The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz

00:00:00.000 now it's time for the anchorman podcast with matt gates and dan ball

00:00:11.340 welcome back to our anchorman program i'm matt gates host the mac gate show here on one america

00:00:25.160 news you can catch our program nine o'clock eastern six o'clock central and this is a fun

00:00:30.300 little project we do with some of the brilliant folks who hang out here at one america news all

00:00:34.980 day we're going to talk about some of the issues of the day i am joined as always by my friend and

00:00:40.320 on again off again employee vish burrah he was the founding producer of bannon's war room he's now a

00:00:45.100 producer on the mac gate show and also served on congressional hill as a staffer and then the host

00:00:50.960 of the sharp report rejoins us pearson sharp you can catch his terrific investigative reporting

00:00:56.140 opinion news analysis all here on one america news and there is a lot going on but the reason i wanted

00:01:03.400 pearson on he sent me on our buddy text chain a ron de santis take on the activities we've seen

00:01:11.920 recently in the congress and i want to hear from the governor get pearson's reaction and then talk

00:01:18.160 about it governor ron de santis you know elon musk uh went into this doge effort uh he was getting

00:01:26.120 lampooned i mean like they're firebombing his tesla dealerships media smearing him relentlessly

00:01:32.520 uh his businesses suffered all this stuff because he basically said look we can't keep doing this

00:01:39.080 uh we need to moderate and reduce the amount of money that the federal government is spending and yet

00:01:45.480 we have a republican congress and to this day we're in the the end of may past memorial day

00:01:52.020 and not one cent in doge cuts have been implemented by the congress doge and elon were on a collision

00:02:00.140 course with the swamp and the question is what would happen and i don't think there's any question that

00:02:05.400 uh doge fought the swamp and so far the swamp has won

00:02:10.320 pearson did this speak right to your soul and why

00:02:15.540 yes but coming from florida i'm sure you have a a more nuanced position and opinion on de santis

00:02:26.040 but i think what he says makes a lot of sense at least on the surface i know you're going to talk

00:02:31.660 about that um i think we as voters have been at least i have been disappointed that the two trillion

00:02:40.240 in cuts that we were promised have been steadily whittled down to almost nothing what is 170 billion

00:02:47.120 i think right now is the latest figure um that's great but we have 36 trillion in debt like that's

00:02:54.060 less than a drop in the bucket so i think what he's saying makes a lot of sense and musk has been

00:03:01.280 turned into kind of a whipping boy as as he said you know his project went out there to fix all these

00:03:08.380 legitimate problems that we have with our government number one being this out of control spending

00:03:12.560 this debt is killing us two billion dollars a day a trillion dollars a year that's unsustainable we

00:03:18.460 can't fix that um so i think what he set out to do was wonderful and the fact that we can't get

00:03:25.080 the republicans to get behind it is very telling i think a lot of these republicans are you know

00:03:30.360 democrats with a red suit and we've got to fix that we can't go on like this okay so before we

00:03:36.780 get to vicious take do you grant de santis's core premise that elon fought the swamp and the swamp won

00:03:44.900 well i don't think the battle's over yet but at this point elon has definitely taken a step back

00:03:51.520 i mean he said so himself he said you know i tried my best and i think he has

00:03:56.100 um he's lost a lot of support from people who i think never really supported him they did on paper

00:04:02.100 because it was what trump did and what trump wanted but i don't think he's given up i think we still have

00:04:07.860 a chance but we need to push for it and we need to hold people accountable who should be fighting for

00:04:12.120 the same things that we're fighting for but there's some who would say that the passage of this

00:04:16.720 government funding legislation that doesn't bake in the doge cuts forever more right is the seminal

00:04:25.640 moment yeah it is it is the make or break did this sink in did this really happen because i remember

00:04:33.100 and you remember all of these members of congress saying oh i'm in the doge caucus and here's my selfie

00:04:40.180 with elon and here's my repost of elon at cpac with a chainsaw and i am totally here for this

00:04:48.020 and then you know what it got real it totally weren't and then it got real and then you saw

00:04:53.240 the bureaucrats actually packing up their boxes at usa id you actually saw the divisions of the

00:04:58.700 department of education that were going to be shut down we actually started having real conversations

00:05:02.240 yeah about sending food stamps and other uh public welfare programs to the states rather than having

00:05:09.580 all the federal strings attached and these people blinked they totally blinked and it wasn't elon's

00:05:15.740 fault and it wasn't trump's fault trump would have signed any government funding bill probably that they

00:05:19.600 would send him that had the tax cuts in it and a lot of the pro-growth policies has been fighting for

00:05:23.920 but it's congress that has shown the unwillingness to make the cuts so so so in in in that respect

00:05:30.480 you look at de sanis and you see what in his in his reflection in in this manner well he's just

00:05:37.880 calling out what the rest of us are seeing at least what i'm seeing and what we've talked about

00:05:41.820 ad nauseum i like every time we talk we bring this up and he's just pointing that out that we have this

00:05:48.000 big problem and uh musk himself said that he was disappointed in trump's bill he said you know we've

00:05:54.040 got 36 trillion and this adds another 3.1 trillion at least and i don't know if the tax cuts and everything

00:05:59.320 else the growth measures are going to make up for that in the long run well yeah let me be straight with

00:06:02.880 you and the audience we are going to 50 trillion in debt there is not a single person who has

00:06:08.740 proposed a single plan that has been voted on even one time in the house or senate that would that would

00:06:15.000 ameliorate that eventuality i think about a country that's 50 trillion dollars in debt and i think about

00:06:22.340 a country that doesn't own its own future exactly so so that's by the bank that's a really foreign

00:06:26.920 interests but but chomping at the bit is political operative information warfare extraordinary

00:06:33.520 and while you and i are having a reasonable high-minded debate about the critical importance

00:06:38.680 of reducing federal spending vish sees ron de santis in that video and he makes a crass cold political

00:06:47.200 uh calculation vish burrow what do you see this uh these comments by ron de santis uh this is

00:06:54.880 basically him angling and making an overture to elon musk to be his number one uh funder for the

00:07:03.620 2028 primary campaign he's going to wage against jd so you believe this is the first chess move in in

00:07:10.500 the big battle for the elon 2028 endorsement well i don't think it's the first chess move but i think

00:07:16.040 this is the chess move a big chess move that shows that he's going for the big we all saw yes that we

00:07:21.740 all saw and it's clear as day i mean look it's all i think it's also disingenuous that that ron that

00:07:28.920 ron is going out and saying that mainly because if ron de santis was in the congress today right now

00:07:36.340 and he had to vote on that bill totally would have voted for he would have voted for it hundred percent

00:07:40.580 so and because and why is that because ron de santis is a normal politician who will who all the same

00:07:48.480 normal political pressures applied to him and affect him just like every other normal politician

00:07:54.080 we know you were so inspired to hear governor de santis wax poetic about these reductions when you

00:08:00.020 hear us say that he would definitely have voted for that bill does it does it hurt this is it doesn't

00:08:04.700 hurt and it makes sense but this is where you know when you and i had these conversations and i talked

00:08:08.500 with you i told you this earlier i feel like you know you guys you see the inside of the political

00:08:13.220 machine you know how the gears operate and i feel like a country bumpkin you know when we talk about

00:08:17.660 this stuff because i'm just looking at it john's value public man and i'm like hey yeah de santis

00:08:21.960 said he's disappointed in this i'm disappointed in this i agree with that and you're over here like

00:08:27.260 that snake i mean look it's true and i gotta pull on the string though here uh-huh is he the front

00:08:36.360 runner for the elon endorsement for 2028 well you know what he was the front runner for the elon

00:08:41.560 endorsement in 2024 he was remember when ron de santis made an announcement or was going to

00:08:47.460 announce his campaign yeah he uh was going to do it on twitter on whose space elon musk space the

00:08:54.940 space that would eventually crash but nonetheless it was elon was already ready for de santis back in

00:09:01.560 2024 yeah i think he's definitely at least primed for it in 2028 and uh i think that this also gets to

00:09:10.020 elon's uh you know i guess you could say ego where he wants to i'm sure elon wants to see the doge

00:09:15.380 cuts because they are a good thing and wants to see those things codified that's a that's sincere

00:09:20.240 patriotism yeah that is from my view yes but like there's also you know on some personal level he

00:09:25.480 wants to see that through or wants another shot at it and i think he would see if ron de santis is

00:09:30.780 getting and putting that up as a priority he would he would get behind ron take though yeah but again

00:09:36.860 this is with the intent of primarying jd vance and chipping off the fiscal conservatives the thomas

00:09:43.700 massey's of the world the chip roy's of the world the dana lesh nate never trump kind of uh well

00:09:50.080 cohort there that are that fiscal conservatism is like top priority for them it's meant to chip off

00:09:55.700 that block yeah i was gonna i was gonna jump on that and say that that your take assumes that

00:10:00.300 de santis thinks that vance is not going to be in the running oh he's going to hang it around his

00:10:05.340 neck he's going to but de santis is going to hang this bill around vance's neck and say you were

00:10:10.340 the guy who helped pass this monstrosity of a bill and ran us up into this dead and with all these

00:10:15.440 deficits it's it's it i could see it clear as day up in here you know i i would be advising him to do

00:10:22.160 that so so let's let's survey this question then among us in the 2028 presidential primary

00:10:28.800 is the big beautiful bill gonna be popular and something to run on unpopular and something to run

00:10:36.980 away from or just white noise and not really a defining characteristic of that election which do

00:10:43.220 you take this it'll be white noise if there's no primary challenger to jady vance pearson yeah i think

00:10:49.500 it's going to end up being white noise but i think for people who pay attention like us it's going to

00:10:54.040 remain a disappointment because this is not what i wanted so so i actually i actually think that

00:11:00.140 somebody's going to have to cast a vision beyond what this bill delivers us another way of agreeing

00:11:06.520 with pearson there that if what you're running on is this stuff um you know it's not going to be

00:11:12.900 something that draws people in to uh to a coalition for the future and right now we're in this moment

00:11:21.560 right you know congress passes the the big beautiful bill in the house they go on break

00:11:27.280 and they start having their town halls and you start to see whether or not people are running

00:11:33.860 toward this bill or away from it and what i can see is that there are a lot of people who voted for

00:11:40.220 this legislation who then sort of run against it in their rhetoric well sure i voted for it we needed

00:11:47.240 to advance the trump agenda didn't want to stand in the way of passage but it drives up the debt but

00:11:53.280 it fails to do the doge stuff but it doesn't include rescissions but it still does too much of

00:11:58.980 the green new deal so let me guess do you need another two years to try to get it done this time

00:12:04.080 you know like that's like here to donate yeah that's a it's it's not of course they're just going to

00:12:09.460 talk i think that there's a fatigue amongst the american public that's setting in that understands

00:12:15.260 we're never going to get these cuts and again it goes back to my point that's why everyone's kind of

00:12:19.160 on the dole on the take on on this stuff where it's where the mentality is if i can if i'm never

00:12:24.660 going to get the cuts that i'm being promised for from my politicians the you know the cuts in the

00:12:29.240 government then i'm just gonna no yeah what good are they what i'm just gonna you know i i'd rather

00:12:33.520 some of that money come to me instead and i'll vote for these guys if they give it to me i want to ask

00:12:38.500 you though you were you were on the inside you were probably in this position before so these people

00:12:44.160 you were talking about where they don't agree with the bill but they feel compelled to vote for it

00:12:49.580 how does that work like what do you do in that position well in the house of representatives where

00:12:55.400 you have 435 people no one really believes they can go at it alone so whenever you want to demand

00:13:02.580 a change to a particular bill the first thing you need is at least one other person in the body

00:13:09.300 who will uh you know sort of lash themselves to your fate and say i'm with you unless xyz change

00:13:17.620 happens in the legislation if you go in wanting you know 30 40 50 changes oftentimes you're unable to

00:13:25.860 marshal a sufficient group of people together around that many things but you'll remember one of the

00:13:31.320 things conservatives tried to stand against previously was the funding for planned parenthood and

00:13:36.440 so they'd get a batch of 15 20 35 that would say well if the government funding bill includes

00:13:42.400 money for planned parenthood then we're not going to vote for it well now you don't even see that

00:13:47.140 debate as a core feature of the negotiation people just kind of move past it and so people would pick

00:13:52.720 things like funding for sanctuary cities and say well you know are there five six seven of us who would

00:13:59.480 be willing to die in that ditch and what i can tell you is if you know whatever you think you start

00:14:04.400 with as a bastion against a bad bill to try to make it better uh you you see it whittled down

00:14:11.700 as people get told well you know congressman vish you weren't for this but we just found the resources

00:14:18.860 for a new park in staten island and well you know pearson uh gosh you know you've been working on this

00:14:25.200 really important intellectual property uh change uh to protect our businesses from china we'll throw that

00:14:31.560 in but then you got to vote for the big spending soft bribery yeah and and what what happens uh is

00:14:37.220 that people justify a suboptimal path for the country because there's an optimal path for one

00:14:44.260 particular interest of theirs and getting people to um join together to reject the top line spending

00:14:52.520 increases is very hard because of what vish just explained people have given up hope that we're going

00:14:58.800 to have real spending reform and they just say well to you know to heck with it if we're not going to

00:15:03.360 have any real spending reform don't cut my va benefits don't don't have my uh my ne'er-do-well

00:15:09.940 relative on ssi we'll let the country burn down but you know how does what am i going to get out of it

00:15:15.480 right and so people let me get some people who are deemed the effective smart brilliant operators of

00:15:21.400 washington are the ones who know how to name their price to get to yes and are able to extract the most for

00:15:27.720 themselves or their districts or the causes they care about to get to yes the problem is that you

00:15:33.740 know it ultimately leads you to this place we were just at where you're 50 trillion dollars in debt

00:15:39.000 and ultimately the country will have to face severe austerity and like you think we're in civil unrest

00:15:44.160 now right wait till we're 50 trillion dollars in debt and we're really having to cut cut things off

00:15:49.280 and we're really seeing supply chains short we thought it was supply chain issues because you had to

00:15:54.080 wait an extra three weeks for a sofa from ikea wait till your supply chain issues you know is like

00:15:59.160 the baby formula isn't coming and 50 trillion ain't that far away it's within 10 years yeah easily i mean

00:16:06.260 within within 10 years we're going to be 50 trillion dollars in debt market politicians i hate

00:16:12.040 politicians this is evil first time yeah i know first time we have no idealists we have opportunists

00:16:20.180 there's no idealists so they're all actually occupationalists they're all there concerned

00:16:25.140 with one thing and that is how do i get reelected the next go around well but that's that's kind of

00:16:31.580 how i wanted to frame this discussion about this bill because you can see how things really are

00:16:37.840 playing out based on how these politicians are talking about them even if it doesn't align with how

00:16:44.140 they vote you see if if there isn't a big groundswell of support for this bill even people who voted for it

00:16:49.980 will point out its flaws and how they uh worked to relieve flaws you know we've had lawmakers we

00:16:56.540 think highly of on our program this week who've said well you know there have been some senators who

00:17:01.200 think this might spend too much money if they want to chip away at more they would do so with our

00:17:06.780 support and our encouragement and our blessing that's unusual you know usually when people vote for

00:17:12.660 something they want you to swallow the whole pill right right yeah no what they're trying to do is

00:17:16.860 they're trying to pass the buck and say well i didn't cut that the senators did right like that's

00:17:21.820 that that's the thing it's all about like who can i point at to get the thing i want with none of the

00:17:26.420 skin in the game you know well the skin in the game and the leverage and the willingness to endure pain

00:17:32.080 is where i spent a lot of my time in congress because i i got to the point where i was willing to endure

00:17:38.720 the pain to try to drive people to address arguably more than anybody else yeah and and look at you

00:17:44.860 where it got us we're still going to that 50 trillion in debt because despite my efforts of

00:17:49.880 firing the guy in charge i couldn't get the institution on the rails of a funding system

00:17:55.460 that uh would allow for the doge cuts to be made permanent to get a vote for each and every one but

00:18:02.560 uh you know we could probably throw an image on the screen there were a number of republican senators

00:18:07.300 who voted against the doge cuts just to usa id so forget the doge cuts that existed at irs or at the

00:18:16.240 park service or anywhere else just to the foreign money we you know sprinkle about the world and you

00:18:24.000 had a neoconservative uniparty oppose elon's efforts uh i i am encouraged nonetheless because i do believe

00:18:34.640 jd vance is the heir apparent to this movement and you know what people really think when they're

00:18:40.040 saying stuff when maybe they don't ever know that that's going to be what people see and one of the

00:18:45.500 positives of that houthi group chat is that you saw in jd vance someone who's thoughtful who asked

00:18:51.540 precisely the questions we would want asked by a commander-in-chief in a circumstance such as this

00:18:57.320 and i i actually think he's going to be a combination of tactical operational capability

00:19:03.740 right alongside vision and inspiration and motivation for a lot of people before we go on

00:19:10.600 anything else what is your best estimate because this is one of the things that i would

00:19:16.340 i'd die for anybody who got this passed how can we repeal the 16th amendment

00:19:22.660 the 16th amendment as it relates to the direct income tax well the the income tax i don't think

00:19:32.480 you're going to because that was one of the things that we were you know trump was talking about and

00:19:36.760 talking about seriously and i think that would be one of the massive things that could help our

00:19:40.340 country because you would the government would have to stop spending money no they would just borrow

00:19:47.700 it yeah they would borrow it you would just get more monetary policy that's right they'll find a

00:19:52.540 way the the thing is you can't you can't stop the leviathan right they just that we as much as we

00:19:58.600 want for it to happen as much as every politician you've grown up listening to promises that they

00:20:04.880 could get it done it's just not happening whether you can't starve the beast you can't cut the beast

00:20:10.280 down to size we had the greatest engineer yeah in all of human history devoting his time and the time

00:20:16.580 one guy brilliant brilliant minds and we we are left with these feelings that you have and then it

00:20:24.160 meant you sort of wonder um if our efforts are deployed to slowing the growth not to stopping the

00:20:31.160 leviathan but just slowing the growth is that enough because at this level of of debt is there an amount of

00:20:39.760 growth that will save us is there a you know debt to gdp ratio that gets us out of the downfall there

00:20:45.760 has to there has to be some kind of technological breakthrough that like creates like a literal

00:20:51.120 energy or some kind of new plane yeah either we need to we need to create like some kind of nuclear

00:20:57.740 energy source that free energy bring yeah literally bring down energy to like nothing that might create

00:21:04.920 a new plane of like economic existence for us where maybe we grow to a point that we're you know a 50

00:21:12.540 trillion debt doesn't matter because we have a 200 trillion dollar economy because now we have free

00:21:18.160 energy for anyone everyone unless something like that happens i don't think it's where there's it's a

00:21:24.560 waste of time to try and uh you know stop the leviathan or slow the growth of the leviathan and just put

00:21:31.460 on a leash and use it for your own so i read an article by victor davis hansen today where he talked

00:21:36.820 about three strategies for getting rid of debt historically and none of them are ideal but

00:21:43.140 without massive cuts lay them on us the first one is the weimar republic strategy which seemed to be

00:21:50.340 what biden was doing you just print trillions of dollars to pay back your debt with deflated currency

00:21:55.900 or inflated currency well if that worked zimbabwe would be the most powerful country exactly

00:22:01.440 yep we say zimbabwe do we so that's strategy one the second one which has been tried many times

00:22:08.320 and is also terrible is confiscation of personal property and governments throughout history have

00:22:13.720 done that with disastrous results um the third one is we just wipe our hands and say we don't know

00:22:20.180 anybody anything we're erasing our debt and starting at zero which is the cleanest option but then who

00:22:27.240 would ever buy bonds again from the government why would you ever do that again so unless we can

00:22:33.040 just massively cut down i think that would start wars if we told people we just weren't going to pay

00:22:38.320 them it could but like we owe ourselves more money than we owe anybody else so unless the banks have

00:22:45.040 armies um you know china has 800 billion i thought they had more but apparently it's 800 billion most of

00:22:52.300 it's owned by ourselves japan has the most i think it's like one trillion or something so i don't know

00:22:58.820 but we've got to cut back drastically so you don't buy the theory that austerity is even achievable

00:23:04.940 like regular austerity you can just like cutting spending yeah just say look we can't be cradle to

00:23:11.700 grave socialists anymore we can't fund no we can't know education we don't need to legal aliens we don't

00:23:16.000 need to care for people come here my my well we need to get rid of a lot of the welfare maybe

00:23:20.380 all together my dad made a great point he said you know when he was growing up they didn't have

00:23:25.160 welfare and he said he can't remember anybody dying on the streets because they couldn't find food

00:23:30.120 there was nobody having that situation because the private sector stepped in now you've created such

00:23:36.040 a growth of public sector welfare that you've crowded out what was otherwise efficacious um you know

00:23:43.040 uh church inspired in many cases uh distribution of uh of resources to our fellow humans well and and

00:23:51.180 the percentage of people who were in that situation was much smaller than now by feeding it you've helped

00:23:56.360 it grow and it's just out of control at this point so i think any solution is going to be extremely

00:24:02.600 painful and that's going to make the person who does it very unpopular even if it's exactly what we need

00:24:07.740 well and and we may not be at that moment with the majorities we have in the house and senate but

00:24:13.640 visch isn't waiting for bigger majorities he wants to see this majority yeah actually taken out for a spin

00:24:20.160 and used and uh he doesn't you know you don't want the ronda santis lecture huh no absolutely not i don't

00:24:26.000 want the ronda santis lecture and it's it's not that he's wrong he's right but he's saying it for all the

00:24:33.160 wrong reasons and we all know that that's why i don't like the messenger on that but i do think that

00:24:37.920 that he's right i want to see the majority actually govern and it's just not happening we are going to

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00:25:47.440 healthy again so if it's not our debt that gets to us maybe it's world war three and i see president

00:25:54.460 trump trying to stop that with all of his effort and might between russia and ukraine and here's what

00:26:02.600 i sense and i'm dying to get your take on pearson i think trump's a little annoyed with putin i think

00:26:09.620 he expected putin to be more willing to enter into a ceasefire for broader negotiations and as trump

00:26:17.300 is trying to bring parties together trying to bring an end to this war trying to get away from

00:26:23.300 the naivete of the biden administration like that crimea was going to be repatriated trump showed

00:26:29.540 i think uh reasonableness by making some statements out front like look we're not going to be dragging

00:26:36.140 ukraine into nato we're not going to be repatriating crimea and he thought that that would create a

00:26:42.120 conducive environment for negotiations and then when he has seen some of these russian

00:26:47.120 attacks on ukrainians subsequent to his efforts i think he's really been peeved by that and i know

00:26:54.480 there's been hostilities on both sides but you study russia a lot you oftentimes uh prevent and present a

00:27:01.860 more nuanced take on maybe how russia sees some of these international dynamics so in this precise moment

00:27:08.600 where trump is trying to curate and cultivate peace where he dog walked zelinski through the oval office

00:27:16.740 where he made concessions to russia why won't vladimir putin get with the program and get into ceasefire

00:27:23.220 negotiations well that's a man that's all you want to know i think in pretty much every situation i can

00:27:33.800 think of that the aggressor is bears the blame and in this case i think without question nato is the

00:27:42.120 aggressor and they have pushed russia back into a corner repeatedly russia has a mindset

00:27:50.060 built over hundreds of years at this point that weakness invites disaster invites invasion invites

00:28:00.360 downfall uh in 1812 you had napoleon invade 1941 you had the nazis invade and you know uh 1991 the

00:28:10.320 soviet union fell and so russia has this perspective that they need to be strong and they need to present

00:28:16.720 a strong front to prevent being taken advantage of they geographically are in a position where they

00:28:23.960 don't have boundaries they don't have an ocean they don't have mountains to separate themselves

00:28:28.180 from other countries and so they have used other countries as that buffer zone uh estonia latvia

00:28:36.240 poland belarus ukraine and so in their mind at this point ukraine losing ukraine is unthinkable

00:28:44.100 it's existential they can't lose it um and what does losing ukraine mean it means having them join

00:28:51.680 nato so there is absolutely no buffer between them and their number one enemies right but if ukraine

00:28:56.580 is run by a sovereign government out of kiev is that losing ukraine yeah but who thinks that's

00:29:03.240 going to happen is zelinski the sovereign the independent sovereign i don't think this war is

00:29:07.960 going to end with vladimir putin in charge of who's in kiev i know it's not but i'm not entirely sure

00:29:14.180 it ends with the people of ukraine being in charge of that either exactly um russia their their

00:29:20.920 strategic psychology in this is that they are kind of like a third rome you know with the orthodox

00:29:27.620 church they have inherited that obligation to uphold western civilization and they view uh western

00:29:34.660 liberalism as absolutely antithetical to that as just a a cultural disease because they've got to stand

00:29:42.000 up against that and i'm not painting putin out to be a hero i don't think that's the case but i think

00:29:47.240 that mindset does play into this and it's very helpful to understand but i don't think that it

00:29:55.260 it absolves putin no from trump's expectation no that he get into some sort of so negotiation

00:30:01.820 speaking to that i think that trump doesn't necessarily maybe have all the information

00:30:08.240 about what's going on it's possible he's not aware of some of these things that are happening

00:30:14.060 there and for example zelinski uh just had a meeting with him and was condemning putin for

00:30:20.300 uh these drone strikes these unprecedented drone strikes that have killed 12 civilians over the

00:30:26.040 weekend well did you know that today may 28th ukraine launched massive drone strikes and killed 12

00:30:35.000 civilians themselves in moscow including three children so what they're accusing russia of doing do you doubt

00:30:41.820 that ukraine would get into a ceasefire negotiation tomorrow i don't i think they need it so bad and

00:30:49.320 they realize that they can't continue they're going to run out of men well they are going to run out of

00:30:53.880 men then they are kidnapping people off the streets right that's why i think they would do a ceasefire

00:30:58.080 negotiation tomorrow now they might go into that with unrealistic expectations that negotiation might

00:31:03.160 not culminate in any sort of agreement but i think they would be willing to cause a timeout now

00:31:08.320 to negotiate and i don't think russia is and i think that's what's annoying for trump i don't know

00:31:13.560 if they would though because right now the eu is signing over a hundred and seventy billion dollars

00:31:18.200 in new aid to ukraine like that's happening right now so zelinski is sitting there and he's just

00:31:23.180 accumulating these piles of cash i do believe they want to keep the i do yeah there's an incentive for

00:31:27.420 them to keep the war going but i but i don't think they have the operational like flexibility in this

00:31:33.300 thing to resist a ceasefire negotiation i think trump would drag zelinski by his sweatsuit

00:31:40.380 into that negotiation yeah i'd love to see that but you can't do that with putin with other nuclear

00:31:43.980 power you have to be fair one last point april 9th massive drone strike from ukraine attacking all

00:31:51.680 of russia that points all across russia may 3rd ukraine attacked the kremlin with drones they attacked

00:32:00.260 putin's palace where he's supposed to he wasn't there at the time they may not have known that

00:32:04.580 but they attacked where he's living may 20th putin was flying in a helicopter over kursk and there was

00:32:11.080 a drone swarm of 46 drones that attacked his helicopter in the air trying to blow him up

00:32:16.480 what are we expected to think and what's putin expected to think when these people keep trying

00:32:21.840 to literally assassinate him how is he supposed to come to the negotiating table in good faith

00:32:26.860 when today people are trying to kill him well yeah that's what happens in war right try to kill

00:32:32.380 the other side right but so there's don't you see validity in trump's desire to stop that well no

00:32:37.280 the accusations are going one direction where's the accusations against ukraine for doing this they're

00:32:40.980 saying you know trump's saying how can putin do this he's crazy no i'm telling you what about

00:32:44.960 the linsky doing the core difference is that and i'm no zelinski fan i'm a zelinski critic

00:32:51.300 but i do believe that zelinski would go into a ceasefire tomorrow and and i don't think putin

00:32:57.680 would and i think that putin is overplaying his hand here i think there's real risk that and i

00:33:03.860 know trump well that trump's going to look at this and say this guy actually doesn't want to end this

00:33:08.440 thing and once trump gets that perspective i think that you could see the united states um

00:33:15.200 take a very different tack than what you've seen now with an attempt at an accord vish what's your take

00:33:20.480 i think that that's exactly what putin wants to see it's like let's see what else you got i think

00:33:25.080 he's trying to make trump earn this i'm not seeing this from the perspective of putin as a diplomat

00:33:31.160 and more of like putin putin as a gangster he knows that trump wants an end to this war really

00:33:39.000 really really bad and he knows that he could probably that he's seen him dog walk zelinski right

00:33:45.000 but now he wants to see if put that if putin wants to see if trump's got it in him to go

00:33:50.180 right after right after putin and not in this way not in this way that's that's not not off your

00:33:55.960 microphone you think that you think that what putin is seeking here is some sort of like uh show me

00:34:02.540 what you got kinetic conflict with the united states i think he just wants to see if there's if there's

00:34:06.920 any other cards that we're willing to play no the the deal with putin is he always flicks us

00:34:12.900 just below the level that will draw like direct kinetic conflict in a lot of cases and i don't

00:34:20.020 think he desires that in any way i don't think it's kinetic but i think that but i do think he

00:34:24.100 wants to see if we have any other cards i think that is a dangerous game to play how does putin

00:34:29.220 expect his hand to get better his hand was was at a zenith when trump was saying he's these guys

00:34:35.000 aren't going to join nato which pearson i think correctly identifies as a core animating function of

00:34:40.920 this entire conflict so they're not going to join nato they're not going to be able to keep crimea

00:34:45.840 you know inherent in that is a philosophy that the dombas is going to remain independent or

00:34:52.040 russia leaning which by the way is what i think a lot of the people who live in that area want

00:34:55.820 they voted for it yeah and then you're going to end up with uh a an ability for kiev to operate a

00:35:04.040 ukraine that functions in some sort of buffer capacity that isn't fully western but that isn't

00:35:10.280 completely under putin's control and if that outcome isn't good enough for putin i don't know

00:35:16.700 what he thinks he's going to get out of this war well i think the question is is what what happened

00:35:20.960 what happens if if putin says i'm not i'm not entertaining any more of these talks what happens

00:35:26.900 if he walks away from the peace i think what is it what is the united states going to do about i think

00:35:30.760 what's the worst case scenario yeah what is the worst i think i think i could tell you what

00:35:34.600 the war plans would probably include i think they would include u.s cyber offensive extensively in

00:35:42.980 russia impacting quality of life for russians and i think that type of conflict in 2025 can escalate

00:35:49.520 very dangerously and very quickly horrifically and i don't want no winters there and i don't want to

00:35:54.020 see it come to that but do i believe this administration would green light very strong

00:36:01.020 uh cyber offensive operations inside of russia if putin continually refuses to end this war

00:36:07.280 i think they would and and i and i know the type of critical infrastructure that that could bring

00:36:12.200 down inside of russia and you could see the russians feel as though they were backed into a real corner

00:36:18.600 if that were to occur i mean the unless i completely read it wrong the next uh meeting is set for monday

00:36:25.480 they're going to sit down and talk yeah so i mean that they are willing to this is how high stakes

00:36:30.860 it is because all the messaging you're seeing out of the white house is trump's frustration

00:36:34.900 that there isn't a um a greater appetite to enter into a ceasefire to to proceed with why isn't he

00:36:42.220 holding why isn't he holding zelinski accountable for this and saying look you need to stop freaking

00:36:46.240 attacking the president's because helicopter would do the and then i don't even like you said that

00:36:51.060 well i know i understand but i think the reason he isn't doing that is because zelinski has told

00:36:57.040 him and told him in and uh at the vatican that he would go into a ceasefire tomorrow now would he

00:37:03.480 honor that ceasefire would the azov battalion go do some crazy thing who knows but trump appreciates

00:37:09.560 at least that zelinski is willing to have the negotiations in a construct where you aren't

00:37:15.520 exchanging drone attacks at one another do you have hope for the well we got we got nothing we want to

00:37:21.140 chat about but do you have hope for these negotiations beginning of next week yeah yeah i do i think

00:37:25.580 what do you want to see come out of them as a guy who studies this closely well i mean a ceasefire

00:37:29.740 is optimal but it's it's challenging because you have to get the ceasefire not out of this one i

00:37:35.620 don't think so okay okay uh i think both sides still have a little more posturing that they want

00:37:41.740 to do i don't think anyone wants to come out of this looking weak and russia has decades of abuse

00:37:48.200 from the west that they're trying to make up for and i'm not a russian apologist or a putin

00:37:52.720 apologist they're you know they've done a lot of terrible things but being realistic you can see

00:37:58.400 why they've kind of got a chip on their shoulder about how the west has treated them recently

00:38:02.580 somehow pearson sharp you got me to take ukraine side more in this debate that's yeah it's shocking

00:38:08.160 in eight years as a member after everything i presented i know um but i am i am uh similarly hopeful

00:38:15.880 but putin should not overplay his hand vish uh you wanted to talk about something going on in

00:38:22.040 ai world right now yeah so bring us into the future yeah so so open ai has been training this uh

00:38:29.360 this model recently it's called claude for it's one part of their chat gbt suite that they uh wanted to

00:38:35.640 basically release and they were training it with feeding it all sorts of data some fake data

00:38:41.820 as well um namely like some emails and all this stuff so they they fed they they're training this

00:38:47.940 this claude for model and then they tell it that they're going to shut it down or they're going to

00:38:53.140 upgrade it right and upgrading software essentially means you know you're you're getting rid of the old

00:38:58.480 for somebody new um or shutting it down which just means you know you're going to sleep or it's over

00:39:03.420 for you and the ai model responded back by saying if you shut me down i'm going to if it basically found

00:39:13.800 these emails that were fed through its system that implied that the c the ceo or the trainer was

00:39:21.340 having an affair with somebody in the in the company and so the ai model started blackmailing

00:39:28.460 the the the uh the the uh owner of the system the user to uh yeah to to basically say i'll publicize

00:39:37.260 this stuff if you try to shut me down i think that this is an incredible story because it shows

00:39:42.960 two things one namely that a the ai models or ai itself how understand self-preservation uh at at a

00:39:53.820 very very uh complex level but the other thing is is that in just this rudimentary version of ai

00:40:00.820 the jobs that they're going to take that ai is going to be taking away is all the crime on the

00:40:06.060 street they're going to be getting into the blackmail they're going to be getting into all sorts of

00:40:11.060 crime those are the first jobs that are that are an ai mafia those are the first jobs that are

00:40:16.380 apparently going to be replaced by ai is all the jobs in uh in crime i mean that can i mean can you

00:40:23.180 if if black if that rudimentary model is able to i don't think rudimentary is the right word at this

00:40:30.240 point i mean it has to be because it's not i'm pretty sure it was just an llm it's not even like

00:40:34.560 an agentic ai so they're talking about agentic ai that being the next step what's the worst thing

00:40:39.980 that your ai could blackmail you with that's that's what i thought when i heard you pitch me

00:40:45.260 this story i was like dang what does my ai model have on me it's going to be like we we want the

00:40:50.980 world to know matt gates has been looking for a 30 inch waist expandable pants sweat pant like what's

00:40:58.400 uh are you yeah anybody out there sweating what their ai model might i i i am definitely sweating

00:41:05.260 whatever the ai model is going to find on me uh and i can't disclose why are you ready for the

00:41:12.260 black mailing robots pearson are you think society's ready for this well of course not i mean and and

00:41:17.500 musk has been talking about this for a long time but i i read a similar story where they tried to shut

00:41:21.260 it down and it lied to them about about where it was and about how they could do it like it was actively

00:41:26.760 lying to them to prevent them from shutting it down i've heard uh i've read a story where where they

00:41:31.700 had two ai models that they were training and that they uh and then the ai models were informed that

00:41:37.720 they would be shutting down so the ai models created their own language to communicate with each other

00:41:44.320 so that they could coordinate on how not to be and that language the researchers couldn't understand

00:41:50.720 that language yes that's right it was just when they pulled the plug there was a video uh that tucker

00:41:55.820 carlson posted recently where he was talking with sean williams i think and he was saying that someone

00:42:03.020 he's talked to on the inside he was very vague but he said someone who would know um has said that the

00:42:09.380 reason they're trying to develop neural link is to give humans an edge against ai because he was saying

00:42:16.460 that there's nothing that we can compete with computers on you know intellectually they could do

00:42:22.140 everything faster and better than us so having a chip in our heads is the only way to combat that

00:42:26.500 and he said that he has it on good authority that ai is already out of control and we're past the

00:42:35.960 breakout we're past the breakout and sean williams said well you know why can't we pull the plug you

00:42:41.580 know humans still control power plants we can shut them down and tucker responded and said well because

00:42:48.780 at this point the researchers can't be sure that the ai is actually truthful about where its power

00:42:54.760 is coming from like we don't know what plug to pull so it's it's out at this point and and so are you

00:43:02.800 ready for your robot overlords to take over oh yeah yeah i've got my ranch planned we're we're bugging

00:43:09.300 you know how to pull the plug yeah yeah if you're if you're not digital there's nothing so this is all

00:43:14.700 falling this is worried about ai replacing the criminals ai is actually just replacing the users

00:43:20.860 of the internet increasingly so yeah the way a lot more business is being done on the internet is

00:43:27.180 through ai agents and so people creating websites and content are creating that content less and less

00:43:33.900 for you as a user to stay on the article or to stay on the site and they're making it more and more

00:43:41.540 for the ai robot that is doing the scan or the learning or the aggregating to find that piece

00:43:48.180 of content attractive and worthy of republication and so that you know we we think about websites

00:43:54.580 and the aesthetic and the cleanliness and the user-friendly nature of it very differently i think

00:44:01.860 today than we will in the near future when our robots are building communication devices and screening

00:44:09.060 devices for other robots i think that that that future you know where we have ai you know they're

00:44:17.940 talking about ai is gonna i said ai is going to replace criminals but you know it's they're talking

00:44:22.900 about ai is going to replace lawyers and possibly artists doctors all sorts of all sorts of stuff and to

00:44:30.900 to pearson's point you know if if there is this point where we are going to be dealing with ai that

00:44:39.060 is you know uh it's it's basically going to possibly going to take over

00:44:48.020 go fight like with humans with and that's why we need the neural link i think that's a total folly

00:44:53.460 i think ais could hack the neural link and we need to i believe in like total decentralization do not

00:44:59.140 put the chip in my brain and in fact this idea that ais can process stuff faster than people and and

00:45:05.540 learn faster and do things better this takes away our like understanding humanity like you don't

00:45:11.300 want to fight the ai on where on the field that it's going to excel at you fight them on the field that

00:45:17.700 humans are going to excel at we need to do better at humanity in order to fight you know

00:45:23.780 did you ever see escape from la with kurt russell oh yeah yeah yeah we need we need one of those

00:45:29.620 moments where at the end of the movie there's these these satellites that are in orbit and they

00:45:33.540 have the power to shut down all things that are electric on the planet and at the end of the movie

00:45:38.100 he pushes the button that activates the satellites shuts down everything on earth so we need one of

00:45:43.460 those oh well and you know the other thing is the power question yeah and the power question like oh can

00:45:49.860 you pull the plug on an ai it goes out that might not even matter like the ai might replicate itself

00:45:55.140 into another computer that's within its network or nexus and then once it gets shut down in its

00:46:00.500 original spot it just it it sparks up in the new in the new host system there's totally a movie with

00:46:06.580 megan fox with this is the core plot but i'm gonna have to pull the plug on this episode at that moment

00:46:12.420 but i think it's been a fascinating discussion from the future to our global affairs with russia to

00:46:17.860 our expectations of our own leaders here at home vish burrah the producer of the mac age show alongside

00:46:24.100 the great team of chris chell and zach peterson and the host of the sharp report if you're watching

00:46:28.420 one american news and you just leave our channel on long enough you will see the sharp report because

00:46:33.620 it uh it it invades the screen with force and vigor and just make sure your pacemaker is

00:46:40.020 appropriately set and you've taken your blood pressure medication but always a pleasure of

00:46:44.020 pearson having you on anchorman and make sure to catch the matt gates show we're on nine o'clock eastern

00:46:49.380 six o'clock pacific and make sure you get the oan live app if you haven't already that's oann.com

00:46:55.700 and big things are happening here at one american news i can't tell you how grateful i am to have

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00:48:06.180 i'm so excited when we get our merriweather farm shipments and you get a beautiful piece of

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00:48:37.540 matt g for 15 off your first order

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - May 29, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ A House Built on Sand

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