The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show Episode 91 - From Caracas to Kiev： What Comes Next w： Damian Merlo & Pearson Sharp

00:00:00.000 now it's time for the anchorman podcast with matt gates and pearson sharp

00:00:11.200 welcome back to the anchorman show i'm matt gates and happy new year to everybody i am joined

00:00:20.560 as always by my co-host pearson sharp pearson how did you ring in the new year in 2026

00:00:26.240 uh it's gonna be very uh very disappointing to a lot of the people who went out there and we're in

00:00:33.960 you know times square and all those places like that i uh put my girls down to bed we were lucky

00:00:38.900 we got them down at about uh seven o'clock i think and then my wife and i rushed around frantically

00:00:43.240 trying to get things prepared because we knew they were going to wake up so we could have a

00:00:46.500 little time to ourselves and right as we got everything set up and sat down and you know to

00:00:51.740 watch a movie our littlest daughter woke up and so spent the next hour waiting for her to go down

00:00:57.260 then when she went down our other daughter woke up by the time she was down it was about nine o'clock

00:01:01.860 so we got about half an hour of having martinelli sparkling wine by the fire

00:01:07.020 watching uh james bond and by 9 30 we were both so tired we just went to bed

00:01:11.700 by the way that that is a classy new year's the sparkling wine the bond you are you are mixing

00:01:19.980 in the class with the with the very blue collar act of actually parenting your own children which

00:01:26.480 is pretty awesome actually i think that's a great way to rig in the new year wild we are we have family

00:01:32.240 yeah we have family overseas and so i was actually in germany uh visiting with family who are uh stationed

00:01:38.600 in the military there and i gotta tell you uh america europe is just like so gone i i have i am not

00:01:46.480 bullish on europe after spending a little time there um because like for every schnitzel place

00:01:52.520 i could find there were like three iranian kebab places and i i probably like kebab better than

00:02:00.440 schnitzel but if you were german you would probably want to preserve it a little bit do you have any do

00:02:06.640 do you have any big new year's resolutions i mean

00:02:10.780 not well i i'd like to do some more uh i'd like to do some more big reports uh i had i had fun doing

00:02:19.400 the last one i'd like to do some more this year but uh personally no i mean when you're this great

00:02:24.240 where where do you go from here right

00:02:26.180 no man listen i think i think we've got so much opportunity in this coming year

00:02:33.940 i mean everyone has like their personal resolutions i want to hit the gym more there

00:02:38.140 you go lose a few uh lbs but but but professionally you know we've got all this great opportunity now

00:02:45.060 people seeing one america news on youtube tv on all of the different charter family of networks and

00:02:52.180 getting out there covering these midterms uh seeing the way uh the the fight for power plays out

00:02:58.520 in all these different places in the country uh can't wait to do it it's going to be exciting

00:03:02.300 tonight we've got a big pod planned for everybody damian merlo is going to join us he is the latin

00:03:08.180 america expert who called it on the removal of maduro now he's going to break down what to expect

00:03:14.640 with a lot of different competing factions within the country uh external factors with with foreign

00:03:21.180 influence and uh we're also going to break down a really incredible piece of journalism by my co-host

00:03:28.180 pearson sharp pearson was uh right about at the front lines of the fight between russia and ukraine

00:03:35.100 in this war that's been ongoing and pearson brings uh a version of events that you are not going to see

00:03:41.920 in the mainstream media it really reveals where what it's going to take to have a cessation of the

00:03:48.360 violence and and what the goals are of the parties we're going to get to all of those big highlights

00:03:52.680 uh we're going to take a quick break so you can hear a word from our sponsors but i'll be right back

00:03:56.840 with pearson sharp and damian merlo on the anchorman show welcome back the united states of america has

00:04:02.300 captured the former dictator of venezuela nicholas maduro and i bring in now the man who called it

00:04:09.660 along with my co-host pearson sharp damian merlo latin america an expert and damian the reason i was

00:04:15.440 dying to have this conversation with you in the uh in the weeks leading up to maduro's capture you came

00:04:22.560 on my show the matt gates show and said the days are numbered everyone right now is planning for

00:04:29.440 the post maduro venezuela uh take a listen damian merlo back on december 8th i think his days are

00:04:35.460 numbered uh i hope it's a matter of weeks and not months uh but i you know those days seem to be

00:04:41.820 approaching rather rapidly and and the desperation is going to start to show i think in caracas

00:04:47.060 so damian you were right it was in fact a matter of weeks before this occurred uh i i guess uh the

00:04:57.760 the the planning that went on at the state department is really evident now the fact that

00:05:04.400 in the days following maduro's capture you are not seeing civil war in the country you are not seeing

00:05:10.720 widespread violence you are not seeing an ungovernable people or nation or culture

00:05:16.100 uh it really shows that marco rubio a secretary of state his team they're having quite a moment

00:05:21.360 here what's your observation of where we currently sit in venezuela well great to be with you matt um

00:05:27.840 absolutely i mean you know we all saw it coming i mean president trump is a fair man uh he's a patient

00:05:34.620 man but you know even his patients can be tested and you know he's got a great team with the secretary

00:05:40.100 of war secretary of state and everyone else that's involved uh there were obviously planning for

00:05:45.480 what ended up happening uh as you saw the vice president and a lot of us saw in media reports

00:05:51.900 maduro was given several off ramps i just think he poked the bear one too many times and never truly

00:05:59.380 believed uh that president trump would do what he ended up saying and uh you know secretary rubio said

00:06:05.500 you know uh president trump means what he says and says what he means and so what you saw was an

00:06:10.920 attempt by the administration one to give maduro an exit i know that you know what they wanted was

00:06:17.640 for venezuela to be free and for us to have the relations that we need to have to enable venezuelans

00:06:23.520 here in the united states to move back and obviously to have access to the oil not so much for the oil

00:06:28.700 that we want for ourselves because we've got plenty of it ourselves but to keep china iran and russia

00:06:34.840 our foes from you know taking so much of the oil from venezuela so they were obviously planning for

00:06:41.340 this uh they were uh had several contingencies for you know what the next day would look like

00:06:48.900 and and i truly believe i mean president trump was very clear uh we all love maria marina machado but

00:06:55.960 she's just not ready for prime time and she's been out of the country now she's been in hiding

00:07:00.360 and you know we had to look at someone uh that could stay in power and and keep the country

00:07:07.780 together uh and you know right now they saw what happened to their boss and so uh delci rodriguez

00:07:14.520 and her team are going to walk a very straight line and do exactly as they're told otherwise you

00:07:20.620 know they'll be joining president maduro uh in in new york at best

00:07:25.160 damien a lot of people are going to watch and listen to this and say who is this guy

00:07:32.180 who literally said weeks before uh that this was going to happen give our our listeners and our

00:07:37.760 viewers a little sense of your background uh the work you've done uh in and around the u.s

00:07:43.000 government and how that's interfaced with the major players in latin america

00:07:46.340 well i've got you know i i head the latin america advisory group i've been doing work in the region for

00:07:52.840 20 plus years i worked for many many years at the international republican institute leading the

00:07:59.200 latin america division uh where we work from chile to mexico and everywhere in between so i've got

00:08:05.380 plenty of experience a lot of the people that i've dealt with for the past 20 years i've sort of

00:08:09.980 risen through the ranks uh into positions of uh quite important in some countries uh i've done a lot

00:08:17.540 work as i said in mexico i'm very involved as you know matt and and el salvador i was working with

00:08:24.160 president bukele during his first election in 2019 uh when bukele was not neither a verb or a household

00:08:31.020 name uh and so i've sort of been able to identify who are the good folks in the region that are willing

00:08:37.700 to work with us and and what's happened in the last four years well now you know five years now but

00:08:44.340 the last years with president trump you had four years of the biden administration that not only

00:08:49.160 had a defeatist uh approach to the region but it sort of looked the other way and allowed china

00:08:55.560 to walk all over the hemisphere and so because of my connections with president mille in argentina

00:09:02.180 i'm the one who worked closely with incoming president cast in chile and bringing in to el salvador to visit

00:09:09.940 the famous prison of seacott uh so we're sort of working an evangelical approach uh to take back

00:09:18.340 the hemisphere this is our hemisphere as president trump has very eloquently said and through the

00:09:23.840 years and experience that i've had throughout the hemisphere i try to uh work and and advise

00:09:30.360 clients uh friends and i have a lot of friends in the u.s government right now at the state department

00:09:36.520 working in various areas of the building and other agencies and so i'm more of a boots on the ground

00:09:43.200 kind of guy i travel around the hemisphere i pick up on things i meet with the folks that a lot of

00:09:48.660 analysts only read about and so i'm able to give a different perspective uh to what's happening in the

00:09:55.020 region than what's either read on cables or what's seen on headlines and i truly enjoy doing what i do i

00:10:01.820 you know the hemisphere is our home and we're taking it back you know i'm going to bring into

00:10:08.720 the conversation now my co-host pearson sharp and pearson you and i have talked so frequently about

00:10:14.220 uh our critique of the neocon foreign policy the the the neoconservatives have drug our generation

00:10:22.540 into wars in afghanistan iraq uh they seem to want to uh uh defend every central asian cave

00:10:29.900 and every arabian desert and uh you know i wonder if there is a deviation from neoconservatism

00:10:37.800 but that also believes in a very robust presence in our own hemisphere you know damien makes this

00:10:44.160 argument that this is our home we have to care more about uh the consequences and outcomes that

00:10:50.580 are just uh hop skipping a jumping away then you know what's going on in taiwan or what's going on

00:10:56.860 in syria uh you know what i want you to reflect first on where you chart that viewpoint within the

00:11:04.160 you know not rand paul but not lindsey graham where you kind of see that in the political space and then

00:11:10.540 of course give you a chance to to to ask damien any questions you have i mean i i completely agree that

00:11:16.780 we should not be just running around the world willy-nilly policing everybody um there's a lot of

00:11:22.980 situations we should not be involved in syria libya iraq around obviously but it is different when

00:11:29.620 it's in our own backyard and i think we have a vested interest in what happens to our neighbors

00:11:36.240 because it directly affects us unlike syria and i think that if we can get rid of a communist regime

00:11:45.080 let's do it you know let's go down there and let's restore some peace and order

00:11:49.580 um i i'm full crusader mode on this like let's go in there let's change things up let's let's shift

00:11:56.480 them back and put america first policies in our backyard i think that's something that's absolutely

00:12:00.980 needs to happen honestly but my question is um can realistically what's the timeline here and and can

00:12:10.480 can venezuela be saved in a realistic way because when chavez took over you know he got rid of the

00:12:18.480 engineers he took over the farms he got rid of the the oil infrastructure he destroyed everything

00:12:23.000 it's what socialists do and i read one report that said that it would be it would take like 10 billion

00:12:28.460 dollars per year for the next 10 years to restore venezuela to where it was before the communists took

00:12:35.300 over and i'm just wondering do we have that kind of commitment uh prepared do we have the guts to stick

00:12:41.680 with it what's going to happen is it realistic to expect that venezuela can be saved at this point

00:12:46.460 well i mean going back to our it is our backyard i mean if your neighbor's house you know you live

00:12:53.960 in peace but he's doing all sorts of nefarious things you're going to do something and this is

00:12:58.480 what president trump did i mean absolutely this wasn't so much to say venezuela for venezuela's sake

00:13:03.220 this is affecting our own country you know with our interest drugs yeah our interest and so

00:13:08.980 obviously the oil industry has been completely decimated by the last 26 years of chavismo and maduro

00:13:16.040 regimes uh but i think it's there's so much oil i mean as we've heard the pundits and the reports

00:13:22.320 and everything you've seen uh 10 billion dollars a year is pretty much a drop in the bucket for the

00:13:28.640 oil industry today secretary wright was here in miami at a conference and i know there's reports that he

00:13:34.460 met with major oil uh ceos and and i think they're going to come together and rebuild that oil industry

00:13:41.700 and what we're going to have to do which was what happened before the chavismo and and and maduro came

00:13:46.640 into power so this was to benefit the people of venezuela and to benefit american companies which

00:13:52.480 in turn benefit you know the u.s taxpayer i mean there's a lot of money to be made and i think you

00:13:57.860 know it's going to take time everyone's sort of rushing to see where things are going i mean today's

00:14:04.080 wednesday this happened friday we're not even a week into this i and i think i think as as a

00:14:10.200 superpower we do have some obligation for humanitarian action in the world to save you know people who are

00:14:16.100 in a dire situation but i don't think that requires the united states to go in and just bolster third

00:14:21.880 world economies until they're flourishing again i don't think we have that obligation but to put it

00:14:27.120 in perspective you know we've sent ukraine 200 billion dollars in the last two or three years

00:14:34.080 so you're right i think 10 billion a year is a drop in the bucket i just don't think all of it should

00:14:39.080 be on us and like you said the oil industry is probably going to take over most of that it's just

00:14:43.220 it's crazy where we decide to put this money and it's such a good point yeah and i mean you think

00:14:50.740 about how many different neighbors close to home we could have shored up and secured how many

00:14:56.240 alliances like those with el salvador like those uh that we could have with with an emerging uh chile

00:15:02.720 or with melee and argentina but instead frankly wasted and and oftentimes put in the hands of people who

00:15:10.080 i fear don't have america's interests at heart and we're going to get into that later in our program but

00:15:15.800 you know damian i want to you talk to a lot of folks who uh are in the cia and who are around

00:15:22.640 the different uh achievements that have happened in venezuela to make this moment happen happen

00:15:27.680 is what you said about the development of civil society business relationships uh opportunities

00:15:34.320 for for economic prosperity is that what you think a cia officer is doing in venezuela today or if

00:15:41.120 if like what do you think they're actually doing day in day out to see that the country doesn't fall

00:15:47.300 into chaos and war yeah well they're probably not doing as much as people think they are

00:15:52.500 and they're doing more than than maybe some would hope uh but what i do think because a lot has been

00:15:58.660 said about president trump saying quote we are going to run venezuela and and i think he's right and when

00:16:04.980 he said that i mean what he means by that it's not that we're going to have u.s bureaucrats running the

00:16:09.340 different ministries this just means and we're already seeing it happen we're going to get this new

00:16:14.340 venezuelan leadership to do exactly as they are told or else you saw today 30 to 50 million barrels

00:16:20.820 of oil are coming to our shores uh from venezuela those funds are going to be used for the reconstruction

00:16:26.180 and i think they do have a plan i mean they didn't go into this thing they're not winging this uh

00:16:31.300 president trump as we said has a very good team i think their first the first wave of what they have

00:16:36.220 to do is they need to stabilize i mean you can't just take out the entire leadership i mean the

00:16:40.840 venezuelan military is very not very well trained but they're very well equipped and armed and you

00:16:46.440 know you had to have somebody there that could at least keep that together then we have a second

00:16:51.160 phase which is the recovery phase uh press i mean secretary ruby has talked about this today as he walked

00:16:56.920 out of the uh briefings he had in congress and later we're gonna have to have a transition at some point

00:17:03.160 there will have to have elections so i see i think uh the folks on the ground we have to reopen the

00:17:08.600 embassy in caracas we've had that closed for years now i think that's the first step you need to get

00:17:14.280 folks that are not necessarily from the cia but folks in the commerce department that are going to

00:17:19.480 help american companies re-establish take back what was taken from them but there's been a lot of

00:17:24.360 expropriations so i think you know we need to take a gradual approach to this transition back for

00:17:30.840 venezuela to be part of this normal you know world where there's no dictatorship there's no communism and

00:17:38.120 people are just too anxious to see things happen right away and we frankly need to be a little bit

00:17:44.280 more patient i think we're in the right direction and president trump has the right team to do this

00:17:49.640 so it's going to take some time we just have to make sure that as we progress and you know the days

00:17:55.400 turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months that we can keep a very tight leash on this new

00:18:01.480 government in venezuela and that they continue to do what we ask them to do just today you also saw

00:18:06.680 president trump announced they're going to be purchasing american equipment for agriculture

00:18:11.960 to rebuild their grid this is going to be great for american businesses as well i mean what you saw

00:18:17.560 in the last you know 26 years is all of the oil proceeds were going to chinese companies to russian

00:18:25.320 businesses and america was frankly left behind so president trump is an america first policy and it

00:18:32.200 starts with the rebuilding of venezuela with american companies and american oil companies but

00:18:37.640 construction companies agriculture energy it's got to be almost an extension of the united states to

00:18:44.840 help them build back their country we have no intentions of running venezuela we just have to

00:18:50.840 make sure that they stay in the right path so i know you said that that you know the government's

00:18:56.280 going to cooperate and delcy rodriguez came out and said that you know these very positive signals

00:19:00.440 that she's going to be cooperative but how much internal resistance do you think is going to happen

00:19:05.800 because when you have all these maduro cronies in place and these reports of uh gangs which is article

00:19:12.440 five that he called into action right before he left office and the police are arresting supporters of

00:19:18.120 you know people protesting and stuff how much internal resistance do you think is going to happen

00:19:21.640 uh to this new change well i think you know the the internal the powers that be everyone's as of right

00:19:30.760 now behaving because they saw what happened to dictator maduro and they don't want to be facing the same

00:19:36.920 fate as he did uh so i think you know part of what we need to do in working with this venezuelan

00:19:42.760 government is to show them that there is a path forward for them to you know live a normal life without

00:19:48.440 having to resort to thuggish ways i mean i think uh the way that the approach that we're taking you

00:19:55.240 know it's the carrot and the stick i mean they have to do they have to behave because there will be

00:20:01.000 consequences and as time goes by and hopefully you know there's progress uh there's you know economic

00:20:07.800 opportunities the economy starts to move again they'll start to realize that it's in their interest

00:20:14.280 to do the right thing just because it's it's in their own best interest but in the meantime you've

00:20:20.440 got to you know keep them under threat that if they don't do as they're told there will be consequences

00:20:26.520 and i think president trump has showed that you know you don't mess around uh with him so you think

00:20:31.560 these motorcycle gangs you're running around policing people you think that's not going to be an issue

00:20:35.880 it'll go away or i think eventually they'll just stop i mean remembering all those motorcycle gangs

00:20:42.200 were being funded with you know money from the manure regime you know they're not going to have

00:20:47.400 access remember the economy is collapsing yeah part of the success uh that the trump administration

00:20:53.960 implemented was this blockade remember we started you know um taking oil tankers uh then oil tankers

00:21:01.800 were afraid to go in tankers weren't coming out you know production of oil production was coming

00:21:08.040 almost to a near standstill which was going to be catastrophic uh you know for the industry and

00:21:15.320 you know this is part of what needs to be rebuilt i think the the hard currency that was made available

00:21:21.560 to keep these motorcycle gangs is quickly going to disappear i mean we saw a lot of this i mean it's

00:21:28.200 much different case but in el salvador eventually all the gangs that were extorting uh you know initially

00:21:35.640 they stopped doing it because they got thrown in jail and the few that were able to avoid uh being

00:21:41.320 caught just integrated into society uh because of fear of being uh arrested right i would dare say

00:21:48.520 many of those have now found out they can live a normal life without having to resort to you know

00:21:54.920 a thug life and so that's you know but it takes years it's just not the the problem is especially in

00:22:00.920 the media and the electoral cycles there's very little patience uh for things to to take place

00:22:07.160 but i believe we're in the right direction and i trust that president trump with uh secretary rubio

00:22:12.680 hexa and the whole team uh are you know implementing the right strategy they've been thinking about this

00:22:18.040 for months this was just as we saw reports that they built a a samp a you know a home just like the

00:22:25.400 one maduro lived in uh in uh here in the u.s at a in a military base uh they were running uh different

00:22:32.600 scenarios as to what could happen the day after maduro was gone and so they're prepared for for

00:22:38.360 many different scenarios and contingencies i'm so excited when we get our merriweather farm shipments

00:22:44.760 in you get a beautiful piece of rib eye look look at that marbling now i take it out of the package

00:22:50.440 let it get down to room temperature all i've got on here is a little salt a little pepper and then a

00:22:55.080 little avocado oil and then i've had my pan preheating with a little oil

00:23:05.720 head to merriweatherfarms.com and enter promo code matt g for 15 off your first order

00:23:14.120 you know damien it is really a different demonstration of american power than we saw in

00:23:20.360 iraq where they rooted out all of the baathists and i really do think this is an effort at a new

00:23:29.560 2026 version of colonialism where there is benefit to people who are liberated from a communist

00:23:36.280 dictatorship but there is also a resource extraction for the benefit of the liberator and striking that

00:23:42.840 balance indeed will be challenging and we're glad that such an incredible team has planned it but you

00:23:48.520 called the shot and so we knew you would bring us up to speed damien merlo latin america expert

00:23:53.880 thanks for coming on the program and breaking it down for us my friend thanks for having me

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00:24:49.960 welcome back to the show my name is pearson sharp with my co-host matt gates and i am returning from

00:24:59.080 russia and i earlier this year last year i guess this point man it's been a long time and i did a

00:25:05.480 documentary a film documentary about uh the war in ukraine and uh russia's involvement and

00:25:13.160 everything that's happening there that you don't see here in the united states or really anywhere in

00:25:17.720 the west and it's really not it's really not something that's that difficult anybody could go

00:25:23.720 there and do it russia doesn't make this difficult but nobody is going there and that's the surprising

00:25:29.480 thing everybody there when i was when i was in donbass and really everywhere in russia was very

00:25:35.080 welcoming was very accommodating was thrilled to have me there frankly uh they all said they

00:25:41.160 love president trump they love america and they don't understand why we're fighting um which is just

00:25:46.760 an absolute shame they don't view us as enemies and they're shocked that we feel that way about them

00:25:51.960 um the the most tragic part obviously is always the cost to human lives and the suffering and that was

00:26:03.480 everywhere when i was traveling through donbass for me being a father the hardest part is always seeing

00:26:12.920 when the children are suffering or when they're hurt and i visited several memorial sites that were

00:26:20.680 beyond words beyond description it was absolutely gutting to watch what was happening there one of

00:26:26.440 them was um in the school in gorlovka which was only about five kilometers if i remember correctly from

00:26:34.600 the front lines at that point and this place had been absolutely devastated by the war it was hit

00:26:39.160 something like 20 000 times in the last three years alone by shelling from the ukrainians because it's

00:26:45.560 russian-occupied territory they're not bombing themselves so these were all ukrainian

00:26:49.800 attacks on this town and the cost for these civilians was beyond comprehension and at the

00:26:57.560 school they had a memorial set up for some of the children who were killed and that was it was

00:27:05.000 heartbreaking and they took me down into the basement of the school which was this bomb shelter

00:27:11.240 and you could see where the the children actually stayed during raids you know they had desks set up

00:27:17.240 chairs were up against the wall it felt like a tomb honestly and i'm sure in some cases it was

00:27:24.040 but we got to go down there and see how these kids were forced to live uh because you know at that at

00:27:31.000 that point the president of ukraine before zelinski portoshenko had said you know we're going to force

00:27:36.840 these russians to hide in basements we're going to force the children of these people in donbass to

00:27:42.120 hide in basements and that's how we're going to win the war and that's what they did so uh here's a

00:27:48.360 little clip that we can play from uh from that school we're here in the basement of a school which

00:27:56.360 is being used as a shelter every school in this area in donbass has these kinds of shelters and

00:28:02.600 the kids sadly routinely use them schools in this area have been hit so many times and this is the kind of

00:28:09.240 thing it's not being reported but for the people who live here this is daily life these kids spend

00:28:15.240 time down here but unfortunately a lot of them have been living remotely they can't even come to

00:28:20.040 school because the schools have been hit so many times but these shelters are still here just in case

00:28:24.920 and they have been used frequently

00:28:29.720 that was that was one of the most poignant things that i took away from this trip

00:28:33.480 was just the the evidence of the suffering i gotta say pearson watching that it makes me wonder the

00:28:41.080 extent to which these type of really psychological attacks because in addition to it being a kinetic

00:28:46.520 attack when you're hitting schools when you're hitting children there's very much a psychological

00:28:50.840 component to it how's that being received and and is it driving up the war fatigue uh on the russian side

00:28:58.680 uh absolutely and when you're it's one thing when you're when you volunteer for a militia or you sign

00:29:08.600 up you know as a man to go fight that's one thing because you believe in your country and you think it's

00:29:14.280 the right thing to do it's another when you're just a family you're a father and your home is bombed and

00:29:22.920 your child loses her leg or your wife is killed and that's what's happening there because the front

00:29:32.440 lines of this war are in people's homes in these areas and you can't think about the american funding

00:29:40.840 for the weapons doing that i mean you're there looking at places that are being bombed out by weapons

00:29:46.200 that are funded by america and and and europe right they are and we went to in uh donetsk we went to

00:29:54.440 this world war ii museum uh that was honoring the you know the soviet soldiers who fought in the great

00:30:00.440 war and part of the museum was dedicated to the ongoing war in donetsk and donbas and they had areas

00:30:08.360 where they had captured weapons and munitions from the war and there were american-made javelins

00:30:15.960 i mean it had the american flag right on there they had american-made drones that had gone in

00:30:21.800 and were either shot down or exploded and they recovered the wreckage but you could see these

00:30:25.720 drones with american flags on them you know it was it it felt like when i was in syria again and i knew

00:30:35.720 that you know our our government was bombing these people over there it's another case of why are we

00:30:42.920 why are we involved what are we doing i mean this is causing needless suffering and you know joe biden

00:30:48.680 started this war without question and now president trump is trying to wrap it up but it's not easy and

00:30:55.320 we're still sending funding over there and it's just it's hard to wrap your head around

00:31:01.720 and and try and justify when you're there with these people and you know this is your country that this

00:31:07.080 this these weapons have come from that have caused all this suffering

00:31:13.720 yeah i think you've got a clip where some of these folks reflect on their various loyalties right to

00:31:19.640 to russia versus ukraine uh what can you tell us about that yeah well in there's a couple of those

00:31:29.160 actually um in in gorlovka we let's watch one okay sure yeah uh i just introduced real quick in gorlovka

00:31:37.080 we walked down the street and we met this uh this old man uh named vladimir and he was in this bombed

00:31:43.320 out building and he came down to talk to us and you know the war was all over his face and and the kinds

00:31:51.640 of things that he had lived through it was it's unbelievable we can we can play it

00:31:55.160 okay he told me he believed that if ukrainian forces returned he wouldn't survive

00:32:11.880 i mean for these people there is no doubt in their mind this was one of the most telling parts of the

00:32:29.640 movie uh the the documentary you produced because it it shows a vision of how people affected by this

00:32:37.240 war and living around this war are seeing the different countries and all we hear about in

00:32:43.160 western media is that like ukraine is the great liberator russia is the great aggressor uh you know

00:32:49.720 how how did how did this moment open your eyes to to something very different this wasn't a headline

00:32:56.280 from someone at a studio in new york you know this is a guy who was actually living there and you could

00:33:03.800 tell he genuinely believed that if ukraine came back to this area that would be it for him i mean

00:33:09.400 the persecution against the people who stood with russia would be undeniable um and and you know a lot

00:33:17.880 of people argue very reasonably that yanukovych was not a good president he was actually a very bad

00:33:23.080 president but as uh as alexander dugan told me even if he was a bad president he was elected by the people

00:33:30.280 he was the legitimate ruler of ukraine and he was forced out and these people said that

00:33:36.680 vladimir the guy i just talked to said that you know life was pretty good under him you know we

00:33:40.840 weren't harassed we could live normally everything was fine um and he said unequivocally what do they

00:33:48.280 think that the ukrainians will do to them pearson well i i think they'd be killed i think they'd absolutely

00:33:53.720 be shot they'd be rounded up and shot and we have evidence of this in places like bucha where

00:34:00.440 people wearing white armbands you know it was a russian occupied town and people wearing white

00:34:05.720 armbands which is the sign that you support russia once ukraine came in and russia left

00:34:12.040 they released ukraine themselves released videos of all these people with white armbands lying dead in

00:34:16.280 the street and they weren't there when the russians left like the day before so i think we know for a

00:34:21.720 fact that these people any supporters any dissidents anyone who showed any support for russia would be

00:34:27.720 shot ended up in a camp somewhere it would be very bad and so he said unequivocally like like

00:34:32.680 the other people there i talked to that donbass is part of russia and it will never be part of ukraine

00:34:39.400 and again these are their words not mine but that is what they said and i have no doubt in my mind they

00:34:45.160 believe that wow well it it is uh an ethnically russian area and that is lost on a lot of us

00:34:54.680 policymakers and you know the uh the possibility for a preserved ukraine probably demands acknowledging

00:35:03.800 some of those those realities what have you got next for us well i was actually able to talk

00:35:09.320 with uh alexander dugan um who's a he's a very controversial figure in america and russia a lot

00:35:17.080 of people over here it threatens nuclear war a lot you know a little much for me with like the threats

00:35:23.560 of nuclear war from this guy but you got a big interview you got he does but uh putin also suggested

00:35:30.440 that before he said it and he he did point that out um and medvedev has also mentioned that but

00:35:36.600 anyway i do think that gets thrown around i don't think putin has any intention of using nuclear weapons

00:35:42.760 personally and i don't think he thinks we'll ever come to that point um but anyway i was able to speak

00:35:48.680 with dugan and uh people over here call him putin's brain and that's not that's not accurate he is in

00:35:55.400 russia i've learned that people consider him more of an extremist however he is influential and he

00:36:00.520 does represent a large uh a large part of russia's viewpoint very traditional very conservative

00:36:08.680 uh so anyway i was able to interview him we can see that now trump said many times it wasn't that

00:36:16.360 isn't his war it was biden's war this war was started by deep state by globalists by ultra liberal

00:36:25.240 so who are the enemy of maga who are the enemy of trump they hate traditional values christianity

00:36:33.560 independence sovereignty and greatness they put a huge amount of money in order to subvert

00:36:40.200 the ukrainian regime to organize a legal revolution coup against um legitimate president maybe he was

00:36:48.760 bad president but he was still elected by the people

00:36:55.880 you know pearson he seems to be making an argument of cultural alignment which is very interesting and

00:37:02.360 an appeal to president trump to not be bound by some of the messes that biden made stumbling us into this

00:37:09.080 war first let's talk about that cultural alignment you've now spent a good amount of time in russia you

00:37:15.320 know are these folks that that do believe in the type of values around family and faith uh that that

00:37:22.520 a lot of americans would embrace and indeed celebrate from what i saw yes you know i didn't talk to

00:37:29.000 everybody in russia but i was shocked that's the next trip right i was shocked by the level of

00:37:38.360 traditionalism over there i think we still have a cold war mindset that russia is this bastion

00:37:43.720 of communism and anti-american ideals but it's really not in fact i i would argue that it's flipped

00:37:50.440 i'd say there's more communism going on in america than in russia at this point and i think people like

00:37:56.680 putin and people like dugan um look at russia as a kind well to use dugan's words it's kind of an arc

00:38:07.800 of traditional christian culture and they see it as their obligation to defend the christian faith

00:38:13.720 against this liberalism of the west and i think that's a good thing and i think a lot of conservatives

00:38:21.240 a lot of people from maga who have kind of stumbled into the anti-russian mindset would agree with a lot

00:38:29.720 of the things a lot of the beliefs the ideas that most russians seem to have very traditional very

00:38:36.200 conservative very christian the orthodox faith it's not like it is over here like as far as christianity

00:38:44.280 goes where people are sort of you know christmas and easter are sort of christians like it's an

00:38:50.440 everyday constant sort of thing among everybody that i talked to i think i only met one person who

00:38:56.360 wasn't really christian over there um but it's their their faith is deeply part of their daily lives and

00:39:02.840 i mean i think president trump would respect that i i think he understands that honestly well hold

00:39:08.360 on i want to ask a question about about this faith and and government thesis because we saw it result

00:39:14.680 in quite a dust-up on capitol hill uh on a paulina luna congresswoman from florida invited you know

00:39:22.120 russian orthodox christians to the capitol for meetings about how american christians and russian christians

00:39:29.880 could have friendly relations and then fellow republican joe wilson of south carolina criticized her

00:39:36.920 criticized them yes said that the uh there is no separation between the church and the state there

00:39:45.160 and that these were all basically russian spies uh did did you observe in your time in russia uh that

00:39:51.480 type of of of a link or is is the church still about the church and is the government still about the

00:39:57.080 affairs of man i mean it's it's i from what i saw it was totally separate these are people who are

00:40:04.120 devoutly christian but still see their obligation to run their nation i wouldn't say secularly because

00:40:12.040 i think like our founding fathers i think the way our country is is written and meant to be run is from

00:40:19.000 a christian point of view um but it's still independent you know as far as the way the laws i've got

00:40:27.160 another question i've got another question about that clip with with dugan he talks about the globalists

00:40:33.320 and this this evil force that the united states and russia have to align together to fight against

00:40:39.960 like be granular be specific who do you think he's actually talking about there well one of them is so

00:40:49.640 you go up to the average person here in america and you say who's george soros no i don't know you go

00:40:55.800 to a gas station in the middle of siberia and ask the attendant who george soros was and he'll spit on the

00:41:01.000 ground like everybody in russia knows who soros is and they hate wow they absolutely despise him

00:41:08.600 and i think for very good reasons like he is a face of a lot of the evil that has happened all around

00:41:15.240 the world but especially in russia and to russia you know these these people like him who engineer

00:41:21.000 these conflicts in ukraine directly you know with his ties to zalinsky i mean this is

00:41:26.760 is it it's hard to separate people like him from this conflict and so when they're talking about

00:41:32.360 that i think he's directly talking about soros uh the deep state here in the united states

00:41:38.760 the joe wilson's who obviously want the war to continue i mean it's everywhere it's not just one

00:41:44.760 person it uh um what's her name obviously victoria newland but um the the lady in charge of the eu

00:41:52.280 parliament um ursula von der leyen her all these people who have a vested interest in keeping this

00:41:58.440 war going that's who he's talking about well and you actually have in this documentary uh some sound

00:42:06.760 from a leaked phone call set that up for us yes so despite having john mccain and lindsey graham and

00:42:15.800 everybody going over to ukraine in 2013 and 2014 and showboating about how this was a grassroots

00:42:22.440 operation and and the people are rising up against the corruption you literally had george soros propping

00:42:28.200 up uh the industry to overthrow the ukrainian government to the tune of a hundred million

00:42:33.400 dollars there was a clip of him admitting to doing that um and so we have a phone call from victoria

00:42:39.800 newland who's never seen a regime change that she didn't want to be a part of

00:42:44.360 going on this phone call uh with it was one american diplomat i can't remember his name

00:42:50.520 but anyway talking about hey you know when we get rid of yanukovych who should we put in charge you

00:42:55.560 know i think it should be yatsinyuk that's who i think should be in charge so we can we can play it now

00:43:00.920 i don't think cleach should go into the government i don't think it's necessary i don't think it's a good

00:43:04.600 idea i think yats is the guy who's got the economic experience the governing experience what he needs

00:43:10.360 is cleach and tawny book on the outside i just think cleach going in he's going to be at that level

00:43:15.960 working for yatsinyuk it's just not going to work and you know the EU

00:43:20.200 these people think they are they can play god with who is running these governments yes and it it is

00:43:32.520 not about democracy it is not about alignment with the west it is about alignment with their own

00:43:37.640 agendas that that is what i hear in that clip yes and i know there are people who disagree i know there

00:43:44.840 are people who uh like we have never trumpers here they have never putins and it doesn't matter what

00:43:51.480 you say or show them it won't change their minds but to the best of my ability i laid out in this film

00:43:59.240 the process by which western governments and especially the united states helped overthrow

00:44:05.880 the ukrainian government and to my mind i don't know how you could see this train of evidence and

00:44:14.440 dismiss it and not see how we were directly responsible for the chaos that has ensued from day

00:44:20.840 one we were involved in fomenting violence in in stirring the uprising of these people in paying

00:44:28.920 agitators in allegedly using snipers to attack crowds of people to instigate an uprising and get

00:44:38.840 yanukovych out of office it's not proven but evidence and ballistics show that the snipers came from

00:44:46.040 the building controlled by the the coalition which was on the u.s side so the level of evidence that we

00:44:53.160 have that this was not a grassroots uprising is for me undeniable and i think the kinds of people involved

00:45:00.840 in this like you said just want to play god this is you know they are godless and so they want to be gods and

00:45:06.840 this is how they do it man wow well uh incredible tell us uh tell us where your reporting took you next

00:45:16.120 well um actually this would actually be a great place we have another soundbite from uh

00:45:22.680 from lindsey graham sorry we could play that here oh yes let's go your fight is our fight all of us

00:45:31.480 will go back to washington and we will push the case against russia and vladimir putin if he succeeds

00:45:38.840 here he will succeed in other countries so that's their that's their line your fight is our fight yeah

00:45:47.640 wow your fight is our fight like let me just tell you something that is not a winning message in the

00:45:52.360 midterms you are not going to go to scranton pennsylvania you're not going to go to orange county

00:45:57.400 california you're not going to go to the hudson valley in new york and say to people that the the

00:46:03.640 fight going on over the black sea the fight going on over crimea dombas mario pole odessa is somehow

00:46:11.080 their fight their fight is their grocery bill right their fight is not having fentanyl uh in the lockers

00:46:17.640 where they send their kids to a public school where they're hoping that the teacher isn't some

00:46:22.600 pansexual trying to talk more about radical gender theory than multiplication tables and you know

00:46:29.000 that is just the i i that grates me so hard pearson because i am in the same party with these people

00:46:35.880 i understand i have to work with them i i don't want to be negative to my fellow republicans but that is

00:46:41.880 what that is how we lose that that is how we lost the country to obama twice and they want to take

00:46:49.080 this thing back over in a post trump world but uh i think president trump's had an indelible imprint

00:46:55.800 on our movement but you know the the uh rage baiting that you do putting that in the film is is noted by

00:47:03.240 the by this viewer well i'm actually curious because i'm curious about your point of view on this because

00:47:09.640 you have an insight on lindsey graham that none of us do i'm just curious what you think the motivation

00:47:17.400 here is why why is he like this why is he doing this

00:47:23.960 in washington dc one way to be a made man one way to have everybody tell you that you're terrific

00:47:31.720 and patriotic and that that all the things you do for service you know really are paid off

00:47:37.960 is if you can be for the wars if you can be for every war and every engagement that creates a massive

00:47:45.560 pool of unaccounted for money right they they call it overseas contingency operations during

00:47:52.760 big swaths of the global war on terror and if you create trillions of dollars of unaccounted for money

00:48:00.520 they love you in washington and some people who who um you know who don't have other other fulfillment

00:48:09.880 put that love at the center of their life it is the center of their life they will do anything for

00:48:14.520 it they will betray their voters for it they will give themselves tougher elections for it because

00:48:18.760 that is their community that is who they serve so it's as simple then as money and power

00:48:26.440 yeah and and the need for adoration from people who have it right i'm not suggesting that all these

00:48:32.920 people are getting bribes or payoffs though that there are a lot of campaign funds and super packs that

00:48:39.560 uh wane or swell based on whether people are voting for the wars but i think this is something with a

00:48:46.760 certain sect of them that is more central and that is their their deep deep need to have washington

00:48:55.880 like them and if you are for the wars that is one way to achieve it soulless frankly um there's another

00:49:04.520 good clip i have um i want to put on before we go there are obviously extremists on both sides but

00:49:13.720 as far as supporting the war being against the war but i think the propaganda around we have to support

00:49:22.520 ukraine or you're anti-american if you don't support ukraine i think among the younger generation

00:49:27.480 especially that is breaking down and i was very surprised that when i was in russia in nizhny

00:49:35.320 novgorod we went to a training camp out in the forest and at this military training camp i actually

00:49:41.800 found an american he was a young guy probably like 23 i think um and i got to talk to him and he had

00:49:49.800 some interesting things to say about why he was there we can play that i believe nato is on the wrong

00:49:54.600 side of history russia is absolutely on the current side right the ukrainian state is a terrorist state

00:49:59.720 they kill people like me they put bounties on them i have a friend there's a bounty on them right now

00:50:04.360 russia wants to protect uh people that are russian ethically they speak the russian language in ukraine

00:50:11.320 and they feel oppressed they're getting killed that's the mission of russia is to liberate the

00:50:15.880 people in their land that are russian so he wasn't the only person that i heard say stuff like that

00:50:24.760 there was another girl i interviewed uh who also called ukraine a terrorist state i thought that was

00:50:29.480 interesting but i think americans especially young americans are abandoning this ukraine first this

00:50:37.160 foreign nation first uh ideology that the left has been ramming down our throats

00:50:42.680 you may be the only journalist i know or speak to who firmly believes and you've been very consistent

00:50:52.280 on this point that the way this war ends is kiev falls and ukraine is essentially part of russia in

00:51:01.320 in one form or another uh is that still your view and if so how long do you think it will take to

00:51:07.880 achieve that end state that's a tough one i might be optimistic about this i think

00:51:19.400 watching trump and putin together i still have a strong feeling that they both understand what's

00:51:25.080 happening and that they are in control and that they can bring this together peacefully i think that's

00:51:32.040 a possibility and i'd like to believe that's what's going to happen uh i have a friend in russia who's

00:51:40.120 fairly well connected um and what's going on with the political world um and involved somewhat with

00:51:46.680 the kremlin and from what he's hearing and what he genuinely believes is that we'll have a resolution to

00:51:52.840 this this spring possibly by april is what you're saying um that pearson sharp giving you the cliffhanger at

00:52:01.240 the end of the episode calling his shot for a spring resolution of this war it is an incredible piece

00:52:07.160 of journalism it is the best piece of journalism i've seen in 2026 no doubt folks can get it if they

00:52:13.000 get the oan live app oann.com pearson sharp great work thanks for coming on anchorman and uh and sharing

00:52:20.600 it with our entire audience here uh we'll be back next week and make sure to leave us a review give us a

00:52:27.560 five-star rating and we'll be back for the next show want to see more great videos like this click

00:52:33.480 on the link below to subscribe to oan live and watch dan ball's real america and the matt gates show

00:52:38.520 on dish channel 212. tune in subscribe and watch today

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - January 09, 2026

The Anchormen Show Episode 91 - From Caracas to Kiev： What Comes Next w： Damian Merlo & Pearson Sharp

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