voice. And we greatly appreciate you joining us here on
00:51:11.560 Eckerman. Thank you, Matt. God bless you and the family. Thank you. You as well.
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