The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz

00:00:00.000 now it's time for the anchorman podcast with matt gates and dan ball

00:00:11.360 welcome back to the anchorman show i'm matt gates alongside my good friend and occasional

00:00:24.940 colleague and co-worker vish burrow vish thanks as always for being here to discuss

00:00:28.860 what's been going on this week and we'll be joined a little bit later by another member of our team

00:00:33.720 chris cello but before we get to that we have seen the stock market undulate like it was the 80s again

00:00:41.320 okay no longer is the slow ride up with the s&p 500 the ride you are on we have seen uh big drops big

00:00:50.100 rises and i kind of think it may uh be a new trend line for us that in an era of reset and reorganization

00:01:02.180 there are going to be some peaks and valleys how do you think politically we should deal with

00:01:08.840 an undulating stock market as maybe a new feature of american life well i think that we you know we

00:01:15.400 as americans we kind of live and die by those numbers every day because that's what gets pumped

00:01:21.540 in our media every day that's the message that we get every day and you know the thing we also have

00:01:27.240 to remind ourselves is that you know fear sells for a lot of these programs right and so when the stock

00:01:33.380 market takes a dip red they use red everywhere to kind of show that we're going down right something's

00:01:39.080 wrong but you know what the story that i never heard so you know since 1995 the stock market you

00:01:47.440 know has been up six or seven hundred percent to date right and that is a story we never get that

00:01:54.960 we don't talk we don't celebrate you know when the stock market is up that hundred percent you didn't

00:01:59.880 you didn't hear any of those stories 200 300 there were no benchmark stories about well in the last 20

00:02:06.680 years the stock market's gone up 400 and so we don't appreciate enough about where we are from

00:02:13.360 where we're where we're coming from but the moment there's a valley in the in on those lines and in

00:02:18.960 those numbers we start freaking out and i think we just need to we just need to chill right that's

00:02:23.860 cool yeah be cool okay keep calm carry on yeah president trump said you know we're not rolling with

00:02:30.240 the panicans right like stop panicking right and so we need to be chill we need to understand that

00:02:36.540 we have a great leader who's who who also in his mind lives and dies by the stock market so when

00:02:42.300 that thing's going down president trump definitely has it in his mind but he's also he also knows where

00:02:48.360 he's taking this country and so we need to stop panicking about you know every dip in every valley

00:02:54.740 that shows up in the stock market if we were to look at that five that graph five ten twenty years

00:03:00.120 we are in a a peak that we've never seen before as a country in its history

00:03:04.880 i think you'll learn a little from observing the core principles of the trump organization

00:03:12.320 it's not a quick flip enterprise it's a long hold enterprise right they find great assets they improve

00:03:20.960 them they hold them long term and it's kind of a be cool approach to real estate investment

00:03:26.980 and now you see trump really trying to build an american economy that is long hold again and i think

00:03:35.700 we've suffered from the quarterly earnings obsession that has captivated the american economy i think it

00:03:44.820 gave us crises like enron i think that sometimes it doesn't lead to the type of enduring relationships

00:03:53.620 with communities that you used to see in corporate america building the company town taking care of

00:04:00.100 every band at the local high school when they want to go to the rose bowl now it's about how to get that

00:04:06.940 quick flip quarterly earning and i think with this reset and reorientation of the global economy through

00:04:13.580 these tariffs you're going to get there and i would caution some of our trump supporting friends

00:04:20.760 to be so enamored with the good moments in the market that we replace that as the foe or we make

00:04:29.860 that the focus rather than what we're really trying to do what's the prime directive what are we trying

00:04:34.940 to do we're trying to make it where in america you can have an earner who can support a family yes

00:04:41.580 full stop right and i don't know that juice in the quarterly earnings like get you there alone i think

00:04:49.040 you have to get back to um looking at america the way trump looks at some of his own assets well you

00:04:57.120 know when you talk about the long-term hold kind of mentality that trump the trump organization operates

00:05:04.480 on how trump is kind of seeing this thing this is actually precisely what we've been lacking for the

00:05:11.320 last 40 50 years you know china the way china thinks china thinks in 100 year clips okay they

00:05:20.880 think about their plans we think in eight second clip well well i mean yeah we think in eight set

00:05:25.800 well you know to be fair we think in four-year clips eight-year clips because that's two years to

00:05:31.280 the midterm two years and then you know another thing steve bannon always talks about this and i think

00:05:36.400 he's so on point he talks about you know mb the mba the masters of business administration degree

00:05:42.300 wasn't really introduced until the late 60s or 70s and the idea that that was introduced when the mba was

00:05:50.840 introduced is this i this radical idea of maximizing shareholder value and this is where you get this

00:05:57.840 idea of my next quarterly earning has to be more than the last one right because i have to deliver value

00:06:04.000 for my shareholders but now i feel like every you know we have all these mba graduates they're all

00:06:11.440 spread out through corporate america and now these people are held hostage to that very same idea right

00:06:18.420 of maximizing shareholder value in quarters right or year over year as opposed to thinking well what is

00:06:25.960 the long-term goal of all this money that we're making right of all this profit that we're getting we're

00:06:31.940 not against profit and we're not against uh wanting to maximize profit but when you have a structure in

00:06:38.720 place administered by the stock market and wall street that causes you to look in those quarterly

00:06:45.940 windows i actually think you can drain the economy out of long-term potential and durability and you make

00:06:54.420 yourself more vulnerable like in the time of the pandemic when it someone could make a little bit extra

00:07:01.200 dividend for a dividend for a shareholder by offshoring some ip to ireland and some production to india next thing

00:07:07.520 you know you've got those countries acting in their best interests and we are left holding the bag and you know i

00:07:15.200 don't know if these tariffs can break uh that system and that perspective but i think that trump's uh i think very uh it's it's

00:07:25.200 it's it's almost a uh it's almost a protectorate you know of the american economy and we'll see how how

00:07:34.080 it plays out i want to talk about the messaging too though on this fish because we've heard in some of our

00:07:40.000 activist circles folks um not so thrilled about the way the tariff policies are being explained to that

00:07:49.600 average uh unmotivated republican blue collar worker in staten island that you've got to go get to the

00:07:57.520 polls in the midterms to hold on to the republican majority how should people be talking about these

00:08:02.960 tariffs well yeah i think that because we get there i think the the complexities of the issue are not

00:08:11.760 really breaking through to that low propensity working class voter right now what is breaking through

00:08:18.480 right now chaos that's all they're seeing they're they're seeing it's chaos prices are going up my

00:08:24.800 401k is going down because so many of our 401ks our pensions are again tied into the markets right

00:08:31.840 because that's where these portfolios are locked up uh and that the prosperity of the market will mean

00:08:37.520 prosperity for your pension prosperity for your retirement and so all they're seeing now is their

00:08:43.040 numbers going down on their portfolios the valleys uh in the market and so they're seeing

00:08:48.320 that they're seeing the chaos they're seeing that prices are going up president trump and a lot of

00:08:52.720 our surrogates are saying hey yeah prices are going to go up you know short-term pain for long-term gain

00:08:58.240 but you know what is that long-term what are we talking about when we say long-term gain and i think

00:09:03.520 what's getting what we're missing is that we don't emphasize enough on the future because and what and

00:09:10.800 what do i mean by when when i say future it's this is for our children they've got to dream a little you

00:09:16.080 want you want more grandiose rhetoric you want more lofty oratory that that tells you what america

00:09:22.480 looks like at the end of this reset well there's not only that but who's it for it right the the again

00:09:27.760 emphasizing it's this is for our children this is for our grandchildren this is so that we can that

00:09:34.640 hey it's very likely that we do see some kind of major conflict head to head with china do you want

00:09:42.000 your kids your your grandkids to be in a position where we're no we can't produce our own steel and

00:09:49.200 they have to be in a head-to-head battle with china right i think that that is a a you know to to sell

00:09:56.800 that we want we are we are fighting for position here in the future right in the future where it's

00:10:02.400 gonna happen right the whole idea of thucydides trap and this rising power versus the declining power

00:10:08.560 right and that and that did that we need to be able to make sure that we can turn around to our

00:10:13.840 future generations and say we left you in the best position possible versus that rising power

00:10:20.160 that's so that's a message of sacrifice well that's a message of sacrifice now but this is the thing

00:10:26.080 it's it's for the people that's again going back to the idea of prosperity be you know six seven

00:10:33.040 eight hundred percent increases on the market for the last 30 years hey you guys it's it's been

00:10:38.800 those that fifty percent of the mark the of the population that has some sort of tie-ins to the

00:10:44.400 market that has uh lived in that prosperity right and you guys have enjoyed that all we're asking for is

00:10:51.440 is a smaller dip not just not just for you know your the the country's prosperity but for your kids

00:10:58.080 prosperity and for your grandkids prosperity right and so that we can continue that described is a call

00:11:03.760 to national sacrifice i mean hey i think that i don't but it's not it's not it's not a national

00:11:09.440 sacrifice it it there is sacrifice involved and all good things come with sacrifice first of all but

00:11:16.480 i think the message needs to be that donald trump is reshaping the the social contract for americans

00:11:24.480 for at least a few generations okay so give me a vision of what you think that social contract is

00:11:31.200 prior to this terrorist tariff regime and then and how you think it changes so prior to the tariff regime

00:11:37.920 democrats republicans alike have basically tied the idea of prosperity to the stock market to the gdp

00:11:47.680 and all of these things were the united markets of america right the right exactly treating

00:11:52.880 the country as an economic zone that we're all either consumers or producers we are interchangeable

00:11:58.480 parts the things that devalue culture and language and identity and just say oh well it's fine if a

00:12:03.920 bunch of illegal immigrants come here to do jobs that you don't want to do because all that really

00:12:08.080 matters is keeping up the technocratic productions right and a bunch of zeros and ones that can be

00:12:12.880 moved around and replaced to achieve maximum efficiency by the way i've if there was ever a more

00:12:19.280 marxist concept you know to come across our way than that i would like to know because treating

00:12:27.280 individual individual humans as units for that can be moved around and placed in certain places to

00:12:34.240 achieve maximum efficiency for the superstructure the economy that is a marxist concept right that

00:12:41.680 nothing matters except for the efficiency of the market that produces value okay so the new i get that and

00:12:48.320 i actually get how the you know pre the great liberation day that was the structure we were

00:12:54.400 living in and it's what had a lot of people frustrated feeling like their future wasn't going to be any

00:13:00.720 better and it almost goes back to the line trump gave at the 2016 convention what have you got to lose

00:13:06.080 right and people felt that way they voted for him and now the new social construct can be what the new

00:13:12.960 social contract now is that we are we are resetting the rules of global trade because and using america's

00:13:25.120 position as a hegemon to establish it because we do not want a future where china is going to dictate

00:13:32.880 the rules of that trade and if that that if those rules are going to be detrimental to americans well where

00:13:41.280 is that going to push us in the future again we might have to go and reset those those terms

00:13:48.000 you know a little more forcefully and if again if we can't produce our own our own medicine if we

00:13:53.280 can't produce but that doesn't get to the social contract vish so what am i getting out of my

00:13:58.080 participation in this american experience and what am i giving to it so in exchange for you know not

00:14:06.640 having uh the the absolute dirt cheapest goods in the world coming from china and vietnam and all

00:14:13.920 these places in exchange for that you will have guaranteed a a job a job that keeps up with the

00:14:21.760 mark way a job where the wages keep up with the market and productivity that you're actually outputting

00:14:29.280 right and you're able to rely on your communities closer to you at home for all of the things that

00:14:37.440 you need in your life as opposed to hoping that someone in some foreign country has your best interest

00:14:44.080 in mind right we want to bring not just commodities closer to home but concern closer to home right the

00:14:53.120 i that that that the people that are looking out for you are right here around you and you can go and

00:14:59.280 negotiate with them to keep it to keep your life to a higher quality of life yeah to a higher to the

00:15:05.920 higher quality and that's what that's what i think uh i would distill it to the pre-liberation

00:15:13.600 day social contract was that if you produced that the system would create the most efficiency out of that

00:15:22.560 production that's the promise we've not probably not lived up to that to the extent but that was

00:15:27.040 the core promise produce in an efficient capitalist system more efficient than a socialist or marxist

00:15:33.040 system will will generate value out of that production the problem is that that value wasn't always

00:15:40.960 realized by the working women and men of this country the values is is some hedge fund operator who

00:15:47.600 shorts agricultural foodstuffs screws the farmers and gets paid the value is in somebody who offshores

00:15:54.880 your plant to chihuahua mexico and sure yes yes high intelligence and aptitude created efficiency

00:16:02.800 but at the cost of quality of life yeah and i think what trump is saying is that actually the quality of

00:16:08.240 life of americans is what is core to this experience and you can't have an affordability index that is

00:16:15.920 out of whack on things like housing and food and you look at features of the trump agenda on dreg all

00:16:22.240 the incredible stuff that epa administrator lee zeldin good friend of yours and mine uh is doing uh

00:16:28.160 to unlock the potential of our businesses but at the end of the day the businesses don't exist as an end

00:16:34.640 unto themselves for benefit it has to in order the benefit of the country yeah and i actually think it's working

00:16:41.840 i i had a friend of mine in washington big trump supporter you know call me and say well matt should

00:16:47.520 i should i be blackpilled you know on one of the days of the of the doldrums of the market and i am

00:16:53.680 just so for this because i think that throughout american history we've had to make decisions about

00:16:59.360 our market and when we put that quality of life coefficient first we do better uh we covered on the show

00:17:06.720 under president mckinley under president coolidge i think you've got mckinley coolidge and trump as

00:17:12.160 the mount rushmore of tariffs and and it may work out that way now the the thing we were talking about

00:17:17.920 is whether or not it's being messaged correct yeah and and i think we've got some good messengers on

00:17:23.760 the point howard lutnik uh has been making the rounds and doing an incredible job his argument is that we

00:17:31.200 have to be pitching that american robotics and american technology and american adoption of new

00:17:39.280 enterprise will always be cheaper than cheap foreign labor is that the argument we should be making i

00:17:46.480 think it's certainly part of that the argument that should be making this is actually also one of the

00:17:51.920 kind of tenants that that i've also kind of grappled with in trying to understand you know how we

00:17:57.520 justify automation and robotics also in the face of mass immigration if you're telling me that there

00:18:05.040 are all these you know ai is coming robotics is coming everything's going to be automated and we're

00:18:10.480 going to be able to do things all you know cheaper without humans who take vacations and and you know

00:18:17.040 health insurance is needed for them and all this stuff it's like okay so why do we need immigration

00:18:21.920 again right why do we need automation is the answer to illegal immigration right i mean when when

00:18:26.960 when a robot can effectively pick strawberries tomatoes and and oranges uh you're going to see far less

00:18:34.400 of a constituency for bringing people across our border illegally well that's right and so that but

00:18:39.920 what does it do we've also seen the impact on the american worker the law the big longshoreman long i

00:18:45.520 was just going to say yeah right so the longshoreman thing was all about well you guys are going to

00:18:50.000 automate all our jobs away we can't have that you know just willy-nilly without looking out for the

00:18:56.480 longshoreman right here in america who it's gonna who's gonna well yeah we call it the longshoreman

00:19:01.600 thing but let's zoom out a little bit this was the big strike that was diffused in a lot of ways

00:19:07.440 where the folks who are responsible for loading the cargo off of ships and then onto trucks to be

00:19:13.840 distributed throughout the country were demanding a new contract and in those contract negotiations

00:19:19.840 they wanted prohibitions against automation like usually in these contracts the core thing is the

00:19:25.840 pay raise the benefits the insurance the pension all that stuff but here it seemed that the sticking

00:19:31.600 point was similar to what you saw in the writer strikes in california where people are demanding

00:19:38.400 human workers are demanding that there be contractual provisions that stop machines from taking their jobs

00:19:44.880 people might not want to hear this i think that's a losing fight i think when you are fighting against

00:19:50.480 technology to that degree um it it doesn't in order your benefit the people who are going to thrive

00:19:57.680 are the ones who become the prompt engineers who learn how to um interface and augment robotics and that

00:20:06.160 is a space that people ought to be in if they don't want to be replaced and i don't think any union

00:20:10.640 contracts going to save you well you know that actually reminds me of uh a there was a brilliant

00:20:16.160 um interview conversation between tucker carlson and ben shapiro and tucker carlson said hey if

00:20:24.000 self-driving trucks were were invented over you know overnight and um you know what what what uh

00:20:31.200 i think actually it was ben shapiro who says if self-driving trucks were invented overnight and 50 of

00:20:36.320 you know the uh non-college educated men are truck drivers in this country uh you know how would

00:20:43.360 you respond to that issue tucker said without blinking an eye tucker says i would ban them overnight i

00:20:49.280 would i would ban self-driving trucks and he said and the the reason he says is because the social cost of

00:20:57.200 putting that many men out of work that quickly would be uh insurmountable and so they that there

00:21:07.520 you need to i think there needs to be an approach where we do this mindfully right that we have an

00:21:12.960 issue and especially with the tariffs the stock markets when we talk about it we think of we it's

00:21:17.600 all about profit without kind of thinking about a little bit of the process behind it right or the

00:21:23.280 purpose behind it right the purpose is always efficiency and profit right but that's the same

00:21:28.400 it's an all i this is what i'm saying profit profit and purpose need to be tied together not

00:21:34.320 the purpose just being profit this conversation could be happening at the roots convention profit

00:21:39.600 and purpose have to be tied together well yeah i mean hey steve bannon even talks about a version of

00:21:44.720 moral moral capitalism as well right the idea that there has to be some kind of thought that's put into

00:21:51.200 why the why of why you make all of why you why are you pursuing profit why are you pursuing automation

00:21:57.760 if it's just for efficiency it's very easy for me to say no right because i'm not thinking i'm in that

00:22:06.640 moment that conversation has nothing to do with humans or the social cost right until that the social

00:22:13.440 cost and the human cost is added to the calculation of the profit i think your profit number is out of

00:22:20.000 whack it's actually not a real number right until until you factor in the human and social cost no

00:22:27.280 question that the the uh tariff infrastructure is built on the foundation of moral capitalism right

00:22:37.680 because it it's central to how the uh the average american is interfacing with the economy getting a job

00:22:44.720 and then having a career i mean we we we now are in a world where just like the gig economy has taken

00:22:50.960 over the concept of the corporate woman and the corporate man and and building a career who do you think out

00:22:57.040 there has been the worst messenger on tariffs oh right now i think you know what there's a it's it's

00:23:04.320 it's all our online surrogates right who are who are kind of just like burn it all down right we but

00:23:13.040 oh the whole like trump is crashing the market on purpose yeah i hate that argument that is so

00:23:18.800 nonsense yes that i think that that though the people who are pushing that line i think it's a problem

00:23:24.560 because at the end at the end of the day a lot of like boomers with you know portfolios in the stock

00:23:30.720 market are our voters right and so you don't you when you turn around and say we're burning it all

00:23:35.680 down right it's not about the money it's about sending a message right that's not going to work

00:23:40.720 with them you know it's also not trump's mentality right donald trump is a builder right he accumulates

00:23:46.800 assets he drives wealth he makes other people richer he wants you to have more do more be more

00:23:52.960 dress better be a better uh uh custodian of your own family's future that is central to how donald trump

00:24:00.480 thinks about everything and so the notion that donald trump is out there trying to crash or burn

00:24:05.920 or destroy is antithetical to his to his perspective and to his entire life's work yeah i think so too

00:24:13.360 and i and so by the way that's when the left got in the in the worst trouble when they decided they

00:24:18.000 wanted to be the party of destruction and riots and you know burn down the the poor immigrants bodega

00:24:26.720 because you're mad about white supremacy or whatever right i think that that when you when

00:24:32.000 you bite that lure you better be ready for it to rip hard right and so i think that there's there and and

00:24:38.240 on the other side of that i do understand the frustration right uh one of the better messengers

00:24:42.800 is also i think scott besant totally let's get into that right and so you know he has i think the most

00:24:48.000 the most salient you know when he breaks down who actually has owns the stock market

00:24:52.640 how many stocks do you own vish zero zero zero i have zero no retirement nothing so when he when

00:24:59.040 scott besant says look there's 50 of the country who doesn't have a 401k who isn't invested in the

00:25:05.440 market who rents who has debt who has credit cards that's me who's he describing that's me he's totally

00:25:12.240 talking about me did he get you with that oh 100 uh when i when he said that i'm like this guy

00:25:17.280 understands me right this guy and understands kind of what we're talking about but also you know those

00:25:23.280 when you talk about the rise in young people voting for donald trump this is part of it right

00:25:29.840 we don't you remember the but back in 2020 uh you know w world economic forum you're going to own

00:25:36.480 nothing and you're going to be happy it's like well look i do own nothing but i'm definitely not happy

00:25:41.920 about it and i don't i'm not happy about the prospect of me never owning anything right and so

00:25:47.520 i would like to own something i'd like to buy in to this market to the system to this country

00:25:53.200 again when the founders created this country you know one of the stipulations was to in order to be

00:25:58.240 able to vote was that you had to own property because you want someone who's a stakeholder in

00:26:02.720 the system to be custodians of that system when people who don't have a stake in the system are then

00:26:09.440 have some kind of responsibility to it to in you know when in terms of voting they're going to be

00:26:15.200 like well i don't own i don't own anything in the stock market what do i care if it goes up or down

00:26:20.320 right and so what you don't want is someone who says i'm i don't own anything about in that market

00:26:25.440 so i don't care that's bad what you want is someone who says i don't own anything in the market but i

00:26:31.920 would like to and i would like for someone to be a custodian of this nation who would help me get

00:26:38.160 there and i think that that is a lot of young people today who want to get there but if you

00:26:44.240 can't look at them and say well you know the market is crashing right now you made a bad decision i was

00:26:50.000 like well i don't own anything in it in the first place so for me it kind of doesn't matter at the

00:26:55.760 moment right but all right so if that's if that beset message works for you it sounds like that works

00:27:01.440 for you maybe more than the lutnik message even though to me lutnik's message about the future of the

00:27:07.120 cost of creation is that visionary call about the future that that you say we need so if if they're

00:27:15.440 doing it right if the destruction cheerleaders are doing it wrong how do we know in the coming weeks

00:27:23.200 like whether or not this is going well we're not going to look at the you know the dow or the s p 500

00:27:29.440 as the sole metric we've dispensed with that i would posit that it's the bilateral deals it's not

00:27:37.440 maybe it's not the most the sexiest stuff or the most headline grabbing stuff but when trump

00:27:43.440 inks a new deal with south korea sri lanka vietnam some of these mid-market countries uh you know you're

00:27:51.840 gonna have uh the durable ownership in that which is ours along with the enhanced purchasing power

00:28:00.320 we've been discussing well i actually think donald trump kind of already did it today right and the

00:28:05.840 way that he did it was by showing that the tariffs are not about just slapping on tariffs on everybody

00:28:13.840 just because everyone's been ripping us off and so we're gonna get back at you again that's a destructive

00:28:18.000 mentality right we're gonna get back at you we're gonna slap tariffs on everybody who's done us wrong

00:28:23.120 that's not what he did today he came out and said i'm pausing 90 days on everybody who came to the

00:28:27.120 table because it's not about you guys and china who is playing you know tit for tat i'm going up i'm

00:28:35.760 posting up on them okay so there's two theories of how that played out one theory of the case is this was

00:28:41.280 the plan all along the plan all along was to throw out blanket tariffs almost like uh when you go bird

00:28:47.760 hunting you know you you kick in the brush you kick up the birds right so he's he's going through the

00:28:52.720 field he's kicking the birds up and uh as all of that happens you know you get the batch that that

00:28:59.440 are heading back to the flock no that's all these countries now wanting to renegotiate and then you

00:29:04.240 have the you know the one that goes away that you can that you can knock out of the sky and in china's

00:29:09.600 case the retaliatory posture they've taken seems to put them in a worse position driving asian countries

00:29:17.120 into the into the economic bosom of the united states so is that is that how we know it's going

00:29:22.160 well yes that is a hundred percent how we know it's going well for and the other thing is it's

00:29:28.880 always been about china right yes all these other countries right there they have terrible tariffs on

00:29:34.560 our subject but it's always been about china because they are about india too of a hundred percent

00:29:39.600 it's about india i can't believe that that we even have this kind of trade i'm i'm like thinking

00:29:44.720 i'm like what what is it that india sells that we want so pharmaceuticals well yeah you know what

00:29:49.520 that's that is a huge i can't believe we get we seeded that ground to them it's at maddening

00:29:55.600 actually we did we did and it's maddening and they got into the production of the generics that's right

00:30:00.560 the mass production of the generics so that you know but it's really been about china and and i and

00:30:06.240 i think that him posting up on china the way he did by saying listen all these people came to the

00:30:11.920 table this was kind of the plan all along let's assume right i'm i'm pausing the tariffs on them

00:30:17.040 until we renegotiate some bilaterals with them post up on china i i think there are people on the left

00:30:22.960 who even love that they used to well no i think they still do they just can't admit it because it's

00:30:28.000 trump who's getting it done right and so i think that they love that we are posting up on china but that

00:30:35.360 you know they want to see that that's what it's about and it's it's not about you know just punishing

00:30:40.800 everybody just because so every deal every bilateral deal that gets closed i mean trump

00:30:46.720 needs to go checking off progress yeah so bilateral deals don't start getting done bad sign yes if you

00:30:53.280 start to see and it's not going to be in the a block it's going to be stuff that's on the third or fourth

00:30:58.320 page of the financial times right but when you when you see that you know we are making progress we're

00:31:03.600 making progress when we're fighting for economic freedom we're making progress when we're fighting for

00:31:08.240 the freedom of somebody to participate in that great ownership society in the united states of

00:31:12.400 america and we are indeed making progress when we fight for medical freedom rfk junior has called

00:31:18.960 it out big pharma and the government work together to suppress treatments like ivermectin hydroxychloroquine

00:31:24.960 and other important drugs why because if they admitted those treatments worked they couldn't rush

00:31:30.000 through the covet vaccine and let's be honest big pharma wasn't about to let effective alternatives cut

00:31:34.800 into their billion dollar payday they didn't just push the vax they made sure americans had no other

00:31:40.320 options big pharma wanted to be in charge of your health not you they wanted total control and they

00:31:45.360 used the government to get it that's why i trust all family pharmacy they provide ivermectin hydroxychloroquine

00:31:51.200 antibiotics vitamins and more the very medications that others tried to keep out of your hands can be

00:31:57.520 available without red tape and without corporate pressure just real options and it's not just emergency

00:32:02.560 meds you can even get your everyday maintenance medications as well go to allfamilypharmacy.com

00:32:08.160 forward slash matt use code matt 10 for 10 off don't wait be prepared take control of your health

00:32:15.520 so we've been talking about how on the right we've been dealing with the dynamic of a reset in

00:32:20.480 the global economy the messaging points the organizing points but it was also interesting to

00:32:25.520 us how the left was reacting and we sent our very own ace producer chris chella out in the field

00:32:31.840 so you don't have to go there to see what's it like with the energy and vibes on the left as they

00:32:38.240 are doing all this craziness now chris we saw these hands-off protests emerge all over the country

00:32:44.320 and uh you went to one in san diego tell us what you found it was a leftist fever dream you would

00:32:51.120 think that you know trump is loading you know homosexuals and trans individuals into paddy wagons based

00:32:56.960 off of the way these people are reacting just ray outrage and uh you know but tell us where you

00:33:02.880 went uh so i was at um on saturday i was at the hands-off protest hands-off i guess um finding waste

00:33:10.480 fraud and abuse within our government um and then the um educate anti-education protest on tuesday that

00:33:17.040 was um linda mcmahon well let's start with the hands-off one all of your protests are hands-on are they

00:33:21.760 non-fish every single one yes all hands-on but these are the hands-off ones so do we have any

00:33:27.280 clips any interesting uh content you want to yes absolutely so um there was a uh a very low

00:33:32.480 testosterone male who attacked uh moms for liberty uh for trying to ban certain books um we have that

00:33:39.520 clip banning books from i wasn't aware of that what that's that's a an effort by moms for liberty you

00:33:46.000 you know they go and they they are they're you know trying to get books that they don't like other

00:33:51.360 populations that they don't like and they'll go and they they just ban a whole bunch you know they

00:33:58.080 they put forth that these books should be banned so what stood out about this to you uh so this

00:34:05.920 gentleman is calling out moms for liberty for trying to quote unquote ban books that show uh you know

00:34:11.920 graphic images of child children doing you know sex very sexualized things and uh so i i don't think

00:34:19.680 there's anything wrong with doing that but the i think this guy was definitely a paid protester based

00:34:24.320 off the fact that he had sunglasses and a mask on you basically you could not see his face and he did

00:34:29.120 have the talking points down pretty well what what percentage chris of the people out here are masked

00:34:34.640 that these things you've been going to i would say at least like 40 percent no yes i was gonna guess

00:34:40.960 like maybe one in five like walking around the country what do you say like maybe one in every

00:34:48.240 10 15 people might be wearing a mask that might even be high today yeah oh that's way too high one

00:34:54.560 in five one in ten or twenty five percent think about that no way no it's way less now but 40 at one of

00:35:02.560 these protests but 40 at one of these protests that's no not now we're in ten something's up there's

00:35:07.920 something's up i think chel is maybe on onto onto that a little bit that those are the paid guys

00:35:13.680 they dodging the facial recognition or what about like yeah out of like 40 people there were like i

00:35:19.120 would say probably yet 15 at least masked up sunglasses bandana over their face uh to try to

00:35:28.960 like conceal their identities well well you know it's interesting because that guy had like you know one of

00:35:34.640 the like the covid masks right if you remember like before covid those protests anything like that

00:35:40.800 it was all black block right these guys were all blacked up black mask black everything after covid

00:35:47.120 it's a lot of these people in like medical masks and i think it's it's an optics play right because if you

00:35:53.680 see a bunch of people in like black block outfits protesting you might have a negative sense like you

00:36:00.160 know in your in your heart or in your mind you're saying there's something that says i care about

00:36:04.640 you in a medical mask well no it's more like i'm i'm a victim right i'm i'm i'm hurt i could get hurt

00:36:11.440 if i catch something just trying to i'm just trying to protect myself it's more sympathetic all right

00:36:16.320 all right you got another clip from the from the event uh set it up for us uh yeah so uh this gentleman

00:36:21.680 uh believes uh that this is the start of a revolution i believe uh the revolution will be

00:36:29.360 amplified and the reason why i'm here is to help provide amplification when you say revolution

00:36:37.760 what i mean is uh there needs to be a complete restructuring of what's happening right now and

00:36:44.960 and a revolution is the only way that we can do that all right vish if there's a revolution that

00:36:51.920 occurs between those dudes and the moms for liberty on the other side which side are you taking the

00:36:59.760 moms for liberty every single time a bunch of mama bears or those betas oh no 100 the mama bears are

00:37:07.200 not that those the mama bears are going to be doling out spankings for all of these people missing

00:37:12.960 school all of these people cutting work you know get getting out of work or not having a job right

00:37:18.720 and they have to go back to home to all their moms and bug them for meatloaf for dinner right that's

00:37:25.520 what i think those mama bears would put those guys on notice all right chris tell me what the terms

00:37:29.760 are of this revolution well you know i think it's interesting uh that jack basobic said on uh your

00:37:35.120 program on thursday that you know we are witnessing the underpinnings of a communist uh revolution um and so

00:37:41.360 you know i believe this gentleman wanted to say more but kind of restrained himself from you know

00:37:48.640 uh you know possibly saying anything that could be uh construed as inciting violence but is he right

00:37:54.320 on the core um allegation that this revolution is upon us uh i think that there is something to it yeah

00:38:02.160 well i mean if you look at the tesla protests if you look at uh the trans murder cult uh you know

00:38:11.920 going on um there's a lot there there's just all this energy that is oh and the luigi man joni lovers

00:38:20.160 right there's all this sort of pent up energy to get back at the perceived enemy but there's no direction

00:38:29.600 for it right there's no like we're gonna go after this guy we're gonna go after this guy and so it's just

00:38:34.960 all spot it's like low decentralized lone wolf sputtering of energy all over the people what is

00:38:41.760 it though chris tell me when you were there and observing this uh did it seem organic were there

00:38:47.520 leaders in the group organizers a central message like bring us into the vibes of it all so there um

00:38:54.720 there were groups there uh like uh 50 51 not to be confused with a 51 50 which is what many of these

00:39:01.040 people should probably be under but um uh this and that group is you know heavily tied to george soros

00:39:06.880 um uh indivisible move on all sponsors of both of these protests so if you look at that

00:39:15.280 it is you know it's kind of follow the money and uh i believe yeah that uh these are not necessarily

00:39:21.920 organic i believe there may be some people who see the protest going on and oh yeah i'll join in you

00:39:26.880 know sure like especially at the hands-off you know protests when you had you know people you

00:39:31.520 know blocking the entire street uh do you think they're effective do you think i mean we're seeing

00:39:36.640 these everywhere they are getting crowds do you think that this is an effective political strategy

00:39:41.520 no i i do not because donald trump and elon musk is laughing at these people i mean maybe not the

00:39:47.680 burning of the tesla stations but the people you know screaming and and ranting and raving uh i think

00:39:52.800 you know he's trolling them and i think that the trump administration is not going to be derailed

00:39:57.840 by a bunch of psychopaths screaming into the night what do you think visually effective i do not think

00:40:04.800 they are effective for the left specifically and the reason i believe that is because the left is stuck

00:40:11.520 in a 1960s uh civil war uh sorry civil rights era mentality and they have been relying on these protests

00:40:20.000 since then to effectuate the change that they've always wanted to see that they've gotten right and

00:40:26.400 so they are kind of relying on that old playbook today but that doesn't really work when you are

00:40:33.440 essentially the establishment regime right like you've got everything you're the changes you wanted

00:40:40.320 are in place and so since the trump era they've been trying to recreate this energy but it doesn't make

00:40:47.040 sense because it's like no you guys are the ones really kind of in charge and so you protesting in

00:40:52.400 the streets doesn't really work whereas now for the right protesting in the street looks great for us

00:41:00.240 it's the the effect has been flipped because the whole point is that you know the the media and and

00:41:07.200 the naysayers out there will say well you know maga isn't real these people aren't real life people

00:41:12.320 they only exist online they're not real they don't say that after the last election well

00:41:16.480 no but but it took till the last election before that it was all we weren't real people right it

00:41:22.080 only existed online and so when we come out and we do big protests in the street they're like oh

00:41:28.320 all these people are real and here for donald trump or maga or whatever it is the mark that life is a

00:41:33.360 great right that gives a different effect for us and so they are stuck in the 60s so a civil rights era

00:41:40.800 of thinking protests will work for them the same way did then when it's when the kind of tables have

00:41:46.720 turned now and it doesn't really work for them i don't know if i agree with you uh you both on this

00:41:52.000 because i think there's such a yearning for action on the left right now they feel look whether you like

00:41:57.920 trump or you don't like him that he is a man of action things are happening the border is not the same

00:42:03.520 as it was the trade dynamic is not the same even the internet is not the same with the combating of

00:42:10.240 the censorship the corporate environment has totally changed even how they're doing hiring

00:42:15.200 and promotions and quotas has all been turned on its head and i am here for absolutely all of that

00:42:23.120 but with a rudderless movement on the left there has to be a call to do something and at least these

00:42:30.240 protests are giving them a chance to register people i bet you i will bet you that they are

00:42:37.520 geofencing all of these hands-off events they are micro targeting their low propensity voters they are

00:42:44.880 preparing to get those folks out in the midterms where historically the party out of power does pretty

00:42:49.600 well in the first midterm if they get destructive if they get violent i think it turns but i think if

00:42:57.920 they're out there showing some force uh it actually could activate the features of their coalition

00:43:05.600 that they need to be successful and it got me thinking what are the core elements of a successful

00:43:13.440 gathering protest um the street theater that you've been involved in that you've been involved in

00:43:19.600 as an activist and so maybe i'll ask you first vision then chris when you're when you're doing the

00:43:25.920 like obituary of a protest a rally movement after what's the look back to say that worked yeah so one

00:43:35.200 of my favorite protests that i helped organize was the 2021 reoccupy wall street with the new york young

00:43:42.800 republican club right and uh we had to move fast on that when we first did it so uh you know the the game

00:43:50.320 stop trade was now uh you know the stopping of the trades was announced about 24 hours later we

00:43:56.960 announced that we were going to do this uh reoccupy wall street in the same spot that the original occupy

00:44:03.200 wall street uh protests happened now that was done on purpose first we wanted the reason we titled it that

00:44:10.880 way is because we are trying to recapture what has what is already familiar with the public so that they can

00:44:17.520 immediately identify what we're trying to do b we went and did it in the same place zuccotti park

00:44:24.160 that the original protests happened in because we are now claiming that territory for ourselves

00:44:29.840 to protest wall street right because well the left originally so what i'm hearing out of all this is

00:44:36.000 it's the where is very important the symbolism yes to that yeah the ability to convert the other

00:44:43.920 side's argument to your purpose that is an essential feature yes absolutely so there's that sort of

00:44:49.600 bannon-esque recapturing the language uh element to that there as well promotion is also very very key

00:44:57.760 to it through all your channels externally internally texting people to come right then once you once once

00:45:05.360 that promo and all that is in place and you're pushing it it's the action once people show up what you

00:45:11.520 need is the focal point right and so there's a there's a window where all of these people where

00:45:17.760 there's a critical mass of people there and then you have to put on the show when the critical mass is

00:45:24.080 there because other people observing will want to walk away they they are only going to focus on that

00:45:29.920 moment when there's a lot of people there and we make a statement about why we're all there and what

00:45:35.840 we're fighting for and so when that critical mass happens you get on the stage right and a lot of

00:45:41.600 these uh press people will go come and they'll set up the mics and everything for you because they need

00:45:47.200 to walk away with with a moment there too they don't want to call back to their stations and say

00:45:52.080 we didn't get any footage we didn't get any sound bites or anything so we're serving a purpose there

00:45:57.200 too they'll they set up the press stand and everything and we hit the mics and we get as many speakers

00:46:02.720 going that are on our side as possible to come up give face and voice to what we're doing there

00:46:09.360 right and so that's why the masks thing doesn't work right you need someone to go up there and be

00:46:14.000 like i'm a face and voice uh of this or one of the faces and voice of this this is why we're doing what

00:46:19.440 we're doing this is what we're going to do and this is what we're fighting against and we're not going

00:46:23.680 to stop until we get the change that we want but in a way that teases out a core distinction between

00:46:29.680 the right and the left we appreciate our identity our voice our likeness our image whereas to them

00:46:36.320 being part of the mobilized faceless masses lends itself to the marxism and the and the stalinism

00:46:46.400 well it's it's basically the borg right from star trek right like it's all they all move the same

00:46:52.880 they are it's the hive mind mentality they can be faceless they can be the zeros and ones in the system

00:46:59.440 they want to be they want to be all right so chris what do you think are the features of like

00:47:03.520 successful street theater a protest that achieve its its objectives i think definitely vish hit on

00:47:09.440 capturing the moment that's extremely important um but also being able to thoroughly articulate

00:47:15.360 your message um and get it across in a way that doesn't sound cruel um that sounds like you know like

00:47:22.560 i i i look at the march for life that had an effect roe v wade was overturned and it was because

00:47:28.960 millions of people every single year turned up and showed up in washington dc to march for

00:47:36.400 the rights of unborn children um so i think yeah being able to articulate the message and just and

00:47:42.320 genuinely believing in what you are doing if you are just out there regurgitating talking points because

00:47:49.280 you've been paid and told to hold a sign up i think it it comes through as as hollow and it but

00:47:55.520 if you're sincere and i met a lot of people out there you know at these protests i think we're

00:48:00.000 genuinely sincere insane but sincere um but you know i mean i think yeah the sincerity is is is very

00:48:07.760 you got to get true believers all right well here's here's what i will overlay onto each of you providing

00:48:12.720 what i consider a very artistic description of success versus failure in these moments

00:48:17.920 one you got to have a crowd i've seen some of these uh gatherings of like six democrat congressmen

00:48:25.200 outside the department of education building or the usa id building and it is just so lonely and sad

00:48:32.320 and no one wants to be a part of it the whole concept of gathering is togetherness right if you

00:48:37.120 don't have a lot of people you're together with it fails right so number one gotta have a crowd

00:48:42.160 number two gotta have press if if the media is not paying attention if you have not done something

00:48:48.800 to force people to pay attention to you uh i think you've missed what chris was saying is the core

00:48:55.440 thing of the the sincerity and catching the moment i think that's what brings you the media

00:49:00.640 the third thing and at at our political rallies at trump's rallies this always happened organically but

00:49:06.880 you really want to push it you turn everyone into a publisher rather than someone just being part of

00:49:13.200 the crowd being someone giving a speech or waving a sign to get people publishing the content because

00:49:20.160 look everybody has a platform right now if you're watching this show you have a platform maybe it's a

00:49:26.640 few dozen people a few hundred a few thousand a few million but you but activating those platforms

00:49:34.320 for your particular messages that is how you achieve scale today didn't used to be the case

00:49:39.280 but that is the power we carry around with all of us and collectively it's an incredible thing and

00:49:43.920 i think it's what delivered donald trump the presidency and what can endure the um the slings and arrows

00:49:49.840 of the left and can guarantee a durable path forward for the values we've been talking about the things

00:49:55.440 that we cherish i think you're a hundred percent right you hit that um but you know what i do want

00:50:01.440 to talk about one instance where i do have to push back and say yes those are all the right ingredients

00:50:06.960 in the right playbook but there's some times where some of that stuff doesn't matter uh namely the crowd

00:50:14.560 right and there's one example i want to bring up the day the indictment of donald trump from the new

00:50:19.920 york da's office dropped right it was announced uh not the actual uh when donald trump came to for

00:50:29.120 the arraignment we the new york young republicans announced a protest 24 48 hours that we were going

00:50:36.480 to do it after that announcement came and we show up there's about 40 of us there right which is pretty

00:50:45.680 actually kind of low for the new york young republicans but about 100 150 members of the press

00:50:51.040 that were there and the the reason we did it and we we kind of knew we weren't going to get the

00:50:57.360 turnout that we wanted because there wasn't enough time to promote it it was on a uh a work day and

00:51:02.960 everything so just the logistics of it didn't quite work out well but the reason we did it anyway was

00:51:08.000 because there was a lot of clamoring uh on especially amongst our allies on the right who were saying

00:51:15.520 no don't do it because it's another setup like j6 if anyone shows up to protest the court courthouse

00:51:22.800 it's going to be just like j6 everyone's going to get set up and we said no we are not going to cow

00:51:30.480 ourselves in not showing up because uh somebody thinks that it's going to be another fed sort of

00:51:37.360 psyop and we did it because we wanted to show that it's still okay to do it right just getting out there

00:51:43.840 and and showing up and doing it was way more important for us than having you know 200 300

00:51:50.960 people show up and because we did that i think that that opened up the door for when the arraignment

00:51:57.360 happened and we announced that we were going to come and protest there that's when we had almost a

00:52:01.680 thousand people in the but i think okay so take that mentality and apply it to what we're seeing from

00:52:06.560 the left today they're doing something yes in these hands-off protests and i think what they're hoping

00:52:13.760 is that follow-on wave is the turnout they get in the midterm election and we'll have to follow it

00:52:18.240 closely and we'll have to analyze whether or not they they get there but that i'm sorry chris just one

00:52:24.400 point you made about the democrats being so directionless you know i talked to so many people in

00:52:28.400 the crowd who were genuinely inspired by cory booker's 25 hour speech simply because he was up

00:52:36.240 there talking and like providing a sense of comfort it's gonna be okay yeah i mean it it's just hilarious

00:52:42.800 to me if you're requiring cory booker for comfort uh i think that says a lot more about you than it does

00:52:48.240 about the state of our modern politics that is all the time we have thanks everyone make sure you give us

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The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - April 15, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Be Cool. It’ll Work Out.

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