The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz

00:00:00.000 now it's time for the anchorman podcast with matt gates and dan ball

00:00:11.320 welcome back to the anchorman program i'm matt gates host of the matt gates show here on one

00:00:20.520 american news every night nine eastern six pacific and i am joined by absolutely the smartest group

00:00:27.380 of people i have ever had on anchorman as always my colleague on the matt gates show the original

00:00:34.680 producer of steve bannon's war room worked on capitol hill in my office in congressman santos

00:00:40.500 office vish burrah thank you for being back with us always a pleasure and and and kara mckinney

00:00:45.620 kara one of our hosts here at one american news and whenever i want to know how the really brilliant

00:00:50.760 people are thinking about something in the news i i ask kara's viewpoint thank you for joining us on

00:00:54.880 the program again you're too kind but thank you and we've got joining us uh through the zoom machine

00:01:01.900 alan bakari the managing director of the foundation for freedom online i have been a follower of alums

00:01:07.520 i i believe i probably hold the record for the most work of alums submitted by a congressman to the

00:01:14.380 congressional record uh whether it is uh the work that he's done on on censorship um on the the

00:01:21.860 different excesses of power in the bureaucratic state uh i i really became a fan early in my

00:01:27.780 congressional career of your writing and thinking and work and it's incredible to have you with us

00:01:31.360 so here's what we're going to do i've asked all of you to think about one big question in the news

00:01:39.320 in culture and politics and policy right now that you want to discuss among the group and we are of

00:01:45.600 course as gentlemen gonna go ladies first and cara you know what is it out there that you're

00:01:51.700 looking at or thinking about that uh that could really reshape the way that we're living here in

00:01:55.920 the country well so one of there's a lot of issues right going on in politics immigration is a big one

00:02:02.480 social security we've heard that come up so many issues but they all kind of seem to hover around a

00:02:07.640 central theme that is not talked about as much and that's the birth rate crisis that's something

00:02:12.260 president trump is tapping the heritage foundation some others to start thinking about ways to

00:02:17.080 improve u.s fertility so i know one idea that's under current discussion is the possibility i know

00:02:24.940 president trump was asking he said well sounds good don't know if it'll come to fruition but at least

00:02:30.180 a starting point right now for this discussion is giving new mothers five thousand dollars per child

00:02:35.700 so i guess that's the launching off part is should we pay women to have children is that a good idea

00:02:41.020 a bad idea will that help help to improve the birth rates because you know one of the reasons why we

00:02:46.600 have this immigration crisis from the neoliberals and the neoconservatives uh senator chuck schumer

00:02:51.080 said i think a year or two ago he he made some flipping comment about well you guys aren't having kids so

00:02:55.880 we got to bring people over to work and pay taxes and the rest and we see the the fallout from the

00:03:01.100 immigration debate both legal and illegal immigration and again it hovers around the central theme of

00:03:06.060 birth rates i think around the year 2023 is when the u.s kind of cratered into sub replacement level

00:03:12.620 births it was about two two and a half kids is what the average was for women now it's i believe 1.63

00:03:19.120 somewhere around there so below the 2.1 needed to replace just the current population uh so for my part

00:03:27.240 on the 5 000 i see it as okay so i disagree with the policy but i agree with the idea behind it right

00:03:36.080 one thing i appreciate is that president trump wants to have the government and the wider public

00:03:42.320 finally thank women and thank them for having babies that's something that we've seen really

00:03:47.240 dismissed and caricatured for so long so i appreciate that i just don't think it's going to get to the

00:03:53.640 root of the issue and one of the roots of the issue for the the birth rate crisis is that people just

00:03:58.720 aren't getting married or aren't getting married soon enough that is part of the reason why we're not

00:04:04.740 having as many babies and so then there's a lot more questions that come into that but i think it's

00:04:08.840 not going to address that so i don't think it'll work but i appreciate i appreciate the support mr

00:04:13.040 president well i've always seen because i agree look the birth rate uh decline is a big issue

00:04:22.240 and i'm glad that that president trump has picked up this issue and i i like the spirit essentially

00:04:29.480 behind the proposal but i don't like the idea without really serious stipulations right i've always seen

00:04:36.800 the government as like a terrible polygamist right that the government has essentially decided that it's

00:04:43.940 going to marry every single woman uh on in in america and then provide them benefits based on

00:04:51.320 terrible incentives right and so if you have a child but you're below the poverty line you may

00:04:59.100 get 500 a month from the government but if you have one child and you're below the power poverty line

00:05:06.320 and you have no man at home or no husband at home you get 800 therefore the way to get more money out

00:05:14.960 of the government is to make sure to have a kid without a husband that is the incentive and so i

00:05:21.360 don't like the way that incentive structure is currently set up i think that it creates uh uh bad

00:05:29.400 outcomes and i think that that's ultimately what needs to be tamped down and if we're going to do this

00:05:35.380 5k per uh baby to mothers it should be stipulated to you know a it's it's a child with somebody you're

00:05:43.860 married to and are currently married to and i think that that is a good stipulation to have on such a

00:05:50.440 policy uh i think that that if you even want to talk about directionally getting the government away

00:05:57.040 from doing this kind of uh payout structure based on bad incentives i'm more in favor of a flat rate

00:06:04.940 where you basically say if you're below the poverty line here's a thousand dollars a month good luck

00:06:11.080 right i don't care if you have one kid i don't care if you have 10 kids i don't care if it's out of

00:06:16.760 wedlock or you're currently married this is the flat fee or the flat um amount that we give for people

00:06:24.340 in need and that's that you know muammar gaddafi you know i he might be not the best example but for

00:06:31.360 his people he did incentivize a lot of these things this family formation things business formation

00:06:37.760 uh getting a home and would incentivize it and then they dragged him in the streets and killed him

00:06:42.860 yeah well i mean look they they look uh i'm not going to say that everyone was happy with him

00:06:49.460 um he also kept a lot of migrants out of europe fair yeah yeah but like i think that that that he did

00:06:56.400 incentivize a lot of the right things for his people and i think donald trump is taking some of

00:07:02.600 that spirit alum you in on the 5k child tax credit bump well i'm going to be boring and agree with the

00:07:09.400 rest of the panel and say yes the spirit of it is is good it's good that the administration is trying

00:07:14.940 to address this problem because uh you know trying to trying to fix low birth rates and the impact that

00:07:21.980 has on the economy by just importing more people from foreign shores obviously hasn't worked it's led to

00:07:27.100 the kind of moment of political turmoil we're currently in and you know trying to trying to

00:07:33.240 like correct the mistakes of the past 10 years with mass immigration but as as vish said the problem is

00:07:38.740 incentives you give five thousand dollars to uh to people who are having kids what are the other

00:07:44.040 conditions are they going to be married do they have their own independent income uh you have to

00:07:49.020 think about you know wait hold on alan would you titrate it based on that like you get two grand for

00:07:54.720 an out of wedlock kid if you get the ring maybe like an extra 3k and if you get all the way to the

00:08:00.800 altar like 10k would you would you tier it well i think it should be tiered in in some regards absolutely

00:08:08.080 because you know out of wedlock kids are not uh you know lead to all sorts of social problems uh the

00:08:14.640 other the other thing i'd say is you know what sort of income does the family already have that they're

00:08:19.540 getting so like the sort of person for whom five thousand dollars is a lot of money are they going to

00:08:24.580 have uh be able to provide an environment for raising a child that's actually good and stable

00:08:29.320 uh and and uh and decent that that's another thing to consider i mean you know the question is you know

00:08:36.660 is five thousand dollars actually not enough i mean you know you want to incentivize people who uh

00:08:42.680 who don't who think uh who might think that five thousand dollars is not that much money so how do you

00:08:48.060 incentivize people like that because they're they probably have in those sorts of people probably have

00:08:51.660 independent incomes they probably they're the sort of people you want to have kids because they're

00:08:56.120 able to provide a good environment for the uh for the child they're raising this is so pathetic that

00:09:00.400 we have to sit around wondering how the government has to appropriately incentivize people to have

00:09:04.480 children because like wasn't mother nature supposed to do that like weren't we told to go forth and

00:09:09.960 multiply we have to sit here and figure out what lever the government has to toggle to get us in this

00:09:14.820 business do you who is the person model the person for me for whom this five grand is the dispositive

00:09:20.920 factor they're sitting around and saying you know what honey i'm really deciding if we're gonna have

00:09:25.320 the kid or not tell you what the extra 5k is what gets us there time to make the magic happen well

00:09:30.760 unfortunately you will then to start incentivizing as you were saying earlier and i've seen some of

00:09:35.280 these videos there's these videos on x going around and it's this woman saying when that ebt money hits

00:09:40.080 right and it's the mom with the kids from all the different dads and she's not too good at raising

00:09:44.620 them watching them inculcating them with wisdom virtue values anything like that that's who you would

00:09:50.280 be incentivizing so if the left's issue is that they think think power underlies everything every

00:09:56.960 relationship every interaction between people an issue for the right is they think money underlies as

00:10:02.820 if you just give money and then people say okay i guess i'll have a kid now do you think that those

00:10:07.100 people exist do you think the people exist out there in mass that like the 5k is the key decision

00:10:12.880 maker because i'll just tell you this vish would love to have children but the issue is not five

00:10:16.680 thousand dollars it's that he hasn't found the right person to have them with i was gonna exactly so

00:10:21.080 like i was talking about so the marriage the delay i just wrote i'm sorry it's okay please

00:10:27.520 it's true it's totally true by the way you'd pay the five thousand dollars look i would i would pay the

00:10:34.640 five thousand maybe but i i think right there another to another point it's not just the five

00:10:39.380 thousand dollars it's the family formation is more about like economics you know if i can't get two

00:10:45.280 people together whose combined income can make a down payment and the monthly payment on a home

00:10:50.800 right i could then i don't even have a home to put to raise my family in and if i don't and if i'm

00:10:57.180 working 12 hours a day and my wife is working 12 hours a day who who's gonna do the chores around the

00:11:02.900 house right and like there's not there and and the illegal immigrants that chuck schumer is going

00:11:07.680 to bring back from el salvador yeah they are going to be the ones that are going to do it for you

00:11:11.300 so another huge issue right is why people aren't matching up a a lot of people now come from divorced

00:11:16.760 or broken homes so they they know that pain very intimately they don't want to repeat it so they're

00:11:20.760 afraid there's a failure to launch for a lot of young people a lot of young people it's a weird

00:11:25.200 duality you were cocooned in your bubble in the daycare system the public school system and in your

00:11:30.920 parents house where the entire idea is safetyism don't get hurt don't try and you know go out into

00:11:36.860 the world just stay here eyes on the screen eyes where i can see you and stay safe and then all

00:11:41.680 sudden at 18 years old this school system and daycare and everything that's kind of carried you

00:11:46.140 in this this cocoon bubble now spits you onto the world and say bootstraps make your life when the game

00:11:52.480 is in many ways rigged against you economically and a lot of people they don't know what to do with

00:11:57.080 that they don't have a religious back or tradition to fall back on they don't have wisdom a lot of

00:12:01.700 times their parents are the ones who screwed up too so their parents can't give them the wisdom

00:12:04.880 the parents themselves didn't have and so a lot of people find themselves floundering going i don't

00:12:09.020 know what i want to do and the entire world just says do you buddy whatever makes you happy and then

00:12:13.820 you're sitting there going i don't know what makes me happy so a lot of people have failure to launch

00:12:17.000 they start doing the drugs they're drinking too much they don't put their mind into anything useful

00:12:22.560 and then you start to see a lot of psychosis and mental illness because of this and so if you are

00:12:27.280 a young person and you're trying to find your your forever person your your marriage your spouse someone

00:12:32.180 that you actually want to have a kid with well it's really hard look at the dating scene right now that's

00:12:36.060 why the joke is if you're currently married or in a stable relationship you feel like you got the last

00:12:40.800 helicopter out of nom because it's it's it's a it's like a battlefield down there you start talking to

00:12:46.120 someone you find out they're kind of psychotic why would you want to have a kid with them those are a lot

00:12:50.360 of the more serious issues that the 5 000 isn't going to fix i'm currently behind enemy lines on

00:12:55.620 that one so are americans stuck in their starter mortgage rates and their starter marriages for

00:13:01.340 the same reason because you got a good deal with like a low interest rate and like a decently

00:13:05.840 respectable spouse that you could possibly procreate with and thus you should just lock in your current

00:13:10.980 deal forever is that where america sits it's a truly depressing conversation i think the uh the other

00:13:16.840 thing we have to consider is um there are we've got two generations now that receive little to no

00:13:23.800 mainstream instruction in relationships or marriage that sort of instruction used to come from religions

00:13:29.260 uh the closest thing modern society has to an official ideology of relationships and gender roles and

00:13:36.540 gender relations is feminism which uh obviously is is you know completely crackpot in many cases

00:13:42.260 so there's there's been no serious replacement for organized religion in terms of instructing young

00:13:48.400 people and teaching young people about relations and relationships and marriage and things like

00:13:53.040 that everything gets replaced everything gets replaced right because that vacuum has been filled by the

00:13:58.340 algorithm it's been filled refilled by the tiktok snapchat uh instagram algorithm and that's a very

00:14:04.860 sad thing and speaking of tech alum you wanted to pose a macro question to us about sort of where the

00:14:11.500 right positions on a lot of our our new tech bros what are you thinking about it yeah there's this

00:14:17.180 there's been this term that's been tossed around for you know about half a year now the so-called tech

00:14:22.620 right which i find to be first of all a little bit of a suspect term there's a big difference between say

00:14:28.780 elon musk um and the x platform and you know mark zuckerberg and meta and google and microsoft uh you know

00:14:36.460 musk i think stands on his own he poured you know hundreds of millions of dollars of his own money

00:14:41.100 into the election campaign last year he bought twitter and restored free speech for the most

00:14:46.900 part i mean you know if anyone's qualified to hold the label tech right it would be him uh just because

00:14:53.060 of you know the the clear weight of his contributions but on the other hand you have people like mark

00:14:57.780 zuckerberg and meta who spent uh you know the last month lobbying the trump administration to drop this

00:15:03.560 ftc case against the company that might break them up and you know zuckerberg has sort of pivoted

00:15:10.920 towards the right he went on joe rogan he trashed joe biden he donated a million dollars to the

00:15:16.660 inauguration committee but you know he said he wants to bring back free speech but there are still major

00:15:23.100 conservative influencers uh pro-trump influencers who are banned on meta platforms um and then you

00:15:30.040 have companies like microsoft and uh and even amazon who've done little to nothing to to show that

00:15:36.640 they're part of a so-called tech right um so i wonder about this term and where where the where where

00:15:43.180 the tech right is even going if there even is a tech right because if you compare something like

00:15:48.220 mark zuckerberg donating almost half a billion dollars in 2020 to those infamous ballot drop boxes

00:15:54.880 in swing states that were so pivotal in winning the election for joe biden and you know you compare

00:16:00.600 that to what he's done recently he said he's pro-free speech he hasn't made any big his his chance

00:16:05.940 zuckerberg initiative has not made any big donations to pro-free speech causes you know he says he's against

00:16:11.580 european censorship laws is he supporting the people who are fighting back against european censorship laws

00:16:16.800 in europe mostly the populist right no sign of that happening he hasn't even unbanned some of these

00:16:22.600 people so i wonder where where the uh where the tech right is going and if there even is a tech right

00:16:29.140 and where the tech right and the manga right can find alignment um so what do you got what are your

00:16:35.540 guys thoughts on that well i want to go first on that i think i think there is a tech right uh i think

00:16:42.100 that there is a spectrum to it uh you know elon musk is probably the most prominent uh who has

00:16:49.140 exhibited the most prominent let's say right wing uh ideas or ideologies um in his on his twitter posts

00:16:56.980 and some of his interviews uh i but i also think that it you know there's the mark andreessen's of

00:17:02.460 the world uh there is the you know the sam altman's then it goes further left i think to mark zuckerberg

00:17:08.600 and then there's i think still plenty of holdovers who will never call themselves the tech right who

00:17:13.560 are denizens of silicon valley uh i but i do think that for the long term if we want to talk about

00:17:20.140 coalition building if we want to talk about where is the opportunity to expand our numbers not just in

00:17:26.680 the talent pool but uh in the voter pool uh i think that there is an opportunity with the tech right

00:17:33.580 um and a lot of these folks who are pissed off at uh the the sort of quality of life degradation and

00:17:40.920 silicon valley and san francisco a lot of those people ended up moving to austin texas and uh

00:17:46.480 phoenix arizona etc i think that there is an opportunity to build with those people and the

00:17:52.260 reason i say that is because these are people yeah but you gotta beef with them don't give me that

00:17:57.100 hold on let me can i hold on i want to start by setting up the the positive is that they they have

00:18:04.000 a positive vision of wanting to build but the negative part of that is that they want to build

00:18:09.940 at the cheapest cost possible because that in turn translates into profits into their pockets and the

00:18:16.660 way that they're willing to do that and want to do it and are advocating to do it is by unleashing

00:18:23.020 the h1b visa to its maximum potential and that i think is a terrible terrible idea the the maga

00:18:31.820 right that the tech right wants to kind of ride off of into donald trump's ear and and a circle of

00:18:39.860 influence the maga rights number one issue since day one has always been immigration and it's

00:18:46.040 immigration across the spectrum that's not just low-skilled immigration but that's high-skilled

00:18:50.580 immigration as well that is the h1b visa the h1b visa i have so much experience with this okay yeah

00:18:58.120 no i get you could lead the indian americans against h1b visa coalition but but but but to to the point

00:19:04.660 he's presenting about the future of the coalition so i think you did a great job framing up where the

00:19:09.940 coalition blossoms and where it fractures yeah so what what are the terms of the relationship then

00:19:15.400 well i think that we need to basically come to detente on immigration you guys are out of the

00:19:21.880 conversation period the tech right is out of the conversation when it comes to immigration

00:19:26.420 maga gets what it wants on immigration so we censor the tech right on we don't have to censor them

00:19:32.200 because we could beat them down with our ideas all right all right as we've done what are the other

00:19:36.280 terms and then we're going to hear cara on the the other the tariff and trade war stuff that's also

00:19:41.880 going to be a contentious issue the moment the moment that the the electric jewel is cheaper

00:19:47.980 in any other country than in america you will see every data center in america be offshored into that

00:19:55.900 country because data centers and databases are all about the cost of energy and the and that's why they

00:20:02.600 haven't moved to china because thank god energy is still cheaper in america than it is in china so

00:20:08.660 that's another part now what we will give to them is the opportunity to continue building to have

00:20:15.080 beautiful cities and that are you know law and order uh clean uh rid them of homelessness they want

00:20:22.480 their utopias they are utopians at the end of the day we will help make that happen but you're not

00:20:27.280 going to flood them with every third worlder who knows c plus plus or dot net or javascript uh at

00:20:34.840 one tenth of the rate that you would have to pay an american we're not doing that well because they're

00:20:39.960 not conservative right you know anyone the tech right as is silicon valley know they're moving down

00:20:45.260 to texas they're going to make texas blue right they've been democrats been saying that for years

00:20:49.040 they're well on their way to doing that they're not conservative in the sense that i'm rooted in time

00:20:54.480 place history and america as a people right and those who want to join and be part of that rooted

00:21:00.000 cultural movement the tech right will always see that as an issue because what is tech it's

00:21:05.120 creative destruction they need to keep destroying the bonds that that tie and to to create new wants

00:21:10.880 and needs and desires and people that's in effect what marketing is you didn't know you wanted this

00:21:15.100 product but i'm going to make you think that you need it now even though you never knew about it

00:21:18.880 before it's creating new desires and people it's creating bonds that used to hold you because

00:21:23.380 if i and my husband and our baby if we're able to be a self-sufficient unit like i said with our

00:21:29.500 friends our family and our community will be quite self-sufficient we don't need every new gadget and

00:21:33.680 gizmo that will be coming off the the um the conveyor belt that silicon valley would like to

00:21:38.880 provide for us but if we're all isolated atomized people well then that's all we kind of have left

00:21:44.020 to ourselves we're just consumers nothing but consumers i know there's the meme about just

00:21:48.300 consume but that's why they need you atomized so well hold on because there's tension between what you

00:21:52.960 and vish are saying there because what vish is saying is that the core of the relationship can be built

00:21:57.660 on a unified desire for the utopia that is clean and doesn't have your third grade teacher trying

00:22:03.840 to turn your kid trans uh but what you say is that those tech elites just view us all as uh as

00:22:11.840 pieces of the economy producers and and consumers yes not a part of their utopia oh yeah you know

00:22:17.600 because they will no matter what overtures they try and do to maggot now they will turn into obama

00:22:22.620 really fast the whole you bitter clingers with your bibles and your guns because that's how they see us

00:22:27.120 they see us stodgy set in our ways backwards and holding back mankind from all that we could be

00:22:31.340 with transhumanism and all this techno futurism and all the like and so i think that that is a

00:22:36.660 direct conflict that will always be there so from my perspective as a paleo conservative uh post-liberal

00:22:44.460 uh catholic integralist so many labels i guess everyone's a label these days um i there will always be

00:22:50.820 friction but i can um you know work with like elon musk he does a lot of great work at doge and so there

00:22:56.040 are places where we can agree but there's i don't want them leading the conservative movement i think

00:22:59.840 that's an issue the right has all the time you'll have these hardcore just left wingers and they say

00:23:04.760 something banally you know something that's just like true kind of i guess and the next you know

00:23:09.980 the conservative right is like let's make them the face of our movement so we need to make sure we

00:23:14.280 don't do that with the tech right because they're not truly conservative it's in a lot of their

00:23:20.040 overtures now it's similar to i don't know if you're familiar with scott horn at the libertarian

00:23:24.580 institute he kind of um talked about this with the atf and waco in the 90s how you know you had

00:23:30.320 so many republicans back to back to back in the presidency and you finally have bill clinton so they

00:23:34.240 thought wow the pendulum's swinging we're gonna have democrats for a while the atf's like let's you

00:23:38.600 know make these democrats really like us let's kill a bunch of fundamentalists on tv i kind of see

00:23:43.480 that as like the tech right in a sense it's like well you know we had the left the left went as hard

00:23:48.620 as they could after stealing it in 2020 the people rejected a lot of the tenants of wokeness so maybe

00:23:54.400 the right will be in power for a while and while president trump has a lot of popular support let's

00:23:59.040 ride that way but in a very cynical machiavellian way so it is all transactional go ahead so i'll

00:24:05.900 disagree just slightly with what cara said there i think the uh the creative destruction part of tech

00:24:12.200 is i would say the best part of the tech industry i love the way they creatively destroyed the

00:24:17.880 mainstream media and they continue to do so they they made podcasting culture possible they uh they

00:24:24.960 made uh centralized media organizations like the new york times and cnn if not obsolete but then well

00:24:32.580 on their way to obsolescence and that was a long time coming another example of this where i sort of

00:24:38.880 disagreed a little bit with some critics of the tech industry was he had a couple of weeks ago jack

00:24:44.020 dorsey the former ceo of twitter he said something along the lines of delete all ip law and that that

00:24:50.280 caused a massive backlash uh which understandably because delete all ip law is a very extreme statement

00:24:55.820 that i don't fully agree with however there's a case to be made and the reason why dorsey said that

00:25:01.300 is because the whole tech industry wants to weaken ip law so that they can feed their llms all the data

00:25:07.020 in existence feed their ai models all the data in existence and you know that there's a lot of uh

00:25:12.600 you know potential dystopia there if you actually delete all ip law but there's definitely a case to

00:25:17.580 be made and i think you can have some alignment with the tech writer on uh significantly reforming

00:25:23.340 ip law because who's the greatest beneficiary of ip law it's the big hollywood studios like disney right

00:25:29.440 there you know we talk about tech companies being monopoly monopolies but a company like disney is a

00:25:35.380 massive monopoly they just hoard all of this intellectual property and turn it into the most

00:25:39.640 garbage uh movies you can possibly imagine it would be great if ordinary people could use large

00:25:45.940 language models and diffusion engines to create their own versions of hollywood movies at a fraction

00:25:50.740 of the cost i think that is where the technology is going it's a major major threat to hollywood it's

00:25:55.940 a major major threat to um to big video game studios as well and that's another area where the

00:26:02.180 creative destruction of tech could actually be a a very good thing and also they at least bring

00:26:07.900 something to the movement i i hate to be like overly um you know ableist on this but they bring

00:26:14.940 political ability like elon musk helped us designed a way uh designed a way to win pennsylvania

00:26:20.680 with targeting skills that any other contributor simply cannot achieve and so i have a similar

00:26:27.780 view to vish i sort of view our relationship with the tech right uh like uh the church the church has

00:26:34.640 to grow so our politics has to be able to grow into those who are helping define the future through

00:26:39.860 technology while at the same time the newest arrivals in your church don't typically lead the sermon on

00:26:46.060 sunday you don't put them in the pulpit to drive the theology and the doctrine and the message and i think

00:26:52.620 you know keeping those lines delineated ought to be fine for them because like where else are they

00:26:58.040 going where else are the tech bros going alam are they gonna are they gonna go to the genderless

00:27:02.720 purple-haired woketopians uh and and and find common cause anymore i doubt it yeah i mean if you look at

00:27:08.620 the future of politics they really don't have many places to go because the democrats are getting more

00:27:13.480 extreme there aoc is a serious contender uh in the democratic presidential primary you look at europe

00:27:20.440 uh young people if they're not voting for the populist right which they are in large numbers

00:27:24.860 then they're voting for the populist left and they're going to be far worse to uh to tech companies

00:27:30.140 than any uh any right-wing party as someone who cares exclusively it's my job to care exclusively about

00:27:35.340 free speech that's what my non-profit cares about um what i want to see the tech right do is get much

00:27:42.060 more serious about fighting these foreign online censorship laws which they all say they're opposed to

00:27:47.580 but we've seen nothing like the uh the the level of commitment that zuckerberg used to give to the

00:27:52.760 biden campaign and the progressive causes against those laws in places like brazil the uk and the

00:27:58.860 european union the digital services act in particular i would say is the number one threat to online free

00:28:04.240 speech in the world today and it would be great if trade negotiations that the trump administration is

00:28:11.040 doing could you know perhaps turn the dsa into a bit of a bargaining chip it could be weakened in result in

00:28:16.940 um in uh in exchange for trade concessions but you also want to that that's not what happened during

00:28:25.000 usmca during usmca a lot of the special protections that big tech had in u.s law they were able to get

00:28:34.260 baked into that treaty where now even more enlightened lawmakers wouldn't be able to undo it so

00:28:39.380 do you even think those type of trade deals uh and how they approach tech are going directionally

00:28:45.820 correct and then we're going to move on but i'll give you the last word on it i remember that i think

00:28:49.880 it's much better this time around i think that you know you go out of the previous administration there

00:28:53.920 were so many people as we know in that administration who were not really on board with the free speech

00:28:59.280 agenda in fact people inside the administration um and in the deep state at the time tried to undermine

00:29:05.220 online free speech i think this administration is a complete sea change from that one the personnel

00:29:09.960 issue has been completely solved and uh i i expect that free speech probably will be a part of those

00:29:16.440 trade negotiations but the other thing the tech right needs to do that well the tech industry needs

00:29:20.640 to do is build long-term movements in favor of free speech in these other countries as they have

00:29:26.560 done with progressive causes in the past look we've all seen how unpredictable things can get

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00:30:29.360 so the big question i wanted to address was the utility of the 22nd amendment we have seen

00:30:36.160 a lot of republican lawmakers and commentators say trump should be able to run again and that is the

00:30:43.340 basis of their approach to whether or not a president should be able to be elected more than twice i want

00:30:48.740 to zoom out beyond just you know whether or not it is a reflection of whether or not you you believe

00:30:54.960 trump ought to be able to get another opportunity have we as a country outlived the utility of the

00:31:02.580 two-term limit on our presidents you look at our pacing challenge in china you look at our global

00:31:08.800 competitors and there is a durability of leadership you see at the areas in the world where capital is

00:31:14.460 rising and decisions are being made in the middle east a region that was run by a bunch of octogenarians

00:31:20.880 now is run by a bunch of guys in their 30s and 40s and for america to have that kind of durability

00:31:30.060 we may need more than eight years out of someone people are living longer than now it is a larger

00:31:35.180 federal bureaucracy that one has to manage that it takes a little longer to kind of gather control on

00:31:41.600 it to get your people in place it takes longer than ever to confirm your key appointees and thus eight

00:31:46.900 years is truncated and isn't it kind of a limitation on democracy all i've heard from the left lately

00:31:52.360 is that they want to vindicate democracy and the two-term limit limits the choice of voters so i think

00:31:58.640 it's something worthy of debate and if i were a lawmaker today i would seriously uh consider voting

00:32:04.760 to repeal the 22nd amendment what do you think cara oh so that's definitely a spicy question right

00:32:10.020 especially with the left and they're always talking about oh trump he's a dictator and authoritarian

00:32:15.320 so but like you're saying then that means the power of whether or not he continues past eight

00:32:19.820 years would be in the hands of the people so is that really a dictator that would be hard to make

00:32:24.060 that case right um yes and no i i i do go way to go out on a limb i all right all right vish come on i

00:32:36.580 know i know you want to give me a hot take i was gonna think about it the the 22nd amendment

00:32:41.080 needs to be repealed it's i don't think it was ever useful in the beginning i don't think it was

00:32:47.180 fair that fdr got to sit in the white house for four terms and then turns around and says nobody else

00:32:53.800 gets this opportunity okay so i i'm totally against it the founders never had it uh in the beginning

00:32:59.960 they they always they didn't put term limits on in the senate they didn't put term limits in the house

00:33:04.840 and they didn't put term limits on the white house and i think that obviously they wanted

00:33:09.220 a country where the people were able to decide how long exactly they wanted certain parties certain

00:33:17.460 people sitting in those seats for however long that they wanted and especially today when you consider

00:33:23.320 that our number one uh opponent geopolitically is china that's able to move in 100 year eclipse

00:33:30.500 if we and we can't get past eight that is a massive problem if we can't execute an agenda past

00:33:37.780 eight years with the leadership that we have it's going to be a massive issue in trying to not just

00:33:44.260 beat fight back against china but just to keep up and so yeah the 22nd amendment needs to go trump 2028

00:33:52.000 32 however long he wants to sit there he can sit there well the eight years then it necessitates having

00:33:57.400 a deep state right because like you're saying when you're going up against all these presidents and

00:34:01.960 all these military juniors all these you know groups that can govern for essentially however long that

00:34:05.980 they would like to in these other countries and like you're saying china and how they can you know

00:34:09.880 have xi jinping sit in office for for many many many years then again i think then the state department

00:34:15.020 the rest would say well that's why you need the deep state you need us you know right or it doesn't

00:34:18.640 really matter who's elected because who cares what the people say we'll just keep governing the way we want

00:34:22.600 to keep governing well in every system that has term limits in every legislative system it does empower

00:34:28.020 the bureaucracy and the question is is that preferable to empowering kind of long-term office

00:34:33.960 holders and in the legislative system i actually think the churn is better i support term limits for

00:34:40.020 lawmakers because i actually don't think there's anything that's special about lawmaking you're

00:34:44.360 representing people in a community regarding their interests and i think that being the executive is

00:34:50.100 different so alan will you rescue us from our radicalism on on this issue or are you going to

00:34:55.260 join in the repeal the 22nd amendment parade i think i think car actually hit the nail on the head

00:35:01.580 there with uh with this point about the deep state and as he was saying matt it does kind of empower the

00:35:06.840 bureaucrats um and it's interesting if you look at the history it's interesting that it's all started

00:35:13.100 with fdr who as vish was saying was able to serve four terms was the last president who was able to do that

00:35:19.120 fdr really created the modern bureaucracy as we know it it was started by woodrow wilson but it was

00:35:25.780 finalized by fdr he's the one that installed the giant bureaucracy that became what we now know as

00:35:32.360 the deep state and i'm actually less radical than other conservatives uh when it comes to the what the

00:35:38.360 administrative state of fdr and of woodrow wilson it wasn't really that bad until the 1960s it did some

00:35:44.740 impressive things it uh you know built the interstate highway system it built the minuteman

00:35:49.400 missiles it was very very impressive until it merged with the uh the civil rights bureaucracy in

00:35:55.260 the 1960s and then it all went haywire but uh clearly there's been very little it's been very very

00:36:02.940 difficult to reform it ever since fdr and possibly term limits have something to do with that would you

00:36:08.860 be afraid about obama coming back and being a viable candidate so no no no kara what do you think

00:36:14.620 so that would be one issue that i'd be worried about right because we have basically what started

00:36:20.460 out with the founder's intention of being a small republic morphed into mass democracy and that i think

00:36:26.820 ends up being the rub because you look at someone like pelosi she will i mean she'll just be voted and

00:36:31.760 voted until she dies or resigns or whatever um she's at least effective whatever people want to say

00:36:37.440 about nancy pelosi it's an incredibly effective operator if you want to live in a meritocracy

00:36:41.760 probably in san francisco you're not going to like throw a rock on the streets of san francisco and

00:36:46.520 hit something more competent at the acclamation and deployment of power than nancy pelosi well so then

00:36:52.580 so what i have a problem so i'm not someone who's pro-democracy right as you can see my my views

00:36:58.220 may be considered by some as a conservative but um i'm kind of like i said post-liberal that's that's my

00:37:04.100 mindset uh however so to me democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner

00:37:08.580 and they go well hey we voted so it makes it all fine so i would instead say if you want to do the

00:37:13.460 the 22nd amendment i would say to add some some meat to it i would say that we should kind of go back to

00:37:19.500 the founder's intentions or at least closer in alignment basically you need to have real stake

00:37:24.560 in america you know we're talking about 18 year olds and then down to 16 year olds and should felons

00:37:29.260 i think wasn't bernie sanders saying the the the surviving sign of brother should boston bomber

00:37:33.500 should still be able to vote things like that i say let's even dispense with that and say are do

00:37:38.000 you are you a homeowner are you do you own property are you married i think there's other issues i say

00:37:43.220 i have a how long do you go on that list before you get to the poll tax i mean are you for the poll

00:37:47.980 tax let's see what the limiting principle on kara's diminution of democracy no definitely not that

00:37:53.220 obviously however reading literacy test how about are you a taxpayer i think that's a good

00:37:58.860 she's already for that she already said she's for that would you do a literacy test maybe like

00:38:03.120 that was it the the eighth grade you would say like government will test and it's the same thing

00:38:08.760 that if you immigrate to this country you need to be able to pass you do a social studies test see

00:38:12.720 i'm i'm not putting down any hard and fast rules i'm saying that in a general direction i think that's

00:38:18.040 maybe where we should go yeah but don't you worry about the left weaponizing that where if somebody

00:38:21.880 doesn't answer the questions the left tried to put them up in prison and got him shot last year i think

00:38:26.960 we're beyond the well what if the left's back in power who knows what they'll do next it's like

00:38:30.480 they've done some crazy stuff at this point we won we need to keep governing it's time to build and to

00:38:35.840 create the future we want instead of saying well what if the left wins again it's like well again

00:38:39.320 like i said they almost threw trump in prison and if you look at right-wing governments around the

00:38:43.280 world their leaders are always constantly being thrown in prison and made unable to run because

00:38:47.560 we've thrown some of them in prison well

00:38:49.440 fascinating bish take us i know i know what the left would uh would say if they were thinking along

00:38:56.980 these lines they'd say everyone uh you can only vote if you have a master's degree you could only

00:39:01.340 vote if you're an expert if you have your pronouns in your email if you're willing to accept as a

00:39:06.000 fundamental premise of our social studies that that uh the white man uh you know should never have

00:39:11.680 uh gone to battle with native americans and should have uh should have surrendered upon arriving

00:39:16.800 obviously to their own slaughter bish take us home what do you want to talk about all right so

00:39:20.840 recently there's been a massive dust up and uproar over the guests that are appearing on joe rogan's

00:39:29.820 podcasts and namely the people who have taken issue with this are uh barry weiss of the free press and

00:39:38.160 uh most recently douglas murray who appeared on joe rogan's podcast and essentially went in joe on

00:39:46.700 joe rogan's platform in his face and said you need to have standards on who you're booking as guests

00:39:53.060 on this show it's not about and he basically says it's not the problem of the ideas that you're talking

00:39:58.940 about or the questions that you're talking about but who you're allowing on your massive platform

00:40:04.680 to talk about these things and they've been pointing out uh guests such as andrew isker and uh

00:40:12.720 daryl cooper and uh ian carroll and basically and then jordan peterson goes on joe rogan's podcast

00:40:19.800 and takes it a step further and says oh you know yeah james lindsey kind of calls these people woke

00:40:25.720 right but that's wrong actually they're just psychopaths right and so they're so and so you

00:40:32.020 shouldn't have these psychopaths on your show on your platform and what and what really needs to

00:40:38.960 happen is podcasts need to have standards and guardrails and i'm thinking like where have these

00:40:45.740 people been the last 10 to 15 years the whole point of the podcast of this decentralized

00:40:53.500 disintermediated disintermediated media is the point to not have any guardrails you can talk about

00:41:00.560 what you want how long you want to talk about it you could take the conversation anywhere you could

00:41:05.040 take the conversation off on a tangent if you want that's the whole point to allow conversations

00:41:10.000 to naturally evolve and joe rogan has built that model to great success great success and now you

00:41:18.360 have all of these people who can who america only knows about them because they appeared on joe rogan's

00:41:25.600 podcast telling joe rogan how to book his show with his guests and i think it is an outrage these people

00:41:33.440 will turn around look you in the face and say that there is no bigger free speech advocate

00:41:38.240 out there than me and then turn around to joe rogan and say you shouldn't have certain people

00:41:43.660 on your podcast i think it's outrageous and i think that it there's a real conversation to be had

00:41:49.400 about our podcasts and this disintermediated media ecosystem gonna have start having you know only

00:41:58.600 experts uh you can only talk about certain subjects with certain people uh this person is approved to

00:42:06.160 talk about this subject i think that's a dangerous game to play they're gonna take us back to exactly

00:42:12.020 what we broke away from and so i wanted to get your thoughts on this like i you've had podcasts you've

00:42:19.280 had you have shows would you ever consider like one of your guests telling you who you're allowed to

00:42:26.500 have on your show vish i think this is very substantial projection on your part to let

00:42:32.740 kara and alum and the rest of our viewers in on this vish had a bit of a difficult week at work this

00:42:38.620 week he's the booker on the matt gates show and he booked someone who was dressed like a dominatrix

00:42:45.740 and so now suspiciously he has raised this issue of how low the bottom should be on booking no it's not

00:42:57.080 about how low the bottom should be and i'm not comparing the guests you're talking about to these

00:43:02.880 other people who are clearly uh have massive followings have great uh perspective and i think

00:43:10.220 yeah i get that you know i i quickly and i i'm dying to hear alan's take on it because he's he's

00:43:15.360 an expert in the area i think when we start to do that like you say you lose the rawness and the edge

00:43:20.880 and the unique feature of this space and people listen to podcasts in a different way than they

00:43:27.200 consume television and the way you credential in this medium is by having something interesting to say

00:43:33.660 having a warrant for your claim having thought about something whereas uh on television it is the

00:43:39.460 recitation of sound bites and talking points and achievement of a viral moment and we're not

00:43:45.120 immune to that we try to create interesting moments for our viewers every single night on the matt gate

00:43:49.140 show but i think it is different than trying to go a layer beneath that and i think over cooking the

00:43:55.800 sauce uh with a critique of credentialism is misplaced okay well cara how about you like what do you

00:44:03.820 what do you think about this so once again let me think so i don't get in too much trouble with my

00:44:10.220 thoughts on this a when i watched that debate as you're referencing douglas murray versus dave smith

00:44:16.800 on joe rogan the pot shots that douglas murray was taking at dave but then also daryl cooper of the

00:44:23.740 martyr maid podcast what he kept basically getting back to was he had never listened to daryl cooper he has

00:44:29.320 no clue who daryl cooper is what his beliefs are what his thoughts are on anything and how well

00:44:33.740 researched he is either what he doesn't says he conflates them with with smear merchants and he

00:44:38.400 just puts them all in the same group and he just says yeah they're all bad people don't listen to any

00:44:41.520 of them well that ends up meaning it's censorship because douglas murray kept really harping on

00:44:45.800 credentialism and expertise but then he talks about the the war and uh the israel hamas war all the time

00:44:52.700 he talks about the ukraine where he talks about these wars that as far as i'm aware he's not a

00:44:57.180 historian historian i don't believe he's done scholarly work he's written books he's a journalist

00:45:01.920 uh but he is not also the card-carrying credentialed expert that he claims can only speak about it so in

00:45:09.700 fact what he's saying is you just can't talk about it but then when dave smith would push back and joe

00:45:14.660 rogan push back saying well what about you're talking about free speech he's like well of course you can

00:45:17.840 talk about it well i thought you said i can't i'm old and you can't because you're just a comedian

00:45:21.300 and it was this weird back and forth and basically he's saying is i have my certain pet issues

00:45:25.180 and i will come down really hard when you go against my pet issue and i will use it's like

00:45:30.580 how the left does it's they have their end goal in mind and they use arguments like this they switch

00:45:35.060 it around and that's why too many people on the right when we're trying to debate someone on the

00:45:38.380 left we're trying to attack their argument and it's like well it's not even their argument they

00:45:41.860 don't care about the argument they don't care about the logic or the reasoning what they care

00:45:45.140 about is what they want at the end of that and that's what you have to keep attacking so that was

00:45:50.120 my main problem with douglas murray as he admitted he has no clue anything about daryl cooper

00:45:53.800 doesn't even know his stance on anything just assumes he knows what he's talking about and

00:45:58.200 then says shut up don't talk about but of course you can talk about it but also don't talk about it

00:46:01.620 it was the threat the veiled implicit threat of don't you dare i will destroy you joe rogan however i can

00:46:08.240 and that's what i have a problem with yeah i mean it's i mean to say the least it sounds like you know

00:46:13.920 douglas murray and james james lindsey types they're using woke tactics to censor the very people that

00:46:20.820 they turn around and say hey we're free speech advocates for alum how about you what is your

00:46:25.420 take on this i know you you've been a veteran of the space yes first of all sorry about the lighting

00:46:30.840 i had excellent natural light in this room when i started but uh the sun's just gone down i know you

00:46:36.820 look so much more distinguished and credentialed now now that you're the silhouette of alan bakari has

00:46:42.460 joined us um so yeah to vicious point i think so so i i write a lot about online censorship but

00:46:50.440 that's only one side of the censorship coin over the last few decades the other side i think is this

00:46:55.580 culture of denunciations and de-platforming where you know you're not allowed to have so and so on

00:47:02.560 your show you're not allowed to platform this person um i want you to condemn this person before we

00:47:09.320 could even talk about their ideas that sort of culture right and i think the reason why douglas

00:47:15.940 murray's comments and jordan peterson's comments brought about such a backlash is because it seems

00:47:20.660 to be pointing back in that direction you know we've just gotten past this era in history where

00:47:27.020 you know you you had people being asked to ritually denounce people essentially for their political

00:47:32.540 views and now we're trying to get back to this this idea where you have to have a certain credential

00:47:38.600 you have to have the right opinions to be able to go on uh on these podcasts and as kara said i mean

00:47:44.600 the the whole expert thing yes there is a genuine sense that uh there's a sort of crisis of competency

00:47:51.420 right now there's a sense where you know and anyone can talk about any topic without it you know any sort

00:47:56.820 of uh any sort of background in the area sure but at the same time if you insist on expert credentials

00:48:02.560 for every for everything then uh douglas murray couldn't talk about 70 70 to 80 percent of the

00:48:08.820 things he talks about because if you only talk about the one thing you're credentialed in that's

00:48:13.660 not going to be very much matt i am glad i am at least credentialed in one thing and uh like i said you

00:48:22.260 know i think that i think that the value of somebody's contribution to the conversation has to matter

00:48:27.440 somewhere and if the podcasting space if the online space for the streaming space uh aren't

00:48:32.840 accommodating that then i don't know what will and i'm grateful it does i'm grateful that alum fights

00:48:38.760 for it every day as the managing director of the foundation for freedom online i'm so excited that we

00:48:44.040 get to be here on this amazing pirate ship we call one america news uh with kara mckinney who hosts

00:48:49.440 and with vish who produces and i do the matt gates show on weeknights nine o'clock eastern six pacific

00:48:55.260 please make sure you get our live app at oann.com and give us five stars leave us a review let us

00:49:02.160 know who you'd like us to talk to and get great ideas from in the future thanks for joining us on

00:49:06.260 anchorman want to see more great videos like this click on the link below to subscribe to oann live

00:49:11.960 and watch dan ball's real america and the matt gates show on dish channel 212 tune in subscribe and watch

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The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - April 24, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Birth Rate Crisis & Tech Right vs MAGA

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