The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Episode 9

00:00:00.000 now it's time for the anchorman podcast with matt gates and dan ball

00:00:30.000 welcome back to the anchorman show i'm matt gates and we want to thank you for your incredible

00:00:35.080 listenership and viewership hundreds of thousands of audio listens on our platforms

00:00:40.140 millions of views on social media on one america news and throughout and you want so much anchorman

00:00:47.340 we're doubling it up for you so the bad news is the fact that you're hearing from me now on this set

00:00:52.760 does not mean it's friday you did not skip forward a day it is indeed thursday but i'm going to be

00:00:58.960 hosting a version of this show that you'll see on thursdays and then tomorrow if you have not had

00:01:04.580 enough anchorman my buddy dan ball will be here with some of our friends and the reason we're doing

00:01:08.640 this is because the number one feedback we got was people wanted more than one episode a week and we

00:01:14.120 wanted the chance to platform some more of the terrific talent that we have here at one american

00:01:18.540 news and a lot of our friends that chat about the news of the day with us and i got a few of my

00:01:23.000 buddies here with me tonight the producer booker og guru of the matt gates show vish burrah he was the

00:01:32.640 founding producer of bannon's war room worked on my congressional staff worked on george santos's

00:01:39.020 congressional staff and good to have you here at oan and also our outstanding investigative reporter

00:01:44.740 pearson sharp the host of the sharp report that you catch on one america news he's been putting out

00:01:49.660 some incredible original reporting and tonight what we're going to do is a little different we're

00:01:55.300 going to take a trip around the world at the end of this episode you're going to have a little bit of

00:02:00.340 context and perspective and analysis from the major flashpoint areas and as pearson and i were talking

00:02:07.320 about this earlier today whether you look at the global south asia the middle east what's happening

00:02:14.800 in north america reinvigorated is there a common theme to what we see going on throughout the world

00:02:21.060 and we'll tease that out and then guess what when you've got the next discussion about global affairs

00:02:26.280 you're going to be the smartest person there so i kind of wanted to start uh with our pacing challenge

00:02:31.340 which is in asia it's china pearson you've spent time living in china you uh you shared on an earlier

00:02:39.240 episode of anchorman that people should check out some of your experiences being approached by the

00:02:45.440 chinese embassy to talk about your reporting and you gave perspective culturally on the place but as you

00:02:54.060 look geopolitically their goals their ambitions uh what we've seen in deep seek seems to be a complete

00:03:02.520 game changer regarding their investment model you know it used to be that china uh never really had 0.99

00:03:09.780 to innovate because they just stole stuff and if we weren't enforcing their stealing of stuff they

00:03:14.840 didn't have to have an innovation economy now you are seeing innovations like the number one social

00:03:20.700 media app in the world tiktok or like possibly the strongest ai engine developed deep seek coming out

00:03:26.700 of china how do you analyze that as someone who's who's been there and seen it up close

00:03:32.000 it is interesting to watch it happen uh obviously these technologies are piggybacking off of what

00:03:39.200 we've done before um their iterations of what came before and arguably they've been more successful at

00:03:46.100 least tiktok um deep seek i'm not sure it seems vulnerable and compromised i mean we obviously know

00:03:54.080 it's a tool uh of the ccp so how that could exactly compete with grok or chat gpt on an even playing

00:04:04.160 field you're not going to get the same answers you're not going to get the same information

00:04:07.600 as far as industrial uses or things like that i don't know i don't know the capabilities

00:04:11.960 but are we really stopping them from getting our technology i mean how many eric swalwells are out

00:04:20.560 there that we don't know about how many chinese infiltrating our universities how many people are

00:04:25.340 just happy to take a buck and say yeah this is the project i've been working on for the dod you can

00:04:29.780 peek at it i don't know i don't can we contain those leaks i i'm very pessimistic about that so what do

00:04:36.160 you do in a world in which you can't if you assume that there's so much openness we just saw these we

00:04:41.240 saw cash patel's fbi round up these folks who are in the army and doing precisely what you were

00:04:46.060 saying sharing information with the chinese do we have to build a resilience that isn't dependent upon

00:04:53.380 stopping that but rather containing it in some way i think we can contain it at least much better than

00:05:01.940 we have and i think your points that you brought up are very salient the issue is how extreme do we

00:05:09.460 want to go and my concern here as with almost everything in our government is that

00:05:16.000 the politicians and i'm sure you're aware of this are held hostage by public opinion

00:05:22.880 and a lot of times you'll want to do something more extreme than you're allowed to do but also i think we

00:05:28.280 have a lot of weak leaders right now that are afraid to take the steps that they need to like

00:05:32.120 mitch mcconnell's you know people like that mitch mcconnell who in every government funding bill

00:05:36.780 was lobbying for more of the visas that rich chinese could buy to get into the united states

00:05:43.200 that was a you always knew mitch's apparatus was behind getting getting more of uh of that type of

00:05:51.040 influence into the united states but but but i before i get vicious take on this having lived in china

00:05:58.380 do you have a perspective on like the ambitions of the chinese people and do you think those match

00:06:04.960 what you report on and see and interact with with their government uh yes and i want to backtrack

00:06:11.940 one second i think that we need to be to contain this i think we need to be a lot more extreme

00:06:16.020 than we have been and i think we need to successfully take care of it do things that

00:06:20.180 are not popular in public opinion but you know i'm i'm kind of a guillotine you know solution 0.69

00:06:26.260 kind of guy we got to go extreme we got to behead the monster and who cares what the public

00:06:31.340 thinks about it if you really want a solution that's what it takes well i know you're speaking 0.99

00:06:35.360 metaphorically because you're not talking about actually beheading people but right no it's it's

00:06:39.320 a legal uh and i think someone i think i read someone in the trump administration was actually

00:06:44.480 talking about um not allowing chinese nationals into our institutions into our universities and stuff

00:06:51.180 into these top secret programs um which is a good start but anyway to answer your second

00:06:56.840 question when i lived there i was astonished at the lack of

00:07:05.960 personal initiative at creativity at just innovation everybody there was uh and this is cultural this is

00:07:17.180 driven by the communist party that's what communism does it destroys creativity um no one there can can

00:07:24.180 have an independent thought everything is group think it's a hive mind they they can't come up with

00:07:28.540 anything on their own i was a teacher at a university and i would give them class projects

00:07:33.420 and they just they didn't know where to begin they didn't know what to do they couldn't they

00:07:37.980 couldn't handle it they would have to eventually like copy off of each other or cheat or um even down

00:07:44.920 to like something super simple they cheat at everything and everything that they were involved in they

00:07:50.860 cheated and i went outside one time and i had them play you know we're just goofing around i taught

00:07:56.940 them red rover they were cheating at red rover i don't even know how you cheated red rover i don't

00:08:02.260 i mean yeah they would just lie about who who ran first and who got through and it's like

00:08:07.340 dude like what are you doing this is ridiculous but that's like an example of the level of mindset

00:08:14.200 that they have and i think that scales upwards and if they can't steal from us they're going to be in 0.69

00:08:19.960 big trouble so you're not buying china as a future innovation center you think it goes back to a

00:08:27.580 steal what they can manufacture cheap dump and destroy industry until they can convert to capitalism cap 0.78

00:08:33.940 america is the only country in the world it's really innovating i don't know i don't know the world i don't

00:08:39.140 know communism crushes that i think that china is embracing a blend of that and and i i don't count

00:08:45.080 them out that much on innovation vish as you look at asia and we're talking about innovation and

00:08:49.500 manufacturing like what i remember from being a kid is how much stuff in my house used to say made in

00:08:55.740 japan on it we've seen japan disappear as a power center in in asia they're largely a ceremonial ally

00:09:04.840 and uh their industrial base has been vanquished their population is aging uh what what do we

00:09:12.640 do in an asia where japan isn't a hegemonic balance against china as we've seen previously

00:09:21.180 well i think first of all we need to we need to go back to strengthening our relationship with japan

00:09:28.340 on these terms whether it's innovation or um you know manufacturing like you said i want one of my

00:09:34.880 favorite uh scenes from back to the future was when they go i i think and see uh something was made in

00:09:41.880 japan though the professor sees it and he said oh it doesn't i don't think that this would work and

00:09:47.740 he says something to the effect of of course well of course it's made in japan they make all the best

00:09:52.360 stuff or more marty mcfly says says that so you know that was the reputation that it had you know

00:09:58.300 especially even culturally right for for 40 50 years in america and that fell off but i don't think

00:10:05.120 that japan is not still do i think they're still innovating but for their own people and i don't

00:10:12.740 and i think that it's it's now more expensive or not like cost efficient for them to work with the

00:10:19.120 world anymore uh in terms of exporting that stuff because there's so many cheap chinese products on the

00:10:25.820 market that are comparable there's so many cheap you know made in india made in bangladesh products

00:10:30.600 that are comparable so i think that that's one of the one of the things that has decreased um you

00:10:37.320 know japan's sort of partnership in this manufacturing innovation space with the rest of the world is the

00:10:43.980 rest of the world's increase in doing business with china and uh india and these places and so i think

00:10:51.120 that there's certainly we i would like to see some kind of innovation sharing with well not not

00:10:58.520 necessarily sharing but like coming together collaborate and collaboration uh with japan and

00:11:03.640 um to to kind of add to the top of that i don't mind doing that with japan because japan i feel is

00:11:10.460 is a very honor built society their whole sort of ethos samurai society yeah it's it's built on that

00:11:16.460 ethos what you're when you were talking i was thinking though the difference between japan and china

00:11:20.860 though is that other countries america germany other countries are going into china and having

00:11:25.900 things that they design built there china is not designing these things that's right with japan 0.85

00:11:32.280 japan was designing them they were japanese in-house built i don't i'm not sure i understand

00:11:38.820 how that changed or like what happened why that fell off but i think that's an important distinction

00:11:42.560 i had a former staff member who said that in japan like social media so uh evaporated the cultural

00:11:50.280 features of society that we turned a nation of samurai warriors into a society of hello kitty freaks 0.73

00:11:57.520 well i kind of believe that i i kind of believe that um and you know i think that obviously they have

00:12:04.660 really crushing sort of parameters on their their economy and their their their you know budgets

00:12:11.500 and their deficits they've basically have been running at deficits for like they've become a welfare state

00:12:17.260 yeah left for decades now and so i think that also hampers what they're able to do the same way

00:12:22.460 uh we're seeing family formation and stuff in america be be sort of pushed down upon with downward

00:12:29.960 pressures on deficits and all this stuff right and so that i think that there is a correlation to that

00:12:36.160 ultimately that the check on china becomes india no i don't think so i i think that there has to be a

00:12:43.520 a i think it has to be everything right like so my my understanding uh edward look back is a great

00:12:49.960 like geopolitical um a strategist type who i've listened to on this and one thing he points out

00:12:57.040 is that china the thing that it has uh you know that has maintained throughout its thousands of years

00:13:04.280 of history of civilization is that it's really really bad with its neighbors right it just doesn't know

00:13:10.220 how to get along with its neighbors and so if you encircle china by having good relationships with

00:13:16.300 everybody around it that can possibly keep china they're not good at conquering other people right 1.00

00:13:21.480 they're not but that's not how they that was obama's argument that's why obama tried to execute

00:13:26.700 these free trade agreements throughout south asia uh with vietnam with cambodia with laos and it was

00:13:36.740 the thing that united republicans and democrats everyone from paul ryan and nancy pelosi right

00:13:42.100 and was against that just what you just described right but who blew blew the big hole on that who

00:13:46.660 was the the head of the pivot to asia at that time it was the bidens right and so the bidens come in

00:13:52.940 and say i know obama's saying all this stuff about that but we got you don't worry we're going to make

00:13:58.320 sure that this relationship flourishes and that will be the valet to this aspect well let me throw out

00:14:03.340 a hypothesis then and you guys can attack it or agree with it what vish described happening to

00:14:09.240 japan uh getting resorbed into the chinese economy in a lot of ways and having to react to the changing

00:14:16.480 chinese economy has essentially happened to every country in the region there's no powerful nationalistic

00:14:23.080 force there's no real um kinetic deterrent to china in the south china sea or in the straits of taiwan

00:14:32.480 that that china really is the the driving force and they've they've already taken asia they've 0.94

00:14:40.460 already taken asia and now they're on to africa and beyond agree or disagree with the premise

00:14:45.660 pearson yeah i would agree with that vish i agree with that but i don't think that that's as much

00:14:49.920 bad news as we think i don't think it's the end of the story yeah i don't right i go ahead you

00:14:54.240 want to know yeah so i think i think that yes this is happening china has you know essentially kind of

00:15:01.800 conquered asia and moved on to africa but i think that there is more awareness now about the the china

00:15:11.780 problem let's say than there was just you know eight to ten years ago especially post covid i mean

00:15:19.140 when you consider the i think we still don't understand the ramifications of covid and how

00:15:26.660 it's pretty much traumatized the entire world and when people consider how this thing started

00:15:31.980 the answer goes back to china and i think that people still feel like china hasn't really paid

00:15:37.540 its price for what it's done through covid and so i think that that is always going to have to

00:15:43.120 when you're the banker for 37 of the world's economy make them well that that's why the united

00:15:48.660 states is so important that's why donald trump coming in is so important with you know joe biden

00:15:53.320 sitting there in in the in the waking moments of covid at that time and his bumbling administration

00:15:59.420 and the democrats there i think that they certainly didn't do enough we know the cozy relationship

00:16:04.860 with biden's and china and that's why nothing was done when it should have been that that was the

00:16:10.100 prime time to do it but now i think for a long-term solution and understanding and mindset and ethos

00:16:17.880 uh with donald trump coming in the new uh cabinet coming in as well marco rubio

00:16:24.200 is is not really someone who's friendly with with uh china in that no he's a china hawk i mean 0.97

00:16:31.540 he came out of the intel community right how do you think it's not the end of the story kirsten

00:16:34.820 well it's not necessarily a good thing um i think china views like you said they have a very long 1.00

00:16:42.440 history and i think they view this in terms of the long game and globally

00:16:48.440 elements of the deep state are all over the place and we have radical communist underpinnings in a lot

00:16:59.240 of western governments a lot of the traditional opposition to china that would have kept china in

00:17:03.620 check and i think even though trump is in office right now china probably views this as a temporary

00:17:10.880 setback and that they can you know ride out the next couple of years and trump will be gone and

00:17:16.860 they'll have someone else they can control another biden yeah and they made tremendous gains um during

00:17:23.200 the biden time not only in our country like you mentioned with the compromise of our politicians

00:17:29.120 the compromise of our industries the compromise of our ports the compromise of our defense

00:17:33.300 supply chain the compromise of our medical supply chain we're the world's pantry all of these things

00:17:38.180 well that's why we got to be medically resilient uh rfk jr has called it out big pharma and the

00:17:44.960 government work together to suppress treatments like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine why because if

00:17:49.540 they admitted those treatments worked they couldn't rush through the covet vaccine let's be honest big

00:17:54.520 pharma wasn't about to let effective alternatives cut into their billion dollar payday they didn't just

00:18:00.660 push the vaccine they made sure you had no other options big pharma wanted to be in charge of your

00:18:05.840 health not you they wanted total control and they used the government to get it that's why i trust all

00:18:11.520 family pharmacy they provide ivermectin hydroxychloroquine antibiotics vitamins so much more the very

00:18:17.200 medications that others try to keep out of your hands you can get them without red tape without corporate

00:18:22.200 pressure just real options and it's not just emergency meds you can even get your everyday

00:18:27.140 maintenance medications as well just go to allfamilypharmacy.com forward slash matt use code matt10

00:18:33.340 for 10 off don't wait be prepared take back control of your health care so one of the places where

00:18:39.940 where i think geopolitical strategies playing out in real politic is in africa and what happens in

00:18:48.120 africa is china shows up with suitcases full of american cash u.s dollars and they bribe people and 0.67

00:18:56.440 russia shows up with a whole lot of muscle that can keep you in power in exchange for access to mining

00:19:02.760 and the united states shows up training your military that's our big thing we can train your military

00:19:08.940 we can get your military more capable well if you look at a lot of the places in africa that have

00:19:14.980 endured military coups we have trained the coup leaders in guyana in burkina faso in mali in niger

00:19:23.340 it is in in in the ivory coast you get the military junta and if you you don't have to pull the thread on

00:19:32.040 the sweater very far before there's u.s involvement in training those very people now i've pointed that

00:19:36.900 that out extensively and some people say well that's the way it should be matt that's the way

00:19:41.840 it should be because we're not if we can't show up and bribe people and we're not going to show up

00:19:46.100 and like ethnically cleanse the minorities in your country that you don't like then then maybe

00:19:52.860 the coup thing is our game i don't know why why can't we show up and bribe people well should we is

00:19:58.760 that your is is your vision for 2025 american colonialism that we show up with our own cash and just try to

00:20:05.100 bribe the chinese well i think

00:20:07.800 i'm a very different minds on this issue one i in my heart i'm an isolationist i don't think we should

00:20:17.360 be involved anywhere at all but in the real world i mean we obviously are there's these problems that

00:20:23.460 we need to fix and we created a lot of them so in africa i think we have an opportunity to fight

00:20:30.720 back against china whatever they can do we can do 100 times better and i think rather than setting 1.00

00:20:37.660 up these military juntas and stuff and training these people i think we could come in with a lot

00:20:43.080 of cash and a lot of incentives and instead of taking the chinese approach where you offer the

00:20:52.760 country something and then once they accept it they're in your debt forever because they can never

00:20:56.060 pay it back and you basically enslave them instead of a belt and road initiative we'll have a liberty

00:21:01.760 initiative and we come in there and we help them get established economically we do what america does

00:21:06.160 on paper in the movies we be the good guys and we help them get ahead and i think that could that could do

00:21:12.100 a lot for us going back to our there's a great opportunity to going back to our earlier conversation

00:21:17.740 today the democratic republic of congo is really in bed with china right now and they're helping them 1.00

00:21:24.320 out with a lot of the rare earth minerals like we talked about the u.s needs those the same time

00:21:30.620 congo right now is asking the u.s for help with this military situation they have with these rebels

00:21:37.820 they're asking for help that is a perfect opportunity to go in there get some rare earth minerals get rid

00:21:44.240 of the rebels and then what we're tied down and the isolationist on the couch just told me that we

00:21:49.800 need to get tied down in some right congolese civil war i would love to pull back out of everywhere i'd 1.00

00:21:55.180 love to get u.s troops i am an i am an isolationist and let's go but i'm a realist too and we're already

00:22:01.420 over in these conflicts china is doing things that directly affect us they are they are taking actions

00:22:07.520 against our national interests and so we can be isolationist and pretend that's not happening or we

00:22:13.280 can fight back in what i think is the most realistic way you know in my other heart of hearts i say bomb

00:22:17.840 everybody and let god figure it out but you know that also is a metaphor for anyone who's a youtube

00:22:24.280 monitor listening to that discussion so so vish uh is pearson right should we just bribe people and by

00:22:30.780 the way one could make the argument that president trump is ready to play bare knuckles tactics here

00:22:37.240 president trump has functionally ceased enforcement of the foreign corrupt practices act and i think that's

00:22:45.020 because he saw the ways in which chinese companies were beating out american companies because under

00:22:50.820 you know some uh really intense application of that law you go buy you go upgrade someone's flight to

00:22:58.860 turkey like eric adams and if it's a foreign leader you could find yourself on the other end of a really

00:23:05.060 aggressive department of justice whereas trump says maybe a little more wheeling and dealing what do you

00:23:09.700 think yeah absolutely i think that that for for as long as i've at least paid attention to american

00:23:17.780 foreign policy like we don't do this kind of like global statecraft very well right like just just think

00:23:25.280 like we instead who does it the best who's the the best in history has been the british empire

00:23:30.900 right and in in how they handle these these local populations and and play different ethnic conflicts

00:23:38.840 between each other coming from an indian well we know it the best but well i mean but they but

00:23:45.860 that's because they were studied they understood the different conflicts between tribes and ethnicities

00:23:52.080 and played them off each other to get what they wanted for their empire at the end of the day they

00:23:58.020 understood the objective and did whatever it took for their people we don't do enough of that instead

00:24:04.040 we're we're going there and saying we're just going to america everything that you know we come

00:24:08.960 into contact with let's really know what that but we don't even know what that means and we're not

00:24:12.800 even giving them what they want and so you know that's the oh like really like who is going to be

00:24:18.900 moved no i don't think uganda does how much how much are like you know just how much are we willing

00:24:26.060 to spend on building uh schools for girls in afghanistan and then the the first thing that

00:24:31.980 these people did as soon as we pulled out they went and destroyed those schools right and so like

00:24:36.420 that that's not what they want hold on right there because i think that is a frailty in what what

00:24:41.180 pearson laid out which is like we can give these people a path to um western markets to more economic

00:24:48.300 growth and what we're seeing is one they don't necessarily believe us because so much of our foreign 0.99

00:24:55.740 policy has pivoted to exporting wokeness and then subsequently to to your point it's not really

00:25:02.880 what they want when the other person has a suitcase full of cash because you know what you can think

00:25:06.880 you have that long-term right to that african cobalt mine but the next time if it's china's people 1.00

00:25:14.120 who train the coup leaders instead of the americans and they're the ones in charge they're going to

00:25:18.920 throw you out anyway which by the way is pretty close to what happened in niger where the russians

00:25:24.120 were backing a particular group that took over they threw out the americans we had a you know

00:25:32.340 nine-figure military base that we built in niger and then we got thrown out by the scruff of our neck

00:25:38.580 because other people played the game tougher that's right and so so you know we and and another thing is

00:25:45.900 like oh you know well there's all these radicals you know in these countries that we need to you know

00:25:51.340 uh get get control of or show them a better way and so you know what we're going to do we're going

00:25:57.060 to take these people and uh we're going to transition them into desk jobs and and nine to

00:26:02.060 fives at mcdonald's right and then and there and what guess what they're going to work at a job right

00:26:07.560 that right and they and they think that this is going to solve the the the fire of what those people

00:26:12.740 wanted in the first place no it's just a complete misunderstanding of the region of the people of

00:26:19.320 everything and we consider who are we even sending in to do this this sort of statecraft on our behalf

00:26:26.340 and it's like the alissa slotkins of the world right and like these these these sort of cia soccer moms 1.00

00:26:32.300 as i call them and and even the lady who got the cia station blown up in afghanistan right she didn't 1.00

00:26:39.900 know who she was talking to she was she ended up being played by an al-qaeda operative right and who

00:26:45.320 ended up using her to blow out the rest of his enemies and then and then and then blew them out

00:26:51.220 the two so like that we're just not understand we're not doing the homework in terms of can we

00:26:56.620 though pearson do you think we can do you think that if we were sufficiently capable that we could

00:27:02.920 play this type of global chess because while i'm not an isolationist i try to be a realist and the

00:27:08.960 notion that we're going to be able to do that at this stage of the game in africa just seems very

00:27:14.140 low to me what was the question there no the the question is do you think that we can get enough

00:27:22.940 statecraft to be able to successfully move the pieces into place so that around the world we have

00:27:29.340 friendly governments to work with i think vish is right i don't think we know how to do that

00:27:33.800 i think if you had the right people in there i think trump has an instinct for that but he's

00:27:41.900 surrounded by too many people who have other ambitions we have this well hold on let's let's

00:27:47.360 talk about some of those people uh we we've had as one of the big news stories this week this signal

00:27:52.720 chat and we chat about it on our show um and it is all the talk of washington it's to me it seems

00:28:00.480 mostly much ado about nothing this was a successful operation people were communicating about it but

00:28:06.880 uh what's your take is this a is this story overblown or do you think uh you know appropriate

00:28:12.400 attention and concern given well i think in this situation it doesn't seem like there was any negative

00:28:18.100 consequences that came out of it that we know of but it definitely exposes a vulnerability

00:28:24.020 and i think it's a valid concern that people are just chit-chatting on non-government non

00:28:30.560 you know officially secured channels about this kind of thing i mean isn't that sort of what hillary 1.00

00:28:35.060 was in trouble for and she was talking using these emails well but she wasn't using an encrypted

00:28:39.300 app that was provided to the cia which is what signal is she was just using her own email server

00:28:44.680 to avoid it's it's still concerning and and and what we discussed earlier i what waltz did is

00:28:51.660 especially concerning why does what what waltz did especially concern you well he doesn't seem to be

00:28:58.420 the most trumpian of people and i think he probably has agendas that run counter to maybe what some of

00:29:06.640 the things that trump wants to do and the fact that he brought this guy on he probably had his name

00:29:13.000 changed in there for a reason and i don't think it was a good reason so i don't trust him and i think

00:29:17.660 that he should be fired for this vish burrah the the story we get from waltz and and i don't have

00:29:23.260 a reason not to believe him though pearson you know makes a logical point uh is that he had

00:29:30.960 jeffrey goldberg's name in his phone under a different description not jeffrey goldberg but

00:29:39.300 something else have you ever in your phone ever had someone else's number uh than the name that

00:29:47.220 was reflected has that ever been something you've done yes but it's for completely different reasons

00:29:51.760 but but well is it because what were the reasons you ever had someone's number in your phone but

00:29:56.660 what were the reasons well usually because i didn't want somebody in my closer nexus finding out who i'm

00:30:04.380 talking to is closer if if they were if it were to ever get out you know that i'm texting with

00:30:10.800 x person or i'm speaking with x person i didn't want people to know especially people very close to me

00:30:17.400 if they ever got their hands on my phone or my messages that i was speaking to that person and so

00:30:22.700 that's why i would uh change their name right it would come up as uh you know the local pizza joint

00:30:29.280 or something like that or just something very vague texting a lot with so so hold on but i want to test

00:30:35.220 the point pearson just a minute do you think that was what was happening with michael waltz

00:30:38.400 i think it's possible uh i think it's i think it's certainly possible that he that he didn't want i

00:30:44.980 mean first of all i mean if you really think about that as a republican knowing that you're uh you know or

00:30:53.320 or in being in comms with a with the editor-in-chief of the atlantic right uh in any way whether that's

00:31:00.620 under a fake name or a real name right that's very questionable to just to start right advocate i

00:31:07.120 assume that's fairly common these people are in touch with a lot of the media i mean is that not

00:31:11.460 correct i mean i think that that it it it could be it's common but i with the editor-in-chief of the

00:31:18.060 atlantic that is that's really especially for mike waltz just became the national security advisor i

00:31:24.340 think before before that he was i think a member of the uh foreign uh foreign affairs committee on

00:31:31.860 the house or something like that so i i i mean maybe he they may maintain contact but even still

00:31:39.140 that's a that's a then that raises questions like well what were you talking about with him before

00:31:43.400 when you were on the house uh you know foreign affairs committee or the intel committee whatever it

00:31:47.780 was especially the atlantic the atlantic is the premier outlet to discuss all atlanticist issues

00:31:54.140 right and the atlanticist relationship is actually one of the big sort of flashpoints of this entire

00:32:01.180 administration especially in the last couple months with the munich security conference speech

00:32:05.440 by jd vance with you know what we're talking about with nato and and having and and putting

00:32:10.560 pressure on these european countries to uh fund their own defense yeah what were you talking about

00:32:16.180 with him michael waltz if not if it wasn't now then what were you talking about with him then

00:32:20.180 right that's i think that's a good question to ask you know why did you need to be in in comms with 0.93

00:32:25.860 jeffrey goldbrand the suckers and losers guy is the one you were talking to right did you excoriate 0.79

00:32:32.640 him for that i if you if you said yes i had his number just to tell him how nasty that piece was 0.97

00:32:38.580 then you know what i might take it but that's but that's not what he's saying either

00:32:42.580 what he's saying i don't know i don't know how he got in there oh he was inadvertently in a different

00:32:48.240 name goldberg then says actually i did meet him once right and so somebody's like somebody's got

00:32:54.960 to say you know somebody's not not giving the whole truth here in my opinion i i give waltz the benefit

00:33:00.060 of the doubt but i just know how washington works and there's only so many times you get that benefit

00:33:04.440 of the doubt before people start to be uh pretty critical uh let's let's continue to kind of roll

00:33:09.580 into the middle east right now and uh the ceasefire that israel and hamas had has now totally fallen

00:33:17.980 apart bb has successfully bb seems to me in israel like he's constantly curating this balance with the

00:33:26.260 hardliners on the right and then the populace who seem to really favor the ceasefire dynamics to create

00:33:33.580 the hostage exchanges and i believe this about the middle east there is probably not going to be

00:33:40.840 any real sustainable peace in that region until you have some resolution to what is going on with

00:33:49.580 you know judea and samaria with what's happening in gaza with lebanon and um and northern israel that

00:33:56.640 that that if that remains a flashpoint you're gonna have cascading problems and you've got a place

00:34:02.820 that iran can always go poke you've got places where turkey can go poke you've got a justification

00:34:09.040 for israel to wipe out iranian proxies in southern syria and uh and potentially even need to engage in

00:34:17.860 further strikes deeper into iran uh and here's my call these gulf monarchies like saudi arabia if they 0.63

00:34:25.260 want to be hegemons step up to the plate be a hegemon right like step up to the plate and say 0.98

00:34:31.000 we're saudi arabia we're here to fix this problem in gaza get hamas out of the way get the violence

00:34:37.740 out and to create some economic stability uh qatar is a country that wants to level up diplomatically

00:34:44.960 we have seen them do that alongside saudi arabia i think qatar can be a greater force for good in gaza

00:34:51.740 in terms of policing the worst elements that create create threats how do you think we fix the middle east

00:34:59.000 pearson well to your point just a second ago why would saudi arabia or qatar step up i mean they're

00:35:06.420 they're having their cake and eating it too they want to be big boys in in global diplomacy you see

00:35:12.200 that with the way saudi is hosting russia ukraine like you want to host russia ukraine how about you

00:35:17.020 help in your own neighborhood resolve the flashpoints that could that could lead us to global war i don't

00:35:24.660 think they see that as an issue they're making tons of money we're paying them tons of money they're

00:35:27.920 getting it all over the world they have these uh islamic caliphate centers all over europe they're 0.94

00:35:32.800 spreading their influence without having to fight a war they're like i said they're getting their cake

00:35:37.180 and eating it too yeah but shouldn't shouldn't western uh financial systems demand more of them as a 0.98

00:35:45.640 driver of peace in their own region before just completely opening up well that's a different

00:35:51.520 question absolutely i completely agree with that i don't think we should be doing business with

00:35:55.780 them like period well the problem with that is you know you stop doing business with them they go

00:36:01.880 double down on bricks the saudi sell all their oil outside the dollar now the dollar starts to crash at

00:36:06.960 a time when congress won't cut spending and you've got massive entitlement programs that are going to

00:36:11.360 bankrupt the country that you know that that that is a real consequence of us actually muscling up on

00:36:18.060 saudi arabia which is probably why we never have in republican or democratic we have we have some of the

00:36:23.320 biggest oil reserves in the entire world we have more oil than the middle east does we could be the

00:36:28.120 world's exporter it's not about whether or not we need their oil today it might have been that way in

00:36:33.860 the 80s 90s what it's about now is do they sell their oil in dollars or do they sell it in in some other

00:36:41.360 system fish yeah well on our system is so tied to the oil for dollar system right now that that that is

00:36:49.120 the primary concern is if saudi arabia continues to do that obviously we know but do you think they

00:36:56.000 should have to do more regionally a hundred percent they have to do more but and pearson says they don't

00:37:00.620 care they don't have to care they don't well here's the thing right so it's either you're you're hoping

00:37:06.640 that the u.s remains the hegemon for as long as possible you know globally where we'll come in and 0.61

00:37:13.500 we'll look out for you to a certain extent because you're selling your oil in dollars for us and we'll

00:37:19.220 do our best to police this region but that's coming up to attention point two obviously with you know the

00:37:25.400 isolationists on the rise trump and his you know his america first you know out of the forever wars

00:37:31.400 uh kind of situation and policy what let's say let's say we do end up in like a multi-polar world

00:37:37.260 right where different countries are going to be responsible for different parts of the world who's going to be the

00:37:43.280 the the the pole in the middle east is it you know iran if it now by the way if it's iran how do you think

00:37:50.720 the saudis are going to react to that right and then we're going to turn around to them and say well they

00:37:55.940 stepped up to the plate and they're willing to do big boy diplomacy whether we like it or not they're willing

00:38:00.980 to police their region right and so saudi arabia if you're not stepping up to the plate we're just going to

00:38:06.340 give this part of the world to iran right or israel if israel can even maintain 0.71

00:38:12.620 policing that region without you know american help uh can they even do that and if and if not

00:38:19.800 then we're going to have to look at israel and be like oh you know we're going to let iran you know

00:38:24.060 police this part of the neighborhood how does that make you feel right and israel's definitely not 0.99

00:38:29.420 going to be happy with that well and israel can't be the policeman of the middle east can they pearson

00:38:33.000 no and not with our help like everything they have we give to them as far as military well no but but

00:38:38.580 even if but i mean it's not like we can convert israel into our proxy fighter there because they

00:38:43.340 would unite the arab world against them right right and that's happened before yeah we don't want to 1.00

00:38:47.600 relive the crusades really well i mean not all of them turned out so great not all of them did the

00:38:54.480 first one was pretty good though i think you know sometimes you get judged by the sequels i think it

00:38:58.460 might be time for another crusade let's you know let's go back and retake the middle east 1.00

00:39:02.200 i i think that that christian again i think that you you really are one uh interesting

00:39:07.960 isolationist well let's do the crusade kind of like i'll give you an example when i was in i think

00:39:14.280 third grade i was walking around the playground there's this one bully he was a lot bigger than

00:39:20.140 he's a fifth grade and i just i'm the kind of guy just leave me alone you know i just want to play

00:39:23.620 my games leave me alone and for some reason he took a disliking to me and he kept picking on me day

00:39:27.260 after day and one day he he pushed it too far and i was walking away from him and he pushed me

00:39:33.780 and this is one of those things where you're not even thinking about what you do and i still can't

00:39:37.560 understand what i happened but i turned around and ducked and i uppercut him and knocked him on his 0.92

00:39:42.500 butt probably the coolest thing i've ever done it's been downhill since it's been downhill since then

00:39:48.200 and uh he left me alone since then but he also just like he suddenly became my buddy and wanted to

00:39:53.980 protect me from everybody and like oh he's he's so cool so this is they're pushing us they're

00:39:58.840 pushing us they're pushing us we have to respond at some point all these countries have been taking

00:40:02.680 advantage of us for so long we can't just say okay we're gonna stop playing we're gonna do our

00:40:07.040 own thing we have to push back or there's not gonna be anything left and at this point i don't know if

00:40:11.140 we've passed that point we might have passed the the critical edge where there is no coming back and

00:40:16.780 things are just going to keep unraveling until there's nothing left i don't know it's kind of a

00:40:21.200 pessimistic worldview but things are so bad right now i don't know how we get back from this

00:40:24.840 by the way i think pearson is more literate in statecraft than half the state department and the

00:40:30.120 cia combined that is honestly that's that i think i think there's some something to that though that we

00:40:36.440 need to it's not that we're isolationists in the sense that we just want to get our hands off of

00:40:42.480 everything but we do need to we do have a responsibility that if we're going to pull back

00:40:47.840 in any region that we need to put somebody there who's both strong but is also somebody that we can

00:40:54.540 trust or that we know has some sort of basis or honor like some sort of honor system where

00:41:00.780 we understand that hey look we yeah i we just beat you in a fight and so you understand that we can we 0.99

00:41:06.920 can kick your ass one day if we need to but for but for now you know we're going to leave you to police 0.99

00:41:12.260 this region we're going to expect you to do it well right and this has already gone to the mat 0.99

00:41:16.440 before you don't want to do it again right and so who's that partner in the middle east fish

00:41:21.040 i think that in the middle east i might i saudi's the one behind he's the big the uae just agreed to

00:41:28.340 a 1.4 trillion dollar weapon the problem with the problem with arab militaries in general i think that

00:41:35.180 they have a very bad habit of um basically knifing each other in the back amongst their own ranks and

00:41:41.300 like there's not there's a lack of trust amongst their own sort of middle management and and sort

00:41:46.700 of general management and so i think that the persians have i i i the iran has more civilizational

00:41:53.980 experience in this area so it's it's either iran or turkey well it's not a pretty picture if iran's

00:42:00.220 empowered in the middle east i think that the whole thrust of the trump doctrine in the middle east is

00:42:04.340 going to be to neuter iran they don't have a lot of friends yeah well they they don't but again

00:42:09.900 they have the their friends fight well they do but they have you too they have the institutional

00:42:15.760 knowledge iran's friends fight our friends uh want to know when their next like lend lease program

00:42:23.780 from the american taxpayer is going to show up right let's let's uh get on our side of the atlantic in

00:42:29.380 latin america um i well actually before we do latin america let's run up to europe real quick

00:42:35.460 in europe we've seen that uh dependency state develop i think trump and vance are delivering

00:42:42.740 a message loud and clear that you you're not going to be a protectorate of our country anymore

00:42:48.100 vance makes the argument on these exposed signal chains that actually these shipping lanes that are

00:42:54.860 being attacked by the houthis ought to be defended by europe and it's a chance for europe to step up 0.99

00:43:01.460 uh what's your read on our force posture as it relates to europe and uh how they deal with the

00:43:08.400 the security dynamics at play oh they're all socialists and i don't think we should be helping

00:43:12.780 them europe you just go to zero yeah i mean they all clearly want to stab us in the back and they 1.00

00:43:18.840 take every opportunity to do so they don't think it's our best friend in europe it's got to be what

00:43:23.660 the brits but i mean they participated in spying on trump hungry hungry that's a good one i mean

00:43:29.600 poland i don't know these eastern countries because none of the western countries are

00:43:34.160 are friendly with us if we had marine le pen in we'd be doing great she might not even be allowed

00:43:38.880 to run uh uh who's the prime minister of italy that georgia malone yeah i mean she's pretty cool 1.00

00:43:44.320 yeah what do you think bish so i think i think that in europe what right now they have a lot of

00:43:50.280 leadership in place that is anti-american that have come up during a time when america just

00:43:58.180 essentially funded their entire welfare sort of system that they got going on there and they are

00:44:04.220 in a stasis where they can only rely on that or they only know a politics where that's the

00:44:10.040 presupposition undergirding the rest of their understanding of the relationship with america

00:44:15.600 right as long as america provides us the endless marshall plan resources that they've been providing us

00:44:22.280 for almost a century uh then we're okay with america and the moment they move off of that

00:44:28.180 is the moment we're against america i don't think that europeans and europeans in general feel that

00:44:35.000 sentiment towards america i think that they love america i think there's a lot of people in europe who

00:44:39.780 love america but it's the wrong leadership that's in place i think that that's why you see a lot of this

00:44:46.280 tamping down of populist leaders rising up in these countries because the those leaders clearly

00:44:52.900 understand that they want to make their nations stronger and want to do it without having to need

00:45:00.380 america to hold their hand through everything and they want to be on an equal footing with america or

00:45:06.840 something close to it where it's a partnership not a protectorate and so i think oh i think you're

00:45:12.460 giving them way too much credit i'm with pearson i'm with pearson that they would like to be they

00:45:17.340 would like us to pay for their protection like they're owed it and then they would like to look

00:45:21.600 down their nose at a lot of the rest of us for not having cradle to grave welfare system well then we

00:45:28.440 just cut it off right and so that but that's the thing that's the thing we're not willing to do like

00:45:32.860 are we america or not are we gonna actually when there's these people who are clearly holding you know

00:45:38.700 holding their nose up at us because we don't have cradle to grave health care and it's like well

00:45:42.740 let's see you pay pay for the health care when we're not providing you security guarantees i think

00:45:47.140 that's exactly what's happening and i think that what what you see i don't know how this war is going

00:45:50.880 to resolve but i think it is going to resolve and i do think it's nice that we're talking about how

00:45:55.540 not if in the war between ukraine and russia and my sense is that anytime europe has to put up or

00:46:02.700 shut up they they will relent and like you say i wish that wasn't the case but it is by the way 0.95

00:46:08.720 finland 75 taxes sounds lovely yeah so that's a cradle to grave for you yeah no kidding all right 0.86

00:46:16.740 all right let's come over here to our side of the atlantic and here's my argument in latin america

00:46:20.740 there are three models you either become a vassal state of china you become a narco state akin to 0.51

00:46:29.660 venezuela and mexico or you follow the nationalistic model set by my friend naib bukele

00:46:36.620 where you impose strong security where you defeat the criminal element and you try to invigorate

00:46:44.660 the cultural excellence that dates back to simone bolivar think it's a think it's three tracks you can

00:46:51.220 run on vish well uh why isn't argentina and the javier malay track oh the the the uh the rug pull

00:46:58.440 meme coin track well i mean i don't know i'm i'm not going to comment on the the rug pull meme coin

00:47:05.400 part but i think there's something to be said about the sort of socialist structures that they have

00:47:11.840 in those countries and how that stifled growth and innovation in a lot of south america and and

00:47:19.240 particularly argentina and that that reaction is is how you get a javier malay and if that can be

00:47:26.480 replicated where there's a more a liberty focused uh approach to governing or politics from you know

00:47:35.080 the the right-leaning perspective there i think that that can offer a viable uh sort of you know

00:47:41.140 alternative yeah i would put malay and bolsonaro kind of on the bukele track of nationalistic uh not

00:47:50.600 surrendering to to the globalist what do you think about latin america pearson i mean it's the same

00:47:55.000 situation as in africa i think we need a similar uh liberty road initiative where we go down there

00:48:00.560 and we we help turn these into capitalistic right-leaning societies instead of letting the

00:48:06.440 communists run amok down there and we can do that with sanctions we can do that with economic

00:48:11.240 enforcement we can do that with all kinds of things but i think it needs to happen and we just need to

00:48:16.340 stop being such wusses with all these different countries letting them get away with these marxist 1.00

00:48:21.960 communist leaders and i don't think we should you know pull grenada style situations and go in and

00:48:28.240 like overthrow but i think we can put the right amount of pressure on these countries and give

00:48:34.940 them an alternative an attractive alternative to china and that could start turning things around 0.98

00:48:39.920 what do you think is our best sales pitch in that regard well obviously everybody wants everybody

00:48:46.960 wants the dollar everybody wants money that's one of the big and these are these are increasingly

00:48:51.720 dollarized economies it's one place in the world where you know the dollar is still very much in

00:48:56.520 everybody wants the american dream literally everybody i think the biggest problem we have

00:49:01.440 right now is that there is a a new world order type institution somewhere out there that is pulling

00:49:10.540 strings to try and get more power the george soros type people the klaus schwab type people

00:49:15.920 and america is the primary obstacle in that and so for decades since the 50s maybe even since world

00:49:22.540 war ii people in these institutions have been trying to undermine america and our excellence and everyone

00:49:29.240 around the world wants to be america everybody wants that everybody wants to live the american dream

00:49:34.160 and have the big house and you know be arnold schwarzenegger that's just everybody wants that come on

00:49:39.260 and so we have these these liberal academics this is it's a whole cancer that's just encroached in

00:49:45.520 our society that has undermined the american exceptionalism and the ideal the image that we

00:49:51.540 had since like the 80s that everybody wanted and we've got to fix our cultural cancer our cultural rot

00:49:57.900 and all these countries want to be like us there's a great uh rammstein song which i take it the opposite

00:50:03.820 direction he means as a criticism but uh we all live in america and that's the name of the song and

00:50:09.920 it goes around the world showing all these people drinking coca-cola and uh wonder bra and all this

00:50:15.420 other stuff but it's true everybody wants that and we need to leverage that in these countries and make

00:50:20.740 america great again on the world stage it's it's one of our best assets and we're not using we've let it

00:50:26.080 rot yeah by the way i would if i if i would say that we have way more uh cultural power or or bet we

00:50:35.280 would be better at statecraft if our if our thing was like exporting wrangler jeans seriously you know

00:50:41.960 then nobody wants to be china right nobody wants that anywhere in the world right we would clamoring 1.00

00:50:48.180 to be chinese we would be doing way better statecraft if that was the case if it was like marvel movies

00:50:53.200 are a better export than like us exporting wokeness or like dei or any of this stuff we we would do

00:51:00.440 better on that front if that was the case we were making like hey we get you like all this nice stuff

00:51:05.980 that you look towards and and you know america rules global culture there everyone when he when

00:51:13.000 when pearson says everyone wants to be american that's what he's talking about they want to wear the

00:51:17.400 jeans they want to listen to the music they want to uh you know go to the mcdonald's like you know a

00:51:22.620 a high-end date in india is taking your girl to kfc in china you know in china frankly in the american

00:51:29.080 south as well well you know what those are our people all right and that's that's the kind of um

00:51:35.440 that's the kind of statecraft or or understanding of our power with our culture that should be driving

00:51:42.020 our our global statecraft well i think that is indeed the common theme of the episode and before

00:51:47.720 we get out of here we just have to get to north america and where you are on greenland uh jd vance

00:51:56.080 and usha vance are glamming up the dog running competition uh pearson how far should the trump

00:52:04.560 administration go in their greenland emissions i think we should try and take it all the way

00:52:08.940 honestly there's the famous saying that if you're not growing you're dying and i think it's a famous

00:52:15.020 isolationist saying yes exactly i think we need a teddy roosevelt a policy here i don't agree with a

00:52:20.900 lot of what he did but i think his american exceptionalism was great for growing our country

00:52:26.100 and if we could if we could take greenland i mean that's great for morale that you're proud to be

00:52:31.860 american all right all right how many american troops should die in our assault on greenland

00:52:36.400 i don't think anyone i don't think we'll lose any uh troops yeah it's not doing that no but i do

00:52:41.960 believe that we need new homesteads that's what i think that our few that's what we're seriously

00:52:46.660 lacking right now is that you know there's been generations we can do that in the american west

00:52:51.240 i'm well you know what but why don't we right and when when is when is blm gonna gonna gonna give

00:52:57.040 the bureau of land management bureau of land management right but that's about we don't do that

00:53:02.100 bad though right but base but that's what we we don't do that but bureau of land management is

00:53:09.120 not going to do that anytime soon so it's canada you better open up greenland you better open up

00:53:14.320 because that's where all the next fertile land is going to be if you track a hundred year term and

00:53:18.900 what's going to melt and and all that if we don't take it somewhere we're closing out the show with

00:53:23.000 strong predictions on climate change and where the future farmlands of humankind will be

00:53:27.480 make sure you give us a five-star rating subscribe turn the notifications on by hitting that little

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00:53:39.400 my good buddy dan ball is here with another one of our outstanding one american news anchors

00:53:44.140 riley lewis we hope you tune into that as well and you can catch the matt gates show every weeknight

00:53:49.340 nine o'clock eastern six pacific on one american news make sure you download our app at oann.com

00:53:55.340 and when you do that you'll be able to see the sharp report where pearson is able to bring his

00:54:00.040 terrific investigative reporting to all of you with outstanding analysis and opinion and vish where

00:54:05.940 can folks find you on the internet you can find me on x at vish burrah and on truth social at vish

00:54:11.380 thanks everybody for joining us for another episode of anchor i'm so excited when we get our meriwether

00:54:17.440 farm shipments and you get a beautiful piece of ribeye look look at that marbling now i take it out of

00:54:22.820 the package let it get down to room temperature all i've got on here is a little salt a little pepper

00:54:27.940 and then a little avocado oil and then i've had my pan preheating with a little oil

00:54:32.520 head to meriwetherfarms.com and enter promo code matt g for 15 off your first order

00:54:44.900 so

00:54:52.920 you

00:54:54.600 you

00:54:56.020 you

00:54:56.220 you

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz - March 27, 2025

The Anchormen Show with Matt Gaetz ｜ Episode 9

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